Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: eddiemunster on May 21, 2019, 08:52:30 AM
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Regardless of who goes up to the Premiership (Norwich, Sheffield United, and Villa or Derby), what payouts would any of the aforementioned clubs get (parachute payments), if they did a Fulham or Cardiff and came straight back down?
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The number banded about is close on £200m which is a worse case scenario of finishing 20th next season.
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You’d think this figure would be more easily obtainable since there are so many case studies with transparent accounts.
I guess it’s distorted by the fact that promoted teams either stay up (in which case the compounded benefits are much harder to calculate) or piss money away on expensive players who soak up the extra fund. I can’t think of an example of a team that deliberately keeps the purse strings tight, banks the extra money and goes straight down, which would be a very depressing victory for finance over football.
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Burnley?
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You’d think this figure would be more easily obtainable since there are so many case studies with transparent accounts.
I guess it’s distorted by the fact that promoted teams either stay up (in which case the compounded benefits are much harder to calculate) or piss money away on expensive players who soak up the extra fund. I can’t think of an example of a team that deliberately keeps the purse strings tight, banks the extra money and goes straight down, which would be a very depressing victory for finance over football.
Burnley. Went up, stayed for a season, didn’t spend much, went down, invested in their club infrastructure, youth devpt and a strict wages policy, did the same with their parachute payments, got promoted again, straight back down again, stayed with the same formula, didn’t spunk the money, came straight back up and have stayed up since. Have also been reasonably stable with managerial appointments.
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Apart from Burnley , obviously 😬
Yeah, that’s a good example of successful use of PL revenue.
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From Sky:
According to Deloitte, the winners will benefit from future additional revenue of approximately £170m across the next three seasons.
This is a combination of:
Extra revenue they will earn from playing in the Premier League in 2019/20 - at least an extra £95m, mostly from central distributions
Parachute payments in 2020/21 and 2021/22 should they be relegated after one season - totalling an estimated £75m across two seasons
If the play-off final winners can stay in the Premier League for a year, that £170 actually becomes a minimum of £300m, consisting of £200m from two years in the top flight, plus around £100m from three years of parachute payments.
Clubs who stay in the Premier League for more than one year receive an extra year of parachute payments.
Source: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/11720687/championship-play-off-final-worth-170m-to-aston-villa-or-derby
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Cheers Danno.
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From Sky:
According to Deloitte, the winners will benefit from future additional revenue of approximately £170m across the next three seasons.
This is a combination of:
Extra revenue they will earn from playing in the Premier League in 2019/20 - at least an extra £95m, mostly from central distributions
Parachute payments in 2020/21 and 2021/22 should they be relegated after one season - totalling an estimated £75m across two seasons
If the play-off final winners can stay in the Premier League for a year, that £170 actually becomes a minimum of £300m, consisting of £200m from two years in the top flight, plus around £100m from three years of parachute payments.
Clubs who stay in the Premier League for more than one year receive an extra year of parachute payments.
Source: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/11720687/championship-play-off-final-worth-170m-to-aston-villa-or-derby
No wonder no chairmen baulked at giving Scudamore a hefty payout
And to think a founder member such as Bolton is at the point of extinction makes me puke
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The money in the PL is quite ridiculous, but a lot of it probably goes on higher player wages. I think a key strategy should be to try to include relegation clauses in any player contracts so you are not left with a ridiculous wage bill if the worst happens.
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Pretty sure that most clubs do as standard. Sure I read a while ago that even Arsenal have relegation clauses.
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They probably do include relegation clauses, but how does that sit within the contract? Jimmy Hill's fight against the constraints to which players could be subjected included winning the right to a free transfer if a club offered you reduced terms. It's all well and good including such clauses, but I can't see how if you enforced them, all your best players wouldn't just bugger off to whoever wanted them and was prepared to pay their wages, albeit probably after banging in a transfer request, and you'd just be left with mostly still overpaid shite. As we were.
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Well we enforced them when we went down, as do other clubs. Same as some players have release clauses if their club is relegated, like Gueye did.
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Burnley is an extremely well run club financially.
In the 1990s when the Lottery was announced their board had the foresight to realise that the money available to clubs for ground development from the Football Pools Fund would reduce as the pools declined.
At the time Turf Moor was outdated and in need of a major rebuild.
So they submitted a number of applications and used the money obtained to build stands on 2 sides of Turf Moor.
They've maintained this prudent policy ever since.
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Well we enforced them when we went down, as do other clubs. Same as some players have release clauses if their club is relegated, like Gueye did.
And which world-beaters were still physically at Villa by the end of the January after we went down, spearheading our instantaneous return?
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Well we enforced them when we went down, as do other clubs. Same as some players have release clauses if their club is relegated, like Gueye did.
And which world-beaters were still physically at Villa by the end of the January after we went down, spearheading our instantaneous return?
I have no idea what that means.
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My point was that if a player is any good, if you try to force them to stay for less money, they'll bugger off regardless. By the time we lost to Forest in our first game of February 2017, none of the "decent" players who'd trudged off the pitch the previous May, Veretout, Amavi, Gueye, Ayew, that ilk, were anywhere to be seen. All gone.
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I doubt any of them would have stayed regardless, Veretout and Gueye had zero interest in playing in division 2. What it did mean is that we weren't financially fucked even quicker. And we weren't forcing any of them to stay, it's the contract they chose to sign. Same as most, if not all, players in the PL have relegation clauses.
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Sorry, but I think most of you missed my point.
I asked about cash payouts for being promoted, then being relegated the following season.
Not about players contractual agreements.
Danno gave me the answer.
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What? You expect a thread on H&V to remain on topic?!?!
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Sorry, but I think most of you missed my point.
I asked about cash payouts for being promoted, then being relegated the following season.
Not about players contractual agreements.
Danno gave me the answer.
And another conversation started, so no one missed your point as it had already been answered.
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I believe Derby also didn't blow away the money during the season they achieved the lowest points total, keeping it to update the club infrastructure etc.
On the point of contracts haven't Man Utd players got a 25% reduction written into their contracts for next season for failing to qualify for Champions League? I presume if this, and relegation clauses, are clearly stated in the contract when it is signed then the player has to grin and bear it.
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Sorry, but I think most of you missed my point.
I asked about cash payouts for being promoted, then being relegated the following season.
Not about players contractual agreements.
Danno gave me the answer.
I think the discussion evolved from your original point to a discussion on what does it matter how much money you get if you lose 90% of it in PL level wages anyway, and ways to possibly avoid that.
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Presumably, if clubs can protect themselves with relegation clauses then players (and their agents) can protect themselves by demanding reductions in transfer values after relegation?
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What, like a release clause?
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Presumably, if clubs can protect themselves with relegation clauses then players (and their agents) can protect themselves by demanding reductions in transfer values after relegation?
They do, as both release clauses and as promotion bonuses.
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Wasn't that exactly what happened with Gana Gueye? Got relegated, incurred an automatic wage cut, but Everton were able to buy him for less than we paid due to a relegation release clause. Unless I've misremembered it.
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Maybe slightly of topic, but big talk about Lerner receiving a pay out if we get promoted - think I heard about it when Xia arrived
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Maybe slightly of topic, but big talk about Lerner receiving a pay out if we get promoted - think I heard about it when Xia arrived
Does the change of ownership not nullify that deal? I hope so. Lerner deserves nothing.
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Wasn't that exactly what happened with Gana Gueye? Got relegated, incurred an automatic wage cut, but Everton were able to buy him for less than we paid due to a relegation release clause. Unless I've misremembered it.
No, you remembered it perfectly from the previous page :P
Well we enforced them when we went down, as do other clubs. Same as some players have release clauses if their club is relegated, like Gueye did.
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Maybe slightly of topic, but big talk about Lerner receiving a pay out if we get promoted - think I heard about it when Xia arrived
Does the change of ownership not nullify that deal? I hope so. Lerner deserves nothing.
From what I've seen then no, Sawiris and Edens may have to foot most of it (presumably they knew when they bought the club off Xia, unless it's another nasty surprise he left behind).
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My guess is that the obligation to pay randy was factored into the purchase price, otherwise I cannot fathom how one “Zaha” is being valued at more than an entire club, let alone Aston Villa.
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Pretty sure that most clubs do as standard. Sure I read a while ago that even Arsenal have relegation clauses.
Arsenal getting relegated ? What a beautiful thought.
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Maybe slightly of topic, but big talk about Lerner receiving a pay out if we get promoted - think I heard about it when Xia arrived
Does the change of ownership not nullify that deal? I hope so. Lerner deserves nothing.
From what I've seen then no, Sawiris and Edens may have to foot most of it (presumably they knew when they bought the club off Xia, unless it's another nasty surprise he left behind).
There may be some financial chicanery around this. The club's name has changed at Companies House, and it will depend if it was/is Recon who would owe that money. If it is, then Doctor Tony might end up with a bill he can't afford, or struggles to pay.
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May as well put this here. Article in The Guardian showing the finances of the top flight clubs for the 2017/18 season. Brighton owe their owner £223m. Chelsea just the £1.25bn to Abramovich.
Premier League finances (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city)
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May as well put this here. Article in The Guardian showing the finances of the top flight clubs for the 2017/18 season. Brighton owe their owner £223m. Chelsea just the £1.25bn to Abramovich.
Premier League finances (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city)
I'd rather buy the DUP. Similar politics to Chelsea, and just as ugly, but at least I'd have a couple of hundred million left over to weigh me down when I jumped off a very high bridge.
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May as well put this here. Article in The Guardian showing the finances of the top flight clubs for the 2017/18 season. Brighton owe their owner £223m. Chelsea just the £1.25bn to Abramovich.
Premier League finances (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city)
That's from 2017/18 so you have to imagine Spurs are in for a lot more post stadium. Didn't it cost north of 1bn?
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We really need to get promotion on Monday the money on offer in the Premier League is obscene and that's what we need an obscene amount of money that goes with being in there.
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We really need to get promotion on Monday the money on offer in the Premier League is obscene and that's what we need an obscene amount of money that goes with being in there.
That added to the obscene wealth of our owners feels like a good match.
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Maybe slightly of topic, but big talk about Lerner receiving a pay out if we get promoted - think I heard about it when Xia arrived
Does the change of ownership not nullify that deal? I hope so. Lerner deserves nothing.
From what I've seen then no, Sawiris and Edens may have to foot most of it (presumably they knew when they bought the club off Xia, unless it's another nasty surprise he left behind).
There may be some financial chicanery around this. The club's name has changed at Companies House, and it will depend if it was/is Recon who would owe that money. If it is, then Doctor Tony might end up with a bill he can't afford, or struggles to pay.
Thankfully you can't get rid of a company's liabilities by changing it's name or Randy might still own us!!
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Thankfully you can't get rid of a company's liabilities by changing it's name or Randy might still own us!!
How ace would that be!
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We really need to get promotion on Monday the money on offer in the Premier League is obscene and that's what we need an obscene amount of money that goes with being in there.
That added to the obscene wealth of our owners feels like a good match.
Luvvly football.
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Sure I read at one stage that a deal in place where Lerner would get a bigger percentage only if we went up within two years. So maybe last year was all part of a plan.
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Thankfully you can't get rid of a company's liabilities by changing it's name or Randy might still own us!!
How ace would that be!
You could change your name to something like ‘Sod The Creditors We’re Off The Hook Limited.’
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If Jack has a release clause we should ensure there is a bidding war.