Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SaddVillan on April 11, 2019, 01:26:09 PM
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If our play-off spot and opponents are confirmed with say 2 games to go. Any thoughts on bringing them back from loan and givibg them a run out to gauge how good they are. Assuming that we can bring them back early.
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Sheff U would like that idea
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For me I think it's best to leave them and then give them a full pre-season with the first team squad to settle in fully.
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Depends what League we’re in next season, if Premier League then another loan but at Championship level may be the answer but if still Championship then try and assimilate into the squad. Same with Hepburn-Murphy.
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If they’re good enough, bring them on. That’s all that matters.
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No way you can recall before the end of the season, tuanzebe, tammy going back for an end of season chumps league press?Alll the loanees should follow us in a league below, hopefully championship next year
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Glad to see that the club have triggered the contract extension on O'Hare. Just hope they do the same for Clark.
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And I think we all know that, if they are any good, Smith will give them a chance. Good move.
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Both done very well on loan from all reports.
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I'll be amazed if we don't trigger an extension for Clark as well, by all accounts he's been excellent at Port Vale and is a genuine candidate for their player of the season. On top of that Clark is one of those rare players who looks at home in about 5-6 positions, even if we only see him as a squad player having that sort of versatility on the bench is a massive benefit.
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I didn't know we had the option. Hopefully get both signed up long-term. Andre Green, too.
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Green is contracted until next year. From what I can make out a 1 year extension option is part of almost every youth/academy contract we have.
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Green contract expires June, according to this...
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andre-green/profil/spieler/309841
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Green contract expires June, according to this...
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andre-green/profil/spieler/309841
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/03/16/andre-green-signs-new-contract
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Ta. Can't believe Transfermarkt got it wrong. Those Germans, eh? First the Second World War, now this.
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I'll be amazed if we don't trigger an extension for Clark as well, by all accounts he's been excellent at Port Vale and is a genuine candidate for their player of the season. On top of that Clark is one of those rare players who looks at home in about 5-6 positions, even if we only see him as a squad player having that sort of versatility on the bench is a massive benefit.
Was on a course with a Port Vale fan the other week and asked him about Clark. Said he looks a good player who can play on the right and left, and said he could easily see him playing Championship level.
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Green contract expires June, according to this...
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andre-green/profil/spieler/309841
Yep, I pointed that out last time this conversation came up, that's why I remember it.
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I'm not gonna check who made that faux pas, but I bet it was me.
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Can you imagine if Bournemouth thought like this and recalled Mings or Man U with Tuanzebe. Leave them be for the season.
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Can you imagine if Bournemouth thought like this and recalled Mings or Man U with Tuanzebe. Leave them be for the season.
Not sure many are suggesting they should be recalled now Dave, just that hopefully they will be a part of the squad going forward.
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There is a difference as well, we've paid a huge fee and wages in full for the loanees we have so contractually they can't be recalled, that's probably not the case with our youngsters (but as I said before I think it would be the wrong thing to do regardless).
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Can you imagine if Bournemouth thought like this and recalled Mings or Man U with Tuanzebe. Leave them be for the season.
Not sure many are suggesting they should be recalled now Dave, just that hopefully they will be a part of the squad going forward.
The very first post on this thread suggested bringing them back early.
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So not many then ;)
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I was talking today to someone involved at Carlisle. He said there were many scouts looking at Callum yesterday. He sees him as a top league one player but not good enough for Championship.
It sounds like Callum may be leaving this summer.
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If we get promoted a lot of these lads (including the Russian, Jake Doyle etc.) will see their slim chances of involvement at Villa practically evaporate. Even Green, El Ghazi, Davis etc. would be doing well to be bit-part players at PL level.
Hopefully we can get a lot of the promising players loans to clubs higher-up the chain, ie top of League One and solid Championship clubs.
I'm a big fan of RHM but can see why in a struggling League Two side his goal return will not be too impressive but I don't think he should be written off on that basis. He should be learning at a team with the best platform possible for him to thrive, not just a a club who are happy to take him because the manager (Calderwood) used to work and coach RHM at Villa.
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So, Mitch Clark has been released, he's posted a thank you on instagram.
I think that's a shame, he looks like he could be a good player but probably suffers a bit from being a bit of a utility player.
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Massive shame. Seems odd. Do we really have a wealth of other youth players coming through?
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I always liked the look of Clark. Have a feeling that could come back to haunt us. Still, good luck to him.
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Harvey knibbs also sent farewell message today too
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Just seen this on Instagram, and was wondering if it's true;
theavfcfaithful
I would like to address my sincere condolences to the following players, Harry McKirdy, Jordan Cox, Kelsey Mooney, Harvey Knibbs, Mitch Clark, Jordan Lyden, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alex Prosser
I've been waiting to post this for a while, but waited in respect to the players themselves, it finally got confirmed today that their journeys at Aston Villa have come to an end 💜
I wish you lads all the best, great crop of youngsters who are bound to come back and haunt us one day at VP, like we've seen in the past and I'm sure a few of these will be mistakes.. Good luck on your careers and onwards and upwards 🦁
#AVFC #UTV
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Every club will have players who they should have kept. Great motivation for a released player to ram it back down the club's throat. Nature of sport though.
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I am the resident bore off the Academy and reserve thread. I go and watch the Youth Team most home games and watch the U23s quite often.
I have been a big supporter of Mitch and thought that He and Callum were the pick of a very good Youth Team a couple of years ago. i thought that they were better than Jake Doyle Hayes, RHM and Andre Green at the time and I still probably do, although all are good players.
It's a cut throat business and although Mitch has at times done very well at Port Vale He has not proved that He is better than that level. Our excellent Young players when loaned out like Jack Grealish, Gary Cahill and Barry Bannan got consistently rave reviews at lower league level.
Personally I would have given him one more year but I think He is destined to be a lower league player and there is nothing wrong with that, in fact 99% of us would kill to have a career as a Professional Footballer.
I really hope Mitch does come back to haunt us as He gave me great entertainment in the youth and reserves and was one of those players who played with a smile on his face.
He liked a chat with the spectators occasionally.
Good luck Mitchell
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I think for some players their time doesn't come until much later, possibly after the muck and bullets of lower league. Countless youngsters drift away after this first huge disappointment but a fair few work their way back up. Jamie Vardy, Charlie Austin, Rickie Lambert...perhaps not great examples of players whose class shone through but good examples that the journey's not over.
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I think Mitch has got the character to keep going and I know He won't be short of offers to sign a 3 year deal as a Pro in League 1 or League 2. On a free He might well get a championship club give him a deal.
The other players we released I can't say I am surprised about, Easah Sulliman I expect to be released soon as well.
It is an ongoing situation. If we keep Mitch at the club how is Mungo Bridge and Dominic Revan going to progress and in a year or two, we will have to shift them on if they are not threatening the first team in favour of the latest youth players etc.
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Amazed by Clark leaving tbh. Had a good loan spell, played o.k in some league cup appearences and pretty versatile which is always handy for a 46 game league season.
I was looking forward to him being integrated into the first team sport next season. It's not like we've got a huge amount of prospects in both full back areas....AEM, Hutton and Taylor I doubt any will be with us in 18 months time. Will have to see how the new French guy settles aswell.
Can only think he wanted to push for regular games next season and DS didn't think he was even championship standard. Is said lots when we replace young players and actually very few come back to haunt us but think we might've missed a trick with Clark, can see him playing international football in near future.
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Some? He only played once for us. He seemed decent from the few times I saw him in games shown on youtube but he hasn't even had an U21 cap for Wales so not sure he's going to get a full cap in the next year or so.
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“He needs to be challenged and I challenge him on a daily basis,” says Clark’s agent Lee Marsh.
“He's been at Villa since he was six and is grateful for the opportunity. I couldn't believe he hadn't got a squad number after playing pre-season games.
“I took him to Port Vale and he's done very well in an ugly standard of football. I'm adamant that I'm going to try and get him the career I think he deserves.”
Marsh added: “Obviously it's a shock to his system that he's unattached but it's for a reason.
“Dean (Smith) didn't see him playing for a club in the top six of the Championship at this time and I respect his views.
“I believe that I can take him on to bigger and better things than what he's doing at Port Vale.
“At this moment in time I've got a big interest from a Premier League club and two German clubs. He won't be signing for them if it's under-23 based, I can tell you that.
“There's Championship clubs and that would be appealing as well because it's a stepping stone.
“I understand why Dean has let him go but I'm sure there'll be staff at Villa who won't be too pleased about it. You've got to move on in life sometimes and this is his opportunity.”
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Some? He only played once for us. He seemed decent from the few times I saw him in games shown on youtube but he hasn't even had an U21 cap for Wales so not sure he's going to get a full cap in the next year or so.
Ah thought he played v Boro and Colchester aswell, was unused sub in both.
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Whenever a young player is let go I often think a manager is trying to balance what is best for the club with what is best for the player.
Perhaps at this stage of his career he really needs to be playing first team football, and we simply can't guarantee him that.
He might have been useful as a squad player, alternately keeping him might have hindered his development in the longer term.
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If you're 20 or so and playing two leagues down, you really need to be ripping up trees
I think ohare has and I'd be surprised if we let him go
Clark has done OK I think but not better
I think with rhm and jdh they've been injured so it's hard to tell
But I like our new approach with the under 23s. We're playing much younger players who I imagine will play there for a year or two and then be loaned out or integrated
I can't say I've watched loads of under 23 games but from the half dozen or so I saw in the last year, the standard and level of competitiveness is just nowhere near high enough to really tell how good players are
We had a few who may be flat track bullies
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Just seen this on Instagram, and was wondering if it's true;
theavfcfaithful
I would like to address my sincere condolences to the following players, Harry McKirdy, Jordan Cox, Kelsey Mooney, Harvey Knibbs, Mitch Clark, Jordan Lyden, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alex Prosser
I've been waiting to post this for a while, but waited in respect to the players themselves, it finally got confirmed today that their journeys at Aston Villa have come to an end 💜
I wish you lads all the best, great crop of youngsters who are bound to come back and haunt us one day at VP, like we've seen in the past and I'm sure a few of these will be mistakes.. Good luck on your careers and onwards and upwards 🦁
#AVFC #UTV
I really think McKirdy will go on to have a great career. He's got a bit of Grealish about him.
Good luck to all the lads.
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Speaking of moved-on yoof, interesting article on the Beeb about our former highly-coveted midfielder Dan Crowley, who after being lured away from us by Arsenal, has since landed in the Netherlands and will play against Ajax in the Dutch cup final tomorrow.
I wonder if he had stayed with us, would Grealish's progress have been hampered - I know Jack is older but Crowley was expecting first team football quite early on.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48111164
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Just seen this on Instagram, and was wondering if it's true;
theavfcfaithful
I would like to address my sincere condolences to the following players, Harry McKirdy, Jordan Cox, Kelsey Mooney, Harvey Knibbs, Mitch Clark, Jordan Lyden, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alex Prosser
I've been waiting to post this for a while, but waited in respect to the players themselves, it finally got confirmed today that their journeys at Aston Villa have come to an end 💜
I wish you lads all the best, great crop of youngsters who are bound to come back and haunt us one day at VP, like we've seen in the past and I'm sure a few of these will be mistakes.. Good luck on your careers and onwards and upwards 🦁
#AVFC #UTV
I really think McKirdy will go on to have a great career. He's got a bit of Grealish about him.
Good luck to all the lads.
I like what I've seen of Jordan Cox and McKirdy so i'm surprised by those two being let go.
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Just seen this on Instagram, and was wondering if it's true;
theavfcfaithful
I would like to address my sincere condolences to the following players, Harry McKirdy, Jordan Cox, Kelsey Mooney, Harvey Knibbs, Mitch Clark, Jordan Lyden, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alex Prosser
I've been waiting to post this for a while, but waited in respect to the players themselves, it finally got confirmed today that their journeys at Aston Villa have come to an end 💜
I wish you lads all the best, great crop of youngsters who are bound to come back and haunt us one day at VP, like we've seen in the past and I'm sure a few of these will be mistakes.. Good luck on your careers and onwards and upwards 🦁
#AVFC #UTV
I really think McKirdy will go on to have a great career. He's got a bit of Grealish about him.
Good luck to all the lads.
I like what I've seen of Jordan Cox and McKirdy so i'm surprised by those two being let go.
That's a good shout about Jordan Cox as well, Clampy. Looked a decent goalscorer.
I'm curious as to why they've all been released? Smith doesn't fancy them or something else? Maybe we'll never know.
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Maybe we're seeing the beginnings of a comprehensive overhaul of how we do things below senior level. This, Sean Kimberley's departure, the letting go of the scouts. I've said before how having a successful U23 side seemed to have become an end in itself, and there was that ridiculous business of the disconnect between "The Villa Engine" and the first team squad.
I can't comment on their talent. Maybe some of them could do a job where we are, would they be able to take us where we want to go? Good luck to the lot of them, I hope they all succeed in getting to do what we'd all loved to have, making a living kicking a bag of wind around a field.
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In view of the fict that we are about to sign the entire Ajax squad it's only right that we should make room and let some players go ;)
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In view of the fict that we are about to sign the entire Ajax squad it's only right that we should make room and let some players go ;)
Typo, or brilliant new word you invented on the spot?
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“He needs to be challenged and I challenge him on a daily basis,” says Clark’s agent Lee Marsh.
“He's been at Villa since he was six and is grateful for the opportunity. I couldn't believe he hadn't got a squad number after playing pre-season games.
“I took him to Port Vale and he's done very well in an ugly standard of football. I'm adamant that I'm going to try and get him the career I think he deserves.”
Marsh added: “Obviously it's a shock to his system that he's unattached but it's for a reason.
“Dean (Smith) didn't see him playing for a club in the top six of the Championship at this time and I respect his views.
“I believe that I can take him on to bigger and better things than what he's doing at Port Vale.
“At this moment in time I've got a big interest from a Premier League club and two German clubs. He won't be signing for them if it's under-23 based, I can tell you that.
“There's Championship clubs and that would be appealing as well because it's a stepping stone.
“I understand why Dean has let him go but I'm sure there'll be staff at Villa who won't be too pleased about it. You've got to move on in life sometimes and this is his opportunity.”
His agent doesn't come across as a complete bellend there at all does he?
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In view of the fict that we are about to sign the entire Ajax squad it's only right that we should make room and let some players go ;)
Typo, or brilliant new word you invented on the spot?
Well it's not a typo and it is deliberate. Initially I wrote fact but obviously it's not a fact it's fiction and faction is a made up word so on that basis I think we can use fict when it's not fact. If that makes sense? :)
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In view of the fict that we are about to sign the entire Ajax squad it's only right that we should make room and let some players go ;)
Typo, or brilliant new word you invented on the spot?
Well it's not a typo and it is deliberate. Initially I wrote fact but obviously it's not a fact it's fiction and faction is a made up word so on that basis I think we can use fict when it's not fact. If that makes sense? :)
I look forward to Sarah Sanders and her boss using it some time soon, I've no doubt.
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I'm guess they've been released as most if not all are 20-22 and not looking like they can be first team players for us at the moment. As Larry says, keeping them will only hinder the next group of youngsters.
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Smith was putting that young centre back on the bench for a few games around the turn of the year and there's another U18 centre back that was being linked with Milan before he signed a new contract.
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I'm guess they've been released as most if not all are 20-22 and not looking like they can be first team players for us at the moment. As Larry says, keeping them will only hinder the next group of youngsters.
If there was a chance of getting a fee, we may as well have kept them and just kept loaning them out, like Chelsea do.
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Chelsea release 20-22 year olds every season. If we go up this season I doubt any of the ones we've released would have made the league squad once next season, so seems pointless keeping them in the hope someone may spend 50-100k on them on one day.
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We’ve been guilty of holding onto players too long before. If it’s going to stifle their career, it’s not fair on them and it may block someone else’s path.
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Carlisle see Callum as their best player of the latter part of the season and would like to have him back next season but believe he will be on loan to a championship club .
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Carlisle see Callum as their best player of the latter part of the season and would like to have him back next season but believe he will be on loan to a championship club .
That would be the next logical step for him. Full season loan at a decent Championship team who play good football, then back to us to be gradually introduced in the Prem the season after.
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Brentford?
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West Brom?
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West Brom?
lol
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West Brom?
lol
You obviously missed the bit about playing good football!!
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Great month for Callum....from Carlisle local press...
Midfielder Callum O'Hare has been voted the PFA Bristol Street Motors League Two player of the month award.
The 21-year-old, who spent the second-half of the 2018/19 season on loan with Carlisle United from Aston Villa, has impressed during his stay with the Cumbrian outfit.
He beat Stevenage’s QPR loanee Ilias Chair, as well as Boro’s Kurtis Guthrie and 21-year-old Terence Vancooten, Forest Green’s Christian Doidge, and Newport defender Mickey Demetriou to the April gong.
"[I'm] really happy to have won April’s POTM award," he said on Twitter. "Thank you to everyone who voted."
Team-mate Anthony Gerrard added: "Brilliant to see, well done lad."
O'Hare was on the scoresheet as 10-man United beat Bury 3-2 at Brunton Park on April 6. He then also netted in Carlisle's 4-2 home win over Crawley, before last Saturday's season-ending goalless draw at Yeovil.
Aaron Pressley, the son of United manager Steven, is on the youth-team books at Villa.
Aston Villa host West Brom in the first leg of their Championship play-off semi-final tomorrow (12.15pm kick-off).
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As a Carlisle season ticket holder, hes been class, works so hard its unreal, And hes not shy in telling senior pro's to get their fingers out when needed. The lad will be a player if he keeps working at it as hard as he did here.
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Great month for Callum....from Carlisle local press...
Midfielder Callum O'Hare has been voted the PFA Bristol Street Motors League Two player of the month award.
The 21-year-old, who spent the second-half of the 2018/19 season on loan with Carlisle United from Aston Villa, has impressed during his stay with the Cumbrian outfit.
He beat Stevenage’s QPR loanee Ilias Chair, as well as Boro’s Kurtis Guthrie and 21-year-old Terence Vancooten, Forest Green’s Christian Doidge, and Newport defender Mickey Demetriou to the April gong.
"[I'm] really happy to have won April’s POTM award," he said on Twitter. "Thank you to everyone who voted."
Team-mate Anthony Gerrard added: "Brilliant to see, well done lad."
O'Hare was on the scoresheet as 10-man United beat Bury 3-2 at Brunton Park on April 6. He then also netted in Carlisle's 4-2 home win over Crawley, before last Saturday's season-ending goalless draw at Yeovil.
Aaron Pressley, the son of United manager Steven, is on the youth-team books at Villa.
Aston Villa host West Brom in the first leg of their Championship play-off semi-final tomorrow (12.15pm kick-off).
Every single name in that piece, apart from Anthony Gerrard and O'Hare (and that's marginal) was made up by Chris Morris.
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Aaron Presley? Come on. You might as well call your son Patrick Morrissey or Harvey Oswald.
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Is that Gerrard, Stevie's cousin?
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Yeah, we've just released him, decent enough but has weight issues and very slow. would do a job for Birmingham
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https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/news/2019/may/interview-its-been-a-really-enjoyable-time-for-me/
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I think he's the one youngster we've got who could yet make it with us.
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Is that Gerrard, Stevie's cousin?
Yes, most famous for missing the crucial penalty against his cousin's team in the shootout from a Liverpool vs Cardiff League Cup Final.
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Callum O Hare played a blinder last night setting up three goals as Coventry beat Bristol Rovers in front of a packed* St Andrews. Be nice to have him back.
*Att 2,697
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Did they have enough beer and pies to cope wirh that kind of crush?
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we might be playing therm next season.
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we might be playing therm next season.
Call 116 123
Trust me.
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we might be playing therm next season.
Call 116 123
Trust me.
I have visions of him dialing the wrong number and getting put on hold listening to a nun singing Ava Maria.
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Callum O Hare played a blinder last night setting up three goals as Coventry beat Bristol Rovers in front of a packed* St Andrews. Be nice to have him back.
*Att 2,697
Surely COH is a better option than Lansbury for us right now?
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O'Hare will be Jack's replacement should he leave. Hopefully we'll see both in the squad next season.
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O'Hare will be Jack's replacement should he leave. Hopefully we'll see both in the squad next season.
Maybe. It depends on Callum developing and timing. If he’s Jack’s replacement anytime in the near future I’d suggest things haven't gone well.
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Maybe we can’t bring some of these on loan players back due to the loan agreement
that’s what someone said to me anyway when I suggested we bought RHM back
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I think Callum has been in and out of the Cov team, there's been some impressive performances but not consistently so. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he comes back to us and starts games should we be relegated.
How has Mitch done this season?
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The last time I saw COH was in the FA Cup game against Swansea last year and he looked like a little boy lost.
Unless there's been a dramatic change in him over the past 12 months I wouldn't let him near a Premier League game.
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The last time I saw COH was in the FA Cup game against Swansea last year and he looked like a little boy lost.
Unless there's been a dramatic change in him over the past 12 months I wouldn't let him near a Premier League game.
My take on it also.
High hopes are great, and I think O'Hare could be a decent footballer, but suggesting he would be ready to potentially replace Grealish in approx a year's time is fantasy stuff IMO.
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Isn't O'Hare the same age as Luiz? He was a great hope of ours but seems miles off PL standard. Puts some of Luiz's below par performances into perspective.
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Isn't O'Hare the same age as Luiz? He was a great hope of ours but seems miles off PL standard. Puts some of Luiz's below par performances into perspective.
Yeah. Hepburn-Murphy is only a few months younger as well, I believe. And you are right - generally fans tend to be a bit more patient when their are their own academy players.
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The last time I saw COH was in the FA Cup game against Swansea last year and he looked like a little boy lost.
Unless there's been a dramatic change in him over the past 12 months I wouldn't let him near a Premier League game.
you’ve just described are current midfield apart from the obvious one
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On a similar note, I believe several of our younger players contracts are currently due to expire this summer; O’Hare, Green, Hepburn-Murphy, Doyle-Hayes, Sarkic.
Be interesting to see how many of that group we keep. Obviously the division we are in will be a factor.
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O Hare is a league (at least) above the rest of his present team mates. I think next year, with the Villa, could be his time.
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Check out the highlights of Cov's FA Cup replay the other night on the Beeb football page. Worth it to see the weight on the passes for their first two goals assisted by Callum. Lovely stuff.
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Turning into quite a playmaker albeit as a supersub. Last night against a team from the lower leagues:
CALLUM O’HARE (72 mins, for Westbrooke): 7.5
As busy and lively as ever, the Villa loan man helped keep up the pressure and set up Biamou for his extra-time goal.
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I think it was a mistake to let O'hare go on loan, I'd rather he came on than Lansbury.
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Mitch Clark was loaned out by Leicester to Port Vale on 30 January.
He started for Vale last Saturday in a 1-1 draw against Salford.
Wondering why he's gone out on loan again?
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I’m sure I read that O’Hare’s contract’s up in the summer. Does this mean we could lose him if he didn’t really-sign or is there an option we have? Seems strange to not have him tied down atleast.
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I think it was a mistake to let O'hare go on loan, I'd rather he came on than Lansbury.
He would have barely played. He needed to go out and play regularly for his development.
The problem is that he should really have been loaned out a lot earlier. Sadly, it didn’t seem like something that Bruce/the club were very good at at the time.
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I think it was a mistake to let O'hare go on loan, I'd rather he came on than Lansbury.
He would have barely played. He needed to go out and play regularly for his development.
The problem is that he should really have been loaned out a lot earlier. Sadly, it didn’t seem like something that Bruce/the club were very good at at the time.
Yeah he definitely wasted one season under Bruce where he made a few appearances, scored a goal or two but ultimately was never going to get an extended run in the team.
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I think it was a mistake to let O'hare go on loan, I'd rather he came on than Lansbury.
He would have barely played. He needed to go out and play regularly for his development.
The problem is that he should really have been loaned out a lot earlier. Sadly, it didn’t seem like something that Bruce/the club were very good at at the time.
Yeah he definitely wasted one season under Bruce where he made a few appearances, scored a goal or two but ultimately was never going to get an extended run in the team.
That was very frustrating, he was, apparently, all ready to go on loan in Jan 18 before Bruce stepped in and blocked it because he needed him only for him to not make another matchday squad all year. The mismanagement of the youth players like that is one of the biggest problems I've had with the club for years.
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I think it was a mistake to let O'hare go on loan, I'd rather he came on than Lansbury.
Whilst I agree he would probably be a better option than Lansbury, him getting regular first team football won't do him any harm at all.
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In recent years too many players languished in the Academy side, where the football is, by and large neither physical or competitive. As a result they failed to develop.
For the good of the players and the club they should have been out on loan learning the physical rough and tumble of first team football in the lower leagues, Whilst at the same time not bring mollycoddled but having to stand on their own two feet.
We should aim to loan them to Divs 3/4 for a season and then let them go out to a 2nd Div club if they show sufficient promise.
Several benefits:
Academy places freed up for youngsters ccoming through
The loanees get to see life outside a big club and hopefully become determined to make It at VP
The club gets to see if they've got what It takes and can then take steps to move out more quickly those that it feels won't make the grade.
It was illuminating to see how the Academy side struggled against Salford City and Tranmere.
At present, apart from O'Hare and possibly Ramsey there doesn't seem to be anybody coming through who might be pushing for a first team place next season, which is an indictment of our recruitment AND development system.
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Not counting Vassilev, Archer, Sarkic or Bridge then?
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I'm not discounting them, but they have some way to go.
It would be really good if, say in 3 years time we had a match day squad including:
Grealish
O'Hare
Ramsey
Barry (Louie)
Bridge
Vassilev
Archer
Sarkic
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Isn't Revan supposed to be good too?
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Yes, the waste of talent in our youth system is truly shocking.
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Isn't Revan supposed to be good too?
Loan him out and see. He was making the first team bench last season on occasions so surprised he hasn't gone out yet.
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That’s why they have brought Mark Harrison in. It was woefully old school and insignificant within the club hierarchy before he joined , but he’s part of the integrated long term plan that gives me so much hope for the future. At last , we are run and set up like the big club we are.
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Said it many years ago. People at the Villa, including some who posted on here, were waxing lyrical about the younger players winning the reserve league (or whatever name it was going under that season) when other teams were sending their players out on loan and getting experience at the mucky end of the league. Then when said players got to the age of 21/22 they had no experience of fully grown adult football and just lost their way.
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Said it many years ago. People at the Villa, including some who posted on here, were waxing lyrical about the younger players winning the reserve league (or whatever name it was going under that season) when other teams were sending their players out on loan and getting experience at the mucky end of the league. Then when said players got to the age of 21/22 they had no experience of fully grown adult football and just lost their way.
Yep, no one from that team has had any impact on us. Oh, except our captain of course.
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Said it many years ago. People at the Villa, including some who posted on here, were waxing lyrical about the younger players winning the reserve league (or whatever name it was going under that season) when other teams were sending their players out on loan and getting experience at the mucky end of the league. Then when said players got to the age of 21/22 they had no experience of fully grown adult football and just lost their way.
Yep, no one from that team has had any impact on us. Oh, except our captain of course.
That kind of proves his point, no?
Edit - i may have misinterpreted actual agreement with him for sarcasm, if so, apologies.
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Said it many years ago. People at the Villa, including some who posted on here, were waxing lyrical about the younger players winning the reserve league (or whatever name it was going under that season) when other teams were sending their players out on loan and getting experience at the mucky end of the league. Then when said players got to the age of 21/22 they had no experience of fully grown adult football and just lost their way.
Yep, no one from that team has had any impact on us. Oh, except our captain of course.
That kind of proves his point, no?
Edit - i may have misinterpreted actual agreement with him for sarcasm, if so, apologies.
I think you have, but Jack is the exception that proves the point anyway. He went on loan to Notts County, impressed, and was playing for the first team by 18. He didn't have the wilderness years playing reserve team football, and now look at him.
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It was a bit of both. Grealish is clear proof that where we have genuine quality, with the right attitude, they come through and have an impact. So the implication that the club has failed in some way really isn't fair. I doubt there are many clubs that have seen more academy products go on to be regulars in the premier league (for someone) than we have.
What we were lacking was a player coming through who became a genuinely world class talent, I think that criticism can probably be put to bed now though.
What I agree with is that the team from the next gen was criminally misused over the next few years and that, along with some questionable attitudes mean that, of the 18 in the final only Jack and Robinson are playing top flight football as they come towards their prime, that's a pretty clear waste of potential.
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Another point worth making about COH, Ramsey, Bridge et al: Grealish's achievements have been based as much on hard work and attitude as on his talent - he has shown what is possible with some graft and determination (previous generations had Gabby ....).
I'm hoping one of the spin-offs of Grealish's rise to stardom and role-modelling is a flood of new talent coming through on his coat-tails.
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Another point worth making about COH, Ramsey, Bridge et al: Grealish's achievements have been based as much on hard work and attitude as on his talent - he has shown what is possible with some graft and determination (previous generations had Gabby ....).
I'm hoping one of the spin-offs of Grealish's rise to stardom and role-modelling is a flood of new talent coming through on his coat-tails.
Jeez, that is a good point. For players coming through and the club generally the example set by Grealish compared to gabby is huge. I’m not talking talent but work ethic, determination and taking responsibility for yourself.
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Cov fan I know reckons O'Hare is the most talented player they have had since Maddison and will go a long way. He is also convinced he is a Bluenose, for all it matters. We need to take the option up on his and Greens contracts to not lose them for nothing this summer.
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Said it many years ago. People at the Villa, including some who posted on here, were waxing lyrical about the younger players winning the reserve league (or whatever name it was going under that season) when other teams were sending their players out on loan and getting experience at the mucky end of the league. Then when said players got to the age of 21/22 they had no experience of fully grown adult football and just lost their way.
Yep, no one from that team has had any impact on us. Oh, except our captain of course.
He went on a six month loan to Notts County during 13/14 season. I watched him play v Walsall (was only 18 at the time). Calum McGregor at Celtic was also on loan there at the same time.
I'd say if you spoke to Jack he'd say that loaned pushed on far more than just staying and playing for the reserves/under 23s.
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Cov fan I know reckons O'Hare is the most talented player they have had since Maddison and will go a long way. He is also convinced he is a Bluenose, for all it matters. We need to take the option up on his and Greens contracts to not lose them for nothing this summer.
Probably because of that awful miss last minute v them in the cup!
Think we'll see C O'H around the 18 next season. Hopefully what won't happen is we sell Grealish and then start bigging up O'Hare as his replacement as that would put stupid pressure on him.
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Was very impressed with O'Hare a couple of years ago, looked a rare breed with respect to a number of other prospects in recent times by virtue of the fact that he has a sharp football brain. Always looking to pass and move into good space, we seldom produce players like this.
It's strange to me that at 22 years old this year he has only been given the opportunity to play consistently at League One level. I question whether the club has done the right thing by him, surely he could have been fast tracked a bit earlier.
At this stage I genuinely have no idea what the future lies for him, if we do go down this season, which is a distinct possibility, then I think he is well worth a look. If we stay up then I doubt he has much of a future as we will be looking for players to push us up the table...
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O’Hara posted a picture after today’s game. Must have taken a right blow to the head, as looks a nasty injury. Not for the squeamish https://twitter.com/calohare/status/1226217819790020608?s=21
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O’Hara posted a picture after today’s game. Must have taken a right blow to the head, as looks a nasty injury. Not for the squeamish https://twitter.com/calohare/status/1226217819790020608?s=21
Wait, I just went to check the match report from today and he WASN'T EVEN SUBSTITUTED?? How is that possible? Unless it happened in the 95th minute maybe? Either way, that's a pretty big cut and I don't see him out heading a ball for a few weeks?
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Was very impressed with O'Hare a couple of years ago, looked a rare breed with respect to a number of other prospects in recent times by virtue of the fact that he has a sharp football brain. Always looking to pass and move into good space, we seldom produce players like this.
It's strange to me that at 22 years old this year he has only been given the opportunity to play consistently at League One level. I question whether the club has done the right thing by him, surely he could have been fast tracked a bit earlier.
At this stage I genuinely have no idea what the future lies for him, if we do go down this season, which is a distinct possibility, then I think he is well worth a look. If we stay up then I doubt he has much of a future as we will be looking for players to push us up the table...
He always seemed very small and slight, and I just thought the club were just waiting on him to have his growth spurt, which some kids have later than others - but his hasn't really arrived. At 22, he's unlikely to get any bigger now, so I guess the next 12 months will give a good indication of his level. He has ability on the ball, clearly. But so does Jota. You need a bit more at the top level, unfortunately. I'd like to think there is a place in the squad for tidy, skilful midfielders, I guess time will tell if he's strong enough and quick enough.
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O’Hara posted a picture after today’s game. Must have taken a right blow to the head, as looks a nasty injury. Not for the squeamish https://twitter.com/calohare/status/1226217819790020608?s=21
Bandaged up and played on by the sounds of it. Fair play to him, as it looks nasty.
Wait, I just went to check the match report from today and he WASN'T EVEN SUBSTITUTED?? How is that possible? Unless it happened in the 95th minute maybe? Either way, that's a pretty big cut and I don't see him out heading a ball for a few weeks?
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Was very impressed with O'Hare a couple of years ago, looked a rare breed with respect to a number of other prospects in recent times by virtue of the fact that he has a sharp football brain. Always looking to pass and move into good space, we seldom produce players like this.
It's strange to me that at 22 years old this year he has only been given the opportunity to play consistently at League One level. I question whether the club has done the right thing by him, surely he could have been fast tracked a bit earlier.
At this stage I genuinely have no idea what the future lies for him, if we do go down this season, which is a distinct possibility, then I think he is well worth a look. If we stay up then I doubt he has much of a future as we will be looking for players to push us up the table...
He always seemed very small and slight, and I just thought the club were just waiting on him to have his growth spurt, which some kids have later than others - but his hasn't really arrived. At 22, he's unlikely to get any bigger now, so I guess the next 12 months will give a good indication of his level. He has ability on the ball, clearly. But so does Jota. You need a bit more at the top level, unfortunately. I'd like to think there is a place in the squad for tidy, skilful midfielders, I guess time will tell if he's strong enough and quick enough.
For me a lot of that could have been (or still could be) address by better strength and conditioning. I think he's a shade over 5 ft 7 but there's a lot of players in his position in and around that height. The difference is that they're stronger and better conditioned.
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I wonder if we've had a word with Cov about letting him play on for half an hour with that head injury. The bloke he clashed heads with was substituted at the time.
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Bloody Hell, Soccer HQ! I want to that Notts v Walsall game ( or Grealish v Deano, as it should correctly have been billed). Remember that storm that came in as the players were warming up?
Does anyone know of Ozzjim is correct in that we have another year's option on Cal? If so, we'd better take it up!!
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Bloody Hell, Soccer HQ! I want to that Notts v Walsall game ( or Grealish v Deano, as it should correctly have been billed). Remember that storm that came in as the players were warming up?
Does anyone know of Ozzjim is correct in that we have another year's option on Cal? If so, we'd better take it up!!
I was still in the Trent Bridge Inn when the storm hit.....(wink).
Yes it was 5-1 Walsall wasn't it? Even in that game Walsall were kicking Grealish all the time.
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Said it many years ago. People at the Villa, including some who posted on here, were waxing lyrical about the younger players winning the reserve league (or whatever name it was going under that season) when other teams were sending their players out on loan and getting experience at the mucky end of the league. Then when said players got to the age of 21/22 they had no experience of fully grown adult football and just lost their way.
Yep, no one from that team has had any impact on us. Oh, except our captain of course.
He went on a six month loan to Notts County during 13/14 season. I watched him play v Walsall (was only 18 at the time). Calum McGregor at Celtic was also on loan there at the same time.
I'd say if you spoke to Jack he'd say that loaned pushed on far more than just staying and playing for the reserves/under 23s.
Wasn't Sean Derry their manager at the time. I'm sure I've heard him talking about Jack saying even then all the press he got was unfair and he was one of the hardest working youngsters he'd ever worked with.
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Grealish spent the season at Notts Co as his loan was extended in Jan.
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O Hare played the full game last night in head bandage and set up the winning goal.
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O’Hare scored a cracking goal today; he really is class.
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what's the position with his contract? sounds like he could be a good prospect if we drop down.
Apologies for lowering the tone on cup final day but just realised we could have 2 trips to the sty next yr if Cov get promoted!
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what's the position with his contract? sounds like he could be a good prospect if we drop down.
Apologies for lowering the tone on cup final day but just realised we could have 2 trips to the sty next yr if Cov get promoted!
That’s the spirit!!
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O’Hare has rejected several new contract offers apparently
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-suffer-setback-contract-18362158
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O’Hare has rejected several new contract offers apparently
https://www.xxxx.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-suffer-setback-contract-18362158
I imagine it might be his agent playing hard-ball, potentially trying to guarantee playing time in the contract.
If we go down, we'll be absolute mugs to have let O'hare and Davis go.
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Non-meaning evil link
https://www.footballinsider247.com/aston-villa-in-line-to-lose-22-year-old-this-month/?grva_cmp_open=1
They seem to think he'll be attracting the attention of Championship and League 1 clubs.
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If he wants to go somewhere else to get first team football you can't really blame him. I would say good luck to him but still reserve such pleasantries for later in case he turns up at some shower of bastards.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it is SHA. His family are all rabid fans.
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Makes you wonder how Chelsea seem to have millions of kids on contracts and perfectly happy to go out on loan. We really must not let anyone go that may be of greater value to us financially or team wise in the future.
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If we were to go down he’s a player I’d like to keep.
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Tough situation. This time of the year, we’d normally know what division we're in.
If we’d gone down, I’d imagine we’d look at Callam as a potential replacement for Jack.
If we’d stayed up, maybe Jack stays and Callum doesn’t get any game time.
As we stand, we just don’t know, so offering a bumper contract would be silly if the latter (hopefully) happens.
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Would be sorry to lose him, looks very talented.
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I think we'll come to regret it if we let him go.
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He's 22, still nowhere near the first team and turning down new deals. If he goes it's hardly our fault.
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He's 22, still nowhere near the first team and turning down new deals. If he goes it's hardly our fault.
Exactly.
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He's joined yet another one we loaned out too late.
Good he's getting the experience now but he's already 22, should've been going out on season long loan at 19-20. The ideal time was when he start the FA cup defeat to Peterborough. Instead we kept him for some reason and he barely made the bench rest of the season.
Seems a pretty easy decision for him, he's a regular at Coventry and they're pretty likely to be in championship so got more chance of regular game there than here even if he comes back and we go down.
Oh and the thought of being in same division as Coventry again needs to be drummed into the players for another stay up at all costs mentality.
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2 trips to the Sty ffs.
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I wish him the best of luck....elsewhere.
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He's 22, still nowhere near the first team and turning down new deals. If he goes it's hardly our fault.
Exactly.
Yep, Purslow said at the Trust Q&A earlier this year that "22-year-old footballers on a payroll at Aston Villa need to be in the first team" so it wouldn't surprise me if we've offered him a conditional contract, subject to which division we're in. He's nowhere near good enough for the Prem at the moment.
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Even if he isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's good enough to justify a fee. Letting players with a resale value get into the last year of their contract is poor business sense, regardless of whether he would ever have been good enough to become a first team regular. At the very least, I'd like us to have been able to sell him to someone with a sell-on fee, so we don't feel like total twats if he turns out to be the new Johan Cruyff.
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Even if he isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's good enough to justify a fee. Letting players with a resale value get into the last year of their contract is poor business sense, regardless of whether he would ever have been good enough to become a first team regular. At the very least, I'd like us to have been able to sell him to someone with a sell-on fee, so we don't feel like total twats if he turns out to be the new Johan Cruyff.
You can't make a player sign a new deal, and we couldn't have had a sell-on fee agreed for a player who would be out of contract.
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Let’s not forget that he was 19-21 when we were in the Championship yet never really threatened the first team - sure he’ll have a decent career but looks like he won’t be doing that at Villa.
I agree with Purslow at 22 you should be in the mix
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Will it go to a tribunial or have the rules changed on that?
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Even if he isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's good enough to justify a fee. Letting players with a resale value get into the last year of their contract is poor business sense, regardless of whether he would ever have been good enough to become a first team regular. At the very least, I'd like us to have been able to sell him to someone with a sell-on fee, so we don't feel like total twats if he turns out to be the new Johan Cruyff.
You can't make a player sign a new deal, and we couldn't have had a sell-on fee agreed for a player who would be out of contract.
I'm not on about getting him to sign a deal now, I meant previously. Sign young, promising, players to long-term deals before they get to this stage. Or, if he didn't sign a contract last year, sell him. Better to get some fee than nothing.
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Even if he isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's good enough to justify a fee. Letting players with a resale value get into the last year of their contract is poor business sense, regardless of whether he would ever have been good enough to become a first team regular. At the very least, I'd like us to have been able to sell him to someone with a sell-on fee, so we don't feel like total twats if he turns out to be the new Johan Cruyff.
You can't make a player sign a new deal, and we couldn't have had a sell-on fee agreed for a player who would be out of contract.
I'm not on about getting him to sign a deal now, I meant previously. Sign young, promising, players to long-term deals before they get to this stage. Or, if he didn't sign a contract last year, sell him. Better to get some fee than nothing.
And then get pelters for selling one of our brightest prospects.
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Better than getting pelters for letting him go for nothing. We could also then have inserted the sort of clause I mentioned. Even it means selling at a low price, you are getting some insurance against losing all of twenty million or more if he turns out to be a genius.
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Better than getting pelters for letting him go for nothing. We could also then have inserted the sort of clause I mentioned. Even it means selling at a low price, you are getting some insurance against losing all of twenty million or more if he turns out to be a genius.
We could have done. And maybe we tried but nobody wanted to touch a deal like that.
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Perhaps. I just have a bad feeling about this one. Mind you, I thought Graham Fenton was going to get 100 England caps so could be wrong.
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Agree with Purslow’s comments completely. Top players like Owen, Giggs, Shearer and Rooney had been playing first team top flight football for 4 years by the time they were Callum’s age. Good luck to him elsewhere , I just don’t see him being good enough for the premier league.
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You never know with young players which is why they are generally given short contracts until they establish themselves. The danger is they start to become a player in the final year of it.
And while a lot of players are establised by 22, Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at the same age as a different example.
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Perhaps. I just have a bad feeling about this one. Mind you, I thought Graham Fenton was going to get 100 England caps so could be wrong.
I thought Mark Blake would replace David Platt in the England team. When the time came he was at Walsall. For every Marc Albrighton (or even someone like Daniel Johnson or Barry Bannan) there's a dozen who drop straight through the leagues.
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Let’s not forget that he was 19-21 when we were in the Championship yet never really threatened the first team - sure he’ll have a decent career but looks like he won’t be doing that at Villa.
I agree with Purslow at 22 you should be in the mix
Competing with likes of Grealish or McGinn for a starting position? Under Xia, we gambled everything on an immediate return to the top division so you can see why Bruce went with the more experienced pros but it was at the detriment of some promising players. The club failed them really from a development perspective at a key stage.
I certainly think the likes of COH, Green and Davis have more potential than let's say Lansbury, Trez and Wes. Wouldn't be the first time we have discarded young players with potential, Cahill and Steven Davis for example.
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It’s difficult,but at the present time is he showing enough ?to be offered a significant salary increase and a better contract. It appears we have different opinions on this board, maybe that’s good enough reason to let him go, if we can’t agree terms.
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He's done well at Cov but he's still been in and out of their team. To justify even a fringe PL player wage he would have had to be playing out of his skin and ripping up that division. Otherwise, how can he expect to make an impact in a higher division? He's four-five years older than Jack was at Notts County and not done a huge deal more.
I like O'Hare, he's got lovely balance and clever feet. I'm a sucker for technically gifted playmakers, especially home-grown Villa ones as they rarely come through for us (maybe a climate of no fans at games and pressure being lifted is one in which Stephen Cooke might have thrived) but it sounds like his agent is bigging him up beyond his value here.
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Perhaps. I just have a bad feeling about this one. Mind you, I thought Graham Fenton was going to get 100 England caps so could be wrong.
I thought Mark Blake would replace David Platt in the England team. When the time came he was at Walsall. For every Marc Albrighton (or even someone like Daniel Johnson or Barry Bannan) there's a dozen who drop straight through the leagues.
You weren't alone with Mark Blake, I thought he was going to be a top player.
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Perhaps. I just have a bad feeling about this one. Mind you, I thought Graham Fenton was going to get 100 England caps so could be wrong.
I thought Mark Blake would replace David Platt in the England team. When the time came he was at Walsall. For every Marc Albrighton (or even someone like Daniel Johnson or Barry Bannan) there's a dozen who drop straight through the leagues.
You weren't alone with Mark Blake, I thought he was going to be a top player.
Strange how he fell away, then vanished out of mind altogether. Nobody ever talks about him as a Whatever Happened To? yet he had, as you said, the makings of a top player. On the whole we make mistakes but there aren't all that many players you can say come back to haunt us. Cahill was an obvious blunder by a manager who clearly didn't rate him even though everyone could see his quality, but the rest are mostly a case of us subsequently dropping to their level.
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I think Mark Blake played in that game at Goodison Park where we fielded more black players than white players and won 2-0. He always loked fairly decent to me but ultimately the vast majority of his league appearances were for Walsall and Mansfield.
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I think Mark Blake played in that game at Goodison Park where we fielded more black players than white players and won 2-0. He always loked fairly decent to me but ultimately the vast majority of his league appearances were for Walsall and Mansfield.
7 black players, which must have delighted a number of 'Everton are white' fans.
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I think Mark Blake played in that game at Goodison Park where we fielded more black players than white players and won 2-0. He always loked fairly decent to me but ultimately the vast majority of his league appearances were for Walsall and Mansfield.
7 black players, which must have delighted a number of 'Everton are white' fans.
They still hadn't had a black player at that point. It was 1991.
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I think Mark Blake played in that game at Goodison Park where we fielded more black players than white players and won 2-0. He always loked fairly decent to me but ultimately the vast majority of his league appearances were for Walsall and Mansfield.
I was there that day. We were superb.
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They'd had 1 or 2 yonks earlier but they hadn't had one for about 20 years until they signed Amokachi, and black players even in the 90s and 2000s said they suffered some of their worst racial abuse at Goodison. Les Ferdinand was vocal about it back then.
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I think Mark Blake played in that game at Goodison Park where we fielded more black players than white players and won 2-0. He always loked fairly decent to me but ultimately the vast majority of his league appearances were for Walsall and Mansfield.
I was there that day. We were superb.
I was too, and we were, Daley's goal was sublime.
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They'd had 1 or 2 yonks earlier but they hadn't had one for about 20 years until they signed Amokachi, and black players even in the 90s and 2000s said they suffered some of their worst racial abuse at Goodison. Les Ferdinand was vocal about it back then.
Fair enough. I've always suspected that given how their fans seemed to revel in it, it wasn't an accident that it had been that long.
Liverpool is a strange place regarding race, it felt a lot more segregated up there than down here.
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They'd had 1 or 2 yonks earlier but they hadn't had one for about 20 years until they signed Amokachi, and black players even in the 90s and 2000s said they suffered some of their worst racial abuse at Goodison. Les Ferdinand was vocal about it back then.
Fair enough. I've always suspected that given how their fans seemed to revel in it, it wasn't an accident that it had been that long.
Liverpool is a strange place regarding race, it felt a lot more segregated up there than down here.
Liverpool has always been strange in that respect. It was the most politically aware and left-wing city in the country, with one of the oldest black communities, yet it was also one of the most racist and was fiercely segregated.
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The seven black players:
Barrett
McGrath
Blake
Daley
Yorke
Atkinson
Mortimer?
Are these right?
Edit replace Mortimer with Ehiogu?
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The seven black players:
Barrett
McGrath
Blake
Daley
Yorke
Atkinson
Mortimer?
Are these right?
Edit replace Mortimer with Ehiogu?
Bryan Small, I think.
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McGrath, Small, Blake, Atkinson, Daley, Yorke, Regis.
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That was amazing and under Big Ron. The racist!
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Given that O'Hare is 24, perhaps the club is looking at Ramsey x 2, Barry, Brunt, Vassilev, Chukwuemeka and Archer and saying: we can't keep everyone here and this younger cohort is the one to invest in.
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Given that O'Hare is 24, perhaps the club is looking at Ramsey x 2, Barry, Brunt, Vassilev, Chukwuemeka and Archer and saying: we can't keep everyone here and this younger cohort is the one to invest in.
About right there.
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He's 22, still nowhere near the first team and turning down new deals. If he goes it's hardly our fault.
Given that O'Hare is 24, perhaps the club is looking at Ramsey x 2, Barry, Brunt, Vassilev, Chukwuemeka and Archer and saying: we can't keep everyone here and this younger cohort is the one to invest in.
Wow, Callum aged quickly!
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He’s 25 now he’s clearly not going to make it at under 23 level.
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He's 22.
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Given that O'Hare is 24, perhaps the club is looking at Ramsey x 2, Barry, Brunt, Vassilev, Chukwuemeka and Archer and saying: we can't keep everyone here and this younger cohort is the one to invest in.
24 me bollix.
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So young.
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He's 22, still nowhere near the first team and turning down new deals. If he goes it's hardly our fault.
Given that O'Hare is 24, perhaps the club is looking at Ramsey x 2, Barry, Brunt, Vassilev, Chukwuemeka and Archer and saying: we can't keep everyone here and this younger cohort is the one to invest in.
Wow, Callum aged quickly!
Whoops; sorry guys - a bit of a brain-fart on my part.
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Bruce's lingering influence strikes again. He should have given CO'H more chances in 17/18. At least we would have known then if he was a player for us.
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Cal is a title winner now.
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After him dancing around in his Cov City shirt tweet, and him turning down the offer of a new contract with us, i don't think COH will be a Villa player much longer.
Good luck to him, it's a short enough career, and he is getting first team football.
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Absolutely, good luck to him. I have a feeling if we go down we'll regret not keeping him though.
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Bruce's lingering influence strikes again. He should have given CO'H more chances in 17/18. At least we would have known then if he was a player for us.
I think the first 2 season in the championship were a huge missed opportunity to bring through our younger players instead focusing on older players and loans which meant we were looking at another rebuild the next summer. RDM in particular pissed me off with it buying McCormack when we had Ayew and Grealish who could both play in that role and COH and RHM both in reserve and wanting to get some gametime, instead we went and spent the same again on Hogan. Does anyone think COH and RHM would've been any worse for us than that pair of useless fucks over the next 2 1/2 years, and we'd be £30m+ better off as well.
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Bruce's lingering influence strikes again. He should have given CO'H more chances in 17/18. At least we would have known then if he was a player for us.
Maybe, but we did have Grealish breaking through at the time and they are similar players. Besides, most players go out on loan at that age.
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Bruce's lingering influence strikes again. He should have given CO'H more chances in 17/18. At least we would have known then if he was a player for us.
Maybe, but we did have Grealish breaking through at the time and they are similar players. Besides, most players go out on loan at that age.
Well, he went out on loan to Carlisle in Jan 2019, so maybe he should have gone out earlier. Even a loan period 12 months' earlier might have benefitted his strength and match fitness in a way that being in the Villa U23's didn't. This, in turn, would have enabled the club to assess his longer term potnetial more quickly ....
.... anyway, hindsight is a wondersful thing. All I recall at the time is the existence of several laudatory reports of his skill and potential; all of which was either inaccurate or now wasted for us.
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If we go down, he'll sign a new contract with us.
If not, he'll sign fo some Championship team.
I hope I never see him in a Villa shirt again!
He's a talent but in my opinion too lightweight for the top level.
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I am prepared to lay odds that he will play at no higher level than the Championship. Why didn't he start all of Cov's games last season for example? i think he is a good player, but if he was good enough - and not forgetting three manager's have now seen him first hand, he would be playing for us. Harsh to judge him on one game but I thought he was really as you say lightweight in the Swansea cup game last year. Having said all of that, you just know he will score against us if we are relegated.
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Yes he was dreadful against Swansea.
With that said the Cov fans love him and want him to sign up. I think he could be very good in the Championship next year but agree he may not make PL level. If we go down I'd like him as an optin though.
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He's 22 and playing for Cov. It's nice to bring through our own but nothing about his career to date suggests he's good enough for us. Move on with our blessings.
Signing players and sticking with players who looked good in the division below was how we got relegated in the first place.
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It's possible to not be sure that a player will be Premier League standard but, at the same time, not want players with a sell on value to walk away for nothing.
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Someone said earlier in the thread that they were a sucker for the more technically gifted player
I'm also in that camp for good or bad
that's why from the little I've seen I've always liked Callum
what young players need most is a manager that believes in them
when you listen to the ones that have made it they always talk of a manager or coaching staff that have stuck by them and basically said your young you will make mistakes but we believe in your ability
Callum has never had that
of his previous mangers they were all deemed not good enough so maybe their discernment of him wasn't good enough either
I guarantee the people saying he's lightweight are the same ones 2/3 years ago saying Grealish was a lightweight one trick show pony
he's now the best player we've had at Villa for years
somebody (Sherwood) believed in him built the side around him and a couple of others,
told him he was the king of the world and look where we are
is he good enough is the key question is
I don't know but i do think he should have been used in the first team a whole lot more and we would be in a better position to judge
So now it's guesswork and what your hunch is
my hunch is he's good enough to develop into a tidy premiership player whether that be for us or someone else
only time will tell
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Someone said earlier in the thread that they were a sucker for the more technically gifted player
I'm also in that camp for good or bad
that's why from the little I've seen I've always liked Callum
what young players need most is a manager that believes in them
when you listen to the ones that have made it they always talk of a manager or coaching staff that have stuck by them and basically said your young you will make mistakes but we believe in your ability
Callum has never had that
of his previous mangers they were all deemed not good enough so maybe their discernment of him wasn't good enough either
I guarantee the people saying he's lightweight are the same ones 2/3 years ago saying Grealish was a lightweight one trick show pony
he's now the best player we've had at Villa for years
somebody (Sherwood) believed in him built the side around him and a couple of others,
told him he was the king of the world and look where we are
is he good enough is the key question is
I don't know but i do think he should have been used in the first team a whole lot more and we would be in a better position to judge
So now it's guesswork and what your hunch is
my hunch is he's good enough to develop into a tidy premiership player whether that be for us or someone else
only time will tell
I don't know if he will but I think he could, it's all about taking a chance on someone. I think one of the problems with bringing young players through in the last 10-12 years is that there's been no trust in them, they'll get a few minutes here and there or a cup game against a lower league side and it's never enough to be sure either way so they're held back from loans in case we need them but not played because we don't know if they're ready.
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It's possible to not be sure that a player will be Premier League standard but, at the same time, not want players with a sell on value to walk away for nothing.
Sure but unfortunately that horse appears to have bolted.
Where we are now, letting him go and try to make a career somewhere else seems a better option than offering him another contract only to send him out on loan for the entirety of it.
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another Jota , ok in the championship but not prem quality
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If we go down, he'll sign a new contract with us.
If not, he'll sign fo some Championship team.
I hope I never see him in a Villa shirt again!
He's a talent but in my opinion too lightweight for the top level.
Being lightweight was something Grealish corrected. It's something every pro coming through our academy should have corrected by COHs age through appropriate strength and conditioning.
Something, S&C, I suspect AVFC was a long way behind it's peers on, using Green and Davis persistent injuries as another example.
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... I think one of the problems with bringing young players through in the last 10-12 years is that there's been no trust in them, they'll get a few minutes here and there or a cup game against a lower league side and it's never enough to be sure either way so they're held back from loans in case we need them but not played because we don't know if they're ready.
Yes, and the environment in which they would have come into the first team reckoning was one where we've been on the back foot: struggling teams with managers under pressure pretty much describes our last 8-9 seasons.
We're back to the issues of short-term maangerial appointments and crap planning: it's scuppered our academy as well as the first team antics.
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I do think Villa should be trying to get players out on loans earlier, even if it's non-league football and we're picking up most/all of the wages.
As for O'Hare, he's 22 and not getting near the first team. Get rid. He might come good, but realistically he's not going to displace anyone in the side right now, and if we do end up losing McGinn or Grealish (hopefully not), we'll have enough money to aim higher than someone who looks decent in League 1.
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Following this whole pandemic thing and the need to support other clubs, I would honestly like to see Villa link with Walsall and send them our up and coming talent. Help them with salaries, gives their fans something good to watch, prepares our players. Doesn't need to be Walsall, could be Northampton, just examples.
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Someone said earlier in the thread that they were a sucker for the more technically gifted player
I'm also in that camp for good or bad.
Aye, that was me. And if they're Brummie/Villans all the better. It's why I always cut Lee and Luke so much slack. They had talent that can't be taught and I wanted them to win things for us by showing it. And also why it'll be so gutting to see Jack, a clear tier above, leave.
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Following this whole pandemic thing and the need to support other clubs, I would honestly like to see Villa link with Walsall and send them our up and coming talent. Help them with salaries, gives their fans something good to watch, prepares our players. Doesn't need to be Walsall, could be Northampton, just examples.
I don't know why clubs don't forge stronger link-ups with clubs, especially in the current climate. A lot of good could come from it.
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I'd imagine it's probably to do with conflict of interests if they meet in a cup or end up in the same division.
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I'd imagine it's probably to do with conflict of interests if they meet in a cup or end up in the same division.
I think that's just part of the game. If they loan players for the season, I don't think the parent clubs should get all precious about it if they play each other in the cups. If we did loan out to, say, Walsall, we would only likely meet them in the first couple of rounds of the League or FA Cup. It would make us play the game more seriously as we wouldn't want to suffer the embarrassment of losing, but if we did lose, we would be doing so by learning about our loaned out players. I take your point about conflict of interests but surely we'd want our players playing every game and not ask the loanee club to hold them back.
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Bruce's lingering influence strikes again. He should have given CO'H more chances in 17/18. At least we would have known then if he was a player for us.
I think the first 2 season in the championship were a huge missed opportunity to bring through our younger players instead focusing on older players and loans which meant we were looking at another rebuild the next summer. RDM in particular pissed me off with it buying McCormack when we had Ayew and Grealish who could both play in that role and COH and RHM both in reserve and wanting to get some gametime, instead we went and spent the same again on Hogan. Does anyone think COH and RHM would've been any worse for us than that pair of useless fucks over the next 2 1/2 years, and we'd be £30m+ better off as well.
Even the young players we signed around that time didn't amount to much. Signed James Bree who was a regular at Barnsley in same division. Struggled a bit and now we're loaning him out every window hoping someone will buy him.
Jacob Bedeau also cost nearly a million but didn't last long.
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Who?
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Full-back (?) from Bury, I think.
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Some bizarre signings over the years.
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I thought that the policy of the club is not to have players of his age holding back younger guys from being in the 1st team squad.
If at 22 he is not going to be near our first team then it is time he moved on.
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Following this whole pandemic thing and the need to support other clubs, I would honestly like to see Villa link with Walsall and send them our up and coming talent. Help them with salaries, gives their fans something good to watch, prepares our players. Doesn't need to be Walsall, could be Northampton, just examples.
I don't know why clubs don't forge stronger link-ups with clubs, especially in the current climate. A lot of good could come from it.
It's not that simple though.
Whatever players we send out on loan, we're going to want them to be playing 1st team football. If they all go to the same team that's less likely to happen.
And for the receiving club they're not going to want to be permanently filled with players that aren't theirs as it doesn't really lead to them being successful in their own right. The odd few can help them to progress, but they'd want to choose who and when.
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Jacob Bedeau also cost nearly a million but didn't last long.
Bernard Cribbins bought him in 2017 for £900k; he was 'freed' to Scunthorpe in 2019.
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Bernard Cribbins? I thought the affectionate term for him was ‘Nan’s Hair.’
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Bernard Cribbins? I thought the affectionate term for him was ‘Nan’s Hair.’
Who, Bruce?
For me, it's either Bernard C or Potatohead.
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Who?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38815258
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Callum signed for Ryton today I see. Three year deal.
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I didn’t see what he posted a couple of weeks ago which at least shows good respect.
“Fifteen amazing years at this club, can’t thank the fans, the lads and every single member of staff enough for helping and developing me into the player I am today. Wishing everyone the best in the future,"
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Callum signed for Ryton today I see. Three year deal.
Don't blame him. He's well liked and pretty much guaranteed loads of starts in the Championship. It's a great opportunity for him to prove his ability and kick on rather than potentially waste another season being a bit part player for us.
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Do we get a development fee for him and if so how is that calculated?
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£275k I think.
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O'Hare is older than Douglas Luiz - you'd think if O'Hare was going to make it at a big club he'd have made some sort of breakthrough by now
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Disappointed he's gone to Cov. Been better at a Millwall.
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Disappointed he's gone to Cov. Been better at a Millwall.
not as disappointed as he will be himself