Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: georgevilla on March 20, 2019, 06:42:00 PM
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i read on here that the doug ellis wasn’t a rebuild but just an expansion of the old witton lane stand that was there before. can anyone confirm this? if so does that mean it shares the same concourses and lower tier?
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The lower tier is the old stand and the upper was squashed into the space allowed. By all accounts the upper tier is dire and one of the poorest away ends going.
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It started off as the old stand - with exits and entrances in place from what was probably the 1897 original stand but the season after the new stand opened the lower tier was re-built with the layout we have today.
The links below show the stand under construction with the new seats bolted onto the original profile.
https://www.google.com/search?q=witton+lane+stand+1994&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB829GB829&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy08yRsZHhAhVlo3EKHWQXBEAQ_AUIDigB&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=BfKPrvhQE1ZgWM:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB829GB829&biw=1536&bih=722&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=Z4ySXIqJF4y0UvLFm7AM&q=witton+lane+stnad+1945&oq=witton+lane+stnad+1945&gs_l=img.3...2198.2737..3209...0.0..0.60.330.6......1....1..gws-wiz-img.D_Hv6daCLwk#imgrc=-Zixh5lZ7zY_cM:
https://pixels.com/featured/aston-villa-villa-park-witton-lane-stand-1-april-1993-legendary-football-grounds.html
That make sense?
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Sat in the Upper once. The amount of leg room was dire.
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The club wanted a few extra feet of land to give the upper tier more space, but the council turned them down, due to the houses in its shadow.
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Wow. Amazing what 25 years does to the memory. I forgot how small it was!
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Witton Upper is fine.The view is great, but the concourse is tight and the food/drink thingys are not very good.
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Here's another one stadium geeks...
https://pixels.com/featured/aston-villa-villa-park-bw-1960s-legendary-football-grounds.html
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It started off as the old stand - with exits and entrances in place from what was probably the 1897 original stand but the season after the new stand opened the lower tier was re-built with the layout we have today.
The links below show the stand under construction with the new seats bolted onto the original profile.
https://www.google.com/search?q=witton+lane+stand+1994&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB829GB829&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy08yRsZHhAhVlo3EKHWQXBEAQ_AUIDigB&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=BfKPrvhQE1ZgWM:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB829GB829&biw=1536&bih=722&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=Z4ySXIqJF4y0UvLFm7AM&q=witton+lane+stnad+1945&oq=witton+lane+stnad+1945&gs_l=img.3...2198.2737..3209...0.0..0.60.330.6......1....1..gws-wiz-img.D_Hv6daCLwk#imgrc=-Zixh5lZ7zY_cM:
https://pixels.com/featured/aston-villa-villa-park-witton-lane-stand-1-april-1993-legendary-football-grounds.html
That make sense?
right so when it was built they just built behind the stand that was there? so expanded the lower and added the upper and then the season after once it was built added a new concourse and exits etc? or a complete rebuild?
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Complete rebuild of the lower teir if i remember correctly.
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Sat in the Upper once. The amount of leg room was dire.
The concourses are dangerously cramped upstairs.
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Witton Upper is fine.The view is great, but the concourse is tight and the food/drink thingys are not very good.
This.
The view from the upper is great but the concourse is horrible.
I have only ever sati in the north stand once, for the Dynamo Kiev home leg. I seem to remember the concourse was pretty narrow up there as well.
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Wasn't the lower tier originally the stand built for the 1966 World Cup?
Have had season tickets for both upper and lower North Stand
The leg room is poor in both tiers and the concourses aren't very roomy either
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Form memory, Witton Lane was diverted a bit to make more space but we couldn't get all the land we needed due to the ancient lights regulations. The whole thing was built around the existing tier of the old stand, thereby fitting in with the club ethos of the time, namely "How much for cash?" A year or so later it was found to everyone's amazement that new seats on old terrace ruined the sightlines, so the bottom tier had to be relaid, at which point asbestos was found, causing a delay and reducing capacity at the start of 1995-96. Doug being penny wise, pound foolish. Who'da thought it?
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In many ways the name of that particular stand is very appropriate.
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My late father uncle and his father in law had season tickets in the old Witton Lane just to the left of the halfway line about a dozen rows back
As a kid I loved it
the strange thing I remember was the wooden flooring under the seats
Made a great noise when you stamped your feet
Dad cancelled his season ticket when it was renamed and never went back into the stand
Happy Days
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My mate and myself have always called it the Charlie Aitken Stand.
We told him once at a player of the year awards night. He was chuffed at the idea.
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Some great photos there, thanks.
I love the fact that the picture from the Holte End has a milk crate down towards the front on the tight side.
But the Trinity, labelled as “The West Stand” - tut tut.
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The lower tier is the old stand and the upper was squashed into the space allowed. By all accounts the upper tier is dire and one of the poorest away ends going.
When I'm up there I always like sitting in the corner by the control box, get a brilliant cross view of the Holte filling up and then celebrating when a goal is scored.
For a newish build the concourse is very tight when it's busy so can imagine that's a main complaint of the away fans.
Probably already been covered but wasn't there some asbestos issue which meant the lower tier had to be redone just after it opened?
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In many ways the name of that particular stand is very appropriate.
what? Tight-arsed?
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Witton Upper is fine.The view is great, but the concourse is tight and the food/drink thingys are not very good.
I’ve only been in the upper twice, most recently the Albion game last month, but I found the leg room to be fine. Agree 100% with the lack of Concourse space though.
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Sat in the Upper once. The amount of leg room was dire.
The concourses are dangerously cramped upstairs.
I've been up in there a couple of times this season and I must admit I wondered how safe it would be in an emergency. So claustrophobic, especially at HT.
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Brilliant old pics 👌. I remember my dad taking me to a wba game in upper north on the day it opened.... Alex cropley horrifically had his leg broken that day. Could be heard all around the ground.
Was that as long ago as mid to late 70’s ?
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It is a poor stand but the real contentious build was the Trinity Road Stand. It was in the early days of either this site or the old mailing list and people really fell out. The Trinity Road Stand is a stunning stand and had it been just built as new, replacing say a stand like they had/have at the Hawthorns or The Sty it would have been fine, but because we knocked down our iconic external facade to build it people went mad.
I was called a man ‘without a soul’ at the time by someone because I described the stand as just a viewing platform as I was more interesting in the view of the pitch rather than the view from Aston Park😀.
All good stuff really.
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I remember watching Rod Stewarts gig from the North Stand in the summer of '95 and the whole bottom tier of the Witton Lane had been removed making it look rather incongruous, the road crew had used the space to store all the empty flight cases.
As for the Trinity Road stand, like many, I consider the way it was demolished as an act of vandalism. It was much more than a viewing platform. It defined our club, it had style and panache, told you that within lay an organisation that wasn't just an ordinary football club, that set the pace and standard in the fledgling days of league football in Britain, it demonstrated pride, attention to detail and an overwhelming sense that something very special lay behind the mosaic's, sweeping stairs and stained glass windows. Topped off with that beautiful gable, it was designed and built by the foremost architect of the time, Archibald Leitch. At Glasgow Rangers they took this into account when they rebuilt their main stand, at Villa Park it was dismissed with little thought.
And talking of little, wasn't it Brian Little who stated that as he approached the ground and caught sight of the Trinity Road Stand that he made his mind up that this was the club for him?
I may be romancing it a bit but sometimes our game needs a little romance and we lost some of that to the bulldozers as they ground that history into the dust.
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I have a certain fondness for the Witton side as I sat there from my first game in September 1966 up until the end of season 68/69.
The only things I remember from my first game is Jack Charlton at the back for Leeds (we won 3-0) and the smell of stale tobacco and bovril beneath the stand.
At the time it was only known as the Witton Lane stand, unsurprisingly it was never called the Norman Smith stand nor previously called the Bruce Normansell stand. When Doug finally got his hands on his ultimate prize, someone on this site suggested calling it the Sir Witton Lane stand.
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Some great photos there, thanks.
I love the fact that the picture from the Holte End has a milk crate down towards the front on the tight side.
But the Trinity, labelled as “The West Stand” - tut tut.
My earliest days on the Holte in the late seventies and early eighties were spent perched all game on a claret Aston Manor beer crate. I must ask my old man what happened to it. Knowing him it will still be knocking around in the loft, garage or shed.
For years afterwards as I got older the lads we always stood with would occasionally ask "Where's your crate"? I was getting a bit fed up of hearing that same old line by the time I was eighteen!
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I know it only an honourary position, but has the club thought about a new Club President ?
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My first match as a nipper was in the Witton, late 70s vs the Boggies. Same here, remember the smoke. Also, the vivid images of the back of the Trinity being lit up by the lighting of ciggies
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Every time I look at the entrance to the current Trinity Road stand there is a pang of sadness. From the outside, even it it was replacing a run of the mill stand, it's terrible, but this is magnified a million times by the quality and uniqueness of what it did replace.
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Witton Upper is fine.The view is great, but the concourse is tight and the food/drink thingys are not very good.
Exactly right - have had season ticket on second row of upper tier for about 12/13 years having previously been in the Holte for many years - love the view where I am but don’t use the food outlets unless there an hour before game & would have to be desperate to use the loo/concourse at half time
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P8 Season ticket holder and its good value for us. The view is excellent and the astmoshphere can be good due to the proximity to the away fans, although for the derby matches you get some idiots in the seats in the next block looking to offer out away fans (some must be on coke the state they are in).
The concourse is a little cramped but compared to the North Stand you can actually swing a cat in there.
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The arch penny pincher oversaw the Witton Lane project like you would an extension on your house. Although we do have two fantastic stands to thank him for. I've never understood how we ended up with the situation where the Holte meets the Doug at totally different angles resulting in a load of seats in the Holte that can't be sold. Does anyone know the reason for this?
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Because Doug buggered up the rebuild... i think they lost a few hundred seats too.
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The arch penny pincher oversaw the Witton Lane project like you would an extension on your house.
Funnily enough I remember seeing extension work being done at his house in Sutton around the same time by the same contractors. I'm sure everything was done absolutely correctly in terms of seperate invoicing for each project.
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When we are all conquering the Prem and Europe once again, I'd like to see the Witton rebuilt along with the equally dreadful North Stand.
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Sat in the upper once at a 1-0 against Spurs. Think Angel scored in first few mins and the rest of the game was shit. I thought the stand was shit and I haven't sat their since.
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If we're promoted and if we stay up, the North will go.
Two big ifs. Although the former has shrunk somewhat in recent weeks.
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Have had my season ticket in the upper witton for best part of 20 years in various seats, currently in P2 in line with the goal line, I love it, great view and on the rare occasion there is a good atmosphere I get the noise from the Holte. The concourse is rubbish, but the beer and food on offer is equally rubbish
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Let's be honest, the beer, food and service throughout VP is garbage and has been for years.
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Let's be honest, the beer, food and service throughout VP is garbage and has been for years.
Have you tried the Balti pies? Perhaps they may change your mind, really tasty
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Have had my season ticket in the upper witton for best part of 20 years in various seats, currently in P2 in line with the goal line, I love it, great view and on the rare occasion there is a good atmosphere I get the noise from the Holte. The concourse is rubbish, but the beer and food on offer is equally rubbish
Always wondered why people choose to sit in the corners. I was there for the Swansea cup game and it's not for me.
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Every time I look at the entrance to the current Trinity Road stand there is a pang of sadness. From the outside, even it it was replacing a run of the mill stand, it's terrible, but this is magnified a million times by the quality and uniqueness of what it did replace.
I don't think the entrance looks that bad (compared to North at least). Like the glass facade so when walking up to the Upper tier I can glance and see the fans streaming down Trinity road towards the game. Also looks good at night lit up.
Of course it's no Old Trinity but at the very least you've got the front of the Holte that is a small nod to that. Probably part of the muddled Ellis era thinking but I don't get why the Holte End was rebuilt with the brick front intact (if it was there with the old stand) yet the Trinity was just totally demolished.
As said above Rangers would be very good example of incoporating a new modern stand into old facade.
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The Holte was demolished, the facade was added a decade or so ago.
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Every time I look at the entrance to the current Trinity Road stand there is a pang of sadness. From the outside, even it it was replacing a run of the mill stand, it's terrible, but this is magnified a million times by the quality and uniqueness of what it did replace.
I don't think the entrance looks that bad (compared to North at least). Like the glass facade so when walking up to the Upper tier I can glance and see the fans streaming down Trinity road towards the game. Also looks good at night lit up.
Of course it's no Old Trinity but at the very least you've got the front of the Holte that is a small nod to that. Probably part of the muddled Ellis era thinking but I don't get why the Holte End was rebuilt with the brick front intact (if it was there with the old stand) yet the Trinity was just totally demolished.
As said above Rangers would be very good example of incoporating a new modern stand into old facade.
The old Holte was completely demolished. The exterior at the back was an imposing vertical wall. No turnstiles as they were down the sides on Trinity rd and Witton Lane. I've always thought that the brick facade on the new Holte with its brick built steps and extravagant finishing touches (compared to todays preferred metal cladding) is a nod to the much loved old Trinity rd entrance. Who knows maybe even an ackowledgement from Deadly that he was guilty of wanton vandalism in knocking down such an architectural gem without consultation to the supporters.
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Pretty sure it was under Lerner that the Holte facade was done.
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It was finished under Lerner - the mosaics and windows were his doing, but the actual structure was there (unfinished) when it was built.
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Pretty sure I remember the old Holte having a new roof fitted and covered in dark panels with red lines?
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Have had my season ticket in the upper witton for best part of 20 years in various seats, currently in P2 in line with the goal line, I love it, great view and on the rare occasion there is a good atmosphere I get the noise from the Holte. The concourse is rubbish, but the beer and food on offer is equally rubbish
Always wondered why people choose to sit in the corners. I was there for the Swansea cup game and it's not for me.
Same here. On the other hand, if everybody was the same, it would be much more difficult to sit where I prefer due to supply and demand.
I used to stand at the back of old Holte End in my youth, but moved on to to the middle of the Upper Trinity and then to P6 in the upper Witton Lane where, as other posters have pointed out, the view is excellent but the facilities are crap. I used to go the Lions Club suite at half time for many years, but now I just bring a flask of cognac.
The bogs in the concourse are something to behold, and I am amazed that nobody has broken their arse on the skiddy surfaces. There is more traction on the steepest Malvern Hill after weeks of freezing rain in February.
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Pretty sure I remember the old Holte having a new roof fitted and covered in dark panels with red lines?
Yes those famous Villa colours of brown and red (cheap).
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Form memory, Witton Lane was diverted a bit to make more space but we couldn't get all the land we needed due to the ancient lights regulations. The whole thing was built around the existing tier of the old stand, thereby fitting in with the club ethos of the time, namely "How much for cash?" A year or so later it was found to everyone's amazement that new seats on old terrace ruined the sightlines, so the bottom tier had to be relaid, at which point asbestos was found, causing a delay and reducing capacity at the start of 1995-96. Doug being penny wise, pound foolish. Who'da thought it?
What are/were the ancient lights regulations please Dave
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Would it be "light", rather than "lights"? Had the stand gone even further back and then skywards, it could have placed some Holte & Station Roads properties into sunless shadow during winter months.
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Would it be "light", rather than "lights"? Had the stand gone even further back and then skywards, it could have placed some Holte & Station Roads properties into sunless shadow during winter months.
They could have been attractive residences for noses.
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Form memory, Witton Lane was diverted a bit to make more space but we couldn't get all the land we needed due to the ancient lights regulations. The whole thing was built around the existing tier of the old stand, thereby fitting in with the club ethos of the time, namely "How much for cash?" A year or so later it was found to everyone's amazement that new seats on old terrace ruined the sightlines, so the bottom tier had to be relaid, at which point asbestos was found, causing a delay and reducing capacity at the start of 1995-96. Doug being penny wise, pound foolish. Who'da thought it?
What are/were the ancient lights regulations please Dave
According to a bit of Googling, if a window has enjoyed natural sunlight for twenty years nothing can be built that blocks out the light. It might also have helped if we hadn't been virtually at war with the locals for years.
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With Spuds getting their nearest tube station renamed ahead of the Grand Opening of The Best Stadium in the World, is it time to ask again for Witton station to be renamed Villa Park?
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Sat in the upper once at a 1-0 against Spurs. Think Angel scored in first few mins and the rest of the game was shit. I thought the stand was shit and I haven't sat their since.
its funny you say that- I have a similar story. Sat in the top tier, near the halfway line, great seat, for a night match against Leeds. We got tonked 3 or 4 nil. Only other time I’ve seen us worse at VP was probably the loss against arsenal that called time for one of our managers (can never remember which one - take your pick from Ron, Brian, or JG).
I never went in the Witton Lane ever again after that Leeds match.
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Let's be honest, the beer, food and service throughout VP is garbage and has been for years.
Have you tried the Balti pies? Perhaps they may change your mind, really tasty
they used to do a great chip batch in the Holte as well. Doused in vinegar it would form the perfect stomach lining.
Cue debate about batch/ cob/ roll correct terminology...😄
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Every time I look at the entrance to the current Trinity Road stand there is a pang of sadness. From the outside, even it it was replacing a run of the mill stand, it's terrible, but this is magnified a million times by the quality and uniqueness of what it did replace.
I don't think the entrance looks that bad (compared to North at least). Like the glass facade so when walking up to the Upper tier I can glance and see the fans streaming down Trinity road towards the game. Also looks good at night lit up.
Of course it's no Old Trinity but at the very least you've got the front of the Holte that is a small nod to that. Probably part of the muddled Ellis era thinking but I don't get why the Holte End was rebuilt with the brick front intact (if it was there with the old stand) yet the Trinity was just totally demolished.
As said above Rangers would be very good example of incoporating a new modern stand into old facade.
The old Holte was completely demolished. The exterior at the back was an imposing vertical wall. No turnstiles as they were down the sides on Trinity rd and Witton Lane. I've always thought that the brick facade on the new Holte with its brick built steps and extravagant finishing touches (compared to todays preferred metal cladding) is a nod to the much loved old Trinity rd entrance. Who knows maybe even an ackowledgement from Deadly that he was guilty of wanton vandalism in knocking down such an architectural gem without consultation to the supporters.
nice sentiment, but the new holte was built prior to the demolition (by several years) of the old trinity. Unless maybe you are suggesting he knew what he was going to do with the trinity rd and compensated in advance with the Holte?
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Form memory, Witton Lane was diverted a bit to make more space but we couldn't get all the land we needed due to the ancient lights regulations. The whole thing was built around the existing tier of the old stand, thereby fitting in with the club ethos of the time, namely "How much for cash?" A year or so later it was found to everyone's amazement that new seats on old terrace ruined the sightlines, so the bottom tier had to be relaid, at which point asbestos was found, causing a delay and reducing capacity at the start of 1995-96. Doug being penny wise, pound foolish. Who'da thought it?
What are/were the ancient lights regulations please Dave
According to a bit of Googling, if a window has enjoyed natural sunlight for twenty years nothing can be built that blocks out the light. It might also have helped if we hadn't been virtually at war with the locals for years.
i think that is why those houses were demolished and replaced with the small park. I think the club had to acquire them in order to add the second tier.
Liverpool had a similar issue with their plans for redeveloping anfield, but on a much bigger scale. The locals were fucked around for years by LFC and the club didn’t come out of it in a good light at all.
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nice sentiment, but the new holte was built prior to the demolition (by several years) of the old trinity. Unless maybe you are suggesting he knew what he was going to do with the trinity rd and compensated in advance with the Holte?
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The Holte was built to complement the Trinity. Which was knocked down five years later.
We built three stands in seven years, none of them with any sort of idea how they would fit in with what we already had or were going to have. It was a total lack of long-term planning that summed up Villa at the time.
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It started off as the old stand - with exits and entrances in place from what was probably the 1897 original stand but the season after the new stand opened the lower tier was re-built with the layout we have today.
The links below show the stand under construction with the new seats bolted onto the original profile.
https://www.google.com/search?q=witton+lane+stand+1994&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB829GB829&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy08yRsZHhAhVlo3EKHWQXBEAQ_AUIDigB&biw=1536&bih=722#imgrc=BfKPrvhQE1ZgWM:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB829GB829&biw=1536&bih=722&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=Z4ySXIqJF4y0UvLFm7AM&q=witton+lane+stnad+1945&oq=witton+lane+stnad+1945&gs_l=img.3...2198.2737..3209...0.0..0.60.330.6......1....1..gws-wiz-img.D_Hv6daCLwk#imgrc=-Zixh5lZ7zY_cM:
https://pixels.com/featured/aston-villa-villa-park-witton-lane-stand-1-april-1993-legendary-football-grounds.html
That make sense?
Great link thanks 👍it highlights something thats always bugged me about VP. When they rebuilt the Holte just how did they make such a hash of connecting it to the Witton Lane? Its such a mish mash of shapes and angles it really messes with my ocd !
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Probably because the Witton was built while the Holte was terracing so it was built to fit in with that, as Dave says, a lack of long term thinking.
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The smart thing to have done over the past 30 years would have been to accomodate a move of the ground of 20/30 metres into the space of the North Stand car park. That would have been a long term plan, make the most of the land we own and sort out the pinch point of Trinity Road and Witton Lane.
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I like your thinking LV. But I think Wolves tried something similar in the 80s and not sure it really worked out for them 😂
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nice sentiment, but the new holte was built prior to the demolition (by several years) of the old trinity. Unless maybe you are suggesting he knew what he was going to do with the trinity rd and compensated in advance with the Holte?
The Holte was built to complement the Trinity. Which was knocked down five years later.
We built three stands in seven years, none of them with any sort of idea how they would fit in with what we already had or were going to have. It was a total lack of long-term planning that summed up Villa at the time.
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I agree with you about the planning , but I think some of the grounds charm is the mis match of the stands. I would like us to sort out the exterior of Trinity with maybe some pics of Villa greats maybe
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Probably because the Witton was built while the Holte was terracing so it was built to fit in with that, as Dave says, a lack of long term thinking.
There was nothing to stop them profiling the rebuilt lower Holte to conjoin neatly with the Witton Lane. Nothing that is but a penny pinching out of touch old man with the final say on every VP decision. Like you say. Lack of planning.
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There can be no finer epitaph for Doug than the stand that bears his name as it was poorly constructed, lacked foresight and didn’t quite fit in with its surroundings.
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There can be no finer epitaph for Doug than the stand that bears his name as it was poorly constructed, lacked foresight and didn’t quite fit in with its surroundings.
And it was a health hazard.
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My first season ticket was as a 13 year old in the Witton Lane Stand - Door O, Row A but I cant remember my seat number.
Right in line with the 18 yard box, Holte End side.
I used to love it in their. It had it's own smell (from the catering and the dust off the old concrete stairways up to the seats)
Happy, happy days
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There can be no finer epitaph for Doug than the stand that bears his name as it was poorly constructed, lacked foresight and didn’t quite fit in with its surroundings.
And yet i would imagine we would all jump at the chance to relive those days of him in charge now. Profitable, well run,regularly in Europe and with the odd trophy thrown in.
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There can be no finer epitaph for Doug than the stand that bears his name as it was poorly constructed, lacked foresight and didn’t quite fit in with its surroundings.
And yet i would imagine we would all jump at the chance to relive those days of him in charge now. Profitable, well run,regularly in Europe and with the odd trophy thrown in.
Your opening up a whole nother debate with that comment. Personally i'll never be yearning for the days of Deadly Doug. We could of achieved so much more in my view.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47687411
The above is a link to a video showing the new White Hart Lane. Not worth it's own thread, but could have some relevance to the general Villa Park discussions. About 00.08 seconds in. Is that safe standing via the back door?
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Fair play to Spuds.
That stadium looks pretty special.
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Looks very nice and facilities look great. I see they're claiming the South stand as holding 17,500 but it wraps around the sides so not a true "end" in my view although it is very impressive.
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I like the fact that Spurs have looked beyond the traditional design that has been so fashionable of late and broken those lines with a single tier end. I believe the naming rights are up for grabs which is a shame.
Although this new stadium looks stunning, for me football grounds are not just about how they look and operate but how they echo with history. It will happen eventually with all these new stadia as the years roll by but nothing beats a ground, on it's original site, that give you goose bumps as you feel the past all around. From the streets and approaches, the pubs and shops, into the stands and that view of something a simple as a patch of grass that has played host to so many up's and downs (well, downs in the case of Small Heath). Older grounds developed over time leading to a hotch potch of stands and designs that gave grounds their own unique character. Paddocks, Spion Kops, enclosures, pop sides, "ends", turnstiles within houses, alleyway access, stairwells over gardens and landmark floodlight pylons that helped many a lost fan find a ground.
The sleek lines and infinitely better facilities mean that while we have gained better H+S and sightlines we have lost something that formed part of my early love affair with football. The thrill of a night game at Highbury, the back streets of Moss Side suddenly giving way to Maine Road, the two ends at the Dell almost collapsing into the corners and the breathtaking approach down Trinity Road to our own dear Villa Park. Maybe one day people will talk in these terms about Spurs new ground or even Brighton's but even the most vivid imagination couldn't conjure up affection for Stoke's ground, whatever it is called, or the grim construction in Middlesbrough.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47687411
The above is a link to a video showing the new White Hart Lane. Not worth it's own thread, but could have some relevance to the general Villa Park discussions. About 00.08 seconds in. Is that safe standing via the back door?
Looks like safe standing to me but it’s not been mentioned in any of the media coverage as far as I’m aware. Fairplay to them and hope it paves the way for other clubs to follow suit.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47687411
The above is a link to a video showing the new White Hart Lane. Not worth it's own thread, but could have some relevance to the general Villa Park discussions. About 00.08 seconds in. Is that safe standing via the back door?
Looks like safe standing to me but it’s not been mentioned in any of the media coverage as far as I’m aware. Fairplay to them and hope it paves the way for other clubs to follow suit.
I read somewhere that they'd install rails in some areas in anticipation of safe standing.
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Even as someone who probably cuts Doug more slack than most I have never agreed with the fact it is called the Doug Ellis stand. A decision that was apparently nothing to do with Doug and came as a total surprise to him when sprung on him as a suggestion at a board meeting which he humbly went along with as it was clearly the will of the people. Those people who he employed. I can think of a few names I would have preferred the stand to have been named after but after his long connection with the club and his passing away we would look quite spiteful if we renamed it now.
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Even as someone who probably cuts Doug more slack than most I have never agreed with the fact it is called the Doug Ellis stand. A decision that was apparently nothing to do with Doug and came as a total surprise to him when sprung on him as a suggestion at a board meeting which he humbly went along with as it was clearly the will of the people. Those people who he employed. I can think of a few names I would have preferred the stand to have been named after but after his long connection with the club and his passing away we would look quite spiteful if we renamed it now.
I would like to see a Ron Saunders way leading to the Tony Barton Stand when they finally upgrade it
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Even as someone who probably cuts Doug more slack than most I have never agreed with the fact it is called the Doug Ellis stand. A decision that was apparently nothing to do with Doug and came as a total surprise to him when sprung on him as a suggestion at a board meeting which he humbly went along with as it was clearly the will of the people. Those people who he employed. I can think of a few names I would have preferred the stand to have been named after but after his long connection with the club and his passing away we would look quite spiteful if we renamed it now.
I would like to see a Ron Saunders way leading to the Tony Barton Stand when they finally upgrade it
I'm not a fan of naming stands after individuals unless it's something that unites the fans 100% eg: The Sir Alex Ferguson Stand & The Bobby Moore Stand but that really isn't the case with the DE stand. Maybe The Doug Ellis Way? Suggestions anyone?
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I do wonder what else can be done in the current setting given the number of homes close by and the sheer chaos it caused to the local communities the last time we redeveloped? I imagine there would be opposition to us engaging in a significant project. I no longer know the area well enough but is a move close by even possible and if so would it be considered and/or supported?
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The main issue is the North stand. Plenty of room behind there but as people have stated, some long term bigger view is needed, not just a stand at a time. The Witton not far behind to be re-developed.
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Even as someone who probably cuts Doug more slack than most I have never agreed with the fact it is called the Doug Ellis stand. A decision that was apparently nothing to do with Doug and came as a total surprise to him when sprung on him as a suggestion at a board meeting which he humbly went along with as it was clearly the will of the people. Those people who he employed. I can think of a few names I would have preferred the stand to have been named after but after his long connection with the club and his passing away we would look quite spiteful if we renamed it now.
I would like to see a Ron Saunders way leading to the Tony Barton Stand when they finally upgrade it
I would like to see it re-named to acknowledge our greatest moment as a collective triumph: the Rotterdam Stand or the 1982 Stand
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I do wonder what else can be done in the current setting given the number of homes close by and the sheer chaos it caused to the local communities the last time we redeveloped? I imagine there would be opposition to us engaging in a significant project. I no longer know the area well enough but is a move close by even possible and if so would it be considered and/or supported?
The one bright spot in this potential problem is that we work better with the local community now. When we were doing the other three stands the club’s attitude was embarrassing.
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Form memory, Witton Lane was diverted a bit to make more space but we couldn't get all the land we needed due to the ancient lights regulations. The whole thing was built around the existing tier of the old stand, thereby fitting in with the club ethos of the time, namely "How much for cash?" A year or so later it was found to everyone's amazement that new seats on old terrace ruined the sightlines, so the bottom tier had to be relaid, at which point asbestos was found, causing a delay and reducing capacity at the start of 1995-96. Doug being penny wise, pound foolish. Who'da thought it?
What are/were the ancient lights regulations please Dave
According to a bit of Googling, if a window has enjoyed natural sunlight for twenty years nothing can be built that blocks out the light. It might also have helped if we hadn't been virtually at war with the locals for years.
thanks mate, I didn't know that.
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That won't impact the Boggies then as they been in our shadow for years
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The houses in Witton Lane have now disappeared replaced by the nice garden. We could buy that land and do a Trinity road type of rebuild I suppose?
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The houses in Witton Lane have now disappeared replaced by the nice garden. We could buy that land and do a Trinity road type of rebuild I suppose?
See the bit above about light. And I think, but I'm not certain, that any increase in capacity is dependent on better transport links.
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and bus stops, and train line, and regeneration of the locality, and road access and parking. not to mention we would need another 100 or so extra matchday stewards that ain't easy to oget
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The houses in Witton Lane have now disappeared replaced by the nice garden. We could buy that land and do a Trinity road type of rebuild I suppose?
See the bit above about light. And I think, but I'm not certain, that any increase in capacity is dependent on better transport links.
Which is a bit ironic when you consider they are not really increasing the capacity. Just reinstating it back to what it used to be not that many years ago.
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We need a proper musuem in a redeveloped North, Wolves put one in their rebuild a few years back.
Would obviously lose all the parking spaces pushing the stand back but most new builds put in underground car parks now so that seems a decent solution.
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The houses in Witton Lane have now disappeared replaced by the nice garden. We could buy that land and do a Trinity road type of rebuild I suppose?
See the bit above about light. And I think, but I'm not certain, that any increase in capacity is dependent on better transport links.
Which is a bit ironic when you consider they are not really increasing the capacity. Just reinstating it back to what it used to be not that many years ago.
In a different world when most people either walked to the ground or got the bus.
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The main issue is the North stand. Plenty of room behind there but as people have stated, some long term bigger view is needed, not just a stand at a time. The Witton not far behind to be re-developed.
The end behind the one of the goals in Tottenham's new stand looks pretty impressive. Would like to see the North Stand redeveloped into something like that.
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I like the fact that Spurs have looked beyond the traditional design that has been so fashionable of late and broken those lines with a single tier end. I believe the naming rights are up for grabs which is a shame.
Although this new stadium looks stunning, for me football grounds are not just about how they look and operate but how they echo with history. It will happen eventually with all these new stadia as the years roll by but nothing beats a ground, on it's original site, that give you goose bumps as you feel the past all around. From the streets and approaches, the pubs and shops, into the stands and that view of something a simple as a patch of grass that has played host to so many up's and downs (well, downs in the case of Small Heath). Older grounds developed over time leading to a hotch potch of stands and designs that gave grounds their own unique character. Paddocks, Spion Kops, enclosures, pop sides, "ends", turnstiles within houses, alleyway access, stairwells over gardens and landmark floodlight pylons that helped many a lost fan find a ground.
The sleek lines and infinitely better facilities mean that while we have gained better H+S and sightlines we have lost something that formed part of my early love affair with football. The thrill of a night game at Highbury, the back streets of Moss Side suddenly giving way to Maine Road, the two ends at the Dell almost collapsing into the corners and the breathtaking approach down Trinity Road to our own dear Villa Park. Maybe one day people will talk in these terms about Spurs new ground or even Brighton's but even the most vivid imagination couldn't conjure up affection for Stoke's ground, whatever it is called, or the grim construction in Middlesbrough.
great post Nev. always would get a tingle in my bones walking under the expressway, smelling the hotdogs and seeing the old AV floodlights glaring, on the way to a midweek match at VP. Nothing can ever top that, for me.
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The Jumbo hotdogs ‘they say they’re nice!’ I think the guy is a cov fan. Saw him at Highfield Rd once. He used to be parked up by the ‘Florida Suite’ next to the Holte pub! Happy times.
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I like the fact that Spurs have looked beyond the traditional design that has been so fashionable of late and broken those lines with a single tier end. I believe the naming rights are up for grabs which is a shame.
Although this new stadium looks stunning, for me football grounds are not just about how they look and operate but how they echo with history. It will happen eventually with all these new stadia as the years roll by but nothing beats a ground, on it's original site, that give you goose bumps as you feel the past all around. From the streets and approaches, the pubs and shops, into the stands and that view of something a simple as a patch of grass that has played host to so many up's and downs (well, downs in the case of Small Heath). Older grounds developed over time leading to a hotch potch of stands and designs that gave grounds their own unique character. Paddocks, Spion Kops, enclosures, pop sides, "ends", turnstiles within houses, alleyway access, stairwells over gardens and landmark floodlight pylons that helped many a lost fan find a ground.
The sleek lines and infinitely better facilities mean that while we have gained better H+S and sightlines we have lost something that formed part of my early love affair with football. The thrill of a night game at Highbury, the back streets of Moss Side suddenly giving way to Maine Road, the two ends at the Dell almost collapsing into the corners and the breathtaking approach down Trinity Road to our own dear Villa Park. Maybe one day people will talk in these terms about Spurs new ground or even Brighton's but even the most vivid imagination couldn't conjure up affection for Stoke's ground, whatever it is called, or the grim construction in Middlesbrough.
great post Nev. always would get a tingle in my bones walking under the expressway, smelling the hotdogs and seeing the old AV floodlights glaring, on the way to a midweek match at VP. Nothing can ever top that, for me.
Think Simon Inglis would agree with this.