Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Risso on February 13, 2019, 09:51:20 PM
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Another truly dismal performance.
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Bizarrely I thought we were going to nick that at the end, but no this is Aston Villa
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I feel sad
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For seemingly the two hundredth game in a row, diabolical. My annoyance about that winner only matched by the knowledge there are three months left of the season and we can't rage-quit to get it out of the way.
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Got what we deserved.
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Special praise for the hologram tonight.
Produced the square root of absolutely fuck all, apart from bottling two 50/50s.
Can't wait for the season to be done.
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Awful, awful, awful.
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Fucking embarrassing. All the stuff about Dean needing his own players, unless it improves dramatically and fast he will never get the chance. Dreadful.
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With the loan players we are going to lose and with the exception of Grealish, Kallinic, and McGinn, I am really struggling to convince my self that ANY of the fuckers in that squad tonight should still be here next season.
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Slow, ponderous, lethargic.
As bad as we were, there was 3 golden opportunities in that game. We missed 2, they scored theres.
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Season is over.
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Just before Xmas we had played WBA off there own park, and smashed Derby and Middlesbrough away, 2 months later we look like the worst group of footballers ever assembled. Madness
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Complete and utter bollocks typified by Conor fucking Hourihane.
He MUST be dropped for the boggies game, or I’m gonna quickly lose faith in Smith.
Why can we all see it, yet a supposed astute modern manager keeps picking him week in, week out?!
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With the loan players we are going to lose and with the exception of Grealish, Kallinic, and McGinn, I am really struggling to convince my self that ANY of the fuckers in that squad tonight should still be here next season.
I suspect they will all be gone after this
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Another Classic to add to the ever growing pile of pathetic games 1 win in 13 now. No doubt Smith will still be defended god knows why given what we are seeing because there isn't even a glimmer of hope of better things to come.
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A ghastly spectacle to behold.
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Special praise for the hologram tonight.
Produced the square root of absolutely fuck all, apart from bottling two 50/50s.
Can't wait for the season to be done.
If I'd have bottled the chances he did at Tuesday night 5 aside, I'd never have heard the last of it. Absolute fucking shithouse.
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
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After 50 years of going I have finally had enough. Fuck off Villa you are shit. You have been shit for years and you will be shit for years to come so just fuck off. I have had enough.
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What a truly shit squad. Mings, Abraham, McGinn and Grealish aside every single one is either shit or a coward or both.
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Special praise for the hologram tonight.
Produced the square root of absolutely fuck all, apart from bottling two 50/50s.
Can't wait for the season to be done.
I saw that , totally unforgivable.
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Dreadful.
I’m sick of watching these woeful, gutless and overpaid players.
The only decent transfer is Mings and he may as well just leave now.
Maupay, 2 million in 2017. It makes me want to laugh.
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I watched 5 minutes and volunteered to go to the supermarket. That was followed by a 20 minute queue in the pharmacy. I think I made the right decision. 6 shots, 3 on target. Barcelona must be shitting themselves.
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Mr Smith your “is a Villa fan” safety blanket has expired.
Fix it or go.
Is Hause an actual footballer? Every time he got the ball he shit himself.
Midfield were shocking, every one of them.
Albert Adomah, please stop picking him.
Kodjia couldn’t even be arsed to run when he came on.
Still I beat the rush back to the station.
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
No, do you?
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Why are you letting us down so much....not that you seem to give a shit
All of you
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Special praise for the hologram tonight.
Produced the square root of absolutely fuck all, apart from bottling two 50/50s.
Can't wait for the season to be done.
Since Jack got injured Smith has built his midfield on this this excuse for a footballer.
It is a monumental fuck up.
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Special praise for the hologram tonight.
Produced the square root of absolutely fuck all, apart from bottling two 50/50s.
Can't wait for the season to be done.
He was shite and needs to be dropped, no worse than McGinn tonight though.
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
No, do you?
Bizarre.
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Can't understand what's happened to the team that won away at Boro and Derby and beat Blues with style and were unlucky not to win at West Brom? How has it gone wrong so badly?
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Lambert, Bruce, Smith - spot the difference.
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Just don't know what to say.
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Maupay = 2 million in 2017
Hogan = 12 million in 2017
Cant think why we are in such a mess can you?
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Really don't know where we are going as a club to be honest. Three years in this league and no nearer to getting out of it. Nine clubs have been promoted since we came down and all have been crap with the exception of Wolves and maybe Newcastle yet we still weren't good enough.
Yet another rebuild in the summer. Maybe yet another change of Manager depending on what happens in our remaining games.
Always feared we could be the new Leeds who have been down here for about 18 years.
I really wanted Dean Smith to 'the one' but the jury is still out as at the moment there has been precious little sign of any improvement.
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
No, do you?
No point. Whonis going to come and get any better out of that bunch of gutless underperformers?
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That's goodbye play offs, another shocking performance, but this time for the full 90 minutes. Next 6 matches Albion, Stoke, Derby, Blues, Forest and Boro, the way we're playing we might not get a point out that lot.
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where is the pressing ? the passing ? the pace ?
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Special praise for the hologram tonight.
Produced the square root of absolutely fuck all, apart from bottling two 50/50s.
Can't wait for the season to be done.
He was shite and needs to be dropped, no worse than McGinn tonight though.
Agreed, SJM was poor tonight, although probably completely knackered due to carrying No.14 week in, week out.
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Elmo receives the ball wide and runs it out of play, no player near him. He’s done it before, what’s going on in his head?
Hutton receives the ball after 5 complete passes going backwards. Boots the ball marginally forward for a throw in.
Just 2 incidents of play in a lot of incidents of play that shows this just isn’t good enough from individuals and team alike.
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Another piece of shit added to the turd cake being manufactured in the factory of sadness that is the great Aston Villa bake off fuck up.
This whole sorry mess has been going on for over ten bloody years now and I am struggling to see any light at the end of the tunnel.
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2 wins in 13. I want to believe in Deano but that tonight was as bad anything under wor potato.
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Sounded like Smith didn’t want to be interviewed there. And consequently sounded Bruce like. I really hope we give him a chance not least because the team played tonight was his team
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Sounded like Smith didn’t want to be interviewed there. And consequently sounded Bruce like. I really hope we give him a chance not least because the team played tonight was his team
I meant Brentford
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Another Classic to add to the ever growing pile of pathetic games 1 win in 13 now. No doubt Smith will still be defended god knows why given what we are seeing because there isn't even a glimmer of hope of better things to come.
It's 2 wins, why do you keep saying 1? It's shit either way but your complete inability to get a single stat right is bizarre.
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How long will the owners put up with this nonsense? I can see a more "sexy" foreign coach taking over in the summer.
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SHITE .... INCANDESCENT WITH RAGE
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We are rubbish.
Simply can't impose our game on any decent team in this league.
Feels like we're in a dead end as a club. Really shouldn't be like this coming to the end of the third season in the championship.
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
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I thought we actually defended OK tonight. It was the total lack of quality, guile, intelligence, creativity and pace going forward that was the problem.
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After 50 years of going I have finally had enough. Fuck off Villa you are shit. You have been shit for years and you will be shit for years to come so just fuck off. I have had enough.
7 or 8 years of total and utter rubbish. Players who don’t give a toss or plainly aren’t good enough
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
Evidence??? Please tell me there is a plan?
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I thought we actually defended OK tonight. It was the total lack of quality, guile, intelligence, creativity and pace going forward that was the problem.
Deluded..sorry but no one gets away with this one
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Elmo receives the ball wide and runs it out of play, no player near him. He’s done it before, what’s going on in his head?
Hutton receives the ball after 5 complete passes going backwards. Boots the ball marginally forward for a throw in.
Just 2 incidents of play in a lot of incidents of play that shows this just isn’t good enough from individuals and team alike.
If that is you're way of sauing that we look uncomfortable on the ball then I completely agree, nobody looks in control of the ball at any point. Theres a video of me running down a mountain when I was a kid, i stumbl and frantically trh to gain my balance as my legs got lower and lower and finally give way, then i go face first into the grass, fuck myself up and cry. The few seconds from stumbling to being planted in the grass is exactly how Hause looks when he has the ball at his feet.
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I thought we actually defended OK tonight. It was the total lack of quality, guile, intelligence, creativity and pace going forward that was the problem.
You missed some effort as well
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Results last night and tonight go our way and we turn in a performance like that...we didn't touch the ball for the first 10 mins of the game and that set the tempo for the rest of the game. Typically the last 5 mins we looked more threatening than we had all night and then we let one in.
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Another Classic to add to the ever growing pile of pathetic games 1 win in 13 now. No doubt Smith will still be defended god knows why given what we are seeing because there isn't even a glimmer of hope of better things to come.
Do fuck off. Nobody needs your fucking gloating and happiness that we lost and suggestion it would have been better under Bruce. It's because of that wanker we are still in this pissing league in the first place and he's left the club full of cloggers and shit players.
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
Evidence??? Please tell me there is a plan?
So change the Manager again?? Same players for a new Manager, same results.
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I thought we actually defended OK tonight. It was the total lack of quality, guile, intelligence, creativity and pace going forward that was the problem.
Deluded..sorry but no one gets away with this one
Sorry I think the same,it was like the Alamo and they got no respite at all, wave after wave of attack, there was nothing happening in front of them.
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I think we played OK at the back in that we looked solid while inviting pressure (with inevitable consequences). But then we played lumbering defend first fullbacks and Glenn Whelan so I’d have been surprised if we hadn’t looked solid.
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I thought the first half was just desperate. Don't know where to start
Actually thought we might go on and nick it in the last 20
The quality of passing and movement was just so, so bad. I'd say the players can't do it. But they were three months ago. I can't explain the level of drop off
I thought hause, hologram, el ghazi and green when he came on were just awful.
The level of rebuilding we need is scaring me to be honest. New CB,LB, at least 2 CMs, and an entire new front three
I really hope we've got some value for money signings lined up
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Why is it so fucking hard? :'(
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
No, do you?
Not at all.
He's got a squad that aren't up to it. That Grealish, Tuanzebe and a fit Chester make such a difference is a huge worry.
We need to change so many players.
Hutton was gash again, Elphick didn't cover himself in glory for the goal. McGinn is on his own. Whelan did well the other day but tonight? Hourihane is about as anonymous a midfielder as I've seen. Green, Elmo, Adomah, El Ghazi? All much of a much. i.e. Inconsistent and unable to play in any dangerous crosses.
What a mess of a squad. That's not Smith's remit, though coaching them is.
We're just so lightweight.
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
Evidence??? Please tell me there is a plan?
I think Aston Villa vs Brentford tonight was sufficient evidence to show the players he has inherited are a load of useless shite, and the players he left at Brentford can at least manage the basics like controlling a ball, passing to each other, moving into space and constructing an attack. The plan has to be to get rid of the majority of the squad and bring in young talented players that want to play football.
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Hey TV, we are all, I hope pissed off with this, and I for one feel sad, but at least lets stick it out together
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Another Classic to add to the ever growing pile of pathetic games 1 win in 13 now. No doubt Smith will still be defended god knows why given what we are seeing because there isn't even a glimmer of hope of better things to come.
Do fuck off. Nobody needs your fucking gloating and happiness that we lost and suggestion it would have been better under Bruce. It's because of that wanker we are still in this pissing league in the first place and he's left the club full of cloggers and shit players.
Have to agree that 1 win in 13 is unacceptable
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I've said it before, but Smith makes a rod for his own back by picking the same shit players week in, week out. People will ask; 'who could he pick instead?' But he's had months to see they're shit, to watch them consistently underperform, yet hasn't replaced them. More effort was needed during January. It was a pathetic window.
Lose to West Brom, and even worse, Blues, and it'll be a horrible atmosphere.
I don't particularly like Smith, nor the crap tactics he insists on playing and the gormless interviews I keep hearing.
Crap.
Sort it out.
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I thought whelan and mcginn were awful first half but did start to improve when we pressed. Quality of passing was still poor
Hourihane was just awful all game
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You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
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After 50 years of going I have finally had enough. Fuck off Villa you are shit. You have been shit for years and you will be shit for years to come so just fuck off. I have had enough.
My feelings exactly. Now get a good nights sleep then take your mind off it following Brexit and the antics of Trump for a couple of days. Come Saturday for no logical reason right now we will be up for it to beat the baggies. It's a funny old game.
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All the boxes ticked tonight. Lose to Brentford. Injury time goal. Dirty horrible player gets winner. Season can't end soon enough. Dreading Saturday.
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You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
Yes you can, he had great performances at Bro, WBA etc...where has that gone?
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You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
But you can blame him for not improving us one iota
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
Evidence??? Please tell me there is a plan?
Brentford pissed all over us yet again with the team Dean Smith assembled playing a style of football that he imprinted into the whole club. All for a fraction of the money we have spunked over 3 years. I'd call that decent evidence for giving him time to sort out our ageing ,unbalanced squad.
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After 50 years of going I have finally had enough. Fuck off Villa you are shit. You have been shit for years and you will be shit for years to come so just fuck off. I have had enough.
My feelings exactly. Now get a good nights sleep then take your mind off it following Brexit and the antics of Trump for a couple of days. Come Saturday for no logical reason right now we will be up for it to beat the baggies. It's a funny old game.
this UTV
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For seemingly the two hundredth game in a row, diabolical. My annoyance about that winner only matched by the knowledge there are three months left of the season and we can't rage-quit to get it out of the way.
2nd best for most of the game and cant say Brentford didnt deserve it. So much for the 'team spirit'.
To your point, there's actually about 3 weeks left of this season once we've played Albion and Blose. That's where we are.
The owners now need to plan for next year down here again with absolute certainty.
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Weirdly by having that good spell he has made himself look worse because he’s highlighted his inability to cope with the loss of 2 players.
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Another Classic to add to the ever growing pile of pathetic games 1 win in 13 now. No doubt Smith will still be defended god knows why given what we are seeing because there isn't even a glimmer of hope of better things to come.
Do fuck off. Nobody needs your fucking gloating and happiness that we lost and suggestion it would have been better under Bruce. It's because of that wanker we are still in this pissing league in the first place and he's left the club full of cloggers and shit players.
Have to agree that 1 win in 13 is unacceptable
Nobody is saying it is. Absolutely not one person. But the last thing I need to hear from is a Bruce apologist. That fat fuck left us in the fucking shit with his obsession with shit, slow, old players who are geared to playing the lump it long game. What you saw tonight is a Brentford side that Dean Smith created. I hope that with the right investment and time we can become a better version of that.
Dean Smith has made mistakes and I won't back him up 100% on all of the choices he's made. He deserves criticism and being a Villa fan should not protect him from that. But the last thing I am going to do is compare him to the fucking dinosaur we had for the previous 2 years who nearly helped us go under.
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
No, do you?
Not at all.
He's got a squad that aren't up to it. That Grealish, Tuanzebe and a fit Chester make such a difference is a huge worry.
We need to change so many players.
Hutton was gash again, Elphick didn't cover himself in glory for the goal. McGinn is on his own. Whelan did well the other day but tonight? Hourihane is about as anonymous a midfielder as I've seen. Green, Elmo, Adomah, El Ghazi? All much of a much. i.e. Inconsistent and unable to play in any dangerous crosses.
What a mess of a squad. That's not Smith's remit, though coaching them is.
We're just so lightweight.
That argument would hold more water if we weren't getting made to look second best against significantly weaker squads week after week, though.
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
Evidence??? Please tell me there is a plan?
Brentford pissed all over us yet again with the team Dean Smith assembled playing a style of football that he imprinted into the whole club. All for a fraction of the money we have spunked over 3 years. I'd call that decent evidence for giving him time to sort out our ageing ,unbalanced squad.
I want him to be the man, but I can't see it right now
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Be glad when this dire season is over....absolute garbage.
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
I feel your pain BG
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The most worrying sign for me is the diminishing returns from McGinn. He’s a great player, a grafter and I’d be surprised if he didn’t respond very well to coaching. Yet he’s looked knackered, frustrated and heavy footed the last few games.
If nothing else, Smith’s failure to rest him in cup games we got stuffed in anyway looks very dodgy.
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It hurts me to say it,but we got what we deserved tonight,nothing.Dean Smith is as far as i am concerned showing the job is to big for him.I expected him knowing everything about Brentford and how they play to be prepared and give them a game.Lets be honest they outplayed us for the whole match.As i said in the match thread he seems to be a stubborn manager and will not change his ways.Yet again he played two wingers who yet again were ineffective and had to be withdrawn.Only he knows why Hourihane starts match after match .Two wins in 13 matches in what is a poor division is dreadful.
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Another truly dismal performance.
Agreed.
Following your comment on the match thread do you want Smith out?
No, do you?
Not at all.
He's got a squad that aren't up to it. That Grealish, Tuanzebe and a fit Chester make such a difference is a huge worry.
We need to change so many players.
Hutton was gash again, Elphick didn't cover himself in glory for the goal. McGinn is on his own. Whelan did well the other day but tonight? Hourihane is about as anonymous a midfielder as I've seen. Green, Elmo, Adomah, El Ghazi? All much of a much. i.e. Inconsistent and unable to play in any dangerous crosses.
What a mess of a squad. That's not Smith's remit, though coaching them is.
We're just so lightweight.
I agree with all that, but it's also why Smith worries me. He's 'Head Coach' and therefore presumably has less direct input into transfers than Bruce had, but for the last dozen or so matches there's no sign of him coaching any sort of improvement at all. Persisting with Hourihane in the role he has asked him to do is utter stupidity. I'd rather recall O'Hare and play him for the last lot of matches. He'd probably look just as lightweight, but at least he'd be getting experience and getting used to the Championship.
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After 50 years of going I have finally had enough. Fuck off Villa you are shit. You have been shit for years and you will be shit for years to come so just fuck off. I have had enough.
My feelings exactly. Now get a good nights sleep then take your mind off it following Brexit and the antics of Trump for a couple of days. Come Saturday for no logical reason right now we will be up for it to beat the baggies. It's a funny old game.
this UTV
"Form goes out of the window in a local derby"
I've heard it said.
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You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
Every new manager inherits players at any new club they join. Surely a head coach can do some coaching and get some results? We've been largely dreadful for about two months now.
I'd love to see us playing the football that Brentford play. We need the players to play that system, I know that. But it was suggested on the pre match thread that Brentford are crap. Well, if they're crap, we are... I don't know.
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Went to work at 6.30am so I could knock off early and watch the game with fellow Villans. I made more of an effort than most of the players. Utter pish, not helped by Spurs fans in the pub celebrating their 3 goals beside us!
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
Well fuckin said.
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We just need the season over with
Get as much as we we can for Jack
Ditch Hutton, whelan, jedinak, adomah, el ghazi and try to sell Kodjia and Taylor
Then it really is a major rebuilding job. At least a two year job I think
Hopefully one or two of the kids will be ready next year although I'm not that expectant
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
Well fuckin said.
Correct.
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Sobering comments Mr Green
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Dean needs his own players in. Stupid to suggest yet another change of Manager. The players simply aren't good enough. Overpaid wasters most of them. We have to stick with DS.
Evidence??? Please tell me there is a plan?
Brentford pissed all over us yet again with the team Dean Smith assembled playing a style of football that he imprinted into the whole club. All for a fraction of the money we have spunked over 3 years. I'd call that decent evidence for giving him time to sort out our ageing ,unbalanced squad.
Again, I don’t think that’s right.
My understanding is that the club (Brentford) identifies and brings the players in. Smith coached them. The same model we now have. Our hopes lie with ‘suso’ being a fucking genius.
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I went to watch Preston - Norwich tonight with my sons football team. Saw a game with pace, passion, good passing and effort. Three good goals. I recorded the Villa game but won’t watch it. Made me realise that a team like Preston with no ‘big names’ can play a top two team off the park.
We need a massive change in attitude and players - pace and desire please not the pedestrian clueless fare served up week on week.
Anyway on to the Albion. UTV.
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
Well fuckin said.
Correct.
We've got a couple of wealthy owners as well
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Really poor.
I've said elsewhere that he's got to look at himself and admit defeat that Whelan and Hourihane will never be able to play at tempo or press.
Far too deep, Tammy isolated as a consequence. Far too slow and easy to play through.
Elphick proving he still has a mistake in him.
The wide men tonight were shocking. Albert has been awful for the past 12 months. El Gahzi shocking. Green needs to.plag and catch up his development.
Desperately poor stuff.
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The only thing I liked about tonight’s game was Tyrone Mings. And we don’t own him.
I tend to try to be glass half full when it comes to the Villa, but tonight is the night I’ve given up on this season. God help us against the Baggies.
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Really poor.
I've said elsewhere that he's got to look at himself and admit defeat that Whelan and Hourihane will never be able to play at tempo or press.
Far too deep, Tammy isolated as a consequence. Far too slow and easy to play through.
Elphick proving he still has a mistake in him.
The wide men tonight were shocking. Albert has been awful for the past 12 months. El Gahzi shocking. Green needs to.plag and catch up his development.
Desperately poor stuff.
I agree, thd wide men being poor is a frustrating one, they're good technical players, I think the big problem is its too easy to keep them quiet as we are too deep, when they get the ball they have two players around them, over lapping fullbacks would make a huge difference but we don't currently have one capable of playing an over lapping game.
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
Well fuckin said.
Correct.
We've got a couple of wealthy owners as well
Don’t matter how wealthy they are if they aren’t allowed to spend on what we need (a new team).
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Well that was shite. The lack of commitment, poise and ability in midfield/forward areas was appalling.
Kalinic - 6 did ok and to be fair didn’t have much to do.
Hutton - 4 meh
Elphick - 3 dived in once and got away with it, then the useless fucker did it again which led to the goal.
Mings -7 couple of dodgy moments but by far our best player.
Hause - 3 looked totally out of place and uncomfortable on the ball,
Whelan - 4 looked exactly as expected when playing 90 minutes, slow and old
McGinn - 6 effort was there but his passing was woeful
Hourihane - 2 shit utter shit and the chance he missed....words fail me
Adomah - 3 anonymous, missed a great chance, rightly subbed, mind elsewhere
Abraham - 4 no service but hold up play and passing when it did get to him were poor.
El Ghazi - 2 do fuck off you lightweight bag of shite
Green - 4 did nothing
Kodjia - 4 did nothing
Elmo - 3 did nothing but loses a mark for being unable to keep the ball in play
Smith - 4 not working is it Dean! Fuck me sort these useless fuckers out and then you need to come up with a way of playing that gets some sort of performance out of them.
Jesus Christ we’ve got the mother of all rebuilding jobs to do at the club this summer.
Anyway, see you all Saturday.
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Albert Adomah hasn't scored a goal for a year. A year. It's just incredible. And El Ghazi looked like Ronaldo before Christmas. He's more like Ronald McDonald now.
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Albert Adomah hasn't scored a goal for a year. A year. It's just incredible. And El Ghazi looked like Ronaldo before Christmas. He's more like Ronald McDonald now.
He's got another month to go before he hits the year mark. I never expected him to continue that scoring run he had last season but to not score for 11 months is almost impressive in its crapness.
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How can clubs like Preston and Bristol City and Norwich who have much smaller budgets than ours and have to sell their best players make it look so easy .Has to be the manager ,coach whatever you like to call them.We have won one home game out of the last six and that was a struggle against the leagues bottom team .The manager who i want so much to be a Saunders or Taylor is looking more and more as the games roll by to be out of his depth. Bruce may have left him with a piss poor squad but there is no excuse for the way we have been playing for the last couple of months.In the last two matches we have been outplayed by Sheffield United for 80 minutes and Brentford for 94 minutes and i bet he will still play the same way against Sandwell on Saturday
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Almost a year is just incredible when you think how lethal he looked for most of last season. He played well Vs Blues but can't think of too many more.
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I still don't understand what happened to the front-foot, attacking football we witnessed during the purple patch just after Dean arrived. Just when you think we can't get any worse, we find a way. Utter, utter crap the lot of 'em.
I'm gonna write into Multi-Coloured Swap Shop to see if we can trade today's starting XI for something more useful like an inflatable dart board.
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The midfield really is awful. It puts the defence under pressure and does not create anything going forward or for Tammy who was on his own
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Our wide players have been letting us down for weeks. Really hope Green gets a go on Saturday.
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It's so easy to play the Villa. Press, harange and force us to give the ball away, then attack at will when you have the ball.
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Disappointing but not unexpected and I just knew we would concede a late goal. I wish the season would end now, as we are a mess and the squad needs a complete overhaul.
Mr Green summed it up for me, I totally agree with Brian's comments about Villa at the moment.
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How can clubs like Preston and Bristol City and Norwich who have much smaller budgets than ours and have to sell their best players make it look so easy .Has to be the manager ,coach whatever you like to call them.We have won one home game out of the last six and that was a struggle against the leagues bottom team .The manager who i want so much to be a Saunders or Taylor is looking more and more as the games roll by to be out of his depth. Bruce may have left him with a piss poor squad but there is no excuse for the way we have been playing for the last couple of months.In the last two matches we have been outplayed by Sheffield United for 80 minutes and Brentford for 94 minutes and i bet he will still play the same way against Sandwell on Saturday
I agree, wish I didnt
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Jesus, I was out all evening and totally forgot about this. What the fuck happened?
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Without Grealish and Tuanzebe the others aren't good enough and Smith doesn't seem to have a plan B. No improvement on Bruce at the moment. We practically have no midfield to speak of and all the wingers have gone to shit. But it's odd that even players like Taylor and Hutton looked half decent before Christmas and now even the better ones are struggling to control the ball or complete a pass. Strange. Smith needs to sort it soon or he's going to lose a lot of goodwill very quickly.
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Jesus, I was out all evening and totally forgot about this. What the fuck happened?
The usual
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SHITE .... INCANDESCENT WITH RAGE
There’s room for more rage in you yet. If I were genuinely incandescent I wouldn’t be able to spell it correctly nor have the presence of mind to use caps lock. Wait till we get humped by Albion on Saturday, then you’ll see incandescence in all its forms.
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I got halfway through the second half and after watching Hause blunder around and panic on the ball again for the umpteenth time actually had the thought that Neil Taylor would have been a better choice tonight. Neil fucking Taylor.
It has also struck me that of that starting team only Kalinic and possibly McGinn can have some confidence they’ll be here next season. I’d imagine Hutton, Elphick, Whelan, Adomah have all been told they’re off in the summer and Hourihane he possibly doesn’t figure in our plans. Of the rest Mings, Hause, El Ghazi and Abraham are all on loan and I’d be surprised if any are here. Is it any wonder we look half arsed our own players have nothing to play for and the loans Hause apart are probably wondering why the fuck would I stay here. Of the three subs, only Green will be here as a Kodjia and Elmo will have been told they’re off too.
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Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I just read the match report on BBC Sport and in the post-match interview Smith said, "We were never going to come here and outplay Brentford..."
Good lord.
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I hated that bollocks in his interview. It’s like having a poor man’s houllier around.
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You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
We all know it needs a complete overhaul again. I have a feeling these players just can't adapt.
It takes a while to change a culture and let's face it we're a mess and have been for a while. We should have done better with the players we have under Bruce. We've brought in a manager who has a completely different philosophy, and it needs bedding in.
Going back to a comment Smith made just before Christmas, he suggested he needed to protect a younger player, O'Hare I think, as the atmosphere at Villa Park when it's going badly is no place for a kid. I suspect that's why he won't blood more, yet.
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He’s right though, the truth hurts doesn’t it.
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He’s right though, the truth hurts doesn’t it.
Sadly.
You.dont need to.outplay sides though, but that we don't even outrun anybody is a bigger worry. It's not out of laziness, it's because we can't.
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Expectation levels now being met. If the manger doesn't expect to compete with Brentford, then the team won't.
Unfortunately I think it comes back to the meeting with the owners before Xmas, they don't expect promotion this season, that message has now permeated to all levels of the club, except the supporters, and Smith will deliver on those expectations.
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I got halfway through the second half and after watching Hause blunder around and panic on the ball again for the umpteenth time actually had the thought that Neil Taylor would have been a better choice tonight. Neil fucking Taylor.
It has also struck me that of that starting team only Kalinic and possibly McGinn can have some confidence they’ll be here next season. I’d imagine Hutton, Elphick, Whelan, Adomah have all been told they’re off in the summer and Hourihane he possibly doesn’t figure in our plans. Of the rest Mings, Hause, El Ghazi and Abraham are all on loan and I’d be surprised if any are here. Is it any wonder we look half arsed our own players have nothing to play for and the loans Hause apart are probably wondering why the fuck would I stay here. Of the three subs, only Green will be here as a Kodjia and Elmo will have been told they’re off too.
I think it's a factor, they do look like they are not putting much effort in and it might be because they know they don't have a future under Smith after this season.
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He’s right though, the truth hurts doesn’t it.
Sadly.
You.dont need to.outplay sides though, but that we don't even outrun anybody is a bigger worry. It's not out of laziness, it's because we can't.
Too true Ads, we lack pace, technique, poise and any sort of a game plan these guys can execute.
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How can clubs like Preston and Bristol City and Norwich who have much smaller budgets than ours and have to sell their best players make it look so easy .Has to be the manager ,coach whatever you like to call them.
Because they have a cohesive system and players that know their jobs and are well drilled. We have had a loop sided Steve Bruce squad expensively assembles but not fit for purpose. I'm not giving Dean Smith a free pass here but my God Steve Bruce left this squad in a horrendous mess.
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You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
We all know it needs a complete overhaul again. I have a feeling these players just can't adapt.
It takes a while to change a culture and let's face it we're a mess and have been for a while. We should have done better with the players we have under Bruce. We've brought in a manager who has a completely different philosophy, and it needs bedding in.
If a complete overhaul is needed, and I agree with you that it definitely is, that suggests to me we're looking at two more seasons down here.
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Thought it was our usual Brentford away performance, but we should have gone in a fortunate 1-0 up at HT, Adomah fluffed his lines. Marginally better second half but this time Hourihane fluffed his lines for us to smash and grab, then Elphick has a brain fart at the end and the pressure eventually tells. 23 efforts on our goal is too many. Kalinic did well, kicking aside. Hause is never a LB, don't know if he's better at CB as not seen him more.
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Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I just read the match report on BBC Sport and in the post-match interview Smith said, "We were never going to come here and outplay Brentford..."
Good lord.
Jesus H Christ, regardless of the context what a dumb thing to say.
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He didn't say we couldn't compete with them, just that we wouldn't outplay them. Two very different things, but still not the greatest thing to come out with.
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Expectation levels now being met. If the manger doesn't expect to compete with Brentford, then the team won't.
Unfortunately I think it comes back to the meeting with the owners before Xmas, they don't expect promotion this season, that message has now permeated to all levels of the club, except the supporters, and Smith will deliver on those expectations.
That stinks if it's reality.
The here and now of current season being wasted away.
Long term and build is lovely and actually exciting in theory .
The current practice is not.
It's the football club equivalent of the players Gabby Agbonlahor or Micah Richards then of this season and the settling or not appear to over exert or progress
Don't like that.
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It really was piss poor. He should have gone with Hutton and Elmo as the full backs in an attempt to give us a bit of balance with Taylor being out. As dire as we were, we had the best two chances of the game until they scored. I'd have been happy with the point given how shit were
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It is hard Aftab because other clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Burnley and the Dogheads find it so easy. How can a tin pot team like like Brentford play us off the pitch. Because they are more, motivated, more committed and more ambitious than we are.
Other than three things, our history, our ground and our incredibly loyal fan base we have nothing..
After watching that shite I went into our kitchen shouting, we have just lost for the third season in a row to Brentford. F in Brentford
We do also have two billionaires as owners which might come in handy in the summer subject to FFP
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Sky highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11636759/brentford-1-0-aston-villa)
DS Sky post-match (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11636769/frustrating-night-for-smith)
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I have just seen the headlines "Pathetic" on the Mail website and logged in expecting to read our manager admitting we were bloody pathetic. I should have known better,he was moaning about the pen we never got and how it was pathetic .He is starting to sound like Lambert ,full of excuses.Brentford could have had a pen but he never mentioned that .
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Radio WM interview audio boom (https://audioboom.com/posts/7174183-dean-smith-after-the-1-0-defeat-to-brentford)
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As bad as anything we saw under Bruce. Limp, lifeless, no urgency, no desire, no must win attitude, just nothing. We played like a mid table Championship team seeing out the season with nothing to play for, which is what we are now.
Albion will beat us aswell Saturday. Joy.
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He didn't say we couldn't compete with them, just that we wouldn't outplay them. Two very different things, but still not the greatest thing to come out with.
I think what he meant was our plan was not to outplay them in the sense of keeping the ball. Given the defensive problems, he has gone with 2 holding midfield players and trying to hit teams in the break. It is not the way he likes to do things but he has gone for damage limitation. You could see this on Friday when we were trying to hit long diagonal balls from deep.
Why he thinks Hourihane can do this job is lost on me. He needs to be further forward and he is a liability anywhere near our box giving stupid fouls away and being generally gormless.
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I have just seen the headlines "Pathetic" on the Mail website and logged in expecting to read our manager admitting we were bloody pathetic. I should have known better,he was moaning about the pen we never got and how it was pathetic .He is starting to sound like Lambert ,full of excuses.Brentford could have had a pen but he never mentioned that .
If he is referring to Abraham, it wasn’t a penalty imo
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Interesting comment from DS about Brentford, " they played well, they have a lot of players who can pass and move.."" they have done for a few years"
Reading between the lines, that was the team I built, that is how I want my team to play, but I don't have the players at Villa.
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Haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if I’m repeating other posters, but it seems that whoever the manager/coach is, our ‘style’ of football is just bloody awful. Players look like they don’t want the ball, so if they get it they lose possession quickly through dreadful passing or a complete lack of awareness. Smith came her as some kind of practitioner of the beautiful game, so where is it?
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Interesting comment from DS about Brentford, " they played well, they have a lot of players who can pass and move.."" they have done for a few years"
Reading between the lines, that was the team I built, that is how I want my team to play, but I don't have the players at Villa.
That's exactly what he means. I'm a big fan of his but there's something I don't like about a manager in a post-match interview reminding the world of his past achievements to deflect from a defeat. It's all a bit, well, Bruce.
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Haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if I’m repeating other posters, but it seems that whoever the manager/coach is, our ‘style’ of football is just bloody awful. Players look like they don’t want the ball, so if they get it they lose possession quickly through dreadful passing or a complete lack of awareness. Smith came her as some kind of practitioner of the beautiful game, so where is it?
Agree Des. The performances over the last couple of months have been as if Bruce never left. Exactly the same one dimensional rubbish, relying on getting the ball wide and hoping they can produce a 'bit of magic'.
It was the same last season, without Grealish in the side we are a bog standard mid to lower table side in this division. It speaks volumes that that is the case really.
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So Smith did not drop Taylor he has been ill for a couple of days. If there was a trophy for players being injured ,unfit or ill we would walk it. Smith also said he can't start Green because he is not fit enough .As far as i can remember like RHM and Lansbury he is always injured
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Missing. Something called a ‘high press’, last seen some time in November/December. If found, please return to Birmingham B6.
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Missing. Something called a ‘high press’, last seen some time in November/December. If found, please return to Birmingham B6.
Exactly. Brentford pressed us and had energy. We let them pass out wide time and time again giving them loads of space. Yet we can't get our wide players involved, not that I would trust them anyway.
There seems to be no tactical change or different options week after week.
We nearly squeaked a draw against a team that will finish mid table. Yes, they play decently, but nothing more, and we always make look much better than they are.
The fans tonight were pretty quiet, but there is just nothing to shout about and everyone seemed stunned about the ineptitude and lack of application.
I am literally having to show blind faith in Smith until next season, because I just cannot see what his way of playing is supposed to be, or what he is trying to do.
Only plus tonight- Griffin Park - an old fashioned ground and some decent places to go near the river. Yes the facilities are sub standard, but give me an evening standing on a terrace rather than a sterile Frankie & Benny's stadium any day.
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Just back home. Another WTF was that display from Villa tonight. Just what can be done to arrest this decline in our great club?. It looks like we will get to visit Brentfords new gound in 2 seasons time.
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Smith talked a load of bollocks in his post match interview.
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Smith talked a load of bollocks in his post match interview.
Doesn't he always. Monotonous and gormless. Most managers do to be fair. Less talking, more coaching and dropping crap players, please.
He must have been watching a different game.
We were fucking useless tonight. Around 7 or 8 of the starting 11 would be nowhere near the squad, let alone the team, if I had my way.
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It's hard to watch Hutton, Whelan, Hourihane, Elphick and company ambling around week in week out. Don't they ever get fed up of being shit?
Anyway, as I thought they would be, Brentford were too good for us. Enough! A day of work ahead and Villa have made me grumpy as fuck. Again.
Let's beat the Baggies on Saturday.
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Just back home.
You deserve a medal
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I feel a bit sorry for Smith he knows what he wants the players to do they are just incapable. Hause gives me no confidence and Horihane he passes and moves but doesn't find space. We are after all a one man team and until Grealish is back it's not going to get any better.
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Well that's a first, I just listened to Dean's WM post-match interview and I'm struggling to find anything that he said that I agree with. Most criminal is that Hause played well.
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You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
Yes you can, he had great performances at Bro, WBA etc...where has that gone?
No you can't. He didn't sign the players he inherited, and it doesn't sound like he has much say in identifying transfer targets or pushing the deals through in the only transfer window we've had since he arrived.
We don't know what has happened but he had us playing some great football in those games...it's no coincidence that the injuries to Grealish, Axel, etc; have coincided with the drop in form with a dodgy defence being exposed by a load of shite players in midfield.
You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
But you can blame him for not improving us one iota
He doesn't have an any magic dust that he can sprinkle on to players to make them good...more often than not, you can't polish a turd and we have a whole load of shite that needs polishing.
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You can't blame Smith for the players he's inherited or the transfer activity.
Every new manager inherits players at any new club they join. Surely a head coach can do some coaching and get some results? We've been largely dreadful for about two months now.
I'd love to see us playing the football that Brentford play. We need the players to play that system, I know that. But it was suggested on the pre match thread that Brentford are crap. Well, if they're crap, we are... I don't know.
See my post above, and make no mistake...we have proper shite players all over the pitch with the exception of SJM, Jack, Tammy and Mings (and 2 of those aren't even our players!).
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Interesting comment from DS about Brentford, " they played well, they have a lot of players who can pass and move.."" they have done for a few years"
Reading between the lines, that was the team I built, that is how I want my team to play, but I don't have the players at Villa.
That's exactly what he means. I'm a big fan of his but there's something I don't like about a manager in a post-match interview reminding the world of his past achievements to deflect from a defeat. It's all a bit, well, Bruce.
Thats exactly how I interpreted it too...can't say I disagree with him because our lot are incapable of passing let alone moving. Even in our purple patch some of the passing and final balls were atrocious, and now some of them can't even control a ball or keep it in play.
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Smith talked a load of bollocks in his post match interview.
Doesn't he always. Monotonous and gormless. Most managers do to be fair. Less talking, more coaching and dropping crap players, please.
He must have been watching a different game.
We were fucking useless tonight. Around 7 or 8 of the starting 11 would be nowhere near the squad, let alone the team, if I had my way.
It's hard to watch Hutton, Whelan, Hourihane, Elphick and company ambling around week in week out. Don't they ever get fed up of being shit?
Anyway, as I thought they would be, Brentford were too good for us. Enough! A day of work ahead and Villa have made me grumpy as fuck. Again.
Let's beat the Baggies on Saturday.
When he first came in, there were plenty of us praising him for his enthusiastic, high energy and insightful interviews...sometimes even speaking too tactically about our high press, settings traps and movement. I'm pretty sure he'd much rather be telling us about a great performance, but he can't come out and say "well, look at the load of shite I have to work with!"
Anyways, it would be really great if someone on here could enlighten us all who Smith should bring in if he was to drop all these shit players. You can't have it both ways.
...and not looking forward to Saturday at all.
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Still. At least our 3rd kit is fabulous right?
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My biggest concern is not really the shitness of our players but the lack of effort, if they played like Brentford or in fact any of the teams we have played recently I think we would have picked up a lot more points. The players just don't seem bothered, they just seem to be going through the motions.
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Realistically there is a good 18-20 players in this squad who are finished and need to be gone and replaced.
I dont think we are in that good a FFP state to be bringing in around 15 new faces. Some major wheeling and dealing needs to be done in the summer.
Its looking like a minimum 2/3 year rebuild job again to me.
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The problem at Aston Villa is Aston Villa - we are a massive club in the Championship, unfortunately like other big clubs in the Championship, who have been in this division for years (Leeds, Sheff Wed, Forest) until we learn that spend , spend, and offering big wages is not the way to get out of this division
We need a major clear out in the summer (anyone whose contract is up needs to be gone, no more giving contracts to players, because they are good around the dressing room), the club is too nice to play for, the players have no motivation to get out of this division and why should they???? if you are the top earners in the division (they earn more than a lot of premier league players) then you are on easy street, there is no pressure on them.
They do not worry if they lose on a weekend.
The likes of Taylor, will not leave until their contract is finished - who else is going to pay him £40k a week,(not even a premier league club will do that) he will happily go shopping every Saturday if he is not playing
The only man under pressure is Smith, and if he goes then it will just be next man up.
I look at the likes of Hourihane as he walked off the pitch last night, he had hardly broke sweat, I bet that when he when he was playing for Barnsley on £8k a week, he could not have dreamt that a club would offer him £30k a week!
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Still. At least our 3rd kit is fabulous right?
I realise it’s a minor gripe in the grand scheme of things but we looked like we’d had to borrow shorts and socks from lost property. Embarrassing.
This clubs motto used to be “Prepared”.
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clearly we are the specialists in false dawns. Leeds, those other serial underachievers lost their best player in the summer, bought in one from Wolves and instantly adapted to the way Bielsa wanted them to play . Smith should be doing the same here, but can't just like countless managers before him, despite the club spending the equivalent of a small country's GDP. I've had enough and won't sit through more of this turgid shit on Saturday against local rivals who will beat us.I almost wish we hadn't been rescued by two multi billionaires in the summer as that would have well and truly forced us into a completely different mindset and culture change. Cnuts the lot of them.
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Mr Underhill, I thought the same at the time that it may have done the club some good if we had not been rescued in the summer, although for any normal employee of the club, i would not wish that upon them.
Our 2 owners must now be wondering why they are throwing money at this club each month to keep it going, and if they are spending loads at the moment what will they have to fork out next season with a lot less revenue coming into the club.
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You wanted us to go into administration, sell our best player for pennies which would have gone to the administrators pockets. To have “restructured” in the bottom leagues like, say, Portsmouth? Or worse still Wimbledon, Oldham, Sunderland or Coventry? Rather than have owners who appear to be in it for the long term? Who are quietly going about their business of turning a wreck of a club around?
Words fail me.
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I think its pretty clear Dean doesn't think they are good enough but realistically what can he say except what he has said? He can't come out and say they are crap can he? If he did that he would lose the dressing room and before you know it he is out on his ear without having a chance to mould his own side. There again I'm not sure this lot would take an apeth of notice if he did say they were not good enough.....
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It's hard to watch Hutton, Whelan, Hourihane, Elphick and company ambling around week in week out. Don't they ever get fed up of being shit?
Anyway, as I thought they would be, Brentford were too good for us. Enough! A day of work ahead and Villa have made me grumpy as fuck. Again.
Let's beat the Baggies on Saturday.
Feel your pain fella. It’s now a proper bottomless pit of misery☹️
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Brentford are 15th in the league and below us
they pissed all over us last night and they aren’t all that according to the table
we are dreadful the worst I’ve ever seen at Villa and fuck me that’s saying something
Smith seems as stubborn as all the other Brit managers unless he finds a way I don’t hold out much hope for his chances
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I think its pretty clear Dean doesn't think they are good enough but realistically what can he say except what he has said? He can't come out and say they are crap can he? If he did that he would lose the dressing room and before you know it he is out on his ear without having a chance to mould his own side. There again I'm not sure this lot would take an apeth of notice if he did say they were not good enough.....
I buy all that to a certain extent, but how about trying to get the best out of this bunch? We haven't got the players to play 433, lacking in midfield quality and our wingers are all woefully out of form so why not try 4411? Or 451? Or even 44 fuckin' 2??
Every time I see the team sheet I'm incredulous as to what the thinking is behind it, Smith just swaps the defensive midfielder, the two wide men, the odd full back and then appears to hope for the best.
This apparent narrow (rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic to use a well worn phrase) thinking since the injury to Grealish worries me greatly. It's been in my mind, and was mentioned by Lee Hendrie last night and previously on here, why not use ELG in Grealish's role? Not an equivalent replacement but similar and enables continuity and that free role draws markers to create space and he may draw a few fouls for set plays. We might not register barnstorming 3-0's all over the place but it's got to be worth a try.
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Sorry, who's ELG?
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
It all sounded mythical and magical.
Now he just sounds like another bitter and out of his depth clone of Bruce.
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Sorry, who's ELG?
El Ghazi
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It is really bad at the moment, last night & Reading make going away so hard. He is being stubborn or stupid, he’s got options instead of playing the same system again & again. We were never in that game last night, ever
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
Agreed Legion, but we did it from when he came in until the Forest game. Just because Jack isn’t playing it doesn’t mean the rest of the tosses can’t still try.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
It all sounded mythical and magical.
Now he just sounds like another bitter and out of his depth clone of Bruce.
Sad but true. His priority now has to be to try to somehow produce a big improvement until the end of the season. He needs to show that he’s worth persevering with.
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It's hard to watch Hutton, Whelan, Hourihane, Elphick and company ambling around week in week out. Don't they ever get fed up of being shit?
Anyway, as I thought they would be, Brentford were too good for us. Enough! A day of work ahead and Villa have made me grumpy as fuck. Again.
Let's beat the Baggies on Saturday.
Feel your pain fella. It’s now a proper bottomless pit of misery☹️
Haha. Hello pal. I'm alright now. Always feel better after a good old moan.
Watching the game in bed, on my mobile in the early hours of this morning, my wife woke up and asked me; 'why do you bother? They either lose or it's boring'. I also had my dad texting me about how much better Brentford were during the game. (which he went to with my sister and sat with the Brentford fans)
I know exactly why we aren't playing well, but I don't want to state the obvious.
We can't lose to the Baggies.
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A thoroughly shit night, the only highlights being finding a decent pub near the ground and getting back reasonably quickly due to lack of traffic.
It often looked to me like they had an extra player - several times one of our players was surrounded by 3 or 4 Brentford players. They had so much more energy than us. We were strolling around as if a 0-0 would do us. In the end we got what we deserved.
I certainly didn’t expect a decent response at full time however the levels of abuse dished out by some of our fans to the players, in particular Hourihane, as they walked in front of the away fans was pretty shocking. Confidence must be absolutely rock bottom now. Not good going into a big derby on Saturday.
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simboy - the point made about the owners was that money doesn't equate to success. Other clubs in the league - most clubs in the league - don't have billionaire owners to constantly fall back on. They wheel and deal and find ways of at least being competitive. We don't. Nobody wants to see us out of business. What we want is some indication that we resemble a functioning football club and not a car crash. Smith isn't working at the moment - 2 wins in 12 is shite by anyone's standards.
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A thoroughly shit night, the only highlights being finding a decent pub near the ground and getting back reasonably quickly due to lack of traffic.
It often looked to me like they had an extra player - several times one of our players was surrounded by 3 or 4 Brentford players. They had so much more energy than us. We were strolling around as if a 0-0 would do us. In the end we got what we deserved.
I certainly didn’t expect a decent response at full time however the levels of abuse dished out by some of our fans to the players, in particular Hourihane, as they walked in front of the away fans was pretty shocking. Confidence must be absolutely rock bottom now. Not good going into a big derby on Saturday.
Sky showed our defenders heading towards the box for what I think was our first corner, strolling would be over-egging it. The air of indifference, the casual manner that they made their way towards the area was shocking, as I said in the match thread at the time, "no rush lads".
For that they deserve as many rounds of fucks as the fans can manage.
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It often looked to me like they had an extra player - several times one of our players was surrounded by 3 or 4 Brentford players. They had so much more energy than us. We were strolling around as if a 0-0 would do us. In the end we got what we deserved.
It genuinly felt as if they had more players on the pitch than us, there over lapping fullbacks and there two wingers/inside forwards were doubling up on our full backs all game.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
That's what I think, too. We've a squad full of players whose ability level has never been that good, despite a massive amount of caps amongst them. And now you can add to that that they're old. Had Smith got his hands on them when they were all four or five (or 6,7,8 in some cases) years younger, he could've drilled his ideas into them, and plenty of time to weed out those that were unresponsive or incapable. Not now, though. We're fucking stuck with them.
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The team assembled by Dean Smith played the one he now manages off the park. It’s hardly stretching credulity to expect that when he has had time to implement his plans at Villa we will see similar performances.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
Managers or head coaches are judged on whether they are getting the best out of the resources at their disposal. Not, I have one plan and one plan only, and need to get players in that suit it. Competent managers adapt.
The early positive days look suspiciously down to a combination of new manager bounce and Grealish. Smith unfortunately seems miles out of his depth at the moment . If the season continues to peter out, he shouldn't be given next season.
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And I think I know what happened last night; on my phone's match feed, it said our manager was one K. MacDonald. Just looked, and it still says it.
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We have some really poor players. They don’t deserve the commitment of the traveling fans. Big job on for Smith the only comfort I take is that he built that Brentford side so with the right players he can get us playing with that tempo and movement - our team looks older less fit less mobile and less skilful on the ball in comparison. Think we might have to take our medicine v Albion and Blues before it gets better - and could be in this division a long time.
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Half of me looks at the recent performances and results and think he is out of his depth. The other half thinks he needs a summer to build his own team and we need to have a long term view, looking at what Norwich, Sheffield Utd have done.
All I know is last time we played the Boggies, I genuinely thought we would beat them. Now, I wonder how many goals they will beat us by at home. Since that match at the Whore Thorns, we have gone downhill pretty quick.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
same here Legion, we have to give Smith a pre-season and a summer transfer window.
getting fed up with quick fixes down the Villa
UTV
The Doc
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For me the only highlight of the night was meeting Des Little and his pals. Great guys and plenty of good banter, bordering on gallows humour at times.
Des - Many thanks for sorting out the ticket for me.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
same here Legion, we have to give Smith a pre-season and a summer transfer window.
getting fed up with quick fixes down the Villa
UTV
The Doc
We need to because we’re turning into Leeds United by changing managers every few months.
Smith needs time but he also needs results soon and he’ll know that.
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It wasn't a very good performance last night I was standing in the bottom tier at Brentford we got behind the team but sadly to no avail.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
I agree with that Legion, but would add that it seems to me that some of our shower don't want to play the way that Smith demands: so they don't feckin bother.
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if the season ends with us where Brentford are now or lower Dean won't get a pre-season here
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A thoroughly shit night, the only highlights being finding a decent pub near the ground and getting back reasonably quickly due to lack of traffic.
It often looked to me like they had an extra player - several times one of our players was surrounded by 3 or 4 Brentford players. They had so much more energy than us. We were strolling around as if a 0-0 would do us. In the end we got what we deserved.
I certainly didn’t expect a decent response at full time however the levels of abuse dished out by some of our fans to the players, in particular Hourihane, as they walked in front of the away fans was pretty shocking. Confidence must be absolutely rock bottom now. Not good going into a big derby on Saturday.
Sky showed our defenders heading towards the box for what I think was our first corner, strolling would be over-egging it. The air of indifference, the casual manner that they made their way towards the area was shocking, as I said in the match thread at the time, "no rush lads".
For that they deserve as many rounds of fucks as the fans can manage.
Absolutely. However screaming at Hourihane that he’s a “Fucking IRA ******” is going slightly over the top IMO.
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if the season ends with us where Brentford are now or lower Dean won't get a pre-season here
You're probably right, but I've a feeling that such an outcome will result in some of our squad surviving the cull that evidently needs to happen...
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A thoroughly shit night, the only highlights being finding a decent pub near the ground and getting back reasonably quickly due to lack of traffic.
It often looked to me like they had an extra player - several times one of our players was surrounded by 3 or 4 Brentford players. They had so much more energy than us. We were strolling around as if a 0-0 would do us. In the end we got what we deserved.
I certainly didn’t expect a decent response at full time however the levels of abuse dished out by some of our fans to the players, in particular Hourihane, as they walked in front of the away fans was pretty shocking. Confidence must be absolutely rock bottom now. Not good going into a big derby on Saturday.
Sky showed our defenders heading towards the box for what I think was our first corner, strolling would be over-egging it. The air of indifference, the casual manner that they made their way towards the area was shocking, as I said in the match thread at the time, "no rush lads".
For that they deserve as many rounds of fucks as the fans can manage.
Absolutely. However screaming at Hourihane that he’s a “Fucking IRA c***” is going slightly over the top IMO.
Really? How utterly moronic.
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auntie - if Steve Bruce returns maybe but if not, then I don't think they would. And just for the record i want Dean to succeed, but I have always thought the job would eat him alive. He's already morphed into Bruce/Lambert
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The team assembled by Dean Smith played the one he now manages off the park. It’s hardly stretching credulity to expect that when he has had time to implement his plans at Villa we will see similar performances.
We said similar about Lambert, but never got the type of football he had Norwich playing despite having a far larger budget than ever had there. Obviously I hope you are right, but I certainly don't think it is a given.
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Just before Xmas we had played WBA off there own park, and smashed Derby and Middlesbrough away, 2 months later we look like the worst group of footballers ever assembled. Madness
How very very true and they look like they have only just met and been cobbled together to throw out a team----why? -- surely it cant all be down to missing Jack and Axel
and why is it that every team we play seems to have more players on the pitch?
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I already said last night that Smith needs and deserves a full pre season of selling and buying and training and preparation. Sam Allardyce recently spoke in detail about the difficulties of taking over a team during a season. Firstly because there are obviously problems at the club in the first place that necessitated a change of manager and secondly how difficult it is to get the team to play how you want mid season.
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I want him to have a full pre-season and to cull the squad and reshape it.
It's 3 years too late and while I'm unhappy with what's happening at the moment and feel he's being too rigid system wise and too loyal personell wise, if the slow death of this season is the price to pay, I can endure that.
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He charmed us with all his chat about ‘high press’, ‘setting traps’ ‘overlapping fullbacks’ etc etc.
I genuinely think that is what he wants but the players at his disposal are incapable of doing it.
same here Legion, we have to give Smith a pre-season and a summer transfer window.
getting fed up with quick fixes down the Villa
UTV
The Doc
We need to because we’re turning into Leeds United by changing managers every few months.
Smith needs time but he also needs results soon and he’ll know that.
This is a good point. Hopefully we don’t have a crazy bat-shit owners like Leeds.
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auntie - if Steve Bruce returns maybe but if not, then I don't think they would. And just for the record i want Dean to succeed, but I have always thought the job would eat him alive. He's already morphed into Bruce/Lambert
I do hope you're right about that clear out, Mr U. I'm pig-sick of our club being a haven for grossly overpaid & under-performing scrotes. Oh, and I'd be genuinely surprised to hear any Villa supporters calling for DS's head ATM. After the years of ineptitude on the park I'd like to think that everyone would want him to succeed in bringing about a footballing revolution, but I confess that the signs ain't adding up to a positive outcome. I'd love to hear what those in the positions of power at VP believe regarding any long term plan(s) they might have, but I fear events in the short term will prolong their silence & see 'em make yet another managerial change if things don't improve. Happy days. :o
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No more
Bunn
Hutton
Elmohamady
Elphick
Richards
Bree
Taylor
Bjarnasson
Whelan
Jedinak
Lansbury
Kodjia
Hogan
Hourihane
McCormack
A summer that see's all of the above leave will be a good one.
We were battered and despite Smiths delusions about how he saw the game, we were utterely dominated by a team that could pass and move around our labouring traffic cones that pretend to be players.
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I want him to have a full pre-season and to cull the squad and reshape it.
It's 3 years too late and while I'm unhappy with what's happening at the moment and feel he's being too rigid system wise and too loyal personel wise, if the slow death of this season is the price to pay, I can endure that.
I'm with you Ads, but I fear short-term results will do for DS before he gets a chance to carry out the necessary surgery.
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I want him to have a full pre-season and to cull the squad and reshape it.
It's 3 years too late and while I'm unhappy with what's happening at the moment and feel he's being too rigid system wise and too loyal personell wise, if the slow death of this season is the price to pay, I can endure that.
Agree Ads, I'm sure that the owners have already bought into that synopsis
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I get how Dean wants to play, but if the players aren’t up to it then shouldn’t he adapt that vision at least until he can replace some? He can’t just continue to play a system that isn’t working.
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I get how Dean wants to play, but if the players aren’t up to it then shouldn’t he adapt that vision at least until he can replace some? He can’t just continue to play a system that isn’t working.
I think we did adapt last night. We sat deeper than usual to hit them on the break and it could be argued that failure to take two good chances was the reason it failed.
Edit: that sounds more positive than I intended as they were much, much better than us but I thought we did set up a little differently.
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I'm willing to put up with bad results. Not so the performances which are getting worse by the week. The general lethargy and zero teamwork is alarming.
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I didn't want Dean Smith but I don't want him sacked. He needs not just one window but both next season. He has a style of play that worked well at Brentford and they played us off the park last night. He needs to play a system that suits the players we have not the players he wants, that is the big issue. A clear out is needed, although I would argue that defensively they appear better and I think Elphick needs to stay. Signing Mings would be good business but the rest need to go. Can we afford a whole new midfield and attack plus some defenders? I think not, but Smith assembled that Brentford squad with little or no money so he and his team are good at spotting talent. He needs a whole season before we judge and swing the axe.
We might not like what we are watching but as others have said, if this is the way to route them out, I'm quote happy to say that happen. Dean can only be judged when it's his squad and this is not his.
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You've only got to look at the three subs last night, all three have failed to perform throughout the season yet still have to be used, we are not getting promoted this season and certainly won't be relegated so why not give one or two of the kids some game time.
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You've only got to look at the three subs last night, all three have failed to perform throughout the season yet still have to be used, we are not getting promoted this season and certainly won't be relegated so why not give one or two of the kids some game time.
The best of the youngsters (eg RHM, COH, JDH) were sent out on loan in January, so the decision not to use them has already been taken
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I agree with AV82EC, I think the kit we wore last night was bloody awful .Why we cant have traditional strips like the all white ,white and blue shorts or the yellow and blue like in the past.
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Jesus, I was out all evening and totally forgot about this. What the fuck happened?
Too much alcohol? A bump on the head? You should probably see a doctor
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I get how Dean wants to play, but if the players aren’t up to it then shouldn’t he adapt that vision at least until he can replace some? He can’t just continue to play a system that isn’t working.
But they are up to it, until the Albion game we looked fantastic.
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I agree with AV82EC, I think the kit we wore last night was bloody awful .Why we cant have traditional strips like the all white ,white and blue shorts or the yellow and blue like in the past.
Or we could have just worn the white away kit we have normally. That third shirt is an abomination.
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I agree with AV82EC, I think the kit we wore last night was bloody awful .Why we cant have traditional strips like the all white ,white and blue shorts or the yellow and blue like in the past.
Or we could have just worn the white away kit we have normally. That third shirt is an abomination.
Could have been a marketing decision as the replica kit is on special offer at the moment.
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Don’t have Foxtel, haven’t seen any games for a while. Still following it from afar. What do people think is the main problem? New manager bounce seems a long time back. Smith was my choice in the poll for new manager- wondering whether he’s up to it now.
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It was a pretty poor bounce, we lost two of his first three!
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Yeah well there were some good results. Just seems like ages ago now. What's happened?
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You've only got to look at the three subs last night, all three have failed to perform throughout the season yet still have to be used, we are not getting promoted this season and certainly won't be relegated so why not give one or two of the kids some game time.
The best of the youngsters (eg RHM, COH, JDH) were sent out on loan in January, so the decision not to use them has already been taken
and in the long term that might be the best decision
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I get how Dean wants to play, but if the players aren’t up to it then shouldn’t he adapt that vision at least until he can replace some? He can’t just continue to play a system that isn’t working.
But they are up to it, until the Albion game we looked fantastic.
That’s two months ago. Whatever has happened, losing Jack and Axel probably key, shows they’re not currently up to it. We look absolutely dreadful, and there comes a point where the approach needs to change even if it’s short-term.
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So change in players used or system?
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Probably a mixture.
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Jesus, I was out all evening and totally forgot about this. What the fuck happened?
(https://i.ibb.co/Y3x89kC/Lucky.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y3x89kC)
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As I said, I haven’t seen many matches recently, but struggling to understand how we can go from winning 4-0 away at Middlesbrough to barely scraping a point in recent games.
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All the stats from the game are appalling!
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So change in players used or system?
It's tough, to change the system you have, in my opinion, 2 options: 442 or 352
The former is a bad idea because we're already weak in central midfield and struggle to get our wide players to track back, this adds more emphasis on both of those weaknesses.
The latter is tough because we have no one who could be a competent Left Wing back. On the right you might get away with Elmo or Adomah but they're 2 of the players who been is god awful form since Christmas so making them responsible for that entire side of the pitch is risky in itself.
For the players we've loaned out the people who could offer something in midfield and that's where we really need improvement. As I've said a few times personally I'd be looking to get Grealish and Tuanzene in for Whelan and Hourihane asap and that alone would be a massive improvement in there.
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I thought we actually defended OK tonight. It was the total lack of quality, guile, intelligence, creativity and pace going forward that was the problem.
Deluded..sorry but no one gets away with this one
Sorry I think the same,it was like the Alamo and they got no respite at all, wave after wave of attack, there was nothing happening in front of them.
They got no respite because of the amount of times they aimlessly twatted it down a wing or even worse, blindly twatted it forward without even looking if we had a player in that general direction. The entire team to a man were afraid to look after the ball
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
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Don’t have Foxtel, haven’t seen any games for a while. Still following it from afar. What do people think is the main problem? New manager bounce seems a long time back. Smith was my choice in the poll for new manager- wondering whether he’s up to it now.
We play too slowly. Without a wildcard in Jack teams know thy can press us high and we'll struggle to hurt them on the counter so we have all the space closed down and resort to long punts up field.
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
Don't be daft. You don't need to spend fortunes to improve.
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Last night was really sobering, despite the beers with the London Lions.
I'm sure it's all been said above but our players looked like they had been introduced in the car park before the game and were very immobile compared to Brentford. We were also abysmally uncomfortable on the ball - poor control, dozens of misplaced passes, sometimes just directly to an opponent.
A couple of our mates come to London games with us although they are not Villa fans and they thought Hause was laughably bad - George Weah's cousin bad.
If that performance had been under Bruce we would have called for his head - though our 3-0 defeat two years ago was worse, so maybe we are making progress. I know this is not Smith's squad but given the good performances in November I really thought we should be better coached and organised by now.
I am writing off this season and preparing for a summer of transfer shenanigans with Smith bringing in players he wants (I know Brentford have a team to do this) and then coaching them to the style he wants. I don't need big names, just players who have ability and desire.
After the game in the pub Chico remarked how Smith has aged in 4 months. When he came I was worried that the job may be too big a step up. It is too soon to tell but I hope it doesn't wear him down.
PS That away kit is fucking awful. Bin it.
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Judging by recent performances I am glad we don't hold a candle of reaching the playoffs. Imagine this squad in the premiership.
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
That's a crazy figure. Norwich finished 14th last season and are now top 2 having spent 5m in the summer on new players. Leeds spent 11m and are also flying.
I'd say somewhere between 15-20m spread across the squad this summer for us, IF spent well.
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I agree with AV82EC, I think the kit we wore last night was bloody awful .Why we cant have traditional strips like the all white ,white and blue shorts or the yellow and blue like in the past.
because the club are doing a 30% off that kit and needed to shift some .
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
That's a crazy figure. Norwich finished 14th last season and are now top 2 having spent 5m in the summer on new players. Leeds spent 11m and are also flying.
I'd say somewhere between 15-20m spread across the squad this summer for us, IF spent well.
But some are saying we need to get rid of nearly 20 players, because they're all "shit" and/or "old". I'm not sure the Norwich or Leeds manager needs that kind of rebuild in order for them to compete with the mighty Brentford.
Assuming other clubs won't want to pay much for shit/old players, and we need better quality for Smith to charge us to promotion, that number of replacements are going to cost a pretty penny.
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We lost the game the minute someone decided that that third shirt looked OK with those claret shorts & socks. I wish they'd have told us that travelled, I'd have stayed at home and watched it on a black and white TV.
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Last night was really sobering, despite the beers with the London Lions.
I'm sure it's all been said above but our players looked like they had been introduced in the car park before the game and were very immobile compared to Brentford. We were also abysmally uncomfortable on the ball - poor control, dozens of misplaced passes, sometimes just directly to an opponent.
A couple of our mates come to London games with us although they are not Villa fans and they thought Hause was laughably bad - George Weah's cousin bad.
If that performance had been under Bruce we would have called for his head - though our 3-0 defeat two years ago was worse, so maybe we are making progress. I know this is not Smith's squad but given the good performances in November I really thought we should be better coached and organised by now.
I am writing off this season and preparing for a summer of transfer shenanigans with Smith bringing in players he wants (I know Brentford have a team to do this) and then coaching them to the style he wants. I don't need big names, just players who have ability and desire.
After the game in the pub Chico remarked how Smith has aged in 4 months. When he came I was worried that the job may be too big a step up. It is too soon to tell but I hope it doesn't wear him down.
PS That away kit is fucking awful. Bin it.
Fair play for bothering, mate. My dad took my sister to her first ever Villa game, as she doesn't live that far from Brentford's ground. He was very unimpressed with us.
I hope they stuff the Baggies for you on Saturday. I take it you'll be there?
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
That's a crazy figure. Norwich finished 14th last season and are now top 2 having spent 5m in the summer on new players. Leeds spent 11m and are also flying.
I'd say somewhere between 15-20m spread across the squad this summer for us, IF spent well.
But some are saying we need to get rid of nearly 20 players, because they're all "shit" and/or "old". I'm not sure the Norwich or Leeds manager needs that kind of rebuild in order for them to compete with the mighty Brentford.
Assuming other clubs won't want to pay much for shit/old players, and we need better quality for Smith to charge us to promotion, that number of replacements are going to cost a pretty penny.
I could see 10 new faces coming in easily. Add them to a current group of Kalinic, Chester, McGinn, Grealish (possibly, or we'll have 20m+ to spend if not), Green and Davis and hopefully we manage to somehow convince Mings to stay. Add that to a couple of others who will probably stick around (Lansbury/Carroll could prove themselves). That would then be a very different match day 18 next season.
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Just before Xmas we had played WBA off there own park, and smashed Derby and Middlesbrough away, 2 months later we look like the worst group of footballers ever assembled. Madness
How very very true and they look like they have only just met and been cobbled together to throw out a team----why? -- surely it cant all be down to missing Jack and Axel
and why is it that every team we play seems to have more players on the pitch?
We are easy to play against, that's why.
Every team that plays us attacks our full backs. Hutton and whoever are the real weakness in our team. Any team worth their name will play with their wing backs or full backs pushing on. This means that if El Gazi, Adomah, Kodjia, or latterly Bolasie don't track back then they have a natural "overload". Guess what, they don't!
Add to this that our midfield is poor at getting back. Watch the lowlight packages of most games and you will see that Hologram or Whelan/BB is trailing in the wake of the goal scorer/provider after they have left our fool backs for dead.
We add in individual errors [Elphick last night, Chester on numerous occasions] and we are mid table mediocrity no matter how many goals we score.
Anyway that's my view from the Holte ...
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I'd say somewhere between 15-20m spread across the squad this summer for us, IF spent well.
And that will buy you how many players?
Sorry, but I think you're wrong...very wrong
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
No Championship teams ever spend anything like that amount. Huddersfield got promoted after spending about £3m.
Having a proper plan and being organised is far more important than ££ in the Championship. As the last two years have shown us.
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You mean no Championship club other than us? Tot up all the money spent since relegation and it won't be far off that sum.
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
I don’t think we’ll be allowed to spend that so can’t see us going up for a while.
As it currently stands we’re a mid table Championship side at best with only a few sellable players.
Tough times ahead.
That's a crazy figure. Norwich finished 14th last season and are now top 2 having spent 5m in the summer on new players. Leeds spent 11m and are also flying.
I'd say somewhere between 15-20m spread across the squad this summer for us, IF spent well.
But some are saying we need to get rid of nearly 20 players, because they're all "shit" and/or "old". I'm not sure the Norwich or Leeds manager needs that kind of rebuild in order for them to compete with the mighty Brentford.
Assuming other clubs won't want to pay much for shit/old players, and we need better quality for Smith to charge us to promotion, that number of replacements are going to cost a pretty penny.
"Getting rid" includes: Bunn, Steer, Hutton, Richards, Jedi, Whelan, Elphick and potentially all the loanees. That's 13 players right there. Most people think Grealish will go and If we can move on 3-4 of Taylor, Elmo, Hourihane, Lansbury, Bjarnson, Hogan, McCormack and Kodjia then I doubt anyone would stand in their way.
If that were to happen we'd have a fuckton of wages freed up and (mostly from Grealish) about £50m in our pocket (on top of whatever we had anyway). Personally I'd throw about £10-15m on getting Mings, a left back and a defensive midfielder. We'd then need to replace Jack, El Ghazi and Abraham, which would cost a bit more, probably £20-25m. Once we've got those I'd look at signing young players to have a year with the U23s and sometimes fill the bench and then getting a few loans to fill out the squad. I reckon, if Grealish leaves, we'd have almost no net spend to fix things, if he doesn't we'd be £15-20m but get another season with the best player in the league, hopefully in a team that fits his style much better.
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We’ll need £100million, at least, to sort out the current shower masquerading as our squad.
Absolute nonsense. It's throwing stupid money at it that's got us in this mess as far as i can see.
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I'd say somewhere between 15-20m spread across the squad this summer for us, IF spent well.
And that will buy you how many players?
Sorry, but I think you're wrong...very wrong
OK despite at least 3 teams going up in recent years having spent 10m or less and starting from the sort of league position we are now, we have no chance.
You probably haven't even heard of the likes of Buendia, one of the league's best players this season.
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The problem isn't so much how much we have to spend but more the amount of players we need to bring in. Can we realistically expect to make 8/9 quality signings this summer.
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So change in players used or system?
It's tough, to change the system you have, in my opinion, 2 options: 442 or 352
The former is a bad idea because we're already weak in central midfield and struggle to get our wide players to track back, this adds more emphasis on both of those weaknesses.
The latter is tough because we have no one who could be a competent Left Wing back. On the right you might get away with Elmo or Adomah but they're 2 of the players who been is god awful form since Christmas so making them responsible for that entire side of the pitch is risky in itself.
For the players we've loaned out the people who could offer something in midfield and that's where we really need improvement. As I've said a few times personally I'd be looking to get Grealish and Tuanzene in for Whelan and Hourihane asap and that alone would be a massive improvement in there.
We could easily go with a variant of 4-4-2.
Abraham and Kodija (I know!) in the centre. McGinn, Hourihane, BB and Whelan in midfield.
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So change in players used or system?
It's tough, to change the system you have, in my opinion, 2 options: 442 or 352
The former is a bad idea because we're already weak in central midfield and struggle to get our wide players to track back, this adds more emphasis on both of those weaknesses.
The latter is tough because we have no one who could be a competent Left Wing back. On the right you might get away with Elmo or Adomah but they're 2 of the players who been is god awful form since Christmas so making them responsible for that entire side of the pitch is risky in itself.
For the players we've loaned out the people who could offer something in midfield and that's where we really need improvement. As I've said a few times personally I'd be looking to get Grealish and Tuanzene in for Whelan and Hourihane asap and that alone would be a massive improvement in there.
We could easily go with a variant of 4-4-2.
Abraham and Kodija (I know!) in the centre. McGinn, Hourihane, BB and Whelan in midfield.
but then who protects the full backs and how do you fit McGinn, Hourihane and BB in when they all seem to prefer playing on the left side of the midfield. I could live with:
Tuanzebe Whelan/Carroll Mcginn
Grealish
Abraham Kodjia/Davis
When everyone is fit that could work with McGinn and Tuanzebe supporting the fullbacks in defence but that's not going to help with what we have right now. All three of those forwards are decent at going wide so we could push them out to have starting positions against the fullbacks and Let Jack be a sort of false 9 drifting in to occupy the centre backs. Would be a good way to pin full backs deeper.
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You are not going to win games unless you compete in the middle of the park. If you keep on giving the ball away, you are inviting pressure on to you with the most likely outcome being that you concede goals. To compete in the middle of the park, you need energy and have quickness over a short distance. We do not have that and I do not see any fit players in the squad that can change that. For years, our passing has been atrocious and ball control no better. For years, we have relied on individuals, rather than playing as a team. Too much money to spend has encouraged this approach.
The owners decided that the Club needed to be rebuilt on the playing side from top to bottom and looked for a coach to do this over a period of time, not a short term dash for promotion. To lose faith in that approach due to unrest from supporters wanting instant success would be a disaster for the Club and would see us remaining in the wilderness for years to come. We have a limited squad that has shown to be weak when injuries to certain positions have occurred. We need to see out this season and start again in the summer.
As supporters, we should be recognising the reality of the situation, rather than ignoring things like, losing your best player through injury, spent very little on buying players in the last 18 months (the most expensive squad in this division was assembled more than 2 years ago and those players have either failed to deliver or aged), have had a constant churn of loan players over the last 2 years with no consistency etc., etc. I am not going to support change in management until this guy has been given the chance to do what he was brought in to do. I could understand the need to change Remi Garde because of the mismatch with the players and the pressure of the PL but not going the same way with Dean Smith.
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I personally thought Remi Garde was hard done by.
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So do I.
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Remi Garde was written off along with our Premier League membership when he was given nothing in that transfer window.
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Correct. The way he was treated was disgraceful.
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So do I.
Me too
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Moi aussi.
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I didn't say I agreed with getting rid of Remi Garde, only that I understood the reason. Personally, I would have got rid of the players that were causing the conflict and been honest about what funding was available. He was probably sold a dream and given a nightmare.
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You are not going to win games unless you compete in the middle of the park. If you keep on giving the ball away, you are inviting pressure on to you with the most likely outcome being that you concede goals. To compete in the middle of the park, you need energy and have quickness over a short distance. We do not have that and I do not see any fit players in the squad that can change that. For years, our passing has been atrocious and ball control no better. For years, we have relied on individuals, rather than playing as a team. Too much money to spend has encouraged this approach.
The owners decided that the Club needed to be rebuilt on the playing side from top to bottom and looked for a coach to do this over a period of time, not a short term dash for promotion. To lose faith in that approach due to unrest from supporters wanting instant success would be a disaster for the Club and would see us remaining in the wilderness for years to come. We have a limited squad that has shown to be weak when injuries to certain positions have occurred. We need to see out this season and start again in the summer.
As supporters, we should be recognising the reality of the situation, rather than ignoring things like, losing your best player through injury, spent very little on buying players in the last 18 months (the most expensive squad in this division was assembled more than 2 years ago and those players have either failed to deliver or aged), have had a constant churn of loan players over the last 2 years with no consistency etc., etc. I am not going to support change in management until this guy has been given the chance to do what he was brought in to do. I could understand the need to change Remi Garde because of the mismatch with the players and the pressure of the PL but not going the same way with Dean Smith.
I was going to say post of the season but let’s be honest it’s post of the decade. This is the point for all Villa fans to face into our position and realise that building from the ground up is the only way, we’ve had 13 years of everything being built on foundations of sand, quick fixes and panic buys and appointments made by a variety of charlatans, spivs and chancers. Now is the time for us to stop being a bunch of too big for this league spoilt brats and face right into the fact we’re a mid table Championship club and start taking our medicine. You know what though, it hurts, it really fucking hurts.
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I personally thought Remi Garde was hard done by.
Absolutely shocking, embarrassing, if them down the road had done it, we would never let them forget it
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Villa supporters have never come to terms with being a championship side, psychologically we have thought of ourselves as a premiership side that has had a bad couple of years along with incompetent stewardship that thought that if we bought all the best players from the opposition we would soon be back where we belong.
The penny has dropped I believe that top sides are not developed overnight but by finding players that are capable of carrying out whatever strategy the manager deems appropriate.
Watching Bretford I was struck by the fact I hadn't heard of most of their team yet they all seemed to be very capable, the same applies to those teams at the top, full of virtual unknowns yet playing good football.
Unfortunately our present squad to my eyes is a team of individuals who do not work for each other and this manager must be given the time to get them out and replace them with team players.
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i also agree with the Remi Garde post - he was hard done by, but player power from the likes of Gabby etc.. got rid of Remi!
We need to stick with Smith, lets hope that in the summer he and the club realise that we need to get rid of a shed load of players.
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You are not going to win games unless you compete in the middle of the park. If you keep on giving the ball away, you are inviting pressure on to you with the most likely outcome being that you concede goals. To compete in the middle of the park, you need energy and have quickness over a short distance. We do not have that and I do not see any fit players in the squad that can change that. For years, our passing has been atrocious and ball control no better. For years, we have relied on individuals, rather than playing as a team. Too much money to spend has encouraged this approach.
The owners decided that the Club needed to be rebuilt on the playing side from top to bottom and looked for a coach to do this over a period of time, not a short term dash for promotion. To lose faith in that approach due to unrest from supporters wanting instant success would be a disaster for the Club and would see us remaining in the wilderness for years to come. We have a limited squad that has shown to be weak when injuries to certain positions have occurred. We need to see out this season and start again in the summer.
As supporters, we should be recognising the reality of the situation, rather than ignoring things like, losing your best player through injury, spent very little on buying players in the last 18 months (the most expensive squad in this division was assembled more than 2 years ago and those players have either failed to deliver or aged), have had a constant churn of loan players over the last 2 years with no consistency etc., etc. I am not going to support change in management until this guy has been given the chance to do what he was brought in to do. I could understand the need to change Remi Garde because of the mismatch with the players and the pressure of the PL but not going the same way with Dean Smith.
I was going to say post of the season but let’s be honest it’s post of the decade. This is the point for all Villa fans to face into our position and realise that building from the ground up is the only way, we’ve had 13 years of everything being built on foundations of sand, quick fixes and panic buys and appointments made by a variety of charlatans, spivs and chancers. Now is the time for us to stop being a bunch of too big for this league spoilt brats and face right into the fact we’re a mid table Championship club and start taking our medicine. You know what though, it hurts, it really fucking hurts.
Another great honest post. That’s the reality of it.
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Top post Old Man, we are no longer in a position to go shit or bust. That failed and we are now restricted by the regulations.
We have to do it arguably the right way by building a team that wins matches, play for each other, the manager and the fans. That is why Leeds and Norwich are where they are with limited big name players.
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The bunch of snakes in Gabby's Gang in the dressing room not only got rid of Remi Garde they got rid of Ayew, Traore, Gueye, Amavi and Veretout, players with a current market value of £200 million, give or take.
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Villa supporters have never come to terms with being a championship side, psychologically we have thought of ourselves as a premiership side that has had a bad couple of years along with incompetent stewardship that thought that if we bought all the best players from the opposition we would soon be back where we belong.
The penny has dropped I believe that top sides are not developed overnight but by finding players that are capable of carrying out whatever strategy the manager deems appropriate.
Watching Bretford I was struck by the fact I hadn't heard of most of their team yet they all seemed to be very capable, the same applies to those teams at the top, full of virtual unknowns yet playing good football.
Unfortunately our present squad to my eyes is a team of individuals who do not work for each other and this manager must be given the time to get them out and replace them with team players.
That sums it up Robbo. We have spent the last god knows how years signing high priced players hoping they will get us out of a mess, but all they seem interested in is a big salary etc (mercenaries in mho or so called best players from lesser teams). What we need to do is sign players who want to improve themselves and prove a point. I would love Villa to go up this season, but with the current squad I fear we would get hammered if we go up. Give Dean Smith a year to rebuild and get rid of the over paid journeymen and then lets judge.
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Young and hungry?
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Young and hungry?
Exactly Leeg.
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Villa supporters have never come to terms with being a championship side, psychologically we have thought of ourselves as a premiership side that has had a bad couple of years along with incompetent stewardship that thought that if we bought all the best players from the opposition we would soon be back where we belong.
You're right. I'm not going to say it's all Villa fans, but you're definitely talking about me.
Now is the time for us to stop being a bunch of too big for this league spoilt brats and face right into the fact we’re a mid table Championship club and start taking our medicine. You know what though, it hurts, it really fucking hurts.
This is a bastard. Giving up the fags was easier. But Wednesday got me there.
We had our big shot at it. We missed. Not by a lot, but missed all the same. Time to evaluate, accept, move on.
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When Hogan missed that easy header in the closing minutes of the play off final all our chickens came home to roost in one huge flock. All the waste, all the mismanagement, all the blunders, all the scandals, all the greed, all the lead swinging. The net result of all the post MON wrecking is what we now are. A mid table second division side propped up by borrowed players unable to give a decent game to most of the teams we play.
There really is no alternative but to tear the whole, creaking, crumbling edifice down and build it again including new foundations.
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Villa supporters have never come to terms with being a championship side, psychologically we have thought of ourselves as a premiership side that has had a bad couple of years along with incompetent stewardship that thought that if we bought all the best players from the opposition we would soon be back where we belong.
You're right. I'm not going to say it's all Villa fans, but you're definitely talking about me.
Now is the time for us to stop being a bunch of too big for this league spoilt brats and face right into the fact we’re a mid table Championship club and start taking our medicine. You know what though, it hurts, it really fucking hurts.
This is a bastard. Giving up the fags was easier. But Wednesday got me there.
We had our big shot at it. We missed. Not by a lot, but missed all the same. Time to evaluate, accept, move on.
Totally agree.
We’ve never been a team in all of the time we’ve been in this league.
Sure we’ve come close but until we stop living in the past and get on with trying to construct a side with a decent work ethic we’ll be stuck here for years.
I watched Villa on Wednesday night and it was literally 11 v 5 or 6. A times we’ve basically been playing with half a side.
It’s been like that for years. We’re just not a team and the philosophy of just buying other teams best players and assuming it’s going to work just has to stop.
It’s a bit of a balancing act for Smith because clearly a number of his squad will be moving or moved on so he’s maybe trying to implement his style under challenging circumstances. He can’t also come out and be too critical as he knows he needs these players onside until season end at least.
He needs a performance and result tomorrow for sure though.
Hopefully the heat of a local derby will inspire one or two more to turn up.
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I don’t want Smith sacked but that doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism after that pile of shit we were served on Wednesday night. And I also think we’re right to question what improvements he’s made since he took over. I saw no evidence of any at Brentford. Give him time, yes, give him encouragement, yes but let him know that he’ll be expected to deliver improvements in return.
He can start on Saturday.
And Remii Garde was just about the worst person we could have drafted in to sort out the mess we were in a the time. Merde
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When Hogan missed that easy header in the closing minutes of the play off final all our chickens came home to roost in one huge flock. All the waste, all the mismanagement, all the blunders, all the scandals, all the greed, all the lead swinging. The net result of all the post MON wrecking is what we now are. A mid table second division side propped up by borrowed players unable to give a decent game to most of the teams we play.
There really is no alternative but to tear the whole, creaking, crumbling edifice down and build it again including new foundations.
I’d argue, admittedly with hindsight, the early Lerner years under MON were as damaging as everything that has happened since, it was only given a veneer of respectability by our league placing and a couple of losing trips to Wembley, with a few exceptions in terms of player signings it was the same shit or bust approach as we’ve experienced since. Splashing the cash is great but if it’s just done for show with no underlying ethos or plan, well you end up where we are now.
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When Hogan missed that easy header in the closing minutes of the play off final all our chickens came home to roost in one huge flock. All the waste, all the mismanagement, all the blunders, all the scandals, all the greed, all the lead swinging. The net result of all the post MON wrecking is what we now are. A mid table second division side propped up by borrowed players unable to give a decent game to most of the teams we play.
There really is no alternative but to tear the whole, creaking, crumbling edifice down and build it again including new foundations.
That's the way I now feel Brian. We should also give Dean Smith time, I can't see the point in constantly changing managers.
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This is an interesting observation from a Brentford forum site. John Terry spent the game bending the 4th official's ear, or standing as far away from Dean Smith as possible or flouncing back to his seat. The only communication between him and Dean Smith was after a spell of pressure (a spell LOL, probably most of the game) Smith turned to Terry and told him to advise his defenders. Terry did this wirly thing with his fingers and pointed, it was very bizarre, I had to laugh, WTF was that meant to mean. On another occassion, when Villa were going forward, 2 of the defenders looked at Terry and strugged, looking like a couple of lost kids on a pitch not knowing what to do. I've never seen a pro footballer do this before. All in all, Smith & Terry are NOT working well together, their body language and lack of communication said it all. Villa were cr@p[/b]
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You are not going to win games unless you compete in the middle of the park. If you keep on giving the ball away, you are inviting pressure on to you with the most likely outcome being that you concede goals. To compete in the middle of the park, you need energy and have quickness over a short distance. We do not have that and I do not see any fit players in the squad that can change that. For years, our passing has been atrocious and ball control no better. For years, we have relied on individuals, rather than playing as a team. Too much money to spend has encouraged this approach.
The owners decided that the Club needed to be rebuilt on the playing side from top to bottom and looked for a coach to do this over a period of time, not a short term dash for promotion. To lose faith in that approach due to unrest from supporters wanting instant success would be a disaster for the Club and would see us remaining in the wilderness for years to come. We have a limited squad that has shown to be weak when injuries to certain positions have occurred. We need to see out this season and start again in the summer.
As supporters, we should be recognising the reality of the situation, rather than ignoring things like, losing your best player through injury, spent very little on buying players in the last 18 months (the most expensive squad in this division was assembled more than 2 years ago and those players have either failed to deliver or aged), have had a constant churn of loan players over the last 2 years with no consistency etc., etc. I am not going to support change in management until this guy has been given the chance to do what he was brought in to do. I could understand the need to change Remi Garde because of the mismatch with the players and the pressure of the PL but not going the same way with Dean Smith.
Great post
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Agree, great post OMVF and I totally agree.
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That is indeed a great post.
The sad reality is though that we live in a want it yesterday society and the football fan is no different to anything else these days.
And some contributors on here are not prepared to wait or be patient or see beyond just adding to an already proven unworkable method.
For years we’ve just attracted players who bloody feed of us and have been run by owners who are short sighted in their thinking.
The whole philosophy of this club needs to be re shaped or else we will never get anywhere.
We haven’t realistically competed in this league yet.
Ok we got close last year but can anybody honestly say that we looked anywhere near like Premier League material?
This final 10 game and Summer to follow may well be tough but we may well start to actually realize that we’re preparing to play in a tough league and mould a team accordingly and not just buy our way out of the bloody thing.