Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Other Football => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on December 14, 2018, 11:26:50 PM

Title: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 14, 2018, 11:26:50 PM
Launched on Netflix today.  I’m really enjoying it so far.  The 2nd episode ends with them trying to sign McCaramac off us on the last day of the window last season but they look as if they couldn’t believe the wages he was on hence it falling through at 11pm.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 15, 2018, 12:34:14 AM
For some reason this docu about them had me searching the Premier passions series they did in the 90s when Peter Reid and his assistant Bobby Saxon swore their way through halftime team talks.

Just watched the first one, actually covers a game against us in the last five minutes.

Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 15, 2018, 10:46:06 PM
Our old friend Darren England gives a goal then runs to his Lino and guess what disallows it!  This sent them down.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Seb_AVFC on December 15, 2018, 10:50:42 PM
Well at least their recruitment team suggested to bring Ibrahimovic in on loan (and Asley Westwood).

Mind you it could have been us this Summer...
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 15, 2018, 11:06:35 PM
Chris Coleman comes across as a thoroughly decent bloke. He got sacked but took time to text ordinary members of staff like the two chefs to thank them and calling them great people.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 16, 2018, 03:12:03 AM
Yeah, he does. Couldn't believe the mutant trying to fight him in the car park. What is wrong with people? A couple of others came across well, notably the player they had on loan from Palace and the young kid who obviously loves the club.

Enjoyed the series, albeit it brought back a few unpleasant memories of trips to Villa Park and elsewhere in the last few years. I can sympathise as many elements mirrored our recent failures.

Sunderland fans always seem a reasonable bunch, the odd mutant notwithstanding. They seem a bit like us, loyal, put upon, fairly self-deprecating. Not like their neighbours who take themselves very seriously indeed.

Oh, and Jack Rodwell makes Micah Richards and Stephen Ireland seem dedicated.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: darren woolley on December 18, 2018, 11:15:04 AM
I will have to watch this.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 18, 2018, 02:27:16 PM
I found myself thinking that anyone who thinks we are fickle should watch that documentary.

I know they've not had the best of times in recent years, but at the drop of a hat, they're all doing that fist shakig, booing, walking out thing.

I also found myself wondering how come they report such good attendances as the ground looked near empty in most of the sequences shown in matches.

Finally, found myself thinking what a good player Lewis Grabban is.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 18, 2018, 02:54:12 PM
I think quite a lot of creative licence was taken, some of the booing, angry gesticulating and yourenotfittoweartheshirting was recycled. You could sometimes see them losing an away game then the footage would jump to a load of angry Sunderland fans at the Stadium of Light.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Chipsticks on December 18, 2018, 03:23:56 PM
Blitzed through the whole thing on a sick day yesterday and really enjoyed watching, despite feeling the same consistent low-level anxiety that Dunkirk gave me.

Gives a really good insight into the inner workings of modern football.

I've always had pleasant experiences when visiting the Stadium of Light, couldn't help but feel sorry for the buggers.

Had to wonder how the documentary would have turned out last season if they'd filmed us instead!
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: PeterWithe on December 19, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
I thought Coleman, Symonds and the CEO came across very well, especially given the circumstances they found themselves in. I don’t know if Grayson was uncomfortable with the camera around or he really did lack any kind of charisma whatsoever.

It was watchable but I don’t think it went deep enough in exploring the interesting stuff, Gibson, Grabban situations and McGeady evidently not rating Coleman was only skirted over. Also Ellis Short only appeared for about three seconds.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Damo70 on December 19, 2018, 11:36:15 AM
I thought Coleman, Symonds and the CEO came across very well, especially given the circumstances they found themselves in. I don’t know if Grayson was uncomfortable with the camera around or he really did lack any kind of charisma whatsoever.

It was watchable but I don’t think it went deep enough in exploring the interesting stuff, Gibson, Grabban situations and McGeady evidently not rating Coleman was only skirted over. Also Ellis Short only appeared for about three seconds.


To be fair I think Ellis Short only appeared at the club for about three seconds in the last year of his ownership. Randy MkII.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cheltenhamlion on December 19, 2018, 05:09:16 PM
I quite enjoyed it but there were uncomfortable similarities with us.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 19, 2018, 09:32:37 PM
I'm in the middle of episode 7. I paused to come on here and mark how much I enjoyed Grabban's good old fashioned sticking it to the booing hordes with the cup of the ear to his old fans. It's very route one, and very childish but so is a group of old-enough-to-know-betters screaming blue genocide at a footballer who played in front of them for half a season.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 19, 2018, 09:33:30 PM
I found myself thinking that anyone who thinks we are fickle should watch that documentary.

I know they've not had the best of times in recent years, but at the drop of a hat, they're all doing that fist shakig, booing, walking out thing.

I also found myself wondering how come they report such good attendances as the ground looked near empty in most of the sequences shown in matches.

Finally, found myself thinking what a good player Lewis Grabban is.

I thought that about the F word yesterday.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 19, 2018, 09:54:15 PM
Oh my, I hadn't realised that Bent relegated them. Fucking hell!
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Ger Regan on December 19, 2018, 10:09:27 PM
I found myself thinking that anyone who thinks we are fickle should watch that documentary.

I know they've not had the best of times in recent years, but at the drop of a hat, they're all doing that fist shakig, booing, walking out thing.

I also found myself wondering how come they report such good attendances as the ground looked near empty in most of the sequences shown in matches.

Finally, found myself thinking what a good player Lewis Grabban is.

I thought that about the F word yesterday.
I've no doubt most of that was down to editing, and those scenes reminded me of our match threads.

Jonny Williams seems too nice to be a footballer, too.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Dave P on December 19, 2018, 10:42:19 PM
I thought Coleman, Symonds and the CEO came across very well, especially given the circumstances they found themselves in.

I’m only halfway through at the mo, but I’m cynical about the CEO. He has obviously allowed cameras in for unprecedented access and, as a result, the documentary is portraying him favourably. The stick Grayson got, was magnified imo to back his decision to sack him. Also, he isn’t shy to slip in the lack of investment from Ellis Short. I’m not saying Grayson or Short were not vilified, of course they were / are, but I think the documentary is elevating Martin Bain to position of good guy in return for the access.

Having said that, it is an excellent documentary and what a season to focus on! They must have thought at the outset it would be following the progress of a successful team as they got promoted.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: KevinGage on December 20, 2018, 02:08:19 AM
Yeah, that CEO came across as a bit slick to me.

The scenes with him bombing about in a car felt a bit like an Audi advert.

The premise of this (or the idea that was put to the club) was to chart their journey back to the top flight. Seems like that's what he envisaged as well. Seemed quite comfortable playing up to the camera.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2018, 04:27:19 PM
As much as Xia fucked it up in the end at least we didn’t do a Sunderland. There are massive similarities between us and where we could have ended up. And at no point however bad it got did we ever see mass walk outs. Mind you the funniest walk out was when a Tim Nice But Dim Villa side put the boot to Poyet.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 20, 2018, 04:37:25 PM
We had mass walk-outs on a regular basis during our relegation season. I remember the "out the door on 74" campaign and moaning because I didn't want to have to stay that long.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 21, 2018, 03:06:55 PM
And when we didn't have mass walkouts we hurled beachballs onto the pitch......cringe.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 21, 2018, 05:31:47 PM
That was funny. Nice and self-deprecating, and it annoyed the Geordies.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 24, 2018, 11:16:32 PM
What I always find amazing is how much optimism there is everywhere at the start of the season. This is a team that went down again without a fight yet you have Cattermole talking about winning it all. I’m sure it wouldn’t be any different if they did one on us at the start of last season. Football can be so elating and uplifting with soul crushing just around the corner at all times.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: brontebilly on December 26, 2018, 02:19:41 AM
Entertaining show thus far. Bain comes across a bit David Brent esque I must say, complaining about mercenaries with his rolex watches, range rover and 1.2m salary. Grabban comes across as a right mercenary too, whinging about being taken off before leaving. Documentary does nothing for the future career prospects of Grayson or Coleman either it must be said. Rodwell, their Micah. We really missed out on dumping McCormack on them.

Their story mirrors ours in a way, circling the relegation drain for a number of years, chronic mismanagement at board level, absentee American owner, big fan base, collection of waifs and strays on the playing staff (Nyland would have been an improvement on their keepers).

If Lerner had stayed that would have been us, without doubt.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: darren woolley on January 14, 2019, 04:27:21 PM
I've watched the first 5 episodes so far.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cheltenhamlion on January 15, 2019, 09:02:24 AM
There are some uncomfortable similarities.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: darren woolley on January 23, 2019, 09:06:47 AM
Finished watching all the episodes now.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 27, 2019, 06:31:34 PM
There are some uncomfortable similarities.

loads. Had Lerner remained he'd have been our Ellis Short as we sunk without trace into League One. Rodwell is their Richards. Darron Gibson...well we've had a few of those. Shit goalkeeping - check. Shit defending - check. Players getting injured when we need them most - check, money spunked away on complete shit - lots of checks.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: London Villan on January 27, 2019, 06:51:05 PM
For all of Steve Bruce’s faults he stopped us from being like Sunderland.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: AVH87 on February 20, 2019, 11:19:26 PM
Interesting watch. They are filming Series 2 at the moment, probably hoping it will culminate in promotion which was the original plan with showing Series 1. Alternatively it could end up with a fan trying to fight Jack Ross in the car park.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cdbullyweefan on February 21, 2019, 09:11:39 AM
No problem with Sunderland, but hoping they fuck up promotion as it will make series two more interesting.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Damo70 on February 21, 2019, 10:36:25 AM
The first documentary of this kind I remember watching was 'City' when I was a kid. Behind the scenes at Manchester City towards the end of Malcolm Allison's reign and at the start of John Bond's reign in 1980.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: AV82EC on February 25, 2019, 07:59:15 PM
The first documentary of this kind I remember watching was 'City' when I was a kid. Behind the scenes at Manchester City towards the end of Malcolm Allison's reign and at the start of John Bond's reign in 1980.

I remember that even though my dad wouldn’t let me watch it, famous for I think Allison’s row in training with I think Tueart and Daley after they’d just been stuffed at Anfield.

Of course I remember Allison rocking up at VP with Bristol Rovers back in the early 90s in the swan song of his career and giving it the big one the fedora wearing c***. Shame really as he was a very forward looking coach in his younger days in fact didn’t he learn his trade under Joe Mercer?
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 26, 2019, 11:15:59 PM
Yes.

Sadly, Allison was a coach, not a manager.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cheltenhamlion on March 05, 2019, 05:23:09 PM
I recall one about Sheffield United in about 1990 as well. And they had one on the Blues as well didn't they?
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 14, 2019, 10:13:36 PM
The small heath documentary was comedy gold, pretty sure that one covered the 93/94 season as I remember it included the Kiddy cup game.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 05:13:11 PM
Looks like the new Sunderland owner will soon be the ex Sunderland owner. Season 2 of this one should be good.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 26, 2019, 04:56:07 PM
Going to have a sad ending to season 2
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Pete3206 on May 26, 2019, 05:49:07 PM
Going to have a sad funny ending to season 2
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Richard E on May 26, 2019, 06:11:56 PM
Going to have a sad funny ending to season 2


I’ve put my schadenfreude into cold storage until tomorrow is safely out of the way.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Seb_AVFC on April 05, 2020, 07:22:13 AM
Anyone seen season 2? This Will Grigg deal, unbelievable...
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Somniloquism on April 05, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
That Charlie fella being told off by his wife at Wembley was really really funny. And was it his assistant who was sacked / left the episode before they sold Maja?

And the will Grigg thing had similar overtones to me to our purchase of Scott Hogan. Rushed through on transfer deadline day with the manager wanted someone who actually didn’t fit the style of play we played.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: TaxDodger on April 05, 2020, 10:41:20 AM
That Charlie fella being told off by his wife at Wembley was really really funny. And was it his assistant who was sacked / left the episode before they sold Maja?

And the will Grigg thing had similar overtones to me to our purchase of Scott Hogan. Rushed through on transfer deadline day with the manager wanted someone who actually didn’t fit the style of play we played.

Their chairman thinking Wigan were 'taking the piss' for not rolling over and letting Sunderland easily sign their best player was amusing. That Charlie person comes over as being very dislikeable.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: PeterWithe on April 05, 2020, 09:45:44 PM
Watched the first two tonight, bit disappointed to be honest, the new owners aren’t nearly as mental as I’d been led to believe, just normal middle managers peddling the normal stuff.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 05, 2020, 10:51:24 PM
I think I'm going soft as I ended up feeling sorry for them this time. From experience, finally getting relegated when you've known you're going down virtually all season is easy to deal with. Losing a playoff final is a kick in the bollocks. I only watched the first episode and the last two, though.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: JD on April 06, 2020, 12:46:15 AM
I really felt for them at the end and you could see how devastated their fans were.

Losing at Wembley is cruel, but losing there twice in a season is gut wrenching.

   
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on April 06, 2020, 08:26:27 PM
I enjoyed the programme and I felt sorry for them too. Apparently they’ve lost all of their last 7 games at Wembley.

It reminded me of last May before our final as our train pulled in at Wembley Stadium station en route to Marylebone. Hundreds of excited Villa fans were disembarking whilst a couple of Sunderland fans were boarding the train. They looked absolutely broken and I felt sorry for them then too.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: dcdavecollett on April 06, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
Strange, that.

We were staying in Watford the night before the play-off final. In came a couple of Mackems -and we couldn't tell from their demeanour/body language whether they'd won or lost.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: JD on April 07, 2020, 08:07:12 AM
Strange, that.

We were staying in Watford the night before the play-off final. In came a couple of Mackems -and we couldn't tell from their demeanour/body language whether they'd won or lost.

They were probably numb with alcohol by then Dave.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Brassneck on April 07, 2020, 03:53:36 PM
I'm about 4 or 5 episodes into series 1.  I never bothered with it when it first came out.

I'm enjoying it.  It reminds me of the mess we were in towards the end of the Lerner reign and also how lucky we were to have been bought out by the guys who  currently own the club.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: LukeJames on April 07, 2020, 04:01:55 PM
Its a real insight, I think the 2nd season is even better than the 1st.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 07, 2020, 05:17:09 PM
Strange, that.

We were staying in Watford the night before the play-off final. In came a couple of Mackems -and we couldn't tell from their demeanour/body language whether they'd won or lost.

They were probably numb with alcohol by then Dave.

Reminds me of a time when I was changing trains in Manchester and ended up getting one with loads of Huddersfield fans post playoff final. Honestly couldn't tell if they'd won or lost. Asked the bloke next to me what had happened, Peterborough had beaten them. I commiserated but no need as turned out he was only Peterborough fan on the train.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 07, 2020, 05:26:14 PM
Re Sunderland 'til I die. Enjoyed this season more I think, maybe it's just filling the footy void. Also felt sorry for them with the two Wembley defeats. I don't know why it takes them so long to produce it though. A lot more has happened since the show finishes. The owner is now being forced out himself I understand which I guess isn't a surprise given he basically admits he doesn't have enough money for it.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 07, 2020, 05:49:35 PM
Well I liked the owner and his sidekick.  Okay Methven comes across as ruthless and arrogant but he is also trying to get across they cannot keep being run they were.  And I think they were genuinely interested in bringing success to the club.  They came very close and still might do and I hope they do.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 08, 2020, 01:50:41 PM
In both seasons one and two it’s watching the hope and optimism slowly being extinguished that is hardest to watch and most relatable. We could very well have been them.
Title: Re: Sunderland Till I Die Documentary’
Post by: dcdavecollett on April 08, 2020, 11:03:39 PM
...if not for Steve Bruce! (I can't believe I just typed that!!)
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal