Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: BC Villain on February 28, 2017, 10:44:05 PM
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Not sure if anyone's seen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/02/28/aston-villa-warned-bullying-young-players-u-23-coach-kevin-macdonald/
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I hope they get rid of him.
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Byline is attributed to none other than " Paul Hayward, Sports Writer of the Year ", so The Torygraph must think there are fish to fry.
Seems thin gruel, on the face of it.
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
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Might go some way towards explaining why we seem to have become such a toxic club in recent years. I hoped we were the good guys when it came to stuff like this and that for all Randy' ineptitude that was something in his favour.
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More evidence of how bad things have been at the club.
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I hope they get rid of him.
His position will be untenable, surely?
Just another example of how poorly the club has been run pre the Doc
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Didn't Culverhouse & Karsa go over similar allegations?
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An utter bellend. Should be ousted.
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Disgrace, should be fired.
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Poor lambs
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Playing devils advocate here.
Could it be a case of player and parents being over sensitive?
The fact it went so far would indicate not, but, I think some parents just want to hear how good their kid is and don't like it when a few home truths are told.
I've sat by the dug out at Next Gen games, so I know he's pretty brusque, to say the least.
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
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I think those of us who have had family in the academy over the years can attest to quite a few of the allegations.
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This is very disappointing news.
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On Saturday I discovered that Arsenal youth play training matches quite close to my flat. They appeared to be playing Swansea on Saturday so I stopped to watch. My main observation, other than I was a lot further from being a pro footballer that I thought, was how calm and positive their coach was. Similarly there were no parents on the touchline.
It was a bit bizarre and exactly how you'd imagine the Arsenal set up to be.
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Playing devils advocate here.
Could it be a case of player and parents being over sensitive?
The fact it went so far would indicate not, but, I think some parents just want to hear how good their kid is and don't like it when a few home truths are told.
I've sat by the dug out at Next Gen games, so I know he's pretty brusque, to say the least.
It's a fair point. Anyone who gets involved in youth coaching at any level is aware that some parents can be utter bellends.
There's two sides to every story and obviously in this day and age authorities always ere heavily on the side of caution.
Swearing at players? Come on, who hasn't had coaches who have done that?
Of course it may all be entirely true and he may be a heinous bastard and genuine bully. Equally, it's may be possible that he's a bit old fashioned / robust in some of his methods and this has been blown out of proportion. I think without being there or speaking directly to people who were it is really difficult to judge.
Hopefully the club will have a fuller picture based on more than a newspaper article and will make the right decision for the right reasons.
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I think those of us who have had family in the academy over the years can attest to quite a few of the allegations.
Without divulging too much, in your opinion was it the whole culture at that level or are a couple of individual coaches to blame?
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Listening and reading what KW has come out with recently, I have faith in him to do the right thing. He seems to get the club and have the authority to do the right thing, irrespective of sentiment. Kmac's reputation has been tarnished here over the last couple of years and regardless of whether he is in the right or wrong in this instance, I dont think he is the future of the club.
He was held in such high regard 5-10 years ago though
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
..and at Southampton in the League Cup
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
..and at Southampton in the League Cup
A couple of games in charge of the most dysfunctional and poorest quality Villa team in decades shouldn't define a 10+ year career at the club.
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Bannan and that crop of contemporaries would often praise MacDonald quite a lot when they had come through. When you're winning and on an upward curve I guess everything is rosy.
I thought he had left the club for Forest or Swindon a couple of years ago.
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Didn't realise the chump was still with us to be honest.
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According to this article in today's Times, it appears that the ' bullying' culture is not limited to Mac Donald, although his general demeanour and erratic behaviour in the dugout at Reserve Games has been commented on in the past , and not only by some of our fans but writers on other Club sites reporting on those games...........Godzvilla!
“League officials are expected to have a regular presence in the club over the coming months to assess the club’s progress with implementing these actions. Failure to do so could have significant ramifications for the club.”
Villa were also accused in the letter of showing “a lack of focus on player welfare, [and] failure by the club to implement its procedures and poor communications” in their management of the complaints. It said that the club “did not keep you informed during the investigation process and failed to provide you with an outcome despite repeated attempts by you over several months to get one”.
Villa said that they had co-operated fully with the investigation, adding: “The club also welcomes the Premier League’s comments that there has been a significant improvement since the change at the top level of the club.”
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I think of general concern is the following taken from the article 'Poor leadership and coaching are also alleged'. If this accusation is aimed at MacDonald rather than Villa as a whole then I think his position must be under threat.
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
..and at Southampton in the League Cup
A couple of games in charge of the most dysfunctional and poorest quality Villa team in decades shouldn't define a 10+ year career at the club.
No, the fact he sabotaged, in my opinion, Garde's start to his Villa career.
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
..and at Southampton in the League Cup
A couple of games in charge of the most dysfunctional and poorest quality Villa team in decades shouldn't define a 10+ year career at the club.
No, the fact he sabotaged, in my opinion, Garde's start to his Villa career.
yeah, I'm sure that was exactly what he had in mind.
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Whatever it takes to flush the stink out of this club, it needs to be clean and fresh by the end of this season if we want to function as an actual football club next season.
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Whatever it takes to flush the stink out of this club, it needs to be clean and fresh by the end of this season if we want to function as an actual football club next season.
Agreed. A bit of balling and shouting when necessary can be a good thing but belittling and personal insults are counter productive and the type of thing only an utter arse hole would resort to. Fuck him off.
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Kinda surprised he is still about, as one of Rounds' first jobs should have been to take stock of what we already had and identify problem areas. For this to escalate this far it should have been easy to spot.
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Easy to spot by who though? The last few years no one has given a shit, the club has been an irrelevance to most people apart from picking up a pay packet, no one cared and the standards slipped to an appalling level. There has been no love or pride in Aston Villa.
We haven't produced many decent players during the last 10 years anyway, so on that basis he should be moved on, nevermind if he is a bullying wanker.
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Kinda surprised he is still about, as one of Rounds' first jobs should have been to take stock of what we already had and identify problem areas. For this to escalate this far it should have been easy to spot.
I guess it depends when this is from. I'm guessing given some of the background of changes to senior management at the club etc that this was from some time ago.
It doesn't sound good for MacDonald and if true, he needs to go.
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
..and at Southampton in the League Cup
A couple of games in charge of the most dysfunctional and poorest quality Villa team in decades shouldn't define a 10+ year career at the club.
Sounds like he's got more to be concerned about than just those horrendous team selections....
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Whatever the truth is out there it will cause the club massive damage with recruitment. Youngsters will be looking at alternative clubs and news travels fast. The best thing McDonald could do is resign and I hate people losing their jobs, but the future of the villa is at stake
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Isn't this part of the broader issue of Villa being unprofessional, dysfunctional & out of date?
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Whatever the truth is out there it will cause the club massive damage with recruitment. Youngsters will be looking at alternative clubs and news travels fast. The best thing McDonald could do is resign and I hate people losing their jobs, but the future of the villa is at stake
Exactly my thoughts. If you're a parent of the next big talent and you're talking to clubs in our bracket how off putting is all this going to be.
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The c*** should have been sacked after spuds away
Why is he still employed?
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He plummeted in my estimation that night at WHL.
Agreed.
..and at Southampton in the League Cup
A couple of games in charge of the most dysfunctional and poorest quality Villa team in decades shouldn't define a 10+ year career at the club.
No, the fact he sabotaged, in my opinion, Garde's start to his Villa career.
yeah, I'm sure that was exactly what he had in mind.
Over a thousand posts, how about giving a little dosh to the site!
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What a strange retort!
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What a strange retort!
Perhaps, it was just on my mind.
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Not directly related but a detailed analysis of how other clubs approach youth football:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/longform_manchester_cold_war
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What a strange retort!
Perhaps, it was just on my mind.
How do you know he hasn't? I've given cash before and asked not to have the golden muppet next to me.
Which has also reminded me I promised Mr Woodhall is donate again a while back and I don't think I did.
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Isn't this part of the broader issue of Villa being unprofessional, dysfunctional & out of date?
Yes, mediocrity and more tolerated at all levels. After Lambert's mates were fired for bullying, of which the facts have never emerged?, it beggars belief that this was allowed to go unchecked until the FA got involved.
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https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1163858322346393600
Aston Villa can confirm that Kevin MacDonald has left his position as Head of Football Development with immediate effect.
Mr MacDonald had been reallocated to non-player facing duties pending completion of an independent investigation into allegations published in The Guardian newspaper in December 2018 about his past conduct. That investigation, carried out by barrister Jack Mitchell, has now concluded and the results delivered to the Board. As the report forms part of an employee disciplinary process, the Club is unable to provide details in public although copies of Mr Mitchell’s investigation have been provided to The FA, Premier League and statutory authorities.
Mr Mitchell appealed for individuals to come forward to give evidence and we are especially grateful to those former players who assisted him in his investigation.
Aston Villa wishes to apologise to all former players who were affected by behaviour which would not be tolerated by the Club today.
Our approach to safeguarding is now unrecognisable from the past and has been described as excellent in recent EFL and Ofsted audits.
The Club will now begin a search for his successor.
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Nobody to blame but himself.
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https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1163858322346393600
Aston Villa can confirm that Kevin MacDonald has left his position as Head of Football Development with immediate effect.
Mr MacDonald had been reallocated to non-player facing duties pending completion of an independent investigation into allegations published in The Guardian newspaper in December 2018 about his past conduct. That investigation, carried out by barrister Jack Mitchell, has now concluded and the results delivered to the Board. As the report forms part of an employee disciplinary process, the Club is unable to provide details in public although copies of Mr Mitchell’s investigation have been provided to The FA, Premier League and statutory authorities.
Mr Mitchell appealed for individuals to come forward to give evidence and we are especially grateful to those former players who assisted him in his investigation.
Aston Villa wishes to apologise to all former players who were affected by behaviour which would not be tolerated by the Club today.
Our approach to safeguarding is now unrecognisable from the past and has been described as excellent in recent EFL and Ofsted audits.
The Club will now begin a search for his successor.
Ouch. Sounds like he was banged to rights.
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Horrendous bloke. Good riddance, hope he never works again.
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Good riddance to that wanker. Nasty piece of work and bottled the opportunity of a lifetime.
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An episode that reflects terribly on him and badly on the club. The idea that treating people like shit helps make them better footballers is mystifying to me. And it's equally mystifying that this idea was in practice so recently. Anyway, it seems that the club realised significant changes needed to be made and made them.
Hopefully this latest bit of news means we can draw a line under the whole thing.
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The mask slipped when he fielded the Fuck You XI against Spurs when he was supposed to be healing the wounds.
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Ta ra a bit. Wanker. How many kids were negatively affected by him you wonder that could have been so much more.
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A tool who can fuck off along with too many others over the last decade
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As an employer myself the big thing for me is how long it took to get him out of the building and even then having to get the services of a barrister as well.
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As an employer myself the big thing for me is how long it took to get him out of the building and even then having to get the services of a barrister as well.
I know we have a couple of employment lawyers on here, who can correct my no doubt ignorant assumptions, but surely that apology amounts an admission of liability, which would surely cost a few quid? Not that the club shouldn't pay compensation to any victims identified, mind.
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Claims would generally be statute barred by now, although in certain circumstances the Court can extend time.
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Claims would generally be statute barred by now, although in certain circumstances the Court can extend time.
I love it when you talk barred statutes.
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You can bar my statutes anytime.
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I remember when it was just called scaffolding. Great days.
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The FA should bring in a rule that compels clubs to include in youth squads two or three big, hard lads regardless of their football ability whose responsibility would be to twat bully coaches.
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I have no insight into what went on but but my instincts tell me it's good riddance to the fucker. The couple of times he had the chance to pick the team it was almost as if he picked the team out of pure malevolence.
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Wanker. He pulled the wool over many ppls eyes and we as fans were blind to this. Good riddance.
Very good to see the new regime will not tolerate this kind of conduct, and hope those affected are looked after via suitable compensation and counselling (depending on the level of abuse and if required).
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No wonder players like Albrighton achieved so much more after moving away. Arseholes like MacDonald have obviously been a key part of the toxic atmosphere around the club for a while now, tarnishing our name and wrecking our ability to compete. Thank god he's out now, though not soon enough for lives and careers he ruined. Goodbye and go fuck yourself.
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I think you are right The Edge. The first names he put on that Spurs game team sheet was a roll call of the dressing room poisoners.
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You have to wonder about the damage that he did to our club whilst still drawing a salary, old school standards are antiquated and have no place in modern society let alone in a football club.
Hopefully we have no more of his kind still at the club. He’s gone, he can fuck off and will never enter Villa Park again.
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Another example of someone who had the privilege of working for our wonderful football club, and blew it. It is a telling example of the ineptitude of the club management that he was allowed to purvey his miserable influence on our young talent for so long.
Good riddance.
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I think you are right The Edge. The first names he put on that Spurs game team sheet was a roll call of the dressing room poisoners.
Exactly. What a piece of work he is. We can be thankful that our new regime are clearing the decks of crap like this that has dragged us down so long.
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One thing that has been noticeable over the last 6 months has been the togetherness of the squad and coaching staff which undoubtedly had a major bearing on the way the season ended. Getting shot of the likes of him can only be good for the welfare of the club.
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Karsa and Culverhouse were not exactly trail blazers for coaching empathy.
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And to think, had we not lost 6-0 at Newcastle KM may well have got the manager’s job permanently.
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And to think, had we not lost 6-0 at Newcastle KM may well have got the manager’s job permanently.
I think he would have done. General Krulak pretty well said as much on here.
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Am I right in thinking that Gordon Cowans is no longer around. IIRC it was Sid and KMac that managed the underage players to some reasonable levels of success a few years ago.
Maybe Sid will return?
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To me it is typical 60's/70's school teachers bullying - but it didn't happen in that era but much later which is worrying when the world had already woken up that you just can't act in such a fashion.
Surprised it took so long to out and deal with the matter.
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It knocked my journalist son's career back very badly when he refused to interview Jimmy Savile. Such was the level of entrenchment of wrongdoers in our society. I should add that Savile was at the height of his power but the truth about him was widely known by many.
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Good riddance.
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Good riddance.
Seconded.
MacDonald can fuck himself.
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It knocked my journalist son's career back very badly when he refused to interview Jimmy Savile. Such was the level of entrenchment of wrongdoers in our society. I should add that Savile was at the height of his power but the truth about him was widely known by many.
A couple of Christmases ago I got the excellent book 'Headlines Deadlines All My Life' by the brilliant old school sports journalist Norman Giller. He was also involved in some TV script writing including This Is Your Life. He said his biggest regret was going against his principles by helping to script the Saville This Is Your Life despite he and most if not all of the people who worked on the show knowing (or at the very least suspecting) Saville was involved in wrongdoing.
Going back to MacDonald the biggest criticism of Villa is how long it appears MacDonald got away with his unacceptable behaviour.
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I wonder how this will pan out? The club has spent quite some time gathering the information (8 months by the look of it) before the disciplinary but the fact that they are still asking for witnesses to come forward to support their case could mean that they still need more evidence? I'd imagine that MacDonald will fight it (to defend/clear his name) and probably take it to an employment tribunal as it will probably mean he won't get another job (especially in football). I wonder how long this could drag out for and if it will end up in a pay off?
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I wonder how this will pan out? The club has spent quite some time gathering the information (8 months by the look of it) before the disciplinary but the fact that they are still asking for witnesses to come forward to support their case could mean that they still need more evidence?
Or it could be that they know that there are legal cases incoming, so would prefer as many people to come forward so that they can get them sorted as quickly as possible.
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I wonder how this will pan out? The club has spent quite some time gathering the information (8 months by the look of it) before the disciplinary but the fact that they are still asking for witnesses to come forward to support their case could mean that they still need more evidence?
Or it could be that they know that there are legal cases incoming, so would prefer as many people to come forward so that they can get them sorted as quickly as possible.
Ah yes of course. I hadn't thought of the bigger picture and that people might have already started cases against the club before the result of the disciplinary. What a mess.
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We’ll look back on this period of our history as one infected with poisonous players, coaching staff, managers, directors and owners. Some of the stuff that has gone on is unbelievable.
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It knocked my journalist son's career back very badly when he refused to interview Jimmy Savile. Such was the level of entrenchment of wrongdoers in our society. I should add that Savile was at the height of his power but the truth about him was widely known by many.
Good for him, Brian and shocking that he should be the one to suffer while Saville was allowed a free pass.
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It knocked my journalist son's career back very badly when he refused to interview Jimmy Savile. Such was the level of entrenchment of wrongdoers in our society. I should add that Savile was at the height of his power but the truth about him was widely known by many.
Good for him, Brian and shocking that he should be the one to suffer while Saville was allowed a free pass.
I could see me buying your son a lot of drinks if I ever had the pleasure to meet him Brian.
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I'm Brians' son!
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I'm Brians' son!
No I’m Brian’s son 😀
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I'm Brians' son!
Haha! "I'm Spartacus"? Well if so, it would be my pleasure and the offer stands (although I may have to resort to sending you a drink if you're in Cyprus?)
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It knocked my journalist son's career back very badly when he refused to interview Jimmy Savile. Such was the level of entrenchment of wrongdoers in our society. I should add that Savile was at the height of his power but the truth about him was widely known by many.
Out of interest, how did it knock his career back?
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I'm Brians' son!
No I’m Brian’s son 😀
I'm Brians son and so's my wife
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Karsa and Culverhouse were not exactly trail blazers for coaching empathy.
I watched Kings Lynn play at Stourbridge in April and Culverhouse's choice of assistant, Paul Bastock, was a complete arsehole, the sort of verbally abusive, myopic numpty I wouldn't want anywhere near promising footballers.
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No wonder players like Albrighton achieved so much more after moving away. Arseholes like MacDonald have obviously been a key part of the toxic atmosphere around the club for a while now, tarnishing our name and wrecking our ability to compete. Thank god he's out now, though not soon enough for lives and careers he ruined. Goodbye and go fuck yourself.
Didn't Albrighton get his first prem starts when McDonald was caretaker? I also remember likes of Clark, Bannan and Wieman all playing a bit in his six game caretaker spell which I doubt would've happened if MON had stayed.
Anyway that's all a moot point. Main thing for me is he actually went away for a spell to manage Swindon and we actually re-appointed him into the youth set up when he didn't last long as a manager. Wonder if the complaints were back in the 90s/00s or they were more recent ones?
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Am I right in thinking that Gordon Cowans is no longer around. IIRC it was Sid and KMac that managed the underage players to some reasonable levels of success a few years ago.
Maybe Sid will return?
Tony McAndew was also involved, don't know if he's still involved or we let him go aswell as it was said he was also a "hard taskmaster" when the accusations against Kevin McDonald came out.
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I'm Brians' son!
Haha! "I'm Spartacus"? Well if so, it would be my pleasure and the offer stands (although I may have to resort to sending you a drink if you're in Cyprus?)
Cheers!
Yep, working/living in Cyprus; I'm up for a beer (or three) should anyone be passing through Limassol.
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Sorry I have been doing other stuff. I am not really allowed to divulge specifics about my children or my family, most of whom are on here to a greater or lesser degree in different guises. My son Damon is a brilliant journalist with a first class Oxford degree who is honest and upright in every aspect of his life and his career. He calls it as he sees it with the result that promotions in television have been denied him. The Savile story was typical. He refused to interview him, he refused to sit in his "throne" he refused to cover the story of the unveiling of his grave in Scarborough. A more recent example was the story of the Derbyshire dam. It was spun as wonderful heroics by the police and emergency services. The real story was maintenance neglect of the dam. My son left the PR spinners after five days on the dam to do a story about seagulls stealing chips in Blackpool.
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I always enjoy watching him do the sort of ‘and finally’ news items. There was one report he did on oxford Street can’t remember what it was about but I remember him telling me on here the amount of times people had passed him calling him the W word. He took it in great humour.
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Ha, whenever Damon comes on TV my family state "your mates on the tv" even though I have never met him, just because he is a Villa fan who wears ties with our colours from time to time. I do love his reports and its nice to see a mix of serious and not so serious items (such as the seagulls and chips). I now have more to admire about the man for sticking to his principles. I actually know a heart specialist who was also denied promotions because he says it like it is, he is not afraid to tell the truth even when those superior to him think he shouldn't, another wonderful man.
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No wonder players like Albrighton achieved so much more after moving away. Arseholes like MacDonald have obviously been a key part of the toxic atmosphere around the club for a while now, tarnishing our name and wrecking our ability to compete. Thank god he's out now, though not soon enough for lives and careers he ruined. Goodbye and go fuck yourself.
Didn't Albrighton get his first prem starts when McDonald was caretaker? I also remember likes of Clark, Bannan and Wieman all playing a bit in his six game caretaker spell which I doubt would've happened if MON had stayed.
Anyway that's all a moot point. Main thing for me is he actually went away for a spell to manage Swindon and we actually re-appointed him into the youth set up when he didn't last long as a manager. Wonder if the complaints were back in the 90s/00s or they were more recent ones?
One of the main complainants is Gareth Farrelly who was an apprentice back in 1994, so it goes back that far at least.