Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on February 12, 2017, 10:08:02 PM
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Don't blame Dave for that title.
http://thebirminghampress.com/2017/02/whats-it-all-about-ashley/
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I truly hope that people at the club read these reports. They are honest and, dare I say, reflect what the majority of Villa fans think. How much longer can this shit go on? Great article Dave.
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Those last three paragraphs. So true.
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Nothing makes sense. We've got like you say a whole new board room, coaching staff, manager and near enough playing staff and we're still making the same silly mistakes, still treat the ball like a hot potato and have the luck of a cursed fool.
Every manager either young and promising or tried and tested seem to run out of ideas and chose the most unlikely of line ups. I have nothing against 3 at the back and I think it could be used with success, however playing Hutton over Bacunna and not playing Amavi made a mockery of the system.
I have no idea what the problem is or why we can't dominate a match given the players at our disposal, my biggest confusion is why someone with the experience and knowledge in the game such as Bruce who has a proven track record is making such a mess of it since the end of last year.
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The point about players who were generally shite for us, then going on to excel for their next club is bang on and very worrying. Off the top of my head:
Lowton
Clark
Sinclair
Albrighton
Gueye
Even Daren Bent is still banging them in whilst our multi million pond strike force fail to score again.
Add in the players who were previously great, then turned to shite upon joining us (McCormack, Elphick, and to a lesser extent Jedinak) and you start to wonder just what is wrong at our club.
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Marlon, you missed out the much reviled Jordan Veretout who has played very well since having the "get rid" sign hung round his neck at Villa Park.
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And Adama Traore, another singled out for denigration.
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Oh and the unsaid "British managers and players know best theme" that seems to have grabbed hold after Garde's tenure.
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The point about players who were generally shite for us, then going on to excel for their next club is bang on and very worrying. Off the top of my head:
Lowton
Clark
Sinclair
Albrighton
Gueye
Even Daren Bent is still banging them in whilst our multi million pond strike force fail to score again.
Add in the players who were previously great, then turned to shite upon joining us (McCormack, Elphick, and to a lesser extent Jedinak) and you start to wonder just what is wrong at our club.
Dave, A very appropriate and accurate report of the situation at VP.
It surely must be the coaching staff and the manager who has the overall responsibility for picking the team, how its set up, yet they can't apparently find the right format for the players they've now brought in.
Bruce has until the summer to turn things around, otherwise one has to conclude the task's beyond his capabilities.
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When I was watching Ipswich comfortably knocking it around for the first 25 mins of the second half with Villa continually giving it back to them, it could have been any home game in the last five years. It really is incredible how the personnel have completely changed but the pattern remains the same.
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Very true. Hutton is still our main attacking outlet. Everything still going down the right despite the all the changes in manager.
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The Villa job seems to be a lead weight that attaches itself to whoever dreams that they are the one that will bring greatness back to Villa Park. It shows how far we have fallen when I watched Lowton yesterday and wished he was still playing for us.
I don't pretend to be able to fathom the thinking of Bruce but we are looking reminiscent of the side that got relegated from the premiership and I would rather have a cohort of three members of this site to pick and set up the team on match day, they could do no worse.
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Marlon, you missed out the much reviled Jordan Veretout who has played very well since having the "get rid" sign hung round his neck at Villa Park.
Correct Brian. I thought Veretout and Traore would've been fantastic in the Championship but it appears neither fancied it.
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They would have fancied it Marlon if they had been treated better when they were our players. As somebody said haterz gonna hate.
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At this stage, after the past five or so years, I really think it is the pressure and desperation of the fans that is rubbing off on the players. They play with fear and the weight of the world on their shoulders. When opposition managers come to Villa Park, the gameplan is simple - keep things tight for the first forty five minutes, get the home crowd jumpy, then go for it in the second half.
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At this stage, after the past five or so years, I really think it is the pressure and desperation of the fans that is rubbing off on the players. They play with fear and the weight of the world on their shoulders. When opposition managers come to Villa Park, the gameplan is simple - keep things tight for the first forty five minutes, get the home crowd jumpy, then go for it in the second half.
Sorry, but I’m not buying that. I was with my kids at both the Xmas home fixtures in the Holte End and saw no signs of the crowds nervousness affecting play. Like every other person on here, I can’t fathom what the hell is going wrong and how it is that no matter what we try it never seems to work, but I don’t think that the very long suffering and very patient fans are a reason.
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Players performing better after they leave is down to one or more of not being asked to play a system that doesn't suit them, not playing with fear, working with better players, working with players that have a better attitude, playing at a club that has a better atmosphere behind the scenes at the training ground and away from there. There are probably others that I have missed.
The playing system is the more obvious one and once Lambert went to the slow possession football that went nowhere, we haven't been able to shake off the low tempo, with the exception of those few weeks with Sherwood. There must be more too it than that, though. Is there something we are not seeing that is dragging the players down and which ultimately drags the manager down as well.
We have to be more positive to improve and that starts with the team set up. I know that it starts getting on to dangerous ground but the powers to be need to step in and tell the manager the style they want to see the club going forward with. Promotion is way beyond us now, so we have some time to take a new approach. If the manager doesn't like it, get somebody in whose profile fits the approach the club want to go forward with. Fans are getting to the end of their patience.
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I do think tempo plays a big part. I wish we would close down round the pitch much better than we do. Bruce doesn't seem to have that philosophy but when I see teams like Spurs do it, I always feel they are on the front foot, forcing mistakes, getting the crowd behind them, generating a momentum.
On Saturday we only really forced the game in the first and last 15 minutes. The rest of the game was played at the pace of a training session which suits teams coming to VP.
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Players performing better after they leave is down to one or more of not being asked to play a system that doesn't suit them, not playing with fear, working with better players, working with players that have a better attitude, playing at a club that has a better atmosphere behind the scenes at the training ground and away from there. There are probably others that I have missed.
The playing system is the more obvious one and once Lambert went to the slow possession football that went nowhere, we haven't been able to shake off the low tempo, with the exception of those few weeks with Sherwood. There must be more too it than that, though. Is there something we are not seeing that is dragging the players down and which ultimately drags the manager down as well.
We have to be more positive to improve and that starts with the team set up. I know that it starts getting on to dangerous ground but the powers to be need to step in and tell the manager the style they want to see the club going forward with. Promotion is way beyond us now, so we have some time to take a new approach. If the manager doesn't like it, get somebody in whose profile fits the approach the club want to go forward with. Fans are getting to the end of their patience.
top bit I'd add, as a key one, knowing what's expected of them. The answer to that is in the last paragraph, we desperately need the board to work out what we're supposed to be. we need a strong leader at board level to start saying "we don't do that, it's not the villa way" and pushing us back towards the style we want to see. I suspect, for most fans, that is high tempo, aggressive defence and moving the ball forward quickly with 1-2 touches passes and getting plenty of shots away.
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Good read Dave.
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At this stage, after the past five or so years, I really think it is the pressure and desperation of the fans that is rubbing off on the players. They play with fear and the weight of the world on their shoulders. When opposition managers come to Villa Park, the gameplan is simple - keep things tight for the first forty five minutes, get the home crowd jumpy, then go for it in the second half.
I have to say that I think this is bang on the money. I think it's the weight of expectation that seems to do for anyone that walks through the hallowed entrance to Villa Park. There's riches both financially and legacy wise to be had by whoever can crack the code and unlock the huge potential at Aston Villa Football Club.
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I do think tempo plays a big part. I wish we would close down round the pitch much better than we do. Bruce doesn't seem to have that philosophy but when I see teams like Spurs do it, I always feel they are on the front foot, forcing mistakes, getting the crowd behind them, generating a momentum.
On Saturday we only really forced the game in the first and last 15 minutes. The rest of the game was played at the pace of a training session which suits teams coming to VP.
Which suggests Bruce sends them out with the intention to play hi-tempo but for some reason they go into their shell. I have seen enough to see that Hourihan and Lansbury care passionately but no one individual can change the mentality - it has to be a full team effort and there lies the problem. Bruce is no mug, neither is Calderwood, but they are struggling to turn this lot into a team. Xia and everyone else is preaching patience which is fine, but when you see other teams with a new manager looking like a team from day one (e.g. Reading, who have nothing like the players we have, yet Stam keeps getting results) it doesn't cut the mustard for me.
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At this stage, after the past five or so years, I really think it is the pressure and desperation of the fans that is rubbing off on the players. They play with fear and the weight of the world on their shoulders. When opposition managers come to Villa Park, the gameplan is simple - keep things tight for the first forty five minutes, get the home crowd jumpy, then go for it in the second half.
I have to say that I think this is bang on the money. I think it's the weight of expectation that seems to do for anyone that walks through the hallowed entrance to Villa Park. There's riches both financially and legacy wise to be had by whoever can crack the code and unlock the huge potential at Aston Villa Football Club.
It really shouldn't be the truth but you do wonder if there is something in it. We, the fans, are the only constant.
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The weight of expectation if you follow that logically were heading towards the Vanarama. Great article Dave we need a higher tempo that comes down to certain fitness levels
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It really shouldn't be the truth but you do wonder if there is something in it. We, the fans, are the only constant.
Except Gabby.
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The most recent games have been straight out of the Alex McLeish handbook. Negative, turgid, ugly football that considers a drawn game to be a victory because we did not lose. Our players play badly because they are scared of losing.
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The most recent games have been straight out of the Alex McLeish handbook. Negative, turgid, ugly football that considers a drawn game to be a victory because we did not lose. Our players play badly because they are scared of losing.
One point victories were Lambert's raison d'etre.
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The most recent games have been straight out of the Alex McLeish handbook. Negative, turgid, ugly football that considers a drawn game to be a victory because we did not lose. Our players play badly because they are scared of losing.
Is this the result of appointing old school managers
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The most recent games have been straight out of the Alex McLeish handbook. Negative, turgid, ugly football that considers a drawn game to be a victory because we did not lose. Our players play badly because they are scared of losing.
Shuddering at the memory. He even parked the bus for low scoring defeats.
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/gubFfa/mcdim.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gubFfa)
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Not sure our ex players are exactly excelling at other clubs. Many of those mentioned are doing ok at lower end PL, or other Champo clubs or the mickey mouse league up north. Some of them left us when our ambition was to be better than lower end PL, because they weren't deemed to be good enough to move us up the table. Just because we replaced them with worse players doesn't suddenly make me nostalgic for them. Especially Clark who rivalled Elphick for clangers, and Westwood. I dare say Burnley did ok despite him, not because of him. When we do eventually go back up we will need better than lot lot to make any reasonable progress.
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I think it's the pressure of expectation+ surely many of us have experienced it to some degree when in a cup semi final and expected to win, or in a final against a relegation candidate. You want it so bad that you over do everything or under-do everything. Passes go astray and you get more and more edgy, in the end not wanting the ball. It's pressure, in my eyes as none of these new players - as far as I can think - have come from bigger clubs and they can't hack it when things go wrong.
We need a new " leader " on the field IMO.
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The common theme with managers going back to sherwood is that none of them have had much time in the job, relatively speaking, to find a system that works for them and get the best out of the players they have at their disposal. Plus whilst they're trying to do this, they're under huge pressure to get results.
Add to this the wholesale changes in playing staff that occurs each transfer window and you're effectively looking at half a new team twice a season. It's no wonder that things haven't clicked. We've effectively gone back to square one with the squad we have now after the January window and we're only into the third week in Feb.
The players we've signed on paper should be able to outperform most of the others in the championship, but none of them are likely to be world beaters. So to expect an instant turnaround in such a short space of time seems unrealistic to my mind.
If you are up against a side that are settled, playing an established way with everyone well drilled and with high fitness levels, it doesn't seem much of a surprise that we are struggling whatever the name of the opposition club happens to be. Things will improve, I'm sure of it, but the thing we need most right now is time and that's something that you can't buy, however many billions you have in the bank.
We've got to just write this season off now and work towards getting an established system and team to come out firing next season. If it means more experimenting then fair enough. I realised this after the forest defeat and when I look at it that way, it makes it a lot easier to deal with.