Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: trevor fisher on February 06, 2017, 09:58:30 AM
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tony xia responded to rumour's Steve Bruce was about to be sacked with the tweet "No more s**t rumours. We stick on our 5-10 year plan no matter how hard. The beginning is always the most difficult". If this is a confirmation Bruce is not to be sacked it is good news. He's just bought the players he asked for, so it is now down to him. He has till the end of the season at least to show he can build for promotion.
But what is the plan Mr Xia? If its over 5-10 years can we see it? And did it include sacking Di Matteo, whose appointment was I assume part of the plan? If fans are expected to back the club at a time of decline, how about letting us know what scheme is in place to make things better - please?
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I think a little patience is needed especially following the latest transfer window, and demanding to know what scheme is in place doesn't really help matters when it's pretty obvious that what needs to be done is getting these players on the training ground and give them time to develop into a team. The only scheme that is required right now is time on the training ground.
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if this shit carries on he won't be here another five months, let alone five years.
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Pretty sure the plan did not include getting ripped apart by Brentford and comming off second best to Cardiff Wolves Forest etc
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I think a little patience is needed especially following the latest transfer window, and demanding to know what scheme is in place doesn't really help matters when it's pretty obvious that what needs to be done is getting these players on the training ground and give them time to develop into a team. The only scheme that is required right now is time on the training ground.
Absolutely, my concern is that I'm not sure Bruce is the right choice. How we're playing now isn't a million miles from how Bruce's teams always play, the only real difference is that the defence is leakier than he's made it at other clubs. When he came in I expected lots of 0-0 and 1-0 games with 75-80 minutes of keeping it tight and trying to snatch it at the end. If he was delivering that I'd still find the lack of attacking threat frustrating in the games we didn't win but I'd accept that he was doing what he does but the pressure to show he can do more than inspire an underdog to battling victories seems to be too much for him.
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Xia can't be blamed for what's happening on the pitch currently, he's bought in 2 managers who have enjoyed a fair degree of success at this level and changed the infrastructure which has resulted in us buying up virtually a team full of players who have done well at this level, some of them very recently and some of them for big money. I'm not sure what else anyone expects him to do. Any business will have a plan for down the line, in life you can't expect it to just happen, sometimes it takes time.
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Hows about everybody stop pissing their pants and give the owner, management and team chance to get things right.
He has been here less than four months and had 3 games to get a virtually brand new team playing together. Its only my opinion but i think going up this season would have been too early based on the mess the club was in. I dont want to be a yoyo club who's aim is to avoid relegation and finish above the albion
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Hows about everybody stop pissing their pants and give the owner, management and team chance to get things right.
He has been here less than four months and had 3 games to get a virtually brand new team playing together. Its only my opinion but i think going up this season would have been too early based on the mess the club was in. I dont want to be a yoyo club who's aim is to avoid relegation and finish above the albion
Agree 100%
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Hows about everybody stop pissing their pants and give the owner, management and team chance to get things right.
He has been here less than four months and had 3 games to get a virtually brand new team playing together. Its only my opinion but i think going up this season would have been too early based on the mess the club was in. I dont want to be a yoyo club who's aim is to avoid relegation and finish above the albion
Far too sensible
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Though it's our team to love, to both delight in and to cry with, Dr Tony owns the business. We have no right to make any demands. Currently I am simply grateful that he has given us some hope. And it appears to be costing him a bit more than pocket money.
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Which is the most worrying aspect. Significant funds have been invested for little return, at present. There's no such thing in business as a free lunch - sooner rather than later, the good Doctor is going to demand success.
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As always Mr U. Right on the button.
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Hows about everybody stop pissing their pants and give the owner, management and team chance to get things right.
He has been here less than four months and had 3 games to get a virtually brand new team playing together. Its only my opinion but i think going up this season would have been too early based on the mess the club was in. I dont want to be a yoyo club who's aim is to avoid relegation and finish above the albion
Agree 100%
Me too. Far too much impatience nowadays. I think we can all agree Lambert was here too long. Bruce's has not been here long enough.
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Hows about everybody stop pissing their pants and give the owner, management and team chance to get things right.
He has been here less than four months and had 3 games to get a virtually brand new team playing together. Its only my opinion but i think going up this season would have been too early based on the mess the club was in. I dont want to be a yoyo club who's aim is to avoid relegation and finish above the albion
Agree 100%
Me too. Far too much impatience nowadays. I think we can all agree Lambert was here too long. Bruce's has not been here long enough.
He needs at least the rest of this season to sort the players he now has into an effective team. If we weren't all so passionate about our club, I'm sure we'd see it as an interesting project!!!!
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Hows about everybody stop pissing their pants and give the owner, management and team chance to get things right.
He has been here less than four months and had 3 games to get a virtually brand new team playing together. Its only my opinion but i think going up this season would have been too early based on the mess the club was in. I dont want to be a yoyo club who's aim is to avoid relegation and finish above the albion
Couldn't agree more - we need stability in this league before we even think of going up - a preseason where we get these players physically fit would be a start - these 15/16 games are about getting a style sorted & giving us a few goals to watch.
I'm going to say it, I enjoy the Championship - virtually every game has been competitive unlike the one sided bullyings last season. When (not if) we go up I want it to be to give it a go not play cannon fodder again!
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Nobody knows for certain what level of carnage was left behind by Lerner and his flock of merry men. Six years worth of damage is not going to be sorted in the space of a few months. However, I'm confident that the owner has the right people in key positions and is also prepared to listen to the likes of Brian Little to try and get the club back to where we all want it to be. It might take longer than we would like it and as we've seen, it won't be a smooth path.
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I wish I shared in the faith in Dr Tony. From what I have witnessed so far I have no grounds for it. I think he is still learning on the job.
This season seems like an acceleration of the buffoonery that has gone on before- managerial merry go round , constant turnover of players all condenced into one season.
Maybe there is a plan , I'd just like to see some evidence of it.
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I wish I shared in the faith in Dr Tony. From what I have witnessed so far I have no grounds for it. I think he is still learning on the job.
This season seems like an acceleration of the buffoonery that has gone on before- managerial merry go round , constant turnover of players all condenced into one season.
Maybe there is a plan , I'd just like to see some evidence of it.
You honestly believe the managers and all of the players are down to him. Why build a background set up as he has and then make all the decisions. He is picking up the bill and giving his team directions on what he wants to achieve but the detail is down to the backroom team.
I think people are confusing his comments on Twitter with the day to day running of the club.
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surely there can only be one plan for any football club
win as many games as you can or am I wrong
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I think you have a point there.
And now he has a good boardroom structure in place with Wyness, Little and Round...plus...a better manager, fingers crossed he can wean himself off Twitter.
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/7c/33/bd7c33fcf48d5cfcc546e45c27a567ec.jpg)
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surely there can only be one plan for any football club
win as many games as you can or am I wrong
1. buy club
2. ?
3. win lots of games (PROFIT!!)
I think you really need to fill the gap for it to be a viable plan and that's the difficult bit.
If anyone doesn't get the reference just google underpants gnomes.
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'You honestly believe the managers and all of the players are down to him. '
No that would be a rather nieve view. The structure that has led to more of the same is however. I repeat not much evidence of a plan so far.
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I agree with passport 1. Not much sign of a plan so far. The original question stands - please could the owner tell us what the 5-10 year plan actually is.
Having said that, I don't expect it so be set in stone, and the rule of the BRitish ARmy is a good one - no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
Reality is you have to adjust to what is happening on the ground. I don't think Di Matteo did, I have more faith in Bruce. Happy to give him and Xia more time. But I still want to know what the plan is - even though they may be adapting it, as reality kicks in.
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I agree with passport 1. Not much sign of a plan so far. The original question stands - please could the owner tell us what the 5-10 year plan actually is.
Having said that, I don't expect it so be set in stone, and the rule of the BRitish ARmy is a good one - no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
Reality is you have to adjust to what is happening on the ground. I don't think Di Matteo did, I have more faith in Bruce. Happy to give him and Xia more time. But I still want to know what the plan is - even though they may be adapting it, as reality kicks in.
the plan is to be a top 3 in the world club within 5 years isn't it? :-)
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honestly, we won't get promoted this season (personally i never thought we would given the change in ownership and the fact we were abysmal last season and there has been a malaise over the last few years, it was never going to change in a few weeks) but we need to show a clear improvement between now and the end of the season and pick up momentum, have a positive summer, for a promotion push next season.
next season is key. if we don't get promoted, FFP will start to bite and it'll get a lot worse before it gets better.
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One thing that is certain to me is that Dr Xia's heart is in the right place and he genuinely wants the best for our great club.
Not sure he has been advised terribly well, particularly around RDM and has player signings. Now I think he is being let down somewhat by players who ought to know better and a manager who seems to be struggling.
Anyway, early days with the current squad let's judge at the end of the season.
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If there are any signs of a plan it will become apparent longer term rather than right now.
Not sure there is much else he could have done so far other than back his new manager/s with money. If he hadn't backed Di Matteo you can be sure he would have been hammered for being a charlatan and a bullshitter. If he hadn't of backed Bruce then he would have hung him out to dry.
To be fair to him, he's stumped up the cash, there shouldn't be much spend in the summer at all, it's now down to the rest of them to start doing their jobs properly. The coaches, the manager, the assistants, all of them have got to mould together what we have instead of throwing endless cash at the problem which is sometimes a lot closer to home.
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If there are any signs of a plan it will become apparent longer term rather than right now.
Not sure there is much else he could have done so far other than back his new manager/s with money. If he hadn't backed Di Matteo you can be sure he would have been hammered for being a charlatan and a bullshitter. If he hadn't of backed Bruce then he would have hung him out to dry.
To be fair to him, he's stumped up the cash, there shouldn't be much spend in the summer at all, it's now down to the rest of them to start doing their jobs properly. The coaches, the manager, the assistants, all of them have got to mould together what we have instead of throwing endless cash at the problem which is sometimes a lot closer to home.
Agree completely with that. I think a lot of the plan also involves getting things like the academy and the scouting systems back to where they should be so as you say, the signs of that can only be visible long-term.
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The thing which has been most interesting in the last few months has been the feedback from the supporter forums which Amfy has attended and posted on here. It sounds like a lot of the changes being made are not immediately visible but have been necessary because of the mess the club was in before.
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paul_e
1_ buy club
2_ win games
3_ win more games
simples
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1. Collect underpants.
2.?
3. Win European Cup
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1_ collect underpants
2_???
3_ chicken Balti pie mmmm
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1. Go to work wearing no pants
2. Get arrested on number 9
3. Make mental note not to forget trousers as well
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Whatever Dr Tones plans are neither RDM or SB can complain about being supported.
Now I would like to come away from a game thinking "well we didn't win but I can see what we are Tring to do and we are improving"
Rather than look at a line up and our play and think "WTF"
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I agree with passport 1. Not much sign of a plan so far. The original question stands - please could the owner tell us what the 5-10 year plan actually is.
Having said that, I don't expect it so be set in stone, and the rule of the BRitish ARmy is a good one - no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
Reality is you have to adjust to what is happening on the ground. I don't think Di Matteo did, I have more faith in Bruce. Happy to give him and Xia more time. But I still want to know what the plan is - even though they may be adapting it, as reality kicks in.
the plan is to be a top 3 in the world club within 5 years isn't it? :-)
Right now, I think I'd settle for being a top 3 club in the midlands :-(
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I think Newcastle could be the game that turns our club around, and not for the most obvious reasons. There is still too much of an attitude around the club that we're too good for this and because we're Aston Villa we'll pummel someone soon and go on a long run of victories. Yet we have won only 8 games this season, the same as Burton. We rarely cut loose and are a poor average lower mid table Championship team. We are an Ipswich, a QPR and the sooner we realise this the sooner we can look to knuckle down and try and turn things around.
If we go to newcastle and get a beating - 4 or 5 or so - then the penny may finally drop that we're not as good as we like to think we are and that working hard will only get us out of this division and not some divine right to be in the top flight because of who we are.
That needs to happen, and fast, because otherwise we'll start to sink too close to the relegation scrap and only wake up when reality is facing us squarely in the face. That's what we really need - a dose of reality. After 6 months or so we haven't seen it. We won't get close to going further up the tabel until we give ourselves a serious reality check and accept where we are now.
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n (ftp://n)
I think Newcastle could be the game that turns our club around, and not for the most obvious reasons. There is still too much of an attitude around the club that we're too good for this and because we're Aston Villa we'll pummel someone soon and go on a long run of victories. Yet we have won only 8 games this season, the same as Burton. We rarely cut loose and are a poor average lower mid table Championship team. We are an Ipswich, a QPR and the sooner we realise this the sooner we can look to knuckle down and try and turn things around.
If we go to newcastle and get a beating - 4 or 5 or so - then the penny may finally drop that we're not as good as we like to think we are and that working hard will only get us out of this division and not some divine right to be in the top flight because of who we are.
That needs to happen, and fast, because otherwise we'll start to sink too close to the relegation scrap and only wake up when reality is facing us squarely in the face. That's what we really need - a dose of reality. After 6 months or so we haven't seen it. We won't get close to going further up the tabel until we give ourselves a serious reality check and accept where we are now.
I agree with some of this but saying were "an Ipswich or a QPR"..... no fucking way am I having that!
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if this shit carries on he won't be here another five months, let alone five years.
That's my worry as well. He is likely to get bored and put us up for sale and that would be a nightmare.
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n (ftp://n)I think Newcastle could be the game that turns our club around, and not for the most obvious reasons. There is still too much of an attitude around the club that we're too good for this and because we're Aston Villa we'll pummel someone soon and go on a long run of victories. Yet we have won only 8 games this season, the same as Burton. We rarely cut loose and are a poor average lower mid table Championship team. We are an Ipswich, a QPR and the sooner we realise this the sooner we can look to knuckle down and try and turn things around.
If we go to newcastle and get a beating - 4 or 5 or so - then the penny may finally drop that we're not as good as we like to think we are and that working hard will only get us out of this division and not some divine right to be in the top flight because of who we are.
That needs to happen, and fast, because otherwise we'll start to sink too close to the relegation scrap and only wake up when reality is facing us squarely in the face. That's what we really need - a dose of reality. After 6 months or so we haven't seen it. We won't get close to going further up the tabel until we give ourselves a serious reality check and accept where we are now.
I agree with some of this but saying were "an Ipswich or a QPR"..... no fucking way am I having that!
In terms of where we as a team that's all we are.
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Sorry peter but I'm calling bullshit on the basis that you're confusing where we are for what we are.
Where we are isn't good enough for the club and should never be something we accept.
What we are is why we're a big scalp is why our squad and management need to realise that but not be overawed by the expectation. We need to be a big deal and know that if we play our game then teams need to be fucking brilliant to beat us. That's what a winning mentality is, look at the England rugby team, right now they're refuse to be beaten and that belief (and a superb bench) was enough to drag them through at the weekend. I want that attitude and accepting that we're a qpr or ipswich is not going to help.
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I think if we were called Ipswich with the squad we have, we'd be top of the league.
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I agree with Paul. The players need to meet the challenge of being the big club on the block and use the pride in being that as motivation for a minimum level of performance that meets those expectations. So little old somebody is coming to Villa Park and they're all in their local bumpkin press about how it's a great arena to play, how we're such a big scalp and how they're not going to be overawed; well here we are, this is how good we are (and player for player we have far more quality than just about everyone) and here is how hard we work. Bet you wished you'd stayed in bed.
Far from meek and humble, they've got to realise what institution they're playing for and not be afraid to work hard and show what they can do, as first five minutes at Villa Park the opposition will be a lot more nervous than us, or at least they ought to be and it's on the players to not hide within themselves.
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If we were called Ipswich and Steve Bruce was called Eddie Jones and Tommy Elphick was called Dylan Hartley we would be top of the league.
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It's all very well and good being a 'big' club if you behave like a big club. If you don't, then it can work against you. If you fail to do all the hard work and preparation, keep strong discipline, and eradicate complacency, and you're not hell-bent on winning because losing is unthinkable, you'll most likely get what smaller clubs are eager to do to you.
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I think Tony definitely has a plan the trouble is that at this moment in time Steve Bruce and his coaching staff don't appear to...
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well if Tony has a plan, and lobsterboy like the rest of us only thinks there is one, it's time to find out what it is. 5-10 years he said. So I am writing to see if he can let us know what he proposes.
If and when he replies I will report back
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Personally, I really don't have too much of a problem with not knowing 'the plan'. I don't see what there is to be gained by sharing it, as he'd either be accused of being unrealistic or be lambasted in the press.
So far, he's backed his managers in both transfer windows, acted quickly when needed to (booting RDM), given open communication when possible (although occasionally cryptic), and taken decisive steps in dealing with both on and off the field matters.
Whilst far from happy with our present position, I still feel confident that Dr X will continue to act in the best interests of the club and seek to get us back where we belong. That's a lot more than I could have said about previous regimes.
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I can't see you having much luck Trevor, most of it will be either commercially or football specifics confidential. He may be able to give some bland overall objectives I.e grow commercial income, increase avge attendance, get promoted but if you're after an in depth business plan prepare for disappointment.
I like to think the SCG chat with Steve Round gave more than enough insight into the football operations side of the club, from a Couple of months ago.
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At Di Matteo's press conference he alluded to us maybe taking two seasons to get back to the prem so clearly back then he and Dr Tony were discussing that.
Of course back then we didn't realise how disastrous a fit RDM would be for us.
I'm sure Tony would've studied the form and seen not that many teams go back up straight away.
I'm disappointed with how things are but if it takes another year so be it....mentally as a club we are still miles away from being a competitive force at prem level. If we can barely win an away game at championship level then we certainly wouldn't be winning many in the premier league.
Problem is if we don't go up next season...then I worry what will happen as Dr Tony's bold ambitions for the club will start looking like pipe dreams.