Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: wittonwarrior on September 25, 2016, 10:35:15 PM
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I go back with the Villa to 1972 - during that time I have seen up to now mostly more highs than lows up to last season, okay I only know all to well the relegation back in the 80's but to me we were in a far superior state of health even then.
My question is prior to Vic Crowe how poor were the Villa in the 60's/early 70's?
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Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div
(http://i.imgur.com/ICskpxJ.png)
The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.
I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening - it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.
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Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div
(http://i.imgur.com/ICskpxJ.png)
The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.
I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening - it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.
Do you mean Dick Taylor?
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I started going to home matches around 1963-4 and apart from a couple of highlights it's been frustrating supporting a team that with it's support base should be at the top of the league consistently. I came to Oz before the league or European wins so missed out on seeing it happen.
We are a big club who should be massive that's why so many managers are attracted to us they can all see the potential and the rewards if they succeed, I often think there must be a curse on the place.
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Dick Knight was on TV, not selling them!
Although I went s few times before then I started going regularly with my dad in 68.
From around then and right through the 70s the support was incredible not just in numbers but also because it always felt as though everyone was right behind the club.
If I could relive my life again I couldn't find a better time to get hooked.
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I wonder how different out history might have been if the weather didn't turn to shit in 1962-63.
After our game on the 15th December we were fifth. We only played a couple of games between then and March and ended up fifteenth, losing the League Cup Final to Small Heath to make things worse.
After that, we didn't have a single season for the rest of the decade that wasn't a grim struggle against relegation, or an actual relegation.
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I wonder how different out history might have been if the weather didn't turn to shit in...
Beware. Down that road lies Stripeyness.
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All that anyone needs to know about the Villa in the 1960s is that we drove Joe Mercer to a nervous breakdown. He then went to Man City and with Malcolm Allison won them the league in 1968 - overshadowed by Man U winning the European cup - and went on to manage England. Even Joe could not manage villa, the club was bankrupt in every way
A friend recalls coming to Villa Park for a cup game with Oxford, looking forward to the great ground he had heard so much about, and being shocked to see broken window panes, Villa could not even fix the windows,
And we sold the training ground, the Hercules ground so the team had to borrow works pitches to train on. Deadly bought Bodymoor and stopped that nonsense.
It was awful in the 1960s. The weekend before Docherty arrived we got 12,500 people in a 62,500 capacity ground and I can remember hearing players shouting to each other - and there was an echo. A nightmare in every way
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All that anyone needs to know about the Villa in the 1960s is that we drove Joe Mercer to a nervous breakdown. He then went to Man City and with Malcolm Allison won them the league in 1968 - overshadowed by Man U winning the European cup - and went on to manage England. Even Joe could not manage villa, the club was bankrupt in every way
A friend recalls coming to Villa Park for a cup game with Oxford, looking forward to the great ground he had heard so much about, and being shocked to see broken window panes, Villa could not even fix the windows,
And we sold the training ground, the Hercules ground so the team had to borrow works pitches to train on. Deadly bought Bodymoor and stopped that nonsense.
It was awful in the 1960s. The weekend before Docherty arrived we got 12,500 people in a 62,500 capacity ground and I can remember hearing players shouting to each other - and there was an echo. A nightmare in every way
It was cold on the Witton End too, not enough fans to huddle together!
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Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div
(http://i.imgur.com/ICskpxJ.png)
The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.
I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening - it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.
Do you mean Dick Taylor?
And Pat Matthews.
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This is a cracking thread, despite the bleakness. I had no idea how badly the club was on its arse in the early 60's and never heard as such before. Had no idea HDE was responsible for the Bodymore Heath purchase either. I've only been a fan from abroad since the mid 80's and that post FA Cup triumph of '57 to the Div 3 period, I've known and heard little about. I read Children of the Revolution yonks ago but the short period just prior to very late 60's is a black hole.
It's almost criminal to think how the club has been run at times last century despite it's potential. Correlate that with a club of similar history and stature in Everton (okay, no European Cup) and without looking at the records, their successes I'd imagine would be more chronologically consistent than Villa's. Prior to WWI with it's success and support, you'd have to consider Villa one of the biggest sporting clubs in the world at the time, if not the biggest. By comparison the next 50 odd years were a mixed bag to say the least.
Credit to those who saw the 60's through and are still following.
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Them days there was no choice, I would have got kicked out of the family if I had followed the trend of today and cherry picked one of the top three. It was pretty basic in the Witton end with a quick exit down the back of the bank at the end.
Even though there was little success we lived for years off the cup final win and Johny Dixon and Peter Mac will always be heroes for me. Villa Park has always been a top ground with top supporters but with Godawful management, lets hope Tone is the real deal.
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
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Interesting read this. Anyone recommened a decent book that covers all this period?
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I started going to villa in 1967 and been trying to go every season since I missed a few matches when my twins were born as I had no time as I needed to work saturdays to keep money coming in. Seen good times and bad times over the years.
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I first went down the Villa in the mid 60s aged about 5 or 6, and remember the stadium being very grand but rather rundown and ramshackle. A bit iike the team. I'm not sure how I managed to get hooked when we were so consistently poor but there was something about the place, the colours, the crowd. And i got to spend time with my Dad and Grandparents. For cluelessness both on an off the pitch it pretty much resembled the Last few seasons of the Lerner reign, although there was the odd highlight such as the FA Cup replay against Southampton with a massive crowd. Much as I despise Eliis (and I really do) he and the rest of the new board have to be given credit for finally introducing some commercial thinking, modernisation and and a bit of PR spin to get the fans back on side. OK it was more suited to small businessman mentalities in those days, and Eliis' limitations were soon there for all to see, but compared to what went before the new board were from a different planet.
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I first went in 62 (reserve game) and as often as pocket money would allow after that. It never seemed so bad - partly because I'd never known a Villa that was any good and partly because our home form was pretty good, such that until our relegation season I don't recall seeing us lose at Villa Park (we even beat Man U!).
Even getting relegated didn't feel too awful, after all we'd be straight back up wouldn't we? Then it did get really awful...
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
My first season, too.
First game Chesterfield.
Second game Bristol Rovers. They had this player called Graydon.
I remember winning the youth floodlit cup with the likes of Little, Brian & Alan, Gidman, Findley and, like yourself Allan, one of my favourites, Keith Leonard.
If I recall we had almost 30,000 for our leg of the final. 30,000 for a youth game!!!
I'm sure Dave Woodhall could supply attendance
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I don't know about the performances, but looking at the league table positions, from the 60's and 70's it looked pretty grim.
However the recent bad records we have been setting, along with the players attitudes, and general demise, i would say the last 3 or 4 seasons have been about as bad as it gets.
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
My first season, too.
First game Chesterfield.
Second game Bristol Rovers. They had this player called Graydon.
I remember winning the youth floodlit cup with the likes of Little, Brian & Alan, Gidman, Findley and, like yourself Allan, one of my favourites, Keith Leonard.
If I recall we had almost 30,000 for our leg of the final. 30,000 for a youth game!!!
I'm sure Dave Woodhall could supply attendance
I remember being at the home leg (and a couple of earlier rounds) - yes it was pretty full - capacity was around 58,000 ? after seats were put in the Trinity Enclosure and yes I'd say the ground was around half full.
A John Gidman penalty gave us a 1-0 home leg lead.
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Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div
(http://i.imgur.com/ICskpxJ.png)
The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.
I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening - it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.
Do you mean Dick Taylor?
And Pat Matthews.
Of course, Taylor and as for Matthews, Percy, I was remembering Private Eye's description of him when they did a paragraph on his First National Finance group. Percy "Kindly call me Pat" Matthews
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Interesting read this. Anyone recommened a decent book that covers all this period?
Not sure about a book but there was a club history video narrated by Gerald Sinstadt - I think - with a good interview with someone who experienced it all - Charlie Aitken. I think the history went up to 82
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Went up to the late 80s.
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
My first season, too.
First game Chesterfield.
Second game Bristol Rovers. They had this player called Graydon.
I remember winning the youth floodlit cup with the likes of Little, Brian & Alan, Gidman, Findley and, like yourself Allan, one of my favourites, Keith Leonard.
If I recall we had almost 30,000 for our leg of the final. 30,000 for a youth game!!!
I'm sure Dave Woodhall could supply attendance
The semi-finals were well attended, unsurprisingly - against Blues & Francis? The number 9 was Tony Betts, surely, not Leonard
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
My first season, too.
First game Chesterfield.
Second game Bristol Rovers. They had this player called Graydon.
I remember winning the youth floodlit cup with the likes of Little, Brian & Alan, Gidman, Findley and, like yourself Allan, one of my favourites, Keith Leonard.
If I recall we had almost 30,000 for our leg of the final. 30,000 for a youth game!!!
I'm sure Dave Woodhall could supply attendance
The semi-finals were well attended, unsurprisingly - against Blues & Francis? The number 9 was Tony Betts, surely, not Leonard
Stand corrected if that's the case, mate. Long time ago 😊
EDIT: Quite correct, Steve, I wondered if any one would spot the deliberate mistake 😀
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First game in 1959 against Ipswich, I was 7, we won 3-1 I think, Hitchens and McParland amongst the scorers. Saw nearly every home game from then until I came down south in 1967. We were mainly crap but I knew no better and these were my happiest times watching the Villa. Coloured by my tender age and going with my dad and uncle Jack, God bless them both.
I have no real memory of the state of the ground or particular games although Charlton 11-1 and Leicester 8-3 stand out. I do remember individual players, even Bobby Park although I have tried hypnosis and therapy.
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My first time in Villa Park, I am told, was when my mother took my two brothers and me to see first hand the bombing of the Witton Lane stand. My first game was in 1946. We were awful in those days. Always down the bottom of the table. We had only two international players, Leslie Smith getting on in years and a Welsh goalkeeper whose name escapes me. Trevor Ford gave us new heart and something to cheer about but generally Villa since WW2 have been more like they are now than they were in Rotterdam.
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Well for a start, here are the league positions over the 20 years from 1960-perhaps they speak to the standard of our football - never higher than 15th in a 22-team League for 9 years running - followed by a catastrophic spell in the 2nd Div
(http://i.imgur.com/ICskpxJ.png)
The club was in terminal decline from the highlight of promotion at the first attempt in 1960 - under managers ranging from Joe Mercer (whose pedigree was impeccable) to Dick Knight & Tommy Cumming (less impeccable - Knight later ran a TV/Radio shop on the Witton Road and Tommy C went back to Burnley to run a pub). The decline was slowed, halted and eventually reversed by the Percy Matthews/Doug Ellis takeover in 1968, though even they couldn't stay out of the 3rd under Tommy Docherty . The club would have gone out of business without Doug - I remain convinced of that - the pre-Ellis board were appallingly behind the times - and couldn't handle the debt that Knight had incurred by some apparently crap signings - which is why the club sold their Trinity Road training ground.
I was only an occasional supporter being at school - so I can only guess at what the football was like - but the "new broom" started in the old Div 3 - under the hand of Vic Crowe and I remember then really starting to support them home and away - with a team that was the best since 1960 - even then it was the feeling that the sleeping giant was awakening - it was brilliant a run of improvement that continued to 1982.
Do you mean Dick Taylor?
And Pat Matthews.
Percy was his proper Christian name.
Dick Knight was a local sports journalist.
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Keith Jones was our international goalkeeper.
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My first time in Villa Park, I am told, was when my mother took my two brothers and me to see first hand the bombing of the Witton Lane stand.
How did she know in advance it was going to happen, Brian?
My mom used to go down the Villa whilst she was pregnant carrying me so I was in Villa Park before I was born. For most of my time I have seen more good than bad but the last 5 years have been the worst and longest run since I started going to matches.
I know we finished 3rd in 1972-73 but I have no great recollection of big crowds, great games or the excitement of the previous season's promotion campaign. Is my memory failing or were we so far behind Burnley and QPR that there was little excitement?
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I missed out on the third division have had so many stories on and off the pitch of the two seasons a case of wish I was there - my era 73 onwards has in the main been for most clubs a success. I agree we could and should have been better given the potential support, the location and the underpinning work done by vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Not sure how much the ego of Doug ellis contributed to us failing to become one of the big four. The issue we have had is from relegation in the 80's we have never kicked on like the man ures of the world did following their blip in the 70's. I know we will recover from where we are now but my regret is that I will never see another Highbury or Rotterdam
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My first home game was in April 1967 when we lost to Burnley. My first away game was at Sheffield United in August 1968 which we also lost. Their ground was a strange place then as it also doubled up as a cricket pitch. Another memory of this time is that we were routinely beaten by Small Heath, sometimes heavily. One exception to this was when we beat them 2-0 at St Andrews in March 1970. This was our only away win in the season that saw relegation to the third division. The game featured a cracking goal from Bruce Rioch. Although Tommy Docherty was sacked during that season, he managed to bring the crowds back to Villa Park. In lots of ways that period was very similar to the last few years, although I believe that the players back then were far preferable in attitude to the recent bunch.
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First game I was nine 1959 against Cardiff city in the old second division we won 2-0 I think Gerry Hitchens scored one of the goals both teams were promoted that season. We were poor in the sixties, however I remember a night game against The Spurs cup winning side which we won 2 0 Dereck Dougan scoring twice, also we beat Man U 4 0 with Denis Law sent off for kicking Alan Deaken in the head whilst he was he lay on the ground. Although the decade was very poor for us ,we had a centre forward who was the best header of a ball I've ever seen that was Tony Hatley ,downside dreadfully with his feet. We got relegated around 67 which was bitter pill made worse by the fact that the blues had their best post war team ouch!
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First game I was nine 1959 against Cardiff city in the old second division we won 2-0 I think Gerry Hitchens scored one of the goals both teams were promoted that season. We were poor in the sixties, however I remember a night game against The Spurs cup winning side which we won 2 0 Dereck Dougan scoring twice, also we beat Man U 4 0 with Denis Law sent off for kicking Alan Deaken in the head whilst he was he lay on the ground. Although the decade was very poor for us ,we had a centre forward who was the best header of a ball I've ever seen that was Tony Hatley ,downside dreadfully with his feet. We got relegated around 67 which was bitter pill made worse by the fact that the blues had their best post war team ouch!
Anybody would think Big Tone had trouble standing up.You may be surprised to learn that despite his pheonomal heading ability well over half his goals were scored at ground level.
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First game I was nine 1959 against Cardiff city in the old second division we won 2-0 I think Gerry Hitchens scored one of the goals both teams were promoted that season. We were poor in the sixties, however I remember a night game against The Spurs cup winning side which we won 2 0 Dereck Dougan scoring twice, also we beat Man U 4 0 with Denis Law sent off for kicking Alan Deaken in the head whilst he was he lay on the ground. Although the decade was very poor for us ,we had a centre forward who was the best header of a ball I've ever seen that was Tony Hatley ,downside dreadfully with his feet. We got relegated around 67 which was bitter pill made worse by the fact that the blues had their best post war team ouch!
I was also at that match for my first visit- I was 10 ! - just before Xmas 1959
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Interesting read this. Anyone recommened a decent book that covers all this period?
War and Peace.
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Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
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Nobody has mentioned the ornate Witton Lane Stand that was still standing until 64/65.It was replaced for the Word Cup games. That stand had been there since the beginning and had reached the end of its life span but was much loved.W e did indeed have some very good players in the sixties.Hateley,Woosnam,Johnny MacLeod,Harry Burrows ad Colin Withers to name a few but never enough at any given time.We improved when the Doc brought in Chico ,Bruce Rioch and Pat McMahon and their like.Ex Villa wing half Vic Crowe then took it further and made a team of them and got us to Wembley in 1971.Vic Crowe was a very good manager.
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
My first season, too.
First game Chesterfield.
Second game Bristol Rovers. They had this player called Graydon.
I remember winning the youth floodlit cup with the likes of Little, Brian & Alan, Gidman, Findley and, like yourself Allan, one of my favourites, Keith Leonard.
If I recall we had almost 30,000 for our leg of the final. 30,000 for a youth game!!!
I'm sure Dave Woodhall could supply attendance
The semi-finals were well attended, unsurprisingly - against Blues & Francis? The number 9 was Tony Betts, surely, not Leonard
Stand corrected if that's the case, mate. Long time ago 😊
EDIT: Quite correct, Steve, I wondered if any one would spot the deliberate mistake 😀
Yes I spotted ti too, I remember Tony Betts at centre forward being quite skillful but not very big for a CF. I believe we signed Leonard around the time Andy Lochead retired or moved on, from a local-ish non-league team - Kidderminster possibly? (just googled it and he played for Kiddie but I think we signed him from Highgate United). I was a big fan of Leonard, in the Withe mould, big lad, hard as nails and a great header of the ball but with foot skills as well. Shame Terry Mancini clogged him out of the game.
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Yes - we signed Keith from Highgate United
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I saw him make his debut v Forest reserves in April '72, as part of a trial from Highgate.
Dead slow, not particularly good in the air for a big lad, but a great first touch and lay-off to quicker players, eg. Messrs Graydon and Little!!
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We were poor in the mid to late '60s- the great thing for me was I didn't notice! I started going regularly as a kid in 1968 and thought that it was always like that and loved it. In Doc's only pre season with us I genuinely believed we were going to storm to promotion in the season to come and even with disaster that year became,still believed we would repeat our relegation escape of the previous year right up until the morning after we didn't. I vividly remember coming out of the Holte after losing at home 3-5 to Portsmouth during the winter and explaining to my mates that now we could score three goals in a game we would easily move up the table. The optimism of youth!
What followed is well documented but I always consider myself lucky to have started supporting Villa at the age I did and also at that point in the club's history. I suspect though that, had I been my current age back then the late sixties side would have got the same grief as I gave last year's.
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My first game was 1960 and I rarely missed one for the next forty years. In those early years as a pre-teen and thereafter a teen supporter it was irrelevant if we were in the first or third division, every game was exciting to me and would be looked forward to. I remember missing my first game in years when about ten years old with chickenpox and I was inconsolable. I was somewhat spoilt in as much as my father was involved at boardroom level when I was growing up and so I guess would be classed as one of the prawn sandwich brigade these days, but at my age it just made it all the more exciting as my close involvement with the players and staff was all magical to a young football fanatical boy.
A number of the players became close friends towards my later teens and twenties and there was a genuine connection between supporters and players back then, the polar opposite of now and being entirely due to the greed that has enveloped the game. It is simply not the same anymore and although I have retained my season ticket for the past fifty five years I derive little satisfaction and certainly the excitement has long gone.
I would gladly take the old Villa Park back, it was part of the magic for me, a proper football stadium. The smell of the pipe smoke and Bovril, the wooden seats were way more comfortable, or am I imagining that as my legs barely touched the floor. The new Villa Park is nothing special to me, even the atmosphere does not come anywhere near that of the early years. The noise would give me goose-bumps as the fans got behind the team, the football seemed better, even when we were absolutely awful falling down the leagues, it was surely better than the complete dross we are experiencing now. The game has become overly technical in my mind, no player just goes out to play their own game anymore, natural talent is stifled.
Doubtless I will still be down there until the body or mind gives up the fight, goodness knows why, it somehow is in the blood, but alas it will never be the same.
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My first season was 70/71. My dad used to go down the Witton end on the mud at the back and we used to run down the hill at the end. I loved watching Villa back then and being in the third division didn't matter. Players like Andy Lockhead Chico Hamilton and Pat McMahon were gods to me. I thought we were brilliant. Switched to the Holte end in 74. Possibly my favourite player of all time Keith Lenard and promotion back to Div 1 are high lights. Great bosses too. Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders. Fantastic days to be a young Villa fan
My first season, too.
First game Chesterfield.
Second game Bristol Rovers. They had this player called Graydon.
I remember winning the youth floodlit cup with the likes of Little, Brian & Alan, Gidman, Findley and, like yourself Allan, one of my favourites, Keith Leonard.
If I recall we had almost 30,000 for our leg of the final. 30,000 for a youth game!!!
I'm sure Dave Woodhall could supply attendance
The semi-finals were well attended, unsurprisingly - against Blues & Francis? The number 9 was Tony Betts, surely, not Leonard
Stand corrected if that's the case, mate. Long time ago 😊
EDIT: Quite correct, Steve, I wondered if any one would spot the deliberate mistake 😀
Sorry to come in here, but attendances do get exaggerated over time!
The biggest crowd in the Youth Cup that season was for our game at St Andrews which was 21,000, a couple of thousand more than saw the replay at Viila Park. That was a 4th round tie and Trevor Francis (20 first team goals already by then) was the big attraction but another future European Cup winner with Forest, Kenny Burns, was also in that team. We, of course had future superstars Brian Little & John Gidman, as well as Bobby McDonald, but Jimmy Brown was our first-teamer in the squad.
After that we beat Chelsea after a replay 3-0 at Villa Park in the QF and then had a 14,500 crowd for the SF win over Arsenal (1-0 Bobby Mac). For the final the attendances were "only" 16,500 at both Villa Park and Anfield.
The Liverpool team had Phil Thompson in and a 16 year old Liam Brady was in Arsenal's side for the semi.
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Having just passed 50 years of age it's nice to look back over some of the great Villa games I have been privileged to have witnessed back in the 70's. My earliest memory is probably watching Andy Lochead at Villa Park - must have been near the end of his Villa career - I was around 7 years old.
My earliest 'full game' recollection would be the '75 final against Norwich - age 9. I was also lucky to go to all of the 1977 League Cup Final matches against Everton - Wembley, Hillsborough and the final one at Old Trafford where we won 3-2 - Magic. Football as an occasion is not what it used to be. The magic of standing on the Holte End on my plywood topped polystyrene box - painted claret & blue, made by my Dad, was unforgettable. I remember going to Filbert Street on said box and it was absolutely packed and I kept losing my box under my feet as the crowd moved left and right in 10 foot movements, with me being held up by the people next to me...my feet dangling a foot above the terracing...
The thing that I miss is the sheer volume of support for the team - especially, when the other team had scored - we were the ones making the most noise, encouraging the lads to get back into the game. Villa Park really was a fortress. Stirring stuff!
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I go back with the Villa to 1972 - during that time I have seen up to now mostly more highs than lows up to last season, okay I only know all to well the relegation back in the 80's but to me we were in a far superior state of health even then.
My question is prior to Vic Crowe how poor were the Villa in the 60's/early 70's?
Last season takes some beating for sheer awfulness! But the end of the 60's was truly dire, despite the brief resurgence when Docherty arrived. We scored less than half a goal a game during the three seasons in the 2nd division. The board and the manager (Tommy Cummings) were out of their depth and there was a feeling of stagnation and decay about the place. After we were relegated to the 3rd division, however, the revival began almost immediately. Those two seasons were tremendously exciting (Man U, Bournemouth, Wembley etc - what memories!) and although Vic Crowe and Ron Wylie ultimately got the sack they laid the foundations of a team which would be European Champions a few years later.
Apologies if it's already been recommended, but Children of the Revolution by Richard Whitehead covers the period and is an excellent read
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My earliest vivid memory of Villa Park in the '60s was the home game v Preston circa 1968 when the fans started to revolt - 12000 in the ground, and I can still feel the sound of stamping feet in the old (wooden floor of) the Trinity Road stand.
In those days, as a child going to the game with my dad, I'd never enter the ground through a turnstile, I'd crawl under it - as my dad would slip the turnstile operator the price of a pint of beer, and down on my hands and knees I'd go.
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We were poor in the mid to late '60s- the great thing for me was I didn't notice! I started going regularly as a kid in 1968 and thought that it was always like that and loved it. In Doc's only pre season with us I genuinely believed we were going to storm to promotion in the season to come and even with disaster that year became,still believed we would repeat our relegation escape of the previous year right up until the morning after we didn't. I vividly remember coming out of the Holte after losing at home 3-5 to Portsmouth during the winter and explaining to my mates that now we could score three goals in a game we would easily move up the table. The optimism of youth!
What followed is well documented but I always consider myself lucky to have started supporting Villa at the age I did and also at that point in the club's history. I suspect though that, had I been my current age back then the late sixties side would have got the same grief as I gave last year's.
Great post GB, echoing many of my own feelings.
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Interesting read this. Anyone recommened a decent book that covers all this period?
"Aston Villa - the First One Hundred years" was published in 1974 and although a hefty magazine type publication rather than a book, is well worth a read if you can get hold of it, some great photographs too. It covers the period right up to the appointment of some bloke called Ron Saunders - but that's another story.