Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on August 27, 2016, 04:48:28 PM
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O.k we've dropped down a division.
From last summer it was demanded we got in a new owner (tick), get in a relatively proven manager (maybe didn't want Pearson so RDM at least ticked boxes for not being a) Nigel Pearson and b) having a promotion from this division so he knew what was coming this year.
We have slowly changed the team aswell. I wanted proven winners at this level and we've delievered that....Chester, Jedinak, De Laet, Elphick all regulars for promotion winning teams at this level. We also have a proven striker at this level who scores 20 goals at this level with his eyes closed apparently.
And yet we still can't win many football matches!
1 win from 5...that is a poor start.
What is wrong with this club? There should be a freshness about things with the changes but still we're making the same old mistakes....missing chances when on top, collapsing as soon as we concede a goal.
How many managers and overhauls of playing squads before we actually start doing something.
You can understand it at premier league level as we're facing world class players on an annual basis. Not now as these are mediocre teams so the results are much more embarrassment. But then we've had plenty of those in the cup in recent years so maybe it should've been expected as it all has the feeling of cup ties still.
Whatever something is still badly wrong at the club. What is it?
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I'm gonna compare this season with Graham Taylor's first - if we had the internet back then, I'm sure forums like this would have been very sombre places to visit.
We had a poor start, losing to Birmingham City at home, winning only 1 in the first 7 games. Our second win came in the middle of September, and began the start of our amazing away performances.
There was no such thing as the transfer window then, and the signings of Stuart and Andy Gray helped to improve us further.
We need to address the striker situation, cut out the showboating when we are leading by a goal, and just knuckle down and put our chances away. I'm still hopeful things will improve and we will rise up that league.
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I still think we'll go up, but christ almighty, we need to start taking advantage when we're on top.
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It's all about decisions and the decisions being taken at every level including those on the pitch are not good enough.
This club has still not woken up to how serious the situation is, and that includes us fans.
Westwood Bacuna Cissoko still in the team, Ayew with the wrong attitude and a dodgy goalkeeper.
Agbonlahor Lescott and Richards still on the payroll.
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Is there really any need for a new thread? Surely there are enough threads open already to cover our concerns without launching a new (hysterically titled) one.
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We've signed the best part of a new team. Maybe they need time to gel. Maybe the players signed are a bit shit or maybe RDM isn't up to it. We do know yet, but it isn't necessarily somethings specifically bad at the club.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
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Our pattern of dominating first halfs without taking our chances and then playing shit in the second half has got to stop.
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When the Holte was demolished and rebuilt, I remember some Blues fan ringing up Tom Ross / George Gavin and said his mate, who was a workman on the site, had put a piece of rubble (or something) from St. Andrews into the Holte foundations to transfer their famous curse to us.
In these days of political correctness, I am not sure whether I am allowed to specify the type of curse, so will leave it to the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2352837/Birmingham-hope-curse-has-run-course.html
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I thought we would go up when we signed McCormack. I've already given up hope.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
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Whenever we concede we fall to pieces - we look like when you play FIFA and your opponent puts their controller down and goes for a piss.
The worst thing is that when we go behind you know there is ZERO chance of us getting back into the match.
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Westwood.
Shite. Utter dogshite. Everytime these Mickey Mouse twats come out second half they stop giving that gimp time on the ball and they press into him. I hope it's the last time the c*** plays for us.
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All opponents have to do is put pressure on us, any kind of pressure, a whipped cross, a close shot, a winger skinning our full back, a couple of corners, and from that point on we collectively shit ourselves. The mentality of the squad/club is so weak, even after signing mentally strong players such as Elphick and Jedinak.
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Westwood.
Shite. Utter dogshite. Everytime these Mickey Mouse twats come out second half they stop giving that gimp time on the ball and they press into him. I hope it's the last time the c*** plays for us.
It won't be....RDM likes him and in any case we hardly have much depth in CM.
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When the Holte was demolished and rebuilt, I remember some Blues fan ringing up Tom Ross / George Gavin and said his mate, who was a workman on the site, had put a piece of rubble (or something) from St. Andrews into the Holte foundations to transfer their famous curse to us.
In these days of political correctness, I am not sure whether I am allowed to specify the type of curse, so will leave it to the Telegraph.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2352837/Birmingham-hope-curse-has-run-course.html
Yawn.
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Then we continue to play a fourth division player in the most crucial of roles and we struggle to stay up again.
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It's all about decisions and the decisions being taken at every level including those on the pitch are not good enough.
This club has still not woken up to how serious the situation is, and that includes us fans.
Westwood Bacuna Cissoko still in the team, Ayew with the wrong attitude and a dodgy goalkeeper.
Agbonlahor Lescott and Richards still on the payroll.
I think Bacuna and Cissoko have been decent in the games I have seen. I haven't made my mind up on Ayew at this level yet. Westwood is a waste of space and our goalkeeper hasn't exactly covered himself in glory 'early doors'.
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Westwood.
Shite. Utter dogshite. Everytime these Mickey Mouse twats come out second half they stop giving that gimp time on the ball and they press into him. I hope it's the last time the c*** plays for us.
It won't be....RDM likes him and in any case we hardly have much depth in CM.
We'll see if he likes him or not when Tshibola is fit again and the transfer deadline has passed. I get the feeling he's playing him because there's no one else to take his place. A blind man could see Westwood is a weak link in the side and the sooner he's gone the better.
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Let's wait and see what happens. More players in and out yet, I think I counted 23 so far. I think we might not really start to get to grips with this league until around November, when they have gelled properly. Might be asking too much to expect us to go straight back up this season. I still think we have players who lack bottle to be in this side, you can't carry them in any league. I am angry and pissed off with how we've started, one in six, including the Luton game. But I am still optimistic that we will be around the play offs. That said, the so called world class player might be looking at this start and will change his mind about joining.
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Then we continue to play a fourth division player in the most crucial of roles and we struggle to stay up again.
I think when Tish is fit again it will be him and Jedinak.
Westwood will still be lurking on the bench however otherwise it's Gardner...
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Our pattern of dominating first halfs without taking our chances and then playing shit in the second half has got to stop.
Unfortunately it will stop when teams stop treating us with the respect our last few opponents have. Then we will be overwhelmed and dominated in both halves.
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Yep. That's the worry. We look good because these wanky no marks shit their pants that they're playing Aston Villa. As soon as they start pressing us, the true quality of useless ****** like Westwood becomes obvious and we crumble.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i agree when we are on top of teams that Westwood and Bacuna have played well, problem is when we are under pressure they are two of the biggest hiders in the squad, your can't have two midfielders hiding at any level of the game.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
Bacuna's done half decent so far but he's still not anything special. Westwood on the other hand has been his usual anonymous self. Honestly when are fans gonna realise the waster this man is? He's spent years making our midfield mediocre with displays of nothingness and it's time we finally got rid of him. We won't be promoted with him in our midfield.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i agree when we are on top of teams that Westwood and Bacuna have played well, problem is when we are under pressure they are two of the biggest hiders in the squad, your can't have two midfielders hiding at any level of the game.
That friendly against Boro exposed the fundamental lack of steel at Aston Villa. A forward move breaks down and within three passes and it's in the back of the net. There are too many players either unable to organise themselves tactically or not organising others. I'm sorry, but I really, really hate Ashley Westwood being a first-choice pick at our football club.
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I think one of the main issues is we've got a totally new team and people expect them to gel and perform instantly. I expect by Christmas we'll have a lot better idea of how good (or bad) this team is rather than after five games.
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I think one of the main issues is we've got a totally new team and people expect them to gel and perform instantly. I expect by Christmas we'll have a lot better idea of how good (or bad) this team is rather than after five games.
which will be too late for this season
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It's a perfectly valid argument to say the team is gelling, because that's to be expected. But by the time it does, promotion may be all but a pipe dream.
I'm also unconvinced it's a problem with players gelling. I think it's more to do with certain players not being trusted by their colleagues. That was an obvious problem under Garde - the shape crumbles because you have players pissing off and closing down players when they should be concentrating on the players they are supposed to be marking. It's forward players who should be coming back and doubling up to help their defenders, not every member of the back four.
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I think one of the main issues is we've got a totally new team and people expect them to gel and perform instantly. I expect by Christmas we'll have a lot better idea of how good (or bad) this team is rather than after five games.
which will be too late for this season
Only if it's as bad as the doom and gloom merchants think it will be. I think we'll do well.
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I should say 'more pessimistic fans' rather than 'doom and gloom merchants' - I'm not attempting to be antagonistic.
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Last time we drew a league game that we were losing. January 2016
Last time we won a league game we were losing. December 2014.
Both against Leicester at home.
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I ache for us to win from a losing position. I think it would make a fuck of a lot of difference to our mentality.
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As long as the latest in a string of managers put Westwood as first name on the team sheet we'll struggle. He's just not good enough - and certainly not good enough as one of the 'two' in the 4-2-3-1 system - neat and tidy but nevertheless ineffective when things are going well, and when things get tough he simply disappears.
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I blame the fans. We need replacements asap before the window closes.
;D
Seriously, we will be fine. Today sucks but we are going to be at the top of the table by Christmas. We are spending, getting good players, good manager & coaching staff. We will be fine.
edit: completely agreed about Westwood. Honestly he maybe a lovely chap but there is a pattern. When he is in our midfield , we are weaker. We just cant be carrying him anymore.
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I blame the fans. We need replacements asap before the window closes.
;D
Seriously, we will be fine. Today sucks but we are going to be at the top of the table by Christmas. We are spending, getting good players, good manager & coaching staff. We will be fine.
That sounds a bit like when Ads kept telling us we were gonna "smash this league".
Mind you I hope you're right but I think we need some serious reinforcements before the deadline.
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The biggest step will be extending that opening 45 mins into 60-70 mins. We battered practically every side we played this season for exactly one half - extend that by an extra twenty minutes or so and you add another couple of goals. The main issue is coming out after half time with huge fear. If you've only got one goal, go and get another, quickly. Kill off any hope.
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I could never work out why before the season had started nobody was mentioning us for promotion. Not even top six! I can now.
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It is stunning how mentally feeble we are as a club. It isn't just the players. You'd honestly believe we had a white flag hung over the our changing room door as the players walk out to start a game.
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It is stunning how mentally feeble we are as a club. It isn't just the players. You'd honestly believe we had a white flag hung over the our changing room door as the players walk out to start a game.
The thing is it's hardly surprising considering the mess the club's been in for years now. We were relegated as one of the worst ever PL teams. It's gonna take a monumental effort to turn us around.
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Our run in the league is now PL45 W4 D10 L31.
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It is stunning how mentally feeble we are as a club. It isn't just the players. You'd honestly believe we had a white flag hung over the our changing room door as the players walk out to start a game.
The thing is it's hardly surprising considering the mess the club's been in for years now. We were relegated as one of the worst ever PL teams. It's gonna take a monumental effort to turn us around.
Without a doubt. The confidence has been chipped away at for a number of years until last year when a sledgehammer was taken to it. What I just don't get right now is the incredibly good starts we make to games and to not simply have the required quality to put sides away. We should have a comfortable 9 points from today, Derby and Huddersfield. Instead it is a pathetic 2 because the clock strikes HT and Cinderella's carriage turns in to a pumpkin and we turn into tramps again.
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Westwood.
Shite. Utter dogshite. Everytime these Mickey Mouse twats come out second half they stop giving that gimp time on the ball and they press into him. I hope it's the last time the c*** plays for us.
It won't be....RDM likes him and in any case we hardly have much depth in CM.
there is no point playing Westwood with Jedi , we need a complete different type of midfielder than Westwood.
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It is stunning how mentally feeble we are as a club. It isn't just the players. You'd honestly believe we had a white flag hung over the our changing room door as the players walk out to start a game.
The thing is it's hardly surprising considering the mess the club's been in for years now. We were relegated as one of the worst ever PL teams. It's gonna take a monumental effort to turn us around.
Without a doubt. The confidence has been chipped away at for a number of years until last year when a sledgehammer was taken to it. What I just don't get right now is the incredibly good starts we make to games and to not simply have the required quality to put sides away. We should have a comfortable 9 points from today, Derby and Huddersfield. Instead it is a pathetic 2 because the clock strikes HT and Cinderella's carriage turns in to a pumpkin and we turn into tramps again.
We have to be more clinical in front of goal. We've missed so many chances this season it's unreal and this is why we're so desperate for a striker. Also we're weak in key areas like the midfield, and I know I sound like a broken record but Westwood has to be replaced because he's conned a career out of Villa when he should have been shown the door after 10 games.
A clean sweep of the old players is needed, and some serious recruitment is needed before Wednesday 11pm else we're gonna be a permanent fixture in the championship.
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As soon as the game starts to turn Westwood disappears into thin air. It's fucking unreal how he remains a starting option across so many managerial changes. I get the fact that we might not have a professional eye so to speak, but fucking hell you could be Steve Wonder and notice how completely inept he is. A complete non entity when you need him to be strong and resolute.
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As soon as the game starts to turn Westwood disappears into thin air. It's fucking unreal how he remains a starting option across so many managerial changes. I get the fact that we might not have a professional eye so to speak, but fucking hell you could be Steve Wonder and notice how completely inept he is. A complete non entity when you need him to be strong and resolute.
I entirely agree about the disappearing under pressure thing, but I'd add that that is something which seems to have affected our entire midfield for years.
To be fair, though, it's not just him. As a club, we always look like we're looking for an excuse to lose.
On the match thread today, after dominating for 45 minutes and not taking chances, every single fucking one of us just KNEW what was going to happen.
When they equalised, they were bound to get a second. When they went ahead, I'd have bet every single thing I own that we wouldn't have come back. Other sides going 2-1 down with 25 minutes left, you might have thought they had a chance to turn it around but not us, once that happens, we are finished.
It is something which has existed in the club for six years or so now, it is like some sort of defective gene, it just seems impossible to get rid of.
We genuinely have zero chance of promotion until we start to show for a spell of five or six games that we can shake that off. I am just worried that it isn't going to happen. When did we last look convincing for two or three games, let alone five or six?
It is early days thus far still, but I genuinely have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that we are going to get promoted. Assuming we'll just somehow manage it, just "because", as I think we probably all do a bit is just arrogant.
Thus far we've managed to look convincing for 90 minutes against one side, Rotherham, who are most peoples' bet for a side to go down.
We look decent for the odd half here and there, but that is exactly how we looked for much of last season, and look how that panned out.
The club need to wake the fuck up, and quickly.
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Depressingly impossible to disagree with any of that. It's as if the club DNA has been changed completely over the past few years to be as limp and subservient as its previous owner and board.
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Last time we won a league game after going behind was, by my reckoning, Leicester at home Dec 2014.
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Depressingly impossible to disagree with any of that. It's as if the club DNA has been changed completely over the past few years to be as limp and subservient as its previous owner and board.
I honestly think we just look like we're looking for an excuse to lose. It's bizarre.
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I just can't believe that after starting the season with a renewed optimism and great support from the fans (we haven't done a Small Heath and deserted in droves after relegation), a new owner, new board, new manager and coaching staff and new players who seem very much good enough for this league, which although a tough league is nowhere near the quality of the Premier League we still seem to be hamstrung by the car crash that was last season.
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Depressingly impossible to disagree with any of that. It's as if the club DNA has been changed completely over the past few years to be as limp and subservient as its previous owner and board.
I honestly think we just look like we're looking for an excuse to lose. It's bizarre.
The very definition of a self fulfilling prophecy. Believe in something enough and it becomes the truth. We almost expect that at some point in every game something bad will happen and it invariably does.
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I wonder what happens in our dressing room at half time. Does the manager shout at them? Do they shout at each other? Do they sit hunched up staring at their boots? What goes on that every game we play we come out in the second half as though they have had their blood sucked out of them by vampires for fifteen minutes? I defies explanation it is so predictable. If Allan Evans had been in that team today he would have decked Ayew.
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Pauliewalnuts you have hit the nail on the head......you need to send that to Dr X/the club
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I don't like the observation from Di Matteo that we looked like eleven players rather than a team, even though it's true. It's our job to notice that, Roberto; it's your job to notice it AND fix it.
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Until we get the crucial goals when it matters (McCormack at Weds, Ayew v Hudds and Bacuna today) we are inviting teams to punish us. And invariably they do. The reason? No killer instinct, no real desire to win. It's RDMs job to change the mentality, and bloody soon.
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Any one of us if we had the ability, and the youth would play each game as if our lives depended on it. There is nothing like that in this squal, they all appear and have for some time to be just about doing enough to get by. That has to be reversed. We need players to start loving the club not seeing it as a stepping stone to something they perceive to be better.
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In the five live games I have seen this season the only player we have prepared to run and chase until he drops is Rushian Hepburn Murphy and he does not even make the bench.
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Depressingly impossible to disagree with any of that. It's as if the club DNA has been changed completely over the past few years to be as limp and subservient as its previous owner and board.
I honestly think we just look like we're looking for an excuse to lose. It's bizarre.
It shouldn't really like this though with an owner with fresh ideas and who is genuinely committed to the club. The manager is proven at this level so knows what it takes over a 46 game season.
And we've signed proven players at this level.
Struggling to put my finger on it.
I certainly am not demanding us to win every game or win games 5-0 but the lack of goals and squandering of leads is very worrying. At least it's early on in the season though. The warning signs are there, let's hope they're heeded.
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Good point. I loathe ManU but they were an example of how team ethos does really matter. How many times back in the day did you think "Its Ferguson's ManU, even though they are 2 goals down with 10 mins to play I expect them to pull it back."?
We seem to be the opposite. I have no idea how to change it, but it has been there for a while. Thinking about it the last time I saw any fight from a Villa manager or team under pressure it was Lamberts triple substituion at the Hawthorns.
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I wonder whether the players and staff have fallen under the spell of "We are Aston Villa, Champions of Europe, Greatest team ever" rather than "We are Aston Villa, Champions of fuck all anymore and they need us to get out of this fucking mess"
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The Lerner disaster still permeates within this club after so many years of inept performances. It'll take a couple of seasons to sort this out. I'm not sure if RDM is the right man. But we have to back him for the time being.
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Only 5 pages? A thoroughly depressing result for me. Was very optimistic after two recent signings and then saw 1 nil at half time. totally shocked be ft result. A season defining result I feel. Made even worse by blues and Toon results.
I've just forgotten what it feels like to go into a game assuming we'll take points.
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Only 5 pages? A thoroughly depressing result for me. Was very optimistic after two recent signings and then saw 1 nil at half time. totally shocked be ft result. A season defining result I feel. Made even worse by blues and Toon results.
I've just forgotten what it feels like to go into a game assuming we'll take points.
Season defining?! The fifth game, season defining?! Bloody hell, get a grip. It was a poor result but it's too soon for that sort of melodrama. There's a week left to bring in new players and 41 games to play.
And the Blose and Toon results don't make it worse, they change nothing. Don't let that bunch of buffoons worry you.
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Who gives a flying fuck about the Blues result? If anything I'd say its a good result for us in the long run anyway.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
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Who gives a flying fuck about the Blues result? If anything I'd say its a good result for us in the long run anyway.
Given that I'm assuming most of us haven't abandoned all hope of promotion just yet and I think Norwich are likely to be stronger challengers than Small Heath I totally agree.
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Today was bad and clearly work needs to be done, but let's not get carried away. We've signed a lot of new players, and will sign more, we've got a new owner and new management staff. To say today was 'season defining' is nonsense. We've played 5 games and we have 41 left. The owner is doing what he said when it comes to recruitment and the manager needs time to change the mentality of the squad.
Before today's game I felt we were doing the right things to get this club back on track and we've been trying to get the right people to do that. A bad result, no matter how frustrating it was, doesn't change that.
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We are a team that cannot carry anybody and at the moment we are carrying, Ayew, Baccuna and Westwood, all players capable to a degree when everything in the garden is rosy, but as soon as the going gets tough, one sulks and the other two disappear, RDM needs to stiffen up resolve and determination of the team and leave those 3 as options off the bench, not starters, very few teams will give us anything in this league, we will have to work for it and earn it.
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Also f..k the unwashed and the geordie wankers, we need to only worry about AVFC.
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I agree completely about the need to not overreact after five games. That is self evident common sense. What I am bothered about is the constant theme of second half terror. It is affecting new players who seem to have caught the habit from last season's players still in the team. If the games we have lost or drawn had had other flaws it would be easier to believe that unfamiliarity among the players was to blame but the Groundhog Day nature of our capitulations suggests something more deep rooted that has to be addressed immediately.
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We are a team that cannot carry anybody and at the moment we are carrying, Ayew, Baccuna and Westwood, all players capable to a degree when everything in the garden is rosy, but as soon as the going gets tough, one sulks and the other two disappear, RDM needs to stiffen up resolve and determination of the team and leave those 3 as options off the bench, not starters, very few teams will give us anything in this league, we will have to work for it and earn it.
Nail on head
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we're living under some kind of evil star; unbelievable, strange, but true.
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I think there are 3 issues. 1 that the new ones and old need a bit of time to gel - which is fixed naturally in a few weeks.
2. That we are simply not getting the breaks. I disagree about us not looking good enough, for 45-60 minutes of each game we have looked the better team and not got the rub. Post, bars, missed chances galore, last season we looked beaten after 10 minutes, this year we look like we are capable but confidence is very, very fragile.
3. A very inexperienced keeper. Lets face it, there is a very good chance we would be on at least 9 points and all talking about a solid enough start if we had a reasonably solid keeper. Marshall from Cardiff, Patillimon, loaning someone out of favour like the Boro number 3 that kept 17 clean sheets last season. Just a safe pair behind the defence. It would calm some of the jitters.
I think we will make the play offs, because we are actually a decent team, with good players at this level, that will sort it out.
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The experienced players need to show some leadership to ensure that any notion that we are a soft touch gets nipped in the bud. It is pretty much a new team and as the manager and coaches have also changed I think any suggestion of a hangover from last season are a little tenuous and there is still a long way to go. To put it into perspective, when we have played 3 more games we will have the equivalent of a PL campaign still to go.
A major falling is not turning our periods of dominance into goals, a new striker will obviously be a step in the right direction and so far I think we have bought well this summer. So while I am as pissed off as the rest of you after yesterday I still think we have the basis of a good side for this league.
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We do have a lack of Steel but I thought signing Elphick, Chester & Jedinak would sort that
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The experienced players need to show some leadership to ensure that any notion that we are a soft touch gets nipped in the bud. It is pretty much a new team and as the manager and coaches have also changed I think any suggestion of a hangover from last season are a little tenuous and there is still a long way to go. To put it into perspective, when we have played 3 more games we will have the equivalent of a PL campaign still to go.
A major falling is not turning our periods of dominance into goals, a new striker will obviously be a step in the right direction and so far I think we have bought well this summer. So while I am as pissed off as the rest of you after yesterday I still think we have the basis of a good side for this league.
Agree completely.
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I also thought it was Ross Mac's job to bang in his obligatory 20?
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This squad is not good enough to get promoted, it looks like it is to big an ask to convert a 6 year losing streak into a championship winning team.
We still have no recognised striker, a goalkeeper that is a mistake a game and people like Bacuna and Ayew with the wrong attitude.
That is not to mention a lack of back up to cover for injuries and suspensions.
I have seen nothing from this management team to indicate that they are capable of arresting this situation.
Those believing that we will be back in the PL any time soon are kidding them selves.
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We still have to gel as a team and squad and this is the sort of performance and result that will happen whilst we do. This time around I don't see the management ignoring or glossing over the causes.It was always going to be a long job and things will improve a lot when our new foundations are established. This is a league where a bit of consistency moves you up the table rapidly so still enjoying the ride and experiencing the bumps for what they are.
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I also thought it was Ross Mac's job to bang in his obligatory 20?
Fair comment. Isn't he meant to be a goal machine? 1 in 6 is a Villaesque ratio. What was Heskey's?
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Our run in the league is now PL45 W4 D10 L31.
I knew it was bad, but thats just bloody awful. And we still get 35k to VP
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We still have to gel as a team and squad and this is the sort of performance and result that will happen whilst we do. This time around I don't see the management ignoring or glossing over the causes.It was always going to be a long job and things will improve a lot when our new foundations are established. This is a league where a bit of consistency moves you up the table rapidly so still enjoying the ride and experiencing the bumps for what they are.
and being in the same league next year, repeat
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1 - You're going to lose games in this division, everybody does (see Norwich, Newcastle, the recent history of the Championship).
2- There was bound to be a bit of a hangover from relegation, particularly one as pathetic as ours was, and you just can't wash that away within five games (see Graham Taylor first few games).
3 - Given the amount of changes in the team in such a short space of time, it will take some time for them to come together as a unit, for leaders to emerge and inspire some of the powderpuffs around them.
4- Up until yesterday, it had begun to look as if we'd stopped the rot, and with the right striker in, and assuming the GK would cut out the silly kicking mistakes, it seemed possible that we could go straight back up, not something I'd thought remotely likely a few months ago.
5- Jordan Ayew is a selfish prick, who only flatters to deceive, whose body language resembles that of Ronaldo's, but without anything even approaching a meaningful contribution. When Jack scored yesterday, Ayew couldn't even be bothered to celebrate with the rest of his teammates. He clearly doesn't want to be here, so the sooner we cash in on him in the presently unhinged transfer market (£16million?), and use the funds to buy a centre forward who's committed to our cause, the better.
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Until we get the crucial goals when it matters (McCormack at Weds, Ayew v Hudds and Bacuna today) we are inviting teams to punish us. And invariably they do. The reason? No killer instinct, no real desire to win. It's RDMs job to change the mentality, and bloody soon.
Totally agree but do we really really believe that RDM is the type of manager/personality who can achieve it?
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Agree Ormy and I noticed Ayews complete lack of excitement when we scored.
I do not think any one was expecting our points tally to be this low after 5 games though.
The fact that the squad rebuilding is some way off is huge cause for concern and not necessarily the fault of the owner or management.
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I always thought we might have a slow start and I didn't think we'd go up this year.
I had been starting to change my mind with the signings, with the way we've played in the first half of most of our games. I'm now less confident again
Despite all of the defensive, positional and motivational problems - stick an inform number 9 in that team and I still reckon we'd have put Bristol and Huddersfield out of sight at half time, and may well have beaten Derby too
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I always thought we might have a slow start and I didn't think we'd go up this year.
I had been starting to change my mind with the signings, with the way we've played in the first half of most of our games. I'm now less confident again
Despite all of the defensive, positional and motivational problems - stick an inform number 9 in that team and I still reckon we'd have put Bristol and Huddersfield out of sight at half time, and may well have beaten Derby too
The most critical areas on the pitch, goal scoring and goalkeeping, despite the millions spent has not been addressed.
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O.k we've dropped down a division.
From last summer it was demanded we got in a new owner (tick), get in a relatively proven manager (maybe didn't want Pearson so RDM at least ticked boxes for not being a) Nigel Pearson and b) having a promotion from this division so he knew what was coming this year.
We have slowly changed the team aswell. I wanted proven winners at this level and we've delievered that....Chester, Jedinak, De Laet, Elphick all regulars for promotion winning teams at this level. We also have a proven striker at this level who scores 20 goals at this level with his eyes closed apparently.
And yet we still can't win many football matches!
1 win from 5...that is a poor start.
What is wrong with this club? There should be a freshness about things with the changes but still we're making the same old mistakes....missing chances when on top, collapsing as soon as we concede a goal.
How many managers and overhauls of playing squads before we actually start doing something.
You can understand it at premier league level as we're facing world class players on an annual basis. Not now as these are mediocre teams so the results are much more embarrassment. But then we've had plenty of those in the cup in recent years so maybe it should've been expected as it all has the feeling of cup ties still.
Whatever something is still badly wrong at the club. What is it?
I totally feel your pain mate. I had this same conversation with my pals lin the pub ast night. Just what the hell has happened to the Villa? It's like the famous gypsies curse over at The Sty has manifested itself in Aston. As you say they are ticking all the boxes for what we wanted but somehow things have carried on where we left off. Baffled and gobsmacked in equal measure.
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I always thought we might have a slow start and I didn't think we'd go up this year.
I had been starting to change my mind with the signings, with the way we've played in the first half of most of our games. I'm now less confident again
Despite all of the defensive, positional and motivational problems - stick an inform number 9 in that team and I still reckon we'd have put Bristol and Huddersfield out of sight at half time, and may well have beaten Derby too
The most critical areas on the pitch, goal scoring and goalkeeping, despite the millions spent has not been addressed.
We have addressed the keeper position - we just may have done it badly!
McCormack will score goals. He's a slow starter who wasn't match fit
I expect a centre forward will still arrive. If it's £12m+ for kodjia I've a nasty feeling it will be a mistake though
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I always thought we might have a slow start and I didn't think we'd go up this year.
I had been starting to change my mind with the signings, with the way we've played in the first half of most of our games. I'm now less confident again
Despite all of the defensive, positional and motivational problems - stick an inform number 9 in that team and I still reckon we'd have put Bristol and Huddersfield out of sight at half time, and may well have beaten Derby too
The most critical areas on the pitch, goal scoring and goalkeeping, despite the millions spent has not been addressed.
We have addressed the keeper position - we just may have done it badly!
McCormack will score goals. He's a slow starter who wasn't match fit
I expect a centre forward will still arrive. If it's £12m+ for kodjia I've a nasty feeling it will be a mistake though
we are in the player value acceleration period and the more desperate as each day passes.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
Bacuna's done half decent so far but he's still not anything special. Westwood on the other hand has been his usual anonymous self. Honestly when are fans gonna realise the waster this man is? He's spent years making our midfield mediocre with displays of nothingness and it's time we finally got rid of him. We won't be promoted with him in our midfield.
The fans do realise what a useless player Westwood is. Question is when will the hierarchy realise it? He is not the sole reason we are in this utterly depressing situation but he has become a symbol of the club's current malaise. We have got only one crumb of comfort to cling on to. And that is in the shape of Tommy Elphick. Can he be the one to turn up at the training ground and lay the law down to the troops? I sincerely hope so.
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Our run in the league is now PL45 W4 D10 L31.
I knew it was bad, but thats just bloody awful. And we still get 35k to VP
Fucking ouch! That's even worse than I thought. Depressing.
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I wonder whether the players and staff have fallen under the spell of "We are Aston Villa, Champions of Europe, Greatest team ever" rather than "We are Aston Villa, Champions of fuck all anymore and they need us to get out of this fucking mess"
[/quote
Great point. I have banged on about this many times and usually get shot down for it but here goes.
Can the club PLEASE tear down those embarrassing banners about the European cup from 34 fucking years ago?Great memories but it's time to move on. Maybe then we just might make some new memories.
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Firstly, I think we should bin all this crap about gypsy curses. That's for the medieval knuckledraggers in Small Heath.
Secondly, I can't believe more people didn't expect a rough start. The juggernaut full of shit that thundered us out of the Premier League hasn't even slowed to a stop yet. It will eventually, and we will then start to turn it around. May take a season, may take two.
What I think has happened to us is largely psychological. A kind of big club syndrome. But the truth is big grounds, crowds, nice training facilities and sparkling trophy cabinets don't win football matches.
Only hard work, concentration and a bloody-minded will to win can get us the points we need. I didn't see the game yesterday, but how much did we look like we wanted, needed to win?
We're like a posh kid whose parents have lost their fortune, and who has been forced to leave his private school and attend an inner-city comprehensive. When it all boils down, we're really no better than the 'sister fuckers' and 'small time' clubs that keep bloodying our noses. That attitude of innate superiority has to end, right now.
We have to forget our glorious past, stop pampering players and learn some toughness. Hide the European Cup replica, take the star off the badge. We've lived on our pedigree for far too long and it's killing us.
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I'm not sure how relevant it is to worry about our form across the last couple of season, because those stats are going to look bad for a while regardless of what we do. We could win our next 5 on the bounce and our record over the last 50 games will be shit, but it won't actually reflect where we are at that point.
The relevant stats are that we've played 5 league games and taken 5 points. That's not good enough at the moment.
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I'm massively ashamed of us winning the European Cup.
Yours,
Sir Herbert
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Firstly, I think we should bin all this crap about gypsy curses. That's for the medieval knuckledraggers in Small Heath.
Secondly, I can't believe more people didn't expect a rough start. The juggernaut full of shit that thundered us out of the Premier League hasn't even slowed to a stop yet. It will eventually, and we will then start to turn it around. May take a season, may take two.
What I think has happened to us is largely psychological. A kind of big club syndrome. But the truth is big grounds, crowds, nice training facilities and sparkling trophy cabinets don't win football matches.
Only hard work, concentration and a bloody-minded will to win can get us the points we need. I didn't see the game yesterday, but how much did we look like we wanted, needed to win?
We're like a posh kid whose parents have lost their fortune, and who has been forced to leave his private school and attend an inner-city comprehensive. When it all boils down, we're really no better than the 'sister fuckers' and 'small time' clubs that keep bloodying our noses. That attitude of innate superiority has to end, right now.
We have to forget our glorious past, stop pampering players and learn some toughness. Hide the European Cup replica, take the star off the badge. We've lived on our pedigree for far too long and it's killing us.
Applause!! The nail is hit on the head right there.
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I wonder whether the players and staff have fallen under the spell of "We are Aston Villa, Champions of Europe, Greatest team ever" rather than "We are Aston Villa, Champions of fuck all anymore and they need us to get out of this fucking mess"
[/quote
Great point. I have banged on about this many times and usually get shot down for it but here goes.
Can the club PLEASE tear down those embarrassing banners about the European cup from 34 fucking years ago?Great memories but it's time to move on. Maybe then we just might make some new memories.
No idea what happened here. I do it from time to time. Lol.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
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I'm massively ashamed of us winning the European Cup.
Yours,
Sir Herbert
There's a difference between obscuring the European Cup a season after winning it, and still tossing off over it some 34 years later. History doesn't get you out of the lower leagues. See Preston North End, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Huddersfield, etc.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
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The amount we've spent and are spending suggests that a season or two won't cut it.
I don't think it's an attitude that's endemic rather a personnel matter and chiefly the fourth division player we still have disappearing in the middle of the pitch.
Other problems persist. We lack pace as an outlet. We move the ball too slowly and we are in our second season without a proper centre forward. It's ridiculous to top the chances created league yet find ourselves stuck on the current point and goal a game.
The opposition has been rank. Real Wednesday are massively unimpressive and we're bossed second half, yet we fell foul because we lack the core ingredients to win games. Ayew is spurning glorious opportunities.
He should, not could, should have scored or set up tap ins at Wednesday, Huddersfield and Bristol City. That sort of profligacy is going to cost you.
Huddersfield were one of the worst sides I've seen at Villa Park for an hour. Bristol were dire first half. There's no quality here and it's unacceptable.
The games change when they step up the pitch a few yards and press our middle. That's Westwood. He may look miles better than Gardner and he may have flown into a few more tackles but he cannot react because he doesn't contribute. He wilts and so do we. You cannot persist with a glaring hole right through your middle, on top of our poor finishing.
The absence of pace is a blood boiled. Scannell and Wells pressed our full backs and stopped us getting forward. Bristol did the same and they're free to do so because they're winning the ball so cheaply in midfield, 10-15 yards higher up and with nothing to worry about hitting them in behind.
To bring on Kozak twice is desperate stuff from RDM.
That we are a big club with some good players is playing into our hands as to a man every side we've played so far has filled their small club pants and given us plenty of room to play. We've only punished the diabolical Rotherham and it's cost us massively. It will take time to generate an élan and a winning culture because the side is so new, but it's got to happen soon as we can't keep dropping points.
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Being realistic, the size of the task to turn around a team according to PWS stats that has won 4 games in 45 is huge.
The complete shambles that Lerner left us in can not be under estimated.
They have done well to shift some of the deadwood but even now Agbonlahor Richards Lescott are still here and costing £120 grand a week.
Against this back ground we can ill afford to make any dud transfers and allready we are doubting the Goal keeping position which does not bode well.
I do not think we have time or resources to sort this out in one season and the problem is that next season relegated clubs will have much more fire power.
I do think we will improve as the team gells and with a few more changes but not nearly enough to get us in the top 2.
A play off place is far from certain either.
Thanks Guzan Agbonlahor Richards Bacuna Sherwood Fox Lambert Black and Lerner
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I also thought it was Ross Mac's job to bang in his obligatory 20?
Agreed, he is our big money signing and should be doing more. Can't help thinking his position is one we were reasonably covered with anyway.
He does seem a clever footballer but more Joe Cole than Robbie Keane at the moment. For our big money signing to be blowing out his arse after 60 mins is unacceptable.
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I know yesterday was shit but come on there's 40+ games to go this season, let's not get too hysterical about things.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
One of my closest pals is a nose. He said to me in all honesty that given the choice he would much rather see Villa lose 5 nil than see blues win 5 nil. It affects my life and I want them fuckers to lose and keep on losing.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
One of my closest pals is a nose. He said to me in all honesty that given the choice he would much rather see Villa lose 5 nil than see blues win 5 nil. It affects my life and I want them fuckers to lose and keep on losing.
Which brings you down to their level.
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If we're honest, we are both obsessed. Small Heath are obsessed with Aston Villa. And so are we.
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If we're honest, we are both obsessed. Small Heath are obsessed with Aston Villa. And so are we.
You see it every time we play them - they drag us down. How many times in the average game do we sing about them? It's embarassing.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
One of my closest pals is a nose. He said to me in all honesty that given the choice he would much rather see Villa lose 5 nil than see blues win 5 nil. It affects my life and I want them fuckers to lose and keep on losing.
Which brings you down to their level.
True
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
One of my closest pals is a nose. He said to me in all honesty that given the choice he would much rather see Villa lose 5 nil than see blues win 5 nil. It affects my life and I want them fuckers to lose and keep on losing.
Dave's right. Just because they spend every waking hour obsessing about us, it doesn't mean you have to and besides, it would rile your mate knowing that you don't give a fuck how they get on. His obsession is his problem, not yours.
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If we're honest, we are both obsessed. Small Heath are obsessed with Aston Villa. And so are we.
No no no, their hatred for us is beyond belief.
We just mock and dislike them to a good extent.
When we play them it is there cup final wouldn't say that from a Villa perspective.
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If we're honest, we are both obsessed. Small Heath are obsessed with Aston Villa. And so are we.
They're our nearest neighbours so it's only natural really. They become even more relevant when we're in the same league as us as well.
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I also thought it was Ross Mac's job to bang in his obligatory 20?
Agreed, he is our big money signing and should be doing more. Can't help thinking his position is one we were reasonably covered with anyway.
He does seem a clever footballer but more Joe Cole than Robbie Keane at the moment. For our big money signing to be blowing out his arse after 60 mins is unacceptable.
I expected McCormack to be banging them in as well, but, to be fair to him, in the Observer today they've published a table of who's created the most chances in the Championship so far this season and McCormack tops the list with 20. It looks like that mobile striker can't come soon enough, and once that happens I think both the new striker and McCormack will start scoring for fun
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If we're honest, we are both obsessed. Small Heath are obsessed with Aston Villa. And so are we.
You see it every time we play them - they drag us down. How many times in the average game do we sing about them? It's embarassing.
Absoloutely agree, I cringe when I hear the Shit on the City, can we just ignore them?
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
Bacuna's done half decent so far but he's still not anything special. Westwood on the other hand has been his usual anonymous self. Honestly when are fans gonna realise the waster this man is? He's spent years making our midfield mediocre with displays of nothingness and it's time we finally got rid of him. We won't be promoted with him in our midfield.
The fans do realise what a useless player Westwood is. Question is when will the hierarchy realise it? He is not the sole reason we are in this utterly depressing situation but he has become a symbol of the club's current malaise. We have got only one crumb of comfort to cling on to. And that is in the shape of Tommy Elphick. Can he be the one to turn up at the training ground and lay the law down to the troops? I sincerely hope so.
I'm hoping TE decides to stop bangin' his Swede on an upright & does it on the bonces of some of our squad ponces. Better still, he starts banging a few heads together and issuing the riot act. Let's face it, RDM is never gonna do it (although SC certainly looks like he could dish it out). And how Westwood continues to deceive a succession of management teams is one of the great mysteries of our time. I can only think he's one of the world's eminent practitioners of massed hypnotism (ie more than one gullible idiot at any given time) - although the majority of supporters evidently ain't so stupid as to buy such jiggery pokery. AAAAAAAAARRRGGGGHH! >:(
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Please read my last post again.
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
One of my closest pals is a nose. He said to me in all honesty that given the choice he would much rather see Villa lose 5 nil than see blues win 5 nil. It affects my life and I want them fuckers to lose and keep on losing.
Dave's right. Just because they spend every waking hour obsessing about us, it doesn't mean you have to and besides, it would rile your mate knowing that you don't give a fuck how they get on. His obsession is his problem, not yours.
II'm not obsessed with blues that would be laughable. I live in Nechells which is 50/50 and it's hard to ignore the bastards!!
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I struggle to think of anything that influences me less than what Small Heath do.
Who gives a fuck?
Your in denial. I have to live, work, drink with the Villa obsessed tossers and my life will be made a misery over the bank holiday. I really do give a fuck what happens to that pile of shit from small heath.
You might give a fuck but it doesn't mean everyone else does. I couldn't give a shit about them either.
One of my closest pals is a nose. He said to me in all honesty that given the choice he would much rather see Villa lose 5 nil than see blues win 5 nil. It affects my life and I want them fuckers to lose and keep on losing.
Dave's right. Just because they spend every waking hour obsessing about us, it doesn't mean you have to and besides, it would rile your mate knowing that you don't give a fuck how they get on. His obsession is his problem, not yours.
II'm not obsessed with blues that would be laughable. I live in Nechells which is 50/50 and it's hard to ignore the bastards!!
But you said it effects your life. Rise above it, they're honestly not worth it.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
Bacuna's done half decent so far but he's still not anything special. Westwood on the other hand has been his usual anonymous self. Honestly when are fans gonna realise the waster this man is? He's spent years making our midfield mediocre with displays of nothingness and it's time we finally got rid of him. We won't be promoted with him in our midfield.
The fans do realise what a useless player Westwood is. Question is when will the hierarchy realise it? He is not the sole reason we are in this utterly depressing situation but he has become a symbol of the club's current malaise. We have got only one crumb of comfort to cling on to. And that is in the shape of Tommy Elphick. Can he be the one to turn up at the training ground and lay the law down to the troops? I sincerely hope so.
I'm hoping TE decides to stop bangin' his Swede on an upright & does it on the bonces of some of our squad ponces. Better still, he starts banging a few heads together and issuing the riot act. Let's face it, RDM is never gonna do it (although SC certainly looks like he could dish it out). And how Westwood continues to deceive a succession of management teams is one of the great mysteries of our time. I can only think he's one of the world's eminent practitioners of massed hypnotism (ie more than one gullible idiot at any given time) - although the majority of supporters evidently ain't so stupid as to buy such jiggery pokery. AAAAAAAAARRRGGGGHH! >:(
Jiggery pokery! ! Fantastic. Word (s) of the day.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
Again, nobody is saying it's 'their fault'. Theyre both poor players with a long history of being in a losing team.
You like them, I get it. But it doesn't make them good players, and you don't really have a leg to stand on defending either of them. They have no particular attribute. Westwood for one rarely assists or scores, dribbles, tackles or makes a decisive pass. Give me one shred of evidence which backs up your pro-Westwood stance.
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Until we get the crucial goals when it matters (McCormack at Weds, Ayew v Hudds and Bacuna today) we are inviting teams to punish us. And invariably they do. The reason? No killer instinct, no real desire to win. It's RDMs job to change the mentality, and bloody soon.
Getting crucial goals is certainly at the heart of the problem.
The last time we were in this mess, 8 players got 5 goals or more in the season. There were 15 goalscorers in total.
The problem with this squad is that when they go behind they panic as they wonder how they're going to score. There are too many players who're unlikely to grab that vital goal to get back into the game.
How many are going to get more than 5 this season?
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At this early moment in a long season the main concern must be that Jordan Ayew is not going to score a barrowload of goals as most of us expected. He might yet do so but the signs are not encouraging. My main concern,as ever, is that we do not have a winger with pace to get behind his full back and arrow it across the goalmouth.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
Again, nobody is saying it's 'their fault'. Theyre both poor players with a long history of being in a losing team.
You like them, I get it. But it doesn't make them good players, and you don't really have a leg to stand on defending either of them. They have no particular attribute. Westwood for one rarely assists or scores, dribbles, tackles or makes a decisive pass. Give me one shred of evidence which backs up your pro-Westwood stance.
The fact that every single one of our managers since we signed him thinks he contributes sufficiently to pick him. Of course you'll retort they were all shit managers, but they wouldn't have been managing pl clubs if they didn't have some football knowledge - more than most posters on Internet forums I suspect. So there is my evidence, thanks.
I've said before I think he adds balance to the team, keeps the ball moving, works hard and is always available as an outlet to a teammate under pressure. Not every player scores 40 yard screamers or knocks opponents into the stands, you need a balanced team and when we play well Westwood usually looks like he is helping the team tick over. I'm not saying he's a world beater and of course could be upgraded, but blaming our collapses on him when the manager has signed practically a whole new team is just ridiculous.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
Bacuna's done half decent so far but he's still not anything special. Westwood on the other hand has been his usual anonymous self. Honestly when are fans gonna realise the waster this man is? He's spent years making our midfield mediocre with displays of nothingness and it's time we finally got rid of him. We won't be promoted with him in our midfield.
The fans do realise what a useless player Westwood is. Question is when will the hierarchy realise it? He is not the sole reason we are in this utterly depressing situation but he has become a symbol of the club's current malaise. We have got only one crumb of comfort to cling on to. And that is in the shape of Tommy Elphick. Can he be the one to turn up at the training ground and lay the law down to the troops? I sincerely hope so.
I'm hoping TE decides to stop bangin' his Swede on an upright & does it on the bonces of some of our squad ponces. Better still, he starts banging a few heads together and issuing the riot act. Let's face it, RDM is never gonna do it (although SC certainly looks like he could dish it out). And how Westwood continues to deceive a succession of management teams is one of the great mysteries of our time. I can only think he's one of the world's eminent practitioners of massed hypnotism (ie more than one gullible idiot at any given time) - although the majority of supporters evidently ain't so stupid as to buy such jiggery pokery. AAAAAAAAARRRGGGGHH! >:(
Jiggery pokery! ! Fantastic. Word (s) of the day.
Cheers bab. It's my life mission to make jiggery - and indeed pokery - a vital part of the modern vernacular. I also like widdershinnery, but I don't think the populous is quite ready for that yet. I'll keep ya posted on any developments though, obviously. ;)
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As stated by Rose and what a statement to make about a professional footballer
" Westwood for one rarely assists or scores, dribbles, tackles or makes a decisive pass" and thats when he is having a good game.
Chris W , yes when the game is going our way I can see what you are saying, he rotates the ball around the middle of the park and does what he does best, keeps it simple, but what he does not offer and has never in a Villa shirt, is the protection of the back 4, the ability to spot an opponents run and track him back, the breaking up of play by the opponents before it gets into a dangerous position for AVFC, we are at present playing with Ayew, Jack and RMc in a more forward positions, again none of their strengths are winning the ball back once lost, the Jedi has probably been brought in to do part of this,but he cannot do it on his own.
The lack of qualities that Westwood has, has already, will now and going forward cost us dearly.
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As stated by Rose and what a statement to make about a professional footballer
" Westwood for one rarely assists or scores, dribbles, tackles or makes a decisive pass" and thats when he is having a good game.
Chris W , yes when the game is going our way I can see what you are saying, he rotates the ball around the middle of the park and does what he does best, keeps it simple, but what he does not offer and has never in a Villa shirt, is the protection of the back 4, the ability to spot an opponents run and track him back, the breaking up of play by the opponents before it gets into a dangerous position for AVFC, we are at present playing with Ayew, Jack and RMc in a more forward positions, again none of their strengths are winning the ball back once lost, the Jedi has probably been brought in to do part of this,but he cannot do it on his own.
The lack of qualities that Westwood has, has already, will now and going forward cost us dearly.
You've nailed it for me there. This current midfield perhaps wouldn't look so inadequate if we had a striker smashing 'em in for fun, but it's tactical suicide at the moment. I just hope RDM knows this only too well and addresses the glaringly obvious before the transfer window slams firmly shut. His short - & indeed extended - employment may well depend on it.
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
Again, nobody is saying it's 'their fault'. Theyre both poor players with a long history of being in a losing team.
You like them, I get it. But it doesn't make them good players, and you don't really have a leg to stand on defending either of them. They have no particular attribute. Westwood for one rarely assists or scores, dribbles, tackles or makes a decisive pass. Give me one shred of evidence which backs up your pro-Westwood stance.
The fact that every single one of our managers since we signed him thinks he contributes sufficiently to pick him. Of course you'll retort they were all shit managers, but they wouldn't have been managing pl clubs if they didn't have some football knowledge - more than most posters on Internet forums I suspect. So there is my evidence, thanks.
I've said before I think he adds balance to the team, keeps the ball moving, works hard and is always available as an outlet to a teammate under pressure. Not every player scores 40 yard screamers or knocks opponents into the stands, you need a balanced team and when we play well Westwood usually looks like he is helping the team tick over. I'm not saying he's a world beater and of course could be upgraded, but blaming our collapses on him when the manager has signed practically a whole new team is just ridiculous.
Ok mate, fair points.
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I know we keep coming back to this with Westwood, but you could say most of the criticisms above about Michael carrick too. I think a share of the criticism of Westwood is just that a good chunk of British fans just don't like that kind of player. Personally, I'd have put carrick in the England midfield for years, even if it meant dropping Gerrard or lampard.
Westwood isn't in the same league as carrick. But neither are villa.
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Our midfield is the least dynamic imaginable. Tshibola might be able to help, but we've got no pace and until Jedinak we've had no physicality.
Westwood keeps things ticking, but he's not particularly quick, particularly strong, his passings not particularly good, he doesn't score goals, or create them, he doesn't run with the ball to create space or put teams on the back foot. He's a passenger.
I was concerned about Ayew after the Huddersfield game, where I thought he looked quite sharp, because I thought even while playing quite well, he doesn't look effective.
If these are still going to be key players Di Matteo needs to find a better system to bring the best out of them.
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I know yesterday was shit but come on there's 40+ games to go this season, let's not get too hysterical about things.
A fair point. I was furious yesterday. Despite that 4 wins in 45 though, we've created enough chances to have won every game. That's different from last season where we didn't look like we were playing the same sport
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What's really frustrating about Westwood more than anything was the promise he showed in his first season. Granted he still went missing in games but you could let that pass given his inexperience, but he still ended up with 6 assists which wasn't too shabby given where we'd signed him from. He was looking like a snip, like he could develop into a reasonable Prem midfielder. He's just ghosted his way through the last 3 years though.
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Teams rarely win games playing with ten men. We have rarely won games consistently for precisely the same period Westwood has featured for us. Not good enough.
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Correlation is not causation
Besides we didn't win many under MacLeish before Westwood arrived
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Correlation is not causation
Besides we didn't win many under MacLeish before Westwood arrived
I'm sorry but I'm tired of seeing Westwood representing AVFC and tired of berating his inclusion. If you can't see how his ineffectual performances are a major part of our problems on the pitch then what more can be said.
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If Barry bannan can get into the team of the season in this league then I'm sure Westwood can be good enough, at least as back up
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People need to be patient. If the likes of Man U and Co take seasons to rebuild with their financial backing, then i'm guessing a manager inheriting the worse side for 30 years deserves more than a month to get players in, forge an understanding between strangers and move forward. Yes. we're iffy at the moment but anyone thinking we're were gonna blow away all before us was in cloud cuckoo land anyway. We looked the better side in some of the games we've lost and though that doesn't get you promoted, its at least a major improvement on last season, and shows the side isn't too far off coming to grips with the Championship.
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its too early to panic, and blaming individual players is foolish. The club has indeed something wrong with it, and the changes never seem to work. The second half collapse is now standard and the division knows it. After 60 minutes, villa fall apart. And its happened time and again, Grealish must have felt he was back at Leicester last September.
So I would bring in a sport psychologist. They collapse too easily. The most ominous sign is not the points, there has been some bad luck. Its 20 yellow cards, 7 yesterday. Always a sign a team is in crisis when they give away silly fouls. 4 cards per game is bad, and with the thinness of the squad could cause a real disaster as we would have to play the kids.
Ah, something else, like the bomb squad, we have seen before. Lambert must think he has won the national lottery getting out this club. But why? What I causing the groundhog day at villa?
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It's never too early to panic as we have learned over the last few seasons and we don't need to be told to be patient as its been a recurring theme. If we can toy around with teams in this league in the first half and getting run over with ease in the second it should be fixable by coaching and fitness staff after all it's the same players. There is no time to waste we need to get out of this this season.
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Every word Aftab. Every word.
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It's never too early to panic as we have learned over the last few seasons and we don't need to be told to be patient as its been a recurring theme. If we can toy around with teams in this league in the first half and getting run over with ease in the second it should be fixable by coaching and fitness staff after all it's the same players. There is no time to waste we need to get out of this this season.
As someone who was told to be patient last season by others when it was quite clear we were totally awful in all departments and going down, i don't see the the connection. If we'd been completely terrible so far like last season then yes i'd be panicing but iffy as we are, we're still better than last season. In fact on the evidence so far, the current side would have made more of a fist of staying in the premier last season
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I am not lambasting Westwood because we got turned over by Bristol City but because I have seen nothing but season after season of sensory numbing, monotonous anonimity from him. By all means have the opinion that he can do a job for us this season. For the sake of my sanity I feel he should be improved upon regardless of the league we currently occupy.
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I wonder whether the players and staff have fallen under the spell of "We are Aston Villa, Champions of Europe, Greatest team ever" rather than "We are Aston Villa, Champions of fuck all anymore and they need us to get out of this fucking mess"
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Great point. I have banged on about this many times and usually get shot down for it but here goes.
Can the club PLEASE tear down those embarrassing banners about the European cup from 34 fucking years ago?Great memories but it's time to move on. Maybe then we just might make some new memories.
Yes please, please take them down. They make us look like past obsessed saddos.
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its too early to panic, and blaming individual players is foolish. The club has indeed something wrong with it, and the changes never seem to work. The second half collapse is now standard and the division knows it. After 60 minutes, villa fall apart. And its happened time and again, Grealish must have felt he was back at Leicester last September.
So I would bring in a sport psychologist. They collapse too easily.
That's actually spot on Trevor.
Graham Taylor had one far back in the dim distant past when men were men, so I don't get why any sports institution worth millions today wouldn't use it as another possible tool to get the best out of its assets.
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I wonder whether the players and staff have fallen under the spell of "We are Aston Villa, Champions of Europe, Greatest team ever" rather than "We are Aston Villa, Champions of fuck all anymore and they need us to get out of this fucking mess"
[/quote
Great point. I have banged on about this many times and usually get shot down for it but here goes.
Can the club PLEASE tear down those embarrassing banners about the European cup from 34 fucking years ago?Great memories but it's time to move on. Maybe then we just might make some new memories.
Yes please, please take them down. They make us look like past obsessed saddos.
I agree, that banner went up with the "Proud History, Bright Future" lies that we were fed. I'm happy to talk about 1982 and any year back to 1874 in the memories section here. Match day at Villa Park is about the here and now.
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The problem(s) are pretty clearly mental. Look on the match threads (on here and other fan sites) and you can see the fragile mindset of the fans, every missed chance was followed by "we're going to regret that" or "we all know what's coming" or similar. Then we concede and it's "only 1 winner from here" and "typical Villa". Those fears and uncertainties aren't only with us, that's part of the club psyche at the moment and what we really need is to have a game like this where we hang on for the win and another where we put them to the sword and take the chances. slowly build that confidence up that we can take the lead and win or that we can go into the last 15 level and take the points, getting that mental fortitude is a tough process but it's key to this. Buying in players who have it does help a little but they need to set examples or they'll get dragged down with the rest.
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I am hoping that after Wednesday things will settle down. There will be no more players coming in or leaving and the manager should be saying that's it until the New Year, the season starts now. Players will know their position and have a settled period of 4 months. RDM should have in his mind his first XI and the style of play he wants to develop. The international break is just what we need now and without the transfer fever distraction, there will be 10 days to get out at BMH and start to put in the hard work and begin to bond as a squad. I am hoping that the hangers on have been sold/loaned out as they are a distraction that we don't need and I imagine the likes of Westwood, Bacuna, Grealish etc. will be listening to them more than the new players, again something we do not need.
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Last time we where in division 2 we only won 1 of our first 7 games. Don't panic, we will be fine. Playoffs at least.
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I am hoping that after Wednesday things will settle down. There will be no more players coming in or leaving and the manager should be saying that's it until the New Year, the season starts now. Players will know their position and have a settled period of 4 months. RDM should have in his mind his first XI and the style of play he wants to develop. The international break is just what we need now and without the transfer fever distraction, there will be 10 days to get out at BMH and start to put in the hard work and begin to bond as a squad. I am hoping that the hangers on have been sold/loaned out as they are a distraction that we don't need and I imagine the likes of Westwood, Bacuna, Grealish etc. will be listening to them more than the new players, again something we do not need.
bodymoor heath is what worries me the most, as i dread to think what goes on there or more importantly what doesnt go on there
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5 games and less with some players. Give the manager a chance.
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I am hoping that after Wednesday things will settle down. There will be no more players coming in or leaving and the manager should be saying that's it until the New Year, the season starts now. Players will know their position and have a settled period of 4 months. RDM should have in his mind his first XI and the style of play he wants to develop. The international break is just what we need now and without the transfer fever distraction, there will be 10 days to get out at BMH and start to put in the hard work and begin to bond as a squad. I am hoping that the hangers on have been sold/loaned out as they are a distraction that we don't need and I imagine the likes of Westwood, Bacuna, Grealish etc. will be listening to them more than the new players, again something we do not need.
bodymoor heath is what worries me the most, as i dread to think what goes on there or more importantly what doesnt go on there
I will chip in to buy them some paint for the grass. I am assuming we are out as out players look surprised, shocked and confused every time we get a throw in or corner*.
*Yeah yeah, I know, McCormack actually takes a decent corner. We havent trained it out of him yet.
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The problem(s) are pretty clearly mental. Look on the match threads (on here and other fan sites) and you can see the fragile mindset of the fans, every missed chance was followed by "we're going to regret that" or "we all know what's coming" or similar. Then we concede and it's "only 1 winner from here" and "typical Villa". Those fears and uncertainties aren't only with us, that's part of the club psyche at the moment and what we really need is to have a game like this where we hang on for the win and another where we put them to the sword and take the chances. slowly build that confidence up that we can take the lead and win or that we can go into the last 15 level and take the points, getting that mental fortitude is a tough process but it's key to this. Buying in players who have it does help a little but they need to set examples or they'll get dragged down with the rest.
Agreed. But for all the merit in having more "characters" or a sports psychologist, if we'd have just gone two up in the Bristol and Huddersfield games, I think we probably would have seen them out. And that would have done so much for everyone's self belief
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This season we have seen three classic capitulations. Boro in the final warm up game, Luton in the League Cup and Bristol City last Saturday. Games we have dominated, missed chances then upon conceding a goal, collapsed, conceded more goals and been penned in our own half. The pattern is only too familiar. It is clear that it is a mental problem. The odd thing is that on the evidence of last Saturday, previously mentally robust players like Jedinek, De Laet, Chester and Elphick show the same symptoms of needless panic.
I have long thought that we have a Mary Mallan, a panic spreading Typhoid Mary in our ranks. In turn over the last couple of seasons I have thought it was Sanchez, then Richards, then Clark, then Guzan, then Veretout, then Gana, but none of them was present last Saturday but the panic and capitulation was identical to all those preceding it.
It must start with one player. However quickly it spreads through the team it has to have ignition. Of course the alternative is that the spark that starts the surrender is incident not player driven. It could be goalkeeping howlers or missed sitters or perceived refereeing bias or needless fouls conceded around our penalty area. I still think it will not stop until whoever it is who triggers the white flag is omitted from the team.
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In other words, it's Westwood's fault?
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And when he is bombed who will you blame then? This is not down to one player. If anything it is down to the manager, but more likely just low confidence whilst the team finds its feet.
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My personal opinion currently is that it is Leandro Bacuna. Not because he is playing badly, his form is much better than it was and I admire him for the way he has coped with the way over the top fan abuse. He is like a racehorse that can get its head in front anywhere but on the winning line. He can play well, for spells he does play well but he cannot play even tolerably well when it really matters.
I have been wrong before, most likely I am wrong again.
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I don't think it's down to one player. As I've said before, I think it goes much deeper than that. But what I do know after four years of watching Westwood is that he isn't anywhere near good enough, he should never have been a Villa player in the first place, and it's because we filled our squad with dross like him that we're in the position we're in.
I don't think Bacuna can be relied upon, either, for that matter. A grinning halfwit.
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Westwood has to go, the most passive central midfielder in the top two divisions.
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I just think it is a mentality that needs to be re-set within this club.
We somehow need to wipe the slate clean mentally and start from fresh.
I hoped that would have started with a new owner and management team, but i think any of the players from last season are still scarred.
Look at the reaction of Ayew when Grealish scored, he did not celebrate or congratulate Jack with the other team mates.
Ayew, Westwood, Bacuna, Grealish, Gestede probably all need a brainwash after last season.
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No its not down to one player, but he's a weak link in a significant area. It's Westwood who cannot move the ball quickly, Westwood who lack athleticism to drive the game on, Westwood who lacks physicality to stand up to pressure, Westwood who lacks the ability to create and score, Westwood who when pressed cannot shield a back four.
He's woeful.
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I think over the last few seasons we have had too many players that lack composure. This can come from lack of confidence over a short term which players can play themselves out of or it can be just part of a players make up in that they never play naturally, it always looks laboured. With the latter, as soon as things start going against the individual or the team, they do the easy thing and hide. They will not take responsibility and become passengers in the game.
In different parts of the pitch, this can be seen in forwards not pressing 100%, not tracking back effectively and not making runs into space. With fullbacks it is usually the attacking side of their game that goes, not wanting the ball or trying to make decisive passes and this results in their defensive play coming under pressure. With central defenders, their concentration starts to go and they also do not want to take responsibility for building play from the back.
The most important part of the pitch, however, is midfield. Games are won and lost there and I believe that is our problem. We have 2 players in there in Westwood and Bacuna that are mentally weak when things start going against us. They do not raise their game when the opposition start to get on top, the exact opposite happens. Added to these two, the midfield has to carry Grealish because of what he offers going forward but if we start to lose the midfield, he becomes ineffective. Tshibola looks to have potential but he does not have any experience and I think we are expecting too much from him at this stage. We therefore need a midfield general to replace Westwood and then use him and Bacuna as squad players.
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I don't think it's down to one player. As I've said before, I think it goes much deeper than that. But what I do know after four years of watching Westwood is that he isn't anywhere near good enough, he should never have been a Villa player in the first place, and it's because we filled our squad with dross like him that we're in the position we're in.
I don't think Bacuna can be relied upon, either, for that matter. A grinning halfwit.
this 100%
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I think over the last few seasons we have had too many players that lack composure. This can come from lack of confidence over a short term which players can play themselves out of or it can be just part of a players make up in that they never play naturally, it always looks laboured. With the latter, as soon as things start going against the individual or the team, they do the easy thing and hide. They will not take responsibility and become passengers in the game.
In different parts of the pitch, this can be seen in forwards not pressing 100%, not tracking back effectively and not making runs into space. With fullbacks it is usually the attacking side of their game that goes, not wanting the ball or trying to make decisive passes and this results in their defensive play coming under pressure. With central defenders, their concentration starts to go and they also do not want to take responsibility for building play from the back.
The most important part of the pitch, however, is midfield. Games are won and lost there and I believe that is our problem. We have 2 players in there in Westwood and Bacuna that are mentally weak when things start going against us. They do not raise their game when the opposition start to get on top, the exact opposite happens. Added to these two, the midfield has to carry Grealish because of what he offers going forward but if we start to lose the midfield, he becomes ineffective. Tshibola looks to have potential but he does not have any experience and I think we are expecting too much from him at this stage. We therefore need a midfield general to replace Westwood and then use him and Bacuna as squad players.
Very much this! It's sometimes hard to spot players hiding, but ours have become experts over the last few seasons. It's almost like its part of the coaching set up. We need players that make themselves available for a pass, even when we go a goal down. Most of ours seem to evaporate into thin air.
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No its not down to one player, but he's a weak link in a significant area. It's Westwood who cannot move the ball quickly, Westwood who lack athleticism to drive the game on, Westwood who lacks physicality to stand up to pressure, Westwood who lacks the ability to create and score, Westwood who when pressed cannot shield a back four.
He's woeful.
Best summary of Westwood I've ever seen. Kudos.
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Very much this! It's sometimes hard to spot players hiding, but ours have become experts over the last few seasons. It's almost like its part of the coaching set up. We need players that make themselves available for a pass, even when we go a goal down. Most of ours seem to evaporate into thin air.
I blame Lambert for this. The first midfielder I saw hiding so obviously as a regular part of his game was Karim El Ahmadi.
I don't get it, because Lambert is arguably the most technically qualified manager we've ever had with the badges he'd got back in Germany but the coaching under him seems to have ingrained the mentality we now can't shift.
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I blame Lambert for most things.
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Westwood, Bacuna are prime examples of the type of players we have filled our midfield with since sorry to say Pubehead left, Milner was probably the last fit for purpose midfielder we have had at Villa park, we have all at times ripped our defensive players apart, but in all honesty what sort of protection have they had, our goalscorers have come in for plenty for a lack of goals, but apart from Benteke who could make his own goals, look at the service we have given them, a world class provider like N'Zog (hahaha), light weights like Gill.
A blind man can see it is our inadequate ability's in midfield and our lack of application to sort it, that has placed us where we are now and will continue to keep us at this level unless we address it very very quickly. Westwood is shite, but he at times has been least shite of the options we have to replace, see world star Gardner when not available or away on loan, not so much world star now we have had to use him.
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The Westwood / Delph / cleverly midfield three was definitely a decent premier league midfield
It wasn't creative particularly. What we needed was genuine creativity in the wide attack positions and from full back, plus a proper number 10 option to play against weaker teams
Instead we had guys like Andreas Weimann and gabby in those positions
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Two constants from our shite last few seasons - Westwood and Bacuna - are still in senior roles. It's no surprise to me that with their contributions, we're as solid as a paper aeroplane in a tornado.
Absolute bollocks. Two of our better players this season. It's their fault the whole fucking team collapse in the second half?
i know the result as soon as I see thier names on the team sheet.
Bacuna's done half decent so far but he's still not anything special. Westwood on the other hand has been his usual anonymous self. Honestly when are fans gonna realise the waster this man is? He's spent years making our midfield mediocre with displays of nothingness and it's time we finally got rid of him. We won't be promoted with him in our midfield.
The fans do realise what a useless player Westwood is. Question is when will the hierarchy realise it? He is not the sole reason we are in this utterly depressing situation but he has become a symbol of the club's current malaise. We have got only one crumb of comfort to cling on to. And that is in the shape of Tommy Elphick. Can he be the one to turn up at the training ground and lay the law down to the troops? I sincerely hope so.
I'm hoping TE decides to stop bangin' his Swede on an upright & does it on the bonces of some of our squad ponces. Better still, he starts banging a few heads together and issuing the riot act. Let's face it, RDM is never gonna do it (although SC certainly looks like he could dish it out). And how Westwood continues to deceive a succession of management teams is one of the great mysteries of our time. I can only think he's one of the world's eminent practitioners of massed hypnotism (ie more than one gullible idiot at any given time) - although the majority of supporters evidently ain't so stupid as to buy such jiggery pokery. AAAAAAAAARRRGGGGHH! >:(
Jiggery pokery! ! Fantastic. Word (s) of the day.
Cheers bab. It's my life mission to make jiggery - and indeed pokery - a vital part of the modern vernacular. I also like widdershinnery, but I don't think the populous is quite ready for that yet. I'll keep ya posted on any developments though, obviously. ;)
OK mate 😀
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Matt C , Delph was not a bad player, but spent to much of his time with Villa injured, Cleverly, sorry played about 6 reasonable games for tactic Tim, so if that has what you have been able to name reference my point since pubehead left, I think it makes my point.
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The Westwood / Delph / cleverly midfield three was definitely a decent premier league midfield
It wasn't creative particularly. What we needed was genuine creativity in the wide attack positions and from full back, plus a proper number 10 option to play against weaker teams
Instead we had guys like Andreas Weimann and gabby in those positions
You obviously like Westwood but the 3 man midfield you mentioned played well for less than 10 games the season before last and that was when Cleverly raised his game and was linking with Bacuna at RB. That midfield was never PL level as it had a weak centre to it. We looked good when we bypassed midfield by hitting runners with long balls from the back or when Delph, Grealish and Benteke were playing in simple triangles.
From what I see of Westwood is he keeps the ball moving by playing simple balls wide but to players who are generally in less threatening positions than he is i.e. passing responsibility to others. I very rarely see him get involved in triangular play or quick one-two's, as he lacks speed off the mark. He is the typical player that flatters to deceive by being tidy in possession. Great for a defensive midfielder that tackles, picks up players, organises etc. but he doesn't do those things well and, therefore, his offensive game is not good enough. For a player that has played around 100 PL games, his game should have improved with experience but it hasn't. We have brought in a string of half decent international players but none of them have been able to play with Westwood and have then looked fair to poor and been moved on.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BJsOtotjxka/
Is this what they do when they are supposedly injured? No wonder we are going downhill. Another social media gaff?
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BJsOtotjxka/
Is this what they do when they are supposedly injured? No wonder we are going downhill. Another social media gaff?
I'm not sure what he's doing wrong there?
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I assume it's the "sauced up" bit.
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The Westwood / Delph / cleverly midfield three was definitely a decent premier league midfield
It wasn't creative particularly. What we needed was genuine creativity in the wide attack positions and from full back, plus a proper number 10 option to play against weaker teams
Instead we had guys like Andreas Weimann and gabby in those positions
You obviously like Westwood but the 3 man midfield you mentioned played well for less than 10 games the season before last and that was when Cleverly raised his game and was linking with Bacuna at RB. That midfield was never PL level as it had a weak centre to it. We looked good when we bypassed midfield by hitting runners with long balls from the back or when Delph, Grealish and Benteke were playing in simple triangles.
From what I see of Westwood is he keeps the ball moving by playing simple balls wide but to players who are generally in less threatening positions than he is i.e. passing responsibility to others. I very rarely see him get involved in triangular play or quick one-two's, as he lacks speed off the mark. He is the typical player that flatters to deceive by being tidy in possession. Great for a defensive midfielder that tackles, picks up players, organises etc. but he doesn't do those things well and, therefore, his offensive game is not good enough. For a player that has played around 100 PL games, his game should have improved with experience but it hasn't. We have brought in a string of half decent international players but none of them have been able to play with Westwood and have then looked fair to poor and been moved on.
I'd say it had more to do with us completely running out of steam after having both gotten out of the relegation hole we dug ourselves, and in getting to the cup Final. Arsenal would have pissed all over us regardless, but there was absolutely no intensity in those final few games.
The thing I don't get about Westwood is that we've had multiple managers now who keep on starting him - I remember people saying that Sherwood had sussed him out when he was initially consigned to the bench under him, but of course he made his way back into the team and was ever-present from the cup semifinal vs Liverpool onwards. I find it difficult to believe that so many experienced football men can have a blindspot for him. Maybe it's the ex-midfielders union, thinking about it - Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, the lot of them, and they probably appreciated having a tidy player supporting them.
I thought Gana was supposed to be his replacement, but instead we tried playing him next to Westwood - he started off brilliantly, but I'm pretty sure he started being counted on to be more influential in the final third because there was nobody else who could do that, which isn't his game, and I think his struggles with that contributed to the narrative fans built up about how he was rubbish at passing. It sounds like he's had a great start to his Everton career as well, and I bet if he isn't ask to do too much, he'll be appearing in plenty of "signing of the season" lists come May.
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The players simply are not fit enough, when teams step it up against us in the second half we don't have the fitness to press them, we get tired, concede ground, lose our shape and then it backs to the wall trying not to concede the inevitable goals.
With our squad, even short of a few signings, if we increase the fitness levels we will be in with a good shout of promotion. I really think it's that simple.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BJsOtotjxka/
Is this what they do when they are supposedly injured? No wonder we are going downhill. Another social media gaff?
I'm not sure what he's doing wrong there?
He's slouching, and wearing a tracksuit. Hanging is too good. etc, etc.
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Why is every other team, regardless of the level they play at, fitter than us? There is no excuse for it. Have any of you seen a team on the same pitch as us who looked less capable of playing for 95 minutes?
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No, it seemed to get better under Sherwood for a few games when Delph and Cleverley were playing well together but that was pretty short lived as well.
It really should be the easiest shortcoming to remedy.
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Why is every other team, regardless of the level they play at, fitter than us? There is no excuse for it. Have any of you seen a team on the same pitch as us who looked less capable of playing for 95 minutes?
I know it's been going on for years
I thought we had some Italian fitness fella who was supposed to be the top man for getting players into shape ?
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Fitness starts in the mind.
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Something that's wrong for me (going by our twitter fans) is the seemingly overwhelming desire to replace well performing players with others simply because they're unfashionable
Two classic examples. For me, our best defence by far this season is Bacuna Elphick Chester Cissokho. I never thought i'd utter positives about those two full backs but fair play to them they've both performed very well in the defence so far for me.
And yet all i keep reading is 'bring in Amavi' 'drop Cissokho' etc. Why?
Why would any manager drop players that are performing well? I can't make any logic of it at all.
Is it a coincidence the two games we've fell apart defensively and conceded 3 goals in each Cissokho hasn't been playing?. Maybe it is, but i'm not so sure. Amavi is the glamour left back no doubt, and we all wish him well after that horrific injury. But surely he should earn his place back not just replace someone that's doing fine?
Watch Bristol's second goal and where it all came from. Shocking stuff.
Until Amavi can defend as part of a unit (a pretty standard thing for a defender in my eyes) then i see no reason at all for him to be in the first eleven.
Rant over.
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All this tweeting between fans and our good Dr about players, will definitely filter back to players and management too,
which honestly cant be a good thing.
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I agree w the above. Cissokho and bacuna have been two of our better players this season. Bacuna in particular has created numberous chances with his crossing.
I've not been a fan of either but you've got to recognise good performances
I wouldn't start Amavi ahead of cissokho at all at the moment. In fact, I might pick de laet ahead of Amavi if cissokho isn't fit, until Amavi gets more game time. He should be playing for the under 23s to get match ready
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A deeply disturbing stat doing the rounds on "social media?" at the moment regarding Ibrahimovic and AVFC.
I cant bring myself to post it.
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A deeply disturbing stat doing the rounds on "social media?" at the moment regarding Ibrahimovic and AVFC.
I cant bring myself to post it.
i think we are past feeling any more humiliated by stats mate.
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A deeply disturbing stat doing the rounds on "social media?" at the moment regarding Ibrahimovic and AVFC.
I cant bring myself to post it.
What, he has never managed to win the European Cup/Champions League. Never at the right club at the right time. Flat-track bully?
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A deeply disturbing stat doing the rounds on "social media?" at the moment regarding Ibrahimovic and AVFC.
I cant bring myself to post it.
Something like we lost more league games last season than Ibrahimovic has lost since 2006?
I think that was "doing the rounds" back in May.
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A deeply disturbing stat doing the rounds on "social media?" at the moment regarding Ibrahimovic and AVFC.
I cant bring myself to post it.
Something like we lost more league games last season than Ibrahimovic has lost since 2006?
I think that was on here back in May.
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Something that's wrong for me (going by our twitter fans) is the seemingly overwhelming desire to replace well performing players with others simply because they're unfashionable
Two classic examples. For me, our best defence by far this season is Bacuna Elphick Chester Cissokho. I never thought i'd utter positives about those two full backs but fair play to them they've both performed very well in the defence so far for me.
And yet all i keep reading is 'bring in Amavi' 'drop Cissokho' etc. Why?
Why would any manager drop players that are performing well? I can't make any logic of it at all.
Is it a coincidence the two games we've fell apart defensively and conceded 3 goals in each Cissokho hasn't been playing?. Maybe it is, but i'm not so sure. Amavi is the glamour left back no doubt, and we all wish him well after that horrific injury. But surely he should earn his place back not just replace someone that's doing fine?
Watch Bristol's second goal and where it all came from. Shocking stuff.
Until Amavi can defend as part of a unit (a pretty standard thing for a defender in my eyes) then i see no reason at all for him to be in the first eleven.
Rant over.
I had taken to calling Cissokho, 'Ally Alves' such was his good performance against Rotherham from an attacking sense. Agree with what you say. I would like to see Jack play central furrher forward so Amavi could play left midfield a la Bale perhaps
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It's probably vastly unfair, and I've only seen the Wednesday and Derby games this season, but I always think Cissokho looks like a right back being asked to play left back, such is his apparent discomfort on the ball.
It was heartening to hear some people talking of improved performances, but he still gives me the heeby jeebies, every time he's on the ball in our half.
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On the wider picture, if we win our next two very winnable games at home (forest and Brentford) things will look a lot rosier
That's quite a big if, but it's what we need to aim for and we should be able to do it
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Well it's all settled down after the window, the owner has calmed down a bit on Twitter, we have 9 new signings, so at last we are starting to click. Oh hang on.
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We seem to be cursed in matches now as others have said, Forest had what 2 shots on goal and scored twice while we did our usual hitting post/bar/opposition keeper 100 times impression.
The second half was good though and surely we can beat Brentford with that.
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Let's look at the positive.
Checked the last four seasons an average of 73 points is enough to get you in the top 6. More importantly teams in those four play off places have also tended to have lost between 8 and 12 games. We have only lost two so far. But fair to say we need to start winning soon. I also think the play off points threshold maybe slightly lower this season considering how quickly teams' unbeaten runs went.
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I'm not putting much hope on automatic promotion though.
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No - but I never was. Not after last season
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Depends what Dr Tony wants though. What's certain is he isn't spending 40-50m every season just to stay in the championship.
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No - I reckon he'd take two years if needed. We should be giving it a proper go with this squad though, even if 'just' a play off place
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Once we gel we'll go on a good strong run. I'm pretty confident.
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We do need time to gel and there are player's to come back as well
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We're getting there. Play to this standard with a bit more cutting edge and we'll win a lot of games.
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If we carry on playing like this sooner or later someone's going to get an absolute twatting. Our finishing was diabolical today and we still scored two and hit the woodwork twice.
We still need a midfielder willing and able to get stuck in (the run to create their second goal wouldn't have happened if Jedinak had been on the pitch) and the defence still need to gel, but with a bit of shooting practice and/or luck our attack is going to score shit loads in this division.