Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: andyh on May 28, 2016, 08:03:45 AM
-
So, a new broom will soon start to sweep away at the club.
What will the new manager do about the players he is going to inherit?
In my opinion, they fall into 4 categories (not including the breakthrough kids or loanees).
1. Toxic - get rid at all costs.
Agbonlahor, Guzan, Richards, N'zogbia
2. Not good enough - get rid.
Cissokho, Richardson, Bacuna, Sinclair, Kozak (reluctantly)
3. Not bothered either way - a new manager may get the best out if them, he may get rid, but I really don't care.
Bunn, Lescott, Westwood, Gana, Vertoute, Hutton, okore, Sanchez
4. Definately keep, I'd be disappointed to lose any of these.
Amavi, Grealish, Ayew, Gestede,Clark, traore
Anyone agree?
Edited to add okore and Kozak - how could I possibly have forgotten them?
-
I'd put Lescott in the toxic camp and Gana in the definitely keep.Okore seems to want out so not bothered either way Other than that, about right.
-
So, a new broom will soon start to sweep away at the club.
What will the new manager do about the players he is going to inherit?
In my opinion, they fall into 4 categories (not including the breakthrough kids or loanees).
1. Toxic - get rid at all costs.
Agbonlahor, Guzan, Richards, N'zogbia
2. Not good enough - get rid.
Cissokho, Richardson, Bacuna, Sinclair
3. Not bothered either way - a new manager may get the best out if them, he may get rid, but I really don't care.
Bunn, Lescott, Westwood, Gana, Vertoute, Hutton
4. Definately keep, I'd be disappointed to lose any of these.
Amavi, Grealish, Ayew, Gestede,Clark
Anyone agree?
More or less.
For me:
Have to go: Gabby, Richards, Lescott, N'Zogbia
Should go: Guzan, Bacuna, Sinclair, Richardson, Hutton, Sanchez, Bunn, Cissokho, Crespo
Not bothered - Okore, Clark, Westwood, Kozak, Gil, Baker, Bennett. Gestede
Should keep if possible: Gana, Veretout, Ayew, Traore, Amavi, Gardner, Lyden, Toner, Grealish, Steer, Robinson, Hepburn-Murphy
-
Agree, Lescott in the toxic camp, Okore in the maybe keep and Traore a keep at all costs for me.
-
All the forgoing is logical but I fear the reality may be very different.
The wasters and malingerers will turn up to meet the new manager, booted and suited, looking as though butter would not melt in their mouths and the new, easy going manager will lean towards forgiveness based on not having seen close up and first hand the dressing room horror show that was last season. The lower demands of the Championship would probably make players like Lescott look adequate and early wins could make the new manager's softly softly approach seem to be working. Only when player power flares up again as it inevitably will would the price have to be paid for not being ruthless when we should have been, this summer.
In short RDM looks like he does not do broom work.
-
Doesn't N'Zogbia go in one month, 4 days, 14 hours and 44 minutes anyway?
-
Yes, and I have this recurring dream that Mr N'Zogbia on his way to his new club gets kidnapped by Somali pirates and forced to pay a £25 million ransom.
-
It's a hard one really because with the exception of a few they could all probably cope with the Championship.
Sell because they probably can't: Vertout, Gil, Traore, bacuna
Keepers
1 new keeper
One of Bunn/Guzan as back-up
Defenders
2 new defenders
clark, Baker, Hutton cissoko. amavi . Keep 1 off Okare/Richards/Lescott. as back-up
2 new midfielders
grealish/sinclair/westwood/sanchez/gardner/gana to fight it out with kids for the remainling places with 3 off them sold
2 new strikers
back-up /ayew/gestade/gabby to battle it out. 2 off them sold
I make that 7 new players and 11 out
-
In: a few hard players, couple of bubbly characters, two tall players and some fast ones.
Out: troublemakers
-
I think it's important that everyone knows exactly where they stand. The new manager should sit down with the players individually and tell them either:
1. We are prepared to let you go for £xxx, your agent can seek a new club for you.
Or
2. We want to keep you but if you want to leave, put in a written transfer request by 20 June so we can move you on and seek a replacement before pre season training starts.
Ok, I'm over simplifying the situation a tad but if they want to go, let it happen sooner rather than later. I don't want to lose a player on the eve of the season that we've been planning to keep. Those who wish to leave can train separately as they don't need to be part of any tactical sessions, set play routines etc. Plus they would be a negative influence on the group in my opinion.
That said, Guzan, Richards, Lescott and Agbonlahor have to go by any means necessary. Richardson and N'Zogbia are out of contract anyway so the above really applies to the rest of the squad.
-
In: a few hard players, couple of bubbly characters, two tall players and some fast ones.
Out: troublemakers
Ron 'Chopper' Seal
Ron 'Aero' Seal
Ron 'Flagpole' Seal
& Ron 'Usain' Seal
-
Need someone steady and predictable as well - Ron 'Does what it says on the tin' Seal
-
As long as we don't end up with Ron 'I'm not playing in the rain, it will ruin my hair' Seal
-
So, a new broom will soon start to sweep away at the club.
What will the new manager do about the players he is going to inherit?
In my opinion, they fall into 4 categories (not including the breakthrough kids or loanees).
1. Toxic - get rid at all costs.
Agbonlahor, Guzan, Richards, N'zogbia
2. Not good enough - get rid.
Cissokho, Richardson, Bacuna, Sinclair
3. Not bothered either way - a new manager may get the best out if them, he may get rid, but I really don't care.
Bunn, Lescott, Westwood, Gana, Vertoute, Hutton
4. Definately keep, I'd be disappointed to lose any of these.
Amavi, Grealish, Ayew, Gestede,Clark
Anyone agree?
More or less.
For me:
Have to go: Gabby, Richards, Lescott, N'Zogbia
Should go: Guzan, Bacuna, Sinclair, Richardson, Hutton, Sanchez, Bunn, Cissokho, Crespo
Not bothered - Okore, Clark, Westwood, Kozak, Gil, Baker, Bennett. Gestede
Should keep if possible: Gana, Veretout, Ayew, Traore, Amavi, Gardner, Lyden, Toner, Grealish, Steer, Robinson, Hepburn-Murphy
Would generally go with that except Sanchez to 'not bothered' and Okore/Clark to 'kepp if possible'.
However, a lot will depend on our ambitions in the transfer market.
-
I'd keep the keepers, one bad season does not make Guzan a bad player, and I think Bunn has a decent future, and at Championship level at least should be fairly consistent.
Trouble is the few class attacking players we have are likely to get offers from elsewhere, and if the right one comes out won't want to stick around. Not to mention that the club might want them off the wage bill.
I actually quite like Sinclair and think that he might fit the Championship quite well.
-
I'd keep the keepers, one bad season does not make Guzan a bad player, and I think Bunn has a decent future, and at Championship level at least should be fairly consistent.
Trouble is the few class attacking players we have are likely to get offers from elsewhere, and if the right one comes out won't want to stick around. Not to mention that the club might want them off the wage bill.
I actually quite like Sinclair and think that he might fit the Championship quite well.
In all his time here (in two spells), I think he has only had 2 good seasons and was starting to lose it a bit at the end of the 2nd of those 2 seasons.
-
I'd keep Sinclair as well.
-
Me too. Sinclair used right in an attacking team will score a lot of goals in the championship.
Gil Grealish and Traore week all have their uses. As well Vertout and Gestede. For me a couple of battling midfielders, a couple of pacy strikers a hard centre half and a keeper. Sign that lot and we will be up. The rest will improve around a stronger spine. Traore could be the real ace in the hole if he stays.
-
Me too. Sinclair used right in an attacking team will score a lot of goals in the championship.
Gil Grealish and Traore week all have their uses. As well Vertout and Gestede. For me a couple of battling midfielders, a couple of pacy strikers a hard centre half and a keeper. Sign that lot and we will be up. The rest will improve around a stronger spine. Traore could be the real ace in the hole if he stays.
In the hole you say? Cue McCarthy video clip.........
-
I think we're just such a basket case of a club right now it's a really hard environment for any player to thrive and do well. Given that, I think there are a lot of question marks over a big chunk of the squad.
Will they improve with a better manager and hopefully better players around them? Have they got the appetite for a promotion push or are they big time Charlie's that see the Championship as beneath them? On a few we know these answers, but a lot of last years signings really haven't had a chance to shine with everything else going on around them.
I think we've got to put some trust in the new manager and let him weigh these things up and then make the decisions. And the club then has to back him. For instance, I said above I'd keep Sinclair, but if the new manager thinks not, then I won't be moaning.
-
All the forgoing is logical but I fear the reality may be very different.
The wasters and malingerers will turn up to meet the new manager, booted and suited, looking as though butter would not melt in their mouths and the new, easy going manager will lean towards forgiveness based on not having seen close up and first hand the dressing room horror show that was last season. The lower demands of the Championship would probably make players like Lescott look adequate and early wins could make the new manager's softly softly approach seem to be working. Only when player power flares up again as it inevitably will would the price have to be paid for not being ruthless when we should have been, this summer.
In short RDM looks like he does not do broom work.
Re RdM and brooms, I think it really depends on two things: who he has on his coaching staff, and the extent to which they suss out the malingerers; and, the time that he and his team have had to observe quietly in the background (perhaps with briefings from He Who Walks on Water).
I'm not presuming anything about the new manager, whoever he might be. However, they would be very removed from the game not to know what has been going on at VP; which means they would be a very poor candidate anyway.
-
I'd keep Sinclair as well.
Not for me. Lacks the passion and drive to make a meaningful difference in a game, despite his apparent skill.
-
It's a hard one really because with the exception of a few they could all probably cope with the Championship.
Sell because they probably can't: Vertout, Gil, Traore, bacuna
Keepers
1 new keeper
One of Bunn/Guzan as back-up
Defenders
2 new defenders
clark, Baker, Hutton cissoko. amavi . Keep 1 off Okare/Richards/Lescott. as back-up
2 new midfielders
grealish/sinclair/westwood/sanchez/gardner/gana to fight it out with kids for the remainling places with 3 off them sold
2 new strikers
back-up /ayew/gestade/gabby to battle it out. 2 off them sold
I make that 7 new players and 11 out
Guzan cost us around 10 points. No way he can stay. Gabby turns up after a 2 week ban for his bad behaviour and he's a fucking STONE overweight. These two must never play for the club again. NO WAY. As for the others it's all about opinions.
N'zogbia bye bye you utter waste of space. Only ones I'd be happy to keep either due to ability or the fact that they at least try : Amarvi,Westwood, Gana, Gestede, Baker, Clarke, Bunn, Hutton, Ayew, Grealish, plus any promising kids.
The rest I'm not too fussed about.
-
I'd keep the keepers, one bad season does not make Guzan a bad player, and I think Bunn has a decent future, and at Championship level at least should be fairly consistent.
Trouble is the few class attacking players we have are likely to get offers from elsewhere, and if the right one comes out won't want to stick around. Not to mention that the club might want them off the wage bill.
I actually quite like Sinclair and think that he might fit the Championship quite well.
Guzan has had it. His demise started 2 seasons ago with his bizarre performance at Man City when he gifted
Aguero a goal. Sherwood knew he was finished and played Given after that. The fact that Guzan was still here at the start of last season said it all. He blundered time after time and was one of the reasons for our shocking season.
Sorry but he has GOT to go.
-
keep gana, ayew, amavi and our own youngsters and the rest can fuck off
as for bunn, he is a league one keeper as the bulk of his career shows.
i wouldnt even have him putting cones out
for us to move on we have to stop being a benevolent home to players who are obviously not up to it
-
I'd keep the keepers, one bad season does not make Guzan a bad player, and I think Bunn has a decent future, and at Championship level at least should be fairly consistent.
Trouble is the few class attacking players we have are likely to get offers from elsewhere, and if the right one comes out won't want to stick around. Not to mention that the club might want them off the wage bill.
I actually quite like Sinclair and think that he might fit the Championship quite well.
In all his time here (in two spells), I think he has only had 2 good seasons and was starting to lose it a bit at the end of the 2nd of those 2 seasons.
To be fair along with Benteke's goals Guzan's heroics in goal has been a big reason why we didn't go down sooner. I wouldn't start him at the moment, but I'd still have him in the squad.
-
I'd keep the keepers, one bad season does not make Guzan a bad player, and I think Bunn has a decent future, and at Championship level at least should be fairly consistent.
Trouble is the few class attacking players we have are likely to get offers from elsewhere, and if the right one comes out won't want to stick around. Not to mention that the club might want them off the wage bill.
I actually quite like Sinclair and think that he might fit the Championship quite well.
In all his time here (in two spells), I think he has only had 2 good seasons and was starting to lose it a bit at the end of the 2nd of those 2 seasons.
To be fair along with Benteke's goals Guzan's heroics in goal has been a big reason why we didn't go down sooner. I wouldn't start him at the moment, but I'd still have him in the squad.
Regardless of how he is playing, we cannot afford to have a keeper on his wages as a reserve. We have to be looking very carefully at what we are spending now and get best value out of every penny.
-
For absolute definite the following need to leave:
Lescott, Richards, Guzan and Gabby.
I would also add that given their agents seem keen to push a move already, we should move Gana and Okore on.
Essential areas that need strengthening:
A new keeper. I think Steer and Bunn are fine as backup but we need a new first choice. Someone solid and reliable who is good enough to make the step up if/when we get promoted.
New CH. Someone commanding and experienced. It may not be someone you'd necessarily think of as a world beater. Ideally someone akin to Morgan who is solid and reliable and if called upon can step up another level.
New fullbacks. I really hope Amavi stays but it's unlikely. Two reliable full backs are required. Bennett is fine as a back up, as is Hutton.
CM. Experience required. Gardner can be an important player now. Westwood will be fine at this level. What we need is a physical presence and someone who is a born leader. We could also do with buying someone proven, and possibly with goals in them. Judge?
AM. Osman. We have plenty of young talent who can play advanced or wide. Hopefully we keep Traore and give him games. I think Osman could be a great signing. Reliable. Good attitude. Works hard and experienced. Has legs still and is probably getting to the stage where the Champ or lower end Prem beckons.
Striker: Add a goalscorer who is proven at that level. Wells, Bamford, McCormack, Ings. This is the area I suspect we'll need to break the bank. Along with Gestede and our promising youngsters (who must be given a chance), that should give us the firepower.
-
We might be lucky and get a goldfish off the rag-and-bone man for all bar three of them.
-
We need a Joey Barton type. Experienced, a leader, someone with a bit of bite - someone also to wind things up a bit. We've missed that for years in midfield.
-
I'd keep the keepers, one bad season does not make Guzan a bad player, and I think Bunn has a decent future, and at Championship level at least should be fairly consistent.
Trouble is the few class attacking players we have are likely to get offers from elsewhere, and if the right one comes out won't want to stick around. Not to mention that the club might want them off the wage bill.
I actually quite like Sinclair and think that he might fit the Championship quite well.
wtf - keep Guzan and Bunn :o
what is to like about Sinclair?
The guy is a one paced, gutless, no trick pony that with the exception of 2 seasons at Swansea has stolen a living as a footballer at multiple clubs.
Lets hope Rodgers takes him up to Glasgow.
-
No way would I keep Guzan. He's pathetic.
-
We need a new No 1, but I'd be happy enough with Bunn and Steer as the backups.
-
New club captain Stan Petrov. Looks in absolutely superb shape in new pictures.
-
Guzan needs a move as much for his own good as ours. Bunn doesn't look good enough, no idea about Steer.
-
Guzan needs a move as much for his own good as ours. Bunn doesn't look good enough, no idea about Steer.
I'd agree with the first two points.
I skimmed a couple of Huddersfield forums a couple of weeks ago. Some love him, some hate him, most described him as steady. Doesn't throw too many points away, but doesn't win too many extra with a how did he do that kind of save when you're hanging on.
Sounds like perfect second choice if he's happy with that role.
-
I think our midfielders will generally do well at that level and I'd keep most of them except maybe Westwood who seemed to be part of the poison clique, and maybe Bacuna just for being a neither footed jack of no trades, and a twat to boot.
I think our forwards will all do ok at champo level except Gabby who can fuck right off.
It's our defence that needs a complete clearout. Guzan is shite and poison, Bunn is not good enough to be first choice.
The only defenders I rate at all are Amavi and Okore, and Lescott might be ok at that level but again is in the poison clique. I know it's all about opinions but when are people going to realise how shockingly mediocre (at best) Clark is? If we can get 5m for him I'll give him a piggy back to the mugs who sign him. And how Hutton has somehow managed to fool people into thinking he at least cares and tries is beyond me.
At least first choices at CB, RB and GK is a must to get in for me, plus some backup that actually gives a shit.
But really we need some leadership on the pitch as well as off.
-
Paul e and Newby on the Okore thread has been discussion how many changes this summer and the need for replacements. I think it is a good point re release clauses, and being powerless to stop players leaving.
As such any re-shaping will entirely come down to who we can convince to stay, and who we can't shift.
In an ideal world we have:
Guzan, Bunn, Steer - ideally we will lose Guzan and gain a new number 1 - 1 addition.
RB: Hutton - Realistically only Hutton is a real right back - add 1 (2 additions)
LB: Cissokho, Bennett, Amavi - if we can, sell Cissokho and keep the other 2 IMO. - (still 2 additions)
CB: Lescott (go), Richards (go), Clark (likely to go), Okore (likely to go), Toner (stay), Baker (stay) (minimum need 2 centre halves up to 4 additions)
CM: Westwood (stay), Gana (likely go), Veretout (hopefully stay), Gardner (stay), Bacuna (please go!), Sanchez (might stay) - (possibly need 2 - up to 6 in)
Wide players: Traore (hopefully stay), Grealish (stay), Greeen (stay) Gil (stay) - (need 1 more with pace IMO - 7 additions)
Up top: Gestede (stay), Gabby (no takers sadly), Ayew (will go), Kozak (stay probably) - (2 strikers would be ideal to supplement Gestede - 9 additions)
So even with some, like Gil, Veretout, Traore and Amavi being held onto, we will still need a big influx to have enough of a squad to cope with 46 games, plus cup, plus play off potentially. We will need to have 3-4 very decent loan options.
-
Go: Gabby, Bacuna, Richards, Lescott, Guzan. As an absolute minimum we need to get rid of these players, by hook or by crook. Of a couple I am undecided on as to whether they should be in this category- Okore. Could be an excellent centre back for us, but I question his commitment after trying to force a move. We need 100% commitment. If a good bid came in I'd take it. If not he's worth monitoring pre-season. Sinclair. Had some absolute shockers, but might be OK in the Championship. Cissokho. Ditto.
Keep: Gestede, Traore, Gardner, Ayew, Grealish, Hutton, Sanchez, Gana, Amavi, clark, Toner, Hepburn-murphy.
The rest: not nothered if they stay or go. Not sure how feasible this is, but after getting rid of the must-go and want away players, I'd have the remaining academy, U21's and squad players in trials with the 'keeps' for a few weeks and then identify where new signings are required. If the takeover goes to shit and we only sign one new player, it has to be a solid goalkeeper.
The most important money we'll spend this summer is getting rid of the 'gos'. Only when the toxic players have been shifted by sale or more likely, paying them off, can we begin the Renaissance. Aside from that and bringing in a quality keeper, I wouldn't think we'd need to spend a fortune on bringing in new players to be competitive next season. I'm almost thinking now it might be better to target the season after next to storm the league- use next season to find our feet and build a solid squad. Then go shit or bust the following season and hit the premiership with a bit of momentum and an experienced, decent squad. I know this contradicts things I've said previously about how we have to get back first time etc. but I'm coming round to the idea of a season of consolidation, followed by a huge surge the season after. Just think it might be more sustainable.
-
New club captain Stan Petrov. Looks in absolutely superb shape in new pictures.
I'd ruddy love that. It's still the stuff of fairy tales were it to happen but this is the year of Leicester City, so we'll see. I'd certainly be sending Stan round to offer some dietary tips to Gabby.
-
Our Stan looking brilliant. Whether or not he comes back, it's outstanding to see him in this shape and health
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cjioh6xWYAAM2IU.jpg)
-
I'd never have thought that Stan and Gabbby would go on holiday together.
-
My advice to the incoming manager regarding squad reshaping would be to use the biggest, heaviest mallet they can wield.
-
How is the young goalkeeper we signed last year going ? Matija Sarkic from Belgian club Anderlecht. Could he be our new goalkeeper ?
-
he is 19 now I think
-
Not sure but, I think it was him that dislocated his shoulder in the Hong Kong seven-a-side tournament last week.
-
Not sure but, I think it was him that dislocated his shoulder in the Hong Kong seven-a-side tournament last week.
Yep, looked good in the bits that I saw before that.