Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: four fornicholl on January 07, 2016, 11:29:55 PM
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his premiership world,what a lovely watch(ss1)
I liked him and he liked us
DONE
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I love Sir Graham and would have him on the board any day of the week.
I also love capital letters on names and thread titles!
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youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxvyXQzNehU)
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I was only a kid when he took over but that first season, his and mine stuck with me forever. As I got older I realised what a job he did at the Villa, a bloke with genuine class and genuine love for us.
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Is it just me or does Graham not look too well these days?
Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
How we could do with someone like him at the club now
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I always thought he looked a bit like Frank Sidebottom when he managed us.
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Does he talk about his first spell at villa?
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I always think of his first spell as a case of 'what if' and how far he could have taken us had he not got the England job. In McGrath, Platt, Cowans (albeit he had already been at the club) and Yorke, he probably made the four best buys in my time supporting the club.
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Thanks for posting.
An interesting programme about him as it ignored arguably his best achievements in his 1st spell with us. Always a man I've enjoyed listening too.
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Is it just me or does Graham not look too well these days?
Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
How we could do with someone like him at the club now
I know he had a fall about a year or so ago (fell down stairs and broke his arm I think), so perhaps he hasn't fully recovered from that yet?
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Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
Ain't that the truth. To be honest I didn't blame him for quitting second time around. It was a few weeks after he'd been booed at the end of our final home game when he tried to address the Holte. As far as standards had slipped at that point he should have been cut more slack by the support given his history.
We'd also just secured survival. What we'd give for that now.
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Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
Ain't that the truth. To be honest I didn't blame him for quitting second time around. It was a few weeks after he'd been booed at the end of our final home game when he tried to address the Holte. As far as standards had slipped at that point he should have been cut more slack by the support given his history.
We'd also just secured survival. What we'd give for that now.
We also won 11 games at home, how many seasons dose have to count back to get that total?
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We also won 11 games at home, how many seasons dose have to count back to get that total?
That was the last time we managed it I think. Most home wins under MON was nine I think. As for the others, not even close to that with the possible exception of D'Ohleary.
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Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
Ain't that the truth. To be honest I didn't blame him for quitting second time around. It was a few weeks after he'd been booed at the end of our final home game when he tried to address the Holte. As far as standards had slipped at that point he should have been cut more slack by the support given his history.
We'd also just secured survival. What we'd give for that now.
We also won 11 games at home, how many seasons dose have to count back to get that total?
He was way past his best though being honest. The game had changed - he also had the misfortune to have his second spell coincide when Blues got their act together (of sorts) for the first time in a quarter of a century+.
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I'll have a watch of that later. Probably my favourite Villa manager. The treatment he got when he was England manager was shameful.
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I'll have a watch of that later. Probably my favourite Villa manager. The treatment he got when he was England manager was shameful.
It was nothing short of disgusting in the way Graham Taylor was portrayed and ridiculed by the media.
Shameful bunch of bastards.
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I do miss him.
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I'd love him back at the club but it wouldn't be nice to dump another shambles on him and ask him to sort it out.
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You'll never get a more honest and down to earth man, if you look back at those England games with Holland, so many disgraceful decisions went against us, clear cut decisions, and he was haranged over it. He wasn't the best England manager, but he sure wasn't the worst.
Strange that in this programme there is absolutely nothing about the successful seasons at Villa, yet it covered every other spell of management in his life. That's a shame as I was looking forward to seeing the lanky twins Olney and Ormondroyd, with Chrissie Price and Derek Mountfield strutting their stuff.
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The channel it was on explains why there was nothing from 1987-90.
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You'll never get a more honest and down to earth man, if you look back at those England games with Holland, so many disgraceful decisions went against us, clear cut decisions, and he was haranged over it. He wasn't the best England manager, but he sure wasn't the worst.
Strange that in this programme there is absolutely nothing about the successful seasons at Villa, yet it covered every other spell of management in his life. That's a shame as I was looking forward to seeing the lanky twins Olney and Ormondroyd, with Chrissie Price and Derek Mountfield strutting their stuff.
He wasn't the worst - Keegan and McLaren were much worse, and they had the luxury of knowing the mechanics of international football prior to being hired.
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As he said, "Nobody talks about what I did with Watford, or Villa, or Watford again, or the most successful start to the England job ever. All they remember is seven seconds against San Marino and that documentary."
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Surely it's "Sir" Graham?
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As he said, "Nobody talks about what I did with Watford, or Villa, or Watford again, or the most successful start to the England job ever. All they remember is seven seconds against San Marino and that documentary."
And no one ever remembers that Harry Rednapp took Saints down.
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As he said, "Nobody talks about what I did with Watford, or Villa, or Watford again, or the most successful start to the England job ever. All they remember is seven seconds against San Marino and that documentary."
And no one ever remembers that Harry Rednapp took Saints down.
Did he take Pompey down as well?
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Graham Taylor is one of only one, true, genuine top-flight football men that I can think of at this precise moment. I may think of others later but for now he's the only one.
IMO, despite not winning any silverware, SGT belongs up there with all our past great Villa men. Sometimes it's not about trophies, it's about overseeing an ailing football club and carrying out a root and branch cull to ensure the club stays alive and regenerates. This is what he did.
I never think about his spell as England manager or read anything about it. It proves conclusively to me that the majority of national sports journalists know fuck all about football so I never bother. To me, he's on a par with the great Ron Saunders, he poured life into a near terminal case. I would love to meet him.
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As he said, "Nobody talks about what I did with Watford, or Villa, or Watford again, or the most successful start to the England job ever. All they remember is seven seconds against San Marino and that documentary."
And no one ever remembers that Harry Rednapp took Saints down.
And QPR twice.
And also the reason he was sacked by West Ham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_West_Ham_United_F.C._season
in one of the most poor seasons in the history of the top flight.
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And no one ever remembers that Harry Rednapp took Saints down.
And QPR.
Edit, Rob beat me too it. Didn't know it was twice.
And yes, it should be "Sir Graham."
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The channel it was on explains why there was nothing from 1987-90.
Refer to Sky Sports and the rewriting of English topflight football history
Sir Graham is a legend and if you have ever spoken to him a really nice man too.
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I believe Sir Jack Hayward once said that one of his biggest regrets was sacking Sir Graham when he was at Wolves.
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You'll never get a more honest and down to earth man, if you look back at those England games with Holland, so many disgraceful decisions went against us, clear cut decisions, and he was haranged over it. He wasn't the best England manager, but he sure wasn't the worst.
Also had really bad luck with injuries during his time in charge with England. I remember being a teenager and seeing him in WH Smith when in town with a group of friends. It was just after he had left the England job and had been through all the bad treatment that came with that. After a bit of initial reticence we approached him and asked for his autograph, which he gave us along with a smile and "thanks lads".
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As he said, "Nobody talks about what I did with Watford, or Villa, or Watford again, or the most successful start to the England job ever. All they remember is seven seconds against San Marino and that documentary."
And no one ever remembers that Harry Rednapp took Saints down.
Did he take Pompey down as well?
Not sure he took them down, but he financially ruined them.
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Graham Taylor is one of only one, true, genuine top-flight football men that I can think of at this precise moment. I may think of others later but for now he's the only one.
IMO, despite not winning any silverware, SGT belongs up there with all our past great Villa men. Sometimes it's not about trophies, it's about overseeing an ailing football club and carrying out a root and branch cull to ensure the club stays alive and regenerates. This is what he did.
I never think about his spell as England manager or read anything about it. It proves conclusively to me that the majority of national sports journalists know fuck all about football so I never bother. To me, he's on a par with the great Ron Saunders, he poured life into a near terminal case. I would love to meet him.
I would put Ron Atkinson in that category as well, even though he blotted his copybook.
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The channel it was on explains why there was nothing from 1987-90.
Rather odd seeing as Sky Sports is run by one of the biggest Villa fans I've ever met.
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The channel it was on explains why there was nothing from 1987-90.
Rather odd seeing as Sky Sports is run by one of the biggest Villa fans I've ever met.
Can he tell Pete Colley and all the pundits to be a bit more knowledgeable when talking about us ?
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I remember posting this (http://www.football365.com/profile365/9776344/F365-Says) before, but worth posting again. Mainly focusing on Watford, but still a very nice tribute.
Graham Taylor: An Unfairly Tainted Reputation
In a game of Graham Taylor word association, the word 'turnip' will come up pretty quickly. That unfairly dismisses a lovely man, and brilliant manager...
Here's a piece of free advice; don't become England manager. Granted, that little piece of sage wisdom will not apply to most of you, but it's worth keeping in mind in case something improbable happens, or if you are a professional football manager. You might think you can do a decent job, but it will almost certainly not be decent enough.
For the England gig makes monkeys of the best men. Or, shall we say, it makes perceived monkeys of the best men. Bobby Robson was so sick of the way he was treated in the press that he binned it off before Italia 90, a successful tournament that, if Bobby wasn't such a lovely bloke, you would think was just one colossal 'f**k you' to the men from the papers. Steve McClaren became defined by an entirely sensible item of weather protection, Sven Goran Eriksson by Little Sven and Glenn Hoddle by some reprehensible views about karma and so forth. Even Fabio Capello, iron man of European football, couldn't be arsed by the whole thing in the end. It is, as the old documentary said, an impossible job.
The subject of said documentary is probably the worst example of the whole thing. Graham Taylor was, as you'll remember, reduced to a root vegetable on the front of the Sun after some admittedly abysmal showings in the World Cup qualifiers, his reaction to which was unfortunately captured on film for future generations to laugh at..
And, in fairness, watching a man who resembled a minor local councillor sidle up to a linesman to say "Tell your pal he's just cost me my job" was, on some levels, quite funny. The problem is that this sort of thing has a habit of taking over the common image of person, to throw their previous achievements onto a bonfire like it's some sort of schadenfreudean rewriting of history and become the predominant perception of them.
Because Taylor was, before being gobbled up by the dignity mincer that was and still is the England job, a seriously brilliant manager. His gig before being called to Lancaster Gate (ask your parents) was with Aston Villa, who he took from the Second Division to damn near winning the league in three seasons. But it is his time at Watford that should really define the man.
Taylor took over at Vicarage Road in 1977 when the Hornets were in the Fourth Division, having turned down top flight West Brom basically because they were rude in the manner they approached him. He told Elton John, who had recently become chairman of his boyhood club, that if he could get them to the First Division within ten years, that would represent success. He managed it in five.
And, once there, they implausibly finished second in their first season, only behind Bob Paisley's Liverpool, irritating all and sundry along the way with their rather direct style of play. The following years saw them reach the third round of the UEFA Cup, make the FA Cup final in 1984 and the semi-final a couple of years later.
Taylor found a club in a mess, who had been bottom of the entire Football League in the season before he arrived, had no training ground and had to share billing with a greyhound track that encircled the pitch, which he promptly got rid of. "It's either the dogs or me," he told John. In a decade he took them to Wembley, Europe and close to the league title, finally leaving them ninth in the top flight, some 66 places higher than when he arrived. You'll not find many people in Watford whose primary memory of Taylor is "Do I not like that."
As well as all this though, Taylor just seems like a lovely bloke. In Lionel Birnie's wonderful book 'Enjoy The Game', about Watford in the 1980s, there are countless stories that paint a picture of a kind, generous and generally just a sensationally pleasant human being.
One that stands out is the time the club's clapped-out Fiat Panda, used by the scouts to travel the country, finally gave in because someone forgot to put oil in the engine. Taylor called a staff meeting, at which the four scouts assumed they would be given a bill for the repair of the car, so they pre-emptively decided to split the £1,000 cost. They were handed four envelopes, but instead of invoices they contained plane tickets and reservations for a swanky hotel in Portugal. "This is just a thank you from the club for all your work," said Taylor. "Take a break, take your wives, and enjoy yourselves." Taylor even offered to look after their children for the week while they went away.
And there are so many more. After one rather chastening defeat, Taylor trained his players hard with double sessions for three days, before arriving to the training ground on the Thursday. "I was talking to Rita (his wife) last night," he told his team, "and she thought perhaps I was being a bit hard on you and I agreed. So, get yourselves changed into your tracksuits and meet me at the hotel for a Champagne breakfast on me." He threw in some jugs of lager to lighten the mood, too.
On another occasion, instead of a pre-season training session he took his players for a walk with their dogs before a pub lunch. When Watford sold Luther Blissett to AC Milan (a deal which involved a bloke who owned a local Italian restaurant as a go-between) for a then-hefty £1million in 1983, Taylor hugged the forward who'd been with him from the start and tears were shed. Paul Atkinson, a midfielder signed from Oldham, chose Watford over Nottingham Forest partly because Taylor knew all about his game and spent a long time explaining how he'd fit into his side, whereas Brian Clough gave him a drink and said Forest were "going to the Reeperbahn on our pre-season trip. You're not a poof lad, are you?"
We could go on, with any number of stories about his managerial skills and simple good eggery. But for now, before England play and we watch the latest poor whelp flail in the pitiless seas of the national job, just enjoy these, and remember that Taylor wasn't a punchline, and he certainly wasn't a turnip.
Nick Miller
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One of the tests I do, to see if who I'm talking to is worthy of discussing football with, is to mention Graham Taylor. If they say anything about turnips or "do I no like that", they're dead to me.
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I get them to say the name of the city where our ground is located. If they say the word Birmingham as though it is a place I continue to talk to them. If they say it like the punchline of an Aufwiedersehn Pet piss take I walk away.
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As he said, "Nobody talks about what I did with Watford, or Villa, or Watford again, or the most successful start to the England job ever. All they remember is seven seconds against San Marino and that documentary."
The bit that still stands out for me is not the "Do I not like that" or comment to the linesman, it was when he confronted that fan who was having a go at one of the players and said "That's another human being you are talking about". That said more about the man than anything else on that documentary.
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I get them to say the name of the city where our ground is located. If they say the word Birmingham as though it is a place I continue to talk to them. If they say it like the punchline of an Aufwiedersehn Pet piss take I walk away.
Not sure where you live Brian but one of my per hates is those from the London vicinity - Ian Wright included - who refer to the 2nd City as Burningham
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It's still Brummagem up our end.
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Its about time he brought his book out, great man
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He's too clever to take the job but I'd love him back here in some capacity.
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I remember in his first spell, a few Villa players frequented my local, one in particular (Oak n Ash in Walmley).
One day when I was in there at the same time as said player, in walks Sir Graham (obviously been tipped off). This player just stood up, left his pint and walked out the pub.
Sir Graham wasn't a man to mess with !
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I remember in his first spell, a few Villa players frequented my local, one in particular (Oak n Ash in Walmley).
One day when I was in there at the same time as said player, in walks Sir Graham (obviously been tipped off). This player just stood up, left his pint and walked out the pub.
Sir Graham wasn't a man to mess with !
Within a week of his arrival he'd found every pub they drank in and been to them all.
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I get them to say the name of the city where our ground is located. If they say the word Birmingham as though it is a place I continue to talk to them. If they say it like the punchline of an Aufwiedersehn Pet piss take I walk away.
Not sure where you live Brian but one of my per hates is those from the London vicinity - Ian Wright included - who refer to the 2nd City as Burningham
Or Birminum ala Alan Curbishley
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I get them to say the name of the city where our ground is located. If they say the word Birmingham as though it is a place I continue to talk to them. If they say it like the punchline of an Aufwiedersehn Pet piss take I walk away.
Not sure where you live Brian but one of my per hates is those from the London vicinity - Ian Wright included - who refer to the 2nd City as Burningham
my first Wifes family were all Londoners, I found they had a genuine problem trying to say Birmingham
I also love graham taylor
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In my supporting lifetime he is probably second only to Saunders in the managerial stakes - and even then I'd accept the argument that Taylor was the superior as Saunders didn't have to contend with taking over a club in free-fall at a time when football was a toxic brand. If only Bobby Robson had done another World Cup cycle... Inaugural winners of the Premier League and perhaps another Cup or two would have been a distinct possibility.
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I remember in his first spell, a few Villa players frequented my local, one in particular (Oak n Ash in Walmley).
One day when I was in there at the same time as said player, in walks Sir Graham (obviously been tipped off). This player just stood up, left his pint and walked out the pub.
Sir Graham wasn't a man to mess with !
Within a week of his arrival he'd found every pub they drank in and been to them all.
That's one of my favourite anecdotes.
Could get you a lot of 'likes' if you had a button 😉
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Thanks to Dave for posting those lovely stories about GT's time at Watford. They fit in totally with what Paul McGrath says in "Back from the Brink" about how GT did everything he possibly could to look out for him. A genuinely good guy and a great, great manager. I'll never forget what he did for us in 1987-1990.
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That whiskey faced Scotsman could've won twice the number of trophies and he still wouldn't get anywhere near what Graham Taylor is.
A gentleman.
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Just watched it now. Really sad they didn't cover his first spell with us, as they covered Watford, Lincoln and Grimsby as well.
Looking back, I think the two Blues games were what really did for Graham in his second spell. Our home form was very good that season and he definitely brought more out of the likes of Barry and Hitzlsperger, but the derby results and our poor away form held us back.
I guess I have an affinity for him because he was the first Villa boss I can remember and he clearly knew how to organise a club and held strong family values. Such a great "what if" story, considering where he left us in 1990.
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Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
Ain't that the truth. To be honest I didn't blame him for quitting second time around. It was a few weeks after he'd been booed at the end of our final home game when he tried to address the Holte. As far as standards had slipped at that point he should have been cut more slack by the support given his history.
We'd also just secured survival. What we'd give for that now.
I've often wondered if how much of that booing was aimed at him and how much aimed at the "fans" who were booing.
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Did so much for us in the late 80's and didn't deserve the abuse he got when he came back.
Ain't that the truth. To be honest I didn't blame him for quitting second time around. It was a few weeks after he'd been booed at the end of our final home game when he tried to address the Holte. As far as standards had slipped at that point he should have been cut more slack by the support given his history.
We'd also just secured survival. What we'd give for that now.
I've often wondered if how much of that booing was aimed at him and how much aimed at the "fans" who were booing.
What I remember is he said on the mic something like "we all know its been an awful season" but then he was drowned out by the boos. He then turned and walked off. Some were appluding him, but many were not.
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Seems like a great guy but was an awful international manager. Took over a side that got to the semis in WC 1990 and left behind a rabble.
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Seems like a great guy but was an awful international manager. Took over a side that got to the semis in WC 1990 and left behind a rabble.
He did but as he said previously it should have been his last job not a job he took halfway through his career.
He didn't know that Gazza was going to turn up pissed at Landsdowne Road then get crocked a couple of months later, Shearer having broken into the team get a horrendous injury and Merson going awol. Mark Wright being injured and Des Walker losing all sense of form in 1992. Oh and Woods and Seaman being brilliant for their clubs then playing like Guzan 2015 also didn't help.
As for whatifs I think we would have been a very good top 4-5 club for his duration (say another 2-3 years) and maybe left it for BFR or Little to kick on to the next level.
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I agree with top deck. There is a very strong argument to claim that graham Taylor is the best manager we've had including Ron saunders
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I have lived on the outskirts of Lincoln for a couple of decades now (I work in Scarborough) and Imps fans hold SGT in the highest regard. An electrician who has helped me out a few times used to do jobs for the Taylors and tells me a more genuine and lovely man you couldn't meet. A validation of what we already know I guess but added to the miraculous job he did for us and the wonderful memories he created really cements his place in my affections. Christ, that sounds like an epitaph which I dearly hope won't be neccesary for many years.
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Seems like a great guy but was an awful international manager. Took over a side that got to the semis in WC 1990 and left behind a rabble.
That overlooks the fact that the 1990 World Cup squad was filled with players who were on their way out or down. Shilton and Butcher had retired and Beardsley, Waddle, Lineker (to name just three) were all in their thirties for Taylor's reign. The one genuine star he could have built his side around for years was Gazza, and he got himself crocked in the 91 cup final. It's not as if Taylor ripped a great team apart, whoever had succeeded Bobby Robson would have had a major rebuilding job. Also, let us not pretend that the 1990 team was a great one. Aside from the semi-final their performances were pretty bloody awful.
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Seems like a great guy but was an awful international manager. Took over a side that got to the semis in WC 1990 and left behind a rabble.
That overlooks the fact that the 1990 World Cup squad was filled with players who were on their way out or down. Shilton and Butcher had retired and Beardsley, Waddle, Lineker (to name just three) were all in their thirties for Taylor's reign. The one genuine star he could have built his side around for years was Gazza, and he got himself crocked in the 91 cup final. It's not as if Taylor ripped a great team apart, whoever had succeeded Bobby Robson would have had a major rebuilding job. Also, let us not pretend that the 1990 team was a great one. Aside from the semi-final their performances were pretty bloody awful.
We had the oldest squad in the tournament.
Leaving Waddle out in favour of Barnes was his one major avoidable mistake.
1990 had lots of good players, I still argue the performances v Holland and Belgium were also good.
v Ireland crappy local derby slog fest
v African teams average but more experience to outlast them. Just.
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In a ddition to the above, it's often overlooked that Sir Graham's England team had little experience of playing abroad due to the European ban.
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In a ddition to the above, it's often overlooked that Sir Graham's England team had little experience of playing abroad due to the European ban.
Yes and not using Waddle was the one thing I'd pull him up on because he was playing well for an excellent contintal team that were a cut above our domestic offering at the time, partly because of said ban.
Butcher Shilton and Robson were past their best and deserved to be encouraged to finish off, Waddle was the other senior player along with Lineker who certainly wasn't.
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Butcher Shilton and Robson were past their best and deserved to be encouraged to finish off, Waddle was the other senior player along with Lineker who certainly wasn't.
To be fair, Shilton was 41(?) when he retired at Italia 90. Can't keep pushing time backwards.
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Seems like a great guy but was an awful international manager. Took over a side that got to the semis in WC 1990 and left behind a rabble.
That overlooks the fact that the 1990 World Cup squad was filled with players who were on their way out or down. Shilton and Butcher had retired and Beardsley, Waddle, Lineker (to name just three) were all in their thirties for Taylor's reign. The one genuine star he could have built his side around for years was Gazza, and he got himself crocked in the 91 cup final. It's not as if Taylor ripped a great team apart, whoever had succeeded Bobby Robson would have had a major rebuilding job. Also, let us not pretend that the 1990 team was a great one. Aside from the semi-final their performances were pretty bloody awful.
We had the oldest squad in the tournament.
Leaving Waddle out in favour of Barnes was his one major avoidable mistake.
1990 had lots of good players, I still argue the performances v Holland and Belgium were also good.
v Ireland crappy local derby slog fest
v African teams average but more experience to outlast them. Just.
Belgium? The one with Scifo? Where our best player was W. Oodwork? That Belgium?
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Enzo Scifo! That's a name I haven't heard for years. What a player he was.
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Didn't he lose the spine of his squad in the WC qualifiers, Tony Adams got done for Drink Driving, Gazza broke his leg and Shearer was out with an Achilles injury.
This plus the changing of the guard following WC 90 and he had a very tough job on his hands.
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One of my favourite periods as a Villa fan was his first stint at VP.
He gets a lot of deserved credit for unearthing the gem that was Dwight Yorke, but hadn't he done something similar with John Barnes when he was the manager of Watford in the early 80's?
Pretty sure he was manager there at the time Barnes joined, so presumably Taylor would have at least had a hand in his signing. Maybe someone more knowledgable could confirm?
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One of my favourite periods as a Villa fan was his first stint at VP.
He gets a lot of deserved credit for unearthing the gem that was Dwight Yorke, but hadn't he done something similar with John Barnes when he was the manager of Watford in the early 80's?
Pretty sure he was manager there at the time Barnes joined, so presumably Taylor would have at least had a hand in his signing. Maybe someone more knowledgable could confirm?
Thats correct. I understand why he chose Barnes over Waddle having signed him as a teenager etc... Just themwrong decision as Barnes started picking up injuries and putting on weight
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This thread is a lovely read. More anecdotes please!
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One of my favourite periods as a Villa fan was his first stint at VP.
He gets a lot of deserved credit for unearthing the gem that was Dwight Yorke, but hadn't he done something similar with John Barnes when he was the manager of Watford in the early 80's?
Pretty sure he was manager there at the time Barnes joined, so presumably Taylor would have at least had a hand in his signing. Maybe someone more knowledgable could confirm?
If I recall correctly, Graham Taylor was tipped off by Barnes by a taxi driver. He was playing amateur football at the time and was signed for a set of kit.
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I understand that he wanted to take the England job, but one of the greatest 'if onlys' for me if he'd stayed for the 90-91 season after finishing 2nd in the league.
Just think about it. 2nd in the top flight in 1990, when we look destined for the 3rd division only 3 years earlier.
The man is an absolute legend.
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Didn't he lose the spine of his squad in the WC qualifiers, Tony Adams got done for Drink Driving, Gazza broke his leg and Shearer was out with an Achilles injury.
This plus the changing of the guard following WC 90 and he had a very tough job on his hands.
It was also a time when the likes of Steve Bruce didnt even get a cap due to the choices available
look at the forwards available even with Shearer out - Ferdinand, Wright, Beardsley, Sheringham
choice as keeper - Seaman, Woods, Martyn - thats very strong
every manager makes bizarre selection decisions but I seem to remember him keeping faith with Des Walker when his form was totally gone
Andy Sinton, Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Nigel Clough in the squad while leaving out Waddle and Beardsley
super manager at Watford and Villa but that was far from a poor group of English players he had
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His skills were all about working with players day-in, day-out - as well as managing every aspect of the football side of the club. That daily contact with players was one of the reasons that he was, amongst other things, able to resurrect McGrath's career and convert Ormondroyd into the most unlikely of wingers. The England set-up doesn't allow for that. I remember him saying when he toot over the job that he wanted to take coaching sessions at the clubs in order to work with current or potential internationals on a more regular basis. Needless to say the clubs ensured that their vested interests weren't compromised on that one.
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He was also against the Premier League as despite the supposed help it would give the England team (that worked well) he knew it would weaken the other 70 clubs.
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I understand that he wanted to take the England job, but one of the greatest 'if onlys' for me if he'd stayed for the 90-91 season after finishing 2nd in the league.
Personally I think that side was punching above its weight a wee bit and would have dipped again even under GT. McGrath, Cowans and Platt were all top class. Players like Chris Price (much as I liked him) Mountfield, Neilson, Sticks Ormondroyd and Tony Cantscorino don't belong in that bracket. The latter two struggled to even control a football most of the time.
And if GT had stayed we probably wouldn't have had the BFR years, so it worked out well in the end.
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I understand that he wanted to take the England job, but one of the greatest 'if onlys' for me if he'd stayed for the 90-91 season after finishing 2nd in the league.
Personally I think that side was punching above its weight a wee bit and would have dipped again even under GT. McGrath, Cowans and Platt were all top class. Players like Chris Price (much as I liked him) Mountfield, Neilson, Sticks Ormondroyd and Tony Cantscorino don't belong in that bracket. The latter two struggled to even control a football most of the time.
And if GT had stayed we probably wouldn't have had the BFR years, so it worked out well in the end.
Look at that team's record against the teams immediately below them and tell me which ones were better. I'd take winning the league (which I'm still convinced we would have by 1992 over anything Ron did.
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I always get a bit annoyed when fans slag off Ormandroyd. Clumsy he was but when he was played out wide in '89/'90 he was bloody brilliant.
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I always get a bit annoyed when fans slag off Ormandroyd. Clumsy he was but when he was played out wide in '89/'90 he was bloody brilliant.
Before we played them in the cup that season a couple of Stripeys asked about our team. I saw he was doing well, they started laughing, I pointed to the league tables.
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I always get a bit annoyed when fans slag off Ormandroyd. Clumsy he was but when he was played out wide in '89/'90 he was bloody brilliant.
And he was good at cricket so there.
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I always thought Ormondroyd was quite skillful for a bloke of his size and build. I liked him.
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I always thought Ormondroyd was quite skillful for a bloke of his size and build. I liked him.
And he scored some cracking goals as well.
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
Coventry at home in front of the Holte. Great run by Tony Daley and it came to him and he smashed it in the top corner. Also had a family named after him in the film "Brassed Off".
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
Was that the volley?
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
Coventry at home in front of the Holte. Great run by Tony Daley and it came to him and he smashed it in the top corner. Also had a family named after him in the film "Brassed Off".
'
Christ, Tony Daley. Scored some of the best goals I've ever seen at Villa. Loved him!
'Slow trigger"
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
Was that the volley?
Just under 6 mins in, don't watch the game after it though!
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
Was that the volley?
Yup. Stood on the Shelf with Spurs fans wishing us well.
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I was at that game!
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
Yep, I was there that night to
'We are top of the league, we are top of the league'
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Yeah it was a midweek game and it was all about Gazza this Gazza that, but of course Platt outshone him.
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I was at that game!
Not in the Shelf after blagging in for nothing though.
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Top of the league for the first time since '81, 7 league wins on the bounce for the first time since '81, the omens were all there. And then along come sodding Wimbledon to VP.
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I was at that game!
Not in the Shelf after blagging in for nothing though.
I wouldn't have had the nerve!
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I actually thought we should have won the league that year even more so than 92/93. Love every minute of that season, and I remember feeling gutted but proud that Taylor was taking over the England job.
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I was at that game!
Not in the Shelf after blagging in for nothing though.
I wouldn't have had the nerve!
Our bit was sold out. That was a weird season - it was like some armstice had happened and opposition fans were okay with each other. I stood on the Kop when some old Scousers had somebody thrown out for having a go at us and the Trent End with about fifty of us in the corner going mad when we scored.
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I was at that game!
Not in the Shelf after blagging in for nothing though.
I wouldn't have had the nerve!
Our bit was sold out. That was a weird season - it was like some armstice had happened and opposition fans were okay with each other. I stood on the Kop when some old Scousers had somebody thrown out for having a go at us and the Trent End with about fifty of us in the corner going mad when we scored.
I've stood on the Kop several times and in the home end at loads of clubs over the decades and never had any trouble, but I can honestly say I'd never do it now.
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I loved that team and that season. We've had better, certainly before, but there was something about the way it all came together so unexpectedly and at period when I had the time, money and independence to travel home and away unhindered by the obligations of later life, that mean I will always look back at 1989/90 and smile. Those three victories over the Christmas period, the Cup run until we had to play on the plastic, Spurs away, Chrissie Price at Highbury and of course the season finale at Goodison. Genuinely happy days.
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We've had this debate before; in the old days of more violence you could often sit together with no problems. Do it now and it's "STEEEEWAARRRDDD!!!"
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We've had this debate before; in the old days of more violence you could often sit together with no problems. Do it now and it's "STEEEEWAARRRDDD!!!"
I wonder how much might be the costs involved as well.
Pay £6 to get in and if you're thrown out it's nothing more than a bit annoying. Pay £40 for your seat, and it becomes a risk not worth financially taking.
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We've had this debate before; in the old days of more violence you could often sit together with no problems. Do it now and it's "STEEEEWAARRRDDD!!!"
What was the catalyst for that to start, was it all seater stadiums?
I'm not for one minute saying it was all sweetness and light back in the day. I remember my older brother in hospital in Liverpool in the 70s when some scouse nutter smashed a milk crate over his head inside the bloody ground. Imagine someone casually taking a milk crate into a football ground these days, but I remember it happening all the time in the Holte when I was a kid. Ha!
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We've had this debate before; in the old days of more violence you could often sit together with no problems. Do it now and it's "STEEEEWAARRRDDD!!!"
I reckon it's down to a few things, easier to spot now it's all-seater for a starter, which also makes it harder to move and melt into the home fans like you could if sussed in the old days, and so many now want to act like 'lads' that they'll be mouthing off from rows away at the 'offender' safe in the knowledge that they aren't actually involved, but by mouthing off etc it will often escalate the situation.
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The internet doesn't help, either. All this scum and The Shit stuff raises the temperature.
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I always thought Ormondroyd was quite skillful for a bloke of his size and build. I liked him.
And he scored some cracking goals as well.
And he had a rousing song:
Or-mon-droyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd,
Ormondroyd, Or-mon-droyd!
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I always thought Ormondroyd was quite skillful for a bloke of his size and build. I liked him.
And he scored some cracking goals as well.
And he had a rousing song:
Or-mon-droyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd,
Ormondroyd, Or-mon-droyd!
I'd have joined in with that but I'd forgotten the words.
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See also "Tony, Tony Daley!" "Sid, Sid, Sid!", and the complexity of "Kent Nielsen, la, la, la!"
Then it was Joycean stream of consciousness with "Chris Price, Chris Price, Chrissy, Chrissy Price! He's got no hair but we don't care, Chrissy, Chrissy Price!"
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I feel better reliving that season.
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I always thought Ormondroyd was quite skillful for a bloke of his size and build. I liked him.
And he scored some cracking goals as well.
And he had a rousing song:
Or-mon-droyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd,
Ormondroyd, Or-mon-droyd!
Bob Dylan couldn't have come up with better lyrics than that.
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I always thought Ormondroyd was quite skillful for a bloke of his size and build. I liked him.
And he scored some cracking goals as well.
And he had a rousing song:
Or-mon-droyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroyd, Ormondroy-oyd,
Ormondroyd, Or-mon-droyd!
Bob Dylan couldn't have come up with better lyrics than that.
No you're right. Bob Dylan couldn't definitely couldn't. Bob Dylan is garbage.
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We've made one of those quote fails
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"Oh yeah"!
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I understand that he wanted to take the England job, but one of the greatest 'if onlys' for me if he'd stayed for the 90-91 season after finishing 2nd in the league.
Personally I think that side was punching above its weight a wee bit and would have dipped again even under GT. McGrath, Cowans and Platt were all top class. Players like Chris Price (much as I liked him) Mountfield, Neilson, Sticks Ormondroyd and Tony Cantscorino don't belong in that bracket. The latter two struggled to even control a football most of the time.
And if GT had stayed we probably wouldn't have had the BFR years, so it worked out well in the end.
Look at that team's record against the teams immediately below them and tell me which ones were better. I'd take winning the league (which I'm still convinced we would have by 1992 over anything Ron did.
And look at how many sides finished above us in 1991.
When BFR took over just over a year after Taylor had left, he had virtually the same team as the side that finished second in 89/90, minus Platt (which is a pretty big minus, granted).
In his book a few years back, BFR said his initial intention was to give the bulk of that side a chance over an extended period of time and not make wholesale changes. But a few weeks into the job, it was obvious to him that without major surgery, that side was going down.
A big proportion of that side was also close to going down in 1988/89.
So was 89/90 going to be the start of something special under Taylor, or was it merely an aberration? (Albeit a very welcome one).
Ultimately we'll never know, but when GT signed Cantscorino at the back end of that season, he said it was with a view to ensuring Aston Villa would be in the top 6 for a few years in a row. Even he wasn't talking about another title push the following year.
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Anyone who knocks him for his time with England and some of the players he picked needs to look at who his options were at the time. Shilton and Butcher retired from international football, Robson was getting too old and becoming a bit part player at United, Gazza was seriously injured, a number of others were past their best and a good number of the players who did so well in Euro '96 were just up and coming youngsters at that time.
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This shows just how much we owe the bloke
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Legend. Pure and simple. When Sir Graham lost it on the touchline, Christ the response was immediate. But yet an absolute gentleman. A part of me still thinks that today, even in the background, playing some small part, he could get us back up quickly. He wouldn't stand for this mess.
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This shows just how much we owe the bloke
Great stuff, thanks for linking that. Never knew Bruno was a Villa fan...one of my all time favourites, especially for his goals against the Blues at St Andrews
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This shows just how much we owe the bloke
Nice. They visibly light up when they talk about taylor.
Whilst I appreciate that he is too old/retired to take up a permanent role at the club it would be great if Hollis asked him to help for say 12 months as a trouble shooter from the football perspective. I'm sure/hope Hollis has a good understanding of restructuring big organisations but it's important that a football man is involved.
Numerous people on this thread talk about how he re-organised the whole ethos of the club. This is what we need, not 'bants' on the training ground.
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This shows just how much we owe the bloke
Great stuff, thanks for linking that. Never knew Bruno was a Villa fan...one of my all time favourites, especially for his goals against the Blues at St Andrews
Gary Thompson went to Brandwood School in Kings Heath with Paul Dyson (ex Coventry City) and were preceded by the Latchfords (Bob, Dave and Peter). The school also produced the middle distance runners Ian, Peter and Mary Stewart. Quite an achievement in a period of a little over 10 years.
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I was at that game!
Not in the Shelf after blagging in for nothing though.
I wouldn't have had the nerve!
Our bit was sold out. That was a weird season - it was like some armstice had happened and opposition fans were okay with each other. I stood on the Kop when some old Scousers had somebody thrown out for having a go at us and the Trent End with about fifty of us in the corner going mad when we scored.
Ha, I was in the Trent End in the corner with a mate and trying to keep (sort of) quiet - I'd been out all night and went more or less straight to the game. When we scored we were surrounded by Villa. Makes me laugh thinking about it still.
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Dare i say the England team in 1990 did have a lot of luck along the way, Belguim and Cameroon for isntance. A lot of the players in that team were ready to retire.
Sir Graham did a good job but the press took the level of abuse that Sir Bobby received up a notch and that was wrong.
Great manager and man, His twitter account (in case you have seen it) is a fake
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I remember when GT came to Villa and a Watford season ticket holder we did business with said at the time that alot of things GT got credit for was due to the coaching of Steve Harrison.
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Hundreds with but a single thought - Spurs.
just for you Dave, a Central News report...not great quality, but some great action and some nice shots of the Villa faithful and Sir Graham at the end :)
UTV
The Doc
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Enjoyed that video, cheers.
Good tackle by Mabbutt!
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What was the last line by Phil Mepham "supporters will be confident of a victory over Wimbledon on Saturday". If only Platty had scored the penalty against Segars it might have been a different story.
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
England had just lost to Sweden.
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
Yes, the reason is that they are a bunch of ******.
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
England had just lost to Sweden.
Ah right ok. Cheers Dave.
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Good ol Doug making the situation focus on him lol
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
There was a newspaper headline. Swedes 2 Turnips 1, or whatever the score was. It was actually aimed at the players.
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They had morphed a turnip on to the face of Sir Graham to give him a turnip head.
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
There was a newspaper headline. Swedes 2 Turnips 1, or whatever the score was. It was actually aimed at the players.
Followed by Yanks 2 Planks 0 from recollection.
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They had morphed a turnip on to the face of Sir Graham to give him a turnip head.
bastards
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They had morphed a turnip on to the face of Sir Graham to give him a turnip head.
When he got sacked, the Scum had that on the front page with a headline along the lines of "That's Your Allotment". Wankers.
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It was before my time but why a turnip? I get that the dickheads at the sun wanted to unfairly hammer him but was there a reason behind that terminology?
There was a newspaper headline. Swedes 2 Turnips 1, or whatever the score was. It was actually aimed at the players.
given that we usually always lose in Sweden and given that that particular Sweden team finished 3rd in the 1994 World Cup it seems very over the top but also how Sir GT has been harshly remembered. The defeat against the US was poor but that was arguably the best US team, after us they lost 4-3 against Germany. Just a sign that they weren't mugs.
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Was there once a quote from him about the then players thinking they could turn up, and eat Fish and Chips, and then play on a Saturday....
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Was there once a quote from him about the then players thinking they could turn up, and eat Fish and Chips, and then play on a Saturday....
I think he said something about them eating fish and chips on the coach home.
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Funny really, Taylor was let down by his England players in much the same way as Villa are at the moment.
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God we need someone like him now, I will always have a mountain of respect for Sir Graham and will never forgive that twat of a ref who fucked him/us over in the Holland "do I not like that" game. - yet another example of the war footballing officialdom seems to have waged against England over the years.
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I love Taylor, but the England job was to big for him same as it has been for every England manager we have had over the last 40 years
you can blame who you like, players, press, the FA, Thatcher, Bono, but the job has made of mugs of them all
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I don't think it was too big for Bobby Robson. Sven had early promise too, but his social life probably contributed to his downfall. The rest of them that I've seen from Greenwood onwards, I agree it was too big for them. Taylor was a great club manager, but not cut out for international football, clearly. If cloughie had got the job when he was being touted for it, I reckon he would have won something.
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I don't think it was too big for Bobby Robson. Sven had early promise too, but his social life probably contributed to his downfall. The rest of them that I've seen from Greenwood onwards, I agree it was too big for them. Taylor was a great club manager, but not cut out for international football, clearly. If cloughie had got the job when he was being touted for it, I reckon he would have won something.
Agree with Sir Bobby. I'd also add Venables to that. If he hadn't left because of off-field issues I think he'd have taken us forward from that brilliant Euro 96 tournament.
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It is an entirely different ball game being the England manager against being a club manager. For England it is a case of selecting who you want and then on the few training sessions you have, trying to coach them into the system you want them to play/how best to negate the opposition. With a club you have all the background stuff like buying/selling; players coming to end of contracts etc.
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Great manager for Watford and Villa, but the one thing I had against him and it happened after he had gone, I remember him being a commentator on a Villa game towards the end of the season, we were doing reasonably well, sure we were there or there abouts for the title, but for the life of me can not remember the manager, but his words were along the lines of it was ours for the taking and we bottled it, he obviously forget how we bottled it under him, was it against Oldham at home??
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2 monumental defeats in that 1989-90 season (when we were going for the double) were losing 3-0 at home to Wimbledon - when a win would've put us 5 points clear at the top - I felt we never properly recovered after that in the league that year - and also a 3-0 FA Cup 6th Round defeat on Oldham's plastic pitch.
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Great manager for Watford and Villa, but the one thing I had against him and it happened after he had gone, I remember him being a commentator on a Villa game towards the end of the season, we were doing reasonably well, sure we were there or there abouts for the title, but for the life of me can not remember the manager, but his words were along the lines of it was ours for the taking and we bottled it, he obviously forget how we bottled it under him, was it against Oldham at home??
He was criticised the season after he left when he was co commentating at the away leg of the Inter Milan game where we lost 3-0. He laid into the team and criticised the defending and said he would "kick their backsides" for defending so deep.
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As Gary Neville is finding out, alot easier sat in that chair in the studio than in the dug out.
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Great manager for Watford and Villa, but the one thing I had against him and it happened after he had gone, I remember him being a commentator on a Villa game towards the end of the season, we were doing reasonably well, sure we were there or there abouts for the title, but for the life of me can not remember the manager, but his words were along the lines of it was ours for the taking and we bottled it, he obviously forget how we bottled it under him, was it against Oldham at home??
He spoke as a fan not a neutral pundit/co-commentator. That should endear him more to us, not less.
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If he is co-commentator he is there in a professional capacity and as stated found it easy to slag off who ever was the manager at the time, but forget his own failings the season he was in the same position, sure it was Oldham at home and Tony Casc had not long signed if memory serves.
PW great manager and has the good of the club central most of the time, but as for Gary Neville those studios are alot easier than the dug out.
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If he is co-commentator he is there in a professional capacity and as stated found it easy to slag off who ever was the manager at the time, but forget his own failings the season he was in the same position, sure it was Oldham at home and Tony Casc had not long signed if memory serves.
PW great manager and has the good of the club central most of the time, but as for Gary Neville those studios are alot easier than the dug out.
It wasn't Oldham. They were in division two at the time.
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It's funny, but I always think that Taylor goes out of his way not to be critical of managers when he is punditing ( is that a word?). It's like he has an empathy with managers and doesn't want to add to their stress levels. Although he did criticise us a bit when we played Inter under Venglos. Forget what he said now, but he had a bit of a go at our formation
edit, just read SH's post about this
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If he is co-commentator he is there in a professional capacity and as stated found it easy to slag off who ever was the manager at the time, but forget his own failings the season he was in the same position, sure it was Oldham at home and Tony Casc had not long signed if memory serves.
PW great manager and has the good of the club central most of the time, but as for Gary Neville those studios are alot easier than the dug out.
That makes absolutely no sense.
Taylor signed Cascarino in March of the 89/90 title bid. By the time of the next run at it under Atkinson, which did fall apart at home to Oldham, Cascarino was long gone.
As EDITPeter W saunders_heroes. says above, he was , quite rightly, critical of some of the defending in the away leg against Inter. I also remember him saying he was disappointed that we were playing in our away strip because Claret & Blue was what were all about.
I have no idea if he was co-commentator against Oldham under Atkinson and to be honest, I was too pissed off (and up) to care by the time I got home.
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game that didfer us that season IMO was losing 2-1 to Man City at home. But other contenders would be losing to Wimbledon at home (obviously) and Cov away - first time we ever lost to the pricks as well and to rub it in it was live on ITV on a Sunday. Another one was QPR away also but obviously a late highlight to the season was Arsenal away when Cascarino played a Zidane style through ball. But the way that season started with Trev getting a hat trick and being 1-0 to Palace with 10 minutes to go, its pretty overlooked at what a rollercoaster the season was. After the loss to QPR at home it looked like it was gonna be a season of struggle until the Palace comeback kick started the season. By the waym, seeing this is a Graham Taylor thread, and not sure if this topic has been mentioned on here before - there was a club open day in September 1987 where the club and grounds were totally accessible and players were chatting with supporters. That was Taylor's idea to make Villa more of a family club and it really did a great job in uniting all for the cause that season. I was in awe of meeting the likes of Spink, McInally, Taylor himself and even Doug Ellis in the trophy room as well!
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It was Inter Milan, under Venglos.
He was right as well
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VID it was the 89/90 title bid that I was on about, just got the Oldham fixture mixed up.
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
You were lucky. I came back on a coach on my own. It was a long trip after that defeat.
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
You were lucky. I came back on a coach on my own. It was a long trip after that defeat.
So did we, £88 if I recall correctly.
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
You were lucky. I came back on a coach on my own. It was a long trip after that defeat.
So did we, £88 if I recall correctly.
We went with Premier, great sing song and piss up on the ferry over, one night stay on the French/Italian border with another great piss up in a french bar.
Just a few brief stops on the way back due to the rather flat mood. Sleep was very difficult, I remember a few of us taking it turns to lie on the floor and try and nod off. The only issue is that we lay directly above the gear box and the driver had resorted to the "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em" method of changing gear.
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
I remember that 3-0 defeat in Milan well - yes we played awful - Cascarino missed an easy chance (which would've given us the crucial away goal) - Stuart Gray was fouled but for some reason a free kick was given to them from which they made it 2-0 on the night and as mentioned above Paul McGrath appeared to let their player take the ball over the line before he crossed it for what was the overall winner - I remember a Liverpool supporting friend I worked with at the time saying to me the next morning "your team were robbed last night".
As for SGT - a superb manager - who knows but for that Ronald Coleman foul on David Platt with the score still at 0-0 (in a game England only had to draw to qualify as I remember) and although I've never met him in person a truly sincere person and ever since he came to us in 1987 - a big Villa man - but that's the affect the club has on you - once a Villa man - ALWAYS a Villa man.
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The Oldham game was the FA cup, away on the plastic pitch, was it not? I went to that one. Fucking freezing. And we lost. 3-0.
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Graham Taylor & His Wife turned up at England Dave's funeral yesterday not in any official capacity as I'm aware but purely as a good honest football man paying his respects.
Top top respect to the man !!
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Graham Taylor & His Wife turned up at England Dave's funeral yesterday not in any official capacity as I'm aware but purely as a good honest football man paying his respects.
Top top respect to the man !!
Yep I heard this, total respect to the man.
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Graham Taylor & His Wife turned up at England Dave's funeral yesterday not in any official capacity as I'm aware but purely as a good honest football man paying his respects.
Top top respect to the man !!
Yep I heard this, total respect to the man.
Just when you think your respect for someone can't be any greater.
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Appointing sir graham as a non exec director may have a galvanizing effect. He knows what's required to pick the club up off it's arse. Come back Sir Graham your club needs you... As an act of faith to affirm the covenant between the club and the fans, I could think of nothing finer.
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Graham Taylor & His Wife turned up at England Dave's funeral yesterday not in any official capacity as I'm aware but purely as a good honest football man paying his respects.
Top top respect to the man !!
What a lovely thing for them to do. My cockles are very much warmed by hearing that.
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Hi guys n gals, I don't post v often (yes a lurker in the midst) but I was at England Dave's funeral, what is even more special about Sir Graham turning up is he made no fuss about the fact he didn't actually get in. But still stayed to the end to pay his respects to the family. I have more respect for this man than I can put into words. Btw Sid turned up at the wake top man.
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
You were lucky. I came back on a coach on my own. It was a long trip after that defeat.
So did we, £88 if I recall correctly.
We went with Premier, great sing song and piss up on the ferry over, one night stay on the French/Italian border with another great piss up in a french bar.
Just a few brief stops on the way back due to the rather flat mood. Sleep was very difficult, I remember a few of us taking it turns to lie on the floor and try and nod off. The only issue is that we lay directly above the gear box and the driver had resorted to the "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em" method of changing gear.
I went with Premier as well, we were kicked out of the hotel on Lake Garda the night before the game having booked for the few days after as well.
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
You were lucky. I came back on a coach on my own. It was a long trip after that defeat.
So did we, £88 if I recall correctly.
We went with Premier, great sing song and piss up on the ferry over, one night stay on the French/Italian border with another great piss up in a french bar.
Just a few brief stops on the way back due to the rather flat mood. Sleep was very difficult, I remember a few of us taking it turns to lie on the floor and try and nod off. The only issue is that we lay directly above the gear box and the driver had resorted to the "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em" method of changing gear.
I went with Premier as well, we were kicked out of the hotel on Lake Garda the night before the game having booked for the few days after as well.
Yep, free the Lake Garda 52!! We never did get a refund on that from recollection.
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I got a couple of free away trips from memory.
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Best thing Doug Ellis did was appoint Sir GT after relegation. Shame that the current incumbent has f***** up every appointment he's ever made. Getting GT back in some capacity would be a master stroke. Of course it isn't going to happen. I hope GT enjoys his retirement.
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Sorry, who is England's Dave?
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Best thing Doug Ellis did was appoint Sir GT after relegation. Shame that the current incumbent has f***** up every appointment he's ever made. Getting GT back in some capacity would be a master stroke. Of course it isn't going to happen. I hope GT enjoys his retirement.
I wouldn't give Doug that much credit in appointing Sir Graham. It wasn't like he sought him out as the man to put things right. It turned out great which is more a reflection on the manager than the meddlesome chairman.
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Sorry, who is England's Dave?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/popular-aston-villa-fanatic-laid-10778318
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Toronto Villa. With respect I recall that Dave Bassett was another candidate.
I am not a huge fan of Herbert but that was a master stroke and it achieved exactly what we needed at that time in our history. The 4-2 win at Bradford that season was a pivotal moment for us, and I recall writing to GT about that performance and he replied and thanked me for my support from distance. I was 15 and living in Hertfordshire but loving Division 2 and travelling with the London Lions.
In answer to the question of England's Dave. England Dave is a legendary Villa and England fan who recently passed away. Had some great times with him at Villa and England. Got interviewed by Japanese TV with Dave when we were in Tokyo in 2002. We were giving out postcards of Villa Park and the locals were absolutely loving it. Great memories.
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Damien, Dave Woodhall can add greater detail but as much as the appointment was inspired in the end I don't think Doug had Taylor in mind as his first choice.
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Love this old doc. The stark contrast at the start, of him looking over the Lincoln City ground, then bursting with pride as he walks out at Wembley as England manager is brilliant.
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Never seen that documentary. When you see what he said about the press in the May 1984 interview, he was on a hiding to nothing with the England job. Those gutterdogs would have been waiting to pounce from the moment he as appointed.
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Damien, Dave Woodhall can add greater detail but as much as the appointment was inspired in the end I don't think Doug had Taylor in mind as his first choice.
Toronoto Villa. I would be most interested to hear what Dave says about that. A fascinating period in Villa's history. Maybe I am wrong about Doug going all out for GT. I remember that era quite vividly and do recall that Dave Bassett was in the running, but getting GT was seen as a bit of a coup because Watford were very much on the up at that time.
Fact remains though that he was the right manager at the right time. He came in and said something to the effect of Villa being rotten to the core.
That assessment feels quite familiar at the current time. We clearly need someone with that depth of feeling for the club to come in and do likewise. I like Remi Garde but I just can't see him ruffling feathers in that manner, and dragging the club kicking and screaming out of it's current malaise.
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Damien, Dave Woodhall can add greater detail but as much as the appointment was inspired in the end I don't think Doug had Taylor in mind as his first choice.
Toronoto Villa. I would be most interested to hear what Dave says about that. A fascinating period in Villa's history. Maybe I am wrong about Doug going all out for GT. I remember that era quite vividly and do recall that Dave Bassett was in the running, but getting GT was seen as a bit of a coup because Watford were very much on the up at that time.
Fact remains though that he was the right manager at the right time. He came in and said something to the effect of Villa being rotten to the core.
That assessment feels quite familiar at the current time. We clearly need someone with that depth of feeling for the club to come in and do likewise. I like Remi Garde but I just can't see him ruffling feathers in that manner, and dragging the club kicking and screaming out of it's current malaise.
Precised, Dick Taylor was an old friend of Sir Graham's from his Scunthorpe days and kept a sports shop on Witton Road. He found out that Graham was looking to leave Watford (he thought he'd taken them as far as he could and neeed a bash at a bigger club to improve his chances of the England job) and tipped off Doug.
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Cheers Dave
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Damien, Dave Woodhall can add greater detail but as much as the appointment was inspired in the end I don't think Doug had Taylor in mind as his first choice.
Toronoto Villa. I would be most interested to hear what Dave says about that. A fascinating period in Villa's history. Maybe I am wrong about Doug going all out for GT. I remember that era quite vividly and do recall that Dave Bassett was in the running, but getting GT was seen as a bit of a coup because Watford were very much on the up at that time.
Fact remains though that he was the right manager at the right time. He came in and said something to the effect of Villa being rotten to the core.
That assessment feels quite familiar at the current time. We clearly need someone with that depth of feeling for the club to come in and do likewise. I like Remi Garde but I just can't see him ruffling feathers in that manner, and dragging the club kicking and screaming out of it's current malaise.
Precised, Dick Taylor was an old friend of Sir Graham's from his Scunthorpe days and kept a sports shop on Witton Road. He found out that Graham was looking to leave Watford (he thought he'd taken them as far as he could and neeed a bash at a bigger club to improve his chances of the England job) and tipped off Doug.
Thanks for the insight Dave. Never knew that. A great strory and one that turned out well for all parties, except the England bit of course,
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In my fantasy world where I win the biggest Euromillions jackpot ever and take over the Villa I have two jobs to do on day one:
Ring Graham Taylor and ask him if he wants a job then ring Steve Stride and ask him the same.
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I love the sentimental feeling but I'd be getting in David Dein plus even a prick like Peter Kenyon. I want winners. I'm so tired of losing.
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Damien, Dave Woodhall can add greater detail but as much as the appointment was inspired in the end I don't think Doug had Taylor in mind as his first choice.
Toronoto Villa. I would be most interested to hear what Dave says about that. A fascinating period in Villa's history. Maybe I am wrong about Doug going all out for GT. I remember that era quite vividly and do recall that Dave Bassett was in the running, but getting GT was seen as a bit of a coup because Watford were very much on the up at that time.
Fact remains though that he was the right manager at the right time. He came in and said something to the effect of Villa being rotten to the core.
That assessment feels quite familiar at the current time. We clearly need someone with that depth of feeling for the club to come in and do likewise. I like Remi Garde but I just can't see him ruffling feathers in that manner, and dragging the club kicking and screaming out of it's current malaise.
Precised, Dick Taylor was an old friend of Sir Graham's from his Scunthorpe days and kept a sports shop on Witton Road. He found out that Graham was looking to leave Watford (he thought he'd taken them as far as he could and neeed a bash at a bigger club to improve his chances of the England job) and tipped off Doug.
Thanks for the insight Dave. Never knew that. A great strory and one that turned out well for all parties, except the England bit of course,
A Northern Soul......That's the 1st thing i'd do too. Steve Stride loves Villa almost as much as me. He and GT would be such superb appointments. And then I checked twitter and that tool Fox is still running Villa and making every **** up imaginable. Nice to lose myself for a moment and dream about that for a short while. Apologies for any grammatical errors........ been drowning my sorrows today.
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What would we all give for a 1987 version of SGT back at the club next season?
And another no-mark from Crewe and a calypso kid from Trinidad and Tobago.
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What would we all give for a 1987 version of SGT back at the club next season?
And another no-mark from Crewe and a calypso kid from Trinidad and Tobago.
[cheapshot]We've already got one of those[/cheapshot]
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That's why I said another VID
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Turned out alright though eh?
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The Milan Game was not the best display, if I remember correctly a Russian linesman did not flag when the ball went out over the goal line
and the subsequent cross ended up in our net. with Cascarino missing a good chance it was never going to be easy, But the journey back
to the airport was subdued and when we got our return tickets from the travel club we got into the transfer bus only to find sir Graham standing there and had lots of encouraging words for my 12 year old son. when we were on the plane just after take off sir graham got up
to go to the loo at the back, he was talking to all the fans and had to run back to his seat to land at Bham, he truly gave his time and kind words to all. I will never forget that
You were lucky. I came back on a coach on my own. It was a long trip after that defeat.
So did we, £88 if I recall correctly.
We went with Premier, great sing song and piss up on the ferry over, one night stay on the French/Italian border with another great piss up in a french bar.
Just a few brief stops on the way back due to the rather flat mood. Sleep was very difficult, I remember a few of us taking it turns to lie on the floor and try and nod off. The only issue is that we lay directly above the gear box and the driver had resorted to the "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em" method of changing gear.
I went with Premier as well, we were kicked out of the hotel on Lake Garda the night before the game having booked for the few days after as well.
Yep, free the Lake Garda 52!! We never did get a refund on that from recollection.
My brothers' work mates did the Lake Garda trip, I remember them saying there was a lad who'd bee knicked for some fairly minor incident but he'd done a runner with the cuffs still on, and he'd been found hiding under the bed in his mates room.
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From recollection, Premier had booked the hotel as it was between Milan and Verona where UEFA were threatening to make Inter play when the draw was made due to some crowd aggro at a previous home game. Now Premier also ran coach trips to concerts etc and I dont think they had been entirely open with the hotel about the make up of the booking, they were expecting a load of Phil Collins fans, remember that this was pretty soon after England fans had played up at Italia 90 so it was fresh in the memory. When we got there the hotel owners were not happy at all and it was pretty clear that they were looking for a reason to get rid of us.
The coach all went out on the piss and had a great night in the local bars and behaved very well, then some went back to the hotel and someone opened a beer bottle on a door frame and split it, this was seen by staff, the Police called and we were all ejected. I cant mind anyone being nicked for it.
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My brothers' work mates did the Lake Garda trip, I remember them saying there was a lad who'd bee knicked for some fairly minor incident but he'd done a runner with the cuffs still on, and he'd been found hiding under the bed in his mates room.
Unless there was two of them, that was on our trip which stopped in France. And guess who was the coach steward who had to go and get him out of the police station?
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(http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2015/08/13/17/blakeyepa.jpeg)
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I hate you (Doc) Butler.
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I was gonna listen to this podcast out of curiosity but not only does it have Jimmy Bullard on it, but you'd have to listen to that gobshite "comedian" Rob Beckett. Jesus. That's piss poor that is.
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My brothers' work mates did the Lake Garda trip, I remember them saying there was a lad who'd bee knicked for some fairly minor incident but he'd done a runner with the cuffs still on, and he'd been found hiding under the bed in his mates room.
Unless there was two of them, that was on our trip which stopped in France. And guess who was the coach steward who had to go and get him out of the police station?
Ha ha, you're probably right with the destination.