Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: MorrisNielson on December 11, 2015, 04:28:38 PM
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A post for those who are interested in our history.
I’ve just put together some newspaper clippings for the first known reports relating to our club.
Looks like we failed to turn up against Aston Park Unity on the 02/01/1875. We then played them the following Saturday and then on the 30/01/1875.
(http://i.imgur.com/ouhnqbY.jpg)
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great to see that in 1875 that we were known as "the Villa"
thanks for posting :)
UTV
The Doc
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Ace!
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W.Weiss at full back known as Billy was born in Germany.Apparently he was a good singer
in the pub after these early games.
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Villa "not turning up" a concept we've seen plenty of these last few years, sadly.
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A post for those who are interested in our history.
I’ve just put together some newspaper clippings for the first known reports relating to our club.
Looks like we failed to turn up against Aston Park Unity on the 02/01/1875. We then played them the following Saturday and then on the 30/01/1875.
(http://i.imgur.com/ouhnqbY.jpg)
Well done Morris. The second report is quite possibly the first ever report of a Villa match. Nobody yet has found a report of the accepted first match against Aston Brook St Marys in either March 1874, or October !874 as John Lerwill reckons it could be. Like the Loch Ness monster I don't think it exists but I hadn't heard of The Birmingham Morning News before so maybe they sent someone along as it may have had local interest.
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I like the idea of Robbins snr and jnr playing in the same team. Father and son presumably.
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Villa memories!?!?! I'd donate £1M to H&V if someone on here remembers 1875.
Disclsimer: In the highly unlikely event someone remembers that I was joking about the £1m.
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Villa memories!?!?! I'd donate £1M to H&V if someone on here remembers 1875.
Disclsimer: In the highly unlikely event someone remembers that I was joking about the £1m.
We went to Wembley for the 1971 Final with an old boy who had been to the 1905 Final. There's a chance he went to a game with someone who was there in 1875.
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A post for those who are interested in our history.
I’ve just put together some newspaper clippings for the first known reports relating to our club.
Looks like we failed to turn up against Aston Park Unity on the 02/01/1875. We then played them the following Saturday and then on the 30/01/1875.
(http://i.imgur.com/ouhnqbY.jpg)
Well done Morris. The second report is quite possibly the first ever report of a Villa match. Nobody yet has found a report of the accepted first match against Aston Brook St Marys in either March 1874, or October !874 as John Lerwill reckons it could be. Like the Loch Ness monster I don't think it exists but I hadn't heard of The Birmingham Morning News before so maybe they sent someone along as it may have had local interest.
Now thereby hangs a tale. The Birmingham Morning News of 16th November 1875 reported on a match that had taken place two days earlier between Aston Villa and Aston Brook St Mary's at Heathfield Rd - mention of this was in issue 10 of Soccer History magazine, winter 2004. Villa won 1-0, the goal being scored by Jack Hughes with a ball that had been hired for the occasion, and it stretches credulity to think that the same teams could play each other twice, particuarly at twelve months interval, with exactly the same outcome so the Aston Brook game can safely be said to have taken place then. The library archives don't have a copy of the BMN for that day so one may no longer exist.
The Aston Unity club (an offshoot of the cricket club of the same name, which still exists) regarded the games in January 1875 as full fixtures, while the Villa were said to be a scratch side drawn from members of the cricket club. The club's early history was, I believe, almost exclusively catalogued by Hughes so if they/he says the Aston Brook game was the first, who are mere mortals to argue?
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Amazing stuff!
I am reading Archie Hunter's "Triumphs of the Football Field" at the moment and this is wonderful extra stuff.
Keep it coming...although a bit later, you cannot believe how much I regret not badgering my aunts and uncles when I had the chance - age 10/11/12 etc but was a shy young lad...
A few cousins of my own era are brilliant, but I definitely missed an opportunity or two!
If only....
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It also refers to is as the Aston Villa. So the Wembley banner guus ist be correct.
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For those of you interested in our history. When we first moved into our present ground in March !897 it was known as Aston Lower Grounds. Today I have found an article in the Lancashire Evening Post dated 18th Sept !897 which states "Aston Lower Grounds the Villa's new home,has been rechristened and will be known in future as Villa Park- a very appropriate name". That didn't take long then! I bet Joe Dunkley wanted it called Wellington Rd Perry Barr!
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For those of you interested in our history. When we first moved into our present ground in March !897 it was known as Aston Lower Grounds. Today I have found an article in the Lancashire Evening Post dated 18th Sept 1897 which states "Aston Lower Grounds the Villa's new home,has been rechristened and will be known in future as Villa Park- a very appropriate name". That didn't take long then! I bet Joe Dunkley wanted it called Wellington Rd Perry Barr!
That's interesting. Even Simon Inglis in the Villa Park centenary says there was no offical re-naming date so that's a big find.
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For those of you interested in our history. When we first moved into our present ground in March !897 it was known as Aston Lower Grounds. Today I have found an article in the Lancashire Evening Post dated 18th Sept 1897 which states "Aston Lower Grounds the Villa's new home,has been rechristened and will be known in future as Villa Park- a very appropriate name". That didn't take long then! I bet Joe Dunkley wanted it called Wellington Rd Perry Barr!
That's interesting. Even Simon Inglis in the Villa Park centenary says there was no offical re-naming date so that's a big find.
Their hack must have got this information direct from the club Dave.
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For those of you interested in our history. When we first moved into our present ground in March !897 it was known as Aston Lower Grounds. Today I have found an article in the Lancashire Evening Post dated 18th Sept 1897 which states "Aston Lower Grounds the Villa's new home,has been rechristened and will be known in future as Villa Park- a very appropriate name". That didn't take long then! I bet Joe Dunkley wanted it called Wellington Rd Perry Barr!
That's interesting. Even Simon Inglis in the Villa Park centenary says there was no offical re-naming date so that's a big find.
Their hack must have got this information direct from the club Dave.
Looking at the book, Simon says that the Birmingham Daily Mail referred to "Villa Park" in August 1897 but it doesn't seem to have caught on and the News & Record still used Lower Grounds until 1907.
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great to see that in 1875 that we were known as "the Villa"
thanks for posting :)
UTV
The Doc
I know being Aston Villa makes us the most beautifully named club in the world - but I do love it when we are referred to as "The Villa".
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For those of you interested in our history. When we first moved into our present ground in March !897 it was known as Aston Lower Grounds. Today I have found an article in the Lancashire Evening Post dated 18th Sept 1897 which states "Aston Lower Grounds the Villa's new home,has been rechristened and will be known in future as Villa Park- a very appropriate name". That didn't take long then! I bet Joe Dunkley wanted it called Wellington Rd Perry Barr!
That's interesting. Even Simon Inglis in the Villa Park centenary says there was no offical re-naming date so that's a big find.
Their hack must have got this information direct from the club Dave.
Looking at the book, Simon says that the Birmingham Daily Mail referred to "Villa Park" in August 1897 but it doesn't seem to have caught on and the News & Record still used Lower Grounds until 1907.
Ive had a look at the papers for the England V Scotland game in 1899,well nine of them anyway. We have 4 Aston Lower Grounds,2 Villa Parks, 2 Aston Villa Ground and one Aston Ground. I suppose it must be a bit like West Hams ground. I dont know anybody who calls it Boleyn Ground its always been Upton Park.
Anyway it took the club 10 yrs to sort that one out satisfactory!
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Fascinating stuff so thanks for posting the reports and the follow up revelations about when the ground might have become known as it is today. I love it when things like this get uncovered.
Back then Villa Park would have been an unusual name to be given. Most grounds for decades became known by either the area they were in or the road or street they were situated on and which would have been part of the address. I can't think of another ground which included part of the club's name in it until Vale Park 50 or so years later and since then only really the Cardiff City Stadium. There were others before Villa with Park in the name, but Goodison Park was on Goodison Road and Ewood Park was in the Ewood area. I think St James' Park was already the name of the land on which the football was played and then the ground built.
Since becoming known as Villa Park i also don't think our ground has ever really been known has anything else has it by Villa fans? It's been shortened to just 'the Park' and my dad remembers older relatives still referring to it as The Lower Grounds but that's about it as far as I know. "Hall of Memories" was something other clubs fans called it when I was a kid and I'm sure "The Theatre of Sadness" will stick before too long too.
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For those of you interested in our history. When we first moved into our present ground in March !897 it was known as Aston Lower Grounds. Today I have found an article in the Lancashire Evening Post dated 18th Sept 1897 which states "Aston Lower Grounds the Villa's new home,has been rechristened and will be known in future as Villa Park- a very appropriate name". That didn't take long then! I bet Joe Dunkley wanted it called Wellington Rd Perry Barr!
That's interesting. Even Simon Inglis in the Villa Park centenary says there was no offical re-naming date so that's a big find.
Their hack must have got this information direct from the club Dave.
I don't. Think so as the club state that Villa Park was never official but a nickname given to the ground that stuck.
As for the match reports they sound very much like a modern day caricature of how we poke fun of Americans when commentating on football.
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Now thereby hangs a tale. The Birmingham Morning News of 16th November 1875 reported on a match that had taken place two days earlier between Aston Villa and Aston Brook St Mary's at Heathfield Rd - mention of this was in issue 10 of Soccer History magazine, winter 2004. Villa won 1-0, the goal being scored by Jack Hughes with a ball that had been hired for the occasion, and it stretches credulity to think that the same teams could play each other twice, particuarly at twelve months interval, with exactly the same outcome so the Aston Brook game can safely be said to have taken place then. The library archives don't have a copy of the BMN for that day so one may no longer exist.
The Aston Unity club (an offshoot of the cricket club of the same name, which still exists) regarded the games in January 1875 as full fixtures, while the Villa were said to be a scratch side drawn from members of the cricket club. The club's early history was, I believe, almost exclusively catalogued by Hughes so if they/he says the Aston Brook game was the first, who are mere mortals to argue?
Just thought I’d bump this thread.
I took the liberty in looking up the Birmingham Morning News on the said date and I couldn’t find any reference to that or any other Villa game.
The only football report in the Oct-Dec 1875 period of the BMN was Calthorpe vs Birmingham (no, not that Birmingham).
However, there were a few references to St Mary’s rugby matches.
This doesn’t necessarily mean that the match report doesn’t exist, just not at that particular date in that particular paper.
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Now thereby hangs a tale. The Birmingham Morning News of 16th November 1875 reported on a match that had taken place two days earlier between Aston Villa and Aston Brook St Mary's at Heathfield Rd - mention of this was in issue 10 of Soccer History magazine, winter 2004. Villa won 1-0, the goal being scored by Jack Hughes with a ball that had been hired for the occasion, and it stretches credulity to think that the same teams could play each other twice, particuarly at twelve months interval, with exactly the same outcome so the Aston Brook game can safely be said to have taken place then. The library archives don't have a copy of the BMN for that day so one may no longer exist.
The Aston Unity club (an offshoot of the cricket club of the same name, which still exists) regarded the games in January 1875 as full fixtures, while the Villa were said to be a scratch side drawn from members of the cricket club. The club's early history was, I believe, almost exclusively catalogued by Hughes so if they/he says the Aston Brook game was the first, who are mere mortals to argue?
Just thought I’d bump this thread.
I took the liberty in looking up the Birmingham Morning News on the said date and I couldn’t find any reference to that or any other Villa game.
The only football report in the Oct-Dec 1875 period of the BMN was Calthorpe vs Birmingham (no, not that Birmingham).
However, there were a few references to St Mary’s rugby matches.
This doesn’t necessarily mean that the match report doesn’t exist, just not at that particular date in that particular paper.
Where did you find that edition?
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Dave
You can view it at The British Newspaper Library, St Pancras, Euston Road, London. It’s close to Euston Station.
It’s in their catalogue here (apologies for the long link):
http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/display.do?tabs=moreTab&ct=display&fn=search&doc=BLL01013896659&indx=1&recIds=BLL01013896659&recIdxs=0&elementId=0&renderMode=poppedOut&displayMode=full&frbrVersion=&dscnt=2&fromLogin=true&tab=local_tab&dstmp=1465073981276&vl%28freeText0%29=birmingham%20morning%20news&vid=BLVU1&mode=Basic
(http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/display.do?tabs=moreTab&ct=display&fn=search&doc=BLL01013896659&indx=1&recIds=BLL01013896659&recIdxs=0&elementId=0&renderMode=poppedOut&displayMode=full&frbrVersion=&dscnt=2&fromLogin=true&tab=local_tab&dstmp=1465073981276&vl%28freeText0%29=birmingham%20morning%20news&vid=BLVU1&mode=Basic)
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Dave
You can view it at The British Newspaper Library, St Pancras, Euston Road, London. It’s close to Euston Station.
It’s in their catalogue here (apologies for the long link):
http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/display.do?tabs=moreTab&ct=display&fn=search&doc=BLL01013896659&indx=1&recIds=BLL01013896659&recIdxs=0&elementId=0&renderMode=poppedOut&displayMode=full&frbrVersion=&dscnt=2&fromLogin=true&tab=local_tab&dstmp=1465073981276&vl%28freeText0%29=birmingham%20morning%20news&vid=BLVU1&mode=Basic
(http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/display.do?tabs=moreTab&ct=display&fn=search&doc=BLL01013896659&indx=1&recIds=BLL01013896659&recIdxs=0&elementId=0&renderMode=poppedOut&displayMode=full&frbrVersion=&dscnt=2&fromLogin=true&tab=local_tab&dstmp=1465073981276&vl%28freeText0%29=birmingham%20morning%20news&vid=BLVU1&mode=Basic)
That's interesting because the article in question definitely makes reference to that day's newspaper as the focus of the piece.
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This seems a good a place as any to drop this into.
One for those you are interested in our formation.
(http://i.imgur.com/xkIG2M7.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/UjgxD8H.jpg)
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Heres my shilling!!Villa for ever
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(http://i.imgur.com/UjgxD8H.jpg)
That's both brilliant and bizarre (by today's standards). Thank you.
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Superb stuff Morris.
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Fantastic stuff. So we now have a rough date of our founding and an exact date for our first game.
Also was it known who scored our first goal before?
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That is great. But that would put Hughes at around 75ish at the time of writing and the flow and diction doesn't read as that of an elder gentleman of Victorian stock more as the words written in the third person.
Either way - March 1874. That'll do for me.
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Fantastic stuff. So we now have a rough date of our founding and an exact date for our first game.
Also was it known who scored our first goal before?
The goalscorer has always been known. The date of the first match, though, is still a mystery. For a start, if it was in March 1874 that nonsense about the lamppost in October 1874 is wrong. Jack Hughes was also, apparently, want to exaggeration and a tendency to fill in the gaps a bit.
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Fantastic stuff. So we now have a rough date of our founding and an exact date for our first game.
Also was it known who scored our first goal before?
The goalscorer has always been known. The date of the first match, though, is still a mystery. For a start, if it was in March 1874 that nonsense about the lamppost in October 1874 is wrong. Jack Hughes was also, apparently, want to exaggeration and a tendency to fill in the gaps a bit.
Quite right Dave. Hughes came out with that story in 1899 in a talk with the Old Villans Society. However he tended to be somewhat economical with the truth regarding the foundation of the club . Perhaps he wanted a bit of glory but you never heard anything at all from the other three 'founders' regarding what actually happened at the very onset.
Using the criteria that the first person/s to start the ball rolling re organising a football club at the Aston Villa Wesleyan Church is the real founder of the club I am in no doubt that person is the leader of the adult male Bible Class, Henry Haynes Hartshorne, but most of the initial work in running the club was undertaken by Edward Phillips and Joseph Brigham as the first secretary. Jack Hughes certainly did his bit in later days along with the far more involved Billy Mason but he was not an actual founder of the club.
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I thought that the talk was in 1897 (although I could be wrong or he gave two), then printed in the Argus. This was then repeated in the anniversary book of 1924, much of which formed the basis for Peter Morris's books, hence the occasional errors in the latter.
Hughes kept the early records and basically wrote the history of that time, so it's no surprise that he has a significant role in it.