Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: TheWarlock on October 20, 2015, 08:02:41 PM
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Didnt see it posted and wouldnt allow me to add a link - thoughts?
AVST Statement – October 20th 2015
The AVST feels it is important to comment on some of the recent goings on at Villa Park. A dreadful start to the season sees us yet again faced with a relegation battle and the club starting to be cut adrift in the relegation places.
Regardless of our individual views on who should be held accountable for the position we find ourselves in, the AVST wishes to remind those involved at all levels of the club that their first duty is to our loyal supporters. To provide them with a team they can be proud of and to show the ambition that a club of our stature deserves.
For two weeks now there have been stories leaking out of Villa Park, seemingly from both the manager and the club, and the AVST demand that this is brought to an end. Pantomime season does not start for another two months.
It seems there is a clear decision to be made and this should be at the forefront of the minds of our board. Do they believe Tim Sherwood is the man to take us forwards and do they believe it is appropriate for him to do so? If the answer is yes to both, then they need to publicly back their man and ensure that everyone starts pulling in the same direction to get us out of the mess we find ourselves in again.
If not, then this cannot be allowed to fester. An immediate change needs to be made in order that a replacement manager can have the maximum amount of time to arrest our slump.
We have had enough of the infighting. It is time for the club to take decisive action, one way or another.
AVST
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Whilst I wholeheartedly agree I'd like to challenge where the club have been leaking information? The only leaks I've seen or read have quite clearly come from the Manager. Can I be enlightened if I've got that wrong?
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Agree with the sentiment of the statement. The issue of the Manager needs to be resolved asap. This uncertainty must NOT be allowed to drag on.
I would also like to know what leaks the club has made, so that we may compare them to what the manager and his friends may have or may not have leaked. Transparency please.
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
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What infighting?
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There isn't any infighting though is there?
We think there is, but there is no evidence. The club haven't actually make any official statements or remarks.
We, as outsiders, see press stories and put 2 & 2 together, make 73, and think there is all sorts of shenanigans going on.
There probably is, but AVST, can't really make statements like this as if it is fact.
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
Really?
This self appointed trust you speak of were elected by members & it is their role to hold the club and its employees to account on behalf of supporters....the pompous little statement asks everyone to behave with the dignity and decorum we expect of our club...what on earth is wrong with that?
In the stands we can cheer, jeer, boo & scream 'Sherwood out' as much as we want - the reality is those at the top will decide what they want when they want & asking them to do it correctly without embarrassing us further is the bare minimum.
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
Really?
This self appointed trust you speak of were elected by members & it is their role to hold the club and its employees to account on behalf of supporters....the pompous little statement asks everyone to behave with the dignity and decorum we expect of our club...what on earth is wrong with that?
In the stands we can cheer, jeer, boo & scream 'Sherwood out' as much as we want - the reality is those at the top will decide what they want when they want & asking them to do it correctly without embarrassing us further is the bare minimum.
It is most assuredly not their role.
I would sooner hear what Brigada or Dave or you and other fans have to say. Its all equally representative and valid. The bunch of fans who label themselves the trust are just that. Its something some fans want to do. Thats fine, lets not start giving them any kind of status above other fans though, they do not have any.
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
Really?
This self appointed trust you speak of were elected by members & it is their role to hold the club and its employees to account on behalf of supporters....the pompous little statement asks everyone to behave with the dignity and decorum we expect of our club...what on earth is wrong with that?
In the stands we can cheer, jeer, boo & scream 'Sherwood out' as much as we want - the reality is those at the top will decide what they want when they want & asking them to do it correctly without embarrassing us further is the bare minimum.
It is most assuredly not their role.
I would sooner hear what Brigada or Dave or you and other fans have to say. Its all equally representative and valid. The bunch of fans who label themselves the trust are just that. Its something some fans want to do. Thats fine, lets not start giving them any kind of status above other fans though, they do not have any.
Honestly what's the big deal? And what's so special about Brigada?
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
Really?
This self appointed trust you speak of were elected by members & it is their role to hold the club and its employees to account on behalf of supporters....the pompous little statement asks everyone to behave with the dignity and decorum we expect of our club...what on earth is wrong with that?
In the stands we can cheer, jeer, boo & scream 'Sherwood out' as much as we want - the reality is those at the top will decide what they want when they want & asking them to do it correctly without embarrassing us further is the bare minimum.
It is most assuredly not their role.
I would sooner hear what Brigada or Dave or you and other fans have to say. Its all equally representative and valid. The bunch of fans who label themselves the trust are just that. Its something some fans want to do. Thats fine, lets not start giving them any kind of status above other fans though, they do not have any.
Honestly what's the big deal? And what's so special about Brigada?
Nothing, just a bunch of fans who care. Kind of my point.
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
Really?
This self appointed trust you speak of were elected by members & it is their role to hold the club and its employees to account on behalf of supporters....the pompous little statement asks everyone to behave with the dignity and decorum we expect of our club...what on earth is wrong with that?
In the stands we can cheer, jeer, boo & scream 'Sherwood out' as much as we want - the reality is those at the top will decide what they want when they want & asking them to do it correctly without embarrassing us further is the bare minimum.
It is most assuredly not their role.
I would sooner hear what Brigada or Dave or you and other fans have to say. Its all equally representative and valid. The bunch of fans who label themselves the trust are just that. Its something some fans want to do. Thats fine, lets not start giving them any kind of status above other fans though, they do not have any.
Honestly what's the big deal? And what's so special about Brigada?
Nothing, just a bunch of fans who care. Kind of my point.
We all bloody care!
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The Trust have got a lot more right to make a statement than me or anyone else, whether you agree with it or not. They are the only democratic body of Villa supporters, anyone can join them and stand for office. They are also the only group who have met with the board and senior management both before and since Randy took over.
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We all bloody care!
Course we do! So do the fans who call themselves the supporters trust. I dont question that for a second. I just dont see why we should pay more attention to them than any other bunch of fans.
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I do not care what the self appointed "trust" says. I want Sherwood gone as well but I dont need them to pop up with a pompous little statement. Fans are perfectly capable of expressing themselves without them.
Really?
This self appointed trust you speak of were elected by members & it is their role to hold the club and its employees to account on behalf of supporters....the pompous little statement asks everyone to behave with the dignity and decorum we expect of our club...what on earth is wrong with that?
In the stands we can cheer, jeer, boo & scream 'Sherwood out' as much as we want - the reality is those at the top will decide what they want when they want & asking them to do it correctly without embarrassing us further is the bare minimum.
It is most assuredly not their role.
I would sooner hear what Brigada or Dave or you and other fans have to say. Its all equally representative and valid. The bunch of fans who label themselves the trust are just that. Its something some fans want to do. Thats fine, lets not start giving them any kind of status above other fans though, they do not have any.
Not sure anyone is giving the trust status above others but what the trust does have is a membership list that shows that they are an elected representative body of a group of fans (membership is optional - not got a clue how many members)....& via this they have access to a voice with the club and will have a certain credence with the media.
20,000 of us could email Tom Fox, call the switchboard demanding Sherwood is given the boot & it will make no difference. If the trust statement and the fuss made by Collymore etc draws an official line out of the club all the better and be it back or sack we will all know where the club stands.
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I don't really see any infighting as such more a case of a manager getting his excuses in using his pals in the media and deflecting all blame from himself. The best way to stop any perceived 'infighting' is to get rid of Sherwood as quickly as possible.
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What infighting?
Only the pockets of 'handbags' that'll be dotted round the ground on Saturday as the inevitable 'I'm a better fan than you' diatribes begin.
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The purpose of the statement is to focus a few minds. The Trust having a standing with the club and are there to represent the views of the Supporters and work with the club to achieve the best outcomes for the good of its members and wider Villa fan base.
It isn't for them to say that Sherwood is a chancer, or Fox is an arse, but if the respective actions of both are not in the best interests of Aston Villa then it is fair order to point this out and ask that they shit or get off the pot for the wider good.
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The only mind that needs to focus is that of RL. Trouble is he's preoccupied by shiny baubles, pretty girls and helicopters.
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As I am given to understand it, Lerner has naff all to do with the daily running of the club now. It is very much the Tom Fox show.
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Whilst I wholeheartedly agree I'd like to challenge where the club have been leaking information? The only leaks I've seen or read have quite clearly come from the Manager. Can I be enlightened if I've got that wrong?
The stories about Sherwood only having two games to save his season (Moxley, Percy) appeared only a couple of days after reports in the London media that the players brought in (the French ones it seems) werent Sherwood's choice.
Poor form from both parties, dont think we will ever get definitive proof though re leaks.
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Whilst I wholeheartedly agree I'd like to challenge where the club have been leaking information? The only leaks I've seen or read have quite clearly come from the Manager. Can I be enlightened if I've got that wrong?
The stories about Sherwood only having two games to save his season (Moxley, Percy) appeared only a couple of days after reports in the London media that the players brought in (the French ones it seems) werent Sherwood's choice.
Poor form from both parties, dont think we will ever get definitive proof though re leaks.
Fair enough.
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Whilst I wholeheartedly agree I'd like to challenge where the club have been leaking information? The only leaks I've seen or read have quite clearly come from the Manager. Can I be enlightened if I've got that wrong?
The stories about Sherwood only having two games to save his season (Moxley, Percy) appeared only a couple of days after reports in the London media that the players brought in (the French ones it seems) werent Sherwood's choice.
Poor form from both parties, dont think we will ever get definitive proof though re leaks.
Gold Spotters Badge
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Whilst I wholeheartedly agree I'd like to challenge where the club have been leaking information? The only leaks I've seen or read have quite clearly come from the Manager. Can I be enlightened if I've got that wrong?
The stories about Sherwood only having two games to save his season (Moxley, Percy) appeared only a couple of days after reports in the London media that the players brought in (the French ones it seems) werent Sherwood's choice.
Poor form from both parties, dont think we will ever get definitive proof though re leaks.
Gold Spotters Badge
Seconded, well spotted.
That hadn't occurred to me. I thought at the time that both the 'two games' bit and Sherwood's 'not my players' things sounded a bit too detailed to be completely fictional, but I must admit, the timing of the two games one had passed me by.
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The only mind that needs to focus is that of RL. Trouble is he's preoccupied by shiny baubles, pretty girls and helicopters.
This is satire.
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We all bloody care!
Course we do! So do the fans who call themselves the supporters trust. I dont question that for a second. I just dont see why we should pay more attention to them than any other bunch of fans.
Isn't it more about opportunity? anyone can start a pressure group whereas the supporter's trust have built a relationship with the club (even if contrary to the status quo) and have started a meritocratic system for representation. To start anything again would be counter productive, surely?
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We all bloody care!
Course we do! So do the fans who call themselves the supporters trust. I dont question that for a second. I just dont see why we should pay more attention to them than any other bunch of fans.
Isn't it more about opportunity? anyone can start a pressure group whereas the supporter's trust have built a relationship with the club (even if contrary to the status quo) and have started a meritocratic system for representation. To start anything again would be counter productive, surely?
Fair do's. I was being a miserable bastard showing his anarchist streak again :)
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Be interesting if the club makes its own statement on current affairs, but I doubt they will. About time Lerner properly addressed his paying customers for the first time in nearly 10 years. He's never engaged at all with the supporters which I find odd.
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We all bloody care!
Course we do! So do the fans who call themselves the supporters trust. I dont question that for a second. I just dont see why we should pay more attention to them than any other bunch of fans.
Isn't it more about opportunity? anyone can start a pressure group whereas the supporter's trust have built a relationship with the club (even if contrary to the status quo) and have started a meritocratic system for representation. To start anything again would be counter productive, surely?
Fair do's. I was being a miserable bastard showing his anarchist streak again :)
We anarchists band together in time of mutaul need ciggies mate ;-)
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it's the speaking with a single clear voice of [some perceived] authority rather than the general background noise of "pissed off-ness" isnt it?
Having been a part of a very vocal group of my profession against Governmental cuts and restructuring you do attract the authority of being a collective [we became the main focal voice of the profession as opposed to our trade body] although, when the Government ploughed on regardless we managed to attract the brickbats of "outraged members" - never quite sure why it was our fault and not that of those in power making decisions...
The more focused criticism on the problems [both real and percieived] in the club the better. We long passed being a laughing stock and as a club have descended into a comedy that writes itself. We have done for a long time now. I despair of the way its run and the objectives it appears to have.
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As far as the infighting goes, I think the powers that be at VP could have nipped all the speculation in the bud. I mean, a vote of confidence would have gone a long way. Getting the General out in his wheelchair when I believe he severed his ties with the club is not the way to go. Fox or Learner should be making a statement or a decision. Doing nothing is disrespectful to all involved.
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Whilst I wholeheartedly agree I'd like to challenge where the club have been leaking information? The only leaks I've seen or read have quite clearly come from the Manager. Can I be enlightened if I've got that wrong?
The stories about Sherwood only having two games to save his season (Moxley, Percy) appeared only a couple of days after reports in the London media that the players brought in (the French ones it seems) werent Sherwood's choice.
Poor form from both parties, dont think we will ever get definitive proof though re leaks.
Gold Spotters Badge
Seconded, well spotted.
That hadn't occurred to me. I thought at the time that both the 'two games' bit and Sherwood's 'not my players' things sounded a bit too detailed to be completely fictional, but I must admit, the timing of the two games one had passed me by.
Its poor form, but it's the classic start of the end. Each side getting a round or two in. I thought he'd be gone this week, but I think he'll be gone irrespective of the result this weekend. Sherwood has clearly pissed off the Villa brass. If he did nothing else the one thing Lambert did pretty much until the end is toe the party line. He's come out with bollocks afterwards which is somewhat to be expected. I don't think Sherwood is cut from the same cloth and he'll go out guns blazing even if he doesn't clock on to the damage he might do himself career-wise down the road. Expect a very weird and spiky press conference and post match conference as he prepares to set sail away from B6 soon after.
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I think the General should have remembered his 'pigs' statement when he rushed out to defend Randy and the club should have avoided their dark arts to the press. We're not great with dealing with the press as it is.How they thought they could make this one work I have no idea.
Sherwood is creating such a shitstorm any potential manager must be thinking what the hell is going on at the club. He obviously knows he's going and wants to leave us with as much muck as he can. It's right up there with MON walking out 5 days before the season starts.
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Any reaction from the Club on this statement?
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It's oh so quiet...............
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Any reaction from the Club on this statement?
What sort of statement were you expecting?
"Now that a bunch of fans have said that they want us to do something, we've realised that yes, we probably should sack the manager. We'd like to thank them for giving us the heads up".
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The statement sounds fair to me. The speculation, whether made up or sourced from within, isn't very healthy in terms of club reputation or effect on the, manager, players and supporters. So a call to back him or sack him doesn't seem unreasonable. That said, I'd like to think the absence of any such commitment is a sign that behind the scenes the club are quietly sounding out potential replacements. Or the two games thing may be true and they don't want to show their hand either way. Hopefully a failure to win convincingly this weekend means Timbo Dimbo will be on his bike.