Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Tom_Mc9? on September 21, 2015, 09:52:44 AM
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I hope that this is premature, but we are woefully short up front. My friend who supports Blackburn says he can't see Gestede being anything more than an effective sub after 70 minutes or so; we need Ayew to improve; Kozak doesn't seem to be ready or wanted (take your pick) and Gabby is a spent force.
I can understand why we didn't go for Adebayor. Bad attitude shown throughout his career and not turning up to medicals at Villa doesn't a good sign of things to come make. Charlie Austin would appear to be the obvious choice, but there must be a reason why no Premier League club felt that his £15m price tag was worth paying.
Are there any players with exciting foreign names I've never heard of that would improve us? Should we have gone for Ings and tried to sell him first team football? Any suggestions?
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I remember reading a similar view about Benteke from fans of his former club - Blew hot and cold, was lazy and not interested, poor touch etc. He turned out to be (in my opinion) the best attacking player ive ever seen at Villa Park. Gestede and Ayew both look off the pace at the moment but lets give them a chance. We also need to develop play to work to their strengths.
Benteke now looks rubbish at Liverpool every time I see him play and id imagine there are probably similar threads on their forums (overhead worldie aside!)
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I agree give them a chance, but I think we need another striker on top of the two new players - I think Sherwood thought so too as he was trying to bring in the likes of Gayle and Adebayor. I haven't written off Gestede or Ayew yet (despite how it looks in the original post!)
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With the new, long overdue pragmatism at VP over player values you can be sure both Ayew and Gestede will be given time to at least preserve as much of their cost to us as possible. I don't think Adebayor or Berbatov were or are the answer. With hindsight I would have bundled up the Ayew and Gestede money, added Clark to the bundle and prised Berahino loose. He clearly hates the bitters as much as we do and may well given them the finger of departure.
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I mentioned elsewhere but Rondon looked value for money at £12m. Big, strong and powerful striker who looks like he knows what he's doing. He may soon be wondering what the hell he was doing signing for the Bitters though.
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Payet
Austin
The other Ayew
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Payet
Austin
The other Ayew
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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I don't regret not signing Austin. His attitude is all wrong, there's a reason why he's still at QPR.
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Too many clubs have swerved Austin to sign him with any degree of confidence. I think we have done the right thing to pass on him.
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Diego Costa!!!!
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Too early to judge, on two counts. 1. TS rightly or wrongly emphasised central midfield in his allocation of funds, so we need to see to what extent a strong MF including Gana/Toure/Veterout does to offset weaknesses in other areas. 2. far too early for all this 'we got the wrong Ayew' rubbish. We haven't see enough to judge any of the new signings properly.
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I think West Ham have recruited well (surprisingly). I can't say I've seen much of him but Bakary Sakho going to Palace on a free may have been worth a shout (although his wage demands were probably daft). We seem to have bought players that 'might' be great rather than being the finished article now. Perhaps in the long-term that will pay off but for now we are struggling and if things don't change soon we'll end up adrift at the bottom with Sunderland. We're second favourites for relegation at the bookies - they're not often wrong...
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I think West Ham have recruited well (surprisingly). I can't say I've seen much of him but Bakary Sakho going to Palace on a free may have been worth a shout (although his wage demands were probably daft). We seem to have bought players that 'might' be great rather than being the finished article now. Perhaps in the long-term that will pay off but for now we are struggling and if things don't change soon we'll end up adrift at the bottom with Sunderland. We're second favourites for relegation at the bookies - they're not often wrong...
It's been years since we've bought any ''finished articles''.
Player and manager wise we buy in to gambles or development projects wholesale, which are pretty much flip of the coin deals.
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Collymore was probably the last 'finished' article we bought. A complete waste of money in hindsight.
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Jordan Rhodes instead of Gestede?
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For me, the last player we bought that didn't feel like a gamble was Petrov. Although the change of league added some uncertainty.
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Payet
Austin
The other Ayew
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Well, by the very title this is a hindsight sort of thread!
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I think West Ham have recruited well (surprisingly). I can't say I've seen much of him but Bakary Sakho going to Palace on a free may have been worth a shout (although his wage demands were probably daft). We seem to have bought players that 'might' be great rather than being the finished article now. Perhaps in the long-term that will pay off but for now we are struggling and if things don't change soon we'll end up adrift at the bottom with Sunderland. We're second favourites for relegation at the bookies - they're not often wrong...
It's been years since we've bought any ''finished articles''.
The likes of Cole and Senderos look pretty finished to me.
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We needed a keeper. We still do.
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Messi, Ronaldo, Casillas,
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It was a mistake not strengthening up front.
Benteke's goals kept us alive last year. That doesn't mean we needed a direct like for like replacement, a carbon copy of him would be hard to find, if not impossible - after all, how many other people have those absurd micro-ears?
Ayew strikes me as a Weimann replacement and Gestede is a punt on someone who will give us another option up front.
It is very hard to see where the goals are going to come from for the rest of the season.
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It's clear that he wanted Adebayor, so why didn't we go out and get another in if he knew we would be a striker short? It's such a massive gamble looking at a player who's only ever scored goals in one season (Ayew) and a bloke who's done it in the Championship but no higher (Gestede).
We knew Gabby was finished, and he doesn't seem to rate Kozak. So it leaves us with fuck all. It's not hindsight either, most people from day 1 in August to the end of the window wanted/expected a Striker.
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It was a mistake not strengthening up front.
Benteke's goals kept us alive last year. That doesn't mean we needed a direct like for like replacement, a carbon copy of him would be hard to find, if not impossible - after all, how many other people have those absurd micro-ears?
Ayew strikes me as a Weimann replacement and Gestede is a punt on someone who will give us another option up front.
It is very hard to see where the goals are going to come from for the rest of the season.
Agree with that. We look a striker short and although we have Traore to come back, I think we are missing a bit of pace out wide as well.
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It's clear that he wanted Adebayor, so why didn't we go out and get another in if he knew we would be a striker short? It's such a massive gamble looking at a player who's only ever scored goals in one season (Ayew) and a bloke who's done it in the Championship but no higher (Gestede).
Whoever we signed was going to be a gamble one way or another or have a ceiling of how good they can be (Austin) as that is the market we have to operate within.
My preference at the time was Embolo [young striker likely to cost £15m ish i.e. off the top shelf of FM wonder-kids] and Adebeyor (as insurance, along with Gabby/Kozak) and as this never happened I will always be right in my mind.
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A lot of the talk pre-season was that we needed to replace Bentekes goals from all corners of the pitch rather than be reliant upon a new CF to carry the burden. It is evident that not only have we not signed a forward capable of scoring a few, we also haven't signed any goal scoring midfielders or any that create a sufficient number of chances for others.
No doubt we have an improved squad upon last season, but the goal scoring problem is as evident as it ever was.
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A lot of the talk pre-season was that we needed to replace Bentekes goals from all corners of the pitch rather than be reliant upon a new CF to carry the burden. It is evident that not only have we not signed a forward capable of scoring a few, we also haven't signed any goal scoring midfielders or any that create a sufficient number of chances for others.
No doubt we have an improved squad upon last season, but the goal scoring problem is as evident as it ever was.
Hypothetically we have though, in the form of Veretout and Adama, though they'll not yield immediate rewards which I suppose is your point. Also, in saying that, I think a lot of us expected part of it to be fulfilled by in-house options like Grealish, Gil, Sinclair, Kozak, Westwood and Gardner (the latter three being more hopeful than anything and so far done about as much as we realistically thought.)
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Austin
Barry
Matt Phillips
Heaton
Westwood might actually be a decent option from the bench if we ever find ourselves winning a game in the latter stages again. An extra body who is neat neat and tidy, and can keep possession ticking over. But he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter. Midfield sets the tempo, and he is rarely -if ever- been a player in there who can make a difference for us. In the past, you would say if Cowans, Townsend, Barry or even Draper played well, the Villa would play well. That applies to Stan too, who was closer to Westwood in style. He's a poor man's Petrov, and that is one of the reasons why we have been a poorer team over the past three years.
We signed two keepers in summer, but neither of them seem capable of pushing Guzan for a first team spot, so I don't see the point. Though I accept the lad signed from Belgium is more of a long-term project at his age.
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I remember reading a similar view about Benteke from fans of his former club - Blew hot and cold, was lazy and not interested, poor touch etc. He turned out to be (in my opinion) the best attacking player ive ever seen at Villa Park. Gestede and Ayew both look off the pace at the moment but lets give them a chance. We also need to develop play to work to their strengths.
Benteke now looks rubbish at Liverpool every time I see him play and id imagine there are probably similar threads on their forums (overhead worldie aside!)
You can usually tell within minutes as to whether a play has got 'it' or not. By way of example, I was so underwhelmed when we signed Withe, but seeing him play his first home you could instantly see he had what was needed.
In my opinion Gestede and Ayew are never going to amount to anything. They are not off the pace, unfortunately they are not good enough. There's no pint in trying to get a team built around them.
The option we should be trying is Kozak. He has got something.
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We did go for Adebeyor but he's a cock socket and wanted a sign from god..Maybe god does exist?
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A lot of the talk pre-season was that we needed to replace Bentekes goals from all corners of the pitch rather than be reliant upon a new CF to carry the burden. It is evident that not only have we not signed a forward capable of scoring a few, we also haven't signed any goal scoring midfielders or any that create a sufficient number of chances for others.
No doubt we have an improved squad upon last season, but the goal scoring problem is as evident as it ever was.
I suppose the signing of sinclair and his 5 goals doesn't count.
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Jordan Rhodes instead of Gestede?
We'd already filled our Jordan quota.
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I remember reading a similar view about Benteke from fans of his former club - Blew hot and cold, was lazy and not interested, poor touch etc. He turned out to be (in my opinion) the best attacking player ive ever seen at Villa Park. Gestede and Ayew both look off the pace at the moment but lets give them a chance. We also need to develop play to work to their strengths.
Benteke now looks rubbish at Liverpool every time I see him play and id imagine there are probably similar threads on their forums (overhead worldie aside!)
You can usually tell within minutes as to whether a play has got 'it' or not. By way of example, I was so underwhelmed when we signed Withe, but seeing him play his first home you could instantly see he had what was needed.
In my opinion Gestede and Ayew are never going to amount to anything. They are not off the pace, unfortunately they are not good enough. There's no pint in trying to get a team built around them.
The option we should be trying is Kozak. He has got something.
Well I agree on Kozak but I think your opinion on whether they have "got it" is quite black and white. There are loads of variables that alter how strikers perform - type and number of chances they are getting, match fitness, niggling injuries, keenness to impress, confidence in front of goal, weight of burden that is put on them etc. Look at the strikers that have been signed into the league over the last couple of years who have looked rubbish but been brilliant at other clubs - Bony, Falcao, Benteke, Di Maria, Carroll, Adebayor, Soldado. My point is, its your opinion so it cant be wrong, but we have got a highly paid scouting network in place who have done the research on these two and convinced our executive board to fork out the best part of £20m on them. These were not deadline day panic buys due to others falling through so they must have something.
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I take your point about the strikers you mention looking good at one club and less so at others - therefore performance is influenced by a number of factors apart from straightforward ability.
But I really can't seen nothing from Ayew or Gestede that gives me any hope.
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The manager has bought these players and its up to him to get them playing together in the right system to suit all. Upping the tempo would be a start, I don't think you can write off individual players yet except maybe Gabby who has been largely poor for 4 years under different managers. I also think Traore will make a big difference, and it could just be a case of finding which striker works best with him. That bit of extra service could turn an underwhelming Ayew or Gestede into a regular goal scorer. What I will say though is at the moment, looking forwards rather than backwards, a striker looks like the thing to look at in January.
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Ayew looked worse than Agbonlahor when he played, which is some going.
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I am disturbed at how bad Ayew looks. He looks like he's playing with buckets on his feet.
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a top striker to replace the one going out, and a couple more to replace Bent, Weimann, Gabby and Kozak
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I take your point about the strikers you mention looking good at one club and less so at others - therefore performance is influenced by a number of factors apart from straightforward ability.
But I really can't seen nothing from Ayew or Gestede that gives me any hope.
If im completely grasping at straws, Gestedes headed goal looked like he could do that with his eyes closed. He has also had a couple of really good snap shots that have gone the wrong side of the post but have shown a promising strikers instinct. But being honest, I tend to agree so far, im really scraping the barrel. In the same time, Andre Ayew has scored 3, got a couple of assists and been voted player of the month which really puts it into persepctive. On the other hand Jordan Ayew has looked completely lost - Ive seen absolutely nothing from him so far. He did however score a really nice goal in international football a couple of weeks back.
Hopefully at least one of them will prove you wrong, starting tomorrow. didnt Gestede score like 5 against Blose last season?!
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Ayew looked worse than Agbonlahor when he played, which is some going.
Shit and Shitter
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Out of interest, when does Robinson's loan end? He can finish and moves well?
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A lot of the talk pre-season was that we needed to replace Bentekes goals from all corners of the pitch rather than be reliant upon a new CF to carry the burden. It is evident that not only have we not signed a forward capable of scoring a few, we also haven't signed any goal scoring midfielders or any that create a sufficient number of chances for others.
No doubt we have an improved squad upon last season, but the goal scoring problem is as evident as it ever was.
I suppose the signing of sinclair and his 5 goals doesn't count.
I'm not writing off Sinclair...he scored 5 goals in 2 games against Notts County and Sunderland...but that doesn't mean he's the answer to our problems by any stretch of the imagination particularly when he's been largely invisible against Leicester and Baggies.
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The manager didn't buy the players paddy reilly bought the players the same man whos been dishing all the 5 year contracts out. The sooner he is found out and we get rid of the better. The same man who left Liverpool with all the crap they are still trying to get rid of . The same man who signed sissoko not once but twice.
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The manager didn't buy the players paddy reilly bought the players the same man whos been dishing all the 5 year contracts out. The sooner he is found out and we get rid of the better. The same man who left Liverpool with all the crap they are still trying to get rid of . The same man who signed sissoko not once but twice.
I see......so Paddy Reilly is in fact the Team Manager. A bet a lot of posters on this site didn't know that!
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The manager didn't buy the players paddy reilly bought the players the same man whos been dishing all the 5 year contracts out. The sooner he is found out and we get rid of the better. The same man who left Liverpool with all the crap they are still trying to get rid of . The same man who signed sissoko not once but twice.
Paddy Reilly only came back to us in November so we'd already signed Cissokho.
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The manager didn't buy the players paddy reilly bought the players the same man whos been dishing all the 5 year contracts out. The sooner he is found out and we get rid of the better. The same man who left Liverpool with all the crap they are still trying to get rid of . The same man who signed sissoko not once but twice.
I see......so Paddy Reilly is in fact the Team Manager. A bet a lot of posters on this site didn't know that!
It's pretty rare these days that a manager scouts, identifies and buys a player.
Paddy Reilly is the Director Of Recruitment - I can't imagine that anybody is being brought in without Sherwood's say-so, but I'd be surprised if the manager was the one spending his time last season taking in Lorient and Nice games to identify our new signings.
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Ayew is making Balaban look like Ronaldo so far
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We needed a keeper. We still do.
to be fair that was one Sherwood had right from the start, Guzan will need dropping sooner rather than later and Bunn is nowhere near first team standard.
Szczesny was available in the summer and maybe should have come in
While the likes of Ayew may need more time, I'm happy to write off Lescott already
Looks like he is pulling a train, our eyes werent deceiving us in the cup tie last year I'm afraid
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He came back in September 2014. No im not saying he is team manager im saying he has a lot more to do with the signings than people think.
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Ayew is making Balaban look like Ronaldo so far
Not even David Cameron playing football whilst pleasuring a pig's head could make Balaban look any better than Balaban. He defined shite.
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He came back in September 2014. No im not saying he is team manager im saying he has a lot more to do with the signings than people think.
Whether it was Sept or Nov, he still didn't sign Cissokho for us.
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Ayew is making Balaban look like Ronaldo so far
Not even David Cameron playing football whilst pleasuring a pig's head could make Balaban look any better than Balaban. He defined shite.
Ayew looks worse if that's possible.
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Ayew is making Balaban look like Ronaldo so far
Not even David Cameron playing football whilst pleasuring a pig's head could make Balaban look any better than Balaban. He defined shite.
Ayew looks worse if that's possible.
No he doesn't. That's just hyperbole. None of us playing for the first team could make Balaban look like Ronaldo as the only thing Balaban did was be shit.
Ayew has so far been as ineffective as Balaban was, and that's it.
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Hindsight....
Adebayor and Austin.
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Praet was heavily linked, & colleagues out there say he would have been super for us.