Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: boboonthecorner on August 04, 2015, 06:10:34 PM

Title: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: boboonthecorner on August 04, 2015, 06:10:34 PM
I'm excited for the upcoming season but this is an interesting read with regards to the signing of our French contingent!

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/tactics-and-analysis/67/post/2547839/in-the-premier-league-aston-villa-cant-be-much-worse?

Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: CT on August 04, 2015, 06:19:29 PM
Paul Lambert. "Overly technical".

Fabian Delph. "A gigantic loss".

Not sure which is more laughable.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: aj2k77 on August 04, 2015, 06:20:33 PM
When can the myth stop that we've lost 4/5 key players?
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: boboonthecorner on August 04, 2015, 06:25:50 PM
When can the myth stop that we've lost 4/5 key players?

I dont think we've lost 4/5 but without Bentekes goals, Delph and Vlaar its questionable whether we wouldve survived? Hard to prove one way or the other though.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: aj2k77 on August 04, 2015, 06:28:24 PM
When can the myth stop that we've lost 4/5 key players?

I dont think we've lost 4/5 but without Bentekes goals, Delph and Vlaar its questionable whether we wouldve survived? Hard to prove one way or the other though.

Benteke is a huge loss, but we are never going to be able to replace him, we've got to get the rest of the team functioning so we aren't a one man team (which we were, let's be honest).

Delph, good player, replaceable. Vlaar, insignificant if he is always out. Cleverley, rubbish for 85% of the season and got a good booing for parts of it. I've even heard Given mentioned as a big loss, ffs, he's played about 10 games in two years.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: boboonthecorner on August 04, 2015, 06:30:47 PM
When can the myth stop that we've lost 4/5 key players?

I dont think we've lost 4/5 but without Bentekes goals, Delph and Vlaar its questionable whether we wouldve survived? Hard to prove one way or the other though.

Benteke is a huge loss, but we are never going to be able to replace him, we've got to get the rest of the team functioning so we aren't a one man team (which we were, let's be honest).

Delph, good player, replaceable. Vlaar, insignificant if he is always out. Cleverley, rubbish for 85% of the season and got a good booing for parts of it. I've even heard Given mentioned as a big loss, ffs, he's played about 10 games in two years.

As I said an easy comment to make now the season is finished, imposssible to prove one way or the other.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 04, 2015, 06:53:45 PM
Right now, nobody knows anything, whether it be the new signings or Sherwood's ability. The big difference is, before a ball is kicked, we have hope and I'd imagine for the first time in a long time, the vast majority are looking forward to the new season.

As for the players we've lost, only Benteke is a real big loss. Delph was good but rarely ever turned up for a full game. Cleverly rarely turned up for a game. As for Vlaar, he was turning into a liability and won't be missed.

Reading these articles, you do wonder what these journalists know about football beyond the top 4. I've just seen the Guardian lot are predicting Stoke to finish 7th. As all teams outside the top 6 are a bit shit, we have just as much a chance as anybody. Hopefully we'll surprise at lot of these tossers but frankly I could care more.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: boboonthecorner on August 04, 2015, 07:23:56 PM
Right now, nobody knows anything, whether it be the new signings or Sherwood's ability. The big difference is, before a ball is kicked, we have hope and I'd imagine for the first time in a long time, the vast majority are looking forward to the new season.

As for the players we've lost, only Benteke is a real big loss. Delph was good but rarely ever turned up for a full game. Cleverly rarely turned up for a game. As for Vlaar, he was turning into a liability and won't be missed.

Reading these articles, you do wonder what these journalists know about football beyond the top 4. I've just seen the Guardian lot are predicting Stoke to finish 7th. As all teams outside the top 6 are a bit shit, we have just as much a chance as anybody. Hopefully we'll surprise at lot of these tossers but frankly I could care more.

He seemed to be making plenty of worthwhile statements regarding the quality of the French league and I don't think he was in anyway being overly critical of Villa. I think we've made some very exciting signings but a top 12 finish would be a huge stride in my opinion. Im all for the optimism just think we should be patient and not expect too much too soon.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: David_Nab on August 04, 2015, 07:29:04 PM
When can the myth stop that we've lost 4/5 key players?

I dont think we've lost 4/5 but without Bentekes goals, Delph and Vlaar its questionable whether we wouldve survived? Hard to prove one way or the other though.

Benteke is a huge loss, but we are never going to be able to replace him, we've got to get the rest of the team functioning so we aren't a one man team (which we were, let's be honest).

Delph, good player, replaceable. Vlaar, insignificant if he is always out. Cleverley, rubbish for 85% of the season and got a good booing for parts of it. I've even heard Given mentioned as a big loss, ffs, he's played about 10 games in two years.

I have seen it written that we lost our first choice keeper , he started like what 5 games at the end of the season following 2 years of not evening being on the bench ..we didn't lose him we let a high wage earner who was in the twilight of his career leave to use the funds elsewhere.


Benteke is the only irreplaceable one to have left.Fab was good but Gueye looks a good replacement.Cleverly was shit until TS took over and Vlaar not only was he injured most of the time some of his defending (Stoke /Southampton) was appalling.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 04, 2015, 07:32:49 PM
I thought that was a pretty fair write up to be honest, the crux of it being that the squad is full of 'ifs and but'.  If we get off to a good start and the squad begins on an upward trajectory we could improve quickly.  On the flip side we do not know much about the character of most of the players, especially the new ones, so it is an unknown what will happen if we start badly.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 04, 2015, 07:42:05 PM
The loss of 4 key players line is laughable though. Vlaar and cleverley key players? You what son?
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 04, 2015, 07:50:54 PM
Also, to talk about young players stepping up and ignore Clark is equally criminal.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: KRS on August 04, 2015, 07:58:31 PM
I'm happy for the media to right us off. Its a bit disrespectful to our new players but they do need to gel and show that the faith that TS has put in them wasn't misplaced.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 04, 2015, 08:01:59 PM
The loss of 4 key players line is laughable though. Vlaar and cleverley key players? You what son?

I think they mean "key" in the sense that they played a lot of games for us (when available), which they did.  Whether they'd be key players in better teams, or whether they're replaceable is (very) debatable.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: boboonthecorner on August 04, 2015, 08:22:07 PM
Also, to talk about young players stepping up and ignore Clark is equally criminal.

Towards the end of the season people wouldve been happy for Cleverley to stay and how much longer is Clark going to be regrded as a young player. He's 26 next month......
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 04, 2015, 09:36:04 PM
The loss of 4 key players line is laughable though. Vlaar and cleverley key players? You what son?

I think they mean "key" in the sense that they played a lot of games for us (when available), which they did.  Whether they'd be key players in better teams, or whether they're replaceable is (very) debatable.

But even then vlaar didn't play that many games, was injured for a lot of the ones he played and only showed flashes of his best. I'm not saying he wasn't, injuries aside, among the best squad members. But that's not what the article says, it says he's key and suggests his loss will directly hurt our chances next season, which I don't think is true.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 04, 2015, 09:38:50 PM
Also, to talk about young players stepping up and ignore Clark is equally criminal.

Towards the end of the season people wouldve been happy for Cleverley to stay and how much longer is Clark going to be regrded as a young player. He's 26 next month......

Cleverley had as many terrible games as good ones for us. I wasn't bothered when he buggered off.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: silhillvilla on August 04, 2015, 09:46:48 PM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Matt Collins on August 04, 2015, 09:48:43 PM
The loss of 4 key players line is laughable though. Vlaar and cleverley key players? You what son?

Well we won a very limited number of games last year and id say they were both reasonably key in a good chunk of those wins
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 04, 2015, 09:54:44 PM
But we also lost a lot of games they all played in. My point is that if those 4 players (the spine of the team) were good/key to extent that losing them would put us in jeopardy next season then we wouldn't have been so shit for most of last season. And therefore replacing them with well regarded French players isn't the wild punt that is implied.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: silhillvilla on August 04, 2015, 09:59:43 PM
But we also lost a lot of games they all played in. My point is that if those 4 players (the spine of the team) were good/key to extent that losing them would put us in jeopardy next season then we wouldn't have been so shit for most of last season. And therefore replacing them with well regarded French players isn't the wild punt that is implied.
Indeed and the way we ended last season including the final (certainly post the 2nd goal) suggested they were already gone .
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2015, 10:03:19 PM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

Yep, especially the media outlets whose knowledge and interest is concentrated on teams in London, Manchester and Liverpool. 
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Damo70 on August 05, 2015, 08:47:52 AM
The truth is you have to be very poor to go down. Sunderland and ourselves are proof of that. We even had a mid season break from scoring goals and winning points and got away with it.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 05, 2015, 08:49:17 AM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

We finished 17th and got blootered 4-0 in the Final, so just how good were those five players? I'll say, Benteke aside, the answer is "not very".
So considering Delph and Benteke were off anyway, what have we lost by replacing just about the entire team with what, in general, looks like quite an exciting bunch of new players? We may well go down if they don't gel or Sherwood is found out, but many pundits have been predicting that for the past three seasons anyway.
 Same as I said in another thread, we had nothing to lose, may as well enjoy the ride!
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Clampy on August 05, 2015, 08:56:41 AM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

Which 5 best players are these?
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: saunders_heroes on August 05, 2015, 09:01:00 AM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

Which 5 best players are these?

Doesn't take a genius to work out 4 of them. Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley. The 5th is probably Given, but he's not too much of a miss in reality.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dave on August 05, 2015, 09:09:25 AM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

Which 5 best players are these?

Doesn't take a genius to work out 4 of them. Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley. The 5th is probably Given, but he's not too much of a miss in reality.

You're probably right, but if so then it's difficult to take seriously a post suggesting that Given was amongst our "best players".

If he were and we thought he were going to be missed, he wouldn't have been pushed towards the door marked "do one" at the first available opportunity.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Risso on August 05, 2015, 09:11:09 AM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

We finished 17th and got blootered 4-0 in the Final, so just how good were those five players? I'll say, Benteke aside, the answer is "not very".
So considering Delph and Benteke were off anyway, what have we lost by replacing just about the entire team with what, in general, looks like quite an exciting bunch of new players? We may well go down if they don't gel or Sherwood is found out, but many pundits have been predicting that for the past three seasons anyway.
 Same as I said in another thread, we had nothing to lose, may as well enjoy the ride!

 I agree with Dave, it's exciting so let's just enjoy it.  FWIW though, I think we're better now in every single department on the pitch, we just need it to gel fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Gregorys Boy on August 05, 2015, 10:28:41 AM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

Which 5 best players are these?

Doesn't take a genius to work out 4 of them. Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley. The 5th is probably Given, but he's not too much of a miss in reality.

You're probably right, but if so then it's difficult to take seriously a post suggesting that Given was amongst our "best players".

If he were and we thought he were going to be missed, he wouldn't have been pushed towards the door marked "do one" at the first available opportunity.

But that's no sort of argument because that is just assuming that Sherwood was right to get rid of Given, news flash managers do make wrong calls.  I accept that Shey is past his best but I still think he was worth keeping for another year as back up keeper, instead we're taking a gamble on an unknown in Bunn. 

To lose the sort of players we have and to try and replace them with players who might be good either now or the future or might take time adjusting etc.. is a big gamble.  I understand that Sherwood is limited money wise but I still think he could have gone for some players who know English Football better.

One thing I think should improve this season is the home form because Sherwood should really play on getting the players up when there is a big crowd and sending them out more positive than for most of last season.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: saunders_heroes on August 05, 2015, 10:33:50 AM
Still think we need a centreback in. A big commanding centreback who dominates in the air. I know that's easier said than done, but I don't trust either Baker, Okore or Clark, and Richards is injury prone. Once we sign one I can relax a bit, but until then the defence still worries me.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Gregorys Boy on August 05, 2015, 10:38:14 AM
Still think we need a centreback in. A big commanding centreback who dominates in the air. I know that's easier said than done, but I don't trust either Baker, Okore or Clark, and Richards is injury prone. Once we sign one I can relax a bit, but until then the defence still worries me.

Not either Okore? I thought he played really well last season and he is the one out them who I expect to step up.  The defence does not convince me at all though.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: tomd2103 on August 05, 2015, 10:38:32 AM
The truth is you have to be very poor to go down. Sunderland and ourselves are proof of that. We even had a mid season break from scoring goals and winning points and got away with it.

To be honest, we will have to be pretty awful to be worse than the three promoted teams, Sunderland and Leicester this season.  That's before you even consider the likes of Newcastle, West Ham and the Albion. 
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 05, 2015, 12:03:51 PM
The truth is you have to be very poor to go down. Sunderland and ourselves are proof of that. We even had a mid season break from scoring goals and winning points and got away with it.

To be honest, we will have to be pretty awful to be worse than the three promoted teams, Sunderland and Leicester this season.  That's before you even consider the likes of Newcastle, West Ham and the Albion. 

I haven't read the article, but if the title of this thread is the title of the article, then it is clearly true.

Any worse than we were last season & we'll go down. We've just pushed it as far as we can, we can't be doing that again.

I read something the other day - one of the papers, probably - saying how we'd lost the spine of the team.

In that "spine", they'd included Given. That's the ageing second choice keeper who got brought in for a few games at the end of the season. Part of the spine of the team? Hmmm.

I'm relaxed about not having Vlaar, too. He is another one who was the spine of nothing - you can't be that important a player to the club AND have that kind of injury record.I would probably have kept him, but that was really almost entirely along the lines of "easier than wasting time recruiting a new CB".

The two big losses that need to be replaced are Delph and Benteke. The midfield acquisitions make me feel pretty comfortable about him going. The Benteke "replacement" (using that word in the sense that we need to score goals), I am concerned about.

Gestede and Kozak might both turn out to be amazing, but one has never played (bar a few sub apps) in this league, and the other one is really only just back from a terrible injury. I like Kozak a lot, but would I rely on him to score the goals? No.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dave on August 05, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

Which 5 best players are these?

Doesn't take a genius to work out 4 of them. Benteke, Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley. The 5th is probably Given, but he's not too much of a miss in reality.

You're probably right, but if so then it's difficult to take seriously a post suggesting that Given was amongst our "best players".

If he were and we thought he were going to be missed, he wouldn't have been pushed towards the door marked "do one" at the first available opportunity.

But that's no sort of argument because that is just assuming that Sherwood was right to get rid of Given, news flash managers do make wrong calls.
They do, but in this case he quite clearly hasn't.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 05, 2015, 12:50:45 PM
It's also factually incorrect to suggest Given was one of our key players last season and smacks of this article only basing the analysis on the last two months of the season. Let's not forget we also started last season well, relying on entirely different "key players", like Hutton.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 05, 2015, 01:57:53 PM
I thought that was a pretty fair write up to be honest, the crux of it being that the squad is full of 'ifs and but'.  If we get off to a good start and the squad begins on an upward trajectory we could improve quickly.  On the flip side we do not know much about the character of most of the players, especially the new ones, so it is an unknown what will happen if we start badly.
I agree with this,we have had to gamble on exciting but untried talent.
Benteke Vlaar and Delph are a huge loss, I think we need a decent start to the season or things could go wrong pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Vegas on August 05, 2015, 02:32:31 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but I'm taking a lot less offence at this article than most of us.

Can't afford to be much worse? Obviously true. Lost key players? Obviously true. Sherwood has brought in a collection of players unproven at premier league level? Obviously true.

As fans it's the most exciting close season for bloody ages, and massive credit to the club and Sherwood for giving us belief again, but I can totally see why neutrals would see us as a relagation risk. 

I think we'll be alright and finish around 12-13th, but it could clearly be a lot better or worse than that.

Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 05, 2015, 02:47:20 PM
I'm not offended by it. Just an annoyingly half informed article dressed up as being highly insightful with its talk of Ligue 1 stats and what not.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 05, 2015, 02:52:25 PM
Still think we need a centreback in. A big commanding centreback who dominates in the air. I know that's easier said than done, but I don't trust either Baker, Okore or Clark, and Richards is injury prone. Once we sign one I can relax a bit, but until then the defence still worries me.

Not either Okore? I thought he played really well last season and he is the one out them who I expect to step up.  The defence does not convince me at all though.

My worry about signing a CB is that any new player would block the progress of either Okore/Clark.  Furthermore, if the Stones figures are any sort of benchmark, we would have to spend north of £10m to get a player who is guaranteed to be better.  I think we're better off keeping the money and coaching the arse off the players.

On a slight tangent, I watched a documentary about Team Sky/Froome the other day, and to paraphrase one of the key points, 'they (Sky) discovered that overall the team is better off by spending $800k on a rider and $200k on coaching, rather than $1m on one rider.'  Thankfully Villa appear to be adopting a strategy more aligned to this than the 'bibs and 'cones' which we have suffered recently.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: PeterWithe on August 05, 2015, 02:57:20 PM
Youd think coaching a pushiron rider would be pretty simple, and cheap. Pedal up that hill as fast as you can and when you get to the top keep padalling, no shopping to go in a basket and no backies.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: enigma on August 05, 2015, 11:06:16 PM
Whenever an article appears that doesn't kiss our arses people always get huffy and pedantically pull it apart. I happen to agree with most of what he says. The broad thrust of it is correct, even if I am more optimistic than at any point in the last few years.

I also quite like that journalist. He's actually one of the better ones. There's nothing too insightful in that one piece but generally he knows what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 05, 2015, 11:39:42 PM
5 of our best players have gone (started cup final ) , that's what the media will look at and comment on mostly.

We finished 17th and got blootered 4-0 in the Final, so just how good were those five players? I'll say, Benteke aside, the answer is "not very".
So considering Delph and Benteke were off anyway, what have we lost by replacing just about the entire team with what, in general, looks like quite an exciting bunch of new players? We may well go down if they don't gel or Sherwood is found out, but many pundits have been predicting that for the past three seasons anyway.
 Same as I said in another thread, we had nothing to lose, may as well enjoy the ride!

 I agree with Dave, it's exciting so let's just enjoy it.  FWIW though, I think we're better now in every single department on the pitch, we just need it to gel fairly quickly.

Count me in. I can't be arsed with being nervous or miserable now. I have no idea how this will end up but feel we are much stronger as a group than last season. We could have a super season and I'd rather think that way than shitting myself before the first ball is kicked. The PL is full of surprises and we could be this seasons Southampton who essentially rose from nowhere in the last 2 seasons to being considered top six potential. Or even Swansea. Everton weren't that far ahead of us either. There's a gap but it's not insurmountable.

Ask me again in March when possibly my glass of hope isn't just empty it's been smashed to pieces and the shards of despair cut deep into my bare feet. But right now I will live in hope and optimism that this is the season we wake out of our hibernation.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dave on August 05, 2015, 11:44:54 PM
I'm not offended by it. Just an annoyingly half informed article dressed up as being highly insightful with its talk of Ligue 1 stats and what not.
I'd be interested to know which bits you feel aren't fully informed.

As enigma says, Michael Cox isn't some dimwitted transfer-rumour-churner, or Robbie Savage-style "any opinion is fine as long as it's loud" type.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: silhillvilla on August 05, 2015, 11:52:58 PM
As long as we can replace Bentekes goals we will be fine. There's also the incentive of a new hero to emerge which was virtually impossible with Benteke around and our whole game geared around him.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: themossman on August 06, 2015, 10:56:13 AM
I'm not offended by it. Just an annoyingly half informed article dressed up as being highly insightful with its talk of Ligue 1 stats and what not.
I'd be interested to know which bits you feel aren't fully informed.

As enigma says, Michael Cox isn't some dimwitted transfer-rumour-churner, or Robbie Savage-style "any opinion is fine as long as it's loud" type.

I've read worse but it strikes me as very skewed by the end of the season, and the talk of Grealish and Westwood stepping up but no mention of Clark and Okore is off. Vlaar and Cleverley as "key players" is stretching it. Also, the point about attacking stats in the French league seems wilfully arse about face. You could argue that getting good numbers in an overly physical, defensive league is a plus not a minus.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Mister E on August 06, 2015, 12:18:32 PM
Nothing to get wound up by here.
It's not surprising many commentators have written us off - the trend analysis supports their view, we've had a huge change-around in player-personnel and TS is still an unproven manager. And, if we start badly they'll all feel totally vindicated.

Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 06, 2015, 12:21:39 PM
There's a lot of optimism, which isn't a bad thing - but a huge turn around of players, not all good - and a squad still full of poor players.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 06, 2015, 12:23:04 PM
Carles Gil playing a bigger role this season will be what makes the biggest difference.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Gregorys Boy on August 06, 2015, 02:18:13 PM
It's also factually incorrect to suggest Given was one of our key players last season and smacks of this article only basing the analysis on the last two months of the season. Let's not forget we also started last season well, relying on entirely different "key players", like Hutton.

Agree with this, also did we have any key players last season considering how bad it was for the most part? But Given did do a good job when called upon in the Cups and did well in the Final, he's worth keeping as back up for another season is all I'm saying.

Where this reminds me of the start of last season is that I don't know what to expect.  Squad wise I think we were better last year or at least the first eleven.  Its just that it was the manager who looked the main problem (which proved the case), but with the league being weak (which it is again) with the core of the side, and with me as one of the few still backing Lambert at the time then I was aiming for about 12th, whereas this time if we get 15th and look to be improving I will be happy.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: richard moore on August 06, 2015, 02:26:05 PM
Nothing to get wound up by here.
It's not surprising many commentators have written us off - the trend analysis supports their view, we've had a huge change-around in player-personnel and TS is still an unproven manager. And, if we start badly they'll all feel totally vindicated.



Most people I talk to, even quite knowledgeable football fans, have us to go down because they just see us as having got rid of our 'names' and they have almost no idea we've signed any replacements. When a friend went through all the 'good' players we had got rid of, I had to remind them that if we did indeed have five or six of those, we wouldn't have finished one place above the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Gregorys Boy on August 06, 2015, 02:33:42 PM
But this does remind me a lot of the start of Lambert's second season where he seemed to employ a scatter gun approach signing a series of unproven (at least in this country) over seas players, most of who went on to do very little.  The difference was we still had a core of a solid side to go along side them.  If a few of Sherwood's signings can hit the ground running then fair enough, but if they don't we don't really have those reliable players to fall back on. 
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Mister E on August 06, 2015, 10:01:01 PM
But this does remind me a lot of the start of Lambert's second season where he seemed to employ a scatter gun approach signing a series of unproven (at least in this country) over seas players, most of who went on to do very little.  The difference was we still had a core of a solid side to go along side them.  If a few of Sherwood's signings can hit the ground running then fair enough, but if they don't we don't really have those reliable players to fall back on. 
which is what the article was saying ...
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Dan England on August 06, 2015, 10:28:01 PM
But this does remind me a lot of the start of Lambert's second season where he seemed to employ a scatter gun approach signing a series of unproven (at least in this country) over seas players, most of who went on to do very little.  The difference was we still had a core of a solid side to go along side them.  If a few of Sherwood's signings can hit the ground running then fair enough, but if they don't we don't really have those reliable players to fall back on. 

But maybe the difference this time round is they have cost (are worth) several million each not several hundred thousand.

Either way it is a gamble but possibly this time round Sherwood is backing the shorter odds horse?
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: silhillvilla on August 06, 2015, 10:39:59 PM
The difference in the current strategy v Lambert era policy -

Gestede in lieu of Bowery
Ayew in lieu of Helenius
Gueye in lieu of Sylla
Vertout in lieu of Tonev
Amavi in lieu of Luna / Cissoko / Bennett
Bunn in lieu of Steer
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Pat McMahon on August 07, 2015, 12:30:48 AM
I have a French friend staying tonight and he is a Footie fan so has been telling me about our acquisitions from Ligue 1.

Ayew he actually rates, because he is unpredictable but reckons he will drive us mad with his inconsistency and tendency to live offside. He reckons Gueye will be really suited to the Premier league and is the best of our acquisitions. France's top division is quite defensive and dull and he said Nice's defence with Amavi was well below average - he reckons he is not great defensively. Surprisingly  to me, he said he hadn't noticed Veretout.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Gregorys Boy on August 07, 2015, 02:34:05 AM
The difference in the current strategy v Lambert era policy -

Gestede in lieu of Bowery
Ayew in lieu of Helenius
Gueye in lieu of Sylla
Vertout in lieu of Tonev
Amavi in lieu of Luna / Cissoko / Bennett
Bunn in lieu of Steer


Yeah but hindsight is a wonderful thing.  When Lambert signed those players we had no way of knowing that most would flop, just like we can't be sure how this bunch of recruits will do.  Even given that a few of them come with growing reputation that still does not mean that they will adjust to life in England, there have been a number of good players who have failed to adjust to our league over the years.  Only time will tell and I do think that considering who we've lost and need for a change at the club it is good that we have been pro-active in the transfer market and there does seem to be more of a game plan this time at least.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Matt Collins on August 07, 2015, 06:00:57 AM
Looks it's a fairly obvious point that if you are buying foreigners at £1m from Danish, Polish, French second division they're less likely to succeed than if you're buying them at £9m from Ligue 1. No guarantees but it's a completely different market

The slightly more comparable buys are benteke, Kozak, Sanchez, vlaar, okore - though most of them were quite a bit cheaper still.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Gregorys Boy on August 07, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
Looks it's a fairly obvious point that if you are buying foreigners at £1m from Danish, Polish, French second division they're less likely to succeed than if you're buying them at £9m from Ligue 1. No guarantees but it's a completely different market

The slightly more comparable buys are benteke, Kozak, Sanchez, vlaar, okore - though most of them were quite a bit cheaper still.

That's the funny thing because your post actually highlights than a lot of Lambert buys were actually very good its just that he couldn't manage them good enough when it came to game time.  I am willing to give this new look Sherwood squad a chance, in a way I have more question marks over him than them, but at least things are unlikely to get any worse than last season, and if we do finish two or three players higher then that has to be seen as a step forward.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Matt Collins on August 07, 2015, 02:59:35 PM
His buys were quite good when he spent a bit.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 07, 2015, 03:25:37 PM
As long as we can replace Bentekes goals we will be fine. There's also the incentive of a new hero to emerge which was virtually impossible with Benteke around and our whole game geared around him.

Typical Sillhillvilla, always so damn positive.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 07, 2015, 04:04:21 PM
Performances under Sherwood were around mid-table and arguably we've lost the three best players from that period. 

Sherwood didn't have many options and, in my opinion has executed the only strategy availble to him in terms of what he's brought in.  But (and it's a massive but), all of the new players are totally unproven.

For me, predicting how the season will pan out is impossible - anywhere from rock bottom to upper mid table seems possible. 

On that basis the article is fair and accurate.




Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: ozzjim on August 09, 2015, 02:32:36 AM
3 points on the board. A point a game from here and we are safe.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: robbo1874 on August 09, 2015, 04:11:53 AM
Still think we need a centreback in. A big commanding centreback who dominates in the air. I know that's easier said than done, but I don't trust either Baker, Okore or Clark, and Richards is injury prone. Once we sign one I can relax a bit, but until then the defence still worries me.

Not either Okore? I thought he played really well last season and he is the one out them who I expect to step up.  The defence does not convince me at all though.

My worry about signing a CB is that any new player would block the progress of either Okore/Clark.  Furthermore, if the Stones figures are any sort of benchmark, we would have to spend north of £10m to get a player who is guaranteed to be better.  I think we're better off keeping the money and coaching the arse off the players.

On a slight tangent, I watched a documentary about Team Sky/Froome the other day, and to paraphrase one of the key points, 'they (Sky) discovered that overall the team is better off by spending $800k on a rider and $200k on coaching, rather than $1m on one rider.'  Thankfully Villa appear to be adopting a strategy more aligned to this than the 'bibs and 'cones' which we have suffered recently.
if we have the money and the right players are available, sure bring a couple more in and let a couple go. I trust Sherwood if he thinks he needs a couple more or is happy with what we've done already. The key thing for me is they look to have made good progress off the pitch with the appointments. Wilkins was a weird one to me at the time, but I now think he will be a positive addition. If you're still going down the route of young talented, yet largely unproven players (in the prem at least) then it is vital to have experience there to bring them along. They've already exceeded my expectations in the first match. Thought we'd draw and concede at least one, so good work Villa.
Title: Re: Premier League - Aston Villa can't afford to be much worse this season
Post by: Villa in Denmark on August 09, 2015, 08:49:39 AM
3 points on the board. A point a game from here and we are safe.
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