Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Risso on April 25, 2015, 08:12:08 PM
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I realise that this may come across as a knee-jerk reaction to today's howler by Guzan, but I've actually felt that Brad has been below par for a long time now, and with Given performing well in the Cup, there's clearly a decision to be made. There are rumours that Sherwood is considering Shay for a first team recall, and personally I think it's long overdue. Given should never have been offered the ridiculous contract he was of course, but as with other members of the bomb squad who were ostracised for simply being on a lot of money, I think he deserves a chance to prove his worth again.
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Added a poll for you.
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All valid points Risso but I'd stick with Guzan. For me he is in that group of keepers just below the Courtois/Gea. Given would make mistakes too and I'm not sure it is worth risking losing Guzan when Given could retire at any point.
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Given.
I think Brad been way below his par this season. Shaky on crosses, slow to get across for a few. No one should be undropable and if someone's costing you points the next in line should come in.
I like Brad a lot but he's not had a good season.
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You play players on form and drop players if their form drops off too much. Keepers are no different. Given has looked cool as a cucumber in the cup games and played very well. He kept us in a couple of the games.
Guzan has been erratic since the turn of the year really. I think the first mistake was appalling and he was at fault for the other two goals, whilst his kicking was horrible all game.
For me Given should come in because he's looked more composed in his (albeit few) games. He's also got bags of experience on Guzan too and is a big character in the dressing room.
Guzan wasn't given a fair crack when he deserved to keep his place when he briefly came in for Given in Eck's season. Given got back from injury and came straight into the side.
I would drop Guzan, as much as anything to ensure he knows his place isn't cemented. He needs a bit of reflection time I think. If he's not playing well and Given is playing well in the cups, then there's only really one call Sherwood can make.
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I think Given has been a bit fortunate with the sides we have faced in the cups have not gone for his weakness. West Ham home or even Everton are not games that I would drop Guzan for Given. Southampton or Burnley maybe but Guzan is still the better keeper and although not as good as he deserves some faith. I can see why he could be dropped but think it would be harsh. Compared to Richardson and Bacuna at full back costing goals Guzan is a saint.
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Cheers Ped.
I can think of more games lately where Guzan has looked shaky than games where's he's made a difference by stopping something difficult, which is what he used to be good at. It used to be that I thought that Guzan was unlucky to be playing behind a succession of poor defences, but now I think he's one of the weaker players in the team, and one of the few not to have raised his game under Sherwood.
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Think we've see Given in goal next week, the mistake was inexcusable.
Would be ironic as Everton at home was the last league game Shay played for us.
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You play players on form and drop players if their form drops off too much. Keepers are no different. Given has looked cool as a cucumber in the cup games and played very well. He kept us in a couple of the games.
Guzan has been erratic since the turn of the year really. I think the first mistake was appalling and he was at fault for the other two goals, whilst his kicking was horrible all game.
For me Given should come in because he's looked more composed in his (albeit few) games. He's also got bags of experience on Guzan too and is a big character in the dressing room.
Guzan wasn't given a fair crack when he deserved to keep his place when he briefly came in for Given in Eck's season. Given got back from injury and came straight into the side.
I would drop Guzan, as much as anything to ensure he knows his place isn't cemented. He needs a bit of reflection time I think. If he's not playing well and Given is playing well in the cups, then there's only really one call Sherwood can make.
Good post. I agree. It doesn't mean Guzan should be bomb squaded or anything, but as you say, you drop players based on form. Its pretty black & white.
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Given for me
Brad has been poor for the past 3/4 months
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Every week in the prem would be to much for Given, he was dropped because he became a liability at times, and that was two season ago
Anyone thinking he would come in at the age of 39 and be a better keeper than Brad next season is of there rockers, absolutely nuts
If you think Brad is not good enough then we need another goalkeeper, because Given is not the long term answer
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Every week in the prem would be to much for Given, he was dropped because he became a liability at times, and that was two season ago
Anyone thinking he would come in at the age of 39 and be a better keeper than Brad next season is of there rockers, absolutely nuts
If you think Brad is not good enough then we need another goalkeeper, because Given is not the long term answer
I think the question is, would he be the better keeper against Everton rather than next season. A wee rest wouldn't hurt Brad.
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I'm assuming it's about who should start next week/rest of the season rather than next season.
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If Given was brought in against Everton and played well and kept his place for the season, should Brad play the final as we play our reserve keeper in the cups?
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I'm assuming it's about who should start next week/rest of the season rather than next season.
Fair enough,
I do think Sherwood has a decision to make, especially on how his blunder had affected him mentally
I still think Guzan is the better keeper but if his confidence is low it wouldn't be the worst thing giving him a rest
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I think that's the key, Sherwood and the coaches have got to decide whose head is in the right place right now. And I agree that Guzan is the better of the two but his confidence seems pretty low recently, especially with balls played back to him.
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Play the man in form. Simple.
I dont like this swapping for the cup malarky.
Id play Given next week
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Given won't let us down if we go with him next week. It also sends out a message that players need to be on their game and especially now. Mistakes like that in the heat of a relegation battle are killers.
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That was ridiculous. Get Given in.
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I think Sherwood should look closely to how Guzan reacts to his mistake, if his confidence takes a hit then he can be 'rested' however it would be a mistake to publicly chastise Guzan for a genuine mistake (rather than bad attitude etc).
Long, even medium term I see Guzan as the better keeper.
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I know its easy too make over the top reactions but that really was as bad as it gets from Brad, the worst thing is its been coming for a few months too, putting the full backs under pressure is never a good idea... Given in for me.
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He had a mare today, I wouldn't drop him he's been brilliant but given is a good keeper not the best on crosses though
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I'd still play Guzan next week with Lukaku on the horizon
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I'd still play Guzan next week with Lukaku on the horizon
Is Lukaku banned from VP then?
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I'd stick with Guzan, for now and the future.
If we do drop Guzan in the league, does that mean he automatically becomes our cup keeper and has to play in the final?
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I'd still play Guzan next week with Lukaku on the horizon
Is Lukaku banned from VP then?
I might be slow and thick right now but you've lost me Mr Shin
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I'd still play Guzan next week with Lukaku on the horizon
Is Lukaku banned from VP then?
I might be slow and thick right now but you've lost me Mr Shin
It was a shit joke about Lukaku on the horizon rather than the ptich.
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Given's lack of an all-round game means that it's difficult to muster full confidence in him. However, Guzan has been in regression for a good while now. There is no department he excels in, he doesn't even command the area/claim the ball particularly well anymore. So all things considered, I'd prefer Given because he'll at least pull off some very important saves.
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Given.
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I voted Given, but was wondering if this was a knee-jerk reaction to today's game. After all, Guzan was very good at Spurs. I suppose the issue is how quickly do you change it - after one bad game, or after a run of them? Problem is that right now we can't afford a run of bad games from our No.1.
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I'd give Shay a run, Guzan has looked ropey all season in my opinion.
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Another vote for Given.
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I'd still play Guzan next week with Lukaku on the horizon
Is Lukaku banned from VP then?
I might be slow and thick right now but you've lost me Mr Shin
It was a shit joke about Lukaku on the horizon rather than the ptich.
I liked it.
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It's not just the Enkleman esque fuck up, there was also the huge flap at a corner that should have cost us another goal in the first half.
Where as when he first got into the team he dominated the penalty area coming for just about everything and getting it, now he gives me the eeby jeebies.
It's a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other right now. Given might be tied to the goal line when crosses come in, but there's no way on earth he'd have cost us that first goal.
For what it's worth I've gone for Given for the rest of the season.
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but there's no way on earth he'd have cost us that first goal.
He nearly did the same thing in one of the cup games. But do think perhaps you are right wanting brad dropped.
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No surprise to me the minute Guzan comes back we look all at sea in defense. This is the first times hes been under pressure in 3 seasons from Shay and he clearly cant cope with it.
Given all the way for me. Today was the last straw with Guzan. He's utter rubbish.
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Not in a million years is he utter rubbish.
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I'd also give Given a run, but Guzan is one the reasons we're still in the PL after the last couple of seasons. He'll come back stronger.
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I don't think Guzan is looking too good on crosses recently. I'd rather have someone stay on the line as opposed to coming out and flapping. And actually in a couple of the cup games, Given hasn't been too bad in coming out and claiming crosses. He's looked fired up and he's looked intent on winning his place back. I know people go back to his poor start to Lambos first season, but for me that was less a case of him being way past his best, and more just a case of a drop in form. He deserved to be dropped then and Lambert in fairness did. By the same token, Given has looked good enough in the cups to warrant getting the nod now that Guzan's form has dropped.
In the last four months my stance has been that Guzan has been off the boil without making any huge errors. I felt he needed to find some consistency again and that he was walking that tightrope. An error like the one today is droppable offence for me. It's not out of the blue, it's a culmination of a generally bad run of form. He doesn't look as commanding on crosses. He's been poor at dealing with shots low and close and his kicking has been awful (even by his standards).
Guzan is still our number one and will be here for a few years to come, but we've got a quality back up in Given who is still more than good enough at this level, and his displays this season have been solid. Apart from anything he just seems very focused and composed, whereas Guzan is currently pretty erratic. If I had to bet now on who might cost us a place in the league between Guzan and Given, it would be Guzan.
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Guzan is not a very good goalie.
He`s brave, athletic and has excellent reflexes,
but his overall skill-sets are seriously deficient in key areas.
- He reads the game poorly and this negatively affect his line-leaving and similar decisions.
- His ball distribution is poor whether from kicking from hand or the ground.
- he is clumsy with the ball at his feet.
- despite a few world-class saves which saved or earned us points, he concedes far too
many 'stoppable' goals.
Much of his overall problem stems from believing that the goalie is the last line of defence rather than the first line of attack. I always had a goalie coach on my staff but the goalies did the same skill-drills as rest of the team,in addition to their specialised training.
These observations are not based on today`s game.
Norm.
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Given for the rest of the season for me & then I'd be looking at buying a new 1st choice keeper in the summer!
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Guzan is not a very good goalie.
He`s brave, athletic and has excellent reflexes,
but his overall skill-sets are seriously deficient in key areas.
- He reads the game poorly and this negatively affect his line-leaving and similar decisions.
- His ball distribution is poor whether from kicking from hand or the ground.
- he is clumsy with the ball at his feet.
- despite a few world-class saves which saved or earned us points, he concedes far too
many 'stoppable' goals.
Much of his overall problem stems from believing that the goalie is the last line of defence rather than the first line of attack. I always had a goalie coach on my staff but the goalies did the same skill-drills as rest of the team,in addition to their specialised training.
These observations are not based on today`s game.
Norm.
I agree, especially with the bit in bold.
I know changing keeper at this point is a risk, but I think I'd swap him for Given for the next match.
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I recall given was very lucky against Leicester with a bad clearance and the rebound went wide? Not convinced by given at all. Stick with guzan who has been one of our best performers in recent years.
I'm more worried about our centre backs and lack of replacements
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I recall given was very lucky against Leicester with a bad clearance and the rebound went wide? Not convinced by given at all. Stick with guzan who has been one of our best performers in recent years.
Quite. Guzan is a very good, if flawed goalkeeper.
Given is a competent goalkeeper.
I'd say stick with the very good one. Guzan shouldn't be dropped because he had a howler today, anymore than Benteke should be dropped because he missed a couple of great chances and couldn't stay onside.
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Last time we played in Manchester, De Gea dropped a clanger. I don't recall him getting dropped. It happens. I don't think it's exactly a regular occurrence as some are suggesting.
I'd play Guzan in the Final too as I reckon he'd be a better bet if it goes to penalties.
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I recall given was very lucky against Leicester with a bad clearance and the rebound went wide? Not convinced by given at all. Stick with guzan who has been one of our best performers in recent years.
Quite. Guzan is a very good, if flawed goalkeeper.
Given is a competent goalkeeper.
I'd say stick with the very good one. Guzan shouldn't be dropped because he had a howler today, anymore than Benteke should be dropped because he missed a couple of great chances and couldn't stay onside.
The huge difference there is that Benteke has been in superb form and one miss doesn't change that Guzan has been in poor form, and his dismal display today just put the hat on that. A lot of places were carrying the story that Sherwood was thinking of replacing him with Given anyway, I bet he wishes he had now.
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I'd be talking to the CB o find put which keeper they have most confidence in right now. That relationship, and the quality of communications coming from the keeper, is critical. At the moment I'm not sure Guzan is inspiring confidence.
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we have to remember that Given had a number of really bad games when he was starting for us. We were horrible at defending crosses and he didn't command the box very well. He stays on his line more than he should too. So while Guzan deserves criticism for today Given wasn't exactly superb as our starting keeper. For me it won't be a shock if Guzan keeps his place or Given is provided with the opportunity next week. I'm leaning towards Sherwood having a quiet chat with him and playing him again.
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We all widely agreed that had Guzan played the Bradford semi we would have likely gone through. I think some decent displays have rose tinted the memories of Given. I will agree on the point picked up by Paulie, Guzan doesn't save some that I expect him too. I think that we could well see Sherwood go for his own keeper come the summer. But in fairness most top keepers have rough patches. Tim Howard was woeful for some of last season according to Everton fans, Hart was publicly dropped. Delph Gea still has big mistakes in him. I think Guzan has earnt a bit of an arm and a confidence boost.
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I'd be talking to the CB o find put which keeper they have most confidence in right now. That relationship, and the quality of communications coming from the keeper, is critical. At the moment I'm not sure Guzan is inspiring confidence.
If you watch them on the pitch Given seems to bring a calming influence to the defence, while with Guzan things seem to be more chaotic and unorganised.
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we have to remember that Given had a number of really bad games when he was starting for us. We were horrible at defending crosses and he didn't command the box very well. He stays on his line more than he should too. So while Guzan deserves criticism for today Given wasn't exactly superb as our starting keeper. For me it won't be a shock if Guzan keeps his place or Given is provided with the opportunity next week. I'm leaning towards Sherwood having a quiet chat with him and playing him again.
The commanding of his box is why he lost his place to Hart at City.
Given is an excellent shot stopper but for a keeper he is quite small and high balls in the area fill me with dread with him in goal.Guzan 9 times out of 10 is going to mop up any high balls into the box.However this season he has been shaky culminating in the quite pathetic give away of a goal today.
I'd edge towards Given at moment but long term it maybe be they both need replacing.
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I'd have chosen Given long before today. I just don't think Guzman has been up to it recently. I think we could do with a new challenger next year. Not a vital pos compared to others but if the chance arises...
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Guzan for me. He has earned his number one spot at Villa through probably three or four seasons of great work and good form. I believe he has been a major contributing factor in us staying up in previous seasons. He's made some top saves in the last few seasons. I love his athleticism and his reaction speed. I think generally he does command his box well. Yeah okay, his form has dipped of late but not to the point where he should be dropped. That might be his undoing. I say we stay with him, give him the games to get his form back. I respect Given but for agility, shot stopping and world class saves, I prefer Guzan.
Also, Vlaar should never play the ball behind him, on his weaker foot with Man City's striker ten yards away. Ultimately it was Guzan's miskick but he was sold up the river here. He wasn't at fault for the second and third goals today.
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On current form, I'd pick Given. I think Guzan on the whole, is a better keeper - just going through a shaky patch, but will back him to sort his game out and come good again. It's nice to have a backup keeper like Given to throw in when the goose is wobbling though.
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Given for me,i think Guzan has been poor in quite a few games this season and hardly inspires any confidence.What ever happened to that England U21 keeper we pinched from Norwich?
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I would stick with Guzan but instruct defenders not to pass the ball back to him if there is an opposition player within 50 yards.
His cock up yesterday was all about panic in mind and body. He didn't want the ball in the first place and when it came to him he made the wrong decision and executed it terribly.
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Given should have come in after the WBA cup game.
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I would drop Brad Guzan. His game is all over the place. It is not a sudden loss of form, he has been poor all season and steadily getting worse.
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As good as Given is, I'm not sure you could rely on him week in, week out, as he's so injury-prone. He also makes mistakes when he plays, so is no different from Guzan in that respect.
Brad is a very good 'keeper. Everyone has a spell of iffy form at some stage, and he's having his. But he was consistently excellent last season, so we know what he's capable of.
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I've gone for Given but I doubt it will happen.
Should we be looking for a new number 1 for 2015/16 given (no pun intended) the current choices of Guzan/Given/Steer ?
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I recall given was very lucky against Leicester with a bad clearance and the rebound went wide? Not convinced by given at all. Stick with guzan who has been one of our best performers in recent years.
Quite. Guzan is a very good, if flawed goalkeeper.
Given is a competent goalkeeper.
I'd say stick with the very good one. Guzan shouldn't be dropped because he had a howler today, anymore than Benteke should be dropped because he missed a couple of great chances and couldn't stay onside.
The huge difference there is that Benteke has been in superb form and one miss doesn't change that Guzan has been in poor form, and his dismal display today just put the hat on that. A lot of places were carrying the story that Sherwood was thinking of replacing him with Given anyway, I bet he wishes he had now.
We will find out next game if Sherwood was considering replacing Guzan, because he won't need a bigger excuse than that howler to introduce a change
But I don't really know where your getting this consistent poor form of Guzan comes from,
I reckon your the sort of guy who sees one missed cross in a game and that's it he's had a poor game
He might not be quite as good As he can be but he set the bar very high,
For me Risso you are the king if the knee jerk reaction on here, every player would be dropped virtually every game if it was up to you, I think you need to understand the game a little more to be honest
Guzan made a massive howler last night, he's not been in a long run of poor form no matter what you say,
if his confidence is shot because of last night then Sherwood will replace him, if he sticks by him and tells him he's the best,builds his confidence up he could easily become the top keeper he is again
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On current form I'd stick Given in against Everton, although I do think Guzan is the better all round keeper.
That howler yesterday was truly the stuff of nightmares though.
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I think next year we need a keeper who can compete with Brad and really fight for the no.1 shirt.
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I don't think it is knee-jerk. Yes the defenders didn't exactly help him, but its all down to poor communication between them. Guzan has looked increasingly ill at ease all season and needs to be dropped for the run in.
I would go as far as saying that if we leave Guzan in the side, our chances of going down increase.
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
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It was a fucking clanger though
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The huge difference there is that Benteke has been in superb form and one miss doesn't change that Guzan has been in poor form, and his dismal display today just put the hat on that.
That depends on whether you think he has been in poor form. Which I don't think he has.
I've looked back at all the results since January, and can't find a goal that I'd put him at fault for over any other player, yesterday aside.
Which games, moments or goals are you thinking of that show he is in poor form?
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The missed cross from the free kick was pretty dismal as well, Brad didnt get within a country mile of it. Thing with nervous keepers is that it speads amongst the defence. If he's not on top of his game against Everton I'd consider a change.
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Guzan made a mistake and you made a knee-jerk reaction, forgetting all the good games he's had for us.
Given has played well in his few games, Guzan has played well in lots of games.
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I recall given was very lucky against Leicester with a bad clearance and the rebound went wide? Not convinced by given at all. Stick with guzan who has been one of our best performers in recent years.
Quite. Guzan is a very good, if flawed goalkeeper.
Given is a competent goalkeeper.
I'd say stick with the very good one. Guzan shouldn't be dropped because he had a howler today, anymore than Benteke should be dropped because he missed a couple of great chances and couldn't stay onside.
The huge difference there is that Benteke has been in superb form and one miss doesn't change that Guzan has been in poor form, and his dismal display today just put the hat on that. A lot of places were carrying the story that Sherwood was thinking of replacing him with Given anyway, I bet he wishes he had now.
We will find out next game if Sherwood was considering replacing Guzan, because he won't need a bigger excuse than that howler to introduce a change
But I don't really know where your getting this consistent poor form of Guzan comes from,
I reckon your the sort of guy who sees one missed cross in a game and that's it he's had a poor game
He might not be quite as good As he can be but he set the bar very high,
For me Risso you are the king if the knee jerk reaction on here, every player would be dropped virtually every game if it was up to you, I think you need to understand the game a little more to be honest
Guzan made a massive howler last night, he's not been in a long run of poor form no matter what you say,
if his confidence is shot because of last night then Sherwood will replace him, if he sticks by him and tells him he's the best,builds his confidence up he could easily become the top keeper he is again
Cheers for all that mate, appreciate it.
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I do wonder whether Guzan was affected mentally by not playing at Wembley last week and its playing on his mind. Parkes in a interview earlier this week said he was hurting a lot. If we are going to play Given against Arsenal then it probably makes sense to give him some game time before then. But I don't think he's that great either.
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Given organises the defence better than Guzan.
Time for some bold decisions to be Made.
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Difficult one. Stick with Guzan. Just.
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
Were he having a good season and made this mistake out of the blue then I'd agree. But he's been erratic to say the least. He has had good games, but he's had games where he's come out for crosses and been miles off, or charged out and been caught in no mans land or let in soft goals. He was poor against QPR. He's actually really got away with it in a couple of games where he's done something rash and not been punished. He's just not looking anywhere near as commanding this season as the previous too. But this can sometimes happen when you play every single game. Even Mourinho, who has two of the worlds best keepers, has had to switch between them at times.
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It was an horrendous fuck up yesterday but overall he's been great since he's been first choice.
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
Were he having a good season and made this mistake out of the blue then I'd agree. But he's been erratic to say the least. He has had good games, but he's had games where he's come out for crosses and been miles off, or charged out and been caught in no mans land or let in soft goals. He was poor against QPR. He's actually really got away with it in a couple of games where he's done something rash and not been punished. He's just not looking anywhere near as commanding this season as the previous too. But this can sometimes happen when you play every single game. Even Mourinho, who has two of the worlds best keepers, has had to switch between them at times.
He was dodgy against Hull, Stoke and WBA as well as I recall, and I said so at the time. The thing for me is that most of our other players have upped their game under Sherwood. Guzman hasn't in my opinion. I think for the remaining vital games, confidence is king, and Guzan's will be low, and I don't think we can afford that. I'm not saying that overall that Given is a superior keeper or should be our long term choice, but he's played well in the cups, and will be in high spirits. There was lots of talk in the papers of Guzan losing his place anyway before yesterday, which would suggest that Sherwood hasn't been impressed with his form anyway. Be interesting to see how Sherwood reacts to yesterday's dismal display by Guzan.
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
I'd agree if it was a one off but it's pretty hard to deny he's looked very shaky this season, a lot of rushes of blood and a fair few times he's looked out of position and been slow to get across to shots. I'd say his season has been a 5/6 out of 10
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
I'd agree if it was a one off but it's pretty hard to deny he's looked very shaky this season, a lot of rushes of blood and a fair few times he's looked out of position and been slow to get across to shots. I'd say his season has been a 5/6 out of 10
Five sixths?! I'm not much of a fan but even I'd say he's been at least 1 out of 10! ;)
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
I'd agree if it was a one off but it's pretty hard to deny he's looked very shaky this season, a lot of rushes of blood and a fair few times he's looked out of position and been slow to get across to shots. I'd say his season has been a 5/6 out of 10
Five sixths?! I'm not much of a fan but even I'd say he's been at least 1 out of 10! ;)
DOh.
Out of interest only Tim Howard has made more errors that have lead directly to goals than Brad this season.
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I recall given was very lucky against Leicester with a bad clearance and the rebound went wide? Not convinced by given at all. Stick with guzan who has been one of our best performers in recent years.
Quite. Guzan is a very good, if flawed goalkeeper.
Given is a competent goalkeeper.
I'd say stick with the very good one. Guzan shouldn't be dropped because he had a howler today, anymore than Benteke should be dropped because he missed a couple of great chances and couldn't stay onside.
The huge difference there is that Benteke has been in superb form and one miss doesn't change that Guzan has been in poor form, and his dismal display today just put the hat on that. A lot of places were carrying the story that Sherwood was thinking of replacing him with Given anyway, I bet he wishes he had now.
We will find out next game if Sherwood was considering replacing Guzan, because he won't need a bigger excuse than that howler to introduce a change
But I don't really know where your getting this consistent poor form of Guzan comes from,
I reckon your the sort of guy who sees one missed cross in a game and that's it he's had a poor game
He might not be quite as good As he can be but he set the bar very high,
For me Risso you are the king if the knee jerk reaction on here, every player would be dropped virtually every game if it was up to you, I think you need to understand the game a little more to be honest
Guzan made a massive howler last night, he's not been in a long run of poor form no matter what you say,
if his confidence is shot because of last night then Sherwood will replace him, if he sticks by him and tells him he's the best,builds his confidence up he could easily become the top keeper he is again
Cheers for all that mate, appreciate it.
Very disappointed in you Risso
I just got back in Thought I was in for a good old Sunday bun fight,
You didn't even bite
Your just no fun anymore
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
I'd agree if it was a one off but it's pretty hard to deny he's looked very shaky this season, a lot of rushes of blood and a fair few times he's looked out of position and been slow to get across to shots. I'd say his season has been a 5/6 out of 10
Five sixths?! I'm not much of a fan but even I'd say he's been at least 1 out of 10! ;)
DOh.
Out of interest only Tim Howard has made more errors that have lead directly to goals than Brad this season.
Tim Howard has been poor for 2 years at least
Could be a real merry go round of keepers in the EPL this summer, I expect Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, Hull and maybe even ourselves looking for new number ones next term.
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Givens disposal stood out in the semi whereas Brads kicking has been woeful all season, he has made some great saves but Given for me at the moment.
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He needs to put some serious time in over the summer improving it or his place should be up for grabs. He's had a great few years but sentiment counts for nothing.
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I've never been as keen on Guzan as many Villa fans. I like the fact he's pretty good on crosses but I've often thought he's let some saveable shots get past him. I think Shay is a better shot stopper but not so good at crosses and coming off his line generally. A combination of the two would be great, but neither are really top notch in my view. I have a slight preference for Given at the moment as Guzan has been below his best for a while and when you are threatened with relegation you could do without key players shooting you in the foot like Guzan did yesterday. I'd also say he bears a portion of the responsibility for the huge gap in the wall that led to the second goal, it's up to the keeper to organise the wall.
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As bad as that goal was yesterday, I'd keep Guzan, but only because I think he's physically stronger that Given. Everton & West Ham will test us on corners / crosses etc..., I'd prefer Guzan for that reason alone.
I do think Guzan has been living on what he did 2 seasons ago for some time.
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I'm not sure if my memory is faded or what but Given went to the euros and looked shit, came back, started the season shit got hammered against Everton and never got a look in again. Before that I don't remember him looking poor and he was still highly thought of.
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I'd also say he bears a portion of the responsibility for the huge gap in the wall that led to the second goal, it's up to the keeper to organise the wall.
I don't think you can blame him for the wall. He asked for 4, and if they stood strong and kept their position that gap would have been reduced considerably. Bacuna side-steps to his left and turns away from the ball, inviting the shot. Was his job to stay where he was.
Bit harsh to give Guzan any stick for the second, in my opinion.
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I would bring Given in for the next game and recall Nigel Sims for the Cup Final!
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All valid points Risso but I'd stick with Guzan. For me he is in that group of keepers just below the Courtois/Gea. Given would make mistakes too and I'm not sure it is worth risking losing Guzan when Given could retire at any point.
Agree.
To drop Brad on the back of a single mistake, and lets be frank it was a chuffin' howler, could wreck his confidence. He knows he f*cked up so give him chance to redeem himself.
I agree he might be a bit below par on previous seasons, but he certainly kept us in the Prem for two seasons.
Let's not forget, we know that Shay makes mistakes, too.
As aj2 says, no one should be un-droppable, but on this occasion it would be a knee jerk reaction
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Think we've see Given in goal next week, the mistake was inexcusable.
Would be ironic as Everton at home was the last league game Shay played for us.
Yes, he cost us three goals, too!!
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We all widely agreed that had Guzan played the Bradford semi we would have likely gone through. I think some decent displays have rose tinted the memories of Given. I will agree on the point picked up by Paulie, Guzan doesn't save some that I expect him too. I think that we could well see Sherwood go for his own keeper come the summer. But in fairness most top keepers have rough patches. Tim Howard was woeful for some of last season according to Everton fans, Hart was publicly dropped. Delph Gea still has big mistakes in him. I think Guzan has earnt a bit of an arm and a confidence boost.
It's very easy for people to say that from the stands, it's a totally different picture at ground level, though.
Every keeper has a howler in their locker. Cortois, beaten from 65 yards, I've seen Harte and DeGea cost goals on a few occasions, too.
There have been a few times this season when Brad has spilt a seemingly straight forward shot. It's not until it's seen on TV that you realise that it's taken a nick of a players knee/ boot/shin which has left no reaction time.
I thought Shay should have done better with Liverpool's goal, I bet no one in the stands knew it had taken a deflection until replayed, though.
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We all widely agreed that had Guzan played the Bradford semi we would have likely gone through. I think some decent displays have rose tinted the memories of Given. I will agree on the point picked up by Paulie, Guzan doesn't save some that I expect him too. I think that we could well see Sherwood go for his own keeper come the summer. But in fairness most top keepers have rough patches. Tim Howard was woeful for some of last season according to Everton fans, Hart was publicly dropped. Delph Gea still has big mistakes in him. I think Guzan has earnt a bit of an arm and a confidence boost.
It's very easy for people to say that from the stands, it's a totally different picture at ground level, though.
Every keeper has a howler in their locker. Cortois, beaten from 65 yards, I've seen Harte and DeGea cost goals on a few occasions, too.
There have been a few times this season when Brad has spilt a seemingly straight forward shot. It's not until it's seen on TV that you realise that it's taken a nick of a players knee/ boot/shin which has left no reaction time.
I thought Shay should have done better with Liverpool's goal, I bet no one in the stands knew it had taken a deflection until replayed, though.
It was Okore who should have done better. I thought that Given had no chance, without even seeing that it hit somebody on the way in.
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Guzan got the gig because the manager decided form meant more than reputation, and rightly so. By the same token Given should be brought back. We are lucky to have two excellent goalies at the club, even if, as the OP points out, one of them should not have been here in the first place. We should not hesitate to use them.
Guzan's main strengths have been organising the defence and dominating the area on crosses. Absolutely priceless whilst Baker and Clark were cutting their teeth but less important now. Given has been the better shot stopper and kicker, he is currently the best choice.
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I'm not sure if my memory is faded or what but Given went to the euros and looked shit, came back, started the season shit got hammered against Everton and never got a look in again. Before that I don't remember him looking poor and he was still highly thought of.
I'm sure we were all bitching about him going to the Euros injured and he never regained full fitness before his dodgy 3-4 games before he was dropped.
Might be my memory though. More holes than Swiss cheese these days. :(
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He had a shocker at the Euros.
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Not only the first "howler" but the second "flap" where the player should of scored is unfortunately justifiable to be dropped. I am a Guzan fan. But its such a vital time of our season to enter with a keeper lacking confidence .......
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I think after the Citeh game Guzans confidence will be shot, he has to be dropped.
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I think after the Citeh game Guzans confidence will be shot, he has to be dropped.
Agree. The defence seem less jittery when Given plays.
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We all widely agreed that had Guzan played the Bradford semi we would have likely gone through. I think some decent displays have rose tinted the memories of Given. I will agree on the point picked up by Paulie, Guzan doesn't save some that I expect him too. I think that we could well see Sherwood go for his own keeper come the summer. But in fairness most top keepers have rough patches. Tim Howard was woeful for some of last season according to Everton fans, Hart was publicly dropped. Delph Gea still has big mistakes in him. I think Guzan has earnt a bit of an arm and a confidence boost.
It's very easy for people to say that from the stands, it's a totally different picture at ground level, though.
Every keeper has a howler in their locker. Cortois, beaten from 65 yards, I've seen Harte and DeGea cost goals on a few occasions, too.
There have been a few times this season when Brad has spilt a seemingly straight forward shot. It's not until it's seen on TV that you realise that it's taken a nick of a players knee/ boot/shin which has left no reaction time.
I thought Shay should have done better with Liverpool's goal, I bet no one in the stands knew it had taken a deflection until replayed, though.
It was Okore who should have done better. I thought that Given had no chance, without even seeing that it hit somebody on the way in.
That's a matter of opinion, but you would say that as you're calling for Shay to come back in.
Yes Okore should have done better, and the ball should have been cleared well before the goal.
Had that shot not taken a deflection down, under Shays hands, I reckon he'd have got his hand to the ball, that's what made the difference, giving Shay no chance.
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We all widely agreed that had Guzan played the Bradford semi we would have likely gone through. I think some decent displays have rose tinted the memories of Given. I will agree on the point picked up by Paulie, Guzan doesn't save some that I expect him too. I think that we could well see Sherwood go for his own keeper come the summer. But in fairness most top keepers have rough patches. Tim Howard was woeful for some of last season according to Everton fans, Hart was publicly dropped. Delph Gea still has big mistakes in him. I think Guzan has earnt a bit of an arm and a confidence boost.
It's very easy for people to say that from the stands, it's a totally different picture at ground level, though.
Every keeper has a howler in their locker. Cortois, beaten from 65 yards, I've seen Harte and DeGea cost goals on a few occasions, too.
There have been a few times this season when Brad has spilt a seemingly straight forward shot. It's not until it's seen on TV that you realise that it's taken a nick of a players knee/ boot/shin which has left no reaction time.
I thought Shay should have done better with Liverpool's goal, I bet no one in the stands knew it had taken a deflection until replayed, though.
It was Okore who should have done better. I thought that Given had no chance, without even seeing that it hit somebody on the way in.
That's a matter of opinion, but you would say that as you're calling for Shay to come back in.
Yes Okore should have done better, and the ball should have been cleared well before the goal.
Had that shot not taken a deflection down, under Shays hands, I reckon he'd have got his hand to the ball, that's what made the difference, giving Shay no chance.
Er, so you're agreeing that Given had no chance then,but I'm only saying so because I want him back in. Oh, OK....
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He had a shocker at the Euros.
People were suggesting he should have retired then.
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He had a shocker at the Euros.
People were suggesting he should have retired then.
Not playing every week has possibly re-energised and added a few years to his playing career.
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We all widely agreed that had Guzan played the Bradford semi we would have likely gone through. I think some decent displays have rose tinted the memories of Given. I will agree on the point picked up by Paulie, Guzan doesn't save some that I expect him too. I think that we could well see Sherwood go for his own keeper come the summer. But in fairness most top keepers have rough patches. Tim Howard was woeful for some of last season according to Everton fans, Hart was publicly dropped. Delph Gea still has big mistakes in him. I think Guzan has earnt a bit of an arm and a confidence boost.
It's very easy for people to say that from the stands, it's a totally different picture at ground level, though.
Every keeper has a howler in their locker. Cortois, beaten from 65 yards, I've seen Harte and DeGea cost goals on a few occasions, too.
There have been a few times this season when Brad has spilt a seemingly straight forward shot. It's not until it's seen on TV that you realise that it's taken a nick of a players knee/ boot/shin which has left no reaction time.
I thought Shay should have done better with Liverpool's goal, I bet no one in the stands knew it had taken a deflection until replayed, though.
It was Okore who should have done better. I thought that Given had no chance, without even seeing that it hit somebody on the way in.
That's a matter of opinion, but you would say that as you're calling for Shay to come back in.
Yes Okore should have done better, and the ball should have been cleared well before the goal.
Had that shot not taken a deflection down, under Shays hands, I reckon he'd have got his hand to the ball, that's what made the difference, giving Shay no chance.
Er, so you're agreeing that Given had no chance then,but I'm only saying so because I want him back in. Oh, OK....
Er, If you actually read what I wrote you would see that I said I thought he should have done better but I didn't realise (like everyone else at the time) that it had been deflected under his hand!!
Oh, Ok...
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Sounds to me like Sherwood's going to stick with Guzan.
From the OS:
Tim Sherwood has backed Brad Guzan to bounce back from his Etihad error.
Guzan scuffed a clearance in the early stages of the game at Man City, leading to Sergio Aguero scoring the opening goal.
Villa's No.1 will have wanted the turf to swallow him up at that moment.
But Sherwood thinks the goalkeeper has the presence of mind and inner steel to come back strong from the mistake.
He said: "Brad knows he's just got to bounce back. I am confident he will.
"It won't be his first mistake and it won't his last. That's the nature of the game for a goalkeeper. You just have to get on with it.
"You need to have that character to bounce back. It's not about how many mistakes he makes it's how he reacts.
"He's a good character and I know the boys aren't pointing any fingers at him. He's made a mistake. No-one is putting blame on him.
"These things happen. Unfortunately for goalkeepers there's no hiding place.
"What can you say? Brad knows he's made a mistake. But he's a good character and he'll get over it."
While Sherwood was pleased with Villa's attacking intent and overall performance in the narrow 3-2 defeat at the home of the champions, he did insist that his team need to cut out mistakes in the season run-in.
He added: "We need to tighten up defensively if we're going to stay in the Premier League.
"We nullified their individual talents. The disappointment is that they didn't have to work too hard for the goals.
"We gifted them the goals. That's a real frustration.
"But overall, I think the players really believe. We've won some big games in the last few weeks and we should have taken something from the home of the champions.
"We performed well and we're very unfortunate to go away with nothing.
"We're running out of games. But there are still enough matches left to look after our own destiny."
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4670845,00.html
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Good
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I think it sends a bad messaage, make a mistake and your out! Nah
Were he having a good season and made this mistake out of the blue then I'd agree. But he's been erratic to say the least. He has had good games, but he's had games where he's come out for crosses and been miles off, or charged out and been caught in no mans land or let in soft goals. He was poor against QPR. He's actually really got away with it in a couple of games where he's done something rash and not been punished. He's just not looking anywhere near as commanding this season as the previous too. But this can sometimes happen when you play every single game. Even Mourinho, who has two of the worlds best keepers, has had to switch between them at times.
He was dodgy against Hull, Stoke and WBA as well as I recall, and I said so at the time. The thing for me is that most of our other players have upped their game under Sherwood. Guzman hasn't in my opinion. I think for the remaining vital games, confidence is king, and Guzan's will be low, and I don't think we can afford that. I'm not saying that overall that Given is a superior keeper or should be our long term choice, but he's played well in the cups, and will be in high spirits. There was lots of talk in the papers of Guzan losing his place anyway before yesterday, which would suggest that Sherwood hasn't been impressed with his form anyway. Be interesting to see how Sherwood reacts to yesterday's dismal display by Guzan.
I agree with this, our kid's been in my ear about it for a while and he still goes every week.
I'd have still batted it off because I didn't rate Given but he's looked very solid when he's played in contrast to Guzan.
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I'll be glad if he does stick with Guzan.
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Correct decision made today I feel.
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Shows there are no favourites and everyone has to get in the side on merit.
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Knee-jerk reactions...Given out!!!
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He should have been stronger than he was for Jagielka's goal. I know it usually only takes the smallest of contacts for a free kick to be given in those scenarios but he should have dealt with it himself.
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Brad is more commanding under crosses and would likely not have conceded that. They're both good and a bit crap in different ways.
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It was a foul, you can't really say he should have dealt with it and just got on with it when it was a blatant foul.
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It was a foul, you can't really say he should have dealt with it and just got on with it when it was a blatant foul.
I don't think Guzan would have had any issues taking the ball in that situation.
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You can't rely on a ref to get you out of the shit, as we saw today. Brad deserved to be dropped to get a kick up the arse and keepers usually come back stronger when that happens but Shay didn't look at all confident claiming that ball.
Shay's usually looks to stay in his 6 yard box. Brad looks to command the 18 yard box.
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It was a foul, you can't really say he should have dealt with it and just got on with it when it was a blatant foul.
I don't think Guzan would have had any issues taking the ball in that situation.
Maybe not, but it was a foul. It's like having a nippy centre forward man handled to the floor when clean through, a big man would have maybe fought through but a foul is a foul and the ref should not be allowing that kind of contact in the box.
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I don't think anyone's saying it wasn't a foul.
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So how can we criticise a player for not dealing with being fouled?
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Because he's got to be stronger than that. If you can't catch it or tip it over, put a fist on it. Even before Coleman did anything he didn't seem comfortable. Those situations just aren't something that are a strength of his game, never has been.
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Well, we won the game with him between the sticks. Guzan has been ropey in several games lately, and directly contributed to the defeat last week, so has been rightly dropped.
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Because he's got to be stronger than that. If you can't catch it or tip it over, put a fist on it. Even before Coleman did anything he didn't seem comfortable. Those situations just aren't something that are a strength of his game, never has been.
I get your point but it should have been blown for a foul and we shouldn't have to play giant bastards in goal simply because they can deal with getting fouled better. Some of the shit I've seen given as free kicks for fouls on goalies.
If it was the other way round he would have blown. The fucker Clattenberg had a hard on for Everton all game, they were very niggly.
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clattenberg has got a toffee up his ring piece
best referee in the country , as far as refereeing goes were fucked.
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To echo OzVilla on the post-match thread, I usually rate Clattenberg but he was terrible today. I think it was a penalty but there was no protection against persistent fouling and of course, the freekick that wasn't awarded.
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Clatttenburg was abysmal today.
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He was far worse than that.
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Because he's got to be stronger than that. If you can't catch it or tip it over, put a fist on it. Even before Coleman did anything he didn't seem comfortable. Those situations just aren't something that are a strength of his game, never has been.
I havent seen it since, but it looked like he didnt get off the ground properly for the punch. I think he needs to be stronger. Maybe an age thing?
Guzan gives me more confidence
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Because he's got to be stronger than that. If you can't catch it or tip it over, put a fist on it. Even before Coleman did anything he didn't seem comfortable. Those situations just aren't something that are a strength of his game, never has been.
I havent seen it since, but it looked like he didnt get off the ground properly for the punch. I think he needs to be stronger. Maybe an age thing?
Guzan gives me more confidence
I don't see how age would be a factor, commanding his 18 yard box has never been one of his strengths. He's best known for shot stopping.
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First of all i am a self confessed Guzan super fan
I sat behind the goal today and Given never put a foot wrong the whole game apart from the bit at the end,
in fairness Everton never really tested him, the couple of shots they did have were straight at him, but his handling was good throughout
His problem is in the air, and Guzan would win out on that one,
but the thing that is noticeably a lot better over Guzan is the kicking, the ball was landing right on top of Bentekes head virtually every time, I was really impressed with that, and in general his kick outs were just loads better
I personally would have to bring back Guzan as soon as I could as he is the future and for me one of the best in the prem, but Given does have his qualities especially the kicking one which is a big thing in today's football
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Every promising keeper goes through a bad patch. They either come out of it the better for the experience, or they're Scott Carson. I was glad Given played today because at the moment he's the more reliable of the two and it's a time for cool heads. But we need a new keeper for next season even only as back-up because Given's not getting any younger and I've not seen anything from Jed Steer that makes me think he'll be good enough for a long while.
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Given has done well today, marshals the defence well. Experience is vital at times like this.
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I agree. i think that Guzan's time has come and gone. he sums up our time under Lambert and as well as he has played he's run out of brownie points. We need to buy a new number 1 for next season and say thanks Brad, but time to move on. My eldest will be gutted .
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Goalkeeper's one of the hardest positions to fill. I think quite a lot of the time you have to be content to have a good example rather than a great one, because a young keeper can be promising and never kick on, or they can be so good that they move immediately to a big club and spend their career there.
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Fair play to sherwood , he's shown he won't tolerate mediocre performances.
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Guzan had another chance at the Villa out of nowhere. He's done fantastically well, but I agree with another poster above - it's time to move on from the Lambert era in a good many ways.
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Brave but ultimately good move by Sherwood. That cock up by Guzan last week was clearly the final straw. Given deserves the last 4 games.
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
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Given has been a model pro through all the trials and tribulations of the last few years. He's earned his ticket.
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I'm happy with Given as a back-up for the last year of his contract. I think Guzan will come back and get back to his best. You only have to look at how being dropped for a few games improved keepers like Hart and Mignolet. I think Guzan will be the same and be part of Sherwood's plans for the foreseeable future. The fewer positions we need to replace, the more can be spent on top players in key positions.
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So now Given's got his place back does guzan get the Cup final berth???
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
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yes it was a foul but he should have been stronger.
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So now Given's got his place back does guzan get the Cup final berth???
I doubt it. I think Sherwood has already said Given's getting the spot.
I think Guzan just needs a good summer off and a solid pre-season and he'll come back fine.
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yes it was a foul but he should have been stronger.
My take on it too having seen it on TV. I was none the wiser from the Holte End
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So now Given's got his place back does guzan get the Cup final berth???
I doubt it. I think Sherwood has already said Given's getting the spot.
I think Guzan just needs a good summer off and a solid pre-season and he'll come back fine.
I'm not so sure, as I think his kicking is a problem. When your keeper struggles to clear the halfway line, you are always going to put pressure on yourselves. Saying that, I can't think of too many goalkeepers in the top flight who don't have their flaws.
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Surprised TS actually made the decision to drop Guzan...theres a valid argument for both sides, so if he thinks Guzan needs dropping then thats all good with me.
Clattenburg today? FML. What a t**t! The Everton players clearly took a bollocking at half time, and their persistent late cynical challenges and leaving their foot in only got worse in the second half. They came out more determined but it was good to see that we matched and mixed it up with them, and the 3rd goal took seemed to deflate them. No thanks to Clattenburg who seemed desperate for Everton to take at least a point from the game.
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I agree it was a foul but I can't see Guzan being held down like that
Fat Sam will have a clear game plan for that next weekend and West Ham have plenty of physicality
It's always been a weakness of given so I'm not sure how effectively he can focus on it during the week in training.
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I think Sherwood's decision yesterday was based more on giving Shey games in the run up to the Cup final than it was because of Guzan's error last week. I still really rate Guzan, but I don't mind Given getting the last few games, he is still a very relieable keeper.
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I think Sherwood's decision yesterday was based more on giving Shey games in the run up to the Cup final than it was because of Guzan's error last week. I still really rate Guzan, but I don't mind Given getting the last few games, he is still a very relieable keeper.
The error had it all to do with Guzan's dropping, no way would he have been dropped if he'd just conceded 3 goals in a normal fashion at City.
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Must be tough for Guzan missing out on the final.
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
It didn't look too much like one at the game and that was backed up later seeing it on the TV. He should have been much stronger in that situation and should have took command of the situation. He wasn't and he didn't.
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
It didn't look too much like one at the game and that was backed up later seeing it on the TV. He should have been much stronger in that situation and should have took command of the situation. He wasn't and he didn't.
. .? Coleman had him in an armlock !
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
It didn't look too much like one at the game and that was backed up later seeing it on the TV. He should have been much stronger in that situation and should have took command of the situation. He wasn't and he didn't.
If he had been 'stronger' you'd have been looking at a penalty and probable sending-off.
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He had a split second to react, and he was being held down by an opposing player. Clear and obvious foul, and the penalty was soft as well.
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My only criticism is that he looked as though he expected a foul to be given, because it was a foul. After 91 minutes of Clattenburg giving us nothing, he shouldn't have expected it to happen at the last knockings.
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
It didn't look too much like one at the game and that was backed up later seeing it on the TV. He should have been much stronger in that situation and should have took command of the situation. He wasn't and he didn't.
If he had been 'stronger' you'd have been looking at a penalty and probable sending-off.
Coleman just stood as close as he could, he certainly obstructed Given getting to the ball, Clattenburg was never in a million years going to give us that decision.
Dave's right, if Shay had pushed Coleman out of the way Clattenburg would have gone the whole 9 yards with the punishment.
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Where, I might ask, was the linesman in all this. I saw the incident on television this morning. Clattenburg possibly did not have a clear view
or was concentrating on other players. The linesman should have had a perfect view and reported what he saw to Clattenburg. Perhaps he did and was ignored. With the penalty after watching it again I am of the opinion that Shay Given could have saved it,but not should of saved it.A taller goalkeeper would have had a better chance. Most goalkeepers are well over six foot. Shay isn't.
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Can be ruthless when he needs to can't he our Tim!!!
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He had a split second to react, and he was being held down by an opposing player. Clear and obvious foul, and the penalty was soft as well.
I'd bet my life if Guzan was in the nets you would have a totally different take on it
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To be fair I think it probably should have been a free kick but it wasn't blindingly obvious, I'd like to see my keeper being a little bit more physical than that. No way would the ref have awarded a penalty if Given had moved Coleman out the way. I'd put him at fault for their second.
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Givens a liability on high balls, Guzans a liability with his kicking
that's the nub
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If it wasn't for Guzan we'd probably have been relegated the previous 2 seasons, without a doubt Lambert's first season. So i'm not going to stick the knife in him and write him off just yet.
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Spot on PWS.
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If it wasn't for Guzan we'd probably have been relegated the previous 2 seasons, without a doubt Lambert's first season. So i'm not going to stick the knife in him and write him off just yet.
Yep I agree
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Does anyone think Guzan might've saved the penalty? He's good at saving penalties and it didn't look too difficult to save.
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Does anyone think Guzan might've saved the penalty? He's good at saving penalties and it didn't look too difficult to save.
He hasn't saved one for a while, however you can't help but feel that both goals against yesterday might have been stopped by Guzan as he would have capitalised on his strengths. The question is would he have kicked the ball straight to Lukaku at any point.
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He had a split second to react, and he was being held down by an opposing player. Clear and obvious foul, and the penalty was soft as well.
So do you trust him at crosses in general, then ?
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I like Guzan, but I think he needed to be dropped to realise he won't just start every week come what may.
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Guzan should spend the whole of the summer break practising his kicking
get someone like johny Wilkinson to give him some help,
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It was a good kick up the arse for Guzan and now up to him to respond but he's still the vastly better keeper in my view.
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Until Guzan sorts out his kicking and overall distribution he will always fall short of being good enough. He just looks a bag or nerves now when the ball is played back to him. Teams have now spotted this and his reluctance to kick from hand so are pushing up more on our defenders.
I have said before that his balance looks all wrong when he goes to kick. This is something that can be coached out of him though and as somebody else has said, he should spend the summer improving this side of his game.
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Until Guzan sorts out his kicking and overall distribution he will always fall short of being good enough. He just looks a bag or nerves now when the ball is played back to him. Teams have now spotted this and his reluctance to kick from hand so are pushing up more on our defenders.
I have said before that his balance looks all wrong when he goes to kick. This is something that can be coached out of him though and as somebody else has said, he should spend the summer improving this side of his game.
I agree,
but he is 30 now you'd have thought he would have done something about it before now, unless he has with no improvments
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After watching the goal again I think I was wrong, Given was pretty weak and should have dealt with it a lot better. Not saying it wasn't a foul, but it wasn't as blatant as I first though. His jump was either really poor or he was playing on the player being physical and expected the referee to blow.
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I think Given was unlucky, mainly because of where the ball was falling..
I think he may have dealt with it if he was sure that it was staying on the pitch, but i'm not sure he knew whether it was going to stay in, hit the bar, or just drop out of play.. couple that with Coleman doing his best to put him off, he got himself in a tangle
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Is it me or is Given smaller than Guzan. maybe its my eyes and I'm so used to seeing Guzan there now, but Given just looks tiny in comparison. Almost like when you see a small kid in goals when playing with bigger kids in the park. Well, not that small maybe.
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Is it me or is Given smaller than Guzan. maybe its my eyes and I'm so used to seeing Guzan there now, but Given just looks tiny in comparison. Almost like when you see a small kid in goals when playing with bigger kids in the park. Well, not that small maybe.
He's a good three or four inches smaller.
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Is it me or is Given smaller than Guzan. maybe its my eyes and I'm so used to seeing Guzan there now, but Given just looks tiny in comparison. Almost like when you see a small kid in goals when playing with bigger kids in the park. Well, not that small maybe.
He's a good three or four inches smaller.
That much? Plus he doesn't seem as wide. not as imposing.
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Coleman would not have been able to get away with that against Guzan - far stronger than Given. Had Lukaka, not saying he would, took the penalty in the same way I suspect Guzan may have saved it.
Given was brilliant at Newcastle but not been as good since.
All in my pinion of course. I like Given - peoper professional. Just think Guzan is better keeper. Suspect Sherwoods lomg standing relationship with Given will give him the nod in the last 4 games.
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
It didn't look too much like one at the game and that was backed up later seeing it on the TV. He should have been much stronger in that situation and should have took command of the situation. He wasn't and he didn't.
If he had been 'stronger' you'd have been looking at a penalty and probable sending-off.
When was the last time a goalkeeper got penalized for being a little bit physical? It just doesn't happen. I think the unwritten rule is you can't touch a goalkeeper but they can do what they want...pretty much.
Guzan and Given are much of a muchness. Neither really brilliant and neither really poor. What is clear to see as peter w has pointed out is that Given is much smaller in stature than Guzan so consequently less upper body strength. Much easier to arm lock/hold back or whatever people are saying the infringement was that the very close Clattenberg somehow failed to see.
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Stronger doesn't mean fouling though. I think Given could have done more in the situation and even if held, and he was, the fist that got to the ball was pretty poor. This is why we could still go down and that is our defence is still making silly mistakes. Since Tottenham we've played very well in the league but conceded 5 times in two games. Yes against decent teams. But take away free-kick and the other 4 goals were wholly avoidable.
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After watching the goal again I think I was wrong, Given was pretty weak and should have dealt with it a lot better. Not saying it wasn't a foul, but it wasn't as blatant as I first though. His jump was either really poor or he was playing on the player being physical and expected the referee to blow.
Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it. He didn't seem brave enough and then didn't really take ownership of the role he played in it.
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At least we're not conceding in open play but cornalties are rearing their ugly heads again.
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A goalkeeper has to take command in those situations. His arguing of the point at the end with the ref' was just looking for an excuse.
Don't agree, it was a foul
It didn't look too much like one at the game and that was backed up later seeing it on the TV. He should have been much stronger in that situation and should have took command of the situation. He wasn't and he didn't.
If he had been 'stronger' you'd have been looking at a penalty and probable sending-off.
When was the last time a goalkeeper got penalized for being a little bit physical? It just doesn't happen. I think the unwritten rule is you can't touch a goalkeeper but they can do what they want...pretty much.
Guzan and Given are much of a muchness. Neither really brilliant and neither really poor. What is clear to see as peter w has pointed out is that Given is much smaller in stature than Guzan so consequently less upper body strength. Much easier to arm lock/hold back or whatever people are saying the infringement was that the very close Clattenberg somehow failed to see.
The big difference is command of the area. Guzan is excellent at that. Given poor. Generally speaking I'd always go Guzan first choice
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Given has been a great pro, but both goals IMO he should have stopped yesterday. The first is a poor penalty and he committed to early, the second sorry but while it is a foul, he has to be much stronger. In defence though, so do the other defenders.
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Two clean sheets in a row in vital games is starting to vindicate the decision.
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Two clean sheets in a row in vital games is starting to vindicate the decision.
Eh?
I thought his vulnerability at corners was again a problem for us
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Two clean sheets in a row in vital games is starting to vindicate the decision.
Eh?
I thought his vulnerability at corners was again a problem for us
Ignore me, it's been a long week! I actually have no idea why I thought we had beaten Everton 1-0!
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Two clean sheets in a row in vital games is starting to vindicate the decision.
in a row, nope.
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Plus we conceded two two games ago. i also thought Given was weak in controlling his area again. the offside goal was well directed but that's the type of header he misses. Nicely taken but I think guzan may have got his hand to it. Maybe I'me being unfair as I haven't seen it from behind the goal to see how well it was finished. I don't know, I'm just not sure about Given and think he's more of a liability than Guzan.
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Two clean sheets in a row in vital games is starting to vindicate the decision.
Eh?
I thought his vulnerability at corners was again a problem for us
Ignore me, it's been a long week! I actually have no idea why I thought we had beaten Everton 1-0!
Someone on the radio earlier said the same thing maybe it's in your mind from there ;)
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I doubt if Coleman or the West Ham lad (Nolan?) would have tried to do what they did if Guzan had been in goal. Given's reputation precedes him. Then again, against West Ham, the foul on the goalkeeper possibly stopped Bacuna conceding a pen.
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I suspect the final 3 games will be
Saints - given will play
Burnley - Guzan
Fa cup final - given
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I suspect the final 3 games will be
Saints - given will play
Burnley - Guzan
Fa cup final - given
This could be right. I'm just not convinced by Given but you can't drop Given now and then play him in the Cup final as that could knock his confidence. If we're safe then Guzan goes in for Burnley.
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I doubt if Coleman or the West Ham lad (Nolan?) would have tried to do what they did if Guzan had been in goal. Given's reputation precedes him. Then again, against West Ham, the foul on the goalkeeper possibly stopped Bacuna conceding a pen.
Nolan always does this no matter who they are playing - he has since he played for fat Sam at Bolton. Hsvimg Guzan in goal would have made no difference.
In fact I think fat Sam invented the tactic although it was taken up enthusiastically by Pulis at Stoke and othrr teams use it from time to time too. It's just frustrating that referees dont penalise it more often.
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Get Guzan back in please. Given is a liability, too weak.
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I doubt if Coleman or the West Ham lad (Nolan?) would have tried to do what they did if Guzan had been in goal. Given's reputation precedes him. Then again, against West Ham, the foul on the goalkeeper possibly stopped Bacuna conceding a pen.
Nolan always does this no matter who they are playing - he has since he played for fat Sam at Bolton. Hsvimg Guzan in goal would have made no difference.
In fact I think fat Sam invented the tactic although it was taken up enthusiastically by Pulis at Stoke and othrr teams use it from time to time too. It's just frustrating that referees dont penalise it more often.
Jack Charlton did this under Revie at Leeds in the seventies. That's where Sam Alladyce got the idea from.
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I doubt if Coleman or the West Ham lad (Nolan?) would have tried to do what they did if Guzan had been in goal. Given's reputation precedes him. Then again, against West Ham, the foul on the goalkeeper possibly stopped Bacuna conceding a pen.
Nolan always does this no matter who they are playing - he has since he played for fat Sam at Bolton. Hsvimg Guzan in goal would have made no difference.
Well, Guzan could have used his extra height, strength and confidence in claiming crosses to just pluck the ball out of the air.
There's that difference.
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I doubt if Coleman or the West Ham lad (Nolan?) would have tried to do what they did if Guzan had been in goal. Given's reputation precedes him. Then again, against West Ham, the foul on the goalkeeper possibly stopped Bacuna conceding a pen.
Nolan always does this no matter who they are playing - he has since he played for fat Sam at Bolton. Hsvimg Guzan in goal would have made no difference.
Well, Guzan could have used his extra height, strength and confidence in claiming crosses to just pluck the ball out of the air.
There's that difference.
I agree. I feel Shay will let us down at Wembley if he plays. Having said that both Arsenal keepers are not of the highest standard either.
Guzan had one very poor game . Sometimes he is exceptional and has saved us many a time. I much prefer Brad Guzan.
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There's no way Guzan would have been able to be targeted in that way. It's happened two games in a row since given came in
We presumably are putting him through practice on this in training a lot
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The trouble is even Guzan had begun looking shaky on crosses and set pieces before being dropped. I think Given is fine for the remaining games as we're not playing a Sam Allardyce side again.
After a good summer and pre-season Guzan should be back to normal I think.
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The trouble is even Guzan had begun looking shaky on crosses and set pieces before being dropped. I think Given is fine for the remaining games as we're not playing a Sam Allardyce side again.
He was pretty ropey against a Roberto Martinez side as well.
I just have horrible visions of another 'Flappy James' FA Cup final moment.
Still, que sera sera and all that.
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Maybe with Given being the league keeper, Guzan will play in the cup final?
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We have two good keepers who both look short of confidence, I see we are being linked with the Bradford Keeper this morning
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Maybe with Given being the league keeper, Guzan will play in the cup final?
Nope, Sherwood's already said that Given is playing.
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I think Guzan's top level is higher than Given's, but they've pretty much leveled up due to Guzan's drop in form this year.
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Ultimately Guzan has nobody to blame but himself. In the middle of a relegation battle, in a match that is tough enough as it is vs the champions at their place, to gift their star forward goal after 3 minutes was an horrendous mistake to have made. That we came back as we did was remarkable, but he must of known after that and during the week that there was every chance the manager would make a change.
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I expect him to come back stronger as there's precedence when Mignolet and Hart were left out at their clubs. Doesn't look like he'll get his place back this season so hopefully he'll gets his head down in the summer and work on his weaknesses.
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Given is not going to have to face a barrage of crosses against the Arse.
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Given is not going to have to face a barrage of crosses against the Arse.
Good point.
In as far as they go wide, it is mostly so they can generate more space through the centre which comprises 90% or more of their attacking play. Giroud is no Benteke.
Interesting to see if TS sticks with 2 strikers and the attacking full backs though.
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I think Guzan's top level is higher than Given's, but they've pretty much leveled up due to Guzan's drop in form this year.
I think one of Brad's biggest problems is his kicking. His inability to reach Benteke and his distribution in General is a problem.
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Given is not going to have to face a barrage of crosses against the Arse.
Good point.
In as far as they go wide, it is mostly so they can generate more space through the centre which comprises 90% or more of their attacking play. Giroud is no Benteke.
Interesting to see if TS sticks with 2 strikers and the attacking full backs though.
I agree. He could perhaps go to a man city style formation - ie bring Sanchez in for nzogbia. That would make some sense as cleverley and delph would have lots of licence to exploit the gaps that Ramsey and Ozil leave.
But I can't help but think our best chance is to get at that defence, especially for pace. Gabby has often causes them problems. Nzogbia can too
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True but what Arsenal thrive on is space. if you become tough to break down then they aren't as fluent with the ball in the final 3rd. In saying that I don't want to see us sit back, try and keep it tight, and then to lose it 1-0 in the 78th minute when Given drops the ball from a corner or something.
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To be honest - and I hope to God that I'm not cursing anything here - we've been surprisingly solid at defending set-pieces since Sherwood came in. Even in the Cup game against the Baggies, when we had a particularly short side and they had at least 5 players over 6ft, we were relatively untroubled.
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We weren't very solid at defending set-pieces in games like QPR where we didn't have men on the posts. We obviously changed that for the semi-final being as Richardson cleared one off the line.
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We weren't very solid at defending set-pieces in games like QPR where we didn't have men on the posts. We obviously changed that for the semi-final being as Richardson cleared one off the line.
That's very true actually. I guess, as you say, it's good that it took one incident for us to actually rectify the problem, rather than watch us defend set-pieces dreadfully for a whole season under Lambert before we improved.
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To be honest - and I hope to God that I'm not cursing anything here - we've been surprisingly solid at defending set-pieces since Sherwood came in. Even in the Cup game against the Baggies, when we had a particularly short side and they had at least 5 players over 6ft, we were relatively untroubled.
I don't think we are good at defending set-pieces. Our marking is not good and we are not powerful enough in clearing the ball.
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If we can give Guzan the feet of Given we've got the best keeper in the league.
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I'd have the goose for Southampton and given for Wembley. And I'd have probably already told both of them that so they know what they have to focus on. Guzan will know he'll be back to first choice next season. If the squad stays intact over the summer it's not inconceivable that we could be back there in a final next season and he'll get his shot then
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Brad for Burnley and the final. His kicking may be suspect but Given worries the hell out of me, even before today. That's 8 in 3 games shipped, and he hasn't looked comfortable in the last 2 home games.
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Brad for Burnley and the final. His kicking may be suspect but Given worries the hell out of me, even before today. That's 8 in 3 games shipped, and he hasn't looked comfortable in the last 2 home games.
Yep. We all know Given is a good shot stopper but Guzan is better all round. Wouldn't surprise me to see a new number 1 keeper at the club next year though.
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Given looked like an old man today.
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Given looked like an old man today.
That's exactly what I thought, yesterday's man, he can't play week in week out. Mind BT's compilation of Guzan's howlers this season didn't make pretty viewing.
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We need a totally new keeper.
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If we can give Guzan the feet of Given we've got the best keeper in the league.
Seriously?
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Tim has an extra problem to ponder I think.
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Guzan please next week and at Wembley
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Guzan please next week and at Wembley
I wouldn't argue with that. Given is not the answer, he never comes for crosses and when he did today he made a right mess of it, potential weakness. At least Guzan is ok if the back 4 don't pass back to him.
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Given was weak with two of the blocks, got under Long's shot, came and flapped at a load of crosses.
Despite his form, Guzan is a better keeper.
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Guzan just needed a kick in the backside and got it. It's asking a lot to rely on a 39-year old who hadn't played a Premier League game for 2 and a half years.
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We need Guzan in if we serious want to beat Arsenal. With the defence on the half way line and Given on his goal-line it is just too easy...
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Today should put a rest to this thread.
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Today should put a rest to this thread.
Quite!
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I think Brad will play next week and Shay will play in the cup final.
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Today should put a rest to this thread.
Because we've never taken any hammerings with Guzan in goal have we?
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No but given was terrible
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Difference is Guzan in those games has been largely blameless. Given just makes the whole defence look as edgy as hell. People have short memories. Bradford home and away should have been the last time Given played for us. Guzan may not be the long term answer, but Given is not the short term one either.
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I'm not sure how much of a consideration it is, but how Guzan has more game time with the defenders than Given does. Maybe there's a better relationship between them as a result?
Guzan for me. more often than not, excellent keeper. Everyone messes up and he had his against Man City. Time to reinstate the Villa number one.
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Today should put a rest to this thread.
Quite!
Yep
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I can't see on what criterion Given is a better keeper than Guzan. The main criticism of Guzan has been that his kicking isn't up to scratch, but every time I watch Given he shows weakness in exactly the same area. In fact today, it wasn't just back passes, it was fucking goal kicks he was struggling to get up the pitch. When it comes to crosses, I actually prefer Guzan. Shay hardly ever comes off his line.
They're very evenly matched keepers, so it probably just comes down to form.
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Come back Brad, all is forgiven. I was a fool to have left you baby.
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I love Guzan I'm his biggest fan on here
In the past he has been just as important to us as Benteke
But if he had been in goals today it would not have made much difference to the scoreline
However he is a far better keeper than Given is now
If Benteke has a shocker he still plays because he is top class,
Guzan is also top class, at his best there is no better keeper in the prem
I don't think he will play again this season, I think Sherwood has made his mind up on this one
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As much as I want to see Guzan come back into the side it would be a very harsh on Given if he misses the cup final having played in every round so far, though you could argue Guzan had the same thing happen to him last time we reached a final.
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No not harsh at all. He us a professional and has been around a while in this game. He wasn't expecting to play this season after finishing last as a coach! We must play our best keeper and that at the moment is Brad although I agree nothing to shout about.
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Given has been told he'll be playing in the final.
Remember MO'N put Freidel in for the final after Guzan had played every round.
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Guzan is the better keeper. He should play in the final.
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Guzan is the better keeper. He should play in the final.
I do happen to agree, so no argument from me
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We need a totally new keeper.
Yes
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Just reliving the horror on MOTD, the first four goals are purely down to defensive fuckwittery, nothing Given could have done at all. He did quite well for three of them.
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...and then Long's goal was one of the strikes of the season. Nobody was saving that.
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Not sure what Given actually did wrong today, not the best kicker I would say but made blocks for a few goals but the attackers were faster than our dozy defenders
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Given has been told he'll be playing in the final.
Nothing is set in stone though. I think Sherwood is smart enough to change his mind if he feels it's the right decision, rather than be forced to do something because of previous comments.
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After today I want Guzan back. We have no room for sentiment.
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Today should put a rest to this thread.
Because we've never taken any hammerings with Guzan in goal have we?
Oh, so this is a jokey 'Christ we've got a right pair ain't we' type thread? get ya.
After today I doubt many people will want Given back in goal. He may play, but not many will think he should play.
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Which goals was he responsible for today?
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To be fair to Given they might have got double figures if not for him. I agree he's past his best, but I'd be worried about putting Guzan back in if his confidence isn't quite up to it. Give Guzan Burnley perhaps but I'd stick with Shay in the final.
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To be fair to Given they might have got double figures if not for him. I agree he's past his best, but I'd be worried about putting Guzan back in if his confidence isn't quite up to it. Give Guzan Burnley perhaps but I'd stick with Shay in the final.
That sort of thing tends to happen.
A team gets a hammering, yet the keeper is, nearly always, the stand out performer.
The Chelsea reversal is a classic, too.
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Just reliving the horror on MOTD, the first four goals are purely down to defensive fuckwittery, nothing Given could have done at all. He did quite well for three of them.
Did well how? Did he save save any of them? :D
To be honest for the second (I think it was the second) he should have gone with his hands and would probably have gotten a freekick if he was a bit braver. Everything else he did he looked extremely nervous and half hearted, he nearly cost us more than the 6 goals. His kicking was terrible, his flapping at every cross, his ridiculous hairstyle (sorry but it is ridiculous - I can excuse Jack at 19). A good guy but if we're bringing him in as an experienced pair of hands then he's a long way from it.
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To be fair to Given they might have got double figures if not for him. I agree he's past his best, but I'd be worried about putting Guzan back in if his confidence isn't quite up to it. Give Guzan Burnley perhaps but I'd stick with Shay in the final.
Absolute tosh, the guy tried his upmost to gift them more goals in the second half. One of the most nervous halves of football I have ever seen a GK have...
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I wouldn't be surprised if Given retires at the end of this season
He's finished at this level, and he knows it
Just hope it doesn't cost us the FA cup
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To be fair to Given they might have got double figures if not for him. I agree he's past his best, but I'd be worried about putting Guzan back in if his confidence isn't quite up to it. Give Guzan Burnley perhaps but I'd stick with Shay in the final.
Absolute tosh, the guy tried his upmost to gift them more goals in the second half. One of the most nervous halves of football I have ever seen a GK have...
If I had Vlaar and Okore in front of me and parting like the red sea I'd be nervous too. In fact it would take about 5 washes to clean my shorts.
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Which goals was he responsible for today?
I thought he should've tipped the third Mane goal over the bar. He dosen't have a great spring in him anymore after he did his shoulder at City so struggles to dive across the box.
People are being harsh blaming him for the other ones, I actually thought it was two good one-on-one saves and the problem was the likes of Hutton and Okore were on their backsides so couldn't complete the clearances.
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Which goals was he responsible for today?
I thought he should've tipped the third Mane goal over the bar. He dosen't have a great spring in him anymore after he did his shoulder at City so struggles to dive across the box.
People are being harsh blaming him for the other ones, I actually thought it was two good one-on-one saves and the problem was the likes of Hutton and Okore were on their backsides so couldn't complete the clearances.
Yeah I'm not sure what he could have done for most of those goals and any nervousness spread throughout the side from the two center-halves. But it clearly is time for Given to call time at this level to be honest. I'd still play him in the cup. I think he's got one great game left in him, and it could be that.
Given gives me the jitters but on current form so does Brad and I think sitting things out will do him good. I think sometimes as a keeper you can have too many consecutive games and then mistakes creep in and your solidity starts shaking a bit. He's not been like Friedel for example who was always a good, consistent keeper, even if he wasn't ever great. But he would be a solid 7/10 almost every game and mistakes didn't play on his mind.
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Sadly, neither given nor guzan are good enough to be number 1. A new first choice keeper is my no. 1 priority this summer.
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Guzan has been fine for the last two years but his level has dropped since December so a new younger keeper to challenge is certainly needed in the summer.
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Wasn't too long ago most on here had Brad as one of the best keepers in the league, and yet after a drop in form for a few months he's suddenly not good enough. Without him we'd have gone down Lambert's first season, quite possibly last season as well.
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Guzan has been fine for the last two years but his level has dropped since December so a new younger keeper to challenge is certainly needed in the summer.
TBH I think his form started dipping December 2013, or at least thats roughly when I think he started looking shaky. It just went under the radar for a bit because a) his mistakes weren't always costing us goals b) everyone else was awful too so he didnt stand out.
I like him, and if we had to get rid of one keeper I'd rather it was Given due to age/wages, but we certainly need some competition in that spot.
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http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=48309.0
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TS has to play his best starting XI regardless of sentiment or promises made.
Guzan was rightly dropped for his decline in performances which culminated in the shambles at Man City, but despite Given initially coming in and doing a good job, he's increasingly looking nervous...if we can feel it in the stands, then the players in front of him must feel it on the pitch.
I'd play Guzan against Burnley and make a decision based on recent performances and training.
After yesterday, Sherwood needs to make it clear that EVERYONE is fighting for Cup Final places over the next 2 weeks...every player needs to be fit and focused, and we can't afford to be making silly mistakes at the back.
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How has Steer done whilst on Loan?
I voted for the Goose originally and I've certainly not seen anything since which has changed my mind. My hunch is that Brad is a better organiser/talker which in turn make him a better keeper. Given just makes me feel nervous.
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To be fair to Given they might have got double figures if not for him. I agree he's past his best, but I'd be worried about putting Guzan back in if his confidence isn't quite up to it. Give Guzan Burnley perhaps but I'd stick with Shay in the final.
Absolute tosh, the guy tried his upmost to gift them more goals in the second half. One of the most nervous halves of football I have ever seen a GK have...
Would agree with that. Not sure Shay was at fault for any of the goals really, could argue he should have been braver for one of them. However he was a nervous wreck in the second half. Sad to see but Guzan will have to come back in for next two games with our safety ensured.
Just hope the break has done Guzan good. Aside from the City debacle his performance at Arsenal was shocking too. We will have to defend much deeper in the cup final.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Given retires at the end of this season
He's finished at this level, and he knows it
Why would he do that and wave goodbye to £2.5m that we'd have to pay him for the year?
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I wouldn't be surprised if Given retires at the end of this season
He's finished at this level, and he knows it
Why would he do that and wave goodbye to £2.5m that we'd have to pay him for the year?
Yep, as posted elsewhere, the more likely scenario if a new keeper comes in this summer is that Guzan moved on with Given seeing at the final year of his contract.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Given retires at the end of this season
He's finished at this level, and he knows it
Why would he do that and wave goodbye to £2.5m that we'd have to pay him for the year?
True, didn't think of that
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Depends if he feels he isn't up to another year. He's hardly going to be desperate for the money. May even come to a mutual agreement and give him part of that as a pay off if he did want to retire.
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It will be a nice way to go out as an FA Cup winner
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I'd be gutted if guzan left.
He's been just as heroic as benteke in my eyes over the last few seasons.
I hope he doesn't suffer for what was just a small run of bad games
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Thing with Given is that he's just afraction slow now in getting to that dive. A reaction reflex save a la Leicester is one thing but getting from a standing position to get a leap in is something completely different. The Everton penalty, their third yesterday, the West Ham non-goal...all examples of a slow dive. Also, when was the last time anyone who plays football enjoyed a one on one with a keeper when they are going to use their feet? Its why players bottle it. they're mental bastards who will get the ball, the man, the pitch, and the first 5 rows as they clear it. Yesterday, Given's powder puff challenges were more of an offering that shows he shouldn't be anywhere near the team now. A keeper should never lose a 50/50. Guzan for Burnley AND Arsenal.
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Sherwood has to make the decision on which of the two is mentally right for the game. It does not matter what they have done before. You need to go into a big game 100% confident and be able to talk your inexperienced defenders through the game.
I think Guzan is suffering from too many beatings over the last three seasons and it has started to affect his game. He still makes great saves and is generally good at coming for the high ball but there is hesitancy that has crept into his game. Also, his distribution of the ball is very poor. If Sherwood believes that Guzan has his confidence back and they can work on some set plays for clearing the ball, I would play him. If not, it would be Given for me.
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I'd go for Guzan.
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Guzan without any doubt.
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I would play Guzan on Sunday and see how he gets on. I like him but I do think he has under performed, maybe he realises the manager is unsure about him
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We have all seen Guzan save our skins quite a few times over the last few years, Sherwood hasn't, he wasn't there when it was just Guzan standing in the way of a deafeat,
He knows about Given far more, probably trusts him more
Apart from a few numpties on here we all know just how good Guzan is, a top class keeper as good as any in the prem
But Sherwood doesn't, he just sees the last 3 months, so he's swapped and changed the keeper and now faces a dilemma, play the best keeper at the club and hope he returns to form or stick with the keeper he's turned to hope he doesn't let him down
Whatever he does Given won't be the first team keeper next season as he isn't good enough on a continual basis as we are now seeing, a good back up keeper but that's it
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Signing that Brentford fella could be ideal. He's one for the future but probably good enough to step up quickly if Brad has an injury or drop in form. I think Brad will come back strongly though. I'm all for buying a new keeper to think of the long term because Given has one year and Steer may not be good enough. But for me, Brad should still be number 1. He just needs someone who will keep him on his toes.
If we're looking to find a keeper who is guaranteed to be better than Guzan right off the bat, we'll probably have to spend about 10 million (short of some exceptional scouting). I think left back and midfield are far more pressing concerns.
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One thing I would ensure Guzan does on the pitch is always play safety first when dealing with back passes. Just punt the fucking thing up the field. No nonsense.
By the same token our defenders have to be a bit more composed on the ball and not retreat to the keeper so much. Against City they persistently played it back to Guzan and put him under pressure. He did fuck up and it was monumental but there was a moment a little later in the game when Okore thundered a back-pass to Guzan, who understandably was panicked in controlling and clearing it, but if you can see your keeper is struggling with his kicking, why keep passing it back to him??
Some of our defenders have made life very difficult for both our keepers to be fair. And it's purely sloppiness and poor mistakes. Even Given was given the ball in situations he didn't appreciate yesterday.
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RE a new keeper it depends. In reality apart from a dip in form the last few months, Guzan has been on a par with any keeper outside the top 4 and maybe Loris. Certainly better than Mingolet for example at Liverpool who you would think would have a solid keeper. So he has been solid, consistent, decent on crosses but I don't think ever capable of those incredible stops the top keepers make. To replace him, you need to get one of them, or a young one with potential. The german lad we have been linked with looks a right beast for example, and at 22 is clearly one for the future. Begovic from Stoke would be great but must be a shoe in for United or Arsenal, who both have keeper issues. But it is going to cost big money to get something significantly better. A top centre half with pace and positional sense to replace Vlaar would be much more important for me.
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Apart from this incredible stop which is one of the best saves i've seen any Villa keeper make.
(http://i.imgflip.com/t28u.gif)
Second save here isn't shoddy either, Given got beaten a couple of weeks earlier by a near identical shot against Everton before he was dropped for Guzan.
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1375941/Guzan1stHalfSaves.gif)
Also lacking in the shoddy department
(http://i.imgflip.com/t2xa.gif)(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2347667/Guzan_Stop.gif)
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Fair point, well made! Although strengthens the argument that unless really top drawer, there is little point spending big on a keeper.
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I want us to stick with Guzan for now and hope it's just a blip formwise, but then I have a lot of love for him so i'm biased as I think he's ace!
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Apart from this incredible stop which is one of the best saves i've seen any Villa keeper make.
(http://i.imgflip.com/t28u.gif)
Second save here isn't shoddy either, Given got beaten a couple of weeks earlier by a near identical shot against Everton before he was dropped for Guzan.
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1375941/Guzan1stHalfSaves.gif)
Also lacking in the shoddy department
(http://i.imgflip.com/t2xa.gif)(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2347667/Guzan_Stop.gif)
The save he made against Norwich away last season ended up giving us the win instead of a draw, best save I've seen him make.
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If Guzan's in for the Burnley match and looks confident he may still make Wembley. If Given plays and makes any kind of error the fans will get on his back.
Lets hope that neither have a poor game which will raise spirits dramatically for the 30th May.
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With goalkeepers it's always more about the ones they should have saved or done better with than the ones did well with. And in recent weeks we've seen both our keepers make mental errors they simply shouldn't be making and especially considering the position we were in. It won't surprise me to see Sherwood look for a new keeper, but I still think he'll play Brad this weekend and Shay in the final.
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He'll play Given in the final. I honestly think it will be due to sentiment.
Sherwood was a mentor at Blackburn when club captain and Given missed out in 2011 and will not get another chance.
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It would be crazy to write Guzan off because of a drop in form. He needed a kick in the backside to make him sort himself out, he duly got that and now if he gets another chance, I expect him to step up his game.
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If Given plays against Burnley then we know he'll be playing against Arsenal; if Guzan plays against Burnley then I'd like to think that he's leaving his options open (on the basis that goalkeepers don't need to be rested).
Given clearly isn't overly confident in some areas of his game, so would conceding 6 against Southampton have any further negative affect on his confidence? Would he need to play against Burnley to put the result behind him or would TS actually consider resting him for the final?
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It would be crazy to write Guzan off because of a drop in form. He needed a kick in the backside to make him sort himself out, he duly got that and now if he gets another chance, I expect him to step up his game.
I agree. I want to see genuine competition for him at the club, but I don't want him gone.
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I don't think it's too difficult a decision. Guzan v Burnley. If he plays well, keep him in for the final. If he doesn't, put Given back. I reckon this is what will happen.
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Don't know who will play against Burnley but I suspect he will stick with Given
But 100% Given will play in the Final unless injured
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So, do we play a keeper who has started to train 2 days before the Final?
Or do we play Guzan who hasn't played since Man City away?
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Guzan for me. Play your best team and win the cup. Simple.
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Guzan for me. Play your best team and win the cup. Simple.
Agreed. The last time Shay played he conceded 6, as well. Thrown in Brad.
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Shay Given could be fit to face Arsenal in the FA Cup final.
Given missed the Burnley defeat with a groin injury.
Tim Sherwood was concerned about the keeper's fitness as he faced the press following the Clarets match.
But he was more upbeat on the former Man City stopper as he discussed Wembley matters with the media on the eve of the Arsenal game.
Sherwood revealed that Given is now back in training at Bodymoor Heath as the team gear up for the Gunners clash.
Sherwood also confirmed that Kieran Richardson is back in training too.
Richardson has been absent with the Southampton and Burnley games with a calf issue.
But Sherwood describes his chances of making the showpiece final as "a possibility."
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Given may be fit..mmmmm....Brad Guzan has probably been told he's in already. Richardson seems to have a good chance as well.
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The prospect of playing Given worries me far more than Guzan.
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Off the back of a groin problem I would not risk Given. He'll not be 100%. No chance.
Guzan should play.
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Off the back of a groin problem I would not risk Given. He'll not be 100%. No chance.
Guzan should play.
Same for me.
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Absolutely hope Guzan plays. Others have made these points already but I don't trust Given rushing back from injury after the Euro's and this is a fairytale story for Guzan if it comes through. Balance in the universe will be restored after 2010.
Saying that, I've had a feeling that dropping Guzan after the Man City game was more Guzan himself than Sherwood, seemed especially odd after Tim said in a press conference he would stick with Brad and then did exactly the opposite. I wonder if Guzan told him he wasn't feeling confident and thought Given should play for the good of the team.
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Given has always taken a long time to get over muscle strains and now at his age it will take longer still. It's too big a risk to pick him.
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Given has always taken a long time to get over muscle strains and now at his age it will take longer still. It's too big a risk to pick him.
Yeah. If he's got to be get across and up to stop the ball hitting the top corner he's not going to get near it. Not this soon after a groin injury at his age. I'd even put Steer ahead of him.
But Guzan would be fired up for the game I'd hope.
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Off the back of a groin problem I would not risk Given. He'll not be 100%. No chance.
Guzan should play.
Given was abysmal in Euro 2012 struggling with a groin injury, if in doubt he must be dropped.
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I'm wondering if Tim is trying to get into the teams heads...
I can't believe they have much confidence in Steer and with Givens age and injury...
All of a sudden, big bad Guzan is in goal on Saturday, team confidence lifted....
Guzan full of confidence wanting to prove a point
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Steer is cup tied anyway.
Hopefully it's Guzan.
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Guzan with Given on the bench would be my bet and what I want to see anyway.
Brad will be desperate to make amends for the Man. City mistake and I'd be more confident of him repelling wave after wave of Arsenal attack than Given.
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I hope it's Guzan.
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I'd stick with Given he's played every round so it's meant to be.
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You don't play a goalkeeper who's only returned from injury 2 days ago in an FA Cup Final. Our defence is already low on confidence and I really can't see how Given will bring anything to the team if he's not at 100%...he makes me nervous when he's fit so god knows what it must feel like playing in front of him. It's easy to make an argument fuelled with sentiment and for that amazing save against Leicester, but we may well have to repel wave after wave of Arsenal attacks at some point on Saturday so we need a keeper bang on in form, fully focused and not having an injury in the back of their minds to worry about.
I can only hope Guzan is fully fit and in the right state of mind to step back into the action.
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Absolutely hope Guzan plays. Others have made these points already but I don't trust Given rushing back from injury after the Euro's and this is a fairytale story for Guzan if it comes through. Balance in the universe will be restored after 2010.
And neither should Sherwood. Shay is one of those players who simply cannot be the best judge of his own injuries as he has proven in the past. He may want to play for us, just like he did the Republic, and believe he is fit, but nobody should take his word for it. The medical staff need to make the call, nobody wants Shay to have another humiliating game because he is injured. Him or us.
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It will be Guzan and he will pull of one of his miracle saves to win us the cup
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It will be Guzan and he will pull of one of his miracle saves to win us the cup
Yes, hopefully Guzan. Tim is not going to get sentimental over positions, it will for the good of the team. Thats prob. why Steer played, didnt want two injuried keepers!
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Given is back in training now Sherwood said
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I reckon Given will play. I think Sherwood prefers him.
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I reckon Given will play. I think Sherwood prefers him.
I agree. And what chance an early goalkeeper substitution in the first half due to injury, wouldn't be the first time in a final....
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I reckon Given will play. I think Sherwood prefers him.
I agree. And what chance an early goalkeeper substitution in the first half due to injury, wouldn't be the first time in a final....
I wonder if the fates might see Steer take on the Spink role.
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I reckon Given will play. I think Sherwood prefers him.
I agree. And what chance an early goalkeeper substitution in the first half due to injury, wouldn't be the first time in a final....
I wonder if the fates might see Steer take on the Spink role.
He can't play, so he definitely won't.
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I reckon Given will play. I think Sherwood prefers him.
I agree. And what chance an early goalkeeper substitution in the first half due to injury, wouldn't be the first time in a final....
I wonder if the fates might see Steer take on the Spink role.
He can't play, so he definitely won't.
Ah yes. I forget about that. Well, maybe in a couple of years in the Champions League Final then.
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Stop with all these bad vibes about the keeper.
Whoever plays is going to keep a clean sheet.
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SSN: Given passed medical and fit to play.
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SSN: Given passed medical and fit to play.
I have a bad feeling about this.
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SSN: Given passed medical and fit to play.
I have a bad feeling about this.
he hasn't let us down in the FA Cup. I am sure he'll come through tomorrow
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SSN: Given passed medical and fit to play.
I have a bad feeling about this.
he hasn't let us down in the FA Cup. I am sure he'll come through tomorrow
It is him telling people he has recovered when he actually hasn't that worries me. He has previous after all.
Fingers crossed he really is fit.
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I feel that if we change keepers so will our luck so lets not do that, most of the outfield players have featured in some form or another so they don't count.
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Here's a scenario - 119 minutes, scores level. We've made 2 subs.
Given is playing but do you bring on Brad for the penalties?
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Your name is Louis van Gaal and I claim my £5.
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Here's a scenario - 119 minutes, scores level. We've made 2 subs.
Given is playing but do you bring on Brad for the penalties?
Yes.
Though in recent years Brad's not been fantastic with saving pens. I dunno, in a shootout situation he might be better. But has he saved a Pen since the Sunderland shootout?
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If we get to 119 minutes and have a change left we should definitely change them! Guzan is bigger and dives further. Given is useless on pens. Useless.
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You'd definitely change it on 119 mins if nothing else other than to spook the arsenal players.
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I'd fancy Guzan to save two out of five, Guzan would psyche some of the players out.
Given since he did his shoulder at City dosen't have the reach to spring around his goal anymore.
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Chap was telling me today that in the Guardian both Guzan & Given have been told they can go, so they can look for another club.
Haven't read the article, so this is hearsay.
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If you had read it in the paper it would have still been hearsay.
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If you had read it in the paper it would have still been hearsay.
Being a touch picky there, mate
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Yeah probably but some people take what they read literally and there's a reason for my username. Most of us are probably a bit touchy today and I've had to face Blues and Albion fans. Not been a good day.
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Blues and Albiyun would cut off their arm to reach the cup final. So ignore them.
Both keepers should be sold if Sherwood doesn't trust Guzan the answer is not Given. So replace both.
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Both of them should go.Not commanding enough, not good enough.
I always prefer a taller goalkeeper between the sticks, it gives presence and authority to the defence.
Given has always been a good shot stopper, and Guzan latterly, but neither instill confidence and I fully expect them both to go in the summer.
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Chap was telling me today that in the Guardian both Guzan & Given have been told they can go, so they can look for another club.
Haven't read the article, so this is hearsay.
It wouldn't surprise me if we'd decided they both weren't good enough, but I don't see what the point is telling Shay Given, aged 40, and with a year left of a highly lucrative 5-year deal to go and find a new club.
He'll just say "right you are, boss" then sit on his arse coining in 40k a week for doing shit all.
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It's because of their hatred for us that means their revelling in this. Funnily enough the thing that bugged me the most was hearing an Albion fan say they hate us and we hate them. I don't hate Albion because they're not worthy of being hated. I couldn't care less about them.
It would be a bit of a shame if Guzan has played his last game and only acceptable for me if he's replaced by someone better. I don't think there's many of those that we could realistically get. Could we get Begovic?
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Chap was telling me today that in the Guardian both Guzan & Given have been told they can go, so they can look for another club.
Haven't read the article, so this is hearsay.
It wouldn't surprise me if we'd decided they both weren't good enough, but I don't see what the point is telling Shay Given, aged 40, and with a year left of a highly lucrative 5-year deal to go and find a new club.
He'll just say "right you are, boss" then sit on his arse coining in 40k a week for doing shit all.
Perhaps. Athough I think Given would rather go somewhere to play for 1-2 seasons before jacking it in and switching to coaching. I think if we put him on the market there will be handful of clubs interested, perhaps one of the promoted sides. We could forgo a fee and just get him off the books. If he's got sense he'll take a drop in pay to play games. I think Given's one of those rare sorts who would rather earn 20k a week playing than 40k not.
Could be wrong though.
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I would personally like Guzan to stay. I think we'll do well to attract and afford anyone better. The young lad from Brentford, or Heaton would be options. Young and good enough to push Guzan all the way for No 1.
That said I just wonder whether the City game (and a few dodgy games before that) haven't exactly impressed Timmy.
After the last 3 games I suspect Sherwood could be brutal with the axe. Can't blame him either. I do suspect 1-2 of the casualties might be a shame though. Gil being one.
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I'd hate to see Brad go, if Sherwood has made his mind up on that one blunder, I feel he'll have made a huge mistake.
Over the past few seasons Brad has probably helped us achieve as many points as anyone behind Benteke. I rate him as highly as anyone in this league and he still has time to improve.
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I do not understand why people say that we would do well to get better than Guzan and then list a few playing in the PL.
The best goalkeepers are not British and have not been for years. Most in the PL are foreign and we should be looking overseas. As has been said about outfield players, you can get better value from overseas, so why not a goalkeeper.
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I'd hate to see Brad go, if Sherwood has made his mind up on that one blunder, I feel he'll have made a huge mistake.
Over the past few seasons Brad has probably helped us achieve as many points as anyone behind Benteke. I rate him as highly as anyone in this league and he still has time to improve.
You think he is as good as De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Cortouis, Hart??
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I do not understand why people say that we would do well to get better than Guzan and then list a few playing in the PL.
The best goalkeepers are not British and have not been for years. Most in the PL are foreign and we should be looking overseas. As has been said about outfield players, you can get better value from overseas, so why not a goalkeeper.
You are spot on mate but the issue is that bringing in a player from another league means they may take months to settle in, get used to playing in different league,etc
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I do not understand why people say that we would do well to get better than Guzan and then list a few playing in the PL.
The best goalkeepers are not British and have not been for years. Most in the PL are foreign and we should be looking overseas. As has been said about outfield players, you can get better value from overseas, so why not a goalkeeper.
You are spot on mate but the issue is that bringing in a player from another league means they may take months to settle in, get used to playing in different league,etc
And when you take the risk then you sometimes end up with a Benteke, Carew, Mellberg or Yorke.
And it's not as if signing Premier League players is some sort of guarantee of success. Do you think if we'd spent the same amount abroad that we spent on Curtis Davies, Nigel Reo-Coker or Steve Sidwell that we'd have ended up with any worse value?
I'll take our chances with the foreign types thank you very much.
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I'd hate to see Brad go, if Sherwood has made his mind up on that one blunder, I feel he'll have made a huge mistake.
Over the past few seasons Brad has probably helped us achieve as many points as anyone behind Benteke. I rate him as highly as anyone in this league and he still has time to improve.
You think he is as good as De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Cortouis, Hart??
I do. It's easy to ignore the fact that goalkeepers in crap teams tend to see much more action than those at the top.
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I'd hate to see Brad go, if Sherwood has made his mind up on that one blunder, I feel he'll have made a huge mistake.
Over the past few seasons Brad has probably helped us achieve as many points as anyone behind Benteke. I rate him as highly as anyone in this league and he still has time to improve.
You think he is as good as De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Cortouis, Hart??
I do. It's easy to ignore the fact that goalkeepers in crap teams tend to see much more action than those at the top.
We can expect bids from Real Madrid, Man United,etc for Brad then very soon then
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I do not understand why people say that we would do well to get better than Guzan and then list a few playing in the PL.
The best goalkeepers are not British and have not been for years. Most in the PL are foreign and we should be looking overseas. As has been said about outfield players, you can get better value from overseas, so why not a goalkeeper.
You are spot on mate but the issue is that bringing in a player from another league means they may take months to settle in, get used to playing in different league,etc
It is easier to adapt as a goalkeeper. Scouting is the key into buying a keeper that suits the PL. You do not buy one that that is very good at half the attributes required and weak on the others. You go for good all round with potential to improve some to very good/excellent.
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I'd hate to see Brad go, if Sherwood has made his mind up on that one blunder, I feel he'll have made a huge mistake.
Over the past few seasons Brad has probably helped us achieve as many points as anyone behind Benteke. I rate him as highly as anyone in this league and he still has time to improve.
You think he is as good as De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Cortouis, Hart??
I do. It's easy to ignore the fact that goalkeepers in crap teams tend to see much more action than those at the top.
We can expect bids from Real Madrid, Man United,etc for Brad then very soon then
Real Madrid signed Jonathan woodgate so anything is possible.
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I wonder was Given actually fully fit yesterday? He seemed to be even less mobile than usual. It reminded me a bit of his performances in Euro 2012, he wasn't completely culpable for any of the nine goals he let in during those games but a fully fit keeper would have at least kept a few out (I remember the first goal Italy scored against Eire was a header by the smallest player on the pitch inside the six yard box). He admitted in a newspaper column a few months later that he lied to the medical staff about his fitness. Incredible really that he has managed to get back into the Irish team after that.
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I thought Given was as poor as everyone else yesterday, beaten at his near post twice, from 30 yards and a soft header.
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I thought Given was as poor as everyone else yesterday, beaten at his near post twice, from 30 yards and a soft header.
Gotta disagree I am afraid he was completely unsighted for the first, second was hit so hard and swerved so much you could have had Given, Guzan and Steer in goal and they wouldn't have saved it, third was Bentekes fault for giving Mertesacker a free header and the fourth Bacuna gave Giroud the freedom of Wembley.....
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For the one where he was beaten from 30 yards, it would be very harsh to blame him for that. Sometimes you just have to give the opposition credit for a top class strike.
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Tony has a strop
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-keeper-blasted-tony-9387629
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Cascarino today
“I strongly resent Shay’s suggestion that I had no affiliation for Ireland.
“Because I have an Italian surname, I think I am an easy target when people discuss players born outside Ireland who played for the team – but I would expect more from Shay.”
He went on to say: "I am one for tackling things head on, so when we next bump into each other, I will have it out with him,” he said.
“He should check his facts, because I was not only proud to play for Ireland, but qualified to do so.
“I take it quite personally when people call that into question.”
Casacrino in his own book
Republic of Ireland striker Tony Cascarino has revealed that he was never qualified to represent the Emerald Isle.
The former Chelsea, Aston villa, Celtic, Marseille and Nancy striker won 88 caps for the Republic on the strength of a maternal grandfather from Westport, Michael O'Malley.
However, in his autobiography 'Full Time: The Secret life of Tony Cascarino', he now admits that O'Malley was not his mother's natural father, rendering him ineligible under international rules.
Cascarino's mother had been aware of the fact throughout his career, but only told him after he had retired from international football.
"I didn't qualify for Ireland," writes Cascarino. "I was a fraud. A fake Irishman."
Cascarino also reveals that he was turned down for an Irish passport in 1985, but carried on playing regardless.
"It seemed odd but I didn't follow it up," said Cascarino.
"I didn't need to. I had already won three international caps and for the next 12 years I continued playing for Ireland with my British passport."
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Ha ha what a loser, he's so stupid he probably doesn't remember writing that
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Cascarino today
“I strongly resent Shay’s suggestion that I had no affiliation for Ireland.
“Because I have an Italian surname, I think I am an easy target when people discuss players born outside Ireland who played for the team – but I would expect more from Shay.”
He went on to say: "I am one for tackling things head on, so when we next bump into each other, I will have it out with him,” he said.
“He should check his facts, because I was not only proud to play for Ireland, but qualified to do so.
“I take it quite personally when people call that into question.”
Casacrino in his own book
Republic of Ireland striker Tony Cascarino has revealed that he was never qualified to represent the Emerald Isle.
The former Chelsea, Aston villa, Celtic, Marseille and Nancy striker won 88 caps for the Republic on the strength of a maternal grandfather from Westport, Michael O'Malley.
However, in his autobiography 'Full Time: The Secret life of Tony Cascarino', he now admits that O'Malley was not his mother's natural father, rendering him ineligible under international rules.
Cascarino's mother had been aware of the fact throughout his career, but only told him after he had retired from international football.
"I didn't qualify for Ireland," writes Cascarino. "I was a fraud. A fake Irishman."
Cascarino also reveals that he was turned down for an Irish passport in 1985, but carried on playing regardless.
"It seemed odd but I didn't follow it up," said Cascarino.
"I didn't need to. I had already won three international caps and for the next 12 years I continued playing for Ireland with my British passport."
Lol, I bet Shay is quite looking forward to their meeting ;D
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Ivo was right.
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He clearly didn't qualify as a top flight centre forward from what I saw, the useless oaf.
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He clearly didn't qualify as a top flight centre forward from what I saw, the useless oaf.
He did score one of the funniest goals ever seen at Villa Park though,
I remember when it hit the back of the net more people were laughing than cheering
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Neither. Heaton please.
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He clearly didn't qualify as a top flight centre forward from what I saw, the useless oaf.
He did score one of the funniest goals ever seen at Villa Park though,
I remember when it hit the back of the net more people were laughing than cheering
Was that against Derby at the Holte end? A goal that it would be fair to describe as 'a bit scrappy'?
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I have never met a fake Irishman. Even the Honduran guy at Sao Paulo airport said he was 1/125 Irish and I believed him! The fakest one our Brazilian Villain Gary even if he has a broad Galway accent and ginger hair!
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He clearly didn't qualify as a top flight centre forward from what I saw, the useless oaf.
He did score one of the funniest goals ever seen at Villa Park though,
I remember when it hit the back of the net more people were laughing than cheering
Was that against Derby at the Holte end? A goal that it would be fair to describe as 'a bit scrappy'?
Don't know who it was against but it sounds about right,
The ball pin balling around players falling over in the box then Cascarino toe punts it in
You had to be there
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I know he did, but I can honestly say that I don't remember him scoring for us.
How many did he actually score?
The one thing I do remember is my Dad saying we should have bought the other one, meaning Sheringham, too.
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11 league goals and 1 cup goal.
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Guzan played 90 minutes for the USA as they beat Netherlands 4-3.
USA were trailing 3-2 after 89 minutes.
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It could be argued that the signing of Cascarino directly contributed to our losing the title in 1989-90. We changed our way of playing when he he joined and were never the same side again - Although his one bit of brilliance was the set up for Chrissy Chrissy Prices winning goal at the Arse.
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He clearly didn't qualify as a top flight centre forward from what I saw, the useless oaf.
He did score one of the funniest goals ever seen at Villa Park though,
I remember when it hit the back of the net more people were laughing than cheering
Was that against Derby at the Holte end? A goal that it would be fair to describe as 'a bit scrappy'?
Yes 3-2 we won that day. And described by reporters as 'giving 5 goal thrillers a bad name.'
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He clearly didn't qualify as a top flight centre forward from what I saw, the useless oaf.
He did score one of the funniest goals ever seen at Villa Park though,
I remember when it hit the back of the net more people were laughing than cheering
Was that against Derby at the Holte end? A goal that it would be fair to describe as 'a bit scrappy'?
Yes 3-2 we won that day. And described by reporters as 'giving 5 goal thrillers a bad name.'
Yep it was the most hilarious six yard box scramble ever with him eventually getting one of his hooves on it. It was when the pitch was also going through one of its more agricultural phases which just added to the hilarity. Oh yes and the game was complete bobbins as well.
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HITC (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/06/10/usa-player-ratings-v-germany-aston-villa-players-past-and-presen/)
Captain Michael Bradley (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/topic/michael-bradley/) and goalkeeper Brad Guzan (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/topic/brad-guzan/) both starred as Jurgen Klinsmann's men secured a shock 2-1 friendly win in Cologne.
Brad Guzan 7.5/10 – Put his Aston Villa (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/topic/aston-villa-fc/) troubles aside with a huge game, making a number of crucial saves to help keep the US in the match.
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Ha ha what a loser, he's so stupid he probably doesn't remember writing that
Doesn't remember his ghost writer writing it more like.
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Appears Given is off to Boro on a free transfer, which is a good move for him and us.
New keeper on their way at some point this summer.
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Wonder how much of his 60k a week for his remaining 12 months we have handed over.
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Hopefully it will be by mutual consent having let him leave on a free transfer. He can negotiate his own wage demands at a new club without them having to pay a fee.
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Assuming its true its a genuine win/win. Good luck Shay.
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Hopefully it will be by mutual consent having let him leave on a free transfer. He can negotiate his own wage demands at a new club without them having to pay a fee.
Even in that scenario, we would still be handing over a fair wedge of the final year of his contract.
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Phew, couldn't cope watching him flap at crosses all next season
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If true good luck Shay.
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Im hearing it's Stoke not Boro
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Im hearing it's Stoke not Boro
Same difference.
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Im hearing it's Stoke not Boro
Same difference.
Because play in red and white? Both in areas you wouldn't want to live? Where the women are marginally more attractive than your house pet?
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I'm surprised Stoke are in for him. Begovic seems to be on his way out. I wonder whether they're ready to give Butland the no 1 jersey, or whether Hughes will actually play Given for a year perhaps.
If I were Shay I'd be wanting to be first choice somewhere. He'd certainly have got that at Boro.
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There was a report saying that Butland would be their first choice.