Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: adrenachrome on February 24, 2015, 05:12:55 PM

Title: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: adrenachrome on February 24, 2015, 05:12:55 PM
Brum Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-still-made-loss-8711554)

Quote
Aston Villa still made a loss - but a much improved one - in latest set of financial accounts

Loss has gone from £51.8m to £3.9m in the year ending May 2014


    16:11, 24 February 2015
    By Mat Kendrick


 Aston Villa's latest accounts show that they made a loss of £3.9 million in the year ending May 2014.

It is a £47.9m improvement on the previous year when they posted losses of £51.8 million.

According to a statement on the club's official website, the reduction was due in part to a £33.2m increase in turnover to £116.9m.

There was also a £12.9m reduction in operating expenses to £121.7m, which resulted in an operating loss of £4.8m compared to £50.9m for the previous year.

A new broadcasting deal accounted for much of the increased turnover, although a boost in Villa's commercial and sponsorship revenues also played a part.

The club reports that the accounts also reflect the December 2013 conversion of £90.1m of loan notes into called up share capital.

The consolidated balance sheet at May 31, 2014 shows net assets of £2.1m compared to net liabilities of £84.2m at May 31, 2013.

Robin Russell, chief financial officer, said: "We are very pleased to be able to report improved results after a period of heavy financial losses.

"By controlling costs we have been able to take advantage of the new Premier League broadcasting deal to bring the club closer to self-sufficiency.

"Compliance with Financial Fair Play continues to be a key component of our planning and we remain focused on growing the club in a responsible and sustainable way."

Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: eamonn on February 24, 2015, 05:37:43 PM
Risso, Villadawg (come back!), Adam, Simon Ward, er, etc. start your engines...
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 05:39:41 PM
Brilliant news. We've finally managed to balance the books at the probable expense of our Premier league status.
Well Done all.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ozzjim on February 24, 2015, 05:50:07 PM
And 90 million out of Lerner's pocket of course.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on February 24, 2015, 05:51:10 PM
Great. The parachute payments and mass exodus of players during the summer may put us into the black for a year to two as we struggle in the Championship.

Well done everyone involved!

Twats.

Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithe on February 24, 2015, 05:52:02 PM
Brilliant news. We've finally managed to balance the books at the probable expense of our Premier league status.
Well Done all.

Just a short push now to the Deloitte Top 20 rich list and the Sherpa Van trophy.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: dekko on February 24, 2015, 05:54:52 PM
IM SO SO HAPPY ABOUT THIS NEWS
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: AV82EC on February 24, 2015, 05:55:09 PM
Well at least the books balance on P& L and balance sheet and we've stopped haemorrhaging cash. I'd be interested to see the split of that increase between TV and Commercial revenue.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2015, 05:56:33 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: peter w on February 24, 2015, 05:56:39 PM
I'm expecting to see the General back at any time.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Hairbandinho on February 24, 2015, 05:58:29 PM
Congrats to the club that they managed to do this, at the likely cost of being relegated

Thus missing out on the biggest TV pay deal ever.

Top notch work.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: dekko on February 24, 2015, 06:05:17 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

Agreed
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: peter w on February 24, 2015, 06:07:54 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

Wwe may have needed to do it but not at the speed in which it has been done. look at the league table.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ads on February 24, 2015, 06:10:59 PM
We won't be relegated, sI this taken in the round, can only be good.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2015, 06:12:32 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

Wwe may have needed to do it but not at the speed in which it has been done. look at the league table.

Was it that quick though?  If we'd spent as much as we have but spent it well and, over the 3 managers, following a single plan, would we have  suffered so much?

This is the point, everything from the end of mon's last season has been bad management but it has been underfunded to the extent that many suggest.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 24, 2015, 06:14:30 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

Nail on head.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: peter w on February 24, 2015, 06:17:38 PM
Yes it was quick. The size of the debt meant something had to be done as wage to turnover was running at something crazy like 86%. But after Bent was bought to save the season our transfer policy was clearly cheap and young. It was always going to be risky and Lambert looked like he had a handle on it early in his reign. Anyway, that team needed experience added to it - and I don't just mean a 35 year-old but good proven players that would cost in the region of £40k per week. We were never looking there and so inevitably we get to where we are now.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2015, 06:24:43 PM
Yes it was quick. The size of the debt meant something had to be done as wage to turnover was running at something crazy like 86%. But after Bent was bought to save the season our transfer policy was clearly cheap and young. It was always going to be risky and Lambert looked like he had a handle on it early in his reign. Anyway, that team needed experience added to it - and I don't just mean a 35 year-old but good proven players that would cost in the region of £40k per week. We were never looking there and so inevitably we get to where we are now.

Cheap and young, N'zogbia? Given?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 24, 2015, 06:27:49 PM
Now that we are here, my only concern is us being once again to be able to operate like a PL football club. This had to be done because the situation was crippling us, or would have. So when we stay up I would expect us to be shopping more consistently at better quality department store, while still on occasion picking up the odd bargain here and there.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: eamonn on February 24, 2015, 06:28:36 PM
Yes it was quick. The size of the debt meant something had to be done as wage to turnover was running at something crazy like 86%. But after Bent was bought to save the season our transfer policy was clearly cheap and young. It was always going to be risky and Lambert looked like he had a handle on it early in his reign. Anyway, that team needed experience added to it - and I don't just mean a 35 year-old but good proven players that would cost in the region of £40k per week. We were never looking there and so inevitably we get to where we are now.

Cheap and young, N'zogbia? Given?

Exactly - Lerner, and by extension, Villa, have been bitten with nearly every £40k+ a week player that has been signed this decade. Through injury, bad form, poor motivation or whatever else, almost all of them have only left after seeing out most of their generous contracts with feck-all resale value. It's a wretched record, unsustainable and it's hardly suprising that Lerner had enough of it.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on February 24, 2015, 06:29:24 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

What he should have done is realizing the accounts were headed in the right direction spent much more this January to insure our survival. That doesn't mean 50million losses a year, it means appropriate spending last month when it was absolutely clear we would be at terrible risk of relegation unless we spent.

I am almost tempted to believe Lerner deliberately waited until after the window was closed to fire lambert so he wouldn't have to face the obvious questions about players needed to stay up from the new manager.

He has chosen to roll the dice yet again with us staying up without decent spending in January. I think his and our luck has run out. He made a bad decision and I blame him for it.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 06:30:49 PM
Lerner set the tone I'm afraid.
You cannot run a club from the other side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: eamonn on February 24, 2015, 06:42:40 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

What he should have done is realizing the accounts were headed in the right direction spent much more this January to insure our survival. That doesn't mean 50million losses a year, it means appropriate spending last month when it was absolutely clear we would be at terrible risk of relegation unless we spent.

I am almost tempted to believe Lerner deliberately waited until after the window was closed to fire lambert so he wouldn't have to face the obvious questions about players needed to stay up from the new manager.

He has chosen to roll the dice yet again with us staying up without decent spending in January. I think his and our luck has run out. He made a bad decision and I blame him for it.


Well we definitely tried to sign Ricky Lambert at least and very likely, more. After the Arsenal horror-show Lambert (Paul) was talking about the possibility of more than one coming in (which was after Gil and Sinclair). Convincing players to come, without offering them crazy wages which has got us where we are, is another matter.

Besides, Lambert was happy enough to shop in Lidl as it's all he's ever done.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 24, 2015, 06:48:07 PM
Lerner set the tone I'm afraid.
You cannot run a club from the other side of the Atlantic.

Like the Glazers don't?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2015, 06:52:25 PM
Lerner set the tone I'm afraid.
You cannot run a club from the other side of the Atlantic.

Like the Glazers don't?

Joe Lewis is totally hands on at Tottenham as well isn't he.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 24, 2015, 06:55:49 PM
Lerner set the tone I'm afraid.
You cannot run a club from the other side of the Atlantic.

Like the Glazers don't?

Joe Lewis is totally hands on at Tottenham as well isn't he.

And the Liverpool owners.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 24, 2015, 07:00:20 PM
All of which shows that it doesn't matter where the board meetings are held or the owner spends matchday as long as they right people are in charge and the proper strategy implemented. Which is Randy's biggest failing.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 07:04:08 PM
Lerner set the tone I'm afraid.
You cannot run a club from the other side of the Atlantic.

Like the Glazers don't?
You cannot compare us to them or Liverpool , they are global giants with well established boards , DoF's etc etc . Spurs are lucky they have such a brilliant CEO as Daniel Levy.
Btw I'm pretty sure the glazers and the pool owners attend far more than Lerner does .
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 24, 2015, 07:05:43 PM
Lerner set the tone I'm afraid.
You cannot run a club from the other side of the Atlantic.

Like the Glazers don't?
You cannot compare us to them or Liverpool , they are global giants with well established boards , DoF's etc etc . Spurs are lucky they have such a brilliant CEO as Daniel Levy.
Btw I'm pretty sure the glazers and the pool owners attend far more than Lerner does .

So as Dave said, if you have the right people and structure in place, it doesn't matter where the owner lives. See also Southampton, if you want another club to compare to.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 07:06:45 PM
But we don't . Therein lieth the problem.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dave on February 24, 2015, 07:12:35 PM
But we don't . Therein lieth the problem.
Which is completely different to what you have been saying.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 07:15:49 PM
But we don't . Therein lieth the problem.
Which is completely different to what you have been saying.
Not really. Lerner cannot run this club remotely. It worked when he was over here and involved and living out beyond coleshill and attending games . It set the tone and the vibrant culture at the club during the MON halcyon era.
Ever since he's retreated further and further it's been a steady decline.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ad@m on February 24, 2015, 07:18:42 PM
But we don't . Therein lieth the problem.
Which is completely different to what you have been saying.
Not really. Lerner cannot run this club remotely. It worked when he was over here and involved and living out beyond coleshill and attending games . It set the tone and the vibrant culture at the club during the MON halcyon era.
Ever since he's retreated further and further it's been a steady decline.

So it has nothing to do with him giving MON an open cheque book but then having to reign the spending in since MON wasted all his money?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ger Regan on February 24, 2015, 07:20:09 PM
But we don't . Therein lieth the problem.
Which is completely different to what you have been saying.
Not really. Lerner cannot run this club remotely. It worked when he was over here and involved and living out beyond coleshill and attending games . It set the tone and the vibrant culture at the club during the MON halcyon era.
Ever since he's retreated further and further it's been a steady decline.
You do realise that the losses built up during the time it was "working" while he was attending more often is the main reason we're in the mess we're in now? So no, it didn't really work when he was over here either.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2015, 07:20:14 PM
The club have done the same thing that they've in the last couple of years of releasing snippets of the accounts before the actual results are available to download online.  It's quite mind boggling that they've still made a loss, albeit a greatly reduced one, even after all the cost cutting and with the increase in TV money as well.

Robin Russell said: "Compliance with Financial Fair Play continues to be a key component of our planning and we remain focused on growing the club in a responsible and sustainable way".

I have to say, what we're going through now doesn't feel very responsible or sustainable, and if we go down this season, that's really going to undo everything.  Be interesting to see what the figures for non-TV income are, and what the wages figure looks like.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 24, 2015, 07:22:10 PM
But we don't . Therein lieth the problem.
Which is completely different to what you have been saying.
Not really. Lerner cannot run this club remotely. It worked when he was over here and involved and living out beyond coleshill and attending games . It set the tone and the vibrant culture at the club during the MON halcyon era.
Ever since he's retreated further and further it's been a steady decline.

No, you said it's 'not possible to run a club from the other side of the Atlantic'.  It is, as proven by other clubs, as long as you have the right people in place. We haven't had. Hopefully now Tom Fox seems to be completely in charge of all parts of the club this will change.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 07:27:31 PM
Tom Fox from what I've heard is a good commercial man but in terms of his football knowledge ?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 24, 2015, 07:33:46 PM
Tom Fox from what I've heard is a good commercial man but in terms of his football knowledge ?

If he appoints the right people around him, it doesn't matter does it?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: brian green on February 24, 2015, 07:38:01 PM
I am pleased that the club finances are on the mend.   However, we are in the football business and I fear that future finances have been prejudiced by excessively short term solutions.   We are, in my opinion, like a dairy farmer who had a big herd of under producing cows.   Half of the cows have gone to the abattoir and the food bill has fallen dramatically.   However, the cows which remain are still underproducing and the milk cheque continues to get smaller.   In my rural homespun non accountant way I think we are locked into the theory of diminishing returns.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: andyh on February 24, 2015, 07:44:00 PM
Tom Fox from what I've heard is a good commercial man but in terms of his football knowledge ?
He could be the greatest commercial guru ever to walk the earth.
But if we are not in the prem next year he may as well be a tramp off the street.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: olaftab on February 24, 2015, 07:59:28 PM
Brum Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-still-made-loss-8711554)

Quote
Aston Villa still made a loss - but a much improved one - in latest set of financial accounts


I am soooooo pleased.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: CJ on February 24, 2015, 08:01:51 PM
Well thank goodness for that. For a moment there I thought we were in trouble.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: KevinGage on February 24, 2015, 08:07:15 PM
Well it has been five years worth of torture, but when you see that shiny new balance sheet in the trophy cabinet it makes it all worthwhile.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2015, 08:08:31 PM
Tom Fox from what I've heard is a good commercial man but in terms of his football knowledge ?

If he appoints the right people around him, it doesn't matter does it?

and there is an open advert for a DoF so he clearly sees that same weakness himself.

That's really the point, lets put the last 4 1/2 years behind us, we have 12 games to stay above Leicester and get a point more than QPR and Burnley.  Do that and the new board, etc can start to show that we're now trying to do things properly.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on February 24, 2015, 09:10:10 PM
Well it has been five years worth of torture, but when you see that shiny new balance sheet in the trophy cabinet it makes it all worthwhile.

I am buying the commemorative video. Sleepless night tonight as I drive around town celebrating with Villa scarfs flying from the windows. What a time to be alive!
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ROBBO on February 24, 2015, 09:11:54 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: KevinGage on February 24, 2015, 09:32:04 PM
Deloittey, Deloittey,
And we're all pissed up
And our numbers don't add up
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 10:39:28 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 24, 2015, 10:41:27 PM
In it's own way this is good new.  In essence, Phase 1 of the process is complete.
Assuming we stay up, I'm struggling to see how Phase 2 will work.  The players leaving this summer will free up some cash but its hardly enough to launch any ambitious transfer/wage plans as any increase in TV money will be the same with all PL clubs (unless shopping exclusively in Europe).

I'm struggling to identify a USP which Villa can exploit to enable us to start moving up the table in a sustainable manner.  Ideas?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 24, 2015, 10:43:58 PM
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI

I agree.  I will temper that by saying, when a DoF is appointed then Sherwood - a young and hungry (hopefully dynamic) coach - is exactly what we would be looking for.  However unfortunately at the moment the DoF is missing.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dave on February 24, 2015, 10:44:22 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI
Who do you think was less qualified from before World War I?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 24, 2015, 10:51:12 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI
Who do you think was less qualified from before World War I?
Tony Barton & Ron Saunders at a guess
Sadly we live in a different era
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: AV82EC on February 24, 2015, 11:07:43 PM
In it's own way this is good new.  In essence, Phase 1 of the process is complete.
Assuming we stay up, I'm struggling to see how Phase 2 will work.  The players leaving this summer will free up some cash but its hardly enough to launch any ambitious transfer/wage plans as any increase in TV money will be the same with all PL clubs (unless shopping exclusively in Europe).

I'm struggling to identify a USP which Villa can exploit to enable us to start moving up the table in a sustainable manner.  Ideas?

The only way to do it is increase commercial income and then improve Matchday revenues. However at Villa I believe that is only possible by improving the on pitch performance which will involve a longer term approach to player recruitment and development a la Soton/Swansea than we've ever shown. Finishing higher up the league and being shown on TV a bit more help with revenues as does Europa League but these increases are at the margins of the step change top 4 would bring and be the only way I can see us improving revenue to fund the transfer/wage plans. I think FFP allows you to run at a loss but not a huge one so that could be used as a method to invest in the squad but ultimately not to the level that makes you competitive above 7th to 10th.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: tomd2103 on February 24, 2015, 11:09:00 PM
In it's own way this is good new.  In essence, Phase 1 of the process is complete.
Assuming we stay up, I'm struggling to see how Phase 2 will work.  The players leaving this summer will free up some cash but its hardly enough to launch any ambitious transfer/wage plans as any increase in TV money will be the same with all PL clubs (unless shopping exclusively in Europe).

I'm struggling to identify a USP which Villa can exploit to enable us to start moving up the table in a sustainable manner.  Ideas?

Aston Villa - The Austerity Years
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: AV82EC on February 24, 2015, 11:18:15 PM
The other thing I've suddenly remembered is that we'd be higher in the Deloitte Money League as they massively underestimated our turnover! Just checked and we'd have been 18th!!

It takes some special kind of fuckwittery to be the 18th richest club in the world and be experiencing what we are at the moment.....
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: OCD on February 24, 2015, 11:44:21 PM
Same position in the league as we are in the richest club list. Yay!

They've done a good job in the business side of the club but they didn't get the balance right and manage the football side well enough. It should have been possible to have this success without jeopardising the immediate future of the club. If Lerner hadn't been in such a rush to try and sell the club last summer, a new manager had been appointed and some funding had been made available to shake up the squad, we may have been in a better position on both sides of the equation. After all, a club doing well on the pitch is going to generate more revenue than one that isn't.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: GarTomas on February 25, 2015, 01:25:01 AM
All of which shows that it doesn't matter where the board meetings are held or the owner spends matchday as long as they right people are in charge and the proper strategy implemented. Which is Randy's biggest failing.

This.  The lack of putting the current approach in now (youth development, DOF, Head of Recruitment etc.) early on when MON was burning cash has led us to here.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: brian green on February 25, 2015, 06:28:48 AM
OCD I agree with you. The executive at VP had two pressing priorities following the wanton profligacy of the MON era. One was to reduce costs the other was to stay on the Premiership gravy train. All the energies appear to have been directed towards economy and far too little to sustained growth. If the board feels like giving themselves a standing ovation they should reflect on why nobody wants to buy us.  The next two or three games with tell us if we are going to be the new Southampton or the new Nottingham Forest.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2015, 09:21:40 AM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI
Who do you think was less qualified from before World War I?
Tony Barton & Ron Saunders at a guess
Sadly we live in a different era
Blimey I must live in a different world as SV I don't understand your response to Dave's comment?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on February 25, 2015, 09:40:45 AM
Fantastic news. We're officially making slightly less of a balls up of the finances than in previous years. While we're clutching at straws, can anyone confirm that we're still carbon neutral? ( or is that tin-pot lamp we erected draining natural resources)

Let's build another statue and celebrate.

Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Damo70 on February 25, 2015, 09:51:29 AM
OCD I agree with you. The executive at VP had two pressing priorities following the wanton profligacy of the MON era. One was to reduce costs the other was to stay on the Premiership gravy train. All the energies appear to have been directed towards economy and far too little to sustained growth. If the board feels like giving themselves a standing ovation they should reflect on why nobody wants to buy us.  The next two or three games with tell us if we are going to be the new Southampton or the new Nottingham Forest.

We could well be the new Southampton. We just need to sell the Lambert signings like Lowton, Bennett, Luna, Sylla, Tonev and Helenius for about fifty million quid. And then buy some really good players with the money.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: simon ward 50 on February 25, 2015, 11:54:14 AM
Away from my office most of the week but will download the accounts and look into them over the weekend! Sad or what?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 25, 2015, 12:07:46 PM
Where is enda Stevens ? He still appears on the back of the programme squad list
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 25, 2015, 12:59:30 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI
Who do you think was less qualified from before World War I?
Tony Barton & Ron Saunders at a guess
Sadly we live in a different era
Blimey I must live in a different world as SV I don't understand your response to Dave's comment?

i also don't see how he thinks Fox is a step down from Faulkner?

Because Gabby got a new contract?

I'm of the opinion we should have moved Gabby on, not rewarded him, but if we are talking about acts of madness, Fox has a long way to go before he achieves the low of appointing McLeish.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Risso on February 25, 2015, 01:27:58 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Clampy on February 25, 2015, 01:32:30 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI

You said only yesterday that you wasn't having a go at Sherwood. Today you're having a go at Sherwood. And what;s all this WW1 piffle?

I'm sure you just make things up sometimes off the top of your head.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 25, 2015, 01:35:35 PM
They don't learn though do they, after spunking money away on Given,Bent and numerous others they then grant Gabby a lifetime pension over four years, Fox did that.
Exactly . And people diss Faulkner .
Fox is a step down and will see us go down.
Appointing Sherwood is just surreal ! The most unqualified  manager ever of this club since WWI

You said only yesterday that you wasn't having a go at Sherwood. Today you're having a go at Sherwood. And what;s all this WW1 piffle?

I'm sure you just make things up sometimes off the top of your head.
I'm not having a go at Sherwood though. It's not his fault he got the job, in some ways I admire him for taking it on.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on February 25, 2015, 01:36:52 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.

Same here. Barely a month into his job and Fox costs the club millions by offering a contract extension to the worst manager we've seen at Villa for a generation. It's not as if other clubs were beating a path to Lambert's door to sign him up so why on earth did we do it. I'm still scratching my head over that decision. Maybe it's the false narrative I'm reading
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Pat McMahon on February 25, 2015, 01:41:16 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.

Same here. Barely a month into his job and Fox costs the club millions by offering a contract extension to the worst manager we've seen at Villa for a generation. It's not as if other clubs were beating a path to Lambert's door to sign him up so why on earth did we do it. I'm still scratching my head over that decision. Maybe it's the false narrative I'm reading

Maybe Fox was following your employer's motto? Empowering performance through something or another. It sounded impressive in the pub before QPR
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: eamonn on February 25, 2015, 01:54:42 PM
There were reports that the Lambert contract extension was agreed and all but signed, sealed and delivered last summer but the club were wary of how it would sit with fans so used our good start to announce it.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on February 25, 2015, 01:57:19 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.

Same here. Barely a month into his job and Fox costs the club millions by offering a contract extension to the worst manager we've seen at Villa for a generation. It's not as if other clubs were beating a path to Lambert's door to sign him up so why on earth did we do it. I'm still scratching my head over that decision. Maybe it's the false narrative I'm reading

Maybe Fox was following your employer's motto? Empowering performance through something or another. It sounded impressive in the pub before QPR

Yeah, empower this, inspire that, something something
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2015, 02:15:58 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.

Same here. Barely a month into his job and Fox costs the club millions by offering a contract extension to the worst manager we've seen at Villa for a generation. It's not as if other clubs were beating a path to Lambert's door to sign him up so why on earth did we do it. I'm still scratching my head over that decision. Maybe it's the false narrative I'm reading

We paid up a year of his contract. So it doesn't matter if it was a 10 year new contract or a 12 month one.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on February 25, 2015, 02:25:47 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.

Same here. Barely a month into his job and Fox costs the club millions by offering a contract extension to the worst manager we've seen at Villa for a generation. It's not as if other clubs were beating a path to Lambert's door to sign him up so why on earth did we do it. I'm still scratching my head over that decision. Maybe it's the false narrative I'm reading

We paid up a year of his contract. So it doesn't matter if it was a 10 year new contract or a 12 month one.

Not renewing his contract (which plenty of people were suggesting) would have been cheaper. Widely reported that we paid him £2m. Jesus, we could have got another Joe Cole for that money. It's a lot of season tickets
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2015, 02:46:41 PM
So we're agreed then, it didn't cost us millions.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on February 25, 2015, 02:51:03 PM
So we're agreed then, it didn't cost us millions.

Nope. Unless you know any different from the press reports of a £2m payout?

Either way, as a first major decision by Foxy, offering Lambert a contract extension doesn't do much for his credibility. We're agreed on that, surely?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 25, 2015, 02:52:13 PM
The contract extension for Lambert pushed that very close in my opinion.

had he been at the club for any length of time then I would agree. It happened very soon after he arrived. He gets a ton of brownie points from me for being able to convince his boss to fire Lambert though, something Faulkner didn't manage to do.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2015, 02:52:47 PM
We'd have paid a chunk regardless of the new contract. So no, the new contract didn't cost us millions.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: joe_c on February 25, 2015, 03:01:05 PM
We'd have paid a chunk regardless of the new contract. So no, the new contract didn't cost us millions.

I think it probably cost us the option/ability to get rid of him sooner which may prove to be more damaging than the money.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 25, 2015, 03:06:45 PM
We'd have paid a chunk regardless of the new contract. So no, the new contract didn't cost us millions.

I think it probably cost us the option/ability to get rid of him sooner which may prove to be more damaging than the money.

I don't know that it did Joe. I think the situation just got so bad that we fired him. I really think they gave him every opportunity to be a success be it on the old contract or the new one. In the end new contract or not the situation simply became to apparent that it wasn't going to get better. With the new TV deal on the table the new contract didn't become such a bitter pill to swallow when weighed against the alternative.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 25, 2015, 03:08:04 PM
We'd have paid a chunk regardless of the new contract. So no, the new contract didn't cost us millions.

I think it probably cost us the option/ability to get rid of him sooner which may prove to be more damaging than the money.

The way they stood by him regardless of how shit we were, i'm not convinced they'd have sacked him any sooner even without the new contract.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Hoppo on February 25, 2015, 03:16:13 PM
To the cleverer finance people than me. Random questions. Are we capable of dealing with relegation? Would it ruin us? Anyone know of relegation clauses in contracts? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 25, 2015, 03:42:09 PM
To the cleverer finance people than me. Random questions. Are we capable of dealing with relegation? Would it ruin us? Anyone know of relegation clauses in contracts? Thanks in advance.
With the huge year 1 parachute payment , if we came straight back it wouldn't be terminal damage. Although the big names like benteke and Delph etc will have release clauses I'm sure
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Villa in Denmark on February 25, 2015, 04:07:20 PM
For those who don't appreciate how important getting the finances in order has been, the history of Parma over the last 30 years is a salutary lesson.

Parma's uncertain future: Former Uefa Cup winners rack up debts (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/31588196)

Or read the thread in other football.  The only reason Leeds survived in any form was that they'd started to address the issues, just 2-3 years to late with further to fall than we did.

Portsmouth never did until their backs were pressed against the wall.

No-one denys that the club has been shockingly mis-managed pretty much since Randy turned up, it's just that £50M / year can hide an awful lot of cracks. Yes the retrenchment has been brutal, but the real mistakes have been in

1. The lack of playing philosophy which has lead to changes in style with every appointment = expensive squad turnover (MON->Houllier->attempt at Martinez->McLeish->Lambert->Sherwood) The only link in that chain that looks reasonable is Houllier to Martinez which never actually happened.
2. The shocking lack of overview in managing the value of the squad.  Since half way through MONs period I'd guess that we must have lost around £100M in transfer fees walking out of the door on free transfers.  If we'd only managed to get 50% back we'd be in so much a better position both financially and squad wise.
3. Not sacking Lambert last summer.  Almost as big a mind bender as the new contract which for me is joint first with appointing McLeish.

(I'll give Fox a pass on the Lambert contract as given how soon it was signed after he arrived, there's a good chance that it was aleady being drafted by the time Fox was appointed.  If it wasn't then it was handed to him from Randy as No.1 job once he'd got his feet under the desk.)
The appointment of managersappalling managerial appointments (McLeish), a l
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 25, 2015, 05:01:03 PM
The damage done under MON was monumental.
Curtis Davies being a prime example , bought for £10m and walked away for £250k
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: villadelph on February 25, 2015, 05:58:32 PM
Cut the losses, great.. hope it was worth it.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: OCD on February 25, 2015, 06:00:05 PM
The damage done under MON was monumental.
Curtis Davies being a prime example , bought for £10m and walked away for £250k

£3.5m.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: rob_bridge on February 25, 2015, 06:14:10 PM
The damage done under MON was monumental.
Curtis Davies being a prime example , bought for £10m and walked away for £250k

£3.5m.


Bad but Heskey Beye and Cuellar cost 40m jn fees and wages and we re uperated zilch. And would have been no worse off had any of them never set foot in Villa Park asmone of ours.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: DB on February 25, 2015, 06:37:57 PM
It was no coincidence that as soon as we dropped into the bottom 3 he was given the boot. There must have been a clause stating if it happened they could get rid at little cost.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ez on February 25, 2015, 07:50:59 PM
It was no coincidence that as soon as we dropped into the bottom 3 he was given the boot. There must have been a clause stating if it happened they could get rid at little cost.

I thought he looked more panicked during the Hull defeat than he normally did.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 25, 2015, 07:57:16 PM
I just thought he looked broken and defeated. That whatever he tried simply isn't working, hadn't worked, won't work. He knew it was the end.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: gpbarr on February 25, 2015, 08:12:09 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

Wwe may have needed to do it but not at the speed in which it has been done. look at the league table.

Was it that quick though?  If we'd spent as much as we have but spent it well and, over the 3 managers, following a single plan, would we have  suffered so much?

This is the point, everything from the end of mon's last season has been bad management but it has been underfunded to the extent that many suggest.

The bad management started with MON appointment - it was he, let we forget, who triggered most of the financial debt we had to then excrutiatingly untangle
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2015, 09:13:03 PM
What else do people expect though? Should Lerner have just carried on writing off £50m a year to please you?

We had to do this, how bad things have been is more down to the fact that the people trusted to oversee it have been poor and there's been little by way of underlying philosophy behind it.  If you want to bitch about Lerner focus on the lack of footballing experience on the board or the choice of managers, moaning that he didn't want to carry on underwriting losses of £50m a year is plain wrong.

In terms of the actual accounts this ties in perfectly with What Russell said last year which was that we were pretty much on track now.

Wwe may have needed to do it but not at the speed in which it has been done. look at the league table.

Was it that quick though?  If we'd spent as much as we have but spent it well and, over the 3 managers, following a single plan, would we have  suffered so much?

This is the point, everything from the end of mon's last season has been bad management but it has been underfunded to the extent that many suggest.

The bad management started with MON appointment - it was he, let we forget, who triggered most of the financial debt we had to then excrutiatingly untangle

I completely disagree, he was a very good appointment, what went wrong is that he probably should've left the summer before he did rather than being given the money to completely replace his defence with another one at huge expense for very little improvement.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dave Cooper please on February 26, 2015, 08:21:05 AM
Cut the losses, great.. hope it was worth it.

Well it ensures you'll still have a club to support in the future.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ajmant on February 26, 2015, 09:36:34 AM
Landmark case going to the courts which would scupper Financial Fair Play rules. So we break our necks to comply with rules that may not be enforceable at an unbelievable speed, and get relegated in the process.

Our board are visionaries I tell you, visionaries.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: aj2k77 on February 26, 2015, 09:45:13 AM
Landmark case going to the courts which would scupper Financial Fair Play rules. So we break our necks to comply with rules that may not be enforceable at an unbelievable speed, and get relegated in the process.

Our board are visionaries I tell you, visionaries.

And if the case isn't successful then we'd be in the shit for just closing our eyes and pretending we weren't in it up to our eyeballs. How on Earth was it healthy for us to be running £50m losses? It was frivolous spending with no care to the future and if one good thing has come from us cutting everything back it's that the ''board'' finally realise we are a professional entity and need structures, plans and serious thinking behind moving us forward and not just paying everyone £40k a week and tossing money around like lottery winning morons.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ajmant on February 26, 2015, 09:55:34 AM
I'm just saying sometimes you need to look at the WIDER picture. Sure trim the costs, reduce the overheads. Not slash them.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: AV82EC on February 26, 2015, 11:57:28 AM
I'm just saying sometimes you need to look at the WIDER picture. Sure trim the costs, reduce the overheads. Not slash them.

The trouble is if you're making £50m losses on an, at the time, turnover of less than £100m you have to slash your costs or you'll go out of business, billionaire owner or not. There's only so much debt he can swap to equity.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 26, 2015, 12:10:11 PM
What I do not understand is how it was allowed to get to £40 million losses per year in the name of getting into the Champions League?  Even if we had progressed I do not think it would cover that annual deficit ?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 26, 2015, 12:16:37 PM
What I do not understand is how it was allowed to get to £40 million losses per year in the name of getting into the Champions League?  Even if we had progressed I do not think it would cover that annual deficit ?

Because even the best businessmen (and Randy's far from that) lose all sense and reasoning once they catch sight of a football pitch.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2015, 01:33:23 PM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 26, 2015, 01:53:35 PM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.

I am not sure to be honest , but even still it isa hell of a gamble for not great reward
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 26, 2015, 01:59:28 PM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Not even close -

The 32 clubs featuring in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League group stage can anticipate a minimum €8.6m. The side that eventually wins the UEFA Champions League title this term could collect €37.4m, not counting the market pool share.

Each of the 32 teams involved in the group stage will collect a base fee of €8.6m. Performance bonuses will also see €1m paid for a win and €500,000 for a draw in the group phase. The sides competing in the round of 16 can also expect to receive €3.5m each, the eight quarter-finalists €3.9m and the four semi-finalists €4.9m. The UEFA Champions League winners will pick up €10.5m and the runners-up €6.5m.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 26, 2015, 02:10:51 PM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Not even close -

The 32 clubs featuring in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League group stage can anticipate a minimum €8.6m. The side that eventually wins the UEFA Champions League title this term could collect €37.4m, not counting the market pool share.

Each of the 32 teams involved in the group stage will collect a base fee of €8.6m. Performance bonuses will also see €1m paid for a win and €500,000 for a draw in the group phase. The sides competing in the round of 16 can also expect to receive €3.5m each, the eight quarter-finalists €3.9m and the four semi-finalists €4.9m. The UEFA Champions League winners will pick up €10.5m and the runners-up €6.5m.

which makes it even worse !
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: aj2k77 on February 26, 2015, 02:53:39 PM
21/32 clubs earned over £20m in 2012/13 in the Champions league, that's not including any extra gate revenues, matchday sponsorship and other matchday income, plus the extra exposure. It's worth a lot more than the post below because the market pool share is some big money.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: villadelph on February 26, 2015, 04:05:43 PM
Cut the losses, great.. hope it was worth it.

Well it ensures you'll still have a club to support in the future.

 ::)

yeah..
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dave Cooper please on February 26, 2015, 04:08:41 PM
Sooner or later a "big" club will go under, I'd rather it isn't us.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 26, 2015, 04:22:13 PM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Not even close -

The 32 clubs featuring in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League group stage can anticipate a minimum €8.6m. The side that eventually wins the UEFA Champions League title this term could collect €37.4m, not counting the market pool share.

Each of the 32 teams involved in the group stage will collect a base fee of €8.6m. Performance bonuses will also see €1m paid for a win and €500,000 for a draw in the group phase. The sides competing in the round of 16 can also expect to receive €3.5m each, the eight quarter-finalists €3.9m and the four semi-finalists €4.9m. The UEFA Champions League winners will pick up €10.5m and the runners-up €6.5m.

which makes it even worse !

Not really. Finishing 4th and with MON as manager, we'd never have got through the qualifying stages to the group stage.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: myf on February 26, 2015, 04:50:30 PM
To the cleverer finance people than me. Random questions. Are we capable of dealing with relegation? Would it ruin us? Anyone know of relegation clauses in contracts? Thanks in advance.
With the huge year 1 parachute payment , if we came straight back it wouldn't be terminal damage. Although the big names like benteke and Delph etc will have release clauses I'm sure

Is it only 1 yr? I thought blues got about 2/3 yrs of payments. Hence why they're in trouble now
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2015, 05:04:18 PM
To the cleverer finance people than me. Random questions. Are we capable of dealing with relegation? Would it ruin us? Anyone know of relegation clauses in contracts? Thanks in advance.
With the huge year 1 parachute payment , if we came straight back it wouldn't be terminal damage. Although the big names like benteke and Delph etc will have release clauses I'm sure

Is it only 1 yr? I thought blues got about 2/3 yrs of payments. Hence why they're in trouble now

4 years. The current deal is season 1 £15m, season 2 £17m and £8m for seasons 3 and 4.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: AV82EC on February 26, 2015, 05:04:22 PM
To the cleverer finance people than me. Random questions. Are we capable of dealing with relegation? Would it ruin us? Anyone know of relegation clauses in contracts? Thanks in advance.
With the huge year 1 parachute payment , if we came straight back it wouldn't be terminal damage. Although the big names like benteke and Delph etc will have release clauses I'm sure

Is it only 1 yr? I thought blues got about 2/3 yrs of payments. Hence why they're in trouble now

There is no 1 year payment. The current payment of about £63m is spread over 4 seasons though there is talk when the new £5bn deal comes in this will be increased but only spread over 3 seasons.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2015, 05:07:48 PM
Or maybe it's higher than my number as there may have been another TV deal since then (not the new one recently announced) so assume the parachute payments went up.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: AV82EC on February 26, 2015, 05:09:28 PM
Or maybe it's higher than my number as there may have been another TV deal since then (not the new one recently announced) so assume the parachute payments went up.

Yep it was increased in the deal we're in now I think.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2015, 05:14:01 PM
If a club gets relegated and during the first couple of years a new TV deal comes into play, I wonder if the parachute payments stay the same for the club/s already relegated. As in, do they still only get the old deal payments for their 4 years or do they get the new ones, even if they've already been down for 2 years?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dave on February 26, 2015, 06:36:05 PM
If a club gets relegated and during the first couple of years a new TV deal comes into play, I wonder if the parachute payments stay the same for the club/s already relegated. As in, do they still only get the old deal payments for their 4 years or do they get the new ones, even if they've already been down for 2 years?
My guess would be the former. They'd be written in as fixed sums so that the clubs can plan for those years accordingly rather than having to second-guess what they might get (higher or lower) when a new TV deal comes in.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2015, 07:48:30 PM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Not even close -

The 32 clubs featuring in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League group stage can anticipate a minimum €8.6m. The side that eventually wins the UEFA Champions League title this term could collect €37.4m, not counting the market pool share.

Each of the 32 teams involved in the group stage will collect a base fee of €8.6m. Performance bonuses will also see €1m paid for a win and €500,000 for a draw in the group phase. The sides competing in the round of 16 can also expect to receive €3.5m each, the eight quarter-finalists €3.9m and the four semi-finalists €4.9m. The UEFA Champions League winners will pick up €10.5m and the runners-up €6.5m.

which makes it even worse !

Not really, because that's only accounting for the prize money, which is only part of the 'package'; merchandising, tickets, improved sponsorship deals all add to it and I'm not sure if those numbers even include TV revenue, if not that's probably a fair bit on top.

21/32 clubs earned over £20m in 2012/13 in the Champions league, that's not including any extra gate revenues, matchday sponsorship and other matchday income, plus the extra exposure. It's worth a lot more than the post below because the market pool share is some big money.

Sounds about right, I'd bet all the English clubs are safely in that 21 and would be even if they completely bombed out of their group.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 26, 2015, 09:03:48 PM
I wonder if we'd actually scraped into the CL under MON one season our finances could of been even worse.
We'd probably have blown another £100m on Aidan mcgeady and 1 or 2 others , not made the group strages etc .
All hypothetical I know but MON was on a course that would have taken us fully under.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 27, 2015, 01:01:39 AM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Not even close -

The 32 clubs featuring in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League group stage can anticipate a minimum €8.6m. The side that eventually wins the UEFA Champions League title this term could collect €37.4m, not counting the market pool share.

Each of the 32 teams involved in the group stage will collect a base fee of €8.6m. Performance bonuses will also see €1m paid for a win and €500,000 for a draw in the group phase. The sides competing in the round of 16 can also expect to receive €3.5m each, the eight quarter-finalists €3.9m and the four semi-finalists €4.9m. The UEFA Champions League winners will pick up €10.5m and the runners-up €6.5m.

Do those numbers include the TV money?  I suspect not.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Louzie0 on February 27, 2015, 01:27:34 AM
I don't know if it's the thespian tendency in me coming out but every time I read the title of this thread, I see:

ACCOUNTS SHOW!...Reduced Loss!!!
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Villa in Denmark on February 27, 2015, 07:31:57 AM
Sooner or later a "big" club will go under, I'd rather it isn't us.

Do Parma in Italy count?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: silhillvilla on February 27, 2015, 09:04:44 AM
Isn't a champions league place (in the groups) worth about £50m, I'm sure that's the figure (or near enough) that was going around when it became clear Man U weren't going to qualify last year.
Not even close -

The 32 clubs featuring in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League group stage can anticipate a minimum €8.6m. The side that eventually wins the UEFA Champions League title this term could collect €37.4m, not counting the market pool share.

Each of the 32 teams involved in the group stage will collect a base fee of €8.6m. Performance bonuses will also see €1m paid for a win and €500,000 for a draw in the group phase. The sides competing in the round of 16 can also expect to receive €3.5m each, the eight quarter-finalists €3.9m and the four semi-finalists €4.9m. The UEFA Champions League winners will pick up €10.5m and the runners-up €6.5m.

Do those numbers include the TV money?  I suspect not.
Think so yes. Uefa control the TV money not the clubs individually .
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2015, 09:23:42 AM
Those figures don't include TV money. That is what the market share pool is. 2 years ago the TV money alone was something like

Arsenal £11M
Man City £18m
Chelsea £18m
Man Utd £24m

That's euros not pounds.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Mister E on February 28, 2015, 08:17:39 AM
Interesting piece from the Daily Torygraph here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/11441308/Newcastle-United-set-to-announce-bigger-profits-than-top-Premier-League-and-Champions-League-clubs.html)
 

Quote
Newcastle United are set to announce record profits for the past financial year, despite continuing to languish among the Premier League also-rans.  The club are expected to confirm they made more money than most clubs playing in the Champions League when they release their latest set of results, with sources indicating they could have made as much as £50 million.  However, there are conflicting figures being banded around at the club, with one prominent figure insisting the profit was nearer to £30 million. The Daily Telegraph’s attempts to clarify the exact figure have been frustrated, although it has been confirmed a “significant profit” will be announced next week.  To put things into perspective, Arsenal, who won the FA Cup, reached the knockout stage of the Champions League and finished fourth in the Premier League last season, six places higher than Newcastle, made a profit of roughly £11 million.  It will be the fourth year in a row that Newcastle have announced an operating profit and it seems certain that the figures will be an improvement on those announced in 2012 when they made a profit of £13.3 million, numbers boosted by the £35 million sale of Andy Carroll to Liverpool.    The impressive financial figures will be used to justify owner Mike Ashley’s continued presence at St James’ Park. Ashley inherited a club crippled by debt and covered losses of £140 million during his first three years at St James’ Park, although the majority of those were interest-free loans needed during their solitary season in the Championship.
 The disastrous relegation at the end of the 2008/9 season began with Kevin Keegan’s resignation following a falling out over the club’s transfer policy and was made worse by Ashley’s subsequent appointment of Joe Kinnear as manager and the owner’s repeated attempts to sell the club.
 Ashley, though, has transformed the business and while he has not presided over any success on the pitch, he deserves credit for the impact he has made on the club’s accounts.
 Supporters, though, are unlikely to be impressed and there will be increased pressure to reinvest the profits in the first-team squad when the transfer window opens in the summer.
 It remains to be seen whether Ashley is willing to do that, or whether he has used the profits to repay some of the money owed to him in the form of interest free loans.
 Although Ashley has had great success in streamlining the business, cutting costs, as well as buying players cheaply and selling them on for a large profit, Newcastle have only finished in the top eight once since he took control of the club in 2007.
 Newcastle have been short of competition for places in both defence and attack all season after failing to sign a top class centre-back and centre-forward last summer.
 Indeed, most supporters are unhappy that the club seems more interested in performing well in the accounts department than delivering a team that is capable of challenging for silverware and European qualification.
...
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: itbrvilla on March 04, 2015, 11:54:49 AM
Some interesting notes here from the AVST AGM Q&A with Dr Fox.  We are 8 years behind the 'Top' clubs interms or commercial operation apparently. (http://www.myoldmansaid.com/tom-fox-qa-avst-aston-villa-supporters-discussion/)
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Risso on March 07, 2015, 12:04:57 PM
I've got the actual accounts now and they show:

Gate receipts slightly down from £12,9m to £12.8m
TV money up to £72.7m from £45.8m.
Sponsorship income up from £8.5m to £9.3m
Commercial income up from £15.9m to £22m.  Note however, that this includes loan fees for players we loan out, which seems a strange place to stick it.

Wages didn't fall very much, down by £2.5m from £71.8m to £69.3m.  Last year's figure included 'exceptional costs' of £2.2m though, which I assume are payoffs, so the real underlying figure is unchanged.

The balance sheet is now positive to the tune of £2m after being in deficit to £84m last year, because of the conversion of the loan notes to share capital.  The company still owes Lerner £90m though.

So it's more positive then, but also shows the importance of staying in the Premier League.  Our other income isn't growing, and as a percentage of total income is becoming far less important.  The TV money has meant that teams that come up like Derby or Forest will straight away have a much bigger income than the teams that go down.  Anybody going down pretty well needs to bounce back straight away, otherwise they're going to be left behind.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ad@m on March 07, 2015, 01:47:08 PM
Just to add to Risso's review:


Overall the accounts now show a pretty solid picture.  It looks like we've finally got the club back on an even keel after MON's carnage.  But Randy's still down to the tune of £300m.  The real financial success for the year has been getting the extra TV money in and stopping it just flowing out to the players in wages.  However, TV money accounts for 62% of our income now so relegation would be financially disastrous if we couldn't reduce our costs accordingly - but I had read somewhere that the players now have relegation clauses in their contracts now so that would help.

Beyond relegation, the next challenge is making sure the new contracts given to the likes of Delph don't result in massive wage increases which put us back in to the position we were in before.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Risso on March 07, 2015, 02:07:23 PM
Yes, you're right about the exceptional costs, misread my own scribbles.  Would the directors' remuneration not cover Faulkner and Russell, rather than Lerner and Faulkner?  Minor points in any case.

Did you see the PBSE note though?  It says that the net cost of additions of new players after the 31 May 2014 was only £0.1m.  This can't be right, surely?  I know Lambert mainly brought in free transfers, but surely Sanchez and Gil were a few million each?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ad@m on March 07, 2015, 02:24:08 PM
Yes, you're right about the exceptional costs, misread my own scribbles.  Would the directors' remuneration not cover Faulkner and Russell, rather than Lerner and Faulkner?  Minor points in any case.

Did you see the PBSE note though?  It says that the net cost of additions of new players after the 31 May 2014 was only £0.1m.  This can't be right, surely?  I know Lambert mainly brought in free transfers, but surely Sanchez and Gil were a few million each?

You're right, need to include Russell. Not sure if Randy pays himself a salary.

As for PBSE, the accounts were signed off on 17 July - we didn't sign Sanchez until August and Gil until January so they wouldn't be included.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 07, 2015, 02:29:07 PM
The change of owner clause will cover directors and senior management. I'd guess it's standard in business.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Risso on March 07, 2015, 02:32:24 PM
Yes, you're right about the exceptional costs, misread my own scribbles.  Would the directors' remuneration not cover Faulkner and Russell, rather than Lerner and Faulkner?  Minor points in any case.

Did you see the PBSE note though?  It says that the net cost of additions of new players after the 31 May 2014 was only £0.1m.  This can't be right, surely?  I know Lambert mainly brought in free transfers, but surely Sanchez and Gil were a few million each?

You're right, need to include Russell. Not sure if Randy pays himself a salary.

As for PBSE, the accounts were signed off on 17 July - we didn't sign Sanchez until August and Gil until January so they wouldn't be included.

Ah good spot.  I'm used to them not signing the accounts until February!
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ad@m on March 07, 2015, 02:47:37 PM
The change of owner clause will cover directors and senior management. I'd guess it's standard in business.

It's the first time I've come across it in over 15 years of working with businesses. But who knows what's normal in the unique world of Premier League football!
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Risso on March 07, 2015, 04:25:27 PM

Beyond relegation, the next challenge is making sure the new contracts given to the likes of Delph don't result in massive wage increases which put us back in to the position we were in before.

What contracts are up this summer?  Vlaar and Bent I think amongst others, which would be another big chunk off the bill.
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 07, 2015, 04:34:51 PM
Thank you Risso and Ad@m.  Just about understood most of that.

I guess it is Fox's job to talk us up, but he seems pretty confident that he'll increase commercial income beyond where we currently are so in a few years we could start to have the flexibility to make some bigger moves in the transfer market (assuming we stay up).
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on March 07, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
The change of owner clause will cover directors and senior management. I'd guess it's standard in business.

It's the first time I've come across it in over 15 years of working with businesses. But who knows what's normal in the unique world of Premier League football!

They are more common in the tech business although usually its an accelerated vesting of shares in that case rather than cash.

The people with those clauses are ones who may either not make the transition to new ownership or people you want to give an incentive to make a change happen.

 
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Matt Collins on March 08, 2015, 06:24:50 PM
Looking at those numbers, the impact that a good commercial operation can have is frankly almost meaningless compared to TV revenues

The increased deal must trigger a number of things. I'm still not sure we're an attractive purchasing proposition though. where do you take us? Eighth? What's the point?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Ad@m on March 08, 2015, 06:28:53 PM
The change of owner clause will cover directors and senior management. I'd guess it's standard in business.

It's the first time I've come across it in over 15 years of working with businesses. But who knows what's normal in the unique world of Premier League football!

They are more common in the tech business although usually its an accelerated vesting of shares in that case rather than cash.

The people with those clauses are ones who may either not make the transition to new ownership or people you want to give an incentive to make a change happen.

Yep, I've seen plenty of share option deals like that but the way it's accounted for in the Villa's case isn't a share option, it's a cash bonus (or something readily convertible in to cash).
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 08, 2015, 07:13:35 PM
Improved numbers, PL safety and an FA Cup win. Will Randy even want to sell?
Title: Re: Accounts Show Reduced Loss
Post by: paul_e on March 09, 2015, 01:52:24 AM
Looking at those numbers, the impact that a good commercial operation can have is frankly almost meaningless compared to TV revenues

The increased deal must trigger a number of things. I'm still not sure we're an attractive purchasing proposition though. where do you take us? Eighth? What's the point?

To me it shows the exact opposite. Look at the commercial revenue of other sides we should be competing with and we're well behind (match day is lower too but that's not a bad thing, better than the £1000+ season tickets at Chelsea and arsenal). I have high hopes that the restructuring/recruitment at board level to add a commercial director will lead to a big improvement in this,  there's a lot more we can do.
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