Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: anton hillman on February 02, 2015, 02:02:30 PM
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I've been looking through some old programmes from the late 1960's just to remind me of the last time that things looked this grim at the Villa. The situation only began to change when we hit Division three in 1970 and started winning games again. It became fun to watch the Villa and enjoy the recovery that began during those years that eventually led us to the European cup. Would a spell in the championship bring the club to it's senses and maybe allow us to see a few games being won? It would certainly be more fun to be chasing promotion that dodging relegation year in, year out...
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I think that I'd look forward to the actual games but, given the way that football is these days, economically it would be a disaster.
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It would be shit. Even if we pissed the title i'd hate being in division 2. I hated it in 87/88. Villa should never be out the top flight.
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You only have fun chasing promotion if you are a shitty pathetic team like Small Heath or some other shitty little club. It's not fun chasing promotion when you should be chasing European qualification. You think the football is bad now, the standard will only get worse the lower we decline, it just gives the illusion of fun because all the other teams are worse which makes us look better.
Plus we may never get back up (soon anyway), we will have less chance selling the unsellable but hey, we get a few new shitty little poxy grounds to waste our money going to. Dodging relegation at least keeps us in the top league.
Fuck relegation, anyone who thinks it is a good idea has a seriously different perspective when it comes to what they get out of the Villa (compared to me anyway).
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Point is football pre Sky was a different world. With no mark teams (Palace, Swansea, Hull, Stoke) getting £80+m more than better supported teams in the lower division makes the divide bigger. Also our better players would probably leave so no guarantee of even getting back up. Whilst in theory we could do with the cold shower of a good old fashioned relegation, the grim reality would be us turning in to Sheff Weds.
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That's the thing.
On the one side, it'd be nice to play matches we are expected to win for a change, and if you do away trips, you'd love it. We had a great time in 1987-8, all over the place in my mate's mom's Maxi every other week.
On the flip side, though, Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday - three decent clubs there, how many years have they been out of the top flight between them now?
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It would be embarrassing. I would hate every minute of it. Victories would be hollow as being out of the top flight is beneath Aston Villa.
The playing staff would have to be gutted. We would have to sell so many players ends meet, who knows what we would be left with? We’d still be enduring Lambert’s awful tactics and diabolical football, only this time in the company of a league full of Mickey Mouse clubs.
Villa Park would become even more lifeless, apart from perhaps one game out of the 23 where we play the Noses. For everybody else, it would be a cup final. The pressure to come back up would be immense, having 23 sides come and pretend they’re playing in an FA Cup semi-final would make home games an even greater misery than they already are.
Away games would be terrible too. The away support in the championship is rubbish; the clubs in there average around 1100. We would be the only club to take a big away following everywhere we went. By the same token, all the locals would turn out for a curious stare at the floundering whale of a club, drowning in the shallows. It would be like a trip to the New Den every other week and I have no desire to be locked in more often than not.
It would be an awful experience and given how badly we fare against lower league opposition under this manager, we would be more likely to be relegated again than come back up.
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We'd be everyone's cup final home and away. We wouldn't be having the massive away support of the past in the lower leagues because of lower allocations etc. It would be shit. Fail to come straight back up and it would be even more shit.
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Seeing the way Learner has managed the club these last four or five years it would be no great surprise to see him leave the clueless one in charge of trying to bring us back up again.After his choice of the Small Heath manager who had just been relegated ,nothing should surprise us.
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It would be embarrassing. I would hate every minute of it. Victories would be hollow as being out of the top flight is beneath Aston Villa.
If the victories would be hollow, how can you even begin to describe the defeats?
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Well said Ads I agree with every word of it. Championship football is beneath Aston Villa and it would humiliate us. I don't go with all this "it'll be fun" nonsense either. That's the sort of rubbish the Noses come out with. We must not go down.
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It would be terrible, because Villa should be in the top flight. Also consider how tight our budget is at the moment, can you imagine how much further it would be squeezed in the Championship. Also we'd lose most of our good players and we'd probably keep the manager. There probably isn't this golden future of being relegated and then breezing through the Championship on our way to promotion at the first attempt. I think it's likely we'd go down and then be struggling in that league as well.
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Clueless management on and off the field would be equally shit in a lower division
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I'd get over it. Plus, it'd be nice for every other Premier League side not to have us in the league next season.
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
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The reason we've been battling it out down the bottom of the Premier league for the last few years is that we're a club that is managed appalling from the highest level down. If we went down we'd been a Championship club that's appallingly managed from the top down and therefore given time we'd see similar results.
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No
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Less likelihood of fixtures being fucked about with for TV but that's about it.
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Less likelihood of fixtures being fucked about with for TV but that's about it.
We'd be the live game nearly every week.
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Less likelihood of fixtures being fucked about with for TV but that's about it.
That's hardly a positive. Playing a home league game against someone like Brentford is depressing whether it's 3pm Saturday or 6am on a Tuesday.
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Rotherham at home on a Tuesday evening will be so much fun.
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I remember last time, I remember the pain of going down which was only nullified slightly by the arrival of Sir Graham. I remember the god awful home games, Bluenoses and Baggies fans at my school laughing as we struggled at home. I have no rose tinted view of the away days, just constant agro and a final day stuck on a crumbling terrace with a load of ticketless fans. The only redeeming feature to this whole sorry affair was a belief that we not only had the right man to get us up, but the right man to rebuild us to where we had been only a few years earlier. You can also add to that the fact that dropping out was not a calamitous back then, due to the sums of money involved.
Fast forward to us dropping out, given Lerner’s record of choosing new managers, the loss of revenue, national humiliation and the very real danger that we would not bounce back and therefore join the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Leeds, Sheff Weds, Notts Forest, Derby County and so on in the ‘they were once big’ club; you can shove the notion where the sun don’t shine.
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Rotherham at home on a Tuesday evening will be so much fun.
I'd imagine it's currently more fun than Arsenal away on a Sunday.
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Loved the away trips of 87/88, but back then we had a plan.
This time round, no, no way. It wouldn't be in the slightest bit fun.
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Rotherham at home on a Tuesday evening will be so much fun.
I'd imagine it's currently more fun than Arsenal away on a Sunday.
Based on Leyton Orient at home in midweek I'd imagine it isn't.
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Fair enough. As long as things remain how they are, we're in a lose-lose situation. Misery and woe.
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The only real upsides I could see are that we would have a lot of new grounds to go to and that we'd be more likely to win.
Addressing the first one, the new grounds. It would be more difficult to get tickets for a lot of them with an average capacity of 20,000 compared to 40,000 in the top flight. Season ticket holders, at least, can more-or-less pick and choose which away games they go to at present and quite a few go on general sale. It'd be much more difficult in the division below. Plus the extra eight games a season would necessitate a load of games being played midweek, particularly if we or our opponents had decent runs in the FA Cup.
Regarding the increased likelihood of victory. It's hardly an absolute certainty at any rate given our form against dross over the last few years. Also, while yesterday was no fun, for most of us the bitterness of defeat was negated slightly by the prior knowledge that we'd probably lose. Defeat against Rotherham or Milton Keynes would be much more difficult to take than defeat against even quite awful Premier League teams like QPR and Leicester.
For the future, it would be disastrous. We'd have to sell all our major assets and at knock-down price. At present we think we could have enough to survive in the top flight and if we spent a bit of cash we could finish mid-table. If we sold all our better players, even if we did come straight back up we'd have to spend a fortune just to have a chance of seventeenth place.
If you get annoyed at the media failing to take into account our history and regard us as a big club now, good luck tolerating how they'll see us down there.
It would be utterly humiliating for a club of our stature to get relegated. There's no guarantee we would come back.
It's a "no" from me.
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There is a belief from some posters to the question posed that we run the risk of becoming another Sheffield Wed or worse if we take the drop. Given the financial gap that now exists between the upper flight and the res,t this could certainly happen and is a sobering prospect for any Villa fan. Remember though that other clubs like West Ham and Newcastle have managed to come back up in recent seasons stronger for the experience rather than disappear like Sheffield and Leeds.
I believe that looking at what is now going on and after Saturday's debacle we need to be realistic. Relegation could occur and looks increasingly likely. Under the present set up we can't go on dodging the bullet for much longer.
If it does happen I wonder whether there is a contingency plan in place at AVFC for dealing with the consequences. Somehow I doubt it
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West Ham still needed the play-offs to come back up, a winner 3 mins from time in the final. That is a bit of a lottery, not hard to imagine they'd have been screwed if they hadn't got through.
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Any fun to be gleaned would be appreciated in hindsight, rather than at the time.
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Cheaper tickets.
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It's like saying to someone who's being tortured with thumbscrews "well, at least when your thumbs come off they won't hurt anymore." I'd rather keep my thumbs, frankly.
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There would be no guarantee of coming back up. We didn't walk it the last time around. It would be shit on every level.
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This team and manager stripped of it's few assetts would flounder in the championship
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Unthinkable! Having escaped from the maws of perennial shitness in 1972, and having scaled the heights to become European Champions, to begin that slippery slope to shitness again is, as I said, unthinkable.
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Cheaper tickets.
Would they be though?
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Cheaper tickets.
Would they be though?
Doubt it . We are already one of the cheapest PL clubs ticket wise
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Cheaper tickets.
Would they be though?
Doubt it . We are already one of the cheapest PL clubs ticket wise
Going away would definitely be.
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What we're seeing in the original post is the last stage of the Kübler-Ross model of the five stages of grief: acceptance.
Before we start trying to convince ourselves that all is lost, and that somehow that's not so bad, and that life will actually be better after the seismic failure of relegation, we need to remind ourselves that we're not dead and buried yet. Not quite.
It's a very real danger, make no mistake about that, but the irresponsible idiots running the club can still pull this one around. If they don't then relegation will be an unmitigated disaster which doesn't bear thinking about.
Let's not insult the memory of the people who built this club - the likes of McGregor, Ramsay, Rinder, et al - by talking up second-tier football. It's shit and it isn't what this club is for.
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It would take me a long time to get over relegation, in the 20-odd years I've supported the club I've only ever watched us play in the top flight. We would be playing in a half empty stadium at home and struggle to generate any sort of atmosphere whereas clubs like Brentford and Rotherham would be cheered on by packed out away ends with 3k noisy fans as it will be a big day out for them.
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There is not one single positive about getting relegated. Not one.
Cheaper tickets.
Would they be though?
Doubt it . We are already one of the cheapest PL clubs ticket wise
Going away would definitely be.
Do you not remember the category AA prices the Noses saved up for us and Man United. We'd get plenty of that category AA+ Gold baloney,because these clubs know they can charge £40 a ticket and Villa will still bring 3000 with them, as we're used to being fleeced.
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What we're seeing in the original post is the last stage of the Kübler-Ross model of the five stages of grief: acceptance.
Before we start trying to convince ourselves that all is lost, and that somehow that's not so bad, and that life will actually be better after the seismic failure of relegation, we need to remind ourselves that we're not dead and buried yet. Not quite.
It's a very real danger, make no mistake about that, but the irresponsible idiots running the club can still pull this one around. If they don't then relegation will be an unmitigated disaster which doesn't bear thinking about.
Let's not insult the memory of the people who built this club - the likes of McGregor, Ramsay, Rinder, et al - by talking up second-tier football. It's shit and it isn't what this club is for.
The moment a club accepts it's down is the moment it is sunk. This type of thinking - especially in regard to Villa - genuinely gets to me, to put it mildly. The thought and act of relegation for Villa is simply unacceptable on every level.
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".... we should never forget that we are not talking about a mere business. This is the Aston Villa football club, and it deserves nothing short of the best"
I doubt Fred Rinder and his collegues would have been championing relegation.
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What I wouldn't be able to stand is if we were behind, say, Brentford in the table and people said, "Yes but they're further into their project than we are."
One season in the Championship might be short term fun but two or more would be dreadful.
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If we went down we would be the next Leeds, Notts Forest, Sheffield Wednesday etc.. etc...
We would just be another former big club in the second tear of English Football, possibly bouncing up and down to and from the promised land of the 'EPL' and being talked about in terms like "Its a shame a big club like that..."
Thats our future if we go down, more fun? my arse!
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Have been a Villa fan since 1957. During that time have seen us be relegated 4 times in 59, 67, 70 and 87, all of them were extremely painful, but I think if we were relegated this season, it would hit me even more than the other occasions.
When Deadly Doug took over the club in December 68 when we were in the old Div 2, there was a tremendous feel good factor. At the beginning of that month before Doug's arrival we had a crowd of 12,000 and on Boxing Day the attendance rose to 41,000. Tommy Doc was appointed as manager and for the rest of the season we had some great crowds, including 49,000 against Derby, 53,000 vs Blues and 59,000 for a cup game against Southampton. The next season we were one of the favourites to go up and ended up being relegated. As you say things only started to pick up, in season 70/71 when we reached the league cup final, losing to 1st Div Spurs.
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No.
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As a Villa fan since 1966, I certainly found it more fun watching Villa beat Bournemouth in front of 48000 in 1972, and Man Utd in the league cup in front of 62500 in 1970 than watching eight and five goals being put past us by Chelsea and Arsenal in the premier league. Albeit at that time we were temporarily resident in Division three but you just knew that there was something in the air at Villa Park and that great times were around the corner. This was the period the foundations for the successes of the last 40 years built. All now being demolished by Lerner and Lambert.
One poster mentioned acceptance as being the final stage of grief. Maybe so but acceptance of the reality of a situation is necessary before moving on. The trouble is that acceptance of where we are currently positioned and heading for if nothing is done is not there to any degree amongst the current gang running our club.
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Did you enjoy it when some no mark club beat us in the 2nd or 3rd division?
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No matter how many years go by and how many times we laugh at Small Heath's regular relegations, never ever forget how gut wrenchingly, sickeningly horrible relegation is.
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I've been looking through some old programmes from the late 1960's just to remind me of the last time that things looked this grim at the Villa. The situation only began to change when we hit Division three in 1970 and started winning games again. It became fun to watch the Villa and enjoy the recovery that began during those years that eventually led us to the European cup. Would a spell in the championship bring the club to it's senses and maybe allow us to see a few games being won? It would certainly be more fun to be chasing promotion that dodging relegation year in, year out...
If you think drawing 0-0 at home to Rotherham in a half empty Villa Park watching Gabby run down another blind alley whilst Lambert scribbles in his diary fun ,then yes, it would be.
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Fun for who?
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No. The prospect of my beloved Aston Villa becoming another Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday or Forest is depressing.
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I have fond memories of '87-'88 but that was due to SGT and the feeling of a new beginning. Also I left school the day SGT was appointed so flush with my YTS money it was my first season of going home and away week in week out. However, apart from Shrewsbury and Bradford at the death I don't recall too many home games fondly. Leicester, Albion, Leeds (twice), Shrewsbury, Bradford, Man City, Reading, Swindon. I was in Australia when we played at the sty. I doubt I would feel the same excitement about trips to Rotherham and Brentford at my age.
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I would hope that Lerner would by then have begun to protect his investment by showing Lambert the door, so he might no longer be around to scribble whilst we watched Rotherham. Maybe he might also bring in a manager who would sort out the lazy country club attitude of some players that caused Keane to walk
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Depressingly I think that Lerner and Fox have accepted that relegation is a possibility and probably have a plan B business case to cover that eventuality.
In which case, Lambert would remain and who's to say he wouldn't transfer his incompetence to the Championship. So not only are we likely to stay down but would start flirting with League 1.
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As a Villa fan since 1966, I certainly found it more fun watching Villa beat Bournemouth in front of 48000 in 1972, and Man Utd in the league cup in front of 62500 in 1970 than watching eight and five goals being put past us by Chelsea and Arsenal in the premier league. Albeit at that time we were temporarily resident in Division three but you just knew that there was something in the air at Villa Park and that great times were around the corner. This was the period the foundations for the successes of the last 40 years built. All now being demolished by Lerner and Lambert.
One poster mentioned acceptance as being the final stage of grief. Maybe so but acceptance of the reality of a situation is necessary before moving on. The trouble is that acceptance of where we are currently positioned and heading for if nothing is done is not there to any degree amongst the current gang running our club.
Did you enjoy all 8 years out the top flight? Losing to Torquay in the first round of the FA Cup? Losing at York in the LC 1st round? Losing 6-1 at the Albion etc? How about 73/74 when crowds were back down below 20K and nearer 12K for the last few months as we finished 14th in Division 2?
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I have fond memories of '87-'88 but that was due to SGT and the feeling of a new beginning. Also I left school the day SGT was appointed so flush with my YTS money it was my first season of going home and away week in week out. However, apart from Shrewsbury and Bradford at the death I don't recall too many home games fondly. Leicester, Albion, Leeds (twice), Shrewsbury, Bradford, Man City, Reading, Swindon. I was in Australia when we played at the sty. I doubt I would feel the same excitement about trips to Rotherham and Brentford at my age.
Hull we tonked, think we went top that night around New Years day
I would hope that Lerner would by then have begun to protect his investment by showing Lambert the door, so he might no longer be around to scribble whilst we watched Rotherham. Maybe he might also bring in a manager who would sort out the lazy country club attitude of some players that caused Keane to walk
Too much effort. He would more likely give his soul mate in fuck wittery Lambert a shot at getting us back up first.
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Fun for who?
Blues & Albion fans.
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We are stagnating in a pile of shit as we speak. My first season was 86/87 and it hurt even then to get relegated. We only came straight back because of Sir Graham's organization and ability to spot a player Mark Lillis and Steve Sims for example.
I have no faith in anyone at the club being able to sort out our problems this season let alone sort out a relegated 'giant'.
The embarrassment of relegation would fade though, if it happens we have to deal with it.
Those pricks at Smethwick and Small Heath are already organizing a relegation party on facebook.
Being the biggest team in The Championship could galvanise though but it needs leadership, something were sadly lacking.
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It was fun in the 70s and awful in the 80s. Nowadays an absolute financial catastrophe once the Sky Money has gone.
Also not completely beyond the realms of possibilities Blues and Wolves will come up and Albion will stay up.
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It was fun in the 70s and awful in the 80s. Nowadays an absolute financial catastrophe once the Sky Money has gone.
Also not completely beyond the realms of possibilities Blues and Wolves will come up and Albion will stay up.
Blues and Wolves coming up..... that's in the same realm of possibility as me arriving at the Chelsea game on a Dragon and then watching deadline day signing Lionel Messi run riot for us in a 7-0 rout.
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I think if you compare the best bits of life outside the top division with the very worst matches we've had in the Premier League we can see, quite conclusively, the proof that relegation would be ace.
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It would be dire. Most of the teams in the Championship are recently relegated Premier League teams, so it would be the same trips to the likes of Wigan, Norwich and Blackburn, with the added "bonus" of games against our beloved neighbours again.
Whilst watching teams like Bournemouth or Watford in the Premier League.
Bollocks to it, we'd probably be just as rubbish under Lambert as we are now.
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There would be a brief novelty factor, and we'd be away from the hype etc of the Premier League. But ultimately, it would be shit at Villa Park. Attendances would be awful, and a half empty ground is pretty dreadful isn't it? Away matches would probably be more fun because it was somewhere new. Still godawful though.
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We are stagnating in a pile of shit as we speak. My first season was 86/87 and it hurt even then to get relegated. We only came straight back because of Sir Graham's organization and ability to spot a player Mark Lillis and Steve Sims for example.
I have no faith in anyone at the club being able to sort out our problems this season let alone sort out a relegated 'giant'.
The embarrassment of relegation would fade though, if it happens we have to deal with it.
Those pricks at Smethwick and Small Heath are already organizing a relegation party on facebook.
Being the biggest team in The Championship could galvanise though but it needs leadership, something were sadly lacking.
I'm not sure the 'biggest club in the championship' tag means much. Derby, Boro and Ipswich are in the top six right now but how long have they all been out of the PL? Wolves, Wednesday, Forest and Leeds have all been in League One more recently than the top flight. Norwich have recently dropped that far too. League One Sheffield United and Coventry both looked a good bet to bounce back to the PL after relegation.
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My overriding thought is: we'd better get used to the idea becuase - unless a miracle happens - I can see it as the most likely reality in May.
And, I'd say I'm not naturally pessimistic. I just don't see a way out of the current dross that Lambert has us playing.
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It all depends whether this twat is still manager.
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In response to the initial question, no but ish!
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Seeing as the consensus seems to be next season in the championship would be terrible what do we think next season in the premiership would be like?
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As others have said, I actually quite enjoyed 87-88. Or at least I enjoyed the away trips, as home form was dire. However, I remember talking with a Leeds fan when they came to us and him saying that when they first got relegated they thought they'd bounce straight back up and by then it was something like their eighth season out of the top flight. As it so happens, we did got straight back up by the skin of our teeth, but how much fun would I have been having in the second or third or fourth or fifth season down? Not much. And there in lies the rub. Look at the clubs in the Championship. There is no guarantee we'd go straight back up.
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As others have said, I actually quite enjoyed 87-88. Or at least I enjoyed the away trips, as home form was dire. However, I remember talking with a Leeds fan when they came to us and him saying that when they first got relegated they thought they'd bounce straight back up and by then it was something like their eighth season out of the top flight. As it so happens, we did got straight back up by the skin of our teeth, but how much fun would I have been having in the second or third or fourth or fifth season down? Not much. And there in lies the rub. Look at the clubs in the Championship. There is no guarantee we'd go straight back up.
Good point. It was fun because it was a novelty and it was ultimately a successful season. Five years down there would not be fun.
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I live abroad and don't go to games anymore so i don't really count but... on match days for the last few years I have this feeling of dread. It lasts until we just escape relegation, I feel a relief that there will be no match days for a few months, enjoy the transfer dealings and blind renewed hope of the summer - and then we have to play games again. Shit!. How much worse could 'supporting' a team feel?. Sorry to be such a downer but I preferred being in Div 2, standing in the Holte in the rain watching Charlton, playing in Grey, beating us 0 - 1 to this torture.
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As others have said, I actually quite enjoyed 87-88. Or at least I enjoyed the away trips, as home form was dire. However, I remember talking with a Leeds fan when they came to us and him saying that when they first got relegated they thought they'd bounce straight back up and by then it was something like their eighth season out of the top flight. As it so happens, we did got straight back up by the skin of our teeth, but how much fun would I have been having in the second or third or fourth or fifth season down? Not much. And there in lies the rub. Look at the clubs in the Championship. There is no guarantee we'd go straight back up.
There's no guarantee
But there has never been a club as big as Villa who went down and stayed down in the modern era,
Leeds had worse problems than ourselves as they were near on bankrupt, you really can't compare there special circumstances to ours
We would come back pretty quickly imo
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I live abroad and don't go to games anymore so i don't really count but... on match days for the last few years I have this feeling of dread. It lasts until we just escape relegation, I feel a relief that there will be no match days for a few months, enjoy the transfer dealings and blind renewed hope of the summer - and then we have to play games again. Shit!. How much worse could 'supporting' a team feel?. Sorry to be such a downer but I preferred being in Div 2, standing in the Holte in the rain watching Charlton, playing in Grey, beating us 0 - 1 to this torture.
Every Villa fan counts. Especially those who keep the faith in foreign lands.
Do you live somewhere hot? Do you have a spare room for visitors of a claret and blue persuation?
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I don't want to go down, but I reckon I'd attend more games if we did
It's obviously all hypothetical but if the choice was another 4 years like we have just had or go down and come up within a couple of seasons I'd take the latter
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No (http://www.freelang.net/expressions/no.php)
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As others have said, I actually quite enjoyed 87-88. Or at least I enjoyed the away trips, as home form was dire. However, I remember talking with a Leeds fan when they came to us and him saying that when they first got relegated they thought they'd bounce straight back up and by then it was something like their eighth season out of the top flight. As it so happens, we did got straight back up by the skin of our teeth, but how much fun would I have been having in the second or third or fourth or fifth season down? Not much. And there in lies the rub. Look at the clubs in the Championship. There is no guarantee we'd go straight back up.
There's no guarantee
But there has never been a club as big as Villa who went down and stayed down in the modern era,
Leeds had worse problems than ourselves as they were near on bankrupt, you really can't compare there special circumstances to ours
We would come back pretty quickly imo
There's only 3 or 4 clubs as big as us anyway. But Citeh went all the way to the third.
Last time we were down we only got back up on goals scored. And were relying on other sides still playing after our game had finished to go up. Feck risking that again.
They may not be as big, but when Sheff Weds dropped in 2000 would anyone have thought they'd still be waiting to come back 15 years later? And have 2 spells in Div 3?
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For the club it would be a nightmare and in the long term I'll regret saying this but the question is would it be more fun, for me yes, I rarely go to home games, I'm hoping as my son gets older to change that, and away games have always been more fun but even those are getting me down now. The occasion before and after is always a buzz but the games have been getting worse for the last 4/5 years. I'm sick of expecting to lose every game, if there was, at least, the possibility of a win I'd be happy and that is not going to be happening anytime soon, especially with the club being run like it is.
For me its about the day out and the possibility of being happy, half of that isn't happening at the moment and I can't see when that'll change. I'll always go and watch them but if this is whats its going to be like every year in the premiership I'd rather try something different.
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As others have said, I actually quite enjoyed 87-88. Or at least I enjoyed the away trips, as home form was dire. However, I remember talking with a Leeds fan when they came to us and him saying that when they first got relegated they thought they'd bounce straight back up and by then it was something like their eighth season out of the top flight. As it so happens, we did got straight back up by the skin of our teeth, but how much fun would I have been having in the second or third or fourth or fifth season down? Not much. And there in lies the rub. Look at the clubs in the Championship. There is no guarantee we'd go straight back up.
I think you've nailed it there. An Eighties disco might be a good laugh once in a while but not every week.
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The first 2 or 3 games might be a bit of a novelty especially if it was like a trip to Brighton and then a trip to say Fulham but then I suspect once reality has really set In it would be truly horrendous.
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As others have said, I actually quite enjoyed 87-88. Or at least I enjoyed the away trips, as home form was dire. However, I remember talking with a Leeds fan when they came to us and him saying that when they first got relegated they thought they'd bounce straight back up and by then it was something like their eighth season out of the top flight. As it so happens, we did got straight back up by the skin of our tejeth, but how much fun would I have been having in the second or third or fourth or fifth season down? Not much. And there in lies the rub. Look at the clubs in the Championship. There is no guarantee we'd go straight back up.
I think you've nailed it there. An Eighties disco might be a good laugh once in a while but not every week.
Compared to what we got now every week which is just ace
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Some people go Flares or Reflex every week and don't complain
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For the club it would be a nightmare and in the long term I'll regret saying this but the question is would it be more fun, for me yes, I rarely go to home games, I'm hoping as my son gets older to change that, and away games have always been more fun but even those are getting me down now. The occasion before and after is always a buzz but the games have been getting worse for the last 4/5 years. I'm sick of expecting to lose every game, if there was, at least, the possibility of a win I'd be happy and that is not going to be happening anytime soon, especially with the club being run like it is.
For me its about the day out and the possibility of being happy, half of that isn't happening at the moment and I can't see when that'll change. I'll always go and watch them but if this is whats its going to be like every year in the premiership I'd rather try something different.
What makes you think it would be any better in the Championship?
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It's not exactly rational, but the thought of a Villa shirt with the player name and number in that crappy font they use down there makes me shudder a bit.
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Some people go Flares or Reflex every week and don't complain
Some people choose to watch small heath every week. Doesn't make it acceptable.
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Also, advertising on their arses, or is that only as you slide down the leagues?
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It might be fun the first year, its what happens after that.
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It might be fun the first year, its what happens after that.
Then we could have fun in League One.
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No, why would it be fun being relegated and then probably suffer further embarrassment of
losing or drawing 0-0 with teams in the league below us? Who's to say we'll improve.
The easiest solution is to drop Lambert now and get the team we have now performing to its best capabilities. That would be far more fun.
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away games would be great, home games a drag. If we were promised an immediate return I'd go for it.
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What fun would there be in being relegated? Not for me. Not much fun at the moment, either, but would prefer to stay in the PL and hopefully the (semi)-good times will return once Lambert has either gone or sorted things out.
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There is no positive to going down. None.
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What a stupid thread. More fun beating Fulham than not beating Wet Spam? Crazy talk.
Seriously, no. Never to relegation. Under any circumstances.
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Weren't we all talking the other day about choosing between winning the Cup and getting relegated?
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It might be fun the first year, its what happens after that.
I totally agree. Relegation is exactly the same as marriage. ;)
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For the club it would be a nightmare and in the long term I'll regret saying this but the question is would it be more fun, for me yes, I rarely go to home games, I'm hoping as my son gets older to change that, and away games have always been more fun but even those are getting me down now. The occasion before and after is always a buzz but the games have been getting worse for the last 4/5 years. I'm sick of expecting to lose every game, if there was, at least, the possibility of a win I'd be happy and that is not going to be happening anytime soon, especially with the club being run like it is.
For me its about the day out and the possibility of being happy, half of that isn't happening at the moment and I can't see when that'll change. I'll always go and watch them but if this is whats its going to be like every year in the premiership I'd rather try something different.
What makes you think it would be any better in the Championship?
We're currently at the bottom of every shitlist in Europe if not the world, how could it be any worse.
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Only those who havn't experienced it could imagine it could be fun, i tell you now its not. What gives anyone the impression that we woulod come staicht back up with our recent history against lower league clubs. LAMBERT OUT.
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We would be relegated again to the 'third tier'.
Then we could enjoy visiting Notts County, Walsall .. hang on we've done that.
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We haven't been relegated in my lifetime, and not something I ever want to see happen, Villa are too big a club to be fucking about in Division 2.
However, if we do go down it might get the people who run the club to take their head out of the sand. It would also probably mean I get a season ticket for the first time since 2011 and start seeing more away games.
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No
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No. It would be shit.
We'd lose the few decent players we have, and be left with the dregs.
We'd have even less chance of finding a rich/decent new owner.
We'd lose any remaining status and prestige we already have.
We won't win the FA Cup next year.
There's no guarantee we'd come back up.
Loss of momentum, if we did come back up we'd have to shell out on a new squad.
We'd have to play Blues again.
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We haven't been relegated in my lifetime, and not something I ever want to see happen, Villa are too big a club to be fucking about in Division 2.
However, if we do go down it might get the people who run the club to take their head out of the sand. It would also probably mean I get a season ticket for the first time since 2011 and start seeing more away games.
I fear they'd dig even deeper. Ashamed and finally defeated Lerner would sell for a cut rate, sell off the few quality players that remain and leave us for dead.
No sweat off Randy's spineless back.
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There is no positive to going down. None.
Cheaper and better pies at aways
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It's not exactly rational, but the thought of a Villa shirt with the player name and number in that crappy font they use down there makes me shudder a bit.
It's horrid isn't it? I always think to myself how cheap it looks when I see it. It may not be rational but it's a valid concern.
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It all depends whether this twat is still manager.
It would be great because we'd be "excellent" every week.
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No.
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Relegation is horrible. It's humiliating. It's a stain on the record books. We invented the league and we've been in the top league over one hundred seasons - under no circumstances should it ever be acceptable for Villa to be out of the top flight.
For those not old enough to remember our last relegation, I guess you don't appreciate what you've got until it's gone. My memory of that time was the sense of loss in status and reputation of the club. We were viewed as minnows in cup matches, rarely mentioned in the national press and all the prestige of being European Champs five years previous seemed forgotten about. The image of the club took a hammering that took a good few years to get back. To add salt to the wounds we got relegated just when "the big five" formed to change football's relationship with the media forever. Had we been in a halfway decent state, as a club, we would have been part of that group. Relegation is not good!
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It would be footballing purgatory for club like Villa. There's also the prospect of having to play that lot down the road, with all the shite that comes with it.
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I like to think I'd retain a sense of perspective.
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I'll go further: I can honestly see the club, under this regime, dropping into the Championship this season and straight into League one after next season. Just like Wolves did.....
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"Fun" is an extremely subjective term. For example, I know a number of relatively intelligent people who think nuclear armageddon would be quite fun, not to say well deserved.
Objectively, for our club, it would be an unmitigated disaster.
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It might be easier for us to score a goal, just.
But, I have no confidence that relegation might not result in an exile of Forest/Leeds proportions.
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Being old enough to remember our last relegation, I remember it being pretty heartbreaking rather than fun. We were lucky that Graham Taylor arrived when he did, but even then it was a real struggle to get back up. Football being how it was then meant that relegation didn't really have the impact it does now and we went on to nearly win the league only two years after getting promoted.
I've read a lot of honourable stoicism in some of these posts ("we're Aston Villa, we should be in the top flight"), but the fact is that we have an owner, manager and some players who probably deserve to be in the Championship for their performance over the past few seasons.
If it does happen and let's face it, it looks like it could, then we would require strong and astute leadership both on and off the pitch to deal with it properly. My concern is that we don't have either and it would become a disaster. We would lose a few players, but let's face it, there wouldn't be too much interest in many of our players and we would be able to keep a lot of them. For example, when you look at what Sam Vokes and Danny Ings did for Burnley last season, a strike partnership of Kozak and Weimann would be very good in the Championship (presuming the former returns).
In short it wouldn't be fun, it would be a long, hard slog with massive risk involved if we weren't promoted in the first season.
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No and it definatly would not be fun
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If Lambert went as part of the process, then next season may well be fun. We'd win a lot if games and be promoted. If he stayed, it would be worse than dreadful.
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Would we really be a bigger draw for other teams than Newcastle were when they were down there last? Especially in the post-Sky era, I think we overestimate how big a club we are in the eyes of other fans. We are the archetypal club named in those "what is the point of club xyz" snidey comments.
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Having to stay up until 1am on a Sunday morning to catch our 25 secs of highlights . How fun that sounds with Munish and Claridge musing over what Gabby brings to the party. God , depressing times.
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The title asks "would it be more fun" my immediate answer is that it couldn't really be any less fun than the current situation. From MON's final season until now, save for the odd brief period, it has been a time of unstinting negativity.
I don't want it to happen, obviously, and don't think it will but if it did we would just have to get on with it and not wallow in self pity.
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Bottom line is it would wipe another 8-10k off the gate particularly if we are not near the top of the championship. We'd still have a core 2000 away fans which probably would see some "fun" days out but that's about it.
Then again there has been virtually no fun since MON left anyway .
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No it wouldn't be fun. I feel down about Villa now but relegation would be a lot worse.
No guarantee we would come straight back up either.
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The most depressing aspect of this impending relegation is that Lerner will still be our owner and I would bet on lambert keeping his job too.
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No it would not.
As others have sited this is not 1987 and we do not have a manager on the horizon who would come in and slam dunk the whole rotten structure and be able to steam roller the under performing players.
We would be stuck with a completely unmanageable wage bill with Guzan, Delph and Benteke out the door and money would be needed to plug the income drop, not to reinvest.
And there would be no guarantee we would have a better manager.
It would be a catastrophe.
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Probably wouldn't be much fun, apathy from the fans, absolutely no interest from the owner, poor players attracted to the club, attendances down, the odd good day out and the odd decent result now and then.
Just like now in fact, but in a lower league.
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Because this is such fun now?
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Because this is such fun now?
Not really, but I don't quite get the logic of people seeing a scenario that actually makes things worse than the past four and a half years, as the solution to remedying this.
The stupidity, and that is being kind, what I actually mean is outright fucking lunacy of the suggestion that it would be more fun, is like losing your leg below the knee, but to cheer you up, they'll take the rest of the leg up to your hip.
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I could tick off a few new grounds at least - Bristol City , Brentford, Rochdale ?!
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I could tick off a few new grounds at least - Bristol City , Brentford, Rochdale ?!
You could tick off a few more travel destinations while you're at it. Forget Meeru in the Maldives or Samui in Thailand, try Mogadishu or Raqqa. Think of the fun you will have visiting these new places.
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Because this is such fun now?
Not really, but I don't quite get the logic of people seeing a scenario that actually makes things worse than the past four and a half years, as the solution to remedying this.
The stupidity, and that is being kind, what I actually mean is outright fucking lunacy of the suggestion that it would be more fun, is like losing your leg below the knee, but to cheer you up, they'll take the rest of the leg up to your hip.
Oh I agree. I'm just making the point that being miserable in the premier league with little hope for improvement under the current regime isn't any fun at all. Infact I think the attendances are fantastic all things considered.
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No it would not in answer to the thread title. Ask Wolves and Blues supporters if you need clarification.
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No. If you want to get up the ladder to pick an apple, why seek out a ladder in the coal cellar?
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Well said Ads I agree with every word of it. Championship football is beneath Aston Villa and it would humiliate us. I don't go with all this "it'll be fun" nonsense either. That's the sort of rubbish the Noses come out with. We must not go down.
Exactly this.
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I agree with the whole beneath us/humiliation thing. But taken in isolation, the whole 'going to matches' part of being a Villa fan would probably be more enjoyable.
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I agree with the whole beneath us/humiliation thing. But taken in isolation, the whole 'going to matches' part of being a Villa fan would probably be more enjoyable.
No chance. It's demeaning, it feels dirty. Going to Watford and millwall is beyond rotten. I dare say many people thinking it'll be fun , did not experience the terrible doom of 1987. Yes we came back up, but we had a brilliant Manager. The present one is a clown by comparison.
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Actually going to aways in 1987 was a brilliant time. Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley etc. some great memorable away trips.
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Actually going to aways in 1987 was a brilliant time. Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley etc. some great memorable away trips.
Well at least we won a load of away games. Having said that, Blues and Millwall away weren't exactly a big fun fest.
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We used to share the record for away wins in the old second division with Small Heath. Thirteen wins each, us in '87-'88, them in '84-'85. Not sure if we still do. After losing to Hull in August we went thirteen games unbeaten away (eleven wins, two draws) until we lost at Boro in Feb. I'm not sure if the record still stands or not.
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We used to share the record for away wins in the old second division with Small Heath. Thirteen wins each, us in '87-'88, them in '84-'85. Not sure if we still do. After losing to Hull in August we went thirteen games unbeaten away (eleven wins, two draws) until we lost at Boro in Feb. I'm not sure if the record still stands or not.
That game was The Big Match on ITV on a Sunday afternoon, wasn't it? I remember it being a pretty big thing that they chose a Division 2 game. We lost 2-1. I seem to remember Bernie Slaven scoring at least once for them.
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To me a club like Aston Villa should always seek to test ourselves against the best.
It's been dismal last few years but maybe I've been spoilt by compulsory premier league football in my lifetime as I can't say I'd get much excitement from winning a lot of games in the championship as it's not testing ourselves and competiting against the best.
Bit like doing the easy mode on FIFA and winning games 5/6-0 not that we'd do that.
Think we'd be losing play offs anyway so that would be torture in itself, coming close to going up and fcuking it up.
No thanks.
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It was fbriai. I think it was '89-'90 when we played away to Man City and it was shown live regionally in the Granada and Central areas as an experiment.
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We used to share the record for away wins in the old second division with Small Heath. Thirteen wins each, us in '87-'88, them in '84-'85. Not sure if we still do. After losing to Hull in August we went thirteen games unbeaten away (eleven wins, two draws) until we lost at Boro in Feb. I'm not sure if the record still stands or not.
That game was The Big Match on ITV on a Sunday afternoon, wasn't it? I remember it being a pretty big thing that they chose a Division 2 game. We lost 2-1. I seem to remember Bernie Slaven scoring at least once for them.
We used to share the record for away wins in the old second division with Small Heath. Thirteen wins each, us in '87-'88, them in '84-'85. Not sure if we still do. After losing to Hull in August we went thirteen games unbeaten away (eleven wins, two draws) until we lost at Boro in Feb. I'm not sure if the record still stands or not.
That game was The Big Match on ITV on a Sunday afternoon, wasn't it? I remember it being a pretty big thing that they chose a Division 2 game. We lost 2-1. I seem to remember Bernie Slaven scoring at least once for them.
From my memory I think we were one nil up as well and they scored quite late on, as usual.
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We used to share the record for away wins in the old second division with Small Heath. Thirteen wins each, us in '87-'88, them in '84-'85. Not sure if we still do. After losing to Hull in August we went thirteen games unbeaten away (eleven wins, two draws) until we lost at Boro in Feb. I'm not sure if the record still stands or not.
That game was The Big Match on ITV on a Sunday afternoon, wasn't it? I remember it being a pretty big thing that they chose a Division 2 game. We lost 2-1. I seem to remember Bernie Slaven scoring at least once for them.
Yes, it was. I was at that match. It wasn't much fun.
Strange, I can remember going to plenty of away games in that second division season, and at most of them there were plenty of us, but it was a pretty small number at that game.
Ayresome Park was always a horrible place to go. Hard to believe the difference between that place and their current stadium.
Wasn't it Valentine's Day?
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I think they got two in the last ten minutes. I think Bernie Slaven scored the winner right at the death. I can picture his celebration in front of their fans.
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With people tipping us to struggle in the championship aswell, that means not scoring a lot of goals and losing quite a few games in the championship so pretty much the same as we have now except it would be a bit more embarrasing given we wouldn't be losing to champions league standard teams.
A lot of games would be a scrap and the quality of football would remain low.
Lording it over our neighbours would be a non starter aswell, SHA will rip the piss out of us for being in the championship on derby day and being in a lower division than fcuking Albion would be a disgrace.
Nah, I don't think anyone's going to get me to agree to this. Only scenario I'd take is Newcastle a few years back who totally walked the championship and then came up and finished 5th in the premier league before reverting back to mediocrity.
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Only scenario I'd take is Newcastle a few years back who totally walked the championship and then came up and finished 5th in the premier league before reverting back to mediocrity.
I think they had three games where the crowd was under 40,000 that year, and averaged about 45,000. I think we'd average closer to 25,000 if we were lucky. They also kept hold of most of their decent players, and had a very settled side in the year they came back up, with Carroll, Coloccini, Nolan all playing most of their games. Nolan scored 17 goals that season, our midfielders as a whole wouldn't have that many shots.
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Only scenario I'd take is Newcastle a few years back who totally walked the championship and then came up and finished 5th in the premier league before reverting back to mediocrity.
I think they had three games where the crowd was under 40,000 that year, and averaged about 45,000. I think we'd average closer to 25,000 if we were lucky. They also kept hold of most of their decent players, and had a very settled side in the year they came back up, with Carroll, Coloccini, Nolan all playing most of their games. Nolan scored 17 goals that season, our midfielders as a whole wouldn't have that many shots.
Newcastle also had a squad of a relatively decent, but unspectacular, level across the board, and were able to both hold on to the better ones and use relegation to dump some of the shite.
We have a squad with some pretty clear high points (despite current underperformance) and some mediocrity. I think we'd struggle to keep out better players more than they did.
Relegation would be a disaster. As mentioned before, I had a great time travelling all over the shop in that second division season, but that was almost 30 years ago now. Football has changed an awful lot since then.
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We tend to struggle against Championship teams when we play them in cup competitions, so I don't know why we'd expect to well playing them in league games.
As SoccerHQ says, just imagine being in a division lower than the Olbiyun. FFS, not in my lifetime thank you very much.
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Given the financial state of the club, there's no way we'd hold onto any of our better players in the event of relegation. Randy wouldn't be able to find a buyer, would have no more interest in the club, the revenues would obviously be diminished by God knows how much. Any offer for any of them - Delph, Guzan, Okore, of course Benteke - would stand a chance of getting accepted. We'd be in the Championship with a Championship level squad - at best.
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I have just worked out I have been to ten current championship grounds - Ipswich, Wolves, Norwich, Blackburn, Wednesday, Small Heath, Forest, Bolton, Leeds and Blackpool. I went to the old grounds of Derby, Boro, Reading, Huddersfield and Millwall. I went to Charlton when they played at Selhurst. I have never been to Bournemouth, Brentford, Watford, Cardiff, Fulham, Rotherham Brighton or Wigan.
Back to the point, I don't want to witness us ever get relegated again in my lifetime.
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Only scenario I'd take is Newcastle a few years back who totally walked the championship and then came up and finished 5th in the premier league before reverting back to mediocrity.
If you think Newcastle are mediocre what do you think we are?
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Only scenario I'd take is Newcastle a few years back who totally walked the championship and then came up and finished 5th in the premier league before reverting back to mediocrity.
If you think Newcastle are mediocre what do you think we are?
Somnambulant.
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Somnambulism, as well as meaning sleepwalking is the ninth and deepest state of hypnosis. One of my best mates is a hypnotist, you pick up the odd thing.
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Only scenario I'd take is Newcastle a few years back who totally walked the championship and then came up and finished 5th in the premier league before reverting back to mediocrity.
If you think Newcastle are mediocre what do you think we are?
They have finished below us while Lambert's been in charge....
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Somnambulism, as well as meaning sleepwalking is the ninth and deepest state of hypnosis. One of my best mates is a hypnotist, you pick up the odd thing.
Maybe Tom Fox was hypnotised when he took the job on?
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It's all very well thinking it will be good but I would expect a number of financial cuts meaning a fair few people losing their jobs at Villa Park and Bodymoor. There is the human element of it to consider too.
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Oh!! it would be an absolute barrel of laughs......
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It would be embarrassing. I would hate every minute of it. Victories would be hollow as being out of the top flight is beneath Aston Villa.
If the victories would be hollow, how can you even begin to describe the defeats?
If we got any victories?
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Actually going to aways in 1987 was a brilliant time. Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley etc. some great memorable away trips.
Well at least we won a load of away games. Having said that, Blues and Millwall away weren't exactly a big fun fest.
Great times. I worked in Derbyshire at the time so got to all the away matches in the north. Bradford is an all-time great memory with both Grays scoring I think, as was Barnsley in the rain on that big open away end with Birchy's superb lobbed goal. Sheffield United was a good one too, though I can't quite remember it clearly, I was stood behind a stantion in the old away end and couldn't see much.
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One thing I remember about Sheffield United in that season was that the coppers were absolutely up for a bit of trouble. Barging into people, being heavy handed, trying to get people to kick off. It was absolutely blatant.
South Yorkshire police were always bad for that. A couple of years later, we found out just how bad they really were, sadly.
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One thing I remember about Sheffield United in that season was that the coppers were absolutely up for a bit of trouble. Barging into people, being heavy handed, trying to get people to kick off. It was absolutely blatant.
South Yorkshire police were always bad for that. A couple of years later, we found out just how bad they really were, sadly.
Yes, I remember that Paulie. Spooky to think that so many of us were at games like that all those years ago. I seem to recall a break away goal for us, Tony Daley maybe, and possibly Aspinall scoring, but I get my wires crossed so easily on the precise detail of who was playing in which year!
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We wouldn't have to play Manure or Chavski, that has to be a plus point :D
The only real bonus would be new grounds and teams to play and the possibility that we might win more games (although this isn't always the case - Wolves).
We'd struggle financially and lose our best players. We'd have even less chance of winning the sodding FA Cup.
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Starting line up
Steer, Lowton, Clark, Baker, Bennett, Westwood, Gardner Delph (til January), Grealish, Weimann, Gabby
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If we drop, Delph will be gone before we kick a ball. And I wouldn't blame him.
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Ask yourself this
Villa survive by the skin of our teeth and PL stays
Or
Villa are relegated and PL is sacked
Which scenerio would you be most likely to renew your season ticket or attend matches
Its fairly simple for me and does assume he'll be sacked but if he leaves regardless of whrre we are it'll be more fun than what we are witnessing now
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No.
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Starting line up
Steer, Lowton, Clark, Baker, Bennett, Westwood, Gardner Delph (til January), Grealish, Weimann, Gabby
Surely if we went down then one of Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Man United would come in for Gabby?
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Starting line up
Steer, Lowton, Clark, Baker, Bennett, Westwood, Gardner Delph (til January), Grealish, Weimann, Gabby
Hello third tier, we haven't seen you in a long time.
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Somnambulism, as well as meaning sleepwalking is the ninth and deepest state of hypnosis. One of my best mates is a hypnotist, you pick up the odd thing.
But only when he tells you to pick them up after he claps his hands.
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Starting line up
Steer, Lowton, Clark, Baker, Bennett, Westwood, Gardner Delph (til January), Grealish, Weimann, Gabby
Surely if we went down then one of Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Man United would come in for Gabby?
If not all 4. And PSG.
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Actually going to aways in 1987 was a brilliant time. Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley etc. some great memorable away trips.
Well at least we won a load of away games. Having said that, Blues and Millwall away weren't exactly a big fun fest.
Great times. I worked in Derbyshire at the time so got to all the away matches in the north. Bradford is an all-time great memory with both Grays scoring I think, as was Barnsley in the rain on that big open away end with Birchy's superb lobbed goal. Sheffield United was a good one too, though I can't quite remember it clearly, I was stood behind a stantion in the old away end and couldn't see much.
I think Stuart Gray got two and Birch and McInally got the others. It was the Gray twins debuts. Does anyone remember a bloke on top of their really low stand or have I made that up? Nev and I travelled up there with our mate Seamus and his parents as his sister was teaching in Bradford at the time. We met her housemate 'Driller' (long haired biker bloke with tattoos, looked exactly as you would expect a bloke nicknamed Driller to look). We had to endure listening to plays on the radio on the journey home. A couple of months later our new mate Driller turned up on the telly on Blind Date.
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Somewhere in a parallel universe a TV news report is ending like this:
"And it was an unsettling night for the giants in the Fourth Round of the FA Cup this evening when it took an injury time goal from West Ham's Carlton Cole to knock out a resilient Aston Villa. The Championship side were on course to take the Premier League club back to Villa Park for a hard-earned replay when the former Chelsea striker tapped in a scrambled clearance to spare the Hammers' blushes..."
*Shudder*
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Actually going to aways in 1987 was a brilliant time. Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley etc. some great memorable away trips.
Well at least we won a load of away games. Having said that, Blues and Millwall away weren't exactly a big fun fest.
Great times. I worked in Derbyshire at the time so got to all the away matches in the north. Bradford is an all-time great memory with both Grays scoring I think, as was Barnsley in the rain on that big open away end with Birchy's superb lobbed goal. Sheffield United was a good one too, though I can't quite remember it clearly, I was stood behind a stantion in the old away end and couldn't see much.
I think Stuart Gray got two and Birch and McInally got the others. It was the Gray twins debuts. Does anyone remember a bloke on top of their really low stand or have I made that up? Nev and I travelled up there with our mate Seamus and his parents as his sister was teaching in Bradford at the time. We met her housemate 'Driller' (long haired biker bloke with tattoos, looked exactly as you would expect a bloke nicknamed Driller to look). We had to endure listening to plays on the radio on the journey home. A couple of months later our new mate Driller turned up on the telly on Blind Date.
Did Driller get picked?
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Been there done that. No it wouldn't.Some good memories, but overall was desperate to get back where we belong.
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Actually going to aways in 1987 was a brilliant time. Bradford, Huddersfield, Barnsley etc. some great memorable away trips.
Well at least we won a load of away games. Having said that, Blues and Millwall away weren't exactly a big fun fest.
Great times. I worked in Derbyshire at the time so got to all the away matches in the north. Bradford is an all-time great memory with both Grays scoring I think, as was Barnsley in the rain on that big open away end with Birchy's superb lobbed goal. Sheffield United was a good one too, though I can't quite remember it clearly, I was stood behind a stantion in the old away end and couldn't see much.
I think Stuart Gray got two and Birch and McInally got the others. It was the Gray twins debuts. Does anyone remember a bloke on top of their really low stand or have I made that up? Nev and I travelled up there with our mate Seamus and his parents as his sister was teaching in Bradford at the time. We met her housemate 'Driller' (long haired biker bloke with tattoos, looked exactly as you would expect a bloke nicknamed Driller to look). We had to endure listening to plays on the radio on the journey home. A couple of months later our new mate Driller turned up on the telly on Blind Date.
Did Driller get picked?
I honestly can't remember.
Actually, thinking about it I think he was the one picking from the girls.
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Starting line up
Steer, Lowton, Clark, Baker, Bennett, Westwood, Gardner Delph (til January), Grealish, Weimann, Gabby
Surely if we went down then one of Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Man United would come in for Gabby?
If not all 4. And PSG.
It's known in the trade as Reo-Coker affect.
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Somewhere in a parallel universe a TV news report is ending like this:
"And it was an unsettling night for the giants in the Fourth Round of the FA Cup this evening when it took an injury time goal from West Ham's Carlton Cole to knock out a resilient Aston Villa. The Championship side were on course to take the Premier League club back to Villa Park for a hard-earned replay when the former Chelsea striker tapped in a scrambled clearance to spare the Hammers' blushes..."
*Shudder*
Make it stop :'(
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And in another universe we didn't appoint Pubey, Randy's money was spent well and we're 10 points clear at the top as we look for our 5th straight quadruple.
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I think that I'd look forward to the actual games but, given the way that football is these days, economically it would be a disaster.
This. Its another sad side to the modern game. I actually prefer the Championship to the PL and it would be good to face some fresh teams, and maybe it would force us to pull the finger out a bit. But again it is a harsh reality than if we went down this time we may struggle to come back. We cannot not assume that we would be another West Brom or Newcastle, we could become another Leeds, Sheffield Weds, Coventry etc..
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I don't want us going down no way we must do everything we can to make sure we stay in the Premier League.
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I don't want us going down no way we must do everything we can to make sure we stay in the Premier League.
"We" as in the fans or the owner / management / players ?
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Fans because we are the lifeblood of the club.
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Somewhere in a parallel universe a TV news report is ending like this:
"And it was an unsettling night for the giants in the Fourth Round of the FA Cup this evening when it took an injury time goal from West Ham's Carlton Cole to knock out a resilient Aston Villa. The Championship side were on course to take the Premier League club back to Villa Park for a hard-earned replay when the former Chelsea striker tapped in a scrambled clearance to spare the Hammers' blushes..."
*Shudder*
Insert "plucky" for "resilient" and that's horrifyingly possible. Like when Christopher Walken shakes Martin Sheen's hand in The Dead Zone.
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What a depressing thread!
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Somewhere in a parallel universe a TV news report is ending like this:
"And it was an unsettling night for the giants in the Fourth Round of the FA Cup this evening when it took an injury time goal from West Ham's Carlton Cole to knock out a resilient Aston Villa. The Championship side were on course to take the Premier League club back to Villa Park for a hard-earned replay when the former Chelsea striker tapped in a scrambled clearance to spare the Hammers' blushes..."
*Shudder*
Insert "plucky" for "resilient" and that's horrifyingly possible. Like when Christopher Walken shakes Martin Sheen's hand in The Dead Zone.
It is possible and it's the kind of thing I remember from our year down back in the eighties. The football media aren't sentimental in general when it comes to Aston Villa and I remember markedly how our whole identity and image shifted overnight. It felt like ages, even when back in the top flight, before people started talking about us as anything but small-fry and underdogs...and this despite us being Champions of Europe not even a decade previously.
As an aside, one of my memories of that time of relegation was getting a book for Christmas called "Soccer The World Game" (Published by Marks and Spencer, Foreward by Terry Venables). In it was a write up of all the "big" clubs from around Europe. In the English clubs section they had chapters on Everton, Liverpool, Spurs, Nottingham Forest, Man Utd, Arsenal etc., but no mention at all of Aston Villa - this despite us being, at the time, the second most successful club side in England. (To my then teenage mind this was intolerable and I think, from that time, I developed a real lack of respect for El Tel and the opinions of any football-connected Cockney. That lack of respect continues to this day and I apply it unrelentingly to all of the London football media.) It was as though we had disappeared off the map!
That, for me, is what relegation does, you lose an indefinable sense of status and the longer you are down the more unbearable and frustrating it must be. I can think of no worse fate for Villa than losing our top flight status and then having to yearly attempt to claw our way back up to the top flight of the competition we invented.
It's hard to explain to younger fans who didn't go through it, but my experience of the whole process of relegation was that it was simply shit on every level, you'd be amazed how it makes an impact on your life. Thank heavens SGT came along and sorted it all out in double quick time. Of course, there is no guarantee this double-quick return would happen again if we were reckless enough to allow such a thing as relegation to strike once more. Pull your finger out Randy!
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In answer to the thread title, no it wouldn't be fun. I recall our last rrelegation. We were fortunate to bounce right back. That wouldn't happen this time.
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In a sense I see tomorrow night as a glimpse of what championship life might be like. Midweek trips to the arse end of nowhere to watch jaw droppingly bad football
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As I've said before, try a mid-week trip to places like Halifax, Rochdale and others of that ilk when it's pissing rain with no shelter. That is certainly not my idea of fun.
In our one hundred and forty one year history, we've played in the top flight in all but twelve of them. In my experience I've witnessed relegation in 1959, 1967, 1970 and 1987, I don't want to see it happen again.
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The likely scenario would be winning slightly more games than we lose. Regular comments on here such as `Win these next two games and we will only be a point or two off the play offs.`
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The likely scenario would be winning slightly more games than we lose. Regular comments on here such as `Win these next two games and we will only be a point or two off the play offs.`
Or:
'It's time to let Nigel Clough go. We should bring in someone with a record of promotion. Neil Warnock or Mick McCarthy please'
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But given the perennial struggle against relegation, losing half our games, winning 1 in every 4 home games, scoring less than a goal a game, losing 8-0, losing to Bradford, Leyton Orient & Millwall, and more importantly than all of that, seeing an ownership structure that seems quite happy to see this shambles forced upon us, is it any wonder people want something, anything different?
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But given the perennial struggle against relegation, losing half our games, winning 1 in every 4 home games, scoring less than a goal a game, losing 8-0, losing to Bradford, Leyton Orient & Millwall, and more importantly than all of that, seeing an ownership structure that seems quite happy to see this shambles forced upon us, is it any wonder people want something, anything different?
I don't think it would be different for very long.....
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But given the perennial struggle against relegation, losing half our games, winning 1 in every 4 home games, scoring less than a goal a game, losing 8-0, losing to Bradford, Leyton Orient & Millwall, and more importantly than all of that, seeing an ownership structure that seems quite happy to see this shambles forced upon us, is it any wonder people want something, anything different?
I don't think it would be different for very long.....
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't spend 5 consecutive years battling relegation from the 2nd division.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't want to see us get relegated, but fuck me, having a season ticket these days isn't half dull. I go to every single match expecting us to lose and in the main being proved right. And on the few occasions in wrong, more often than not it's a shitty nil nil draw.
I just want some drama, some entertainment for my 500-odd quid rather than the same monotonous shite week in week out.
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If we get sucked down into the deadmen, that's pretty much the Midlands fucked as a football area, similar to how the loss of L**ds has basically turned Yorkshire into an irrelevant backwater. There'll be some clubs hanging around to make up the numbers but none with the potential or capacity to get back up among the chosen few. The EPL/media cabal might as well get it over and done with and rename the whole shebang 'The London-Lancs League'.
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The piss-taking form all quarters would be horrendous. Look at how we laughed at the Geordies when it happened to them, and they're not even a close rival really. No thanks.
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The Geordies are desperate to see us go after we relegated them and laughed.
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New TV rights deal over 5bil ...going down would be a disaster ..frankly Randy either has balls of steel or is shitting it right now
99mil for club finishing bottom :o
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New TV rights deal over 5bil ...going down would be a disaster ..frankly Randy either has balls of steel or is shitting it right now
99mil for club finishing bottom :o
I thought last season was the one not to go down ! Seems to go up every year now
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There's a theme running through this thread that away trips well remembered would be some kind of compensation for relegation. I don't travel to many away games for various reasons, so the opportunity to go to dull, grey towns like Barnsley holds little attraction to me. I respect our away support, and I'm grateful you represent and support Villa, so if it happens I wish you all the enjoyment you can get. On a personal note, it won't be a salve for me.
As somebody mentioned on here, it only takes that one season away from the top division for the prestige to disappear. Highlights programmes starting at a quarter to midnight, inches rather than pages of newsprint. Even if we came back up first time, we'd still be seen as early favourites for relegation and underdogs to the likes of Crystal Palace. Even if you don't give a shit what others think of us, it's not an attractive proposition to have to work to even get back to square one.
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A lot of the arguments on here seem to be around how we'd get the piss taken out of us if we went down. What do you think is happening now? Some rag ran a 'Souvenir Edition' this weekend because we'd scored a goal!! It can't get any worse.
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A lot of the arguments on here seem to be around how we'd get the piss taken out of us if we went down. What do you think is happening now? Some rag ran a 'Souvenir Edition' this weekend because we'd scored a goal!! It can't get any worse.
Was it the small heath official programme?
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One of my neighbours is a Hammer and he said that the last season they were in Division 2 (2011-12).the media coverage compared to the Premier league was night and day
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There's a theme running through this thread that away trips well remembered would be some kind of compensation for relegation. I don't travel to many away games for various reasons, so the opportunity to go to dull, grey towns like Barnsley holds little attraction to me. I respect our away support, and I'm grateful you represent and support Villa, so if it happens I wish you all the enjoyment you can get. On a personal note, it won't be a salve for me.
As somebody mentioned on here, it only takes that one season away from the top division for the prestige to disappear. Highlights programmes starting at a quarter to midnight, inches rather than pages of newsprint. Even if we came back up first time, we'd still be seen as early favourites for relegation and underdogs to the likes of Crystal Palace. Even if you don't give a shit what others think of us, it's not an attractive proposition to have to work to even get back to square one.
Bounce straight back up and it will be a successful season that those who travel away will remember even more fondly than the rest due to tales of away trips to grounds rarely, if ever, visited before. Then there is what could be called 'The Sheffield Wednesday Alternative'. You get to visit even more new places in League One and actually remember Old Trafford with nostalgic fondness.
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in response to the title of this thread, we might be about to find out.
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Well exactly TV. When does this thread turn into 'which ground are we looking forward to visiting most and least?' I think the latter answers itself probably
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It wouldn't be more fun, because we'd still be owned and run by the same clueless bunch. We would drop like a stone.
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No because unlike last time there is no immediate return. And it could get a whole lot worse.
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It would at least mean I can cancel Sky Sports. I will just pretend top flight football isn't going on next season (and probably quite a few thereafter).
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It's just struck me, if we do drop, next season we can play music after each goal at home and possibly before corners
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assuming we can achieve either
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It's just struck me, if we do drop, next season we can play music after each goal at home and possibly before corners
Kenny Everett famously played a sneaky advance copy of Bohemian Rhapsody bit by bit over a period of time on his radio show. If we had tried that after goals this season we wouldn't have reached the scaramouche's yet, let alone been doing the fandango.
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I have never been one of these might be better to go down fans but I am so sick of watching us lose now perhaps it might be for the best, for my sanity if nothing else.
I was doing some reading through Villa history, this article does it best I think!
We have had our ups and downs over our history but we've always come back up!!
http://www.astonvillarumours.com/Aston-Villa-Managers.asp (http://www.astonvillarumours.com/Aston-Villa-Managers.asp)
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Shall I state the obvious?
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Shall I state the obvious?
Yes please.
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Oooh oooh I know the answer!!
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/9/ (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/9/)
http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=154&teamTabs=managers (http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=154&teamTabs=managers)
Where have you got your info from mate, these sites says Massie left in 1950 and so does wiki?
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
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Just think of all the goal music.
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Is it that we won the 1982 season's Super Cup in 1983?
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_Super_Cup_matches
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Pop quiz. What was the date when we won the big one?
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Pop quiz. What was the date when we won the big one?
The Leyland DAF? We haven't have we?
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Pop quiz. What was the date when we won the big one?
The Leyland DAF? We haven't have we?
That's it! Randy's master plan revealed at last. Get us down to the third tier so that we can finally complete the set of major honours by lifting the Johnstone's Paint Trophy.
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It's be fun if we win games regularly. If not the shit we are facing now would increase a thousandfold if we struggle to beat the likes of MK Dons, Walsall, Brentford etc
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/9/ (http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/aston-villa/9/)
http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=154&teamTabs=managers (http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=154&teamTabs=managers)
Where have you got your info from mate, these sites says Massie left in 1950 and so does wiki?
I got my information from a book about Villa managers entitled McMullan to O'Leary, written by a devillishly handsome scribe who in turn got it from the Birmingham Mail archives.
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No.
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I can't see how it could possibly be less fun than we're having being the worst team in the Premier League
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Well the alternative is we stay up, therefore won't be the worse club in the PL. Nothing good comes from relegation. Shitter football, lower income, puts the club back years, no guarantee of coming back up, piss taken from the our rivals.
However shit things are now, they will be a lot shitter if we went down...which is looking very likely.
It shows how bad things are, how low our expectations...fun in the Championship. We should be having fun in the PL and competing again!
I am preparing for it but not looking fwd to playing Huddersfield on a Weds night.
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About as fun as bumming a donkey if you haven't had sex for a while. I don't see any appeal in playing Rotherham in front of 25,000, potentially on a fucking stupid night like a Tuesday where they up their game and play like their lives depend on it. How about the club just sorts itself out, takes it's arse out of it's hands and starts making good decisions. Preferably without Lerner anywhere near us.
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No. No. No.
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About as fun as bumming a donkey if you haven't had sex for a while. I don't see any appeal in playing Rotherham in front of 25,000, potentially on a fucking stupid night like a Tuesday where they up their game and play like their lives depend on it. How about the club just sorts itself out, takes it's arse out of it's hands and starts making good decisions. Preferably without Lerner anywhere near us.
Amen.
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Well the alternative is we stay up, therefore won't be the worse club in the PL.
I said worst team, not club. After Newcastle, we're by far the worst club in the league at the moment, regardless of whether we stay up or not
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I don't think we as fans have much choice.
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It may have been pointed out over the last 16 pages but shouldn't the title be "WILL it be more fun WHEN..." ?
*doesn't 'run off' to 'don' tin hat*
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Technically we did win the 1982 Super Cup. As all the finals are now one leg played the same year as the main finals, UEFA have changed history so that all the previous competitions count the same way, to avoid the anomaly of having two Super Cup winners in the same year.
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I'd say considering the likelihood of us going down, it's time to start looking for the positives.
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It's the final stage of grief. We're finally there after all these years of trauma. The previous stage, depression, peaked for me during the worldwide humiliation of the FA Cup final. I really couldn't care much after that. Now I've accepted what's happened to us, and relegation will come as some kind of perverse relief after the prolonged agony of hanging on. It's all a bit like the boy who has been told by the other children he can't play with them: "I don't like that stupid game anyway."
Of course, the fallacy that everything will be better, more fun, in the Championship is one of the saddest in football. Small Heath logic. The Championship is not where Villa belongs, but it probably is where what Villa have become belongs. My fear is this: will what Villa have become (weak, apathetic, complacent losers) be good enough to hold its own in that tough, ugly, gritty, shitty league? I really don't know about that.
One thing I hope is that when the inevitable happens, we don't have any blarting. Close-up shots of blubbering fatsos snivelling into their replica shirts are for the likes of Newcastle United. We all know what's coming (and if it doesn't come it'll be a small miracle) so let's go out with a bang. Let's have a party.
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I was sort of resigned to relegation but then it struck me how horrible the printed shirt numbers and names are in the lower leagues so I'd be keen to avoid those monstrosities soiling the claret and blue.
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I was sort of resigned to relegation but then it struck me how horrible the printed shirt numbers and names are in the lower leagues so I'd be keen to avoid those monstrosities soiling the claret and blue.
Aren't clubs also allowed a second sponsor on the backs of the shirts?
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Yes it would be more fun.
More fun than being consistantly one of the worst sides in the premier, more fun than getting stuffed 8-0 & 6-1 by sides, more fun than losing consistently week after week after week, more fun than being mocked by national & local media.
Yes it would be more fun , in fact bring it on
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I'd say considering the likelihood of us going down, it's time to start looking for the positives.
The only positives I can think of are we may start to win a few games and playing against the nothing clubs in that division, potentially even Burton, Aston Villa playing Burton Albion in a league game for fucks sake, might wake the support from it's slumber. Apart from that Lerner might go, the complete and utter twat and we might get taken over by someone with a plan that isn't either completely dim-witted or changes on a weekly basis.
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Fulham away again. Easily the best away game in the country.
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It would be joyless shite and a stain on the history of the club, however brief.
Far better to be poor in a league that matters than to be anything at all in one that does not.
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I think it would if we won games and came back up at the first attempt. Yes, I know, if.
We could actually get some real momentum going that way. This death by a thousand defeats we've suffered over the last 5 years is utterly miserable. I just want to enjoy football again.
No guarantees though with Lerner and his flunkies calling the shots.
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If we want to enjoy football again then we should let Garde purchase some good quality first team players in January and play our way out of the mire.
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If we want to enjoy football again then we should let Garde purchase some good quality first team players in January and play our way out of the mire.
Yes that woud be great. Spend the required £50-70 million in January on the 5 quality first team players that we need, overhaul a probable 10 point gap and kick on next season.
And while we're at it lets have Kate Upton round for a quickie before each match.
I'm genuinely gutted to say it ain't gonna happen.
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If we want to enjoy football again then we should let Garde purchase some good quality first team players in January and play our way out of the mire.
agree with that although if we dont have a minimum of 12 points on the board at 5pm on 1st jan we are down so no point unless we are buying ready for the championship
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I don't go to the Villa to see Chelsea, Man United, Man City etc. I go to see the my team win more games than they lose, play decent football send me home with a smile on my face. That hasn't happened for a long time now, so if we have to drop a division so be it.
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It would certainly be fun if we spanked Birmingham, Wolves, Forest, Derby, Coventry, Walsall, Burton, Sheffield Wed, Leeds etc and came back up with something close to record points.
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Obviously none of us want to go down. But in reality it's 90% likely and i've already kind of accepted we deserve it this season.
That said, I genuinely don't see the big deal when/if we do. Apart from some record of having been in the PL for it's entirety and missing out on going to grounds we've probably all become bored with do we really care ?
We're just existing to survive every year in the PL and it's no fun any more. A change of scenery might be just what the doctor ordered to get the juices flowing again/
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We're not £50-70 million away from safety. We need quality players. They may well command £10 million plus, but in the short term, that may be what is required to really strengthen the spine and allow the players of good quality, like Veretout and Ayew, who are looking increasingly more like it, to have a good crack at the league.
That's your recipe for turning it around, not travelling to some 2nd Division shit heap on a Saturday in some Mickey Mouse league.
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No fun to hang around
Feeling that same old way
No Fun to hang around
Freaked out for another day
No Fun
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We're not £50-70 million away from safety. We need quality players. They may well command £10 million plus, but in the short term, that may be what is required to really strengthen the spine and allow the players of good quality, like Veretout and Ayew, who are looking increasingly more like it, to have a good crack at the league.
That's your recipe for turning it around, not travelling to some 2nd Division shit heap on a Saturday in some Mickey Mouse league.
We are a micky mouse club & have been for some time.
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It would be shit. Even if we pissed the title i'd hate being in division 2. I hated it in 87/88. Villa should never be out the top flight.
This
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We'd be everyone's cup final home and away. We wouldn't be having the massive away support of the past in the lower leagues because of lower allocations etc. It would be shit. Fail to come straight back up and it would be even more shit.
And this
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Team not club.
I differentiate the great club, fanbase, facilities, history and all round class tht is Aston Villa from the shambolic train wreck that the playing side has offered up for the last 4/5 years.
We are still a great club but we have a shit team.
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We're not £50-70 million away from safety. We need quality players. They may well command £10 million plus, but in the short term, that may be what is required to really strengthen the spine and allow the players of good quality, like Veretout and Ayew, who are looking increasingly more like it, to have a good crack at the league.
That's your recipe for turning it around, not travelling to some 2nd Division shit heap on a Saturday in some Mickey Mouse league.
We are a micky mouse club & have been for some time.
We've been badly run and lead for a long time, but we're not Mickey Mouse and never will be.
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We'd be everyone's cup final home and away. We wouldn't be having the massive away support of the past in the lower leagues because of lower allocations etc. It would be shit. Fail to come straight back up and it would be even more shit.
And this
and more this
it's fine if you come back at the first attempt and spank a few shit teams.
If you don't then it isn't just ask Forest, Wednesday and dirty Leeds
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We're not £50-70 million away from safety. We need quality players. They may well command £10 million plus, but in the short term, that may be what is required to really strengthen the spine and allow the players of good quality, like Veretout and Ayew, who are looking increasingly more like it, to have a good crack at the league.
That's your recipe for turning it around, not travelling to some 2nd Division shit heap on a Saturday in some Mickey Mouse league.
We are a micky mouse club & have been for some time.
We've been badly run and lead for a long time, but we're not Mickey Mouse and never will be.
A mickey mouse club would be your Leicester's and their fans with the happy clappy things to create an Americanised fake atmosphere. A mickey mouse club would be Chelsea, a crowd of 8,000 in the Premier league era lording it now with criminal money. A mickey mouse club would be Swansea, going through possibly the best era of their clubs history and fans turning on the manager because they've won 1 in 6.
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Far better to be poor in a league that matters than to be anything at all in one that does not.
Why? What on earth's the point of that, unless you're Villa's accountant? Apart from Lambert's arrival and the Liverpool cup semi, I've got almost no actual enjoyment out of supporting Villa for years! I've gone from pissed off, to angry, to sad, to hopeful to angry again, to worried, to resigned, over the last few seasons. And now I'm bored.
The Championship will probably be an absolute disaster for the club's financies, but fuck that. I want to see us punch at the same weight as the others, in whatever league we find ourselves and that simply will not happen in the PL, until Lerner finds a buyer and, even then, the new lot will have to invest like fuck. So, while I obviously wouldn't actively seek relegation, I can see absolutely no reason to look forward to another season of this pish. Aaaaaarrrrgh!!!!
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We would steam roller the league.
But so fucking what? No thanks, not for me, ever. Small, wanky, little clubs like Brentford or Small Heath can enjoy the right to play us by being promoted.
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Can i put a vote in for the jealous guys, they could not even play in thier own city.
Also see any club that plays the piranas after a goal.
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We would steam roller the league.
But so fucking what? No thanks, not for me, ever. Small, wanky, little clubs like Brentford or Small Heath can enjoy the right to play us by being promoted.
Really?!?!?! I'm quite convinced we would not. I wouldn't guarantee us automatic promotion either.
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The benefit would be that we may (!!!) watch us win as many games at home in one season as we have done in the last 3/4/5. Only maybe though.
It'd be nice to go into a match believing we had a chance of winning no matter who we played.
The last time I did that was with MON in charge. Even against the best teams, I still believed we could win. As did the players, which is half the battle sometimes.
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Ayew, Hutton, Gestede, Amavi, Gueye and Okore would be a very good starting point for a Championship side.
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Why not?
Who would we lose? Who in that league would have attacking players of the quality of Gil, Grealish, Sinclair, Traore? Derby have Dawkins and Weimann for fucks sake and they're always near the top.
Gestede hammered the league and he's a poor player. Much like Newcastle, we'd absolutely drill that league.
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We would steam roller the league.
I think you're in for a rude awakening sir. We'll be lucky to make the play offs next season. It's a way tougher league to get out of than you think!
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It would be terrible - having to endure at least a season of Olbiun fans trying to lord it - Wolves fans thinking they were on a par with us - the hideous ones from down the road lurking in the shadows waiting for their two Cup Finals - possibly having to play Coventry again - 25,000 crowds - Friday night football - dear Gods it would have to be something exceptional to make up for all that.
Does anyone really trust the hierachy to actually make the right decisions to get us promoted at the first attempt because I sure as hell don't.
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I think the prospect of every small-penis-syndrome bunch of Midlands scrotebags queuing up alongside every other ragtag outfit in the league to have a 'cup final' pop at the big boys will be yet another challenge we're ill-prepared for.
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I think the prospect of every small-penis-syndrome bunch of Midlands scrotebags queuing up alongside every other ragtag outfit in the league to have a 'cup final' pop at the big boys will be yet another challenge we're ill-prepared for.
Agreed - look at the treatment Traore got in the Cup!
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Cov, Blues, Wolves.... God forbid we should actually have some games that mean something. Give me these over Chelsea and Man City, where we're expected to lie down and let them rub our bellies, any day. And if it sorts the fair weather Villa fans from the real ones, even better. No need for us to shit ourselves
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Is it that we won the 1982 season's Super Cup in 1983?
Yes mate. the 1983 Super cup was played in november 1983. there must have been some sort of scheduling issue so the 1982 competition was actually played in Jan 1983, but I wasnt alive so dont quote me :-)
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Cov, Blues, Wolves.... God forbid we should actually have some games that mean something. Give me these over Chelsea and Man City, where we're expected to lie down and let them rub our bellies, any day. And if it sorts the fair weather Villa fans from the real ones, even better. No need for us to shit ourselves
It's not really anything to do with shitting ourselves, but rather the logic of wanting to get out of a league we can't win in, and dropping to a league we can win in, which if we do so consistently we'll be promoted out of, back into a league we don't like because we can't win in it. In short, being Small Heath.
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Cov, Blues, Wolves.... God forbid we should actually have some games that mean something. Give me these over Chelsea and Man City, where we're expected to lie down and let them rub our bellies, any day. And if it sorts the fair weather Villa fans from the real ones, even better. No need for us to shit ourselves
It's not really anything to do with shitting ourselves, but rather the logic of wanting to get out of a league we can't win in, and dropping to a league we can win in, which if we do so consistently we'll be promoted out of, back into a league we don't like because we can't win in it. In short, being Small Heath.
It'll be fun though, to answer the original post. Just like the last season we spent in the second was fun
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The only benefit I see in relegation is that it I would hope it will allow the club to stop struggling and get back to winning. Keep the squad together as best as possible (Newcastle managed it), critically keep the manager and his coaches and provide him with sufficient financial resources and we will come straight back up. I'm tired of scrambling around at the arse end of the table year after year, changing managers every other season. I'd rather we got it right in the PL off course but we need to get back acting with a long term plan for success, and if that involves relegation to reach it then so be it.
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Is it that we won the 1982 season's Super Cup in 1983?
Yes mate. the 1983 Super cup was played in november 1983. there must have been some sort of scheduling issue so the 1982 competition was actually played in Jan 1983, but I wasnt alive so dont quote me :-)
We played Penarol in the 1982 World Club Cup Championship (one off game) in December 1982 & played (or rather battled against) Barcelona in a two legged Super Cup Final a few weeks later in January 1983 - was it because of the WCCF that meant the Super Cup was a bit later ? - although I tend to remember Liverpool who were European Champions immediately before us played their WCCF on the equivalent weekend in 1981.
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Cov, Blues, Wolves.... God forbid we should actually have some games that mean something. Give me these over Chelsea and Man City, where we're expected to lie down and let them rub our bellies, any day. And if it sorts the fair weather Villa fans from the real ones, even better. No need for us to shit ourselves
It's not really anything to do with shitting ourselves, but rather the logic of wanting to get out of a league we can't win in, and dropping to a league we can win in, which if we do so consistently we'll be promoted out of, back into a league we don't like because we can't win in it. In short, being Small Heath.
It'll be fun though, to answer the original post. Just like the last season we spent in the second was fun
It was a different world then. Everything about what happened last time is crystallised in a rose-tinted moment where we were all young, stood on terraces, had a laugh and didn't have to fork out a fortune to watch our team (football in general was more fun). We won significantly more than we lost. It only lasted one year. And the gulf between the first and second division wasn't so vast, so we were able to bounce back in the top flight. Those were the mitigating circumstances that I don't see rematerialising this time around.
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George Ramsay was never manager, neither was Billy Smith, and the latter wasn't our last secretary either. Jimmy McMullan seems to have been both our first and our third manager, so well done him. Alex Massie left in 1949, not 1950. Eric Houghton was not our only manager to become a director. We didn't win the 1982 Super Cup.
I hate to question your knowledge.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_European_Super_Cup)
In January 1983. That makes it the 1983 Super Cup.
not really, is the season after we won the 1981 European cup, so who won the 1982 European super cup then?
Is it that we won the 1982 season's Super Cup in 1983?
Yes mate. the 1983 Super cup was played in november 1983. there must have been some sort of scheduling issue so the 1982 competition was actually played in Jan 1983, but I wasnt alive so dont quote me :-)
We played Penarol in the 1982 World Club Cup Championship (one off game) in December 1982 & played (or rather battled against) Barcelona in a two legged Super Cup Final a few weeks later in January 1983 - was it because of the WCCF that meant the Super Cup was a bit later ? - although I tend to remember Liverpool who were European Champions immediately before us played their WCCF on the equivalent weekend in 1981.
Surely it's the 1982-83 Super Cup?
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Miserable beggar. The pubs near the grounds will still sell beer, trains will still run (the Football Specials are no more), away games will still be a laugh and some 2nd division games might just be affordable. We might even enjoy ourselves if we only let ourselves...
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The only benefit I see in relegation is that it I would hope it will allow the club to stop struggling and get back to winning. Keep the squad together as best as possible (Newcastle managed it), critically keep the manager and his coaches and provide him with sufficient financial resources and we will come straight back up. I'm tired of scrambling around at the arse end of the table year after year, changing managers every other season. I'd rather we got it right in the PL off course but we need to get back acting with a long term plan for success, and if that involves relegation to reach it then so be it.
This is how I feel. We've been in and around the bottom area for too long !
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Would it be more fun if we went down?
No.
With the money that the other teams in the PL will be getting, it will make it very difficult for us to compete. If we can't attract players of a sufficient standard as a PL club, it is going to be very difficult to attract them if we're down.
We don't deserve to stay up at the minute, but a turn around over the Christmas fixtures and we will be right back in it. Our 7 fixtures following Arsenal are entirely winnable: New (A), W.Ham (H), Nor (A), Sun (A), C.Pal (H), Lei (H), WBA (A). In my head, I'm targeting 14 points from 21 here - if we get 14, we'll be half way to safety.
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From the time we won it, for donkey's years it was the 1983 Super Cup. I've got pennants, badges etc that all say that. On the OS on the honours list it now uses 1982/83 Super Cup which it never used to. I think it's what CD said a few pages back, UEFA changed the years.
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We would steam roller the league.
I think you're in for a rude awakening sir. We'll be lucky to make the play offs next season. It's a way tougher league to get out of than you think!
It's a tough league to get out of at the moment because all the teams trying to get out of it at the moment are equally rubbish. Not because everybody is really good.
David Nugent, Bobby Zamora and Andi Weimann are the players scoring the goals for the teams at the top of the league. Gestede and Ayew would probably get 40 goals between them in the Championship.
As Ads says, that's not something to be proud of or excited by as we shouldn't be there in the first place, but assuming we go down then we'll canter to promotion - just like an equally badly-run Newcastle did half a decade ago.
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Still no
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Miserable beggar. The pubs near the grounds will still sell beer, trains will still run (the Football Specials are no more), away games will still be a laugh and some 2nd division games might just be affordable. We might even enjoy ourselves if we only let ourselves...
You say that, but we'd be category AA for every game we played, as the home teams could guarantee that we'd sell out their poxy away end.
We wouldn't even be the most expensive season ticket down there.
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I just looked at sha away ticket prices for upcoming games, £32 Boro, £29 Derby, £36 Sheff Weds, Preston £24. I hope my laptop didn't get a virus visiting their poxy site.
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"The average price of the cheapest away ticket in the Championship came out at £22.69 and the average most expensive is £30.06"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34504788
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Christ, this is all rather depressing 8)
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We could do a Wolves. Shit season followed by another and end up 2 divs down. Just trying to balance it up as some think we will piss the league.
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The only benefit I see in relegation is that it I would hope it will allow the club to stop struggling and get back to winning. Keep the squad together as best as possible (Newcastle managed it), critically keep the manager and his coaches and provide him with sufficient financial resources and we will come straight back up. I'm tired of scrambling around at the arse end of the table year after year, changing managers every other season. I'd rather we got it right in the PL off course but we need to get back acting with a long term plan for success, and if that involves relegation to reach it then so be it.
This is how I feel. We've been in and around the bottom area for too long !
Just because Newcastle managed it doesn't mean we would - it took us 8 (long) years to come back in 1967 and without wishing to run down the promotion winning team of 1988, it's worth remembering we merely pipped Middlesboro on "goals scored".
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The only benefit I see in relegation is that it I would hope it will allow the club to stop struggling and get back to winning. Keep the squad together as best as possible (Newcastle managed it), critically keep the manager and his coaches and provide him with sufficient financial resources and we will come straight back up. I'm tired of scrambling around at the arse end of the table year after year, changing managers every other season. I'd rather we got it right in the PL off course but we need to get back acting with a long term plan for success, and if that involves relegation to reach it then so be it.
This is how I feel. We've been in and around the bottom area for too long !
Just because Newcastle managed it doesn't mean we would - it took us 8 (long) years to come back in 1967 and without wishing to run down the promotion winning team of 1988, it's worth remembering we merely pipped Middlesboro on "goals scored".
There are no guarantees so let's get that out of the way. However you decided to present examples of when we went down, yet dismissed Newcastle or any number of sides every bit as horrible or dysfunctional that have come back up quickly. I realize things could be better behind the scenes at Villa but Newcastle are a perfect example that it doesn't need to be perfect for it not to impact the playing objectives. And compared to Newcastle we are a well oiled machine not the incompetent buffoons we often appear to depict.
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Lowering expectations to such an extent that we would take a step out of the top division for a season or two (or three or four...) is seriously selling Aston Villa short. That the last five seasons has us thinking this way is a tribute the way we've been run in that time. We've had over 100 years as a top flight club. I am proud of our status as one of the only clubs to have not dropped out of the Premier League - and I don't want that little club becoming all the more exclusive at our expense.
Relegation is a shitty experience and I'd urge everyone to keep strong and ignore the Sirens' call.
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Lowering expectations to such an extent that we would take a step out of the top division for a season or two (or three or four...) is seriously selling Aston Villa short. That the last five seasons has us thinking this way is a tribute the way we've been run in that time. We've had over 100 years as a top flight club. I am proud of our status as one of the only clubs to have not dropped out of the Premier League - and I don't want that little club becoming all the more exclusive at our expense.
Relegation is a shitty experience and I'd urge everyone to keep strong and ignore the Sirens' call.
Well said. There's a lot of football left to play.
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I've been a bit disappointed with the quality of the peanut butter on my breakfast recently. However, I am not even slightly tempted to think shit on toast would be more fun.
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Lowering expectations to such an extent that we would take a step out of the top division for a season or two (or three or four...) is seriously selling Aston Villa short. That the last five seasons has us thinking this way is a tribute the way we've been run in that time. We've had over 100 years as a top flight club. I am proud of our status as one of the only clubs to have not dropped out of the Premier League - and I don't want that little club becoming all the more exclusive at our expense.
Relegation is a shitty experience and I'd urge everyone to keep strong and ignore the Sirens' call.
Spot on.
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No to relegation. Under any circumstances.
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Dont get all this hope that we would fare any better in the Championship than in the premier league ... we are toxic ... team is fucked confidence wise and who would realisticly want to buy any of our lot at the moment.
So we would be left with what we have ... confidence further knocked by a relegation on high wages so no new signings.
Also when did we last easily skittle any of the lower league sides in cup competitions how many times have we been embarrassed in recent years ??
I doubt there is much difference between bottom 3rd of prem and top 3rd of championship so returning at first attempt would not be as easy as some think and a second season in the championship would be a disaster.
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If we go down
We just have to get on with it, nothing else we can do
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Dont get all this hope that we would fare any better in the Championship than in the premier league
You think that if we get relegated then next season we'll only win one of our first 15 matches? I call bullshit.
So we would be left with what we have ... confidence further knocked by a relegation on high wages so no new signings.
The wages would be in line with our income. So there almost certainly would be new signings. And even if they weren't, the squad that we currently have is better than any squad in the Championship currently.
Also when did we last easily skittle any of the lower league sides in cup competitions how many times have we been embarrassed in recent years ??
Well, we beat both lower league teams that we played this season and we've been rubbish. Last season we beat both Championship teams that we played. And we were rubbish last season as well.
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That semi final feeling as we left Wembley in April just seems like a lifetime ago.
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No!
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If we go down it is because we are not good enough. The worst possible thing would be to hang on to the poorer players, even though they may be good enough to do reasonably well in the Championship. You have to get rid of the poor players because they will be no better coming back into the PL, if not, you become a yo-yo team. Relegation must mean rebuilding under a bit less pressure.
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It would be shit. Even if we pissed the title i'd hate being in division 2. I hated it in 87/88. Villa should never be out the top flight.
True that
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The worst possible thing would be to hang on to the poorer players, even though they may be good enough to do reasonably well in the Championship. You have to get rid of the poor players because they will be no better coming back into the PL, if not, you become a yo-yo team.
Why can't we get rid of them the summer after we go up, when they are part of a promotion winning squad and therefore at the peak of their value rather than when they are part of a relegated squad and their value is at it's lowest?
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I'd still hate it and think it was shit. However a bit of me can't help thinking it may be what we need to just get rid of the losing mentality around the club.
And sort of in reply to OMVF, one thing we've hardly ever seen of just about every player in the squad is them playing with confidence on a regular basis. They may be totally different players without the pressure of constantly fighting the drop.
For what it's worth I think we'd come straight back up comfortably, it would still be shit though.
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Yes definitely just so Gerry Sinstadt could once again utter the immortal words 'huge crowds followed them round the country roaring them onto promotion.'
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I'd enjoy travelling to new grounds for a season and then suddenly realise we're still there come August the following year, long term it would be shit but its shit now and has been for years, there's not a team i think we have a chance of beating.Sorry for being selfish but I want to enjoy myself again and if that means a season of unpredictable results and travelling to real grounds with real supporters instead of glory hunting arseholes and paying £55 for the privalige of getting thumped then count me in.....but only for one season, then I'd like to come back, thanks very much, we've been a very naughty club and we'd like to come back now.
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I am looking forward to it. Something has to give. The last 5 years have been demoralisingly every bloody week. I would take my lad down a fair bit, there would be some decent ticket deals to do so, we might win now and again, our younger players would have a chance to grow in confidence (which is such a huge factor) and we might find an identity of play and style while we are at it.
I genuinely think we would come straight back too, IF we kept hold of the manager and majority of the players.
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My first post here after looking for ages.
I'd hate the Chumpionship, Villa are one of the countries biggest clubs, we DESERVE to be top 4, top flight every season, it's almost a criminal act by the likes of Lerner that we aren't. We won the European Cup ffs, been in the top flight more than not and founded the football league.
It won't be more fun, I'll be angry at every game while we play teams who don't deserve to play against us, and at home shouldn't even grace our pitch with their mediocrity.
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Obvious Albion fan is obvious.
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You'll have to do better than that sunshine
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How? Because I love this club and I am passionate about where I feel we really should be?
Too many have lowered their expectations too far, but I won't.
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If you're going to register on a football club's messageboard it's a good idea not to use an e mail address that traces right back to another club's board.
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The worst possible thing would be to hang on to the poorer players, even though they may be good enough to do reasonably well in the Championship. You have to get rid of the poor players because they will be no better coming back into the PL, if not, you become a yo-yo team.
Why can't we get rid of them the summer after we go up, when they are part of a promotion winning squad and therefore at the peak of their value rather than when they are part of a relegated squad and their value is at it's lowest?
You want to build a team and team spirit during a promotion season and just add a few more quality players once promoted.
Finances are important but not as important as coming back up with a team that would compete for a top 10 place.
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My first post here after looking for ages.
I'd hate the Chumpionship, Villa are one of the countries biggest clubs, we DESERVE to be top 4, top flight every season, it's almost a criminal act by the likes of Lerner that we aren't. We won the European Cup ffs, been in the top flight more than not and founded the football league.
It won't be more fun, I'll be angry at every game while we play teams who don't deserve to play against us, and at home shouldn't even grace our pitch with their mediocrity.
You won't be the first, or the last, Bitter to spend ages looking on here. But you're not obsessed with us, no siree.
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My first post here after looking for ages.
I'd hate the Chumpionship, Villa are one of the countries biggest clubs, we DESERVE to be top 4, top flight every season, it's almost a criminal act by the likes of Lerner that we aren't. We won the European Cup ffs, been in the top flight more than not and founded the football league.
It won't be more fun, I'll be angry at every game while we play teams who don't deserve to play against us, and at home shouldn't even grace our pitch with their mediocrity.
Ha ha, you gota laugh
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I've been thinking about this, and obviously this is just my view on things. I'm 30 years old, which means I'm old enough to have seen us in every premier league season. I've seen us win trophies, get to finals, have good league seasons here and there. Been away and had some great days. Relegation won't change my love for the club, nor will it stop me from going (infrequent as it is right now but that's a side issue). My son is 3 years old now and will be 4 in March. He is starting to find an interest in football. He recognises Villa badges, and always says 'I want Villa to win' regardless who is playing on the television. A time is going to come soon where it'll be his first match at VP. It won't matter to him who we're playing, or if we play well or anything like that. And I'm starting to think if it doesn't matter to him, then I shouldn't be upset about us being relegated. It'll still be the Villa.
I've not given up hope of us staying up. It is still in our hands, just!
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I'm more concerned what the last few years have done to our future fan base.
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I can smell a Stripey Bitter a mile off, the sad twats.
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The stench of inadequacy is always strong with a Stripey twat and the word Villa never far from his lips.
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I can smell a Stripey Bitter a mile off, the sad twats.
Blose and Albion fans spend far more time banging on about us winning the European Cup in 1982 (and the fact that we allegedly never stop going on about it) than we do.
Presumably if they had ever won a European trophy (stop laughing at the back there) they would have just said "what oh chaps, jolly good show" and then never mentioned it again. Bearing in mind the Albion had a memorial dinner to celebrate the anniversary of an away win at Old Trafford.
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That and the faint whiff of pork scratchings is what gave the mouth breather away.
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From a totally selfish point of veiw it will be all over for me if we went down. For last few seasons I've sold extra tickets to lads at work and the Villa Cash accumulated has saved me approx £100 on my season ticket. A lot of these lads are Polish or support lower league clubs and just want to catch a prem game, but a couple are Villa fans (and they've already lost interest). I doubt any of them will want to watch Championship matches.
Also I doubt I'll be able to watch the away games on the internet I mean who shows Championship streams?
The best players will leave it we will be left with the dross who have long contracts like Westwood.
I don't think we would be back for a long time.
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That's a good point about away steams, I hadn't thought of that.
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My first post here after looking for ages.
I'd hate the Chumpionship, Villa are one of the countries biggest clubs, we DESERVE to be top 4, top flight every season, it's almost a criminal act by the likes of Lerner that we aren't. We won the European Cup ffs, been in the top flight more than not and founded the football league.
It won't be more fun, I'll be angry at every game while we play teams who don't deserve to play against us, and at home shouldn't even grace our pitch with their mediocrity.
You won't be the first, or the last, Bitter to spend ages looking on here. But you're not obsessed with us, no siree.
We have been out of the top flight 12 seasons in our 141 year history. This time though it will be catastrophic if we go down as we are forfeiting over £100 million. The clubs who survive eg: Crystal Palace, Leicester, Swansea etc will all leapfrog our once mighty club.
That is the reality of Randy Lerner's penny pinching experiment. Thanks a bunch Randy.
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I can smell a Stripey Bitter a mile off, the sad twats.
Blose and Albion fans spend far more time banging on about us winning the European Cup in 1982 (and the fact that we allegedly never stop going on about it) than we do.
Presumably if they had ever won a European trophy (stop laughing at the back there) they would have just said "what oh chaps, jolly good show" and then never mentioned it again. Bearing in mind the Albion had a memorial dinner to celebrate the anniversary of an away win at Old Trafford.
Thanks. That's made me chuckle.
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That's a good point about away steams, I hadn't thought of that.
I mentioned the bit about no streams for away games somewhere else, and someone said there are streams for Championship matches. So last weekend while I was waiting for the Southampton game I had a quick mosey about for Championship streams. I think there was just one game covered. So the prospect for away games next season will be commentary on WM. *shudder*
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I dread the thought of us going down
And if anyone thinks that on a wet night in November we will get 25,000 to watch us play Brentford then they are mistaken
Also if we do get relegated, you watch the number of Staff that work at the Villa that are made redundant. I bet FOX and co. have already done the calculations....
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I don't have faith in the custodians of the club to re-organise us well enough to compete in the Championship, however well meaning they are. They have somehow conspired through naivety to bring us to the very brink of relegation, how can we trust them to do anything right, in any league?
If we are to go down there's no guarantee that we will bounce back. We'd be hoping for our better players (on paper) to show some class but they haven't exactly shown much so far and I could imagine any class we do have being engulfed by harder working teams with better morale.
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Most posts to this thread are ignoring the original question. Would it be more fun?
Having sat through the last five years and reached the point where every time I go to VP I expect us to lose, regardless of who we're playing, I can't see how it could be any less fun. Whilst I don't think we'll piss the Championship I would expect us to win more than we lose at home and that, if nothing else, will make it more fun.
I just can't comprehend a Villa fan who says he won't enjoy watching Villa win just because we're in the wrong division.
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The idea of Friday night games. games in midweek on a more regular basis and just the fact that we'd been relegated is enough for me. No, it would be horrible.
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I would enjoy watching Villa win but knowing that we were a million miles away from where I think we should be would always rankle with me.
For me, I'd love the Villa in any league - that won't change, but it'll be a bitter thing to take knowing that this famous old club had been ejected from the top table. So it wouldn't be more fun for me, not for a few more wins. Maybe in time, who knows.
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I'd go and watch the Villa even if they were Playing in the Festival league at Cooksey Lane.
One thing I don't wish to see is: sponsor's names emblazoned across the arse of the players' shorts.
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That's a good point about away steams, I hadn't thought of that.
I'm sure our crew would still be up for it, proper nawty that lot.
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It'd be shit even though I enjoyed 1987-88 as a teenager.
We'd have much reduced income outweighed by wages bill. Garde could well fuck off no doubt having learned a lot but unable to change owt.
There would be NO Graham Taylor this time. Totally different circumstance.
We'd get someone like Neil Lennon or heaven forbid some other O'Neill / Fergie accolyte. We'd have Richardson, Lescott, Gabby, Hutton and the other oldies running down their expensive contracts.
Westwood, Clark, Baker would be a shoo in as starters.
Amavi, Veretout and Richards would go elsewhere. Sanchez would likely clear off.
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Would be more fun to actually have games at 3pm on a Saturday more often.
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Would be more fun to actually have games at 3pm on a Saturday more often.
I doubt that. We'd be first pick for Friday, early Saturday and early Sunday games. Even games on Monday and Thursday's now.
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Would be more fun to actually have games at 3pm on a Saturday more often.
I doubt that. We'd be first pick for Friday, early Saturday and early Sunday games. Even games on Monday and Thursday's now.
5 out of our 15 games haven't been on Sat at 3pm, good luck matching that in the championship
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I don't have faith in the custodians of the club to re-organise us well enough to compete in the Championship, however well meaning they are. They have somehow conspired through naivety to bring us to the very brink of relegation, how can we trust them to do anything right, in any league?
If we are to go down there's no guarantee that we will bounce back. We'd be hoping for our better players (on paper) to show some class but they haven't exactly shown much so far and I could imagine any class we do have being engulfed by harder working teams with better morale.
Tend to agree.
No way are we inferior personnel-wise to Bournemouth, Watford, Norwich and Sunderland.
And I don't think Leicester City are streets ahead of us quality-wise either. But what those sides do have (Slumberland apart) is a general sense of forward momentum these past few years - or year, in the case of Norwich.
We on the other hand have been going through what feels like a managed decline since 2011.
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Amavi, Veretout and Richards would go elsewhere. Sanchez would likely clear off.
Where are you thinking that they would be off to?
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Would be more fun to actually have games at 3pm on a Saturday more often.
I doubt that. We'd be first pick for Friday, early Saturday and early Sunday games. Even games on Monday and Thursday's now.
5 out of our 15 games haven't been on Sat at 3pm, good luck matching that in the championship
Well as we'll be playing 8 more games we would have higher volume.
Looking at Derby they have played 8 of 19 at 3.00 p.m.
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My first post here after looking for ages.
I'd hate the Chumpionship, Villa are one of the countries biggest clubs, we DESERVE to be top 4, top flight every season, it's almost a criminal act by the likes of Lerner that we aren't. We won the European Cup ffs, been in the top flight more than not and founded the football league.
It won't be more fun, I'll be angry at every game while we play teams who don't deserve to play against us, and at home shouldn't even grace our pitch with their mediocrity.
You won't be the first, or the last, Bitter to spend ages looking on here. But you're not obsessed with us, no siree.
We have been out of the top flight 12 seasons in our 141 year history. This time though it will be catastrophic if we go down as we are forfeiting over £100 million. The clubs who survive eg: Crystal Palace, Leicester, Swansea etc will all leapfrog our once mighty club.
That is the reality of Randy Lerner's penny pinching experiment. Thanks a bunch Randy.
might y over 100 years ago bar 5-10 year spell in 70-80s
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every single year for the past 5 seasons there have been people all over this place telling me 'its the worst possible year to go down' every season without fail its a catasrophie if we take the drop
wolf has been called so many times I don't believe it would be worse, it would just be as bad,
you go down you lose out you come back you get a bit more to give to players
the prem will be swimming in money to waste for a few seasons yet, no matter which season we eventualy go, it will be the worst no doubt, longer you stay out the bigger the gap obviously
hopefully we never find out
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The best thing is the almost relentless Sat-Wed-Sat football in the Championship. Cool. And I want to win that trophy again as we should have in 87-88. Just one last time.
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More fun?
It'd be like the club saying "We've been sticking pins in your eyes for the past few years, now we're gonna stick them in your bollox instead".
Going to VP is a hard habit to break. It took the combined efforts of turner, mcbungle and lipgloss to cure me of that addiction. It made perfect sense to play another 18 holes on a Saturday rather than rush to VP.
Not going to VP is also a hard habit to break. It'll take something special to get me to invest my hard earned and time in the stinking corpse that AVFC has become.
And it certainly won't be second tier football.
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There are literally no plus points to going down, not one. It is going to be total shit next season, any victory would be hollow and only serve to remind us how far we have fallen.
I doubt we will come straight back up either.
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That's a good point about away steams, I hadn't thought of that.
I mentioned the bit about no streams for away games somewhere else, and someone said there are streams for Championship matches. So last weekend while I was waiting for the Southampton game I had a quick mosey about for Championship streams. I think there was just one game covered. So the prospect for away games next season will be commentary on WM. *shudder*
I mentioned it but I didn't investigate it fully. Just and this is embarrassing I have a stepson who is a nose and wanted to know where to watch their match against Wolves and I found it on a betting website stream of all places.
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going down would be manageable if it was one season, its if we dont come back up at the first opportunity it will be shit
if we are still down and the parachute money finishes it will be a nightmare
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It would be embarrassing. I would hate every minute of it. Victories would be hollow as being out of the top flight is beneath Aston Villa.
The playing staff would have to be gutted. We would have to sell so many players ends meet, who knows what we would be left with? We’d still be enduring Lambert’s awful tactics and diabolical football, only this time in the company of a league full of Mickey Mouse clubs.
Villa Park would become even more lifeless, apart from perhaps one game out of the 23 where we play the Noses. For everybody else, it would be a cup final. The pressure to come back up would be immense, having 23 sides come and pretend they’re playing in an FA Cup semi-final would make home games an even greater misery than they already are.
Away games would be terrible too. The away support in the championship is rubbish; the clubs in there average around 1100. We would be the only club to take a big away following everywhere we went. By the same token, all the locals would turn out for a curious stare at the floundering whale of a club, drowning in the shallows. It would be like a trip to the New Den every other week and I have no desire to be locked in more often than not.
It would be an awful experience and given how badly we fare against lower league opposition under this manager, we would be more likely to be relegated again than come back up.
spot on
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I would enjoy watching Villa win but knowing that we were a million miles away from where I think we should be would always rankle with me.
For me, I'd love the Villa in any league - that won't change, but it'll be a bitter thing to take knowing that this famous old club had been ejected from the top table. So it wouldn't be more fun for me, not for a few more wins. Maybe in time, who knows.
We were ejected from the top table long ago. For the last five years the main objective has been to avoid being relegated with a secondary objective of fluking a cup - all while turning a profit. It's hardly the stuff dreams are made of.
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More fun?
It'd be like the club saying "We've been sticking pins in your eyes for the past few years, now we're gonna stick them in your bollox instead".
Going to VP is a hard habit to break. It took the combined efforts of turner, mcbungle and lipgloss to cure me of that addiction. It made perfect sense to play another 18 holes on a Saturday rather than rush to VP.
Not going to VP is also a hard habit to break. It'll take something special to get me to invest my hard earned and time in the stinking corpse that AVFC has become.
And it certainly won't be second tier football.
Your first post for 5 1/2 years was to tell us that you won't start watching a team you haven't watched for 25 years. Thanks for that.
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At the end of the day we have to face the fact that we are no longer good enough for this league and will pay the price for years of austerity and poor management decisions.
There is absolutely no doubt that going down will be shit and embarrassing.
But, the football we have been watching for the last 5 years has already been shit and embarrassing.
We are already seen as a basket case, and I guess most other clubs fans already expect that we are down.
If (when) it happens it will not be the end of the world.
It will hurt through the summer, but then by August we will all be up for the season ahead.
It will still be a round ball.
It will still be 11v 11.
We'll still go for a pint before the game, buy a programme, go for a piss, have a moan, shout and swear, and go home after the game.
The difference is that we might win a few more games than we do now, and that will be a good thing.
I'm not saying by any stretch that it be some sort of championship utopia, but it will still be football, and we'll just have to make the best of it.
And we will.
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That's a good point about away steams, I hadn't thought of that.
I mentioned the bit about no streams for away games somewhere else, and someone said there are streams for Championship matches. So last weekend while I was waiting for the Southampton game I had a quick mosey about for Championship streams. I think there was just one game covered. So the prospect for away games next season will be commentary on WM. *shudder*
Sky show plenty of championship games, Leeds seem to be on every other week so we'll be on plenty of times next season. The main game on the channel five highlights will also get a stream.
Midweek home and away games I doubt though, will be like the early rounds of the carling cup.
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At the end of the day we have to face the fact that we are no longer good enough for this league and will pay the price for years of austerity and poor management decisions.
There is absolutely no doubt that going down will be shit and embarrassing.
But, the football we have been watching for the last 5 years has already been shit and embarrassing.
We are already seen as a basket case, and I guess most other clubs fans already expect that we are down.
If (when) it happens it will not be the end of the world.
It will hurt through the summer, but then by August we will all be up for the season ahead.
It will still be a round ball.
It will still be 11v 11.
We'll still go for a pint before the game, buy a programme, go for a piss, have a moan, shout and swear, and go home after the game.
The difference is that we might win a few more games than we do now, and that will be a good thing.
I'm not saying by any stretch that it be some sort of championship utopia, but it will still be football, and we'll just have to make the best of it.
And we will.
Agreed on all of that.
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Away games would be terrible too. The away support in the championship is rubbish; the clubs in there average around 1100. We would be the only club to take a big away following everywhere we went. By the same token, all the locals would turn out for a curious stare at the floundering whale of a club, drowning in the shallows. It would be like a trip to the New Den every other week and I have no desire to be locked in more often than not.
spot on
A mate of mine who is a Fulham season ticket holder reckons that Leeds brought more this season (5k) than most premier league clubs did in the last couple of season before Fulham were relegated. I think it was midweek too. He also reckons they have one of the largest away followings in the country partly because they get larger allocations at many grounds than the standard 2000 or so in the premier league.
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We might win a few more games.
I think we will have something to play for all through the season. (playoffs at least)
We wont see the likes of Nzogbia.
We will hopefully really clear the deadwood.
It will allow some of the promising youngsters to come through.
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More fun?
It'd be like the club saying "We've been sticking pins in your eyes for the past few years, now we're gonna stick them in your bollox instead".
Going to VP is a hard habit to break. It took the combined efforts of turner, mcbungle and lipgloss to cure me of that addiction. It made perfect sense to play another 18 holes on a Saturday rather than rush to VP.
Not going to VP is also a hard habit to break. It'll take something special to get me to invest my hard earned and time in the stinking corpse that AVFC has become.
And it certainly won't be second tier football.
Your first post for 5 1/2 years was to tell us that you won't start watching a team you haven't watched for 25 years. Thanks for that.
You are indeed welcome.
And correct.
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More fun?
It'd be like the club saying "We've been sticking pins in your eyes for the past few years, now we're gonna stick them in your bollox instead".
Going to VP is a hard habit to break. It took the combined efforts of turner, mcbungle and lipgloss to cure me of that addiction. It made perfect sense to play another 18 holes on a Saturday rather than rush to VP.
Not going to VP is also a hard habit to break. It'll take something special to get me to invest my hard earned and time in the stinking corpse that AVFC has become.
And it certainly won't be second tier football.
I may be miles out here, but if I hadn't done something I used to enjoy for twenty odd years, I don't think I'd have the slightest interest in going online to talk about it.
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More fun?
It'd be like the club saying "We've been sticking pins in your eyes for the past few years, now we're gonna stick them in your bollox instead".
Going to VP is a hard habit to break. It took the combined efforts of turner, mcbungle and lipgloss to cure me of that addiction. It made perfect sense to play another 18 holes on a Saturday rather than rush to VP.
Not going to VP is also a hard habit to break. It'll take something special to get me to invest my hard earned and time in the stinking corpse that AVFC has become.
And it certainly won't be second tier football.
I may be miles out here, but if I hadn't done something I used to enjoy for twenty odd years, I don't think I'd have the slightest interest in going online to talk about it.
The passage of time doesn't stop me caring about the Villa, or even becoming angry about the slow, painful and embarrassing decline of a once great club.
I'm not on my own in this, where are all the other youngsters, like me, that were in that huge crowd against Bournemouth all those years ago? Why aren't the Villa attracting 54,000 these days? (Yes I know VP'S capacity has decreased).
The answers are self evident.
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It was 48K. Our average this season is higher than it was then.
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Away games would be terrible too. The away support in the championship is rubbish; the clubs in there average around 1100. We would be the only club to take a big away following everywhere we went. By the same token, all the locals would turn out for a curious stare at the floundering whale of a club, drowning in the shallows. It would be like a trip to the New Den every other week and I have no desire to be locked in more often than not.
spot on
A mate of mine who is a Fulham season ticket holder reckons that Leeds brought more this season (5k) than most premier league clubs did in the last couple of season before Fulham were relegated. I think it was midweek too. He also reckons they have one of the largest away followings in the country partly because they get larger allocations at many grounds than the standard 2000 or so in the premier league.
Leeds have also taken 6,500 to MK Dons, 4,000 to Reading & Huddersfield and 4,500 to Bolton this season yet their away support is down on previous seasons in that they're no longer selling out away games - so there is the capacity for bigger away followings in the Championship. And they haven't been to Hillsborough or Burnley yet either.
It will be a massive blow to the club as a business if we go down, but from a supporters point of view it's really just visiting different places to come back miserable from - as my Leeds supporting best mate always says.
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Not up to date as they seem a bit slow updating info, but gives an idea of away support so far this season down there.
(http://the72.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/attendance-nov-8.png)
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Fuck all this doom and gloom - if it happens we'll just have to get on with it.
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Fuck all this doom and gloom - if it happens we'll just have to get on with it.
Absolutely right. As soon as it happens (if it does at all), start planning to get back up.
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If I were still living in England and could go regularly I wouldn't mind so much. I'd still be able to go to the match, have a pint, etc. It would be cheaper, we'd probably win more and the matches would regularly be on a Saturday afternoon. However, the thought of having to squint at an internet stream watching Championship football does not fill me with much joy. I never understand those that get righteous about going to games, you don't know how easy you have it ;)
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Great stats table. Is there one like that for the premier league?
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Everyone keeps saying it will be cheaper - I certainly can't see us dropping our prices significantly, but yes hopefull away games would be.
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Looking at that table, Blues tactic is clearly to take big followings to a couple of grounds, to bump their average up as more often than not they take around 800.
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Everyone keeps saying it will be cheaper - I certainly can't see us dropping our prices significantly, but yes hopefull away games would be.
It'll work out cheaper per game on a season ticket based on 4 more games. Is there still a VillaValue match category? Wouldn't most games fall into that, under the current normal definition of such? As for category A games, I'd expect every possible length to be taken to turn games into "derbies". As for aways, won't we find ourselves in the manure-et-al situation whereby wherever we go we'll be a top-dollar game? I reckon that over the course of a season, one'll fork out not much less than now.
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The idea of Friday night games. games in midweek on a more regular basis and just the fact that we'd been relegated is enough for me. No, it would be horrible.
Our Friday night game against Man Utd in August was wonderful.
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A lot of my favorite VP memories are from times when we were in the old 2nd Division. With Ron Saunders then Graham Taylor. I know things are different now, very, but I don't remember anyone then going on about how terrible it all felt that weren't in Div 1 and that it was miserable being out of the top flight. We were fighting to go up, it was exciting… and it was Villa park and we were the Villa. We ARE the Villa and everyone else can just get in the fucking sea.
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I don't think I've ever known traffic as bad for that Man United game.
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A lot of my favorite VP memories are from times when we were in the old 2nd Division. With Ron Saunders then Graham Taylor. I know things are different now, very, but I don't remember anyone then going on about how terrible it all felt that weren't in Div 1 and that it was miserable being out of the top flight. We were fighting to go up, it was exciting… and it was Villa park and we were the Villa. We ARE the Villa and everyone else can just get in the fucking sea.
Ha ha...Amen to that brother Rioch is King
UTV
The Doc
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[snip]… and it was Villa park and we were the Villa. We ARE the Villa and everyone else can just get in the fucking sea.
Amen to this! Wherever we end up it'll always be the Villa and I wouldn't swap this club for any.
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[snip]… and it was Villa park and we were the Villa. We ARE the Villa and everyone else can just get in the fucking sea.
Amen to this! Wherever we end up it'll always be the Villa and I wouldn't swap this club for any.
We are The Aston Villa
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I don't think I've ever known traffic as bad for that Man United game.
I saw parts of the West Bromwich and Walsall areas that I never even knew existed
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Not up to date as they seem a bit slow updating info, but gives an idea of away support so far this season down there.
(http://the72.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/attendance-nov-8.png)
It's good to see MK Scabs continuing one Wimbledon tradition.
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Its no fun at all going down but if we have a decent season always being in contention near the top that will for me be more enjoyable than the recent miserable seasons breaking every shit record the club has ever known, if/when it happens it will feel awful for a while and we will be in mourning, but after a summers rest we will get over it and look forward to the first game of the season, no matter what division were in were The Villa, I'm old enough to have seen the 67, 70, 87 relegations and I am prepared for this one should it happen.
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If we do go down I really don't think we will stay there very long. The shit that the Sky years have fettered upon football has produced clubs like us. Not necessarily that we can't compete with the top teams in the Prem but our debt to Lerner is manageable enough for us to use the parachute payments plus any transfer budget to bounce back. There simply isn't any clubs as big as us in the Championship at the moment. If we do go down I'd prefer a Newcastle or to a lesser degree a Sunderland to not go down with us as for size they would be competitors.
Clearly there are clubs with decent teams in the Championship but even if we were to play all 24 of them at the moment home and away I'd fancy us. We'll get better players for the division, get decent return on the ones going and will be able to be the biggest pull, or one of the biggest pulls, in the Championship. It will be crucial to add a few with quality to the team and fill in with the odd Championship level player (on top of the 11 we've got now...).
i don't think we'd stay there and it wouldn't be like the 60s when we fell through two divisions. Sky, and Lerner, has ensured we'r we're too big, and to financially stable to do that.
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If we do go down I really don't think we will stay there very long. The shit that the Sky years have fettered upon football has produced clubs like us. Not necessarily that we can't compete with the top teams in the Prem but our debt to Lerner is manageable enough for us to use the parachute payments plus any transfer budget to bounce back. There simply isn't any clubs as big as us in the Championship at the moment. If we do go down I'd prefer a Newcastle or to a lesser degree a Sunderland to not go down with us as for size they would be competitors.
Clearly there are clubs with decent teams in the Championship but even if we were to play all 24 of them at the moment home and away I'd fancy us. We'll get better players for the division, get decent return on the ones going and will be able to be the biggest pull, or one of the biggest pulls, in the Championship. It will be crucial to add a few with quality to the team and fill in with the odd Championship level player (on top of the 11 we've got now...).
i don't think we'd stay there and it wouldn't be like the 60s when we fell through two divisions. Sky, and Lerner, has ensured we'r we're too big, and to financially stable to do that.
I don't think we will stay there very long either but not in the way you imagine. The gutless bunch of chancers in our squad will struggle in what is a physical and competitive league and could easily drop straight through. It's happened before and I fear it could happen to us. I just hope I'm wrong.
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Fun or not I think its a nailed on certainty, looking at Leicester last year in the same position they had almost double our points tally. Disaster doesn't even come close to describing this season. Even the Bluenoses have taken pity on our plight........
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I think it might be slightly more fun yes, not than that would be hard ;)
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If we do go down I really don't think we will stay there very long.
I had a few freebies for Wolves v Forest last night. Two average mid table championship level teams and i can honestly say they both looked better balanced teams than we do. I can't believe folks really think we'll be bouncing back without a problem
It's like an alcoholic being in denial at how bad their problem is
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And then imagine their defences facing Gil, Adama, Sinclair, Grealish. Even Gabby and Gestede would have a field day down there.
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If we do go down I really don't think we will stay there very long.
I had a few freebies for Wolves v Forest last night. Two average mid table championship level teams and i can honestly say they both looked better balanced teams than we do. I can't believe folks really think we'll be bouncing back without a problem
It's like an alcoholic being in denial at how bad their problem is
I think its hard to tell though, because players who look useless in the PL can sometimes look more effective Championship players. It will be tough though, a lot depends on the set up at the time and us having a game plan. Lets face it the way things are going we should have plenty of time to plan ahead...
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If we do go down I really don't think we will stay there very long.
I had a few freebies for Wolves v Forest last night. Two average mid table championship level teams and i can honestly say they both looked better balanced teams than we do. I can't believe folks really think we'll be bouncing back without a problem
It's like an alcoholic being in denial at how bad their problem is
Or it could be that some of us aren't so miserable as others.
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It's very hard to turn around a club with a culture of losing and failure. So no matter how 'big' a club we are, or how much money we'd have at our disposal, we have to first eliminate the pervasive attitude of complacency and apathy at the club.
Meanwhile, every grubby little shithouse of a club will be lining up to have a pop at us with a nothing-to-lose attitude. The Villa Park games in particular will be cup finals for a lot of teams. If we don't get off to a flying start we'll struggle to stamp that losing culture out.
We like to think the likes of Gil and Adama would crucify the rubbish defences of the Championship. Maybe they would, but how do we know they'll want to stick around at a Championship club? Our first starting eleven might look very different than the one that starts tomorrow.
Was it Sir Graham Taylor who said something about the demise of big clubs? Once they start to sink, it's very, very hard to stop them plummeting under their own weight.
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Our first starting eleven might look very different than the one that starts tomorrow.
Thank ****!
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In some ways a year off playing cockpieces like Arsenal, Spurs, City, Utd, Liverpool etc would be nice. To be out of that Sky circle jerk bollocks that the English top flight has become. It'll be a league on a more level playing field. We could have the theoretical advantage of size on our side and budget.
Of course we could totally implode and double drop and fall into total oblivion like Portsmouth but even as cynical and jaded as this club has made me, I think we'll at the very least, stabilise. I would expect us to be top half minimum, and possibly top six. Ideally we'd be top 2 for automatic promotion. That shouldn't be beyond us.
Fuck the premiership. I can't stand it. If we drop out of it I'll have absolutely zero interest in the top flight. Come may 2017 I'd not be able to tell you who has won the league or been relegated. It's shit. It's full of piss kidneys and cockknobs. All the clubs are shit. Most of the players are twats. The Biggest clubs are full to the brim with plastic pillock fans.
Bugger it. Bring it on.
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I've just looked at the table for the first time in ages. Jeez! It's grim.
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I've just looked at the table for the first time in ages. Jeez! It's grim.
Were we bottom the last time you looked?
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I've just looked at the table for the first time in ages. Jeez! It's grim.
Were we bottom the last time you looked?
Yes. But I've been avoiding looking at points etc.
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Fuck the premiership. I can't stand it. If we drop out of it I'll have absolutely zero interest in the top flight.
This. Exactly this.
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Fuck the premiership. I can't stand it. If we drop out of it I'll have absolutely zero interest in the top flight.
This. Exactly this.
If the Premier League is so shit, would you both prefer it if we stayed in the Championship? I'm not being flippant, by the way, I'd seriously like to know what you think. Personally I have very little interest in any league we're not in. But is it the Premier League that we hate so much, or is it the fact that we're too shit for it?
I don't like what modern football has become, but at what point do we say we've found our level? Would we have even more 'fun' in League 1 or 2, for example, where there'd be terraces, cheap tickets, new grounds and new towns (pubs)? What do we want from supporting Villa?
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I want Villa to be as successful as possible at the level our history suggests we have earned a place to be at. That's the PL.
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Fuck the premiership. I can't stand it. If we drop out of it I'll have absolutely zero interest in the top flight.
This. Exactly this.
If the Premier League is so shit, would you both prefer it if we stayed in the Championship? I'm not being flippant, by the way, I'd seriously like to know what you think. Personally I have very little interest in any league we're not in. But is it the Premier League that we hate so much, or is it the fact that we're too shit for it?
I don't like what modern football has become, but at what point do we say we've found our level? Would we have even more 'fun' in League 1 or 2, for example, where there'd be terraces, cheap tickets, new grounds and new towns (pubs)? What do we want from supporting Villa?
I would be hoping that a year out (or more) would give me a chance to miss the Prem, if that's possible. It gives us a chance to hit the reset buttons and rebuild. Maybe we can come up with different expectations. To be honest we've been so utterly dreadful that I think we just need to get it done with and go down.
Now I'm not sure I'd enjoy L1 or 2. At least in the Championship we'd get some reasonably big games still. There's some fairly big teams in the Championship still. We'd also still retain some quality. By the time you get down to League 2 for example, we could be sorely lacking in quality, entirely reliant on a Youth academy that will have had its budget severely cut by that point.
For me though, something does need to change. A change of ownership, a change of league. I think the former will likely only come with the latter, and the latter is virtually nailed on now.
We need the wake up call though. We're a big club but we don't have a divine right to be in the top flight just because we've been ever present since Football began. We need to get a side with a bit of spirit. An ability to win. A side that could come up and do what Leicester have done, or Watford are doing this season. A side that what it might lack in quality, makes up for in gumption and good management, and is still able to entertain.
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I am fed up with the club fighting fires in the PL. I would want a clear out of the players that just go through the motions and look to build with young players around an experienced core. Forget evolution, bring on the revolution, even if it means two seasons in the Championship. We must get back on the front foot.
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Jimbo summed it up in a sentence - what do we want. I want to enjoy myself again and I know all the logical arguments and I know the Premier League is the only show in town but an increasingly large part of me right now, on a horrible cold and wet December evening would love to be in the Fat Cat in Sheffield, or the Brunswick in Derby and echoing the immortal words of joe_c, "We're here, the bar's there and there's all those beers we haven't tried yet."
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Fuck the premiership. I can't stand it. If we drop out of it I'll have absolutely zero interest in the top flight.
This. Exactly this.
If the Premier League is so shit, would you both prefer it if we stayed in the Championship? I'm not being flippant, by the way, I'd seriously like to know what you think. Personally I have very little interest in any league we're not in. But is it the Premier League that we hate so much, or is it the fact that we're too shit for it?
I don't like what modern football has become, but at what point do we say we've found our level? Would we have even more 'fun' in League 1 or 2, for example, where there'd be terraces, cheap tickets, new grounds and new towns (pubs)? What do we want from supporting Villa?
What do we want from supporting Villa ?
Hope , would be a start!
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Jimbo summed it up in a sentence - what do we want. I want to enjoy myself again and I know all the logical arguments and I know the Premier League is the only show in town but an increasingly large part of me right now, on a horrible cold and wet December evening would love to be in the Fat Cat in Sheffield, or the Brunswick in Derby and echoing the immortal words of joe_c, "We're here, the bar's there and there's all those beers we haven't tried yet."
I think the exact quote started "We have a seat" because we hadn't yet been to the Kelham Island Brewery and were prevaricating , but the sentiment remains the same, going to football is a hobby, and with all hobbies surely the main thing is that you enjoy it? If not. why are you doing it? So we take a step back, but in doing so start to actually enjoy out hobby again.
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Jimbo summed it up in a sentence - what do we want. I want to enjoy myself again and I know all the logical arguments and I know the Premier League is the only show in town but an increasingly large part of me right now, on a horrible cold and wet December evening would love to be in the Fat Cat in Sheffield, or the Brunswick in Derby and echoing the immortal words of joe_c, "We're here, the bar's there and there's all those beers we haven't tried yet."
I think the exact quote started "We have a seat" because we hadn't yet been to the Kelham Island Brewery and were prevaricating , but the sentiment remains the same, going to football is a hobby, and with all hobbies surely the main thing is that you enjoy it? If not. why are you doing it? So we take a step back, but in doing so start to actually enjoy out hobby again.
I am re-evaluating the pros and cons of the Aston Villa "hobby" - can't see many pros unfortunately as I am pretty sick of attending the longest death-scene in history
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I think this is where the concept of Relegation is a good thing, the opportunity for some blood letting, not like here where you are stuck in a Division / Leaugue for ever without any chance of even second level Glory (see Cleveland Browns). I hate the idea that we will not be in the Top Tier, it stinks but year after year of negative record setting and humiliation needs to end.
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The only clear out will be those at the end of their contracts, therefore a natural ending to their Villa career. There will be NO major planning undertaken in the Championship, why would there be? When we haven't planned at any point for the league we are currently in. i can fully understand the sick of seeing us struggle mentality but to expect Villa to suddenly get real and set the world alight in the Championship would still be a poorer option. I too hate the money, the plastic fans, the Sky monopoly and the sycophantic attitude towards the so called top four, but I would much rather pit our wits against Arsenal than Brentford. There will be no major clear out if we drop, no huge cull of players.
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I want Villa to be as successful as possible at the level our history suggests we have earned a place to be at. That's the PL.
I agree with the sentiment TV, we did earn the right to be in the PL, but we haven't earned the right to stay there.
Like the club appears to be, I am now just tired and completely worn down by the permanent battle to be just about good enough to finish 4th from bottom.
I am tired of the constant hoping than maybe we'll give one of the big boys a decent game again.
I am worn down with the seemingly never ending 'records' this club keeps setting.
I think we are on course for another one today, against Arsenal.
I am tired of us making up the numbers and being a laughing stock to the media and footballing 'experts' like Savage and Jenas.
I am tired of walking away from Villa Park having been beaten again by teams like Watford and Swansea, Stoke and Crystal Palace.
I am just tired and worn down by the last 4-5 years of complete and utter awfulness.
If (when) we go down, it will be fully deserved.
But, I think going down will give the club a chance to recharge and reinvigorate.
Maybe, just maybe, we'll come back stronger, wiser and deserving of our place in PL again.
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When we were in the old division two before i actually enjoyed it even with the shit players we had but times have changed and one big change is , it didn't cost me a lot to go down then , now it will be still bloody expensive.
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If this was a simple yes/no vote, I'd vote yes.
I look at the fixtures and think that the actual matches would be great with probably more attractive away fixtures* than the PL.
i would not miss the pantomime of the premier league at all initially.
* does anyone know what sort of away allocation we could expect? theoretically we could have 4-5k at most matches.
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I want Villa to be as successful as possible at the level our history suggests we have earned a place to be at. That's the PL.
I agree with the sentiment TV, we did earn the right to be in the PL, but we haven't earned the right to stay there.
Like the club appears to be, I am now just tired and completely worn down by the permanent battle to be just about good enough to finish 4th from bottom.
I am tired of the constant hoping than maybe we'll give one of the big boys a decent game again.
I am worn down with the seemingly never ending 'records' this club keeps setting.
I think we are on course for another one today, against Arsenal.
I am tired of us making up the numbers and being a laughing stock to the media and footballing 'experts' like Savage and Jenas.
I am tired of walking away from Villa Park having been beaten again by teams like Watford and Swansea, Stoke and Crystal Palace.
I am just tired and worn down by the last 4-5 years of complete and utter awfulness.
If (when) we go down, it will be fully deserved.
But, I think going down will give the club a chance to recharge and reinvigorate.
Maybe, just maybe, we'll come back stronger, wiser and deserving of our place in PL again.
Sorry but the championship is no place for Aston Villa. I'm sick to death of the last 6 seasons as well but if you think being relegated will be the rebirth of the club and that we'll come back stronger than ever then you're gonna be sorely disappointed. Relegation would be humiliating for a club of our size and it has to be avoided at all cost. Besides even if we did go down I would trust Lerner to get us back up again. The man is a walking disaster.
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Look at Southampton. Two seasons of winning bred a winning culture that has never left the club. Some good appointments and signings too, yes, but winning games is such an important confidence boost for the psyche of a club. We've lost ours a long long time ago.
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S-H, oh, I agree it will be humiliating if we go down.
But no more humiliating than watching us floundering week after week, month after month, year after year like we are now.
But, I never said we'd come back stronger than ever.
What I believe is that it might be an opportunity to get our 'mojo' back.
As I said before, football in the championship is still football.
Life hasn't ended for Derby, Boro, et al.
I haven't given up on staying up, not by a long chalk, but I am realistic enough to recognise that we are now probably beyond salvation, so I'm just trying to look at it pragmatically.
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I think we are all agreed that the majority of our support is totally fed up of where we are now and where we have been for the last 5 years and no club has a divine right to be in a division their football does not justify, but too many people on here think going down will solve all our problems and we will rise from the ashes as the great and mighty Aston Villa once again, that could be the outcome, we could also as I have put on the Lerner thread, he stays where he is, employs even more unsuitable persons to take custody of the club in his absence and cuts his cloth accordingly, we could be following a path into pain and even more pain, the one thing being Villa fans we should be prepared for, is when we think we have reached rock bottom, TSM1, TSM2 and the chancer we find that it is not the case, I want to see this club give every last drop to stay in the division we are in now and turn it round from there, not from the likes of visits to Milton Keynes and Brentford.
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Relegation would be humiliating for a club of our size
And floundering around at the bottom of The Premier League with just six points from 15 games isn't?
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Relegation would be humiliating for a club of our size
And floundering around at the bottom of The Premier League with just six points from 15 games isn't?
Exactly.
More humiliating than getting twatted 8-0 at Chelsea?
More humiliating than being knocked out of a two-legged cup tie by 4th division opposition?
More humiliating than breaking God knows how many records for shitness?
More humiliating than being in the middle of December and still waiting for our first home victory, having gone 14 league games without a win?
Sorry, but I just don't see how it can be.
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Yes all the above is humiliating and it becomes so, because we are Premier league and therefore in a certain amount of media focus, can't see how it could become more so, what if we get twatted by Burnley 8-0, knocked out of the cup by some non-league club, setting new records for shitness in an even lower standard and no one gives a f..., as we become a total non-entity.
The grass is not always greener especially when the green keeper in charge keeps on putting bleach on the pitch rather than fertilizer.
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But, I think going down will give the club a chance to recharge and reinvigorate.
Maybe, just maybe, we'll come back stronger, wiser and deserving of our place in PL again.
I don't gree with that line of thinking at all. All going down will guarantee is less money and smaller crowds. The only thing that would possibly invigorate us is a change of ownership, and new ways of thinking. I just can't see how scrapping arund in the Championship is going to achieve that. Southampton did id despite going down, not because of it. There have been far, far more clubs who have gone down and got themselves into trouble than have 'recharged'.
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Yes all the above is humiliating and it becomes so, because we are Premier league and therefore in a certain amount of media focus, can't see how it could become more so, what if we get twatted by Burnley 8-0, knocked out of the cup by some non-league club, setting new records for shitness in an even lower standard and no one gives a f..., as we become a total non-entity.
The grass is not always greener especially when the green keeper in charge keeps on putting bleach on the pitch rather than fertilizer.
I have to say I think our green keeper is already putting plenty of "fertilizer" on our pitch ;)
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OK 44 mixed with bleach and Risso spot on, all go down all go down all go down together, absolute shite.
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Relegation would be humiliating for a club of our size
And floundering around at the bottom of The Premier League with just six points from 15 games isn't?
I'd rather cling on for dear life than drown in the shit of the championship.
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It seems that all we want from the club is meeting our mates, having a laugh, going to the pub and drinking beer. The actual football is little more than an expensive and depressing drain on our energy. £30-40 of beer money wasted. A club that has no intention of winning or competing is completely irrelevant. We might as well turn the place into a giant Wetherspoons and sack off all pretence that we're a football club once and for all.
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There have been far, far more clubs who have gone down and got themselves into trouble than have 'recharged'.
Thinking out loud here:
West Ham, Newcastle, WBA, Leicester and Sunderland (to an extent) have gone down and it not damaged them.
Wednesday, Forest, Leeds and maybe Derby as the opposite.
I class teams like Hull, Burnley, Sheff Utd, Watford as not being top-league clubs.
...and I've probably a missed a few others. Regardless, it looks to me that relegation does not appear to be a life sentence with decent management and a bit of luck.
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Relegation won't be the end of the world. I'd just rather we not have to go through it in order to rebuild the club.
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Trouble is Toronto, we can't start rebuilding the club until Randy sells us and even that looks along way off.
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Relegation won't be the end of the world. I'd just rather we not have to go through it in order to rebuild the club.
If we can't sell the club when it's in the PL, with all those riches there's absolutely no chance we'll be sold when we're in the Championship. They will be no rebuild because Randy will still be in charge and his cronies will still be running the show in the boardroom. It's like being on bloody death row for what seems like an eternity to me
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Trouble is Toronto, we can't start rebuilding the club until Randy sells us and even that looks along way off.
Nailed it
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Relegation would be humiliating for a club of our size
our club is being humiliated already.
we're a joke.
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We'll be down by March so by the time August rolls round we'll have come to terms with it.
Let's be honest could it be any worse than today? VP was soulless and lifeless. We had nearly 10,000 empty seats against Arsenal, no atmosphere and absolutely zero chance of winning the game before it even kicked off.
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There have been far, far more clubs who have gone down and got themselves into trouble than have 'recharged'.
Thinking out loud here:
West Ham, Newcastle, WBA, Leicester and Sunderland (to an extent) have gone down and it not damaged them.
Wednesday, Forest, Leeds and maybe Derby as the opposite.
I class teams like Hull, Burnley, Sheff Utd, Watford as not being top-league clubs.
...and I've probably a missed a few others. Regardless, it looks to me that relegation does not appear to be a life sentence with decent management and a bit of luck.
Leicester went down to league after their prem relegation in 2004. They need another relegation to get that bounce back.
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Relegation won't be the end of the world. I'd just rather we not have to go through it in order to rebuild the club.
If we can't sell the club when it's in the PL, with all those riches there's absolutely no chance we'll be sold when we're in the Championship. They will be no rebuild because Randy will still be in charge and his cronies will still be running the show in the boardroom. It's like being on bloody death row for what seems like an eternity to me
It is sometimes better to buy something when it is at it's lowest so as to have something to build up. It will cost less to invest in players to get us promoted than it would to keep us in the PL.
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Relegation won't be the end of the world. I'd just rather we not have to go through it in order to rebuild the club.
If we can't sell the club when it's in the PL, with all those riches there's absolutely no chance we'll be sold when we're in the Championship. They will be no rebuild because Randy will still be in charge and his cronies will still be running the show in the boardroom. It's like being on bloody death row for what seems like an eternity to me
It is sometimes better to buy something when it is at it's lowest so as to have something to build up. It will cost less to invest in players to get us promoted than it would to keep us in the PL.
Might be a flight of fantasy, but how low would we have to go for a fan takeover to become a possibility?
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Re a fan takeover - when we go down I think Lerner should name his price to sell to the fans - if not 100% but maybe the controlling share - say 51%.
Say he says 51% for £51 million then is that impossible for the fans to raise ? Eg 25,500 shares at £2,000 each ? To buy our club ?
And perhaps the option to buy him out of the remaining 49% for £98 million when we get back to the prem.
Perhaps it could be the only positive of this awful mess.
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Re a fan takeover - when we go down I think Lerner should name his price to sell to the fans - if not 100% but maybe the controlling share - say 51%.
Say he says 51% for £51 million then is that impossible for the fans to raise ? Eg 25,500 shares at £2,000 each ? To buy our club ?
And perhaps the option to buy him out of the remaining 49% for £98 million when we get back to the prem.
Perhaps it could be the only positive of this awful mess.
And if you did get that sort of money - which you never will - where does the "He should spend £x million on players" come from?
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For the last five years, give or take the odd semi final win or shock victory at Stamford Bridge, i've been a miserable football fan. Every season has got progressively worse while the league above us gets more hyped and pumped full of cash than ever. Teams that have no earthly business beating us look like Barcelona and I don't even follow us via radio because I'd rather swallow a pool of vomit than listen to the same old guff. At least one day in every seven gets ruined by the grisly business of analysing the match. I haven't submitted anything to H&V in about two years because it would just sound like a suicide note.
Now, compare that to handing out a few thrashings and a rebuild under the radar with a decent tactician, good coaching and some new faces who would kill for the chance to get promoted with us. Sounds okay to me. It's the few months thrashing and wailing first that are bothering me.
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Re a fan takeover - when we go down I think Lerner should name his price to sell to the fans - if not 100% but maybe the controlling share - say 51%.
Say he says 51% for £51 million then is that impossible for the fans to raise ? Eg 25,500 shares at £2,000 each ? To buy our club ?
And perhaps the option to buy him out of the remaining 49% for £98 million when we get back to the prem.
Perhaps it could be the only positive of this awful mess.
And if you did get that sort of money - which you never will - where does the "He should spend £x million on players" come from?
Re a fan takeover - when we go down I think Lerner should name his price to sell to the fans - if not 100% but maybe the controlling share - say 51%.
Say he says 51% for £51 million then is that impossible for the fans to raise ? Eg 25,500 shares at £2,000 each ? To buy our club ?
And perhaps the option to buy him out of the remaining 49% for £98 million when we get back to the prem.
Perhaps it could be the only positive of this awful mess.
And if you did get that sort of money - which you never will - where does the "He should spend £x million on players" come from?
Generally speaking Dave or anyone else who knows, how do fan takeovers worK? I seem to remember reading something about Swansea and their fans buying a club for £1. Is it then a case of running the club by it's means or are you still relying on a couple of welathy investors throwing money at it? How does it work in Germany, as there are some pretty big clubs over there who have that set up?
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I'm completely torn on this one - do I want Villa to drop down to the Championship, lose any half decent players we have left and play the likes of Rotherham and Brentford each week? No
On the other hand do I want to continue to see us act as cannon fodder for the likes of Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man U every season, constantly loiter round the bottom six and then hope to stay up by virtue of being marginally less shit than three other teams? No
I'm resigned to relegation and not looking forward to it one jot but surely it can't get any worse?
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I'm completely torn on this one - do I want Villa to drop down to the Championship, lose any half decent players we have left and play the likes of Rotherham and Brentford each week? No
On the other hand do I want to continue to see us act as cannon fodder for the likes of Man City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man U every season, constantly loiter round the bottom six and then hope to stay up by virtue of being marginally less shit than three other teams? No
I'm resigned to relegation and not looking forward to it one jot but surely it can't get any worse?
I wouldn't put it past the people we have running things.
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For the last five years, give or take the odd semi final win or shock victory at Stamford Bridge, i've been a miserable football fan. Every season has got progressively worse while the league above us gets more hyped and pumped full of cash than ever.
That's a good point.
A big part of the argument for why we must spend in January to avoid getting relegated is the further increase in Premier League money from next year. Well the amount of cash has increased rapidly over the past five years and things at the Villa have got worse, not better so is this really an argument?
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For the last five years, give or take the odd semi final win or shock victory at Stamford Bridge, i've been a miserable football fan. Every season has got progressively worse while the league above us gets more hyped and pumped full of cash than ever.
That's a good point.
A big part of the argument for why we must spend in January to avoid getting relegated is the further increase in Premier League money from next year. Well the amount of cash has increased rapidly over the past five years and things at the Villa have got worse, not better so is this really an argument?
Yes it is. Imagine how even more shit we'll be with less money.
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It seems as if every season is the "season we can't afford to go down" because of some TV deal or other. We'll fall further behind and never get the opportunity to compete again...some of the sides that have spent years in the Championship have come up and obliterated that theory. At the end of the day, it's how you're run, not how much you have to spend. Didn't Klopp's Dortmund side cost about seven million quid or something equally ridiculous?
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Fox made a point about Klopp yesterday. People asked him what we had to spend in January. They didn't rule our spending. But essentially suggested Garde was minded the sane as Klopp.
Can't we actually coach the players to be better before we worry about spending money?
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Fox made a point about Klopp yesterday. People asked him what we had to spend in January. They didn't rule our spending. But essentially suggested Garde was minded the sane as Klopp.
Can't we actually coach the players to be better before we worry about spending money?
How can anyone coach Gestede to be able to move quicker than a tugboat?
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It couldn't be much less fun
Unless we do a city and bomb out the bottom. Which isn't impossible
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Generally speaking Dave or anyone else who knows, how do fan takeovers worK? I seem to remember reading something about Swansea and their fans buying a club for £1. Is it then a case of running the club by it's means or are you still relying on a couple of welathy investors throwing money at it? How does it work in Germany, as there are some pretty big clubs over there who have that set up?
Swansea were bought by a consortium of eight individuals and their Supporters Trust, who each contributed £50,000. The Trust later raised their investment to £200,000, in return for a 21% stake which gives them two directors. I don't know how much the others have invested/loaned since then.
This explains the German model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%2B1_rule
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Fox made a point about Klopp yesterday. People asked him what we had to spend in January. They didn't rule our spending. But essentially suggested Garde was minded the sane as Klopp.
Can't we actually coach the players to be better before we worry about spending money?
How can anyone coach Gestede to be able to move quicker than a tugboat?
My uncle Seamus could teach him very quickly, absolutely guaranteed.
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Not up to date as they seem a bit slow updating info, but gives an idea of away support so far this season down there.
(http://the72.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/attendance-nov-8.png)
Just seen this. The North-South divide sticks out, insomuch as fans from either side don't seem to like to cross it! Like us, everyone likes a good day out at Fulham, bar Blackburn. QPR, excellent up as far Watford Gap. What are they all scared of?
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Fox made a point about Klopp yesterday. People asked him what we had to spend in January. They didn't rule our spending. But essentially suggested Garde was minded the sane as Klopp.
Can't we actually coach the players to be better before we worry about spending money?
That's a lovely idea, and is fine when you have the luxury of time. However, we need a quick bounce in January, starting with a goalscorer.
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Fox made a point about Klopp yesterday. People asked him what we had to spend in January. They didn't rule our spending. But essentially suggested Garde was minded the sane as Klopp.
Can't we actually coach the players to be better before we worry about spending money?
Further proof to me that Garde is here for the long haul. So much will now depend on whether he can motivate the players once we are down and start again. We started off slowly last time around, not winning until our 5th match I think...I do worry that we will really have to hit the ground running this time around to arrest the losing mentality that is part of the wallpaper at the moment.
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There is no guarantee whatsoever that we will come back up so the easy answer is no.
It has become harder for relegated teams no matter what the division to come straight back up. One of the biggest issues is how much money do you throw at it; the likes of Leeds, Nottingham Forest have struggled in this regard on the other hand teams like Hull appear to be in touching distance of promotion so it is a hit and miss exercise.
What if, we don't come back first time round? Attendances will shrink, sponsorship will fall off, continued loss of big TV revenue and having to watch Dalglish's daughter spouting rubbish every week.
This leads onto the next issue - Are we already down. A proper evaluation by the leading people in the club needs to take place and a definite plan put in place now.
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There is no guarantee whatsoever that we will come back up so the easy answer is no.
It has become harder for relegated teams no matter what the division to come straight back up. One of the biggest issues is how much money do you throw at it; the likes of Leeds, Nottingham Forest have struggled in this regard on the other hand teams like Hull appear to be in touching distance of promotion so it is a hit and miss exercise.
What if, we don't come back first time round? Attendances will shrink, sponsorship will fall off, continued loss of big TV revenue and having to watch Dalglish's daughter spouting rubbish every week.
This leads onto the next issue - Are we already down. A proper evaluation by the leading people in the club needs to take place and a definite plan put in place now.
Agree with all of that
For me is coming back up during 2/3 seasons you are getting parachute money. If you don't then you're fucked.
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I dont see how the championship could be any more humilliating than what we have endured for 4-5 years. Its been pathetic. Did anyone watch the Leciester-Chelsea game last night? Chelsea taunting the leicester fans with "Aston Villa, Theyve won more than you".
We're a f**king laughing stock and there is no pride left in the pitch, in the boardroom or on the stands. dress it up as gallows humour but our fans are even at it (although I cant criticise too much as at least they are still turning up, many including myself have now had enough it would seem)
I would happily see half of our players leave along with the board of directors and the owner. Bring on the championship, I just wish I didnt have to watch us die slowly for the next 5months, like a bull at the end of a bull fight
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I dont see how the championship could be any more humilliating than what we have endured for 4-5 years. Its been pathetic. Did anyone watch the Leciester-Chelsea game last night? Chelsea taunting the leicester fans with "Aston Villa, Theyve won more than you".
We're a f**king laughing stock and there is no pride left in the pitch, in the boardroom or on the stands. dress it up as gallows humour but our fans are even at it (although I cant criticise too much as at least they are still turning up, many including myself have now had enough it would seem)
I would happily see half of our players leave along with the board of directors and the owner. Bring on the championship, I just wish I didnt have to watch us die slowly for the next 5months, like a bull at the end of a bull fight
It's embarrassing alright, but being in the championship would be humiliating. We have to stay in this league.
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This thing about the bottom team getting £100m is a bit irrelevant isn't it?
It wont be spent on comfy chairs and golden Carlsberg goblets for fans, it will just be spent on doubling the wages of the same sort of shysters who have played for us for the last five years.
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We've become a byword for meek and miserable failure, but I don't see that changing unless there are major changes in the structures of club management. A new, strong, knowledgeable chairman - finally - might make a difference. But the most fundamental change we have to make is in the attitude of the club.
We simply cannot go on with the attitude that it's ok to fail here. The comfort, complacency, apathy and arrogance around that simple idea - that failure will be tolerated, that things will somehow be ok in pursuit of the bare minimum - is what's killing our club. Hopefully it isn't too late to turn it around, but I really do worry with Lerner's passive leadership.
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One thing we cannot afford to do is feel sorry for ourselves and drift towards the end of the season. If we do, we will struggle in the Championship.
There is a common expression in my industry, 'Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance ' Preparation starts now.
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Is that the famous '6 P's' expression ? :-)
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I got the impression Sunday they were readying for it without quite being ready to throw the towel in.
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I have changed my mind. Yeah more fun to go down. We are going down anyway so we may as well try and enjoy it.
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Bit of a moot point as we are going down whether fun or not and before I get slaughtered for defeatism, we have no chance of getting 30 points from next 22 games, theres no fight in the majority of players.
I know there is no guarantee, but if we even got 60-70 points next year in a lower league and a bit of bottle, it would be better than last five years of utter garbage.
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Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere, but, far from thinking we'll bounce straight back up, Lord McGrath (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231) thinks we'll go straight through the Championship into League 1. Sad times
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Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere, but, far from thinking we'll bounce straight back up, Lord McGrath (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231) thinks we'll go straight through the Championship into League 1. Sad times
I think there is a fair chance he could be right.
There are plenty of ‘big clubs’ who have done the same, and while I would hope our financial position would be less precarious than the likes of Leeds, I don’t buy into the our lads will piss the championship view point.
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Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere, but, far from thinking we'll bounce straight back up, Lord McGrath (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231) thinks we'll go straight through the Championship into League 1. Sad times
I think there is a fair chance he could be right.
There are plenty of ‘big clubs’ who have done the same, and while I would hope our financial position would be less precarious than the likes of Leeds, I don’t buy into the our lads will piss the championship view point.
You can add Bolton to that also. How can we be sure with the current record of mismanagement endemic in the club we would be any different?
And with our recent record against 'lower league' sides in the cup competitions , I certainly have no confidence we would be in for an instant return.
The Championship is a slog - with games played at all times on any given day during the week. I am sure that won't sit well with our prima donnas.
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And with our recent record against 'lower league' sides in the cup competitions , I certainly have no confidence we would be in for an instant return.
What, three wins in our last three matches?
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And with our recent record against 'lower league' sides in the cup competitions , I certainly have no confidence we would be in for an instant return.
What, three wins in our last three matches?
Surely you're not going to argue that we have a good recent record against lower league sides in the cups? Scraping past Blues and Blackpool 1-0 at home (can't remember who the third is) is hardly something to be proud of.
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And with our recent record against 'lower league' sides in the cup competitions , I certainly have no confidence we would be in for an instant return.
What, three wins in our last three matches?
4 I think, Blackpool, Bournemouth, Notts Co, sha.
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And with our recent record against 'lower league' sides in the cup competitions , I certainly have no confidence we would be in for an instant return.
What, three wins in our last three matches?
4 I think, Blackpool, Bournemouth, Notts Co, sha.
So:
Blackpool (heading for relegation) : 1-0 at home
Bournemouth reserves : 2-1 at home
Notts Co (division 4 side) : 5-3 AET but behind on 3 separate occasions
Blues (crap division 2 side) : 1-0 at home
If anyone thinks that sort of record is indicative of an easy season in the Championship you're on a wind up!
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We must be the only club where even winning games is spun into a negative.
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And with our recent record against 'lower league' sides in the cup competitions , I certainly have no confidence we would be in for an instant return.
What, three wins in our last three matches?
Surely you're not going to argue that we have a good recent record against lower league sides in the cups? Scraping past Blues and Blackpool 1-0 at home (can't remember who the third is) is hardly something to be proud of.
I didn't say it was something to be proud of. But nor is the fact that when we play Championship sides, we normally win evidence that we're going to be rubbish in the Championship. Which again, also isn't something to be proud of.
If you want to go into our recent record, let's call Houllier and after as 'recent'. Going back into the O'Neill years only makes the figures more favourable with the cup runs in his final season.
By my reckoning, we've played 17 matches against lower league teams in both cup competitions, won 13 and lost 4.
I'm not going to do that for a load of other teams, but do you reckon the above is that much worse than it would be for most other sides?
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Its the sort of record that would see us blitz the second division.
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Even using the defeats as a sign we'd struggle is pretty pointless. The side that lost 3-1 to Bradford for example, of the 18 man squad that night there'd be a maximum of 5 of them with us next season.
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Anyone using the cup games as an indication of how we will do in the champo is way off the mark. Cup games are a one off where the lower league team has absolutely nothing to lose. the majority of those games have been during the worst period in our history with tonkings every other week and confidence low.
Ive said before, ill say again...our squad will stay largely intact and we will win way more than we lose. we will be back up within two seasons.
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You really think the absentee Landlord, the Marketeer and the bloke with the XBox can get us out of this mess?
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I hope you are right , but I really think if this gutless bunch of tossers stays largely intact next season then God help us.
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I wouldn't worry about this, FFD.
it looks like M. Garde has already started identifying the fraudsters in the squad and refuses to play them.
More power to his arm!
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Having witnessed various relegations since 1959, the one thing I can say ,you very quickly get used to the new standard of football. I think it's very possible we won't bounce back straight away, that doesn't mean we slide straight into division 1, but build a strong team from mid table. I will tell you ,my guilty pleasure at the moment is dreaming of getting 11 wins from our remaining fixtures ,come on make it worthwhile being gutted when we go down UTV
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11 wins should be enough to secure our safety. It would also be a miracle of epic proportions.
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Legion I know I shouldn't can't help myself
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I actually convince myself that it would be fun in the championship and we would do well. I watched the Blues last night and the top 2 currently playing each other.
The difference in quality to the premiership is alarmingly obvious.
So with that in mind we have to stay up
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Ideally we will climb out of the bottom three. But the one consolation if we do go down is (hopefully) having a break from being called 'bottom of the table Aston Villa' by every TV station*, radio station and newspaper.
*Except UK Gold where we are 'Champions Of Europe Aston Villa.'
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Whenever I think of our impending/inevitable relegation I cannot help but think of the scene in Alien when the creatures blood gets spilt and burns straight through the floor onto the next, and the next, I really do think we are in freefall as a club.
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The Xenomomorph is an apex predator. That's exactly what we should be.
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How are we in free fall? The owner is not letting us go into financial ruin when we drop so really it is down to a competent manager putting a side together who are well drilled and have a bit of pace and a few hard men. It will get you up. Then it's down to getting the right players to kick on using the confidence.
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How are we in free fall? The owner is not letting us go into financial ruin when we drop so really it is down to a competent manager putting a side together who are well drilled and have a bit of pace and a few hard men. It will get you up. Then it's down to getting the right players to kick on using the confidence.
How are we not more like, we have no quality players to sell in order to prepare the side for an entirely different league, a manager who has no experience in this country other than the few games he has managed us so far, a chairman who has lost interest and wants to sell to just about anybody who will buy, a much-vaunted youth system that wasnt all it was cracked up to be, and we are going (almost inevitably) into a highly competitive league where we will be the number one scalp for our name alone. you have said yourself "it is down to a competent manager and a few hardmen" well the Jurys out on Garde and we will need to completely re-build the side with not a lot of cash - whichever way you look at it we`re vulnerable.
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At the start of the season with all of the optimism of a new campaign and new players, many of whom we thought were really talented, would anyone have taken Leicester's squad over ours? I doubt many would have but it isn't just ability, it is a manager who can set up a side to win and then build on the confidence that success brings. Leicester are so very confident right now that they would fancy themselves against Barcelona. Our players aren't bad, but they don't believe they are good right now. Maybe if we go down and they get a solid pre season they can start to believe in themselves again. Winning isn't something we have done very often in the past 5 years and it shows all across the club.
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We have a losing culture quite honestly and the only way that'll change is by turning around results over a sustained period. That's just not going to happen in the PL, we are no where near good enough but IF we go down and are able to come straight back up (I know, I know) then we've stopped that losing culture and it allows us a fresh start.
Of course it might also go the other way but if/when we get relegated I have to look at he potential positives of us winning games again and being competitive. 10 points adrift before New Years indicates that we're just not right now.
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After this evening's game - No
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Good reasons why it would better in the championship.
No Premiership types - they will go and support another team
More 3 PM kick offs
More local games
More standing
Blokes only at away games.
Old fixtures returning i.e Cov Blues Forest
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And we could drop another division
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And we could drop another division
Indeed. We're so very poor that a straight through relegation wouldn't be a huge shock.
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And we could drop another division
Indeed. We're so very poor that a straight through relegation wouldn't be a huge shock.
I'm not the only one thinking it then.
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Definitely not with the present squad.
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Dont bank on more 3pm kick offs. We'll be on TV all the time.
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Just watched a repeat of Football League tonight. We are bound to be first on every week. Joy.
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Dont bank on more 3pm kick offs. We'll be on TV all the time.
We could always ban the cameras like Leeds have.
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And we could drop another division
Indeed. We're so very poor that a straight through relegation wouldn't be a huge shock.
We might even get relegated all the way to whatever they call the Conference now. Or maybe even lower. Isthmian League here we come.
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And we could drop another division
Indeed. We're so very poor that a straight through relegation wouldn't be a huge shock.
We might even get relegated all the way to whatever they call the Conference now. Or maybe even lower. Isthmian League here we come.
We'd be in the Northern Premier. Or Southern, depending on where the line is drawn for 2021-22.
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We'll be singing "shit on the Denso" before you know it.
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And we could drop another division
Indeed. We're so very poor that a straight through relegation wouldn't be a huge shock.
We might even get relegated all the way to whatever they call the Conference now. Or maybe even lower. Isthmian League here we come.
We'd be in the Northern Premier. Or Southern, depending on where the line is drawn for 2021-22.
Get ready for either Marine or Billericay and Havant and Waterlooville, Dave.
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And we could drop another division
Indeed. We're so very poor that a straight through relegation wouldn't be a huge shock.
We might even get relegated all the way to whatever they call the Conference now. Or maybe even lower. Isthmian League here we come.
We'd be in the Northern Premier. Or Southern, depending on where the line is drawn for 2021-22.
And I'd still support us, as I suspect you would and many other posters on here. To trot out the old cliche, it's in the blood.
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Are Moor Green still around and if so where do we need to be to have a proper Birmingham derby?
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I'm looking forward to the derby games we'll be having with Wednesbury Strollers in 10 years time.
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Are Moor Green still around and if so where do we need to be to have a proper Birmingham derby?
No, but Solihull Moors are
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And I'd still support us, as I suspect you would and many other posters on here. To trot out the old cliche, it's in the blood.
Always the Colours, the Club, the History. No one can take that away from us.
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To be honest I fail to see how it could be any worse than where we are now.
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You love your kids when they are bad as much as you love them when your good.
It's the same with your football club
And boy are we bad at the moment
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For some teams coming to villa park it will be like playing in the champions league final in real Madrid. Definitely the likes of wasall and burton.most clubs will fill the away end at villa park as it will be their biggest day of the season, we too will fill away ends as we will go to grounds that some villa have not been to for years or never been too. we have a traditional 'supporter revival' when we go down. We had one when we was inthe 3rd division. There was one in 87. Old school will return.
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You love your kids when they are bad as much as you love them when your good.
It's the same with your football club
And boy are we bad at the moment
But it'll be be like the kid who was getting straight As and then got addicted to crack and threw his potential away.
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The word if needs to be taken out of the topic thread. Another point it will be harder to get a ticket for forest away than it was for the facup semi Final against Liverpool.
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For some teams coming to villa park it will be like playing in the champions league final in real Madrid. Definitely the likes of wasall and burton.most clubs will fill the away end at villa park as it will be their biggest day of the season, we too will fill away ends as we will go to grounds that some villa have not been to for years or never been too. we have a traditional 'supporter revival' when we go down. We had one when we was inthe 3rd division. There was one in 87. Old school will return.
About the only bit I am looking forward to if I'm honest. I loved all of that in 87, some of the best away days of my life - Bradford, Barnsley, Swindon, Sheffield United...
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Good reasons why it would better in the championship.
No Premiership types - they will go and support another team
More 3 PM kick offs
More local games
More standing
Blokes only at away games.
Old fixtures returning i.e Cov Blues Forest
Blokes only? What the bloody hell are you on about?
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No more half and halfers.
No more tourists getting in the fucking way because they can't find their way to the 'consession stands'.
Does the ref collect the ball as he strolls onto the pitch in championship?
Do they have a championship anthem to line up to?
So many new things to learn.
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Good reasons why it would better in the championship.
No Premiership types - they will go and support another team
More 3 PM kick offs
More local games
More standing
Blokes only at away games.
Old fixtures returning i.e Cov Blues Forest
:o
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Good reasons why it would better in the championship.
No Premiership types - they will go and support another team
More 3 PM kick offs
More local games
More standing
Blokes only at away games.
Old fixtures returning i.e Cov Blues Forest
Blokes only? What the bloody hell are you on about?
We will never know.
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Blokes only ? Is that a good thing ? Love to here your explanation Jack.Quite the oddest thing Ive read on here.
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Me too!!
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Jane,always found that blokes who have a problem with women are the blokes who are always rejected by women,Its quite sad really.
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Ahhh yes, that makes sense now.
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In response to those thinking we'll have loads of 3pm kick offs, I'm sorry to say that Forest, Derby and Leeds have been shown live on Sky 9 times each during the first half of this season.
Sky are showing more live Football League games than ever as as we'd be the big fish, we'd better get used to Saturday and Sunday lunchtimes, Friday evenings etc.
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Having given up my season ticket last season, I would consider getting a new one if we went down. Getting to see teams I've never seen us play before and getting to go to grounds I've never been to would also be enjoyable.
Not that I want us to go down, but you can't deny some alternate enjoyment from it.
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If going down means Randy gives up cuts his loss's sells for a knock down price I'll take it , and maybe in 2 ,3 years we will be in the position Southampton/Leicester/Watford are now ..
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In response to those thinking we'll have loads of 3pm kick offs, I'm sorry to say that Forest, Derby and Leeds have been shown live on Sky 9 times each during the first half of this season.
Sky are showing more live Football League games than ever as as we'd be the big fish, we'd better get used to Saturday and Sunday lunchtimes, Friday evenings etc.
add to that tue and wed nights plus we wont be getting massive allocations, leeds have the highest away average with approx 2.8k
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Biggest draw for me is Forest away,hope its on a nice sunny Saturday in August.That said being the Midlands classic itll probaly be on a Monday night or Sunday at 12 noon.Just hope its all blokes and no damn birds turn up.
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We stand as much chance staying up as. Suicidal bingie jumper with a Bowie knife.
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If the seemingly inevitable does happen, would the Club consider closing the Trinity Upper?
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If the seemingly inevitable does happen, would the Club consider closing the Trinity Upper?
I doubt they'll stop selling the most expensive seats. We'll still be pulling in 30K+ a lot of the time.
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Home wins?
Maybe not
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Jane,always found that blokes who have a problem with women are the blokes who are always rejected by women,Its quite sad really.
That's a very generalised statement to make. I am sure this is not universal and Jack may well have his reasons even if not appropriate.
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Blokes only at away games.
Probably quare
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k86qM4t2fX8/maxresdefault.jpg)
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If the seemingly inevitable does happen, would the Club consider closing the Trinity Upper?
I doubt they'll stop selling the most expensive seats. We'll still be pulling in 30K+ a lot of the time.
I'm going to be quite lonely much of the time, aren't I?
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If the seemingly inevitable does happen, would the Club consider closing the Trinity Upper?
I doubt they'll stop selling the most expensive seats. We'll still be pulling in 30K+ a lot of the time.
not sure about that, rotherham or brentford on a tues night?
having said that i have never understood why for some of the less attractive games the club are happy to have 10k empty seats
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We'll be around the 30K mark most weeks, more if we're near the top.
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Biggest draw for me is Forest away,hope its on a nice sunny Saturday in August.That said being the Midlands classic itll probaly be on a Monday night or Sunday at 12 noon.Just hope its all blokes and no damn birds turn up.
Dont worry I have offered to take all the birds out while you chaps watch the footie :)
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We'll be around the 30K mark most weeks, more if we're near the top.
Yes. We'll still be the best supported club in the midlands.
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Jane,always found that blokes who have a problem with women are the blokes who are always rejected by women,Its quite sad really.
That's a very generalised statement to make. I am sure this is not universal and Jack may well have his reasons even if not appropriate.
True,thats why I said Ive always found,ie my experience,not a statement of fact.Sorry if Ive overreacted,but sexism really gets my goat.I thought that sort of talk went away in the 70s.
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Jane,always found that blokes who have a problem with women are the blokes who are always rejected by women,Its quite sad really.
That's a very generalised statement to make. I am sure this is not universal and Jack may well have his reasons even if not appropriate.
To be fair unless Jack has met every single woman in the world and they've all been in the away end for a Villa game his statement is based on a pretty big generalisation.
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Jane,always found that blokes who have a problem with women are the blokes who are always rejected by women,Its quite sad really.
That's a very generalised statement to make. I am sure this is not universal and Jack may well have his reasons even if not appropriate.
To be fair unless Jack has met every single woman in the world and they've all been in the away end for a Villa game his statement is based on a pretty big generalisation.
Jack has previous for similar nonsense under other usernames and will not be joining us again in this guise.
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Its fun if you're a tourist just passing through for a season. If you have to live there then the novelty wears off.
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Biggest draw for me is Forest away,hope its on a nice sunny Saturday in August.That said being the Midlands classic itll probaly be on a Monday night or Sunday at 12 noon.Just hope its all blokes and no damn birds turn up.
Dont worry I have offered to take all the birds out while you chaps watch the footie :)
Is that taking all the birds out of the freezer?
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Biggest draw for me is Forest away,hope its on a nice sunny Saturday in August.That said being the Midlands classic itll probaly be on a Monday night or Sunday at 12 noon.Just hope its all blokes and no damn birds turn up.
Dont worry I have offered to take all the birds out while you chaps watch the footie :)
Is that taking all the birds out of the freezer?
In a manner of speaking yes ;)
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The away games would be more attractive as days out. As an away scheme member there are a good number of away fixtures in the 19 that are a bit meh.
The Manchester games, Arsenal, Chelsea etc. Taking 5000 to Wednesday, Fulham and Forrest would, league notwithstanding, be a lot more enjoyable than paying forty quid to travel to Carrow Road.
In that regard I think we will see a lot more aggro of the kind we have seen at Newcastle in recent years or perhaps best typified by Millwall on Friday night where local simpletons wanted to have a pop at the big club, as the Met put it.
I think we will go straight back up. The quality of our squad now is mils better than Boros or Derby's. I don't buy the garbage that we will drop through the leagues when we will be as rich as croesus to 20 odd of the other sides. So with that in mind, I think we would be bladdering tin pot outfits, with bigood away support revelling in a bit of the "we will do what we want attitude", which will create friction.
At the end of the day, it is what it is. The beer will still be wet I suppose.
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not sure about 5k for weds and forest, leeds have the highest away following by far and had 2.5k at wednesday and 1.9k at forest.
we could theoretically take 5k but what we get allocated is another question
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not sure about 5k for weds and forest, leeds have the highest away following by far and had 2.5k at wednesday and 1.9k at forest.
we could theoretically take 5k but what we get allocated is another question
You may get more @ Blackburn and MK Dons but on average away allocations will be about 2.500
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You get as much as you want at Wednesday behind the goal.
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prices are no picnic either and we will pay top dollar
Tickets at some Championship clubs have been described as “ridiculously expensive” after a Guardian survey found adult prices this season will regularly surpass £35, with Sheffield Wednesday charging £52 for certain games.
According to the study, Wednesday’s category A* matches in the south stand at Hillsborough are the most expensive seats available, excluding premium hospitality sections across the league. Eighteen of the 24 clubs in the division have priced their dearest tickets at £35 or more. Five of those clubs – Brighton, Fulham, Ipswich, Leeds and Wednesday – sell their most expensive tickets at £40 or more.
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Nothing we're not used to.
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Can't wait to see how much "fun" it is on a January Tuesday night at Huddersfield.
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Can't wait to see how much "fun" it is on a January Tuesday night at Huddersfield.
Hopefully more fun than losing 2-0 to the likes of Norwich on a Monday afternoon
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When was the last time we played Walsall in the league?
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Have we ever beaten Walsall in a league match?
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Have we ever beaten Walsall in a league match?
No. P4, D3, L1. All in the third division. We owe the bastards.....
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I suppose it might be nice to catch up with that nice Mr. Lambert at Blackburn. Just to tell him how much we appreciated his tenure as Manager.
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Have we ever beaten Walsall in a league match?
No. P4, D3, L1. All in the third division. We owe the bastards.....
Don't get me started now. My first ever away game was at Fellows Park and they murdered us 3-0. IIRC there were about 46k there for one of the derbies against them - I think the 0-0.
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When was the last time we played Walsall in the league?
1972 season.
Same allocation as pre season game, behind the goal and all of the touchline stand so around 3k.
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It will most certainly be more fun for that section of our fans which enjoys a bit of a punch up.
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When was the last time we played Walsall in the league?
1972 season.
Same allocation as pre season game, behind the goal and all of the touchline stand so around 3k.
I reckon where we played away in1970-71 we must have had 75% of the 20,000 crowd.
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Have we ever beaten Walsall in a league match?
No. P4, D3, L1. All in the third division. We owe the bastards.....
Don't get me started now. My first ever away game was at Fellows Park and they murdered us 3-0. IIRC there were about 46k there for one of the derbies against them - I think the 0-0.
I remember the 0-0 well. It was the quietest I've ever known Villa Park.
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I was at the game at Fellows Park when we lost. I remember seeing a group of Walsall supporters that were skinheads, wearing checked shirts, jeans with braces and Doc Martins. They were girls - classy women in Walsall!
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Good reasons why it would better in the championship.
No Premiership types - they will go and support another team
More 3 PM kick offs
More local games
More standing
Blokes only at away games.
Old fixtures returning i.e Cov Blues Forest
Blokes only? What the bloody hell are you on about?
He's only made a comment, Not a reason for an uproar. I just raised an eyebrow when I read it,and moved on. Sexism will always exist,maybe his comment was tongue in cheek? Either way,I dont think he deserves a ban.
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Or maybe he was banned because he's a previously banned poster signing up using another username.
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Can't wait to see how much "fun" it is on a January Tuesday night at Huddersfield.
Hopefully more fun than losing 2-0 to the likes of Norwich on a Monday afternoon
Granted, but we`ll probably lose to Huddersfield as well.
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I thought the 'blokes only' comment was meant in a no kids kind of way instead of a sexist way, not that it makes any more sense.
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It was posted by a pillock who had previously been banned for being a pillock.
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I doubt that blokes only comment was serious.
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Or maybe he was banned because he's a previously banned poster signing up using another username.
Is the correct answer.
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You get as much as you want at Wednesday behind the goal.
I think that is the case at a lot of those grounds. Watching the highlight show on Channel 5, there seems to be large areas behind one goal at a lot of Championship clubs which are given to away fans and not filled.
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I want to be able to open my phone app and see Villa 3 - someone else (anyone else) 0 on a regular basis; I don't care what division it's in.
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Sadly, I have to report that today I have tuned my Skybox to include channel 5. :'(
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I doubt that blokes only comment was serious.
The same poster in a former life attempted to organise standing areas for the cup final and subsequently apportioned some of the blame for the result on everyone's failure to comply. He meant it.
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which grounds are you lot looking forward to going to?
brentford, huddersfield and brighton (if they're not promoted) for me.
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Still no.
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Good reasons why it would better in the championship.
No Premiership types - they will go and support another team
More 3 PM kick offs
More local games
More standing
Blokes only at away games.
Old fixtures returning i.e Cov Blues Forest
Blokes only? What the bloody hell are you on about?
I do believe that championship teams also have these new fangled lady supporters now.
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I'd quite like to see more ladies at the match. Lovely creatures, very gentle.
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not 'arf Nicey
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And I bet they've all got smashing blouses on.
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And I bet they've all got smashing blouses on.
...underneath their aprons
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And I bet they've all got smashing blouses on.
You are the Duke of Kidderminster and I claim my prize.
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No room for premiership types they wont have the stomach for Division two ( is still call it Division two as that's what it was called before the Premiership. No half n half scarves, no jester hats , and looking at some the away followings no replica t shirts its a real throw back. Premiership types have already most likely found an alternative, another team or another hobby.
I would rather stand in Division Two and win, than sit down in the Premiership and win.
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Do you know which section at Wembley will be for standing if we reach the play-off final?
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old songs will return like ' Birmingham Birmingham can you hear us ion the box'
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Yoo-Hoo! Back again?
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old songs will return like ' Birmingham Birmingham can you hear us ion the box'
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old songs will return like ' Birmingham Birmingham can you hear us ion the box'
Yes follow previous patterns from recent visits , although pre arranged standing is not allowed but use of common sense is. if its villa - blues in the play off final there will be high numbers standing
Hello again.
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Do you know which section at Wembley will be for standing if we reach the play-off final?
Yes follow previous patterns from recent visits , although pre arranged standing is not allowed but use of common sense is. if its villa - blues in the play off final there will be high numbers standing
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Where would you like everyone to stand?
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He'll have to try and make yet another account to reply.
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Joined and banned within 19 minutes is good going.
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What did he do wrong? Or can banned folk not rejoin?
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What did he do wrong? Or can banned folk not rejoin?
They can rejoin if they apologise and promise not to do it again. Not if they keep doing the same thing time after time under a different name each time.
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He's not the Messiah, he's a very, very naughty boy!
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Time for a musical interlude I reckon, while matey boy works out to use a proxy.
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Do you know which section at Wembley will be for standing if we reach the play-off final?
I have no desire to support Aston Villa from the 'middle class communist section' which is where many of the people on here would be grouped.
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It's Graydon, not Gradon.
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Nobody middle class on here, we're all part of the international proletariat, comrade.
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Pic of the Great Man on wiki has him parting his hair on the left.
I think that clinches it for Them On Here.
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Banned after 8 minutes this time. You'd think he'd get the hint after being banned so often.
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Banned after 8 minutes this time. You'd think he'd get the hint after being banned so often.
That's just typical middle class communist censorship. Or something.
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which grounds are you lot looking forward to going to?
brentford, huddersfield and brighton (if they're not promoted) for me.
Those three and PNE for me
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Banned after 8 minutes this time. You'd think he'd get the hint after being banned so often.
Maybe he's related to a sometime poster from Down Under? The same pathological traits.
Ha, autocorrect has a sense of humour. It tried to correct pathological to pathetic.
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Nobody middle class on here, we're all part of the international proletariat, comrade.
Fuck off, you Tipton peasant.
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Nobody middle class on here, we're all part of the international proletariat, comrade.
Fuck off, you Tipton peasant.
Well, that's answered my dilemma 'Who's first against the wall come the revolution?'
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Children of the revolution ?
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Children of the revolution ?
Depends on the month.....
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Nobody middle class on here, we're all part of the international proletariat, comrade.
Fuck off, you Tipton peasant.
Well, that's answered my dilemma 'Who's first against the wall come the revolution?'
Heinz Dieter Griffin will never surrender to the Commie non people.
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Hopefully it will be more fun.
Regardless, i'll be going to a lot of away games next season.
It might be like the 3rd Division days ?
More away fans than home fans. :)
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I've said before how I absolutely fucking hate us not being in the top flight, but it's hard to see how it's going to be less fun than this season has been.
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Ask me again in twelve months.
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The going down bit isn't fun, the coming back up hopefully is.
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If we are in and around the top 6 next season it will be fun. Mid-table mediocrity as the likes of Rotherham roll into town on a Tuesday night (cliché), or worse still a relegation battle, would be more torture.
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Not looking forward to round one of the league cup, when was the last time we played in round one?
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Are the regulations on squad size, home grown players, home nation players and non-EU players different in the Football League from the Prem?
Would we possibly have to cut some of our non-English players loose to free up squad slots for home grown players etc?
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If we are in and around the top 6 next season it will be fun. Mid-table mediocrity as the likes of Rotherham roll into town on a Tuesday night (cliché), or worse still a relegation battle, would be more torture.
Top 6 fun? It'll be a friggin nightmare. Every one of us will be on tenterhooks, week in and week out. I'm hoping this will be our lot at the very least.
It'll only be fun if we're romping it away in top spot. Not going to happen.
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Average away support for each club in Division 2 this season.
#1 Leeds United - 2,807
#2 Middlesbrough - 2,515
#3 Sheffield Wednesday - 2,510
#4 Derby - 2,125
#5 Burnley - 1,911
#6 Birmingham City - 1,779
#7 Brighton - 1,658
#8 Preston - 1,506
#9 Wolves - 1,470
#10 Forest - 1,443
#11 Hull - 1,393
#12 Ipswich 1,383
#13 Bristol City - 1,263
#14 QPR - 1,204
#15 Huddersfield - 1,128
#16 Blackburn - 1,106
#17 Brentford - 1,103
#18 Rotherham - 1,041
#19 Reading - 1,040
#20 Fulham - 988
#21 Bolton - 911
#22 Cardiff - 748
#23 Charlton - 637
#24 MK Dons - 636
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which grounds are you lot looking forward to going to?
brentford, huddersfield and brighton (if they're not promoted) for me.
Those three and PNE for me
went to Brentford once to watch them play Tranmere many, many moons ago. I was staying at a mate's place in Chiswick for a few months and his old man was a Tranmere supporter. Shit ground as I recall, but lots of good pubs in that area of West London.
Also the match was the most exciting 0-0 I've ever seen. Rovers had about 5,000 shots on target, but bizarrely never managed to find the net from any of them. Funny how that game sticks in the memory when so many Villa games are now just a blur, or completely forgotten.
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The going down bit isn't fun, the coming back up hopefully is.
Then you're not doing it right, (winky thing).
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It just gets worse! With 2-3 northern clubs moving into the Prem, my hoped-for away tour of Yorks and Lancs will be somewhat curtailed, sadly.
I'm looking forward to the temporary visit to the second tier but will lose my patience if we fail to play well and do well.
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It just gets worse! With 2-3 northern clubs moving into the Prem, my hoped-for away tour of Yorks and Lancs will be somewhat curtailed, sadly.
I live in Cumbria now - so looking forward to the Blackburn, Wigan and Preston away games.
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If Barnsley come up their away end holds 6k....
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Average away support for each club in Division 2 this season.
#1 Leeds United - 2,807
#2 Middlesbrough - 2,515
#3 Sheffield Wednesday - 2,510
#4 Derby - 2,125
#5 Burnley - 1,911
#6 Birmingham City - 1,779
#7 Brighton - 1,658
#8 Preston - 1,506
#9 Wolves - 1,470
#10 Forest - 1,443
#11 Hull - 1,393
#12 Ipswich 1,383
#13 Bristol City - 1,263
#14 QPR - 1,204
#15 Huddersfield - 1,128
#16 Blackburn - 1,106
#17 Brentford - 1,103
#18 Rotherham - 1,041
#19 Reading - 1,040
#20 Fulham - 988
#21 Bolton - 911
#22 Cardiff - 748
#23 Charlton - 637
#24 MK Dons - 636
That Cardiff number surprises me. Thought they always took a decent away following.
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At least we can get back to playing on Saturday at 3pm
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At least we can get back to playing on Saturday at 3pm
Think you may be in for a little shock there....
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Credit this season to the Villa fans, who during the worst season in the clubs history have continually packed out away ends & resorted to black humour of the clubs plight. To the Olbiyuun & Blouse fans enjoy your fun but most Villa fans were resigned to relegation after a 3-2 home defeat to Watford last November. The biggest pisstake of the Villa has come from ourselves & that is a credit to our humour.
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Credit this season to the Villa fans, who during the worst season in the clubs history have continually packed out away ends & resorted to black humour of the clubs plight. To the Olbiyuun & Blouse fans enjoy your fun but most Villa fans were resigned to relegation after a 3-2 home defeat to Watford last November. The biggest pisstake of the Villa has come from ourselves & that is a credit to our humour.
I was resigned to it after Liverpool away in September.
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Well...thanks for nothing Joleon. Don't let the door hit you, where the good Lord split you...Goodbye, good riddance, and fuck off out of my sight.
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I will miss Ayew I have to say. If only we'd had him in a half decent Villa side.
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I will miss Ayew I have to say. If only we'd had him in a half decent Villa side.
He may have hung his boots up by then
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I'm with PWS. I'm sick of just not caring. I should have been at least annoyed today but like everybody else, I'm just numb to it.
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Are we leaving this thread in place for when Villa are bottom of Division 2 in November?
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Watching the last games of the season. How we finished it, how Norwich did it and and in contrast how Newcastle did it.
When dropping down to the Championship the key to getting back up is doing it the very next season. That is a fact and has a lot to do with Premiership squads that can be restructured around a spine that is still affordable thanks to the money that the relegated clubs still receive the following season.
Newcastle, even though they got relegate right at the eve of the season , is in great shape to bounce back. They already signed a new manager and even if Rafa doesn't stay, the fans are behind their team and supported and appreciated the fight they put up in the end. They will almost surely grab one of the spots to the premier. That leaves one more slot for automatic advancement to the Premier League and another by play-off with all the unpredictability of cup-play attached.
And yet, while Villa had half spring to retool. The club is still owned by Mr IDontCareWhatLegacyIDefileCauseIAmARichAmericanWhithoutCulture, we are still managed by that halfwit Black that kept playing the money-grabbing bastards that doesn't care instead of preparing the youngsters for stepping up. The economy of the club is in shambles, the Board has abandoned ship and the fans are beyond caring after enduring 4 years of abuse culminating in a shameful relegation by any standard and unthinkable by Aston Villas. The previously mentioned spine to build around doesn't exist. We pretty much have to get rid of all of them to even have a prayer to finish top 6 next season. Not to mention that a fight-back campaign has never been launched by Aston Villa in the modern era of Football...
So no...its not more fun to go down. The Championship is a quagmire and there is no bottom below if you get stuck.
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Don't underestimate the good a takeover will do.
If it ever happens.
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Don't underestimate the good a takeover will do.
If it ever happens.
Don't underestimate Randolph Fuckwits ability to balls things up.
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There's a lot of water that will pass under both ours and Newcastle's bridges before we start putting their name on the title.
There's a clutch of players at the club who will excell in that division, whether we keep them all and blend them with some more players who have those intangible qualities of leadership. That's the challenge if we're to enjoy it and the elephant in the room must be got rid of. Let's prey this time somebody is willing to take him.off our hands.
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It hasn't been an easy year Chez Mike, for reasons that are much more important than football, but the silly thing is that I still feel a bit sadder this morning because Aston Villa are in the second tier.
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We need to hit next season feeling like a different club. We need an excuse to sell half season tickets really cheaply in the Upper Trinity. We need to use every advantage of just how bloody huge we are to create a force of momentum next season that is unstoppable.
If we can turn around thw oil tanker at the start of next season, we become a juggernaut going in the right direction. But everyone. EVERYONE. Has to be on the same team.
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Also worth remembering that Newcastle are going to lose players too. Especially considering they don't have relegation clauses in a lot of their contracts. Ashley might want to move some players on because of that. Both us and Newcastle are going to look different come August.
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A lot of debate on this last year and I can say with absolute certainty that I enjoyed yesterday more than any Villa game I've watched since the 6-1 twatting of Sunderland.
Frankly, I don't care if we're beating 90% of Prem teams or Rotherham, a win is an enjoyable experience.
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A lot of debate on this last year and I can say with absolute certainty that I enjoyed yesterday more than any Villa game I've watched since the 6-1 twatting of Sunderland.
Frankly, I don't care if we're beating 90% of Prem teams or Rotherham, a win is an enjoyable experience.
Agreed. Yesterday was more enjoyable than any league game over the last few years. Please don't mention Sunderland, though. Sad face.
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It was "only Rotherham."
I'll enjoy this league a lot more when we're beating the other promotion contenders on a regular basis...Sheff Weds, Newcastle, Norwich, Brighton, Derby etc.
Still looking forward to the Huddersfield game anyway.
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It was "only Rotherham."
We've lost to worse. I'm just happy to have enjoyed a day out at VP, its such a rare occurence.
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It's definitely more fun than losing all the time in the Prem.
I was really worried about relegation, as if Randy hadn't sold us we would be on a Blackburn Rovers Venky trajectory now. So I would have even accepted a Pullis or Fat Sam type appointment to keep us up there last year. However given the choice between having stayed up and status quo under Randy, or new ownership under Dr Tony and us being competitive in the championship.
End of the day I just like seeing us going into games knowing we have a chance of winning. It's shaping up to be a great year.
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I'll quite enjoy not playing Utd, Chelsea etc for a year.
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As long as we go straight back up, this season is going to be a riot, but I aint got no crystal ball.