Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Diablo on January 28, 2015, 09:32:12 AM
-
Unbelievable?! Or does this mean the pressure is beginning to tell?
As for Lerner having "fun with the club" - Jeez!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31015504
-
Ooh, the famous "vote of confidence". With a bit of luck we should see the buffoon gone by next Monday.
-
On 5 Live just now, Fox said something along the lines of:
"Randy is not a motivated seller right now... He's having fun with the Villa... He's committed to the club."
Oh, shit.
-
I read "not a motivated seller" in a positive way. It suggests to me that, while he wants out, he won't just sell to any Tom, Dick or Carson who may not have the club's best interests at heart.
-
I read "not a motivated seller" in a positive way. It suggests to me that, while he wants out, he won't just sell to any Tom, Dick or Carson who may not have the club's best interests at heart.
That could be a false narrative though
-
The only alternative meaning I can see is that he doesn't really want to sell after all.
That would mean that either:
(i) he didn't really want to sell in the first place. Seems hugely unlikely as why would you make a statement which would be sure to create uncertainty around the club and have a negative effect on season ticket sales if you didn't mean it?
or
(ii) he's changed his mind and now wants to stay. Possible I suppose, but again, why not just make a statement to that effect if that was the case?
I still feel my inclination that he still wants to sell but won't sell to a cowboy is the most likely interpretation of the "not a motivated seller" comment.
-
The problem is that they could well be doing things behind the scenes to move the club in the right direction, but at the end of the day if we're relegated that all goes out of the window.
-
Well the way I see it is that it is a bit of a false narrative ::)
-
Flick it bitch!
-
Heads
-
The other problem is that he says it's a 'false narrative', but doesn't actually explain how he's come to that conclusion. Every single stat is against Lambert, so it seems odd that you'd completely disregard them.
-
I'm too skint to afford a real coin. :-(
https://www.random.org/coins/?num=1&cur=60-gbp.1pound
-
I have to say, I can see where TF is coming from on this one. Yes, there is a very good case for sacking Lambert but there is absolutely no guarantee that we could bring anybody in who improve things in the long-term. That’s not to say we couldn’t employ somebody like a Pulis or a Laudrup who would get us playing better football in the short-term, but are they going to show the same willingness to work under Lerner’s ownership for the foreseeable future? Or would they do what they did at Palace and Swansea and jump ship as soon as the purse-strings started to tighten? Then we’re back into the Managerial merry-go-round, which, as Fox says, is like flipping a coin.
I think Fox is playing this right. Get a Director of Football in to take some of the work-load from Lambert, and demand that PL put a full and experienced coaching and back-room team in place, and give him the a final chance to turn this around.
-
On 5 Live just now, Fox said something along the lines of:
"Randy is not a motivated seller right now... He's having fun with the Villa... He's committed to the club."
Oh, shit.
Has anybody told Randy that we're having fun with The Villa too!
Fu**in' whale of a time.
Laugh a minute.
Pi**ing ourselves and guffawing with glee every fu**in' game!
-
The other problem is that he says it's a 'false narrative', but doesn't actually explain how he's come to that conclusion. Every single stat is against Lambert, so it seems odd that you'd completely disregard them.
Yeah, I wish they'd just asked the obvious question 'So what's the real narrative, then?'
-
I think Fox is playing this right. Get a Director of Football in to take some of the work-load from Lambert, and demand that PL put a full and experienced coaching and back-room team in place, and give him the a final chance to turn this around.
You can lead a horse to water..
-
False narrative - well I remember after the first 4 games of 97-98 season we were bottom, lost 4 games againt not the greatest opposition and looked shambolic. Nobody was calling for Little's head.
This isn't 4 games - this is 75%+ of the games under Lambert's stewardship.
I love this line:
'But Fox defended the statistics and believes Villa's players are close to delivering on their hard work on the training pitch. '
Really we have a mystic in our presence, do we?
Hard work on the training pitch. You mean their fucking job. Also I would have thought that hard work is a given so then you move on to working smart. Not seen many signs of that if truth be told under Lambert & Co.
Looks like Fox may be just another Mouth On A Stick. I do hope I'm wrong but I wish the Villa hierarchy would stop trying to mug us off.
-
Timing is the thing here.
Would Fox have said this if we had gone out to Bournemouth...somehow I don't think so.
It was the same when new contracts for both Lambert and Agbonlahor were given. They knew they could not be offered when the support was at it's lowest at the back end of last season, so hushered them in when we had won a few games.
Expect Weimann to get a contract extention in the next few days...
-
Timing is the thing here.
Would Fox have said this if we had gone out to Bournemouth...somehow I don't think so.
It was the same when new contracts for both Lambert and Agbonlahor were given. They knew they could not be offered when the support was at it's lowest at the back end of last season, so hushered them in when we had won a few games.
Expect Weimann to get a contract extention in the next few days...
Isn't that just indicative of how people react in general though? In the same way, if we win the next two matches, the talk of changing manager will subside.
-
Timing is the thing here.
Would Fox have said this if we had gone out to Bournemouth...somehow I don't think so.
It was the same when new contracts for both Lambert and Agbonlahor were given. They knew they could not be offered when the support was at it's lowest at the back end of last season, so hushered them in when we had won a few games.
Expect Weimann to get a contract extention in the next few days...
Isn't that just indicative of how people react in general though? In the same way, if we win the next two matches, the talk of changing manager will subside.
That is very true.
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
-
Timing is the thing here.
Would Fox have said this if we had gone out to Bournemouth...somehow I don't think so.
It was the same when new contracts for both Lambert and Agbonlahor were given. They knew they could not be offered when the support was at it's lowest at the back end of last season, so hushered them in when we had won a few games.
Expect Weimann to get a contract extention in the next few days...
Isn't that just indicative of how people react in general though? In the same way, if we win the next two matches, the talk of changing manager will subside.
As an experiment, if we win at Arsenal then beat Chelsea at home start a Lambert Must Go Now ! thread on the Saturday evening and see what happens.
-
Timing is the thing here.
Would Fox have said this if we had gone out to Bournemouth...somehow I don't think so.
It was the same when new contracts for both Lambert and Agbonlahor were given. They knew they could not be offered when the support was at it's lowest at the back end of last season, so hushered them in when we had won a few games.
Expect Weimann to get a contract extention in the next few days...
Isn't that just indicative of how people react in general though? In the same way, if we win the next two matches, the talk of changing manager will subside.
As an experiment, if we win at Arsenal then beat Chelsea at home start a Lambert Must Go Now ! thread on the Saturday evening and see what happens.
I'll do that when we win them both!
-
Whilst I agree with Fox that changing managers at this time of year can be extremely risky, I really hope he's doing his homework now and searching for a more qualified manager to bring in for next season, assuming Lambert continues to demonstrate he's one of the worst managers we've ever had in our history.
Even if Lambert manages to string a few wins together towards the end of the season, it's probably best to face up to the fact he's been a massive failure and for both sides it's best to part.
-
I kind of agree that now it's a gamble. The time for a change was after the qpr game when we had a run of easier looking fixtures coming up and the new guy would've had the time to see what he had and fill some gaps in the window. Now we're at the point where the window has gone (for a new manager) so any change means someone coming in and working with what we have in what looks like a relegation battle. The new contract meant that he was bulletproof at exactly the wrong time, he really shouldn't have survived that run in the autumn.
I still want him gone as I don't see him ever fixing it but as someone else has said, if they insist that he's doing fine right now then maybe the only thing is that we let them go through with the DOF and backroom changes and hand him the rope.
-
Whilst I agree with Fox that changing managers at this time of year can be extremely risky, I really hope he's doing his homework now and searching for a more qualified manager to bring in for next season, assuming Lambert continues to demonstrate he's one of the worst managers we've ever had in our history.
Even if Lambert manages to string a few wins together towards the end of the season, it's probably best to face up to the fact he's been a massive failure and for both sides it's best to part.
Yes. Let' hope the succesion planning is actually quite near completion and we have a number of options. Who knows - maybe even someone from abroad, with zero connections to Sir Timekeeping Whingealot to be on the safe side, unless the 'progressive' thinking is candidate must have Premiership experience
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
On every single level, on every single measurable, Lambert has been a failure.
The fact that the decision makers at the club don't see this is worrying.
Disturbing and worrying.
-
The trouble is finding a suitable candidate to replace Lambert if the American's sack him...but of course that is not going to happen.
Mr Lerner,we have found,is a decent well meaning man who appears to have been found out in the football sense and also the business sense. What he is sure of,however, is the fact that sacking the current manager will cost him money..a lot of money...and this doesn't please him. So we are stuck with Lambert even if we go down.
Fox is a figures man who has been brought in to improve finance. That is his job.
We have just beaten a Championship club who fielded several reserves and people are getting over excited.
Unless we start scoring on a regular basis we could go down.
-
Why does all this remind me of Comical Ali?
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
Yep that's very true. It is staggering that Lambert appears bullet proof.
-
Tom Fox on Randy Lerner,
He's very involved in the football club, he watches every match. I've been at his house watching matches together and both of us are standing up pacing around at various points of time - depending on what's happening - so he know's what's happening here.
He's very, very well informed as to the business side of what's happening on the pitch.
What a joke. He watches every match and is very well informed.. both should be forgone conclusions when owning a football club. Fox acts like the man could do less. Give me a break.
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
On every single level, on every single measurable, Lambert has been a failure.
The fact that the decision makers at the club don't see this is worrying.
Disturbing and worrying.
u
Spot on. Lambert is the luckiest manager in football.
-
I just wonder where this leaves the Shunamitte?
-
What a depressing load of corporate bollocks. I realise he can't very much say anything too disparaging in public but an acknowledgment of our appalling performances for the majority of this season wouldn't go amiss.
-
The trouble is finding a suitable candidate to replace Lambert if the American's sack him...but of course that is not going to happen.
Mr Lerner,we have found,is a decent well meaning man who appears to have been found out in the football sense and also the business sense. What he is sure of,however, is the fact that sacking the current manager will cost him money..a lot of money...and this doesn't please him. So we are stuck with Lambert even if we go down.
Fox is a figures man who has been brought in to improve finance. That is his job.
We have just beaten a Championship club who fielded several reserves and people are getting over excited.
Unless we start scoring on a regular basis we could go down.
Don't make stuff up to base an argument around. We don't know the details of the contract so we have no idea what it would cost, we also don't know that Lerner won't make a change because of cost, we just know that he doesn't want to. I'd be more inclined to believe that it's out a sense of loyalty to Lambert than anything else.
-
For those thinking that this statement is anything other than what it says on the tin, don't be fooled. This guy is going absolutely nowhere anytime soon.
-
as if things weren't bad enough we now have this idiot spouting drivel too. brilliant
-
Flick it bitch!
Lol.... quality post.
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
Making progress?? So 11 goals in 22 league games (only 1 second-half goal) and 3 points off the drop zone? Worrying that Lerner and Fox are so deluded.....
-
Back him with money in the transfer market too then please!!
At least this tells me that they have at least thought about sacking him.
-
Tom Fox and The False Narratives - playing the Bartons after the Chelsea game. Tommy is a beast on the double bass.
-
Back him with money in the transfer market too then please!!
At least this tells me that they have at least thought about sacking him.
The Baggies spent more than us in the summer and with the likely capture of Callum McManaman at £4.75M they'll likely out-spend us again this window. Carles Gil looks a good signing, but at least 2 more are needed.
-
Watches every match? Like fuck he does!
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
Yep that's very true. It is staggering that Lambert appears bullet proof.
Wouldnt say that, the CEO has been quoted as saying that sacking him now is a coin flip i.e. a 50/50 call, a few months after giving him a new four year deal.
Hardly a vote of confidence, as Newcastle have seen better candidates are available in the summer. Might not be a coin flip then.
Might be the reason they arent giving him more money, although to be fair Lambert has been pretty decent in the transfer market thus far. The turkeys he bought were generally cheap plus Guzan and Benteke are worth far more now.
-
That's my take too. That it is a risk now that can go either way. I would hope that the perspective would be different at the end of the season of we only survive and do not improve in the next couple of months.
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
-
So as an employer in a high profile occupation we should call out our staff or players publicly? You would rather our executives took the David Gold/porn dwarf approach than a more measured public persona?
-
I think the coin-toss comment was just a general remark that he feels could be applied to any club - change your manager and it could make things better or make them worse.
Sadly, I think him and Lerner are far too supportive of Lambert to countenance a change.
-
Problem is there is absolutely no guarantee we will survive and given recent form it seems unlikely at the moment.
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
The problem with calling a spade a spade is what if the spade is a 'false spade'. I love the false narrative quote. It reminded me of a former regional manager of mine. If you asked him a question about something he didn't have an answer to he would tell you that he couldn't comment at that point in time as the situation was 'a moving beast'.
-
Watches every match? Like fuck he does!
I reckon he watches the vast majority of them. New York is only 5 hours behind.
-
Blind faith
-
Actions speak louder than words, if in 5 days time this squad is the same then it is going to be a long 3 months or so trying to dodge the bullet! If they believe everything is great with our wonderful mgr then back him to get at least one player who improved the first team - gr8 they took a punt on Gil & got Delph signed up but this squad is desperate for a proven wide option & a striker on loan as the depth below Benteke is woeful, injured or just kids.
-
When a 2-1 victory over a lower league team constitutes a new dawn you know you are in trouble. With a capital T as my old primary school teacher would say
-
hear, hear
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
Well said !
-
Can someone who is going to the Arsenal game make a banner...
"Tom, it is time...flick the coin"
-
Watches every match? Like fuck he does!
I reckon he watches the vast majority of them. New York is only 5 hours behind.
Yeah time wise he could watch, I really doubt he watched Sunderland or Palace or Chelsea away or indeed most of the dross we've endured.
Even he must think..fuck me this is absolutely terrible
-
He says we are making progress but even a quick look at the results and table suggests the opposite.
I'd love to know how he thinks otherwise.
If he really means this then both he and Lerner have their heads not just in the sand, but buried about a foot deep. Also, if this is a fully committed Randy we are seeing then God help us if he ever really loses interest.
On every single level, on every single measurable, Lambert has been a failure.
The fact that the decision makers at the club don't see this is worrying.
Disturbing and worrying.
The thing is, to us fans you're right.
However, his objective for the last 3 seasons has very probably been to slash the wage-bill and keep us in the Premiership. In which case he's achieved it. I'm as certain as I can be that that'll be the way Randy sees it.
-
So as an employer in a high profile occupation we should call out our staff or players publicly? You would rather our executives took the David Gold/porn dwarf approach than a more measured public persona?
It would be gratifying to at least hear someone with some control acknowledge the fact that things have been shit for a good while now and everybody needs to pull their fookin socks up.
The thing is I genuinely don't believe anyone is being read the riot act behind the scenes, which is usually cited as the trade off for platitudes to the public.
-
Watches every match? Like fuck he does!
I reckon he watches the vast majority of them. New York is only 5 hours behind.
Then the quote about Randy enjoying it can't be true. How many games have been an enjoyable spectacle this season? 2/3?
-
So as an employer in a high profile occupation we should call out our staff or players publicly? You would rather our executives took the David Gold/porn dwarf approach than a more measured public persona?
Yes, I would like some performances to be called out publicly. After watching us put in another piss poor performance the last thing I need to hear is someone telling me it was excellent, like I'm a moron who just doesn't understand. I don't want to be told we're training hard either, I take that as a given. I want to see evidence of all this bright new dawn stuff and so far I see nothing yet, either on or off the pitch.
Show me, don't tell me.
-
Watches every match? Like fuck he does!
I reckon he watches the vast majority of them. New York is only 5 hours behind.
Then the quote about Randy enjoying it can't be true.
Maybe he's enjoying looking out and seeing £20,000 per week being burned on players not doing well enough, compared to looking out and seeing £50,000 per week being burned on players not doing well enough.
-
So as an employer in a high profile occupation we should call out our staff or players publicly? You would rather our executives took the David Gold/porn dwarf approach than a more measured public persona?
Yes, I would like some performances to be called out publicly. After watching us put in another piss poor performance the last thing I need to hear is someone telling me it was excellent, like I'm a moron who just doesn't understand. I don't want to be told we're training hard either, I take that as a given. I want to see evidence of all this bright new dawn stuff and so far I see nothing yet, either on or off the pitch.
Show me, don't tell me.
If there is one thing guaranteed to piss off the football world it is board members slagging managers in public, they just view it as people who have never played the game interfering in stuff they know little about. That is then the climate you present when it comes to future recruitment.
-
Watches every match? Like fuck he does!
I reckon he watches the vast majority of them. New York is only 5 hours behind.
Then the quote about Randy enjoying it can't be true.
Maybe he's enjoying looking out and seeing £20,000 per week being burned on players not doing well enough, compared to looking out and seeing £50,000 per week being burned on players not doing well enough.
I doubt very much if anyone at the club enjoys the state of the club at the moment so Fox needs to quit with the "he's enjoying it" bullshit. He must think we were all born yesterday.
-
If there is one thing guaranteed to piss off the football world it is board members slagging managers in public, they just view it as people who have never played the game interfering in stuff they know little about. That is then the climate you present when it comes to future recruitment.
I don't know, it's not as if owners / chairmen criticising managers prevents them from getting new managers does it? In any case, I don't think we'll be doing much recruitment for the next three years, by which time it'll all be long forgotten.
I'm not advocating a 'I'm fucked, you're fucked, we're all fucking fucked' style meltdown but I don't think a little straight talking would go amiss. Statements like this seem designed to protect the feelings of people behind the scenes rather than tell anyone - supporters, media, whoever - what's actually going on. Not that they really need to, since we can all spot a badly run club when we see one, but some acknowledgement would help.
-
I agree with Hilts. I understand the defensive attitude, it's important to keep up appearances and not air dirty linen and other cliches. However, 'false narrative' is such a bullshit phrase as to almost be insulting. Also, the implication that fans are throwing tantrums because of short-term discontent with results was hardly welcome.
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
To be fair they have said it repeatedly over the past few years. Including 3 managers, both CEO's and the owner.
All have said its not good enough and the priority is getting the club "back up where it belongs".
Talking about it has been no problem.
-
So as an employer in a high profile occupation we should call out our staff or players publicly? You would rather our executives took the David Gold/porn dwarf approach than a more measured public persona?
Yes, I would like some performances to be called out publicly. After watching us put in another piss poor performance the last thing I need to hear is someone telling me it was excellent, like I'm a moron who just doesn't understand. I don't want to be told we're training hard either, I take that as a given. I want to see evidence of all this bright new dawn stuff and so far I see nothing yet, either on or off the pitch.
Show me, don't tell me.
If there is one thing guaranteed to piss off the football world it is board members slagging managers in public, they just view it as people who have never played the game interfering in stuff they know little about. That is then the climate you present when it comes to future recruitment.
I didn't say I wanted Fox to come out with it. I said I'm sick of everyone telling us it's all fine when there's a big Elephant standing in the corner of the room called no goals. Yes Bournemouth was great, but we're back to the nitty gritty of league football now and as per usual our form is bad and we are on a shitty run. Lambert seriously pisses me off with his patronizing excellent interviews.
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
To be fair they have said it repeatedly over the past few years. Including 3 managers, both CEO's and the owner.
All have said its not good enough and the priority is getting the club "back up where it belongs".
Talking about it has been no problem.
How many times have you heard the manager come on the radio and say ''look that wasn't good enough''. How many times have we put in a performance that clearly wasn't good enough? How many times have we been told that scoring 0 again was excellent?
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
To be fair they have said it repeatedly over the past few years. Including 3 managers, both CEO's and the owner.
All have said its not good enough and the priority is getting the club "back up where it belongs".
Talking about it has been no problem.
How many times have you heard the manager come on the radio and say ''look that wasn't good enough''. How many times have we put in a performance that clearly wasn't good enough? How many times have we been told that scoring 0 again was excellent?
Oh that? Never. You are right.
He always says the same thing after every game. Excellent etc. Never holds up his hands and blames himself or his players.
I thought you were talking about the higher level "club needs to be doing better" malarky. Everyone says that.
-
Sorry, I turned it in to another anti-Lambert rant.
-
I doubt that there is much that Fox could say that would be appropriate or truthful.
All this confirms is they are not planning any change to the Manager any time soon. It also suggests that they are all backing each other up in the belief that they know what they are doing and everything will turn out fine.
They may believe this is the case but they are complete idiots if they think that the majority of supporters are buying it.
-
Tom Fox on Randy Lerner,
He's very involved in the football club, he watches every match. I've been at his house watching matches together and both of us are standing up pacing around at various points of time - depending on what's happening - so he know's what's happening here.
He's very, very well informed as to the business side of what's happening on the pitch.
What a joke. He watches every match and is very well informed.. both should be forgone conclusions when owning a football club. Fox acts like the man could do less. Give me a break.
I bet he hasn't stood up in bloody ages
-
Why does all this remind me of Comical Ali?
In the Sun he said we have a 5 year plan to get us back into Europe.......ring any bells?
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
To be fair they have said it repeatedly over the past few years. Including 3 managers, both CEO's and the owner.
All have said its not good enough and the priority is getting the club "back up where it belongs".
Talking about it has been no problem.
How many times have you heard the manager come on the radio and say ''look that wasn't good enough''. How many times have we put in a performance that clearly wasn't good enough? How many times have we been told that scoring 0 again was excellent?
If we were excellent as often as he says we were we'd be in the top 4 now. Does he not feel like an idiot saying it.
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
Well said !
Really? Yes he should be sacked, but do you really want the CEO publicly bad mouthing current employees? It would put massive pressure on lambert and possibly put off future managers.
-
Really? Yes he should be sacked, but do you really want the CEO publicly bad mouthing current employees? It would put massive pressure on lambert and possibly put off future managers.
It's immaterial really. They don't think he's doing a bad job, they don't want to sack him and consequently he's under no pressure at all.
-
just fuck him off
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
Well said !
Really? Yes he should be sacked, but do you really want the CEO publicly bad mouthing current employees? It would put massive pressure on lambert and possibly put off future managers.
Perhaps the happy medium is to not say anything at all. All Fox has managed to do is piss people off with this latest speech. He hasn't exactly backed Lambert, he hasn't exactly slated him in public either. In fact, the whole speel is altogether confusing, and pointless. Personally, I hope the whole thing leads to a major overhaul in the summer because the one thing he did say that I totally agree with is that most things, good and bad, come through the Manager, and if we think ours is a tit, then the summer would be a good time to put this right. No more shit, no more words, action. Show us.
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
Well said !
Really? Yes he should be sacked, but do you really want the CEO publicly bad mouthing current employees? It would put massive pressure on lambert and possibly put off future managers.
Perhaps the happy medium is to not say anything at all. All Fox has managed to do is piss people off with this latest speech. He hasn't exactly backed Lambert, he hasn't exactly slated him in public either. In fact, the whole speel is altogether confusing, and pointless. Personally, I hope the whole thing leads to a major overhaul in the summer because the one thing he did say that I totally agree with is that most things, good and bad, come through the Manager, and if we think ours is a tit, then the summer would be a good time to put this right. No more shit, no more words, action. Show us.
Reading this thread, I agree with that. You get one half of fans moaning that they don't say anything and the other half moaning when they do pop their heads above the parapet. Damned if they do...
-
It's frustrating that everyone in a position of power at the club talks out of their arse. I'd love just one of them to call a spade a spade and say it's not fucking good enough and things are going to change.
Well said !
Really? Yes he should be sacked, but do you really want the CEO publicly bad mouthing current employees? It would put massive pressure on lambert and possibly put off future managers.
Perhaps the happy medium is to not say anything at all. All Fox has managed to do is piss people off with this latest speech. He hasn't exactly backed Lambert, he hasn't exactly slated him in public either. In fact, the whole speel is altogether confusing, and pointless. Personally, I hope the whole thing leads to a major overhaul in the summer because the one thing he did say that I totally agree with is that most things, good and bad, come through the Manager, and if we think ours is a tit, then the summer would be a good time to put this right. No more shit, no more words, action. Show us.
Reading this thread, I agree with that. You get one half of fans moaning that they don't say anything and the other half moaning when they do pop their heads above the parapet. Damned if they do...
When they open their mouths though it's usually PR bullshit.
-
Reading this thread, I agree with that. You get one half of fans moaning that they don't say anything and the other half moaning when they do pop their heads above the parapet. Damned if they do...
To be honest I think most fans just want to hear something meaningful rather than the platitudes we usually get, as in today's case. You wait ages for some sort of statement and when it finally arrives it's a load of old pony.
-
I'm clearly in a minority but I've been impressed with what Fox has said to date. Getting the balance between ambition and realistic targets just about right. Diplomatic too.
-
Just listened to his interview on the radio, what a pile of patronising shite. 'False narratives' my arse, you spend less than everyone else year after year (at a time when turnover is £30m > than during the O'Neil years), you will generally get inferior players and finish lower down the league than them. The longer you do this the less likely you are to buck the trend. I could present statistics to prove this obvious and simple fact if he doesn't believe me...
Secondly no-one's going to buy this crap about us being on track for top half finishes, cup finals and European runs. In this, Lambert's 3rd season we have made zero progress from his first in terms of league position. And are we supposed to believe the owner knows what a long term plan is? We've already had 'the 5 year plan' which mysteriously vanished into thin air, followed by the most ridiculously polar managerial appointments one could imagine.
in short, fuck off Tom.
-
Just listened to his interview on the radio, what a pile of patronising shite. 'False narratives' my arse, you spend less than everyone else year after year (at a time when turnover is £30m > than during the O'Neil years), you will generally get inferior players and finish lower down the league than them. The longer you do this the less likely you are to buck the trend. I could present statistics to prove this obvious and simple fact if he doesn't believe me...
Secondly no-one's going to buy this crap about us being on track for top half finishes, cup finals and European runs. In this, Lambert's 3rd season we have made zero progress from his first in terms of league position. And are we supposed to believe the owner knows what a long term plan is? We've already had 'the 5 year plan' which mysteriously vanished into thin air, followed by the most ridiculously polar managerial appointments one could imagine.
in short, fuck off Tom.
Thank you for that thoughtful contribution to the debate.
-
You're welcome.
-
Sacking Lambert would be like flicking a coin with two heads.
-
Can anyone tell me these things that are going on behind the scenes? It did seem like patronizing drivel.
Of course the likes of Gabby are saying nice things about the gaffer, he never drops them.
-
I don't get why Fox cant just come out and be straight with people, rather than this irritating habit of talking in riddles.
He's basically Paul Faulkner with an American accent.
-
Just listened to his interview on the radio, what a pile of patronising shite. 'False narratives' my arse, you spend less than everyone else year after year (at a time when turnover is £30m > than during the O'Neil years), you will generally get inferior players and finish lower down the league than them. The longer you do this the less likely you are to buck the trend. I could present statistics to prove this obvious and simple fact if he doesn't believe me...
Secondly no-one's going to buy this crap about us being on track for top half finishes, cup finals and European runs. In this, Lambert's 3rd season we have made zero progress from his first in terms of league position. And are we supposed to believe the owner knows what a long term plan is? We've already had 'the 5 year plan' which mysteriously vanished into thin air, followed by the most ridiculously polar managerial appointments one could imagine.
in short, fuck off Tom.
Not bad. I'm prepared to give him a chance though. :)
-
Can anyone tell me these things that are going on behind the scenes? It did seem like patronizing drivel.
Of course the likes of Gabby are saying nice things about the gaffer, he never drops them.
Overhaul of the scouting system, don't know if it's happened yet.
Rumours of someone coming in to do the things Paul doesn't believe in or knows about (football management?) like data analysis, diet etc
Assistant manager? Has anyone looked for one?
Coaches? Maybe employing some with decent experience, respected at the top level?
There's lots we can do but haven't yet.
-
I don't get why Fox cant just come out and be straight with people, rather than this irritating habit of talking in riddles.
Short of "this isn't good enough so we've decided to sack the manager and his staff", what sort of thing could he say that would make you happier?
-
Newcastle have recently lost their manager and and as a consequence have had to promote Carver to manager for the rest of the season. I'd like to think that we would be shopping in the same market as Newcastle (for a manger) and therefore there is a decent chance that we too would fail to find anyone decent. Maybe that is the point which Fox is trying to make with his 'coin toss' statement.
Assuming Lambert's job IS safe, Newcastle's Carver experiment could be an interesting Sliding Doors comparison. My prediction is that they will get worse from their current 11th position.
Hopefully the fact that Fox has said such a thing means that the idea is on the agenda and he is thinking of candidates for the summer.
-
Just listened to his interview on the radio, what a pile of patronising shite. 'False narratives' my arse, you spend less than everyone else year after year (at a time when turnover is £30m > than during the O'Neil years), you will generally get inferior players and finish lower down the league than them. The longer you do this the less likely you are to buck the trend. I could present statistics to prove this obvious and simple fact if he doesn't believe me...
Secondly no-one's going to buy this crap about us being on track for top half finishes, cup finals and European runs. In this, Lambert's 3rd season we have made zero progress from his first in terms of league position. And are we supposed to believe the owner knows what a long term plan is? We've already had 'the 5 year plan' which mysteriously vanished into thin air, followed by the most ridiculously polar managerial appointments one could imagine.
in short, fuck off Tom.
Thank you for that thoughtful contribution to the debate.
It may have been crudely expressed but, in his defence, there's more passion, truth and insight in his post than there is in today's statement.
-
You are all seeing a different narrative though...
-
Wait, was the interviewer Pat Murphy?
What a twat. I would love to see Pat Murphy fired thats for damn sure. No downside there.
-
Newcastle have recently lost their manager and and as a consequence have had to promote Carver to manager for the rest of the season. I'd like to think that we would be shopping in the same market as Newcastle (for a manger) and therefore there is a decent chance that we too would fail to find anyone decent. Maybe that is the point which Fox is trying to make with his 'coin toss' statement.
Assuming Lambert's job IS safe, Newcastle's Carver experiment could be an interesting Sliding Doors comparison. My prediction is that they will get worse from their current 11th position.
Hopefully the fact that Fox has said such a thing means that the idea is on the agenda and he is thinking of candidates for the summer.
Which, under all the bluff and rhetoric, is pretty much how I read it too.
-
Faulkener said the same about not sacking TSM1. They looked at the facts of teams that had done sacked managers mid-season and the odds indicated they shouldn't... The fact he shouldn't have been appointed in the first place is a moot one.
-
I don't get why Fox cant just come out and be straight with people, rather than this irritating habit of talking in riddles.
Short of "this isn't good enough so we've decided to sack the manager and his staff", what sort of thing could he say that would make you happier?
I expect him not to patronize and belittle the fans (the people who contribute towards his wages). Who exactly does he think he is?
That interview is an absolute disgrace. Hes basically telling us to pay our money and stop moaning.
-
Just listened to his interview on the radio, what a pile of patronising shite. 'False narratives' my arse, you spend less than everyone else year after year (at a time when turnover is £30m > than during the O'Neil years), you will generally get inferior players and finish lower down the league than them. The longer you do this the less likely you are to buck the trend. I could present statistics to prove this obvious and simple fact if he doesn't believe me...
Secondly no-one's going to buy this crap about us being on track for top half finishes, cup finals and European runs. In this, Lambert's 3rd season we have made zero progress from his first in terms of league position. And are we supposed to believe the owner knows what a long term plan is? We've already had 'the 5 year plan' which mysteriously vanished into thin air, followed by the most ridiculously polar managerial appointments one could imagine.
in short, fuck off Tom.
Thank you for that thoughtful contribution to the debate.
It may have been crudely expressed but, in his defence, there's more passion, truth and insight in his post than there is in today's statement.
Indeed.
And who in their right mind believes Lerner is "having fun with the club again"? If this is his idea of having fun God help Villa if he gets a bit bored of us again.
-
I don't get why Fox cant just come out and be straight with people, rather than this irritating habit of talking in riddles.
Short of "this isn't good enough so we've decided to sack the manager and his staff", what sort of thing could he say that would make you happier?
I expect him not to patronize and belittle the fans (the people who contribute towards his wages). Who exactly does he think he is?
That interview is an absolute disgrace. Hes basically telling us to pay our money and stop moaning.
Can you pinpoint what he actually said which lead you to reach that conclusion? There is absolute justification for being pissed off with the whole situation but I don't think he has done too much wrong here - what is the disgraceful bit for example?
-
the 'wrong narative' will now go down into the forum history along with the Shumanite women, we go again, Barry's penalty, Parma's attendance and fists all over you, etc
in ten years time and more it will be trotted out in posts on this good old site from time to time,
its what football boards are all about, brilliant
-
Don't forget African car reverser.
-
Just listened to his interview on the radio, what a pile of patronising shite. 'False narratives' my arse, you spend less than everyone else year after year (at a time when turnover is £30m > than during the O'Neil years), you will generally get inferior players and finish lower down the league than them. The longer you do this the less likely you are to buck the trend. I could present statistics to prove this obvious and simple fact if he doesn't believe me...
Secondly no-one's going to buy this crap about us being on track for top half finishes, cup finals and European runs. In this, Lambert's 3rd season we have made zero progress from his first in terms of league position. And are we supposed to believe the owner knows what a long term plan is? We've already had 'the 5 year plan' which mysteriously vanished into thin air, followed by the most ridiculously polar managerial appointments one could imagine.
in short, fuck off Tom.
Thank you for that thoughtful contribution to the debate.
It may have been crudely expressed but, in his defence, there's more passion, truth and insight in his post than there is in today's statement.
Indeed.
And who in their right mind believes Lerner is "having fun with the club again"? If this is his idea of having fun God help Villa if he gets a bit bored of us again.
Indeed.
And I wonder how that "false narrative" chimes with the reasons they gave for binning McLeish - after one season, lest we forget, rather than 2.5 - which were as follows.
"Aston Villa can confirm that Alex McLeish's contract has been terminated with immediate effect. The club has been disappointed with this season's results, performances and the general message these have sent to our fans.
"The board wishes to assure supporters that we are conscious in every sense that Villa expects and deserves more and we will strive to deliver this."
Villa chairman Randy Lerner said: "We need to be clear and candid with ourselves and with supporters about what we have lacked in recent years.
"Compelling play and results that instil a sense of confidence that Villa is on the right track have been plainly absent.
"The most immediate action that we can take is to look carefully at our options in terms of bringing in a new manager who sees the club's potential and embraces our collective expectations."
So, back then Lerner - in his own words - thought compelling play and results showing we were on the right track had been "plainly absent".
Fast forward to now, and since then we've had another unbroken 2.5 years of pretty much exactly the same "plain absence" of compelling play and results, but now it is all about "false narratives".
I understand their need to say something but not resort to slagging off the manager in public, I just wish they could find some way of doing it that didn't read like a kick in the teeth to the supporters, a "fuck you, you just don't get it".
They're going to struggle to shift season tickets in the summer, even more than they did last year, and frankly, they absolutely deserve to.
-
One day I'll wake up and the TSM didn't manage Aston Villa.
We all will - surely?
-
I just think Mr Fox needs to get a bit 'brummie'.What he has said isn't that bad.
-
I'm clearly in a minority but I've been impressed with what Fox has said to date. Getting the balance between ambition and realistic targets just about right. Diplomatic too.
I think his point about a 'false narrative' is true in some cases, but I am not sure it can be applied to Paul Lambert. A manager might go into a club and install good practices behind the scenes without getting the results to show for it. In such a case then I guess results and performances could be classed as a 'false narrative'. For example, some people point out Eddie Howe's time at Burnley as being an important part of their recent success, even though he didn't get the results he needed at the time and got sacked. If it was Lambert's first season, then I think there maybe could be a case, but he's well into his third season now and there hasn't been any notable progress. It's not just the results and performances either, it's also the unwanted records, the total u-turns on playing style, disciplinary issues with coaching staff and the nonsense spoken after games. It's a pretty damning case to be honest.
-
Just watched him. Strikes me that Paul has become his mate and he is trying to defend him. How about supporting him with getting in an assistant manager and coaching team that will help implement this new style if you are so keen to not sack him.
-
One day I'll wake up and the TSM didn't manage Aston Villa.
We all will - surely?
One day I would love to hear the story behind it. I mean it was so utterly and obviously a terrible idea there HAS to be a story there as to how it happened.
-
I can tell you now. One day Randy and Paul (the other one) were playing pin the tail on the football manager donkey - the rest is history ; they kept on doing it.
-
I'm clearly in a minority but I've been impressed with what Fox has said to date. Getting the balance between ambition and realistic targets just about right. Diplomatic too.
I think his point about a 'false narrative' is true in some cases, but I am not sure it can be applied to Paul Lambert. A manager might go into a club and install good practices behind the scenes without getting the results to show for it. In such a case then I guess results and performances could be classed as a 'false narrative'. For example, some people point out Eddie Howe's time at Burnley as being an important part of their recent success, even though he didn't get the results he needed at the time and got sacked. If it was Lambert's first season, then I think there maybe could be a case, but he's well into his third season now and there hasn't been any notable progress. It's not just the results and performances either, it's also the unwanted records, the total u-turns on playing style, disciplinary issues with coaching staff and the nonsense spoken after games. It's a pretty damning case to be honest.
Nigel Clough at Derby too, he had to do an awful lot of spade work in over hauling sqaud and finances which McLaren, to his credit also, is now benefiting from.
-
Coin is flicked.............. "and I'm please to announce that Villa's new manager is......... Mali"
-
Fox says Lerner isn't motivated to sell Villa. The truth is he isn't motivated about Villa, full stop. That includes sacking Lambert. He hasn't got the stomach for that and the inevitably farcical manager search that will follow, so we should just lap it up.
Put simply, the club will not sack Lambert, but will talk their way around all the compelling reasons why he should go. All this, despite the fact that Fox says Birmingham people don't want to hear talk, they want action. Don't patronise us, Mr Fox. Birmingham people are fine with talk, as long as it's straight talk, and not that convoluted business bullshit so prevalent in board rooms over the pond. Straight talk, something we have not heard in Lerner's time here.
The idea that Randy is suddenly motivated, after the defeated and slightly mad statement he put out in May gives credence to the idea that he is a man of impulse. He's capricious and whimsical. He bought the club on a whim, and runs it on a whim. It's not good news that he now wants to stay.
-
One day I'll wake up and the TSM didn't manage Aston Villa.
We all will - surely?
In a sort of Ingsoc, "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." way?
-
Pat Murphy has his faults but bravo for trying to point out a few home truths to Fox.
The club have had a remarkably easy ride from the media. That was the first time I've seen anyone in the press point out just a few of the current truly shocking statistics.
I'd like to know what sort of events they are that we don't see which mitigate things like Lambert's shocking win record.
-
It's all trying to read between the lines of course, which makes it easy to put two and two together and come up with five, but I get the impression that Lambert is a long way from getting the push. Lerner just doesn't seem the type to get rid of someone easily. I respect him for that, too.
Given that he apparently said to Lambert, on him becoming manager, that this would be the toughest year of his managerial career, he surely looks at the situation from the perspective of 'I've asked this guy to put up with a lot and he's kept us up and never moaned about the situation in public. What kind of person would I be now, if I turned round and said thanks, but I don't need you anymore?'
I just get the impression that Lerner really wants to do the right thing, particularly if he feels that someone he is employing has been genuinely loyal. Lambert likely has a good rapport with him as well; there aren't many people in football that have a bad word to say about him personally. You are much more likely to hear people saying good things about him as a person. I'm not defending Lambert's record per se, but I think Lerner looks at the situation and likely thinks that he himself is as much responsible as anyone else, so is not inclined to shift the blame on to the manager.
That said, I'd imagine he wants to see things improve now that the ship is seemingly on an even keel financially. Fox is the unknown variable in the equation though. He's not been there long, so will have likely started by going along with Lerner's ideas initially. He seems like a smart bloke, so I imagine the longer he is in situ, the more likely it is he will have his own ideas as to what is required. Whereas Faulkner gave the impression of being Lerner's spokesperon, without any real authority of his own, I think Fox is more likely to be his own person and is thus more likely to be more independent of thought and garner more operational power, which might translate in the longer term, if results don't improve, to something along the lines of 'I've intervened in all of these areas to indirectly improve the playing side of things, with no reward, so now the only alternative is to intervene directly'. Who knows though. Results could improve as a result of work going on behind the scenes.
-
I was puzzled when Foxy described sacking managers as "taking the easy option". Not after you've just extended his contract and you're trying to save pennies it isn't. The way he spoke about Randy reminded me of some of the party line bullshit that Krulak used to spout on here. Was anyone convinced for a single minute?
-
Saw the interview with Fivelive and thougth Fox came across very bland and really didn't say much of note. Don't know why he's come out now anyway. Surely the defeat at Lesiceter a few weeks back would have been the time to do it.
-
Saw the interview with Fivelive and thougth Fox came across very bland and really didn't say much of note. Don't know why he's come out now anyway. Surely the defeat at Lesiceter a few weeks back would have been the time to do it.
They've done this type of thing before. Stay silent while the team struggles from week to week, wait for a rare win then spout some bullshit PR to try and appease the fans.
I must say Fox has fallen a bit in my estimation. He was almost saying to the fans that they know nothing about football and we shouldn't be troubled by our horrible results. Who on earth is he trying to kid?
-
I'm clearly in a minority but I've been impressed with what Fox has said to date. Getting the balance between ambition and realistic targets just about right. Diplomatic too.
I think his point about a 'false narrative' is true in some cases, but I am not sure it can be applied to Paul Lambert. A manager might go into a club and install good practices behind the scenes without getting the results to show for it. In such a case then I guess results and performances could be classed as a 'false narrative'. For example, some people point out Eddie Howe's time at Burnley as being an important part of their recent success, even though he didn't get the results he needed at the time and got sacked. If it was Lambert's first season, then I think there maybe could be a case, but he's well into his third season now and there hasn't been any notable progress. It's not just the results and performances either, it's also the unwanted records, the total u-turns on playing style, disciplinary issues with coaching staff and the nonsense spoken after games. It's a pretty damning case to be honest.
As you say, results, performances, unwanted records and u-turns. Balanced against a few good value buys. The poster boy of which seems disinterested at the moment. Possibly why he attracts half hearted interest from a club like Spurs whilst Bony goes to City for big money. However, for me the time for change was a few weeks ago. With the transfer window closing we need to give him one last throw of the dice now. Depending on how the rest of the season goes we should consider making a quick McLeish like decision after the final game. We should also consider that whilst Fox appears to be against a change of manager he is probably considering/open to the possibility but quite rightly not saying so publicly.
-
Fox's spiel could have been summed up, thus:
"We've found our yes-man and we're sticking with him."
-
We should also consider that whilst Fox appears to be against a change of manager he is probably considering/open to the possibility but quite rightly not saying so publicly.
That would be my guess too. That gives Fox about 4 months to discreetly find a new manager.
-
Mediawatch's take:
Said Aston Villa chief executive on Paul Lambert's future: "When things aren't going well, fans bay for blood. That's not the way that I or the owner are going to make a decision. It'd be like flipping a coin."
Two things, Tom:
1) It's nothing like flipping a coin. Flipping a coin is a 50-50 call based on chance. Sacking a manager comes down to estimating if the current manager is meeting reasonable expectations, if anyone else could do better and assessing the availability of alternative options.
2) Describing sacking managers, a large part of your responsibility, as 'flipping a coin' slightly undermines your role as CEO, no?
-
I'd like to ask Tom Fox on what does he base his opinion Paul Lambert is a good manager on? If there are as he says '' a lot of reasons why the performances weren't where they wanted them to be'' any chance of filling us in on a few of them? Because it's been 2 and a half years of shit performances and results, so what's the excuses? Let's hear them. Some of the problems take a long time to fix, sounds like another 5 year plan in the making.
He mentions we are in the business of making the fans proud, then mentions results and the style of play.... is it possible someones had a word in Lamberts ear and told him, look this long ball zero possession zero goals shit is not on, you have to change it or we will have to change you.
I know it's his job but come on, does anyone believe he comes away from all the games positive after watching us take another 70 minutes to have a shot on target, and that we are so close to achieving something because of all the hard work in training. From where I watch we currently on the pitch look further away from being a good team than we did during the end of the first season, nearly two years ago. Performances and results have got worse.
The positives are that someone is asking them the hard questions and someone is answering them.
I really want Lambert sacked.
-
It's obviously a load of corporate spin. Fox has been involved in premier league football long enough to know we are an appalling team having another appalling season. I expect he knows Lambert isn't up to the job and should have been sacked ages ago.
-
Alternatively, maybe Fox is trying to say, well we could sack Lambert, but with this chairman we could end up with anybody, so do we really want to go through with it?
-
It's obviously a load of corporate spin. Fox has been involved in premier league football long enough to know we are an appalling team having another appalling season. I expect he knows Lambert isn't up to the job and should have been sacked ages ago.
Maybe this is why Randy wanted him: winning isn't everything (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2243867/Arsenal-chief-Tom-Fox-Winning-isnt-everything.html).
-
It's obviously a load of corporate spin. Fox has been involved in premier league football long enough to know we are an appalling team having another appalling season. I expect he knows Lambert isn't up to the job and should have been sacked ages ago.
Maybe this is why Randy wanted him: winning isn't everything (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2243867/Arsenal-chief-Tom-Fox-Winning-isnt-everything.html).
Newspaper in misleading headline shocker
What he actually says is
"So our brand is defined by more than winning.'
-
Fox's spiel could have been summed up, thus:
"We've found our yes-man and we're sticking with him."
...for the rest of this season, then we'll see?
-
Fox's spiel could have been summed up, thus:
"We've found our yes-man and we're sticking with him."
...for the rest of this season, then we'll see?
Yep that would be my approach. I think it would be a bit of a gamble and the panic button might have to be pressed if things get worse, but the end of the season would seem a natural point for a parting of the ways. I think Lambert would walk away with his reputation fairly intact in the wider football world (those who think it's a very tough job and we have 'fickle' fans) and we could move in another direction.
-
He could have done that without the four year deal...
-
I hope Tom is talking to Arsene Wenger to identify future managers in similar mould. Tom need some times to look for a new manager so he probably will have a short list for the summer time. Our priority now is to find more goals and creative players and a goalscorer to play with Benteke.
-
Wenger is a brilliant manager. Too good for Arsenal fans. I do wish he had left them a couple of years ago when he was rumored to be looking.
-
It's obviously a load of corporate spin. Fox has been involved in premier league football long enough to know we are an appalling team having another appalling season. I expect he knows Lambert isn't up to the job and should have been sacked ages ago.
Maybe this is why Randy wanted him: winning isn't everything (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2243867/Arsenal-chief-Tom-Fox-Winning-isnt-everything.html).
Newspaper in misleading headline shocker
What he actually says is
"So our brand is defined by more than winning.'
I agree, but then again, I can see why Arsenal fans wouldn't have been too enamoured with stuff like this.
When they see that we can attract – even though we haven't won a trophy in seven years – one of the top global brands in the world for the type of money and financial commitment they're making, that makes our fans feel proud.
It's all rather nu-football, it gradually reduces it to the sort of relationship you have with M&S because you like their £10 meal for 2 offers, or Pizza Express because you like their pizzas.
I appreciate that's the way the game is these days, but I still find that sort of disconnect shown there to be pretty depressing.
-
You're not talking ordinary football supporters, you're talking Arsenal. Never has a club been so totally re-invented.
-
Although, even if we fail to score for another five games, at least we'll always have Dafabet.
I love those guys.
-
You're not talking ordinary football supporters, you're talking Arsenal. Never has a club been so totally re-invented.
Honestly I put up with them up until we beat them opening day at their place. Never have I seen such a bunch of spoilt petulant twats than the aftermath of that game.
-
It's obviously a load of corporate spin. Fox has been involved in premier league football long enough to know we are an appalling team having another appalling season. I expect he knows Lambert isn't up to the job and should have been sacked ages ago.
Maybe this is why Randy wanted him: winning isn't everything (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2243867/Arsenal-chief-Tom-Fox-Winning-isnt-everything.html).
Newspaper in misleading headline shocker
What he actually says is
"So our brand is defined by more than winning.'
I agree, but then again, I can see why Arsenal fans wouldn't have been too enamoured with stuff like this.
When they see that we can attract – even though we haven't won a trophy in seven years – one of the top global brands in the world for the type of money and financial commitment they're making, that makes our fans feel proud.
It's all rather nu-football, it gradually reduces it to the sort of relationship you have with M&S because you like their £10 meal for 2 offers, or Pizza Express because you like their pizzas.
I appreciate that's the way the game is these days, but I still find that sort of disconnect shown there to be pretty depressing.
you're right but then again that's his remit. His job is to bring in the money so that it is available for football side of the business to prosper. It doesn't reflect well on Wenger that despite so much commercial success Arsenal went such a long time without winning a trophy.
-
Flick that Bloody coin for heavens sake!
-
No one could do any worse ffs
-
Flip the fucking coin, because it is beyond repair.
-
Please fox. End the pain
-
Terrible manager, in my long years as a villa supporter I can't remember as bad a manager. Fox and Lerner need to realise that Lambert isn't going to turn this around. Chelsea are going to rip us a new Swiss Roll.
-
fickle bastards, give him a chance
-
End this shambles now Lerner.
-
Flick the coin Mr Fox.
-
flick the coin and fox fuck off aswell ya nob
-
It's embarrassing how they don't see it. They should have a word with Sir Graham and ask him to come on board to help them see the footballing side of the business.
Lambert simply has to go.
-
Hopefully Arsenal still have a post they can offer Fox. I hate the bloke and want him out almost as much as the manager.
-
Flip it FFS.
-
Flick the bean.
-
No one could do any worse ffs
That is usually a dangerous statement to make but as things stand right now it is very hard to argue with. Also, if Villa fans go collectively ballistic tonight and in the coming days I don't think we can be accused of a knee jerk reaction or an over reaction. Can you name a luckier bloke in Premier League history to stay in a job for so long whilst results being so consistently poor?
-
No point in sacking him now, we are f####d, we missed the opportunity a month or two back. I was in the 'get Pulis in' camp because it's his straight talking type needed. Changing the manager when the transfer window will be shut and when there appears no great options to appoint is a waste of time. Sorry to be so negative but we have had it and the club management deserve their fate. He might not even get sacked when we go down!
-
I've just told him by email to flip it now.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
-
stevie wonder will do he would see more of whats goin on
-
I've just told him by email to flip it now.
Me too.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
-
I'm not at all worried who could come in , I seriously can not imagine anyone else being as clueless as this clown.
-
What gets me is how he just sits there, exerting next to no influence on the game. The match just seems to happen in front of him while he doesn't take much notice.
It really is absolutely unacceptable.
-
I can only imagine the thinking (yeah tenuous with these clowns in charge) here is that get these few tough games out the way and we can play catch up with a run of easier games rather than sack this clown now.
-
I'd love to work for Lerner. Imagine being that shit at your job and being handed a 4 year extension.
-
Fox talking about Europe in 5 years, I genuinely think there's more chance of being in League 1 in 5 years.
-
what is the email address
-
Fox talking about Europe in 5 years, I genuinely think there's more chance of being in League 1 in 5 years.
There's more chance of Antarctica being in Europe in 5 years time.
-
Fox talking about Europe in 5 years, I genuinely think there's more chance of being in League 1 in 5 years.
Someone needs to explain to him the difference between pitting ourselves against the best of Ligue 1 and that of League 1.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
-
When was the last time Russia paid Capello?
-
Fox talking about Europe in 5 years, I genuinely think there's more chance of being in League 1 in 5 years.
Yeah that interview is beginning to look like a false narrative
-
I think it's obvious now that Lerner is prepared to take relegation over sacking Lambert.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
Right now we need a manager who can tell his arse from his elbow.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
As ever, the snide comments continue. Here is another of those who knocked people for daring to criticise Lambert and Lerner.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
As ever, the snide comments continue. Here is another of those who knocked people for daring to criticise Lambert and Lerner.
What on earth are you talking about?
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
As ever, the snide comments continue. Here is another of those who knocked people for daring to criticise Lambert and Lerner.
If you've only come back to abuse other posters, don't bother.
-
Let's flick the fucking coin.
-
I can only imagine the thinking (yeah tenuous with these clowns in charge) here is that get these few tough games out the way and we can play catch up with a run of easier games rather than sack this clown now.
Problem with that is the team are so devoid of confidence those easier games won't be easy..honestly at moment the only team I fancy us to beat is Hull.
QPR have worst away record in league what's the betting the one away game they win is against us...
-
You know it's bad when you could genuinely hire anyone off the street and it couldn't possibly make the team worse. It is staggering that Lerner doesn't appear to be interested in protecting his investment.
-
Fox talking about Europe in 5 years, I genuinely think there's more chance of being in League 1 in 5 years.
Yeah that interview is beginning to look like a false narrative
There are too many false narratives lately for my liking. We need to find a genuine narrative.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
'Allowed'? Of course we are. Im just not sure there any many candidates.
You could say Eddie Howe but he may swopping leagues with us next season.
A foreign coach is a risk. Pepe Mel anyone.
Laudrup is a good shout and he would come, i think
-
I can only imagine the thinking (yeah tenuous with these clowns in charge) here is that get these few tough games out the way and we can play catch up with a run of easier games rather than sack this clown now.
Problem with that is the team are so devoid of confidence those easier games won't be easy..honestly at moment the only team I fancy us to beat is Hull.
QPR have worst away record in league what's the betting the one away game they win is against us...
Hull?
That will be incredibly tough. They will see that as their winnable game and get them going.
I am struggling to see a win anywhere now.
-
I can only imagine the thinking (yeah tenuous with these clowns in charge) here is that get these few tough games out the way and we can play catch up with a run of easier games rather than sack this clown now.
Problem with that is the team are so devoid of confidence those easier games won't be easy..honestly at moment the only team I fancy us to beat is Hull.
QPR have worst away record in league what's the betting the one away game they win is against us...
Hull?
That will be incredibly tough. They will see that as their winnable game and get them going.
I am struggling to see a win anywhere now.
After chelsea the rest of the month and March has some, in theory, winnable games. April looks very ominious
-
I can only imagine the thinking (yeah tenuous with these clowns in charge) here is that get these few tough games out the way and we can play catch up with a run of easier games rather than sack this clown now.
Problem with that is the team are so devoid of confidence those easier games won't be easy..honestly at moment the only team I fancy us to beat is Hull.
QPR have worst away record in league what's the betting the one away game they win is against us...
Hull?
That will be incredibly tough. They will see that as their winnable game and get them going.
I am struggling to see a win anywhere now.
After chelsea the rest of the month and March has some, in theory, winnable games. April looks very ominious
There aren't any winnable games for us, though.
We keep having batches of them and winning hardly any of them.
Which is why we're going to get relegated, I'm afraid.
-
Ahhh, the old 'winnable games' thing.
There have been loads of those of the last couple of years, including runs of 'winnable games' where we have spectacularly failed to take advantage.
-
Brilliant Cup run?
About the only thing left at the moment to be hopeful about until the next inevitable win or five to stagger to the end of the season. I'm pinning my hopes on Delph's enigmatic 'better things are coming' statement, by the way.
And 4 worse teams.
-
We are a desperately poor side, but that is mainly down to having the worst manager in the league.
-
Sadly, with only 15 games left we need a firefighter to keep us up.
Unless we can find a proven manager who is out of work or who is willing to sacrifice his career to save us we are fucked.
There is of course our current owners ability to appoint the right manager. Lambert came with high expectations except they forgot to ask in the interview 'will you entertain us'? (or even attack).
Today proved his belief in in own bullshit. After beating a B/mouth reserve side he believed that team could take Arsenal. There would be no complaints with a hard working 0-0 today to restore confidence. Yet it was more of the same expecting individuals to produce results rather than a structured team game plan.
-
The whole flicking a coin thing makes me laugh.
Flick a coin and you have a 50/50 chance of getting the outcome you want. Persisting with the current set up is going to get us relegated.
-
The whole flicking a coin thing makes me laugh.
Flick a coin and you have a 50/50 chance of getting the outcome you want. Persisting with the current set up is going to get us relegated.
That's the bizarre thing. This seems like the easiest and most obvious decision in the world. Either you keep the current regime and get relegated or you make a change and there's a chance there will be an improvement.
-
They seem to think they're being clever, that they've stumbled on some genius concept that nobody's ever thought of before. Namely that sticking with the manager even when things are diabolically awful will somehow pay dividends in the long run, as if being nice and loyal somehow raises your chances of long term success.
It's like the General Melchett school of tactics: "Doing exactly what we've done eighteen times before will be the last thing they expect us to do this time!"
-
I hope there's a big orange banner for the Chelsea game that simply reads 'FLICK THE COIN'.
-
In fact, the more I think about it, the more this apparently genius "sticking by the manager will bring long term rewards" strategy resembles the one they adopted when they appointed Lambert, which ran along the lines of "sign cheap young players and they will evolve into superstars and guarantee long-term success". As if that was all it took, and nobody else had ever thought of the idea.
I appreciate the desire to be principled, but we desperately need an injection of hard-headed pragmatism at the club.
-
Flick the fucking thing.
-
has he gone yet?
-
Coins are flipped. Wrists are flicked. Hence, Tom Fox said 'like flipping a coin'.
-
Tom must have had a lovely afternoon going back to Arsenal
-
Tom must have had a lovely afternoon going back to Arsenal
Given the absolute garbage he was spouting to the press last week, which he expects us to lap up, I couldn't give a shit whether he had a nice time today or not.
-
Flick the fucking thing.
Flip Flops!
-
The bloke is clearly a Yes man. Useless
-
I need a dollar dollar, a dollar is what I need
-
With every passing league result, Fox is making it blindingly obvious why Arsenal didn't bust a gut to keep him.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
As ever, the snide comments continue. Here is another of those who knocked people for daring to criticise Lambert and Lerner.
Goodness knows what you're wittering on about. Maybe you've got posters confused as you're fairly new on here.
Assuming that you are fairly new on here and haven't been registered before, obviously.
-
But who do we get in as a replacement?
I think that is part of the problem, there is no obvious successor with prem league experience
Isn't Laudrup available?
Currently managing Lekhwiya in Qatar.
And to Rudy, what does Premier League experience have to do with anything? Are we not allowed to hire a manager without it?
'Allowed'? Of course we are. Im just not sure there any many candidates.
You could say Eddie Howe but he may swopping leagues with us next season.
A foreign coach is a risk. Pepe Mel anyone.
There isn't any managerial appointment we could make who isn't a risk. Laudrup would be a risk. A manager with Premier League experience would be a risk.
Our last five managers have all had Premier League experience and have done jobs ranging from dreadful to average. So they were all clearly risks as well.
-
It's a false narrative, you numpties. We know what's best.
You are paying far to much attention to minor things like results, style of play and attempts to even score a fucking goal. Whereas we look at, er... special data that you couldn't possibly comprehend.
For instance, did you know that we are in the top 7 in the EPL when it comes to coming out of the tunnel on time? That's a helluva effort.
It is paying attention to small details like that that has us fully on course to recapturize the Peace Cup in three to five years.
-
It's a false narrative, you numpties. We know what's best.
You are paying far to much attention to minor things like results, style of play and attempts to even score a fucking goal. Whereas we look at, er... special data that you couldn't possibly comprehend.
For instance, did you know that we are in the top 7 in the EPL when it comes to coming out of the tunnel on time? That's a helluva effort.
It is paying to small details like that that has us fully on course to recapturize the Peace Cup in three to five years.
On penalties after a 0-0 draw I'm guessing.
-
I genuinely have no idea who we could get in and they could end up doing worse. More than one non-Villa fan has said to me recently that on this basis Lambert may as well stay.
BUT (and it's a big but hence the capitals) lack of an alternative is not a good enough reason to keep employing as staggeringly an incompetent buffoon as this manager. Fox's comments looked arrogant, condescending and naive when there was an element of feelgood around in the last week. Now add negligent and moronic.
-
Had Sky News on in the background when I heard "news of a high profile sacking tonight"
..my heart leapt, then they said it was Stuart Pearce. Back to despair.
-
Had Sky News on in the background when I heard "news of a high profile sacking tonight"
..my heart leapt, then they said it was Stuart Pearce. Back to despair.
You'll wake up tomorrow with the news of Lambert being sacked and replaced by Pearce. Back to despair.
-
With every passing league result, Fox is making it blindingly obvious why Arsenal didn't bust a gut to keep him.
We had an ex work colleague come back to say hello once. I didn't notice he had left. I presumed he had popped out for some photo copier toner. I wonder if Foxy got the same reaction today.
-
Would it be too outrageous to guess 'false narrative' originated from the mouth of our slightly odd chairman?
I've seen a few snippets from him, right up his boulevard.
-
Flick that coin noe Fox.
-
Would it be too outrageous to guess 'false narrative' originated from the mouth of our slightly odd chairman?
I've seen a few snippets from him, right up his boulevard.
I would say that is a very good guess.
-
I say flick it
Flick it good
-
itruly haste the modern way of using "narrative" for anything that is just a 'thing'. Winds me up. Anyway, flip that coin.
-
You just know we'd flip a double a double headed coin and call tails.
(Copyright Delboy & Trigger)
-
#FlipTheCoin
-
Flip the fucker you muddyfunster
-
Has he flicked it yet? Mr Fox, if you are reading this, we don't want Lambert any more. Simple enough, yes?
-
Can someone close to VP/BMH please go and hand him a coin?
-
It's flip, not flick. You flip a coin. You flick a bogey.
-
So Fox has no idea about simple English commands? Tell him it's sack not sick...in case he gets it wrong again!
-
I can't see how Fox can think that were doing ok?
-
It's flip, not flick. You flip a coin. You flick a bogey.
You mean one of those grobbly things that get up your nose, become more and more annoying so you wheedle it out and propel it to a place where it can no longer cause problems.
Apply that to Mr Lambert.
I'd definitely be happy with "flick"!
;-)
-
The only thing Lerner is commited to is taking us down
-
It's flip, not flick. You flip a coin. You flick a bogey.
Toss
-
It's flip, not flick. You flip a coin. You flick a bogey.
Or a bean.
-
On the positive side, it's open to a nice range of ready made chants to get the message across.
"Flip the coin! Flip the coin! Flip the coin" to "4 more years" or "'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go."
"We want to flip the coin, said we want to flip the coin"
"All we are saying, is please flip the coin." (Give peace a chance)
"The coin needs flipping, for Claret and Blue"
-
If sacking Lambert would be like flipping a coin, then not sacking him would be akin to chucking said coin in the Trevi Fountain.
Then lobbing your wallet in after it.
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
This. Was singing it myself last night.....
-
It's flip, not flick. You flip a coin. You flick a bogey.
Toss
It's true.
-
Perhaps the penny won't drop with Fox until we are in the bottom three, probably after next weekend.
I wonder if Fox looks at the table and thinks we've got teams below us, we're OK. As was said on BBC on Saturday if you look at the goals for, against and the difference, we are truly the worst in the league for two of them and when the chips are down at the end of the season, we could be done for on these figures.
-
Tom Fox should fit right in at VP. He obviously has all the qualities required of a Randy Lerner Lieutenant i.e. he clearly knows the cubed root of fuck all about football.
-
Perhaps the penny won't drop with Fox until we are in the bottom three, probably after next weekend.
I wonder if Fox looks at the table and thinks we've got teams below us, we're OK. As was said on BBC on Saturday if you look at the goals for, against and the difference, we are truly the worst in the league for two of them and when the chips are down at the end of the season, we could be done for on these figures.
Someone should refer him to the current form table. It doesn't make for good reading, the direction of our momentum is clear.
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
This. Was singing it myself last night.....
It's time for a big f*ck off banner. FLIP THE COIN FOX.
-
I think randy should use a coin on all his decisions, it would probably improve his luck
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
This. Was singing it myself last night.....
It's time for a big f*ck off banner. FLIP THE COIN FOX.
FOR FOX SAKE FLIP THE COIN!
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
This. Was singing it myself last night.....
It's time for a big f*ck off banner. FLIP THE COIN FOX.
FOR FOX SAKE FLIP THE COIN!
...is the winning entry. Anyone got a spare (clean) bed sheet and a can of spray in the garage?
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
This. Was singing it myself last night.....
It's time for a big f*ck off banner. FLIP THE COIN FOX.
FOR FOX SAKE FLIP THE COIN!
...is the winning entry. Anyone got a spare (clean) bed sheet and a can of spray in the garage?
In all seriousness, if anyone can organise a whip round to get something through someone like these, I'll happily donate a a tenner or so to the costs.
A bit difficult to organise from this side of the North Sea, especially collection.
Made By Young People - Socially responsible printing (http://bannerprintingbirmingham.co.uk/index.php/printed-outdoor-banners)
More commercial alternative no. 1 (https://www.printed.com/products/22/banners)
More commercial alternative no. 2 (http://[url=https://www.printed.com/products/22/banners)
-
It's flip, not flick. You flip a coin. You flick a bogey.
Or a bean.
Haha. That's made me chuckle
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
This. Was singing it myself last night.....
It's time for a big f*ck off banner. FLIP THE COIN FOX.
FOR FOX SAKE FLIP THE COIN!
...is the winning entry. Anyone got a spare (clean) bed sheet and a can of spray in the garage?
In all seriousness, if anyone can organise a whip round to get something through someone like these, I'll happily donate a a tenner or so to the costs.
A bit difficult to organise from this side of the North Sea, especially collection.
Made By Young People - Socially responsible printing (http://bannerprintingbirmingham.co.uk/index.php/printed-outdoor-banners)
More commercial alternative no. 1 (https://www.printed.com/products/22/banners)
More commercial alternative no. 2 (http://[url=https://www.printed.com/products/22/banners)
In old Ellis style, we could distribute "Flip the Coin" on A4 pieces of paper ready for when the teams come out.
-
Coins rather than pound signs?
-
Is it ilegal to throw chocolate coins onto the pitch?
-
Everyone dressed as Santa throwing bags of chocolate coins on the pitch?
-
Coins rather than pound signs?
Indeed.
-
Everyone dressed as Santa throwing bags of chocolate coins on the pitch?
If it's not allowed at the pitch maybe the Director's Box is the best alternative. Love the idea of the Santa outfits too. Warm clothes are really on-trend this winter.
-
Think it's time for a chorus of "Flip The Coin my Lord" on Saturday.
I like that idea.
-
I prefer tossing.
-
I prefer tossing.
Mine always ends up on the ceiling.
I have the same problem with pancakes.
-
I prefer tossing.
With everyone joining the "tossing" protest that would certainly grab the media attention. But at least we'd have a few moments of delight at VP!
(My only reservation? Noses and tescobags would say "always knew Vile fans were a load of....")
You providing the tissues BE?
-
Fuck tossing the coin! Just toss Lambert a P45 and toss him out of the club.
-
That should go on a banner Saturday: Fox flip the coin.
-
tom.fox@avfc.co.uk
e-mail 'flip that coin'
To the above!
-
I feel genuinely ashamed.
Just emailed Mr. Tom Fox with a brief paragraph asking for action and questioning his decision to join this sinking ship. Never directly asked for Lambert's sacking, but it could be implied.
-
It's actually more like rolling a die.
We've already rolled a "1" with Lambert. Now there's a chance we could sack him and roll another "1" and get someone just as clueless/useless, but there's a 5/6 chance we'll get someone better.
-
If anyone's of an artistic bent, could they knock up a special Lambert 'coin' which could be printed on A4? Hand them out outside the ground; maybe enough of them might get waved during the game. Admittedly, it's quite pathetic but it might make a more striking spectacle than a dozen people ambling in late after they've heroically had a beer and a pie.
-
I've sent an email for what it's worth.
-
If anyone's of an artistic bent, could they knock up a special Lambert 'coin' which could be printed on A4? Hand them out outside the ground; maybe enough of them might get waved during the game. Admittedly, it's quite pathetic but it might make a more striking spectacle than a dozen people ambling in late after they've heroically had a beer and a pie.
Yes. We can have the paper plane contest again to alleviate the tedium of another defeat.
-
Another flipping email sent.
-
If anyone's of an artistic bent, could they knock up a special Lambert 'coin' which could be printed on A4? Hand them out outside the ground; maybe enough of them might get waved during the game. Admittedly, it's quite pathetic but it might make a more striking spectacle than a dozen people ambling in late after they've heroically had a beer and a pie.
Yes. We can have the paper plane contest again to alleviate the tedium of another defeat.
One might end up in the net, at least.
-
If I could attend the meeting with Fox I'd ask him how they are evaluating the situation - have they anybody within the club with football expertise?
What makes Fox think that he can see on the training pitch something that the fans cannot see on match day?
Do Randy/Fox think they have a better understanding of the game than say Paul Mcgrath, Andy Gray, Bosnich, Withe and Merson? Who all fear relegation.
-
If I get to ask Fox a question it will be how does he justify stating in public that those of us who want Lambert removed from the club are "baying for his blood"?
-
it's the ultra defensive response of a man who knows he's being asked to defend the indefensible, Brian.
-
I have prepared a question that covers that very thing Brian.
-
You could ask him when we're appointing an assistant manager. Every time I remember we still haven't got one it makes me mad, it really is negligence when we're as shite as we are.
-
He needs asking why we have no experienced outfield coaches with the senior side too.
-
He needs asking why we have no experienced outfield coaches with the senior side too.
didn't realise that,no coach,no assistant manager,unbelievable.
-
He needs asking why we have no experienced outfield coaches with the senior side too.
didn't realise that,no coach,no assistant manager,unbelievable.
It's inexcusable, it really is. No coaches for the best part of a year! It's negligence. What, on earth, is the story behind this?
-
He needs asking why we have no experienced outfield coaches with the senior side too.
didn't realise that,no coach,no assistant manager,unbelievable.
It's inexcusable, it really is. No coaches for the best part of a year! It's negligence. What, on earth, is the story behind this?
The narrative ?
-
The story or narrative as current hot shot speak requires us to call it is the saving of money which is Lambert and Fox's self preservation mantra in their relationship with the owner.
-
the three of them are beginning to dwell together in a most unsavoury way.
-
Current coaching regime,
Assistant manager , no one
Scott Marshall, age 41, previous coaching experience youth role at Brentford and 12 months u21 development head at Norwich
Andy Marshall, age 39, previous coaching experience none
-
Current coaching regime,
Assistant manager , no one
Scott Marshall, age 41, previous coaching experience youth role at Brentford and 12 months u21 development head at Norwich
Andy Marshall, age 39, previous coaching experience none
Startling chasm of experience there. What a shambles.
-
According to reports we are looking to restructure the club and appoint a sporting director. The latest I have read on this is that we are after Luke Dowling from Watford. Now, I don't really know much about Dowling, to be honest, but according to the reports he was once a scout for Crystal Palace and worked as head of recruitment for Portsmouth, Leeds and Blackburn. This is a guy very familiar with the Championship but, seemingly, he has zero experience of the Premier League. Looking at Dowling's background, I am struggling to see any notable achievements on his part as head of recruitment at any of the clubs he has worked for. My question is just what the club hope to achieve with this level of appointment?
Rather like the coaching situation described above in aj2k77's post, it would seem we are going down the route of looking for cheap, inexperienced people to fill very important positions. If we are not prepared to seek and invest in the best then we will surely reap what we sow? For me, the buck stops with Randy Lerner, he is winging it on the cheap and gambling with the future of this club.
-
I am now resigned to relegation. With just 15 games to go a team that has scored 7 league goals in 5 months and 2 wins in 19 does not suddenly turn things around.
My big dilemma will be do I attend next season or bail.
-
As the restructuring of the club seemingly doesn’t involve the obvious of removing one of the significant causes of the current situation, Lambert, then having somebody with experience of recruitment in the Championship is ironically forward thinking for a club so bereft of any plan or leadership.
-
Current coaching regime,
Assistant manager , no one
Scott Marshall, age 41, previous coaching experience youth role at Brentford and 12 months u21 development head at Norwich
Andy Marshall, age 39, previous coaching experience none
Startling chasm of experience there. What a shambles.
"Shambles" is the right word. It's just like the situation we were in when Graham Turner was in charge. As Graham Taylor put it back then, there was a "rotten smell" around the club (due to Doug's appalling leadership and mismanagement) and the same cycle -and smell - of incompetence and mismanagement is creeping into Villa Park once more. Unless the Chairman is prepared to be responsible and put realistic money into the club (and appoint suitably qualified and ambitious people) we will continue to fester.
-
I am now resigned to relegation. With just 15 games to go a team that has scored 7 league goals in 5 months and 2 wins in 19 does not suddenly turn things around.
My big dilemma will be do I attend next season or bail.
Despite the negligence of the owner, there's plenty of points to play for and the fans can play a big part in keeping us up. We've got to stick together and make sure the club keeps fighting for every point.
-
If you were forced to come up with one area where Lambert has done well, it would be recruitment. Yes, Luna, Bennett, Bowery were shit, I agree on that front. But most of his 4-5m signings have been good. Recruitment is one area where he can point at least to some good work he has done.
To be looking to build a team around him in any form strikes me as fucking stupid, when he is the bit that needs to go, but to be bringing someone in to do the bit he does best strikes me as extra stupid, even by our established high stupidity standards.
All this working towards the summer stuff strikes me as putting a new roof on the house while the living room is on fire.
-
If you were forced to come up with one area where Lambert has done well, it would be recruitment. Yes, Luna, Bennett, Bowery were shit, I agree on that front. But most of his 4-5m signings have been good. Recruitment is one area where he can point at least to some good work he has done.
To be looking to build a team around him in any form strikes me as fucking stupid, when he is the bit that needs to go, but to be bringing someone in to do the bit he does best strikes me as extra stupid, even by our established high stupidity standards.
All this working towards the summer stuff strikes me as putting a new roof on the house while the living room is on fire.
I believe the DoF has been brought in to help with what Fox thinly disguised as a 'sabermetric' approach. All a bit embarrassing - we're five years behind the curve - and also weird, as the usual assignment of roles between coach and DoF is precisely the other way round.
-
Current coaching regime,
Assistant manager , no one
Scott Marshall, age 41, previous coaching experience youth role at Brentford and 12 months u21 development head at Norwich
Andy Marshall, age 39, previous coaching experience none
Startling chasm of experience there. What a shambles.
How can anyone, regardless of footballing/business knowledge, think that is sufficient to manage a Premier League football club? Sunday morning league sides have more of a backroom staff than that. It's completely beyond belief, bordering on negligence.
-
Current coaching regime,
Assistant manager , no one
Scott Marshall, age 41, previous coaching experience youth role at Brentford and 12 months u21 development head at Norwich
Andy Marshall, age 39, previous coaching experience none
Startling chasm of experience there. What a shambles.
How can anyone, regardless of footballing/business knowledge, think that is sufficient to manage a Premier League football club? Sunday morning league sides have more of a backroom staff than that. It's completely beyond belief, bordering on negligence.
I am the coach and manager of Stafford Rangers Unders 12s - FA level 2 qualified - where do I apply ?
-
I tend to disagree about Lamberts +£4m signings. I'd say the record is indifferent
Vlaar is a crock
Benteke is looking like a one season wonder
Sanchez looks painfully slow and don't speak the lingo
Kozak ? Too soon to say
Not sure about lambert on any level
-
I tend to disagree about Lamberts +£4m signings. I'd say the record is indifferent
Vlaar is a crock
Wasn't before he signed, so that isn't Lambert's fault.
Benteke is looking like a one season wonder
Good grief.
Sanchez looks painfully slow and don't speak the lingo
He was appalling against Arsenal but has otherwise been one of our better players this season.
Kozak ? Too soon to say
He looked pretty good to me until he got really nasty injuries.
-
I tend to disagree about Lamberts +£4m signings. I'd say the record is indifferent
Vlaar is a crock
Benteke is looking like a one season wonder
Sanchez looks painfully slow and don't speak the lingo
Kozak ? Too soon to say
I entirely disagree with all of this. Mostly for the reasons Monty outlined.
-
I tend to disagree about Lamberts +£4m signings. I'd say the record is indifferent
Vlaar is a crock
Benteke is looking like a one season wonder
Sanchez looks painfully slow and don't speak the lingo
Kozak ? Too soon to say
I entirely disagree with all of this. Mostly for the reasons Monty outlined.
Agreed.
-
Vlaar even when fit hasn't been that great, Benteke? Woeful of late, Sanchez same, Kozak hardly played too early to tell.
-
Vlaar has made a big difference to the team when fit. Benteke has been woeful of late, but you can tell he's a quality player. Sanchez had one terrible game, he's been good apart from that. Kozak looked promising.
-
Personally my opinion of Vlaar diminishes with every injury, how on earth did he play 7 games at the WC? If someone was stupid enough to give us money for him in Jan we should have ripped their arm off. He may have played well on occasions for us but he has predominantly been a massive drain on resources. Good riddance this summer.
-
When I first saw Sanchez I liked the look of him BUT , look at the results / performances of late with him as the anchor! It simply does not work.
He is far too slow and pedestrian, gets caught out and often loses the ball.
He IS a massive part of the problem.
-
Part of being a really top player is being available to play. Vlaar is not such a player.
I also have similar concerns about Delph
-
If someone was stupid enough to give us money for him in Jan we should have ripped their arm off.
Benteke is acting like a child who didn't get his way (transfer to a "big club"). Above applies to him as well.
"But who'd score the goals if Villa sold their top striker?"
-
If someone was stupid enough to give us money for him in Jan we should have ripped their arm off.
Benteke is acting like a child who didn't get his way (transfer to a "big club"). Above applies to him as well.
"But who'd score the goals if Villa sold their top striker?"
Agreed, he deserves to be dropped.
-
When I first saw Sanchez I liked the look of him BUT , look at the results / performances of late with him as the anchor! It simply does not work.
He is far too slow and pedestrian, gets caught out and often loses the ball.
He IS a massive part of the problem.
What a load of crap. I think you'll find 11 goals all season is a massive part of the problem, not Sanchez.
-
When I first saw Sanchez I liked the look of him BUT , look at the results / performances of late with him as the anchor! It simply does not work.
He is far too slow and pedestrian, gets caught out and often loses the ball.
He IS a massive part of the problem.
What a load of crap. I think you'll find 11 goals all season is a massive part of the problem, not Sanchez.
The midfield has been a big part of the problem under Lambert, I would not blame Sanchez but I continue to search for what is he trying to do with those players. The more players he throws at it the worse it gets.
-
In as much as the midfield has been a problem, it's not been a problem in Sanchez's department. He (usually) does his bit really well - it's just that nobody's moving ahead of him.
-
If someone was stupid enough to give us money for him in Jan we should have ripped their arm off.
Benteke is acting like a child who didn't get his way (transfer to a "big club"). Above applies to him as well.
"But who'd score the goals if Villa sold their top striker?"
What goals? I'm sure we could have managed 11 goals without him
-
In as much as the midfield has been a problem, it's not been a problem in Sanchez's department. He (usually) does his bit really well - it's just that nobody's moving ahead of him.
I like Sanchez. All right he had a very poor game against Arsenal but at least he showed commitment. I didn't see to much from Delph in that game!
-
In as much as the midfield has been a problem, it's not been a problem in Sanchez's department. He (usually) does his bit really well - it's just that nobody's moving ahead of him.
Occasionally you see Sanchez run with he ball and try to move it quickly and he looks like he can play a bit. But he seems to have this role of sitting deep and pushing it around slowly.
We have got loads of players that can do that but little else.
-
In as much as the midfield has been a problem, it's not been a problem in Sanchez's department. He (usually) does his bit really well - it's just that nobody's moving ahead of him.
Occasionally you see Sanchez run with he ball and try to move it quickly and he looks like he can play a bit. But he seems to have this role of sitting deep and pushing it around slowly.
We have got loads of players that can do that but little else.
He is unspectacular on the ball, but he's more forceful in the tackle and a better interceptor than our other midfielders.
-
In as much as the midfield has been a problem, it's not been a problem in Sanchez's department. He (usually) does his bit really well - it's just that nobody's moving ahead of him.
Occasionally you see Sanchez run with he ball and try to move it quickly and he looks like he can play a bit. But he seems to have this role of sitting deep and pushing it around slowly.
We have got loads of players that can do that but little else.
He is unspectacular on the ball, but he's more forceful in the tackle and a better interceptor than our other midfielders.
I agree and would like to see him do more of it, not just "sitting in" as they say
-
My observation on Sanchez has been since he took on the DCM role in lieu of westwood results have worsened.
This also coincides with cleverly starting every bloody game too.
We looked better with westwood / KEA than we do with Sanchez / Cleverly , not that is saying much.
Point I'm trying to make is things are getting steadily worse.
-
My observation on Sanchez has been since he took on the DCM role in lieu of westwood results have worsened.
This also coincides with cleverly starting every bloody game too.
We looked better with westwood / KEA than we do with Sanchez / Cleverly , not that is saying much.
Point I'm trying to make is things are getting steadily worse.
So, in your first post, you blame Sanchez.
-
I think we all know where the problems start and end. Seemingly only a select few don't, however ultimately it's only their view that matters.
-
I tend to disagree about Lamberts +£4m signings. I'd say the record is indifferent
Vlaar is a crock
Benteke is looking like a one season wonder
Sanchez looks painfully slow and don't speak the lingo
Kozak ? Too soon to say
I entirely disagree with all of this. Mostly for the reasons Monty outlined.
Agreed.
Guzan, Vlaar, Sanchez and Benteke would be an excellent spine of a good side. They need a decent manager and a bit more quality around them. Can you imagine Vlaar next to McGrath, Teale, Ugo, Southgate, Mellberg or Laursen? Benteke next to Platt, Yorke, Saunders or Merson?
-
Sanchez playing defensive midfield has not made us worse at all, he's a good player. Our problems started way before then and our issue is our inability to score goals.
-
Sanchez playing defensive midfield has not made us worse at all, he's a good player. Our problems started way before then and our issue is our inability to score goals.
He is so slow. He slows the ball down too much.
-
He needs to be the water carrier, win the ball and deliver to a more 'creative' playmaker. He does slow our attacks down although to be fair does not have a lot of movement in front of him.
-
Sanchez playing defensive midfield has not made us worse at all, he's a good player. Our problems started way before then and our issue is our inability to score goals.
He is so slow. He slows the ball down too much.
Nonsense. Forgeting the Arsenal game where he had a real stinker, he's been our best outfield player for the last 5 or 6 games. His pass completion is in the 90s, he's been dominating the midfield, the problem is others around him are also covering his patch. WTF Delph thinks he's doing playing so deep, I've no idea. There are acres of space in front of him but he drifts back to take a pass and then either return it to Sanchez or try one of his Hollywood passes.
Delph is at his best when he's running with the ball for for some unknown reason (I can guess) he's not being used to his strengths. The less said about Cleverly the better but to lay the blame at Sanchez is ridiculous.
-
It's an observation. He dramatically slows the ball down so you have to counter that with all the good work he does (which I've acknowledged ).
It's one of them.
-
It's an observation. He dramatically slows the ball down so you have to counter that with all the good work he does (which I've acknowledged ).
It's one of them.
He slows the ball down whilst he waits for movement which doesn't come because we don't train players to move off the ball and make themselves available to dangerous areas. Look how often Sanchez takes 2 or 3 looks and then carries the ball himself or passes back to a defender, it's ridiculous. His poor game on Sunday was actually entirely due to him trying to do something different and spray balls in behind the fullbacks which clearly isn't natural to him.
The movement off the ball is why this 'new style' has always been a bit of "moving the deckchairs" exercise for a possession game to work at some point you need to find gaps and players standing still don't create those unless you've got a genius conducting things and all the players have supreme confidence in him.
Barca from a few years ago are a great example in both regards. I said at the time when they were winning everything that Xavi was the key to it and their drop in form in the last couple of years has coincided with Xavi no longer being able to play all game every game (and ditto Spains fall from grace). The reason was that he had the vision to spot where a gap may form and then play passes to open it up and all the team knew to follow his lead and move where he wanted them, he's comfortably the best 'conductor' in my time watching football, it was almost like he was playing on a board and playing 2-3 moves in advance. On top of that Iniesta had/has a fantastic knack of sneaking into space all over the pitch and offering an option, he just seemed to be available all the time when they were really at their best under Guardiola.
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
-
i've noticed on several occasions in even the short time that he has been here, that Carles Gil finds himself looking to play a ball into space where he'd reasonably expect to see one of our players moving, only to see nobody moving anywhere near it.
You see the same thing with Sanchez.
The likes of Sanchez and Gil are our best players, technically. If they look poor then it is almost always down to the fact that the rest of the squad seem to have been coached to play a different sport entirely, let alone a different way.
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
Quite right! Sanchez is very watchable. He is a very good signing at that price. He covers for others all over the pitch.
-
i've noticed on several occasions in even the short time that he has been here, that Carles Gil finds himself looking to play a ball into space where he'd reasonably expect to see one of our players moving, only to see nobody moving anywhere near it.
You see the same thing with Sanchez.
The likes of Sanchez and Gil are our best players, technically. If they look poor then it is almost always down to the fact that the rest of the squad seem to have been coached to play a different sport entirely, let alone a different way.
I noticed that on Sunday with Sanchez, yes he had his worse game, but there was a point in the first half where he had the ball looking for a forward pass and there was no movement in front of him, so he gave a backwards pass and threw his hands up in the air. Gil has shown that he can find little areas of space, he shown more movement in the 2 games he has played than the front line has all season.
-
Sanchez has nearly 60 caps for a very talented Colombia side, one in which he can look up and see the likes of Martinez, Falcao and Rodriguez moving ahead of him. Compare that to looking up and seeing our statues. Is it any wonder he often considers the best option is the pass sideways or backwards, just to retain possession? Lambert identified a very, very good player, but can't deploy him properly. I feel the onus is on Gil to force the issue in games himself, whatever position he may be picked in, otherwise I fear he'll have his natural game stifled to death by our "coaching", and a gifted player will end up consigned to the side-notes of bit-players in our history.
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
I'm not giving him stick. I'm saying he is very slow with the ball and trying to understand how we can look worse now in midfield than we did last season which I tell you is no mean feet.
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
I'm not giving him stick. I'm saying he is very slow with the ball and trying to understand how we can look worse now in midfield than we did last season which I tell you is no mean feet.
I'll hazard a guess that going from shite coaching to no coaching, meaning that the minimal movement from last season has been replaced by some form of playing statues might have something to do with it.
Our forward movement would make the bastard love child of Sid, Pirlo and Maradona look shit.
-
Cleverly doesn't help. He's a downgrade on both Holman and KEA. Delph needs to sit 8-10 yards further forward rather than parallel to Sanchez . With Gil and Sinclair on board now the midfield should have a different dimension.
-
Cleverly doesn't help. He's a downgrade on both Holman and KEA. Delph needs to sit 8-10 yards further forward rather than parallel to Sanchez . With Gil and Sinclair on board now the midfield should have a different dimension.
I agree about Delph, he needs to be closer to the front, he has quick feet and a quick brain, could work well closer to Gil. He needs to get Cleverley out of the team.
-
The lead up to the 2nd goal on Sunday sums us up.
Richardson carries the ball forward from left back and moves inside looking to pass it to a midfielder or forward. No one shows themselves/makes themselves available. No Villa player wants the ball!
Arse player sees he is now struggling and isolated, nicks it off him and within 3 passes they've scored.
I'd bollock the Under 12s if they did that.
We do it all the time.
Agree with some of the comments on here - Delph needs to be further forward (I think the whole team needs to be further forward), Sanchez to focus on his defensive role/swap with Westwood.
Cleverley needs to practise wearing a blue shirt if Everton are so desperate to sign him!!!
-
The lead up to the 2nd goal on Sunday sums us up.
Richardson carries the ball forward from left back and moves inside looking to pass it to a midfielder or forward. No one shows themselves/makes themselves available. No Villa player wants the ball!
Arse player sees he is now struggling and isolated, nicks it off him and within 3 passes they've scored.
I'd bollock the Under 12s if they did that.
We do it all the time.
Agree with some of the comments on here - Delph needs to be further forward (I think the whole team needs to be further forward), Sanchez to focus on his defensive role/swap with Westwood.
Cleverley needs to practise wearing a blue shirt if Everton are so desperate to sign him!!!
Outstanding tactics. Getting him in to Chelsea's starting 11will definitely improve our chances. B-)
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
I'm not giving him stick.
Yes you are, you said yesterday that he is a 'massive part of the problem'. That sounds like stick to me.
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
I'm not giving him stick.
Yes you are, you said yesterday that he is a 'massive part of the problem'. That sounds like stick to me.
Yes in the sense he slows the ball down too much . That's not stick , that's a factual statement .
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
I'm not giving him stick.
Yes you are, you said yesterday that he is a 'massive part of the problem'. That sounds like stick to me.
Yes in the sense he slows the ball down too much . That's not stick , that's a factual statement .
No, that's an opinion.
-
He dosen't slow the game down at all. He was awful on Sunday but I was watching him and he saw more of the ball than any other Villa player. Once he's played it, he makes sure he moves into space to get the ball again. It's what good players do. SillihVilla is entitled to his opinion but he's wrong. I can think of other players who are more deserving of stick.
I'm not giving him stick.
Yes you are, you said yesterday that he is a 'massive part of the problem'. That sounds like stick to me.
Yes in the sense he slows the ball down too much . That's not stick , that's a factual statement .
What Dave said.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
-
And even in his "defensive" role he still seems to have a better attack-minded look about him than our other midfielders. He looks for the telling ball - eg to Benteke v Blackpool. Something different/creative.
Unfortunately, most of our players have no idea what the f**k he's doing when he plays it forward.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
I like certain aspects to his game .
At present he doesn't have a premier league pulse to his game . That will probably come with time .
-
The lead up to the 2nd goal on Sunday sums us up.
Richardson carries the ball forward from left back and moves inside looking to pass it to a midfielder or forward. No one shows themselves/makes themselves available. No Villa player wants the ball!
Arse player sees he is now struggling and isolated, nicks it off him and within 3 passes they've scored.
I'd bollock the Under 12s if they did that.
We do it all the time.
Agree with some of the comments on here - Delph needs to be further forward (I think the whole team needs to be further forward), Sanchez to focus on his defensive role/swap with Westwood.
Cleverley needs to practise wearing a blue shirt if Everton are so desperate to sign him!!!
Outstanding tactics. Getting him in to Chelsea's starting 11will definitely improve our chances. B-)
B-!
A* by previous standards!
I'll tell me dad!
:D
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
I like certain aspects to his game .
At present he doesn't have a premier league pulse to his game . That will probably come with time .
So, who would you play in his place then?
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
I like certain aspects to his game .
At present he doesn't have a premier league pulse to his game . That will probably come with time .
So, who would you play in his place then?
The only other viable option is Westwood I'd say . Delph is wasted sat too deep. Ciaran Clark can play DCM but I doubt he has a range of pass.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
I like certain aspects to his game .
At present he doesn't have a premier league pulse to his game . That will probably come with time .
So, who would you play in his place then?
The only other viable option is Westwood I'd say . Delph is wasted sat too deep. Ciaran Clark can play DCM but I doubt he has a range of pass.
Ahh, Westwood. Massive problem solved. Just need to score some goals now then.
-
Midfield for me should be Sanchez sitting, Delph and Bacuna ahead and support the full backs on either side and then Gil and Weimann buzzing around in front of them.
-
The lead up to the 2nd goal on Sunday sums us up.
Richardson carries the ball forward from left back and moves inside looking to pass it to a midfielder or forward. No one shows themselves/makes themselves available. No Villa player wants the ball!
Arse player sees he is now struggling and isolated, nicks it off him and within 3 passes they've scored.
I'd bollock the Under 12s if they did that.
We do it all the time.
Agree with some of the comments on here - Delph needs to be further forward (I think the whole team needs to be further forward), Sanchez to focus on his defensive role/swap with Westwood.
Cleverley needs to practise wearing a blue shirt if Everton are so desperate to sign him!!!
Outstanding tactics. Getting him in to Chelsea's starting 11will definitely improve our chances. B-)
B-!
A* by previous standards!
I'll tell me dad!
:D
Sorry Frank's nephew.
For some reason I can't do smilies from my phone. (Dashes over to little things that make life annoying thread.)
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
You won't like him next year. Get used to it, huh?
-
Understand now ViD!
Sorry, 37 years of grading students' work has made me a little sensitive to capital letters and +/-!
;-)
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
You won't like him next year. Get used to it, huh?
Ah, you're picking on me now then.
Haven't you got a dying forum to save?
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
You won't like him next year. Get used to it, huh?
Blimey, Skippy, have you really not got anything better to do, huh?
-
Midfield for me should be Sanchez sitting, Delph and Bacuna ahead and support the full backs on either side and then Gil and Weimann buzzing around in front of them.
Pretty much agree. For me, our best XI would have Sanchez, Delph, Gil and Bacuna in it. And Bacuna would certainly be in midfield and not defence/wing back.
-
Going back to the original point I was looking at the top 5 and see Southampton and Spurs there. I wish Fox would take a look at what Southampton did 3 years ago. They realised Adkins wasn't up to the job and had obviously done a bit of research or had a bit of knowledge amongst the owners, and were able to identify a coach who could improve them. As Pochettino duly did. When he jumped ship, they did the same again bringing in Koeman. Who has improved them again despite losing half the first choice players. Both coaches sitting pretty in the top five without a shred of PL experience between them previously.
Swansea have also managed to bring in a succession of decent coaches who maintained their decent level, whilst also recognising when it wasn't working or had gone as far is it could (Laudrup).
An on the other side of the coin we have Lambert, two and a half seasons into his "project" still looking utterly clueless as to what he is trying to achieve.
The point being that it is absolutely nothing like flipping a coin if you have people on the board with an iota of a clue about football. And if Fox genuinely believes that it is down to pot luck then he is just typical of the football fuckwittery that Lerner has consistently surrounded himself with.
-
Swansea have been consistently successful at replacing managers, both when choosing to make a change and also when being forced to replace managers. Southampton's success goes back from Koeman and Pochettino to Adkins, who took them up two divisions and whom they then replaced well at the right time even though to most outsiders and even Southampton fans change wasn't necessary.
-
Sorry yes it's an opinion. Just to reiterate I am not knocking Sanchez as I have said previously I like how he holds his position and does a lot of decent "grunt" work. The slowness on the ball is probably as he has so little options ahead of him. He is aswell still adapting to the pace of the league.
So you've gone from calling him 'a massive part of the problem' to liking him. Make your mind up.
At present he's too slow and a big part of the problem.
So, you don't like him then.
Thought we looked better without him today. Westwood recycled the ball with pace and forwards.
-
I think we look better with Westwood, but I'd rather have Sanchez in the team than Cleverley.
-
I think we look better with Westwood, but I'd rather have Sanchez in the team than Cleverley.
Therein lieth the problem because you cannot play Westwood & Sanchez in the same XI
I'm no cleverly fan but I thought that was his best game for us today .
-
I think you can have Westwood and Sanchez in the same team - it's a fairly classic stopper-passer 2 in the 4-2-3-1 - with Delph further forward, where he plays his best football. They can all do something, apart from Cleverley.
-
I think you can have Westwood and Sanchez in the same team - it's a fairly classic stopper-passer 2 in the 4-2-3-1 - with Delph further forward, where he plays his best football. They can all do something, apart from Cleverley.
I've thought that would be the ideal deployment since we signed Sanchez, it seems the best use of each players best attributes.
-
But obviously it would break the contractual agreement whereby Cleverley has to play at least an hour of every game or United are permitted by international law to invade B6.
-
It's ridiculous. Such a poor record would set alarm bells ringing at any other club. With us we get comments like we're improving and we were excellent. Comments that don't match reality.
-
I think you can have Westwood and Sanchez in the same team - it's a fairly classic stopper-passer 2 in the 4-2-3-1 - with Delph further forward, where he plays his best football. They can all do something, apart from Cleverley.
I've thought that would be the ideal deployment since we signed Sanchez, it seems the best use of each players best attributes.
Count me in on that plan too.
-
I think you can have Westwood and Sanchez in the same team - it's a fairly classic stopper-passer 2 in the 4-2-3-1 - with Delph further forward, where he plays his best football. They can all do something, apart from Cleverley.
I've thought that would be the ideal deployment since we signed Sanchez, it seems the best use of each players best attributes.
Count me in on that plan too.
Given how obvious it appears to anyone on the outside you have to worry that we've never even tried it.
-
Swansea have been consistently successful at replacing managers, both when choosing to make a change and also when being forced to replace managers. Southampton's success goes back from Koeman and Pochettino to Adkins, who took them up two divisions and whom they then replaced well at the right time even though to most outsiders and even Southampton fans change wasn't necessary.
Absolutely bang on mate. Especially the last sentence, I remember laughing at them for sacking Adkins and bringing in some random Argentinian fella, in fact I said that would definitely see them relegated at the time. That's what you call a board with their finger on the pulse. I think Fox has got away with murder with this 'flip a coin' comment, I even bought it myself at first, but actually it's bollocks. If you know the game then you know who to bring in to implement whatever strategy you're laying down. If there's no strategy and you're pissing in the wind then yes...it's like flipping a coin. Worrying times, and disappointing as I really thought Fox was the first good thing Lerner had done for a while.
-
I think we look better with Westwood, but I'd rather have Sanchez in the team than Cleverley.
Cleverley really is gash. He's nowhere near as good a player as Sanchez.
-
Seriously, re Cleverley, are we absolutely sure there isn't some "I MUST PLAY' clause going on?
It just seems nuts. Week after week, he starts. Week after week, he looks awful.
-
Much as I like Sanchez, I would have done a better job than him last Sunday at Arsenal, he was awful
-
Seriously, re Cleverley, are we absolutely sure there isn't some "I MUST PLAY' clause going on?
It just seems nuts. Week after week, he starts. Week after week, he looks awful.
There can't be. After all, if he didn't play what could they do - demand him back?
-
Seriously, re Cleverley, are we absolutely sure there isn't some "I MUST PLAY' clause going on?
It just seems nuts. Week after week, he starts. Week after week, he looks awful.
There can't be. After all, if he didn't play what could they do - demand him back?
Demand some financial penalty? As laid down in the loan deal?
I honestly don't know, but I can't see any reason for him to start every match. I know the manager is a clueless chancer, but even saying that, I wonder if he's clueless enough to have developed this Cleverley fixation alone.
-
He played okay today after a shaky start.
-
Seriously, re Cleverley, are we absolutely sure there isn't some "I MUST PLAY' clause going on?
It just seems nuts. Week after week, he starts. Week after week, he looks awful.
There can't be. After all, if he didn't play what could they do - demand him back?
Demand some financial penalty? As laid down in the loan deal?
I honestly don't know, but I can't see any reason for him to start every match. I know the manager is a clueless chancer, but even saying that, I wonder if he's clueless enough to have developed this Cleverley fixation alone.
I've never heard of such a clause so it's unlikely. Some managers just like a player for whatever reason.
-
Perhaps that he himself chose him and, doesn't like his judgement questioned, ha! It happens. It's funny but, how come so many of us know-nothing's could see this yet, someone who is paid a kings ransome couldn't and still believes his judgement is sound despite evidence to the contrary? It's late and I'm just in from the pub and shouldn't really be posting but, it's annoying.
I've a long day in front of me tomorrow so should be in bed!
-
I struggle to remember a player having so little impact. Cleverley is beyond garbage and steals a living as a top flight player.
-
Cleverley is no better than Westwood. He's a waste of a shirt, something we can ill afford right now.
-
Seriously, re Cleverley, are we absolutely sure there isn't some "I MUST PLAY' clause going on?
It just seems nuts. Week after week, he starts. Week after week, he looks awful.
There can't be. After all, if he didn't play what could they do - demand him back?
Demand some financial penalty? As laid down in the loan deal?
I honestly don't know, but I can't see any reason for him to start every match. I know the manager is a clueless chancer, but even saying that, I wonder if he's clueless enough to have developed this Cleverley fixation alone.
I've never heard of such a clause so it's unlikely. Some managers just like a player for whatever reason.
It is odd that he's the only central midfielder other than Delph not to have been dropped so far. I don't get what he brings to the side to be honest.
-
There simply has to be a 'must play' clause or agreement, it would explain Cleverleys last minute change of heart to join and his continued presence in the team despite his performances.
That said he did well yesterday.
-
Cleverley is no better than Westwood. He's a waste of a shirt, something we can ill afford right now.
Westwood had a good game in my opinion yesterday .
-
There might be a must be played clause in cleverly's contract whilst on loan. Maybe?
-
Any manager agreeing to 'a must play' term in a contract needs seriously questioning.
I'm sure Lambert's done a lot wrong but agreeing to that? Surely not?
-
It's telling that when he is brought off it's because we need a goal and need to be more attacking.So does that confirm he is deployed to play in a deep role?Does that also mean we start every game in a defensive mode?
He scored goals as an attacking midfielder so why is he not getting in the box.I don't think he is a world beater but he is being used incorrectly.
-
Seriously, re Cleverley, are we absolutely sure there isn't some "I MUST PLAY' clause going on?
It just seems nuts. Week after week, he starts. Week after week, he looks awful.
There can't be. After all, if he didn't play what could they do - demand him back?
Demand some financial penalty? As laid down in the loan deal?
I honestly don't know, but I can't see any reason for him to start every match. I know the manager is a clueless chancer, but even saying that, I wonder if he's clueless enough to have developed this Cleverley fixation alone.
I've never heard of such a clause so it's unlikely. Some managers just like a player for whatever reason.
It is odd that he's the only central midfielder other than Delph not to have been dropped so far. I don't get what he brings to the side to be honest.
I think Klinnsman had such a clause in his contract when he went back to spurs.
-
I started thinking there was some sort of clause in his contract when he was played on the right wing earlier in the season but after seeing Sanchez dropped yesterday and Cleverley start I'm now convinced.
Probably not a 'must play' clause but probably a clause which increases the loan fee every time he doesn't start when fit.
-
Whatever you think of Cleverley, him and Westwood can't play in the same side.
-
Cleverley is competent enough without setting the world alight. I think he'd look better in a team with a better shape. Mind you, that goes for all our players.
As it is, Lambert's fixated on having his three central mids occupy the same 20 square feet of grass, with the result that they frequently have no passing options and even more frequently just end up getting in each other's way. The shape of the side is bollocks, and has been almost ever since Lambert took over. For a start, one of those three midfielders needs to go and stand 15 yards in front of the other two, and make late runs into the box.
We all wondered why he brought in Cleverley when it was clear we needed an attacking midfielder. We were right to wonder, as it turns out. The man has the tactical acumen of a stool sample.
-
I think Lambert wants to play Cleverley as much as possible to try and persuade him to join us in the summer. To be fair I think that his performances are limiting his movement possibilities in the summer so I shouldn't worry too much about dropping him.
-
Whatever you think of Cleverley, him and Westwood can't play in the same side.
Nor does a Westwood / Sanchez combo work
-
Whatever you think of Cleverley, him and Westwood can't play in the same side.
Nor does a Westwood / Sanchez combo work
Straightforwardly wrong. It's a classic match of styles.
-
Whatever you think of Cleverley, him and Westwood can't play in the same side.
Nor does a Westwood / Sanchez combo work
Straightforwardly wrong. It's a classic match of styles.
Take it easy Monts, these are matters of opinion.
-
Fair enough, that does look a bit more strident than I meant it. How about 'straightforwardly wrong I think'? *winky whatnot*
-
Whatever you think of Cleverley, him and Westwood can't play in the same side.
Nor does a Westwood / Sanchez combo work
Straightforwardly wrong. It's a classic match of styles.
Take it easy Monts, these are matters of opinion.
Nope, Montys right.
-
Nope, Montys right.
Straightforwardly right or just vanilla right? I wasn't actually debating whether he's correct or not.
-
Nope, Montys right.
Straightforwardly right or just vanilla right?
I'm not sure I know the difference!
-
Sanchez and westwood, as someone mentioned earlier, is a classic stopper-passer combo. It would just be making sure that Westoods passing becomes more forward thinking and 'defence splitting'.
-------------- Sanchez -------Westwood-----------
Gil-----------------------Delph---------------------Sinclair
---------------------------Benteke--------------------------
I don't even know if Delph can be as effective further up field, but I'd atleast like to see it tried. What's being tried at the moment with everyone hugging each other is pointless.
I've put Sinclair there not having any idea how good he is anymore. Maybe Grealish but he won't get much of a chance. N'zogbia is perfect (insert maniacal laughter). Bacuna? God knows, just try something.
I'm not deluded though. I fully expect cleverley starting every game.
-
I think Delph has the engine to break from midfield into the box and be able to recover defensively.
-
I think Delph has the engine to break from midfield into the box and be able to recover defensively.
yep I think giving him a free role is not a bad shout.
-
I'm not sure about an entirely free role, but certainly more like Lampard had at Chelsea, ie the guy whose actual job it is to make runs into the area.
-
Sanchez and westwood, as someone mentioned earlier, is a classic stopper-passer combo. It would just be making sure that Westoods passing becomes more forward thinking and 'defence splitting'.
-------------- Sanchez -------Westwood-----------
Gil-----------------------Delph---------------------Sinclair
---------------------------Benteke--------------------------
I don't even know if Delph can be as effective further up field, but I'd atleast like to see it tried. What's being tried at the moment with everyone hugging each other is pointless.
I've put Sinclair there not having any idea how good he is anymore. Maybe Grealish but he won't get much of a chance. N'zogbia is perfect (insert maniacal laughter). Bacuna? God knows, just try something.
I'm not deluded though. I fully expect cleverley starting every game.
I was thinking about that formation earlier. It has become clear to me that both Gabby and Weimann can only play in their main position. Gabby has become very limited in that you have to knock the ball in front of him and let him chase it, a bit like school football. He does not think quick enough to move into space. Weimann looks as though he is working hard when he drops deep. He is working hard but he drops too deep and lacks the ability/touch to turn with the ball, so just plays it back but does not have the pace to get into the position he should be in to take a return ball or the second ball in a triangle. Weimann should only be played as a second forward.
The problem I have with Westwood is his lack of pace with and without the ball, his lightness in the tackle and his wanting to drop too deep to take the ball off the defenders or Guzan. By dropping so deep it just allows the opposition to reform. He then lacks pace to move forward with ball and draw/commit players before passing. Sanchez is far better at breaking up play, although he can be careless with his passing when he tries to do too much. One problem with playing both is that they are both essentially slightly right of centre players.
Sinclair was a better player than being a player told to stick on the touchline as he has when he came on yesterday and Arsenal. Playing this way just makes it easier for a fullback.
With that formation I would be encouraging Gil and Sinclair to get closer to Benteke to pull defenders and midfield players deeper to create space for Delph.
Having said all of that, there is a much chance of this happening as finding that bomber on the moon.
-
Feels like we should change the name of this thread...no-one seems interested in discussing Tom and his coin flicking any more!
-
I started thinking there was some sort of clause in his contract when he was played on the right wing earlier in the season but after seeing Sanchez dropped yesterday and Cleverley start I'm now convinced.
Probably not a 'must play' clause but probably a clause which increases the loan fee every time he doesn't start when fit.
Then we should sub him as soon as the ball goes out of play for the first time.
-
Another loss but still above the bottom three. Splendid, no need to flick the coin.
-
Whatever you think of Cleverley, him and Westwood can't play in the same side.
Nor does a Westwood / Sanchez combo work
Straightforwardly wrong. It's a classic match of styles.
They've played together we all witnessed it, it's plainly a bad fit.
-
I think you just have it in for Sanchez.
-
I think you just have it in for Sanchez.
I think we will see the best of him next season once he's adapted to the pace of the game here.
-
We all witnessed it, and yet you're the only one who seems to have drawn the conclusion that it can't work. Not that this means you're wrong, just that you can hardly invoke the 'we all saw it not work' argument, as most people disagree with you.
I agree on the latter point - when he's really up to speed, he'll be very good for us.
-
I think you just have it in for Sanchez.
I think we will see the best of him next season once he's adapted to the pace of the game here.
Make your mind up? Do you like him nor not? I seriously don't think you have a clue really.
-
As said before, I quite like that shape, theoretically it uses the strengths of all of those players as a 4231, the only issue is that it can become 451 a bit too easily and leave Benteke isolated, which is largely what's happened this season.
The other option is to go more 433 but in a proper shape rather than strung across the pitch, so:
-----------------Sanchez-------------------
-----Bacuna--------------------Delph-----
-------------Gil------Weimann-------------
-----------------Benteke-------------------
Gil gets a free role to wander looking for space and Weimann gets encouraged to give an option for a 1-2 but also stay fairly close to Benteke and look to get into the box. Defensively Bacuna and Delph drop into a line with Sanchez and Weimann, Gil and Benteke form another 3 and put pressure on the defenders and deeper midfielders. Weimann and Gil have a lot of responsibility to make themselves options in the middle and the fullbacks would still need to try to get beyond them and give an option.
-
As said before, I quite like that shape, theoretically it uses the strengths of all of those players as a 4231, the only issue is that it can become 451 a bit too easily and leave Benteke isolated, which is largely what's happened this season.
The other option is to go more 433 but in a proper shape rather than strung across the pitch, so:
-----------------Sanchez-------------------
-----Bacuna--------------------Delph-----
-------------Gil------Weimann-------------
-----------------Benteke-------------------
Gil gets a free role to wander looking for space and Weimann gets encouraged to give an option for a 1-2 but also stay fairly close to Benteke and look to get into the box. Defensively Bacuna and Delph drop into a line with Sanchez and Weimann, Gil and Benteke form another 3 and put pressure on the defenders and deeper midfielders. Weimann and Gil have a lot of responsibility to make themselves options in the middle and the fullbacks would still need to try to get beyond them and give an option.
That formation would give us even less width than we have now.
-
I struggle to remember a player having so little impact. Cleverley is beyond garbage and steals a living as a top flight player.
The case for the defence offers Stephen Ireland as a worse example.
However in a just society both these two (and a whole host of others) would be earning a living cleaning streets instead.
-
I always thought Ireland tended to look like he was about to do something worthwhile. Cleverley doesn't. Still the same end product (or lack of to be precise) with both of them though.
-
You could argue that makes Ireland even worse.
At least with Cleverly, expectations are so low, any positive involvement is a bonus.
Ireland was just permanent disappointment.
-
As said before, I quite like that shape, theoretically it uses the strengths of all of those players as a 4231, the only issue is that it can become 451 a bit too easily and leave Benteke isolated, which is largely what's happened this season.
The other option is to go more 433 but in a proper shape rather than strung across the pitch, so:
-----------------Sanchez-------------------
-----Bacuna--------------------Delph-----
-------------Gil------Weimann-------------
-----------------Benteke-------------------
Gil gets a free role to wander looking for space and Weimann gets encouraged to give an option for a 1-2 but also stay fairly close to Benteke and look to get into the box. Defensively Bacuna and Delph drop into a line with Sanchez and Weimann, Gil and Benteke form another 3 and put pressure on the defenders and deeper midfielders. Weimann and Gil have a lot of responsibility to make themselves options in the middle and the fullbacks would still need to try to get beyond them and give an option.
That formation would give us even less width than we have now.
How so? The idea is that Delph and Bacuna can both drift out wide and provide width/support for the fullback and Gil is always looking to go out and offer himself out wide.
-
As said before, I quite like that shape, theoretically it uses the strengths of all of those players as a 4231, the only issue is that it can become 451 a bit too easily and leave Benteke isolated, which is largely what's happened this season.
The other option is to go more 433 but in a proper shape rather than strung across the pitch, so:
-----------------Sanchez-------------------
-----Bacuna--------------------Delph-----
-------------Gil------Weimann-------------
-----------------Benteke-------------------
Gil gets a free role to wander looking for space and Weimann gets encouraged to give an option for a 1-2 but also stay fairly close to Benteke and look to get into the box. Defensively Bacuna and Delph drop into a line with Sanchez and Weimann, Gil and Benteke form another 3 and put pressure on the defenders and deeper midfielders. Weimann and Gil have a lot of responsibility to make themselves options in the middle and the fullbacks would still need to try to get beyond them and give an option.
That formation would give us even less width than we have now.
How so? The idea is that Delph and Bacuna can both drift out wide and provide width/support for the fullback and Gil is always looking to go out and offer himself out wide.
I just think that Delph and Bacuna are both naturally central players so they wouldn't tend to drift out wide much at all, certainly not to offer a pass out wide.
That coupled with telling Gil and Wiemann to play narrower than they currently do would make it even narrower.
-
Lots of different line up suggestions on here. The last time I saw so many shapes thrown into one place was on a dance floor.
-
I'm not sure about an entirely free role, but certainly more like Lampard had at Chelsea, ie the guy whose actual job it is to make runs into the area.
Technically, or sheer pace, Lampard aint all that, but his engine and ability to get into the box (a la Platt) is/was what made him great.
It would be daft not to offer Delph a similar role, especially as we have a ready made cushion of Sanchez and Westwood to sit behind him.
-
It really tickles me when people talk about formations and suchlike.
Firstly, remember who us picking the team and sending them out.
Secondly, does it really matter?
Seems to me that formations and statistics are something that the 'modern' game has decided is more important than desire and ability, and more often than not is blamed for poor results and performances.
-
At least with Cleverly, expectations are so low, any positive involvement is a bonus.
Ireland was just permanent disappointment.
He managed to win player of the year. But I do agree he was overall a massive waste of money
-
I'm not sure about an entirely free role, but certainly more like Lampard had at Chelsea, ie the guy whose actual job it is to make runs into the area.
Technically, or sheer pace, Lampard aint all that, but his engine and ability to get into the box (a la Platt) is/was what made him great.
It would be daft not to offer Delph a similar role, especially as we have a ready made cushion of Sanchez and Westwood to sit behind him.
Exactly. If Lambert must insist on playing 3 central midfielders, don't tell them all to be defensive midfielders. They also need to stop fearing the forward pass - the amount of sideways and backwards passing you see at the Villa makes me think Lambert's got Stuart Lancaster in helping out as a temporary coach.
-
I actually think Lampard had better technique than Gerrard, who always looks quite clunky on the ball, but it's true that he was no Manuel Rui Costa. What he had was energy and intelligence. Delph needs to develop the latter but he has the former, and frankly he's also got more burst and thrust than Lampard ever had (though not as much as Gerrard).
-
At least with Cleverly, expectations are so low, any positive involvement is a bonus.
Ireland was just permanent disappointment.
He managed to win player of the year. But I do agree he was overall a massive waste of money
Wasn't that based on the fact he'd won most Man of the Match awards (which was something like 3 across the season)?
-
I actually think Lampard had better technique than Gerrard, who always looks quite clunky on the ball, but it's true that he was no Manuel Rui Costa. What he had was energy and intelligence. Delph needs to develop the latter but he has the former, and frankly he's also got more burst and thrust than Lampard ever had (though not as much as Gerrard).
I agree, Gerrard has, in my opinion, pretty ropey technique but he's got a decent long pass and shot on him and he's a fantastic athlete, it's why I've always thought he'd be better suited to fullback at international level.
-
Lots of different line up suggestions on here. The last time I saw so many shapes thrown into one place was on a dance floor.
Dreaming of (attempts at) change Damo.
Dreeeeeamer. Nothing but a dreeeeeamer.
I know it's 50/50 but i must have lost over 90% of my coin flips. Always used to do it with my bro to decide who did the washing up etc ... i was barely out the bloody kitchen.
-
I actually think Lampard had better technique than Gerrard, who always looks quite clunky on the ball, but it's true that he was no Manuel Rui Costa. What he had was energy and intelligence. Delph needs to develop the latter but he has the former, and frankly he's also got more burst and thrust than Lampard ever had (though not as much as Gerrard).
I was watching Man City play Chelsea the other day when they brought Lampard on as a sub. It was noticeable that even as he was jogging to take up his position, his head was swiveling round like the kid off the Exorcist. He kept doing it until the final whistle. The smart players are always looking around them to see where everyone else is.
I can't remember seeing it very often from any of our lot.
-
I actually think Lampard had better technique than Gerrard, who always looks quite clunky on the ball, but it's true that he was no Manuel Rui Costa. What he had was energy and intelligence. Delph needs to develop the latter but he has the former, and frankly he's also got more burst and thrust than Lampard ever had (though not as much as Gerrard).
I was watching Man City play Chelsea the other day when they brought Lampard on as a sub. It was noticeable that even as he was jogging to take up his position, his head was swiveling round like the kid off the Exorcist. He kept doing it until the final whistle. The smart players are always looking around them to see where everyone else is.
I can't remember seeing it very often from any of our lot.
Lampard is exceptional at this, he looks like an owl. He's apparently a really intelligent bloke though which would help.
-
I actually think Lampard had better technique than Gerrard, who always looks quite clunky on the ball, but it's true that he was no Manuel Rui Costa. What he had was energy and intelligence. Delph needs to develop the latter but he has the former, and frankly he's also got more burst and thrust than Lampard ever had (though not as much as Gerrard).
I was watching Man City play Chelsea the other day when they brought Lampard on as a sub. It was noticeable that even as he was jogging to take up his position, his head was swiveling round like the kid off the Exorcist. He kept doing it until the final whistle. The smart players are always looking around them to see where everyone else is.I can't remember seeing it very often from any of our lot.
One of our local coaches for a youth club team hammers this message in to the kids. He believes awareness is key to being an above average player.
-
Spatial self-awareness and of others is fundamental.
-
I think Lampard got good A Level results, including an A in Latin, so yeah, he's a smart guy. Doesn't mean he'll be a smart player, though - Dave 'Oh So Secret' Kitson's pretty smart, but was a straightforward baseball bat of a striker, whereas Paul Scholes hardly seems like a member of Mensa but was one of the most intelligent players I've ever seen.
Delph's a smart, and actually quite interesting, person - rare in a footballer. However, like most of our players right now he's taking too many touches, playing with his head down, not playing the sharp pass because there's no sharp run to play it for. He could be great in that role, but you have to say that the current manager would be unlikely to give it to him.
-
The last player I can remember doing "swivel heads" with any regularity was Stylian.
-
Makoun was good at it as well, except, y'know, we fucked that one up.
-
Do I take it that no one has had the decency of a brief reply from the club? Awful public relations but to be expected I suppose.
-
Delph knows we are in the shit and is trying too hard to make things happen, i believe he really loves the club.
-
Because there is low confidence players are playing the simple or sidways ball. I'm pretty sure that if we were on a winning run the players would be taking more chances with their passing.
Problem is we cant put any sort of run together to build confidence.
-
Flip it
-
Flip it
And tonight at 10pm
-
Flip it
Flip it real good
-
Flip it
Flip it real good
Do do do do do do do do do do do...
-
With our luck we'd end up with Del boys coin and Rooney calling it.
-
I think he's now completely ruined the players at the club that we could be fucked whether or not a new man comes in. The incompetency at the club is absolutely breathtaking.
-
I think he's now completely ruined the players at the club that we could be fucked whether or not a new man comes in. The incompetency at the club is absolutely breathtaking.
I'd agree with that - successive relegation battles has probably mentally scared some of the players for good. Footballing equivalent of shellshock.
-
If he's in charge tomorrow then I'm going to start to believe that they actively want us to go down.
-
Flip it NOW.
-
Make sure it is a two-headed coin and call heads
-
It's never too late, if it's the right decision.
-
Flip that fucking coin NOW.
-
Flip the coin, because we are definitely going down if you don't at least give us a chance.
-
FFS FLIP IT
-
I find it staggering that Lerner is so determined to devalue his investment.
-
I reckon it'll be the West Brom game.
If we're still in the bottom three then (and we probably will be) and lose that and I think they'll blink.
-
Personally I'm staggered so many of you are taken in by the false narrative. The real narrative being Paul's a competent football manager and Randy most decidedly isn't going the way of Howard Hughes.
-
I know this will sound emotional and over the top, but I genuinely believe Lerner does not give a shit.
What other excuse can there possibly be?
-
I think it's got to do with some inexplicable loyalty towards lambert. He undertook the cuts lerner was looking to impose, so now he's standing by him. It's heart-warming incompetence, basically.
-
He's not a well man. He has been set adrift from reality. He's out there behind one of Jupiter's furthest moons and nobody can reach him. Fox is not authorised to act. Lambert will not forego his huge payday. We're absolutely doomed.
-
I do think it's more blind faith in Lambert than anything else.
-
I think there are two elements - indifference and idiocy.
-
I do think it's more blind faith in Lambert than anything else.
Loyalty I think it is. It's admirable, but's it's not doing us any good.
-
I know this will sound emotional and over the top, but I genuinely believe Lerner does not give a shit.
What other excuse can there possibly be?
I keep being told that there is a lot going on behind the scenes. It's absolutely pointless if there is nothing on the pitch.All the cosmetic Supporters Club involvement, the Holte, the scarves,the flags, VMF, badge change are fucking meaningless.
The mismanagement of our club over the last few years, and arguably before,has been nigh on a disgrace. I never thought that I would rue the day when Doug Ellis "left" the board room.
I do and I'm ashamed to say it.
-
i don't give a fuck about leicester now. Ramp up the volume and for 90 minutes make a noise so that everyone watching nationally can hear what we think of Lambert. Everyone including Lerner. The press are all over us now. One more match could be the killer blow. I don't want us to lose BUT if it meant the back of Lambert I'd take it now. A noisy angry 90 minutes and if we lose even more vociferous as the wanker walks off.
-
I do think it's more blind faith in Lambert than anything else.
Loyalty I think it is. It's admirable, but's it's not doing us any good.
I wish Lerner were as loyal to the fans and the club as he is to the manager.
-
The way we're playing, we're just delaying the inevitable in the cup anyway. The first half-decent team we'll play in it, we'll get dicked. Either that or limply lose to leicester on sunday. (That bit of alliteration is the most pleasing thing to happen all evening)
-
i don't give a fuck about leicester now. Ramp up the volume and for 90 minutes make a noise so that everyone watching nationally can hear what we think of Lambert. Everyone including Lerner. The press are all over us now. One more match could be the killer blow. I don't want us to lose BUT if it meant the back of Lambert I'd take it now. A noisy angry 90 minutes and if we lose even more vociferous as the wanker walks off.
This . Sod the cup - it's chance to give 90 mins of abuse to the owners and manager on national telly .
-
For Fox Sake Flip The Coin
-
Regardless of how much I would ever want the manager out i'd never give up on the FA Cup. Especially not when we're in the 5th round at home to someone who are actually worse than us.
-
Marginally worse than us.
-
Worse is worse, we can't say it about many sides at present so i'm taking it.
-
It's all a bit moot really though. All that matters is the team, and they look like they've given up the season, never mind the next game.
-
For Fox Sake Flip The Coin.
-
I know this will sound emotional and over the top, but I genuinely believe Lerner does not give a shit.
What other excuse can there possibly be?
Stubbornness and an unwillingness to admit that they have got it wrong? You only have to read or listen to some of the statements by Fox and Faulkner before him to detect an attitude of disregard towards the supporters (the whole McLeish episode, Faulkner sneering "of course everyone's an expert" in an interview and that offering from Fox the other week). They know best and the fans know nothing.
-
Even if they miraculously woke up and smelt the coffee, would you trust them to pick someone that can keep us up? There was a guy before Xmas, that we all knew could do it, but he has ended up in that B70 shit farm
-
Even if they miraculously woke up and smelt the coffee, would you trust them to pick someone that can keep us up? There was a guy before Xmas, that we all knew could do it, but he has ended up in that B70 shit farm
That's the only reason I can think of why Lambert hasn't been sacked - they're scared of trying to find the right man.
-
Even if they miraculously woke up and smelt the coffee, would you trust them to pick someone that can keep us up?
No, but watching that tonight, it dawned on me that we really, really are going to go down if we persist with this bloke. And not just go down, we'll do a Sunderland / Derby memorable relegation, scoring 13 goals or something shocking.
Something really significant needs to happen, and really quickly, because otherwise we're building up a real head of steam, heading straight at a cliff.
11 days till the next league match, this is really clearly the last sensible time to get rid of him, it really is.
If it weren't these people running the club, I'd be waking up tomorrow morning and checking the news expecting to see he had gone, but the bloke is untouchable.
Besides, if they keep him and we scrape survival, surely he is a dead man walking all the same? He will have absolute zero credibility and zero support.
-
Even if they miraculously woke up and smelt the coffee, would you trust them to pick someone that can keep us up?
No, but watching that tonight, it dawned on me that we really, really are going to go down if we persist with this bloke. And not just go down, we'll do a Sunderland / Derby memorable relegation, scoring 13 goals or something shocking.
Something really significant needs to happen, and really quickly, because otherwise we're building up a real head of steam, heading straight at a cliff.
11 days till the next league match, this is really clearly the last sensible time to get rid of him, it really is.
If it weren't these people running the club, I'd be waking up tomorrow morning and checking the news expecting to see he had gone, but the bloke is untouchable.
Besides, if they keep him and we scrape survival, surely he is a dead man walking all the same? He will have absolute zero credibility and zero support.
Oooh, hark at you with your fancy ideas and big talk of scoring thirteen goals.
-
Even if they miraculously woke up and smelt the coffee, would you trust them to pick someone that can keep us up?
No, but watching that tonight, it dawned on me that we really, really are going to go down if we persist with this bloke. And not just go down, we'll do a Sunderland / Derby memorable relegation, scoring 13 goals or something shocking.
Something really significant needs to happen, and really quickly, because otherwise we're building up a real head of steam, heading straight at a cliff.
11 days till the next league match, this is really clearly the last sensible time to get rid of him, it really is.
If it weren't these people running the club, I'd be waking up tomorrow morning and checking the news expecting to see he had gone, but the bloke is untouchable.
Besides, if they keep him and we scrape survival, surely he is a dead man walking all the same? He will have absolute zero credibility and zero support.
Oooh, hark at you with your fancy ideas and big talk of scoring thirteen goals.
Ha ha, we all have to dream!
-
There is no way this team should be emulating those shit Sunderland/Derby sides.This isn't a team full of lower league crap its a team with many international player sadly directed by a man who would struggle to win a game on Football manager playing as Real Madrid.
At the weekend WBA were 2 down playing crap but got back into the game from set pieces brought about by work on the training pich.Villa meanwhile barely get the ball past the first man let alone have some plan for if the ball does reach the box.Tonight we play a poor Hull side but one with a 5 man midfield with physical presence so clearly the best formation is to out number ourselves in midfield and play literally the most light weight midfield we could ..
The utter incompetence of the tactics in the last 4 games (maybe not so much V Chelsea) beggers belief.
-
I don't care about Lerner
He don't care about me
All I want for Villa
Is us Lambert free
-
I'm of the belief now that literally anyone not named Paul Lambert as manager with this squad at his disposal would save us from relegation. Shit, Pardew has shown up at Palace and in a few short weeks done that without any problem at all. That our situation is being allowed to continue goes well, well beyond absurd.
-
I'm of the belief now that literally anyone not named Paul Lambert as manager with this squad at his disposal would save us from relegation. Shit, Pardew has shown up at Palace and in a few short weeks done that without any problem at all. That our situation is being allowed to continue goes well, well beyond absurd.
Could be a thread of its own. New manager named Paul. I'll go Daniels. Could work his magic and comes with a ready made assistant.
-
If you have any business nous Mr Fox you will be strongly recommending that Lambert is sacked now, because we are definitely going to miss out on this new TV deal if he continues. Bollocks to this tossing a coin nonsense, it's an absolute certainty that we'll go down with Lambert in charge.
-
That our situation is being allowed to continue goes well, well beyond absurd.
They should be done for wilful, wanton reckless conduct and gross negligence.
-
I agree it's gross negligence from everyone involved.
-
Besides, if they keep him and we scrape survival, surely he is a dead man walking all the same? He will have absolute zero credibility and zero support.
Wasn't this exactly what most people thought this time last year?
This train wreck has been moving at 2mph for the last 18 months.
-
A change is the only way to wake the club up and unify the fans/players etc. It is a dereliction of duty if Fox/Lerner don't realise this.
-
We should change our kit from Claret and Blue to Black, sombre and depressing (although I love black) not sure what that makes me?
-
He's an idiot and a bellend if he thinks it's like flipping a coin.
-
We should change our kit from Claret and Blue to Black, sombre and depressing (although I love black) not sure what that makes me?
A Goth from the Upper Holte.
-
I have a feeling some kind of statement will come out from Lerner with the usual waffle that takes weeks to analyse and understand.
-
Regardless of how much I would ever want the manager out i'd never give up on the FA Cup. Especially not when we're in the 5th round at home to someone who are actually worse than us.
I firmly believe a new manager would get us to the final.
-
We should change our kit from Claret and Blue to Black, sombre and depressing (although I love black) not sure what that makes me?
A Goth from the Upper Holte.
Applause
Those days are behind me now
-
Sacking Lambert now means we have literally nothing to lose because if he stays, we go down.
-
Sacking Lambert now means we have literally nothing to lose because if he stays, we go down.
We have a compensation package to pay out, if we sack him because (and I am utterly convinced of this) those that run our club are now so out of touch with what's happening on the ground that they still genuinely believe that we will survive.
-
I know I posted that there's no chance of him being sacked, but I was genuinely a bit excited to wake up to the news that he'd gone this morning.
Still fucking here.
-
On one side of the coin you have Lambert and near certain relegation on the other you have a chance for survival and a share of 5.1bil tv money ....
-
I still believe there's a decent chance he'll be gone by the weekend.
I know Lerner is a fool but to not make a change now, especially as we're in the relegation places, with 5 straight defeats and our goal scoring record, would be quite staggering, even breathtaking in its ineptitude.
They simply must make a change now. If not, well they fucking deserve to get relegated and lose millions. Not the fans of course but Lerner, Lambert, Fox and the players can quite simply fuck right off. All of them.
-
I still believe there's a decent chance he'll be gone by the weekend.
I know Lerner is a fool but to not make a change now, especially as we're in the relegation places, with 5 straight defeats and our goal scoring record, would be quite staggering, even breathtaking in its ineptitude.
They simply must make a change now. If not, well they fucking deserve to get relegated and lose millions. Not the fans of course but Lerner, Lambert, Fox and the players can quite simply fuck right off. All of them.
Well said and strangely, in the back of my mind I do kind of agree with that first sentence, just because it'd be lunacy to continue like this.
-
There would have to be someone in mind to do this as we need someone in quickly. They have previous in dithering.
A short-term contract gamble with a bumper new contract if he keeps us up would work? But who?
-
I hope Fox has a massive pay cut in his contract for relegation, but I doubt it looking at his current actions.
-
if there was an award at the moment for total management fuckwittery, then we would win it hands down. I think in years to come we will be a major case study in a whole raft of corporate management bibles, outlining how not to run a business. As we post,Tom Peters is rushing out a companion book to 'The Pursuit of Excellence' called 'The Pursuit of Shiteness: Aston Villa FC'. Time to grow a pair Randy.
-
I hope Fox has a massive pay cut in his contract for relegation, but I doubt it looking at his current actions.
If go as far as to say that the only reason Fox is failing to act is that his considerable bonus is based purely on our profits this season. Paying up Lambert's contract would severely dent that. So, Fox gets his bonus, we go down. Fox seeks new employment else where while drooling over his bloated bank account.
-
For Fox Sake Flip The Coin
And flick it NOW!
-
As usual Mr U, you are right on the money. There are certain PhD topics which are known as tried and trusted, won't get you busted. I used one, namely WH Auden. In about twenty years time such a PhD topic will be Aston Villa, The Lerner Years. The core of the intellectual challenge will be the analysis of the ruination of a business through executive inertia. At a more prosaic level what is happening to us will be regarded as the morality lesson of being too soft on failure.
-
Even if they miraculously woke up and smelt the coffee, would you trust them to pick someone that can keep us up?
No, but watching that tonight, it dawned on me that we really, really are going to go down if we persist with this bloke. And not just go down, we'll do a Sunderland / Derby memorable relegation, scoring 13 goals or something shocking.
Something really significant needs to happen, and really quickly, because otherwise we're building up a real head of steam, heading straight at a cliff.
11 days till the next league match, this is really clearly the last sensible time to get rid of him, it really is.
If it weren't these people running the club, I'd be waking up tomorrow morning and checking the news expecting to see he had gone, but the bloke is untouchable.
Besides, if they keep him and we scrape survival, surely he is a dead man walking all the same? He will have absolute zero credibility and zero support.
Said the same on another thread. Survive or not, he's got to go. he could even win every game from now until the end of the season for me, he's shown us his incompetence and not fit for purpose
Hate to say it, but I'm with you - anyone but Lambert now
-
Had to laugh at this from the Houston Villains
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10991668_10206177961476298_2481511722889778693_o.jpg)
-
We've appointed a new Chief Commercial Officer today I read. Getting our priorities right then.
-
We've appointed a new Chief Commercial Officer today I read. Getting our priorities right then.
He is going to have a hell of a job on his hands.
-
The problem is not just a lack of football knowledge in those who run the club, it's no knowledge at all. Clearly anyone who had even the slightest understanding would realise we are in terminal decline under Lambert. The argument of who else would we get holds no water, because Lambert is doing such a bad job that the players could organise themselves and probably achieve more.
-
I logged on to BBC Sport as soon my teaching for the day was over fully expecting to see the 'Lambert Axed' headline. What the fuck have our esteemed Chief Exec and owner been all day?
-
Owners on holiday in the Caribbean and the chief Exec doesn't know his arse from his narrative.
-
The only false narrative here is that Villa win be in the top flight next year.
-
The coin's been flicked it seems
-
Makes Fox look like a total twat now as well.
-
Makes Fox look like a total twat now as well.
How?
-
All the stuff he spouted a couple of weeks ago about Lambert being safe:
Fox told BBC Sport sacking Lambert mid-season would be like "flipping a coin".
"When things aren't going well, fans bay for that type of blood," Fox said.
"That's not the way that I or the owner are going to make a decision. It's a false narrative."
That's just over two weeks ago... why say it and then sack him two games later...why say anything at all.
-
Panic move. They should have panicked about 6 weeks ago.
-
Makes Fox look like a total twat now as well.
How?
People involved in football going against what they said a couple of weeks earlier...who'd of thought it.
-
I think it shows that the feeling of the fans, the new TV deal and the total lack of fight on the pitch got to Fox. 2 weeks is a long time in football.
-
All the stuff he spouted a couple of weeks ago about Lambert being safe:
Fox told BBC Sport sacking Lambert mid-season would be like "flipping a coin".
"When things aren't going well, fans bay for that type of blood," Fox said.
"That's not the way that I or the owner are going to make a decision. It's a false narrative."
That's just over two weeks ago... why say it and then sack him two games later...why say anything at all.
You mean like "one of the top three managers in the country" being sacked a week later? It's football - it happens.
-
It does happen, still doesn't make it a very clever thing to say at the time. Especially knowing how poor we were/are and the general feeling towards the manager from the fans and the press.
Look how it was derided at the time.
He should have kept his mouth shut for all the good it did.
-
And then he'd have been criticised for saying nothing.
-
After not saying anything for months, then to come out with some of those quotes, knowing the atmosphere around the club, it was truly stupid.
As the reaction on here proved at the time.
Anyway, it's a good day for the club. Coin tossed and we at least have a chance.
-
Until the point at which the club actually decides to sack the manager, of course Fox has to defend Lambert and their continuing employment of him- he can hardly turn round and say "sack the manager? Bloody hell, there's an idea, hadnt thought of that!"
-
They have hardly defended him all season. Why start two weeks before you fire him? Odd, but perhaps you all thinks it's right.
-
And then he'd have been criticised for saying nothing.
There's an alternative option to either saying nothing or spouting rubbish, namely saying something sensible and credible. The statement the other day - and indeed most club statements in recent years - have been worthless. In some cases downright bizarre.
-
All the stuff he spouted a couple of weeks ago about Lambert being safe:
Fox told BBC Sport sacking Lambert mid-season would be like "flipping a coin".
"When things aren't going well, fans bay for that type of blood," Fox said.
"That's not the way that I or the owner are going to make a decision. It's a false narrative."
That's just over two weeks ago... why say it and then sack him two games later...why say anything at all.
The team has fallen apart in 2 of the last 3 games, a lot has changed.
With hindsight you can read the statement a different way to how it sounded to most fans at the time. "Flipping a coin" - change might work, might not. "Fans baying for blood" - emotions running high, timing? "Not the way to make decisions, false narrative" - make the decision when the timing is right.
As I said, the fight has gone out of the team. Had Lambert lost the dressing room? Things have not gone well this season but there has been a dramatic turn for the worse over the last two weeks.
-
Oh joy. Found out in the pub at full-time. "Shots, barmaid, please!".
-
All the stuff he spouted a couple of weeks ago about Lambert being safe:
Fox told BBC Sport sacking Lambert mid-season would be like "flipping a coin".
"When things aren't going well, fans bay for that type of blood," Fox said.
"That's not the way that I or the owner are going to make a decision. It's a false narrative."
That's just over two weeks ago... why say it and then sack him two games later...why say anything at all.
It is the old "vote of confidence", isn't it?
-
With the benefit of hindsight, I don't have a huge issue with what Fox said.
The sentiment, at least. The false narrative toss did sound a bit too close too corporate-speak for my liking.
The manager had their full backing. Right up until he didn't.
-
Heads.
-
Makes Fox look like a total twat now as well.
You must be joking?!
-
He'd have looked even more of a twat if we'd stuck with Lambert and got ourselves relegated.
-
It does happen, still doesn't make it a very clever thing to say at the time. Especially knowing how poor we were/are and the general feeling towards the manager from the fans and the press.
Look how it was derided at the time.
He should have kept his mouth shut for all the good it did.
He publicly backed the manager which any new manager will appreciate. He took decisive action when it became obvious the situation became untenable which all good executives are able to do. He doesn't look a twat at all.
-
He publicly backed the manager which any new manager will appreciate. He took decisive action when it became obvious the situation became untenable which all good executives are able to do. He doesn't look a twat at all.
He does look a bit twattish. That nonsense statement in which he appeared to support the manager but implied it was no more than 50/50 and the false narrative guff was excruciating. The situation had become untenable a good while before, so he was late to the party on that one. He even oversaw a new 4-year contract. Lambert should have been sacked before Christmas to give the new guy at least some opportunity to improve the squad but instead he waited until just after the transfer window closed and when we'd gone even further down the table. A good executive would have seen all this a lot quicker and been decisive 3 months ago.
-
I don't agree with death by a thousand cuts or a drip drip effect. I believe you should publicly back the manager 100% until you decide to definitely make a change. Admittedly that could make you look like you have done a U-turn or were being less than honest previously but I still think that is the way it should be handled. We seem to do that to be fair.
-
He publicly backed the manager which any new manager will appreciate. He took decisive action when it became obvious the situation became untenable which all good executives are able to do. He doesn't look a twat at all.
He does look a bit twattish. That nonsense statement in which he appeared to support the manager but implied it was no more than 50/50 and the false narrative guff was excruciating. The situation had become untenable a good while before, so he was late to the party on that one. He even oversaw a new 4-year contract. Lambert should have been sacked before Christmas to give the new guy at least some opportunity to improve the squad but instead he waited until just after the transfer window closed and when we'd gone even further down the table. A good executive would have seen all this a lot quicker and been decisive 3 months ago.
All tempered by the fact he's brand new in a job and working for bloke who had given Lambert every benefit of the doubt known to man. I don't think he could have acted much quicker even if he really wanted to.
-
All tempered by the fact he's brand new in a job and working for bloke who had given Lambert every benefit of the doubt known to man. I don't think he could have acted much quicker even if he really wanted to.
Fair enough. Personally I don't think he's covered himself in glory.
-
no one has covered themselves in glory but for the sake of the club the right decision was made. Let's hope it's not too late to keep us up and that this time, they get the choice of manager right.
-
The analogy is fair, this goes either one way or the other now.
-
One thing I'm curious about is that why we seem to operate on a much lower budget than everyone else in the league other than Burnley. I know Lerner wants to sell, but we can't be that much worse off than other similar clubs. I'm not expecting us to spend £60-70 million, but a Premier League club should be able to afford to spend more than we do.
-
Perhaps our budget is dependant on who's spending it, we will never be given an exact figure (and we shouldn't). It's up to the manager to convince the board as to what's essential for progression, in our case at the moment - survival.
Unfortunately that has now gone and hopefully we have the players onboard to see us through and stay up.
The summer spend will be telling.
-
One thing I'm curious about is that why we seem to operate on a much lower budget than everyone else in the league other than Burnley. I know Lerner wants to sell, but we can't be that much worse off than other similar clubs. I'm not expecting us to spend £60-70 million, but a Premier League club should be able to afford to spend more than we do.
We've not spent a fortune recently, but Lambert's spent £51 million on players in less than three years. That's not small change. I've just looked up squad values - we're 13th. QPR, Stoke, West Brom, Swansea and Palace all have cheaper squads than us and are all above us in the league. There's more to it than money, and I think we all know that.
-
It was just the infamous "vote of confidence" in different words. Very often followed by a sacking.
However I do wonder if it was triggered by the drop into the bottom three, it's not a great way to make a decision - what if we'd stayed 4th from bottom until two games left and then dropped into the bottom 3? We'd have been screwed.
-
Foxy's coin was heads you're sacked, tails you're sacked as soon as we slipped under the dotted line and that nice new TV deal was finalized
-
Foxy's coin was heads you're sacked, tails you're sacked as soon as we slipped under the dotted line and that nice new TV deal was finalized
I'm of the same opinion, losing at Hull, bottom three and the new money coincided to bring Lambert to the end of the road. Don't agree with sacking him on the phone though, cowards way. Should have been face to face.
-
agreed, not the Villa way but both parties were thousands of miles apart and in my opinion no more drift was acceptable.
-
I take no satisfaction from lamberts demise I the absence of any credible alternative
-
I'm sure Paul will be comforted by those words as he sits in his counting house totting up his compo millions
-
"What does the Fox say" now?
-
There's more than a little bit of Ed Winchester about Tom Fox.
-
There's more than a little bit of Ed Winchester about Tom Fox.
Ha ha, I had him down as son of the Face
(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/a-team-face-man-dirk-benedict-666862ac-290x400.jpg)
-
Foxy's coin was heads you're sacked, tails you're sacked as soon as we slipped under the dotted line and that nice new TV deal was finalized
I'm of the same opinion, losing at Hull, bottom three and the new money coincided to bring Lambert to the end of the road. Don't agree with sacking him on the phone though, cowards way. Should have been face to face.
Oh for the days when the owner had a garden to kick the manager out of!
-
yes I suspect the 'come and look at my roses' call from Doug was totally unambiguous to the unfortunate recipient
-
There's more than a little bit of Ed Winchester about Tom Fox.
I'm sure I heard somewhere Higson and Whitehouse ended up hating that character and got rid at the soonest opportunity.
-
Its landed "Sherwood" - have we won or lost?
-
obviously only time will tell