Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on November 10, 2014, 12:57:07 AM
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The tenuous headlines continue.
http://thebirminghampress.com/2014/11/it-was-twenty-years-ago-today/
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Good article and utterly utterly depressing to face the reality of it all.
Regarding BFR I honestly thought he would turn it round and wasn't sure about Sir Brian at first, not familiar with him as a player, to me he seemed totally glum and low key after the exuberance and high profile of Big Ron. Thankfully he more than proved his credentials and character as he established his own team and provided us with pretty much four years of bliss and a consistent level of high performances. My two favourite Villa bosses back to back and arguably the two best sides we've had in my time as a supporter. The only other ones that come close are the Graham Taylor team of 1990 that finished runners-up and the MON team.
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Yes good article Dave. Oh wouldn't it be great to have that injection of flair and resilience we achieved under Little.
As said above we had a really great spell with Ron, then to have Little come in and do what he did was brilliant.
I can't see a turning point at the moment, like you said it was a good result on Saturday, but I feel so beaten and drained of belief, I can't see us building on it and other than trying to squeeze another stalemate from the next game.
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Yes good article Dave. Oh wouldn't it be great to have that injection of flair and resilience we achieved under Little.
As said above we had a really great spell with Ron, then to have Little come in and do what he did was brilliant.
I can't see a turning point at the moment, like you said it was a good result on Saturday, but I feel so beaten and drained of belief, I can't see us building on it and other than trying to squeeze another stalemate from the next game.
Like I said in another post we seem incapable either tactically or technically of beating teams that are cannon fodder. Newcastle did it to us late last season, the only game they won in about 10 matches but those three points acted as a cushion for them, same as Spurs who beat us last Sunday yet lost again yesterday. We are everybodys dream to play regardless of whatever form they are in but we seem incapable of snatching a win at all. The minute we score - if we score - it feels like we retreat back to our own goal and try and hold out but its always a matter of time before we concede.
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Mentioning Grealish and Okore has reminded me, why did we have two center halves on the bench? Unless Vlaar and Baker were both carrying knocks, one of those spots could have gone to Grealish.
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Good article and doesn't that all seem light years away. I remember being gutted that Ron had gone, recall his interview on Central News where he said something like "yesterday I was trying to buy Collymore , today I'm out buying Cauliflower ". Always the joker and showman .
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A good, honest article Dave.
Helps to confirm that it's quite a bit shit all round, but with a tad more eloquence.
:-)
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Can someone please remind me of the score at home against Wimbledon. I need cheering up.
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7-1
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7-1
And about 24k present.
A horrible day weatherwise.
They had about 150 fans and some started doing the conga when the 6th one went in.
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Yeah, I remember they started cheering the Villa goals and responded to our "we want ten" chant with a cry of "we want two".
I think we beat them five-nil the year after too, looking like genuine title contenders for about two days before a rotten home defeat by Chelsea.
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The Wimbledon fans also chanted, "1-7, 1-7....." and, "Villa, Villa what's the score, Villa what's the score!" Happy days indeed.
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What i'd give for a Brian Little to step in right now.
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Thanks for depressing me Mr Woodhall!
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7-1 vs Wimbledon
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What i'd give for a Brian Little to step in right now.
Him with kenny swain and Sid .
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It's worth pointing out though that Big Ron had taken us to runners up in the league 18 months earlier and won the league cup 6 months earlier, it seemed rather hasty. But yes, BL was a good choice, made some good signings to re-build the team and won a trophy of his own. We played some excellent football at times too. I think BL's undoing was 2 record signings in a row which went tits up in a big way, Curcic and Collymore. We started to unravel after that and it was time for change again. This was also the real start of player power, and with the likes of Ego and Mouthgate wanting more money elsewhere, it made things even harder.
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As I said on a previous post BFR was a very popular manager and i remember asking my mate to confirm using Ceefax (internet of the day) if what i had heard was true. I remember somebody in the office telling me they had heard Villa had sacked Rowan Atkinson. I did not know wether to laugh or cry.
However rhe desicion was right as the team was growing older with the manager and a rot had set in for some time, the fact that BL came in and by 1996 we were 4th with another league cup under our belt proved Doug right.
My worry now is that there is no BL or a BL type of manager to come in and would the chairman be able to find a manager like that?
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As I said on a previous post BFR was a very popular manager and i remember asking my mate to confirm using Ceefax (internet of the day) if what i had heard was true. I remember somebody in the office telling me they had heard Villa had sacked Rowan Atkinson. I did not know wether to laugh or cry.
However rhe desicion was right as the team was growing older with the manager and a rot had set in for some time, the fact that BL came in and by 1996 we were 4th with another league cup under our belt proved Doug right.
My worry now is that there is no BL or a BL type of manager to come in and would the chairman be able to find a manager like that?
Those managers, like Sir Graham, found him. That's the biggest difference between Doug & Randy; the former had the knack of always coming up smelling of roses.
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Football has changed a lot, and it's difficult to turn a poor team finishing near the bottom into a good one finishing near the top in a season or so. Money talks too much and the gap has widened dramatically between the clubs with money and the ones without. That said, there are cases of clubs achieving some success without a great deal of cash, Southampton currently and Swansea a couple of years ago (winning a trophy). But that comes from the foundations at the club and the quality of coach. We are badly lacking in both areas and until Lerner is able to step aside it won't get much better (in the long term) but I think a better manager could have us performing better than Lambert, despite Lerner (certainly in the shorter term).
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Novmber '94, good old Abdul (where is he now?) fending off the hacks and fans looking for answers. Who else was there and what else happened? SSN would have enjoyed themselves had they been born.
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Great article although pretty depressing. Didn't Wimbledon score first in the 7-1 game as well?!
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Great article although pretty depressing. Didn't Wimbledon score first in the 7-1 game as well?!
Yes. We came past some of their fans on the way out and they were singing "1-0 up, 7-1 down."
The next game was the 4-4 with Leicester.
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As I said on a previous post BFR was a very popular manager and i remember asking my mate to confirm using Ceefax (internet of the day) if what i had heard was true. I remember somebody in the office telling me they had heard Villa had sacked Rowan Atkinson. I did not know wether to laugh or cry.
However rhe desicion was right as the team was growing older with the manager and a rot had set in for some time, the fact that BL came in and by 1996 we were 4th with another league cup under our belt proved Doug right.
My worry now is that there is no BL or a BL type of manager to come in and would the chairman be able to find a manager like that?
Those managers, like Sir Graham, found him. That's the biggest difference between Doug & Randy; the former had the knack of always coming up smelling of roses.
Thank god Sir Graham did find Doug and wanted the job, Reading about his time at the club he seemed to know how to work with and handle the chairman.
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I remember wanting BFR out after Forest beat us at home just before that Wimbledon game. Ashamed to think about it now, as the best football I've ever seen us play was under him (for a few short months in '92/93). I think signing that talentless oxygen thief Fashanu was one of the final nails in the coffin for me.
Worked out well in the end though with Sir Brian and I still don't think BFR would ever have turned it around, we'd been on the slide for a good while before Ellis pulled the trigger. That League Cup win the season before papered over a few cracks.
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Great article although pretty depressing. Didn't Wimbledon score first in the 7-1 game as well?!
Yes. We came past some of their fans on the way out and they were singing "1-0 up, 7-1 down."
The next game was the 4-4 with Leicester.
My god if there was any game that summed up the Villa more in the last 25 years than that 4-4 with Leicester. 4-1 up with 15 minutes left we were taking the piss with a 2 or 3 minute round of ole's and then hit the bar. I've tried to bleach the last 10 minutes from my mind as Mark Draper and I believe Steve Claridge ripped us to shreds. Typical fucking Villa....
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As I said on a previous post BFR was a very popular manager and i remember asking my mate to confirm using Ceefax (internet of the day) if what i had heard was true. I remember somebody in the office telling me they had heard Villa had sacked Rowan Atkinson. I did not know wether to laugh or cry.
However rhe desicion was right as the team was growing older with the manager and a rot had set in for some time, the fact that BL came in and by 1996 we were 4th with another league cup under our belt proved Doug right.
My worry now is that there is no BL or a BL type of manager to come in and would the chairman be able to find a manager like that?
Those managers, like Sir Graham, found him. That's the biggest difference between Doug & Randy; the former had the knack of always coming up smelling of roses.
Thank god Sir Graham did find Doug and wanted the job, Reading about his time at the club he seemed to know how to work with and handle the chairman.
The only manager to ever best Doug.
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What was Sir Graham's 'don't clip my wings' threat to Doug about? I can't recall off the top of my head.
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What was Sir Graham's 'don't clip my wings' threat to Doug about? I can't recall off the top of my head.
His first AGM. "Don't clip my wings because if you do you are wasting money, wasting your time and you will give yourself a heart attack."
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Spot on as usual Dave.
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There were some great times under Ron. That season we finished second we were playing beautiful football. It's a pity it went wrong in the end. I remember Ron saying he was baffled by the poor form. In his book he reckons he would have turned it around but i'm not so sure.
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What's incredible about the league tables in their respective years is that in 1993 it was Man United, Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR, Liverpool, Sheffield Wednesday. In 1996 it was Manchester United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Villa, Arsenal, Everton, Blackburn. In three years the big clubs were already moving into position and starting to kick the little ones out.
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What's incredible about the league tables in their respective years is that in 1993 it was Man United, Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR, Liverpool, Sheffield Wednesday. In 1996 it was Manchester United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Villa, Arsenal, Everton, Blackburn. In three years the big clubs were already moving into position and starting to kick the little ones out.
And Chelsea were nowhere, they didn't start finding any kind of consistency until the Gullit/Vialli days in which they were fairly similar to the then Sheff Wed, Leeds or Villa, winning cups and making top 6 without ever challenging seriously maintaining a title challenge yet getting a far higher media profile. And then Abramovich came and the rest is sadly history.
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What's incredible about the league tables in their respective years is that in 1993 it was Man United, Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR, Liverpool, Sheffield Wednesday. In 1996 it was Manchester United, Newcastle, Liverpool, Villa, Arsenal, Everton, Blackburn. In three years the big clubs were already moving into position and starting to kick the little ones out.
And even that cup success was bought by Matthew Harding.
And Chelsea were nowhere, they didn't start finding any kind of consistency until the Gullit/Vialli days in which they were fairly similar to the then Sheff Wed, Leeds or Villa, winning cups and making top 6 without ever challenging seriously maintaining a title challenge yet getting a far higher media profile. And then Abramovich came and the rest is sadly history.
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After finishing 4th in 1996 we, once again, missed the chance to invest big straight away and stay in there. Meanwhile other were planning to do exactly that.
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As I said on a previous post BFR was a very popular manager and i remember asking my mate to confirm using Ceefax (internet of the day) if what i had heard was true. I remember somebody in the office telling me they had heard Villa had sacked Rowan Atkinson. I did not know wether to laugh or cry.
However rhe desicion was right as the team was growing older with the manager and a rot had set in for some time, the fact that BL came in and by 1996 we were 4th with another league cup under our belt proved Doug right.
My worry now is that there is no BL or a BL type of manager to come in and would the chairman be able to find a manager like that?
Those managers, like Sir Graham, found him. That's the biggest difference between Doug & Randy; the former had the knack of always coming up smelling of roses.
Thank god Sir Graham did find Doug and wanted the job, Reading about his time at the club he seemed to know how to work with and handle the chairman.
The only manager to ever best Doug.
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I love the story of Doug walking to the dressing room with the door open for Sir Graham to then shut it before he could enter the dressing room. Great man and a great manager. If only England had waited for two more years before taking him as manager.
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I love the story of Doug walking to the dressing room with the door open for Sir Graham to then shut it before he could enter the dressing room. Great man and a great manager. If only England had waited for two more years before taking him as manager.
I'm convinced we'd have won the league, and he would have set the club up for the long-term in a way that Ron never could.
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I love the story of Doug walking to the dressing room with the door open for Sir Graham to then shut it before he could enter the dressing room. Great man and a great manager. If only England had waited for two more years before taking him as manager.
I'm convinced we'd have won the league, and he would have set the club up for the long-term in a way that Ron never could.
I agree. Ron got us up for the big games and we had a decent chance of winning the league under him in one season.
I believe Sir Graham was a manager who built foundations at a club. A friend of mine had a chat with him in 2006 and he was refering to the club as "us" and "we". So his heart as well as his talent was truly in the Villa.
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I love the story of Doug walking to the dressing room with the door open for Sir Graham to then shut it before he could enter the dressing room. Great man and a great manager. If only England had waited for two more years before taking him as manager.
I'm convinced we'd have won the league, and he would have set the club up for the long-term in a way that Ron never could.
I agree. Ron got us up for the big games and we had a decent chance of winning the league under him in one season.
I believe Sir Graham was a manager who built foundations at a club. A friend of mine had a chat with him in 2006 and he was refering to the club as "us" and "we". So his heart as well as his talent was truly in the Villa.
It's funny looking back to his second spell. Often thought of as a bit of disaster. That said in retrospect Gregory left at the right time (much like O Neill to be honest) and Taylor came in as a transitional man. I don't think either he or Doug particularly considered it would be anything much longer than what it was.
But he finished the season on 45 points. At that time it was bad. Compared to recent times, it doesn't look to shite to be honest. He also inherited an aging squad and a very limited budget.
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I love the story of Doug walking to the dressing room with the door open for Sir Graham to then shut it before he could enter the dressing room. Great man and a great manager. If only England had waited for two more years before taking him as manager.
I'm convinced we'd have won the league, and he would have set the club up for the long-term in a way that Ron never could.
I agree. Ron got us up for the big games and we had a decent chance of winning the league under him in one season.
I believe Sir Graham was a manager who built foundations at a club. A friend of mine had a chat with him in 2006 and he was refering to the club as "us" and "we". So his heart as well as his talent was truly in the Villa.
It's funny looking back to his second spell. Often thought of as a bit of disaster. That said in retrospect Gregory left at the right time (much like O Neill to be honest) and Taylor came in as a transitional man. I don't think either he or Doug particularly considered it would be anything much longer than what it was.
But he finished the season on 45 points. At that time it was bad. Compared to recent times, it doesn't look to shite to be honest. He also inherited an aging squad and a very limited budget.
I thought Doug offered him the role until the end of the season 2002 and Sir Graham said no i will take it full time. If that is true i am sure that was heart ruling head. I remember when he came back to the club and was so happy to have him back and sorry to see him leave.
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I thought Doug offered him the role until the end of the season 2002 and Sir Graham said no i will take it full time. If that is true i am sure that was heart ruling head. I remember when he came back to the club and was so happy to have him back and sorry to see him leave.
He came back for two reasons: i) unfinished business and ii) he'd never had a proper crack at the Premier League. I don't suppose a £1 million a year towards his retirement was to be sniffed at either.
Possibly the only thing I disagree with Sir Graham about was when he left, and said he'd been surprised at how divided and Doug-centric the club was. He would have already known that better than anyone.
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I thought Doug offered him the role until the end of the season 2002 and Sir Graham said no i will take it full time. If that is true i am sure that was heart ruling head. I remember when he came back to the club and was so happy to have him back and sorry to see him leave.
He came back for two reasons: i) unfinished business and ii) he'd never had a proper crack at the Premier League. I don't suppose a £1 million a year towards his retirement was to be sniffed at either.
Possibly the only thing I disagree with Sir Graham about was when he left, and said he'd been surprised at how divided and Doug-centric the club was. He would have already known that better than anyone.
Considering he was a non exec Director from 2001.
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I wonder how GT would have got on with MON if we'd had a football man like him on the board from 2006 onwards.
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You forget the amount of big looping balls into the box we had when Little was the manager. Seems like a different world back then to me.
Wasn't Dean Saunders an absolute class act? Always seems to get overlooked by Villa fans for his contribution to the club, myself included. Watch any of those old matches though and he's always looking for the ball, battling for possession and more often than not providing a quality finish
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And very happy to be here from all accounts.
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I'm sorry, but as much as I admire Sir Graham as a football manager and a man, he should never have come back.
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I'm sorry, but as much as I admire Sir Graham as a football manager and a man, he should never have come back.
True, but he was decent enough to quit without a pay off when he realised he wasn't up to the job second time around. Something our current manager hasn't the guts or dignity to do.