Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Comrade Blitz on October 10, 2014, 01:15:28 PM
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A nice piece about Stefan Moore from the BBC:
The Leamington Striker Who Outshone Rooney (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29525971)
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Does anyone know who the other players are?
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78122000/jpg/_78122636_865967(1).jpg)
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Chuffing Nora, he's 31! Time flies. It'd be great to see Stefan get to the first round proper. Who knows, 3rd round of the cup, Villa vs Leamington. If that happened I'd put money on Stefan netting the winner for them such is our record against lower league sides under Lambo.
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Guy in the back grund was an Irish lad called Heinz.
Steven Davis is the other obvious one.
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Isn't that his brother in the photo?
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You're right, that is Luke Moore.
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Guy in the back grund was an Irish lad called Heinz.
Steven Davis is the other obvious one.
Peter Hynes
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Does anyone know who the other players are?
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78122000/jpg/_78122636_865967(1).jpg)
Luke Moore, Steven Davis, Peter Hynes, and Colin Marshall (I think)
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Apart from "Moore, L" their faces all look photo-shopped in to me
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James O'Connor one of them?
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I was at that game. Now I feel very old. You bastards.
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I too was at that game. Rooney had a big reputation even at that age but their other striker Carney (I think it was) was better on the day.
We deserved the victory.
Just checked. It was David Carney. He did the rounds of lower league clubs but still playing in Australia. Not on £300,000 a week I guess.
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I thought both Moore brothers looked better than Rooney that day, shame really.
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I was at that game. Now I feel very old. You bastards.
So was I. So do I.
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I thought both Moore brothers looked better than Rooney that day, shame really.
They did.
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If my memory serves me well it was Liam Ridgewell marking Rooney that day. Did a good job as well.
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Stefan Moore never convinced me despite his wonder goal v Charlton. Didn't expect him to drop right down the leagues though.
Luke Moore should've been a decent prem striker for us, feck me he scored a premier league hattrick for us and a couple of times v Chelsea remember in 05/06....but mentality is as important as talent to be a top level player and he didn't have it sadly.
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I had tears in my eyes and chills up my spine at the end of the 2nd leg - it was a great day at Villa Park.
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Luke Moore should've been a decent prem striker for us, feck me he scored a premier league hattrick for us and a couple of times v Chelsea remember in 05/06....but mentality is as important as talent to be a top level player and he didn't have it sadly.
I thought Luke Moore did quite well in the first MON year when he had him and Gabby either side of JPA. I always thought MON did quite well when he was - for reasons of timing - forced to make do and mend, ie he'd arrived with no time to do anything other than sign Petrov and pick up a few out of contract bodies.
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Crikey, I just noticed Luke Moore is still only 28. Fucking hell. That's surely not right?
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Crikey, I just noticed Luke Moore is still only 28. Fucking hell. That's surely not right?
What year did we win the Youth Cup?
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Crikey, I just noticed Luke Moore is still only 28. Fucking hell. That's surely not right?
What year did we win the Youth Cup?
2002
Says wikipedia, not my memory, which is sheeeeyite.
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Crikey, I just noticed Luke Moore is still only 28. Fucking hell. That's surely not right?
What year did we win the Youth Cup?
2002
Says wikipedia, not my memory, which is sheeeeyite.
It was just after Sir Graham became manager, so 2002. Luke was the younger of the brothers so would probably have been 16 or 17 at the oldest. 12 years later quite likely makes him 28.
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I remember DoL running onto the pitch without official permission when Luke was heavily tackled at VP.
Under DoL and early MoN, he did a very good job out wide and tracking back as pauliewalnuts has said.
I believe that if they were born in an earlier era before they could command 10K to 20K just by breaking into the squad, both brothers would have got a lot further. Pure conjecture on my part, of course.
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Crikey, I just noticed Luke Moore is still only 28. Fucking hell. That's surely not right?
How old is Gabby?! Same age (in fact 28 tomorrow). So, not really surprising that LM is only 28.
LM is obviously still doing okay - he's earning at Toronto, I think, so not doing badly.
Just a shame he never applied himself better when he was younger, he had more footballing talent than Gabby but without the end product.
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So was I.
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It was a shame for Luke. He'd had a fairly successful first full season in O Leary's final year. One of the brighter spots of an otherwise shite season. He started well under O Neill. Some of our best football under O Neill was when we had Moore and Gabby either side of JPA.
Unfortunately for Luke, he got that shoulder injury and that really put the skids on the momentum he was building. He was never the same for us after that.
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Both managers he played well under for a spell and then fell out of favour which lead me to believe his attitude in training wasn't the best.
05/06 he had that great scoring spell in the second half of the season but wasn't even making the bench in the final few games, didn't make the 18 for the SHA Cahill game as an example.
Did his shoulder under MON but he struggled to get much of a chance when he came back although Gabby's emergence in that period probably contributed to that also.
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Luke had more than enough talent, got a winner for Swansea against Man City only a couple of seasons ago but I think that disinterested demeanour he had hinted at someone who didn't want it badly enough.
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As others have said, Luke looked very good early on under Mon, but then he did his shoulder and we signed Young before he was fit again, I think the 'attitude' that people mention was probably related to that more than anything, spend 2-3 seasons on the verge of a breakthrough, finally get a run and do pretty well only to pick up an injury and see the manager sign someone for a club record fee in the position you'd been playing. He got 4 in 13 that year and looked capable of pushing on but whilst everything went right for Gabby it all went the other way for Moore. I take his story as showing just how important a bit of luck at the right time is.
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I remember Stefan's goal against Charlton. He looked fantastic that night, and one of his touches to go past a defender was absolutely sublime.
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It may have been the mighty Richard Rufus he pwnd but nevertheless it was a canny, confident bit of skill.
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It may have been the mighty Richard Rufus he pwnd but nevertheless it was a canny, confident bit of skill.
That's kind of taken a lot of the gloss off that goal in two words. Ha ha. One of which being Rufus.
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Didn't Rufus scored a comical own goal for us going years back?
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Didn't Rufus scored a comical own goal for us going years back?
Was it around Christmas time when we were in the running for the title? I seem to remember our last win for a while being away to Charlton and Rufus scoring an og, then the points dried up.
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You're both correct - 21-12-98 1-0 win at the Valley
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Didn't Rufus scored a comical own goal for us going years back?
Was it around Christmas time when we were in the running for the title? I seem to remember our last win for a while being away to Charlton and Rufus scoring an og, then the points dried up.
Your memory is excellent
Upto and including Charlton - W10 D5 L2
After Charlton - W2 D2 L8
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Said this a couple of times previously, so sorry to sound repetitive, but if he'd had a crack when through on goal and roofed it in that game at VP against the dogshitters we drew 2-2, instead of doing the 'right thing' and squaring it to JPA who was in a better position (but missed), I think he would've had a decent run at Villa. It would have given him a lot of confidence and he'd have been an instant holte end hero, which would have bought him time and made it hard for him to be overlooked by the manager.
Sorry just realised thread title is Stefan Moore, but Luke was being discussed the last few posts, which is who I was talking about obv.
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Said this a couple of times previously, so sorry to sound repetitive, but if he'd had a crack when through on goal and roofed it in that game at VP against the dogshitters we drew 2-2, instead of doing the 'right thing' and squaring it to JPA who was in a better position (but missed), I think he would've had a decent run at Villa. It would have given him a lot of confidence and he'd have been an instant holte end hero, which would have bought him time and made it hard for him to be overlooked by the manager.
Sorry just realised thread title is Stefan Moore, but Luke was being discussed the last few posts, which is who I was talking about obv.
Yep, it's a game of fine margins really. I recall Bosko Balaban in one of his few games, I think against Utd. He found himself through, 1 on 1 with the keeper but fluffed it. Had he scored, thinks might have been very different for him here.
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You're both correct - 21-12-98 1-0 win at the Valley
Monday night live on Sky, Rufus scored after three minutes. Dire game freezing cold and they didn't sell alcohol. I fell asleep on the way home leaving my brother to drive all the way back without company. I remember it well. 16 years ago, jeez.
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I remember that. A group of us had just played a 5-a-side match at the old Stumps (now The Academy) and stayed on to watch it. Dull.
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Loved 5 a side at stumps. We started in the Sunday league bottom division and got promoted three seasons in a row then won the first division title the very next season and immediately disbanded. Oaks Army was our name and we played in Stoke City shirts if anyone remembers us. I distinctly remember Glebe Farm, Hall Green and The Barrell being our fiercest rivals. Sorry for the O/T.
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We were the All Blacks. We were crap. One season we fluked winning Division II and got promoted to Division I where we were regularly annihilated. 23-1 was our worst defeat, I think. We disbanded a couple of seasons after.
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For what it is worth I don't think Luke Moore had an attitude problem.
He was a very reserved kid, nice lad.
I don't think he believed in himself enough, he needed to have more of an ego or attitude if anything.
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Said this a couple of times previously, so sorry to sound repetitive, but if he'd had a crack when through on goal and roofed it in that game at VP against the dogshitters we drew 2-2, instead of doing the 'right thing' and squaring it to JPA who was in a better position (but missed), I think he would've had a decent run at Villa. It would have given him a lot of confidence and he'd have been an instant holte end hero, which would have bought him time and made it hard for him to be overlooked by the manager.
Sorry just realised thread title is Stefan Moore, but Luke was being discussed the last few posts, which is who I was talking about obv.
Yep, it's a game of fine margins really. I recall Bosko Balaban in one of his few games, I think against Utd. He found himself through, 1 on 1 with the keeper but fluffed it. Had he scored, thinks might have been very different for him here.
I was at that game and remember clearly Bosko being through on goal in the second half when we were 1-0 up. He looked scared, never really in control and knowing what he was going to do. He fluffed his chance and I was fairly certain there and then that he was shit. I saw him again in the 3-1 win at Saints a few weeks later and realised he was really shit. Shitter than any player worth £6m could ever dream of being.
Southampton had that fella on loan who claimed to be George Weah's cousin. He was shit - uber shit- but at least they didn't buy him. Bosko has to be the worst value signing I have ever seen.
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Said this a couple of times previously, so sorry to sound repetitive, but if he'd had a crack when through on goal and roofed it in that game at VP against the dogshitters we drew 2-2, instead of doing the 'right thing' and squaring it to JPA who was in a better position (but missed), I think he would've had a decent run at Villa. It would have given him a lot of confidence and he'd have been an instant holte end hero, which would have bought him time and made it hard for him to be overlooked by the manager.
Sorry just realised thread title is Stefan Moore, but Luke was being discussed the last few posts, which is who I was talking about obv.
Yep, it's a game of fine margins really. I recall Bosko Balaban in one of his few games, I think against Utd. He found himself through, 1 on 1 with the keeper but fluffed it. Had he scored, thinks might have been very different for him here.
I was at that game and remember clearly Bosko being through on goal in the second half when we were 1-0 up. He looked scared, never really in control and knowing what he was going to do. He fluffed his chance and I was fairly certain there and then that he was shit. I saw him again in the 3-1 win at Saints a few weeks later and realised he was really shit. Shitter than any player worth £6m could ever dream of being.
Southampton had that fella on loan who claimed to be George Weah's cousin. He was shit - uber shit- but at least they didn't buy him. Bosko has to be the worst value signing I have ever seen.
Lamberts signed a few players who've bordered on looking like Weah's cousin (Ali Dia I believe his name was) in a few games. I'm beginning to wonder if Tonev was pitched to us as Stoichkov's cousin.
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My mate used to cover the reserves for WM and even for the reserves he said Bosko looked shit and out of his depth. Which is weird when you consider he was useful everywhere else he played.
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I thought Luke looked really promising in O'Neill's first season, that shoulder injury really wrecked his chances.
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I thought Luke looked really promising in O'Neill's first season, that shoulder injury really wrecked his chances.
And his attitude
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My mate used to cover the reserves for WM and even for the reserves he said Bosko looked shit and out of his depth. Which is weird when you consider he was useful everywhere else he played.
Is that Ish who used to cover the reserve games??
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Probably not the correct thread fort his but not sure where else to put it.....story of Richard Flash (Villa fan) and how he was touted as the next big thing.
Richard Flash
Aged 13, Birmingham-born midfielder Richard Flash received offers to join 13 different clubs. His mother told him not to sign for any of them.
I was born close to Birmingham city centre, the son of Jamaican parents. Growing up on an estate near Edgbaston, the youngest of three, in a multicultural environment was a very positive experience.
I played football every day, often against bigger boys. I didn't have any coaching, but I became a good little footballer on those streets.
Aston Villa, my team, were European champions in 1982, but I played football more than watching it, initially for an under-10s Sunday team.
My dad was into cricket, but mum loved football, supporting West Brom because of the Three Degrees—the three black players, Cyrille Regis, Brendon Batson and Laurie Cunningham.
I was asked to train with West Brom at 11. Their manager, Nobby Stiles, a World Cup winner, took the session. I saw my hero Regis there, but I didn't speak to him. My mum did, but then she was an inspirational lady, later awarded the MBE for services to sport and the community.
She'd drive young footballers to games all around Birmingham. She was like a mother to many young boys lacking parental guidance in their lives.
I trained with Birmingham City—wearing a Villa shirt under my tracksuit—and they wanted me to sign, but my mum said no. She didn't think I should be pressured.
I then trained with Villa, but there were a lot of egos; some 13-year-olds thought they'd made it because they received free football boots. My mother kept my feet on the ground. She was a scout for Villa and Birmingham and still is at 73. She knew football.
I was a central midfielder who could pass long range, turn and score. I could be a right winger, took free-kicks and I was very strong. I wouldn't lose tackles, and my nickname was "Tank."
Word spread, and I soon had 13 clubs after me: Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and all the Midlands clubs. At 13, I was probably the best player at my age in the country.
Manchester United's Midlands scout approached my mum. He'd watched me several times and invited me to United in the school holidays. I did well and became captain of a team called Manchester Eagles—a feeder team in the Midlands.
Terry Cooke and David Johnson had both played for it. They'd become professionals.
United hadn't won trophies like Villa, but their coaches were friendly and attentive. The mood was much better, and there was no pressure to sign anything.
I was introduced to Sir Alex Ferguson but didn't really understand his accent. I think he said that: "If you're good enough, you're old enough. We have a lad here called Ryan Wilson [Giggs], and he's got a great future here."
Giggs was the carrot for us to work hard for two years to get an apprenticeship, but I played far too much football.
I was in three or four teams in Birmingham. With training, I was playing football every day.
In one game when I was 14, I stretched to reach a ball and ended up sitting on my backside with my legs in front. I heard a crack in my knee. I got up but struggled to walk. The United scout was watching, shaking his head.
I waited to be seen in the hospital for three hours. They discharged me, and my knee swelled up. I'd dislocated my kneecap, not that I realised it. I'd get a sharp pain in the back of my knee, but I pretended I was OK and started playing again.
My knee never felt right, but I didn't tell anybody. I was under pressure to earn a United contract, more so because my injury was hampering my game, but I won a two-year contract after a few more trial games.
I remember seeing Paul Scholes; he was tiny, and I didn't think he was any good.
I moved up to Manchester in 1993, still wearing my brother's boots; I'd always worn his hand-me-downs. I earned £39 per week and lived in digs with David Beckham near the Cliff training ground.
Pete Smith, another guy in the digs, didn't get a professional contract and became a postman. I didn't tell anyone about my knee, but I kept picking up niggling little injuries—probably associated with the knee.
I couldn't lift any weights on the problem knee in the gym, but I disguised that.
I travelled to the Milk Cup, a famous youth tournament in Northern Ireland. We performed poorly and decided to go out for a few drinks after the final game. We were 16 and not allowed to drink alcohol, but that didn't stop us.
Word of our drinking reached Sir Alex. After training a few days later, he asked us face-to-face if we'd drunk alcohol. Most of us admitted it; some lied. The dressing room was never the same. We all had a warning letter sent home saying that we'd be out of the club if it happened again.
A few months later we went for a night out. The gaffer again heard of this and got us all into his office, where he made us sit down while he told us that we wouldn't make it as professionals if we weren't professional.
He told us the year group above us were far ahead of us. It was true.
The class of '92 were regularly beating us 7-0 in training. I frequently tried to mark Scholes but struggled. I was fast, but I couldn't read the game as quickly as he could. He could turn and leave you for dust.
In a B team game, my knee cracked again. I couldn't run and came off. Because I'd had a few injuries, the perception was that I was soft. The physio didn't look at my knee but told me to have a bath. My knee swelled up that night.
I went into training the next day, and the physios looked at me properly. That was the beginning of the end. I had three operations over the next year-and-a-half and tried to build my fitness up, but I couldn't twist and turn.
I often watched my team-mates from the side while on crutches.
Sir Alex gave me an extra year to get fit as I'd been injured. I got fit and played for the reserves, but I was never a star of that team. I'd missed the best part of two years' learning, and that damaged me mentally.
I had the ability but not the confidence. In the end, I ran out of time at United.
Sir Alex told me that I was a good player and helped me arrange trials.
Wolves gave me a year's contract. I was 19 and felt like I had a chance of making the breakthrough, but Graham Taylor, the manager who took me there, resigned. I was told that I wasn't wanted.
I later went to Watford as Taylor was there but was let go—though Taylor wrote to clubs recommending me.
I joined Plymouth Argyle, played first-team football as a professional, and things went well for two months until my other knee dislocated. I was told that it was unlikely that I'd play again.
I had to start thinking about my future and decided to do a university degree.
The perception was that I was a thick footballer, so I had to do a bridging qualification first. I worked hard and really enjoyed university—doing all kinds of part-time jobs.
Then I did a Masters and a teaching qualification before getting a job as the head of the academic department at UCFB—a higher education institution delivering degrees in sports and the football industries, based at Burnley and Wembley Stadium.
I call upon many of the contacts I made in football for speakers.
I look back at my football career with positive and negative feelings. I should have sorted my knee out when I first did it. I played too much in my early teens, and that led to an injury, but I made good friends at football and learned much, which helps with my current job.
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I thought Luke looked really promising in O'Neill's first season, that shoulder injury really wrecked his chances.
And his attitude
What are you basing that on?
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Probably not the correct thread fort his but not sure where else to put it.....story of Richard Flash (Villa fan) and how he was touted as the next big thing.
That's a great story. He comes across well, and so do Ferguson & Sir Graham.
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My mate used to cover the reserves for WM and even for the reserves he said Bosko looked shit and out of his depth. Which is weird when you consider he was useful everywhere else he played.
Is that Ish who used to cover the reserve games??
Yep.
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Another article about Richard Flash (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2780431/Richard-Flash-lived-David-Beckham-careers-went-different-ways-injury-cut-shot-midfielder-s-knee-injury.html)
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That's a great story ev, and probably a classic in how such a promising career can go wrong, for whatever reasons.
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I see the (admittedly short) comments section of the mail article is as sensible as ever on that story.
To me this highlights why the current youth systems in football don't really work. For a 14 year old kid to feel that he has to play through an injury to be able to make it means someting has gone wrong somewhere. I don't know what the solution is but I'd be willing to bet that his story isn't particularly unusual and it really should be.
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I read the story on the Bleacher Report website - there were another couple of stories about promising youngsters that were interesting but lacking in reference to the Villa.
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My mate used to cover the reserves for WM and even for the reserves he said Bosko looked shit and out of his depth. Which is weird when you consider he was useful everywhere else he played.
Is that Ish who used to cover the reserve games??
Hope he still ain't wearing them winklepickers.... Say hi to him from "Agrippa"... I used to sell shoes outside the oasis market where he sold them inside in the 80's....
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Will do. That's where I met him when me and my sister worked in Oasis in the lateish 80s. Being Villa we soon got to know him! And he still likes his shoes!