Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: The Hole on September 08, 2014, 12:19:43 PM
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Hello all,
I am the creator of a Manchester United website called Stretford End Arising. URL: http://www.stretfordendarising.com/
The website runs a loan feature that follows the progress of United players on loan. Example: http://www.stretfordendarising.com/youth/2012/12/31/decembers-loan-watch-2012-13-john-cofie-at-sheffield-united/
Would someone like to write a monthly article on Cleverley? Please send me a private message if you are interested.
A link to heroesandvillains.info will be included in the published article.
Cheers,
Andrew
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He hasn't put a foot wrong so far.
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If he's brilliant, we'll want to keep him, so we will have to tell you he's garbage.
If he's bobbins, we'll want you to have him back, so we will have to tell you he has been sensational.
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Never heard of him.
If Cleverley's arrived on loan, we really should have discussed it on here. I'm sure the thread would have lasted a couple of pages before fizzling out.
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Reminds me of that United supporter who posted, wanting to know which of our youth players United should keep an eye on.
The games aren't being held behind closed doors.
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Hasn't the agreement already had a fee for January included? In which case I don't think it's a normal loan, it's not like he's likely to end up back there regardless of how well he does.
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This isn't quite like an up-and-coming player going out to get useful experience, in which case I'd understand why Manchester United fans would be interested in his progress. This is a player, who regardless of how he does at the Villa, has in all probability played his last game for them.
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Andrew are you a cockney red or an Essex red? surely with your team being shit Orient would be a better bet
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Hmmm. Would I be interested in writing a monthly piece for the edification of Manchester United supporters? I would put that pleasure somewhere between worming the cat and trimming my nose hair.
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Hello all,
I am the creator of a Manchester United website called Stretford End Arising. URL: http://www.stretfordendarising.com/
The website runs a loan feature that follows the progress of United players on loan. Example: http://www.stretfordendarising.com/youth/2012/12/31/decembers-loan-watch-2012-13-john-cofie-at-sheffield-united/
Would someone like to write a monthly article on Cleverley? Please send me a private message if you are interested.
A link to heroesandvillains.info will be included in the published article.
Cheers,
Andrew
Judging by how many of our fixtures have been moved from 3pm on a Saturday, you will be able to watch him live on telly most weeks Andrew.
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Thanks for the offer, but I think the people who use your site would find this more useful than a link to H & V.
(http://images.highways.gov.uk.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/motorway_map_small.gif)
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A bit cheeky to register just to start a running thread through the season devoted to one of your players who you've loaned-out.
Wade through the match/post-match threads to get the skinny on 'im like all the rest of us!
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Do you think they have sent the same request to Arsenal for Wellbeck? Must be disappointing to watch Rooney and Jones realising they are your players and Wellbeck is the one you have sold.
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A bit cheeky to register just to start a running thread through the season devoted to one of your players who you've loaned-out.
Wade through the match/post-match threads to get the skinny on 'im like all the rest of us!
I don't think he wants a running thread on here, just someone who might be interested to post over there, hence the request to PM him. Plenty of young budding journos on here who would be happy to add that to their CV.
Nonetheless, I have always argued that allowing new posters to start new threads is asking for aggravation.
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Apparently TC23 is now the Villa number 8!
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Apparently TC23 is now the Villa number 8!
Inside Right. Tommy Mitchinson. Ace.
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Apparently TC23 is now the Villa number 8!
Inside Right. Tommy Mitchinson. Ace.
Thats a blast from the past....i liked him though....did Tommy Cummings bring him from Mansfield?
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Apparently TC23 is now the Villa number 8!
Inside Right. Tommy Mitchinson. Ace.
Thats a blast from the past....i liked him though....did Tommy Cummings bring him from Mansfield?
I believe you are spot on, PGW. Tommy Cummings bought him, that's for sure.
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TC23?? AV8??
The only acronym we need for this joker is M6(N) in about 4 months.
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TC23?? AV8??
The only acronym we need for this joker is M6(N) in about 4 months.
There's only one joker around here.
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Apparently TC23 is now the Villa number 8!
Inside Right. Tommy Mitchinson. Ace.
Thats a blast from the past....i liked him though....did Tommy Cummings bring him from Mansfield?
I believe so. Mitchinson scored a cracker against Norwich.
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On second thoughts, I'd like to nominate Salsa Party Animal to write match reports for a Manchester United fanzine.
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Or the Woolmeister.
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I'd have thought that Tom earned enough money to buy his own timepiece rather than borrowing one.
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TC23?? AV8??
The only acronym we need for this joker is M6(N) in about 4 months.
Why's that?
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AV8 sounds more like a flying winger than a central midfielder.
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Greg has put himself forward. Gnasher!
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Apparently TC23 is now the Villa number 8!
Inside Right. Tommy Mitchinson. Ace.
Thats a blast from the past....i liked him though....did Tommy Cummings bring him from Mansfield?
I believe so. Mitchinson scored a cracker against Norwich.
(http://team-shots.co.uk/images/AstonVilla1968_640x403.jpg)
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On second thoughts, I'd like to nominate Salsa Party Animal to write match reports for a Manchester United fanzine.
'On 52 minutes Cleverley seemed to need some refreshement, -Lucozade Sport 500ml, £1.25 - Aldi'
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Andrew are you a cockney red or an Essex red? surely with your team being shit Orient would be a better bet
The O's don't want Manure glory hunters, send them to Southend instead.
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(http://team-shots.co.uk/images/AstonVilla1968_640x403.jpg)
That's the first Villa team I remember watching. Where's Keith Bradley, or was he a little later? He used to fill in for Mick Wright occasionally.
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No, you're right, Big Dick.
Keith was a Villa player from about 1963 onwards.
He wasn't on that shot -which I've still got as well, by the way- because it's a team shot, rather than the full squad.
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Keith Bradley played in the 1971 League Cup Final.
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I met Keith Bradley a few years ago, he had/has a bar in Spain and he showed me a scrapbook of all the clippings from when he played for us. Really nice fella although i must admit Id never heard of him at the time.
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Or the Woolmeister.
It was a good performance that he did
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I don't think he wants a running thread on here, just someone who might be interested to post over there, hence the request to PM him. Plenty of young budding journos on here who would be happy to add that to their CV.
Yep.
Anyone interested?
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The Hole you say?
(http://forums.scottishfootballforums.co.uk/gallery/?module=images§ion=img_ctrl&img=1307&file=max)
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I'm out..
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I can give you an update.
So far it looks like he's made the step up from Man United seamlessly.
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I can give you an update.
So far it looks like he's made the step up from Man United seamlessly.
They turned over Liverpool regularly ;-)
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Just the kind of energetic , no nonsense CM Man United could do with.
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Solid début, we have a pretty decent midfield and team you know...
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Solid début, we have a pretty decent midfield and team you know...
It's all true!
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Solid début, we have a pretty decent midfield and team you know...
It's all true!
I think we should all wait until Robbie Savage tells us how good or bad we are.
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He's probably still tipping us for relegation.
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16 games in, what do we make of Cleverley thus far?
For me he has been a big disappointment. Sure he puts in a decent shift and is mobile with it but we bought him to add quality to our final third.
Dont think he has an assist yet and rarely has looked like getting one.
Really thought he would come good with us but I'm struggling to see what he offers. Needs to harden up physically if he wants to play in central midfield but adds less with the ball than our other options. He isnt a holding midfielder nor does enough going forward to be an attacking one.
Delph in the last 20 mins today showed what I expected from Cleverley, driving forward with the ball from midfield and trying to make something happen.
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Overall i've been a bit disappointed. I'd swap him for Vlaar in January though.
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No way would I spend £8m on him.
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I suggested that we signed him before we were linked and got widely ridiculed.
You were right, I was wrong.
The scary thought is that I'd struggle to name a player who would be a (near) guaranteed success for the reported 8m. For that reason I'd swap with Vlaar if we have the chance, at least then each club would get something for their assets.
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Very meh.
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Van Gaal trying to offload his shit on us . If he wants a swap deal let's have young or Valencia or both
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Cleverley is OK and had a decent game today but not if we have to pay £8M to make it permanent.
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He has been as bad for us as he was for Man.Utd. Give him back to United and we'll take Fletcher instead.
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Fletcher ? Darren Fletcher ?
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He has been as bad for us as he was for Man.Utd. Give him back to United and we'll take Fletcher instead.
I definitely wouldn't take Fletcher. A bloke who is 31 soon and has made a total of about 30 league appearances in the last three and a half years. At least at 25 there is a chance Cleverley will be an asset for a few years.
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If he ever took a decent free kick, he might be useful. About as good as Westwood. Average.
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Westwood mk2.
He's been average at best, mediocre for the most part. I don't think he's helped by our system though. There's potential for him to do well being pushed up to a number 10 sort of role, but Lambert seems to want to persist with the 4-3-2-1.
Would I pay 8 million? Nope.
I would trade him for Vlaar though in the faint hope he could come good. A better manager could get more out of someone like Cleverley, perhaps even Westwood too.
Sanchez has impressed me a lot more, even despite some of the frightening lapses in concentration.
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He has been as bad for us as he was for Man.Utd. Give him back to United and we'll take Fletcher instead.
I definitely wouldn't take Fletcher. A bloke who is 31 soon and has made a total of about 30 league appearances in the last three and a half years. At least at 25 there is a chance Cleverley will be an asset for a few years.
Fletcher also has a serious medical problem.
I wouldn't keep Cleverley.
I've seen pretty much nothing that suggests he's worth £8m.
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I wouldn't keep Cleverley.
I've seen pretty much nothing that suggests he's worth £8m.
Neither have I, but i'd still do a straight swap with Vlaar, who isn't worth £8m either.
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He has been as bad for us as he was for Man.Utd. Give him back to United and we'll take Fletcher instead.
I definitely wouldn't take Fletcher. A bloke who is 31 soon and has made a total of about 30 league appearances in the last three and a half years. At least at 25 there is a chance Cleverley will be an asset for a few years.
Fletcher also has a serious medical problem.
I wouldn't keep Cleverley.
I've seen pretty much nothing that suggests he's worth £8m.
Same here. I'd hate us to spend that sort of money on someone as ordinary as Cleverly. Let's keep him till the end of the season on loan then send him back and spend the cash on someone who can actually create something from midfield.
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I wouldn't keep Cleverley.
I've seen pretty much nothing that suggests he's worth £8m.
Neither have I, but i'd still do a straight swap with Vlaar, who isn't worth £8m either.
I wouldn't.
I am not hugely bothered about losing Vlaar, but I don't think we really need Cleverley, and wouldn't even waste wage money on him.
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If we have to do a deal can we make it a double, vlaar for cleverly and van gaal for lambert
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If we can steal £8m for Vlaar the take it and run. Don't do the exact same thing but in reverse and pay over the odds for Cleverley.
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Mr blobby in straight swap with Lerner could also work
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He has been as bad for us as he was for Man.Utd. Give him back to United and we'll take Fletcher instead.
I definitely wouldn't take Fletcher. A bloke who is 31 soon and has made a total of about 30 league appearances in the last three and a half years. At least at 25 there is a chance Cleverley will be an asset for a few years.
I meant to add give him back to Utd in January and take Fletcher for the remainder of the season. He'll give you a little more than the nothing Cleverley offers. I wouldn't take neither as a permanent signing....there's better out there in the hundreds of thousands of footballers on this planet.
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Westwood mk2.
He's been average at best, mediocre for the most part. I don't think he's helped by our system though. There's potential for him to do well being pushed up to a number 10 sort of role, but Lambert seems to want to persist with the 4-3-2-1.
Would I pay 8 million? Nope.
I would trade him for Vlaar though in the faint hope he could come good. A better manager could get more out of someone like Cleverley, perhaps even Westwood too.
Sanchez has impressed me a lot more, even despite some of the frightening lapses in concentration.
Cleverley has played under a better manager, Sir Alex....didn't rip up trees then.
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His work rate is pretty good, but he is very wasteful with his passing. In summary I'd say that he's not a particularly talented footballer, and can see why he's surplus to requirements at Man U.
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Westwood mk2.
He's been average at best, mediocre for the most part. I don't think he's helped by our system though. There's potential for him to do well being pushed up to a number 10 sort of role, but Lambert seems to want to persist with the 4-3-2-1.
Would I pay 8 million? Nope.
I would trade him for Vlaar though in the faint hope he could come good. A better manager could get more out of someone like Cleverley, perhaps even Westwood too.
Sanchez has impressed me a lot more, even despite some of the frightening lapses in concentration.
Cleverley has played under a better manager, Sir Alex....didn't rip up trees then.
True but he's not (makes me sick saying it) Utd level. He did well on loan at Wigan playing a little further forward.
He's an average midfielder in all honesty, but I don't see us buying too much better on current budget.
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I thought his movement was very good yesterday.
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I'd imagine that Cleverly would refuse any deal in January as he'd get more cash personally if he was a free agent.
Not sure which clubs would be queuing up to sign him based on his performances with us.
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He hasn't looked creative enough for me. Far too similar to Westwood.
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He hasn't looked creative enough for me. Far too similar to Westwood.
We cant afford to be too fussy given our financial position. It looks as if we are stuck with Randy but he will be very tight with the purse strings. So yes I would take Cleverley for about 4 or 5mil purely on his work rate which is excellent. Never a top four player and not worth 8mil by any stretch of the imagination. Might score a goal or two if moved just behind the two main strikers though.
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I just think that £4-5 million spent abroad would get us more quality.
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It must be said, that at 8m we must be close to being able to afford one of Spurs' many spare midfielders: Dembele? Paulinho?
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I just think that £4-5 million spent abroad would get us more quality.
Maybe. Lambert has done well with Sanchez.
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That is where I am coming from. There must be some nippy Serb or Solvenian talent in the German league we can pick up.
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Don't touch with a bargepole. Even if we swap/buy him in January don't forget the excessive wages for 4/5 years that will cost us £12m+. I hope we've learned our lesson from paying very average players massive amounts.
Well done to the club getting him on loan to see what he's all about, unfortunately he's just a Westwood.
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Crap at freekicks, that's all he appears to have shown me thus far.
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That is where I am coming from. There must be some nippy Serb or Solvenian talent in the German league we can pick up.
Completely agree. I was in Munich earlier this week and saw lot of excellent Serb and Slovak talent on show. Very nippy and flexible!
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Not worth the money and if required and allowed , send him back in January, offers nothing that we have not allready got and the cheeky Man UuUu bastards want 8 mill, do one Van Twat
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That is where I am coming from. There must be some nippy Serb or Solvenian talent in the German league we can pick up.
Completely agree. I was in Munich earlier this week and saw lot of excellent Serb and Slovak talent on show. Very nippy and flexible!
Could be some visa issues for the talent you saw.
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That is where I am coming from. There must be some nippy Serb or Solvenian talent in the German league we can pick up.
Completely agree. I was in Munich earlier this week and saw lot of excellent Serb and Slovak talent on show. Very nippy and flexible!
Could be some visa issues for the talent you saw.
Just marry them and bring them over, not keen on Slovak food however.
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That is where I am coming from. There must be some nippy Serb or Solvenian talent in the German league we can pick up.
Completely agree. I was in Munich earlier this week and saw lot of excellent Serb and Slovak talent on show. Very nippy and flexible!
Agree, however at bedtime you need to stow away wallet , watch etc and sleep with one eye open ;-)
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Don't touch with a bargepole. Even if we swap/buy him in January don't forget the excessive wages for 4/5 years that will cost us £12m+. I hope we've learned our lesson from paying very average players massive amounts.
Well done to the club getting him on loan to see what he's all about, unfortunately he's just a Westwood.
Thats an insult to Westwood who at least has the excuse of not having as much PL experience. At the time I could see the logic in the Cleverly move but it hasn't worked out so I would look elsewhere.
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Don't touch with a bargepole. Even if we swap/buy him in January don't forget the excessive wages for 4/5 years that will cost us £12m+. I hope we've learned our lesson from paying very average players massive amounts.
Well done to the club getting him on loan to see what he's all about, unfortunately he's just a Westwood.
Thats an insult to Westwood who at least has the excuse of not having as much PL experience. At the time I could see the logic in the Cleverly move but it hasn't worked out so I would look elsewhere.
Westwood's played pretty much every week for us for 2 and a half seasons so I'd say he's got a fair amount of experience by now. I also think it's a fair comparison with Cleverley as they're both nothing midfielders. At least we can give Cleverley back though so let's do it.
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He has to be taken off free kicks. Hitting the first defender is just amateur.
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Don't touch with a bargepole. Even if we swap/buy him in January don't forget the excessive wages for 4/5 years that will cost us £12m+. I hope we've learned our lesson from paying very average players massive amounts.
Well done to the club getting him on loan to see what he's all about, unfortunately he's just a Westwood.
Thats an insult to Westwood who at least has the excuse of not having as much PL experience. At the time I could see the logic in the Cleverly move but it hasn't worked out so I would look elsewhere.
Westwood's played pretty much every week for us for 2 and a half seasons so I'd say he's got a fair amount of experience by now. I also think it's a fair comparison with Cleverley as they're both nothing midfielders. At least we can give Cleverley back though so let's do it.
But Westwood has been in and out through injuries and has not had as much top level experience also isn't Cleverly a bit older? Anyway, I don't agree with you on Westwood I think he has performed quite well for us this season and maybe our best set piece taker. Each to their own though.
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Don't touch with a bargepole. Even if we swap/buy him in January don't forget the excessive wages for 4/5 years that will cost us £12m+. I hope we've learned our lesson from paying very average players massive amounts.
Well done to the club getting him on loan to see what he's all about, unfortunately he's just a Westwood.
Thats an insult to Westwood who at least has the excuse of not having as much PL experience. At the time I could see the logic in the Cleverly move but it hasn't worked out so I would look elsewhere.
Westwood's played pretty much every week for us for 2 and a half seasons so I'd say he's got a fair amount of experience by now. I also think it's a fair comparison with Cleverley as they're both nothing midfielders. At least we can give Cleverley back though so let's do it.
But Westwood has been in and out through injuries and has not had as much top level experience also isn't Cleverly a bit older? Anyway, I don't agree with you on Westwood I think he has performed quite well for us this season and maybe our best set piece taker. Each to their own though.
He's hardly dynamic though is he? Same with Cleverley. I'm sure when he broke into Yanited team he was a goalscoring midfielder. Looks nothing like at the moment. Perhaps that's down to how they're instructed to play.
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All this westwood is a nothing midfielder is just wrong.
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Westwood plays yesterday instead of Richardson alongside Delph and we would have won,I think we will miss him while he's out injured.
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All this westwood is a nothing midfielder is just wrong.
Agree. Thought we missed him badly yesterday cleaning up all the second balls etc.
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Not good enough. Get rid.
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In a long line of bad decisions made by the Board, I think paying £8 million for Cleverley would rank alongside the McLeish appointment.
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In a long line of bad decisions made by the Board, I think paying £8 million for Cleverley would rank alongside the McLeish appointment.
I agree, I don't actually think he's worth his wages, certainly not the transfer fee
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In a long line of bad decisions made by the Board, I think paying £8 million for Cleverley would rank alongside the McLeish appointment.
A little over the top. Cleverley is no world beater but a decent, run of the mill PL player; McLeish was a completely inexplicable and indefensible appointment.
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I'd say he's good enough that if he wanted to join us for nothing when his contract finishes then I'd be perfectly happy with that.
I'd also consider him in a Vlaar/ManYoo January deal. Say, Cleverley plus £2/3m.
But on what he's shown up to now, him being our second biggest transfer fee since what, summer 2011? Hopefully that's money that will now be used elsewhere.
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I don't see a lot of difference between Westwood and Cleverley, which says it all really about paying £7m for him.
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Is he banned for Swansea or Saturday's game when he can't play anyway?
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He's a good player, nothing more and I'm a little sorry about that. He's been very good at time for Utd and his Wigan stint made ne quite excited about him signing. He's not twice the player Sanchez is so no thanks unless the fee is dramatically reduced.
Saying that I would like to see him in a role further forward but I don't see Lambert changing the system unless someone turned up of real quality by surprise and we had to adjust to suit the player.
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Is he banned for Swansea or Saturday's game when he can't play anyway?
According to the FA he is banned for the Manure game. Which is a bonus.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/suspensions
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Of the 11 players currently suspended, 3 of them are ours! Good job we have a big squad.........
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We were in limbo and permanent transition and now we are in suspended animation.
I hearby christen those twelvety brave souls who go to watch the Blackpool game The Guilty Remnant.
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Let manure have him back .
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His shooting, free kicks and corners are all truly appalling. He does work hard though and is half decent on the ball. I think there is a good player there but he needs to show it.
I wouldn't pay more than a couple of million for him based off what he's done so far.
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If he was priced at say £1.5m and on Westwood like wages id have him in. But at £8m and his wages are probably more than double Westwoods he is simply not worth it.
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Is he banned for Swansea or Saturday's game when he can't play anyway?
According to the FA he is banned for the Manure game. Which is a bonus.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/suspensions
The FA are geniuses.
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Is he banned for Swansea or Saturday's game when he can't play anyway?
According to the FA he is banned for the Manure game. Which is a bonus.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/suspensions
The FA are geniuses.
We'd barely notice either way to be honest.
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Don't mean to change topic but how does Huddleston get one game for that tackle
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Don't mean to change topic but how does Huddleston get one game for that tackle
Because officially it's not violent conduct, whereas Benteke's was.
Go figure.
And whilst we're on the subject, although not normally one to wish ill on anyone, I do hope at some point that Verthongen gets one of his physical assault two footed lunges wrong and his studs dig into the turf with the inevitable havoc to his own ankle ligaments, as opposed to the damage he regularly risks causing his opponents.
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Don't mean to change topic but how does Huddleston get one game for that tackle
Because officially it's not violent conduct, whereas Benteke's was.
& Richardson gets 3 too. Strange rules sometimes.
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Don't mean to change topic but how does Huddleston get one game for that tackle
He has received a 3 match ban for the sending off and a further one game for reaching 5 yellows
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His shooting, free kicks and corners are all truly appalling. He does work hard though and is half decent on the ball. I think there is a good player there but he needs to show it.
I wouldn't pay more than a couple of million for him based off what he's done so far.
About 3 million is a fair valuation. Any more and it is a real rip off, he has offered nothing going forward which has been a massive disappointment.
I would keep him until the end of the season, offer him a deal on a free and if he goes elsewhere not cry about it.
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Had many a pub discussion about Tom Cleverley when he was at Man United and playing for England. I never really knew what he did and could only give the reasoning that if he played regularly for United and England there was something I was obviously missing. Well I still don't know what he does.
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If he was priced at say £1.5m and on Westwood like wages id have him in. But at £8m and his wages are probably more than double Westwoods he is simply not worth it.
Totally agree, no where near worth £8m. Unless the price drops, send him back. There must be better value around.
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Had many a pub discussion about Tom Cleverley when he was at Man United and playing for England. I never really knew what he did and could only give the reasoning that if he played regularly for United and England there was something I was obviously missing. Well I still don't know what he does.
Situational player to stick in for tough away fixtures/at the end of games where an extra possession keeper/runner is needed. So a decent squad player for a lot of teams to have, but him getting games for England was ridiculous given how they've shunted someone like Milner out wide game after game during this period.
It's weird though, I seem to recall that when he was coming through years ago he was regarded as an attacking midfielder who could beat his man and get into the box.
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Had many a pub discussion about Tom Cleverley when he was at Man United and playing for England. I never really knew what he did and could only give the reasoning that if he played regularly for United and England there was something I was obviously missing. Well I still don't know what he does.
Let me know if you ever find out
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He needs to be sent back up the M6 in Jan.
It's bad enough gifting them 6 points every year but to be paying £8m for their jumble sale item would be a catastrophic misallocation of funds and judgment .
He's added nothing to what is a very mediocre midfield (albeit improving with the addition of Sanchez ) .
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He needs to be sent back up the M6 in Jan.
Unless we're getting somebody better, why not just keep him until his season-long loan has finished?
It's not like he's keeping Iniesta or Modric out of our team.
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He needs to be sent back up the M6 in Jan.
Unless we're getting somebody better, why not just keep him until his season-long loan has finished?
It's not like he's keeping Iniesta or Modric out of our team.
Don't we have an option to send him back in January?
Could free up wage money for an incoming replacement.
I honestly don't see what he offers. People have made the point that he's too similar to Westwood. I don't think Westwood is particularly brilliant, but to me he offers much more than Cleverley.
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My understanding is that we have him on loan until the end of the season unless:
a) we choose to buy him in January
b) somebody else chooses to buy him in January
If we can send him back and that means that we get somebody better then great. I'm not holding my breath though.
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Send him back and put the money towards a new deal for Delph?
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I was chatting with a Utd gloryhunter at work the other evening and he didn't rate Cleverley at all. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere to be honest.
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I think I’m in a minority, but I quite like Cleverley. I like the fact that he does everything quickly and is always looking for a forward ball. It’s something that sets him apart from all of our existing midfielders. He seems to play at a much higher tempo than the rest of our side and I also think at time he anticipates things better. I think he’s suffered a bit from our lack of quality/creativity in the wide areas of our side, as I think we’re very one dimensional (and therefore predictable) when going forward, but I do agree that we haven’t seen much quality from his end-product in an attacking sense yet.
Having said all of that, £7 million is a very steep price (especially given his contract situation) but with Delph’s future in doubt, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Lambert push this one through in January.
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I was chatting with a Utd gloryhunter at work the other evening and he didn't rate Cleverley at all. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere to be honest.
I was having a nosey at Red Cafe and couldn't find anyone there who rated him. Basically they all say the same as us, i.e. what does he do?
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I was chatting with a Utd gloryhunter at work the other evening and he didn't rate Cleverley at all. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere to be honest.
If it came to a straight choice, I'd rather we stuck the 7m on a horse than spent in on him in January.
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A couple of million, at a push £3m, then fine. Any more than that and i'd look elsewhere.
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I was chatting with a Utd gloryhunter at work the other evening and he didn't rate Cleverley at all. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere to be honest.
I was having a nosey at Red Cafe and couldn't find anyone there who rated him. Basically they all say the same as us, i.e. what does he do?
In my opinion, he's a water carrier, but a decent one. He moves the ball quickly and effectively through the middle of the pitch, always makes himself available for a pass and works hard to retrieve the ball when not in possession. Playing in a team with a high percentage of possession and quality attacking options, he's effective (as Sir Alex will testify).
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A couple of million, at a push £3m, then fine. Any more than that and i'd look elsewhere.
My worry, is that I can honestly see us rejecting him and him joining Everton and being a very good player for them in a very attack-minded team.
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In my opinion, he's a water carrier, but a decent one. He moves the ball quickly and effectively through the middle of the pitch, always makes himself available for a pass and works hard to retrieve the ball when not in possession. Playing in a team with a high percentage of possession and quality attacking options, he's effective (as Sir Alex will testify).
And we know how infallible he is.
Seriously though, I accept that Cleverley's role may be an unglamorous one but it seems to me he makes negligible impact on any of the matches the plays in. He's had top level experience at Man Utd, has played for England, and yet in a struggling team he's virtually anonymous. I know he's not been with us long but in terms of our squad he's a senior player and I'm disappointed with his contribution.
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A couple of million, at a push £3m, then fine. Any more than that and i'd look elsewhere.
My worry, is that I can honestly see us rejecting him and him joining Everton and being a very good player for them in a very attack-minded team.
There's a possibility that might happen. I suppose at the end of the day it depends how much Man Utd want for him if they decide to cash in.
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i'm fine with him being at the club on a free next summer. He has a lot to prove. Mind you it hasn't helped us playing in the manner that we have. I wonder if our commitment to a new style will help his game and we'll start to see an improvement in his play.
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In my opinion, he's a water carrier, but a decent one. He moves the ball quickly and effectively through the middle of the pitch, always makes himself available for a pass and works hard to retrieve the ball when not in possession. Playing in a team with a high percentage of possession and quality attacking options, he's effective (as Sir Alex will testify).
And we know how infallible he is.
Seriously though, I accept that Cleverley's role may be an unglamorous one but it seems to me he makes negligible impact on any of the matches the plays in. He's had top level experience at Man Utd, has played for England, and yet in a struggling team he's virtually anonymous. I know he's not been with us long but in terms of our squad he's a senior player and I'm disappointed with his contribution.
I wouldn't say that he's anonymous at all. Ineffective perhaps, but his work-rate alone makes anonymous an unfair accusation in my opinion.
For him, I would imagine that there's been a steep learning curve in having to adapt your game to play without the ball for 60% plus of a match, as opposed to the other way round. That's not to make an excuse him but I don't think his performances have been poor, just that we probably haven't seen enough to justify a £7 million outlay.
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A couple of million, at a push £3m, then fine. Any more than that and i'd look elsewhere.
My worry, is that I can honestly see us rejecting him and him joining Everton and being a very good player for them in a very attack-minded team.
There's a possibility that might happen. I suppose at the end of the day it depends how much Man Utd want for him if they decide to cash in.
My understanding was that the deal and price were already in place and it was just down to us to yay or nay it in january...?
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I wouldn't say that he's anonymous at all. Ineffective perhaps, but his work-rate alone makes anonymous an unfair accusation in my opinion.
The fact that we're quibbling about whether he should be deemed ineffective or anonymous sums up this discussion quite neatly.
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I wouldn't say that he's anonymous at all. Ineffective perhaps, but his work-rate alone makes anonymous an unfair accusation in my opinion.
The fact that we're quibbling about whether he should be deemed ineffective or anonymous sums up this discussion quite neatly.
Perhaps. For me, though, when I watch Cleverly play my mindset is more "I wonder what a better manager could get out of him" than "Why the hell do we need him", so I can actually see something positive in the club making the deal permanent in January.
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I think a part of the discussion relates to what kind of player did we think he was when he arrived? Kevin Richardson was effective but anonymous. You can be a valuable player even if your work goes unnoticed. Cleverley isn't the most dynamic, but I think there is a lot more to come from him, with us or someone else. you generally don't get to play for Man U, and in the one season quite often without being decent.
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I wouldn't say that he's anonymous at all. Ineffective perhaps, but his work-rate alone makes anonymous an unfair accusation in my opinion.
The fact that we're quibbling about whether he should be deemed ineffective or anonymous sums up this discussion quite neatly.
The other thing I'd say is that a payer is wholly responsible for his anonymity, whereas a player like Cleverley can easily be ineffective because of the team/system he's playing in. Again, that's not to say that's he's been the shining light, because he bears the same responsibility as the rest of the side, but I do think there's a potentially very good player in there.
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A couple of million, at a push £3m, then fine. Any more than that and i'd look elsewhere.
My worry, is that I can honestly see us rejecting him and him joining Everton and being a very good player for them in a very attack-minded team.
There's a possibility that might happen. I suppose at the end of the day it depends how much Man Utd want for him if they decide to cash in.
My understanding was that the deal and price were already in place and it was just down to us to yay or nay it in january...?
Then it goes back to what the agreementl actually is. Like I said, if it's £2-3m, then fine. If it is anywhere near the rumoured £7m, then that's too much.
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I think a part of the discussion relates to what kind of player did we think he was when he arrived? Kevin Richardson was effective but anonymous. You can be a valuable player even if your work goes unnoticed. Cleverley isn't the most dynamic, but I think there is a lot more to come from him, with us or someone else. you generally don't get to play for Man U, and in the one season quite often without being decent.
I think a lot of people were hoping that he'd be that elusive "number 10" playing just in behind Benteke like he did during his loan-spell at Watford.
In reality, he's been asked to play on the left-handside on a midfield 3 in a team who's attacking philosophy is to get the ball forward as early as possible and then defend with a very deep line, meaning anyone that plays in our midfield has to put a shift in, as a bare minimum.
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Send him back and put the money towards a new deal for Delph?
I agree, I'd be tempted to give Delph a take it or leave it offer, that if he turns down we sell him in Jan.
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Why would Delph sign when he'll get at least as much dough at a good team?
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Quite.
I'd be surprised if the 'take it or leave it' offer to Delph came any later than October. I expect we're well beyond that stage now.
And good luck to him wherever he ends up next.
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None of the top teams will go for Delph he just isn't that good.
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None of the top teams will go for Delph he just isn't that good.
He's not top 5 material . He is about spurs / pool / Everton level .
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He is english and he will be cheap. That is why the top clubs will look at him.
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Quite. Scott Sinclair wasn't at Man City's level either, but as his contract was running out they thought he was worth a punt.
If it turns out that Delph is free in July, I'd expect most teams to be interested. Worst case scenario is they sell him in a year or two for £5-£10m and make a big profit.
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He is english and he will be cheap. That is why the top clubs will look at him.
With Milner pushing 30 and contract running down, I would not be surprised if Delph was brought in and Milner displaced for their token british player role.
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None of the top teams will go for Delph he just isn't that good.
Sidwell.
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A couple of million, at a push £3m, then fine. Any more than that and i'd look elsewhere.
My worry, is that I can honestly see us rejecting him and him joining Everton and being a very good player for them in a very attack-minded team.
There's a possibility that might happen. I suppose at the end of the day it depends how much Man Utd want for him if they decide to cash in.
My understanding was that the deal and price were already in place and it was just down to us to yay or nay it in january...?
Then it goes back to what the agreementl actually is. Like I said, if it's £2-3m, then fine. If it is anywhere near the rumoured £7m, then that's too much.
He's young and an England international. It really is nonsensical to think he'd be valued as little as £2-£3m.
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Think Cleverley will struggle to get back in the side now. Delph looked good today and is clearly one of our most important players, Sanchez is an important player in a different way, and personally when Westwood does return I would have him ahead of Cleverley.
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Delph and Sanchez look a good pairing. Cleverley seems to be a favourite of Lamberts. He'll come in for Weimann/Gabby next game. Depending if Gabby is suspended.
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Think Cleverley will struggle to get back in the side now. Delph looked good today and is clearly one of our most important players, Sanchez is an important player in a different way, and personally when Westwood does return I would have him ahead of Cleverley.
Agreed. It's a more balanced 3.
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I don't see the point of Cleverley. I would say he's at least fifth choice behind Sanchez, Delph, Westwood and Bacuna. I've only considered centre midfielders but otherwise the likes of Grealish and Cole would be ahead of him too.
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I think he's a decent player but not good enough to justify what we'd have to spend in January to keep him
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£8m and a 4 year deal so circa £12m in wages . Nah simply send him back. He's Yaniteds problem don't make him ours .
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I'd like to see us go for a midfield 3 of Sanchez, Delph and Bacuna. There'd be plenty of energy and drive and I think we'd look a lot less cumbersome than we do playing TC and Westwood who both struggle to provide any forward impetus.
There's a good chance for a couple of games to try out something new now.
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I think he's a decent player but not good enough to justify what we'd have to spend in January to keep him
I think that's about the start and end of it for me.
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He does nowt for me. Taxi up the M6.
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I think he's a decent player but not good enough to justify what we'd have to spend in January to keep him
Agreed. Got to be better options out there for that type of money.
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Being reported today, who knows how true this is, that we will complete the Cleverely deal in January. I have to say I am very surprised if this is the case. Now he might get better with the team now dedicating itself to a more passing style of play. It can't have helped watching the ball go over his head all the time, and having to play counter attack constantly. The new style will be a benefit to him. But I must be missing something of we are to pay what is being reported, if what is being reported is to be believed.
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I think we're signing him to soften the blow of Delph leaving in the summer. I like him, but he's not in the same league as Delph.
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After LVG's remarks about "teams like Aston Villa" I would cut his leg off and send him back with it in a carrier bag.
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LVG does come across as a bit of an arrogant prick, but in a sport full of arrogant pricks I don't think he's the worst.
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I suspect he'll be better in our side now we try to pass it.
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I can almost guarantee the 7m figure is made up . The Star has 4m which I would suggest is more realistic.
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I suspect he'll be better in our side now we try to pass it.
We have been trying to pass it for a long time. The problem is with a few exceptions, most of our team cannot control and hold the ball when they get it. To make matters worse, we have very few who make runs further up the field to give outlets to the passer. Still, they are not getting worse and hopefully will continue to learn their game.
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I suspect he'll be better in our side now we try to pass it.
We have been trying to pass it for a long time. The problem is with a few exceptions, most of our team cannot control and hold the ball when they get it. To make matters worse, we have very few who make runs further up the field to give outlets to the passer. Still, they are not getting worse and hopefully will continue to learn their game.
I agree that the lack of an advanced player for the man on the ball, especially out wide, hampers a lot of our attacking play. Cisshoko seemed reluctant to cross the ball in the first half as well - not sure if he wasn't worried about the 40-yeard dash back to defend...
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If Gabby was out for 3 I would put Weimann up top and Cleverley in midfield (he would work well in that system), with Hutton in for Lowton I think that team is pretty solid and would give most teams a game.
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I can almost guarantee the 7m figure is made up . The Star has 4m which I would suggest is more realistic.
£4m might be more realistic but the Star is hardly the most reliable source even among the red tops.
Personally I don't think Cleverley is worth anything more than a free in the summer.
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He's worth 4million so I'd snap him up at that fee.
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He's worth 4million so I'd snap him up at that fee.
That fee is about right. Worth taking him on.
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Is that the titsnbums Star or the Express and Star. Very different organs.
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I've been more happy with him than some, but I wouldn't spend £7.5m on him unless he starts to influence games quite a bit more
I just wish we'd gone for sigurdsson in the summer. He would have been exactly what we need
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Or Ki, but apparently we did go for him but he turned us down, right?
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Is that the titsnbums Star or the Express and Star. Very different organs.
The former, the adult comic.
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I like him and want to keep him. In the right team I think he has a lot to offer. I also think he's lacking confidence and it doesn't take much for his head to drop. A midfield 3 of him, delph, and Westwood is a good midfield and with Benteke leading the line I think we'd get more goals from midfield as they'd break free more often.
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That's very harsh on Sanchez.
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In response to me?
I like Sanchez but I think we have looked as decent a midfield as we've had for a while with Cleverley, Delph, and Westwood playing together. Maybe Sanchez can fit in somewhere in certain formations.
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I like Sanchez but I think we have looked as decent a midfield as we've had for a while with Cleverley, Delph, and Westwood playing together.
Peter, we've had that midfield for most of the season and it's been toothless.
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I like Sanchez but I think we have looked as decent a midfield as we've had for a while with Cleverley, Delph, and Westwood playing together.
Peter, we've had that midfield for most of the season and it's been toothless.
Until delph got injured it looked fine. And it didn't have Benteke on top. The 3 of them didn't have the option of the ball to a centre-forward who constantly is moving and pulling defenders out of position all of the time. the brings a different dynamic to the game, and a team, and makes things easier for the midfield. Look at Man city yesterday - without a recognised centre-forward their midfield was going sideways rather than forward. That's been our problem, nothing for the midfield to work with in the final 3rd.
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For me it would be Delph, Sanchez and one of Westwood/Cleverly.
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That's very harsh on Sanchez.
Sanchez is very much the anchor of our midfield. And he's improving game by game. He looks a great signing to me and someone you can build around.
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I like Sanchez but I think we have looked as decent a midfield as we've had for a while with Cleverley, Delph, and Westwood playing together.
I
Peter, we've had that midfield for most of the season and it's been toothless.
It's looked toothless and useless because they haven't been involved in the game other than to stem wave after wave of attacks. When your entire tactic has been to kick the ball to the opponent how are we ever going to see the potential of any of these players? We might start to see it more now they are being encouraged to play with the ball a bit more.
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What I hope Saturday shows is that we don't need a flat three in midfield to keep the ball or stop the opposition.
Delph and Sanchez played well, while Weimann was given the job of pressing Rooney and moved around considerably more because of this role.
Against sides at home, we should be capable of taking one of those central defenders out and replacing him with an attacking midfielder to play in front of Delph and Sanchez.
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I don't feel as though I have seen enough of Cleverley to make a final judgement on him to be honest. On balance I'd probably keep him.
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I'd like to see him pushed in front of Snachez and Delph, as he does move the ball quickly and has a good range of passing. Get that closer to the opposition box feeding Benteke etc and we could see the best of him.
He is being hampered tacked onto a flat central three.
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As I have said previously we need someone to go up front with Benteke. Someone with goals and movement in their locker .Someone like a younger Jermain Defoe. Then Cleverley can play just behind them where he could be very effective.
But as a team we are now on our way forward.
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I'd like to see him pushed in front of Snachez and Delph, as he does move the ball quickly and has a good range of passing. Get that closer to the opposition box feeding Benteke etc and we could see the best of him.
He is being hampered tacked onto a flat central three.
Completely agree with this and am hoping that we see that midfield 3 for the next few games. I like Westwood, but Sanchez is showing all the signs that he can do everything AW can, plus add some physicality. For all of our injury/suspension issues, I don't think we'll be far away from fielding our best 11 (in my opinion) against Swansea.
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As I have said previously we need someone to go up front with Benteke. Someone with goals and movement in their locker .Someone like a younger Jermain Defoe.
You just described Callum Robinson.
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As I have said previously we need someone to go up front with Benteke. Someone with goals and movement in their locker .Someone like a younger Jermain Defoe. Then Cleverley can play just behind them where he could be very effective.
But as a team we are now on our way forward.
Yep and someone who could read the flick ons from Benteke.
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The ideal player would be Berahino, but we have about as much chance of signing him as we do Messi.
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What I hope Saturday shows is that we don't need a flat three in midfield to keep the ball or stop the opposition.
Delph and Sanchez played well, while Weimann was given the job of pressing Rooney and moved around considerably more because of this role.
Against sides at home, we should be capable of taking one of those central defenders out and replacing him with an attacking midfielder to play in front of Delph and Sanchez.
Agree. I personally think that having Westwood and Sanchez in the same side unbalances the midfield.
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As I have said previously we need someone to go up front with Benteke. Someone with goals and movement in their locker .Someone like a younger Jermain Defoe.
You just described Callum Robinson.
Well I like Callum Robinson I think he has, like Grealish, a real chance of progressing his career. But we need someone with a track record
who has done it at the top level of whatever country he comes from. Somebody like Bony for instance is beyond our financial clout but we need someone of that level to form a partnership with Benteke. How about Michu (on loan at Napoli) he did very well first season over here
possibly wouldnt cost too much either.
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For me it would be Delph, Sanchez and one of Westwood/Cleverly.
If we play three centre backs there isnt a need for two sitting midfielders which is where Westwood and Sanchez are most comfortable. Id like to see Bacuna being given a chance in there instead of Cleverley for a couple of game as he is stronger, offers more of a goal threat and is more mobile than Cleverley. Good to have options though, Richardson before he got sent off was having a decent game against West Brom in Delph's position too.
----Sanchez
Cleverley, Delph
----Westwood
Bacuna, Richardson
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Daily Mail
Paul Lambert will look to trigger the £7.5million purchase of Tom Cleverley from Manchester United once the January window opens but admits Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner and the player himself must agree first.
Cleverley is on a season-long loan at Villa, who have a first option to buy, but could decide to wait until the summer when he is a free agent and assess his options.
From a club perspective, Lambert said Lerner would need to be satisfied with the finances of paying cash up front to secure his signature.
The England midfielder has impressed at Villa Park and is getting regular games, only missing the clash against his parent club through ineligibility and suspension.
'We’ve got the option to buy in January. I will definitely try. A lot will depend on finances,’ said Lambert.
'We’ve had one or two discussions with (chief executive) Tom Fox and Randy. If something comes up and he thinks it’s right for the club and affordable, I’m pretty sure he will look at it.
'I will have a discussion with Tom. I’ve never really had that with him. He’s still a Manchester United player. I’ve got him for a season anyway.’
Lambert said Cleverley was blossoming by featuring on a consistent basis after losing his place in United’s midfield.
‘Tom's been great around the place. Sometimes loan players are not like that,’ he added. 'I’m pretty sure he loves his football here. I think he’s played really well.
‘He’s only 25, he’s got years ahead of him I’m pretty sure he won’t want to sit around. Knowing Tom Cleverley the way I do now, I’m sure he’s not one of the lads who wants to keep sitting on a bench.'
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Sounds like we'll be bidding then.
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I'd like to see him pushed in front of Snachez and Delph, as he does move the ball quickly and has a good range of passing. Get that closer to the opposition box feeding Benteke etc and we could see the best of him.
He is being hampered tacked onto a flat central three.
Agreed with this, Ads
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I don't have a problem with signing him, but £7.5 million seems a bit steap given that he has 6 months left on his contract.
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So no playmaker No 10 in January again?
Or a wide-player to feed the Beast?
Tom Westwood-Cleverly at £7.5m - typical boring Lambert purchase
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Wouldn't the sensible thing here be to make negative statements so we can strike a better deal, also given Vlaar is off to them surely some swap can be arranged?
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I've seen little in him to see what he adds that Westwood doesn't already . We need a different type of player . Sounds like we have him for the season anyway so I would just leave it at that.
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He's a completely different player to Westwood. Westwood's role is to sit in front of the back 4 dictating play. Cleverly plays a good 15 yards further up the pitch, trying to link the play between Westwood and the 'attackers' (eg Benteke). until recently, when Sanchez has been in the team at the same time, you almost never saw Westwood ahead of the ball during a game. Neither does he ever really run with the ball at his feet.
They might be of similar stature and build, but they're not similar footballers at all.
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Which Tom Cleverly have you been watching ? He's barely crossed the halfway line for us.
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I can't help but think this £7.5 million tag was made up at the time and has now stuck.
Why would Lambert need to speak to Tom Fox (notice our manager going through the CEO for once?) if they already know the finances of it?
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Which Tom Cleverly have you been watching ? He's barely crossed the halfway line for us.
Obviously a different one to you. Perhaps you could elaborate on the similarities between Westwood and Cleverley to help me out?
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There must be so much better value out there than him at £7.5m, especially with just 6 months left. Keep the money and look for someone who can make a real difference.
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The Times today is saying Cleverley is going to wait until the summer and review his options then which is sensible from his point of view I suppose. He'll be hoping to strike a better deal when he's had regular playing time, not that he's been turning in stellar performances however. ;D
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I'd like to see him pushed in front of Snachez and Delph, as he does move the ball quickly and has a good range of passing. Get that closer to the opposition box feeding Benteke etc and we could see the best of him.
He is being hampered tacked onto a flat central three.
Agreed with this, Ads
I agree also. I'm not sure he would be a natural in that position, but it would be worth a try. I would personally like to see Grealish given a go in that role at some point, as I feel that is his natural position.
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Which Tom Cleverly have you been watching ? He's barely crossed the halfway line for us.
Obviously a different one to you. Perhaps you could elaborate on the similarities between Westwood and Cleverley to help me out?
Rarely crosses halfway line
Pass of choice - sideways
Or back.
Not a playmaker.
Makes runs behind opposing defence ? No.
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Which Tom Cleverly have you been watching ? He's barely crossed the halfway line for us.
Obviously a different one to you. Perhaps you could elaborate on the similarities between Westwood and Cleverley to help me out?
Rarely crosses halfway line
Pass of choice - sideways
Or back.
Not a playmaker.
Makes runs behind opposing defence ? No.
That's due to the tactics employed by Lambert.
Cleverley's game based on his appearances at Wigan as an attacking midfielder show he's capable of playing an advanced role. Which is where I'd also like to see him positioned.
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The Times today is saying Cleverley is going to wait until the summer and review his options then which is sensible from his point of view I suppose. He'll be hoping to strike a better deal when he's had regular playing time, not that he's been turning in stellar performances however. ;D
makes sense.
If he can see that Vlaar and Delph are bailing out, possibly followed by Benteke and Guzan, why would he commit to us?
I wont be too upset if he doesn't sign.
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I'd have no problem with extending Cleverley's loan till the end of the season if we can.
We'd have to be door-eating, concrete-punching, Widdecombe-fancying crazy to pay seven to eight million quid for him though.
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The Times today is saying Cleverley is going to wait until the summer and review his options then which is sensible from his point of view I suppose. He'll be hoping to strike a better deal when he's had regular playing time, not that he's been turning in stellar performances however. ;D
Makes sense. Barca could slip in and get him for nowt in the summer.
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I'd have no problem with extending Cleverley's loan till the end of the season if we can.
There's nothing to extend.
It's a season-long loan already. The only thing that means he won't be playing for us in May is if we decide that we don't want to sign him permanently but somebody else does and he wants to go there.
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Oh sorry. I've heard people talking about making the deal permanent in January, so in a "couldn't be arsed to read the thread properly" kind of way, I just assumed he was heading back to the Stabchester in January.
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I think the talks with him will be along the lines of if you stay and commit to us we'll give you so and so much wages next year and the 7.5 m will go towards your wages and another player.
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Where has this £7.5 million number come from? Must be his agent because even in todays stupid market he's not worth half that.
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Good player to have on loan. I'd rather we bought somebody else in the summer.
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Where has this £7.5 million number come from? Must be his agent because even in todays stupid market he's not worth half that.
Personally I think it is simply the number which was touted around last summer. With six months left he should/would cost a lot less in transfer fee but (probably more in wages).
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Where has this £7.5 million number come from? Must be his agent because even in todays stupid market he's not worth half that.
Indeed.
He really strikes me as a nothing player, not awful, but not particularly good at any one thing.
Given the financial strictures we are working under, if we then went out and paid 7 or 8m for Cleverley, we'd be absolutely barking.
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He's wealthy, his Mrs is stunning, I will give him that, but good Lord as a footballer, he's limited. He works hard as did KEA and Holman but I don't see much difference quality wise. If anything he's worse. The other two weighed in with the odd good goal. I've seen cleverly shoot once on target I think in 6 months.
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Hopefully we'll see him contribute more as the team get used to this weird 'passing the ball to another Villa player' tactic we've recently discovered.
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Really ordinary player. Would rather keep him if it means we cant spend any money on a replacement though. If we have any money to spend then I would not spend it on him.
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Hopefully we'll see him contribute more as the team get used to this weird 'passing the ball to another Villa player' tactic we've recently discovered.
Indeed.
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Maybe he needs a bit of time adjust. He wouldn't be the first signing ever to need that.
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I am not as against him as some seem to be. If we can get past the so called price tag which, lets face it no one knows what it is or will be.
Despite his recent poor performances I think he is a decent player, I am not really sure what he is being asked to do.
The system if you can call it that seems to make worse players of pretty much every body ahead of the defence.
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Watched Cleverley closely today to make sure my opinion of him was valid, and again I didn't see anything that we haven't already got. He works hard but doesn't really offer anything in any department - from an attacking point of view or defensively. And he's crap at taking free kicks. I'll be disappointed if we buy him at all let alone for any significant sum of money.
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http://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/birmingham-new-street-to-manchester-piccadilly
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Maybe he needs a bit of time adjust. He wouldn't be the first signing ever to need that.
That's true, and with most signings, you cough up the cash and then hope he adjusts in time.
In this case, though, we've had a few months to see what he is actually like when playing for us, and even taking into account the "dragging him down to our level" factor, I haven't seen anything like enough to suggest he's worth signing.
Genuinely, I don't think I'd take him on a free.
He's like a midfield Weimann - works really hard, but that's just about it.
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Rightly subbed today,his free kicks are poor and he's weak in the tackle,find myself having a go at Weimann only to realise it's Cleverly.We are missing Westwood badly whereas I couldn't care less if we signed him.
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Let's be honest, he's no better than Sidwell really who costs us god knows what in wages.
The frightening thing is I think NRC had more to his game and could impact on matches more.
I still can see us signing him, incredibly average player though.
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There have been games and periods of games where he has been effective, closing down, making himself available and moving the ball on quickly and usually accurately. There have been times when he has been poor I agree.
But when I compare to Weiman who lacks basic technical ability and Nzog who lacks physical and mental attitude I would rather have Cleverly in the team than those 2.
Do I think we should be paying lots of money for him ? no, but he is an OK footballer at this level which is more than can be said for a few in the team.
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Let's be honest, he is crap.
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We don't have the money to waste it on him, but we will.
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I watched him closely today too. Desperately ordinary.
I mean, he's not offering goals or assists. I'm not sure what exactly he is offering.
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If we waste all of our transfer fund on him in January I'll be very pissed off. Not a bad player by any means but Westwood and even Richardson as good, if not better, than him.
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When was his last assist in premiership football.
Let Leicester have him.
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Not scored or made an assist in 16 games. Mind you neither have most of them.
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Not for me. Not done enough.
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Not scored or made an assist in 16 games. Mind you neither have most of them.
That's better than I thought . Sign him up
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He was awful v SUnderland tho in fairness he's been injured, tired and playing out of position
I just don't see him as a priority given our other midfield options and need for creativity. Even if Delph goes I'd still prioritise attacking midfield options
If we could get him for a couple of million I wouldn't be upset though.
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The number floating round for a permanent move is being quoted as 7.5 million. Sod that, he a solid but ultimately unspectacular player.
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He's available on a free at the end of the season and we've got him on loan till then
Would be madness to pay anything over 3-4 in our position
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Has he actually been linked with anyone else yet?
If he wants to keep his options open, his performances haven't exactly helped his cause so far.
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He's available on a free at the end of the season and we've got him on loan till then
Would be madness to pay anything over 3-4 in our position
It would be sheer madness to pay anything for him considering the circumstances.
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He's not impressed so much that it would be heart breaking if he let his contract wind down and opted to go somewhere else.
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He's not impressed so much that it would be heart breaking if he let his contract wind down and opted to go somewhere else.
Absolutely. I don't think there will be a massive queue of suitors coming for him in January.
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He's one of those ex Man Utd players like Chadwick who in 5 years time you'll see him playing for Port Vale against a non league team on the BBC in an early FA Cup round and you'll think 'didn't he have a spell at Villa before signing for Everton/Stoke/Newcastle, wondered what happened to him.'
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I can't think of a single meaningful thing he's done for us in 6 months other than miss the Yanited game.
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I've come away from one game this season thinking to myself what a decent game Cleverley had and I can't even remember who it was against. He's been 'ok' and that's really about it.
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I play in midfield yet:
Never makes a tackle
Cannot head the ball
Not a box to box "engine" type of player
Seemingly does not have "Vision"
Does not make threaded passes that split defences
Is not a threat going forward
Is not an asset in defence
Does not shoot
Certainly does not score
Not a motivator or leader by example
Just WTF does he do?
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Quite. At least El Ahmadi chipped in with the odd goal occasionally.
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I play in midfield yet:
Never makes a tackle
Cannot head the ball
Not a box to box "engine" type of player
Seemingly does not have "Vision"
Does not make threaded passes that split defences
Is not a threat going forward
Is not an asset in defence
Does not shoot
Certainly does not score
Not a motivator or leader by example
Just WTF does he do?
I've even forgotten what his shit number thing is
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Quite. At least El Ahmadi chipped in with the odd goal occasionally.
Maybe it was just rose-tinted nostalgia, but KEA popped into my head yesterday when Delph's goal-scoring prowess was up for discussion. As you say, prolific he certainly wasn't, but I always felt he looked like he knew how to score, a trait I don't really see in any of our current midfield. Who knows, this passing thing might've brought more out of him. All ifs and buts though, innit.
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Assuming nothing happens in either training or in transfer negotiations, the next match will be the first that Lambert has had all four of Cleverley, an in-form and up-to-speed Sanchez, Delph and Westwood available to pick from.
Who will miss out?
I think most would assume Cleverley to be the one to miss out based on performance, does anyone think that he might go differently?
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Delph will miss the next match -suspension.
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Well, I guess that solves that particular conundrum for at least one more match then!
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KEA was a big influence on the game than cleverley, does anyone think that he's being played out of position? I don't see it, but maybe this kind of wide but not really thing isn't helping him (clutching at straws here).
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On the basis that our manager doesn't appear to know his arse from his elbow, and makes seemingly random tactical changes, he'll probably pick Bacuna, Westwood Cleverley and Delph in a 5-4-1 just to confuse everyone.
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I play in midfield yet:
Never makes a tackle
Cannot head the ball
Not a box to box "engine" type of player
Seemingly does not have "Vision"
Does not make threaded passes that split defences
Is not a threat going forward
Is not an asset in defence
Does not shoot
Certainly does not score
Not a motivator or leader by example
Just WTF does he do?
Exactly.
He is an absolute nothing player, totally unremarkable, doesn't do anything particularly well, truly rubbish.
Cleverley just makes me respect more what Ferguson achieved in his final years there, if he had guff like Cleverley on the books.
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I play in midfield yet:
Never makes a tackle
Cannot head the ball
Not a box to box "engine" type of player
Seemingly does not have "Vision"
Does not make threaded passes that split defences
Is not a threat going forward
Is not an asset in defence
Does not shoot
Certainly does not score
Not a motivator or leader by example
Just WTF does he do?
Exactly.
He is an absolute nothing player, totally unremarkable, doesn't do anything particularly well, truly rubbish.
Cleverley just makes me respect more what Ferguson achieved in his final years there, if he had guff like Cleverley on the books.
Players can look better than they actually are when they are just a cog in a well oiled machine. It's when they have to influence games, you see if they have it. Cleverley is clearly coming up short in influencing our games but, then again, is he being asked to.
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I was not a big fan of KEA I felt he struggled in alot of games and the pace of the league ,yet he added more to team than I have seen from Cleverly so far.
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Assuming nothing happens in either training or in transfer negotiations, the next match will be the first that Lambert has had all four of Cleverley, an in-form and up-to-speed Sanchez, Delph and Westwood available to pick from.
Who will miss out?
I think most would assume Cleverley to be the one to miss out based on performance, does anyone think that he might go differently?
I have a feeling he will play all four of them, pushing Cleverley into one of the 'wide forward' roles.
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Although there is one glaring exception i am always wary of buying a player of that club, they are a pretty shrewd lot and if they thought he was decent they would not be selling him, on a free maybe but from what i've seen so far he isn't worth paying for.
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Assuming nothing happens in either training or in transfer negotiations, the next match will be the first that Lambert has had all four of Cleverley, an in-form and up-to-speed Sanchez, Delph and Westwood available to pick from.
Who will miss out?
I think most would assume Cleverley to be the one to miss out based on performance, does anyone think that he might go differently?
I have a feeling he will play all four of them, pushing Cleverley into one of the 'wide forward' roles.
Think he will look to play a diamond four in midfield with Cole supporting Benteke. Would like to see Lambert try this anyway with Richardson or Bacuna instead of Delph the next day. Based on Lambert's comments re his selection against Blackpool he clearly doesn't rate some of his backup players.
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Let's be honest. If you are a back up player in this Villa squad you aren't very good.
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I think it's telling that Cleverly has been subbed in the last two games.
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Handing money to Yanited at the best of times is a pretty galling prospect. Handing them money for Tom Cleverley is very disturbing . Please don't.
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I think it's telling that Cleverly has been subbed in the last two games.
Quite , he has been withdrawn as we needed a goal and he wasn't deemed as contributing enough in that respect.
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If we buy him for anything up to 3mil I wouldn't be too bothered. We need cover given our injury record.Lambert will probably buy him but the fee will not be disclosed and that will be frustrating. Apart from having a good engine Cleverley doesn't appear to have much else.
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Can someone give a counter view here, if we keep TC23, what will he add?
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Can someone give a counter view here, if we keep TC23, what will he add?
Not a lot for £7.5m
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Although there is one glaring exception i am always wary of buying a player of that club, they are a pretty shrewd lot and if they thought he was decent they would not be selling him, on a free maybe but from what i've seen so far he isn't worth paying for.
Spot on, ManUre got rid of a dross player by their standards, saved a salary and saw Villa as a potential easy target for a few million transfer. If what I saw in the media recently is correct, he's looking for other options than staying at B6.
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Watching the game yesterday , I though Jamie O'Hara looks a more complete player and added more to the game than Tom Cleverley.
I'd be gutted if we signed him.
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Let's be honest. If you are a back up player in this Villa squad you aren't very good.
Indeed, but it wasn't too long ago that the likes of Guzan, Delph, Clark and especially Hutton were written off by pretty much all fans and management. Sometimes players do turn it around but I'm not sure Cleverley himself knows what kind of player he is. Successive managers have had the same issue with him. Maybe a goal or two would give him a lift but there is a danger his career is heading in a Stephen Ireland like trajectory.
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Does anybody know when we can send him back?
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Does anybody know when we can send him back?
I thought we could now but it is possibly May.
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Well, sometimes in the dugout by myself
I look across the team sheet
And I think of the things, you could be doing
And in my head I paint a picture
'Cause since you've been on loan
well, Everybody's been depressed
you've missed your every shot
And your free kicks are a mess
can't your loan be over?
Stop makin a fool out of me
Why can't your loan be over Cleverly?
Cleverley, Clever-ley, Cleverley
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Haha excellent
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I've just had an email from the club trying to entice me to 3 games:
"Those will see the likes of Steven Gerrard, Diego Costa and Peter Crouch arrive in B6 to face the likes of Tom Cleverley, Jores Okore and Ciaran Clark".
Not completely on topic but I thought it was slightly bizarre.
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Whilst he may seem to be offering nothing, he's clearly pleasing the manager and doing good what's asked of him.
Perhaps under a different manager he'd be able to do the things we'd like.
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Yes perhaps LVG will know how to extract his best talents
Oh wait ..
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You can not fault his application. It's his talent that should be questioned.
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I don't want him to be made a scapegoat for all that is wrong but fuck me he was awful again against Blackpool and its no coincidence that we suddenly had some drive and energy when he went off
He must be like Gabby and be a nodding dog when the manager speaks so they get picked every game
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To me he one of those bog standard midfield players, that every club outside the top 6 has, who plods along rarely doing anything particularly great but similarly rarely doing anything particularly bad. Probably useful to have in the squad if it allows better players freedom some from the mundane parts of the game and because he can cover a number of different roles.
I would not be upset if he did sign eventually but equally not that fussed if he went elsewhere.
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He is John Major in Spitting image. Terribly grey. I admit I was pleased he came after seeing him for Wigan and Leicester, but he is just a plodder now, no guile or gut busting runs into the box. Shuffle shuffle. Snore. I don't see what he does that Gardner couldn't do for example. I would be annoyed if he signed, simply on the basis of his wages being about 50k a week or more.
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Yet another in a long line of former Man Utd players who, when sold to someone else, is revealed to be shite when not surrounded by top players. See also: O'Shea, John.
He's also an example of a someone who gets a few games for England purely on the basis of being a Utd player.
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Whilst he may seem to be offering nothing, he's clearly pleasing the manager and doing good what's asked of him.
Perhaps under a different manager he'd be able to do the things we'd like.
True enough although the flipside of that is that under a different manager he may not get picked at all.
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Whilst he may seem to be offering nothing, he's clearly pleasing the manager and doing good what's asked of him.
Perhaps under a different manager he'd be able to do the things we'd like.
True enough although the flipside of that is that under a different manager he may not get picked at all.
Absolutely.
He stood out at Wigan, signed for Man Utd, England beckoned and then nothing.
I'm not bothered either way, but it's hard to pick fault with individuals at the moment when the collective and direction from the top is so poor and uninspiring.
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Yet another in a long line of former Man Utd players who, when sold to someone else, is revealed to be shite when not surrounded by top players. See also: O'Shea, John.
He's also an example of a someone who gets a few games for England purely on the basis of being a Utd player.
Hear hear, my thoughts exactly add to that list Wes Orange, Luke Chadwick, The shit twin of Raphael et al
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Whilst he may seem to be offering nothing, he's clearly pleasing the manager and doing good what's asked of him.
Perhaps under a different manager he'd be able to do the things we'd like.
True enough although the flipside of that is that under a different manager he may not get picked at all.
Absolutely.
He stood out at Wigan, signed for Man Utd, England beckoned and then nothing.
I'm not bothered either way, but it's hard to pick fault with individuals at the moment when the collective and direction from the top is so poor and uninspiring.
This is what I think. its telling that we never seem to have any midfielders breaking into the box when we attack. Cleverley, Westwood, Sanchez, and Delph surely all can't have the inability to move further forward and press defenders? I think there is more to Cleverley but that he's hamstrung by tactics at the moment.
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Any truth that he's off to Everton?
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Daily Star
The Manchester United midfielder is on a season-long loan at Villa Park after being told he has no long-term future at Old Trafford.
The England star has made 17 appearances for Paul Lambert's men this season, with Villa keen to make the deal full-time in June.
Villa are willing to meet United's £7m asking price, but Starsport understands the 25-year-old will snub the Midlands outfit because he wants to go to the Toffees.
Goodison Park boss Roberto Martinez is a long time admirer of Cleverley and is desperate to add him to his squad in the summer.
Martinez is bracing himself for the loss of rising star Ross Barkley, who is a summer target of Premier League champions Manchester City.
The big-spenders are confident of landing Barkley in a £40m deal and Martinez will use some of the funds to lure Cleverley to Merseyside.
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Yet another in a long line of former Man Utd players who, when sold to someone else, is revealed to be shite when not surrounded by top players. See also: O'Shea, John.
He's also an example of a someone who gets a few games for England purely on the basis of being a Utd player.
Hear hear, my thoughts exactly add to that list Wes Orange, Luke Chadwick, The shit twin of Raphael et al
The most obvious one to me was Nicky Butt, regular in the SHA and Newcastle teams that were relegated.
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If he wants to take the step down to Everton from Villa because he likes the manager then fair play.
If he stays, fine. if he goes fine. Decent player, but there are plenty of decent players out there we could get for midfield.
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Any truth that he's off to Everton?
Fingers crossed.
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If he doesn't want to sign then send him back to rot in United's reserves if he's not committed to Villa. He adds nothing to this squad except another number. Even if he wants to stay, I wouldn't spend much on him.
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Any truth that he's off to Everton?
Fingers crossed.
Too right.
He's utterly unremarkable.
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He did nothing at Man Utd, he did nothing for England and he's doing nothing for us. There's a pattern emerging there. Off you pop.
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Daily Star
The Manchester United midfielder is on a season-long loan at Villa Park after being told he has no long-term future at Old Trafford.
The England star has made 17 appearances for Paul Lambert's men this season, with Villa keen to make the deal full-time in June.
Villa are willing to meet United's £7m asking price, but Starsport understands the 25-year-old will snub the Midlands outfit because he wants to go to the Toffees.
Goodison Park boss Roberto Martinez is a long time admirer of Cleverley and is desperate to add him to his squad in the summer.
Martinez is bracing himself for the loss of rising star Ross Barkley, who is a summer target of Premier League champions Manchester City.
The big-spenders are confident of landing Barkley in a £40m deal and Martinez will use some of the funds to lure Cleverley to Merseyside.
I would say there is a decent chance Martinez won't be at Everton in the summer anyway. We'd be way better off investing the £7m and I'd imagine considerable wages elsewhere.
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Any truth that he's off to Everton?
Fingers crossed.
Too right.
He's utterly unremarkable.
Makes a change,waking up to some positive Villa news. :-)
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I think he's been over criticised but in our position there's no way I'd pay anywhere near £7m for him. Nor would I pay sinclair more than half the £50k per week he's on at citeh
There must be players in la liga or eredivise who are cheaper and better
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Totally agree. Whatever the merits of those two players they suffer from the absurd British Premier league player inflation. We can do much better by buying from overseas.
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I wouldn't waste £7m on Cleverley if my life depended on it. Keep him on loan till the end of the season and then let him go where he likes.
That £7m will come in very handy in the summer.
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I would send him back now if he can't stand out in our present bunch then there is no hope.
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If true about Everton and I were Lambert I would send him back now as he obviously doesn't want to be here or see his future here so will not in my mind be 100% committed to the cause. Of course the real Paul Lambert will keep him and continue to play him regardless to prove 'his' signing was up to the task.
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At last some good news this year!
Don't let the door hit you on your way out you shit ******
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If he doesn't want to sign then send him back to rot in United's reserves if he's not committed to Villa. He adds nothing to this squad except another number. Even if he wants to stay, I wouldn't spend much on him.
He's only commited to his wallet.
Personally. I don't want him to stay, overpriced, overpaid and certainly over rated. There must be better value for money out there who'd come to B6.
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To be fair, it's a report not the absolute truth. I won't be burning TC23 effigies just yet.
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Of course the real Paul Lambert will keep him and continue to play him regardless to prove 'his' signing was up to the task.
That doesn't sound like the same Paul Lambert who has shipped out most of his 2013 signings out of the club because he's decided that they're not up to scratch.
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To be fair, it's a report not the absolute truth. I won't be burning TC23 effigies just yet.
Even if it isn't i'd still not sign him
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At last some good news this year!
Don't let the door hit you on your way out you shit c***
Ace!
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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So, if Martinez who was being held up as an example of what our managers should aspire to is now looking to buy a player who it has been decided is useless, does this mean that now he is now a rubbish manager?
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At a push, in the event we can't land someone else, I'd part with £1.5m.
Tidy player, no more than a squad player for a distinctly average Villa time.
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Why are sums ranging from 1.5 to 7.5 million being banded about when he is out of contract in the summer?
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Why are sums ranging from 1.5 to 7.5 million being banded about when he is out of contract in the summer?
I could have sworn that we had a first refusal clause of £7.5 million in the loan deal, based on what we'd have paid in August.
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I'd seriously send this lad packing back to Yanited reserve team ASAP.
He's crap .
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I find this thread quite depressing.
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If true about Everton and I were Lambert I would send him back now as he obviously doesn't want to be here or see his future here so will not in my mind be 100% committed to the cause. Of course the real Paul Lambert will keep him and continue to play him regardless to prove 'his' signing was up to the task.
There's a big old pile of sticks to beat Lambert with but being unwilling to offload a signing that isn't working is definitely not one.
On topic, 7m for a guy who's out of contract in 6 months is robbery in any situation, when the player in question isn't worth 7m at full price it's just taking the piss. Sanchez cost a little over half that having played very well at the world cup for a side that looked very good and since they've arrived he's proven to be a far better player in pretty much every aspect. £1-1.5m and there's a conversation to be had, anything above that is taking the piss based on a few England caps and United being the "bestest team ever in the world so all their players must be the bestest ever, even the ones that have repeatedly proven themselves to be not very good."
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not good enough to warrant a fee, send him back and see if we can off load a couple of our "not so good" players on them, Andi comes to mind.
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Why are sums ranging from 1.5 to 7.5 million being banded about when he is out of contract in the summer?
I could have sworn that we had a first refusal clause of £7.5 million in the loan deal, based on what we'd have paid in August.
If we have an option to buy him surely he agreed to that in August so if we exercise it he is stuck with it and wouldn't be able to "snub" us for Everton? Otherwise its a fairly meaningless option.
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If true about Everton and I were Lambert I would send him back now as he obviously doesn't want to be here or see his future here so will not in my mind be 100% committed to the cause. Of course the real Paul Lambert will keep him and continue to play him regardless to prove 'his' signing was up to the task.
There's a big old pile of sticks to beat Lambert with but being unwilling to offload a signing that isn't working is definitely not one.
On topic, 7m for a guy who's out of contract in 6 months is robbery in any situation, when the player in question isn't worth 7m at full price it's just taking the piss. Sanchez cost a little over half that having played very well at the world cup for a side that looked very good and since they've arrived he's proven to be a far better player in pretty much every aspect. £1-1.5m and there's a conversation to be had, anything above that is taking the piss based on a few England caps and United being the "bestest team ever in the world so all their players must be the bestest ever, even the ones that have repeatedly proven themselves to be not very good."
Maybe I am being a bit unfair, just frustration I guess.
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If he's out of contract then I'd pay nothing because he's out of contract and we'll probably get nowt for Delph and Vlaar, so signing him is not worth it.
He's not shown to me that he's worth anything more than a £1m and i'd rather have Westwood
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He's doesn't add much defensively, or to our attacks. He is quite good at throwing himself and passing sideways. Certainly wouldn't want us to pay any money for him, or huge wages.
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Why are sums ranging from 1.5 to 7.5 million being banded about when he is out of contract in the summer?
I could have sworn that we had a first refusal clause of £7.5 million in the loan deal, based on what we'd have paid in August.
If we have an option to buy him surely he agreed to that in August so if we exercise it he is stuck with it and wouldn't be able to "snub" us for Everton? Otherwise its a fairly meaningless option.
That option will be there surely to protect what we want with respect to what Man United might want, rather than us having a legal right to make him join us, which would of course be utterly meaningless and unenforceable.
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Just couldn´t care less if we sign him or not but anything over 2m would be a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere.
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I'm just relieved that we tried him before we buyed him.
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Why are sums ranging from 1.5 to 7.5 million being banded about when he is out of contract in the summer?
I could have sworn that we had a first refusal clause of £7.5 million in the loan deal, based on what we'd have paid in August.
It might be my memory playing tricks but I though the deal was.
On loan with first refusal on the option to make it permanent now for the £7.5M they wanted in the summer
If we don't want to make it permanent now, then Man Utd can accept an offer from anyone else.
If no one else comes in for him, he stays for the rest of the season and can sign for whomever in the summer on a Bosman.
So if we (reasonably enough in my opinion) don't want to cough for the £7.5M, (which in my opinion would have been too much with 2-3 years on his contract, let alone 12 months) then Everton (who he was trying to force a move to, which is why it only ended up as a loan deal with us before) can offer Man Utd £2.50 if they think they can get away with it.
Thanks for coming Tom, but don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
Him signing permanently for Everton is probably a result that suits all 4 parties if Martinez genuinely wants him and we don't
We've had a squad filler that's only cost us wages for a few months and given us a chance to decide he's not for us.
Everton can probably get him for less than the £7.5 both clubs were apparently quoted in the summer.
Man Utd get something better than £0 for him.
He gets the move he wanted in the summer.
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He's like a crap version of Brett Holman.
At least Holman weighed in with some lovely goals .
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Yeah, both of them.
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He's like a crap version of Brett Holman.
At least Holman weighed in with some lovely goals .
You really should think before you post sometimes.
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Yeah, both of them.
2 is more than 0.
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Yes you're right. Let's re-sign Holman. Holt scored one also so maybe we can bring him in as well.
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Yes you're right. Let's re-sign Holman. Holt scored one also so maybe we can bring him in as well.
Did I say anything about re-signing him ?
I merely confirmed Holmann>Cleverley
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And I merely agreed with your brilliantly reasoned logic.
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So, if Martinez who was being held up as an example of what our managers should aspire to is now looking to buy a player who it has been decided is useless, does this mean that now he is now a rubbish manager?
Nah, he'd get Cleverley playing higher up the pitch where he's better.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
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Well, sometimes in the dugout by myself
I look across the team sheet
And I think of the things, you could be doing
And in my head I paint a picture
'Cause since you've been on loan
well, Everybody's been depressed
you've missed your every shot
And your free kicks are a mess
can't your loan be over?
Stop makin a fool out of me
Why can't your loan be over Cleverly?
Cleverley, Clever-ley, Cleverley
I love a good sing song on the board. Excellent work.
-
Well, sometimes in the dugout by myself
I look across the team sheet
And I think of the things, you could be doing
And in my head I paint a picture
'Cause since you've been on loan
well, Everybody's been depressed
you've missed your every shot
And your free kicks are a mess
can't your loan be over?
Stop makin a fool out of me
Why can't your loan be over Cleverly?
Cleverley, Clever-ley, Cleverley
I love a good sing song on the board. Excellent work.
Indeed. Superb
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So, if Martinez who was being held up as an example of what our managers should aspire to is now looking to buy a player who it has been decided is useless, does this mean that now he is now a rubbish manager?
Nah, he'd get Cleverley playing higher up the pitch where he's better.
He has managed to make several Everton players look very, very average this season.
The second season a manager takes over a really solidly run, well drilled side is always a struggle. Next season will be interesting at Everton, whether they can move forward again or struggle. Struggle and Moyes looks significantly better and Martinez simply added flair and movement to the disciplined side Everton were already, and in time that erodes the longer Moyes has been gone. Interesting to watch though.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
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One average season out of several rather good ones (by Wigan's standards) does not make Martinez a bad manager, any more than Dortmund absolutely sucking at the moment makes Klopp bad. He has made some inexplicable decisions this year, though.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
Wasn't implying it was you, btw, just chatting.
I remember who it was, now, it was that gun fantasist who used to go on about having a Glock under his bed, and how he only shagged "eight out of tens upwards".
Can't remember his name.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
Wasn't implying it was you, btw, just chatting.
I remember who it was, now, it was that gun fantasist who used to go on about having a Glock under his bed, and how he only shagged "eight out of tens upwards".
Can't remember his name.
That was The Situation, that was. Didn't he also have a massive watch?
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
Wasn't implying it was you, btw, just chatting.
I remember who it was, now, it was that gun fantasist who used to go on about having a Glock under his bed, and how he only shagged "eight out of tens upwards".
Can't remember his name.
That was The Situation, that was. Didn't he also have a massive watch?
And went on lunchtime dates.
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The Situation ? Wasn't he on X Factors ?
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One average season out of several rather good ones (by Wigan's standards) does not make Martinez a bad manager, any more than Dortmund absolutely sucking at the moment makes Klopp bad. He has made some inexplicable decisions this year, though.
Although he never did as well as Bruce at Wigan in the league and did take them down. So not many good ones, just incredible late runs to stay up.
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I think theres an argument to be made that Everton were good last year because they had some defensive solidity left over from the Moyes years, coupled with the Martinez attacking flair. This year we might be seeing a truer reflection of what a Martinez team is. Maybe.
But, erm, yeah Tom Cleverly. I'd take him, but not for more than 3 million or so.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
Wasn't implying it was you, btw, just chatting.
I remember who it was, now, it was that gun fantasist who used to go on about having a Glock under his bed, and how he only shagged "eight out of tens upwards".
Can't remember his name.
That was The Situation, that was. Didn't he also have a massive watch?
And went on lunchtime dates.
He also spent more on shoes than any on here has spent on a car or house or something. He was somebody to really look up to and aspire to be.
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Indeed. The Wolf of New Street.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
Wasn't implying it was you, btw, just chatting.
I remember who it was, now, it was that gun fantasist who used to go on about having a Glock under his bed, and how he only shagged "eight out of tens upwards".
Can't remember his name.
That was The Situation, that was. Didn't he also have a massive watch?
And went on lunchtime dates.
He also spent more on shoes than any on here has spent on a car or house or something. He was somebody to really look up to and aspire to be.
There was someone on here years ago whose suits cost more than our education but it wasn't The Situation. He was straight from da hood.
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I've never rated Martinez . Was so glad he didn't come here .
Who was it on here who used to fetishise him. Really, actually loved him. Used to go on about his smart shoes and stuff.
No. Not me.
Wasn't implying it was you, btw, just chatting.
I remember who it was, now, it was that gun fantasist who used to go on about having a Glock under his bed, and how he only shagged "eight out of tens upwards".
Can't remember his name.
That was The Situation, that was. Didn't he also have a massive watch?
And went on lunchtime dates.
He also spent more on shoes than any on here has spent on a car or house or something. He was somebody to really look up to and aspire to be.
There was someone on here years ago whose suits cost more than our education but it wasn't The Situation. He was straight from da hood.
Well I'm pretty G
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Sorry?
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I think theres an argument to be made that Everton were good last year because they had some defensive solidity left over from the Moyes years, coupled with the Martinez attacking flair. This year we might be seeing a truer reflection of what a Martinez team is. Maybe.
But, erm, yeah Tom Cleverly. I'd take him, but not for more than 3 million or so.
Which is a fair point. I still think Martinez did well to keep Wigan up for as long as he did though. That sort of club are always going to be flirting with the drop at some point, and he did win them the FA Cup too. We will see what he's made off at Everton.
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Wasn't The Situation the rapper off Celeb Big Brother who introduced himself to Julian Clary with the words "Hi, they call me The Situation" to which Julian memorably replied "And what is your purpose"?
As for Martinez I think he will leave Everton the way he left Wigan. With a worse league record than his predecessor but somehow a better reputation. Because the media find him cooler than Bruce or Moyes.
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Sorry?
Gangsta?
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Fair play to Tom, he's making Karim El Ahmadi look like Xavi.
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Fair play to Tom, he's making Karim El Ahmadi look like Xavi.
El Ahmadi is better than Cleverley.
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I was hopeful when we signed Cleverley. But, he's poor. He has no part to his game where he excels. Glad he won't be here next season.
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He is absolute proof that appearances for the top clubs guarantee you England caps and that England managers hardly ever look further than the top 4 clubs. What is astonishing, is that anyone at Man Utd thought he was any good in the first place.
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I think today we saw definitive proof that Westwood is better than Cleverley, and that they play in the same position in the same way. Cleverley was pretty exciting at Wigan, but he's not playing like the same player any more.
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Cleverley is shit. Not constructive perhaps but if we spend 20p on this dick it's 15p too much.
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Cleverley is shit. Not constructive perhaps but if we spend 20p on this dick it's 15p too much.
Well you say that, but I thought that about Bertrand last season, and look how he's doing under a proper manager.
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He was absolutely gash today
No change there then.
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Cleverley is shit. Not constructive perhaps but if we spend 20p on this dick it's 15p too much.
Well you say that, but I thought that about Bertrand last season, and look how he's doing under a proper manager.
Fair point
Cleverley would be better going back to Man u and then getting loaned out again next season. None Villa fans will think we as a club, are simply shit, so it cant all be Cleverley fault
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Cleverley is shit. Not constructive perhaps but if we spend 20p on this dick it's 15p too much.
Well you say that, but I thought that about Bertrand last season, and look how he's doing under a proper manager.
Cleverley is still shit.
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Cleverley is shit. Not constructive perhaps but if we spend 20p on this dick it's 15p too much.
Well you say that, but I thought that about Bertrand last season, and look how he's doing under a proper manager.
I agree Risso, there's definitely a good player there in my opinion but he needs inspiration from a decent manager.
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Cleverley is shit. Not constructive perhaps but if we spend 20p on this dick it's 15p too much.
Well you say that, but I thought that about Bertrand last season, and look how he's doing under a proper manager.
I agree Risso, there's definitely a good player there in my opinion but he needs inspiration from a decent manager.
I still think he's ok, not quite what I expected mind but that might be to do with the way we're set out to play?
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Cleverley is no better than El-Ahmadi. Average at everything. Not good at anything particular.
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BBC web site has gossip from the Daily Star that Cleverley will go to Everton. For once I hope the Star has got something right ;D
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Hope they haven't got any scouts watching him play for us...
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Cleverley is no better than El-Ahmadi. Average at everything. Not good at anything particular.
Exactly right.
Yet another 'functional central midfielder' who does nothing to influence the game going on around him.
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BBC web site has gossip from the Daily Star that Cleverley will go to Everton. For once I hope the Star has got something right ;D
Hoping he goes to Everton in January.
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Cleverley is no better than El-Ahmadi. Average at everything. Not good at anything particular.
Exactly right.
Yet another 'functional central midfielder' who does nothing to influence the game going on around him.
He has a bit of pace unlike KEA, but then he lacks his touch. I've found watching him deeply uninspiring.
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i was favourable when we signed cleverley on loan, i thought he would take this opportunity to show his worth and stick two fingers up to his critics.
he genuinely offers nothing.
he won't be missed at villa park.
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When we signed Cleverley I asked somebody who has watched him a lot to tell me what he does because I sure as hell didn't know.
He said, pass it sideways to somebody better than him basically.
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Thank god he will be a bosman, some other idiot will throw 100k (?) At him.
What will his signing bonus be?!
I guess you just have to say good luck to him!
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When we signed Cleverley I asked somebody who has watched him a lot to tell me what he does because I sure as hell didn't know.
He said, pass it sideways to somebody better than him basically.
Was the correct answer!
Which is why he's struggled with us.
;-)
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I've always thought Cleverley was a completely anonymous player who's there but does nothing useful and when we were linked to him for 8m I was gutted that we were looking at wasting pretty much our entire summer budget on someone so uninspiring. When it became clear he was coming I decided to give him a fair shot and I've tried my hardest to avoid commenting on him since but I have to be honest in thinking that my initial opinion of a player has never been more accurate.
The sooner his loan ends the better for me, complete nothing player who is actually a backward step from KEA who I've beena big critic of because at least KEA would break into the box and try to get involved and got a few goals for his trouble), Cleverley just sort of hovers around in the middle of the park making predictable runs to safe areas, playing predictable passes to safe places and making a show of defending without actually doing much.
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I think we're stuck with him until the end of the season.
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I think we're stuck with him until the end of the season.
Do we not have a return option in Jan ?
I'm not one for booing villa players but I class him as a Yanited scum cast off and I would not feel bad booing him.
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I think Lambert wants to keep him so won't stick him on the bench in case he gets all hurt and offended and goes to Everton at the end of the season.
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One thing is for sure, he don't want to play for Aston Villa.
I bet all you smug atheists are feeling ready stupid now, what?
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I thought he would come and show what he did at Wigan, but the truth is he has been in quite frankly useless at either end and like a jelly in the middle. There is no substance to his play at all. Better off with Sylla getting games or giving Daniel Johnson a run... Or spending a few million on a genuinely good forward thinking central midfielder. Oh for an Ian Taylor now.
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I think Lambert wants to keep him so won't stick him on the bench in case he gets all hurt and offended and goes to Everton at the end of the season.
I'd say he's already made that decision.
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If he was any good he'd have shone in a shit team, he hasn't so goodbye
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Better off ... giving Daniel Johnson a run...
I actually think this is a good shout: the kid has been around a bit and may play the MF role well, as Sylla did in that cameo half-season.
Unfortunately, I also agree with others that Lambert has a crush on Cleverley.
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We shouldn't sign him but he's not a bad player and I could see him doing pretty well in the right set up
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We shouldn't sign him but he's not a bad player and I could see him doing pretty well in the right set up
Wolves
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He's crap. Not what we need. Bin the loan, use the money elsewhere. He adds nothing more, Westwood part two, so play Westwood instead.
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your post is just 22 words too long
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He's like a poor mans Jamie Ohara
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he's just poor.
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He's just a pound shop Steve Sidwell
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I think we have him to the end of the season so lets see if adds anything with Carles Gill in midfield. From what we have seen so far it doesnt seem very likely does it... but you never know.
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I always forget he's on the pitch.
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I always forget he's on the pitch.
Me too. The Villa player you forgot played for us while you are actually watching him play for us.
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He's just a pound shop Steve Sidwell
c'mon he's not that good.
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What gets me is how poor he has been at shooting - albeit only had a few chances, but he shanks the ball so badly.
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I always forget he's on the pitch.
And when I do notice him I tend to think it's Weimann....
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I always forget he's on the pitch.
And when I do notice him I tend to think it's Weimann....
Glad that it's not just me then.
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He's just a pound shop Steve Sidwell
c'mon he's not that good.
Ok maybe a 99p shop Lee Catermole or a B&M version of Karl Henry
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Presume he'll be benched tomorrow with Delph back and Sanchez on form?
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Presume he'll be benched tomorrow with Delph back and Sanchez on form?
It honestly wouldn't shock me if he left out Sanchez.
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I get the impression tom Cleverly is one of the first names on the team sheet with lambert.
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I get the impression tom Cleverly is one of the first names on the team sheet with lambert.
I wonder if it's part of the loan agreement? Probably not, but he does seem to be heavily favoured for such an ordinary player.
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I get the impression tom Cleverly is one of the first names on the team sheet with lambert.
I wonder if it's part of the loan agreement? Probably not, but he does seem to be heavily favoured for such an ordinary player.
That's another thing I don't like about lambert. Hes very MON when it comes to favouring his players .
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I get the impression tom Cleverly is one of the first names on the team sheet with lambert.
I wonder if it's part of the loan agreement? Probably not, but he does seem to be heavily favoured for such an ordinary player.
It will be interesting to see what he does. He always plays Westwood, Sanchez doesn't deserved to be dropped and Delph would come straight back in you would have thought, unless he plays all four across the middle.
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We can't afford two bloody Westwoods in midfield.
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There was a very nice piece of fast skill from Cleverley in the second half today. Perhaps he will step up to the mark in the right formation.
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He looked better in the second half. I was disappointed that his name got some booing when announced in the warm up. I haven't been impressed with him so far but thought that was a bit out of order.
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He was a lot more effective today.
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Had a good game today,moved the ball faster than Westy does,balance looked ok in midfield .
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Thought he had a good game today.
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have to say that probably the most impressive thing about Sherwood thus far is that Cleverley looks like a very good player. And I hope that if we're in the Prem next year that Cleverley is there with us also.
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As I have said before I do believe there is a very decent player in Cleverley and TS seems to know which buttons to press. Played very well Tuesday and for me today one of our top 3-4 players. I think he can also contribute a few goals as he was quite prolific in the past. That will come with confidence.
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I don't find myself moaning about him playing now. I wouldn't get carried away about signing him just yet - I want to see more from him, like adding goals and assists to his game.
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he's in the Miror today ( I know its the mirror) saying he's leaving at end of season to join Everton. after his last few performances I'm really not sure how I feel about this. wouldn't mind him staying if he improves on the pitch
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after seeing the pictures of him and his Towie gf in Hale in last week's DM I would think he's either house hunting or he's still living up there.So it looks like it'll be Everton, his girlie must prefer Cheshire Oaks to the Fort!!
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He can stay if he keeps playing like this, but think he will be back to his old self up at Everton. I am sure Sherwood can find a suitable replacement.
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I'm not fussed by him I think there is better out there
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Well lets hope Everton go down then and then we don't want him.
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He is working four times as hard under Sherwood. It's quite an English trait, but it's a lot more palatable as a fan to see effort even if there isn't much execution. That said I think he has played alright.
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I thought he was very good, he played with a lot of energy and tenacity.
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Not at all bothered about him going to Everton. Yes he's been better recently but that wasn't particularly difficult.
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He was very good again.
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He looked woeful under Lambert. Looks a much better player under Sherwood. If he keeps that up, then he'd be a decent free transfer.
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Is he on a free at the end of the season, he's been very good last 3 or 4 games.
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He's going to be asking for a fatty Bosman style wage and I think there's more productive players available for that kind of outlay.
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The difference is passing the ball forward and being positive. Although it's reflected throughout the whole team though.
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Think I will have to watch yesterday's game back as I don't remember him being that good. But then that might have been more me just getting caught up in the atmoshere and not noticing his performance so much. Midfield is the main area I would look to strengthen in the summer. We need more of a goal threat and better creative players from those positions. That and a new striker to replace Benteke who sadly I do think will be moving on. Cleverly can go too. Despite his improvement I just don't think he is good enough in the long term for us unless we end up in the Championship of course :-X
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Think I will have to watch yesterday's game back as I don't remember him being that good. But then that might have been more me just getting caught up in the atmoshere and not noticing his performance so much. Midfield is the main area I would look to strengthen in the summer. We need more of a goal threat and better creative players from those positions. That and a new striker to replace Benteke who sadly I do think will be moving on. Cleverly can go too. Despite his improvement I just don't think he is good enough in the long term for us unless we end up in the Championship of course :-X
As I have said previously Cleverly was the pick of a poor bunch in the first half. Lets watch and see. I also thought Sanchez was very influential when he came on.
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Think I will have to watch yesterday's game back as I don't remember him being that good. But then that might have been more me just getting caught up in the atmoshere and not noticing his performance so much. Midfield is the main area I would look to strengthen in the summer. We need more of a goal threat and better creative players from those positions. That and a new striker to replace Benteke who sadly I do think will be moving on. Cleverly can go too. Despite his improvement I just don't think he is good enough in the long term for us unless we end up in the Championship of course :-X
As I have said previously Cleverly was the pick of a poor bunch in the first half. Lets watch and see. I also thought Sanchez was very influential when he came on.
Yeah bringing Sanchez on was a good sub because we did need to tighter up. I would like to see him start games as I think he would give the other midfielders more freedom.
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Sherwood's done the right thing by getting us play more freely with a core of players but bringing on the less experienced Premier League players when things are going well, rather than expecting them to know what to do from the start. It's good man-management to keep them involved and to only use them in the right circumstances.
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Fair play to Tom Cleverley. He worked his bollocks off today and was instrumental in the first goal today. He goes unnoticed most of the time, but between him and Delph we have a really energetic, hardworking pair of midfielders. Would be happy if stayed at the club.
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He was excellent today.
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I hope we keep both our loan signings now. If we can get both on good deals that would be great.
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As i have said before there is a decent footballer in there. Now the Anti-football Christ has gone and a manager with half an idea of how to communicate effectively with players we are starting to see it. Credit to him for turning perception around.
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I'd gladly pay his taxi back to Old Trafford based on how he played under Lamjerk, that said I'd have gladly done the same for most of our senior players. I think we are seeing him get better and better now.
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I'm beginning to think Lambert's miserable approach to being our manager polluted the very water the players drank from. We are now seeing such a fresh approach to the game and every player looks so alive. Very much including Cleverley in that.
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Imagine if Lambert had remained manager until the end of the season and we were left thinking Cleverley was the player he was under Lambert. If then went and looked a player elsewhere we would have been pissed that he hadn't done that for us.
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Fair play to cleverly after leaving the ground today stopping for photos and autographs with some of the villa fans.
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Imagine we had gone into any game under Lambert with a 2 man central midfield of Cleverley and Delph. We would have been bricking it. Fair play to Sherwood for the balls to try it!
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Interesting we didn't really play a holding midfielder today.
Very very attacking approach.
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Imagine we had gone into any game under Lambert with a 2 man central midfield of Cleverley and Delph. We would have been bricking it. Fair play to Sherwood for the balls to try it!
He would have had them in a deep defensive formation though and they wouldn't have been strong enough to stem the wave after wave of attacks from the opponents. Sherwood has allowed them the freedom to play football, be much more attacking while still enforcing the need to work really hard.
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Sherwood has proved already that you can expect to be suprised, i had never heard of the young kid he brought on at the end and he looked as bemused as i was. Agree with everything said about Cleverly, i noted the players got stuck into each other when the ball got turned over. it's a guessing game the team for next week.
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Sherwood has proved already that you can expect to be suprised, i had never heard of the young kid he brought on at the end and he looked as bemused as i was. Agree with everything said about Cleverly, i noted the players got stuck into each other when the ball got turned over. it's a guessing game the team for next week.
I was going to post last night exactly what you said re the players being annoyed when moves broke down, but it was late and I was full of Happy Juice. Wonderful to see that kind of passion instead of the frustration of shit football they'd been used to providing.
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Never thought I'd say this but it's really important he's back Tuesday. He adds a bit of forward thinking to our midfield.
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Never thought I'd say this but it's really important he's back Tuesday. He adds a bit of forward thinking to our midfield.
Agreed we have not looked as good without him.
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Never thought I'd say this but it's really important he's back Tuesday. He adds a bit of forward thinking to our midfield.
I'm not his biggest fan, but he seems like the least frantic choice. Tuesday will be a big game for our midfield, and him and Delph, if that's who Sherwood go with as holding midfielders, need to boss their opposite numbers. Barton is a thug who will be hyped up for this - calm heads and superior technique will be vital.
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We could get him on a free this summer couldn't we?
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Westwood isn't good enough, and I think though Sanchez didn't do too badly today, he's always 10 minutes away from the ball and just too slow. Delph has to cover so much ground because Sanchez plays like the fat kid in a game of piggy in the middle.
Delph is far and away our best midfield player. Cleverley is second best and probably some way ahead of the others to be honest (at least since TS took over).
We've missed him in the last couple of games.
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Is he fit for Tuesday?
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Is he fit for Tuesday?
Is who fit...........
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I hope we are able to keep Cleverley. Played really well again yesterday. He works hard and connects the play well. He's developing a good relationship with Delph too.
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He's another example of Lamberts totally inept management, he's looking a very tidy player now alongside Delph.
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If we could get Cleverley & Sinclair for 8m in total it would be great business.
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If we could get Cleverley & Sinclair for 8m in total it would be great business.
Isn't the Sinclair fee around 3m? ...and Cleverly will be a free but on crazy wages.
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It would be closer to 3m if Cleverley is on a free.
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If we could get Cleverley & Sinclair for 8m in total it would be great business.
Isn't the Sinclair fee around 3m? ...and Cleverly will be a free but on crazy wages.
Wages are not so much of a problem if there's no transfer fee.
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If we could get Cleverley & Sinclair for 8m in total it would be great business.
Isn't the Sinclair fee around 3m? ...and Cleverly will be a free but on crazy wages.
Wages are not so much of a problem if there's no transfer fee.
Apart from the precedent that it sets with other players although clever accounting - signing on fees etc - can somewhat get around this risk.
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If we can sign cleverly it would be great, since sherwood arrived we have seen what TC can do, same with Sinclair, looks a very good player.
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Under Lambert he looked as a pub player, but he is very improved in the last few games. He could form a good pair with Delph, defensive central midfielder Cleverley, box to box midfielder Delph. We need a third figure in the midfield with more pace and quality than Sanchez, that apart from 2 or 3 games in which was outstanding seems to play for the opponents for the quantity of balls that he loses.
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I hope we can keep him. He plays very well next to Delph, as they're both very versatile and can attack and break up play.
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Cleverley has always worked hard and was never afraid to try things while some hId. But under the Lambert 'system' it was like having a sports car but only being allowed to drive it in a car park. He now has more movement around him with other players to link up with, and as a team it's more positive looking.
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I hope we are able to keep Cleverley. Played really well again yesterday. He works hard and connects the play well. He's developing a good relationship with Delph too.
Agree and on this form, getting him on a free would be a great bit of business.
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Under Lambert he looked as a pub player, but he is very improved in the last few games. He could form a good pair with Delph, defensive central midfielder Cleverley, box to box midfielder Delph. We need a third figure in the midfield with more pace and quality than Sanchez, that apart from 2 or 3 games in which was outstanding seems to play for the opponents for the quantity of balls that he loses.
Agree. Cleverley and Delph are doing well, we just need a quality player who can sit in behind them who can pick out the passes. Westwood is good on the ball, but doesn't really have the athleticism or physicality, whereas Sanchez is the opposite really. We probably need an upgrade on those two to move us forward.
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I thought he started off quite well but then tailed off badly, especially as he was often playing wide left or wide right which isn't his position
We'd be mad not to take him on a free. But I'm not sure we were ever his first choice and I'm not sure his experiences on the pitch or with the fans will have made him want to stay. Perhaps he fancies staying in the NW or with Martinez but the rumours of going to Everton have been consistently strong
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I thought a fee had been agreed at the start of the season long loan (£8m)?
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Under Lambert he looked as a pub player, but he is very improved in the last few games. He could form a good pair with Delph, defensive central midfielder Cleverley, box to box midfielder Delph. We need a third figure in the midfield with more pace and quality than Sanchez, that apart from 2 or 3 games in which was outstanding seems to play for the opponents for the quantity of balls that he loses.
Agree. Cleverley and Delph are doing well, we just need a quality player who can sit in behind them who can pick out the passes. Westwood is good on the ball, but doesn't really have the athleticism or physicality, whereas Sanchez is the opposite really. We probably need an upgrade on those two to move us forward.
Agreed, go get Oxlaid -Chamerlain that midfield would be a top 4
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I imagine Sherwood is really knarked about the Gardner loan to Forest.
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I thought a fee had been agreed at the start of the season long loan (£8m)?
Apparently so. We can't of course be sure. That fee was put in place in case we made the deal permanent in Jan.
I think a bit of ambition is in order for the summer. Regardless of who is in charge. Our main competitor for his signiture will be Everton. They're not reknowned for huge wages, so I think we should be able to compete with them on that front. The question will be whether TC thinks we're moving in a good direction, and also whether or not Evertons season was merely a blip.
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I'd imagine if we sign him, we will still have to make a significant payment to Utd. Its pretty stupid loaning a player out for the last year of his contract otherwise.
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They can't demand money for a product that doesn't belong to them.
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He's been very good of late and I'd like him to stay, but I think he'll go to Everton.
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Everton are renowned for big wages. That's why they've been able to get barry, lukaku and retain others like baines, fellaini for longer than we held on to our best players
I just hope we can finish the season with sufficient form to encourage him to stay. I doubt there are many other free transfers on offer who we could get that are as good as he's been of late
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Not forgetting Eto'o also.
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They can't demand money for a product that doesn't belong to them.
I'm sure they could have written something into the loan agreement that states if we sign him on a free transfer after the loan expires, we have to compensate them.
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I thought a fee had been agreed at the start of the season long loan (£8m)?
Apparently so. We can't of course be sure. That fee was put in place in case we made the deal permanent in Jan.
I think a bit of ambition is in order for the summer. Regardless of who is in charge. Our main competitor for his signiture will be Everton. They're not reknowned for huge wages, so I think we should be able to compete with them on that front. The question will be whether TC thinks we're moving in a good direction, and also whether or not Evertons season was merely a blip.
And also whether we get taken over, and by whom.
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They can't demand money for a product that doesn't belong to them.
I'm sure they could have written something into the loan agreement that states if we sign him on a free transfer after the loan expires, we have to compensate them.
How can they do that if he's out of contract? Or, to put it another way, if they do, he is then still under contract. If he decides he wants to go to Everton do they have to pay a fee too?
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They can't demand money for a product that doesn't belong to them.
I'm sure they could have written something into the loan agreement that states if we sign him on a free transfer after the loan expires, we have to compensate them.
How can they do that if he's out of contract? Or, to put it another way, if they do, he is then still under contract. If he decides he wants to go to Everton do they have to pay a fee too?
I may be completely wrong on this.
But no other team would have to pay a fee as he's obviously a bosman in the summer.
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They can't demand money for a product that doesn't belong to them.
I'm sure they could have written something into the loan agreement that states if we sign him on a free transfer after the loan expires, we have to compensate them.
How can they do that if he's out of contract? Or, to put it another way, if they do, he is then still under contract. If he decides he wants to go to Everton do they have to pay a fee too?
I may be completely wrong on this.
But no other team would have to pay a fee as he's obviously a bosman in the summer.
I remember having this discussion on here before, and I just can't see how it would be enforceable. If he can sign for whoever he wants to but if it's us then we need to pay ManYoo £8m. Surely when we agree that, we tacitly accept that he won't be signing for us - because any other club can potentially offer double or triple the wages that we would because of our initial outlay.
However, I also can't see how ManYoo would agree an £8m fee in August and then be willing to effectively write it off by just sending him on loan for the year with nothing in place.
If the agreement is there, why couldn't we just do what Spurs did with Zeki Fryers - he joins another club on a short-term contract, we slip them half a million as a 'transfer fee' to make it worth their while and he joins us a few weeks later, Unsworth-style.
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Do bosmans still apply in full if the player has been at the club since a youth?
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Only if the player is under 24 isn't it? Burnley should get a bit for Ings even though they didn't develop him.
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That's it.
And the rules are then different to going abroad or to another UK club - so he's apparently moving to Liverpool or Real Sociedad. If he stays in England, Burnley can expect around £5m in compensation, it he goes to Spain they get around £250,000.
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I thought Villa have first option to buy him on a permanent deal when the loan ends?
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Doubt it, he's be a free agent to go where he chooses.
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I imagine Sherwood is really knarked about the Gardner loan to Forest.
The football league season finishes a few weeks before the Premier League this season and with Forest not making the play offs, he'll be back for the last few games.
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I want him to stay. I have a soft spot for players who have a high work rate (see also Weimann).
Unfortunately I think he will be off to Everton
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I thought Villa have first option to buy him on a permanent deal when the loan ends?
Villa had first refusal to sign him if anyone else wanted to sign him permanently in January, the activation fee being £8M.
eg. Everton came back in and offer Man Utd £9M for him, we get the right to offer the £8M to keep him.
We say no thanks, he goes to Everton for £9M.
No-one did anything so he stays on loan with us until season end, presumably with a loan fee involved.
Under the current circumstances he's free to go wherever he likes, as he is no longer under contract to anyone. If we he decides he wants to stay and we want him to stay, it will be on a free agent basis, i.e. bloody huge signing on fee to Cleverley instead of transfer fee to Man Utd.
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Man Utd must be gutted he was so hopeless until February.
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Unlikely but I wonder how much of Cleverly's poor form was by design?
Arguably he will personally get more of the money now he is a free agent compared to if he was transferred.
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Unlikely but I wonder how much of Cleverly's poor form was by design?
Arguably he will personally get more of the money now he is a free agent compared to if he was transferred.
The only design that caused his poor form was the system put forward by Lambert
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It's being now reported in a few places that we will be offering him a contract in the summer and no fee is being mentioned. If that is the case, it's a complete steal. He has really come on leaps and bounds since Sherwood came in. Add in Sinclair for 3m or so, and that is top business by the club.
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It's being now reported in a few places that we will be offering him a contract in the summer and no fee is being mentioned. If that is the case, it's a complete steal. He has really come on leaps and bounds since Sherwood came in. Add in Sinclair for 3m or so, and that is top business by the club.
If that happens I would be delighted.
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He's started to look like the player he once threatened to be in recent weeks. Be a very decent 'free' transfer.
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I reckon he'll be picked up by someone else, which would be a shame as he's looked good of late.
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He's being linked with all kinds of clubs now...albeit by very, very questionable news sources. I guess that means his agent is doing an alright job then.
Or maybe it's the TC23 website that's doing the trick
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I wonder if he still wants to go to Everton? They are not showing any signs that they may progress next season whiilst we could be going places with new owners installed. He has always put in the effort even when things were going wrong. Now he has taken his game to a new level so the interest will be forthcoming.
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Never been a big fan, he has improved under Sherwood, but not enough to suggest that he will make too much of a difference for us in the long run. Think we need more of a goal threat in midfield or someone with a better final pass or cross than Cleverley.
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I guess he will be ok on a free. Still not sure about him.
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I like him. Does everything that Sanchez and Westwood can do but better. He was dodgy at first but he's been easily our best midfielder these last couple of months and is now showing what a player he is.
Sign him up, Villa.
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I like him. Does everything that Sanchez and Westwood can do but better. He was dodgy at first but he's been easily our best midfielder these last couple of months and is now showing what a player he is.
Sign him up, Villa.
He's improved the last few games, but I dunno if I'd say last couple of months.
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I like him. Does everything that Sanchez and Westwood can do but better. He was dodgy at first but he's been easily our best midfielder these last couple of months and is now showing what a player he is.
Sign him up, Villa.
He's improved the last few games, but I dunno if I'd say last couple of months.
I think he has. He wasn't the best when he first came but I still think he was better than Westwood and Sanchez but was given a rough ride by the fans for some reason. Perhaps because he was on loan.
Whatever happens in the summer the midfield has to be a priority. It's as weak as water.
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He's looked a better player since Sherwood has been there. He was dire under Lambert.
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I wouldn't say dire, he struck me as being just a nothing player. I didn't know what he was meant to be, what he was meant to be doing. Judging by his drive of late, perhaps the blame shouldn't be laid at his door. He needs a goal now, and I can't think of a better time than this weekend to bag one. Something in the 20-yard screamer department, son, if you wouldn't mind.
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Better than Westwood.
Sanchez is a different type of player so can't/silly to compare.
If he wants to be here, fine. If he'd rather go to Everton etc, no great loss!
But we do need to strengthen midfield! Big time!
We need "better", not "more of the same".
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I like him. Does everything that Sanchez and Westwood can do but better. He was dodgy at first but he's been easily our best midfielder these last couple of months and is now showing what a player he is.
Sign him up, Villa.
I would say Delph's easily been our best midfielder in the last couple of months.
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That damning with faint praise, OCD. He's certainly been the best for 45 minutes every game. Delph hopefully will start turning up from the first minute but we shouldn't forget, he's still young and has had to try and grow in a team where the midfield has been a distraction in the manager's eyes.
Over the season I'd give him 6.5/10.
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TC has looked good since Sherwood came in. He's had more effect in the final third.
To be honest there's one or two players who were written off under Lambert who may well have a turnaround in form under Sherwood. I'm curious to see if he can get Cissokho playing well again, as Aly had started off reasonably well in the first 6-7 games. He gradually got ground down to mediocrity. He's not featured much for Sherwood as yet.
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I wouldn't say dire, he struck me as being just a nothing player. I didn't know what he was meant to be, what he was meant to be doing. Judging by his drive of late, perhaps the blame shouldn't be laid at his door. He needs a goal now, and I can't think of a better time than this weekend to bag one. Something in the 20-yard screamer department, son, if you wouldn't mind.
THIS
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My issue with Cleverley has always been that he's an anonymous midfielder, he doesn't do anything wrong but he doesn't do anything memorable either. Even in the last month he's looked tidy and been involved but I don't think he's had much influence. I've seen a few people call him man of the match for games where I can't really recall him doing much. I'm not talking about killer through balls or 30 yard screamers, he's clearly not going to do that but intelligent runs, creating space and changing the point of the attack are all things I'd expect and I just don't see enough of it from him.
On a free for a decent wage he'd be worth giving a contract but the reality is he'd be asking for wages up around those that Benteke is on as a minimum and he's just not worth that.
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For me, the thing that always gets overlooked with Cleverley is his engine. I haven't seen any individual stats for recent games, but I'd wager that he must cover more ground than anybody else in our side, Delph included. The other thing is the speed at which he does it. He's constantly sprinting to close opposition players down.
I think he often appears to be anonymous, even when playing well, because of the speed that he moves the ball on. If you watch him closely you can see that his positioning and body-shape are often very good, enabling him to play first time-balls, lay-offs, etc. Delph, on the other hand, has a habit of taking too many touches and slowing the game down unnecessarily, in my opinion. I actually don't think Cleverley has done much differently under Sherwood either - I just think we're noticing it more now because the movement (both ahead of him and from the full-backs getting forward) is so drastically improved.
I really rate Cleverley, and think he'll continue to improve under Sherwood IF he stays.
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For me, the thing that always gets overlooked with Cleverley is his engine. I haven't seen any individual stats for recent games, but I'd wager that he must cover more ground than anybody else in our side, Delph included. The other thing is the speed at which he does it. He's constantly sprinting to close opposition players down.
I think he often appears to be anonymous, even when playing well, because of the speed that he moves the ball on. If you watch him closely you can see that his positioning and body-shape are often very good, enabling him to play first time-balls, lay-offs, etc. Delph, on the other hand, has a habit of taking too many touches and slowing the game down unnecessarily, in my opinion. I actually don't think Cleverley has done much differently under Sherwood either - I just think we're noticing it more now because the movement (both ahead of him and from the full-backs getting forward) is so drastically improved.
I really rate Cleverley, and think he'll continue to improve under Sherwood IF he stays.
I agree with that Russell. My only real gripe with him (and Delph to some extent) is they don't really have much impact in the final third in terms of assists and goals. If he signs for us, I'd like to see us buy a quality defensive midfielder so that they can have that bit more freedom to go forward. They both have the ability to get 5-10 goals a season.
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That damning with faint praise, OCD. He's certainly been the best for 45 minutes every game. Delph hopefully will start turning up from the first minute but we shouldn't forget, he's still young and has had to try and grow in a team where the midfield has been a distraction in the manager's eyes.
Over the season I'd give him 6.5/10.
I think that's a fair score. He was at best a 6 prior to Sherwood and consistently a 7 or 8 since. He does a lot of the dirty work behind the scenes. He runs all game breaks up play. Not the glamorous stuff by any means but it does allow others to their job. He's now playing in a system which actually uses him as opposed to defending for 90 minutes in his own half. He has a good range of passing and is quick to see an opportunity (e.g pass for first goal at Sunderland) even if it doesn't always come off (long range pass towards Gabby that was fractionally long at Spurs). I like him and certainly on a free.
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I don't think his lack of goals/assists is solely a matter of role, but rather ability. I'm of the opinion that it's perfectly possible for a midfielder to get 8-10 goals a season starting fairly deep from midfield (like Cleverley has been) if you've got the understanding as to how to do it properly - otherwise so-so players like Kevin Nolan or (going back) Gus Poyet wouldn't have the goalscoring records they have. I don't really see that in Cleverley.
He either needs to improve that or work on extending his passing range. I know there's plenty to criticise about Westwood, and Cleverley's style suits Sherwood's up-tempo approach more, but would the latter have conceived and successfully executed that throughball to Gabby to win the Norwich game in 2013? I mean, some of his forward passing at Sunderland and Spurs was quite good, but I don't think they required that much precision. He obviously knows how to play the short pass-and-move game very well, but developing that variety would help him as a footballer (hopefully with us going forward.)
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I really hope we keep him he was brilliant today.
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He was tremendous today
I hope we sign him up
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Awesome, like a rabid dog.
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I saw some fact today somewhere that he made more interceptions than Plops middle 3 put together, top performance.
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For a free transfer its an absolute no brainier
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For a free transfer its an absolute no brainier
Yeah I'm sure we'll offer it's whether he signs.
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He was tremendous today
I hope we sign him up
Me too. Love his effort. I bet he'll pick us over Everton as things currently stand.
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He was tremendous today
I hope we sign him up
This
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There's a video of the team after the semi. Watch that and you'd definitely put your money on him choosing Villa over Everton.
I think he is worth a bit of a punt, wages wise, because at United he had that buzzing intensity and some of Carrick's vision. Not to mention we will have Europe to worry about.
I'm guessing he might be a confidence player - due to the difference between his high/low period - which means Sherwood could be perfect for him.
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There's a video of the team after the semi. Watch that and you'd definitely put your money on him choosing Villa over Everton.
Do you have a link?
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I absolutely hope we keep him, he's been superb. In him, Benteke and Delph we have the spine of a very good team.
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There's a video of the team after the semi. Watch that and you'd definitely put your money on him choosing Villa over Everton.
Do you have a link?
No. I think it was on the videos and photos from wembley thread, possibly even via the official site.
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Benteke and Delph we have the spine of a very good team.
+ Guzan
+ Clark
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Just watched the game again. Amazing how much Cleverly wanted and was involved in the game. Sometimes endearingly so. In the first half there was a spell where he was doing give & go's one after another and then chasing down loose balls, at one point he passed the ball 4 yards to Delph who passed it to grealish, the whole time Cleverly is there screaming at them both with his hands pointing to his feet wanting the ball back like that kid on the playground who is just discovering he is actually good at the game and wants the ball ALL the time.
Great to see.
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I owe Tom Cleverley an apology big time, under Lambert I couldn't see anything in him but since Sherwood has taken over he has proved to me that I know sweet fuck all about football. Well done TC I hope you will forgive me (and many others) and sign for Aston Villa.
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It all comes down to will we have different backers next season and how much money they are prepared to spend. Benteke will be in great demand and can ask for big money, cleverly less so but still a sizeable amount, just glad we have Delph signed up.
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I wonder if team spirit will have any influence over each of their decisions...I see a great team spirit and togetherness building within this squad, and it would be a shame to lose any of that if a few of the dressing room characters left at this stage. The coverage of the dressing room celebrations could actually be the catalyst for the start of building something special under Tim Sherwood.
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Will be honest I am not a big Cleverley fan, but I am more open to keeping him now than I would have been a few weeks ago. Long term is a different matter of course and I think we should still be looking for better.
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I saw some fact today somewhere that he made more interceptions than Plops middle 3 put together, top performance.
That's why he is important. Like Petrov was, you don't appreciate this type of player until they aren't playing.
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I saw some fact today somewhere that he made more interceptions than Plops middle 3 put together, top performance.
That's why he is important. Like Petrov was, you don't appreciate this type of player until they aren't playing.
Yes, but you can say that now because it has become more true over the last few weeks. But we need to be that important consistently. If we keep him next season then that will be the real test.
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I kind of love him now. Beforehand, he was the epitome of our combination of worthy effort and total ineffectiveness - it was genuinely dispiriting to see his name in the team at 2pm every Saturday. Now, all that effort is paying off. He never stops running, he retains the ball really well, he's always available for the pass and he's always looking to do something positive. Delighted with him recently - let's hope he keeps it up.
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I love how he couldn't contain his joy at Delph's goal, he breaks off from the team to celebrate with the fans.
That's a really positive image, from a player we don't even own.
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I kind of love him now. Beforehand, he was the epitome of our combination of worthy effort and total ineffectiveness - it was genuinely dispiriting to see his name in the team at 2pm every Saturday. Now, all that effort is paying off. He never stops running, he retains the ball really well, he's always available for the pass and he's always looking to do something positive. Delighted with him recently - let's hope he keeps it up.
Across the entire midfield, regardless of who's playing or what formation, that's been the most noticeable change over the last few weeks. If you look back at the last few games under Lambert, everyone was bemoaning the lack of movement and the sideways, sideways back to keeper, hoof was driving everyone mad.
The difference has been most noticeable in Cleverley, partly because his industry is now more noticeable as the attacking intentions require that level of effort and hard work to cover the gaps and mop up break aways before they have chance to get very far.
The work rate and fitness levels of him and Delph are vital too the way we're playing these days. Long may it continue.
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Growing on me like a rash. His interview on the FA site is interesting, if only for the last line, where he says he wants to win the cup and be back at Wembley for the charity shield. I think the longer he works with Tim, the more likely he is to sign on.
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He'll have a few options at the of the season:
a. be a bit part player for one of the top 6 teams (if any of them come in for him).
b. be a regular player in any number of mid table teams.
c. continue what he's started with TS and be a key player for Villa.
His wage demands could be a stumbling block so hope he doesn't revert to type and turn too greedy.
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Such a different player under Sherwood.Close to MOTM for me me yesterday always looking for ball and chases around pressurizing the opposition.
Seeing now Fergie rated him so highly
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I love how he couldn't contain his joy at Delph's goal, he breaks off from the team to celebrate with the fans.
That's a really positive image, from a player we don't even own.
If you noticed it was both him and Delph ahead of Benteke in the box for the second goal and this was when Charles was still on the pitch.
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Enjoyed watching his busy performance yesterday just as much as I enjoyed watching the guile of Grealish.
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On the way back from Wembley fueled by alcohol last night we penned many songs for individual players. Our best effort which was well received was for Tom Cleverley.
To the tune of Chim Chimmeney....
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
Now he's a bastard in Claret and Blue
Repeat
Short, easy to remember and a nice bit of swearing to add effect.
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On the way back from Wembley fueled by alcohol last night we penned many songs for individual players. Our best effort which was well received was for Tom Cleverley.
To the tune of Chim Chimmeney....
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
Now he's a bastard in Claret and Blue
Repeat
Short, easy to remember and a nice bit of swearing to add effect.
Like.
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On the way back from Wembley fueled by alcohol last night we penned many songs for individual players. Our best effort which was well received was for Tom Cleverley.
To the tune of Chim Chimmeney....
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
Now he's a bastard in Claret and Blue
Repeat
Short, easy to remember and a nice bit of swearing to add effect.
Me too. Needs more swear words though....
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On the way back from Wembley fueled by alcohol last night we penned many songs for individual players. Our best effort which was well received was for Tom Cleverley.
To the tune of Chim Chimmeney....
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
Now he's a bastard in Claret and Blue
Repeat
Short, easy to remember and a nice bit of swearing to add effect.
Me too. Needs more swear words though....
I've tried tweaking it.
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley, you unexpectedly magic fucker
Fucked off Man U, the massive, massive ******
Now he's a bad motherfucker in Claret and Blue
Might need to rework the tune, mind.
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I'm sure he'd love being called a bastard. Probably more than he liked getting booed by The Holte when his name was read out during the warm-up mind.
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
Now he's a Villan in Claret and Blue
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I'm loving this real sense of positivity around the club right now. Two months ago we were probably looking at Vlaar leaving in the summer. Cleverley was heading away in the summer, probably never to return and Benteke looked like he wanted rescuing.
Now we've got Vlaar open to staying on. Cleverley seems like he would probably like to carry on here for Sherwood and I think Benteke is loving playing for Tim too. Short of us getting a silly offer we're in no need of selling and I don't see Benteke pushing for a move if one isn't forthcoming.
Hopefully this summer is the start of building something positive and seeing us heading up a level or two in the table.
Sherwood has well and truly brought the feel good factor back. The seedlings of some good times look like they're in place too. He's delivering some good football and players seem to enjoy playing for him.
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Based on what we've seen of him in recent weeks, would make a very decent 'free' transfer.
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I'm sure he'd love being called a bastard. Probably more than he liked getting booed by The Holte when his name was read out during the warm-up mind.
Tom Cleverley Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
Now he's a Villan in Claret and Blue
Probably. But we don't want him to forget the Everton link so the bastard has to stand.
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Outside of the initial saga in deadline day regarding where else gas it been written with quotes that he wants to go to Everton? I've not seen anything recently. Him and his wife were looking at houses in Birmingham, and he looks really happy right now celebrating goals and just being a part of the club. I can't see him leaving if the club make him a contract offer he agrees to.
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Outside of the initial saga in deadline day regarding where else gas it been written with quotes that he wants to go to Everton? I've not seen anything recently. Him and his wife were looking at houses in Birmingham, and he looks really happy right now celebrating goals and just being a part of the club. I can't see him leaving if the club make him a contract offer he agrees to.
The majority of any talk seems to be from the other side, in that Martinez really rates him very highly.
Looking at both sides right now though. I'd say Villa look a better bet for doing something next season. Everton don't normally splash out a lot of money (without having sold players) and they've used up all the Fellaini money. If they are to have another big financial outlay this window then Baines or Barkley will have to be sold.
Player for player there's very little between the sides. They've vastly underperformed this year of course, and over-performed last year in finishing fifth, but in terms of quality they're somewhere in that 6th-9th band. I think with the right signings we could be in that area again. We don't have to spend big, just sensibly. 20 mill could get us a long way and that shouldn't be out of our means given the TV money etc. Even if Randy stays on, he needs to back Sherwood. We're not in need of a huge rebuild. We just need to iron out a few creases at fullback and get more midfield options.
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Not long ago we were saying how desperately we need to strengthen midfield in the summer. All of a sudden Delph, TC, Westwood, Grealish, GG, Gil and Sanchez are looking like a tidy little firm, especially if the latter two can lively up themselves a bit.
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Outside of the initial saga in deadline day regarding where else gas it been written with quotes that he wants to go to Everton? I've not seen anything recently. Him and his wife were looking at houses in Birmingham, and he looks really happy right now celebrating goals and just being a part of the club. I can't see him leaving if the club make him a contract offer he agrees to.
Think that was Sinclair.
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Outside of the initial saga in deadline day regarding where else gas it been written with quotes that he wants to go to Everton? I've not seen anything recently. Him and his wife were looking at houses in Birmingham, and he looks really happy right now celebrating goals and just being a part of the club. I can't see him leaving if the club make him a contract offer he agrees to.
Think that was Sinclair.
Yeh that's right. I haven't been able to keep up with all these celebs since eastie departed.
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Not long ago we were saying how desperately we need to strengthen midfield in the summer. All of a sudden Delph, TC, Westwood, Grealish, GG, Gil and Sanchez are looking like a tidy little firm, especially if the latter two can lively up themselves a bit.
In fairness to Gil he has hardly had opportunity. Strangely I think him and Grealish in those 10 roles behind Benteke would cause sides a whole world of problems.
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Felt a bit sad for Gil in that dressing room video after the match when all around him were going rental. He was sat at the side, smiling and no doubt happy for his colleagues but just gave the impression of an outsider looking-in.
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Yeah he looks a lost part in it all. I can see a swift return to Spain for a similar fee that we paid, which would be a huge shame. Unless of course he has been spotted by another manager in the Prem who comes in.
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How about,
Tom Cleverley, Tom Cleverley
Fucked off Man U
He'll kick you head in if you dare to boo.
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Carles Gil is obviously a very talented player. I think we all hope Tim Sherwood can find a use for him. He was on the bench for the semi final
so that is a good sign. I would have preferred to see Gil on the pitch instead of Cole who always looks totally knackered after about seven minutes!
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A good pre-season will make a big difference for Gil I think. I also think it'll help Carlos too.
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Can someone clear up if Cleverley is actually out of contract this summer and available on a free ?
I thought he was but that tool Franksey on WM keeps saying he's not and would cost 5-8m in the summer
The way his game has transformed under Sherwood is more damning of Lambert's terrible tactics and poor use of talent than any revelation in Tom's actual playing ability. Ditto Benteke
He hasn't suddenly transformed into something new, he's simply getting the bloody ball where he's always needed it
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Contract ends in the summer so he'd be on a free:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/14/tom-cleverley-aston-villa-tim-sherwood-contract
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Not long ago we were saying how desperately we need to strengthen midfield in the summer. All of a sudden Delph, TC, Westwood, Grealish, GG, Gil and Sanchez are looking like a tidy little firm, especially if the latter two can lively up themselves a bit.
In fairness to Gil he has hardly had opportunity. Strangely I think him and Grealish in those 10 roles behind Benteke would cause sides a whole world of problems.
My thoughts too, Oz. The lad has so much class it's only a matter of time before gets his chance. I can't believe Sherwood can't see it, maybe having both Grealish and Gil in the team may seem too lightweight for the end of season fight we have right now.
As for Cleverly, he seems to be loving it all at Villa. I'd imagine he's desperate to stay.
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4 months ago, Tom Cleverly looked like Stephen Ireland MkII (with hair version).
Now I'd be gutted if he didn't stay, he's a very good player.
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Always appreciated his work rate but with movement in front of him from the strikers which he wasn't getting pre-Sherwood he's been very good. Him and Delph have to start for me, with Westwood and Sanchez competing for the other midfield role.
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Always appreciated his work rate but with movement in front of him from the strikers which he wasn't getting pre-Sherwood he's been very good. Him and Delph have to start for me, with Westwood and Sanchez competing for the other midfield role.
Yep. I still think a top quality defensive midfielder with a better range of passing than Sanchez and Westwood would make a difference, but those type of players cost a lot of money.
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Not long ago we were saying how desperately we need to strengthen midfield in the summer. All of a sudden Delph, TC, Westwood, Grealish, GG, Gil and Sanchez are looking like a tidy little firm, especially if the latter two can lively up themselves a bit.
In fairness to Gil he has hardly had opportunity. Strangely I think him and Grealish in those 10 roles behind Benteke would cause sides a whole world of problems.
My thoughts too, Oz. The lad has so much class it's only a matter of time before gets his chance. I can't believe Sherwood can't see it, maybe having both Grealish and Gil in the team may seem too lightweight for the end of season fight we have right now.
As for Cleverly, he seems to be loving it all at Villa. I'd imagine he's desperate to stay.
He has improved a lot under Sherwood and his celebrations after the quarter and semi finals show his heart is in it.
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Always appreciated his work rate but with movement in front of him from the strikers which he wasn't getting pre-Sherwood he's been very good. Him and Delph have to start for me, with Westwood and Sanchez competing for the other midfield role.
Yep. I still think a top quality defensive midfielder with a better range of passing than Sanchez and Westwood would make a difference, but those type of players cost a lot of money.
I think we got a bit lucky with Westwood coming in for Sanchez. Against a Stoke, or Albion even, Sanchez would be the better option, but against Liverpool it is much more suited to Westwood.
With Cleverley, Delph and one of those 2 behind though, there should be enough cover for Gil to thrive. NZogbia is now a real option which is good, but Gil looks more likely to create something.
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Always appreciated his work rate but with movement in front of him from the strikers which he wasn't getting pre-Sherwood he's been very good. Him and Delph have to start for me, with Westwood and Sanchez competing for the other midfield role.
Yep. I still think a top quality defensive midfielder with a better range of passing than Sanchez and Westwood would make a difference, but those type of players cost a lot of money.
I think we got a bit lucky with Westwood coming in for Sanchez. Against a Stoke, or Albion even, Sanchez would be the better option, but against Liverpool it is much more suited to Westwood.
With Cleverley, Delph and one of those 2 behind though, there should be enough cover for Gil to thrive. NZogbia is now a real option which is good, but Gil looks more likely to create something.
I see what your'e saying but I think this role can be done by a good player without having to have physical presence Like Sanchez does. The thing is it comes from experience. Barry did it brilliantly without being the type to make big tackles but he was probably well into his twenties by the time he mastered it.
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We continue our new feature as we explore the lives of our first team players. Next up, we hear the choices of midfield ace Tom Cleverley.
1] I like odd numbers - even though I play as No.8 here at Villa.
When I was at Man Utd, I was No.35 but then switched to No.23.
The manager offered me 22 or 23. I prefer wearing odd numbers so I chose No.23.
Also, I must admit, David Beckham was my idol growing up and he wore No.23 at Real Madrid and LA Galaxy so that swayed my decision.
I'm obviously No.8 at Villa. But going on to the pitch on matchday, I like to be third, fifth, seventh or eleventh in line - that evens it out!
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2] Fabian Delph is on the road to football stardom - but I used to have to give him a lift to training as a kid.
As a player now, Fabian is a fantastic athlete. He's good on the ball. He's got everything it takes in his game to be a top, top midfielder.
What impresses me more than all that skill and quality is his attitude. He is a top, top pro. He works tremendously hard.
He's always first in the door - and the last to leave.
It doesn't shock me in the slightest to see someone with his mentality getting the rewards. It's no surprise.
It's a life lesson really - about working hard and striving to be the best you can be.
He can definitely inspire the young lads coming through.
The crazy thing is that I remember him really well when he was himself a young kid.
We both played at Bradford City - his mom didn't drive so we used to car share. He used to get in with us.
We're both Bradford lads so it's been a long journey - through the U21s to playing together again now at Villa.
He was pretty much the same kind of player back then.
But he had big dreadlocks when he was a kid! I'll try and get hold of a picture to prove it!
3] Stiliyan Petrov was one of the very best Villa players I played against - and it's great to be working with him now at Bodymoor Heath.
I remember the one game when I was at Wigan Athletic and Stan was in the heart of midfield for Villa.
It finished 1-1 and ironically Charles N'Zogbia scored the Latics goal on the day. Ashley Young scored for Villa with a free-kick.
I was actually technically playing on the left side of midfield that day and came up against Kyle Walker.
But you didn't have to be a genius to see that Stan could really play.
Stan was a very clever player, great technique and led the team very well as a skipper.
My best mate growing up was a Celtic fan and he always raved about Stan Petrov.
You can see his desire at the club now - his love of Villa shines through when he's at the training ground. It's great to have him around.
He's a top guy, which everyone told me before I met him properly.
But seeing it first hand, you realise he's a real genuine person, brilliant and it's a real morale booster to have him around the place.
4] I love rugby league and I'm a fan of Bradford Bulls.
Growing up in Bradford, it's a big rugby town. They have struggled a bit recently but I'm still a big supporter - and a huge fan of the sport in general.
I watch most sports but I take a big interest in rugby league.
I haven't been to see them for ages. I went to a couple of Grand Finals at Old Trafford a few years back now.
Leeds Rhinos won the first but Bradford Bulls got their revenge the following year.
There are a couple of Man Utd players who like Leeds Rhinos for some strange reason. I am not sure why. Wayne Rooney is one of them!
He's from Merseyside so I'm not sure how that has come about!
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5] My best subject at school was maths.
I was really good at school to be fair until the last couple of years when I really started concentrating and focusing on my football.
The sport took over. It has to really. You have to take it seriously.
Where I was, you're in school until you're 16. You still do college at 16 and 17 but through year 10 and 11 the school lets you out for one and a half days to train. I only did three and a half days at school at that point.
You don't put all your eggs in one basket - and that's the right thing to do because if you don't make it, you need qualifications to fall back on.
But they do let you concentrate on football quite a bit.
I know most kids hate maths when they are at school but I really enjoyed it.
My dad worked in banking so I think his love of numbers made it through to me.
I like playing darts - so it's proved invaluable!
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Works his bollocks off and now adding goals. We have to keep this kid!!
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He's adding a million quid to his value every game.
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I was one of his biggest critics but he's shown since Sherwood took over that he's definitely one to sign up in the summer. Sinclair probably hasn't done enough yet for his loan to be converted.
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Since Sherwood came in Cleverley has improved every game. The type of football Sherwood wants to play suits Cleverley and he is clearly enjoying it.
His confidence that was drained out of him with Lambert's tactics, is flowing back and as a result, he is adding so much more to the right side of midfield. The effort he is putting into every game is tremendous and I hope he does want to stay.
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The slow ponderous play under PL didn't help him at all. Now he gets stuck in, plays quick passes, and gets forward, TS deserves a lot of credit. Really hope we can get a deal sorted out in the summer, something i would never have said 3 months ago.
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I was one of his biggest critics but he's shown since Sherwood took over that he's definitely one to sign up in the summer. Sinclair probably hasn't done enough yet for his loan to be converted.
Really? His goal vs Albion was 3 in 5 I believe and given his misses he should have more for the club by now. He gets into great positions and is brilliant to have as an option. And at £3m I'd be all over securing that deal for still a very young player.
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I was one of his biggest critics but he's shown since Sherwood took over that he's definitely one to sign up in the summer. Sinclair probably hasn't done enough yet for his loan to be converted.
Really? His goal vs Albion was 3 in 5 I believe and given his misses he should have more for the club by now. He gets into great positions and is brilliant to have as an option. And at £3m I'd be all over securing that deal for still a very young player.
He's not getting into the team even with Gabby out. TS is preferring Grealish (deservedly) and N'Zog. Maybe he'll come into the side, contribute and earn the deal but right now I think he has more work to do.
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I think him not getting in since returning from injury is more of a system thing though. He plays better on the left where he can cut inside, and as you said, Grealish is undroppable at the moment playing there, linking up with Delph and Benteke. N'Zogbia is less convincing on the other side but I guess Sherwood likes him cutting in as well, especially since that frees up space for Bacuna to attack as well.
The wages are what I'm concerned about - the 3 million fee is perfectly fine for these days.
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I was one of his biggest critics but he's shown since Sherwood took over that he's definitely one to sign up in the summer. Sinclair probably hasn't done enough yet for his loan to be converted.
Really? His goal vs Albion was 3 in 5 I believe and given his misses he should have more for the club by now. He gets into great positions and is brilliant to have as an option. And at £3m I'd be all over securing that deal for still a very young player.
He's not getting into the team even with Gabby out. TS is preferring Grealish (deservedly) and N'Zog. Maybe he'll come into the side, contribute and earn the deal but right now I think he has more work to do.
Bear in mind though he has been injured and then was available for the Man City game that he couldn't play in. And then today Sherwood kept faith in Zog.
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All I'm saying is I think he has more work to do. I don't think there's anything controversial about that.
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All I'm saying is I think he has more work to do. I don't think there's anything controversial about that.
There's nothing at all controversial in that and you are entirely entitled to your opinion. I don't agree. We can still be friends - right?
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Cleverley's goal today was the hallmark of a quality player full of confidence.
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One thing is clear. Sherwood has the midfield firing.
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There used to be a massive gap between the midfield and our forward(s). No longer. They all play as a unit so it's no wonder now that the midfield are really playing their part in our revival.
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All I'm saying is I think he has more work to do. I don't think there's anything controversial about that.
There's nothing at all controversial in that and you are entirely entitled to your opinion. I don't agree. We can still be friends - right?
Of course - we agree to disagree.
My argument is also on the premise that TS might have others in mind, which of course might not be the case.
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One thing is clear. Sherwood has the midfield firing.
I bet there's a bit of friendly rivalry between Delph and Cleverley as to who gets the most goals from midfield.
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Always said there was a player there and he can score goals as he has in the past. Delighted to see it come to fruition and hope he stays, a big asset to the club. Her certainly seems to have the passion and be enjoying it.
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The question is how much would you pay him to secure his signing?
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The question is how much would you pay him to secure his signing?
£10m in today's market.
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He's a Bosman so I don't see what it would matter. The issue will be his wages - would he accept the same deal Delph took?
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Yes this man was very good today and how well he put that away...fantastic.
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He's a Bosman so I don't see what it would matter. The issue will be his wages - would he accept the same deal Delph took?
There will be some teams throwing silly money at him, I wouldn't be surprised to see £80k pw 5 year contracts. That's £20m in total, could we match it? Should we?
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There's no guarantee we'll get him but he has to ask himself whether he's been happy here since Sherwood took over and having him going forward or whether he wants to go somewhere else. He also has to think whether money is the only thing that matters to him or whether regular football is and whether he has ambitions of getting back into the England squad.
We should do everything we can to get him sign for us but we do have to weigh that up with financial responsibility. There's also the financial fair play to consider so it's not a straight forward question.
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I don't think FFP will affect us this summer as we have Bentys massive contract coming off the wage books so there's room for at least 1 big earner.
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He's a Bosman so I don't see what it would matter. The issue will be his wages - would he accept the same deal Delph took?
There will be some teams throwing silly money at him, I wouldn't be surprised to see £80k pw 5 year contracts. That's £20m in total, could we match it? Should we?
No we shouldnt.
I dont see anyone in the top 6 signing him so we are a great option, but only on a sensible deal. He isnt an 80k pw player, but has improved considerably. Fab goal today and great industry throughout.
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Excellent today.
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The pass, the off the ball run and the finish are all outstanding.
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I don't think FFP will affect us this summer as we have Bentys massive contract coming off the wage books so there's room for at least 1 big earner.
In which case we'd be throwing a good chunk of it at Benteke, but I suspect in the aftermath of the near financial armageddon post MON/Houllier, there's a quite rigid wage structure in place which if broken would lead to all sorts of follow on consequences with others wanting to maintain parity or at least differential.
And that would take us straight back to somewhere we've just spent 4 years getting away from.
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I really really hope we keep him.
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Finally found Milner's replacement. He could be better.
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We really need to pull out all the stops to keep him. He's playing so well that many a club will be after him
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Sign him up.
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Didn't think I'd ever say this but I'd be gutted if he doesn't stay. He certainly looks the £8m player Yanited wanted for him.
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Have to say that him and Delph are both showing England form. The finish was really top quality and his overall game was exceptional.
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Sign him up. Another player who has confounded many critics and grown into something potentially special in a short few months. Refound his Wigan/Watford form as well in front of goal which will do us no harm. Get him locked in Foxy!
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We really need to pull out all the stops to keep him. He's playing so well that many a club will be after him
May be so but I can't see who he would go to? The current top 5 will not go for him and that only leaves Spurs and Everton. Spurs are far too up their own arse to go for him they will be spunking it on a third rate Brazilian and after yesterday he should not touch Martinez with a barge pole.
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I could see Spurs going for him. But I am hopeful he'll feel settled here
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Merson on soccer Saturday said he will be going to a team further south than us next season because of his gf comes from essex.
So he needs to dump her and hitch up with with a classy bird from Brum
Simples
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Merson on soccer Saturday said he will be going to a team further south than us next season because of his gf comes from essex.
So he needs to dump her and hitch up with with a classy bird from Brum
Simples
Then why all the constant rumours that he had his heart set on Everton. Truth is no one really knows and especially not Paul Merson.
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Paul Merson is a very lucky man to have gainful employment as a TV pundit considering his lack of brain cells.
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Have to say that him and Delph are both showing England form. The finish was really top quality and his overall game was exceptional.
Very true Peter. The finish was nothing sort of sensational.
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Didn't think I'd ever say this but I'd be gutted if he doesn't stay. He certainly looks the £8m player Yanited wanted for him.
I slaughtered him a few months back, he just looked a pointless player. He's been terrific since Sherwood been here though. Credit to both I suppose.
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he has been fantastic the last few weeks.
would be great to have him and delph in the centre next season. so much energy.
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When we got him on loan I told my united supporting mate that they'd been using him wrong, by asking him to do his best Nicky Butt impression next to Carrick.
That played in his best position he might even surprise a few people.
By January I'd decided that if he looked rubbish at both United and Villa, then he was in fact pants.
Brilliant to be proved wrong, really hope we can keep him.
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I could see Spurs going for him. But I am hopeful he'll feel settled here
Off course Spurs will go for him. He's a midfielder they don't have. Spurs collect midfielders like dorks who collect stamps.
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Didn't think I'd ever say this but I'd be gutted if he doesn't stay. He certainly looks the £8m player Yanited wanted for him.
I slaughtered him a few months back, he just looked a pointless player. He's been terrific since Sherwood been here though. Credit to both I suppose.
i suppose? - no doubt about it in my book...
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When the instructions for any player is completely foreign to how they are suited to play then it's almost inevitable they won't look any good. It wasn't just Cleverley. Being asked to defend for 85 minutes of a game or pass ad nauseum in our own half never allowed him to flourish. We are now starting to see exactly what he's made of. Not only does he run all day, he's outstanding next to Delph and now adding goals. Mix in huge doses of confidence and belief, he's looking quite an excellent player.
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The Everton link keeps cropping up, even Sherwood mentioned it, just wondering if perhaps he supports them?
I hope he stays but fear he might have other more attractive offers.
It might just get Gary Gardner into the team if he does move on.
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It's not Everton as such. Cleverley played well at Wigan when Martinez was manager there. If there were an open choice last July or January he would have chosen to play for Martinez. Cleverley is now surely not that far short of an England recall. Sherwood's part in that ought to mean a lot to him.
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plus when you're enjoying playing your football, scoring goals, winning games, and looking forward to coming into training that counts for a hell of a lot. We've got 4 games to potentially keep a possibly very good team together. they look like they want it so fingers crossed they get there.
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I read on the official site he's known Fabian Delph a long time, am hoping that might play a part in us keeping him.
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4675452,00.html
(http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4675452,00.html)
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The Bradford Massive or the Unique Two.*
Probably only Chico will get that last one.
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Tom Cleverley was thrilled to see Villa bounce back against Everton and wants the claret and blues to continue in the same vein.
The on-loan Man Utd man scored Villa's crucial third after Romelu Lukaku had reduced the deficit from the penalty spot early in the second half.
Cleverley's strike was his second goal in as many matches having netted in the narrow defeat at Man City last time out.
Unsurprisingly, the 25-year-old savoured his match-winning strike in front of the Holte End, all the more given the significance of the outcome.
The midfielder produced an admirable display on what was a difficult day on a personal level after the passing of Rebecca Ellison, the wife of close friend and former team-mate, Rio Ferdinand.
He said: "I'm more thrilled about the three points than the goal.
"The win was vital.
"I was delighted to score my first goal for the club at Man City but it didn't feel that sweet coming in a defeat.
"This one felt much sweeter on a sad day for me.
"Rio Ferdinand has been a close team-mate of mine so it was a hard day.
"It shows how little football can matter but I was just delighted to get the three points for the lads.
"My goal came when we were under a bit of pressure at 2-1 and it couldn't have been timed better.
"Thankfully I was the one to score it.
"Hopefully the team and myself can carry on our good form."
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The Bradford Massive or the Unique Two.*
Probably only Chico will get that last one.
If you've ever been (had the misfortune of going) to Bradford you'll know they speak another language or code. Mainly a collection of grunts and the odd syllable thrown in to ward off oppressors. I've seen Delph simply gesture to Cleverely to correct him positionally. No NRC huddles or arm waving needed.
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Watching the Everton match again, I was thinking, if you wanted a clip of a couple of seconds duration to totally sum up the difference between us now and under Lambert, go for that bit of Cleverly busting a lung to get into the box for his goal.
He started running before Bacuna had even noticed the pass was on, I think.
Under Lambert, there was none of that. From any of them.
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It was David Platt-esque at his absolute finest.
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He certainly has Plattitude...
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I wonder if we will rue not stumping up the £7m to Yanited in January for him. There's no guarantee he would have agreed but we're going to have to battle some big clubs in the summer to keep hold of him.
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I really hope we can keep him, because now he's playing in the correct role he's playing very well.
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Surely the only factors that can influence his decision as a free agent is money and location. I'd like to think that he and his family are settled in the area, so it would be disappointing if he left for an offer of higher wages now that he's become part of a team with potential and good team spirit.
If we can keep hold of our best players and can sort out the defence, then I see no reason why we can't be pushing Europa League places next season.
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It was David Platt-esque at his absolute finest.
Exactly. The finish was absolutely superb. Would be joyous to see that sort of run on a more regular basis.
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Play for a club on the up, in a role that really suits you, or go to a club who have already reached their potential and won't get better, a la Spurs, Everton etc. Villa for me.
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Surely the only factors that can influence his decision as a free agent is money and location. I'd like to think that he and his family are settled in the area.
Im not sure he's moved to the area, with his Mrs having something of a profile they regularly seem to be photographed coming out of coffee shops and the like in Cheshire.
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I think he'll sign.
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I wonder if we will rue not stumping up the £7m to Yanited in January for him. There's no guarantee he would have agreed but we're going to have to battle some big clubs in the summer to keep hold of him.
Isn't he out of contract?
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I wonder if we will rue not stumping up the £7m to Yanited in January for him. There's no guarantee he would have agreed but we're going to have to battle some big clubs in the summer to keep hold of him.
Isn't he out of contract?
Yes he is........I don't see any "big" clubs being in for him its wether we can offer him enough money. match his ambitions,etc
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True, I still think he'll pick everton, we will see eh?
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I wonder if we will rue not stumping up the £7m to Yanited in January for him. There's no guarantee he would have agreed but we're going to have to battle some big clubs in the summer to keep hold of him.
Isn't he out of contract?
Yes, but he wouldn't have been in January. So we could have paid the fee that we agreed in August, and had he signed at that point then there wouldn't be any issues of other clubs coming in for him in July.
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I wonder if we will rue not stumping up the £7m to Yanited in January for him. There's no guarantee he would have agreed but we're going to have to battle some big clubs in the summer to keep hold of him.
Isn't he out of contract?
Yes, but he wouldn't have been in January. So we could have paid the fee that we agreed in August, and had he signed at that point then there wouldn't be any issues of other clubs coming in for him in July.
He wasn't particularly good in January. I think we'd have been calling Fox bonkers had he forked out £7 million for someone most wanted rid of. £7 million is a big gamble when the player or his agent around that time expressed an interest in playing for Everton.
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Saying now that Villa should have coughed up £7m for January's version of TC23-8 is classic hindsight
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The Bradford Massive or the Unique Two.*
Probably only Chico will get that last one.
I'm offended. You really broke my stride there TSOV.
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I don't think it was a case of coughing up £7m I don't think at that point he wanted to come, remember all the hoo haa with his agent saying we need to cough up big time for wages and it was only Everton's reluctance that forced him here
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Can you imagine the reaction had we paid that fee in January? It would have been only second to Lambert's contract in the many mental things the club had done during a season that was heading to hell. Very quickly.
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I don't think he'd have signed in January, even if we had been willing to pay the fee.
Far better for him to run his contract down and assess his options in the summer.
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Why would any club pay £7m for a player that would be available for free 6 months later? Back in January, he was a very average player in a very poor team contributing very little so it would have been madness to make the deal at that time.
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Worth remembering that back in January he was getting booed before games.
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Fucking love this guy. He could have had a hat trick today. It will be a crying shame if he doesn't stay with us. For the first time in ages I feel as though we have that Ian Taylor/Platt type player at the club. Works really hard and gets into positions to score goals. Three goals in three, two of the them absolutely massive game winners.
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Great energy and now a goalscoring threat/getting into places that hurt teams. They put up his passing stats at half-time and it was only 64% possession so he can still get better. The diamond of Westwood/Sanchez, Delph, Cleverley and Grealish has been working great for us. How often is there a quick interchange of passes between Delph/Grealish/Benteke? Seems to be a great understanding there.
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Fucking love this guy. He could have had a hat trick today. It will be a crying shame if he doesn't stay with us. For the first time in ages I feel as though we have that Ian Taylor/Platt type player at the club. Works really hard and gets into positions to score goals. Three goals in three, two of the them absolutely massive game winners.
What, after three or four games?
He was appalling for a long time before that. If the wages are reasonable then I'm OK with him signing but I'm not convinced yet.
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Fucking love this guy. He could have had a hat trick today. It will be a crying shame if he doesn't stay with us. For the first time in ages I feel as though we have that Ian Taylor/Platt type player at the club. Works really hard and gets into positions to score goals. Three goals in three, two of the them absolutely massive game winners.
What, after three or four games?
He was appalling for a long time before that. If the wages are reasonable then I'm OK with him signing but I'm not convinced yet.
are you seriously saying that Lambert playing him and everyone else in our third of the pitch for 85 minutes a game didn't have a massive bearing on his overall play?
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If anyone doesn't think we should sign Tim cleverley on a free transfer they need their head checking.
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Fucking love this guy. He could have had a hat trick today. It will be a crying shame if he doesn't stay with us. For the first time in ages I feel as though we have that Ian Taylor/Platt type player at the club. Works really hard and gets into positions to score goals. Three goals in three, two of the them absolutely massive game winners.
100% agreed.
He was everywhere today. Great performance. His sheer effort makes me think he wants to stay
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We've all been proved wrong by him.
Reading H&V today Andrew Robins who I believe is Paulie on here was laying into him and I just couldn't help chuckling at it as no doubt that article was penned in February and 99% of us on here were saying the complete same things about him.
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We've all been proved wrong by him.
Reading H&V today Andrew Robins who I believe is Paulie on here was laying into him and I just couldn't help chuckling at it as no doubt that article was penned in February and 99% of us on here were saying the complete same things about him.
I've just read that article on the toilet ;D
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Please stay Tom! Lets hope other clubs have not been paying attention to his transformation.
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TC was excellent today (again), MOTM for me. Astonishing contrast from the parks player version we saw under Lambert.
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Sherwood in fine form again.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-tim-sherwood-jokes-9224973
“But we’re only going to pay him £250 a week and someone else will give him £50 grand! We’d like to keep him but he’s obviously got a few options – even more now,” said the boss.
“I’ll just tell him if he won’t sign he’s not playing in the cup final!” he joked."
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The Sherwood interview just now where he mentioned watching Cleverley as a youth on loan at Watford and he scored 10 goals from midfield that season, he said you don't lose that ability.
Pretty obvious that TS has had a lot to do with his form.
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Fucking love this guy. He could have had a hat trick today. It will be a crying shame if he doesn't stay with us. For the first time in ages I feel as though we have that Ian Taylor/Platt type player at the club. Works really hard and gets into positions to score goals. Three goals in three, two of the them absolutely massive game winners.
What, after three or four games?
He was appalling for a long time before that. If the wages are reasonable then I'm OK with him signing but I'm not convinced yet.
Have not read anything after this comment, he was being played in a totally wrong position under the magic tactician that was Lambert
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Man of the match today for me. Signing him is an absolute no brainer, just get it done.
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He'd be mad to move now.
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Really hope he stays , he's a very good player.
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He really does remind me of David Platt
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Platt? He is playing well glad he's proved me wrong
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Back in the England first 11 on this form - whipped in some great crosses today too.
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He really does remind me of David Platt
That's exactly what I thought when he scored against Everton
It might also have something to do with the 8 on his back !
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He'd be crazy not to sign and we'd be crazy not to make a decent offer to him. He's looking a top player under Sherwood. He looks a goal threat now too. It just seems so ridiculously simple how TS has made this turnaround. Get these players in the box. Simples.
We've long waited for someone as good as Delphy in our midfield to help him out and TC has made that step up now.
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He covered every blade of grass today. broke up play ,provided defensive cover,and scored. MOM by a country mile. .
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I (half) jokingly said to Legion just after we scored "that was like watching Sid setting up Platt"
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He covered every blade of grass today. broke up play ,provided defensive cover,and scored. MOM by a country mile. .
Someone said on the match thread that he was Gerrard-esque, and he certainly was today. The Gerrard of 10 years ago to boot. Very impressive display from TC. He seemed to do everything well.
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He'd be crazy not to sign and we'd be crazy not to make a decent offer to him. He's looking a top player under Sherwood. He looks a goal threat now too. It just seems so ridiculously simple how TS has made this turnaround. Get these players in the box. Simples.
We've long waited for someone as good as Delphy in our midfield to help him out and TC has made that step up now.
He will have many clubs to choose from but hopefully Mr Sherwood and his smooth talking will sort it. He was always a good player, just wrongly used. Are you forgetting Westwood by the way lol
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He'd be crazy not to sign and we'd be crazy not to make a decent offer to him. He's looking a top player under Sherwood. He looks a goal threat now too. It just seems so ridiculously simple how TS has made this turnaround. Get these players in the box. Simples.
We've long waited for someone as good as Delphy in our midfield to help him out and TC has made that step up now.
He will have many clubs to choose from but hopefully Mr Sherwood and his smooth talking will sort it. He was always a good player, just wrongly used. Are you forgetting Westwood by the way lol
No Westy is starting to look like the player we potentially saw 2 years ago. He's ideal foil for the energy that Delph and TC give ahead of him.
With Gardner returning we might just have options in the middle next season.
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Looked lost under Lambert, I thought we'd got a dud and the stick he got on social media was for good reason. Glad to say I hold my hands up and I was wrong. There is a very good player there, playing in the right system. I just hope playing our way out of trouble and us putting faith in him is enough to convince him that he's better off here than anywhere else.
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I think Gardner may thrive under TS. As for Westwood, he is a top player IMO and is proving it, the shackles have been let loose for all the players
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If the money's right I think he will stick with sherwood.
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I'd be pissed off if he goes to Everton because I think we can finish above them next season if we can get keep this group together.
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When Lambert was manager, I think it was understandable that he was looking to go to Everton. Since Sherwood's come in, Cleverley looks like he's enjoying himself, he's thriving and is knocking on the door for an England call-up. With a cup final to look forward to, the whole club is bouncing again. He would be mad to go to Everton. The problem would be if a Champions League side came in for him, in which case he's got to consider whether he'll be regularly playing.
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When Lambert was manager, I think it was understandable that he was looking to go to Everton. Since Sherwood's come in, Cleverley looks like he's enjoying himself, he's thriving and is knocking on the door for an England call-up. With a cup final to look forward to, the whole club is bouncing again. He would be mad to go to Everton. The problem would be if a Champions League side came in for him, in which case he's got to consider whether he'll be regularly playing.
If we carry on playing how we are he'll deserve it and it wouldn't be a massive shock if Westwood and Grealish are being looked at to join him and Delph in there, the whole midfield is working brilliantly right now.
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The concern is whether he'll start attracting the attention of teams that are better than Everton.
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I really hope he decides to stay he's been fantastic of late.
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Manure might offer him a new deal at this rate, hardly anybody wanted us to pay the reported fee for him in Jan (and rightly so at the time) now he's looking like a really good player
we're all most of us are now hoping he stays.
Mixed feelings of him over at RC, some want him back, some wish him well (academy player) some hope he stays with us and not the reported Everton.
www.redcafe.net/threads/tom-cleverley-aston-villa-loan-watch.393991/page-81
Personally it looks like he's enjoying his football here but these days it's about money, he will go to a club who offers him the best deal that suits him. It might be us.....it might not.
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Signing cleverley would be a coup almost as big as re-signing Delph. I think we're all but safe in the league now and if we can beat arsenal then we'd have a great chance of keeping cleverley, benteke and vlaar.
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Fucking love this guy. He could have had a hat trick today. It will be a crying shame if he doesn't stay with us. For the first time in ages I feel as though we have that Ian Taylor/Platt type player at the club. Works really hard and gets into positions to score goals. Three goals in three, two of the them absolutely massive game winners.
What, after three or four games?
He was appalling for a long time before that. If the wages are reasonable then I'm OK with him signing but I'm not convinced yet.
Have not read anything after this comment, he was being played in a totally wrong position under the magic tactician that was Lambert
What about the three years before that playing for England & Man. United?
Done well recently, still not convinced but hope he keeps it up.
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I'd be pleasantly surprised to see him sign, he will get bigger offers than ours.
If he does go I think he can expect a warm welcome whenever he returns with another team, his goals and performances have been crucial just when we needed them most.
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If he does leave and is dropped into a team who don't play the right system and he's out of position then he will struggle again.
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If he does leave and is dropped into a team who don't play the right system and he's out of position then he will struggle again.
Maybe, he was v poor under lambert and not many clubs play as we do right now. They mentioned on MOTD (or similar) that he is a confidence player so switching in/out of a chumps league squad would probably not suit him.
In a way it is a good litmus test for the modern footballer. Stay (or join any club below Spurs), play every week and enjoy your football with a good chance of getting in the england squad or go to a 'big club' and the kudos which goes with that. I don't even think a chumps league club will pay him that much more than we would due to FFP and their already bloated squads.
The more I think about it, and without C&B spec, the more I think we are the *right* club for him. Whether he sees it that way is another matter.
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Does he count as a homegrown player for the UEFA quota? Even if he does, I don't really see why a team like City or Chelsea would bother going for him.
I'm starting to feel fairly confident that he'd pick us over Everton, but I wonder if Liverpool or Spurs or even Southampton would try and lure him. The former two have a cavalcade of midfielders who are about his level (pretty decent but not extremely good); I think the Saints might be a dark-horse, particularly if Schneiderlin leaves.
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Personally I don't see Southampton as a threat at all. I do see Spurs and Liverpool as a threat though (95% certain a top 4 club wouldn't bother).
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Just seen an interview, where TS was joking about not picking TC for the cup final if he doesn't sign permanently for us lol
I liked him before he came, think he's certainly winning many of the doubters over.
Think he's a perfect fit for Villa.
:) :) :) :)
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I really hope we can keep him he's been brilliant player for us recently .
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Me too. If I were Spurs in particular id be going all out for him though.
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Not a fancy enough signing for them.
"Never mind the quality, feel the width" should be their transfer "mission statement"
Which would fit in well with the new club motto. "We're all fart and no shit".
Which is of course not quite in keeping with the sign over the manager's chair. "It's time to shit or get off the pot."
Anyone else think that Pochettino will be looking for alternative employment by the end of January?
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I think we need to get a Song about him guys to him prove to him about how much he is admired and wanted.
Yesterday after scoring the song was "super Jackie grealish" which is fair enough as he had made the goal but if it had been the other way round it would of still been super Jackie grealish
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He is one of our own
He is one of our own
Jack Grealish
He is one of our own
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Would certainly confuse him wouldn't it!
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I think we need to get a Song about him guys to him prove to him about how much he is admired and wanted.
Yesterday after scoring the song was "super Jackie grealish" which is fair enough as he had made the goal but if it had been the other way round it would of still been super Jackie grealish
His song was born yesterday up the Holte End. To the tune of the f*ck the albion one.
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Aye.
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Saw this in Brum Mail today, pretty catchy:
"Well sometimes I go out by myself and I look across the Holte End.
"And I think of all the goals that I've scored and in my head I dream of Wembley.
"Oh, Cleverleeeey, why don't you sign for Villa, Cleverley."
Thanks to @msgilbert1805 and @sammye99 for that potential terrace chant, to the tune of Valerie by The Zutons, which succinctly sums up the newfound love that Aston Villa - and football as a whole - is discovering for Tom Cleverley.
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Should just repeat the last line over and over if anything.
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Encouraging comments (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tom-cleverley-im-ready-sign-9227396)
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Signing cleverley would be a coup almost as big as re-signing Delph. I think we're all but safe in the league now and if we can beat arsenal then we'd have a great chance of keeping cleverley, benteke and vlaar.
I'm still undecided about Vlaar. Good player, but has missed considerable amounts of each season he has been at the Villa. I also think that playing alongside a physical and dominant centre half would bring out the best in Okore and Clark.
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Encouraging comments (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tom-cleverley-im-ready-sign-9227396)
“I’m playing my football with a massive smile on my face and enjoying myself here,” he said.
“We’ve got a great group of lads and I’m getting on well with the manager so those are all factors that show I’m happy.
“I’ve really grown to like playing for this club in the last few months and this manager has got to be given credit for getting me where I’ve been in the last few weeks,”
LIKE - as the kids say
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You know it makes sense
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this bit is also encouraging
First the club have got to offer me something. And then I’ll definitely have a look.’
For Cleverley, his next move won’t be financially motivated.
‘I don’t think any Premier League players are going to be short of a quid or two,’ he said. ‘You have just got to be happy first of all. And I am at this club.
‘I just know my contract runs out at Man United on June 30, that’s my position.’
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I was just about to cut and paste that bit. honest and tells us a lot about his motivation.
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this bit is also encouraging
First the club have got to offer me something. And then I’ll definitely have a look.’
For Cleverley, his next move won’t be financially motivated.
‘I don’t think any Premier League players are going to be short of a quid or two,’ he said. ‘You have just got to be happy first of all. And I am at this club.
‘I just know my contract runs out at Man United on June 30, that’s my position.’
That is the bit which jumped out at me too. Football generally will be a better place when players realise this.
I did not imagine that "TC23" would have been one of the first. ...after Delph of course.
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I'm really liking this guy. He always seems so happy to score - and when others score
Really encouraging comments and I think we should offer him a deal as soon as we're mathematically safe. Just hope we're in a position to do that in terms of the ownership situation. I'd have thought it's a no brainer though
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All looking very positive in today's rags but don't count your chickens before they are hatched. Until the ink is dry on the contract that will be offered he is not our's....yet!
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I hope he has realised that re-signing for Man U isnt necessarily the wisest thing to do, he was sent out on loan for a reason, and it wasnt because he was an automatic choice, whereas at VP, he has completeley re-launched his career, is a first choice, seems happy and is on the up and up, if he goes elswhere, he effectively has to start again. It would be crazy to move on, fingers crossed the lad sees the pluses and signs.
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Hopefully the rest of the premier league clubs haven't latched on to how good he has been lately - my Liverpool supporting mates thought I was drunk yesterday when I suggested they could do worse than signing TC.
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Signing cleverley would be a coup almost as big as re-signing Delph. I think we're all but safe in the league now and if we can beat arsenal then we'd have a great chance of keeping cleverley, benteke and vlaar.
I'm still undecided about Vlaar. Good player, but has missed considerable amounts of each season he has been at the Villa. I also think that playing alongside a physical and dominant centre half would bring out the best in Okore and Clark.
i take your point. At the moment in our current situation I'd be really happy if I learned tomorrow he'd signed a new deal. A lot depends on what funds are available in the summer if/when the takeover happens. We could probably upgrade in that area, but it won't be cheap and probably not a priority if money continues to be tight. Aside from the injuries, he's a class act and we should be looking to keep him as things stand, in my view.
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Wolfsberg interested now it would appear.
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he's a nailed on signing as far as I am concerned. Once the club have started to suggest they would like to keep him, and the player days later does exactly the same thing and even goes as afar as to say happiness over money is the priority then barring something completely bizarre occurring he'll be Villa player next season on a 4 year deal. File with Sinclair, Scott
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Sinclair and Cleverley for £3m..... I'd be over the moon, they are the kind of signings we would have probably paid nearer £20m for a few years ago.
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yeah, building up nicely isn't it. If the Benteke thing is correct from VCTM then the team for nest season is taking shape. I'd prefer a keeper, left-back, centre-half (of experience), one more midfielder, one right-sided player and one more forward.
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I have a horrible vision of him in a Spurs shirt next season.
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I'll be genuinely gutted if he leaves now.
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I have a horrible vision of him in a Spurs shirt next season.
Spurs have a million midfielders, so I doubt he'd want to go there.
The club I'd worry about is Liverpool - they don't have anyone who is better than Cleverley (on current form).
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yeah, building up nicely isn't it. If the Benteke thing is correct from VCTM then the team for nest season is taking shape. I'd prefer a keeper, left-back, centre-half (of experience), one more midfielder, one right-sided player and one more forward.
What Benteke thing?
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Happy to sign an extension and see where we are come Xmas. Challenging top 6 he'll stay if not come the next summer he'll go. Makes sense.
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I have a horrible vision of him in a Spurs shirt next season.
Spurs have a million midfielders, so I doubt he'd want to go there.
The club I'd worry about is Liverpool - they don't have anyone who is better than Cleverley (on current form).
But they do have Henderson who plays in a very similar position (centre/right midfield) and has captained the side recently. Rumours that Milner is also going there, so they should be well stocked for similar players.
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Happy to sign an extension and see where we are come Xmas. Challenging top 6 he'll stay if not come the next summer he'll go. Makes sense.
Extension ? He's a free agent. He will want a permanent deal put in place , let's hope it's with us.
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Happy to sign an extension and see where we are come Xmas. Challenging top 6 he'll stay if not come the next summer he'll go. Makes sense.
Extension ? He's a free agent. He will want a permanent deal put in place , let's hope it's with us.
Think he meant benteke
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we need to show him he's one of us
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Happy to sign an extension and see where we are come Xmas. Challenging top 6 he'll stay if not come the next summer he'll go. Makes sense.
Where's this rumour from?
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Happy to sign an extension and see where we are come Xmas. Challenging top 6 he'll stay if not come the next summer he'll go. Makes sense.
Where's this rumour from?
VCTM spoke with someone who was a coach somewhere.
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Timothy, ruddy well sign Thomas up, I'll be extremely annoyed if you don't.
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According to another website, which will remain nameless, apparently Tom has had a conversation with Paul Scholes today and told him he wants a move to Goodison.
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Well, maybe. But I think someone just asked as Scholes his opinion on BT Sport before the match and he reckons he'll go to Everton.
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I'll take it from the player who only last week says how much he loves being at the club and it has made him enjoy his football again.
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My thoughts too, TV. I suppose it comes down to how much he likes working with Sherwood vs how much he enjoyed working with Martinez.
He looks like he enjoys playing for Sherwood quite a lot.
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TC only said last week "make me an offer" to Villa. So, surely Villa should move quickly? We are now safe, so Lerner/Fox need to act now.
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He was terrible today, I know that doesn't mean much but if he signs then he signs, not bothered either way
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I wouldn't make anyone any offers til after the Final.
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I'll take it from the player who only last week says how much he loves being at the club and it has made him enjoy his football again.
May I remind you about The Downing Debacle.
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I'll take it from the player who only last week says how much he loves being at the club and it has made him enjoy his football again.
May I remind you about The Downing Debacle.
Please use his full name.
Thats C$%T! Downing.
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He was terrible today, I know that doesn't mean much but if he signs then he signs, not bothered either way
To be fair it's one game in which everyone was terrible.
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I'll take it from the player who only last week says how much he loves being at the club and it has made him enjoy his football again.
May I remind you about The Downing Debacle.
Indeed.
I can't believe anyone falls for that "I love being at the club" shit from players any more.
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I'll take it from the player who only last week says how much he loves being at the club and it has made him enjoy his football again.
May I remind you about The Downing Debacle.
Indeed.
I can't believe anyone falls for that "I love being at the club" shit from players any more.
Nobody should be compared to Downing for what he did. And Cleverley just said he enjoys playing for us, that money isn't everything. If at the end of the day he moves to Everton for any number of reasons it is still entirely possible that he really enjoyed playing for us but had other reasons to go somewhere else.
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Decent player, particularly on a free, but I can't help thinking we might have better options out there. I would like him to stay but won't be too upset if he doesn't. If him and Delph are to drive our midfield, like they have done so, so successfully over the last dozen games or so, then I think the third midfielder needs to be better defensively than Westwood or Sanchez.
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Decent player, particularly on a free, but I can't help thinking we might have better options out there. I would like him to stay but won't be too upset if he doesn't. If him and Delph are to drive our midfield, like they have done so, so successfully over the last dozen games or so, then I think the third midfielder needs to be better defensively than Westwood or Sanchez.
Better options on a free than someone who has won the premiership and is still young? Would you care to suggest who?
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I cannot believe people think we've got better options than Tom cleverly on a free
Who??!??
He's been brilliant, yday apart
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I'm not thinking about the financial aspect, although being on a free makes him a bargain, and I agree that he's been great since Sherwood got here. However, I would like a more forceful player, that's all I'm saying. If he signs, great.
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He was terrible today, I know that doesn't mean much but if he signs then he signs, not bothered either way
So the 3 goals in 3 games prior to that mean nothing?
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He was terrible today, I know that doesn't mean much but if he signs then he signs, not bothered either way
So the 3 goals in 3 games prior to that mean nothing?
With all due respect, TC was fricking crap for the first 25 games of the season. Been great since Sherwood got here though.
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He was terrible today, I know that doesn't mean much but if he signs then he signs, not bothered either way
So the 3 goals in 3 games prior to that mean nothing?
With all due respect, TC was fricking crap for the first 25 games of the season. Been great since Sherwood got here though.
Benteke looked crap for most of that time too - are we 'meh' about whether he stays?
Pretty much everyone looked crap.
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He was terrible today, I know that doesn't mean much but if he signs then he signs, not bothered either way
So the 3 goals in 3 games prior to that mean nothing?
With all due respect, TC was fricking crap for the first 25 games of the season. Been great since Sherwood got here though.
That was under Lambert - even Benteke was poor and got dropped! Lambert was the problem for Cleverley and most of the squad.
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Paul Scholes says Tom Cleverley will opt for Everton.
"Paul Scholes believes Tom Cleverley will sign for Everton, speaking to BT Sport, Scholes said: "I don’t know, I don’t speak to Tom"
Great bit of News from the Birmingham mail!
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Thanks Paul for that bit of stunning insight. You don't talk to him but you think he'll sign for Everton. The Mail carrying it is hardly a surprise given their dearth of quality Villa stories.
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Thanks Paul for that bit of stunning insight. You don't talk to him but you think he'll sign for Everton. The Mail carrying it is hardly a surprise given their dearth of quality Villa stories.
The depth of inanity and shallowness demonstrated daily by so-called expert summarisers is breathtaking. The media as a whole should be pilloried for employing these numbskulls ...
... and as for Paul Scholes: he must be the world's longest-surviving brain-donor.
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I quite like Scholes as a pundit. He's not afraid of saying stuff that will piss people off.
He also called Savage a twat and clearly dislikes him.
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Would it be the end of the world if we didn't sign him up, I'm sure TS has other options in place already.
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No it wouldn't be the end of the world, but since Sherwood came he's been very very good and considering he's on a free transfer getting him would be a brilliant bit of business.
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I don't have a problem with Scholes giving an educated guess.
He clarified his position and said he didn't know for sure.
He wasn't saying Cleverley should sign for Everton, or anything like that.
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What I find odd about Scholes is that he spent his career routinely shunning interviews and then decides he wants to become a pundit.
My problem with Scholes is that I can't look at him without thinking of *that* picture.
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What I find odd about Scholes is that he spent his career routinely shunning interviews and then decides he wants to become a pundit.
My problem with Scholes is that I can't look at him without thinking of *that* picture.
I think that was one of the things Keane had an issue with... your first point not the second. Although maybe he agrees withe second point as well.
I just find his voice very dull myself.
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There have been some funny old photos of players down the years. Who was the guy at Everton who slipped it out in the tunnel while waiting to lead out his side? And Steve Lomas is another I always see that picture of him getting a bit too excited after scoring.
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(http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp171/siaiz/peter-beardsley-balls.jpg)
Frank and Frank and beans...
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this made me laugh
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so did this...