Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on March 25, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
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So 6th home defeat of the season which is now their worst home season since 1976 or something ridiculous.
Yet you know we will go there and be rolled over 3-0 or something like that, hopefully at least the game won't be over by half time this years.
But why? Why is it we lose season in season out there while we go three seasons unbeaten at Anfield, we regularly win at the Emirates and aside from the 8-0 we usually give Chelsea a proper good game at Stamford Bridge.
It has to be psychological doesn't it? They have a hold over us at Villa Park and just generally. Why is it that playing Valencia and Rafael on the right is much harder for our defence to cope with than a Hazard or Coutinho? Those two ripped us to shreds at Villa Park.
Cleverley waltzed through our middle for the third, not Yaya Toure, not Gerrard or even Ramsey, Tom fecking Cleverley.
It's bizarre to me how apart from a brief spike under MON when we went a couple unbeaten against them (still losing the cup final) we just seem to roll over so easily against them such as this season. Yet we've beaten Arsenal, Chelsea and Man. City this season and should've beaten Liverpool. Does anyone really see us going to Old Trafford and playing like we did at Anfield?
Another theory is as we saw on Sunday we still struggle a bit against the high diagonal long ball, a couple of RVP's hattrick came from long high balls so I don't think Moyes tactics of endlessly using the flanks and getting crosses in is good news for us.
I can cope with losing but it needs to be a respectable 2-1 battling loss, not a 3 nil down at half time with barely a shot on target that we seem to get against them.
This is their worst team for about 30 years after all.
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it's mostly because, usually, they're a significantly better side than we are. They're not anything like as good this season, but then again, whilst Cleverley waltzed through our midfield, so did Stoke a few days ago. I don't think that means too much.
As Joe of this parish said on facebook, very amusingly, a few minutes ago, we need to worry about going to Old Trafford this weekend. Not because of a backlash, but because we're so shit against poor sides
;-)
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Because somewhere along the line, it's been stressed how much we need to respect them, instead of tearing into them.
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Can we at least wait until after the game before we hold the inquest?
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On telly here, during the game at Villa Park, the commentator said that Man Utd may be in crisis but it's not so bad that they can't beat Aston Villa.
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it's mostly because, usually, they're a significantly better side than we are. They're not anything like as good this season, but then again, whilst Cleverley waltzed through our midfield, so did Stoke a few days ago. I don't think that means too much.
As Joe of this parish said on facebook, very amusingly, a few minutes ago, we need to worry about going to Old Trafford this weekend. Not because of a backlash, but because we're so shit against poor sides
;-)
That's true but I've think the stats are since 2003 (and it's not like they've won the league every season) we've lost 17 of our last 21 league games against them.
Now I haven't got the stats for games against Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea in that period but there's no way our records against those are as bad, not when we regularly go to the Emirates and win, not when Chelsea have only won twice at VP in the last 10 years and not when we've been unbeaten at Anfield in the last three seasons.
I think what I'm getting at is our games against those three are usually a lot closer and we have to make them work for the win. Certainly Liverpool and Arsenal when they came to VP and win it's usually only by one goal.
With United we either seem to concede an early goal and crumble and lose by 3 or are leading, concede a goal and them crumble.
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On telly here, during the game at Villa Park, the commentator said that Man Utd may be in crisis but it's not so bad that they can't beat Aston Villa.
Cheeky Polish fuggers.
But yeah, we're crap against teams in and around us in the table so I don't expect us to get much at all on Sat.
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I hope we are 2-0 down with 10 mins to go and win 3-2 with the winner the most spawny of spawny penalties in the 96th minute when there should only have been 4 added mins.
My Name Is Earl.
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So 6th home defeat of the season which is now their worst home season since 1976 or something ridiculous.
Yet you know we will go there and be rolled over 3-0 or something like that, hopefully at least the game won't be over by half time this years.
But why? Why is it we lose season in season out there while we go three seasons unbeaten at Anfield, we regularly win at the Emirates and aside from the 8-0 we usually give Chelsea a proper good game at Stamford Bridge.
It has to be psychological doesn't it? They have a hold over us at Villa Park and just generally. Why is it that playing Valencia and Rafael on the right is much harder for our defence to cope with than a Hazard or Coutinho? Those two ripped us to shreds at Villa Park.
Cleverley waltzed through our middle for the third, not Yaya Toure, not Gerrard or even Ramsey, Tom fecking Cleverley.
It's bizarre to me how apart from a brief spike under MON when we went a couple unbeaten against them (still losing the cup final) we just seem to roll over so easily against them such as this season. Yet we've beaten Arsenal, Chelsea and Man. City this season and should've beaten Liverpool. Does anyone really see us going to Old Trafford and playing like we did at Anfield?
Another theory is as we saw on Sunday we still struggle a bit against the high diagonal long ball, a couple of RVP's hattrick came from long high balls so I don't think Moyes tactics of endlessly using the flanks and getting crosses in is good news for us.
I can cope with losing but it needs to be a respectable 2-1 battling loss, not a 3 nil down at half time with barely a shot on target that we seem to get against them.
This is their worst team for about 30 years after all.
spot on mate - was thinking of posting something similar myself. We just bottle it against them for some Reason. Hopefully we can scrape a point. 2-2 or something. I'm not allowing myself to think of winning.
If we do it will be a huge bonus.
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I wold love it, love it to beat them. But I cannot believe we will. Sadly.
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Can we at least wait until after the game before we hold the inquest?
This
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We are not annually rubbish against them. We are bi-annually rubbish against them.
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Can we play the game first, we beat some teams like Chelsea and arsenal and lose to stoke and Fulham that's why we are mid table....
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I go on holiday on Friday. Normal drill is to quickly identify somewhere I can watch our game. As it is the early kick off I might give it a miss and catch up with the high (low) lights in the evening.
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Because we traditionally find it difficult to play against 12 men.
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I definitely think that in the past we've always been one of a handful of sides that Fergie made sure his teams were on top form for. Sides like us, Everton, Spurs etc regularly struggled at OT yet sides battling relegation seemed to be able to nick a result there every so often.
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Regarding past games against them, it seems as if we're psychologically (if that's the correct term) beaten before we step out on the pitch. They often beat us without having to get out of second gear.
If we have enough belief about ourselves there's no reason why we can't get something up there on Saturday.
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We have let them off the hook on several occasions and tossed away the lead - we need to be on our game for 90 minutes as against Chelsea.
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Regarding past games against them, it seems as if we're psychologically (if that's the correct term) beaten before we step out on the pitch. They often beat us without having to get out of second gear.
If we have enough belief about ourselves there's no reason why we can't get something up there on Saturday.
True, and no matter how many goals start we gave them they would still come back and beat us usually in the last minuets
The players brains were scrambled and they let the pressure get to them every time
Even the supporters knew what was going to happen and it always did
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Regarding past games against them, it seems as if we're psychologically (if that's the correct term) beaten before we step out on the pitch. They often beat us without having to get out of second gear.
If we have enough belief about ourselves there's no reason why we can't get something up there on Saturday.
It's the same with the fans..... I'm not going and I go to most games. The whole Old Trafford experience is just horrible, from the half and half scarves, the inevitable defeat and the slow journey home.
We should give them a good game, but we won't. The whole world knows their defensive weaknesses.... But we will just sit back and try to hit them on the break and let them have all the possession.
Hope I'm wrong.
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Regarding past games against them, it seems as if we're psychologically (if that's the correct term) beaten before we step out on the pitch. They often beat us without having to get out of second gear.
If we have enough belief about ourselves there's no reason why we can't get something up there on Saturday.
It's the same with the fans..... I'm not going and I go to most games. The whole Old Trafford experience is just horrible, from the half and half scarves, the inevitable defeat and the slow journey home.
I've only seen us win up there once, 1-0 under MON a few years back. My one memory of that game was Petrov belting the ball into the stand with about a minute to go to waste time, it was fantastic.
No you're right it's an horrible place to go, a nightmare to get away from and their fans are getting everything they deserve this season. I'm looking forward to it though.
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I think there's a couple of reasons why Man Utd have had such a good record against us since the mid-nineties:
1) They've consistently spent more on higher quality players and wages than us in that period. If the shoe was on the other foot we would have more of a chance of beating them (see Man City's recent record v Man Utd).
2) Everyone connected with Villa in that period, from the website journalists,to staff (manager/players etc.) - and a high proportion of fans, seem to expect absolutely nothing from the fixture. An inferiority complex has become deep-rooted in Villa's mindset.
I'd imagine Jack Woodward and Paul Brown (?) have spent the past few days going around the players and manager by saying stuff like, "So it's a trip the the mighty Theatre Of Dreams next ..." A constant barrage of small-time guff surely can't help?
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I've just consulted the Magic 8 Ball on this subject. Whilst a lot of questions got negative or uncommital answers, when I asked 'will we win 3-2 against Man Yoo?' the ball replied 'It is decidedly so'.
I think this is conclusive evidence and am going to put on a bundle at Ladbrokes. I suggest you do the same.
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Can we at least wait until after the game before we hold the inquest?
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Disagree. I say we hold our inquest now. An extreme pessimist is usually a tad less dissapointed.
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Can we at least wait until after the game before we hold the inquest?
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I would like to think that the post is intended to tempt fate 😉
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Certainly no better chance to go there and stick it to them -depends which villa turns up of course.
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Certainly no better chance to go there and stick it to them -depends which villa turns up of course.
I've asked Magic 8 Ball 'will the good Villa turn up against Man Yoo?'
8 Ball replied 'Signs point to yes'.
Get in.
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Certainly no better chance to go there and stick it to them -depends which villa turns up of course.
I've asked Magic 8 Ball 'will the good Villa turn up against Man Yoo?'
8 Ball replied 'Signs point to yes'.
Get in.
l
Excellent news Archbishop cockthrottle :)
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We are going to bloody thump them.
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Can we at least wait until after the game before we hold the inquest?
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I would like to think that the post is intended to tempt fate
You know me too well. ;)
In fairness it was just a topic to try to establish just why our record is so bad and we rarely win agaisnt them compared to Chelsea (11 days ago), Arsenal (3 wins in our last 6 at Emirates), Man. City (September) and Liverpool (should've been January but I'm happy enough with 3 unbeaten at Anfield).
All those teams have top players aswell, more so than Man. United these days as the table shows.
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Regarding the history, apart from the obvious that they have had some good sides during the last 20 years I think Sralex was very good at winding our managers up, with a mix of flattery and derision. The only ones that didn't seem to fall for it were BFR and MON.
I'm hoping on Saturday that the under-pressure Moyes will send his team out in "win at all costs" mode, meaning that we can catch them on the break as they pile forward ... although our early-kick-off record (particularly against this lot) is not good.
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If it makes anyone feel better, they did suffer their (joint) heaviest defeat against us. Seven-nil, in 1930. We also share the record for biggest margin of victory against them away from home having won six-nil there in 1914.
See, they're shit against us really.
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United have no hope of the top 4 , I'm not sure either their fans or management would want to be in the Europa league as it could hamper next season - will be interested to see how they approach this game with their huge game 4 days later.
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Must say, I don't want to tempt fate or get over-excited, but this has the scent of the Curse of Losing to the Villa all over it - Bobby Robson, Mourinho, much better than Moyes, but both fell to the Curse. I would be really quite pleased if that happened - but I also want Moyes as manager of United practically indefinitely.
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If it makes anyone feel better, they did suffer their (joint) heaviest defeat against us. Seven-nil, in 1930. We also share the record for biggest margin of victory against them away from home having won six-nil there in 1914.
See, they're shit against us really.
This is the thing about football, things come in cycles and I'm sure there will come a time when we go on as equally a long run of success against them.
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You could equally argue why did we do so well against Coventry even when they were better than us and the game meant much more to them.
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You could equally argue why did we do so well against Coventry even when they were better than us and the game meant much more to them.
Indeed, we even did the double over them the season we were relegated and they finished midtable and won the cup .
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Walked into work this morning and been offered 2 free corporate tickets for saturday .
If we beat them saturday , they will turn on Moyes, it started yesterday , you can feel the tension in Manc red fans, almost very similar to Mcleish with us .
Fingers crossed we can help the process....
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Go for it against them. Kick Welbeck up in the air and wind up Rooney. We've been showing these ****** too much respect for years, and we owe them big time.
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It might help, but probably won't ,that they have a far more important game against Bayern on Tuesday .They will have one eye on that and might just leave one or two out.
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It might help, but probably won't ,that they have a far more important game against Bayern on Tuesday .They will have one eye on that and might just leave one or two out.
April fools day as well- I wonder how many bayern will win by.
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It might help, but probably won't ,that they have a far more important game against Bayern on Tuesday .They will have one eye on that and might just leave one or two out.
Doesn't matter, they pick garbage like Wellbeck, Macheda and Robins against us and they still bloody score.
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We have an almost-equally bad home record against arsenal and liverpool over the last 20 years or so... Anyway, a win on saturday will signal the turning of the tide, the 3-0 at Villa Park (before which i said exactly the same... And the year before, etc) will turn out to be their last for awhile.
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We've had inferior players, teams and managers, that's for sure. But psychologically they've had the edge for a number of reasons. At Villa Park, one reason is that the United players got comfortable playing there, possibly due to their cup semi-final experiences. Overall, we have been content to lose to them because we believe their hype. We expect no more than defeat and there is little or no anger at our consistent failure. We take our punishment, shrug our shoulders and 'go again'. That goes for the club, managers, players and fans. It's the old 'there's no disgrace in losing to... so and so' routine, but to lose so frequently, with such resignation, apathy and fatalism is pretty disgraceful. I really hope we can change that.
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United are a real bogey side. First off they have had a far better side than us for the last 24 years but even when we've been the better side on the day they have managed to pull something out of the hat. We even seem to be the recipitents of top class goals against ie Scholes volley at VP,RVP's title clincher, Macheda etc etc. We did it in 2009 so it's not impossible but like a lot of people I have little expectation from this fixture.
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We have an almost-equally bad home record against arsenal and liverpool over the last 20 years or so... Anyway, a win on saturday will signal the turning of the tide, the 3-0 at Villa Park (before which i said exactly the same... And the year before, etc) will turn out to be their last for awhile.
We have pretty good records at the Emirates and Anfield though. Yes we hardly ever beat either at VP anymore but the games seem closer to me and less heartbreaking anway.
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United have no hope of the top 4 , I'm not sure either their fans or management would want to be in the Europa league as it could hamper next season - will be interested to see how they approach this game with their huge game 4 days later.
I take your point. But if I were Moyes and looking at it from a self preservation point of view I would firstly be wondering how many more games I can afford to lose if I want to be there next season and secondly if beating Villa and an honourable exit to Bayern is better than squad rotation and another home league defeat which will probably be followed by a CL exit anyway.