Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Clark Five on March 18, 2014, 10:24:23 PM
-
Anyone heard anything about the North Stand works? It has gone very quiet of late.
-
Until we start selling out 8-10 games a season whats the point! If Faulkner and Co read this (prior to Saturday) they could have been excused for wanting to down size given the negativity over ST sales
-
Facilities is part of the point. The North Stand will happen.
-
I hope it does...a bigger lower tier would increase atmosphere...but surely something re:plans would have been leaked if it was on a 4-5 year radar?
-
This is a perennial question. It's sign of spring in the air.
-
This is a perennial question. It's sign of spring in the air.
We could do with something to remind me of the spring. It's been a miserable winter here. But yes, this topic always comes up and I for one will miss discussing it when the stand finally goes up.
Seriously though I don't think we need the attendance to justify building it. It has commercial value beyond regular supporters being there. And in any case, our attendance has been superb despite an average season and until very recently terrible home form. I think we'd be fine with a 50,000 capacity.
-
This is a perennial question. It's sign of spring in the air.
We could do with something to remind me of the spring. It's been a miserable winter here. But yes, this topic always comes up and I for one will miss discussing it when the stand finally goes up.
Seriously though I don't think we need the attendance to justify building it. It has commercial value beyond regular supporters being there. And in any case, our attendance has been superb despite an average season and until very recently terrible home form. I think we'd be fine with a 50,000 capacity.
I'd have no qualms about us starting the project, and doing it in such a way that the new stand can accommodate an extension in the way the present one can't.
But boosting the capacity to 50,000k in the short to medium term wouldn't make sense in all honesty -and I say that as someone who has been in favour of extending the ground before.
We don't need to be selling out before we expand, but there does need to be some forward momentum about the place before we even think about getting 40-45k on a regular basis, never mind 50,000.
In all honesty, I think it will take a new owner for that to occur.
-
I'm pretty sure it will be a straight forward case of knock the old stand down and build a new one. Within 5 years. Most likely less.
-
For a while under MON we were getting pretty consistent attendances over 40,000. And MON's brand of football wasn't much better than some of the stuff under Lambert. I think the support is there and if the home form continues to improve and you get a couple of really good players in I believe we could get to 43,000-45,000 each week. The club needs to give fans a reason to come back.
-
We could do with something to remind me of the spring. It's been a miserable winter here. But yes, this topic always comes up and I for one will miss discussing it when the stand finally goes up.
I was listening to talksport on the way home from work and they were talking to a Canadian fella, from your town, a big arsenal fan about Drogba v Henry as to who is better. He mentioned the weather and temperature hovering around -20 for weeks. Now that's cold from my experience in Sweden.
-
Apart from relegation and/or budget constraints there's no reason why a 50,000 capacity shouldn't be implemented at some stage soon. All games against top 4-6 clubs will still sellout or exceed our current capacity, it requires is a good team to either sellout or reach near capacity for matches against the likes of say Hull or Norwich.
Building a stronger squad should come first, re. 'requiring a good team'
-
We should have built it when we were averaging 40k under O'Neill. Every time we've rebuilt a stand over the years our average attendances have gone up, so I don't see why it wouldn't thins time.
Build it and they will come, and all that....
-
We could do with something to remind me of the spring. It's been a miserable winter here. But yes, this topic always comes up and I for one will miss discussing it when the stand finally goes up.
I was listening to talksport on the way home from work and they were talking to a Canadian fella, from your town, a big arsenal fan about Drogba v Henry as to who is better. He mentioned the weather and temperature hovering around -20 for weeks. Now that's cold from my experience in Sweden.
I've been in Canada for 16 years now. All except for two years i've lived in Toronto. This has easily been the worst winter. Cold, snow, never ending. The only time the winter was worse was in those two other years I was in Ottawa where one night with the wind chill it hit -52C. Hideous
-
We should have built it when we were averaging 40k under O'Neill. Every time we've rebuilt a stand over the years our average attendances have gone up, so I don't see why it wouldn't thins time.
Build it and they will come, and all that....
Yes, if our gates were showing an upward curve.
Fact is Villa Park already has quite a sparse feel to it on many a matchday.
Under Little and even Gregory, to a certain extent, we were close to punching our weight as a club. Or closer, at least.
-
The question isn't just "does the North Stand need to be replaced to increase capacity", it is also "does it need to be replaced to improve facilities".
It is a dreadfully outdated stand. I couldn't believe, on the stadium tour, how shabby it is. As for the seating, the views are very good, but if you're over 6 ft tall you will struggle. I couldn't sit comfortably without the back of the seat in front digging into my knees.
If we are going to rebuild to improve facilities, then it obviously makes sense to do so in a way which provides extra capacity if it is needed in the future.
-
For a while under MON we were getting pretty consistent attendances over 40,000. And MON's brand of football wasn't much better than some of the stuff under Lambert. I think the support is there and if the home form continues to improve and you get a couple of really good players in I believe we could get to 43,000-45,000 each week. The club needs to give fans a reason to come back.
Hit the nail firmly oh the head.
-
Agree with you about the legroom Pauliewalnuts ,i am 6 4 and sitting in the north stand is very uncomfortable to say the least .As for getting into the toilets at half time ,you need most of the break to get in and then out .
-
I have to have an aisle seat as otherwise it would be too uncomfortable. Facilities is the main reason it will happen.
-
Some sort of rebuild would speak of our ambition and confidence. Even if just to improve facilities and bring us to 45,000 with possibility of further expansion to follow if success returns.
Need to get bums on the seats though.
Go build I say.
-
Was in the North for Arsenal. Never again. I am 5ft9 and it was uncomfortable for me, took all of half time to get to the toilet and then back again.
It's got to go.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3025479388_d9286e4fce.jpg)
Ideally something like that and not this one:
(http://robosvillablog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/new-north.jpg)
Saying that anything is better than the current one.
-
Lerner needs to communicate with the fans and state his intentions for any future ground expansion. This continual silence is irritating.
-
Lerner needs to communicate with the fans and state his intentions for any future ground expansion. This continual silence is irritating.
Couldn't agree more.
-
Something must be going ahead behind the scenes. This is a huge project; much bigger than the original construction. It won't be finished in a close season.
-
Maybe the reason, is there are no current plans for re-development? I wouldn't expect him to make a statement saying we have no current plans to re-develop the north stand.
-
I think if we had kicked on under O'Neill and maybe cracked the top 4, we would have done it then. Don't think we need extra capacity in terms of seats, but more generous seating dimensions, circulation space and improved facilities would be welcome, from what I've seen on the few occasions I've been in the upper north.
-
I think it will be rebuilt. It has the least contentious name (can't think of any former players/chairmen) so it could be sponsored. Randy and his team appear to be quite good at that side of things so it wouldn't surprise me if they attracted a sponsor to fund the rebuild.
-
Lerner needs to communicate with the fans and state his intentions for any future ground expansion. This continual silence is irritating.
That's a bit melodramatic. What's irritating about it?
-
It does need updating, although there currently isn't the need for extra capacity at the ground. I think they might also wait and see how the safe standing initiative progresses over the next few years before committing to a new stand.
-
You may build a better team that sells out VP, justifying a new stand with bigger capacity, but there's no guarantee that team will still be together by the time it's done. If there's a need, the owners will have looked into it as a long-term venture independent of form on the pitch.
-
The other thing is that a new stand is relatively cheap in footy terms. How much would a wrap around new stand cost? £15m? We do have a billionaire owner as well.
-
The question isn't just "does the North Stand need to be replaced to increase capacity", it is also "does it need to be replaced to improve facilities".
It is a dreadfully outdated stand. I couldn't believe, on the stadium tour, how shabby it is. As for the seating, the views are very good, but if you're over 6 ft tall you will struggle. I couldn't sit comfortably without the back of the seat in front digging into my knees.
If we are going to rebuild to improve facilities, then it obviously makes sense to do so in a way which provides extra capacity if it is needed in the future.
Spot on. It's not necessarily anything to do with capacity and attendance.
-
From what I understand, the plan is to upgrade the existing stand, making it wider and improving facilities, as well as incorporating the ticket office, club shop etc. Decisions like this aren't solely based on increased attendance, its about improving what we currently have...bear in mind that by the time its done, the North Stand will be nearly 40 years old, and that's a lifetime in football. It has to be done.
-
You don't build something when the demand already exists, as you will lose out financially.
Better to invest in the team and the stand now. It would a big signal from the club that we are keen about competing by re-building a new stand and spending £25 million on three or four good players.
-
Aston Villa is a football club first and foremost.
Development of the the team is the priority, as success on the pitch leads to an increase in attendance. Development of the facilities is important but if the team's results are poor, this most important aspect of the club impacts on many other of the club's plans and intentions.
-
Maybe the regeneration of the area as a whole is what the club is waiting for.There must be grants around if you can make it a job creater.
-
Aston Villa is a football club first and foremost.
Development of the the team is the priority, as success on the pitch leads to an increase in attendance. Development of the facilities is important but if the team's results are poor, this most important aspect of the club impacts on many other of the club's plans and intentions.
I don't think it's a case of one or the other (invest in the team and then, if there is success, the ground). The two have to be done in tandem or, at least, planned in tandem. To grow the club in a sustainable way you need to focus on all aspects of the club because each different aspect will have an impact on the other (if that makes sense).
-
I've been in the lower North stand since the away fans were moved and have no complaints. I'm 6ft tall and don't have much difficulties mind you I do stand for a lot of the games when we can.
Perhaps I don't notice that much as I don't use the facilities too often and just enjoy watching football at a reduced price, I would rather keep that than having to pay more money.
-
Wonder if safe standing is coming into their thoughts at all when they talk about the North Stand redev.
-
Wonder if safe standing is coming into their thoughts at all when they talk about the North Stand redev.
Maybe, but would it not be possible to rebuild with the option of safe standing like they have in Germany? They change between seated and safe standing.
-
Wonder if safe standing is coming into their thoughts at all when they talk about the North Stand redev.
Maybe, but would it not be possible to rebuild with the option of safe standing like they have in Germany? They change between seated and safe standing.
You have to be able to use it as seating for UEFA competitions.
-
I've only ever sat in the North Stand once, it was horrible. I assume it was designed with midgets in mind.
-
I've only ever sat in the North Stand once, it was horrible. I assume it was designed with midgets in mind.
It's because it's seats bolted onto terracing. The Lower North was never intended to have seats.
-
I heard an item on the radio a little while ago on a programme about regional investment not football but they quoted the disputed legality under EU law of the subsidized building of the new Bilbao stadium. The figure of 170 million euros sticks in my mind as the overall cost but I cannot be sure but it certainly was a huge sum. The focus of the piece was how little the club actually put into the project. Again my memory of exact proportions are hazy but the central government, the EU, the regional government and the city put up three quarters of the cost. Can you imagine the response Villa would get if they asked for grants of public money to rebuild Villa Park or even the North Stand.
-
I am sure Doug can call up some sub-contractors who will undertake the re build ( for cash ) and it can be called "The other Doug Ellis Stand"
-
Great idea VCTM but Doug is nothing if not trendy. It would be called The Doug Ellis Experience.
-
I've only ever sat in the North Stand once, it was horrible. I assume it was designed with midgets in mind.
I sit in the upper Witton End and I have no problem with seats. I am an average person height and weight wise and not a mid get! However the situation at HT with toilets access etc is unacceptable in this day and age.
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
give them hard hats at least
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
You would think that the new stand wouldn't be fully open until maybe the January/February of the season if demolition/construction started in May.
It must hold about 7500 with perhaps 3000 season ticket holders? The capacity would go down to 35000, maybe lower if they need to join the lower tier of the new North to the Trinity and Witton Lane.
Away fans may take a hit a I suppose, but you would guess that they would be scattered to the wind. I was a season ticket holder in the old Trinity and we were put in the upper tier of where the away fans are now, but I swapped soon after for the upper Holte.
-
From what I understand, the plan is to upgrade the existing stand, making it wider and improving facilities, as well as incorporating the ticket office, club shop etc. Decisions like this aren't solely based on increased attendance, its about improving what we currently have...bear in mind that by the time its done, the North Stand will be nearly 40 years old, and that's a lifetime in football. It has to be done.
be interested to hear more des, but I doubt they would would extend what is already there, more likely they would replace the upper tier at least and most likely the whole lot if seeking to redevelop that end of the ground.
-
won't be started until after the rugby world cup at the very soonest
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
give them hard hats at least
Get them to help out
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
Put specific away fans in that section; Man U/Chelsea come to mind. Tell them to keep an eye out for falling concrete.
-
I agree with the suggestions so far but, in the final stand, I would want away fans in a third tier if it exists, like we have to endure in the north east.
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
Put specific away fans in that section; Man U/Chelsea come to mind. Tell them to keep an eye out for falling concrete.
Why would we warn them?
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
Put specific away fans in that section; Man U/Chelsea come to mind. Tell them to keep an eye out for falling concrete.
Why would we warn them?
Creates apprehension. It's scarier walking into a dark room knowing there might be a monster in there.
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
Put specific away fans in that section; Man U/Chelsea come to mind. Tell them to keep an eye out for falling concrete.
Why would we warn them?
Creates apprehension. It's scarier walking into a dark room knowing there might be Gerry Mcann in there.
I agree
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
Put specific away fans in that section; Man U/Chelsea come to mind. Tell them to keep an eye out for falling concrete.
Why would we warn them?
Creates apprehension. It's scarier walking into a dark room knowing there might be a monster in there.
good point
-
What will they do with all the fans who sit in there while construction goes on?
Put specific away fans in that section; Man U/Chelsea come to mind. Tell them to keep an eye out for falling concrete.
Why would we warn them?
Creates apprehension. It's scarier walking into a dark room knowing there might be a monster in there.
good point
I want us to rename it as well , The Tony Barton Stand on Ron Saunders Way
:D
-
[
I want us to rename it as well , The Tony Barton Stand on Ron Saunders Way
:D
I would vote for that Mr Mole!
-
What are our average attendances over the last say 10 years?
-
What are our average attendances over the last say 10 years?
Just under 37K for the last 10 full seasons.
-
The Ron Saunders stand or the 82 stand it should be called. It was the greatest achievement of our famous club and he should be honoured with that stand named after him.
-
The 'European Cup Winners When You Actually Had to Be Champions To Enter The Damn Competition' Stand?
-
What are our average attendances over the last say 10 years?
Just under 37K for the last 10 full seasons.
When you consider some of the dross served up at home in that period it's a miracle as much as it is impressive it is that high.
-
The Ron Saunders stand or the 82 stand it should be called. It was the greatest achievement of our famous club and he should be honoured with that stand named after him.
get in yes "Saunders", with "Fucking Legend" after it
-
If its going to be named after the greatest moment in our history then please include Tony Bartons name in it somewhere.
-
Bones
Tony Barton should have a plaque with his name on it somewhere on that stand or even the gates to the stand but for me it should be named after Ron Saunders.
-
Couldn't agree more. It ended badly but he turned us from a Division Two side to European Champions in only 8 years. Absolutely his name should be prominently placed somewhere. I wonder though, if he had been approached by Lerner asking questions, whether seeing his shying away from the media, he might have said to Lerner that he'd rather not have a stand named after him as it would mean more exposure to the media.
-
Tony Barton takes the credit for the EC win.
If Ron takes the credit for it then surely Vic Crowe takes the glory of the promotion and league cup double in 1975?
-
Yeah, give it to Vic Crowe. I don't know. I don't remember the 74-77 period. My first game from memory is the QPR Semi-final in 77. But I do remember the 80-82 team and as much as I wanted Tony Barton to succeed in our greatest era, the side that won the European Cup was Ron Saunders'. And I'll go out on a limb and say most Villa fans thought of it at the time as every bit as much Ron Saunders' win was much as ours.
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
-
How about the Saunders and Barton stand?
-
It annoys me that we are discussing this with no grounding. I'd like an update from the club regarding this. The North Stand is fucking horrible. It needs to be done.
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
Internal wranglings and I also think he'd achieved his ambition so he'd lost a bit of his drive.
-
George Ramsay Stand? Won 6 League titles and 6 Fa Cups, seems a forgotten man.
-
It annoys me that we are discussing this with no grounding. I'd like an update from the club regarding this. The North Stand is fucking horrible. It needs to be done.
When we did the tour last year it was embaressing.
The Trinity was superb compared to a 70's throwback - it was dull, cramped and dingy
Put a bleeding museum in it as well! It was noticeable how we all congregated around the memorabilia in the Trinity lounges
-
De Kuip End. Scene of our single greatest achievement.
-
George Ramsay Stand? Won 6 League titles and 6 Fa Cups, seems a forgotten man.
That's a first post and a half! Amen to that.
-
Having read the history of the club many years ago, George Ramsey stand is a brilliant shout.
-
George Ramsay Stand? Won 6 League titles and 6 Fa Cups, seems a forgotten man.
Are you Legion in disguise?
-
It's actually quite a sobering thought to consider how little we have won outside of that period at the end of the 19th century... Thank goodness for the eighties I suppose. Then again we have finished second twice in relatively recent times aswell, and i remember those well. We will be back there again as well, absolutely no reason to think that we won't!
-
George Ramsay Stand? Won 6 League titles and 6 Fa Cups, seems a forgotten man.
On reflection I'd go with this one now
-
George Ramsay Stand? Won 6 League titles and 6 Fa Cups, seems a forgotten man.
Agree strongly. Joined in a kickabout of some enthusiastic amateurs on Aston Park in 1876 and turned them into the most powerful professional sporting organisation in the world in his 59 years of unbroken service. The greatest single individual in our history.
-
It annoys me that we are discussing this with no grounding. I'd like an update from the club regarding this. The North Stand is fucking horrible. It needs to be done.
I'm sure something is going on behind the scenes. Somebody mentioned it a while ago that it might take all of a close season plus the full season after to build.
-
I just hope the lower tier is in similar size to the Holte, with the lower tiers linking round into the Trinity and Witton Lane. That way, the away end will be dwarfed and outsung by the noisy North standers. It would make Villa Park a lot more intimidating.
-
I agree with DC5 in that away fans should be in an upper tier, away from the pitch.
Also, it should be called the Witton End.
-
I agree with DC5 in that away fans should be in an upper tier, away from the pitch.
Also, it should be called the Witton End.
That's what I still call it
-
I agree with DC5 in that away fans should be in an upper tier, away from the pitch.
Also, it should be called the Witton End.
That's what I still call it
When did it change, I know the North stand but always thought it as being on the Witton End.
-
Witton End for me.
-
George Ramsey Stand
William McGregor Stand
Then you can have the Witton Lane with a few enclosures within the stand. the away fans would be in the Saunders Enclosure, or Hodgetts enclosure, or Devey Enclosure...or something.
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
Internal wranglings and I also think he'd achieved his ambition so he'd lost a bit of his drive.
Why would he lose his drive when we were in the QF of the european cup.
If he had stayed we would still have won it. Barton can rightly take some credit but it was Saunders team, no question
-
Witton End for me.
Wit's End would be highly appropriate.
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
Internal wranglings and I also think he'd achieved his ambition so he'd lost a bit of his drive.
Why would he lose his drive when we were in the QF of the european cup.
If he had stayed we would still have won it. Barton can rightly take some credit but it was Saunders team, no question
There was definitely something wrong - the same players were nowhere near as good.
-
It's days like this when a 50k VP would look pretty silly tbh, it looked empty enough today on the tv, what was the official attendance.
I don't subscribe to this "build it and they will come" theory. Our attendances only average close to 40k when we're in the top 6 so we need a better team on the pitch first.
-
It's days like this when a 50k VP would look pretty silly tbh, it looked empty enough today on the tv, what was the official attendance.
I don't subscribe to this "build it and they will come" theory. Our attendances only average close to 40k when we're in the top 6 so we need a better team on the pitch first.
Tad over 30,000. Worst I can remember in the league.
-
Pretty much the same as Norwich.
In fairness our Saturday attendances have held up really well this season but it's the modern way now that 7-8 a season will be moved to Sundays or even worse Monday.
So with a 50k stadium how would you go about attracting a 40k + crowd if the team aren't doing that well on the pitch? It would be a hard sell if we're playing moderate opposition as the win v Chelsea hardly put much on the attendance today. The weather was decent aswell.
-
Pretty much the same as Norwich.
In fairness our Saturday attendances have held up really well this season but it's the modern way now that 7-8 a season will be moved to Sundays or even worse Monday.
So with a 50k stadium how would you go about attracting a 40k + crowd if the team aren't doing that well on the pitch? It would be a hard sell if we're playing moderate opposition as the win v Chelsea hardly put much on the attendance today. The weather was decent aswell.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact we've just won two consecutive home games for the first time in almost four years, and haven't won three in a row since 2007.
Not only that, this season, we've lost nine of our home league games, and also lost at home to a bunch of league one chancers.
We've been desperately poor at home for so long, it is embarrassing. Even when we were finishing sixth three times under O'Neill, we managed to be poor at home.
I'm genuinely impressed we manage to average 35k or so with stats like those, they are truly abysmal.
You're right, a decent team on the pitch will make a huge difference. Our problem is we haven't put a decent team on the pitch at home for a long time.
In fact, we've managed to spend - since Lerner arrived - enough money to put us massively in debt in recent years, yet still didn't buy a single "bums on seats" player in the whole time.
Instead, we spent a huge amount of money on a lot of players in the 8m bracket. Even Milner, a player almost every single one of us would want back, wasn't a ticket-shifter.
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
Internal wranglings and I also think he'd achieved his ambition so he'd lost a bit of his drive.
Why would he lose his drive when we were in the QF of the european cup.
If he had stayed we would still have won it. Barton can rightly take some credit but it was Saunders team, no question
There was definitely something wrong - the same players were nowhere near as good.
So it was the players then, not the manager?
Our relative small squad may have been a factor. It all came together in 81 but we couldn't maintain it in the league in 81/82.
Why throw it all away by leaving us and 2 weeks later moving to SHA.
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
Internal wranglings and I also think he'd achieved his ambition so he'd lost a bit of his drive.
Why would he lose his drive when we were in the QF of the european cup.
If he had stayed we would still have won it. Barton can rightly take some credit but it was Saunders team, no question
There was definitely something wrong - the same players were nowhere near as good.
So it was the players then, not the manager?
Our relative small squad may have been a factor. It all came together in 81 but we couldn't maintain it in the league in 81/82.
Why throw it all away by leaving us and 2 weeks later moving to SHA.
I've no idea but it shows that something wasn't right.
-
It's days like this when a 50k VP would look pretty silly tbh, it looked empty enough today on the tv, what was the official attendance.
I don't subscribe to this "build it and they will come" theory. Our attendances only average close to 40k when we're in the top 6 so we need a better team on the pitch first.
Tad over 30,000. Worst I can remember in the league.
Worst you can ever remember?
-
I don't think Saunders would have won it.
Why?
Internal wranglings and I also think he'd achieved his ambition so he'd lost a bit of his drive.
Why would he lose his drive when we were in the QF of the european cup.
If he had stayed we would still have won it. Barton can rightly take some credit but it was Saunders team, no question
There was definitely something wrong - the same players were nowhere near as good.
So it was the players then, not the manager?
Our relative small squad may have been a factor. It all came together in 81 but we couldn't maintain it in the league in 81/82.
Why throw it all away by leaving us and 2 weeks later moving to SHA.
I've no idea but it shows that something wasn't right.
Probably all to do with Ron Bendall
-
It's days like this when a 50k VP would look pretty silly tbh, it looked empty enough today on the tv, what was the official attendance.
I don't subscribe to this "build it and they will come" theory. Our attendances only average close to 40k when we're in the top 6 so we need a better team on the pitch first.
Tad over 30,000. Worst I can remember in the league.
Worst you can ever remember?
HQ is a nipper.