Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on March 17, 2014, 12:54:15 PM
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Has come in for loads of stick, including me to begin with. He was impetuous, poor timing in tackles and positionally awful at the start of his career and looked even worse when aside Clark. But with the influence of Vlaar and his maturing over time he is starting to really look like a player and i feel has stole a march on Clark to stamp a regular place in the team.
I appreciate that most of the England squad places are taken but there cannot be many better young, English CH's around at the moment.
Eitherway well done son for proving me and a few others i bet wrong - keep it up and make Jores Okore work for his place
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Deserves the plaudits as does lambert for picking him ahead of Clark which surprised many of us , myself included.
All bodes well for the future with the defence looking more solid and okore still to return.
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Agreed Hookey. Fair play to him. Don't underestimate Vlaar's influence.
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He was immense against Chelsea.
When you consider he was booked after 3 or 4 minutes, it was an incredible performance, absolutely faultless.
He never shirks a challenge and is always ready to 'Take one for the team'
Yes, he has his limitations, and I don't underestimate the Vlaar influence, but I think he's a great centre back and will become the backbone of a future Villa defence.
Fair play for the post, too, Hookey.
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It's looking increasingly like we have 4 very good , fairly young central defenders on our hands, even Vlaar has at least 5-6 years at this level, looking ok at fullback as well now, a midfielder who can keep the ball and make things happen and a wide forward who's more suited to the role and we'll be in a pretty good place I think, then it's just about buying competition for places.
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He has looked better lately, but he really needs to work massively hard at his positioning as it's his biggest weakness and leads to his poor tackles.
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He has looked better lately, but he really needs to work massively hard at his positioning as it's his biggest weakness and leads to his poor tackles.
I think he has been, and to be fair to him he didn't put a foot wrong at the weekend. Now, I'll temper that by saying Chelsea only played one up front, and that one being Torres. It's a little different when opponents have played two up front and one or both of the forwards are quick or can turn quickly. He's not as comfortable then (presents Shane "Messi" Long as Exhibit A). But he's coming along and for me until proven otherwise he is in competition with Clark for the 3rd CB spot.
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I thought he was crap for most of the season and clark pretty good. Role reversal of late. I guess that's why you have a squad
Still think Okore will be first choice tho next season
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I'll be the first to admit that he's improving by the game now that he appears to have cut out having visits of the phisyo during each and every game. Saturday was his best showing thus far. While I still think Clark is the better footballer all round Baker is better in the air. If he continues to develop he will be a good option to have should Vlaar or Okore ever be out.
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He's doing well lately. He's definitely improving his concentration. It helps getting to play with an on form Vlaar. Right now Clark and Baker need Vlaar. He's helping to look out for them and develop them and it seems to be paying off.
I think the main thing at the moment which helps is options. With Vlaar fit now we have the ability to take either Clark or Baker out the side when they need it. They're young so occasionally they'll have a bad run. In the past we've lacked the ability to be able to take certain players out the side when things weren't going well.
Look at Bennett last season. Baker and Clark at times in the last couple of years. Luna in the first 5 months this season. They had some horrible runs of form but we couldn't take them out the side.
Lambo seems to have got cover in most positions now, and injuries are beginning to clear. The ability to rotate when needs be is absolutely key. Imagine if Lambert didn't have Bacuna, or didn't fancy him as a fullback? Lowton probably would have played every game this season and given his form when he's appeared this season, we might have suffered for it. Likewise Bacuna had a poor run in December time at RB. Lowton came back in briefly. Bacuna needed that spell out of the backline and out of the firing line to be fair to him. He's come back brilliantly since the turn of the year.
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It's worth remembering that Baker is only 22 which is bloody young to get thrown into a struggling side. Playing alongside Vlaar, who just seems to improve with every game must help and the way we worked the offside trap on Saturday was faultless.
Baker was a very calm, commanding central defender for the Youth/Reserves, he just needs time and experience to bring his qualities to the first team. Saturday was a great example of the player he can be.
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i was hoping that this type of thread would be resisted, on Saturday he's now bound to score an own goal, get sent off and then injure himself walking down the tunnel.
Like Albrighton he's looked better recently but that form needs to be shown over months, not just weeks, before he I am fully convinced.
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i was hoping that this type of thread would be resisted, on Saturday he's now bound to score an own goal, get sent off and then injure himself walking down the tunnel.
Like Albrighton he's looked better recently but that form needs to be shown over months, not just weeks, before he I am fully convinced.
I bet he doesn't make a single mistake on Saturday ;)
( we play on Sunday :) )
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You never rated England international, Champions League, Europa League and FA Cup winner, multi-millionaire, Gary Cahill either, did you Chris?
**winky thing**
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You never rated England international, Champions League, Europa League and FA Cup winner, multi-millionaire, Gary Cahill either, did you Chris?
**winky thing**
I did but we had better ahead of him at the time and he was ambitious and didn't want to wait. In hindsight, fair play to him he took the long way round but he's now playing in a team that managed to limit us to just the one goal at the weekend.
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You never rated England international, Champions League, Europa League and FA Cup winner, multi-millionaire, Gary Cahill either, did you Chris?
**winky thing**
I did but we had better ahead of him at the time and he was ambitious and didn't want to wait. In hindsight, fair play to him he took the long way round but he's now playing in a team that managed to limit us to just the one goal at the weekend.
Strangely enough I was talking about him with my bluenose gaffer this morning, and we both agreed that there is something about him that leaves us both unconvinced.
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You never rated England international, Champions League, Europa League and FA Cup winner, multi-millionaire, Gary Cahill either, did you Chris?
**winky thing**
I did but we had better ahead of him at the time and he was ambitious and didn't want to wait. In hindsight, fair play to him he took the long way round but he's now playing in a team that managed to limit us to just the one goal at the weekend.
Strangely enough I was talking about him with my bluenose gaffer this morning, and we both agreed that there is something about him that leaves us both unconvinced.
Yeah, it's called John Terry.
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It's all down to the beard I reckon. This team always needs at least one bearded type.
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You never rated England international, Champions League, Europa League and FA Cup winner, multi-millionaire, Gary Cahill either, did you Chris?
**winky thing**
I did..
Of course you did, Chris.
(http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/siowfa12/Pinocchio_nose_grows-thumb-350x259-52448.jpg)
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You never rated England international, Champions League, Europa League and FA Cup winner, multi-millionaire, Gary Cahill either, did you Chris?
**winky thing**
I did but we had better ahead of him at the time and he was ambitious and didn't want to wait. In hindsight, fair play to him he took the long way round but he's now playing in a team that managed to limit us to just the one goal at the weekend.
Strangely enough I was talking about him with my bluenose gaffer this morning, and we both agreed that there is something about him that leaves us both unconvinced.
He's whole heated and decent on the ball but I still think he has concentration issues, that's why he's a good centre half but probably, unless he sorts that out, will never be a great one.
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Baker is a long long way away from being an international standard centre half. He's still very much in the process of proving whether he's good enough to play in the Premier League. He has had a couple of good displays, but he's had a lot of shockers as well.
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I'm still not at all convinced by Baker but he has done infinitely better recently and part of that is down to him not going in too hastily, leaving huge gaps in behind him. Also, when has, other players have covered making what mistakes he does make less costly. To be fair to him, he had also covered well. The defence as a whole has looked more organised lately. I really hope he can keep it up. He's a likeable lad and I wish him the best.
But I'd still feel better with a stronger more experienced option at centre half as well as Okore returning.
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I thought on Saturday Nathan baker came of age, his tackling positional sense when vlaar went upfield and his aerial ability was exceptional.
I think a lot of players will have that one game that they will look back on and say that was the turning point hopefully against Chelsea that was his.
If anyone seen ken mcnaughts first load of games for us must of thought what have we signed here and he didn't do to bad for us did he
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If he's ever a quarter as good as McNaught, that will be a bonus.
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I still think he's a bit rash in his decision making some times - as illustrated by the booking he picked up early on Saturday - but no denying he had a very decent game against top quality opposition.
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Baker and Clark are much better when the other isn't in the side.
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But they're both shite. Bring back Okore.
Fuck Bring Polite.
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Baker struggles against forwards with good movement, I'd have been interested to have seen his performance if Eto'o had been fit.
He's improved lately which is good to see.
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Fuck Bring Polite.
Cook Pass Babtridge
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Fuck Bring Polite.
Cook Pass Babtridge
https://twitter.com/JoresOkore/status/367379816301199360
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I've said many times that the goals Cahill scores hide that he is a good defender and nothing more.
As for Baker, he's still only 22 (okay 23 in a month) but very few CB are anywhere near their peak at that age. I doubt many clubs have a 4th choice CB as good as him, or Clark, depending on who you see as 4th choice.
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Two decent fullbacks and an experienced CB partner will help both NB and CC improve. Remember CC's first few games? - he looked great in a reasonably settled defence.
Over the last three seasons it's been tough to see how either of these two would emerge as fully-fledged Premiership players. Next season will tell us, I think.
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I think the first half of this game and him being at fault for all three goals in some capacity shows he is a million miles away from International level and frankly some way short of Premier League standard.
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Not good enough. Never will be. He's an okay 4th choice but you wouldn't want him playing with any sort of regularity. For his own sake, and for ours, I'd move him on in the summer. Championship is his level, and at his age he needs to be playing week in, week out. He's nowhere near good enough to be playing every week at this level. A million miles away. As for International call ups? Well if he's got a relative in Liechtenstein perhaps he can, but for England? No chance.
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Can't question his commitment, but he's an accident waiting to happen. Clark, in my opinion, is better.
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Can't question his commitment, but he's an accident waiting to happen. Clark, in my opinion, is better.
Yep, Clarky has to come back in next week. Okore can't get back soon enough. You cannot trust Baker at all. If he goes 3-4 games looking competent then it's almost inevitable that he's gonna turn into Mr Bean before long.
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He's on ...what £10k per week, has played well in 3 of the last 4 games, Gabby , who has not played a good game since Lplop away, is on £50k per week, and yet we pick on a guy who probably wouldn't be playing today if we had everyone fit.
Midfield is where we lose the game, Baker is what he is, a no nonsense defender, sometimes he has bad games, not bothered, hes young, Gabby meantime is a waste of time.
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Nonsense he played well against Chelsea when they had one out of form forward. The fact he wouldn't be playing if everyone was fit is irrelevant, he's played a lot of games over the last two years and he is nowhere near good enough. Gabby and Bacuna were garbage as well, but Baker's positioning was at fault for 3 goals today.
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Played well against Norwich as well, and Cardiff as well, PW.Selective memory.
Hes not the best player i have seen in a Villa shirt, but there are much more obvious problems than him for me.Drop him for the Ure game, and play Clark, and we are going to win are we?
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I'm not that selective on Baker, I've been pretty clear on what I think of his play. He's a brave player and tries his best, but his positioning and understanding of the game have not developed at all and he just doesn't get it. He tries hard but he will never be a Premier League defender, and he is very much one of our obvious problems.
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Played well against Norwich as well, and Cardiff as well, PW.Selective memory.
Hes not the best player i have seen in a Villa shirt, but there are much more obvious problems than him for me.Drop him for the Ure game, and play Clark, and we are going to win are we?
No we are going to get thrashed whoever plays but Baker was truly, truly awful today.
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Baker, against two forwards was shown again to be the limited footballer that he is. He turns slower than the Number 11 bus, and when there is any kind of movement the player he is asked to mark or cover has a field day. I don't mind him as a number 4 CB, but not in the first two options at all. My guess is in time he'll be overtaken by Donacien for that spot.
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My point is Levico, he has been , unjustly imho, as especially shit today, which he was, but no worse than at least 3 players, who are regular 1st team players, and should shoulder more blame/responsibility than Baker does.
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My point is Levico, he has been , unjustly imho, as especially shit today, which he was, but no worse than at least 3 players, who are regular 1st team players, and should shoulder more blame/responsibility than Baker does.
Today he was responsible for 3 of the 4 goals, that's why he's highlighted. But fair enough, Bacuna was pretty much as bad.
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Lucky he mis-timed that two footed challenge near the end of the game.
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My point is Levico, he has been , unjustly imho, as especially shit today, which he was, but no worse than at least 3 players, who are regular 1st team players, and should shoulder more blame/responsibility than Baker does.
Today he was responsible for 3 of the 4 goals, that's why he's highlighted. But fair enough, Bacuna was pretty much as bad.
This is true, he was arguably the worst of a bad lot but no one emerged with any credit from today's game.
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Surprised he struggled against Crouch, he's usually fine against physical forwards.
He lacks consistency and I think with regards the Chelsea game we were fortunate Eto'o was injured as he's in great form atm and has more movement than Torres and Ba put together.
Just hope Okore can stay fit when he returns as obviously that was going to be the first choice this season so Baker can come in for the odd game and look o.k.
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Baker isn't good enough to be playing any games for Villa if we ever want to get above lower midtable.
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Surprised he struggled against Crouch, he's usually fine against physical forwards.
He lacks consistency and I think with regards the Chelsea game we were fortunate Eto'o was injured as he's in great form atm and has more movement than Torres and Ba put together.
Just hope Okore can stay fit when he returns as obviously that was going to be the first choice this season so Baker can come in for the odd game and look o.k.
I think Crouch is much better on the deck than he's given credit for and his movement off the ball is better than average. For someone so big and awkward looking he's had a very good domestic and international career.
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He has but he's pretty slow so you can defend high up the pitch against him.
Actually Odemwingie has been a really good pick up for them considering they swopped Kenywyne Jones for him,injected some much needed pace into their forward line.
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Baker=Villa at the moment.
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If that's true we're in trouble.
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The very second Okore is fit, Baker can get his tracksuit on. He tries and is nothing but whole hearted but it all comes down to ability. And he lacks it.
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Awful result and it's all Bakers fault!!
From where I was everyone bar Guzan had an awful game, so it's pretty unfair to lump it all on Nathan.
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Awful result and it's all Bakers fault!!
From where I was everyone bar Guzan had an awful game, so it's pretty unfair to lump it all on Nathan.
It's not all Baker's fault, but he was atrocious. Bacuna and Gabby were awful as well.
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I think Crouch is much better on the deck than he's given credit for and his movement off the ball is better than average. For someone so big and awkward looking he's had a very good domestic and international career.
I was just saying this at work this morning. Because of the way he looks, Crouch doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves for his footballing ability
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I think Crouch is much better on the deck than he's given credit for and his movement off the ball is better than average. For someone so big and awkward looking he's had a very good domestic and international career.
I was just saying this at work this morning. Because of the way he looks, Crouch doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves for his footballing ability
Agree
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Baker showed that he is a squad player at best yesterday. His positional play got worse and worse as the game wore on.
Roll on April and the reutrn of the Beast.
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Truly an awful defender. Gonna drop through the leagues like a stone once he leaves us.
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Clark was as rubbish as Baker last season, but good alongside Vlaar this season, can't understand why he got dropped for Baker from Cardiff onwards, albeit he's had a few decent games since until yesterday.
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Baker had been fine in the Norwich and Chelsea games. Hopefully yesterday was a blip.
However, it should be noted that Vlaar was just as bad, if not worse, at times yesterday. As were Bacuna and Bertrand.
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Baker showed that he is a squad player at best yesterday. His positional play got worse and worse as the game wore on.
Roll on April and the reutrn of the Beast.
'At best' being the operative term, because he really isn't good enough.
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4th choice squad player - can perform on his day but like too many in this team that day is not regular enough .
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4th choice squad player - can perform on his day but like too many in this team that day is not regular enough .
More fibre in his diet will help.
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I admire his bravery and full on commitment.
He is not the future of AVFC.
Awful defender.
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Curtis Davies is odds on favourite to be Hull's player of the year according to what I read this weekend.
I suppose that means nothing to us however I remember how we (rightly) wrote him off but yet he's come good.
Given time I think Clark and Baker will become solid centre backs (one, if not both). Whether we can afford them the time to develop is a harder question but as things stand we need to run the club on a shoestring so we should do our best to support Clark and Baker rather then see them as the cause of our problem whereas I think they're just the symptoms of the current malaise.
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Curtis Davies is odds on favourite to be Hull's player of the year according to what I read this weekend.
I suppose that means nothing to us however I remember how we (rightly) wrote him off but yet he's come good.
Given time I think Clark and Baker will become solid centre backs (one, if not both). Whether we can afford them the time to develop is a harder question but as things stand we need to run the club on a shoestring so we should do our best to support Clark and Baker rather then see them as the cause of our problem whereas I think they're just the symptoms of the current malaise.
Tend to agree.
Reading the game is where Baker struggles, but for a centre half, that can come in time.
He has played too many games over the past two seasons though. If we had adequate squad depth, he should have been seeing 10-15 games max.
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Baker is too slow. If a defender is slow he needs anticipation and/or brains and experience.
He doesn't have any anticipation or brains, he's a lummox and i'm not willing to sit by watching him fuck up for the next 3 years in the hope he gains the experience to become average.
Can we please, sometime in the next 2/3/4 years get out of the position of having to pay fucking donkeys like Nathan Baker thousands of pounds a week to be crap.
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He's 22. If he's happy to have a bit-part role over the next few years, I see no reason to bomb him out.
Dunne, Collins, Ridgewell and Curtis Davies were hardly speed merchants either, yet all have carved out reasonable top flight careers.
Our mistake with most of them was paying ridiculous fees and wages. Baker is a local lad, wants to play for the club and has enough of the basics already in place to be a decent centre half (in the old school mould).
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He's 22. If he's happy to have a bit-part role over the next few years, I see no reason to bomb him out.
Dunne, Collins, Ridgewell and Curtis Davies were hardly speed merchants either, yet all have carved out reasonable top flight careers.
Our mistake with most of them was paying ridiculous fees and wages. Baker is a local lad, wants to play for the club and has enough of the basics already in place to be a decent centre half (in the old school mould).
In fairness to Doughey Dunne he was always a fairly fast centre back despite his weight. Both him and Davies would finish a good three seconds before Baker in a 100m sprint. I would compare Baker quite closely to Collins, although that's not necessarily a good thing.
Baker clearly needs a lot of training before he's close to Premier League standard. He's not getting that training now because he's as bad as he was when he first appeared for us 4 years ago. My suggestion would be to get Martin Laursen down at Bodymoor and show him the ropes.
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His insistence on diving in drives me insane.
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Baker suffers, like every one of the "young and hungry" players that have been brought into the club, by not having a nucleus of experienced, battle hardened players within the squad. Players who, not only during the match, but also on the training ground would tell them what they had done wrong and what they should do in a similar situation in the future. Who do we have who can be described as experience and battle hardened - Vlaar? Gabby? anyone else? Don't forget that even the wonderful Kids team that Man U had included at least half a dozen top class senior players who formed the backbone of the team.
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Baker suffers, like every one of the "young and hungry" players that have been brought into the club, by not having a nucleus of experienced, battle hardened players within the squad. Players who, not only during the match, but also on the training ground would tell them what they had done wrong and what they should do in a similar situation in the future. Who do we have who can be described as experience and battle hardened - Vlaar? Gabby? anyone else? Don't forget that even the wonderful Kids team that Man U had included at least half a dozen top class senior players who formed the backbone of the team.
There's a lot of thruth there. I was against it at the time (as I hoped/expected Westwood's form to continue into this season), but how much would Barry have helped our midfield both as a player and an old head to help players along.
With regards to Baker, we could do worse than send him on loan for a season as with experience he could be a premiership standard defender. But to do that we'd probably need to sign someone and I think we have bigger priorities.
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He's 22. If he's happy to have a bit-part role over the next few years, I see no reason to bomb him out.
Dunne, Collins, Ridgewell and Curtis Davies were hardly speed merchants either, yet all have carved out reasonable top flight careers.
Our mistake with most of them was paying ridiculous fees and wages. Baker is a local lad, wants to play for the club and has enough of the basics already in place to be a decent centre half (in the old school mould).
Agree.
You could add our best ever centre half to that list, too. Paul McGrath. Blimey I could walk as fast as his sprint :)
As Dante said:
"Given time I think Clark and Baker will become solid centre backs (one, if not both). Whether we can afford them the time to develop is a harder question but as things stand we need to run the club on a shoestring so we should do our best to support Clark and Baker rather then see them as the cause of our problem whereas I think they're just the symptoms of the current malaise."
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McGrath was quick.
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McGrath was quick.
It was his reading if the game and positioning that was key. Not bad over 5 yards but never quick, he tended to be in the right place at the right time
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McGrath was quick.
It was his reading if the game and positioning that was key. Not bad over 5 yards but never quick, he tended to be in the right place at the right time
Injuries may have hampered him a little, but when you hear his fellow pros talk about Paul McGrath the first thing most of them mention is how quick he was.
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McGrath was quick.
It was his reading if the game and positioning that was key. Not bad over 5 yards but never quick, he tended to be in the right place at the right time
I agree re his reading of the game. He was basically a few seconds ahead of everybody else.
There used to be on youtube (think it has gone now) a clip just showing his interventions in that Italy v Ireland world cup game, and watching that, you see this perfectly.
I wish the clip were still there, it was astonishing to watch.
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From what I remember, the clip also showed how quick he was to get into the positions he needed to. It was a combination of being able to see things as they were happening and move quickly to deal with them that made him so good.
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I'd forgotten about this
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He didn't do so much of it in his latter years, but McGrath could turn on the gas when required.
Remember a goal he set up for us in the City Ground in 1991, when he bombed down the right flank for Mountfield (I think) to head home.
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I recall that it was Can'tscoreino, as he was sometimes called.
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It's true that centre halfs mature lately than probably in any other position, you look at a lot of them in their early 20s and they look like car crashes, people like Dawson and even Davies who I didn't rate at all when he was here once Laursen got injured and yet as they approach 30 they suddenly improve.
Look at how well Cahill is playing nowadays at Chelsea although a lot of that is due to Mourinho who knows how to improve CBs.
I thought Clark was rubbish last season and wrote him off ever being a premier league centre half but I've been pretty happy with his performances this season.
Not sure on Baker. He's decent in some games (usually against slow forwards) but in other games he looks completely out of his depth. Can't see him ever being more than a squad player here but who knows in a years time as I can't see the point of selling him when hopefully he'll just be back up next year.
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My mates just sent me this..@MFVillanews: Nathan baker has been suspended from aston villa football club. #avfc
Anyone heard anything?
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He tried to slide in on the tea lady and clattered into Keane instead?
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I know a bloke who works in some fancy bar in the middle of brum and apparently Baker came in last season with some of his mates and wanted free booze for all of them, and he literally uttered the phrase 'don't you know who I am?' when said mate refused.
I imagine Lambert found out about this and suspended him for being a massive twat.
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My mates just sent me this..@MFVillanews: Nathan baker has been suspended from aston villa football club. #avfc
Anyone heard anything?
Apparently, this chap talks through his bottom :(
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I know a bloke who works in some fancy bar in the middle of brum and apparently Baker came in last season with some of his mates and wanted free booze for all of them, and he literally uttered the phrase 'don't you know who I am?' when said mate refused.
I imagine Lambert found out about this and suspended him for being a massive twat.
Would have been better if your mate would have replied:
"Yeah, you're that calamity of a defender that at best should be playing in league 1"
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I know a bloke who works in some fancy bar in the middle of brum and apparently Baker came in last season with some of his mates and wanted free booze for all of them, and he literally uttered the phrase 'don't you know who I am?' when said mate refused.
I imagine Lambert found out about this and suspended him for being a massive twat.
Would have been better if your mate would have replied:
"Yeah, you're that calamity of a defender that at best should be playing in league 1"
I'd have said something similar
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My mates just sent me this..@MFVillanews: Nathan baker has been suspended from aston villa football club. #avfc
Anyone heard anything?
Maybe it's for falsely impersonating a footballer?
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Wasn't there some incident involving Cup final tickets a few years ago (League Cup 2010 I guess) where he was disciplined for trying to make a few quid by selling on his allocation from the club?
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I know a bloke who works in some fancy bar in the middle of brum and apparently Baker came in last season with some of his mates and wanted free booze for all of them, and he literally uttered the phrase 'don't you know who I am?' when said mate refused.
I imagine Lambert found out about this and suspended him for being a massive twat.
Would have been better if your mate would have replied:
"Yeah, you're that calamity of a defender that at best should be playing in league 1"
I'd have said something similar
This happened last season though. I think it's more likely that the reason is more immediate.
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He could have asked the question why he wasn't first choice centre half and was told the truth without sugar coating the pill and then went off on one with the wrong people. Just guessing.
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Might be a good idea to lock this!
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Might be a good idea to lock this!
Why, do you know something?
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Source, ahem...TBAR:
@doogan_brian: Nathan Baker's supposed 'suspension' is news to everybody at #avfc Utter nonsense
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It's almost like they just make stuff up.
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Might be a good idea to lock this!
Why, do you know something?
No I meant before the usual defamatory remarks start, who started the rumour? Guess irrelevant.
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Fair play to him. Very impressive today.
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Legend..
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I take back 25% of what I've said about him. Very good today.
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Keep it up son...
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He played like someone with something to prove. He's got to be fired up by having the extra competition from Phil and Okore to contend with this season. Plus Nath is now at the age where he's got to have focus in games. He's too old to be forgiven for switching off in games. Today he was incredibly focused from the first to the last minute. He's got to keep it up today though. If he does he'll have a future here.
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He played like someone with something to prove. He's got to be fired up by having the extra competition from Phil and Okore to contend with this season. Plus Nath is now at the age where he's got to have focus in games. He's too old to be forgiven for switching off in games. Today he was incredibly focused from the first to the last minute. He's got to keep it up today though. If he does he'll have a future here.
He always seems to play well with an experienced player alongside.
I think a lot of stick handed out is unjustified.
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It must help him having a secure player outside him.
It is a team game, after all.
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Well played today, has to maintain that level if he wants a future at the club.
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I don't think he missed a single header today. Imperious.
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Well played today, has to maintain that level if he wants a future at the club.
Good thing is he'll know that. There is real competition in defense.
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He had a great game v Chelsea at home last season, especially having been booked in about the fourth minute, so he's got it in him. I really thought he'd got it sussed after that game, but, like the rest of the team, regressed after that. So maybe it was a team thing, and/or the competition motivating him like others have posted.
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He's got guts and character too. Remember Reading away a few years ago. Awful OG then he was a rock as we went on to win 2-1 .
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Never been a fan of Nathan, always thought that he'd better bake bread than playing football, but I have to admit that today he surprised me.
He played like Beckembauer.
Bakermabauer.
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He had a great game v Chelsea at home last season, especially having been booked in about the fourth minute, so he's got it in him. I really thought he'd got it sussed after that game, but, like the rest of the team, regressed after that. So maybe it was a team thing, and/or the competition motivating him like others have posted.
Norwich at home as well.
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I don't think he missed a single header today. Imperious.
If teams are going to lump it in the middle Baker will cope fine. He was superb in the air today.
His problems come when he has to deal with a player running at him directly or when he tries to bring the ball out of defence.
If fact, if Baker does come into possession near the half way line, the safest thing he can do is turn and lay the ball back to Guzan
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I don't think he missed a single header today. Imperious.
If teams are going to lump it in the middle Baker will cope fine. He was superb in the air today.
His problems come when he has to deal with a player running at him directly or when he tries to bring the ball out of defence.
If fact, if Baker does come into possession near the half way line, the safest thing he can do is turn and lay the ball back to Guzan
I'd agree with that.
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That's what he is capable of, and why I was reluctant to get on his case too much. As an option to fill in for the regular centre backs, he is perfectly OK.
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He was good today, but it will take a lot more consistent performances to show he has a future at the club.
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As a 4th choice CB he is fine. The problem comes when he is starting every week as his limitations against pace and skill are shown up.
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Harsh. Good luck picking out a player who will sit behind vlaar/senderos/okore in the pecking order and still put in a performance like that when needed.
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Top man today.
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As a 4th choice CB he is fine. The problem comes when he is starting every week as his limitations against pace and skill are shown up.
Spot on. I do wonder how much Cissokho and the organisation of Senderos helped Baker today. As a backup he is ok.
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As a 4th choice CB he is fine. The problem comes when he is starting every week as his limitations against pace and skill are shown up.
That's possibly a distorted view based on the "full backs" he's been working with in previous seasons. I'd agree now he has competiton for a place though , we may see him flourish, develop and move on a level.
Would anyone drop him for Arsenal if vlaar is fit ?
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If Vlaar is fit, he plays in front of Baker.
We have seen Vlaar consistently perform. Baker has had the odd great game before then tailed into hideous form. He has been awful at times, one performance does not change that. If he performs like he did today every time he is called on, then fantastic and we will have to re-assess, but Vlaar is a much better centre half than Baker, and has also kept 2 clean sheets this season.
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I think even Nathan Baker would play Ron Vlaar ahead of Nathan Baker, despite his superb performance today.
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My nautral reaction when I heard he was stepping in for Vlaar today was one of dread, but by all accounts he had one of his better games and justifyed his selection. Am concerned that Okore seems to be struggling for fittness.
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My nautral reaction when I heard he was stepping in for Vlaar today was one of dread, but by all accounts he had one of his better games and justifyed his selection. Am concerned that Okore seems to be struggling for fittness.
Okore played for the national and U21 in the last week or so I think, so i'm guessing we aren't taking any chances.
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I don't Disagree, vlaar and Swiss Phil v Arse.
Baker Clark and Okore all in the background .
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Was excellent today. Some great blocks.
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Hats off, was excellent yday
But if vlaar is fit there is zero question he gets the nod next week
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He did well yesterday, it has to be said. He could well end up being a good centre half but I don't think he'll ever be good on the ball, which means giving away a lot of possession when the ball is won in defence. Also, he's great at winning headers but the ball can then fly in absolutely any direction, if you shaved his head I think he'd look like Kryton.
You can't fault his effort or his heart but I don't see him ever being a regular starter for anyone better than a lower half of the prem team. Be happy to be proved wrong though.
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I don't hold this "gets shown up against the big teams " arguement, because of his lack of pace .He is a solid 21/22 year old CH, who always gives 100% every time he puts on the shirt.He doesn't deserve the stick he gets imho.
Hes better than Clark, not as good as Vlaar, and probably Senderos.Hopefully Okores will come through, but Baker as 3rd/4th choice is about right.
Rightfully MOM last night, but it was his type of game, but the interception just before H/T was crucial.
Well played to a lad who has come through the ranks.
Enjoy beating the Sad Scouse more than any other team tbh.
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As a 4th choice CB he is fine. The problem comes when he is starting every week as his limitations against pace and skill are shown up.
That's possibly a distorted view based on the "full backs" he's been working with in previous seasons. I'd agree now he has competiton for a place though , we may see him flourish, develop and move on a level.
Would anyone drop him for Arsenal if vlaar is fit ?
Yes. I'd say you'd be the only one on here wanting him to stay in if Vlaar is fit.
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As a 4th choice CB he is fine. The problem comes when he is starting every week as his limitations against pace and skill are shown up.
That's possibly a distorted view based on the "full backs" he's been working with in previous seasons. I'd agree now he has competiton for a place though , we may see him flourish, develop and move on a level.
Would anyone drop him for Arsenal if vlaar is fit ?
Yes. I'd say you'd be the only one on here wanting him to stay in if Vlaar is fit.
Edit: Sorry just seen your post below.
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You can't fault his effort or his heart but I don't see him ever being a regular starter for anyone better than a lower half of the prem team. Be happy to be proved wrong though.
That's fair enough as it's where we've been for three seasons, and it would make him a squad player for a top half team, which is what we should be looking at for our Academy graduates.
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In games like yesterday's, when we set-up to defend deep, Baker is decent. He attacks the ball brilliantly, and his positioning has improved a lot since he first came into the side. It's when we try to defend higher-up the pitch and he gets caught on his heels frequently that he's a bit of a liability. He's also fairly poor in possession, which will always hold him back as a Premiership centre-back, but as Dave says above, he's now showing that he's good enough to be our 3rd/4th choice centre-back.
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I don't hold this "gets shown up against the big teams " arguement, because of his lack of pace .He is a solid 21/22 year old CH, who always gives 100% every time he puts on the shirt.He doesn't deserve the stick he gets imho.
Hes better than Clark, not as good as Vlaar, and probably Senderos.Hopefully Okores will come through, but Baker as 3rd/4th choice is about right.
Rightfully MOM last night, but it was his type of game, but the interception just before H/T was crucial.
Well played to a lad who has come through the ranks.
Enjoy beating the Sad Scouse more than any other team tbh.
He's 23. He was very good yesterday, and hopefully he continues to improve. Being back up may give him the breathing space he hasn't had for the last two years. Be interesting to see what happens when Okore is fit.
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I don't hold this "gets shown up against the big teams " arguement, because of his lack of pace .He is a solid 21/22 year old CH, who always gives 100% every time he puts on the shirt.He doesn't deserve the stick he gets imho.
Hes better than Clark, not as good as Vlaar, and probably Senderos.Hopefully Okores will come through, but Baker as 3rd/4th choice is about right.
Rightfully MOM last night, but it was his type of game, but the interception just before H/T was crucial.
Well played to a lad who has come through the ranks.
Enjoy beating the Sad Scouse more than any other team tbh.
He's 23. He was very good yesterday, and hopefully he continues to improve. Being back up may give him the breathing space he hasn't had for the last two years. Be interesting to see what happens when Okore is fit.
Maybe Lambert rates Baker more than Okore at the moment
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He played well yesterday, but from what I have seen of the Vlaar/Senderos partnership that has to be the way forward for the foreseeable.
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He played well yesterday, but from what I have seen of the Vlaar/Senderos partnership that has to be the way forward for the foreseeable.
Lambert say's that Vlaar is out for a few weeks!
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He played well yesterday, but from what I have seen of the Vlaar/Senderos partnership that has to be the way forward for the foreseeable.
Lambert say's that Vlaar is out for a few weeks!
Do you have a link to that? There's been very little press around his injury
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He played well yesterday, but from what I have seen of the Vlaar/Senderos partnership that has to be the way forward for the foreseeable.
Lambert say's that Vlaar is out for a few weeks!
Do you have a link to that? There's been very little press around his injury
It was a post match interview I think! On O/S
2 minutes and 15 seconds into post match interview with JW.
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He had a great game v Chelsea at home last season, especially having been booked in about the fourth minute, so he's got it in him. I really thought he'd got it sussed after that game, but, like the rest of the team, regressed after that. So maybe it was a team thing, and/or the competition motivating him like others have posted.
Agree fully. I actually had him as my young player of the year in the H&V votes. I thought he was decent for most part of last season but got more flak than most of the team because he was poor and we as a team were dreadful after the first 10 minutes against Stoke. I like Baker and think there's a player there. He was brilliant yesterday. Top class.
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In games like yesterday's, when we set-up to defend deep, Baker is decent. He attacks the ball brilliantly, and his positioning has improved a lot since he first came into the side. It's when we try to defend higher-up the pitch and he gets caught on his heels frequently that he's a bit of a liability. He's also fairly poor in possession, which will always hold him back as a Premiership centre-back, but as Dave says above, he's now showing that he's good enough to be our 3rd/4th choice centre-back.
Good point. Might also go some way to explaining the very deep back line yesterday.
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If Vlaar is fit, he plays in front of Baker.
We have seen Vlaar consistently perform. Baker has had the odd great game before then tailed into hideous form. He has been awful at times, one performance does not change that. If he performs like he did today every time he is called on, then fantastic and we will have to re-assess, but Vlaar is a much better centre half than Baker, and has also kept 2 clean sheets this season.
Yup. One good game every now and then doesn't mean he's suddenly a good player, and certainly not up to Vlaar's level. He looked good yesterday but he'd have to do it on a far more consistent basis and cut out the diving in and getting caught out of position for me to change my opinion of him.
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Baker made ESPN's team of the weekend
http://www.espnfc.us/barclays-premier-league/23/blog/post/2035406/premier-league-team-of-the-weekendsept-13-14
Centre-back: One Villa-supporting friend of mine tweeted "Pray for Nathan Baker" when learning of his selection ahead of a tough-looking trip to Anfield, but the arch-pessimist needn't have worried, for the 23-year-old turned in a magnificent display. This composed and assured performance in the face of Mario Balotelli and company had our pundits purring. "Heroic," cried Nicol. "Dominant and unfazed," screamed Marcotti. "A pillar of defensive strength," hollered Mariner.
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It's a shame that he has had a couple of seasons in a poor Villa defence that has shown him to be overexposed because the performance on Saturday really was top-drawer. If an international defender had have played that well the media would have been enthusing about it. They are with Baker but because of the recent past no-one has dared mention international quality defending when talking about Baker. I'm not saying he should be playing for England now but keep this up and thats exactly where this top of display will lead him. His distribution may be a drawback on the bigger stage but to be fair it's no worse than Gary Cahill's.
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Very well played. I'm not his biggest fan but credit where it is due.
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It helps that there is now a midfield in front of him. If three players worked harder than Delph, Westwood or Cleverley on the week end then I would be surprised.
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It helps that there is now a midfield in front of him. If three players worked harder than Delph, Westwood or Cleverley on the week end then I would be surprised.
Westwood covered more ground than any player in the league this weekend.
I'm not a big Baker fan at all, but would be more than happy to see him play like that every weekend and prove me a numpty.
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
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I've always liked Baker. He's got the ability to be a very dependable defender and he's nowhere near as bad as some people make him out to be.
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
Good points and a home game against Arsenal is probably more of a challenge than Liverpool away. We are very well set up with the right personalities and tactics to win games away from home, but we still can't really find the right formula at home, except in a few passages of play
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
Three points would be better - and it's high time we put them to the sword at Villa Park again.
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Regards Baker I'm chuffed he had a decent game, I'm sure he's a great lad. But he's had decent games in the past. Problem is consistency and a bit of nous. He has neither and it'll take more than one decent game against a powder pop attack to make me change my mind.
Pleased for him though but if he's our back up CH we'll still have issues when we get the inevitable injuries.
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powder pop attack due to our excellent work rate and closing down of avenues, and snuffing out of attacks. Pleased for Baker, hope he can maintain these standards.
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
Good points and a home game against Arsenal is probably more of a challenge than Liverpool away. We are very well set up with the right personalities and tactics to win games away from home, but we still can't really find the right formula at home, except in a few passages of play
Depends how Arsenal approach it really. If they dominate possession and push forward then it will be more like an away game and it might suit us better (Man City and Chelsea at home last season being two examples). We really struggle at home when teams sit in and the onus is on us to dictate the game and try and break them down.
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I would play 2 holding midfielders to try and stifle theirs and try and hit them on the counter.
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I fear for Baker against Arsenal, because they will play it to feet and he struggles to cope with that. I'd be happy to see Okore playing.
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Sit in and play on the counter is exactly how we should go on Saturday.
Anyway, as this is the Baker thread, this apparently isn't his name. He was referred to as Barker and Blake on the RAWK post match thread.
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
Good points and a home game against Arsenal is probably more of a challenge than Liverpool away. We are very well set up with the right personalities and tactics to win games away from home, but we still can't really find the right formula at home, except in a few passages of play
Depends how Arsenal approach it really. If they dominate possession and push forward then it will be more like an away game and it might suit us better (Man City and Chelsea at home last season being two examples). We really struggle at home when teams sit in and the onus is on us to dictate the game and try and break them down.
MOTD highlighted how much space Arsenal leave in full back areas and how they're quite poor at set pieces. As Wenger doesn't normally change his tactics to suit the opposition, I'm backing us to get a goal on the counter and from a set piece.
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
Good points and a home game against Arsenal is probably more of a challenge than Liverpool away. We are very well set up with the right personalities and tactics to win games away from home, but we still can't really find the right formula at home, except in a few passages of play
Depends how Arsenal approach it really. If they dominate possession and push forward then it will be more like an away game and it might suit us better (Man City and Chelsea at home last season being two examples). We really struggle at home when teams sit in and the onus is on us to dictate the game and try and break them down.
MOTD highlighted how much space Arsenal leave in full back areas and how they're quite poor at set pieces. As Wenger doesn't normally change his tactics to suit the opposition, I'm backing us to get a goal on the counter and from a set piece.
No Debuchy for Arsenal as well, so with a bit of luck a couple of them will go down to niggly injuries against Dortmund in the week.
They currently only have four fit defenders, so Lord knows what they will do if they lose another one or two.
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Stewart Robson has been slating Wenger for years for leaving too much space behind his full backs, doubt he'll change his policy now, well until after Saturday.
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Lambert did indeed confirm Vlaar is out "for a few weeks".
Judging by recent history, that means he'll be out until about the end of November
Baker did extremely well v Liverpool,but as others have said, it's a different kettle of fish when you're on the front foot and there are those wide open spaces at villa park that you can drive a coach and horses through if the defence isn't organised enough.
Senderos will need to keep stepping up. And I'm hoping Okore can get up and running quickly. He looked good at the start of last season. He and Baker are almost polar opposites as central defenders so we might need to mix and match. I'm not sure I'd play Okore away at west ham or stoke until he's well settled in
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Not wanting to put a dampener on things, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we set-up against Arsenal if Vlaar is still out. They’re not the kind of team that we can drop that deep against and hope to hold-out. They won’t resort to throwing hopeful balls into the box for us to defend, they’ll actually try to walk the ball-in – and showed against man city at the weekend that they’re capable of doing it. It’d be harsh to drop Baker after that performance, but I’d be looking at a more mobile centre-back (Okore or- at a push- Clark) to come in and play alongside Senderos, and also probably sacrifice Richardson for Sanchez to try to close-off a lot of the central gaps that Ramsay and Wilshere like to play in. The good thing after our win at Anfield, is that a point would represent a really good result now.
Good points and a home game against Arsenal is probably more of a challenge than Liverpool away. We are very well set up with the right personalities and tactics to win games away from home, but we still can't really find the right formula at home, except in a few passages of play
Depends how Arsenal approach it really. If they dominate possession and push forward then it will be more like an away game and it might suit us better (Man City and Chelsea at home last season being two examples). We really struggle at home when teams sit in and the onus is on us to dictate the game and try and break them down.
MOTD highlighted how much space Arsenal leave in full back areas and how they're quite poor at set pieces. As Wenger doesn't normally change his tactics to suit the opposition, I'm backing us to get a goal on the counter and from a set piece.
No Debuchy for Arsenal as well, so with a bit of luck a couple of them will go down to niggly injuries against Dortmund in the week.
They currently only have four fit defenders, so Lord knows what they will do if they lose another one or two.
Something I think you called on deadline day, them having so few defenders.
Apparently they have a reserve fill back they rate highly, but a couple of injuries against Dortmund would really hurt them. I would imagine Benteke is looking at Callum Chambers and salivating for a 15 minute bosh.
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Nathan had a great game on Sat...but it was almost complete out and out defending...heading, blocking, tackling. And these are his strengths!
He occasionally gets it wrong positionally and seems to be utterly at sea with the ball at his feet and a second or two of time in which to use it...
Would love to see him prove us all wrong and become a totally assured total footballing total footballer under the guidance of Ron and Phillipe!
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Just on 5Live that Arse playing some kid in defence tomorrow cos they are short in defence!
Hahahahahahahahahahah.........
Unleash the Gabby!
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Beards
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Sit in and play on the counter is exactly how we should go on Saturday.
Anyway, as this is the Baker thread, this apparently isn't his name. He was referred to as Barker and Blake on the RAWK post match thread.
He's lucky that people on here aren't referring to him as "Bakere"
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He did well on Saturday, still got caught out of position a couple of times, but Cisskho and Senderos helped him out and he settled well. Him and Clark both look better with a senior defender alongside them and most of the complaints about them stem from the periods where they've been paired together, at which point Baker wanders out of position too often and Clark spends too much time trying to organise the defence and forgets about his own game.
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Named in the Non-La Liga Team of the week in Spain.
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/aston-villa-youngster-named-one-of-europe-s-best-this-week
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he'll be off to Barca in the summer then :-)
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They picked a pair of Fanni's at the back then;-)
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Given that England caps are dished out much more easily these days it can't be too long, should Baker continue his development apace, before he gets recognition from Roy Hodgson. Aston Villa will hope that only underlines his future with the club rather than presents the opportunity to go and sit on a bench elsewhere.
:o
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They picked a pair of Fanni's at the back then;-)
Its an American style formation to have them at the back. The British preference is to have them up front.
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Given that England caps are dished out much more easily these days it can't be too long, should Baker continue his development apace, before he gets recognition from Roy Hodgson. Aston Villa will hope that only underlines his future with the club rather than presents the opportunity to go and sit on a bench elsewhere.
:o
The author completely lost me at that point. Didn't bother with the rest.
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Given that England caps are dished out much more easily these days it can't be too long, should Baker continue his development apace, before he gets recognition from Roy Hodgson. Aston Villa will hope that only underlines his future with the club rather than presents the opportunity to go and sit on a bench elsewhere.
:o
The author completely lost me at that point. Didn't bother with the rest.
There's no way Baker is international class, but that hasn't hindered dozens of other England centre halves down the years.
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That lad playing for United will be in the England side in the next game anyway. On account of him playing for United. Baker would have to have an incredible couple of seasons to be anywhere near it. Maybe when he gets to 28-30 he might have learned the positional sense, but I doubt it.
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Baker for England?
I think john Terry's got more chance
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Sounds like Baker had a decent game at anfield, but Vlaar has to come back when fit, he is clearly the better player.
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Given that England caps are dished out much more easily these days it can't be too long, should Baker continue his development apace, before he gets recognition from Roy Hodgson. Aston Villa will hope that only underlines his future with the club rather than presents the opportunity to go and sit on a bench elsewhere.
:o
The author completely lost me at that point. Didn't bother with the rest.
The only excuse would be if this was the first time that the author had seen Baker play and that he had never read anything written about the player before. No-one with even a passing knowledge of Baker's previous performances would make the England claim unless they were being sarcastic.
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Nathan Baker's performance is like seeing a swallow in the sky on a beautiful day in March.
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That's very Cantona.
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Yeah I'm sorry, but I'm fairly sure Baker probably isn't good enough on a consistent basis for the Premier League let alone international football.
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At least he shows he can do it, working on consistency is far easier than not having the ability in the first place. Hope he continues to develop and can deliver these performances week in week out.
If I was England manager though I would be getting Shawcross in the squad at the moment. He has been well and truly shafted
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At least he shows he can do it, working on consistency is far easier than not having the ability in the first place. Hope he continues to develop and can deliver these performances week in week out.
If I was England manager though I would be getting Shawcross in the squad at the moment. He has been well and truly shafted
Baker can handle it if teams play very direct against him and if we sit back and defend. However if teams play it to feet and we try to attack his positioning and lack of awareness are exposed and he's shown to be very limited.
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i remeber him having a great game against Arse, and they play it to feet. infact i tended to worry more with BigSamLongBallTactics against him if he makes a misjudgement and then looks to maim the player coming through
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It's not particularly that there's a specific style of play he struggles with, it's that sometimes he just switches off.
Add to that the fact that's he's very nervy in possession and you get the player we've seen who has the odd good game but too often ruins an otherwise decent performance with a couple of howlers. If he can fix the concentration issue and work on his passing game he can make it but he's getting to the age and more importantly the number of appearances where these problems should be mostly sorted by now.
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I like Nathan, but he is some way off international football.
His positioning is -at times- even ropey for a PL centre half. And I agree on the point about concentration too.
We've seen how Jagielka, anotherwise decent centre half, doesn't look cut out for the elite level. Baker is a couple of notches below Jagielka.
He has time on his side. Different players develop at different rates. For him, the penny might drop when he is 25/26. But for now, he is isn't even ready to be a regular in our side, nevermind talk of international football.
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I like Nathan, but he is some way off international football.
His positioning is -at times- even ropey for a PL centre half. And I agree on the point about concentration too.
We've seen how Jagielka, anotherwise decent centre half, doesn't look cut out for the elite level. Baker is a couple of notches below Jagielka.
He has time on his side. Different players develop at different rates. For him, the penny might drop when he is 25/26. But for now, he is isn't even ready to be a regular in our side, nevermind talk of international football.
over 100 senior professional appearances now though, The concentration issue (which underpins the positioning issue) I can hold out a little longer for but his passing is a big concern. Last season he averaged 23 passes a game at 68% completion so 7-8 passes per game that he's given the ball away, even if some of those are long punts up field it's still far too high.
Vlaar, in the same team and with the same focus on booting it up field, averaged 80%, which is much closer to what should be expected.
Clark had a bad year last season (after starting well) and even still he was 73%, he's normally up around 80% as well.
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He'll never be a great passer from the back, but then neither were Teale, Ehiogu, Collins, Dunne or countless others.
The game has changed, but he is more in the traditional mould of a stopper. There is still a role for a player like that (though maybe not as first pick for the better sides). He does need to work on his distribution, if only to move it up from suspect to functional. Simple passes from left to right he is OK with. Left to left or using his right peg is clearly an issue.
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He's actually not too bad against the top teams, he frequently has brilliant games against Chelsea at home.
He was awful end of last season and that was mostly against bottom half teams in the run in.
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Is there anybody ahead of Baker as this year's player of the season so far?
Damning with the very faintest of praise, but I don't think we've had too many better players up to now.
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Is there anybody ahead of Baker as this year's player of the season so far?
Damning with the very faintest of praise, but I don't think we've had too many better players up to now.
Alan Hutton
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Is there anybody ahead of Baker as this year's player of the season so far?
Damning with the very faintest of praise, but I don't think we've had too many better players up to now.
Alan Hutton
I was going to post that, put Baker seems to be doing the seemingly impossible in this team, namely improving.
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Any news on what injury Baker suffered after being stretchered off?
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Improving but he is made of glass.
Thought he was going off in the first half when he seemed to do his hamstring.
The injuries disrupt the good form he's in.
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I would have said Senderos myself. We've missed his organisation and communication since he got injured.
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Improving but he is made of glass.
Thought he was going off in the first half when he seemed to do his hamstring.
The injuries disrupt the good form he's in.
He goes to ground too much still, even despite his good form this season. It's going to cost him in the long run. He's a brave lad but the best defenders are ultimately the ones who only have to go to ground as an absolute last resort. He's not doing his body any favours.
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Thought he was immense today
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Is there anybody ahead of Baker as this year's player of the season so far?
Damning with the very faintest of praise, but I don't think we've had too many better players up to now.
I had him as my young player last year. Save the final run in where everyone turned useless, I thought he was playing well and had developed nicely. He has been our best defender this season. He wins everything in the air and closes down better than most. he was a lot better than Vlaar today.
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Is there anybody ahead of Baker as this year's player of the season so far?
Damning with the very faintest of praise, but I don't think we've had too many better players up to now.
I had him as my young player last year. Save the final run in where everyone turned useless, I thought he was playing well and had developed nicely. He has been our best defender this season. He wins everything in the air and closes down better than most. he was a lot better than Vlaar today.
I think he's been second only to Hutton. Probably on a par with Big Phil too, who's been surprisingly good so far.
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Really? Has well as Hutton has defended he has offered nothing going forward. I think Lowton has looked far better since coming back.
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I think Baker has been good this season and I thought he had a good run last year too. He's brave as they come and will continue improving . Hope the injury isn't a bad one .
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Villa defender injured. Those three words combined usually mean we won't be seeing him back any time soon.
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I still don't particularly rate him but I do like his attitude and commitment.
A return to the Vlaar/Senderos partnership will, in my view, improve us. We were very solid defensively in the first few weeks and, given our lack of goals, getting back to that offers our best hope of improving results at the moment.
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Really? Has well as Hutton has defended he has offered nothing going forward. I think Lowton has looked far better since coming back.
Lowton was okay yesterday, certainly going forward. It was his best game in over a year. The previous games he's been in I thought he looked pretty shit to be honest and very suspect defensively. He still did somewhat yesterday.
Hutton has been very good. But honestly it's Lambert's insistence on our fullbacks being our only creative outlet which is the problem. Hutton's never had a fantastic delivery. It shouldn't be all on him/Lowton and Cissokho to create all our chances.
Since we've spent 90% of the season defending though, Hutton's done that job very well. And often he's been the only player who's shown a desire and drive to try and make something happen in attack. Whilst our midfield seem content to pass sideways and disappear from games.
We've missed his desire and resoluteness I think. Lowton's a little boy lost at this level more often than not.
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Thus far this season I'd say that Baker, Guzan, Hutton and Senderos get pass marks. Sanchez looks promising and will hopefully develop. Even then I think if the season were to end now, our player of the year would be a solid 7/10 and nothing more.
Everyone else has been a mind numbing disappointment. Even Delph to a large extent before his injury to be honest. Cissokho started well but honestly, he's fallen apart in the last 7 games IMO. He looks like bambi on ice going forward and he looks like an accident waiting to happen in defence. Sadly he's starting to look like the player we all groaned at when he was first linked with us.
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Thus far this season I'd say that Baker, Guzan, Hutton and Senderos get pass marks. Sanchez looks promising and will hopefully develop. Even then I think if the season were to end now, our player of the year would be a solid 7/10 and nothing more.
Everyone else has been a mind numbing disappointment. Even Delph to a large extent before his injury to be honest. Cissokho started well but honestly, he's fallen apart in the last 7 games IMO. He looks like bambi on ice going forward and he looks like an accident waiting to happen in defence. Sadly he's starting to look like the player we all groaned at when he was first linked with us.
I agree with the above comments 100%.
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I still don't particularly rate him but I do like his attitude and commitment.
A return to the Vlaar/Senderos partnership will, in my view, improve us. We were very solid defensively in the first few weeks and, given our lack of goals, getting back to that offers our best hope of improving results at the moment.
Nail on head.
His buccaneer tackles might be fan pleasers but they're generally the result of him falling asleep and finding himself horribly out of position. He's also the worst passer in the entire team and his regular blind hoofs forward just bring more pressure on to us.
The fact he's in the first team shows how desperately poor this side is.
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I still don't particularly rate him but I do like his attitude and commitment.
A return to the Vlaar/Senderos partnership will, in my view, improve us. We were very solid defensively in the first few weeks and, given our lack of goals, getting back to that offers our best hope of improving results at the moment.
Nail on head.
His buccaneer tackles might be fan pleasers but they're generally the result of him falling asleep and finding himself horribly out of position. He's also the worst passer in the entire team and his regular blind hoofs forward just bring more pressure on to us.
The fact he's in the first team shows how desperately poor this side is.
He's the sort of Centre back I imagine playing for Milwall and being a fan favourite. Big, clumsy last ditch merchant, coming out of games bruised and bloodied.
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I still don't particularly rate him but I do like his attitude and commitment.
A return to the Vlaar/Senderos partnership will, in my view, improve us. We were very solid defensively in the first few weeks and, given our lack of goals, getting back to that offers our best hope of improving results at the moment.
Nail on head.
His buccaneer tackles might be fan pleasers but they're generally the result of him falling asleep and finding himself horribly out of position. He's also the worst passer in the entire team and his regular blind hoofs forward just bring more pressure on to us.
The fact he's in the first team shows how desperately poor this side is.
He's the sort of Centre back I imagine playing for Milwall and being a fan favourite. Big, clumsy last ditch merchant, coming out of games bruised and bloodied.
The Championship is his level. I can see him ending up there (hopefully not with us!) and he'll be a club captain somewhere.
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Is there anybody ahead of Baker as this year's player of the season so far?
Damning with the very faintest of praise, but I don't think we've had too many better players up to now.
Really, I thought he was useless in the last two months after being o.k for much of the season, like the team.
I had him as my young player last year. Save the final run in where everyone turned useless, I thought he was playing well and had developed nicely. He has been our best defender this season. He wins everything in the air and closes down better than most. he was a lot better than Vlaar today.
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Really, I thought he was useless in the last two months after being o.k for much of the season, like the team.
[/quote]
Is that not what Peter is saying? That he was fine for most of the season, then like the rest of the team he was rubbish for the last two months?
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I still don't particularly rate him but I do like his attitude and commitment.
A return to the Vlaar/Senderos partnership will, in my view, improve us. We were very solid defensively in the first few weeks and, given our lack of goals, getting back to that offers our best hope of improving results at the moment.
Nail on head.
His buccaneer tackles might be fan pleasers but they're generally the result of him falling asleep and finding himself horribly out of position. He's also the worst passer in the entire team and his regular blind hoofs forward just bring more pressure on to us.
The fact he's in the first team shows how desperately poor this side is.
I agree with this. The great defenders very rarely had to make Big Tackles, and were generally better than to boof it forward in blind panic.
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Really? Has well as Hutton has defended he has offered nothing going forward. I think Lowton has looked far better since coming back.
Lowton was okay yesterday, certainly going forward. It was his best game in over a year. The previous games he's been in I thought he looked pretty shit to be honest and very suspect defensively. He still did somewhat yesterday.
Hutton has been very good. But honestly it's Lambert's insistence on our fullbacks being our only creative outlet which is the problem. Hutton's never had a fantastic delivery. It shouldn't be all on him/Lowton and Cissokho to create all our chances.
Since we've spent 90% of the season defending though, Hutton's done that job very well. And often he's been the only player who's shown a desire and drive to try and make something happen in attack. Whilst our midfield seem content to pass sideways and disappear from games.
We've missed his desire and resoluteness I think. Lowton's a little boy lost at this level more often than not.
Lowton was pretty solid yesterday and defended very well. A lot of balls were aimed down his channel second half and he covered nearly everything and was always a willing 'out'. He didn't get forward too much because he had no-one to cross it to with Benteke out so he came inside looking to up the tempo with some give and go's. Towards the end he did a very good job of snuffing a lot of West Ham's attempted attacks and crosses out.
The way we are set up with the diamond means he , and Cissokho, are even more exposed and he think since his return he has stood up well to the task. i wouldn't drop him when Hutton returns.
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Really, I thought he was useless in the last two months after being o.k for much of the season, like the team.
Is that not what Peter is saying? That he was fine for most of the season, then like the rest of the team he was rubbish for the last two months?
[/quote]
It is, I missed a comma in his post where I thought he said Baker was still good while everyone turned shite in the run in.
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I still don't particularly rate him but I do like his attitude and commitment.
A return to the Vlaar/Senderos partnership will, in my view, improve us. We were very solid defensively in the first few weeks and, given our lack of goals, getting back to that offers our best hope of improving results at the moment.
Nail on head.
His buccaneer tackles might be fan pleasers but they're generally the result of him falling asleep and finding himself horribly out of position. He's also the worst passer in the entire team and his regular blind hoofs forward just bring more pressure on to us.
The fact he's in the first team shows how desperately poor this side is.
I agree with this. The great defenders very rarely had to make Big Tackles, and were generally better than to boof it forward in blind panic.
He doesn't make the big last challenge for any other reason that his big long legs and decent pace helps him get back, or across, to cover. He's getting better at it too and is rarely judging them incorrectly. Nor is he doing because he's out of position it's usually on the back of a ball being played down the channel and our centre-halves being exposed. Tony Adams made a career out of it and he's not as good as Baker is at the same age.
I agree with his passing but he is okay on the ball. He's nowhere near as good as the other centre-halves on the ball and has little composure when under pressure so will resort to the long ball. But, if you drill into him to hit the channels at that point then he, and the forwards not what to do and where to play that pass.
I like Baker and of course I can see the faults. But, I think he has looked our 2nd best centre-half after Senderos this season. It was also noticeable that although the way were going to win headers with players they brought on yesterday, we didn't win nearly as many in the air after Baker went off. Ithink he would have dealt with Carroll comfortably.
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I'm sorry, I just can't agree. I don't know if I've ever seen a defender turn in panic and sprint in the direction of the spot he should have been more than Baker.
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That's age and a lack of a leader next to him talking to him throughout most of a career that should have been spent mostly on the bench or on loan learning. He's had to learn from the front line. He's taken it upon himself to try and be the leader. He was very rash and raw but is slowly but surely developing and maturing. Vlaar isn't good for him but I think Senderos will. Although it's a season or two after it should have been.
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I've said many times in the past, Baker will be a James Collins type defender. A level below very good, but still good enough to have a decent career.
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That's age and a lack of a leader next to him talking to him throughout most of a career that should have been spent mostly on the bench or on loan learning. He's had to learn from the front line. He's taken it upon himself to try and be the leader. He was very rash and raw but is slowly but surely developing and maturing. Vlaar isn't good for him but I think Senderos will. Although it's a season or two after it should have been.
Exactly. He'll be 24 before this season's out, he's not a kid anymore. At what point does potential run out and you accept he's just not good enough?
One of Lambert's biggest failings in my eyes is his apparent complete inability to develop a player. Baker and Clark are prime examples of that.
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That's age and a lack of a leader next to him talking to him throughout most of a career that should have been spent mostly on the bench or on loan learning. He's had to learn from the front line. He's taken it upon himself to try and be the leader. He was very rash and raw but is slowly but surely developing and maturing. Vlaar isn't good for him but I think Senderos will. Although it's a season or two after it should have been.
Exactly. He'll be 24 before this season's out, he's not a kid anymore. At what point does potential run out and you accept he's just not good enough?
One of Lambert's biggest failings in my eyes is his apparent complete inability to develop a player. Baker and Clark are prime examples of that.
Yet he's turned Delph into an England international.
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That's age and a lack of a leader next to him talking to him throughout most of a career that should have been spent mostly on the bench or on loan learning. He's had to learn from the front line. He's taken it upon himself to try and be the leader. He was very rash and raw but is slowly but surely developing and maturing. Vlaar isn't good for him but I think Senderos will. Although it's a season or two after it should have been.
Exactly. He'll be 24 before this season's out, he's not a kid anymore. At what point does potential run out and you accept he's just not good enough?
One of Lambert's biggest failings in my eyes is his apparent complete inability to develop a player. Baker and Clark are prime examples of that.
Yet he's turned Delph into an England international.
1 improvement vs two dozen who have stagnated doesn't really prove your point.
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That's age and a lack of a leader next to him talking to him throughout most of a career that should have been spent mostly on the bench or on loan learning. He's had to learn from the front line. He's taken it upon himself to try and be the leader. He was very rash and raw but is slowly but surely developing and maturing. Vlaar isn't good for him but I think Senderos will. Although it's a season or two after it should have been.
Exactly. He'll be 24 before this season's out, he's not a kid anymore. At what point does potential run out and you accept he's just not good enough?
One of Lambert's biggest failings in my eyes is his apparent complete inability to develop a player. Baker and Clark are prime examples of that.
Yet he's turned Delph into an England international.
1 improvement vs two dozen who have stagnated doesn't really prove your point.
It does when you say "complete inability". There are other players who he's brought in and improved - Benteke for one - which is what makes him so annoying. When he does try to do what we want he sometimes succeeds, then goes back into his tried and failed methods.
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How many of these players has he improved and how many have developed their natural ability due to just that and age? Given his more than apparent lack in developing the squad into a decent team, I am sceptical that he has had too much to do with developing individual players.
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Thew good things are down to someone else and the bad things are down to him. That figures.
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not sure who has said that but I don't think that Delpg being an England international is just down to lambert. That is a very simplistic way of seeing things.
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Delph always had a lot of potential even when he wasn't doing it, despite the views of several people on here. Lambert deserves credit but I think he'd have come good either way
Whereas I've never seen the same degree of potential with gardner - but very prepared to give him a chance. He might be 23+ before he really starts to show his capabilities
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Thew good things are down to someone else and the bad things are down to him. That figures.
Yet on the flip side you're defending Lambert's record in developing players by pointing to pretty much the only player to improve since Lambert arrived.
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Baker seems to have improved a lot from last season. Unfortunately Clark's going the other way. I think he only came on in injury time yesterday and could have had 2 penalties awarded against him in the same incident. His arm shouldn't have been in the air like it was and you can't be diving in like he did, even if the West Ham player did make the most of it.
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Baker seems to have improved a lot from last season. Unfortunately Clark's going the other way. I think he only came on in injury time yesterday and could have had 2 penalties awarded against him in the same incident. His arm shouldn't have been in the air like it was and you can't be diving in like he did, even if the West Ham player did make the most of it.
Clark came on to help combat Carroll and it didn't work at all. He could have scored twice in his 3 minute cameo.
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I have zero confidence in Clark. Baker has improved since last season which is credit to him.
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Thew good things are down to someone else and the bad things are down to him. That figures.
Yet on the flip side you're defending Lambert's record in developing players by pointing to pretty much the only player to improve since Lambert arrived.
Of course it is entirely possible that lambert has had some influence in Delph's development but where would he have done it? On the training ground? Where he was clearly so absent that Karsa and Culverhouse were able to create an environment where bullying was allowed to thrive. he couldn't have done it in private one-to-ones because the very same bullying would have come to his attention at lot sooner than it did. Given how poorly the team has developed and seems to have gone back from a counter-attacking team to one that just looks to nick a goals and shut up shop, I am very much in the doubtful camp that benteke and Delph's progress has been anything but their own ability plus one or two others at Bodymoor Heath that has allowed them to develop.
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I'm not even convinced Benteke has improved. We paid £8m for him and his best season for us was his first. He's obviously had injuries but I don't see any evidence he's better than he was in that first season.
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Some of this stuff on baker is well harsh.
He was superb yesterday , he had Sagbo (sp ?) in his back pocket all game and he was on for a PL record if he'd scored . Cut baker some rope I say.
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Baker's concentration has largely been pretty decent this season. He's not making too many unforced errors or switching off much. If anyone has looked ropey this season, Clark aside, it's been Blamanche Ron. The much maligned Baker and Senderos have played well. The midfield in front of them, Sanchez aside, doesn't really doing anything defensively, which leads to a lot of spectacular diving blocks.
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A lot of the problem re lack of concentration/ being in wrong position etc can possibly be put down to the fact that the midfield and especially the front men don't hold the ball and give the defence time to get their second breath. It seems as soon as we clear it, ok sometimes its a hoof but not always, then within seconds the opposition are attacking again.
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A lot of the problem re lack of concentration/ being in wrong position etc can possibly be put down to the fact that the midfield and especially the front men don't hold the ball and give the defence time to get their second breath. It seems as soon as we clear it, ok sometimes its a hoof but not always, then within seconds the opposition are attacking again.
It's a good point, but then again we have that problem everywhere, where the different parts of the team seem to actually work against each other.
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The thing is and we saw it fleetingly at the weekend, we can knock it about and string a few passes together. I genuinely we have players that can do that and actually want to. It's the complete lack of movement in the final third that leads to us just whacking it aimlessly to the flanks that kills us all too often. With a more technical manager who would address that problem I think the likes of Cleverley or Westwood would improve no end. Fuck, even Pulis would figure it out.
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I'm confident that with the right coaching we could become a possession based team but Lambert keeps coming out with this line about possession not mattering. Whilst games can be won with the minority of possession, having that as your ruling tactic is crazy.
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A lot of the problem re lack of concentration/ being in wrong position etc can possibly be put down to the fact that the midfield and especially the front men don't hold the ball and give the defence time to get their second breath. It seems as soon as we clear it, ok sometimes its a hoof but not always, then within seconds the opposition are attacking again.
It's a good point, but then again we have that problem everywhere, where the different parts of the team seem to actually work against each other.
Yet another point that supports the team is less than the sum of it's parts theory.
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The thing is and we saw it fleetingly at the weekend, we can knock it about and string a few passes together. I genuinely we have players that can do that and actually want to. It's the complete lack of movement in the final third that leads to us just whacking it aimlessly to the flanks that kills us all too often. With a more technical manager who would address that problem I think the likes of Cleverley or Westwood would improve no end. Fuck, even Pulis would figure it out.
Infuriating, isn't it? We just have no grasp of the basic understanding that a forward is as much a part of the team ethic as anyone else. Drop into space, receive, give it, turn, MOVE, your side now has possession ten yards further up the pitch. It's so simple that I'm confident even the current incumbents of our jerseys could manage it. The way it is at the moment, even when we do (briefly) keep the ball, we're effectively playing with just eight or nine men. It's little wonder when it then, almost invariably, goes tits-up, and we relinquish possession whilst still in our own fkn half.
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Baker is starting to look like some sort of member of a U-boat crew with that beard.
*insert predictable 'we are going down like one' style joke here*
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I'm confident that with the right coaching we could become a possession based team but Lambert keeps coming out with this line about possession not mattering. Whilst games can be won with the minority of possession, having that as your ruling tactic is crazy.
As is expecting people to continue to part with their hard-earned to come and watch you when that's what's on offer.
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Baker is starting to look like some sort of member of a U-boat crew with that beard.
*insert predictable 'we are going down like one' style joke here*
(http://www.dasboot-watches.com/images/photos/800x0:Das_Boot_11.jpg)
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The thing is and we saw it fleetingly at the weekend, we can knock it about and string a few passes together. I genuinely we have players that can do that and actually want to. It's the complete lack of movement in the final third that leads to us just whacking it aimlessly to the flanks that kills us all too often. With a more technical manager who would address that problem I think the likes of Cleverley or Westwood would improve no end. Fuck, even Pulis would figure it out.
Infuriating, isn't it? We just have no grasp of the basic understanding that a forward is as much a part of the team ethic as anyone else. Drop into space, receive, give it, turn, MOVE, your side now has possession ten yards further up the pitch. It's so simple that I'm confident even the current incumbents of our jerseys could manage it. The way it is at the moment, even when we do (briefly) keep the ball, we're effectively playing with just eight or nine men. It's little wonder when it then, almost invariably, goes tits-up, and we relinquish possession whilst still in our own fkn half.
Remember back to that first season under Lambert?
We started off trying to knock the ball around, this was the reason Bent (apparently) didn't fit in. He wasn't a modern day striker who helps with ball retention. So what the hell happened?
Last season I put it down to too many players picked from lower leagues just simply not good enough. Confidence was a major issue along with major injuries.
This season we look stronger than ever (under Lambert), on paper anyway, however while we have a ice rink as our training ground the injury crisis is still there, but saying that the main core of players are better than the last two seasons, so why are we so useless with keeping the damn ball and creating anything that resembles an effort on target?
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Oh that the training ground was just an ice rink. It is also a refuge for psychopathic bone crunchers, sociopathic relatives of the manager and a germ warfare site stocked with virulent virus cultures.
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The thing is and we saw it fleetingly at the weekend, we can knock it about and string a few passes together. I genuinely we have players that can do that and actually want to. It's the complete lack of movement in the final third that leads to us just whacking it aimlessly to the flanks that kills us all too often. With a more technical manager who would address that problem I think the likes of Cleverley or Westwood would improve no end. Fuck, even Pulis would figure it out.
Infuriating, isn't it? We just have no grasp of the basic understanding that a forward is as much a part of the team ethic as anyone else. Drop into space, receive, give it, turn, MOVE, your side now has possession ten yards further up the pitch. It's so simple that I'm confident even the current incumbents of our jerseys could manage it. The way it is at the moment, even when we do (briefly) keep the ball, we're effectively playing with just eight or nine men. It's little wonder when it then, almost invariably, goes tits-up, and we relinquish possession whilst still in our own fkn half.
Remember back to that first season under Lambert?
We started off trying to knock the ball around, this was the reason Bent (apparently) didn't fit in. He wasn't a modern day striker who helps with ball retention. So what the hell happened?
Last season I put it down to too many players picked from lower leagues just simply not good enough. Confidence was a major issue along with major injuries.
This season we look stronger than ever (under Lambert), on paper anyway, however while we have a ice rink as our training ground the injury crisis is still there, but saying that the main core of players are better than the last two seasons, so why are we so useless with keeping the damn ball and creating anything that resembles an effort on target?
Tempo. When we pass the ball from the defence into midfield you see a lot of good passing and movement and done with a good tempo. Then, as has been mentioned the lack of movement up front means that we then have to go backwards and the tempo drops. The lack of a technically proficient forward and movement up front means that we lose the ball all to frequently.
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It isn't just Benteke's goals that make him so important to the team but his ability to keep and rotate the ball as well.
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The thing is and we saw it fleetingly at the weekend, we can knock it about and string a few passes together. I genuinely we have players that can do that and actually want to. It's the complete lack of movement in the final third that leads to us just whacking it aimlessly to the flanks that kills us all too often. With a more technical manager who would address that problem I think the likes of Cleverley or Westwood would improve no end. Fuck, even Pulis would figure it out.
Infuriating, isn't it? We just have no grasp of the basic understanding that a forward is as much a part of the team ethic as anyone else. Drop into space, receive, give it, turn, MOVE, your side now has possession ten yards further up the pitch. It's so simple that I'm confident even the current incumbents of our jerseys could manage it. The way it is at the moment, even when we do (briefly) keep the ball, we're effectively playing with just eight or nine men. It's little wonder when it then, almost invariably, goes tits-up, and we relinquish possession whilst still in our own fkn half.
Remember back to that first season under Lambert?
We started off trying to knock the ball around, this was the reason Bent (apparently) didn't fit in. He wasn't a modern day striker who helps with ball retention. So what the hell happened?
Last season I put it down to too many players picked from lower leagues just simply not good enough. Confidence was a major issue along with major injuries.
This season we look stronger than ever (under Lambert), on paper anyway, however while we have a ice rink as our training ground the injury crisis is still there, but saying that the main core of players are better than the last two seasons, so why are we so useless with keeping the damn ball and creating anything that resembles an effort on target?
Tempo. When we pass the ball from the defence into midfield you see a lot of good passing and movement and done with a good tempo. Then, as has been mentioned the lack of movement up front means that we then have to go backwards and the tempo drops. The lack of a technically proficient forward and movement up front means that we lose the ball all to frequently.
We've been lacking that player who can find space and link things up in the final third. I honestly think that a player capable of doing that would make a massive difference to us. I still think that some of our defensive players (Hutton, Baker and Cissokho in particular) are very suspect in possession, which doesn't help.
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This is from a few days ago in the Mail. More great news on the injury front.
Just when will Aston Villa’s injury list relent?
Today we can reveal the news that Nathan Baker will be out for at least two months with a knee injury.
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With five centre halves this year I thought we stood a chance of managing the odd amounts of injuries we get in that position but it's going to be tight again.
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Baker out for the season
Manager Tim Sherwood admitted Baker's injury is too severe for him to play any further part during the run-in.
:'( :'(
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Just said on the pst match thread, where the fuck is Senderos? Baker going off injured again is a massive shame for him, and he is now in fairness a decent premier league centre half when fit, but we are not reliant on Vlaar staying fit for 6 more games, and 7 more weeks this season. More chance of Bill Gates buying us this summer.
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He looked brilliant today. Gutted for him.
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Hopefully playing just one game a week will help us now but yeah Vlaar getting injured before a final would be a disaster for us as he's shown he's capable of great performances in big games for club and country.
Senderos is actually suppose to be training now so he needs to be put back on the bench.
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Shame for the lad. He's a good player but I think he's just had too many injury problems at a young age to succeed at the very top. He must have some serious underlying issues to keep getting injured as often and as seriously as he does.
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Must admit when I first saw it I just amused he'd clashed heads and had gone off with concussion as has happened a few times in his career.
What has he actually done?
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Hopefully playing just one game a week will help us now but yeah Vlaar getting injured before a final would be a disaster for us as he's shown he's capable of great performances in big games for club and country.
Senderos is actually suppose to be training now so he needs to be put back on the bench.
I agree Soccer, I think Vlaar has shown he is a genuinely big game player. But he is so injury prone we are on a wing and a prayer now, unless Clark is not as bad as first thought.
Baker re-injured the knee he was out with before.
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Wonder whether he is just too careless or brave and gets injured challenging for balls he shouldnt. Its a balance. Never known anyone get injured so much
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Think he will need to learn how to avoid injuries and hiring coach like Allan Evans might help to reduce number of injuries in central defenders department. I mean the like of Paul McGrath and Gareth Southgate, Ugo Ehiogu and Olof Mellberg doesn't get many injuries as a Villa Player.
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Senderos must be back at some point??!
We could see Sanchez back there at this rate
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Sanchez looked real dodgy back there, we really need Senderos back but he too has no return date.
Hutton at CB would be an option though.
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There's also Donacien who apart from Senderos is the only other centre half I can think of off the top of my head.
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There's also Donacien who apart from Senderos is the only other centre half I can think of off the top of my head.
Isn't he out on loan at Tranmere?
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I'm beginning to think that Nathan Baker is Legion's long lost son.
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There's also Donacien who apart from Senderos is the only other centre half I can think of off the top of my head.
Isn't he out on loan at Tranmere?
I'm not sure to be honest. He could well be on loan somewhere.
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Donacien is still at Tranmere, and I don't think we can recall him until they have finished their season.
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Wonder whether he is just too careless or brave and gets injured challenging for balls he shouldnt. Its a balance. Never known anyone get injured so much
it looked as if he just landed awkwardly.
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Any thought of calling up Toner? He's captaining the 21's, so he could be worth a go.
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I'm beginning to think that Nathan Baker is Legion's long lost son.
It's all in the surname.
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I think we should be allowed to use Baker like a kicker in American Football. Just bring him on to defend set-peices and then wheel him off and wrap him in bubble-wrap during open play.
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can't decide if there's a PL player there or not, an enigma wrapped in a very big beard.
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Donacien is still at Tranmere, and I don't think we can recall him until they have finished their season.
Their season finishes soon - but I think he'd be cup tied if we were short for the final.
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Any thought of calling up Toner? He's captaining the 21's, so he could be worth a go.
I suspect that Lowton would be used before bringing in anyone from the U21s
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There was a suggestion during the Central News interview with Dave W and Peter Warrilow from the suppirters trust that Senderos is playing for the Under 21s tonight.
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Yeah both Senderos and Cissokho are playing tonight for u21 but no Kozak ,no idea why he is not playing
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Yeah both Senderos and Cissokho are playing tonight for u21 but no Kozak ,no idea why he is not playing
Good that Senderos is playing....we only have 2 fit centre-backs now - that's if Vlaar stays fit, which can't be guaranteed. Think I prefer Cissokho to Richardson at LB for the final.
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Well as we now know Ron Vlaar is not made of concrete, and Baker is even more delicate
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Good news about Senderos anyway.
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Good news about Senderos anyway.
Him and Vlaar formed a good partnership in the brief time they played together at the start of the season.
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Maybe U21 have a limit of over 21s players which mean no room for Kozak. Just a guess.
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Maybe U21 have a limit of over 21s players which mean no room for Kozak. Just a guess.
I'm pretty sure you're right. The added bonus of having Senderos available would be that he'd be desperate to do well against Arsenal.
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I think they're allowed 3 over the age of 21 aren't they?
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Official Villa Facebook page reporting he's signed a new 4 year contract
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New contract. I didn't see that one coming
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4901495,00.html
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Blimey I didn't see this one coming.
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Good stuff. Get Clark signed up next please!
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Wow. He's 24, at what age do we say he isn't good enough and let him go? Really strange decision, this.
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Now, if we could just find someone to mill the edges off the fifty-pence piece that is his head.
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Thought we would see the back of him this summer. Can't say I'm a fan of his.
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"It's my home, it's my club".
I swear I've heard that somewhere before....
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"It's my home, it's my club".
I swear I've heard that somewhere before....
What's his release/buy out figure ?
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Thought we would see the back of him this summer. Can't say I'm a fan of his.
Season before last, yes, he was a liability. I can't remember him doing a lot wrong last year, and seem to recall some very good performances from him. My biggest concern is his injury record.
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Surprised at that
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He's made of glass, I was hoping for an upgrade
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Happy with that, he has progressed as a player I just wish he could stay injury free for a while.
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Gobsmacked by this one.
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More than happy to see him sign a new deal. Go back a few months and we were all gutted he got injured as he was really showing signs of developing into a bloody good defender. Both he and Clark took massive steps forward last season and watching Baker in the Swindon friendly, he looked back to his best, certainly the best player on the pitch.
He's still young and has plenty of potential to develop further.
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I like him, I think he improved a lot last season, he does need to stay fit this season.
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Excellent, what a great day.
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I like him, not sure he's good enough but glad to see him get the opportunity to show us one way or t'other.
As contradictory as it sounds Id now ship him out on loan to a top Championship side till Xmas.
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Quite pleased by that. He had a decent patch last season and if he can keep free of minor knocks he will be a useful squad player.
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I like him, not sure he's good enough but glad to see him get the opportunity to show us one way or t'other.
As contradictory as it sounds Id now ship him out on loan to a top Championship side till Xmas.
I think he is good enough, or at least is getting there, but his injury record is dreadful, and players like that rarely have an injury-free season. Still, on a day of positive news, I'm going to treat like as another good news piece.
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Very pleased. He has been hampered by injury but I have always thought there is a terrific defender there.
Great in the air, loves a tackle and reads the game well, always on the cover for his fellow central defender.
He was crucified for diving in at Wolves the other night after he had been on the field for about 5 minutes.
His best years are in front of him and he is a Villa boy. Central defenders are at their peak a bit later and hopefully the experience that Baker and Clark have gained playing in the first team will benefit us in the next few seasons.
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Like Nathan. Good honest player who will improve. It will be nice to see him on the bench regularly.
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Well can not see another centre half coming in now this transfer window
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I'm glad. Given how we're splashing the cash just now, Sherwood must value him. Hopefully his rate of improvement over the last two years will continue. Still young, still got plenty of time, let's see where the lad can get to.
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Were we really in for Lescott if we had offered Baker a new contract? Richards and Clark seem to be the first choice pairing so the Baker spot seemed the natural change of left sided centre back.
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Deserved a new deal if only for his magnificent beard.
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Happy with that.
As long as he doesnt play alongside Clark we will be fine
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Fair play Nathan. Do us proud.
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He's a likeable lad, if you could throw a curling stone high enough he wouldn't think twice about heading it clear. But I'm a bit surprised given his injury record.
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He had a spell last season where he started to look the business. Then he got injured. Inevitably. He needs games to develop and mature. His bravery is his strength and weakness so just hope he can steer clear so he can come in when needed and improve. Also having a naturally left sided player to Clark is good to have.
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I like him but only when not paired with Clark
He's made of paper though, has he ever completed 90 minutes
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Really pleased with this and I think it's thoroughly deserved . The stick he got after the wolves game was way OTT . I think he can go from strength to strength and force his way into the starting XI
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A good squad player who can be trusted to come in and do a good job. I would agree however that a Baker Clark combo is not ideal.
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You've got your 4 year contract...now stop fuckin about, get better and stop making stupid mistakes...oh yeah, and stop getting injured all the frickin time.
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He's not the best, but he's a trier and he won me over last season. As a squad player to fill in, he's more than adequate. I'm pleased for him he got a new contract.
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I like him. And not many clubs outside the obvious have a better 3rd/4th choice centre half. Especially one that cost nowt.
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I can't be hypocritical, I have slated Baker for his positioning and diving in and wouldn't have been too upset had we sold him to Burnley, with a sell on clause. However, there is a player in there somewhere and if he can now push on, then we might have found the commanding centre back we really need. He is a big bloke, brave, capable. But, he now needs to push on and leave the silly mistakes behind him. Given that we are a feeder club to England and that we don't seem too blessed in the central defence area, he has a carrot. I hope he's good enough one day to win that carrot.
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I'm pleased with this. A good squad player who can come in and do a job when required. We need squad players to back up our first choices and Baker will serve us well.
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A good squad player who can be trusted to come in and do a good job. I would agree however that a Baker Clark combo is not ideal.
Happy birthday mon ami.
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Quite surprised but he's a good squad option.
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If this were the late 80s/90s and if Baker were playing for Arsenal he'd be called up for England and be touted as a typical tough tackling defender and a leader of men.
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He's actually pretty good most. Of the time but sadly, always seems to have one complete lapse of concentration in a game.
Where we are in the lower left Holte, you often see him get a look on his face when chasing back down that wing where you know he has absolutely committed to getting there first, and when I see that look, I have complete confidence that he will. I've seen him make quite a few tackles similar to the one Clark was lauded for last season. When he decides the ball is his, it is his. I love that!
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Exactly amfy. Clark makes one of those tackles (two ripsnorters against Leicester) and its proof of his ever improving defensive ability. Baker does it more often and to his detractors its evidence of his lack of positional awareness, lack of ability leading to a last ditch tackle, or just him being reckless.
Clearly I'm a fan but I also do get nervous when the ball's played to him particularly when he's under pressure.
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He's actually pretty good most. Of the time but sadly, always seems to have one complete lapse of concentration in a game.
Where we are in the lower left Holte, you often see him get a look on his face when chasing back down that wing where you know he has absolutely committed to getting there first, and when I see that look, I have complete confidence that he will. I've seen him make quite a few tackles similar to the one Clark was lauded for last season. When he decides the ball is his, it is his. I love that!
For me that is part of the problem. Competent centre backs only occasionally have to make those type of challenge, due to their positional play and reading of the game. Nathan is reactive rather than proactive.
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He's actually pretty good most. Of the time but sadly, always seems to have one complete lapse of concentration in a game.
Where we are in the lower left Holte, you often see him get a look on his face when chasing back down that wing where you know he has absolutely committed to getting there first, and when I see that look, I have complete confidence that he will. I've seen him make quite a few tackles similar to the one Clark was lauded for last season. When he decides the ball is his, it is his. I love that!
For me that is part of the problem. Competent centre backs only occasionally have to make those type of challenge, due to their positional play and reading of the game. Nathan is reactive rather than proactive.
Disagree. Paul McGrath only had to read the game in his 'area'. nathan baker has had a poor left-back, a shaky centre-half next to him, a quiet centre-half, and a pourous midfield in front of him in a losing team throughout his Villa career. He may be likke a rabbit caught in the headlights at times but that's because he's learnt through bad Villa habits to become trigger happy when deciding whether to go or stay.
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He's actually pretty good most. Of the time but sadly, always seems to have one complete lapse of concentration in a game.
Where we are in the lower left Holte, you often see him get a look on his face when chasing back down that wing where you know he has absolutely committed to getting there first, and when I see that look, I have complete confidence that he will. I've seen him make quite a few tackles similar to the one Clark was lauded for last season. When he decides the ball is his, it is his. I love that!
For me that is part of the problem. Competent centre backs only occasionally have to make those type of challenge, due to their positional play and reading of the game. Nathan is reactive rather than proactive.
Disagree. Paul McGrath only had to read the game in his 'area'. nathan baker has had a poor left-back, a shaky centre-half next to him, a quiet centre-half, and a pourous midfield in front of him in a losing team throughout his Villa career. He may be likke a rabbit caught in the headlights at times but that's because he's learnt through bad Villa habits to become trigger happy when deciding whether to go or stay.
He's played in the same team as Vlaar, Clark and Senderos and they don't spend as much time on their arse as he does.
He has improved and I don't mind him as a backup but if we are in the position where he has to play regularly then we'll be in for another season of struggle.
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He's actually pretty good most. Of the time but sadly, always seems to have one complete lapse of concentration in a game.
Where we are in the lower left Holte, you often see him get a look on his face when chasing back down that wing where you know he has absolutely committed to getting there first, and when I see that look, I have complete confidence that he will. I've seen him make quite a few tackles similar to the one Clark was lauded for last season. When he decides the ball is his, it is his. I love that!
For me that is part of the problem. Competent centre backs only occasionally have to make those type of challenge, due to their positional play and reading of the game. Nathan is reactive rather than proactive.
Disagree. Paul McGrath only had to read the game in his 'area'. nathan baker has had a poor left-back, a shaky centre-half next to him, a quiet centre-half, and a pourous midfield in front of him in a losing team throughout his Villa career. He may be likke a rabbit caught in the headlights at times but that's because he's learnt through bad Villa habits to become trigger happy when deciding whether to go or stay.
He's played in the same team as Vlaar, Clark and Senderos and they don't spend as much time on their arse as he does.
He has improved and I don't mind him as a backup but if we are in the position where he has to play regularly then we'll be in for another season of struggle.
Vlaar and Senderos are experienced. Got through playing with players they can learn from usually in successful teams. Until last season not many wanted to keep Clark least of all as a centre-half.
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I hope it was a sensible deal. He is a pretty poor defender, but brave and committed. You need a little more than those two attributes to be player at the top level.
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I hope it was a sensible deal. He is a pretty poor defender, but brave and committed. You need a little more than those two attributes to be player at the top level.
One thing he isn't is a poor defender.
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He positioning is poor, as is his decision making, let alone his distribution. He was fourth choice in a team that finished 17th. None of these things would indicate he is anything other than a poor defender. He's brave and you can't fault his effort.
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Baker was probably our best defender for a stretch of last season. Put some quality around him and I think we will see how good he is .
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Injuries permitting i bet he doesn't start more than 5 games, probably early round cup games.
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Injuries permitting i bet he doesn't start more than 5 games, probably early round cup games.
That's kinda the role of the reserve centre back though isn't it?
Depending on the cash we're paying him I am happy with this deal. There's little point having a youth system if you're not going to put some faith in it and utilise the players it produces. I'd prefer this than having to spend 4m and 30k a week on a journeyman footballer who cares little for the club.
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Baker is terrible. I think its been so long since we last had a really good one (Laursen), that a lot of people have forgot what a proper one looks like. We used to have loads if them in the nineties, its remarkable how nearly every one we had in the team back then looked solid, now the opposite it true. I have got high hopes for Richards though, he should break the recent trend.
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Fearless and always gives 100% but no more than a back up for me.
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I've been v critical of Baker in the past (positioning and distribution) and, although he looked a lot better last season in parts, I'm slightly surprised they have not cashed in on him. May be the real point is that they have not been able to find a suitable alternative.
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Being a reasonable central defender is not just about last ditch tackling. I look at Baker's positioning and movement when the opposition breaks down one of our attacks. Whether high up the pitch or in midfield, he looks to be out of position and only ambles back when the opposition go wide with the ball. This can be worked on by the coaches and the players next to him, as long as he listens and learns.
An extension to his contract is only really treading water for us. It's rumoured that Burnley have offered £2m for him and if he improves a little, this could mean £4m next year if we wanted to sell him. Unless Sherwood brings somebody else in, we only have Clark as a left side central defender and therefore need to keep him. If somebody else comes in, I would be tempted to loan him out to a Championship club and get them to pay half his wages. then review the position next summer.
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Baker hasn't been out on loan since 2011 which probably shows how short Villa have been at centre half in recent seasons
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My unfounded theory is that we went for Lescott as a back up left sided CB (mail said we had a bid rejected) and when that didn't work decided to just hold on to Baker.
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My unfounded theory is that we went for Lescott as a back up left sided CB (mail said we had a bid rejected) and when that didn't work decided to just hold on to Baker.
You don't just decide to offer a contract and then it's magically done. A 4-year deal for a Premier League player is a multi-million pound commitment. There will have been meetings and negotiations between the club and his agent so it's realistic to say that this announcement was a few weeks in the making. My reaction is to question the validity of the story linking us to Lescott.
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My unfounded theory is that we went for Lescott as a back up left sided CB (mail said we had a bid rejected) and when that didn't work decided to just hold on to Baker.
You don't just decide to offer a contract and then it's magically done. A 4-year deal for a Premier League player is a multi-million pound commitment. There will have been meetings and negotiations between the club and his agent so it's realistic to say that this announcement was a few weeks in the making. My reaction is to question the validity of the story linking us to Lescott.
I don't think he uses an agent
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My unfounded theory is that we went for Lescott as a back up left sided CB (mail said we had a bid rejected) and when that didn't work decided to just hold on to Baker.
You don't just decide to offer a contract and then it's magically done. A 4-year deal for a Premier League player is a multi-million pound commitment. There will have been meetings and negotiations between the club and his agent so it's realistic to say that this announcement was a few weeks in the making. My reaction is to question the validity of the story linking us to Lescott.
I don't think he uses an agent
I would still be surprised if it was a case of the club saying 'sign here' and then him just signing.
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I think he could still be sent out on loan. I don't imagine the new contract just happened either and it is part of a long term approach, where we might still bring in an experienced defender but give Baker a bit of time to get proper playing time in the Championship. It's exactly the approach we should be taking for some of young players who aren't quite ready. He's a decent player who will get better the more he plays and coached through his mistakes.
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
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I imagine he's part of the squad but if he were to be sent out on loan, you would think it would be to a PL side.
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
Yes, at that age you should only sending out players on loan to put them in the shop window to get rid or get them off the wage bill, not to develop them. Looks like Sherwood has a role for him. For some reason I can't quite fathom I actually like Baker, but I just he wish he would learn to stay on his feet and avoid this tendency to dive in, even when it's not for a last ditch block. It's probably why he gets injured so much.
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The way it would make sense to me would be if we are trying to get an older, more experienced guy in (like Lescott) for a year or two, and we extend Bakers contract and then loan him to someone else to get a bit more of an education. If he comes back the better for it, he can take the Lescott or whoever's place in the squad. If not we sell him on. I watched the Sherwood interview about it on AVTV and he said something about not wanting to get rid of him permanently, and put it in a way that made me think he may loan him out instead.
Personally though i agree with Paulie that at 24 he may not get a great deal better now. Tim obviously thinks there still may be a chance of him coming good, but of course may not have seen too much of him before he took over as manager. Whatever happens i just hope he's not required to play for us much next season as we will definately ship more goals if so.
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
He proved his worth last season despite having shite full backs and a paper mâché midfield in front of him
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
He is, but he's never really had a sustained run of games. I think with his age a good solid season on loan might do him some good.
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
He proved his worth last season despite having shite full backs and a paper mâché midfield in front of him
I agree. Thought he was okay, and obviously cares about the club. Maybe all this speculation and sweating that new contract up until yesterday will kick him into another gear.
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
He is, but he's never really had a sustained run of games. I think with his age a good solid season on loan might do him some good.
I agree. He needs a season of playing week in week out to (i) see if he can overcome his injury problems (ii) build his confidence (iii) improve his concentration levels and (iv) improve his positional play.
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He's 24 now. If he's not ready now, he probably never will be.
He is, but he's never really had a sustained run of games. I think with his age a good solid season on loan might do him some good.
I agree. He needs a season of playing week in week out to (i) see if he can overcome his injury problems (ii) build his confidence (iii) improve his concentration levels and (iv) improve his positional play.
I can genuinely see why some people like Baker, but you've just listed why it's always going to be an uphill battle for him at this level.
He does have a tendency to switch off / lose concentration, which is why he seems to gets caught out of position more often.
He knows that this is a problem (lacking confidence) so launches into tackles to make up for it, which is where he appears to pick up a fair proportion of his injuries.
Unless he can sort out the concentration thing he'll never get any better than he is now.
I can't see another PL club taking him on loan, and I don't know how keen he'd be to go on loan in the championship at his age.
I'd also question how much benefit he'd get playing in a division that would play more to his existing strengths. As we saw at Anfield last season, let him line up between the 6 yard box and penalty box while you swing crosses in all day, and he'll quite happily headed them away all day.
He needs to be playing at this level to get better. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think he will. He'll be great against a Pulis type of team mind you.
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Something we've been very poor at in recent time is managing our assets. Players shouldn't go into the last year of their contracts and walk away for free - if nothing else we've protected an investment with Baker.
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Kendrick reporting that Ciaran Clark will be getting a new deal very soon.
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Baker is shit and needs to leave. He makes too many mistakes. Bench warmer at best.
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Baker is shit and needs to leave. He makes too many mistakes. Bench warmer at best.
No shitter than vlaar, Clark, Okore . He's not had a fair run yet with a consistent partner week in week out and solid full backs and dcm ahead of him.
Worth keeping and investing in IMHO .
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Baker is shit and needs to leave. He makes too many mistakes. Bench warmer at best.
No shitter than vlaar, Clark, Okore . He's not had a fair run yet with a consistent partner week in week out and solid full backs and dcm ahead of him.
Worth keeping and investing in IMHO .
Disagree with both of you, which feels really strange. Bench warmer at best is probably not far off the truth, which is ok as he's the 4th choice centre back at the club.
Clark is a far better player the main difference being that Clark had a clear weakness when he came in (he got pushed around far too easily) and he's worked on it and improved. He still makes some naive mistakes but they're becoming rarer. For Baker you can't say the same, his concentration and basic skills (passing) aren't good enough to be a starter in the PL and he's not really improved in either area since he came into the team.
As for Okore he has flaws to his game but we've only seen him for 1 season and for a decent part of that he was half of the best pairing we saw all season. He needs to work on those areas where he was exposed and then when he comes in again we'll see if there's noticeable improvement. If there are then he'll be firmly cemented as 3rd choice back there.
Finally Vlaar was always difficult to judge because you never knew just how fit he was, at his best he was a step above he rest of our defenders but those games were few and far between because they normally came in the few weeks before another injury. His shoddy performances were often either the first one or two back from an injury or the last one before he had a few weeks out.
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I think Timmah realises we need a Baker in the bunker for when times get tough, and you need to lay down some markers about acceptable behaviour in the box, and the costs of transgression of those markers. Martin Laursen did it well in addition to his other qualities, but the job has to be done. I reckon Baker will get 3 or 4 goals from set pieces as well.
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I think Timmah realises we need a Baker in the bunker for when times get tough, and you need to lay down some markers about acceptable behaviour in the box, and the costs of transgression of those markers. Martin Laursen did it well in addition to his other qualities, but the job has to be done. I reckon Baker will get 3 or 4 goals from set pieces as well.
Unfortunately 2 If them will probably be at the wrong end #half joking#
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Just read an interesting interview where Sherwood has challenged Baker to show that he can play 35/36 games a season and that he doesn't want him to leave permanently. Sounds like he wants him out on loan and playing regularly for a season.
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Just read an interesting interview where Sherwood has challenged Baker to show that he can play 35/36 games a season and that he doesn't want him to leave permanently. Sounds like he wants him out on loan and playing regularly for a season.
That would be ideal. Let him learn (make mistakes) at another club's expense. In reality he only needs to improve a small amount and he'd be more than good enough for us in our current position.
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Just read an interesting interview where Sherwood has challenged Baker to show that he can play 35/36 games a season and that he doesn't want him to leave permanently. Sounds like he wants him out on loan and playing regularly for a season.
That would be ideal. Let him learn (make mistakes) at another club's expense. In reality he only needs to improve a small amount and he'd be more than good enough for us in our current position.
If he only improves to the point where he's good enough for our current position, then hopefully he'll still not be good enough, as we'll have moved on.
Ideally he'll have improved at least to a point where he's acceptable as solid back up for a mid table side.
Whether he can or not, I'm not sure.
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Keeping Nathan Baker is shrewd business, something unheard of at VP almost in living memory (Ellis was not shrewd, he was grasping). He is an improving player, he is a young player, he cost us nothing, his new wages are probably pretty low. Let him mature and learn, quite possibly on loan, and if he learns enough and quickly enough bring him back into our team or if not with still three years on his contract sell him to one of the self styled hard cases of the league like Millwall, Stoke or Sheffield United where his hardness would have great appeal. Put another way we handle him in exactly the opposite way we handled Gary Cahill, and no, I am not saying he is another Gary Cahill, I am saying that there is a good few quid locked away in the young lad, don't toss it away please.
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Keeping Nathan Baker is shrewd business, something unheard of at VP almost in living memory (Ellis was not shrewd, he was grasping). He is an improving player, he is a young player, he cost us nothing, his new wages are probably pretty low. Let him mature and learn, quite possibly on loan, and if he learns enough and quickly enough bring him back into our team or if not with still three years on his contract sell him to one of the self styled hard cases of the league like Millwall, Stoke or Sheffield United where his hardness would have great appeal. Put another way we handle him in exactly the opposite way we handled Gary Cahill, and no, I am not saying he is another Gary Cahill, I am saying that there is a good few quid locked away in the young lad, don't toss it away please.
Young lad Brian? He's 24 I think.Almost half way through his career but just about worth keeping I suppose.
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Everybody is a lad to me Ron. What I should have said that he is young for a central defender whose football trade take a lot of learning.
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Everybody is a lad to me Ron. What I should have said that he is young for a central defender whose football trade take a lot of learning.
Its time to give that young McGrath fella a chance
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You can let him leave for free, or give him another chance to fulfil the potential he was showing last season, and if he doesn't, sell him for 3-5M. No brainer.
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I'm hoping we've given him a new contract so we can get a decent fee for him in the near future. I'd be disappointed if he's a first choice next season, I just don't rate the player. He seems to have a mistake just around the corner. I don't trust him.
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I'm hoping we've given him a new contract so we can get a decent fee for him in the near future. I'd be disappointed if he's a first choice next season, I just don't rate the player. He seems to have a mistake just around the corner. I don't trust him.
I think there might be more than a grain of truth here. Didn't I see Burnley were interested at £2m?
If he could be less injury prone, last season (when he played), he had improved and there is still potential in him I believe.
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I'm hoping we've given him a new contract so we can get a decent fee for him in the near future. I'd be disappointed if he's a first choice next season, I just don't rate the player. He seems to have a mistake just around the corner. I don't trust him.
Beginning to think that might well be the case. Get him out on loan for a season and if he does well (even in the Championship), we'll probably be looking at double the fee we would have got this summer.
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Everybody is a lad to me Ron. What I should have said that he is young for a central defender whose football trade take a lot of learning.
Exactly right, 24-27 is about the time that central defenders start to show their real quality and they peak around 30 generally, unlike strikers who generally peak earlier (with the flyers like Owen tending to peak around 23-24 and be washed up by 30).
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Just been mentioned on SSNHQ that Bristol City are hoping to take Nathan Baker on loan.
Didn't hear any other details such as the length of the loan etc
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Keeping Nathan Baker is shrewd business, something unheard of at VP almost in living memory (Ellis was not shrewd, he was grasping). He is an improving player, he is a young player, he cost us nothing, his new wages are probably pretty low. Let him mature and learn, quite possibly on loan, and if he learns enough and quickly enough bring him back into our team or if not with still three years on his contract sell him to one of the self styled hard cases of the league like Millwall, Stoke or Sheffield United where his hardness would have great appeal. Put another way we handle him in exactly the opposite way we handled Gary Cahill, and no, I am not saying he is another Gary Cahill, I am saying that there is a good few quid locked away in the young lad, don't toss it away please.
Young lad Brian? He's 24 I think.Almost half way through his career but just about worth keeping I suppose.
I agree with this. And Cahill is a good example as - although I am also not comparing the relative quality of the two players - it's worth remembering that he was roughly Baker's age when he went to Bolton (23 I believe). The fact that there wasn't universal outrage at this, given our other options at the time, reinforces the point that it's too early to make a call on a CB.
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I agree with this. And Cahill is a good example as - although I am also not comparing the relative quality of the two players - it's worth remembering that he was roughly Baker's age when he went to Bolton (23 I believe). The fact that there wasn't universal outrage at this, given our other options at the time, reinforces the point that it's too early to make a call on a CB.
Really?
I remember this place going into a state of near meltdown at the time. No, it won't have been universal, but then again nothing is. Even now, years later, Cahill's departure is a subject of some controversy.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
This.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
No he didn't, he wanted a fair crack of the whip under O'Neill, which he wasn't getting. All of the talk about wanting a guaranteed spot is bollocks.
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O'Neill preferred to put road blocks in front of him, like Knight and Davies.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
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MON has always liked big lads at the back and up front.
I disagreed with him moving on Cahill and then signing Zat Knight (to put it mildly) but he was, if anything, at least consistent with his previous preferences.
Cahill was also a "play it out of defence" type whereas MON preferred safety first, row Z types.
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For £3m quid or whatever it was, Knight was good value for money. Should never have been in the way of Cahill though in a million years.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
when you put it like that you realise what a complete buffoon the man was
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
Indeed. I know I've posted this before, but I still find it mind boggling.
2008-9: buys entire defence - Cuellar, Shorey, Young, Davies - total approx 28m
decides doesn't rate some of them, so ..
2009-10: buys entire new defence - Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Beye - total approx 20m
That's very nearly £50m on two entire defences in a little over 12 months.
Not to mention the fact that in 2007-8 he'd already spent £5m on another CB, Knight.
Absolutely insane scattergun, lazy transfer policy.
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And when you compare those two defences to the one that he inherited (Mellberg, Laursen, Cahill, Bouma) then, whilst acknowledging that 2 of the 3 were injury-prone- it really looks like money wasted.
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And 8 shit players to boot.
I might be exaggerating Paulie, plus my memory is not what it was, but I guess what I'm saying is the fact that there was even an argument for knight/Davies over Cahill, and the fact of him going to Bolton initially, rather than someone better (allowing the 'he's found his level' counter argument to be made) makes the point about the development of CBs.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
Indeed. I know I've posted this before, but I still find it mind boggling.
2008-9: buys entire defence - Cuellar, Shorey, Young, Davies - total approx 28m
decides doesn't rate some of them, so ..
2009-10: buys entire new defence - Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Beye - total approx 20m
That's very nearly £50m on two entire defences in a little over 12 months.
Not to mention the fact that in 2007-8 he'd already spent £5m on another CB, Knight.
Absolutely insane scattergun, lazy transfer policy.
Shorey, Young, Warnock all were in and around the England squad at the time as well. It wasn't just centre backs that O'Neill didn't fancy.
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
Indeed. I know I've posted this before, but I still find it mind boggling.
2008-9: buys entire defence - Cuellar, Shorey, Young, Davies - total approx 28m
decides doesn't rate some of them, so ..
2009-10: buys entire new defence - Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Beye - total approx 20m
That's very nearly £50m on two entire defences in a little over 12 months.
Not to mention the fact that in 2007-8 he'd already spent £5m on another CB, Knight.
Absolutely insane scattergun, lazy transfer policy.
Is it any wonder Lerner pulled up the drawbridge?
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And makes you realise what a good chance of top 4 we had with a better manager at the helm.
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Whilst frittering away £50m on average defenders MON was also busy hounding Gary Cahill out of the club .
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4972842,00.html
Confirmed loan deal season long
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
Indeed. I know I've posted this before, but I still find it mind boggling.
2008-9: buys entire defence - Cuellar, Shorey, Young, Davies - total approx 28m
decides doesn't rate some of them, so ..
2009-10: buys entire new defence - Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Beye - total approx 20m
That's very nearly £50m on two entire defences in a little over 12 months.
Not to mention the fact that in 2007-8 he'd already spent £5m on another CB, Knight.
Absolutely insane scattergun, lazy transfer policy.
Shorey, Young, Warnock all were in and around the England squad at the time as well. It wasn't just centre backs that O'Neill didn't fancy.
totally agree that that was MON gone mad. However, all the players were decent at the time and I seem to recall even Beye was rated by the Geordies
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I was gutted when Cahill left as were many on here. Can't say Baker leaving will bother me too much. He's nowhere near the class Cahill was when he departed.
I'll never forgive O'Neill for letting him go. Such a stupid thing to do.
My recollection was MON didn't have a lot of choice as Cahill wanted a first team place guarantee, which rightly or wrongly, MON wouldn't provide. He could have kept a unhappy player I guess, but decided not to.
Doesn't the first bit contradict the second? MON did have a choice and chose to spend a combined £13m on Zat Knight and Curtis Davies instead of play Cahill.
And pissed off Mellberg too. Imagine inheriting Cahill and Mellberg, and getting rid of both of them for Knight, Davies and Cuellar. Then having to replace them a year later due to the abject shitness of all of them.
Indeed. I know I've posted this before, but I still find it mind boggling.
2008-9: buys entire defence - Cuellar, Shorey, Young, Davies - total approx 28m
decides doesn't rate some of them, so ..
2009-10: buys entire new defence - Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Beye - total approx 20m
That's very nearly £50m on two entire defences in a little over 12 months.
Not to mention the fact that in 2007-8 he'd already spent £5m on another CB, Knight.
Absolutely insane scattergun, lazy transfer policy.
Shorey, Young, Warnock all were in and around the England squad at the time as well. It wasn't just centre backs that O'Neill didn't fancy.
totally agree that that was MON gone mad. However, all the players were decent at the time and I seem to recall even Beye was rated by the Geordies
Yes, which is what makes it so stupid. They might have been decent, but why buy all of them?
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4972842,00.html
Confirmed loan deal season long
''Continuing his football education'' makes it sound like he is part of the youth academy.
Never rated him. He was either a liability or injured. The Championship is probably the right level for him.
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His 5 year contract just means that we'll get a transfer fee above what he receives in wages if he proves himself out on loan. Won't be a large profit but an astute bit of business and I expect he'll be sold next summer to Bristol or another Championship club. I don't think he'll make it at PL level.
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Never really rated him, but good luck on loan.
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his best bit was the beard. Probably more suited to ZZ Top than football.
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he has had some really good games at villa, which is more than you can say for some others
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really? he was brave yes, but always too close to a liability wrapped inside a calamity
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Whilst frittering away £50m on average defenders MON was also busy hounding Gary Cahill out of the club .
that's not quite true is it. Cahill wanted to leave because he wasn't getting enough games - and he probably wasn't quite ready to be a first team fixture at the time. Should have forced him to stay another year and then he would have been ready
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I'm very pleased about this. I was developing a nervous twitch every time he had the ball.
Hopefully he does well there and they want him permanently come the end of the loan.
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Yep. If we can sell him for £3-5m next summer it will be a very good bit of business.
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I like Nathan and I'd still like to see him come good here. Hopefully this will help with that.
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I like him and think he has put in some solid performances for us. That said I can't disagree with Sherwood's decision, he does need something more. Hopefully this will make him better.
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This has got to be the best for the player and the club. Unless he is playing regularly he will not improve. I hope he takes it as a challenge, rather than as failure and Sherwood has explained this to him.
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Hope he comes back better and stays at villa. He's better than Clark IMHO .
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Hope he comes back better and stays at villa. He's better than Clark IMHO .
Yes, so do I.
And no he isn't. Clark will become one of our best defenders ever. He's almost there, give him another year and a decent centre half he can learn off (Lescott) and Clark wil be up there with the likes of Teale and Evans. But not McGrath, nobody will ever be that good.
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Hope he comes back better and stays at villa. He's better than Clark IMHO .
Yes, so do I.
And no he isn't. Clark will become one of our best defenders ever. He's almost there, give him another year and a decent centre half he can learn off (Lescott) and Clark wil be up there with the likes of Teale and Evans. But not McGrath, nobody will ever be that good.
I'm with you on this, Clark has made a few mistakes in the last 2 weeks so opinions on him are likely to be little bit down right now but the truth is that those mistakes are picked up because they're at odds with the rest of his performance. Take Sunderland, a rash challenge to get booked and then got caught a yard short of his man and over-committed to get back but other than that he dominated in the air, he cut out pretty much every through ball that went near him and he generally looked every bit a premier league defender. I find him incredibly frustrating right now because he's close to being a genuinely brilliant centre-half, if he can work with Lescott and tidy up the errors and he can get out of the McLeish and Lambert created habit of punting the ball long when there's other options available he can definitely make that step up and as I've said before 24-27 are the years where experience starts to combine with ability and you see central defenders start to really deliver on their potential so he's still smack in the middle of that.
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Smart business as with Bennett and I'm guessing Gardner too. They go out and get game time and either come back and improve the squad or we'll sell them on and ensure we get a decent fee by making sure they're under contract.
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Sorry but no , Clark makes basic errors that you won't coach out of him. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks .
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Often you don't see a central defender reach their potential until they're about 27. I do wish Clark could reduce the number of yellow cards he gets. He seems to get one every game but last season, when he was on 9 and at risk of missing the semi final, he put quite a run of games together without a card so he can do it.
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Sorry but no , Clark makes basic errors that you won't coach out of him. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks .
So coaching doesn't work then? Wonder why we bother having coaches if they can't actually teach the players anything.
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Of course it can work but only so far. For me Clark seems to have eradicated some errors in his game (dilly dallying on the ball in a danger zone) and replaced them with others - allowing players to cut in on him towards goal and needless hoofing of the ball .
He's a good player but I don't think he's a top end PL player .
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but we do have a really good coach now, I don't he has had one since Kev Mac
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Sorry but no , Clark makes basic errors that you won't coach out of him. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks .
So coaching doesn't work then? Wonder why we bother having coaches if they can't actually teach the players anything.
We didn't last season.
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Sorry but no , Clark makes basic errors that you won't coach out of him. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks .
As usual funny as fuck!
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Sorry but no , Clark makes basic errors that you won't coach out of him. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks .
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Clark is not exactly an "old dog" at his age, unlike Lescott who you are obviously a big fan of.
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Injured for Bristol tonight...the new Vlaar
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Injured for Bristol tonight...the new Vlaar
"Same as it ever was" more like.
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12 minutes into the game too!
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Reading the Other Games thread and here, I get the feeling some of you are pleased about it.
He's still a Villa player, he's not lied to us on the big screens at Villa Park and later in the media, he's not gone off to the highest bidder while in contract to us - so why are you pleased he's injured?
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Reading the Other Games thread and here, I get the feeling some of you are pleased about it.
He's still a Villa player, he's not lied to us on the big screens at Villa Park and later in the media, he's not gone off to the highest bidder while in contract to us - so why are you pleased he's injured?
Nobody is pleased, but the facts are he does get injured a lot for whatever reason.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/359ipvc.jpg)
15/16 |Unknown |Sept 15th | - | - |
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Nathan Baker is a good, brave lad. I like him regardless of his non stellar ability or his injury record.
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Reading the Other Games thread and here, I get the feeling some of you are pleased about it.
He's still a Villa player, he's not lied to us on the big screens at Villa Park and later in the media, he's not gone off to the highest bidder while in contract to us - so why are you pleased he's injured?
Nobody is pleased, but the facts are he does get injured a lot for whatever reason.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/359ipvc.jpg)
15/16 |Unknown |Sept 15th | - | - |
No need to show me that, my question is why are people appearing to be pleased about it.
I suggest you read the same threads as I have.
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Reading the Other Games thread and here, I get the feeling some of you are pleased about it.
He's still a Villa player, he's not lied to us on the big screens at Villa Park and later in the media, he's not gone off to the highest bidder while in contract to us - so why are you pleased he's injured?
I think it's more sad resignation rather than pleased, hence the same as it ever was comment from me. He's horrendously prone to injury which is why it's not a surprise to anyone that he's injured again.
Then you start looking at why he gets injured and then you're into a debate as to whether he's good enough. At the moment for me on both counts, injury and ability the answer is no
To my mind a large chunk of his injury record is because he makes a lot of brave challenges, which on the one hand you can't fault his commitment and endeavour.
However if you think that one of the reasons behind the number of challenges of that type he makes is that he doesn't read the game very well and makes those challenges either with his body in an awkward position or playing catch up because he was out of position it starts to look like a problem that won't be cured on the physio's table but with the coaches, if he's got within him to learn.
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He's a grafter and doesn't deserve this misfortune.
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No one really deserves the misfortune with injuries. With Baker it's as VID says, he's often found out of position and has to make those last ditch/body on the line tackles that result in these injuries. If again, as VID says, the coaches are not getting through to him then those injuries have to go down as self-inflicted IMO.
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Our Nathan went off injured tonight - 25 minutes.
Poor lad.
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Ah shit. Can you imagine how frustrating that must be.
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Poor lad. He's gonna have to find something else to do in life.
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Baker...injured? Didn't see that coming. It's not like there's a long-standing record of him getting injured.
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Out of our current squad, my first choice pairing would be Clark and Okore
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Clark and Okore in CB. Richards as RB and Amavi as LB. Job's a good 'un.
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The problem with Clark and Okore together is that neither of them seem to have the ability to organise, which is a crucial role for one of the centre-backs. I know they had a few decentish games together last season, but they were also the centre-back pairing that looked completely out of its depth away at Arsenal and Hull.
I think I'd be tempted to give the back 3 a go again tomorrow night, but trying Ilori as a sweeper behind Clark and Richards.
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Noooooooooooooo! I hate back threes!
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Clark and Okore in CB. Richards as RB and Amavi as LB. Job's a good 'un.
This. Nothing more to see here...
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I thought Clark looked like the only defender capable of organising a defence last season, the issue came when Vlaar turned up alongside him and would just do his own thing instead.
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Clark and Okore in CB. Richards as RB and Amavi as LB. Job's a good 'un.
This. Nothing more to see here...
Spot on. Okore and Clarke are left and right footed and played well together. Richards would be better out right and Amavi has potential and probably would not of got knackered like Richardson on Saturday. Actually barring Richards, our back four on Saturday looked like the over 35s league.
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Which is some achievement as the other 3 are 30, 31 and 33. I actually have no problem with Hutton at RB.
As for Baker, I like him but he does seem to be one of those players that will always be cursed with injury.
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I think I'd be tempted to give the back 3 a go again tomorrow night, but trying Ilori as a sweeper behind Clark and Richards.
No offence Russell, but that is a really bad idea.
It's not an accident that nobody has really used a sweeper for around 25 years - it would be defensive suicide. Three at the back would be bad enough when playing against a 4-3-3 like Southampton tend to use, but a sweeper as well? It would make last years 6-1 look like a close match.
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I think I'd be tempted to give the back 3 a go again tomorrow night, but trying Ilori as a sweeper behind Clark and Richards.
No offence Russell, but that is a really bad idea.
It's not an accident that nobody has really used a sweeper for around 25 years - it would be defensive suicide. Three at the back would be bad enough when playing against a 4-3-3 like Southampton tend to use, but a sweeper as well? It would make last years 6-1 look like a close match.
I kind of see the logic. Not since Crocodile Dundee have I seen somebody go on a bigger walkabout than Richards. His positional sense in the centre of our defence is shocking. A sweeper to clear up his rubbish would make sense. I'm sure Alan Hutton would be delighted.
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I think I'd be tempted to give the back 3 a go again tomorrow night, but trying Ilori as a sweeper behind Clark and Richards.
No offence Russell, but that is a really bad idea.
It's not an accident that nobody has really used a sweeper for around 25 years - it would be defensive suicide. Three at the back would be bad enough when playing against a 4-3-3 like Southampton tend to use, but a sweeper as well? It would make last years 6-1 look like a close match.
I'm not offended that you have a different opinion Dave.
To my mind, whoever plays centrally within a back 3 is acting as a sweeper, with the 2 players either side of them picking-up the striker/s. Given the personnel that we have at our disposal, and the performances that we've seen from our chosen back 4s this season I think tonight would present a good opportunity to try this system again. I also think that it if we're going to persist with trying to play out from the back, having somebody like Ilori who would is decent in possession of the ball would be a big help.
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I think I'd be tempted to give the back 3 a go again tomorrow night, but trying Ilori as a sweeper behind Clark and Richards.
No offence Russell, but that is a really bad idea.
It's not an accident that nobody has really used a sweeper for around 25 years - it would be defensive suicide. Three at the back would be bad enough when playing against a 4-3-3 like Southampton tend to use, but a sweeper as well? It would make last years 6-1 look like a close match.
I'm not offended that you have a different opinion Dave.
To my mind, whoever plays centrally within a back 3 is acting as a sweeper, with the 2 players either side of them picking-up the striker/s. Given the personnel that we have at our disposal, and the performances that we've seen from our chosen back 4s this season I think tonight would present a good opportunity to try this system again. I also think that it if we're going to persist with trying to play out from the back, having somebody like Ilori who would is decent in possession of the ball would be a big help.
There's nothing wrong with that - it just wouldn't work tonight.
Southampton play three fairly centrally with Pelle as a lone striker and two wider forwards - if we have three centre-backs, you end up with the two either side being dragged out of position to cover the wide forwards - they get drawn towards the ball meaning you then sacrifice the space that they should be occupying. You end up overloading areas of the pitch that you shouldn't be. Especially when our defence has looked shall we say, "positionally indisciplined" this season.
If we were playing a team who played with wingers and two strikers then great, give it a bash. But the way that Southampton play is the textbook way to make three at the back look very bad indeed.
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It’s not paper, scissors, stone though. 4-3-3 doesn’t exclusively beat 3-5-2, but lose to 4-4-2. We have to find a formation that best utilises the players we have and has as much of an emphasis of causing the opposition problems as it does containing them. We’ve looked poor defensively in a back 4 all season (albeit with 45 minutes of a back 3), so- to my mind – need to try something else. To me Richards lacks the positional play to excel in a back 4 and Lescott lacks the mobility to play in a back 3, hence my suggestion to switch formation and players. A 3-5-2 would also mean playing with 2 holding midfielders, one of whom (ideally Sanchez) is able to drop back and help out the centre-backs.
I’ve seen nothing so far this season to suggest that we’d be any less vulnerable (or effective going forward) by sticking to a 4-4-2.
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Apologies if this appeared on another thread, but I took the chance earlier on to try and get myself used to Channel 5's football league show and the prospect of 30 second Villa highlights.
Anyway Baker came up with a couple of great rash 'bull in a china shop' challenges to get a well earned red card that helped contribute to Bristol City's defeat
Apparently the opposing manager was pleased: "I thought my team were excellent from start to finish."
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Another defender who is a mistake waiting to happen. Get rid asap.
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Apologies if this appeared on another thread, but I took the chance earlier on to try and get myself used to Channel 5's football league show and the prospect of 30 second Villa highlights.
Anyway Baker came up with a couple of great rash 'bull in a china shop' challenges to get a well earned red card that helped contribute to Bristol City's defeat
Apparently the opposing manager was pleased: "I thought my team were excellent from start to finish."
and if bakers team had won ,,the opposition manager would have dusted himself down and gone again
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
They can't understand why Robinson can't get a game.
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
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I actually think that if Baker played with a top centre back, or an ex top centre back, besides him to guide him along he would become a top centre half himself. He just has a couple of mad moments during games. If he could just think and check himself. No one can question his commitment and bravery, he just needs to polish up a bit.
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
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I actually think that if Baker played with a top centre back, or an ex top centre back, besides him to guide him along he would become a top centre half himself. He just has a couple of mad moments during games. If he could just think and check himself. No one can question his commitment and bravery, he just needs to polish up a bit.
There's more chance of turning Mount Everest into a bowling green using a bit of 60 grit sanding paper than polishing him up a bit.
His positional play is awful. He's fine in games where the sole tactic is get it wide and cross it for the big fella.
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Couldn't agree more. I've spoken to many people suffering from selective memories on the part of Marc Albrighton. Doubtless he was committed and loves the Villa but, IMO, he was never anything but a one-dimensional winger who frequently struggled to beat his man and deliver a good ball. It used to get quite frustrating watching him consistently giving the ball away or blasting it into the stand!
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Couldn't agree more. I've spoken to many people suffering from selective memories on the part of Marc Albrighton. Doubtless he was committed and loves the Villa but, IMO, he was never anything but a one-dimensional winger who frequently struggled to beat his man and deliver a good ball. It used to get quite frustrating watching him consistently giving the ball away or blasting it into the stand!
to me he was always a great crosser of the ball at villa ,
but hey ho ,,,,,,,,i will agree to dissagree
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Couldn't agree more. I've spoken to many people suffering from selective memories on the part of Marc Albrighton. Doubtless he was committed and loves the Villa but, IMO, he was never anything but a one-dimensional winger who frequently struggled to beat his man and deliver a good ball. It used to get quite frustrating watching him consistently giving the ball away or blasting it into the stand!
to me he was always a great crosser of the ball at villa ,
but hey ho ,,,,,,,,i will agree to dissagree
seconded so because LAMBURK failed to play hime even when he had played well, we start to back up the idea he was not good enough for us, compared to who?
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If you listen to his interviews lately, he credits his success to Ranieri setting things up so he doesn't need to beat his man, just give himself half a yard and whip the cross in or play the through ball, which is what he was doing when he looked best for us.
It really can be a simple game sometimes. Ask players to do the things that they're good at and put players together whose basic skill sets complement each other.
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Am I right in thinking that's his first ever red card?
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Iirc he was sent off at vp against Blackburn very early in his career
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Couldn't agree more. I've spoken to many people suffering from selective memories on the part of Marc Albrighton. Doubtless he was committed and loves the Villa but, IMO, he was never anything but a one-dimensional winger who frequently struggled to beat his man and deliver a good ball. It used to get quite frustrating watching him consistently giving the ball away or blasting it into the stand!
to me he was always a great crosser of the ball at villa ,
but hey ho ,,,,,,,,i will agree to dissagree
Fair enough mate! We are all entitled to our opinions on players. At 26 he is still relatively young and my assessment is based on his time at Villa, predominantly the 2011/2012 2012/2013 seasons, where, after initially being a revelation in the team he struggled, perhaps due to his age. As I said I never doubted his diligence, determination and passion; we could do with bottling it and administering it to our current lot as things stand! However, he was always frustratingly inconsistent IMO. As Villa in Denmark says a change of scenery coupled with his on going development have given him the opportune platform to succeed.
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seconded so because LAMBURK failed to play hime even when he had played well, we start to back up the idea he was not good enough for us, compared to who?
Nice use of capitals to make absolutely certain your searing wit didn't go unnoticed.
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Albrighton is a classic confidence player but even when he's high on confidence he's still just about average. When he's low on confidence he's absolutely awful (as we saw when the entire team was low on confidence).
I don't think anyone can base any judgements on this season - yes he's playing for the team leading the Prem but they're not leading the Prem because of him and apart from a couple of good games he's been pretty anonymous.
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Albrighton is a classic confidence player but even when he's high on confidence he's still just about average. When he's low on confidence he's absolutely awful (as we saw when the entire team was low on confidence).
I don't think anyone can base any judgements on this season - yes he's playing for the team leading the Prem but they're not leading the Prem because of him and apart from a couple of good games he's been pretty anonymous.
Would he get in our current midfield?
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Albrighton is a classic confidence player but even when he's high on confidence he's still just about average. When he's low on confidence he's absolutely awful (as we saw when the entire team was low on confidence).
I don't think anyone can base any judgements on this season - yes he's playing for the team leading the Prem but they're not leading the Prem because of him and apart from a couple of good games he's been pretty anonymous.
Would he get in our current midfield?
I genuinely don't think he would. We've been playing three central midfielders with wingers pushed further forward - in that formation I think he'd be lower down the pecking order than all of Gil, Sinclair, Grealish and Adama.
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My Brother-in-law is a Bristol City season ticket holder. He and his chums all think Baker's wonderful, though they do admit he might have been sent off twice yesterday.
The Championship is Baker's level - so it breaks my heart to think he'll be back playing for us next year!
many were saying exactly the same about Albrighton last year
I love the way Albrighton has been getting brought up recently - as if he's not actually just a bog standard winger having a reasonable run of matches, he's actually the reincarnation of Tony Morley - if only we hadn't been so foolish to be put off by his repeated failure to make himself a regular starter in a piss poor side for five years.
Albrighton is a classic confidence player but even when he's high on confidence he's still just about average. When he's low on confidence he's absolutely awful (as we saw when the entire team was low on confidence).
I don't think anyone can base any judgements on this season - yes he's playing for the team leading the Prem but they're not leading the Prem because of him and apart from a couple of good games he's been pretty anonymous.
Would he get in our current midfield?
I genuinely don't think he would. We've been playing three central midfielders with wingers pushed further forward - in that formation I think he'd be lower down the pecking order than all of Gil, Sinclair, Grealish and Adama.
Seriously??? That's some rose tinted Villa glasses you're wearing.
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It tickled me at Wembley when Jack Woodward was doing pen pictures of each of the Villa players as he announced them, and then literally couldn't think of anything to say about Nathan Baker other than his name.
Mind you, the fact that this was the sole amusing part of the day tells you a lot....
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I'd have Baker back in this month.
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Being lower down the pecking order than Sinclair is one hell of an indictment.
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Sinclair looks to deceive he has had games (few and far between) when he looked to be of some value but really apart from a bit of pace he doesn't have a lot in his locker.
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I'd have Baker back in this month.
I'd say the last thing we needed was another slow, physically fragile and positionally suspect left sided centre back.
If we've just sent Illori back to free up a squad place I can't see the sense in filling that space with someone who'd be third choice and couldn't offer any flexibility by being able to cover other positions
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I would leave him getting games at Bristol City then get him back in our side next season! At least he will know what's coming and have that experience.
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I'd have Baker back in this month.
I'd say the last thing we needed was another slow, physically fragile and positionally suspect left sided centre back.
If we've just sent Illori back to free up a squad place I can't see the sense in filling that space with someone who'd be third choice and couldn't offer any flexibility by being able to cover other positions
I would give Baker another chance.Prone to the odd gaffe and injuries but ironically a robust physical old school centre half,ideal for the Championship.I would say that he is far more defensively aware than Richards and Okore.Last year I thought he had a good partnership with Clark .Interesting that Pulis wanted Clark but let Lescott go.
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Clark has been genuinely awful this season though.
His reaction after the second goal at Norwich was typical of hid season. Striker in yards of space scores behind him and he holds hid arms out pointing at where he should have been.
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I'd have Baker back in this month.
I'd say the last thing we needed was another slow, physically fragile and positionally suspect left sided centre back.
If we've just sent Illori back to free up a squad place I can't see the sense in filling that space with someone who'd be third choice and couldn't offer any flexibility by being able to cover other positions
I would give Baker another chance.Prone to the odd gaffe and injuries but ironically a robust physical old school centre half,ideal for the Championship.I would say that he is far more defensively aware than Richards and Okore.Last year I thought he had a good partnership with Clark .Interesting that Pulis wanted Clark but let Lescott go.
I guess he wanted to pay less per week for a guaranteed defensive bollock.
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I would leave him getting games at Bristol City then get him back in our side next season! At least he will know what's coming and have that experience.
He's not good enough for where we want to be. I would sell him to Bristol City if they want him. We already have Clark to fill the role of positionally unaware, error prone left side centre half and we don't need another one.
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Yep, I would let Bristol have him if they want him. Ironically one of his best performances for us was in that Liverpool semi, until he had to go off. But he'll always be a Championship defender and even if that's where we're headed, I'd prefer to try and find one who's capable of going up a level.
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Yep, I would let Bristol have him if they want him. Ironically one of his best performances for us was in that Liverpool semi, until he had to go off. But he'll always be a Championship defender and even if that's where we're headed, I'd prefer to try and find one who's capable of going up a level.
Agree and I hope that was thinking when signing the likes of him on a linger term contract. Send him out on loan and then at least get some money for him if the loan club are interested, as opposed to him walking away for nothing.
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I'd have Baker back in this month.
I'd say the last thing we needed was another slow, physically fragile and positionally suspect left sided centre back.
If we've just sent Illori back to free up a squad place I can't see the sense in filling that space with someone who'd be third choice and couldn't offer any flexibility by being able to cover other positions
I would give Baker another chance.Prone to the odd gaffe and injuries but ironically a robust physical old school centre half,ideal for the Championship.I would say that he is far more defensively aware than Richards and Okore.Last year I thought he had a good partnership with Clark .Interesting that Pulis wanted Clark but let Lescott go.
Strange how people can see the same thing differently.
Baker & Clark is the one combination I'd do anything to avoid, whilst I thought Clark and Okore were our best pairing last season.
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I'd have Baker back in this month.
I'd say the last thing we needed was another slow, physically fragile and positionally suspect left sided centre back.
If we've just sent Illori back to free up a squad place I can't see the sense in filling that space with someone who'd be third choice and couldn't offer any flexibility by being able to cover other positions
I would give Baker another chance.Prone to the odd gaffe and injuries but ironically a robust physical old school centre half,ideal for the Championship.I would say that he is far more defensively aware than Richards and Okore.Last year I thought he had a good partnership with Clark .Interesting that Pulis wanted Clark but let Lescott go.
Strange how people can see the same thing differently.
Baker & Clark is the one combination I'd do anything to avoid, whilst I thought Clark and Okore were our best pairing last season.
The thought of the Herd, Clark, Baker back three that Lambert used in his first season still has me breaking out in a cold sweat. What was it - 15 goals conceded in 3 games?
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
Certainly the worst team in the top flight .To be fair to Baker and Clark there's zero protection from the midfield and they were younger,21 & 23.I have more confidence in Baker and Clark than Okore and Richards because they don't go walkabout.
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
Certainly the worst team in the top flight .To be fair to Baker and Clark there's zero protection from the midfield and they were younger,21 & 23.I have more confidence in Baker and Clark than Okore and Richards because they don't go walkabout.
That's because they can't move more than 5 yards in any direction. They still manage to get caught out of position more often in 1 game than you'd want to see in a season though.
I thought during that spell where Clark played alongside Okore that it looked like he'd finally started to mature into the defender he'd looked capable of becoming as 17-18 year old. Unfortunately he's gone backwards at a frightening pace this season
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
Certainly the worst team in the top flight .To be fair to Baker and Clark there's zero protection from the midfield and they were younger,21 & 23.I have more confidence in Baker and Clark than Okore and Richards because they don't go walkabout.
before that we smashed liverpool at anfield in a very impressive performance with a young squad. I was full if optimism after that
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
Poor Benteke! That's like sticking him up top for Grantham Town
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Was that the line up for that run?
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
Certainly the worst team in the top flight .To be fair to Baker and Clark there's zero protection from the midfield and they were younger,21 & 23.I have more confidence in Baker and Clark than Okore and Richards because they don't go walkabout.
before that we smashed liverpool at anfield in a very impressive performance with a young squad. I was full if optimism after that
That's been the thing for the last 5 years really...in all the seasons we've still produced the odd exceptional result e.g. winning 3-1 at Chelsea under McLeish and that 3-1 win at Liverpool under Lambert which briefly gets everyone excited....and then we follow that up with a horrendous run of form which kills everything.
What is marking this season as the one we go down is we didn't even win the game (Leicester where we had the good performance).
On Baker, he is limited but I put him along with Hutton in that we will need those types for plenty of our games next season particularly away on bleak midweek nights.
Our most important defender next season will be Okore imo, I'm a fan and think he'll really shine in that league IF he can stay fit.
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We will need another right sided centre half to cover Okore. Baker and Lescott left side with Okore and a new hopefully capable right sided one that knows the division. I would go for Chester from the Albion as he never plays. But watching us Baker will walk back in alongside Okore in the Championship next season.
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Baker's no worse than any of the tossers that have lined up for us this season.
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Just a shout out to baker. Again gave it today . By all accounts he is on par if not better than elphick and I hope he starts in the derby. Bruce praises him since coming in and put in some great stops and blocks. I think Bruce appreciates his play he's an all or nothing guy and very physician when Bing to challenge so can be prone to injury. Not afraid to put his head in I think from schooling from Bruce and could fulfil his potential.
Well played again Nathan ! He's been there mainly for many of the seasons and apart from the loan has has to endure difficult development.
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He's always been wholehearted and despite his obvious limitations I've always wanted him to make it. He still just might. Hope so.
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He played bloody well today.
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If anyone can get a tune from Baker, then Bruce can. It will do Baker no end of good having a former centre back in charge. There is a player in there somewhere and I'd like to see him cut out the errors or poor decisions and turn into a dominant centre back.
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Reading footy's post, if anybody can get a tune out of Baker it's Bing.
.
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Baker hater here. He was MOM for me today. Keep that up and I will be very happy.
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Was that the line up for that run?
The
I can remember Herd filling at centre back against Fulham and not getting within 20 yards of Berbatov all day, as he obviously chose us to have is 1 game in 6 that he gave a shit about. That wasn't pleasant watching either.
Just had a look at the line up for the 8-0 at Chelsea:
Guzan
Herd Clark Baker
Lowton Lichaj
Holman Westwood Bannan
Weimann Benteke
Benteke aside, probably the worst team to ever take the field for Aston Villa? Looking at the next games, that back five stayed in place for the 4-0 defeat at home to Spurs, but then Bennett came in for the 3-0 defeat at home against Wigan with Baker going out (injured probably), meaning Lowton probably went to CB.
Poor Benteke! That's like sticking him up top for Grantham Town
Not good. The same team had just won 3-1 at anfield though
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Looked solid today, as he did v the toon. I think Elphick will struggle to get back in the side if he keeps up performances of this standard.
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I'm a Baker fan. Headed everything today and looked an uncompromising defender in a solid defence.
It helps to have a lefty-righty combination too.
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I usually find find something to slag him off for whenever he plays but I never criticised him once today. That must mean he played well. Keep it up!
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I'm happy to keep the Chester & Baker combination going especially if it keeps Elphick out the side when he's fit again
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Baker has been very good this season. Can he play 10-15 games straight though? Hopefully he stays injury free and can build up a good run of form. He and Chester look solid.
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He was solid yesterday perhaps a lot of that can be put down to Chester keeping him focussed. If he can do that on a consistent basis and cut out the daft mistakes he might win me over.
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Three of us yesterday were talking about which minute Baker would need treatment but he was more discipline and didn't put hus head in where he didn't need to.
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Chester and Baker are clearly our best central pairing. Just a shame that Angel Delight got injured, as that's looking a very good back four for years to come there.
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Don't think he's any worse than Elphick at this level.
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Three of us yesterday were talking about which minute Baker would need treatment but he was more discipline and didn't put hus head in where he didn't need to.
What would we have done if he had? We don't seem to have another centre back in the squad at the moment. Hutton? Jedinak?
Shudders
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For as big and brave as he is it always surprises me that he almost no threat whatsoever in the opposing box from set pieces. I'm not expecting the magnificence of Laursen but he should be good for a few every season or if nothing else just causing enough of a problem for someone else to score.
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For as big and brave as he is it always surprises me that he almost no threat whatsoever in the opposing box from set pieces. I'm not expecting the magnificence of Laursen but he should be good for a few every season or if nothing else just causing enough of a problem for someone else to score.
He's got a head like Kryton from Red Dwarf when stacking no corners, it's an absolute lottery as to which way the ball will head.
I like him though, I said in the summer he'd be more use to us than Clark.
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I agree, it's ridiculous. 50p head doesn't do it justice
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I agree, it's ridiculous. 50p head doesn't do it justice
A head more like the old threepenny bit I think. Good to see him improving though.
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At least he hasn't got a foot like a sheriff's badge like Elphick.
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At least he hasn't got a foot like a sheriff's badge like Elphick.
yeah, but his passing has always been shite.
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For as big and brave as he is it always surprises me that he almost no threat whatsoever in the opposing box from set pieces. I'm not expecting the magnificence of Laursen but he should be good for a few every season or if nothing else just causing enough of a problem for someone else to score.
Sums up the lack of control in general in Bakers play, very much blood and thunder and throws himself at set pieces and in to tackles.
Having said that, he looks better than Elphick and is doing himself alright the appearances he's made. Can't hack it at premier level but at this one he is competent.
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I think Elphick will look a lot better when he and the rest of the defence isn't exposed by a non existent midfield. Playing 3 and having hard working two way forwards will make us much better as a unit and give Gollini a lot more confidence.
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Clutching at straws but baker may become more of a threat once he's established in the team. i'd imagine that he has had little influence in the corner "moves" to date, as he's not been secure in his place in the team.
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I don't think any of our players have had much influence on corner tactics for many a year. In fact I often wonder if anything has been coached and drilled in a very long time.
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Very solid on Saturday - hoping Bruce can get the best out of him!
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Clutching at straws but baker may become more of a threat once he's established in the team. i'd imagine that he has had little influence in the corner "moves" to date, as he's not been secure in his place in the team.
He needs to get the sharp corners on his head sanded down first.
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The block at the end was superb and a game saver
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Very solid on Saturday - hoping Bruce can get the best out of him!
Well if he can`t no-one will, no mean defender himself in his day.
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Very solid on Saturday - hoping Bruce can get the best out of him!
Well if he can`t no-one will, no mean defender himself in his day.
Even with a head like a potato!
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As we know all too well Potato Head also had the knack of nodding the odd goal or two, namely in the 27th minute of Fergie time.
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Let hope Steve will make him a much better central half and allow him to add goals in set pieces.
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He was pretty magnificent today, well done Nathan.
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A more solid option than Elphick at the moment in my opinion. I think he compliments Chester quite well also.
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He was great as were Chester and Jedinak.
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He provided a stable base next to Chester which is what we required in a central defender.
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He was great as were Chester and Jedinak.
Probably my top 3 yesterday
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To be fair to him, he's been ok or better whenever he's played this season. Whether he can continue this improvement in the premier league is another story but we need to get there first. I'd certainly keep him in ahead of Elphick at the moment.
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Played well since he came back. This probably his level.
Keep up the good work
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I though he was/is a mindless, lunging, last ditch merchant who would make a great cult centre back for someone like Milwall.
He's been better than that this season, taken his chance and deserves to be in the team on merit nevermind Elphicks injury. Good on him.
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Him and Chester played well yesterday, however the opposition created a fair few chances so there's still plenty of room to improve.
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He was great as were Chester and Jedinak.
Probably my top 3 yesterday
Aye, same as that.
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I have stuck up for Baker both on here and in pubs post match. I've always thought that there was a decent player in there and I'm confident SB can mould him into a very capable centre back. If he can get up for set pieces and corners then a few Bruce esque goals would follow. Good luck Nathan keep it up.
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He's looking very good at the moment. Him and Chester are proving to be a very capable pairing. Chester is more mobile and snuffs out threats more quickly, but Baker really puts himself on the line for the team. Probably the best bit of the team in recent games.
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He played very well on loan at Bristol City. Very popular with their support.
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He was great as were Chester and Jedinak.
Probably my top 3 yesterday
There's literally no question
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Any news on baker being available tomorrow? I certainly would start him if fit
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Was he a doubt? I guess there's always a doubt with him!
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Thought I’d update my dodgy list.
Baker dumps Gordon Lee out of the top 10.
(http://i.imgur.com/c5rjApm.png)
About time Baker popped one in the onion bag.
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Thought I’d update my dodgy list.
Baker dumps Gordon Lee out of the top 10.
(http://i.imgur.com/c5rjApm.png)
About time Baker popped one in the onion bag.
Nice to see Uncle Frank and cousin Frank on the list...out and out defenders both...rarely in the opposition half...and the patience of a saint, obviously!
Thanks MN!
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In regards to baker it was of course time wise a long wait but hes hasn't always played either due toi selection process injury or suspension or on loan. I think time frame is misleading to a certain extent and this taken into consideration. Though this statsical table just deals with the numbers
If say baker played 2 to 3 full seasons of 38 league games and minimum 3 cup games that's 40 odd matches . He would hace scored by 2014 so really it's not 5 years . I think everyone understands the point.
He played Bristol city one whole season and scored.
Moat importantly Bruce recognise his qualities and will improve him as will calderwood. As one of our own let us enjoy the great years ahead of baker. Bruce was aware Nathan had nt had much a run in the side he also refered to him as young baker too though at 25 his best lies ahead of him
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With his height and athleticism he should be scoring a few more.
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Hope his confidence continues to grow and he'll follow on legends that have gone before
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At 25 he's been thru it all at villa. I think he ll be here for another 10 years !
We 'll see improvement like hull did with Curtis Davies and on cusp if not in future england squads if he continues on right track.
Phil jagielka is past it now and baker is some one with a left foot who add the balance as well as physicality and Ariel dominance.
I dont see any English premier league central defender at 25 as experienced as him. And no one better with left
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He is heart and soul but he doesn't have a pass in him nor any composure. Sorry hope I'm wrong but this is his level and when we get promoted we will need an upgrade
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Any news on baker being available tomorrow? I certainly would start him if fit
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Any news on baker being available tomorrow? I certainly would start him if fit
Doesn't look like he's going to be involved tomorrow, judging by Bruce's press conference today.
Disappointing but i think that we all knew this was coming.
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Any news on baker being available tomorrow? I certainly would start him if fit
Doesn't look like he's going to be involved tomorrow, judging by Bruce's press conference today.
Disappointing but i think that we all knew this was coming.
Thanks.
Such a heartache I guess I'll be posing that question again next match. Get well soon Nathan!
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I hope elphick has sorted himself out whilst he's been off. He was a complete liability before his injury
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I hope elphick has sorted himself out whilst he's been off. He was a complete liability before his injury
So was everyone else.
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I hope elphick has sorted himself out whilst he's been off. He was a complete liability before his injury
He can't be trusted. I hope Baker gets straight back in at the expense of the goal post praying (but only at the Holte End) liability
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Elphick was worse than most though. I think he went through a spell of gifting the oppo a one on one through an errant back pass, for four matches in a row
Luckily we're in the championship
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Get well soon Nathan
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Get well soon Nathan
Get well very very soon.
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Get well soon Nathan
Get well very very soon.
this, very much so.
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Any news on baker being available ? I certainly would start him if fit
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Couldn't really argue with Kodija being MOTM today, but Baker ran him close in my opinion. I really hope we can keep him fit, but because we are just so much better at the back with him playing.
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I still have some of the dead cats that were hurled at me when I supported his contract extension.
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One person replied to your post back then and that was only saying he wasn't young.
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Couldn't really argue with Kodija being MOTM today, but Baker ran him close in my opinion. I really hope we can keep him fit, but because we are just so much better at the back with him playing.
I'd have given it Baker, but as you say, can't argue with Kod winning it either.
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I remember him being well respected at Bristol and that experience seems to be invaluable this season.
Well done Nathan for getting your head down and working hard.
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Good to see him back today. He brought a balance and confidence back to the defence.
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I do have other contacts PWS than those who respond on this forum. I apologise if I gave the impression that the dead cats came from this quarter. However, the fact that the name "50p head" continues to attach itself hints at the criticism both he and Clark have been subjected to.
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Man of the match for me. Very strong in the air, brave in the tackle, both of which we would expect, but also accurate with his passing, which hasn't always been the case. Overall a very impressive performance. Chester too had a very good game.
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He was really good again
Cutting out the rash challenges and mistakes
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I do have other contacts PWS than those who respond on this forum. I apologise if I gave the impression that the dead cats came from this quarter. However, the fact that the name "50p head" continues to attach itself hints at the criticism both he and Clark have been subjected to.
The 50p comment was perfectly valid a year ago as was headless chicken for his reckless lunges and the ease with which he was pulled out of position.
I have been very impressed with his improvement and I think the influence of Chester must have a lot to do with it for the way he organises the back line. It will be interesting to see how he fares if and when we get promoted when he will be pack playing against far smarter players.
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He has been a 50p head until very recently, especially in the opponents box
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May be as well that a year out of the firing line with us last season has helped him. He's always been brave but he seems a lot more assured this season.
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He's also playing again lesser opponents. For me Baker is improved but marginally so. Attacking players at this level are generally less clever, slower and more predicable. This standard suits him very well.
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How many days ago was it posted that the injury he had sustained was "a bruised vagina"?
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The manager wasn't a bad centre half in his day so perhaps that has helped also.
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He's also playing again lesser opponents. For me Baker is improved but marginally so. Attacking players at this level are generally less clever, slower and more predicable. This standard suits him very well.
100%.
He's at his level so he looks competent. Stick him in the Prem and he ends up out of position, leading to his desperate lunges if we're lucky. He'll certainly help us get up but once we're there he'll need replacing.
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While we're at this level though he's just so much better than Elphick as an option for us.
Ask James Chester who he'd rather play alongside....with Baker he hardly puts a foot wrong yet as soon as Elphick comes back in he starts looking shaky and we look vulnerable when teams run at us.
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Chester has to play on the right so we need a left footer in January as cover for Baker.
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i think signing a Catholic is neither here nor there.
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He's also playing again lesser opponents. For me Baker is improved but marginally so. Attacking players at this level are generally less clever, slower and more predicable. This standard suits him very well.
100%.
He's at his level so he looks competent. Stick him in the Prem and he ends up out of position, leading to his desperate lunges if we're lucky. He'll certainly help us get up but once we're there he'll need replacing.
That's true of most of our squad
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i think signing a Catholic is neither here nor there.
I'll take help from any God
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Thought he was superb today, either him or Jedinak my motm. Great atmosphere and a steward told me we were the best fans he had seen in years, that is on a sunday lunchtime.
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Has his limitations, this level suits him, but dependable so far this season. Get a decent keeper in behind him and Chester and we have a solid platform. I'd like him to score more goals for us.
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I think you are being a little unfair there, he has been more than dependable. And I think he could be more of an asset at set pieces, though was chuffed with his goal at Brighton as had 2 quid @ 100/1.
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How many days ago was it posted that the injury he had sustained was "a bruised vagina"?
A recent Facebook 'inspirational poster meme' posted by a lady, who owns lots of cats and posts many moving tributes to our brave boys, lost children and lonely old people, informs me that we might wish to call people 'cocks' instead of 'pussies' or vaginas as the latter 'can take a real pounding'.
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Is he injured again?
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He's also playing again lesser opponents. For me Baker is improved but marginally so. Attacking players at this level are generally less clever, slower and more predicable. This standard suits him very well.
100%.
He's at his level so he looks competent. Stick him in the Prem and he ends up out of position, leading to his desperate lunges if we're lucky. He'll certainly help us get up but once we're there he'll need replacing.
Even if that's true, there are far worse players in the squad who don't look competent at this level, eg Elphick, Westwood, Agbonlahor, so if and when we do get back up, I wouldn't be worrying about Baker too much. It's his injury record that's the concern, not his ability in my opinion.
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He's also playing again lesser opponents. For me Baker is improved but marginally so. Attacking players at this level are generally less clever, slower and more predicable. This standard suits him very well.
100%.
He's at his level so he looks competent. Stick him in the Prem and he ends up out of position, leading to his desperate lunges if we're lucky. He'll certainly help us get up but once we're there he'll need replacing.
Even if that's true, there are far worse players in the squad who don't look competent at this level, eg Elphick, Westwood, Agbonlahor, so if and when we do get back up, I wouldn't be worrying about Baker too much. It's his injury record that's the concern, not his ability in my opinion.
Agreed. He seems to be coming of age and if he stays fit could become a really good player for us even in the PL. In a full blooded no nonsense Sean Teale kind of way.
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This may well be his level, but we're at this level, so play him every game because he looks very good.
Hopefully he'll learn and improve when we go up (not necessarily this season).
Imagine if every player gave his effort every game over the last however many years.
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The best thing you can say about baker, or a reflection of where we are today, is that with him in the team we're more likely to win than not.
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I like him a lot, always rated him higher than Clark. You know where you are with him, and I think Chester compliments him well too.
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The best thing you can say about baker, or a reflection of where we are today, is that with him in the team we're more likely to win than not.
So we have achieved the standard our players can deliver.
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clearly. that's why we went down.
Saying that I've always thought Baker was capable of a lot more and it was just his passing, and youthful exuberance that let him down. Liverpool away when we won 1-0, 0-0 at West Ham spring to mind when he was excellent. There's a player there and it would be interesting to see if he's devdeloped enough for the top flight. I doubt it but I'd like to see.
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He's a favourite of mine. Anyone else like him
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always liked him
Liked ciaran Clark to we all know he had a mistake in him but he always seemed to give his all shame we couldn't of seen him after a few weeks of Bruce's guidance
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He's a favourite of mine. Anyone else like him
yes. I find he has lovely hair. Him and Bunn
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He's a favourite of mine. Anyone else like him
Yes, and can any one tell me how many consecutive games he can play without getting injured?
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Not consequitive games more like minutes.
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He's a favourite of mine. Anyone else like him
yes. I find he has lovely hair. Him and Bunn
This one made me laugh! Thanks after a stressful evening at an enforced xmas social. Merry Christmas to you Toronto!
P.S. he looks like Mark bunn and Baker could be brothers too !
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He's a favourite of mine. Anyone else like him
Yes, and can any one tell me how many consecutive games he can play without getting injured?
Merry Christmas to you to Chicago. I hope it's different for him next year. But i think its only 2 or 3!
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Not consequitive games more like minutes.
Haha very good!
Merry Xmas bren'd!
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I think he did 5 injured for 3. Let's give him a chance. He didn't need a stretcher against qpr
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He's a favourite of mine. Anyone else like him
Me, too.
He had the misfortune of breaking though as we were going in a downward spiral (same can be said for Clark)
Our awful midfield, over the past five or six years, certainly didn't help.
I think he could make up for lost time with Steve Bruce guiding him.
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
Someone should chuck a brick at him, see what he does
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
Someone should chuck a brick at him, see what he does
I have no idea why this made me laugh, but it did.
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
Someone should chuck a brick at him, see what he does
Head the fucker back.
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
Someone should chuck a brick at him, see what he does
Head the fucker back.
Yeah, that's our Nathan
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I think he should have a kit made for him out of bubble wrap.
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Saw his name at the top of the board, feared the worst.
As you were our brick repelling battering ram.
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
Someone should chuck a brick at him, see what he does
Head the fucker back.
Any news on his magic hat?
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Did we pinch the chant from Leeds? Not a fan of using other teams chants, but it's good he's doing well. Everyone loves a wholehearted defender.
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Probably. It's an old song though, the format at least. Reminds me of Stevie Bull and the fact that he's a tatter.
Anyway, I think dirty Leeds sing it about that diving fanny Jansson, who Baker would chin with his beard alone.
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Probably. It's an old song though, the format at least. Reminds me of Stevie Bull and the fact that he's a tatter.
Anyway, I think dirty Leeds sing it about that diving fanny Jansson, who Baker would chin with his beard alone.
Shame he was nowhere near him when he scored against us, lost his man. I like that Pontus Jansen good player. Gotta say there's not a lot more entertaining than Baker going for a 50/50.
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Baker has trained all week and looking likely to play which is good news.
Someone should chuck a brick at him, see what he does
Head the fucker back.
Yeah, that's our Nathan
Yeah, Christ imagine the damage a brick would do to him. If he was hit with a feather he'd be out for a month.
Actually that's cruel, he's been a good player this season.
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Did we pinch the chant from Leeds? Not a fan of using other teams chants, but it's good he's doing well. Everyone loves a wholehearted defender.
That song is over 40 years old and was originally sang about Brian Little. Hence my user name
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Did we pinch the chant from Leeds? Not a fan of using other teams chants, but it's good he's doing well. Everyone loves a wholehearted defender.
That song is over 40 years old and was originally sang about Brian Little. Hence my user name
Have to say I don't remember that song being used for Brian, it was always 'Brian Little walks on water...'
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There definitely was a Brian Little wears a magic hat song.
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Get well soon Nathan. Pulled hamstring in warm up
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Brian little' magic
He wears a magic hat
He plays for Aston villa
And lives in a council flat
He scores with his left foot
He scores with his right
And when we play against the blues he scores all fuckin night
Must admit I don't remember hearing it on the terrace but I do remember my dad teaching me a youngster probably no more than 7 or 8 at the time
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Get well soon Nathan. Pulled hamstring in warm up
When I checked the line up yesterday I laughed loudly (at a wedding. Thankfully not during the ceremony itself) when it said Baker got injured in the warm up. It's not that funny, but it's that sort of exhausted, inappropriate laugh we'll all occasionally do. As if to say "are you fucking kidding me!??"
Who the hell did this lad get on the wrong side of in a previous life? He's cursed.
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He wears a magic hat
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Is he fit for tomorrow?
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That's a very good - and very frequent - question. Sites say YES.
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Did we pinch the chant from Leeds? Not a fan of using other teams chants, but it's good he's doing well. Everyone loves a wholehearted defender.
That song is over 40 years old and was originally sang about Brian Little. Hence my user name
Have to say I don't remember that song being used for Brian, it was always 'Brian Little walks on water...'
There definitely was a Brian Little wears a magic hat song.
There very well may have been, pw, but I certainly don't remember it being sung on the terraces
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Always rated Baker. He came in very young in the premiership. No hiding places there for a centre back, as we all know. Sure, he had at least one howler most games, but he did ok and is certainly equipped for the championship. He's definitely not a shirker, but him and Clarke together were just too inexperienced as a partnership. Both players, for me, did better with a more experienced centre back alongside them.
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ooh that missed header came back to haunt us at the end.
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Ugo head with that free header.
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Always rated Baker. He came in very young in the premiership. No hiding places there for a centre back, as we all know. Sure, he had at least one howler most games, but he did ok and is certainly equipped for the championship. He's definitely not a shirker, but him and Clarke together were just too inexperienced as a partnership. Both players, for me, did better with a more experienced centre back alongside them.
Clarke? Sorry, who?
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Looked to be in some discomfort with his back again at the end of the game
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This tickled me, observe our Nathan very much horizontal but still attempting to get in the way.
It shouldn’t make me laugh, but it does.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jsrCtv/1AYi0bx.gif) (http://ibb.co/jsrCtv)
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And to think some people said he looked like a fish out of water playing for Villa.
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cant fault his heart but a very very average defender.
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I would not even describe him as average, for me he is poor.
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cant fault his heart but a very very average defender.
I disagree. I think that he's a decent defender, just not a very good footballer.
The tackling, heading and generally getting in the way he can do. Its kicking a football that he has problems with, as we saw against Ipswich when McCarthy's tactics appeared to be to channel the ball towards Bakerbauer.
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Each to his opinion for me some of his performances this season have been outstanding and I'd say he is the most improved player at the club. Granted the way football is played these days you need to be a bit more cultured in possession but all Nathan has to do is tackle and pass the ball to someone that can play a bit or knock it to Chester.
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I think its very telling that Bruce has made him first pick as CB and has chosen to to spend in that position. Fans main criticism with Baker was that he always had a clanger in him - I think he has eradicated that from his game and looks much more assured.
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Each to his opinion for me some of his performances this season have been outstanding and I'd say he is the most improved player at the club. Granted the way football is played these days you need to be a bit more cultured in possession but all Nathan has to do is tackle and pass the ball to someone that can play a bit or knock it to Chester.
I have always rated Baker, although his partnership with Clark was shocking. He and Chester are a solid pairing and I would certainly stick with them. As you say, he does the simple things (ie his job) well.
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This tickled me, observe our Nathan very much horizontal but still attempting to get in the way.
It shouldn’t make me laugh, but it does.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jsrCtv/1AYi0bx.gif) (http://ibb.co/jsrCtv)
I saw John Terry do that once. Pure desire to win. Fantastic stuff.
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I think its very telling that Bruce has made him first pick as CB and has chosen to to spend in that position. Fans main criticism with Baker was that he always had a clanger in him - I think he has eradicated that from his game and looks much more assured.
Is it not more the case that he is playing at his level, now?
Don't get me wrong: I think he does a great job right now. Against more mobile and tricky forwards I think we'll agree that he is limited.
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This tickled me, observe our Nathan very much horizontal but still attempting to get in the way.
It shouldn’t make me laugh, but it does.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jsrCtv/1AYi0bx.gif) (http://ibb.co/jsrCtv)
I saw John Terry do that once. Pure desire to win. Fantastic stuff.
It's a pity a few others, recent past and present, didn't show those levels of commitment!!
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If I do have a criticism Nathan it's that he needs to improve his goal scoring - he could be like Derek Mountfield and bag us 5+ goals a season from set pieces he always seems to be in the right place at corners but more often than not hits the post or nods it wide.
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He can't help having a head like a 50p piece. But one thing about our Nathan, he'll always put his body, head, face, hair, internal organs, whatever, on the line for Villa.
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I actually think he's been o.k at this level for most of the season, him and Chester were forming a decent combination.
It's Elphick who's been the disaster at the back.
Baker's weakness has always been against quick direct forwards....luckily there aren't too many of them down here but Brentford was a reminder of why he isn't good enough to be a regular in the prem.
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Brave and good enough at this level to defend, but distribution will never ever be good enough for a pro footballer.
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Yep, someone needs to tell our new midfield that they need to go back and fetch the ball off him before he launches it to the opposition's centre halves. It's a long time since we had a centre half with distribution as bad as his. Giving him the ball is literally the same as giving it straight to the opposition.
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Such a good song for such an average player. He along with elthick could become the new darling of the villa aka westwood
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Yep, someone needs to tell our new midfield that they need to go back and fetch the ball off him before he launches it to the opposition's centre halves. It's a long time since we had a centre half with distribution as bad as his. Giving him the ball is literally the same as giving it straight to the opposition.
It's been notable as a tactic in the last 2 games that the opposition are actively letting him have the ball, then when he's got it pressing him quickly so he just lumps it forwards and gives it away
One of the notable things last night was we started by Hourihane and Lansbury getting the ball off him and up until half time he hardly lumped it or launched it at all. The second half it was back to the usual, the fucking great clumsy lummox. Funnily enough last night Barnsley played a really high line and compressed the play, needless to say we don't have the creativity or raw pace to punish a team that plays like that.
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Funnily enough last night Barnsley played a really high line and compressed the play, needless to say we don't have the creativity or raw pace to punish a team that plays like that.
Forest did exactly the same a couple of weeks back. It really shouldn't be that difficult, with the players at our disposal, to exploit that should it?
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Baker lumps the ball because basically our so called 'class' midfield hide and give him absolutely no other option but to hoof it!
Did Grealish want the ball? Hourihane the invisible man? Lansbury playing so deep it was ridiculous! Adomah the airy-fairy player!
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Its not just the seniors who drop him in it.
Late on against Ipswich Baker had the ball and with no options he took the ball forward into the space, Andre Green was just standing there. Baker gestured to him to make a move about 3 times before lofting the ball down the channel. Think it rolled out of play.
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Not good enough, had a couple of good games a few weeks back, but still gets caught out of position, dives in too much, always going down injured, no different to how he has been for the previous few years
Just because we copied a song after we went to Leeds and fitted his name into it does not turn him into the being a nailed on starter, he is a back up at best, should have strengthened this position in January
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Not good enough, had a couple of good games a few weeks back, but still gets caught out of position, dives in too much, always going down injured, no different to how he has been for the previous few years
Just because we copied a song after we went to Leeds and fitted his name into it does not turn him into the being a nailed on starter, he is a back up at best, should have strengthened this position in January
I think he has been one of our better performers this season to be honest.
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The Barnsley penalty came from Baker aimlessly punting a long ball up field and losing possession, he did it a few minutes afterwards again and Bruce went crazy on the touchline.
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Why not put Jacob Bedeau in? He's supposed to be a ball playing Centre Half. Villa rarely put young players in saying "it's too early" RHM is another case in point. What is there to lose with so many under preforming senior players?
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The Barnsley penalty came from Baker aimlessly punting a long ball up field and losing possession, he did it a few minutes afterwards again and Bruce went crazy on the touchline.
Give me a break, so what do you expect him to do, lose it in his own half because he has nobody to pass too, try and hide like the rest of our midfield, pass it back to our goalkeeper (who nearly cost us a goal on Tuesday due to his trying to dribble around the attacker) or pass it into the oppositions half for our so called 'strikers' to actually try and compete for the ball?
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Not good enough, had a couple of good games a few weeks back, but still gets caught out of position, dives in too much, always going down injured, no different to how he has been for the previous few years
Just because we copied a song after we went to Leeds and fitted his name into it does not turn him into the being a nailed on starter, he is a back up at best, should have strengthened this position in January
I think he has been one of our better performers this season to be honest.
Yes, I do as well.
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The Barnsley penalty came from Baker aimlessly punting a long ball up field and losing possession, he did it a few minutes afterwards again and Bruce went crazy on the touchline.
Give me a break, so what do you expect him to do, lose it in his own half because he has nobody to pass too, try and hide like the rest of our midfield, pass it back to our goalkeeper (who nearly cost us a goal on Tuesday due to his trying to dribble around the attacker) or pass it into the oppositions half for our so called 'strikers' to actually try and compete for the ball?
I don't blame Baker because he's clearly not good enough but surely one of the "professionals" employed by AVFC can see that lumping balls up to Hogan is not going to work. Pointy may have wound a few people up but at least he dropped deep and picked the ball up off Baker before he launched it. How long is it going to take our new midfield to realise one of them needs to do the same?
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He's crap but he's been head and shoulders better than last season.
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He's crap but he's been head and shoulders better than last season.
Yep he's a clumsy injury prone lummox but he's been better this season.
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He's crap but he's been head and shoulders better than last season.
I like Nathan. He plays like he gives a shit which a lot of them don't.
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He's crap but he's been head and shoulders better than last season.
I like Nathan. He plays like he gives a shit which a lot of them don't.
Plays like he needs a shit more like.
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The Barnsley penalty came from Baker aimlessly punting a long ball up field and losing possession, he did it a few minutes afterwards again and Bruce went crazy on the touchline.
Give me a break, so what do you expect him to do, lose it in his own half because he has nobody to pass too, try and hide like the rest of our midfield, pass it back to our goalkeeper (who nearly cost us a goal on Tuesday due to his trying to dribble around the attacker) or pass it into the oppositions half for our so called 'strikers' to actually try and compete for the ball?
Give you a break? What on earth are you babbling on about? The penalty did come from Baker needlessly hoofing possession away and he did do it a few minutes later were Bruce went mad at him, what exactly are you taking exception to?
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I thought he was partly at fault too. He had an opportunity to play it wide to Amavi moments before the punt too but decided to dally with the ball as he does. Lansbury should be the out ball every time in such situations. It's his job to show himself.
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He's crap but he's been head and shoulders better than last season.
I like Nathan. He plays like he gives a shit which a lot of them don't.
Plays like he needs a shit more like.
Ha, I see what you've done. Brilliant.
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obviously Villa think a lot of him as they were prepared to let Clark go.
I think he'll come good in an average premiership centre half way ie Shawcross
He's an old school stopper when he's on the ball he's going to need two short options other wise he'll hoof it.
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We had no say in Clark going -the dreaded release clause!
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I wonder if Elphick has one ?
Much sooner have an injury prone nutter of a CH than an error-prone nutter.
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Played his part in the goal by keeping the ball in the danger area.
Generally a rock since next to Chester in a flat 4
And the clearing diving header at the end was unbelievable
Fair play to the guy
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Nathan's headers in the lead up to Gabby's goal had a touch of Martin Laursen about them.
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He's a great player and will get better now he's playing with a better player alongside him.
Bruce, once being a great centre half himself, can certainly nurture him.
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He's doing well and a I really like him
But I fear that he's still not good enough against premier league or top championship players
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He's good enough for this division easily from what I've seen. I'd be pretty happy if him and Chester are lining up in August as to me they're a solid partnership.
Obviously need better than calamity Elphick as back up though.
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Think he's fine for this division given our defence is up there with the best. Not good enough for the PL but we're not there yet. We need improved cover as his injury record means we need a better replacement than we currently have but for now scoring goals is our biggest barrier to promotion.
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He's good enough for this division easily from what I've seen. I'd be pretty happy if him and Chester are lining up in August as to me they're a solid partnership.
Obviously need better than calamity Elphick as back up though.
I'm not so sure. Even the games we were keeping clean sheets involved us giving away some very good chances from some prett basic mistakes
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
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not really. They are mostly stoppers which is good enough for mid-table. But, we need more than that. I'd prefer a minimum of one centre-half because we have no cover. I'd also like a full-back who understands the concept of give and go, or can be an attacking outlet. Bree or De laet may turn out to be that player but Amavi isn't. nor is Hutton. That we have sunk to his level shouldn't mean that we should settle for it. I haven't seen enough of Taylor in the flesh so to speak so can't comment on the runs he makes off the ball and what his touch is like. but I'd like to replace Baker and Hutton. Baker for the bench Hutton for someone else's.
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The defence needs to be better on the ball. The full backs need to offer more going forward. We have a good defensive record but only through playing dour defensive football. We need to be able to defend solidly as a team without having to keep 9 men behind the ball.
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
Really, that's disappointing. I didn't travel to Blackburn, but I have been quite impressed with his performances since he joined. In my opinion he has improved game on game and was really missed when he was out in April.
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The defence needs to be better on the ball. The full backs need to offer more going forward. We have a good defensive record but only through playing dour defensive football. We need to be able to defend solidly as a team without having to keep 9 men behind the ball.
Only scoring 46 goals in 45 games isn't down to the full-backs not offering enough going forward. Needs to come from the midfield.
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
Sorry Risso, I totally disagree, I think he's been one of our best players since signing. His man never gets past him, he gets into good positions going forward and his reading of the game, especially regarding balls played between him and the centre-backs, is superb. He may not have Amavi's flair but he's a bloody good defender.
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
Really, that's disappointing. I didn't travel to Blackburn, but I have been quite impressed with his performances since he joined. In my opinion he has improved game on game and was really missed when he was out in April.
He's definitely improved, but that's from a very poor start.
Baker's fine in the Championship as long as the midfield drop deep and take the ball of him. As soon as he's asked to pass it we're in danger of at best, giving the ball away, at worst, giving a goal away.
Once we're back in the Prem he shouldn't even be in the squad.
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
Really, that's disappointing. I didn't travel to Blackburn, but I have been quite impressed with his performances since he joined. In my opinion he has improved game on game and was really missed when he was out in April.
He's definitely improved, but that's from a very poor start.
Baker's fine in the Championship as long as the midfield drop deep and take the ball of him. As soon as he's asked to pass it we're in danger of at best, giving the ball away, at worst, giving a goal away.
Once we're back in the Prem he shouldn't even be in the squad.
Ad@m I was responding to Risso's comment with reference to Taylor
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not really. They are mostly stoppers which is good enough for mid-table. But, we need more than that. I'd prefer a minimum of one centre-half because we have no cover. I'd also like a full-back who understands the concept of give and go, or can be an attacking outlet. Bree or De laet may turn out to be that player but Amavi isn't. nor is Hutton. That we have sunk to his level shouldn't mean that we should settle for it. I haven't seen enough of Taylor in the flesh so to speak so can't comment on the runs he makes off the ball and what his touch is like. but I'd like to replace Baker and Hutton. Baker for the bench Hutton for someone else's.
Pretty much agree with most of this. No doubt Baker has improved somewhat this season, but he is still a liability at the back whether that be due to an unforced error or simply his lack of basic football ability to pass a ball. He is one of the reasons why the midfield is bypassed and we play it long, whether that is due to ability or confidence. We need to sign another CB to play alongside Chester with Baker purely as backup on the bench, and another FB in addition to Bree, De Laet and Taylor however I have a feeling that we may not have seen the last of Hutton.
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My hope is that Baker can evolve into a decent Prem player. I'm a critic of him but he's been mostly decent this season in fairness. When he shows a bit of form his injury proneness isn't an issue somehow. He deserves to keep his place for now.
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
Really, that's disappointing. I didn't travel to Blackburn, but I have been quite impressed with his performances since he joined. In my opinion he has improved game on game and was really missed when he was out in April.
He's definitely improved, but that's from a very poor start.
Baker's fine in the Championship as long as the midfield drop deep and take the ball of him. As soon as he's asked to pass it we're in danger of at best, giving the ball away, at worst, giving a goal away.
Once we're back in the Prem he shouldn't even be in the squad.
Ad@m I was responding to Risso's comment with reference to Taylor
I know you were. And my first line was in response to that. The rest of my post was an attempt to get the Nathan Baker thread back on track! ;)
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I think the back four of Taylor, Baker, Chester, and Hutton are fine for this division. Baker, if he stays fit can be a real asset so I wouldn't tinker with this much other than better back up next season.
Where it all goes wrong is midfield and up front. We have no pace and no imagination. The amount of times I see our defenders get the ball and look up and see no movement is frightening. That's why our away from is so shite, no options and no pace.
Taylor is atrocious. Watched him closely against Blackburn, and he's absolutely brainless.
Really, that's disappointing. I didn't travel to Blackburn, but I have been quite impressed with his performances since he joined. In my opinion he has improved game on game and was really missed when he was out in April.
He's definitely improved, but that's from a very poor start.
Baker's fine in the Championship as long as the midfield drop deep and take the ball of him. As soon as he's asked to pass it we're in danger of at best, giving the ball away, at worst, giving a goal away.
Once we're back in the Prem he shouldn't even be in the squad.
Ad@m I was responding to Risso's comment with reference to Taylor
I know you were. And my first line was in response to that. The rest of my post was an attempt to get the Nathan Baker thread back on track! ;)
Right - with ya now.....Baker has improved as well, as the season has progressed, with a few odd lapses
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Baker is playing at his level. Mid table, Championship. If we want to do better we have to be more ruthless and get someone better in. Same as Hutton, Gardner, Bacuna.
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Baker is playing at his level. Mid table, Championship. If we want to do better we have to be more ruthless and get someone better in. Same as Hutton, Gardner, Bacuna.
Have to agree and would add that we need someone who is better on the ball. I just wonder if Jedinak going back there is a serious option for next season and if that is the case, then I would expect Bruce to bring in another defensive midfielder to replace him.
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For the time he has been in or around the 1st team, his awareness and positioning should have been improving. Without the ball and when he has time on the ball, he looks too casual. He always looks like Bambi on ice to me.
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I've always liked him, but I do agree that this is probably his level. He's done ok this season I think.
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I've always liked him, but I do agree that this is probably his level. He's done ok this season I think.
Yes he has but an upgrade needed
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His popularity has increased because a catchy chant Very average and prone to mistakes but I must be missing something as a lot disagree with me
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After last season I think that a lot of fans wanted and appreciated commitment and effort which NB shows every match, he ain't the best but would you prefer Micah Richards instead? I am quite happy with his selection and if and when we get promoted we can evaluate his value to the team
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After last season I think that a lot of fans wanted and appreciated commitment and effort which NB shows every match, he ain't the best but would you prefer Micah Richards instead? I am quite happy with his selection and if and when we get promoted we can evaluate his value to the team
I agree. He is ok but at least appears to give a shot and tries hard. He's blessed that he's at the villa.
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He is a very brave, very moderate player but has the big advantage of being one of the least corrupted by the large number of nasty, lazy players who have passed through our dressing room in recent times. He does give a shit.
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Very average and prone to mistakes
Pretty much sums it up for me. He may give a shit and he may put a shift in, but he's just not very good. A very limited player and we need a better option to start alongside Chester.
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Very average and prone to mistakes
Pretty much sums it up for me. He may give a shit and he may put a shift in, but he's just not very good. A very limited player and we need a better option to start alongside Chester.
And this is where we are at - as supporters we have dumbed down our expectations as regards to levels of skill. Years of poor selection and coaching have left us with the minimum requirement that a player 'puts a shift in'. Baker is not alone by any means but it is a depressing fact that Villa teams of the last 4-5 seasons have not been able to pass to their own players on a consistent basis, create chances/score from midfield, take set pieces with some element of imagination, move intelligently off the ball, take thrown ins and find a team mate and generally have the aim of being better than the opposition.
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And this is where we are at - as supporters we have dumbed down our expectations as regards to levels of skill. Years of poor selection and coaching have left us with the minimum requirement that a player 'puts a shift in'. Baker is not alone by any means but it is a depressing fact that Villa teams of the last 4-5 seasons have not been able to pass to their own players on a consistent basis, create chances/score from midfield, take set pieces with some element of imagination, move intelligently off the ball, take thrown ins and find a team mate and generally have the aim of being better than the opposition.
Indeed. Last week was a microcosm of our season: indifferent play, poor intensity, and inability to keep the ball and a goal conceded because we expect our Nathe to be able to pass out of defence (hint: he rarely can and rarely does).
NB - nice attitude: shame about his limitations.
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Shocking for the penalty today - not so much the challenge, more for being rounded in slow motion
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And while we're stuck with Baker, Ciaran Clark is picking up his champions medal. I still can't believe the level of discussion that took place on here as to which one was better.
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Baker had a bloody good game today. I'd rather have him than Clark.
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Shocking for the penalty today - not so much the challenge, more for being rounded in slow motion
If the game was only about getting that brave tackle in or his head in the way of harm to clear the ball he would be considered a great player but he has far too many limitations to be that.
However I still prefer him to Clark.
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4 times in the opening 7 minutes he hoofed it long directly to their keeper, whoever told him that he is a ball playing defender needs their head looking at.
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Baker had a bloody good game today. I'd rather have him than Clark.
Crikey! I'll have some of whatever you're drinking!
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Baker had a bloody good game today. I'd rather have him than Clark.
Crikey! I'll have some of whatever you're drinking!
I thought he was was much stronger than the player he was marking, so came out on top which meant it looked like he had a decent game.
His distribution is still shocking though.
Does his sending off carry over to next season or is it a clean slate?
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For me Baker is always either 8/10 or 5/10...needs to be 7 or 8 out of 10 every week. Today would be a generous 5/10, shockingly slow reactions led to him losing that ball for the penalty & red card
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Baker had a bloody good game today. I'd rather have him than Clark.
Crikey! I'll have some of whatever you're drinking!
No he didn't. Meaningless hoofs forward in the first half which gave away possession at least half a dozen times, dragged out if position quite a few times before getting sent off (harshly admittedly). He may be a full blooded type of player and gets his shorts dirty (invariably because he's trying to get back into position) but he patently isn't good enough and he's the least commanding centre half of a commanding centre half type I've seen. For all his aerial dominance he's got a head like a 50p and he doesn't score enough from set pieces. Other than that, yeah brilliant.
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Baker had a bloody good game today. I'd rather have him than Clark.
Crikey! I'll have some of whatever you're drinking!
I thought he was was much stronger than the player he was marking, so came out on top which meant it looked like he had a decent game.
His distribution is still shocking though.
Does his sending off carry over to next season or is it a clean slate?
Misses first game of next season.
I thought the red card was harsh. Bacuna did exactly the same v Reading and didn't even get booked. I thought they changed it so the penalty was enough.
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I assume we'll appeal it and I reckon we have a decent chance of it being rescinded. He was awful in the lead up to the pen though. However, overall he's had a decent season and is one of the reasons we have the 5th best defence in the division.
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He's been our second best defender this season.
And the referee should check his copy of the updated rules regarding the denial of a goalscoring opportunity.
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He's at his level which is mid table Championship. We need better if we are to improve next season.
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He got a standing ovation when he went off, so I think quite a few must agree with me that he's had a good season. In terms of distribution, Shaun Teale was shocking but he still did ok! Also, his positioning was pretty good yesterday.
I reserve my ire for the likes of Amavi and Bacuna.
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His hoofs forward were in the main caused by the ball being constantly passed back to him from midfield and leaving him little option, he is a give all average player but he shouldn't be criticised because the midfield and forwards are not doing their job.
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Baker is decent for where we are, if we want to improve then he needs replacing.
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as many others have said his heart is in the right place but every time he passes the ball forwards, we loose possession. You know the rest.
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One thing I really don't get is the ovation for a player when he gets sent off & if I had been Brucie I would have been on the pitch dragging Baker off the pitch when he was milking the applause....a red card = letting your team down, particularly when it was so pathetically self induced with such a sloppy piece of defending.
2 or 3 times I saw Bruce going mad with Bakers distribution, a couple of hoofs forward and one back pass had him waving his arms about.
Think this summer may be the time to upgrade him, having two centre halves who are very, very poor with the ball at their feet isn't ideal.
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One thing I really don't get is the ovation for a player when he gets sent off & if I had been Brucie I would have been on the pitch dragging Baker off the pitch when he was milking the applause....a red card = letting your team down, particularly when it was so pathetically self induced with such a sloppy piece of defending.
2 or 3 times I saw Bruce going mad with Bakers distribution, a couple of hoofs forward and one back pass had him waving his arms about.
Think this summer may be the time to upgrade him, having two centre halves who are very, very poor with the ball at their feet isn't ideal.
So why does he persist? He should be under clear instruction not to hoof the ball but to give it to Lansbury so he can do it. Lansbury should be the outlet every time It's why we got him isn't it?
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It is but in order for that to happen it requires a midfielder, be it Lansbury to come deep, find space that allows a simple ball, same way as Bannan does for Sheff Wed. Part of our problem is the only one who does that consistently is Jedinak and his distribution is only marginally better than Baker / Chester??
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He can't be a starter next season if we have any ambition to get promoted.
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One thing I really don't get is the ovation for a player when he gets sent off & if I had been Brucie I would have been on the pitch dragging Baker off the pitch when he was milking the applause....a red card = letting your team down, particularly when it was so pathetically self induced with such a sloppy piece of defending.
2 or 3 times I saw Bruce going mad with Bakers distribution, a couple of hoofs forward and one back pass had him waving his arms about.
Think this summer may be the time to upgrade him, having two centre halves who are very, very poor with the ball at their feet isn't ideal.
I gave him a standing ovation to thank him for a great season. He and Chester seem to have a great understanding. Like I said when I talked about Shaun Teale, it's not a deal breaker for me that his passing isn't 100%. He's there to stop the goals. I don't see Kodjia making sliding tackles; shall we upgrade him as well?
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He can't be a starter next season if we have any ambition to get promoted.
I think he's the least of our worries. If we had a forward thinking midfield strategy he could pass the ball short and concentrate on defending. The way we don't press forward as a team puts a lot of pressure on him and the rest of the defence.
Has to stay fit though.
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Very average with tendency to give daft balls away. Got to be better out there
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I would appeal his ban. It was a terrible decision from the referee.
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Was Clark desperate to leave last summer ? Or did we see it as a good deal after signing Elphick ?
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Was Clark desperate to leave last summer ? Or did we see it as a good deal after signing Elphick ?
There was a release clause in Clark's contract.
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One thing I really don't get is the ovation for a player when he gets sent off & if I had been Brucie I would have been on the pitch dragging Baker off the pitch when he was milking the applause....a red card = letting your team down, particularly when it was so pathetically self induced with such a sloppy piece of defending.
2 or 3 times I saw Bruce going mad with Bakers distribution, a couple of hoofs forward and one back pass had him waving his arms about.
Think this summer may be the time to upgrade him, having two centre halves who are very, very poor with the ball at their feet isn't ideal.
I gave him a standing ovation to thank him for a great season. He and Chester seem to have a great understanding. Like I said when I talked about Shaun Teale, it's not a deal breaker for me that his passing isn't 100%. He's there to stop the goals. I don't see Kodjia making sliding tackles; shall we upgrade him as well?
By getting turned far too easily and giving away a penalty in trying to get back?
Being able to pass the ball is a fundamental basic that everyone in the squad should be comfortable with (even keepers). It's a core skill. However even if we let that go he still makes too many mistakes and has to throw himself at the ball to recover. He's at an age now where his experience should mean he can read the game and get into position but all too often he's caught out and has to rely on a lunge to save the day. It's the same problem Hutton, Elphick and Richards all have. That's why Hutton alongside Elphick has been such a car crash when it's been forced on us.
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I think he's had a decent season overall. We looked a lot more solid when he was in the side alongside Chester.
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I think he's had a decent season overall. We looked a lot more solid when he was in the side alongside Chester.
I agree, mainly because it put Chester in between Hutton and Baker and he used his experience to get them into better positions, didn't help Amavi though (who also has positional problems but is much younger). Amavi looked good earlier in the season when Chester was playing left-sided centre back but the Hutton-Elphick combo on the right was frightening.
I don't think Baker is a terrible player, I just think he's limited and probably isn't good enough to be a 35-40 game regular for a team aiming for the top 2 in this league.
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I think he's had a decent season overall. We looked a lot more solid when he was in the side alongside Chester.
I agree, mainly because it put Chester in between Hutton and Baker and he used his experience to get them into better positions, didn't help Amavi though (who also has positional problems but is much younger). Amavi looked good earlier in the season when Chester was playing left-sided centre back but the Hutton-Elphick combo on the right was frightening.
I don't think Baker is a terrible player, I just think he's limited and probably isn't good enough to be a 35-40 game regular for a team aiming for the top 2 in this league.
I don't agree with that, however I don't believe he's capable of staying injury free for 35-40 games and we should be looking for someone that is.
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if we have ambition, then yes upgrade , but we need to dominate games and therefore surely Lansbury and Hourihan need to up their games no?
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Baker is an honest and brave player but his distribution is truly appalling. We certainly need another centre half to bolster the squad. I see Baker as having an important role in the squad but he really needs to address the number of unforced errors he makes. Baker is not alone this season in terms of such errors brut I an not convinced he has the concentration levels to do this. Would be great if he was part of a Villa promotion team since his commitment is certainly not in question.
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He can't be a starter next season if we have any ambition to get promoted.
And he isn't fit enough to be a reliable third choice either with all his injuries. Brave lad but spends far too much time on the ground.
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Baker still flatters to deceive for me. He's very good in the air (as he should be for his height), but still very flat-footed and slow on the turn. He always looks vulnerable when a player runs at him with the ball, or looks to make a run behind him without it.
As others have said, he's comfortably good enough as a 3rd choice for where we are now, but I'd hope that we'd be looking for a better regular partner for Chester for next season. Somebody like Curtis Davies would be ideal in my opinion and, if Hull go down, may well be gettable.
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the same Curtis Davies that we bought for about £20m and sold for a fiver?
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Baker still flatters to deceive for me. He's very good in the air (as he should be for his height), but still very flat-footed and slow on the turn. He always looks vulnerable when a player runs at him with the ball, or looks to make a run behind him without it.
As others have said, he's comfortably good enough as a 3rd choice for where we are now, but I'd hope that we'd be looking for a better regular partner for Chester for next season. Somebody like Curtis Davies would be ideal in my opinion and, if Hull go down, may well be gettable.
I don't understand the (over) use of this phrase. Baker is what he is, a no nonsense blood and guts centre half. He doesn't pretend to be Frank Beckenbauer or Rio Ferdinand. He may not be as good as we want but there's no flattering - he always does his best and if that isn't what we want/need then that's another matter.
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baker's a great central defender against someone like Andy carroll. I'd keep him around just for that reason. But he does need replacing.
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He's very good in the air (as he should be for his height)
How many goals has he scored? A central defender who's very good in the air should be scoring 5 a season. Nathan Baker has scored two in his entire career.
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He's very good in the air (as he should be for his height)
How many goals has he scored? A central defender who's very good in the air should be scoring 5 a season. Nathan Baker has scored two in his entire career.
He's got a Kryton head though.
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Frank Beckenbauer???
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Baker still flatters to deceive for me. He's very good in the air (as he should be for his height), but still very flat-footed and slow on the turn. He always looks vulnerable when a player runs at him with the ball, or looks to make a run behind him without it.
As others have said, he's comfortably good enough as a 3rd choice for where we are now, but I'd hope that we'd be looking for a better regular partner for Chester for next season. Somebody like Curtis Davies would be ideal in my opinion and, if Hull go down, may well be gettable.
I don't understand the (over) use of this phrase. Baker is what he is, a no nonsense blood and guts centre half. He doesn't pretend to be Frank Beckenbauer or Rio Ferdinand. He may not be as good as we want but there's no flattering - he always does his best and if that isn't what we want/need then that's another matter.
There is neither flattery nor deception. There is blood, guts, determination and the much derided ability to follow directions.
He is what he is, and shall be none other and that is the fact of the matter.
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and you can colour that any way you like.
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and you can colour that any way you like.
I colour it claret
And then also blue
And a bite of a carrot
Which is more than he'll chew
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And if you threw a brick at him
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True dat.
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Baker still flatters to deceive for me. He's very good in the air (as he should be for his height), but still very flat-footed and slow on the turn. He always looks vulnerable when a player runs at him with the ball, or looks to make a run behind him without it.
As others have said, he's comfortably good enough as a 3rd choice for where we are now, but I'd hope that we'd be looking for a better regular partner for Chester for next season. Somebody like Curtis Davies would be ideal in my opinion and, if Hull go down, may well be gettable.
I don't understand the (over) use of this phrase. Baker is what he is, a no nonsense blood and guts centre half. He doesn't pretend to be Frank Beckenbauer or Rio Ferdinand. He may not be as good as we want but there's no flattering - he always does his best and if that isn't what we want/need then that's another matter.
There is neither flattery nor deception. There is blood, guts, determination and the much derided ability to follow directions.
He is what he is, and shall be none other and that is the fact of the matter.
Which leads to him being helped off the pitch on a pretty regular basis.
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Supposedly having a medical at Bristol City this morning
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Supposedly having a medical at Bristol City this morning
wow, I find that surprising. He's not good enough for Prem but perfectly adequate for the next season.
Is Alex Bruce about to join us?
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Very surprising.
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I am not happy if that is the case. We are leaving ourselves a bit light outside of the wasters we don't want playing for us in the centre of defence.
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Disappointed to see him go. But Bristol more his level. Defence was good last year but partially because Bruce played midfield deep. Hoping for a more expansive style this year and think that would show up his limitations more
Does leave us looking light for cover - though maybe Bruce thinks Jedinak can routinely do that
Hoping Richards remains well down pecking order
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Don't quite understand this one unless they just can't get rid of Richards and need somebody off the wage bill/transfer funds in. Maybe Bruce thinks some combination of Bree, De Laet, Jedinak, Richards as 4th choice is enough (assuming Elphick leaves).
Also probably suggests Amavi isn't going anywhere as Baker (and De Laet to a lesser degree) would probably be cover for Taylor
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I do think Baker probably instigated this. He seemed to be in Bruce's thoughts if the Mail are to be believed
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Glad he's off. Let's face it for most of his time here he's been a car crash player.
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Supposedly having a medical at Bristol City this morning
wow, I find that surprising. He's not good enough for Prem but perfectly adequate for the next season.
Is Alex Bruce about to join us?
Could be a few reasons I suppose. If he is looking for defenders who can play out from the back, then it wouldn't be so much of a surprise that Baker is being moved on. Also, he might feel that one of the younger players is a better bet than Baker.
That leaves us with Chester, Terry, Samba, possibly Jedinak and some kids though, so I would have thought he might have to look to bring another defender in.
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There goes one of our 3 songs
Disclaimer - I know we have loads more, but we don't sing 'em!
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If we're really bringing the squad down to 20 seniors I'm not sure we will bring a CB in
Definitely suggests we're not going 3 at the back though
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He's been playing first team football for a couple of seasons now i doubt he'd want to be on the bench at his age when he could walk into another lower table Championship team.
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There goes one of our 3 songs
Disclaimer - I know we have loads more, but we don't sing 'em!
Every cloud has a silver lining ...
He is a pretty limited player: it's the absence of tailormade cover for Terry (which the left-footed Baker provides) that I find surprising. We certainly won't miss his dreadful distribution and poor set-piece scoring record.
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We have signed two centre backs which must tell him where he sits in the pecking order.
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I doubt he was one of those ear marked to move on, therefore I expect Bruce to bring someone in as cover - unless anyone can enlighten me on any of the younger lads in the squad?
Ignore me - I forgot about Samba! Sorry
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Amavi falling through probably means we need to raise ££ elsewhere - either for new signings or FFP
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as long as Elphick joins him
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as long as Elphick joins him
And Richards - I've seen nothing to suggest that he anything other than a liability; rehabilitation or not.
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He doesn't want to be a backup CB at 26 is what I'm gathering from the articles etc. Bruce clearly planned to keep him as saw him as potential LB cover.
Think this will see Jedinak being looked at as CB cover again now
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He'll be no loss.
Yes, this is his level but he's average, even at this level, and at 26 he's not going to get any better. So on the basis we now have two better first choices in Terry and Chester it should be an idea opportunity to bring some of the kids through.
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While he looked a little bit better at this level defensively his distribution is still shocking, that's why he's way down the pecking order.
He won't be much of a loss.
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Let's face it, last season he was first choice with Chester. This season he'd be behind Terry and ow Samba is around and playing well too it's so much harder. He clearly wants first team football.
Wish him all the best but he was never going to be remembered as one of our better players.
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Cost Us too many points with wreckless mistakes.....Good Bye & Good Luck
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Bree can also play CB, so we have cover. He's an ok player, and he'll probably get hurt during the medical. I can see Elphick and Richards gone too this summer, and we might bring someone else in. Plus Suliman is developing well.
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Moving him on is the sensible option just not quite good enough at left back or centre back. Best of Luck magic hat
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Moving him on is sensible because even if he got rid of the defensive errors you've still got a player who has appalling technique and, more than anyone, forces our midfield to play deep so he isn't just lumping it forward.
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Gone to Bristol City, according to Pravda.
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He doesn't want to be a backup CB at 26 is what I'm gathering from the articles etc. Bruce clearly planned to keep him as saw him as potential LB cover.
Think this will see Jedinak being looked at as CB cover again now
Which is fair enough and if he can keep clear of injuries, he should have solid enough career in the Championship. Frustrated me a lot, but I wish him all the best.
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Gone to Bristol City, according to Pravda.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2017/07/28/transfer-news-baker-joins-bristol-city
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No great loss, a complete clown in possession and positionally. Also the very definition of sick note.
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Disappointed by this because I think he's decent defender at this level but I can understand why he'd want to move on. The best of luck to him.
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Nathan Baker < John Terry
Nathan Baker < Chris Samba
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I liked his commitment but closed my eyes whenever he went into a challenge. If I opened my eyes and he was still on the pitch as opposed to going off injured or being sent off I was relieved.
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He either gets injured at crucial times or has one calamity of a mistake in a game. I'm all for having him as fourth choice but I doubt that's what he wants at the age of 26.
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He doesn't want to be a backup CB at 26 is what I'm gathering from the articles etc. Bruce clearly planned to keep him as saw him as potential LB cover.
Think this will see Jedinak being looked at as CB cover again now
Pretty much the same reason Cahill left, but unlike Cahill I can't see us regretting it when he becomes an international and wins trophies elsewhere. Good luck to him.
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Any idea on the fee?
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I like him and wish him all the best. Also worries me a tad that our main CB options currently are Chester, 2 blokes that have hardly played for a year, Elpick and Richards.
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Good luck Nathan. And I'm guessing we cannot move that monumental Cnut Richards on because of his gross affront to humanity wages.
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I like him and wish him all the best. Also worries me a tad that our main CB options currently are Chester, 2 blokes that have hardly played for a year, Elpick and Richards.
Agree with this, always gave everything but limited
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I like him and wish him all the best. Also worries me a tad that our main CB options currently are Chester, 2 blokes that have hardly played for a year, Elpick and Richards.
My thoughts exactly. It's a tad risky going all in on players who are undoubtedly very good on their day but age and previous injuries could be our undoing. For me Baker was a good back up plan. I always thought that he gave his all for the cause. Got injured quite a bit. Committed silly fouls from time to time but he never left anything in the dressing room. And that's what I like about him. Good luck Nathan and don't forget your roots next time you play against the Villa 😉
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Any idea on the fee?
Looking on a couple of Bristol City forums they're all floating around £2m, Not sure where they've got it from though.
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There is no way I would've let Baker when the Bombscare and Fatty are still around. He may have his limitations but compared to the other two....ye gods.
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Any idea on the fee?
Looking on a couple of Bristol City forums they're all floating around £2m, Not sure where they've got it from though.
Depending on how long he has left on his contract, that seems a bit low.
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The fee is £4m.
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£4m seems about right. Maybe £5m but not far off and it's one off the books. Next.
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Villa fans on social media seem to be having a right proper meltdown over this. It's Nathan Baker right? Been promising for four years, brave as a lion, king of the last ditch challenge (normally due to his poor positioning in the first place) but ulitmately never fulfilled his promise and a limited all round player.
It would have been interesting to see if he benefitted to a year under Terry, but if ulimtately he instigated this and we're getting decent money, then it's a no-brainer to maove him on.
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Nathan BakerVerified account @Bakesy23 17m17 minutes ago
A massive thank you to @AVFCOfficial and the Fans for all the support you have given me during my time at the club! THANK YOU! 🦁 🎩 #AVFC
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Further to my point above....I would, like any sane individual, have massively preferred to shift Richards out though!
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He had a good spell there on loan. Bristol wanted him last season but he thought he could push on with Villa. With Terry coming in, he sees his opportunities limited and wants first team football. With Bristol coming back again for him, it's a good move at his age. I have always had reservations about him at Villa but wish him all the best.
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£4m is a good deal, when you think we have replaced him with a better player on free (Samba) and possibly a net drop on the wage bill.
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I think he is a decent player at this level and I was a bit shocked, but if he wants first team football, then I can understand why they've let him go. £4 million is a good fee and he's distribution is poor and laboured, so I have to agree with some of the comments regarding him technically.
Terry, Chester, Jedinak, Samba enough?
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I liked his commitment but closed my eyes whenever he went into a challenge. If I opened my eyes and he was still on the pitch as opposed to going off injured or being sent off I was relieved.
I did the same but stopped as the vision that came into my head was of a White Walker coming into contact with Dragon Glass.
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Strange sale on the face of it, get in two players coming to the end of their careers and let the promising, but inconsistent Baker go.
Good luck to the lad.
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Baker said in his BCFC interview "it was an easy decision leaving."
See you then.
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£4m looks much more like it, happy with that.
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Shall we run a sweepstake on which minute he limps off in during his debut for them?
I'll bagsy the 26th minute.
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I think he is a decent player at this level and I was a bit shocked, but if he wants first team football, then I can understand why they've let him go. £4 million is a good fee and he's distribution is poor and laboured, so I have to agree with some of the comments regarding him technically.
Terry, Chester, Jedinak, Samba enough?
I would want to see some kind of succession planning to be honest Ads as three out of those four haven't got too many miles left on the clock.
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Strange sale on the face of it, get in two players coming to the end of their careers and let the promising, but inconsistent Baker go.
Good luck to the lad.
Surely we can't still call him promising at 26.
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Shall we run a sweepstake on which minute he limps off in during his debut for them?
I'll bagsy the 26th minute.
John Terry can race him for the guard of honour....
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Good luck Nathan.
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Strange sale on the face of it, get in two players coming to the end of their careers and let the promising, but inconsistent Baker go.
Good luck to the lad.
Surely we can't still call him promising at 26.
OK, improving then.
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Baker said in his BCFC interview "it was an easy decision leaving."
See you then.
Probably knowing he's behind Elphick, Samba and Richards, no wonder he felt it an easy decision.
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Bizarre. He's a solid, fairly reliable defender, especially in this league.
Why haven't we dumped Samba, Elphick and Richards instead?
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I'm surprised he has been sold, I thought he had a decent 16/17 season and ahead of Elphick and Richards.
If we sell Tommy and Richards and spend the money on a better player though it could be good business.
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Not a good Move by us IMO. Leaves us too short as I wouldn't be shocked if samba and Terry have lengthy spells out.
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I presume Elphick will still go
Nobody will pay Richards what he's on here
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I presume Elphick will still go
Nobody will pay Richards what he's on here
True, Richards knows he won't get the same wage elsewhere.
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So long and good luck, Nathan. Always tried his best for us and improved massively last season.
I expect we will give him a good reception when we visit Ashton Gate.
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Bakers not even young but hes still 10 younger than his replacements
anyone thinking the cruise liner Samba will fill his spot on the basis of a couple of decent starts against no bodies i think might be disapointed,
he's another Richards who also started well and looked the part for a few games before he reverted to shite
and Terry is an old age pensioner in footballing terms
Bruces Dads army, his whole reign is/will be a fucking disaster
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Quite surprised by this. Good luck Nathan, although not against us.
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That's the spirit
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Bakers not even young but hes still 10 younger than his replacements
anyone thinking the cruise liner Samba will fill his spot on the basis of a couple of decent starts against no bodies i think might be disapointed,
he's another Richards who also started well and looked the part for a few games before he reverted to shite
and Terry is an old age pensioner in footballing terms
Bruces Dads army, his whole reign is/will be a fucking disaster
that's the spirit! :p
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That's the spirit
is that the online equivalent of jinx?
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I liked his commitment but closed my eyes whenever he went into a challenge. If I opened my eyes and he was still on the pitch as opposed to going off injured or being sent off I was relieved.
I did the same but stopped as the vision that came into my head was of a White Walker coming into contact with Dragon Glass.
Very good!
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Strange sale on the face of it, get in two players coming to the end of their careers and let the promising, but inconsistent Baker go.
Good luck to the lad.
Surely we can't still call him promising at 26.
OK, improving then.
Is he? I saw nothing to suggest his positional sense or distribution was any better last year. The standard being worse than previous years meant he got punished less for these flaws but they're still there and I can't see them going away now.
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Glad to see him gone. Though last season he wasn't as bad as he normally was he's still not first team material in my opinion. In fact one of the main reasons we were relegated was because we either signed players as limited as Baker or promoted them from the youth system. In probably any other Villa era a player as limited as he would never have got anywhere near the first team at Villa or would have played a few games then quickly moved on. Then there's his injury problems...
Saying that though he always tried his best, so good luck to him.
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Like Hutton people always seem to willing to overlook the bad bits of his game because he was a trier. We need to get over that and start expecting technical competence from the whole squad as a minimum.
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At least he'll help us with a few tickets for Ashton Gate.
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Good luck Nathan. You had the bloody awful luck of being in some shit teams.
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Bizarre. He's a solid, fairly reliable defender, especially in this league.
Why haven't we dumped Samba, Elphick and Richards instead?
Samba joined 10 days ago, at least give him a chance to outlast Unsworth before casting him on the rubbish tip that's accumulating in Sparkhill currently.
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Good luck Nathan. You had the bloody awful luck of being in some shit teams.
Yeah and he was one of the reasons we had so many shit teams.
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Like Hutton people always seem to willing to overlook the bad bits of his game because he was a trier. We need to get over that and start expecting technical competence from the whole squad as a minimum.
As a third or fourth choice CB he was fine, especially at this level. You could flip what you said and say that people tend to overlook that 3rd/4th choice players at a Championship club are hardly going to be top players.
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Good luck Nathan. You had the bloody awful luck of being in some shit teams.
Yeah and he was one of the reasons we had so many shit teams.
Lets get it right ....we had a solid defence last season in the Championship ....had we have had goals in us we may not still be here
Baker was a solid performer who at this level is fine .....I would rather have him at the club than Richards but nobody will buy him
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The difference between Nathan Baker and players like Richards, Lescott, Agbonlahor, Elphick and co. was that he always tried and did his best. He is not a gifted player but he is an honest one. If we had had another ten with his bravery and commitment we would not have stunk out the Premiership. Perhaps we would have gone down but as the laughing stocks we became.
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The difference between Nathan Baker and players like Richards, Lescott, Agbonlahor, Elphick and co. was that he always tried and did his best. He is not a gifted player but he is an honest one. If we had had another ten with his bravery and commitment we would not have stunk out the Premiership. Perhaps we would have gone down but as the laughing stocks we became.
I'd agree with that.
Unfortunately Baker's abilities were epitomised by his last couple of appearances.
An otherwise solid performance at Blackburn ruined by the mistake for their goal and a rash challenge leading to his sending off against Brighton.
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Fitting his last action in a Villa shirt was to get turned, turn slower than the apparent cruise liners that have replaced him and proceed to give both a penalty away and get sent off.
You always felt he had that in him.
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Banned for the first three games! I hope we got a good price for him. Very average player whether he tried hard or not. I think him going answers the question about us playing three at the back.
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Annoyed by this. Can't believe we have sold him.
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Banned for the first three games! I hope we got a good price for him. Very average player whether he tried hard or not. I think him going answers the question about us playing three at the back.
It was a 1 game ban.
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If he had been able to play alongside Laursen, Mellberg, McGrath, Southgate, Ugo or Cahill he would probably have learned his trade better and not made so many stupid mistakes.
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Only 1 game? Really? Ok, I hadn't realized that as it was a straight red?
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Good luck to him - not a great player by any stretch of the imagination but tried his best which is a step up on or two others still stinking out the dressing room at Villa Park.
If we got a few quid for him then it might be a good bit of business as he is no more than 4th choice behind Terry, Chester and Samba now
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According to the FA it's 1.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/discipline/suspensions
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Surprised to see him go but if we've got the reported 4m then we've done OK.
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Only 1 game? Really? Ok, I hadn't realized that as it was a straight red?
3 game ban is for violent conduct or what is considered 'serious foul play' although the FA's attitude to Villa in recent years has allowed this to become more 'fluid' - see Bacuna's 6 game ban last season.
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And Keith Wyness 's ten grand fine and month ban for commenting indirectly on the useless tosser of a referee in the Brighton game. One level of punishment for Aston Villa another for everybody else.
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Hard working defender but I wouldn't think he'd be near the first team now.
He's always going to pick up a injury too.
Good luck.
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Good luck Nathan.
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Bruces Dads army, his whole reign is/will be a fucking disaster
Cheer up John, he'll be gone one way or another in the next 9 months.
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Bizarre. He's a solid, fairly reliable defender, especially in this league.
Why haven't we dumped Samba, Elphick and Richards instead?
I'd have kept him too. No problems with Samba but Elphick we don't need and as for Richards. Total twat.
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Like Hutton people always seem to willing to overlook the bad bits of his game because he was a trier. We need to get over that and start expecting technical competence from the whole squad as a minimum.
As a third or fourth choice CB he was fine, especially at this level. You could flip what you said and say that people tend to overlook that 3rd/4th choice players at a Championship club are hardly going to be top players.
I agree, but if you get an offer of £4m for him and you have a squad as big as ours it's no great loss.
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Good luck to a decent committed player. Terry, Chester, Samba, Jedinak, Bree. It was the right decision.
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If nothing else it means the very real prospect of Bruce playing him at left back has gone.
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I'm sure he wanted the move. But one wonders whether a season learning from Terry etc would have done him the world of good. We'll never know.
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Why are people considering Jedinak and Bree as replacement central defenders? Neither are that. Surely one of the reserve/youth players would be next up when we get an injury or ban to Terry,Chester or Samba.
Unless this signals 4-4-2 will be the formation of choice.
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Why are people considering Jedinak and Bree as replacement central defenders? Neither are that. Surely one of the reserve/youth players would be next up when we get an injury or ban to Terry,Chester or Samba.
Unless this signals 4-4-2 will be the formation of choice.
You forgot to add "in my opinion ".
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It's a forum.That's generally a given.
In my opinion.
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If true I'm surprised Brizzle have that type of money to spend on a centre back. I guess it works-out at £7m + Baker for Kodjia which seems pretty decent for us.
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Would I be right in thinking their owner is pretty rich?
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It's a forum.That's generally a given.
In my opinion.
I have seen Jedinak play very comfortably in that gap between the two full backs. It may have something to do with the fact he rarely loses an aerial battle. We could get rid of mad Tom and the dough boy and still have enough cover. As for the kids, I can't comment yet.
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Always prone to making mistakes, gifting a goal or getting injured. No great loss but I wish him all the best with his move.
We've signed Terry and Samba who are both better players than Baker so I'm struggling to see how this weakens us defensively...would prefer to get rid of Richards and Elphick (hopefully one of them will still go) but this is still an upgrade on last seasons squad.
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Would be interesting to see if Elphick or somehow some chump takes Richards off our hands. Then we definitely are light there. Sadly probably means they both are staying
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Would be interesting to see if Elphick or somehow some chump takes Richards off our hands. Then we definitely are light there. Sadly probably means they both are staying
At least 1 of them will go. If both went I think we'd get a young replacement or try to bring Bedeau/Suliman into the mix.
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Good luck Nathan.
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Would be interesting to see if Elphick or somehow some chump takes Richards off our hands. Then we definitely are light there. Sadly probably means they both are staying
At least 1 of them will go. If both went I think we'd get a young replacement or try to bring Bedeau/Suliman into the mix.
Suliman was utterly shit on loan at Cheltenham.
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Suliman the Not So Magnificent then.
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Good luck Nathan.
Has he passed his medical?
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Good luck Nathan.
Has he passed his medical?
Yes. But then injured himself stretching the shirt for promotional snaps.
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Good luck Nathan!!! Shame you've gone and chancers like Richards, bacuna and Gabby are still at the club.
I believe Gabby is in the last year of his contract, a prime time for somebody to come in for normal players and get a bargain, but not Gabby!!! The fact nobody (as far as I'm aware) has even tried says a lot!
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I thought he had a decent season last year and would've had plenty of games this year as obviously Terry and Samba are going to come out of the team on occasions.
Can understand the need to balance the books but I'd have rather kept Baker than Elphick.
Wonder if we tried to get Aiden Flint in a swop? We were linked to him earlier in the summer.
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I thought Baker was a decent squad player, a little error prone but less so than Clark used to be and waya less than Elphick and Richards currently are. Not great with the ball at his feet or positionally but was pretty dominant aerially and very committed. Not devastated to see him leave but not chuffed either.
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If we have got £4m for him, then well done villa, I've said it previously on here, he tries hard but is too prone to errors, was always lucky not to give penalties away as he dived in too much
But, I wish him well in his future career as he did always put the effort in for our club
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in my opinion the wrong decision.
Should have kept him as number 3 choice centre back behind Terry and Chester, ahead of Samba.
My only guess is that its to balance the books as we cant get rid of others who can fill the same slot.
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I wish Nathan Baker well at Bristol City. Injuries aside, we've let a player go who was willing to put his body on the line and would put his head in where the boots were flying.
Unlike that clown Richards who wouldn't cross the road to benefit Aston Villa.
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The fee is £4m.
Whats the source?
Both clubs saying undisclosed
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All the best Nathan. Incredibly poor defender for us until last season, when I thought he had quite a good season. He would probably have now been fourth choice CB and probably didn't want to be. If I'm being totally honest I'm not sad he's been sold especially if we got £4m.
Looks like 4 at the back next season then.
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in my opinion the wrong decision.
Should have kept him as number 3 choice centre back behind Terry and Chester,ahead of Samba.
My only guess is that its to balance the books as we cant get rid of others who can fill the same slot.
I like Nathan for all the same reasons as a few have stated. I also realise we haven't seen too much of Samba yet but what I have seen is very encouraging. This fit, motivated Samba looks very impressive. I hope he has a big role to play in a crucial season.
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Why are people considering Jedinak and Bree as replacement central defenders? Neither are that. Surely one of the reserve/youth players would be next up when we get an injury or ban to Terry,Chester or Samba.
Unless this signals 4-4-2 will be the formation of choice.
You forgot to add "in my opinion ".
Jedinak at least had a few minutes at centre back last season, but why has Bree started appearing on lists of hypothetical options?
I don't think he ever played there for Barnsley and all the talk is that it's his crossing that is his biggest strength.
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He may not have wanted to stay, being 3rd or even 4th choice.
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I'm beginning to think we haven't really addressed last season's problems with an ageing and slow back line, how are we going to be able to play further up the pitch in a dynamic way? Will Kodja be next out of the door in order for us to pay Gabby Richards Terry Samba's et
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I wish Nathan Baker well at Bristol City. Injuries aside, we've let a player go who was willing to put his body on the line and would put his head in where the boots were flying.
Unlike that clown Richards who wouldn't cross the road to benefit Aston Villa.
I second that emotion.
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Why are people considering Jedinak and Bree as replacement central defenders? Neither are that. Surely one of the reserve/youth players would be next up when we get an injury or ban to Terry,Chester or Samba.
Unless this signals 4-4-2 will be the formation of choice.
You forgot to add "in my opinion ".
Jedinak at least had a few minutes at centre back last season, but why has Bree started appearing on lists of hypothetical options?
I don't think he ever played there for Barnsley and all the talk is that it's his crossing that is his biggest strength.
It's a bit more than hypothetical given he is a defender in a squad of hopefully around 25 players. If he is around our 5th -6th option in that position perhaps you can hypothesise how vital he will be in that position over a long season or why it still isn't good practice to try and offload Baker, Elphwick, Richards or any else who can balance the books without too much affect.
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The difference between Nathan Baker and players like Richards, Lescott, Agbonlahor, Elphick and co. was that he always tried and did his best. He is not a gifted player but he is an honest one. If we had had another ten with his bravery and commitment we would not have stunk out the Premiership. Perhaps we would have gone down but as the laughing stocks we became.
But having a team packed out with players as shite as him WAS the reason we went down.
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Good luck Nathan I hope you keep on improving and become a great centre back and if you do I will stand there and applaud you. As for us we have signed a few has beens so we should be ok :'(
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Sad to see him go, would of had him as first choice back up Chester and Terry.
8 years since he made his debut, which these days is a long time with one club.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
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Good luck to him, not a terrible player in this league. Shame we couldn't get rid of Richards and Elphick first.
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Thank You Nathan, Good Luck
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Sad to see him go, would of had him as first choice back up Chester and Terry.
8 years since he made his debut, which these days is a long time with one club.
As I said earlier, in practically any other Villa era he'd have been shipped out to the lower leagues after a handful of first team appearances (if he could even manage that) when we realised he wasn't good enough for this club, but sadly in the second half of the Lerner era we continued to sell our best players and filled the squad with players who weren't fit for purpose. Baker was one of the players who relegated us with some pitiful defensive displays. Good riddance to him.
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It's always sad to see a Youth Team graduate leave, especially one who's always seemingly had an excellent attitude and desire to play for the club. He had a pretty decent season last year. However, he kind of found his level last season, in a team that finished 13th in The Championship. If the fee is £4m, or even close, it's too good to turn down, given where we are.
I genuinely wish him all the best, but think this is the best option for all parties.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
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Good luck to him but for me just one of a number of players not good enough for us 5-6 years ago to whose standard we have sunk to.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
Damned with faint praise I think.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
I don't rate him. Destined for Northampton town (or Real Madrid given my eye for a player).
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
I don't rate him. Destined for Northampton town (or Real Madrid given my eye for a player).
Sadly I fear you're right. He looks far too lightweight to make it to me.
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All the best Nathan - One of ours that always gave his all for whoever he was playing. Accusations of being injury prone are not borne out by the last 2 seasons in which he played 40 games for Bristol City in 2015/16 and 36 games for us last season where he did not start as 1st choice intil well into the season.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
I don't rate him. Destined for Northampton town (or Real Madrid given my eye for a player).
I've never seen him play, but given what a few respected posters have said about him on here I'm surprised to see he keeps playing for England for his age group.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
Damned with faint praise I think.
Not really. The vast majority of team didn't have an ounce of spirit or fight in them. Whatever his limitations are, they're two things that you can't accuse Baker of.
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Agreed.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
Damned with faint praise I think.
Not really. The vast majority of team didn't have an ounce of spirit or fight in them. Whatever his limitations are, they're two things that you can't accuse Baker of.
Fight and spirit mean precious little when you can barely find a team mate with a pass.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
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I was staggered when I saw him in the England set-up and then saw him play. I was staggered he wasn't hauled off in every game and staggered he played the whole tournament - scoring a goal in the final.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
Damned with faint praise I think.
Not really. The vast majority of team didn't have an ounce of spirit or fight in them. Whatever his limitations are, they're two things that you can't accuse Baker of.
Fight and spirit mean precious little when you can barely find a team mate with a pass.
I'm not disagreeing with that point. Just taking exception to you accusing him of contributing towards our relegation season, when he wasn't even part of the squad.
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I wish Nathan Baker well at Bristol City. Injuries aside, we've let a player go who was willing to put his body on the line and would put his head in where the boots were flying.
Unlike that clown Richards who wouldn't cross the road to benefit Aston Villa.
I second that emotion.
But Brucey said that Micah is great around the place.
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I wish Nathan Baker well at Bristol City. Injuries aside, we've let a player go who was willing to put his body on the line and would put his head in where the boots were flying.
Unlike that clown Richards who wouldn't cross the road to benefit Aston Villa.
I second that emotion.
But Brucey said that Micah is great around the place.
It's true, he brings fresh cut flowers in every day along with homemade cupcakes (to die for), and he's done the whole canteen out in a Cath Kidson-esque, shabby chic vibe.
On Satudays he finally gets to put his feet up.
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I wish Nathan Baker well at Bristol City. Injuries aside, we've let a player go who was willing to put his body on the line and would put his head in where the boots were flying.
Unlike that clown Richards who wouldn't cross the road to benefit Aston Villa.
I second that emotion.
But Brucey said that Micah is great around the place.
Exactly. So is Doris the tea lady. Get her signed up on 5k a week before her jovial impact is lost to us.
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I was staggered when I saw him in the England set-up and then saw him play. I was staggered he wasn't hauled off in every game and staggered he played the whole tournament - scoring a goal in the final.
I bet you are staggered at Gary Cahill? Another one who was considered lightweight to be a good central defender.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
Eh...based on the facts that he is highly rated by our staff and England set up and was part of the team that won a World Cup.
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I was staggered when I saw him in the England set-up and then saw him play. I was staggered he wasn't hauled off in every game and staggered he played the whole tournament - scoring a goal in the final.
I bet you are staggered at Gary Cahill? Another one who was considered lightweight to be a good central defender.
No, he looked athletic, pacy, and decent in the air. Sulaiman looks slow and easily beaten in the air and on the ground.
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Also, is he the first English professional called Jesus to play in the top 4 divisions?
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
Eh...based on the facts that he is highly rated by out staff, England set up and was part of the team that won a World Cup.
Youth players are an enigma. They are slow burners and disappointing let downs. The Moores, Vassell, Shaw, Brian McClair, Hendrie, Grealish. Who the fUck knows? Most of it is in their head.
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Youth players are an enigma. They are slow burners and disappointing let downs. The Moores, Vassell, Shaw, Brian McClair, Hendrie, Grealish. Who the fUck knows? Most of it is in their head.
Totally agree with that but we do need to promote and push them and give them a chance.
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Youth players are an enigma. They are slow burners and disappointing let downs. The Moores, Vassell, Shaw, Brian McClair, Hendrie, Grealish. Who the fUck knows? Most of it is in their head.
Totally agree with that but we do need to promote and push them and give them a chance.
Absolutely Olaftab. Tony has it spot on. Assemble a compact squad supplemented by young talent. It gives us the opportunity to build an esprit de corps while telling Richards, Elphick, McCormack and too many others to get fucked.
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I think Nathan Baker had the misfortune of breaking though in a poor Villa team, who were on the way down. He had no mentor, so to speak.
He had the makings of a potential international. Remember he was a big success at u21 level.
Imagine if he'd have had a McGrath, Lausen, Southgate or Evans to bring him into the first team?
All the best Bakes.
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Was he? He was only capped 3 times at U21 level. I agree with the rest though, we haven't really had anyone for years that in any position you you feel will have been helping younger players coming through or new signings. One positive about Terry is I hope he helps players.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
Damned with faint praise I think.
Not really. The vast majority of team didn't have an ounce of spirit or fight in them. Whatever his limitations are, they're two things that you can't accuse Baker of.
Fight and spirit mean precious little when you can barely find a team mate with a pass.
I'm not disagreeing with that point. Just taking exception to you accusing him of contributing towards our relegation season, when he wasn't even part of the squad.
Fair enough, but for me he was part of our decline since 2010 and it irks me that players of his standard are still at the club.
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I think he's improving, but not quick enough. Could see him being a solid centre half for a newly promoted team nearing his 30's.
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I really wish Baker all the best in the future, he has done his best and unlike some alway has given his all. That said, I don't think he is going to improve that much now and he would be 3rd/possibly 4th choice at CB and probably wants regular football. His positional sense at times as we know was all over the place and his distribution aint the best. We won't be moaning next week anyway when we have Alex Bruce on board :-)
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Only reason we haven't announced Alex Bruce yet is because the club knows it will struggle to cope with the rush for ST and match tickets as soon as it's confirmed.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
Eh...based on the facts that he is highly rated by our staff and England set up and was part of the team that won a World Cup.
Highly rated by our staff means bugger all not forgetting he couldnt get in a team struggling at the arse end of league two
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Only reason we haven't announced Alex Bruce yet is because the club knows it will struggle to cope with the rush for ST and match tickets as soon as it's confirmed.
There is always the major coup (well actually there aint but we always live in hope) and this transfer window I envisage the Scottish nutter on sky sports news speculating on deadline day as to whether Villa have pulled off the coup, mainly cos Barnet and Luton have said feck off
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
Eh...based on the facts that he is highly rated by our staff and England set up and was part of the team that won a World Cup.
Highly rated by our staff means bugger all not forgetting he couldnt get in a team struggling at the arse end of league two
We've overrated our youth players at Villa for years now. Fans want them to be good (understandably) but sometimes you've got to admit they're just not up to it and let 'em go.
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It's a strange one this, must be a financial decision to balance the books. Given a chance I am sure we would rather be rid of Elphick and Richards. No decent money offered for either I would expect.
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It's a strange one this, must be a financial decision to balance the books. Given a chance I am sure we would rather be rid of Elphick and Richards. No decent money offered for either I would expect.
I'm pretty certain Elphick will be out of the door in the next few weeks. As for Richards, well he's on an absolute fortune here so it doesn't take a genius to work out no one out there would be willing to pay his wages.
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
Eh...based on the facts that he is highly rated by our staff and England set up and was part of the team that won a World Cup.
Highly rated by our staff means bugger all not forgetting he couldnt get in a team struggling at the arse end of league two
We've overrated our youth players at Villa for years now. Fans want them to be good (understandably) but sometimes you've got to admit they're just not up to it and let 'em go.
Not sure that's fair. I think we've been right to rate some of our youth players very highly - the Moores, Delfouneso, Grealish, for example, all looked sensational in their teens. Maybe it's our coaches we've overrated.
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I doubt he's on a fortune after relegation. Well not by football standards anyway. Main reason we can't shift him is he's so obviously shit no one is stupid enough to take him.
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Richards does appear to be a limpet.
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Richards took a 25% hit on his wage when we got relegated but would still be on a massive wage by championship standards. I was genuinely excited when we signed him, but he certainly don't have an appetite for busting a gut. The pathetic efforts in the tournament, he went for his first real challenge and was gone within 90 seconds. He was ok to mess around afterwards though in the celebrations afterwards. There is a talent in there, but he seems happy as he is
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One good thing that could emerge from this is more opportunity for Suliman who potentially is a very good CB.
Is he? Based on what?
Eh...based on the facts that he is highly rated by our staff and England set up and was part of the team that won a World Cup.
Highly rated by our staff means bugger all not forgetting he couldnt get in a team struggling at the arse end of league two
OK we employ muppets and England coaching staff are numpties and there is no need to give him a chance in the first team squad.
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I can't believe people are bleating over Baker leaving.
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I liked his attitude, unlike other players. He always gave 110% as Sir Ron said. The fact is he is a medium championship player at best IMO, probably says how we played last season. Is he better than Chester or Terry, ? Is he better than Samba? Debatable but I think Samba has a little more. So he has gone from being a regular to possibly 4th choice, he deserves to do the best for him perhaps? I like Nathan as he is whole hearted and he won me lots of money at Brighton at 100/1 first scorer, but I liked his attitude and hope others who follow him have the same attitude for us fans and the club
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Good luck to the big man. Great servant ! Good effort. I always appreciate his effort even if Bruce moving him on.
I take it baker passed the medical though!
I think injuries due to his frevious attitude in tackling hinder him. It will be strange seeing him lining up on 25th august against villa .
Thanks Nathan baker good luck in rest of career.
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Great attitude and in his day a very solid defender. I hope he continues to develop and do well. Except when he plays against us :)
Good luck Nathan you made a lot of friends at Aston Villa.
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Nobody is bleating about Nathan Baker leaving. Some of us are wishing him well and appreciating his efforts however less than perfect they may have been.
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I also wish him well. A decent quality premiership level centre back. Would have liked him to be in our squad next season. Won't be crying over it though.
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All the best, Baker. A decent professional.
Hopefully that tosspiece Richards will be out next. Him or the useless jersey royal in charge. Both in an ideal world.
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Axi, Jersey Royals are small and thin skinned.
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Axi, Jersey Royals are small and thin skinned.
and look good smothered with butter
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Good luck to him. He knew he wasn't going to be first choice so has decided to move on. Totally committed (if a little too much to his own detriment at times) but injury prone. I could never work out why he always tackled in that 'scissor type' action as it looked like it was never going to end up well.
The crowd liked him because he was wholehearted and he had a 'good' song which I always thought was a bit shit as they'd just nicked it off Leeds who sung it about Jansonn.
PS please don't celebrate when you undoubtedly score against us.
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SH is there any player in a Villa shirt from the relegation year you do not think is "shite"? Do you think they were all as bad as each other?
A small handful, but trust me, Baker wasn't one of them.
Am I missing something? Wasn't Baker out on loan (at Bristol City) during the relegation season...?
He more than played his part in the Villa's decline since 2010. Tried his best I'll give him that, but never good enough for the first team, and I'm glad he's gone.
Regardless, he wasn't part of the squad that relegated us and it's wholly unfair to tar him with that brush.
Damned with faint praise I think.
Not really. The vast majority of team didn't have an ounce of spirit or fight in them. Whatever his limitations are, they're two things that you can't accuse Baker of.
Fight and spirit mean precious little when you can barely find a team mate with a pass.
I'm not disagreeing with that point. Just taking exception to you accusing him of contributing towards our relegation season, when he wasn't even part of the squad.
Fair enough, but for me he was part of our decline since 2010 and it irks me that players of his standard are still at the club.
And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
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£9m in fees for Baker and Westwood. If we can get a few million for Elphick and something for Bacuna and Hutton then we are pulling pants down left right and center.
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't. In fact he's been absolute pants for the vast majority of time he's been here so good riddance.
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£9m in fees for Baker and Westwood. If we can get a few million for Elphick and something for Bacuna and Hutton then we are pulling pants down left right and center.
Yeah we did well getting fees for those two no marks.
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't. In fact he's been absolute pants for the vast majority of time he's been here so good riddance.
How many goals did he contribute towards the part of our decline?
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
A perfectly reasonable argument. If Baker had contributed similar displays at the back that Gabby had contributed in attack then maybe he'd be missed a bit more, but he hasn't. In fact for the vast majority of his time here he's been a bloody car crash of a player.
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Baker's fine, adequate, but he's not the next Cahill. If we don't get promotion next year I suspect it won't be for the lack of Baker.
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
A perfectly reasonable argument. If Baker had contributed similar displays at the back that Gabby had contributed in attack then maybe he'd be missed a bit more, but he hasn't. In fact for the vast majority of his time here he's been a bloody car crash of a player.
I'll ask you again. How many goals has Gabby scored though our decline of the past 5 years?
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
A perfectly reasonable argument. If Baker had contributed similar displays at the back that Gabby had contributed in attack then maybe he'd be missed a bit more, but he hasn't. In fact for the vast majority of his time here he's been a bloody car crash of a player.
I'll ask you again. How many goals has Gabby scored though our decline of the past 5 years?
No idea, but I'm not surprised his goals dried up once we started to sell the players who used to supply him with crosses that he used to thrive on. Unlike others though I haven't forgotten his contribution to Villa pre Lerner's sabotage of the club.
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
A perfectly reasonable argument. If Baker had contributed similar displays at the back that Gabby had contributed in attack then maybe he'd be missed a bit more, but he hasn't. In fact for the vast majority of his time here he's been a bloody car crash of a player.
I'll ask you again. How many goals has Gabby scored though our decline of the past 5 years?
No idea, but I'm not surprised his goals dried up once we started to sell the players who used to supply him with crosses that he used to thrive on. Unlike others though I haven't forgotten his contribution to Villa pre Lerner's sabotage of the club.
Just as I thought. Baker came through the Lerner era, so he was shit. Gabby didn't, so he was great. Predictable but not surprising.
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I can't believe people are bleating over Baker leaving.
It's more insurance. Chester and Baker as a combination was pretty good last season, they gelled well and plenty of clean sheets to back it up.
I doubt Terry will manage too many midweek games this season so Baker would've been a great option to come in and take over. Assume Samba fills that role now but not sure how well his fitness will hold up once the real stuff starts.
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I think Gabby played one or two matches before the Lerner era, though? I can't think of a single player who more symbolises that period in the club's history than him.
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Gabby actually had a decent season in 12/13 so going 5 years back makes his record look less pathetic. in the last 4 seasons he's played 109 games and scored 12 goals so just about 1 in 9. In that time he also rendered himself incapable of playing by becoming frighteningly over weight for someone employed as a professional athlete and that really should've been grounds for us to just cancel his contract.
Baker was poor but he never took the piss like that.
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
A perfectly reasonable argument. If Baker had contributed similar displays at the back that Gabby had contributed in attack then maybe he'd be missed a bit more, but he hasn't. In fact for the vast majority of his time here he's been a bloody car crash of a player.
I'll ask you again. How many goals has Gabby scored though our decline of the past 5 years?
No idea, but I'm not surprised his goals dried up once we started to sell the players who used to supply him with crosses that he used to thrive on. Unlike others though I haven't forgotten his contribution to Villa pre Lerner's sabotage of the club.
Just as I thought. Baker came through the Lerner era, so he was shit. Gabby didn't, so he was great. Predictable but not surprising.
No, he was a poor player because he was a poor player. The proof is in the pudding, unless you missed the last 7 humiliating years? I do remember you coming very late to the party regarding our decline though. You were right behind the "young and hungry" bullshit if I remember rightly.
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I can't believe people are bleating over Baker leaving.
It's more insurance. Chester and Baker as a combination was pretty good last season, they gelled well and plenty of clean sheets to back it up.
I doubt Terry will manage too many midweek games this season so Baker would've been a great option to come in and take over. Assume Samba fills that role now but not sure how well his fitness will hold up once the real stuff starts.
Not much insurance though when your insurance needs insurance himself. When you get offered £4m notes for someone like Baker, you snap their hands off.
We are a championship club struggling to meet FFP. We realistically can't have a £4m center back as 4th choice.
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Young and hungry = Cheap, crap that no ones ever heard of.
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I can't believe people are bleating over Baker leaving.
It's more insurance. Chester and Baker as a combination was pretty good last season, they gelled well and plenty of clean sheets to back it up.
I doubt Terry will manage too many midweek games this season so Baker would've been a great option to come in and take over. Assume Samba fills that role now but not sure how well his fitness will hold up once the real stuff starts.
Not much insurance though when your insurance needs insurance himself. When you get offered £4m notes for someone like Baker, you snap their hands off.
We are a championship club struggling to meet FFP. We realistically can't have a £4m center back as 4th choice.
Exactly. And he was a centreback who won't be missed either.
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And Gabby still is. That irks a lot of people as well.
And if Baker had scored more than 80 goals for us then maybe I'd have a bit of good will towards him as well, but he hasn't.
And what kind of argument is that considering Baker is a centre half?
A perfectly reasonable argument. If Baker had contributed similar displays at the back that Gabby had contributed in attack then maybe he'd be missed a bit more, but he hasn't. In fact for the vast majority of his time here he's been a bloody car crash of a player.
I'll ask you again. How many goals has Gabby scored though our decline of the past 5 years?
No idea, but I'm not surprised his goals dried up once we started to sell the players who used to supply him with crosses that he used to thrive on. Unlike others though I haven't forgotten his contribution to Villa pre Lerner's sabotage of the club.
Just as I thought. Baker came through the Lerner era, so he was shit. Gabby didn't, so he was great. Predictable but not surprising.
No, he was a poor player because he was a poor player. The proof is in the pudding, unless you missed the last 7 humiliating years? I do remember you coming very late to the party regarding our decline though. You were right behind the "young and hungry" bullshit if I remember rightly.
You can remember me coming ' very late into the party' as you call it but you can't remember how many goals Gabby has scored in the last 7 humiliating years? Hmm.
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Gabby actually had a decent season in 12/13 so going 5 years back makes his record look less pathetic. in the last 4 seasons he's played 109 games and scored 12 goals so just about 1 in 9. In that time he also rendered himself incapable of playing by becoming frighteningly over weight for someone employed as a professional athlete and that really should've been grounds for us to just cancel his contract.
Baker was poor but he never took the piss like that.
Still got a new 4 year contract in that time aswell!
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Like when Gabby scored 3 league goals when we still had Downing and Young? No one has forgotten his past contributions, but that's 6 or 7 years ago now. It seems a tad bizarre to have given Baker stick for his role in our relegation even though he was out on loan, and giving Gabby a pass despite him being too fat and unprofessional to be on the pitch half the time.
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I know he's scored over 80 goals for the club if that helps?
And yes I do remember how much you backed Lerner and his cronies while the club was being humiliated left right and centre. You were quite wrong weren't you?
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Like when Gabby scored 3 league goals when we still had Downing and Young? No one has forgotten his past contributions, but that's 6 or 7 years ago now. It seems a tad bizarre to have given Baker stick for his role in our relegation even though he was out on loan, and giving Gabby a pass despite him being too fat and unprofessional to be on the pitch half the time.
Haven't they? I don't see many references to his 80+ goals on here, only that he's a fat waste of space etc. It's tiresome really.
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Gabby actually had a decent season in 12/13 so going 5 years back makes his record look less pathetic. in the last 4 seasons he's played 109 games and scored 12 goals so just about 1 in 9. In that time he also rendered himself incapable of playing by becoming frighteningly over weight for someone employed as a professional athlete and that really should've been grounds for us to just cancel his contract.
Baker was poor but he never took the piss like that.
Well said. If the Club understood the feelings of many longstanding fans, he would have been out of the door the day the new owner walked in.
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And yes I do remember how much you backed Lerner and his cronies while the club was being humiliated left right and centre. You were quite wrong weren't you?
That's quite tiresome bringing that up to be honest. I think Agbonlahor is a fat waste of space. You're welcome.
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That's because he's spent most of the last 5 years being fat and shit. I don't see you saying much about the early positives under Lerner, only the latter parts as that's the most recent. People tend to focus on the most recent.
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That's because he's spent most of the last 5 years being fat and shit. I don't see you saying much about the early positives under Lerner, only the latter parts as that's the most recent. People tend to focus on the most recent.
The whole club has been a joke since 2010, Gabby included. His performances since he returned to the first team have been decent though and I think he deserves another chance especially considering what he's contributed to the club as a whole. I don't see why that is such a controversial attitude.
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And yes I do remember how much you backed Lerner and his cronies while the club was being humiliated left right and centre. You were quite wrong weren't you?
That's quite tiresome bringing that up to be honest. I think Agbonlahor is a fat waste of space. You're welcome.
Well if the truth touches a nerve and all that. You're welcome!
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He's crap though.
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That's because he's spent most of the last 5 years being fat and shit. I don't see you saying much about the early positives under Lerner, only the latter parts as that's the most recent. People tend to focus on the most recent.
The whole club has been a joke since 2010, Gabby included. His performances since he returned to the first team have been decent though and I think he deserves another chance especially considering what he's contributed to the club as a whole. I don't see why that is such a controversial attitude.
They have been and i've said so. His early years were good as well. Doesn't alter that for years he had an appalling and unprofessional attitude, which has contributed to where we are now.
In fact i'd say Gabby mirrors Lerner, looked good early on and gave us hope for a 'bright future' but turned into a disinterested twunt that fecked our club up.
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That's because he's spent most of the last 5 years being fat and shit. I don't see you saying much about the early positives under Lerner, only the latter parts as that's the most recent. People tend to focus on the most recent.
The whole club has been a joke since 2010, Gabby included. His performances since he returned to the first team have been decent though and I think he deserves another chance especially considering what he's contributed to the club as a whole. I don't see why that is such a controversial attitude.
They have been and i've said so. His early years were good as well. Doesn't alter that for years he had an appalling and unprofessional attitude, which has contributed to where we are now.
In fact i'd say Gabby mirrors Lerner, looked good early on and gave us hope for a 'bright future' but turned into a disinterested twunt that fecked our club up.
His attitude isn't shit now and hasn't been for a while now. A lot of fans refuse to see this though.
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That's because he's spent most of the last 5 years being fat and shit. I don't see you saying much about the early positives under Lerner, only the latter parts as that's the most recent. People tend to focus on the most recent.
The whole club has been a joke since 2010, Gabby included. His performances since he returned to the first team have been decent though and I think he deserves another chance especially considering what he's contributed to the club as a whole. I don't see why that is such a controversial attitude.
They have been and i've said so. His early years were good as well. Doesn't alter that for years he had an appalling and unprofessional attitude, which has contributed to where we are now.
In fact i'd say Gabby mirrors Lerner, looked good early on and gave us hope for a 'bright future' but turned into a disinterested twunt that fecked our club up.
His attitude isn't shit now and hasn't been for a while now. A lot of fans refuse to see this though.
Putting in the effort to be capable of playing (as he's contracted to do) after he got himself into a truly disgraceful state is the absolute minimum. If he starts scoring regularly (he should be capable of 15-20 in this league) then, and only then, will he deserve credit for turning himself around.
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That's because he's spent most of the last 5 years being fat and shit. I don't see you saying much about the early positives under Lerner, only the latter parts as that's the most recent. People tend to focus on the most recent.
The whole club has been a joke since 2010, Gabby included. His performances since he returned to the first team have been decent though and I think he deserves another chance especially considering what he's contributed to the club as a whole. I don't see why that is such a controversial attitude.
They have been and i've said so. His early years were good as well. Doesn't alter that for years he had an appalling and unprofessional attitude, which has contributed to where we are now.
In fact i'd say Gabby mirrors Lerner, looked good early on and gave us hope for a 'bright future' but turned into a disinterested twunt that fecked our club up.
His attitude isn't shit now and hasn't been for a while now. A lot of fans refuse to see this though.
Putting in the effort to be capable of playing (as he's contracted to do) after he got himself into a truly disgraceful state is the absolute minimum. If he starts scoring regularly (he should be capable of 15-20 in this league) then, and only then, will he deserve credit for turning himself around.
That's fair enough.
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As Paul says, it should be the bare minimum for a professional footballer to try their best and not be fat and unfit. And I don't think a dozen competitive games is for a while now. It's a start though.
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As Paul says, it should be the bare minimum for a professional footballer to try their best and not be fat and unfit. And I don't think a dozen competitive games is for a while now. It's a start though.
Well he hasn't been fat and unfit for quite a while now but you wouldn't know it from reading this thread and others on here. From what I've seen from him his attitude this calendar year has been first class. It's tiresome reading the same old "he's fat, lazy, wanker, twat" ad nausum when it's clear his attitude has changed.
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For many though it will take more than a few months and 1 goal to get back in credit after years of taking the piss. Same as most folks didn't turn on him after just the first few months of being shit.
I think he's a bit of a twat and his attitude over the last few years has been a disgrace. Doesn't stop me hoping he continues to improve. I'll be delighted if he smashes this division this season and helps us to promotion. Won't stop me being pissed off over the previous years, same as they didn't stop me appreciating his first few.
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Of course his attitude has changed, he'll be unemployed in less than a year.
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He's a very lucky fella to be still playing for a club this size. Baker might not have been the best defender i've seen down there or the worst. He didn't take the piss out of the people who were helping pay his wages though.
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I wish Nathan Baker well at Bristol City. Injuries aside, we've let a player go who was willing to put his body on the line and would put his head in where the boots were flying.
Unlike that clown Richards who wouldn't cross the road to benefit Aston Villa.
I second that emotion.
But Brucey said that Micah is great around the place.
So good around the place that he told him he should stay there while the rest of the squad went to Germany. Richards is no longer a footballer but a block of wood with legs. He's immobile and utterly useless. I don't think we can even give him away.
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For many though it will take more than a few months and 1 goal to get back in credit after years of taking the piss. Same as most folks didn't turn on him after just the first few months of being shit.
I think he's a bit of a twat and his attitude over the last few years has been a disgrace. Doesn't stop me hoping he continues to improve. I'll be delighted if he smashes this division this season and helps us to promotion. Won't stop me being pissed off over the previous years, same as they didn't stop me appreciating his first few.
100% agree.
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I always have and do still thinkt here's more to teh gabby situation then just being shit with a shit attitude. I think it goes deeper than that.
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I always have and do still thinkt here's more to teh gabby situation then just being shit with a shit attitude. I think it goes deeper than that.
You mean seven consecutive managers have all had an unjustified downer on him?
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I always have and do still thinkt here's more to teh gabby situation then just being shit with a shit attitude. I think it goes deeper than that.
You mean seven consecutive managers have all had an unjustified downer on him?
Don't remember Lambert or McLeish having a problem with him.
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There are too many that haven't had a downer on him. He's offered the square root of fuck all for years. I'd wager most teams are scared of him though... Because they don't want to be the first to concede a goal to him.
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It would suit me if we just wheeled him out for two games a season and left it at that
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Think Baker has been one of our most improved players and is a good prospect for the future. The problem is that Bruce seems to be placing too much on experience over the future. Its not like Terry will be able to play every game. Chester and Baker would be my regular centre back pairing.
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Think Baker has been one of our most improved players and is a good prospect for the future. The problem is that Bruce seems to be placing too much on experience over the future. Its not like Terry will be able to play every game. Chester and Baker would be my regular centre back pairing.
think there's a fella called Alex Bruce knocking about who he could bring in now he's created a space
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He's not improved though, we've just dropped to his level. Lower half of the Championship. That said you could never fault his effort or his commitment and he deserves to play football.
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Think Baker has been one of our most improved players and is a good prospect for the future. The problem is that Bruce seems to be placing too much on experience over the future. Its not like Terry will be able to play every game. Chester and Baker would be my regular centre back pairing.
I don't see him as a prospect. He's not a kid and his technique, pace and distribution will never improve. He's simply faced poorer strikers at this level and been exposed less.
He's decent at this level, clearly didn't want to be 3rd or 4th choice and has gone for a relegation battle at Bristol.
We got good money for him, have replaced with a significantly better player, so the more I think on it the more it makes sense.
I don't believe any manager in their right mind would pick Baker over Terry.
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I always have and do still thinkt here's more to teh gabby situation then just being shit with a shit attitude. I think it goes deeper than that.
You mean seven consecutive managers have all had an unjustified downer on him?
Well no because most played him. I may be wrong but I think Remi Garde was the first to drop him for any length of time. Maybe Houllier too?
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Think Baker has been one of our most improved players and is a good prospect for the future. The problem is that Bruce seems to be placing too much on experience over the future. Its not like Terry will be able to play every game. Chester and Baker would be my regular centre back pairing.
I don't see him as a prospect. He's not a kid and his technique, pace and distribution will never improve. He's simply faced poorer strikers at this level and been exposed less.
He's decent at this level, clearly didn't want to be 3rd or 4th choice and has gone for a relegation battle at Bristol.
We got good money for him, have replaced with a significantly better player, so the more I think on it the more it makes sense.
I don't believe any manager in their right mind would pick Baker over Terry.
Agreed. Baker was ok at this level.
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Axi, Jersey Royals are small and thin skinned.
Haha I need to know a variety that has a tendency to favour crap fat shits up front, rubbish tattooed thugs at right back, and grinning bellends over much better options in midfield.
Bruce out! I am on a stag do in Hanoi and am a little worse for wear, but have decided to post. Apologies.
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He was probably looking at games as third choice till Samba started looking the part, so good luck to him, he's chosen to go and play, I have respect for that.
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Well done to baker last night he scored ! I'll miss the head in at all costs and then ensuring injury delays we had for him and his raking tackling efforts . Won't miss the positional play. Reunion with his play 2 week Friday night 25th against the goal abundant Bristol city
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I won't miss his fifty pence head.
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he's going to score against us isn't he!
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he's going to score against us isn't he!
I think he more likely to get injured diving in !
Don't wish either ! Or maybe a consolation in a 1-4 away victory !