Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sirlordbaltimore on February 25, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
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Mat Kendrick's latest piece. I have to agree with him
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mat-kendrick-comment-fans-must-6743554
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Fair play. That is a good article. Well said.
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As if by clockwork, this arrives. Kendrick is obviously hearing something that tells him he can start getting critical. The first wind of this was, indirectly, after the West Ham game. Now he is opening up.
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Fair play Mr. Kendrick.
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As if by clockwork, this arrives. Kendrick is obviously hearing something that tells him he can start getting critical. The first wind of this was, indirectly, after the West Ham game. Now he is opening up.
Who do you think is telling him he can start to be critical?
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He's right: we get what we're prepared to put up with.
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What I brought away from that (and maybe I'm projecting) was that as well as being frustrated with the direction the club is going in on and off the field (hes a Villa fan too remember), hes also getting fed up of not knowing whats going on himself.
His job is to get information out of the club, and the whole place is sealed up so tight its rare he ever has any interesting or useful information to put in his articles. If you ever watch the press conferences on the website, Lambert never gives anything away, and the only thing we ever get from them are vague injury updates. The local journos deserve some criticism for not putting Lambert on the spot enough, but remember last year when Kendrick asked some tough questions and got blanked for a few weeks?
As for 'asking questions' i think some sort of supporters group or campaign needs to be put together. I don't think a simple 'Lambert Out' message will be that useful as in my view the current management is only a small part of the problem. What I want is for the heirarchy to come out and tell us what the timescale of this 'plan' is, I want to know if we'll start spending money again, I want to know if their plans for long term success and sustainability amount to anything more than hoping Lambert is up to the job and letting him get on with it. At this point I'd settle for a press conference from Randy Lerner just to shed some light on what the flying fuck is going on.
Constantly giving us the vague, sunshiney view of what is frankly an unacceptable situation is patronising and disrespectful to the fans who pay huge sums of money to support the team, and don't get enough in return.
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Sounds to me,the club are putting feelers out to see what the fans are really thinking before they make any decisions at the end of the season
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I feel that matters are coming to a head. the board need to let the fans know, firstly, what the long term plan (if such a thing exists) for the club is, and secondly what restrictions Lambert is being asked to work under in terms of wage structure/transfer funds, to allow us to judge more reasonably his suitability as a coach.
If Randy, as he likes us to believe, is passionate about the club and it's "Proud history/bright future" he should be enthusiastic to let us know what shape that future is likely to be. If he is so passionate about the club we should be made aware of the difficulties that are seeing our wage structures reduced. We should be aware of what the plans for growing revenue are, so that we can aim to increase our outlay without breaking a wages/turnover budget.
I have no problem with fiscal responsibility, I would more than anything, hate to see Villa end up in the same hole that has swallowed Leeds and Portsmouth. Within that statement though is an explicit wish that we do not lower our targets and accept mediocrity, this means driving revenues up to allow spending on the pitch..
If there is no long term strategy along these lines then Randy needs to admit that he is merely bumbling on from season to season and let his respect and passion for the club really show by allowing somebody with greater vision to take his place.
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As if by clockwork, this arrives. Kendrick is obviously hearing something that tells him he can start getting critical. The first wind of this was, indirectly, after the West Ham game. Now he is opening up.
Who do you think is telling him he can start to be critical?
I'm no expert, but my guess is its that we're shit.
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As if by clockwork, this arrives. Kendrick is obviously hearing something that tells him he can start getting critical. The first wind of this was, indirectly, after the West Ham game. Now he is opening up.
Who do you think is telling him he can start to be critical?
I was more thinking he would be critical of the manager and not the whole set up. Very unusual move for someone who likes the comfortable trappings of the local media.
There is something going on, that's for sure.
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As if by clockwork, this arrives. Kendrick is obviously hearing something that tells him he can start getting critical. The first wind of this was, indirectly, after the West Ham game. Now he is opening up.
Who do you think is telling him he can start to be critical?
I was more thinking he would be critical of the manager and not the whole set up. Very unusual move for someone who likes the comfortable trappings of the local media.
There is something going on, that's for sure.
I hope you are right, but could it be that seeing how us fans are reacting on sites such as this, he feels that he can put a negative head above the public parapet without getting it blown off?
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Sounds to me,the club are putting feelers out to see what the fans are really thinking before they make any decisions at the end of the season
Definitely. This is an old trick.
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As for 'asking questions' i think some sort of supporters group or campaign needs to be put together.
What about the Supporter's Trust?
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Whatever happens - and I agree with Kendrick when he says that the supporters need to get together and demand answers from the Board - we need to keep it positive inside Villla Park on match days. Meeting up outside the ground before/after matches and letting our feelings be known just could be the way ahead. I'm totally behind the manager BUT I need to know what the vision of the Board is. A couple of seasons back PF stated that the aim of the club was to be in the top 20 wealthiest clubs in Europe every year (no mention of trophies among his aims, alas) and it seems to me that the Board has failed to even meet this target.
The Board needs to clarify where this football club is going - just what are the their aims and intentions? The manager needs to be seriously backed this summer and if he isn't the alarm bells will finally start ringing with me. At the very least we should be challenging for top six and cups - I need to see that the desire for this still exists in the Boardroom.
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The tide is turning ......
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As for 'asking questions' i think some sort of supporters group or campaign needs to be put together.
What about the Supporter's Trust?
Sure, fine, they'll do. My point is there does need to be some kind of specific, focused demand or statement from a group that is representative of fan opinion, instead of just booing or chants at games. I think we need to do something constructive, but I don't really have any idea how to go about it.
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At the very least we should be challenging for top six and cups - I need to see that the desire for this still exists in the Boardroom.
This is an important point. Aiming to be in the top 20 Deloitte list is not the kind of ambition that fans want to hear.
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Lambert thinks we are better team than last season but clearly hasn't seen the statistics. Awful football, awful tactics - we know the team is capable of better from that 45 minutes at Anfield. Worst Villa side I've ever seen since my first game in 1988. And the board don't seem bothered either, something you could never level at Doug Ellis. Lambert out and a big shakeup needed.
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It's a good article by Matt Kendrick.
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Lambert will not like this article - he responds badly to criticism and has banned kendrick once already as well as banning press at Norwich who criticised him - kendrick is quite right .
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Paul Faulkner is behind this. They will want Lambert to resign at end of season.
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Given that it is a totally sit on the fence article instead of actually being the mouthpiece for the pissed off supporters in general (a poll of supporters would probably underpin their right to being representative of them), then I would say it has either come from inside the club, or, indeed, he too is too scared to upset the regime in case of being barred in the process.
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Paul Faulkner is behind this. They will want Lambert to resign at end of season.
I don't think the board are that clever.
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Paul Faulkner is behind this. They will want Lambert to resign at end of season.
How do you know either of those things?
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Somebody needed to say it, and Kendrick has done so eloquently. But it's a sad day when we need the Evening Mail to tell us to get our act together and start putting pressure on a hapless board.
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Paul Faulkner is behind this. They will want Lambert to resign at end of season.
How do you know either of those things?
There was a straw, it was clutched at.
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It could well just be that Mr Kendrick has sensed the dramatic increase in dis-satisfaction since Sunday afternoon and felt he was justified to run with the article he has. I don't think the club can have too many complaints with it.
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No the article is pretty much spot on. Our struggles have been going on too long now.
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Lambert thinks we are better team than last season but clearly hasn't seen the statistics.
Don't the statistics actually back him up?
It's actually watching the matches that says that he's wrong.
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Whatever happens - and I agree with Kendrick when he says that the supporters need to get together and demand answers from the Board - we need to keep it positive inside Villla Park on match days. Meeting up outside the ground before/after matches and letting our feelings be known just could be the way ahead. I'm totally behind the manager BUT I need to know what the vision of the Board is. A couple of seasons back PF stated that the aim of the club was to be in the top 20 wealthiest clubs in Europe every year (no mention of trophies among his aims, alas) and it seems to me that the Board has failed to even meet this target.
The Board needs to clarify where this football club is going - just what are the their aims and intentions? The manager needs to be seriously backed this summer and if he isn't the alarm bells will finally start ringing with me. At the very least we should be challenging for top six and cups - I need to see that the desire for this still exists in the Boardroom.
Im sorry Billy but backing the manager is absolutely the last thing this board needs to do. He has demonstrated an inability to buy quality players more often than not, form a reputable squad, bring players on or create any type of cohesion on the pitch. Hes had his chance, he doesnt deserve another penny imo.
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Lambert thinks we are better team than last season but clearly hasn't seen the statistics.
Don't the statistics actually back him up?
It's actually watching the matches that says that he's wrong.
I agree, on the whole the stats back him up but in reality we're not.
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Nearly all agreed now then.
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Lambert thinks we are better team than last season but clearly hasn't seen the statistics.
Don't the statistics actually back him up?
It's actually watching the matches that says that he's wrong.
I agree, on the whole the stats back him up but in reality we're not.
I think we're a bit more of a solid team than last season, by which I mean we haven't taken the kind of beatings we did last season. We just haven't got the enough points to show for it though.
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Lambert thinks we are better team than last season but clearly hasn't seen the statistics.
Don't the statistics actually back him up?
It's actually watching the matches that says that he's wrong.
I agree, on the whole the stats back him up but in reality we're not.
I think we're a bit more of a solid team than last season, by which I mean we haven't taken the kind of beatings we did last season. We just haven't got the enough points to show for it though.
Yeah but conversely we seem to have lost pretty much all our attacking flair, so I'd say on balance we haven't improved.
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Lambert thinks we are better team than last season but clearly hasn't seen the statistics.
Don't the statistics actually back him up?
It's actually watching the matches that says that he's wrong.
I agree, on the whole the stats back him up but in reality we're not.
I think we're a bit more of a solid team than last season, by which I mean we haven't taken the kind of beatings we did last season. We just haven't got the enough points to show for it though.
Defence more solid, attack more toothless. Midfield inept or bypassed.
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
For me he is past the point of no return - time for randy to wield his chopper.
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Until Lerner sells up sacking lambert is futile
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
Well, he brought in a new defensive coach in the summer, so I don't think he's totally opposed to shaking up the coaching. Its not just the coaching thats the problem though.
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
For me he is past the point of no return - time for randy to wield his chopper.
I dunno about the point of no return, Lambert can still sort this mess out if he really wants to and I admire Randy for putting his cash in to the Villa he really needs to start steering the good ship Villa instead of quietly letting it drift.
UTV
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
Well, he brought in a new defensive coach in the summer, so I don't think he's totally opposed to shaking up the coaching. Its not just the coaching thats the problem though.
and to be fair to the coach and Lambert it has worked has it not ?
for me the midfield is a real worry which is suprising as Lambert was not a bad midfield player himself
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We are matgainally better than last year and we were margainally more better than the year before thus far.
No-one could have any real complaints if we play like we have in many recent games and get relegated.
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
For me he is past the point of no return - time for randy to wield his chopper.
I dunno about the point of no return, Lambert can still sort this mess out if he really wants to and I admire Randy for putting his cash in to the Villa he really needs to start steering the good ship Villa instead of quietly letting it drift.
UTV
I think waving his chopper around would get him into serious trouble. A simple P45 would suffice if things don't improve.
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I think Matt Kendrick has touched on something at the club that maybe we haven't thought too much about which is the apathy of the fans. It's not as though the fans don't care and to be honest, I can't see, at least short term, how any fan group will change things. What we have here is a perfect storm, a classic Catch 22. Whilst plenty of fans are bored and tired with Lambert's football, I don't imagine many have the trust or faith in the board to find a suitable replacement. Whichever way it goes, we'll end up with something nobody wants.
In defence of Lerner/Faulkner, despite the horrific miscalculation in hiring McCleish, the appointment of Lambert was a largely favourable one. There weren't too many complaints and it wasn't just because anybody can be better than McCleish. Lambert had a good track record in the lower leagues and had a good season in the PL with Norwich. He was seen as an up and coming manager that could turn out to become very good.
What was not calculated into the managerial selection was the plan to build a young team, forgetting for a minute where we bought them from and for how much. Young players need nurturing, they need to be developed on so many different levels, it would take a specialised manager and coach to make the plan work. The greatest advantage for a manager working with young talent is they will give you everything, they want to learn, improve and they listen, hanging on your every word. Lambert was not the right manager to take on that role, despite his qualities he was/is still learning the job himself. He was used to more experienced players, players that knew what they had to do and easily understood what he wanted. Maybe somebody like Carlos Queiroz who has a vast knowledge of working with youngsters as well as PL experience would have been a better choice.
Whichever way you look at it, we have some serious decisions to be made this summer. Assuming we do manage to stay up, do we stick with Lambert and face another season of his tactical ineptitude, poor football, shocking home form whilst listening to him tell us how we were "excellent". Or do we trust Randy and Paul Faulkner to find the right man to execute their plan whilst getting us to play some progressive, exciting and entertaining football, bearing in mind just 10 days ago they were willing to give Lambert a 3 year contract extension?
Before you say, well Lerner needs to invest in the team, remember that we're the 6th highest net spenders in the PL over the last 5 years. It's more than the money, it's how that money is spent that is our biggest problem. I don't think Matt Kendrick got it quite right, the Villa fans are not apathetic, they're just stuck between a rock and a hard place and it's a real shit place to be.
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Nearly all agreed now then.
Yep,but it's not going to happen.
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
For me he is past the point of no return - time for randy to wield his chopper.
I dunno about the point of no return, Lambert can still sort this mess out if he really wants to and I admire Randy for putting his cash in to the Villa he really needs to start steering the good ship Villa instead of quietly letting it drift.
UTV
But can he, really though?
I'm sure he 'wants' to sort the mess out, but he is clearly demonstrating that he doesn't have the ability to.
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Are we better than last year , seems to me the main difference is we concede less but this has been brought about by the full backs staying back more often which given we have no width in midfield leaves us with no out balls.The lack of width in midfield also means the FB has no one to cover should they go forward.
Losing 1 nil instead of 3 -0 might look a closer game on paper but the end result is still no points and in last 3 games has meant no goals.
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The biggest question we need to ask the manager is why is the style of football so shockingly bad versus his version of 'we're playing good football.'
The biggest question we need to ask the owner is 'Thanks very much for the £300m when you started, appreciate that the dream didn't work out, but does that mean you stop wanting to live the dream and if so, what do you intend to do about it of anything, because standing still is a sure fire way to take us backwards and eventually to the abyss?'
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I don't think Matt Kendrick got it quite right, the Villa fans are not apathetic, they're just stuck between a rock and a hard place and it's a real shit place to be.
Actually Kendrick does spell out why he thought Villa fans are in a dilemma so he didn't simply say "we're apathetic".
Regarding Kendrick being briefed by someone like Faulkner, I wonder if stuff like this:
"If you believe Villa are stagnating under the current regime and that a fourth season of struggle is not befitting a club of this stature join together and find a way of expressing it in a constructive manner..."
Might be an indicator that he was? Just a thought.
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Where does our Press Officer fit in here? The one who got very arsey earlier in the season. Doogan.
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I don't think Matt Kendrick got it quite right, the Villa fans are not apathetic, they're just stuck between a rock and a hard place and it's a real shit place to be.
Actually Kendrick does spell out why he thought Villa fans are in a dilemma so he didn't simply say "we're apathetic".
Regarding Kendrick being briefed by someone like Faulkner, I wonder if stuff like this:
"If you believe Villa are stagnating under the current regime and that a fourth season of struggle is not befitting a club of this stature join together and find a way of expressing it in a constructive manner..."
Might be an indicator that he was? Just a thought.
Faulkner Out!!!
Smiley thing
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Our Press Officer has the easiest job in football.
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Nope - our 'European scout ' has that job.
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Excellent post Rudy Lambert. I for one feel exactly this way, that there is no point in taking sides between the board or the manager and saying "get everyone out" is ridiculously pie-in-the-sky. I am a staunch advocate of direct action and was one of the view Villa fans who admired the fans who turned up to show their disgust when the board looked to appoint TSM. Fair enough, it made us look amateur and mildly embarrassing to have people with writing on bed sheets outside the stadium - but I couldn't give a monkeys if other fans want to laugh at us. After all, it's OUR club.
Having said all of that, I feel completely powerless to change the direction the club is going in. I'll always go and watch the games, but I don't think I'll be renewing my season tickets anymore. Who knows Kendrick's reasoning for writing the article, but if it brings about any facett of change in the clubs direction (highly unlikely), it'll be a good thing he did.
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Nope - our 'European scout ' has that job.
Is this the chap who possibly scouted Benteke, Kozak, Okore, Vlaar, Bacuna etc?
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if he is serious about the Villa job, Lambert should be changing the coaching staff if he wants to keep the best job in football.
I can't remember who said it, but the head coach/manager should freshen up his coaching staff every 3/4 seasons..
probably Herbert...lol
For me he is past the point of no return - time for randy to wield his chopper.
I dunno about the point of no return, Lambert can still sort this mess out if he really wants to and I admire Randy for putting his cash in to the Villa he really needs to start steering the good ship Villa instead of quietly letting it drift.
UTV
That would be all well and good if Lerner had a track record in leading sports teams or turning around poor performing sports teams. Fact is, he doesn't and his right hand man doesnt either.
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Nope - our 'European scout ' has that job.
Is this the chap who possibly scouted Benteke, Kozak, Okore, Vlaar, Bacuna etc?
Yeah but they're all shit innit.
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I think people are reading a great deal into very little. I see Kendrick writting an article reflective of the mood and frustrations of some supporters. Its gone down very well, so surely he has done his job?
Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
Wasn't Tonev suggest by Stan? Helenius is one for the future, even the player has admitted that.
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
I'm sure he is, but you implied he had the 'easiest job in football', when clearly it was a pointless remark to mark.
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Here is the Villa Trust on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/Villa_Trust
I've tweeted them to aske them what they think of Kendrick's article. Maybe if a few of us did this it could help to start something?
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I think people are reading a great deal into very little. I see Kendrick writting an article reflective of the mood and frustrations of some supporters. Its gone down very well, so surely he has done his job?
Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
It's a forumn. Football attracts all sorts of different people with different views and ways of looking at the game. Can we not just welcome different points of view and interpretations (and dare I say levels of analysis/creativity?) without sneering at it?
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Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
El-Ahmadi looks around for an option and as usual decides to pass it safely behind him to Bertrand.
("back, and to the left")
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Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
El-Ahmadi looks around for an option and as usual decides to pass it safely behind him to Bertrand.
("back, and to the left")
*stands and applauds*
Bravo sir! Bravo!
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I think people are reading a great deal into very little. I see Kendrick writting an article reflective of the mood and frustrations of some supporters. Its gone down very well, so surely he has done his job?
Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
It's a forumn. Football attracts all sorts of different people with different views and ways of looking at the game. Can we not just welcome different points of view and interpretations (and dare I say levels of analysis/creativity?) without sneering at it?
Turn it in. I offered an apparent minority opinion on the subject and you feel the need to come out with the "stop telling me I can't have an opinion?!" garbage? I wasn't sneering before, but I am now at that tripe.
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Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
El-Ahmadi looks around for an option and as usual decides to pass it safely behind him to Bertrand.
("back, and to the left")
*stands and applauds*
Bravo sir! Bravo!
We try to play on a grassy knoll every week.
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Easy and simple it may sound, but why don't we as a fans group write to Lerner/Faulkner or both giving our issues with the way the club is heading? Anyone on H&V can sign it (it would have to be email) and then surely they'll listen and respond? Without action nothing will happen!
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Easy and simple it may sound, but why don't we as a fans group write to Lerner/Faulkner or both giving our issues with the way the club is heading? Anyone on H&V can sign it (it would have to be email) and then surely they'll listen and respond? Without action nothing will happen!
I have just got a bedsheet,stop being so sensible.
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Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
El-Ahmadi looks around for an option and as usual decides to pass it safely behind him to Bertrand.
("back, and to the left")
*stands and applauds*
Bravo sir! Bravo!
We try to play on a grassy knoll every week.
But all our shots are from the wrong direction. Instead of shooting from behind maybe we should try from the front or the side, stop sitting on the fence.
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Does that mean I don't need to finish my effigy of Randy?
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Easy and simple it may sound, but why don't we as a fans group write to Lerner/Faulkner or both giving our issues with the way the club is heading? Anyone on H&V can sign it (it would have to be email) and then surely they'll listen and respond? Without action nothing will happen!
I guess the email would be going to... Nicky Keyes?
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I think people are reading a great deal into very little. I see Kendrick writting an article reflective of the mood and frustrations of some supporters. Its gone down very well, so surely he has done his job?
Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
I'm with you on this one. Are we really crediting the people who have overseen the last 4 seasons with the intelligence, nous and cunning to come up with some really Machiavellian scheme here to flush out antipathy to Lambert so that they can bin him?
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
I'm sure he is, but you implied he had the 'easiest job in football', when clearly it was a pointless remark to mark.
When did FFD imply that Lambert had the "easiest job in football clamps?"
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
I'm sure he is, but you implied he had the 'easiest job in football', when clearly it was a pointless remark to mark.
When did FFD imply that Lambert had the "easiest job in football clamps?"
He didn't, he suggested the European scout did.
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I think people are reading a great deal into very little. I see Kendrick writting an article reflective of the mood and frustrations of some supporters. Its gone down very well, so surely he has done his job?
Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
I'm with you on this one. Are we really crediting the people who have overseen the last 4 seasons with the intelligence, nous and cunning to come up with some really Machiavellian scheme here to flush out antipathy to Lambert so that they can bin him?
Sad that they would need to find out people's feelings regarding lambert - surely they can see for themselves what's going on - then again probably not :(
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
I'm sure he is, but you implied he had the 'easiest job in football', when clearly it was a pointless remark to mark.
When did FFD imply that Lambert had the "easiest job in football clamps?"
He didn't, it was our European scout. Which is what Clampy is refuting considering the number of players we've signed from Europe.
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I think people are reading a great deal into very little. I see Kendrick writting an article reflective of the mood and frustrations of some supporters. Its gone down very well, so surely he has done his job?
Too many budding Oliver Stones on here pouring over Kendrick's work as if it were the Zapruder film.
I'm with you on this one. Are we really crediting the people who have overseen the last 4 seasons with the intelligence, nous and cunning to come up with some really Machiavellian scheme here to flush out antipathy to Lambert so that they can bin him?
Speculation can be fun but no matter what the motivation for the article is I think the main point is the content isn't it?
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
I'm sure he is, but you implied he had the 'easiest job in football', when clearly it was a pointless remark to mark.
When did FFD imply that Lambert had the "easiest job in football clamps?"
He didn't, it was our European scout. Which is what Clampy is refuting considering the number of players we've signed from Europe.
I assume it was a left-over comment that he'd saved from the O'Neill days.
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I don't think Matt Kendrick got it quite right, the Villa fans are not apathetic, they're just stuck between a rock and a hard place and it's a real shit place to be.
Actually Kendrick does spell out why he thought Villa fans are in a dilemma so he didn't simply say "we're apathetic".
He makes a valid defence for the apathy of the matchday crowd, agreed. I'm not reading any conspiracy behind his comments but he is highlighting the "sense of disillusionment" amongst the fanbase that seems to go unnoticed by those at the club. If that's true and there's little reason to question him, it just furthers my thought on the whole Catch 22 scenario. What a bloody mess.
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Benteke - yes
Okore - we don't know yet.
Vlaar - ok.
Bacuna - no better than Lowton.
Kozak - limited .
He must also be responsible for Sylla, Tonev , El Ahmadi and Helenius then.
I'm sure he is, but you implied he had the 'easiest job in football', when clearly it was a pointless remark to mark.
When did FFD imply that Lambert had the "easiest job in football clamps?"
He didn't, he suggested the European scout did.
Gotcha.
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Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
It's available & I can host this on my cloud for a monthly fee.
-
I like the crowd funded player suggestion but it would probably be spent on signing Grant Holt on a £25k a week permanent deal.
-
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
No, somebody in Guildford, Surrey owns it. My guess is it's a Man Utd fan.
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
It's available & I can host this on my cloud for a monthly fee.
Jesus, is that you? When did you did start charging for clouds?
-
A far cry from the mail headline of yesteryear -
' For God Sake Go Dr Jo'
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
It's available & I can host this on my cloud for a monthly fee.
Jesus, is that you? When did you did start charging for clouds?
He needs a new Ironman bike, needs must and all that. ;)
-
A far cry from the mail headline of yesteryear -
' For God Sake Go Dr Jo'
They didn't really mean that in the way it was perceived. He kept farting in the Press conferences. Even I worked that out.
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
-
I could restart my Warwick Pool round? We would only need another 1m to do the same.
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
We should get one going on here. Say 1000 squares, each at ten pence a square. That's a good way of contributing more to H&V online.
Mods is this possible ? What a top idea Rudy.
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I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
We should get one going on here. Say 1000 squares, each at ten pence a square. That's a good way of contributing more to H&V online.
Mods is this possible ? What a top idea Rudy.
I think you'd need a license to run a competition like that. It's effectively a lottery.
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
We should get one going on here. Say 1000 squares, each at ten pence a square. That's a good way of contributing more to H&V online.
Mods is this possible ? What a top idea Rudy.
I think you'd need a license to run a competition like that. It's effectively a lottery.
Even if it was possible, just imagine the bitchfest on here as everybody fights to get the squares at the top of the grid.
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
We should get one going on here. Say 1000 squares, each at ten pence a square. That's a good way of contributing more to H&V online.
Mods is this possible ? What a top idea Rudy.
I think you'd need a license to run a competition like that. It's effectively a lottery.
Even if it was possible, just imagine the bitchfest on here as everybody fights to get the squares at the top of the grid.
Oh well, worth a shot. But is it a lottery ? If fellow H&Vers decided to donate a certain amount to this guessing game then would the usual lottery regulations apply ? It would be a private game played by members only. There has to be a way around it, surely.
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Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
We should get one going on here. Say 1000 squares, each at ten pence a square. That's a good way of contributing more to H&V online.
Mods is this possible ? What a top idea Rudy.
I think you'd need a license to run a competition like that. It's effectively a lottery.
Even if it was possible, just imagine the bitchfest on here as everybody fights to get the squares at the top of the grid.
Oh well, worth a shot.
It's worth breaking the law (if indeed it is, I am not sure) for the reason Rudy pointed out.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
-
Maybe if we started a Facebook group, and if we all tweeted @AVFCOfficial a bit, set up ohmygodhowdiditcometothis.tumblr.com, and started tweeting famous people "PLEASE RT, VILLA FANS SICK OF US BEING SHIT" we could propel ourselves to Champions League glory?
Has anyone checked ohmygodlookhowfarwevefallen.com? Is it available?
Or maybe we should launch a kickstarter campaign and see if we can crowd fund a decent player?
£ signs?
Let's go real retro and have a weekly Spot the Ball competition. We'll only need a few thousand volunteers to go around knocking on doors every Friday evening.
We should get one going on here. Say 1000 squares, each at ten pence a square. That's a good way of contributing more to H&V online.
Mods is this possible ? What a top idea Rudy.
I think you'd need a license to run a competition like that. It's effectively a lottery.
Even if it was possible, just imagine the bitchfest on here as everybody fights to get the squares at the top of the grid.
Oh well, worth a shot.
It's worth breaking the law (if indeed it is, I am not sure) for the reason Rudy pointed out.
I totally agree and i am not sure it would be breaking the law to be honest. It would be, lets say a Golden Muppets game only. You have already contributed to become a Golden Muppet, Just contribute a little more to receive a prize, not a cash one obviously, but a decent prize should you win.
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1st prize 2 tickets for the Norwich game.
2nd prize 4 tickets for the Norwich game.
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1st prize 2 tickets for the Norwich game.
2nd prize 4 tickets for the Norwich game.
Ha , excellent!
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
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3rd prize: Joe Bennett
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For me, this article could have been written any time between now and last September. Seems a bit late in the day to agitate vocal rebellion.
As for the comments about needing to know if the board still want to win trophies, they're obviously going to say yes, but add that they think the current set-up is more than capable of doing so.
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3rd prize: Joe Bennett
Try and make a decent suggestion eh. 4th prize - Taking charge of a training session at BMH. Now take the piss. ;D
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I hadn't realised we'd only taken 9 points from the last 39. That really is depressing.
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5th prize: A season ticket for life.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
Fame at last! Bravo sir. Just a pity it wasn't Tokyo Sexwale. Or that Cockbiscuit fellow.
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good article. what platforms are available to voice these opinions to board level?
the only things boards seem to understand are fans deserting the team in their droves and/or the manager being abused from a height by supporters for a few weeks.
this tactic eventually got rid of mcleish, otherwise he might still be here.
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good article. what platforms are available to voice these opinions to board level?
the only things boards seem to understand are fans deserting the team in their droves and/or the manager being abused from a height by supporters for a few weeks.
this tactic eventually got rid of mcleish, otherwise he might still be here.
...and Lambert wouldn't.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
shit, now I have to figure out to do with my 15 minutes of fame. So many people to thank...
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One thing that negates Kendrick's master plan is that fans of most teams have taken to booing when only mildly dissatisfied. Some boo when they go in at half-time goalless. To my mind, nothing but a Tibetan monk self-immolating while wearing a Villa shirt will make the Terrible Troika take any notice.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
Fame at last! Bravo sir. Just a pity it wasn't Tokyo Sexwale. Or that Cockbiscuit fellow.
Yeh, how about it? I've got a boring name. I'd liked to have seen him print Mrs Hilda Slag.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
shit, now I have to figure out to do with my 15 minutes of fame. So many people to thank...
Get yourself in Sunday's programme, and show them something which will make them (by which I mean the people in charge) feel really ashamed.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
Fame at last! Bravo sir. Just a pity it wasn't Tokyo Sexwale. Or that Cockbiscuit fellow.
Yeh, how about it? I've got a boring name. I'd liked to have seen him print Mrs Hilda Slag.
I could always change it for you...
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
Fame at last! Bravo sir. Just a pity it wasn't Tokyo Sexwale. Or that Cockbiscuit fellow.
Yeh, how about it? I've got a boring name. I'd liked to have seen him print Mrs Hilda Slag.
I could always change it for you...
I reckon this name changing thing has been the real curse. Name changes when N'Zogbia joined, links to OGS and now Lambert. None of them have worked out too well have they?
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
shit, now I have to figure out to do with my 15 minutes of fame. So many people to thank...
Can I have your autograph?
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1. PL is not good enough
2. Would you trust RL /PF to make a decent / the right managerial appointment?
3. What manager could well under the current regime i.e. buy on the cheap & pay peanuts for wages?
If RL can't take the club forward then he should be looking to sell to someone who can - if he loves the club like he says then he should let go when/if the opportunity arises.
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1. PL is not good enough
2. Would you trust RL /PF to make a decent / the right managerial appointment?
3. What manager could well under the current regime i.e. buy on the cheap & pay peanuts for wages?
If RL can't take the club forward then he should be looking to sell to someone who can - if he loves the club like he says then he should let go when/if the opportunity arises.
Can't disagree with any of that.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
No Toronto Villa is Paul Faulkner.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
Fame at last! Bravo sir. Just a pity it wasn't Tokyo Sexwale. Or that Cockbiscuit fellow.
Yeh, how about it? I've got a boring name. I'd liked to have seen him print Mrs Hilda Slag.
I could always change it for you...
I reckon this name changing thing has been the real curse. Name changes when N'Zogbia joined, links to OGS and now Lambert. None of them have worked out too well have they?
You could be right there, Tarantino Villaman.
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Enough chat. Just sack him. If the club are trying to sound out the fans by leaking stuff to the papers, they only need to read H&V!!
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Enough chat. Just sack him.
You heard him, Toronto Faulkner.
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I hadn't realised we'd only taken 9 points from the last 39. That really is depressing.
Indeed, it's enough to justify the sack!
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Enough chat. Just sack him. If the club are trying to sound out the fans by leaking stuff to the papers, they only need to read H&V!!
Says it all !
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For a start, I cannot believe this is being hailed as a good article. It is not an article. Matt wrote better when he occasionally wrote in the mag. He says nothing.
This is also not to stick it to him. His article however has a few, self serving, thrusts.
1. I have tried but just can't get anything you want to read out of them.
2. With the hope of the above in mind, I cannot be vehemently opposed to anything.
3. With 1 in mind, you make a story (stir) and I will write about it.
4. Importantly, I have noticed you starting to question why I am not questioning them.
As it goes I know Matt. He is very pally with Woodhall so it is not like he can't find us when he wants to.
He is a good lad but picking splinters from his arse in that piece.
It is not him being given a nod with a DC5 style conspiracy theory. He has gone fishing for a story out of frustration.
No more and no less.
See his amusement at TV and a torn badge as an example.
Bugger the polls though. He would be better off at our table of twenty in The Bartons after the match.
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Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
shit, now I have to figure out to do with my 15 minutes of fame. So many people to thank...
Can I have your autograph?
Yes, I'll ask my agent to send you one
-
Nice to see mr kendrick is here too-
@MatKendrick: Lovely stuff from Toronto Villa on Heroes & Villains.... "I won't deem this a crisis until I see a torn badge." ;-)
Is he Toronto Villa?
Fame at last! Bravo sir. Just a pity it wasn't Tokyo Sexwale. Or that Cockbiscuit fellow.
Yeh, how about it? I've got a boring name. I'd liked to have seen him print Mrs Hilda Slag.
I could always change it for you...
I reckon this name changing thing has been the real curse. Name changes when N'Zogbia joined, links to OGS and now Lambert. None of them have worked out too well have they?
You could be right there, Tarantino Villaman.
I'll tell you what if this season ends up in the shitter I will very likely go all Kill Bill down at B6.
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Good stuff TV. May be not a total name change but addition of "Toronto Villa MK Lovely"?
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For a start, I cannot believe this is being hailed as a good article. It is not an article. Matt wrote better when he occasionally wrote in the mag. He says nothing.
This is also not to stick it to him. His article however has a few, self serving, thrusts.
1. I have tried but just can't get anything you want to read out of them.
2. With the hope of the above in mind, I cannot be vehemently opposed to anything.
3. With 1 in mind, you make a story (stir) and I will write about it.
4. Importantly, I have noticed you starting to question why I am not questioning them.
As it goes I know Matt. He is very pally with Woodhall so it is not like he can't find us when he wants to.
He is a good lad but picking splinters from his arse in that piece.
It is not him being given a nod with a DC5 style conspiracy theory. He has gone fishing for a story out of frustration.
No more and no less.
See his amusement at TV and a torn badge as an example.
Bugger the polls though. He would be better off at our table of twenty in The Bartons after the match.
Maybe Kendrick didn't want to wait until Sunday before publishing his article.
Your point 2: With the hope of the above in mind, I cannot be vehemently opposed to anything.
We have seen plenty of that it the past and, as I said earlier, well before this article came out, the local media will turn when they get word that Lambert is on the ropes. This isn't the first journalist to show signs of doing an about turn in recent weeks.
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He has heard Lambert is on shakey ground thats my take on it, all it needs is a couple of fans to rip up their season tickets in front of the cameras and it will be on. Kendrick is right on one point the supporters need a representative body to agitate for change when needed, this supporters trust i keep hearing about doesn't seem to do much.
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He has heard Lambert is on shakey ground thats my take on it, all it needs is a couple of fans to rip up their season tickets in front of the cameras and it will be on. Kendrick is right on one point the supporters need a representative body to agitate for change when needed, this supporters trust i keep hearing about doesn't seem to do much.
They are made of plastic. Bit hard to rip up. Bend, snap or throw like a frisbee, perhaps.
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I am opting out of this thread until Monday morning.
If we beat Narwich5fingers7toes then it will be all calm. Should we lose to Narwich5fingers7toes, well, then it will be a bloody good topic to join in to.
4-0 Villa.
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He has heard Lambert is on shakey ground thats my take on it, all it needs is a couple of fans to rip up their season tickets in front of the cameras and it will be on. Kendrick is right on one point the supporters need a representative body to agitate for change when needed, this supporters trust i keep hearing about doesn't seem to do much.
They are made of plastic. Bit hard to rip up. Bend, snap or throw like a frisbee, perhaps.
Always hated plastic now it's ruined a good protest.
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For a start, I cannot believe this is being hailed as a good article. It is not an article. Matt wrote better when he occasionally wrote in the mag. He says nothing.
This is also not to stick it to him. His article however has a few, self serving, thrusts.
1. I have tried but just can't get anything you want to read out of them.
2. With the hope of the above in mind, I cannot be vehemently opposed to anything.
3. With 1 in mind, you make a story (stir) and I will write about it.
4. Importantly, I have noticed you starting to question why I am not questioning them.
As it goes I know Matt. He is very pally with Woodhall so it is not like he can't find us when he wants to.
He is a good lad but picking splinters from his arse in that piece.
It is not him being given a nod with a DC5 style conspiracy theory. He has gone fishing for a story out of frustration.
No more and no less.
See his amusement at TV and a torn badge as an example.
Bugger the polls though. He would be better off at our table of twenty in The Bartons after the match.
I'm glad you posted this mate, as up until I read it I was beginning to think I was the only one who read it that way, and I was starting to question my own judgement.
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I don't for one minute hope we lose on Sunday as I need would. However, if we do get turned over then by god I hope there is some truth in this 'lambert on the ropes' speculation.
-
For a start, I cannot believe this is being hailed as a good article. It is not an article. Matt wrote better when he occasionally wrote in the mag. He says nothing.
This is also not to stick it to him. His article however has a few, self serving, thrusts.
1. I have tried but just can't get anything you want to read out of them.
2. With the hope of the above in mind, I cannot be vehemently opposed to anything.
3. With 1 in mind, you make a story (stir) and I will write about it.
4. Importantly, I have noticed you starting to question why I am not questioning them.
As it goes I know Matt. He is very pally with Woodhall so it is not like he can't find us when he wants to.
He is a good lad but picking splinters from his arse in that piece.
It is not him being given a nod with a DC5 style conspiracy theory. He has gone fishing for a story out of frustration.
No more and no less.
See his amusement at TV and a torn badge as an example.
Bugger the polls though. He would be better off at our table of twenty in The Bartons after the match.
I'm glad you posted this mate, as up until I read it I was beginning to think I was the only one who read it that way, and I was starting to question my own judgement.
Chelts is on form.
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I don't believe it's any conspiracy from the club nor is it a particularly great piece of journalism from Kendrick. It justs states the obvious.
But I do think Lambert has turned, he looks a tired frustrated man. He's hamstrung by the restrictions placed on him by the club (which I've no doubt he was aware of), his own limitations & the fact that several key players have gone backwards. You have to ask who is responsible when the club is in the position where an injury to Westwood means that the only available midfield option is Sylla, a player plucked from some 2nd Divsion French club?
Assuming we stay up, the end of the season is the point where the club have to either back him or hang him out to dry. To back him & motivate supporters going into a new season the club will need to provide far greater funds than has been available for the last 3-4 years. I, for one, will take some convincing & the club must know that this is the case for many supporters. Some supporters will be bought by the club simply sacking Lambert & starting the whole process again but I suspect this time most will not.
The conundrum for the club is do they trust Lambert?
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He has heard Lambert is on shakey ground thats my take on it, all it needs is a couple of fans to rip up their season tickets in front of the cameras and it will be on. Kendrick is right on one point the supporters need a representative body to agitate for change when needed, this supporters trust i keep hearing about doesn't seem to do much.
Funnily enough - we were already exchanging emails around the idea of providing a 'fans voice' on this issue this week. Then this article appears and potentially provides a bit of momentum!
We definitely want to do something with this. We're working on our own thoughts, and would really welcome any ideas to move this along. Someone out there will have a blindingly obvious idea on how to pull this together I'm sure!
For example - spending 3 months doing a survey & getting 1100 responses was brilliant for safe standing - but isn't going to cut it for this even if I was up for doing that again!
Tbh - personally I'm not a Lambert/Lerner/Faulkner out person, but it isn't about me, it's about finding out what people really think - but not just the loud ones! We can see them all over twitter & fb. We need to hear from the ambivalent & the wait & sees, etc too - they tend to be a bit quieter. It's a democracy - what we have to take forward in the end, is what we find out people think.
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Think back to the quality of Petrov, Milner, Downing and Young and then look at KEA, Sylla and maybe Westwood.
We got what, the guts of£60m quid for Downing, Young and Milner. We made healthy profits on them all, and Barry the year before that. We spunked half of that on further bad buys after MON left and probably put the rest to paying the high earners. The cost has been a staggering decline in the quality we have on the actual pitch.
Same could be said of our defence. Going from the likes of Laursen, Mellberg, Collins, Cueller, Luke Young and Dunne to what we have now is again a decline. Is Vlaar as good as Laursen, Mellberg, Collins and Dunne were in their prime? I don't think so while we have thrown Baker and Clark into the heat of two relegation struggles at the formative time of their careers.
We have gambled an awful lot to reduce the wage bill. Surely there was a better way? I think we could have got more out of our existing resources and used our transfer kitty and academy graduates much more effectively than we have. We have pursued a scorched earth policy with the first team squad, paying the wages of the bombers but not playing them, and watching as what line sup in Claret & Blue just declines in quality. Is it worth risking the financial disaster that would be relegation? I am just struggling to make sense of why we have gone about things the way we have. Surely there was a better way to square those circles.
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I don't believe it's any conspiracy from the club nor is it a particularly great piece of journalism from Kendrick. It justs states the obvious.
But I do think Lambert has turned, he looks a tired frustrated man. He's hamstrung by the restrictions placed on him by the club (which I've no doubt he was aware of), his own limitations & the fact that several key players have gone backwards. You have to ask who is responsible when the club is in the position where an injury to Westwood means that the only available midfield option is Sylla, a player plucked from some 2nd Divsion French club?
Assuming we stay up, the end of the season is the point where the club have to either back him or hang him out to dry. To back him & motivate supporters going into a new season the club will need to provide far greater funds than has been available for the last 3-4 years. I, for one, will take some convincing & the club must know that this is the case for many supporters. Some supporters will be bought by the club simply sacking Lambert & starting the whole process again but I suspect this time most will not.
The conundrum for the club is do they trust Lambert?
This is the big question. Do we trust him ? If we open the transfer budget flood gates what can we expect ?
Quality, fighting for a top 6 finish, or lower league , cheap wages and just about surviving ?
I am bloody bored of seeing my club go through this ' Transition " period tbh.
Has everybody who works for our club forgotten our history ? Do they know the names of the lads who won the European Cup, Super Cup, FA Cup Finals, League Cup Finals.?
It is all well and good to plaster the players tunnel with our history, winning teams, trophies, etc. Maybe they should instead put up the photo's of pissed off, life long season ticket holders and there sons, daughters, grand children, who have had enough of being an also ran club.
We want and demand our history back. And we want it pretty bloody sharpish Mr Lerner, Faulkener and Lambert.
If you cannot do it then step aside, let someone who can take charge. We will not be selling our soul at all, we will be regaining our place in the top flight of English and European football.
Just my very pissed off view. No offence intended to anybody at all. I just think that we all deserve better than we are getting.
UTV Always.
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I hate writing long posts.
As some one who constantly railed against Doug, I would take Lerner any day. Seperate debate.
Stride far more nous than Faulkner.
My issue with Lerner is that, good intentions aside, a leader needs to be seen leading.
He avoids the limelight (no problem) but his surragate Faulkner also abdicates leadership.
It is left to the mumblings of Lambert to keep us informed.
I wanted Lambert to succeed as do ( I guess) most on this site.
Most of us were happy with his appointment.
Where do we go from here ?
First Priority is to stay up.
We then need some declaration of intent, where do we want to go ?
What is the plan and who can take us there ?
If the club are flying a kyte through Kendrick, I hope they have a plan B.
It has been mentioned here many times but a respected Villa/Football man in the Management team is clearly needed.
Can Lambert make it, I do not know. On current evidence no.
With some Mentorship, Maybe.
Why are we not shouting for his head, to me it is clear, we wanted Odreary Out, We wanted Oneil, but changed our minds. we were unsure about Houllier, nobody in their right mind wanted The Scottish one, and not because he was from Small Heath.
We are too embarressed to be seen hounding out a guy we mainly wanted 18 months ago.
Way forward,
1st a declaration of intent from the Board and a road map.
Then some open constructive debate, through what ever forum.
I notice, no comment from some of the Moderators on the site who may have to, "keep their powder dry"
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As Kendrick and the Mail have more direct access to the club than we, shouldn't he be putting these concerns to the management himself?
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Amfy like you i am not a Lambert has to go at all costs follower but i do think supporters are being treated very badly in all this. To think that 36000 still turn up at home games is nothing short of astounding considering the entertainment being offered up.
I am concerned that Lambert is showing all the outward signs of someone who has overeached and can't find a way out, the last interview i saw was painful to watch i actually felt sorry for him, when i see how much money he has spent however you can't be too sympathetic as he has had a lot more than most premiership managers with little or no improvement.
I would love us to go on a run like last season and see another new horizon but i can't see it, Benteke was our saviour then but he is a pale imitation of that player now and i can't see another player in the squad that is capable of giving us the spark that's needed.
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As Kendrick and the Mail have more direct access to the club than we, shouldn't he be putting these concerns to the management himself?
Yes is the answer to that.
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I hate writing long posts.
As some one who constantly railed against Doug, I would take Lerner any day. Seperate debate.
Stride far more nous than Faulkner.
My issue with Lerner is that, good intentions aside, a leader needs to be seen leading.
He avoids the limelight (no problem) but his surragate Faulkner also abdicates leadership.
It is left to the mumblings of Lambert to keep us informed.
I wanted Lambert to succeed as do ( I guess) most on this site.
Most of us were happy with his appointment.
Where do we go from here ?
First Priority is to stay up.
We then need some declaration of intent, where do we want to go ?
What is the plan and who can take us there ?
If the club are flying a kyte through Kendrick, I hope they have a plan B.
It has been mentioned here many times but a respected Villa/Football man in the Management team is clearly needed.
Can Lambert make it, I do not know. On current evidence no.
With some Mentorship, Maybe.
Why are we not shouting for his head, to me it is clear, we wanted Odreary Out, We wanted Oneil, but changed our minds. we were unsure about Houllier, nobody in their right mind wanted The Scottish one, and not because he was from Small Heath.
We are too embarressed to be seen hounding out a guy we mainly wanted 18 months ago.
Way forward,
1st a declaration of intent from the Board and a road map.
Then some open constructive debate, through what ever forum.
I notice, no comment from some of the Moderators on the site who may have to, "keep their powder dry"
Some excellent posts on here - amfy, Cheltenham and steamer
There is certainly a positive feel for a "fans voice" movement and I for one will support and act in concert with others if it comes about.
I will state now that I want Paul Lambert to be the most successful Villa manager in history but I doubt he will come close.
Said after the win over the Baggies it would be papering over cracks and a win on Sunday would be the same.
This goes deep and strong medicine is needed.
Up The Villa
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Excellent post IV. We HAVE pursued a scorched earth policy and we have taken far too many needless gambles.
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A bare minimum would be to offer a 25% dioscount to every season ticket holder from this season for the next 2 seasons.
If we get relegated then it should be 50%
The utter shite endured over 4 calendar years at home has been a disgrace.
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[
Funnily enough - we were already exchanging emails around the idea of providing a 'fans voice' on this issue this week. Then this article appears and potentially provides a bit of momentum!
Have tried to PM you amfy but not sure it has got through?
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[
Funnily enough - we were already exchanging emails around the idea of providing a 'fans voice' on this issue this week. Then this article appears and potentially provides a bit of momentum!
Have tried to PM you amfy but not sure it has got through?
Yes - I picked it up in my email and just came back to reply to you!
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They wouldn't dare increase prices next season, that's for sure.
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Some observations, we have improved our points tally and our defence, in many aspects we have got worse, considerably worse than the last 10 games of last season.
Regardless of motive, I am glad Kendrick has raised the debate.
Will it make any difference? I doubt it, except that the gas has been turned up on the next fixture. The media scrutiny will be a lot more intense.
The problem as Kendrick points out is apathy and I do not see any Voice of the Fans emerging, which is a shame.
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Amfy like you i am not a Lambert has to go at all costs follower but i do think supporters are being treated very badly in all this. To think that 36000 still turn up at home games is nothing short of astounding considering the entertainment being offered up.
I am concerned that Lambert is showing all the outward signs of someone who has overeached and can't find a way out, the last interview i saw was painful to watch i actually felt sorry for him, when i see how much money he has spent however you can't be too sympathetic as he has had a lot more than most premiership managers with little or no improvement.
I would love us to go on a run like last season and see another new horizon but i can't see it, Benteke was our saviour then but he is a pale imitation of that player now and i can't see another player in the squad that is capable of giving us the spark that's needed.
I'm certainly not enjoying it. I saw more of a spark in the 8-0 at Chelsea last year than I have in recent weeks. (I quite liked their bizarre naive 'come on lads - we only need 9!' type approach)
On the other hand, I'm a little bit 'no wait! There have been moments of light recently, they just haven't come to much '2nd half Arsenal, LIverpool, even the 2nd half at Cardiff, & the first at the weekend - they didn't come to anything - but there was something maybe?......and then maybe if he gets £20-£25 million again, but this time buys 3 x £7-8 million players instead of 20 'prospects', maybe that'll be take us up a level next year, & we'll have rebuilt from the bottom, & it'll be really satisfying & make me feel really proud (which was where I REALLY felt we were going last year)
....& then I think - no - I'm delusional, we are actually shit, on a number of levels.
That's the problem I think with canvassing opinion. I don't think it's a 'Lambert out yes or no?' type question. Watching the overall views on this site, and sometimes even on wider social media - I think there's a hell of a lot of us, that aren't really sure what to think - we just know we're worried....and quite bored.
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It doesn't need anyone to tell the club that the supporters are concerned. They have their own marketing people and will find out soon enough. What we don't want to be doing is putting forward a feeling that we are all quiet and patient. There has been enough of that. The crowd will put the voice of the fans across on Sunday, whichever way the game works out.
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Think back to the quality of Petrov, Milner, Downing and Young and then look at KEA, Sylla and maybe Westwood.
We got what, the guts of£60m quid for Downing, Young and Milner. We made healthy profits on them all, and Barry the year before that. We spunked half of that on further bad buys after MON left and probably put the rest to paying the high earners. The cost has been a staggering decline in the quality we have on the actual pitch.
Same could be said of our defence. Going from the likes of Laursen, Mellberg, Collins, Cueller, Luke Young and Dunne to what we have now is again a decline. Is Vlaar as good as Laursen, Mellberg, Collins and Dunne were in their prime? I don't think so while we have thrown Baker and Clark into the heat of two relegation struggles at the formative time of their careers.
We have gambled an awful lot to reduce the wage bill. Surely there was a better way? I think we could have got more out of our existing resources and used our transfer kitty and academy graduates much more effectively than we have. We have pursued a scorched earth policy with the first team squad, paying the wages of the bombers but not playing them, and watching as what line sup in Claret & Blue just declines in quality. Is it worth risking the financial disaster that would be relegation? I am just struggling to make sense of why we have gone about things the way we have. Surely there was a better way to square those circles.
Exactly right about the watering down of the quality. Add to this lengthy injuries to/retirement of players (Dunne, N'Zogbia, Petrov, Okore, Kozak and even young players like Gardner) and you can see why we have such a weak squad.
People go on about how much we have spent in the last 5 years but that period is mostly irrelevant as that accounts for the back end of MON and then the sale of the likes of Barry and Young to finance the purchase of Bent as an example. It is the last 2 years or the last 5 transfer windows that is the key. Yes, we have spent money but most of it has been to replace players who have faded to almost nothing.
Somebody raised it earlier, you have to invest in the team i.e. add to it, just to stand still, otherwise you go backwards and that is exactly what has happened. It is more so today than it has ever been in football.
I really thought that when Lerner came in we were on to something but it was a couple of years too late. Immediately after came the money into West Ham and Man City Mk 1, followed by Man City Mk 2 and the rest is history. Managers since have all made mistakes in the transfer market. MON with his thinking about today and sod the future, Houllier being forced into buying big to save us from relegation, McLeish in leaving an expensive legacy from his buys and Lambert not investing more in strength and quality in midfield. I do believe that Lambert has been dealt a rough hand (perhaps this is why OGS turned the job down) and possibly a bit of a fool to put is growing reputation on the line by taking the job.
Lerner has got to take action now. He either has to plan a reasonable injection of cash into the team over the next two years or sell up and cut his losses. Otherwise we are going to sink.
A local reporter writing an article that even I could have done following a few visits on here is just a side show. It was hardly cutting edge opinion, a fact-based exclusive or insightful analysis. To think that some believe that there might be a conspiracy theory in it, rather than a normal football manager under pressure after poor results. Cheltenhamlion called it right on what the article is.
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I don't believe it's any conspiracy from the club nor is it a particularly great piece of journalism from Kendrick. It justs states the obvious.
But I do think Lambert has turned, he looks a tired frustrated man. He's hamstrung by the restrictions placed on him by the club (which I've no doubt he was aware of), his own limitations & the fact that several key players have gone backwards. You have to ask who is responsible when the club is in the position where an injury to Westwood means that the only available midfield option is Sylla, a player plucked from some 2nd Divsion French club?
Assuming we stay up, the end of the season is the point where the club have to either back him or hang him out to dry. To back him & motivate supporters going into a new season the club will need to provide far greater funds than has been available for the last 3-4 years. I, for one, will take some convincing & the club must know that this is the case for many supporters. Some supporters will be bought by the club simply sacking Lambert & starting the whole process again but I suspect this time most will not.
The conundrum for the club is do they trust Lambert?
This is the big question. Do we trust him ? If we open the transfer budget flood gates what can we expect ?
Quality, fighting for a top 6 finish, or lower league , cheap wages and just about surviving ?
I am bloody bored of seeing my club go through this ' Transition " period tbh.
Has everybody who works for our club forgotten our history ? Do they know the names of the lads who won the European Cup, Super Cup, FA Cup Finals, League Cup Finals.?
It is all well and good to plaster the players tunnel with our history, winning teams, trophies, etc. Maybe they should instead put up the photo's of pissed off, life long season ticket holders and there sons, daughters, grand children, who have had enough of being an also ran club.
We want and demand our history back. And we want it pretty bloody sharpish Mr Lerner, Faulkener and Lambert.
If you cannot do it then step aside, let someone who can take charge. We will not be selling our soul at all, we will be regaining our place in the top flight of English and European football.
Just my very pissed off view. No offence intended to anybody at all. I just think that we all deserve better than we are getting.
UTV Always.
Reading your comments it is clear that you are upset but to think that any time soon we can be again challenging the top 6 is not realistic. Unless we get Man City type investment it is going to take many years to get back to anywhere near the top and then with good fortune along the way.
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Part of the "apathy" jibe seems to come from the McLeish season when the media were waiting to jump on us if we said anything negative about him. It took the 87th minute of the Bolton match for the emotion to be unleashed.
I made allusion in another thread to the groaning being caused by the pain of seeing the first misplaced pass or blunder as the scar tissue of disappointment is prodded over and over. We have been beaten down by this crap and I now drink at matches in an attempt to nullify the pain to come. It helps, but not much.
I would love to have a positive involvement with my club again, just don't let it become a Blackburn-like farce!
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
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I'm certainly not enjoying it. I saw more of a spark in the 8-0 at Chelsea last year than I have in recent weeks. (I quite liked their bizarre naive 'come on lads - we only need 9!' type approach)
On the other hand, I'm a little bit 'no wait! There have been moments of light recently, they just haven't come to much '2nd half Arsenal, LIverpool, even the 2nd half at Cardiff, & the first at the weekend - they didn't come to anything - but there was something maybe?......and then maybe if he gets £20-£25 million again, but this time buys 3 x £7-8 million players instead of 20 'prospects', maybe that'll be take us up a level next year, & we'll have rebuilt from the bottom, & it'll be really satisfying & make me feel really proud (which was where I REALLY felt we were going last year)
....& then I think - no - I'm delusional, we are actually shit, on a number of levels.
That's the problem I think with canvassing opinion. I don't think it's a 'Lambert out yes or no?' type question. Watching the overall views on this site, and sometimes even on wider social media - I think there's a hell of a lot of us, that aren't really sure what to think - we just know we're worried....and quite bored.
I don't think it's a canvassing issue, Amfy. At the moment, I'm thinking that the AVST ought perhaps to try for meeting with PF and others at the club to formally express concern on the fans' behalf at the extended transition period that we've endured since 2010, and the apparent lack of traction that Lambert has presided over.
At least this would indicate a level of concern, prior to taking any other action (such as we saw in the early 2000's against Doug).
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
I bet Lambert Faulkner and Lerner are quaking in their boots.
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
Oops, just seen this ...
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If the club feel it necessary to canvas fans opinions on what is clearly a heap of shit, we really have got problems.
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I thought MOMS was the voice of Villa fans?
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I'm certainly not enjoying it. I saw more of a spark in the 8-0 at Chelsea last year than I have in recent weeks. (I quite liked their bizarre naive 'come on lads - we only need 9!' type approach)
On the other hand, I'm a little bit 'no wait! There have been moments of light recently, they just haven't come to much '2nd half Arsenal, LIverpool, even the 2nd half at Cardiff, & the first at the weekend - they didn't come to anything - but there was something maybe?......and then maybe if he gets £20-£25 million again, but this time buys 3 x £7-8 million players instead of 20 'prospects', maybe that'll be take us up a level next year, & we'll have rebuilt from the bottom, & it'll be really satisfying & make me feel really proud (which was where I REALLY felt we were going last year)
....& then I think - no - I'm delusional, we are actually shit, on a number of levels.
That's the problem I think with canvassing opinion. I don't think it's a 'Lambert out yes or no?' type question. Watching the overall views on this site, and sometimes even on wider social media - I think there's a hell of a lot of us, that aren't really sure what to think - we just know we're worried....and quite bored.
I don't think it's a canvassing issue, Amfy. At the moment, I'm thinking that the AVST ought perhaps to try for meeting with PF and others at the club to formally express concern on the fans' behalf at the extended transition period that we've endured since 2010, and the apparent lack of traction that Lambert has presided over.
At least this would indicate a level of concern, prior to taking any other action (such as we saw in the early 2000's against Doug).
This makes sense to me. I can see that.
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
Gordon Bennett!
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
Come on admit that you are Dave Woodhall?
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
Come on admit that you are Dave Woodhall?
I was wondering what happened to him.
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
Come on admit that you are Dave Woodhall?
I think should be a little concerned about his name being Arsetrumpet, though he might find relief in it being tiny.
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
Gordon Bennett!
Are they not good, Dave? As previously stated, I do think Mr.Woodhall is a great voice for Villa fans but I do like the sound of "Supporters Trust". I think it's the word "Trust" that has sold me. But I'd hate to be a splitter.
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
Gordon Bennett!
Are they not good, Dave? As previously stated, I do think Mr.Woodhall is a great voice for Villa fans but I do like the sound of "Supporters Trust". I think it's the word "Trust" that has sold me. But I'd hate to be a splitter.
The way I look at it, if we want to have some sort of voice why not use an organisation that is set up to be our voice. Otherwise we risk going into a "Judean People's Front V People's Front of Judea" scenario.
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The 'apathy' comes from the fact that most of us understand the position that club has put itself in & understood the need for patience. In the main we have bought the reasons or excuses that have been intimated by the club. I say intimated because nothing of any real substance ever comes out of the club. But our loyalty is being taken for granted and tested to the limit.
The exception to this acceptance by fans was the unfathomable appointment of McLeish. Maybe in our haste to remove him we were blind to Lambert's limitations and inexperience. In truth there is little difference in the end product served up by either manager, other than McLeish did it with better players.
We obviously couldn't sustain losses at the levels seen a few years ago & if we had continued along that path the club would have suffered a fatal blow very quickly. But the alternative route is a slow death none the less.
At some point over the next few months & maybe as soon as Sunday, that 4 years of 'apathy' will come to the surface. When it does, it will be Lambert & the players who feel the brunt of it, when the real target should be Faulkner & Lerner.
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Is anybody really saying this is Pulitzer Prize stuff from Kendrick? Do people really believe the club are getting him to write articles as some kind of Machiavellian ploy to flush out the manager? The reason why this article stands out is because it's agitating for fans to act. You know, do something, anything, don't just sit there and accept your fate. What's remarkable is that it's fallen to the Evening Mail to have to jab fans in the ribs like this. It's been all too cosy while the house is falling down.
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Perhaps Delia will grab the mike at half time on Sunday?
"Randy - where are you?"
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Nice to see Kendrick actually speaking out for a change. Better still why doesn't he go on the attack and question the club rather than the fans?
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I will share with you the email that I sent to the club yesterday lunchtime. I received a telephone call earlier this evening from Nicky Keys, acknowledging that the email had been received and read by Paul Faulkner.
**********************
To Aston Villa,
Mr Randy Lerner, Mr Paul Faulkner, Mr Paul Lambert. Head of ticket sales;
I have been going down Villa Park since the mid 1980's, all but a few of those seasons I have been a season ticket holder. I have a season ticket now- I sit in the North Upper, along with my brother and a friend. Around us, we have made many friends. We are all very passionate and loyal Villa fans- and sometimes we disagree about a few Villa related things, as is the norm. One thing though that we are all in an agreement with, is that the present state of the first team is nothing short of woeful.
The blame falls firmly at the feet of our manager. If Mr Lerner and Mr Faulkner feel that Paul Lambert is worthy of a new contract, then I will not be renewing my season ticket. The football he has provided at Villa Park is terrible- a rare few exceptions such as Sunderland last season, a lucky win against Man City and WBA just papers over the cracks.
We are in real danger of relegation, and that is a result of the manager’s inability. I fear that even if we do stay up this season, we will be forced to endure more of the same next year and the year after that if he is given a new contract. Flirting with relegation should not be what our club should be about. With Paul Lambert in charge, that is the best we can hope for.
If we stay up, then we will be very lucky to do so. If we get relegated, then the board (not the fans) deserve exactly that for not addressing the decline of the first team sooner.
On the pitch, we have made NO progress under Lambert. Just look at the results. Barr a few quality additions, most of the players he has signed are not of premiership class, nor never will be. I believe he’s been given the tools to do the job; he just can’t do the job very well. He has to go.
I would just like to make it clear that when it comes to matters off the field, I am extremely impressed with the club. I have had the pleasure to meet with Mr Faulkner on a few occasions, most recently at the Villa Supporters Trust meeting held last November. I do feel that since Mr Lerner took charge, the dialogue between the club and the fans has been enhanced. I especially appreciate the clubs stance on the safe standing debate.
But, the bottom line is this: Paul Lambert’s football is dross. His results are below acceptable. His squad are the worst since the relegation season of 1986. He does not deserve to still be in a job. He needs to be sacked.
I hope that somebody at the club will pass on my frustrations and concerns to the board, especially Mr Faulkner.
Regards and as always, Up the Villa!
Leighton.
*****************************
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Nice letter, Leighton, but we've had 4 seasons of relegation battles and utter shite football, so it can't be all Lambert's fault. Some criticism of Lerner in your letter wouldn't have been out of place.
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I will share with you the email that I sent to the club yesterday lunchtime. I received a telephone call earlier this evening from Nicky Keys, acknowledging that the email had been received and read by Paul Faulkner.
**********************
To Aston Villa,
Mr Randy Lerner, Mr Paul Faulkner, Mr Paul Lambert. Head of ticket sales;
I have been going down Villa Park since the mid 1980's, all but a few of those seasons I have been a season ticket holder. I have a season ticket now- I sit in the North Upper, along with my brother and a friend. Around us, we have made many friends. We are all very passionate and loyal Villa fans- and sometimes we disagree about a few Villa related things, as is the norm. One thing though that we are all in an agreement with, is that the present state of the first team is nothing short of woeful.
The blame falls firmly at the feet of our manager. If Mr Lerner and Mr Faulkner feel that Paul Lambert is worthy of a new contract, then I will not be renewing my season ticket. The football he has provided at Villa Park is terrible- a rare few exceptions such as Sunderland last season, a lucky win against Man City and WBA just papers over the cracks.
We are in real danger of relegation, and that is a result of the manager’s inability. I fear that even if we do stay up this season, we will be forced to endure more of the same next year and the year after that if he is given a new contract. Flirting with relegation should not be what our club should be about. With Paul Lambert in charge, that is the best we can hope for.
If we stay up, then we will be very lucky to do so. If we get relegated, then the board (not the fans) deserve exactly that for not addressing the decline of the first team sooner.
On the pitch, we have made NO progress under Lambert. Just look at the results. Barr a few quality additions, most of the players he has signed are not of premiership class, nor never will be. I believe he’s been given the tools to do the job; he just can’t do the job very well. He has to go.
I would just like to make it clear that when it comes to matters off the field, I am extremely impressed with the club. I have had the pleasure to meet with Mr Faulkner on a few occasions, most recently at the Villa Supporters Trust meeting held last November. I do feel that since Mr Lerner took charge, the dialogue between the club and the fans has been enhanced. I especially appreciate the clubs stance on the safe standing debate.
But, the bottom line is this: Paul Lambert’s football is dross. His results are below acceptable. His squad are the worst since the relegation season of 1986. He does not deserve to still be in a job. He needs to be sacked.
I hope that somebody at the club will pass on my frustrations and concerns to the board, especially Mr Faulkner.
Regards and as always, Up the Villa!
Leighton.
*****************************
I agree with a lot of this but a few things I cannot agree on.
The board are equally to blame in regards this current mess. Asset stripping and no attempt to move the club forward on the pitch. Communication would be improved even more if Lerner actually attended a game or released the occasional statement. The media and everyone regard him as an absentee owner and that's exactly what he is.
In times of adversity it would be nice to see that the captains still on the ship and not left it sinking
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Nice to see Kendrick actually speaking out for a change. Better still why doesn't he go on the attack and question the club rather than the fans?
Somebody had to do it, and somebody has to do that too.
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I will share with you the email that I sent to the club yesterday lunchtime. I received a telephone call earlier this evening from Nicky Keys, acknowledging that the email had been received and read by Paul Faulkner.
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To Aston Villa,
Mr Randy Lerner, Mr Paul Faulkner, Mr Paul Lambert. Head of ticket sales;
I have been going down Villa Park since the mid 1980's, all but a few of those seasons I have been a season ticket holder. I have a season ticket now- I sit in the North Upper, along with my brother and a friend. Around us, we have made many friends. We are all very passionate and loyal Villa fans- and sometimes we disagree about a few Villa related things, as is the norm. One thing though that we are all in an agreement with, is that the present state of the first team is nothing short of woeful.
The blame falls firmly at the feet of our manager. If Mr Lerner and Mr Faulkner feel that Paul Lambert is worthy of a new contract, then I will not be renewing my season ticket. The football he has provided at Villa Park is terrible- a rare few exceptions such as Sunderland last season, a lucky win against Man City and WBA just papers over the cracks.
We are in real danger of relegation, and that is a result of the manager’s inability. I fear that even if we do stay up this season, we will be forced to endure more of the same next year and the year after that if he is given a new contract. Flirting with relegation should not be what our club should be about. With Paul Lambert in charge, that is the best we can hope for.
If we stay up, then we will be very lucky to do so. If we get relegated, then the board (not the fans) deserve exactly that for not addressing the decline of the first team sooner.
On the pitch, we have made NO progress under Lambert. Just look at the results. Barr a few quality additions, most of the players he has signed are not of premiership class, nor never will be. I believe he’s been given the tools to do the job; he just can’t do the job very well. He has to go.
I would just like to make it clear that when it comes to matters off the field, I am extremely impressed with the club. I have had the pleasure to meet with Mr Faulkner on a few occasions, most recently at the Villa Supporters Trust meeting held last November. I do feel that since Mr Lerner took charge, the dialogue between the club and the fans has been enhanced. I especially appreciate the clubs stance on the safe standing debate.
But, the bottom line is this: Paul Lambert’s football is dross. His results are below acceptable. His squad are the worst since the relegation season of 1986. He does not deserve to still be in a job. He needs to be sacked.
I hope that somebody at the club will pass on my frustrations and concerns to the board, especially Mr Faulkner.
Regards and as always, Up the Villa!
Leighton.
*****************************
I agree with a lot of this but a few things I cannot agree on.
The board are equally to blame in regards this current mess. Asset stripping and no attempt to move the club forward on the pitch. Communication would be improved even more if Lerner actually attended a game or released the occasional statement. The media and everyone regard him as an absentee owner and that's exactly what he is.
In times of adversity it would be nice to see that the captains still on the ship and not left it sinking
I'm not even that interested in whether Randy Lerner actually attends games, but it would be nice to hear from him or Paul Faulkner what exactly the vision for the club is. Is Lambert under instruction to buy young and cheap or is that a path he has chosen for himself?
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
Come on admit that you are Dave Woodhall?
I was wondering what happened to him.
Hahaha. I can see why you found that amusing. But please allow me to explain.
For all my life I've been a deeply religious man who has sought the guidance of our good book and from those that have dedicated their lives to understanding it fully. As a result, I find my life to be very fulfilling and very simple knowing that I had walked the righteous path set out before me.
Similarly, I seek guidance as to how best to set right our grand club. Whereas a congregation won't enter into debate amongst itself (although I have heard the odd blasphemous comment outside of mass that can be humorous if tempered with the knowledge that we will be forgiven), it tends to be led by one man. And I believe the same should be true of our support base. In my years as an Aston Villa supporter, it's become clear that Mr.Woodhall has a balanced perspective that isn't easy to come by. He seems to know when to calm his congregation and when to administer a sterner hand.
And I respect that.
I do apologise for taking up so much space on these pages since joining.
PS...I also offer my humblest apologies for my internet name. My son (who isn't as guided by the light as I) set all this up for me and, clearly, has a different sense of humour to what I would have expected of him.
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Tiny Arsetrumpet, whoever you are, I do hope that you continue to post. Wonderfully amusing.
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I'm not sure I follow but offer thanks anyway.
I would also like to reflect your kind gesture back upon you with your open letter to the board of Aston Villa. Personally, I would perhaps have used the word "unenlightened" in place of "dross" but I'm sure there was an element of lucifer's anger in your message which we've all been guilty of on occasion.
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I have a lot of time for Kendrick, a real fan.
But honestly I have no idea what his article means.
He wants us to have a voice heard?
I am pretty sure mine is. Lambert wants to win more games and so does Faulkner & Lerner.
I would like the club to spend more money on transfers now the wage bill is down. Pretty sure the club knows that opinion is widespread as well.
I do not want lambert sacked. Fairly sure the club has heard both sides of that as well.
Shrug, so what is the point of the article?
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I hate writing long posts.
As some one who constantly railed against Doug, I would take Lerner any day. Seperate debate.
Stride far more nous than Faulkner.
My issue with Lerner is that, good intentions aside, a leader needs to be seen leading.
He avoids the limelight (no problem) but his surragate Faulkner also abdicates leadership.
It is left to the mumblings of Lambert to keep us informed.
I wanted Lambert to succeed as do ( I guess) most on this site.
Most of us were happy with his appointment.
Where do we go from here ?
First Priority is to stay up.
We then need some declaration of intent, where do we want to go ?
What is the plan and who can take us there ?
If the club are flying a kyte through Kendrick, I hope they have a plan B.
It has been mentioned here many times but a respected Villa/Football man in the Management team is clearly needed.
Can Lambert make it, I do not know. On current evidence no.
With some Mentorship, Maybe.
Why are we not shouting for his head, to me it is clear, we wanted Odreary Out, We wanted Oneil, but changed our minds. we were unsure about Houllier, nobody in their right mind wanted The Scottish one, and not because he was from Small Heath.
We are too embarressed to be seen hounding out a guy we mainly wanted 18 months ago.
Way forward,
1st a declaration of intent from the Board and a road map.
Then some open constructive debate, through what ever forum.
I notice, no comment from some of the Moderators on the site who may have to, "keep their powder dry"
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If it helps at all the Supporter's Trust replied to my tweet and said they agreed with Mr Kendrick's article, and further:
"We are relaunching to be your voice!"
Gordon Bennett!
Are they not good, Dave? As previously stated, I do think Mr.Woodhall is a great voice for Villa fans but I do like the sound of "Supporters Trust". I think it's the word "Trust" that has sold me. But I'd hate to be a splitter.
Don't know whether they are good or not but 'We are relaunching to be your voice!' Sounds like something from some odd sort of religious cult.
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Don't know whether they are good or not but 'We are relaunching to be your voice!' Sounds like something from some odd sort of religious cult.
From what I have seen it is just some Villa fans. They asked me to be in it because I'd done the safe standing thing so I said I'd give it a go. We don't even all share the same view on the way Villa is at present, just the same as other Villa fans, debating where the blame lies, & whether to stick or twist. However, we are agreed that the platform of The Trust is there to represent what concerns the wider fan base, not what we think.
If you want to do more about the current state of Villa than boo the team off & rant on here & twitter - The Trust may not be perfect, but it's probably the best you've got, and it is there for you to shape.
Tbh - I could go through this thread (more than many others) and pick out some key points to take forward already. It's a start.
It's also really weird as I am still just a H&V poster, & a Villa fan - I'm definitely not the voice of The Trust! I do just feel the need to respond when the name is called!
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It's also really weird as I am still just a H&V poster, & a Villa fan - I'm definitely not the voice of The Trust! I do just feel the need to respond when the name is called!
When the call comes there are those who answer - ;-)
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John Farnham called me and told me I am the voice. I'll do my best. He said it would be best to get comfortable and stay quiet and for convenience, move in with that bloke from VitalVilla but I'm not not gonna sit in silence, I'm not gonna live with Fear.
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Nice letter, Leighton, but we've had 4 seasons of relegation battles and utter shite football, so it can't be all Lambert's fault. Some criticism of Lerner in your letter wouldn't have been out of place.
This for me. 4 seasons. Who hired the the managers for the other 2?
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Don't know whether they are good or not but 'We are relaunching to be your voice!' Sounds like something from some odd sort of religious cult.
From what I have seen it is just some Villa fans. They asked me to be in it because I'd done the safe standing thing so I said I'd give it a go. We don't even all share the same view on the way Villa is at present, just the same as other Villa fans, debating where the blame lies, & whether to stick or twist. However, we are agreed that the platform of The Trust is there to represent what concerns the wider fan base, not what we think.
If you want to do more about the current state of Villa than boo the team off & rant on here & twitter - The Trust may not be perfect, but it's probably the best you've got, and it is there for you to shape.
Tbh - I could go through this thread (more than many others) and pick out some key points to take forward already. It's a start.
It's also really weird as I am still just a H&V poster, & a Villa fan - I'm definitely not the voice of The Trust! I do just feel the need to respond when the name is called!
The safe standing initiative was a great example of supporters researching, demonstrating and promoting something that might make others take notice and it appears to have been successful so far.
Telling the club about playing matters has never been something that they would take any notice of. Even when we had shareholders, the chairman did not want to debate that subject at AGMs.
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
Come on admit that you are Dave Woodhall?
I was wondering what happened to him.
Hahaha. I can see why you found that amusing. But please allow me to explain.
For all my life I've been a deeply religious man who has sought the guidance of our good book and from those that have dedicated their lives to understanding it fully. As a result, I find my life to be very fulfilling and very simple knowing that I had walked the righteous path set out before me.
Similarly, I seek guidance as to how best to set right our grand club. Whereas a congregation won't enter into debate amongst itself (although I have heard the odd blasphemous comment outside of mass that can be humorous if tempered with the knowledge that we will be forgiven), it tends to be led by one man. And I believe the same should be true of our support base. In my years as an Aston Villa supporter, it's become clear that Mr.Woodhall has a balanced perspective that isn't easy to come by. He seems to know when to calm his congregation and when to administer a sterner hand.
And I respect that.
I do apologise for taking up so much space on these pages since joining.
PS...I also offer my humblest apologies for my internet name. My son (who isn't as guided by the light as I) set all this up for me and, clearly, has a different sense of humour to what I would have expected of him.
With all due respect to your religious beliefs, IMHO anyone who believes in God will believe anything an authority figure tells them....
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With all due respect to your religious beliefs, IMHO anyone who believes in God will believe anything an authority figure tells them....
I think that is the entire point that Arsetrumpet is making with regards Woodhall and H&V in general....
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With all due respect to your religious beliefs, IMHO anyone who believes in God will believe anything an authority figure tells them....
I think that is the entire point that Arsetrumpet is making with regards Woodhall and H&V in general....
But you're in Hell Stu!
You are a Believer...
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As Kendrick and the Mail have more direct access to the club than we, shouldn't he be putting these concerns to the management himself?
Quite right, Kendrick has the access, but probably doesn't want to upset the VP hierarchy.
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I don't think apathy is quite right as an accusation on this anyway. I think a few things are at play.
First of all, I don't wish to ignite the debate again on this thread as to whether we are better off than this time last year. Something to think on however.
When our "winnable" games were looming last year there was all kinds of tub-thumping being done as to how we need to fill the ground and roar the boys to safety. I am not taking issue with that. It worked and some of the atmosphere we created at those games was tremendous. But to my mind it would suggest that the lack of such demands so far this year are not because we are apathetic but because, in general, the fan base is not as worried about relegation at this point in time as it was last season. That could change in the coming weeks of course but, as it stands, I am still of the impression that the majority of us don’t think we are on collision course for relegation.
Neither do I believe apathy is the reason we are not demanding that the manager and board are strung up from the nearest flagpole. We as fans can put up with an awful lot. Most of us understand that we have to take our medicine after years of over spending and mismanagement of the squad. It is in part for this reason that we aren’t creating massive waves. We are realists. We don’t want the club to end up in the financial hole that so many others have and can understand the notion that it was always going to be a hard time to go through to put the financial side of things in order.
We aren’t all screaming for the managers head at the minute. But because we are apathetic? I don’t think so. There are some that still have faith that he is the man for the job. There are some that will think he has been dealt a rough hand and want to give him more time to see what he can do with a few quid behind him after dealing with the worst of the excesses of previous regimes. And, even if you do want him out, will it do any good to demand his sacking now? It isn’t as simple as saying “This football is rubbish, give him the boot”, for example. Who is it we are liable to bring in that would be better? Would it be in our best interests to keep our powder dry until the Summer if that is the way it is going, rather than flinging someone new at it with a squad they don’t know and with 10 or 11 games to go? It’s not apathy, it is trying to concern yourself with what is best for the club at that moment in time.
Perhaps they are mistaking our misgivings about the board for apathy. Let’s take Paul Faulkner as an example. I was very critical from the outset of the Lerner tenure about the lack of football knowledge within the board and this has bitten us on the backside more than anything else since 2006. The fact that Sir Flounce-a-lot was allowed to haemorrhage so much money, the bizarre process we seemed to follow to find his replacement, the flip flopping between styles with each new appointment, the appalling way that the value of the first team squad has been managed. All are perfectly fair accusations to put to the board. But….
Paul Faulkner tends to take the brunt for most of the perceived ills here. It isn’t his fault that he had to learn on the job. It isn’t his fault that he was thrust into such a huge job with no background in the game. From a commercial income perspective he has done very well. He is excellent on the charitable and supporter engagement side of things. So should we really be demanding his head? Or should we be doing what we are in raising that we still think a wise football owl on the board to assist would make us stronger? It isn’t apathy, it is about being fair and wanting what is best for the club.
Let’s take the chairman. Is he bored with it all? Why won’t he talk to the fans and media? Shall we rewrite history and pretend Doug did nothing but good here? Why aren’t you lot out on the streets demanding he sell up? Because we are apathetic? Nope. Because he isn’t a bad bloke. Because there are far, far worse people out there who could own us. Look at the shower down the road for an example. You can be miffed that he isn’t around for the games any more. You can wish that he would throw money at it like he did when he first came in. But even in that short time the game has changed.
Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door. He has done great things in the community, just look at the Acorns sponsorship for an example. So is it really fair to be protesting on the streets to demand his removal? Of course it isn’t.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
It isn’t apathy. I don’t accept where we are and have been for the last few seasons. It isn’t good enough. But where we are currently is being met with caution and concern rather than wailing for change, any old change, like the Stripy lot do.
But to me this Summer is the absolute critical point for all of those mentioned above. If we don’t open the piggy bank then you can only conclude that the board are happy to bob along just maintaining our top flight status and taking the TV money. If they do, and the manager buys another raft of kids, punts and misfits, then it shows his failings in identifying the quality that will take us up the league.
I am not apathetic. I am just watching things very closely, and weighing what is best for the club, before I leap to any extreme of position.
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There is something else which bothers me about asking Lerner to sell up; we owe him about £130m. That debt is due to be paid up by 2017, what happens if it isn't?
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CheltenhamLion - An excellent balanced post.
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I don't think apathy is quite right as an accusation on this anyway. I think a few things are at play.
First of all, I don't wish to ignite the debate again on this thread as to whether we are better off than this time last year. Something to think on however.
When our "winnable" games were looming last year there was all kinds of tub-thumping being done as to how we need to fill the ground and roar the boys to safety. I am not taking issue with that. It worked and some of the atmosphere we created at those games was tremendous. But to my mind it would suggest that the lack of such demands so far this year are not because we are apathetic but because, in general, the fan base is not as worried about relegation at this point in time as it was last season. That could change in the coming weeks of course but, as it stands, I am still of the impression that the majority of us don’t think we are on collision course for relegation.
Neither do I believe apathy is the reason we are not demanding that the manager and board are strung up from the nearest flagpole. We as fans can put up with an awful lot. Most of us understand that we have to take our medicine after years of over spending and mismanagement of the squad. It is in part for this reason that we aren’t creating massive waves. We are realists. We don’t want the club to end up in the financial hole that so many others have and can understand the notion that it was always going to be a hard time to go through to put the financial side of things in order.
We aren’t all screaming for the managers head at the minute. But because we are apathetic? I don’t think so. There are some that still have faith that he is the man for the job. There are some that will think he has been dealt a rough hand and want to give him more time to see what he can do with a few quid behind him after dealing with the worst of the excesses of previous regimes. And, even if you do want him out, will it do any good to demand his sacking now? It isn’t as simple as saying “This football is rubbish, give him the boot”, for example. Who is it we are liable to bring in that would be better? Would it be in our best interests to keep our powder dry until the Summer if that is the way it is going, rather than flinging someone new at it with a squad they don’t know and with 10 or 11 games to go? It’s not apathy, it is trying to concern yourself with what is best for the club at that moment in time.
Perhaps they are mistaking our misgivings about the board for apathy. Let’s take Paul Faulkner as an example. I was very critical from the outset of the Lerner tenure about the lack of football knowledge within the board and this has bitten us on the backside more than anything else since 2006. The fact that Sir Flounce-a-lot was allowed to haemorrhage so much money, the bizarre process we seemed to follow to find his replacement, the flip flopping between styles with each new appointment, the appalling way that the value of the first team squad has been managed. All are perfectly fair accusations to put to the board. But….
Paul Faulkner tends to take the brunt for most of the perceived ills here. It isn’t his fault that he had to learn on the job. It isn’t his fault that he was thrust into such a huge job with no background in the game. From a commercial income perspective he has done very well. He is excellent on the charitable and supporter engagement side of things. So should we really be demanding his head? Or should we be doing what we are in raising that we still think a wise football owl on the board to assist would make us stronger? It isn’t apathy, it is about being fair and wanting what is best for the club.
Let’s take the chairman. Is he bored with it all? Why won’t he talk to the fans and media? Shall we rewrite history and pretend Doug did nothing but good here? Why aren’t you lot out on the streets demanding he sell up? Because we are apathetic? Nope. Because he isn’t a bad bloke. Because there are far, far worse people out there who could own us. Look at the shower down the road for an example. You can be miffed that he isn’t around for the games any more. You can wish that he would throw money at it like he did when he first came in. But even in that short time the game has changed.
Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door. He has done great things in the community, just look at the Acorns sponsorship for an example. So is it really fair to be protesting on the streets to demand his removal? Of course it isn’t.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
It isn’t apathy. I don’t accept where we are and have been for the last few seasons. It isn’t good enough. But where we are currently is being met with caution and concern rather than wailing for change, any old change, like the Stripy lot do.
But to me this Summer is the absolute critical point for all of those mentioned above. If we don’t open the piggy bank then you can only conclude that the board are happy to bob along just maintaining our top flight status and taking the TV money. If they do, and the manager buys another raft of kids, punts and misfits, then it shows his failings in identifying the quality that will take us up the league.
I am not apathetic. I am just watching things very closely, and weighing what is best for the club, before I leap to any extreme of position.
Post of the decade for me. Thanks for putting into words what I've been feeling since Sunday. I care absolutely about this club and the instant wailing and gnashing of teeth does help in getting it off your chest but poor decisions often result from anger and it's much better to take a
Considered and thoughtful approach as to what next.
The one thing that is needed at our football club though is visible signs of leadership. I know football is a different kind of business and I'm certainly not advocating a Whelan type gobshite but if we could have a Director of Football to provide some added nous to the boardroom and provide that leadership for us fans it would help enormously. It's as if there is a vacuum at the top and whilst we appreciate the times we go about our business quietly and without fuss there are times this club needs to be galvanized by a voice we can rally around and that for me is what's missing.
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If any club has been crying out for a DoF since MON walked out it is our club based on the lack of footballing knowldge at board level which has not bee addressed since Steve Stride left.
I know it is counter to the English football mentality. It would be someone who would have been able tp help in the recruitment of the manager and / or coaches and whom the scouts report to directly.
If a head coach and deputies are recruited under the set up then there should be no issues from a hierachial point of view - no doubt some healthy debate and tension would exist on player's available / ability in terms of recruitment.
Chetlenham makes some valid and measured points for which we could all follow his lead.
However I am minded to disagree on the apathy. We have been brow beaten for four years - a complete lack of continuity in management style, appraoch to playing and throughput of coaching and playing employees.
The football leadership at the club is non existent.
Villa Park attendences have held up 36k is fantastic for the shite that has been served up most of the time.
There is now an air of resignation about relegation scraps / scrapes especailly following the false dawn of spring 2013.
However it often resembles a morgue such is the dearth of atmosphere. The apathy will I believe turn to anger should we lose on Sunday.
I would also disagree that whilst it is certainly not Mr Faulkner's fault he was promoted to CEO, he was promoted too far above his ability and too soon.
I certainly have zero faith in his, and the owner's, ability to find a suitable replacement for Mr Lambert as and when the issue arises.
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With all due respect to your religious beliefs, IMHO anyone who believes in God will believe anything an authority figure tells them....
IMHO opinion utter rubbish.
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I will share with you the email that I sent to the club yesterday lunchtime. I received a telephone call earlier this evening from Nicky Keys, acknowledging that the email had been received and read by Paul Faulkner.
**********************
To Aston Villa,
Mr Randy Lerner, Mr Paul Faulkner, Mr Paul Lambert. Head of ticket sales;
I have been going down Villa Park since the mid 1980's, all but a few of those seasons I have been a season ticket holder. I have a season ticket now- I sit in the North Upper, along with my brother and a friend. Around us, we have made many friends. We are all very passionate and loyal Villa fans- and sometimes we disagree about a few Villa related things, as is the norm. One thing though that we are all in an agreement with, is that the present state of the first team is nothing short of woeful.
The blame falls firmly at the feet of our manager. If Mr Lerner and Mr Faulkner feel that Paul Lambert is worthy of a new contract, then I will not be renewing my season ticket. The football he has provided at Villa Park is terrible- a rare few exceptions such as Sunderland last season, a lucky win against Man City and WBA just papers over the cracks.
We are in real danger of relegation, and that is a result of the manager’s inability. I fear that even if we do stay up this season, we will be forced to endure more of the same next year and the year after that if he is given a new contract. Flirting with relegation should not be what our club should be about. With Paul Lambert in charge, that is the best we can hope for.
If we stay up, then we will be very lucky to do so. If we get relegated, then the board (not the fans) deserve exactly that for not addressing the decline of the first team sooner.
On the pitch, we have made NO progress under Lambert. Just look at the results. Barr a few quality additions, most of the players he has signed are not of premiership class, nor never will be. I believe he’s been given the tools to do the job; he just can’t do the job very well. He has to go.
I would just like to make it clear that when it comes to matters off the field, I am extremely impressed with the club. I have had the pleasure to meet with Mr Faulkner on a few occasions, most recently at the Villa Supporters Trust meeting held last November. I do feel that since Mr Lerner took charge, the dialogue between the club and the fans has been enhanced. I especially appreciate the clubs stance on the safe standing debate.
But, the bottom line is this: Paul Lambert’s football is dross. His results are below acceptable. His squad are the worst since the relegation season of 1986. He does not deserve to still be in a job. He needs to be sacked.
I hope that somebody at the club will pass on my frustrations and concerns to the board, especially Mr Faulkner.
Regards and as always, Up the Villa!
Leighton.
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I agree with a lot of this but a few things I cannot agree on.
The board are equally to blame in regards this current mess. Asset stripping and no attempt to move the club forward on the pitch. Communication would be improved even more if Lerner actually attended a game or released the occasional statement. The media and everyone regard him as an absentee owner and that's exactly what he is.
In times of adversity it would be nice to see that the captains still on the ship and not left it sinking
Not really a letter I can agree with. Lays all the blame at the manager's feet and seems to exonerate the board which has caused a lot of the conditions that the manager has to work with.
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I just want to know how he got all that on a bedsheet.
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MOMS article about the relaunch of Aston Villa Supporters Trust:
http://www.myoldmansaid.com/aston-villa-supporters-trust-relaunch-stand/
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I don't think apathy is quite right as an accusation on this anyway. I think a few things are at play.
First of all, I don't wish to ignite the debate again on this thread as to whether we are better off than this time last year. Something to think on however.
When our "winnable" games were looming last year there was all kinds of tub-thumping being done as to how we need to fill the ground and roar the boys to safety. I am not taking issue with that. It worked and some of the atmosphere we created at those games was tremendous. But to my mind it would suggest that the lack of such demands so far this year are not because we are apathetic but because, in general, the fan base is not as worried about relegation at this point in time as it was last season. That could change in the coming weeks of course but, as it stands, I am still of the impression that the majority of us don’t think we are on collision course for relegation.
Neither do I believe apathy is the reason we are not demanding that the manager and board are strung up from the nearest flagpole. We as fans can put up with an awful lot. Most of us understand that we have to take our medicine after years of over spending and mismanagement of the squad. It is in part for this reason that we aren’t creating massive waves. We are realists. We don’t want the club to end up in the financial hole that so many others have and can understand the notion that it was always going to be a hard time to go through to put the financial side of things in order.
We aren’t all screaming for the managers head at the minute. But because we are apathetic? I don’t think so. There are some that still have faith that he is the man for the job. There are some that will think he has been dealt a rough hand and want to give him more time to see what he can do with a few quid behind him after dealing with the worst of the excesses of previous regimes. And, even if you do want him out, will it do any good to demand his sacking now? It isn’t as simple as saying “This football is rubbish, give him the boot”, for example. Who is it we are liable to bring in that would be better? Would it be in our best interests to keep our powder dry until the Summer if that is the way it is going, rather than flinging someone new at it with a squad they don’t know and with 10 or 11 games to go? It’s not apathy, it is trying to concern yourself with what is best for the club at that moment in time.
Perhaps they are mistaking our misgivings about the board for apathy. Let’s take Paul Faulkner as an example. I was very critical from the outset of the Lerner tenure about the lack of football knowledge within the board and this has bitten us on the backside more than anything else since 2006. The fact that Sir Flounce-a-lot was allowed to haemorrhage so much money, the bizarre process we seemed to follow to find his replacement, the flip flopping between styles with each new appointment, the appalling way that the value of the first team squad has been managed. All are perfectly fair accusations to put to the board. But….
Paul Faulkner tends to take the brunt for most of the perceived ills here. It isn’t his fault that he had to learn on the job. It isn’t his fault that he was thrust into such a huge job with no background in the game. From a commercial income perspective he has done very well. He is excellent on the charitable and supporter engagement side of things. So should we really be demanding his head? Or should we be doing what we are in raising that we still think a wise football owl on the board to assist would make us stronger? It isn’t apathy, it is about being fair and wanting what is best for the club.
Let’s take the chairman. Is he bored with it all? Why won’t he talk to the fans and media? Shall we rewrite history and pretend Doug did nothing but good here? Why aren’t you lot out on the streets demanding he sell up? Because we are apathetic? Nope. Because he isn’t a bad bloke. Because there are far, far worse people out there who could own us. Look at the shower down the road for an example. You can be miffed that he isn’t around for the games any more. You can wish that he would throw money at it like he did when he first came in. But even in that short time the game has changed.
Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door. He has done great things in the community, just look at the Acorns sponsorship for an example. So is it really fair to be protesting on the streets to demand his removal? Of course it isn’t.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
It isn’t apathy. I don’t accept where we are and have been for the last few seasons. It isn’t good enough. But where we are currently is being met with caution and concern rather than wailing for change, any old change, like the Stripy lot do.
But to me this Summer is the absolute critical point for all of those mentioned above. If we don’t open the piggy bank then you can only conclude that the board are happy to bob along just maintaining our top flight status and taking the TV money. If they do, and the manager buys another raft of kids, punts and misfits, then it shows his failings in identifying the quality that will take us up the league.
I am not apathetic. I am just watching things very closely, and weighing what is best for the club, before I leap to any extreme of position.
What a great post, takes some time and thought to put something like that together so well done, also probably more words typed in this one post than all my 400 plus put together :)
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Really good posts on this thread but three points I'd raise.
1: I have to disagree and say that apathy is a big factor with Villa fans at the moment. As a cliff face is worn away by the tide year after year, so we are worn down by wave upon wave of mediocrity. You can't be angry and militant all the time and eventually you just find something else to do with your precious time. I hate moaning, and it seems it's all I feel obliged to do regarding Villa at the moment, therefore I avoid posting as much as I used to because I don't want to subject others to the kind of posts I try to avoid, however justified. I just get very little joy out of the club I love with all my heart lately.
2: The board are absolutely responsible for our malaise. Yes, in many ways we do things right and I don't question Randy's integrity or intentions for a second. I do however question his judgement. We have not had a proper football based apparatus since he arrived. Thus money has been squandered, we've stumbled from one disastrous managerial regime to another with little thought on consistency and there are people way out of their depth in positions they should not be in. Good businessmen, but utterly clueless regarding the game. That is entirely Randy's fault. There are lots of good things to say about him but the fundamental issues are a sorry tale. We're only going backwards. It is just not good enough and Villa fans will put up with more than fans of clubs half our size would. I think they know that, the board, that's why they feel more comfortable than they should.
3: We don't owe Randy a penny. I often hear how we owe Randy a 9 figure sum. How is this so? Any debts accrued against the club are his own doing and a symptom of the years of mismanagement, lack of proper planning, lack of consistently and execution. Financially, he is Aston Villa. If he was to sell and took a loss, it's his doing and his subordinate's. Likewise, it's his prerogative to recoup that money if he wishes. But as he does so, he risks the stability and top flight status of the biggest club in 100 miles in any direction.
Never forget what a powerhouse this club was and should be, then look at the state we're in now. Not strengthening when it is essential, loaning a Wigan sub when we need a top playmaker (at the very least), recruiting players with very little calibre because they're cheap. It's like some nightmare where we're confirming to the mindless narrative clueless pundits and media hacks have had of us for ages.
Randy is a good man with a good heart and he wants what is best for Villa. He just has no idea how to go about that or employ the people to achieve it. For that reason and that reason alone I hope he sells up and takes any financial hit on the chin. He said he'd move on if he couldn't do the job. Well after four years of struggle, what other conclusion can be drawn? By all means, be a part of the club, have a role of some sort.
As far as I'm concerned he tried and will always be welcome. But it's time to hand over that "custodianship".
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I also agree that the board are as culpable as Lambert and he has NOT been given the resourcess at all. If he had then he wouldn't have had to buy all the shit he has, it's the wages that causes the issues
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Excellent post, Cheltenhamlion. Sums things up very well indeed.
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Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
I really liked Chelt's post but I agree with these comments the more than anything.
We can point the finger at Randy for some of his managerial appointments and that's fair enough. He can't be accused of not investing though, that's ridiculous. Like Chelt's said, he's put in millions. Maybe the quality of some of the players that have come in over the past couple of season's are not what they should be and that's fair enough argument as well, but could we realistically expect him to carry spending £7-8m on every payer that came in? The spending and more importantly the wage bill needed to come down and I think everyone agrees with that. It's not been nice but it needed to be done.
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Really good posts on this thread but three points I'd raise.
1: I have to disagree and say that apathy is a big factor with Villa fans at the moment. As a cliff face is worn away by the tide year after year, so we are worn down by wave upon wave of mediocrity. You can't be angry and militant all the time and eventually you just find something else to do with your precious time. I hate moaning, and it seems it's all I feel obliged to do regarding Villa at the moment, therefore I avoid posting as much as I used to because I don't want to subject others to the kind of posts I try to avoid, however justified. I just get very little joy out of the club I love with all my heart lately.
2: The board are absolutely responsible for our malaise. Yes, in many ways we do things right and I don't question Randy's integrity or intentions for a second. I do however question his judgement. We have not had a proper football based apparatus since he arrived. Thus money has been squandered, we've stumbled from one disastrous managerial regime to another with little thought on consistency and there are people way out of their depth in positions they should not be in. Good businessmen, but utterly clueless regarding the game. That is entirely Randy's fault. There are lots of good things to say about him but the fundamental issues are a sorry tale. We're only going backwards. It is just not good enough and Villa fans will put up with more than fans of clubs half our size would. I think they know that, the board, that's why they feel more comfortable than they should.
3: We don't owe Randy a penny. I often hear how we owe Randy a 9 figure sum. How is this so? Any debts accrued against the club are his own doing and a symptom of the years of mismanagement, lack of proper planning, lack of consistently and execution. Financially, he is Aston Villa. If he was to sell and took a loss, it's his doing and his subordinate's. Likewise, it's his prerogative to recoup that money if he wishes. But as he does so, he risks the stability and top flight status of the biggest club in 100 miles in any direction.
Never forget what a powerhouse this club was and should be, then look at the state we're in now. Not strengthening when it is essential, loaning a Wigan sub when we need a top playmaker (at the very least), recruiting players with very little calibre because they're cheap. It's like some nightmare where we're confirming to the mindless narrative clueless pundits and media hacks have had of us for ages.
Randy is a good man with a good heart and he wants what is best for Villa. He just has no idea how to go about that or employ the people to achieve it. For that reason and that reason alone I hope he sells up and takes any financial hit on the chin. He said he'd move on if he couldn't do the job. Well after four years of struggle, what other conclusion can be drawn? By all means, be a part of the club, have a role of some sort.
As far as I'm concerned he tried and will always be welcome. But it's time to hand over that "custodianship".
Totally agree.
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Don't know whether they are good or not but 'We are relaunching to be your voice!' Sounds like something from some odd sort of religious cult.
From what I have seen it is just some Villa fans. They asked me to be in it because I'd done the safe standing thing so I said I'd give it a go. We don't even all share the same view on the way Villa is at present, just the same as other Villa fans, debating where the blame lies, & whether to stick or twist. However, we are agreed that the platform of The Trust is there to represent what concerns the wider fan base, not what we think.
If you want to do more about the current state of Villa than boo the team off & rant on here & twitter - The Trust may not be perfect, but it's probably the best you've got, and it is there for you to shape.
Tbh - I could go through this thread (more than many others) and pick out some key points to take forward already. It's a start.
It's also really weird as I am still just a H&V poster, & a Villa fan - I'm definitely not the voice of The Trust! I do just feel the need to respond when the name is called!
I too am not the voice of the Trust ...
...You may recall, when everything was kicking off in the early 2000's and several groups became established overnight (usually with a 'personality-cult' attached to them), the Trust was the 'voice of reason'; set up to provide a long-term 'place' for fans to get together and register their dissatisfaction at the way the club was being run (share-purchasing was part of the focus and it did buy a number; also constructive alternatives to the running of the club were proposed as well as an objective to have a fan-representative on the board).
It's still around, was a focal point for the construction of the McGregor statue and stilll has a voice - go here for more: http://www.villatrust.org.uk/
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I care absolutely about this club and the instant wailing and gnashing of teeth does help in getting it off your chest but poor decisions often result from anger and it's much better to take a
Considered and thoughtful approach as to what next.
I agree with that, but I don't think what we are seeing now in terms of anger is a result of insufficient consideration or gut reactions - this is our fourth season of poking around trying to keep out of the relegation places, and the last three seasons have been almost entirely about dreadful, dreadful football.
The only impressive thing from the last three years is the number of records we have broken - the sort of records you don't want to break.
The one thing that is needed at our football club though is visible signs of leadership. I know football is a different kind of business and I'm certainly not advocating a Whelan type gobshite but if we could have a Director of Football to provide some added nous to the boardroom and provide that leadership for us fans it would help enormously. It's as if there is a vacuum at the top and whilst we appreciate the times we go about our business quietly and without fuss there are times this club needs to be galvanized by a voice we can rally around and that for me is what's missing.
I don't know if it is the one thing, it is one of the things which would help.
Regarding Whelan, and going off on a bit of a tangent, we seem to have got a reputation as a team whose ambitions - despite what we might say they are - are actually all about avoiding relegation, and in doing so, to focus on low wage players.
If you are a neutral looking at us - you'd think, hmmm, will spend 6 or 7m very occasionally, runs a strict wage policy, buys a lot of players from the lower leagues or selling leagues, in how many ways is that actually any different from what Wigan Athletic did?
Remember, neutrals aren't going to give a toss about our nice ground or illustrious history like we would. I really do think that's the kind of image we are creating of ourselves. More worryingly, I think we're also heading to the same sort of reality as Wigan did.
We probably - probably - won't get relegated this season, but if it goes on like the last three years for much longer, and if the "shift the wage earners, get the cheap players in" delusion carries on as it has done (and why wouldn't it? they're not going to suddenly start pumping up the wage bill) then it just feels absolutely inevitable that at some point we'll go down.
Ultimately, to do well in the PL, you need good players. There's no avoiding that. That doesn't mean you need a team full of 15m players, but with a team full of lower league or cheap foreign players you are going to require a miracle, or an absolute genius of a manager to achieve much.
What scares me to death is that Faulkner and Lerner have decided to rein in the finances, they've decided on this path which fits in with the finances, that you really can do something with 5-10k a week players and youth team products, and believe that if they want it enough, if they say they believe in it enough - it will just happen.
It's like they think it is a scientific process. You take your best youth players, you buy in cheap performers from League One or Two, and you just wait a few seasons, and over the course of that time, they'll grow and improve. Like growing a plant or something, you water it and wait, and it grows.
It is staggeringly naive, and more than a little bit arrogant. Don't they think that if it were this easy, everyone would be doing it? Do they think the likes of Mike Ashley wouldn't pile into a policy that involved not spending money?
You might ask why lambert would buy into that.
Well, for Lambert, to get us mid table once or twice, with a cheap squad would be an achievement, as it would have been for Martinez. That's all he needs to do. He doesn't need to actually deliver success - the expectations have been lowered so hugely, what used to be considered barely acceptable for us has now become the mark of good management.
I'll bet now that, if at any point Lambert gets us to 9th or 10th, his stock will be high, and that's the point at which he'd bail. He's no mug.
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It's the board's fault for the club's malaise, but it's Paul Lambert's fault for bringing it onto the pitch. Nobody has convinced me that he's not a terrible tactician and man-manager. I am convinced, however, that these players can play better under a man who's a proper manager.
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Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
I really liked Chelt's post but I agree with these comments the more than anything.
We can point the finger at Randy for some of his managerial appointments and that's fair enough. He can't be accused of not investing though, that's ridiculous. Like Chelt's said, he's put in millions. Maybe the quality of some of the players that have come in over the past couple of season's are not what they should be and that's fair enough argument as well, but could we realistically expect him to carry spending £7-8m on every payer that came in? The spending and more importantly the wage bill needed to come down and I think everyone agrees with that. It's not been nice but it needed to be done.
I'd rather he hadn't got rid of most if not all of our best players and replaced them with inferior lower league players. That's a recipie for disaster, but that's what Lerner has actually done. Yes he's still spent money over the last 3 or so years but we've bought players who aren't PL quality, but what PL quality player will work for Villa with the wage structure we have under Lerner? He deserves criticism for that, because that's why we're in the brown stuff.
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Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
I really liked Chelt's post but I agree with these comments the more than anything.
We can point the finger at Randy for some of his managerial appointments and that's fair enough. He can't be accused of not investing though, that's ridiculous. Like Chelt's said, he's put in millions. Maybe the quality of some of the players that have come in over the past couple of season's are not what they should be and that's fair enough argument as well, but could we realistically expect him to carry spending £7-8m on every payer that came in? The spending and more importantly the wage bill needed to come down and I think everyone agrees with that. It's not been nice but it needed to be done.
I'd rather he hadn't got rid of most if not all of our best players and replaced them with inferior lower league players. That's a recipie for disaster, but that's what Lerner has actually done. Yes he's still spent money over the last 3 or so years but we've bought players who aren't PL quality, but what PL quality player will work for Villa with the wage structure we have under Lerner? He deserves criticism for that, because that's why we're in the brown stuff.
In fairness, we don't know what the wage structure is. Until we do, we're just speculating that we're poor payers and that may not be the case.
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Back then he thought we could quickly buy our way into the Champions League. Then came the oil money at Man City and that withered on the vine pretty quickly. Whilst I will happily point out that he has approached a number of aspects of running the club in an incredibly naïve manner, what more can you realistically ask of him? The man has sunk in hundreds of millions of pounds. We might have made a hash of how it was spent but you can’t lay too much of the blame for that at his door.
Finally, what can you do to remove a man who owns the club outright? Demand he sell? Brilliant, but who is he flogging it to? What are their intentions? And, most importantly, where are they? I am not apathetic, I am actually fed up with reading people demanding that he sell up to someone who will invest. He has invested. Lot’s. I am sure that if the next oligarch or sheikh off the rank wanted to buy us he would cheerfully sell up. But you can’t just pluck someone with a few billion off the shelf and tell them to start frittering all that money away on us. So we have Randy for the foreseeable and there is still a “better the devil you know” element at play for a bloke who seems pretty decent, if misguided on the playing side.
I really liked Chelt's post but I agree with these comments the more than anything.
We can point the finger at Randy for some of his managerial appointments and that's fair enough. He can't be accused of not investing though, that's ridiculous. Like Chelt's said, he's put in millions. Maybe the quality of some of the players that have come in over the past couple of season's are not what they should be and that's fair enough argument as well, but could we realistically expect him to carry spending £7-8m on every payer that came in? The spending and more importantly the wage bill needed to come down and I think everyone agrees with that. It's not been nice but it needed to be done.
I'd rather he hadn't got rid of most if not all of our best players and replaced them with inferior lower league players. That's a recipie for disaster, but that's what Lerner has actually done. Yes he's still spent money over the last 3 or so years but we've bought players who aren't PL quality, but what PL quality player will work for Villa with the wage structure we have under Lerner? He deserves criticism for that, because that's why we're in the brown stuff.
In fairness, we don't know what the wage structure is. Until we do, we're just speculating that we're poor payers and that may not be the case.
Well I'm guessing the wage structure is a pretty tight one considering the class of players we've bought over the last few years. Add that to the fact we've practically had a witch hunt of our highly paid players at the club all points to Villa only wanting to pay low wages to the playing staff. Also just last week Lambert was on record saying that the only reason Hutton isn't playing for Villa at the moment was because of his high wages. It shouldn't take a genius to work out our wage structure when you look at the facts.
It's the sole reason why the team has been so poor over the last few seasons. You pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
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Really good posts on this thread but three points I'd raise.
1: I have to disagree and say that apathy is a big factor with Villa fans at the moment. As a cliff face is worn away by the tide year after year, so we are worn down by wave upon wave of mediocrity. You can't be angry and militant all the time and eventually you just find something else to do with your precious time. I hate moaning, and it seems it's all I feel obliged to do regarding Villa at the moment, therefore I avoid posting as much as I used to because I don't want to subject others to the kind of posts I try to avoid, however justified. I just get very little joy out of the club I love with all my heart lately.
2: The board are absolutely responsible for our malaise. Yes, in many ways we do things right and I don't question Randy's integrity or intentions for a second. I do however question his judgement. We have not had a proper football based apparatus since he arrived. Thus money has been squandered, we've stumbled from one disastrous managerial regime to another with little thought on consistency and there are people way out of their depth in positions they should not be in. Good businessmen, but utterly clueless regarding the game. That is entirely Randy's fault. There are lots of good things to say about him but the fundamental issues are a sorry tale. We're only going backwards. It is just not good enough and Villa fans will put up with more than fans of clubs half our size would. I think they know that, the board, that's why they feel more comfortable than they should.
3: We don't owe Randy a penny. I often hear how we owe Randy a 9 figure sum. How is this so? Any debts accrued against the club are his own doing and a symptom of the years of mismanagement, lack of proper planning, lack of consistently and execution. Financially, he is Aston Villa. If he was to sell and took a loss, it's his doing and his subordinate's. Likewise, it's his prerogative to recoup that money if he wishes. But as he does so, he risks the stability and top flight status of the biggest club in 100 miles in any direction.
Never forget what a powerhouse this club was and should be, then look at the state we're in now. Not strengthening when it is essential, loaning a Wigan sub when we need a top playmaker (at the very least), recruiting players with very little calibre because they're cheap. It's like some nightmare where we're confirming to the mindless narrative clueless pundits and media hacks have had of us for ages.
Randy is a good man with a good heart and he wants what is best for Villa. He just has no idea how to go about that or employ the people to achieve it. For that reason and that reason alone I hope he sells up and takes any financial hit on the chin. He said he'd move on if he couldn't do the job. Well after four years of struggle, what other conclusion can be drawn? By all means, be a part of the club, have a role of some sort.
As far as I'm concerned he tried and will always be welcome. But it's time to hand over that "custodianship".
Very well said and I agree entirely.
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It's obvious that the wage bill has been worked on and like I said, it probably needed to be. If the days of paying the likes of Shay Given a small fortune are gone for the time being, then so be it. I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
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On the subject of apathy, I think this time last year we were in the bottom 3 and there was an element of a backs to the wall approach on the pitch which transmitted off the pitch and vice versa. It very much helped to get us out of the hole we were in.
This year we have been mid table for some time and quite often a club sleepwalks into danger without realising. Our sluggish performances and the lack of any real reaction from the fans over the last few weeks is reflective of this. Lambert's complacency has come across in his comments and he is the only mouthpiece from the club.
My impression is it is easier to build momentum if you can get a run going from a low position than turning things round if you go on a slow slide. West Ham have demonstrated this recently.
It does feel like Norwich could be the equivalent of the Bolton experience at VP if it goes badly on Sunday.
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It's obvious that the wage bill has been worked on and like I said, it probably needed to be. If the days of paying the likes of Shay Given a small fortune are gone for the time being, then so be it. I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Then why have we signed such poor players then? Why not aim for proper PL players?
It's because they're cheap - that's why they're at Villa.
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By no stretch of the imagination am I exonerating any of the people mentioned for the mess we find ourselves in. And I am sure there are some folks who are so worn down by events of recent years that they can't be bothered to fight it or worry about it any more.
I guess the reason I wanted to offer an alternative view to that given in the Evening Mail piece was that it is a long way from being the case for many of us. There are more ways to view things than "It is all fine and Dandy" or "Get out the protest placards".
A good example of apathy to me can be seen in Bordesley Green. No matter how ridiculous it gets you don't hear a whimper from them. They take it all with a shrug of the shoulders.
I don't presume to speak for anyone else. I just wanted to get my views over as to why I don't see that us not starting some form of witch hunt should be seen as a slight on the fans. I wanted to give some reasons why we aren't doing what we have done in the past.
The biggest disappointment in the last couple of years for me is how things have gone this season. After the abomination that was McLeish's reign, Randy put out a statement that gave me hope for the future. That we would see some root and branch changes that would be uncomfortable initially but would ultimately see us going in the direction we all want on the back of it.
That is why we haven't been kicking up a storm. That is why we have accepted a ration of shit last season. it was on the basis that was some silver lining in what were very dark clouds in the Christmas and New Year period. That's why most of us didn't demand his head after the Chelsea game.
And by the end of last season we felt like we had turned a corner. We were playing some decent stuff. It was the first time since MON's second season where I had the feeling that we were all pulling in the same direction again. That there was a togetherness at the club. And I think that is why this season has been such a kick in the academicals. Because we don't seem to have graduated beyond the guff we were prepared to accept for the greater good last year.
Like I said, to me this Summer is the acid test. The actions of the board and manager will tell us an awful lot as to whether we have taken our medication and are now looking to move on to where should be. If the board are happy to have the same ambitions as the Stoke's and Fulham's of the world. Of whether Lambert, with a decent budget and not having to rebuild a squad from scratch, can be the manager we hoped we were gettiing from Norwich.
I know it must seem as if some of us are forever advocating the giving of time, or citing stability, but to me it is about saying that they are starting to run out of goodwill. We are doing our bit. We are still turning up in droves despite the guff we are having to endure on the pitch.
As long as we get over the safety line this year, and I think we will, then that must be the line in the sand. No more of this constant battling at the wrong end of the table. No more being run on a shoestring. No more acting like a team just happy to be in the league. The finanical house is in order. Now we need to start behaving like a club of our manitude should.
Because if it isn't that line in the sand, and we are sat here in the early part of next season complaining about the same things, you can count me in for letting board and manager know that we won't stand for this any more.
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I hate moaning, and it seems it's all I feel obliged to do regarding Villa at the moment, therefore I avoid posting as much as I used to because I don't want to subject others to the kind of posts I try to avoid, however justified. I just get very little joy out of the club I love with all my heart lately.
This is how, in a nutshell, I feel. I simply don't have anything positive to say right now and there are more than enough people here who can moan for me. As a regular poster, I find myself spending most of my time in Off Topic now as the tedium of us a a footballing side has reduced my interest to that of a spectator.
The joy I get from my club now is primarily reserved for times gone by. After 4 years of relentless drudgery, I barely recognise my team.
Given the current state of affairs it seems somewhat churlish to recall the protests we instigated, when the team were in a far better state than we are now.
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It's obvious that the wage bill has been worked on and like I said, it probably needed to be. If the days of paying the likes of Shay Given a small fortune are gone for the time being, then so be it. I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Then why have we signed such poor players then? Why not aim for proper PL players?
It's because they're cheap - that's why they're at Villa.
No One could ever convince me that Gary Gardner is less worthy of a position in our midfield than Yacouba Sylla. We have filled our squad with below average players, money we could have saved if we'd used more of our youth set up. That's not saying they're all great but they're certainly no worse. Would Clark be any worse than El Comedy in midfield? He wouldn't, so give him a go. Less dross = freeing up more transfer kitty for better individuals required in various positions. That's the managers job.
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It's obvious that the wage bill has been worked on and like I said, it probably needed to be. If the days of paying the likes of Shay Given a small fortune are gone for the time being, then so be it. I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Then why have we signed such poor players then? Why not aim for proper PL players?
It's because they're cheap - that's why they're at Villa.
No One could ever convince me that Gary Gardner is less worthy of a position in our midfield than Yacouba Sylla. We have filled our squad with below average players, money we could have saved if we'd used more of our youth set up. That's not saying they're all great but they're certainly no worse. Would Clark be any worse than El Comedy in midfield? He wouldn't, so give him a go. Less dross = freeing up more transfer kitty for better individuals required in various positions. That's the managers job.
Agree
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Has Lambert stopped speaking to Kendrick again now?
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A contributing factor to the lack of real action on behalf of the fans is that to a man we all wanted this to work. When Randy landed he was the perfect owner and it is only over time his naievity has been found out. That doesnt mean we dont like him or hope he succeeds, on the contrary nothing would be better than us getting to where we belong with him in charge - that is why there is not an uprising as of yet, its very hard to protest or speak ill of someone you like.
Similarly, Faulkner seems an extremely amicable chap and is doing lots of things right but when the club is going so wrong responsiblity falls on his shoulders im afraid. I dont believe this is through a lack of effort or caring on his behalf though.
Finally Lambert, Everyone wanted him to be the man for Villa, make us into something to be proud of again. But he is also just not up to it I feel. Its galling because it looked for a while he would be. That doesnt make him a bad bloke though. I would hate him to get the McLeish treatment but i think its coming
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
This level of salary will not attract the decent players in this league. The players who will play for that type of dosh are exactly the ones who are currently playing at clubs that sit where they are in the league at this moment
Of all the clubs below us, I reckon there are probably around only six or seven players who command anything near what players may get playing for teams in and around the top six (Parker, Berbatov, Bellamy, Anelka, Crouch and Ireland).
This is why clubs sitting within reach of the relegation spots are where they are now. We are no different. With our current strategy, we also belong in this group and at some stage, the trap door will open on us for relegation.
To even tread water in this league the club will have to review this policy.
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There is something else which bothers me about asking Lerner to sell up; we owe him about £130m. That debt is due to be paid up by 2017, what happens if it isn't?
When Randy acquired us we were relatively debt free and he paid £64 million ish. Now a few years later he will be able to sell the club for £200 million and the club is also in debt to him for £130 million. If that's right what a fucking business man he is...
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Good post Chelts.
The summer indeed will be the acid test but I can't seriously think of one logical reason why Lambert should be the man to be given extra funds. In my eyes he's simply not good enough. Giving him one more season to see if he can become the manager he was at Norwich is a very weak argument when week in, week out, we show absolutely no signs of improving, if anything we're getting worse.
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I have one question..Why didn't Barry take the penalty
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Good post Chelts.
The summer indeed will be the acid test but I can't seriously think of one logical reason why Lambert should be the man to be given extra funds. In my eyes he's simply not good enough. Giving him one more season to see if he can become the manager he was at Norwich is a very weak argument when week in, week out, we show absolutely no signs of improving, if anything we're getting worse.
My thoughts precisely.
I am convinced the job and needs of a 'big city club' are just too great for him.
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I have one question..Why didn't Barry take the penalty
This has been answered. It was 2010.
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
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On the subject of apathy, I think this time last year we were in the bottom 3 and there was an element of a backs to the wall approach on the pitch which transmitted off the pitch and vice versa. It very much helped to get us out of the hole we were in.
This year we have been mid table for some time and quite often a club sleepwalks into danger without realising. Our sluggish performances and the lack of any real reaction from the fans over the last few weeks is reflective of this. Lambert's complacency has come across in his comments and he is the only mouthpiece from the club.
My impression is it is easier to build momentum if you can get a run going from a low position than turning things round if you go on a slow slide. West Ham have demonstrated this recently.
It does feel like Norwich could be the equivalent of the Bolton experience at VP if it goes badly on Sunday.
This is what I've been saying, there seemed to be a delusion at VP that we were in mid table, all is well, when in reality we were sitting on the edge of a precipice waiting to slip off and I fear we might have started that slip and be accelerating after the Norwich game.
I just hope not, and we grab onto something to halt the fall. However, I can't see Lambert having the ability to do this.
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
Regardless of the actual figures, it's hard not to imagine Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla etc are going to be low wages, relative to the rest of the PL.
The club keep telling us we need to cut the wage bill. That is a main reason we are buying players from the lower leagues.
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
So what do you think is peanuts is for premier league player?
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
Regardless of the actual figures, it's hard not to imagine Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla etc are going to be low wages, relative to the rest of the PL.
The club keep telling us we need to cut the wage bill. That is a main reason we are buying players from the lower leagues.
Westwood, Weimann and Lowton all signed new, improved contracts in the summer. I doubt any are are on less than 25k.
I'd imagine the main reason we're buying players from the lower leagues is they're worth taking a chance on and Lambert thinks they can develop.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
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I'd like to know David Woodhall's thoughts. He tends to have his finger on the pulse of Villa fans everywhere. Personally, I'll be guided by him. If he thinks we should all band together to put a little bit of pressure on the board, then I think that's what we should do. If he believes it's best for the club to give Paul Lambert more time, then I'll fully support that stance, too.
Come on admit that you are Dave Woodhall?
I was wondering what happened to him.
Hahaha. I can see why you found that amusing. But please allow me to explain.
For all my life I've been a deeply religious man who has sought the guidance of our good book and from those that have dedicated their lives to understanding it fully. As a result, I find my life to be very fulfilling and very simple knowing that I had walked the righteous path set out before me.
Similarly, I seek guidance as to how best to set right our grand club. Whereas a congregation won't enter into debate amongst itself (although I have heard the odd blasphemous comment outside of mass that can be humorous if tempered with the knowledge that we will be forgiven), it tends to be led by one man. And I believe the same should be true of our support base. In my years as an Aston Villa supporter, it's become clear that Mr.Woodhall has a balanced perspective that isn't easy to come by. He seems to know when to calm his congregation and when to administer a sterner hand.
And I respect that.
I do apologise for taking up so much space on these pages since joining.
PS...I also offer my humblest apologies for my internet name. My son (who isn't as guided by the light as I) set all this up for me and, clearly, has a different sense of humour to what I would have expected of him.
With all due respect to your religious beliefs, IMHO anyone who believes in God will believe anything an authority figure tells them....
Sir, a shall not partake in stheological sabre-rattling with you although I respect your opinion and your right to have that opinion.
I have to say that I was rather taken, as many seem to be, with Mr.Cheltenhamlion's post. Bravo to you, sir.
I also found myself agreeing rather emphatically with much of what Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered.
I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
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Of me lambert is the same as moyes - ok at a club of a certain size but totally out of their depth at a bigger club .
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
Regardless of the actual figures, it's hard not to imagine Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla etc are going to be low wages, relative to the rest of the PL.
The club keep telling us we need to cut the wage bill. That is a main reason we are buying players from the lower leagues.
Westwood, Weimann and Lowton all signed new, improved contracts in the summer. I doubt any are are on less than 25k.
I'd imagine the main reason we're buying players from the lower leagues is they're worth taking a chance on and Lambert thinks they can develop.
I would bet everything I own the likes of Lowton and Westwood are on nothing like 25k a week. Nothing like that much. Taking someone from Crewe, on the wages that move would imply, then bumping them up to over 25k a week is the sort of money wasting that got us in this mess in the first place.
Really? You don't think wages play a massive part? They've as good as told us they do.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
And it should be 'effect a positive change', not 'affect'. I think 'affecting change' is pretty much what the club is doing at the moment.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
My goodness. I care neither for the welcome nor the language.
I assure you sir, that my offerings to this topic are far from "taking the Michael" (as I'd far prefer if you don't mind). I'm simply adding another claret and blue toned voice to a chorus that already appears to be a little beyond a diminuendo already.
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Of me lambert is the same as moyes - ok at a club of a certain size but totally out of their depth at a bigger club .
Notwithstanding that I will offend the Honourable Mr Tiny Asretrumpet with bad words here I would suggest that you are talking out of your bottom orifice Eastters! Mouse went to Champions and one of the richest clubs in the world. Lambert came to us having finished higher than us with Norwich and despite the fact that historically we are a bigger club than Norwich at the moment we have a team and operating conditions that make us Norwich's equals. So he has been not challenged in managing us as a "big club".
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
And it should be 'effect a positive change', not 'affect'. I think 'affecting change' is pretty much what the club is doing at the moment.
Also, isn't the term "Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered" an example of a split infinitive? Jesus, don't these kids go to school?
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
And it should be 'effect a positive change', not 'affect'. I think 'affecting change' is pretty much what the club is doing at the moment.
Also, isn't the term "Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered" an example of a split infinitive? Jesus, don't these kids go to school?
Uh oh. TA stated he was deeply religious and now you have brought Jesus into it. But seeing as you have, if he were a Villa fan, what would Jesus do?
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There's no IF about it, of course Jesus/God is/are a Villa fan/Villa fans!!
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
And it should be 'effect a positive change', not 'affect'. I think 'affecting change' is pretty much what the club is doing at the moment.
Also, isn't the term "Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered" an example of a split infinitive? Jesus, don't these kids go to school?
Although restricted in my education somewhat by my father's requirement to travel for his work (I failed my 11-plus meaning I missed out on going to a "proper school"), I do believe my grasp of the Queens English is firm. No mean feat having spent the last 22 years in the colonies where the language is frequently mangled almost beyond recognition.
Let us return to the subject at hand, shall we?
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Regardless of the actual figures, it's hard not to imagine Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla etc are going to be low wages, relative to the rest of the PL.
The club keep telling us we need to cut the wage bill. That is a main reason we are buying players from the lower leagues.
Westwood, Weimann and Lowton all signed new, improved contracts in the summer. I doubt any are are on less than 25k.
I'd imagine the main reason we're buying players from the lower leagues is they're worth taking a chance on and Lambert thinks they can develop.
I would bet everything I own the likes of Lowton and Westwood are on nothing like 25k a week. Nothing like that much. Taking someone from Crewe, on the wages that move would imply, then bumping them up to over 25k a week is the sort of money wasting that got us in this mess in the first place.
Really? You don't think wages play a massive part? They've as good as told us they do.
Of course the wages are an issue, just as they are at every club but to say we're paying peanuts is unfounded. Of the players you mentioned, three got improved contracts in the summer, Bacuna only joined in the summer and Sylla didn't get an improved contract. Can you imagine the disharmony in the dressing room with Gabby on 55/60k, Benteke on 50k, Vlaar must be on around 40k and everybody else on crumbs, I don't see it. Look at our turnover (90m?) and calculate 60% which is spent on wages, that's around 54m. That's a hell of a lot of money to share out even taking into account the deadwood.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
My goodness. I care neither for the welcome nor the language.
I assure you sir, that my offerings to this topic are far from "taking the Michael" (as I'd far prefer if you don't mind). I'm simply adding another claret and blue toned voice to a chorus that already appears to be a little beyond a diminuendo already.
Hello again Troy.
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Of me lambert is the same as moyes - ok at a club of a certain size but totally out of their depth at a bigger club .
Notwithstanding that I will offend the Honourable Mr Tiny Asretrumpet with bad words here I would suggest that you are talking out of your bottom orifice Eastters! Mouse went to Champions and one of the richest clubs in the world. Lambert came to us having finished higher than us with Norwich and despite the fact that historically we are a bigger club than Norwich at the moment we have a team and operating conditions that make us Norwich's equals. So he has been not challenged in managing us as a "big club".
Moving from a club of Norwich size to villa is a huge step - there is a big difference in size history and expectation at villa to Norwich and I believe lambert is out of his depth and the club is too big for him .
I believe Moyes is also out of his depth at man utd and the club are too big for him as well.
Many managers can do well at certain sized clubs but then make the step up to bigger clubs and struggle.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
My goodness. I care neither for the welcome nor the language.
I assure you sir, that my offerings to this topic are far from "taking the Michael" (as I'd far prefer if you don't mind). I'm simply adding another claret and blue toned voice to a chorus that already appears to be a little beyond a diminuendo already.
Hello again Troy.
oooh, is it Troy Eccles. Been a while ain't it?
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*Takes off deerstalker and lights pipe*
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
It's not that fucking Swann bloke again is it?
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*Takes off deerstalker and lights pipe*
polishes shotgun, sips on an aged Bourbon
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Having read his posts again it's not. I don't feel the urge to say 'a handbag?'.
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No mean feat having spent the last 22 years in the colonies where the language is frequently mangled almost beyond recognition.
Having very strong and irrevocable links to our former colonies in the sub-continent I feel deeply offended by your insinuation that Her Majesty's English is being destroyed out there. I would suggest to the contrary and suggest that the problem is more prevalent in this country.
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Of me lambert is the same as moyes - ok at a club of a certain size but totally out of their depth at a bigger club .
Notwithstanding that I will offend the Honourable Mr Tiny Asretrumpet with bad words here I would suggest that you are talking out of your bottom orifice Eastters! Mouse went to Champions and one of the richest clubs in the world. Lambert came to us having finished higher than us with Norwich and despite the fact that historically we are a bigger club than Norwich at the moment we have a team and operating conditions that make us Norwich's equals. So he has been not challenged in managing us as a "big club".
Moving from a club of Norwich size to villa is a huge step - there is a big difference in size history and expectation at villa to Norwich and I believe lambert is out of his depth and the club is too big for him .
I believe Moyes is also out of his depth at man utd and the club are too big for him as well.
Many managers can do well at certain sized clubs but then make the step up to bigger clubs and struggle.
Well I will agree on the fans expectations. Yes we do expect better and more than Norwich however our owners and management have provided him with prevailing conditions that can hardly be described as better/bigger than Norwich.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
My goodness. I care neither for the welcome nor the language.
I assure you sir, that my offerings to this topic are far from "taking the Michael" (as I'd far prefer if you don't mind). I'm simply adding another claret and blue toned voice to a chorus that already appears to be a little beyond a diminuendo already.
Hello again Troy.
Goodbye again Troy.
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Gabby on 55/60k,
I think I find that more depressing than the thought of Rooney on a squillion quid a week.
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Gabby on 55/60k,
I think I find that more depressing than the thought of Rooney on a squillion quid a week.
I think you'll find a lot Man U fans thinking quite the opposite this morning. Rooney was about as effective as Jordan Bowery last night.
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Also, isn't the term "Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered" an example of a split infinitive? Jesus, don't these kids go to school?
I don't think it is. The infinitive form of the verb would be "to proffer" and an example of a split infinitive would be "to kindly proffer". The form of the verb used by Arsetrumpet was not an infinitive.
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
So what do you think is peanuts is for premier league player?
I've no idea, I'm not even going to even guess what our players are on, but one thing I will do, I can guess that Libor Kozak didn't leave Lazio to earn bloody £20k a week over here.
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
Regardless of the actual figures, it's hard not to imagine Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla etc are going to be low wages, relative to the rest of the PL.
The club keep telling us we need to cut the wage bill. That is a main reason we are buying players from the lower leagues.
I'm sure they are on low-ish wages, but in reality, we don't know how much, and besides, you've picked out three or four names there. What about the rest?
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Kozak wouldn't have been on much at Lazio. He was their third choice striker and Lotito is notoriously tight.
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Kozak wouldn't have been on much at Lazio. He was their third choice striker and Lotito is notoriously tight.
He was also their top scorer in the Europa League. What do you reckon we are paying him then?
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
And it should be 'effect a positive change', not 'affect'. I think 'affecting change' is pretty much what the club is doing at the moment.
Also, isn't the term "Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered" an example of a split infinitive? Jesus, don't these kids go to school?
Actually, no I don't think it is.
"To boldly go" is a classic example of a split infinitive; whereas "kindly offered" is just a good use of an adverb.
just saying, like ....
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
And it should be 'effect a positive change', not 'affect'. I think 'affecting change' is pretty much what the club is doing at the moment.
Also, isn't the term "Mr.Mazrim kindly proffered" an example of a split infinitive? Jesus, don't these kids go to school?
Actually, no I don't think it is.
"To boldly go" is a classic example of a split infinitive; whereas "kindly offered" is just a good use of an adverb.
just saying, like ....
Am am lost...
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3: We don't owe Randy a penny. I often hear how we owe Randy a 9 figure sum. How is this so? Any debts accrued against the club are his own doing and a symptom of the years of mismanagement, lack of proper planning, lack of consistently and execution. Financially, he is Aston Villa. If he was to sell and took a loss, it's his doing and his subordinate's. Likewise, it's his prerogative to recoup that money if he wishes. But as he does so, he risks the stability and top flight status of the biggest club in 100 miles in any direction.
Never forget what a powerhouse this club was and should be, then look at the state we're in now. Not strengthening when it is essential, loaning a Wigan sub when we need a top playmaker (at the very least), recruiting players with very little calibre because they're cheap. It's like some nightmare where we're confirming to the mindless narrative clueless pundits and media hacks have had of us for ages.
Randy is a good man with a good heart and he wants what is best for Villa. He just has no idea how to go about that or employ the people to achieve it. For that reason and that reason alone I hope he sells up and takes any financial hit on the chin. He said he'd move on if he couldn't do the job. Well after four years of struggle, what other conclusion can be drawn? By all means, be a part of the club, have a role of some sort.
As far as I'm concerned he tried and will always be welcome. But it's time to hand over that "custodianship".
We owe money to his US company as far as I understand it. The club is servicing the interest, but I imagine the loans were secured against club assets.
The paring to the bone of team investment suggests that the loans have dried up, leaving us to operate on income alone. He may well have a good heart, but he's also a businessman. If it comes to cutting his losses, he's going to want as much money as possible back from this investment I imagine. His actions regarding team investment over the last few years is evidence of this in my view.
Perhaps I'm worrying over nothing, but I'd like it if the issue of money owed by us to a Lerner company could be explained properly.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
My goodness. I care neither for the welcome nor the language.
I assure you sir, that my offerings to this topic are far from "taking the Michael" (as I'd far prefer if you don't mind). I'm simply adding another claret and blue toned voice to a chorus that already appears to be a little beyond a diminuendo already.
Hello again Troy.
Goodbye again Troy.
Ohdearwhatapitynevermind.
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I have waited far too long, it would seem, to allow myself to be exposed to such eloquence. What must one do from such a point in time to get such thinkers together with the influence and persuasive power of people like Mr.Woodhall in order to charge the masses with just the right amount of energy to affect a positive change for our club?
Just a note - it sounds quite a lot like you're taking the piss.
Just so you know, we've noticed.
My goodness. I care neither for the welcome nor the language.
I assure you sir, that my offerings to this topic are far from "taking the Michael" (as I'd far prefer if you don't mind). I'm simply adding another claret and blue toned voice to a chorus that already appears to be a little beyond a diminuendo already.
Hello again Troy.
Goodbye again Troy.
Ohdearwhatapitynevermind.
It was entertaining whilst it lasted, did you have to ban him?
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Yes. He's a banned user using yet another ID to register. Automatic ban. Quite why folks don't realise we will find out quickly who they are is beyond me.
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3: We don't owe Randy a penny. I often hear how we owe Randy a 9 figure sum. How is this so? Any debts accrued against the club are his own doing and a symptom of the years of mismanagement, lack of proper planning, lack of consistently and execution. Financially, he is Aston Villa. If he was to sell and took a loss, it's his doing and his subordinate's. Likewise, it's his prerogative to recoup that money if he wishes. But as he does so, he risks the stability and top flight status of the biggest club in 100 miles in any direction.
Never forget what a powerhouse this club was and should be, then look at the state we're in now. Not strengthening when it is essential, loaning a Wigan sub when we need a top playmaker (at the very least), recruiting players with very little calibre because they're cheap. It's like some nightmare where we're confirming to the mindless narrative clueless pundits and media hacks have had of us for ages.
Randy is a good man with a good heart and he wants what is best for Villa. He just has no idea how to go about that or employ the people to achieve it. For that reason and that reason alone I hope he sells up and takes any financial hit on the chin. He said he'd move on if he couldn't do the job. Well after four years of struggle, what other conclusion can be drawn? By all means, be a part of the club, have a role of some sort.
As far as I'm concerned he tried and will always be welcome. But it's time to hand over that "custodianship".
We owe money to his US company as far as I understand it. The club is servicing the interest, but I imagine the loans were secured against club assets.
The paring to the bone of team investment suggests that the loans have dried up, leaving us to operate on income alone. He may well have a good heart, but he's also a businessman. If it comes to cutting his losses, he's going to want as much money as possible back from this investment I imagine. His actions regarding team investment over the last few years is evidence of this in my view.
Perhaps I'm worrying over nothing, but I'd like it if the issue of money owed by us to a Lerner company could be explained properly.
Yes but for all intents and purposes there is no "us". We don't own anything so don't owe anything, Randy owns everything. He owes the money to his trust and he can move money between his assets as he sees fit. The debt is his and his alone, unless a new buyer takes it on.
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Yes. He's a banned user using yet another ID to register. Automatic ban. Quite why folks don't realise we will find out quickly who they are is beyond me.
Why was he banned?
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I doubt the players are earning peanuts though. It might be what you want to think, but it's not what I think.
Paying 15 - 20 grand a week nowadays in the premier league is just that - peanuts.
Where have you got those figures from or are you plucking them out the air to suit your own argument?
Regardless of the actual figures, it's hard not to imagine Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla etc are going to be low wages, relative to the rest of the PL.
The club keep telling us we need to cut the wage bill. That is a main reason we are buying players from the lower leagues.
I'm sure they are on low-ish wages, but in reality, we don't know how much, and besides, you've picked out three or four names there. What about the rest?
Well, ok, regarding the rest I'd imagine the only ones on what would be considered above average PL wages would be Gabby, Benteke (maybe) and possibly Delph because he's on a MON era contract.
Obviously, I am excluding the ones we've sent to train with the kids.
The likes of Vlaar are not going to be picking up monstrous money. The average eredivisie salary is supposed - on a quick bit of research - to be around 300k Euros gross a year. That's the equivalent of, what, 5k a week? 6k?
And that's precisely why that is one of the places we shop, along with Belgium and the lower leagues in this country.
Ultimately, the proof is they've significantly reduced the wage bill.
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Yes. He's a banned user using yet another ID to register. Automatic ban. Quite why folks don't realise we will find out quickly who they are is beyond me.
Why was he banned?
For going through a loop like this:
- acts like absolute bell end
- gets asked not to
- ignores
- gets banned
- goes away for a bit
- comes back, "please can i come back in, I've changed"
- is allowed back in
Only to then go right back to the start of the loop again.
It's tedious, and believe me, you do have to make an absolute pain of yourself to get a permanent ban on here.
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Yes but for all intents and purposes there is no "us". We don't own anything so don't owe anything, Randy owns everything. He owes the money to his trust and he can move money between his assets as he sees fit. The debt is his and his alone, unless a new buyer takes it on.
The debt is from the club to the Lerner family trust or whichever vehicle it comes through (RAL or some other company of the family trust). Villa is a limited company, it isn't Randy in the sense of the club = his. They are two seperate things, legally.
The club is in debt to RAL. The fact he owns the club doesn't mean that the debt is his. It's not the same thing. But, you're right he can shift debt and loans between them as he likes.
Also, I have no idea how the Lerner family trust is structured, either, so god knows who those debts are to exactly, it might just be Randy, it might be his mother and sister, god knows.
I think the way in which there is an "us" to go back to what Stu said is that the only bit of the Lerner family empire that we really give a shit about is the bit that holds Aston Villa.
To be fair to Randy, he has written off a lot of the loans in any case - lets be honest, the only way he'd ever get them back would be if someone bought the club and was prepared to pay enough for the club and to service the loans. It's hard to see that happening,.
That contrasts with Mike Ashley, for example, who apparently has not done the same with Newcastle, they keep the club in debt to him (or his company).
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Yes. He's a banned user using yet another ID to register. Automatic ban. Quite why folks don't realise we will find out quickly who they are is beyond me.
Reminds me of an exchange from Manhunter:
Hannibal Lecter: How did you catch me?
Will Graham: You had disadvantages.
Hannibal Lecter: What disadvantages?
Will Graham: You're insane.
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3: We don't owe Randy a penny. I often hear how we owe Randy a 9 figure sum. How is this so? Any debts accrued against the club are his own doing and a symptom of the years of mismanagement, lack of proper planning, lack of consistently and execution. Financially, he is Aston Villa. If he was to sell and took a loss, it's his doing and his subordinate's. Likewise, it's his prerogative to recoup that money if he wishes. But as he does so, he risks the stability and top flight status of the biggest club in 100 miles in any direction.
Never forget what a powerhouse this club was and should be, then look at the state we're in now. Not strengthening when it is essential, loaning a Wigan sub when we need a top playmaker (at the very least), recruiting players with very little calibre because they're cheap. It's like some nightmare where we're confirming to the mindless narrative clueless pundits and media hacks have had of us for ages.
Randy is a good man with a good heart and he wants what is best for Villa. He just has no idea how to go about that or employ the people to achieve it. For that reason and that reason alone I hope he sells up and takes any financial hit on the chin. He said he'd move on if he couldn't do the job. Well after four years of struggle, what other conclusion can be drawn? By all means, be a part of the club, have a role of some sort.
As far as I'm concerned he tried and will always be welcome. But it's time to hand over that "custodianship".
We owe money to his US company as far as I understand it. The club is servicing the interest, but I imagine the loans were secured against club assets.
The paring to the bone of team investment suggests that the loans have dried up, leaving us to operate on income alone. He may well have a good heart, but he's also a businessman. If it comes to cutting his losses, he's going to want as much money as possible back from this investment I imagine. His actions regarding team investment over the last few years is evidence of this in my view.
Perhaps I'm worrying over nothing, but I'd like it if the issue of money owed by us to a Lerner company could be explained properly.
Yes but for all intents and purposes there is no "us". We don't own anything so don't owe anything, Randy owns everything. He owes the money to his trust and he can move money between his assets as he sees fit. The debt is his and his alone, unless a new buyer takes it on.
I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
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Kozak wouldn't have been on much at Lazio. He was their third choice striker and Lotito is notoriously tight.
He was also their top scorer in the Europa League. What do you reckon we are paying him then?
30k at most. I'd guess at 20k though, purely because I don't think Lazio would've been paying him very much.
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I have though about this Kendrick initiative and I smell a rodent. I think Randy and Faulkner are scared witless at the prospect of having to find another manager. Faulkner has gone through his Readers Digest Business Management Guide and re read the chapter on "how to avoid things happening you don't want to happen" and he has put a felt pen highlighter through the words "be proactive". What he dreads happening is another Bolton. I bet he has nightmares about that game. He likes to think the fans are manipulable but when their anger shows he runs for cover. So how does he prevent another Bolton eruption of spontaneous anger? He gets some sort of fan forum set up to dissipate the naked anger. A local newspaper and a local journalist could appear to sow the seeds of the idea.
As for the concept of a body of fans being consulted by the board I think it is a non starter because, as I posted elsewhere it is all about leopards and spots. We will not change the fact that the club and the fans are being battered by a perfect storm generated by an owner who has lost interest, a chief executive who would need surgery to get a football idea into his head and a manager who is now reduced to a one item agenda of damage limitation to save his career.
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As usual, I agree with Brian.
Some folk here though are buddybuddy with our CEO, and that's not such a great thing if you want change. Who's going to post on here that PF must go etc etc etc then chat to him in the bar after work?
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Its the MON syndrome Ian. Make lots of friends because friends protect you whether you deserve to be protected or not.
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I have though about this Kendrick initiative and I smell a rodent. I think Randy and Faulkner are scared witless at the prospect of having to find another manager. Faulkner has gone through his Readers Digest Business Management Guide and re read the chapter on "how to avoid things happening you don't want to happen" and he has put a felt pen highlighter through the words "be proactive". What he dreads happening is another Bolton. I bet he has nightmares about that game. He likes to think the fans are manipulable but when their anger shows he runs for cover. So how does he prevent another Bolton eruption of spontaneous anger? He gets some sort of fan forum set up to dissipate the naked anger. A local newspaper and a local journalist could appear to sow the seeds of the idea.
As for the concept of a body of fans being consulted by the board I think it is a non starter because, as I posted elsewhere it is all about leopards and spots. We will not change the fact that the club and the fans are being battered by a perfect storm generated by an owner who has lost interest, a chief executive who would need surgery to get a football idea into his head and a manager who is now reduced to a one item agenda of damage limitation to save his career.
With you for most of the first para Brian - said as much myself in an earlier thread.
If this is an insider plot it could backfire when the fans who try the reasonable rapport path discover it is a ruse they will have them turn as well.
Your reasons for it being a non-starter (Lerner disinterest etc) in last para is frighteningly accurate but some of us want to try and work with them.
Not sure what the alternatives, at this stage of the season, for protest my be? The Season Ticket boycott is months away; not turning up pointless as we are still counted; booing seems churlish; protests and marches outside the ground make us look numpties etc etc
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As usual, I agree with Brian.
Some folk here though are buddybuddy with our CEO, and that's not such a great thing if you want change. Who's going to post on here that PF must go etc etc etc then chat to him in the bar after work?
I agree with Brian in the most part but want to see something put directly to the people who run this club. Then let rip.
I am never likely to be drinking with our CEO unless he's paying of course! Trouble is I get argumentative when in my cups ;-)
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
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As usual, I agree with Brian.
Some folk here though are buddybuddy with our CEO, and that's not such a great thing if you want change. Who's going to post on here that PF must go etc etc etc then chat to him in the bar after work?
Forgive me if I am wrong, Ian, but surely it wasn't too long ago you were taking every opportunity to get "buddybuddy" with the leadership yourself.
Just as someone else in the recent posts of this thread was, too.
Short memories.
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Kozak wouldn't have been on much at Lazio. He was their third choice striker and Lotito is notoriously tight.
He was also their top scorer in the Europa League. What do you reckon we are paying him then?
30k at most. I'd guess at 20k though, purely because I don't think Lazio would've been paying him very much.
I reckon that we're paying him more than £20k a week otherwise he would have stayed where he was. But i'm guessing, just like you are.
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I have though about this Kendrick initiative and I smell a rodent. I think Randy and Faulkner are scared witless at the prospect of having to find another manager. Faulkner has gone through his Readers Digest Business Management Guide and re read the chapter on "how to avoid things happening you don't want to happen" and he has put a felt pen highlighter through the words "be proactive". What he dreads happening is another Bolton. I bet he has nightmares about that game. He likes to think the fans are manipulable but when their anger shows he runs for cover. So how does he prevent another Bolton eruption of spontaneous anger? He gets some sort of fan forum set up to dissipate the naked anger. A local newspaper and a local journalist could appear to sow the seeds of the idea.
As for the concept of a body of fans being consulted by the board I think it is a non starter because, as I posted elsewhere it is all about leopards and spots. We will not change the fact that the club and the fans are being battered by a perfect storm generated by an owner who has lost interest, a chief executive who would need surgery to get a football idea into his head and a manager who is now reduced to a one item agenda of damage limitation to save his career.
You do cynicism very well. Do you have any other modes?
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
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My own personal opinion is that Heroes and Villains carries as much clout as any fan group sitting around a table. With my new phone I follow H and V most of the time and I never cease to be amazed at the level of articulation, passion and sheer common sense which comes from these threads. You can see the fingerprints of H and V all over newspaper articles and broadcasts. The one the other day about Ron Vlaar's importance to the team was lifted wholesale by the Daily Mirror. The players read what gets posted on here and so probably do most of the staff at VP.
Thus I say to those of you who do want to use the moment to make overdue complaint to the powers that be at Villa, Teddy Roosevelt's maxim Walk softly and carry a big stick would seem good advice. The walking softly being the fan meetings with the club but the big stick is the crowd when they have had enough.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
Remember he operated a credit card company and as far as I know credit card companies charge everything to the end user. That means the retailer and the the card holder. In our case the club and fans represent those two parties.
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I am deeply cynical about most things if not everything. I feel it is more honest to write the way I genuinely feel than to seek approval by couching my observations any other way.
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I am deeply cynical about most things if not everything. I feel it is more honest to write the way I genuinely feel than to seek approval by couching my observations any other way.
Don't change, I always look out for your posts.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
Try googling Aston Villa accounts for a start and he doesn't have to be either.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
What used those Browns people warn us about years ago?
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I am deeply cynical about most things if not everything. I feel it is more honest to write the way I genuinely feel than to seek approval by couching my observations any other way.
Cynicism grows with age Brian i find myself cynical about almost everything because when you get past a certain age you've almost certainly been there before and recognise it for what it is. It really starts with Father Christmas and its all down hill from there.
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I am deeply cynical about most things if not everything. I feel it is more honest to write the way I genuinely feel than to seek approval by couching my observations any other way.
And from the heart I note and that's how fans should be.
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Cynicism grows with age Brian i find myself cynical about almost everything because when you get past a certain age you've almost certainly been there before and recognise it for what it is. It really starts with Father Christmas and its all down hill from there.
What! Are you saying Randy is not Father Christmas?
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
What used those Browns people warn us about years ago?
True, we were all blinded by the bright future...
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
Well said :)
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Just on the Finances issue, a few things that do not sit easy with me. Can I preface this by saying I accept, like the majority here, that things got out of hand before 2010 and there had to be a revision of the wage bill. Still:
1. We made huge profits on Downing, Milner, Young and Barry. We also, presumably, were losing some of our highest earners. Those deals therefore represented really good business for Aston Villa. However, The legacy of these to Aston Villa is a woeful squad. How could we manage to screw up so spectacularly? Surely that money should have been invested in the Youngs, Milners and Downings of the future? This would have been good business and good football-wise. This is why I am starting to reappraise (slightly) my view of MON. Some of the worst decisions were made after he left (Given, Hutton, Jenas, N'Zogbia, Makoun and possibly also Bent). Those post 2010 decisions have been disastrous. Ageing players on high wages and no re-sale value. Our answer? Untried players on a shoestring. From the frying pan to the fire. No wonder we are struggling.
2. I thought the whole point of it being so important we stayed in the League last year was the big TV deal. Presumably we are taking in much more this year on account of this and, with a reduced wage bill, surely this means it is in our interests to start speculating again? Why risk that revenue and Premier League status yet again when we must be financially better off now. If we aren't financially more secure now why not? If revenue is up and wages are down and we are still trimming wages, where the fuck is the money going?
3. Tied in to both above really. Success on the pitch brings financial rewards in terms of prize-money, sponsorship, TV, Europe etc. In my view, paying peanuts for the type of very average players we have will ensure we remain in the bottom half, drifting further away from our glory days (which we can't trade on forever. Chelsea are already notching up the trophies, Man City are now accumulating them too. Who will be next?), and consequently hitting impacting our prize money, tv and sponsorship revenue. Most importantly, fail to strive for the best and you are sure to fail.
Remind me again, why are we debating whether or not Randy knows how to run a football club and is good with finance/business? I think the answers are pretty apparent.
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Just on the Finances issue, a few things that do not sit easy with me. Can I preface this by saying I accept, like the majority here, that things got out of hand before 2010 and there had to be a revision of the wage bill. Still:
1. We made huge profits on Downing, Milner, Young and Barry. We also, presumably, were losing some of our highest earners. Those deals therefore represented really good business for Aston Villa. However, The legacy of these to Aston Villa is a woeful squad. How could we manage to screw up so spectacularly? Surely that money should have been invested in the Youngs, Milners and Downings of the future? This would have been good business and good football-wise. This is why I am starting to reappraise (slightly) my view of MON. Some of the worst decisions were made after he left (Given, Hutton, Jenas, N'Zogbia, Makoun and possibly also Bent). Those post 2010 decisions have been disastrous. Aging players on high wages and no re-sale value.
2. I thought the whole point of it being so important we stayed in the League last year was the big TV deal. Presumably we are taking in much more this year on account of this and, with a reduced wage bill, surely this means it is in our interests to start speculating again? Why risk that revenue and Premier League status yet again when we must be financially better off now. If we aren't financially more secure now why not? If revenue is up and wages are down and we are still trimming wages, where the fuck is the money going?
3. Tied in to both above really. Success on the pitch brings financial rewards in terms of prize-money, sponsorship, TV, Europe etc. In my view, paying peanuts for the type of very average players we have will ensure we remain in the bottom half, drifting further away from our glory days (which we can't trade on forever. Chelsea are already notching up the trophies, Man City are nor accumulating them too. Who will be next?), and consequently hitting impacting our prize money, tv and sponsorship revenue. Most importantly, fail to strive for the best and you are sure to fail.
Remind me again, why are we debating whether or not Randy knows how to run a football club and Finance? I think the answers are pretty apparent.
Summed it up better than I could have. With TV money up and wages down if we are making a serious loss now we are truly in the soft stuff.
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
Well said :)
I have missed loads. Who is ' Old father cunty chops?" Great name by the way.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
Speak for yourself. I might not agree with a lot of what he has done but I wouldn't just use a broad brush to describe his ability to run a football club. He's done good things, he's invested heavily and the club has represented itself well outside of the on field events. He appointed a manager that you, me and many others approved of. That it hasn't worked (yet) doesn't make him a bad owner or show an inability to run a football club. There are plenty or worse examples out there of exactly what you are trying to describe and Randy would be a long way down that list.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
Speak for yourself. I might not agree with a lot of what he has done but I wouldn't just use a broad brush to describe his ability to run a football club. He's done good things, he's invested heavily and the club has represented itself well outside of the on field events. He appointed a manager that you, me and many others approved of. That it hasn't worked (yet) doesn't make him a bad owner or show an inability to run a football club. There are plenty or worse examples out there of exactly what you are trying to describe and Randy would be a long way down that list.
The decision making since O'Neill walked out has, on the whole, been shocking. And at times absolutely inexplicable.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
Try googling Aston Villa accounts for a start and he doesn't have to be either.
Googled it, as far as I can see he has spent a fair few million on players and their wages that even the most frivolous on here would have sanctioned. According to what I have managed to look up, nothing concrete since 2012, our wage bill was at 85% of our turnover and we were losing money like water through a sieve. Randy did put off the interest payment on the loan for one year.
Still it looks like we have been very poorly run, during the reign of MoN and every other manager since.
Like I say I am no accountant and don't really know anything concrete but I have a gut feeling we don't know all there is to know about our clubs finances.
I am not saying Randy is doing anything dodgy.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
Speak for yourself. I might not agree with a lot of what he has done but I wouldn't just use a broad brush to describe his ability to run a football club. He's done good things, he's invested heavily and the club has represented itself well outside of the on field events. He appointed a manager that you, me and many others approved of. That it hasn't worked (yet) doesn't make him a bad owner or show an inability to run a football club. There are plenty or worse examples out there of exactly what you are trying to describe and Randy would be a long way down that list.
The decision making since O'Neill walked out has, on the whole, been shocking. And at times absolutely inexplicable.
It's been well documented, but MON walking out when he did made things much more difficult to get the right person. I'm not of the school that deemed the Houllier period a disaster. That is a debate for another day. I think we all agree on McLeish being a complete failure for which Lerner cannot be defended, and like I said Lambert was by consensus a popular appointment. The club has tried to back the current manager while at the same time cleaning up the mess of the three regimes prior to him. That they backed the previous managers in wages and transfers should be commended from a spending standpoint even if the contracts turned into anchors. They still spent the money is the point.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
Speak for yourself. I might not agree with a lot of what he has done but I wouldn't just use a broad brush to describe his ability to run a football club. He's done good things, he's invested heavily and the club has represented itself well outside of the on field events. He appointed a manager that you, me and many others approved of. That it hasn't worked (yet) doesn't make him a bad owner or show an inability to run a football club. There are plenty or worse examples out there of exactly what you are trying to describe and Randy would be a long way down that list.
The decision making since O'Neill walked out has, on the whole, been shocking. And at times absolutely inexplicable.
I would also question the way the club was run under MoN, look at the players and the wages they were on...
-
The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
-
I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
Try googling Aston Villa accounts for a start and he doesn't have to be either.
Googled it, as far as I can see he has spent a fair few million on players and their wages that even the most frivolous on here would have sanctioned. According to what I have managed to look up, nothing concrete since 2012, our wage bill was at 85% of our turnover and we were losing money like water through a sieve. Randy did put off the interest payment on the loan for one year.
Still it looks like we have been very poorly run, during the reign of MoN and every other manager since.
Like I say I am no accountant and don't really know anything concrete but I have a gut feeling we don't know all there is to know about our clubs finances.
I am not saying Randy is doing anything dodgy.
So might that possibly be the last time you ask variations on the same question?
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
Try googling Aston Villa accounts for a start and he doesn't have to be either.
Googled it, as far as I can see he has spent a fair few million on players and their wages that even the most frivolous on here would have sanctioned. According to what I have managed to look up, nothing concrete since 2012, our wage bill was at 85% of our turnover and we were losing money like water through a sieve. Randy did put off the interest payment on the loan for one year.
Still it looks like we have been very poorly run, during the reign of MoN and every other manager since.
Like I say I am no accountant and don't really know anything concrete but I have a gut feeling we don't know all there is to know about our clubs finances.
I am not saying Randy is doing anything dodgy.
So might that possibly be the last time you ask variations on the same question?
Don't know, depends on if it's relevant to the discussion, unless I am not allowed to ask questions on a thread entitled Kendrick Says It's Time To Ask Questions. I am very concerned about the clubs finances, as should we all, let's face it we don't want to do a Leeds do we?
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It's been well documented, but MON walking out when he did made things much more difficult to get the right person. I'm not of the school that deemed the Houllier period a disaster. That is a debate for another day. I think we all agree on McLeish being a complete failure for which Lerner cannot be defended, and like I said Lambert was by consensus a popular appointment. The club has tried to back the current manager while at the same time cleaning up the mess of the three regimes prior to him. That they backed the previous managers in wages and transfers should be commended from a spending standpoint even if the contracts turned into anchors. They still spent the money is the point.
I think if we're debating Lerner's ability to run a football club, his presiding over a situation where the finances were mishandled to the extent that three years later we're still cleaning the mess up is pretty damning evidence.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
Speak for yourself. I might not agree with a lot of what he has done but I wouldn't just use a broad brush to describe his ability to run a football club. He's done good things, he's invested heavily and the club has represented itself well outside of the on field events. He appointed a manager that you, me and many others approved of. That it hasn't worked (yet) doesn't make him a bad owner or show an inability to run a football club. There are plenty or worse examples out there of exactly what you are trying to describe and Randy would be a long way down that list.
The decision making since O'Neill walked out has, on the whole, been shocking. And at times absolutely inexplicable.
I would also question the way the club was run under MoN, look at the players and the wages they were on...
yes, but again, would MON have 1) agreed to join the club, or 2) stayed as long as he did if it hadn't been that way? Again, when he came to the club, when we were at a low ebb post O'Leary he was a very popular appointment, so he had some demands and the new owner agreed to them. Had Randy told MON that he wanted him, and oh and by the way was putting in a person to eessntially keep an eye on him, he'd never have joined the club. In hindsight it's what should have happened but in reality it could never have happened.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
Text speak for Obi Wan Kenobi...
-
Order of the Brown Nose - play on the OBE and other awards. It's given for arse licking comments.
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It's been well documented, but MON walking out when he did made things much more difficult to get the right person. I'm not of the school that deemed the Houllier period a disaster. That is a debate for another day. I think we all agree on McLeish being a complete failure for which Lerner cannot be defended, and like I said Lambert was by consensus a popular appointment. The club has tried to back the current manager while at the same time cleaning up the mess of the three regimes prior to him. That they backed the previous managers in wages and transfers should be commended from a spending standpoint even if the contracts turned into anchors. They still spent the money is the point.
I think if we're debating Lerner's ability to run a football club, his presiding over a situation where the finances were mishandled to the extent that three years later we're still cleaning the mess up is pretty damning evidence.
not really, and it is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. He allowed a highly reputable manager to run the football club which only in hindsight have we come to realise it was mishandled. I find it funny listening to the argument that Randy should have been more hands on in light of all of the years Doug was accused of interfering.
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not really, and it is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. He allowed a highly reputable manager to run the football club which only in hindsight have we come to realise it was mishandled. I find it funny listening to the argument that Randy should have been more hands on in light of all of the years Doug was accused of interfering.
What do you mean 'not really'? That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
Text speak for Obi Wan Kenobi...
Thanks Fergal, appreciate the translation.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
Text speak for Obi Wan Kenobi...
Thanks Fergal, appreciate the translation.
It could also mean Only Buys Nackers...
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not really, and it is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. He allowed a highly reputable manager to run the football club which only in hindsight have we come to realise it was mishandled. I find it funny listening to the argument that Randy should have been more hands on in light of all of the years Doug was accused of interfering.
What do you mean 'not really'? That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly.
it's because you have taken an approach that everything is wrong andf I haven't. I am willing to commend him as an owner in certain areas, and you are not. You have dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive, and I haven't. I am willing to concede he has made mistakes, whereas you cannot accept that even within those mistakes there were things that he did that an owner should be commended for e.g despite being in a hole financially agreeing to player purchases by all three managers post MON, some very significant acquisitions. I realise that not everything has worked out well, but as an owner he backed his manager. If you are also going to criticise that then there is no point us having a discussion because we'll never agree.
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
Text speak for Obi Wan Kenobi...
Thanks Fergal, appreciate the translation.
Me too....!
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I had old buggers naughties but hey
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
Well said :)
I have missed loads. Who is ' Old father cunty chops?" Great name by the way.
He is our European Scout. ;)
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it's because you have taken an approach that everything is wrong andf I haven't. I am willing to commend him as an owner in certain areas, and you are not. You have dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive, and I haven't. I am willing to concede he has made mistakes, whereas you cannot accept that even within those mistakes there were things that he did that an owner should be commended for e.g despite being in a hole financially agreeing to player purchases by all three managers post MON, some very significant acquisitions. I realise that not everything has worked out well, but as an owner he backed his manager. If you are also going to criticise that then there is no point us having a discussion because we'll never agree.
What the fuck are you on about? Where have I dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive?
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
Well said :)
I have missed loads. Who is ' Old father cunty chops?" Great name by the way.
He is our European Scout. ;)
Is that like a Queen's scout with extra badges?
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
Well said :)
I have missed loads. Who is ' Old father cunty chops?" Great name by the way.
He is our European Scout. ;)
Is that like a Queen's scout with extra badges?
And a passport !
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Yes. He's a banned user using yet another ID to register. Automatic ban. Quite why folks don't realise we will find out quickly who they are is beyond me.
Is that the Bell-end who used to post on 6-0-6 about 10 years ago?
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Old father Cunty Chops.
I will finish my views for the evening thus.
Do you want us to get this right? Of course you do. Do we need the bullshit in between? Of course we don't.
I could go on for hours but balls to it. I don't suck up to people here to curry favour. In fact, I wouldn't do it if it made me a fortune.
What I was getting at was.... Ah, bollocks to it. Why bother.
Well said :)
I have missed loads. Who is ' Old father cunty chops?" Great name by the way.
He is our European Scout. ;)
Is that like a Queen's scout with extra badges?
And a passport !
He can find firewood and create a cordon blue meal from anything in half an hour.
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it's because you have taken an approach that everything is wrong andf I haven't. I am willing to commend him as an owner in certain areas, and you are not. You have dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive, and I haven't. I am willing to concede he has made mistakes, whereas you cannot accept that even within those mistakes there were things that he did that an owner should be commended for e.g despite being in a hole financially agreeing to player purchases by all three managers post MON, some very significant acquisitions. I realise that not everything has worked out well, but as an owner he backed his manager. If you are also going to criticise that then there is no point us having a discussion because we'll never agree.
What the fuck are you on about? Where have I dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive?
this bit "That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly".
You've made a strong suggestion that he doesn't know how to run a football club and I countered that by saying it is overly simplistic and that there are other factors that need to be considered before making such a sweeping statement.
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it's because you have taken an approach that everything is wrong andf I haven't. I am willing to commend him as an owner in certain areas, and you are not. You have dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive, and I haven't. I am willing to concede he has made mistakes, whereas you cannot accept that even within those mistakes there were things that he did that an owner should be commended for e.g despite being in a hole financially agreeing to player purchases by all three managers post MON, some very significant acquisitions. I realise that not everything has worked out well, but as an owner he backed his manager. If you are also going to criticise that then there is no point us having a discussion because we'll never agree.
What the fuck are you on about? Where have I dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive?
this bit "That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly".
You've made a strong suggestion that he doesn't know how to run a football club and I countered that by saying it is overly simplistic and that there are other factors that need to be considered before making such a sweeping statement.
He took us over and we were debt free (ish) relegation fodder now we are debt ridden relegation fodder. Good job that man...
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I have though about this Kendrick initiative and I smell a rodent. I think Randy and Faulkner are scared witless at the prospect of having to find another manager. Faulkner has gone through his Readers Digest Business Management Guide and re read the chapter on "how to avoid things happening you don't want to happen" and he has put a felt pen highlighter through the words "be proactive". What he dreads happening is another Bolton. I bet he has nightmares about that game. He likes to think the fans are manipulable but when their anger shows he runs for cover. So how does he prevent another Bolton eruption of spontaneous anger? He gets some sort of fan forum set up to dissipate the naked anger. A local newspaper and a local journalist could appear to sow the seeds of the idea.
As for the concept of a body of fans being consulted by the board I think it is a non starter because, as I posted elsewhere it is all about leopards and spots. We will not change the fact that the club and the fans are being battered by a perfect storm generated by an owner who has lost interest, a chief executive who would need surgery to get a football idea into his head and a manager who is now reduced to a one item agenda of damage limitation to save his career.
Brian is it really that bad? I suppose Faulkner has some form of ability to get to an advanced position like he has with zero experience and must mean he has an unusual talent in pursuasiveness.
The other 2 we know about.
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it's because you have taken an approach that everything is wrong andf I haven't. I am willing to commend him as an owner in certain areas, and you are not. You have dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive, and I haven't. I am willing to concede he has made mistakes, whereas you cannot accept that even within those mistakes there were things that he did that an owner should be commended for e.g despite being in a hole financially agreeing to player purchases by all three managers post MON, some very significant acquisitions. I realise that not everything has worked out well, but as an owner he backed his manager. If you are also going to criticise that then there is no point us having a discussion because we'll never agree.
What the fuck are you on about? Where have I dismissed all notion that anything he did has been positive?
this bit "That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly".
You've made a strong suggestion that he doesn't know how to run a football club and I countered that by saying it is overly simplistic and that there are other factors that need to be considered before making such a sweeping statement.
He took us over and we were debt free (ish) relegation fodder now we are debt ridden relegation fodder. Good job that man...
show me a club that is debt free and especially one that took a run at CL football. Maybe Doug could have run up a bit of debt if he backed his managers as he should have over the years.
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this bit "That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly".
You've made a strong suggestion that he doesn't know how to run a football club and I countered that by saying it is overly simplistic and that there are other factors that need to be considered before making such a sweeping statement.
That whole situation IS a stone cold example of a club not being run properly. It can't be construed as anything else when you spend hundreds of millions of pounds and the net result is a financial mess that takes three years (and counting) to address and the club drops down the arse end of the table to fight relegation battles year after year. That's bad management in anyone's book. Which is not to say the Acorns deal wasn't an extremely generous gesture on Randy's part, because it quite obviously was but I defy anyone to look at the Villa since Lerner took over and say 'Yep that man sure knows how to run a football club.'
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
Text speak for Obi Wan Kenobi...
Old Brown Nose
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
Try googling Aston Villa accounts for a start and he doesn't have to be either.
Googled it, as far as I can see he has spent a fair few million on players and their wages that even the most frivolous on here would have sanctioned. According to what I have managed to look up, nothing concrete since 2012, our wage bill was at 85% of our turnover and we were losing money like water through a sieve. Randy did put off the interest payment on the loan for one year.
Still it looks like we have been very poorly run, during the reign of MoN and every other manager since.
Like I say I am no accountant and don't really know anything concrete but I have a gut feeling we don't know all there is to know about our clubs finances.
I am not saying Randy is doing anything dodgy.
So might that possibly be the last time you ask variations on the same question?
Don't know, depends on if it's relevant to the discussion, unless I am not allowed to ask questions on a thread entitled Kendrick Says It's Time To Ask Questions. I am very concerned about the clubs finances, as should we all, let's face it we don't want to do a Leeds do we?
Oh good, the "I'm not allowed to..." approach. Which is of course particularly ironic as it relates to a question you ask regularly and always get answered.
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I think the one thing most of us agree with is that he has not got a clue how to run a football club.
Speak for yourself. I might not agree with a lot of what he has done but I wouldn't just use a broad brush to describe his ability to run a football club. He's done good things, he's invested heavily and the club has represented itself well outside of the on field events. He appointed a manager that you, me and many others approved of. That it hasn't worked (yet) doesn't make him a bad owner or show an inability to run a football club. There are plenty or worse examples out there of exactly what you are trying to describe and Randy would be a long way down that list.
The decision making since O'Neill walked out has, on the whole, been shocking. And at times absolutely inexplicable.
Yup and er who was made CEO just before he left? And who is still there? Learning his role 4 years later? Potentially likely to hire his 4th manager soon?
There is no reason why Faulkner should not be employed by Aston Villa. There are too many reasons why he should not be CEO.
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Randy and Faulkner have their supporters on here. It is a debate that will only intensify. We have seen cogent arguments put as to why those who run the club have made a bit of a pig's ear of it.
I would like somebody to write something up illustrating why they believe the club is in good hands and has been run reasonably well since 2006. We don't see that thrashed out enough in my view and I would like to see that position outlined.
And,if possible, without the 'we would have been relegated in 2006' line. We all know Villa were a mess back then and Doug was well past it by then and a change had been needed for sometime. Also, the parallels with our current status are too discomforting.
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this bit "That whole situation is a stone cold example of a club not being run properly".
You've made a strong suggestion that he doesn't know how to run a football club and I countered that by saying it is overly simplistic and that there are other factors that need to be considered before making such a sweeping statement.
That whole situation IS a stone cold example of a club not being properly. It can't be construed as anything else when you spend hundreds of millions of pounds and the net result is a financial mess that takes three years (and counting) to address and the club drops down the arse end of the table to fight relegation battles year after year. That's bad management in anyone's book. Which is not to say the Acorns deal wasn't an extremely generous gesture on Randy's part, because it quite obviously was but I defy anyone to look at the Villa since Lerner took over and say 'Yep that man sure knows how to run a football club.'
what exactly is running a football club? Because again, by your very last statement you are saying he doesn't know how to run one, yet there is evidence to the contrary that he has got some things right and some things wrong. You are failing to accept that there is a middle ground. You have put all of your eggs in the financial side of things which are partly to do with his backing of the manager which is part of running a football club. He could have had a shirt sponsor but took Acorns for a year - part of running a football club. He's improved the stadium - part of running a football club. He appointed two managers that were popular choices - part of running a football club. It hasn't all worked out - again part of running a football club. That's why in a league of multi millionaire or even billionaire owners not everyone finishes top, and 3 get relegated.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Back in 2003, my father and I compiled a report, having been commissioned by Villa Fans Combined, on the running of Aston Villa PLC. It was well received and we believe it led to the eventual sale of Aston Villa in 2006. It was clear then that the club desperately needed new direction and funding and it’s very clear now that we are back to those days so I have compiled another report, albeit in less detail and more to the point. It’s written with the best interests of Aston Villa in mind, as always.
The Board
The main Aston Villa board members are Randolph Lerner, Paul Faulkner and Robin Russell, with General Charles Krulak as the one non-executive board member.
It’s become very clear that this is a board ill-equipped to run a football club successfully. The knowledge simply isn’t there regarding football in general and Aston Villa as a football club in particular. There is a very long list of expensive mistakes made – too long to list – but proof is in the pudding: we are struggling to match Doug Ellis and David O’Leary last season’s (2005/6) points tally (42) for the third season running.
Off the field activities are run well, including an excellent hospitality division and good work in the community with charities like Acorns. However, Aston Villa is a football club, not a hotel.
This means the club relies solely on the football manager for leadership and direction on the football pitch – a dangerous scenario as an air of invincibility starts to surround this one individual. This was very apparent with Martin O Neill and is evident again with the current manager, Paul Lambert.
Until recently, I had a reasonable relationship with Paul Faulkner and always tried to advise from afar where possible. It was becoming more obvious to me and several others every week that despite our fairly comfortable position in the Premier League we were digressing in our playing style, which would lead to big problems not too far down the line.
I took the time out to write to Randy Lerner about my concerns and made some suggestions as to how we could improve things.
Suffice to say, the reaction I got was not expected and led to me being told I was no longer welcome in the Aston Villa directors’ box/restaurant. The reasons given? I was informed in writing that I had infringed on Mr Lerner’s privacy by discussing his attendance record (hardly a secret) on Twitter and was told in person by Paul Faulkner that it was for not being supportive, his exact words being:
“What were you trying to achieve in writing this letter to the owner? The manager has seen it and is not happy. We would not want you to outlast your welcome here, Howard.”
I found his behaviour incredible: he was talking to me like an employee when in fact I was a customer who had spent a great deal of money over the last two years on match sponsorships and directors’ memberships, not to mention being a season ticket holder for thirty-six years and from a family that has had long-standing relationships with many of the previous owners (Ellis, Bendell, Kartz).
It’s very sad that constructive criticism is just not allowed at Aston Villa these days. The press also have to tread very warily for fear of being banned if they print things not to the liking of those in power at Aston Villa Football Club. How can that be right?
We have been failing for four consecutive years and yet all we are told by the board is that a long term plan is in place and they are satisfied with the progress being made. What progress? We had bad seasons under the Ellis regime but never four in a row! Even when we went down in 86/87, by 89/90 we almost won the league, as we did in 92/93. What do we have to show for Lerner’s regime? Three top six finishes and a Cup final, which all seems to have happened a long time ago.
The Manager – Paul Lambert
£40 million has been spent by Paul Lambert on sixteen new players yet we remain on course for another struggle, with the same low points achieved by his predecessor and the style of football hardly having improved. That is not my idea of progress. When money is not unlimited perhaps bringing in three left backs and four big centre forwards is a tad misguided, especially when the spine of central midfield, central defence and wingers remains woefully inadequate. The fact Lambert seems so obsessed with big strikers tells you a lot about his thoughts tactically.
He is primarily a ‘behind the ball’ manager: get men behind the ball, soak up the pressure, let the opponents have the ball and then hit them on the counter attack. This can work away from home, as we have seen, but at home counter attacking opportunities are rare except against top sides that will dominate. Most sides sit back and say, “You have the ball Villa. You are at home. Break us down”. Sadly, we don’t have a clue how to do that and other teams now know this.
Our only plan is to go sideways, backwards, opt for a long ball as we don’t commit men beyond the ball or run enough off the ball for the man on the ball to have options to pass to in front of him. Movement draws opponents out of position and creates space. We just don’t do this for fear of – you’ve guessed it – being hit on the counter attack! We hold position far too much. Even our full backs haven’t been getting forward this season so the man on the ball at Villa Park, literally, has nowhere to go but sideways, backwards or long. This makes it very easy for away teams to defend. Added to this, they know they don’t have to create much for us to concede a goal as we nearly always have a lapse in concentration, particularly when Vlaar does not play.
Lambert is the manager and he is paid a lot of money to do far better than he is doing. I see the same turgid stuff week after week, with no attempt to change or improve. He has openly admitted he doesn’t know why we play so poorly at home but surely he realises it comes down to what I have just outlined? People tell me he has made us more solid. Well, so what? It’s not paying dividends with the results. It did perhaps when we were sitting on nineteen points after fourteen games but negative, long ball football always gets found out in the end, much like it did in the McLeish season, and we now have amassed just nine points from the last thirteen games, failing to score in our last three games against teams around us or out of form. It’s no wonder he spends so much time chasing big strikers as our whole home strategy appears to be hitting long diagonal balls to a big man for others to feed off. It’s a tactic that is out of date and in any case the big number 9 is too often isolated anyway.
I must confess to being supportive of Paul Lambert’s appointment. I honestly thought a bright, young manager like him would be just what this club needed after the disastrous appointment/reign of Alex McLeish. He came with a reputation of having his teams play attractive, attacking football and first and foremost we’d try and win games regardless of the opposition. He made a point of addressing the home form himself when he first arrived, saying it was about time the Villa fans started enjoying their team’s football at Villa Park again. Well, thirty-two games on and with only eight wins registered and some of the worst, most aimless football I have ever seen at Villa Park in thirty-six years of attendance, I am still waiting to enjoy myself, Paul.
I did think we were on to something positive between February and May of 2013. We played positively and even found some form at Villa Park. The QPR game (second half) and Sunderland games were big highlights, as were the first sixty minutes against Chelsea when, until Benteke was sent off, we were the better side. I went into the summer feeling we had a real chance, if we kept playing in that manner, of achieving fifty points this season. Those thoughts were strengthened by the win at The Emirates and the strong performance against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Sadly, since that second game we just haven’t performed with the exceptions of a bright second half against Manchester City and an excellent first half against Liverpool. We have had some narrow wins against Southampton and Sunderland but, overall, it’s been regression all the way. I honestly don’t think we have put one consistent ninety minute performance together – a feature of Lambert’s reign – and I believe we have only won two games by a two goal margin and none by three or more.
Lambert has proved to be a major disappointment. His tactics, as outlined, are one dimensional, predictable and far more negative than I ever imagined they would be. Tiote made a telling comment on Sunday after the game, claiming he never felt Villa came to win the game. That mindset has been too apparent in recent times and it’s a mindset I would never have associated with a Lambert team before he came here. Also, the same mistakes are made week after week, indicating the work on the training ground simply isn’t working.
He has bought some good players who have done well but also bought a lot of average players who just seem to be making up the numbers. Perhaps trusting a few more of the ‘bomb squad’, some of whom we are still paying fortunes to every week, or the NextGen winning squad could have allowed him to buy less quantity and more quality.
I was invited to Bodymoor Heath at the beginning of the Lambert reign and the strategy of buying young, talented players who were going to grow as a team together was explained. Henke had been appointed as head of scouting and he would ensure we were first in line to capture hidden or undiscovered gems in Europe. However, Henke was gone by January 2013.
This sounded like a good plan as long as the young players targeted were good enough to play in one of the toughest leagues in the world. Whilst some, like Benteke and Okore, are, too many are substandard, especially as we had not targeted any proven, experienced players at this level until this January window, which represented a big shift in strategy by Lambert, who had previously been quoted as saying: “This club tried the experienced footballer route and it didn’t get them much success.” It was therefore a surprise to hear him say he now did want experienced players at the beginning of January. Brett Holman must have had a wry smile on his face when he heard Lambert say this as he had suggested the same thing a year earlier much to the annoyance of Lambert, who made sure Holman wouldn’t have a future at Villa following that comment.
Conclusion
It is my opinion that Aston Villa Football Club is in a bigger mess than it was in when the original Hodgson Report was written in 2003 when fans were at the end of their tethers with the previous owner, Doug Ellis. We had just finished on forty-five points under Graham Taylor, which was deemed totally unacceptable. We then had three seasons under David O’Leary with fifty-six points, forty-seven points and forty-two points being amassed with limited transfer funds. It was clear by 2006 that the club was indeed crying out for a takeover and up stepped Reform Acquisitions LLC and Randy Lerner.
Everyone was so excited. Doug Ellis and David O’Leary were finally gone and we had a bright new era ahead with Lerner and Martin O’Neill that would take us back to the top.
Whilst no one can say Martin O’Neill wasn’t given fantastic backing in that time, the lack of a football man on the board to control the type of players brought in, to make sure we could always sell players on for a profit and not keep buying players at the top of their value was badly missing and blew such a hole in Lerner’s plan that we have since been slowly sinking like the Titanic.
Even after Martin O’Neill, Paul Faulkner, McLeish and, to a lesser degree, Houllier burnt serious millions on crazy deals for Ireland, Bent, Makoun, Hutton, Given and N’Zogbia. Hutton alone will have been paid £4 million in wages since he last played for us! You would have thought we would have learnt our lesson from another right back who hardly ever played for us but got paid £7 million in wages – a certain Habib Beye! I say Houllier was wasteful to a lesser degree as Bent was primarily a Lerner signing plus he did almost single-handedly save the club from relegation in 2010/11.
The irony is it’s the Lerner family’s money that has been blown but he continues to back people like Paul Faulkner religiously. Faulkner, as Chief Executive Officer, is responsible for these day-to-day business decisions like what people get paid and for how long their contracts run. As I mentioned earlier, Paul Faulkner relies far too heavily on the football manager as he simply doesn’t have the knowledge that someone like Daniel Levy does to make these decisions himself. Surely that can’t be right? He is Chief Executive of a big football club.
Ultimately, Aston Villa deserves far better. It is very unfortunate that Randy Lerner has lost the money he has but that comes with the territory and if you make bad decisions and don’t appoint the right people these things happen in business.
Aston Villa needs to move on. Randy Lerner either has to sell the club at the earliest opportunity as Doug Ellis did when it became apparent he couldn’t fund it satisfactorily or provide more finance to rebuild the club properly and return it to its rightful place as a big six player.
This meandering in the lower reaches of the Premier League has to stop. Frankly, I am extremely worried that we may not even be a Premiership club next season because our form and play is so bad.
You have to hope that, like in that final Ellis/David O’Leary season, we do survive and a clean sweep is made of the people in power at Villa in the summer and lessons are learnt if a new owner does come in, the biggest one being get Aston Villa people who understand the club, the fans and the game on the board – people who will have a burning desire to return the club to the top. That,combined with the necessary funding and appointing the right manager, will mean happier times are not far away.
If we continue with Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert indefinitely, I fear years of pain and unsatisfactory results unless they have a major rethink and change their attitudes and strategies.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
I don't see how anyone can possibly suspect that.
Have you seen how much he has had to inject into the club? The loans he has written off?
Loans to himself. I wonder how much he has taken out in wages and management fees.
You've been told more times than I can remember. Find out for yourself from the published accounts and let us know.
I wouldn't know where to look, but he is either a very astute business man or as inept at finance as he is at running a football club.
Try googling Aston Villa accounts for a start and he doesn't have to be either.
Googled it, as far as I can see he has spent a fair few million on players and their wages that even the most frivolous on here would have sanctioned. According to what I have managed to look up, nothing concrete since 2012, our wage bill was at 85% of our turnover and we were losing money like water through a sieve. Randy did put off the interest payment on the loan for one year.
Still it looks like we have been very poorly run, during the reign of MoN and every other manager since.
Like I say I am no accountant and don't really know anything concrete but I have a gut feeling we don't know all there is to know about our clubs finances.
I am not saying Randy is doing anything dodgy.
So might that possibly be the last time you ask variations on the same question?
Don't know, depends on if it's relevant to the discussion, unless I am not allowed to ask questions on a thread entitled Kendrick Says It's Time To Ask Questions. I am very concerned about the clubs finances, as should we all, let's face it we don't want to do a Leeds do we?
Oh good, the "I'm not allowed to..." approach. Which is of course particularly ironic as it relates to a question you ask regularly and always get answered.
Oh good, the "sarcastic put down approach..." You do seem to get very defensive about this, and no I don't always get an answer I am looking for. This club is being run into the ground and I am worried for the future.
Do you think it's been well run or poorly run?
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The cynic in me says that it doesn't really make any difference who the manager is provided they have experience of professional footy and an understanding of coaching. It's all about money.
The emergence of Man City killed us when they took our two best players. After that Randy was unable to out spend the others into 4th. He is out of his depth against the rest of the Premier Leagues big clubs. The owners of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle regularly run rings round us off the pitch in commercial terms and in recruitment. Should Everton really appeal more to a Wigan manager than us?
Take away Randy's money then what does he bring to the table? Less than a Doug/Stride combo I'd say.
The above said, although the team is everything, I can't help but like Randy even though I know little about him. The Acorns thing alone makes everything else irrelevant really. That is a more important legacy than footy. I get the feeling with Randy that he has one of those moral compasses that people born into wealth can afford to have, and there is nothing wrong with that, but footy is a ruthless industry that requires sometimes spiteful decision making. Perhaps it's just not his bag.
I like this post.
I was just thinking it was a candidate for Private Eye's OBN section.
OBN?
Text speak for Obi Wan Kenobi...
Old Brown Nose
Erm... Order of the Brown Nose, surely?
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what exactly is running a football club? Because again, by your very last statement you are saying he doesn't know how to run one, yet there is evidence to the contrary that he has got some things right and some things wrong. You are failing to accept that there is a middle ground. You have put all of your eggs in the financial side of things which are partly to do with his backing of the manager which is part of running a football club. He could have had a shirt sponsor but took Acorns for a year - part of running a football club. He's improved the stadium - part of running a football club. He appointed two managers that were popular choices - part of running a football club. It hasn't all worked out - again part of running a football club. That's why in a league of multi millionaire or even billionaire owners not everyone finishes top, and 3 get relegated.
I'm quite plainly not putting all of my eggs in the financial basket; there's a good few in the footballing basket too. I think you're conflating Randy's wealth and altruism with skill at running a football club. He's got bags of the former and very little of the latter.
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Oh good, the "sarcastic put down approach..." You do seem to get very defensive about this, and no I don't always get an answer I am looking for. This club is being run into the ground and I am worried for the future.
Do you think it's been well run or poorly run?
Of course you don't get the answer you're looking for. The answer you want is that Randy is some sort of financial leech taking a fortune out of the club every year when in fact the reverse is true. You get told that every time you ask the question, but it isn't what you want to hear so you go off on another tangent until it's time to ask the original question again.
I'll repeat what Toronto said - in some ways the club are being badly run, in others they are doing well. Unfortunately the most important aspect isn't right at the moment.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
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Oh good, the "sarcastic put down approach..." You do seem to get very defensive about this, and no I don't always get an answer I am looking for. This club is being run into the ground and I am worried for the future.
Do you think it's been well run or poorly run?
Of course you don't get the answer you're looking for. The answer you want is that Randy is some sort of financial leech taking a fortune out of the club every year when in fact the reverse is true. You get told that every time you ask the question, but it isn't what you want to hear so you go off on another tangent until it's time to ask the original question again.
I'll repeat what Toronto said - in some ways the club are being badly run, in others they are doing well. Unfortunately the most important aspect isn't right at the moment.
I can agree with that statement, except for the 'at the moment' bit. The football side has been run horrendously for years, and there seems to be no sign of improvement.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
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I think this was written by the chap that used to sit in the Directors Box until recently but was removed for various comments he made. He could have an axe to grind.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Back in 2003, my father and I compiled a report, having been commissioned by Villa Fans Combined, on the running of Aston Villa PLC. It was well received and we believe it led to the eventual sale of Aston Villa in 2006. It was clear then that the club desperately needed new direction and funding and it’s very clear now that we are back to those days so I have compiled another report, albeit in less detail and more to the point. It’s written with the best interests of Aston Villa in mind, as always.
The Board
The main Aston Villa board members are Randolph Lerner, Paul Faulkner and Robin Russell, with General Charles Krulak as the one non-executive board member.
It’s become very clear that this is a board ill-equipped to run a football club successfully. The knowledge simply isn’t there regarding football in general and Aston Villa as a football club in particular. There is a very long list of expensive mistakes made – too long to list – but proof is in the pudding: we are struggling to match Doug Ellis and David O’Leary last season’s (2005/6) points tally (42) for the third season running.
Off the field activities are run well, including an excellent hospitality division and good work in the community with charities like Acorns. However, Aston Villa is a football club, not a hotel.
This means the club relies solely on the football manager for leadership and direction on the football pitch – a dangerous scenario as an air of invincibility starts to surround this one individual. This was very apparent with Martin O Neill and is evident again with the current manager, Paul Lambert.
Until recently, I had a reasonable relationship with Paul Faulkner and always tried to advise from afar where possible. It was becoming more obvious to me and several others every week that despite our fairly comfortable position in the Premier League we were digressing in our playing style, which would lead to big problems not too far down the line.
I took the time out to write to Randy Lerner about my concerns and made some suggestions as to how we could improve things.
Suffice to say, the reaction I got was not expected and led to me being told I was no longer welcome in the Aston Villa directors’ box/restaurant. The reasons given? I was informed in writing that I had infringed on Mr Lerner’s privacy by discussing his attendance record (hardly a secret) on Twitter and was told in person by Paul Faulkner that it was for not being supportive, his exact words being:
“What were you trying to achieve in writing this letter to the owner? The manager has seen it and is not happy. We would not want you to outlast your welcome here, Howard.”
I found his behaviour incredible: he was talking to me like an employee when in fact I was a customer who had spent a great deal of money over the last two years on match sponsorships and directors’ memberships, not to mention being a season ticket holder for thirty-six years and from a family that has had long-standing relationships with many of the previous owners (Ellis, Bendell, Kartz).
It’s very sad that constructive criticism is just not allowed at Aston Villa these days. The press also have to tread very warily for fear of being banned if they print things not to the liking of those in power at Aston Villa Football Club. How can that be right?
We have been failing for four consecutive years and yet all we are told by the board is that a long term plan is in place and they are satisfied with the progress being made. What progress? We had bad seasons under the Ellis regime but never four in a row! Even when we went down in 86/87, by 89/90 we almost won the league, as we did in 92/93. What do we have to show for Lerner’s regime? Three top six finishes and a Cup final, which all seems to have happened a long time ago.
The Manager – Paul Lambert
£40 million has been spent by Paul Lambert on sixteen new players yet we remain on course for another struggle, with the same low points achieved by his predecessor and the style of football hardly having improved. That is not my idea of progress. When money is not unlimited perhaps bringing in three left backs and four big centre forwards is a tad misguided, especially when the spine of central midfield, central defence and wingers remains woefully inadequate. The fact Lambert seems so obsessed with big strikers tells you a lot about his thoughts tactically.
He is primarily a ‘behind the ball’ manager: get men behind the ball, soak up the pressure, let the opponents have the ball and then hit them on the counter attack. This can work away from home, as we have seen, but at home counter attacking opportunities are rare except against top sides that will dominate. Most sides sit back and say, “You have the ball Villa. You are at home. Break us down”. Sadly, we don’t have a clue how to do that and other teams now know this.
Our only plan is to go sideways, backwards, opt for a long ball as we don’t commit men beyond the ball or run enough off the ball for the man on the ball to have options to pass to in front of him. Movement draws opponents out of position and creates space. We just don’t do this for fear of – you’ve guessed it – being hit on the counter attack! We hold position far too much. Even our full backs haven’t been getting forward this season so the man on the ball at Villa Park, literally, has nowhere to go but sideways, backwards or long. This makes it very easy for away teams to defend. Added to this, they know they don’t have to create much for us to concede a goal as we nearly always have a lapse in concentration, particularly when Vlaar does not play.
Lambert is the manager and he is paid a lot of money to do far better than he is doing. I see the same turgid stuff week after week, with no attempt to change or improve. He has openly admitted he doesn’t know why we play so poorly at home but surely he realises it comes down to what I have just outlined? People tell me he has made us more solid. Well, so what? It’s not paying dividends with the results. It did perhaps when we were sitting on nineteen points after fourteen games but negative, long ball football always gets found out in the end, much like it did in the McLeish season, and we now have amassed just nine points from the last thirteen games, failing to score in our last three games against teams around us or out of form. It’s no wonder he spends so much time chasing big strikers as our whole home strategy appears to be hitting long diagonal balls to a big man for others to feed off. It’s a tactic that is out of date and in any case the big number 9 is too often isolated anyway.
I must confess to being supportive of Paul Lambert’s appointment. I honestly thought a bright, young manager like him would be just what this club needed after the disastrous appointment/reign of Alex McLeish. He came with a reputation of having his teams play attractive, attacking football and first and foremost we’d try and win games regardless of the opposition. He made a point of addressing the home form himself when he first arrived, saying it was about time the Villa fans started enjoying their team’s football at Villa Park again. Well, thirty-two games on and with only eight wins registered and some of the worst, most aimless football I have ever seen at Villa Park in thirty-six years of attendance, I am still waiting to enjoy myself, Paul.
I did think we were on to something positive between February and May of 2013. We played positively and even found some form at Villa Park. The QPR game (second half) and Sunderland games were big highlights, as were the first sixty minutes against Chelsea when, until Benteke was sent off, we were the better side. I went into the summer feeling we had a real chance, if we kept playing in that manner, of achieving fifty points this season. Those thoughts were strengthened by the win at The Emirates and the strong performance against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Sadly, since that second game we just haven’t performed with the exceptions of a bright second half against Manchester City and an excellent first half against Liverpool. We have had some narrow wins against Southampton and Sunderland but, overall, it’s been regression all the way. I honestly don’t think we have put one consistent ninety minute performance together – a feature of Lambert’s reign – and I believe we have only won two games by a two goal margin and none by three or more.
Lambert has proved to be a major disappointment. His tactics, as outlined, are one dimensional, predictable and far more negative than I ever imagined they would be. Tiote made a telling comment on Sunday after the game, claiming he never felt Villa came to win the game. That mindset has been too apparent in recent times and it’s a mindset I would never have associated with a Lambert team before he came here. Also, the same mistakes are made week after week, indicating the work on the training ground simply isn’t working.
He has bought some good players who have done well but also bought a lot of average players who just seem to be making up the numbers. Perhaps trusting a few more of the ‘bomb squad’, some of whom we are still paying fortunes to every week, or the NextGen winning squad could have allowed him to buy less quantity and more quality.
I was invited to Bodymoor Heath at the beginning of the Lambert reign and the strategy of buying young, talented players who were going to grow as a team together was explained. Henke had been appointed as head of scouting and he would ensure we were first in line to capture hidden or undiscovered gems in Europe. However, Henke was gone by January 2013.
This sounded like a good plan as long as the young players targeted were good enough to play in one of the toughest leagues in the world. Whilst some, like Benteke and Okore, are, too many are substandard, especially as we had not targeted any proven, experienced players at this level until this January window, which represented a big shift in strategy by Lambert, who had previously been quoted as saying: “This club tried the experienced footballer route and it didn’t get them much success.” It was therefore a surprise to hear him say he now did want experienced players at the beginning of January. Brett Holman must have had a wry smile on his face when he heard Lambert say this as he had suggested the same thing a year earlier much to the annoyance of Lambert, who made sure Holman wouldn’t have a future at Villa following that comment.
Conclusion
It is my opinion that Aston Villa Football Club is in a bigger mess than it was in when the original Hodgson Report was written in 2003 when fans were at the end of their tethers with the previous owner, Doug Ellis. We had just finished on forty-five points under Graham Taylor, which was deemed totally unacceptable. We then had three seasons under David O’Leary with fifty-six points, forty-seven points and forty-two points being amassed with limited transfer funds. It was clear by 2006 that the club was indeed crying out for a takeover and up stepped Reform Acquisitions LLC and Randy Lerner.
Everyone was so excited. Doug Ellis and David O’Leary were finally gone and we had a bright new era ahead with Lerner and Martin O’Neill that would take us back to the top.
Whilst no one can say Martin O’Neill wasn’t given fantastic backing in that time, the lack of a football man on the board to control the type of players brought in, to make sure we could always sell players on for a profit and not keep buying players at the top of their value was badly missing and blew such a hole in Lerner’s plan that we have since been slowly sinking like the Titanic.
Even after Martin O’Neill, Paul Faulkner, McLeish and, to a lesser degree, Houllier burnt serious millions on crazy deals for Ireland, Bent, Makoun, Hutton, Given and N’Zogbia. Hutton alone will have been paid £4 million in wages since he last played for us! You would have thought we would have learnt our lesson from another right back who hardly ever played for us but got paid £7 million in wages – a certain Habib Beye! I say Houllier was wasteful to a lesser degree as Bent was primarily a Lerner signing plus he did almost single-handedly save the club from relegation in 2010/11.
The irony is it’s the Lerner family’s money that has been blown but he continues to back people like Paul Faulkner religiously. Faulkner, as Chief Executive Officer, is responsible for these day-to-day business decisions like what people get paid and for how long their contracts run. As I mentioned earlier, Paul Faulkner relies far too heavily on the football manager as he simply doesn’t have the knowledge that someone like Daniel Levy does to make these decisions himself. Surely that can’t be right? He is Chief Executive of a big football club.
Ultimately, Aston Villa deserves far better. It is very unfortunate that Randy Lerner has lost the money he has but that comes with the territory and if you make bad decisions and don’t appoint the right people these things happen in business.
Aston Villa needs to move on. Randy Lerner either has to sell the club at the earliest opportunity as Doug Ellis did when it became apparent he couldn’t fund it satisfactorily or provide more finance to rebuild the club properly and return it to its rightful place as a big six player.
This meandering in the lower reaches of the Premier League has to stop. Frankly, I am extremely worried that we may not even be a Premiership club next season because our form and play is so bad.
You have to hope that, like in that final Ellis/David O’Leary season, we do survive and a clean sweep is made of the people in power at Villa in the summer and lessons are learnt if a new owner does come in, the biggest one being get Aston Villa people who understand the club, the fans and the game on the board – people who will have a burning desire to return the club to the top. That,combined with the necessary funding and appointing the right manager, will mean happier times are not far away.
If we continue with Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert indefinitely, I fear years of pain and unsatisfactory results unless they have a major rethink and change their attitudes and strategies.
Interesting post by someone who has fallen foul of people in the Inner Sanctum.
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I'll repeat what Toronto said - in some ways the club are being badly run, in others they are doing well. Unfortunately the most important aspect isn't right at the moment.
I think it's a bit more serious than "at the moment" to be fair. The most important aspect hasn't been right for at least a couple of years.
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If we continue with Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert indefinitely, I fear years of pain and unsatisfactory results unless they have a major rethink and change their attitudes and strategies.
That statement is hard to disagree with.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
To be fair his name is Hodgson and it is a report, but I get what you mean.
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what exactly is running a football club? Because again, by your very last statement you are saying he doesn't know how to run one, yet there is evidence to the contrary that he has got some things right and some things wrong. You are failing to accept that there is a middle ground. You have put all of your eggs in the financial side of things which are partly to do with his backing of the manager which is part of running a football club. He could have had a shirt sponsor but took Acorns for a year - part of running a football club. He's improved the stadium - part of running a football club. He appointed two managers that were popular choices - part of running a football club. It hasn't all worked out - again part of running a football club. That's why in a league of multi millionaire or even billionaire owners not everyone finishes top, and 3 get relegated.
I'm quite plainly not putting all of my eggs in the financial basket; there's a good few in the footballing basket too. I think you're conflating Randy's wealth and altruism with skill at running a football club. He's got bags of the former and very little of the latter.
Unfortunately, there is plenty of evidence that he's not the greatest at running a football club. Look at the figures, and then look at the last four seasons. Then look at the squad.
Someone was overseeing the entire 8 years, managing the assets of the club and we've brilliantly combined huge amounts of spending with winding up with one of the worst squads in the top flight.
That's one thing, though, but when people start banging on and either imply he is taking money out or is on course for a big fat profit, though, that is clearly demonstrable bollocks. It's just not the case.
It's like when people start moaning that Lambert mumbles or he doesn't say much in his interviews or he's wearing the wrong colour jumper or he looks a bit shifty or whatever pisses them off - isn't it enough to be moaning about the things that are actually moan worthy and at least have some relevance or basis in the truth?
It's just not enough for some people. Lerner has got to be paying himself fat sums. He's got to be on course for an earner. It's just so pathetic.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
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I think this was written by the chap that used to sit in the Directors Box until recently but was removed for various comments he made. He could have an axe to grind.
Bit like a lot of us then?
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
Agreed - but did / does it necessarily make him wrong?
I am sometimes bemused by the fortified defences of 'The Board' members on here.
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Interesting how there has become a very strong defence of Lerner the longer the week has gone on but some noticeable shifting of stance on the footballing side and therefore Lambert.
This started after the West Ham game and is now more noticeable. If Lambert does not get sacked soon you can be certain that his future is being discussed and people are being canvassed.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
About what?
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It's been well documented, but MON walking out when he did made things much more difficult to get the right person. I'm not of the school that deemed the Houllier period a disaster. That is a debate for another day. I think we all agree on McLeish being a complete failure for which Lerner cannot be defended, and like I said Lambert was by consensus a popular appointment. The club has tried to back the current manager while at the same time cleaning up the mess of the three regimes prior to him. That they backed the previous managers in wages and transfers should be commended from a spending standpoint even if the contracts turned into anchors. They still spent the money is the point.
I think if we're debating Lerner's ability to run a football club, his presiding over a situation where the finances were mishandled to the extent that three years later we're still cleaning the mess up is pretty damning evidence.
not really, and it is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. He allowed a highly reputable manager to run the football club which only in hindsight have we come to realise it was mishandled. I find it funny listening to the argument that Randy should have been more hands on in light of all of the years Doug was accused of interfering.
Hang on, though, that's an even bigger over simplification.
When MON was spending all that money, I can remember lots of occasions when Gen Krulak was regularly on here, and people specifically told him they were worried about the finances, and more often than not, they mentioned the wage bill to him.
Every single time, the answer was "Honestly, don't worry about the finances, we know exactly what we're doing". Every time. Then, within a year of him fucking off, it turns out we're in big trouble with the wage bill.
Ultimately, Randy was the one with the overview of the finances. It's not like he just let MON do what he want with the money, he must have had some level of control, surely?
And if he didn't, if it really was MON spending uncontrollably, then that is even worse
There's no possible way that a manager spending the club to the brink of extinction can possibly not be ultimately Randy's misjudgement.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
About what?
It's mentioned in there, or at least his side of it is.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
Agreed - but did / does it necessarily make him wrong?
I am sometimes bemused by the fortified defences of 'The Board' members on here.
Who are you referring to with that, though? I think he's probably right about the board on a lot of counts, and I personally am hugely sceptical of their inability to distinguish their arses from their elbows in a lot of senses, but that Hodgson bloke is right up there with Fear on the self publicising thing.
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It's mentioned in there, or at least his side of it is.
Gah. I'm going to have to read it now.
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I think this was written by the chap that used to sit in the Directors Box until recently but was removed for various comments he made. He could have an axe to grind.
He does. But to be fair to him he is a Villa fan through and through.
I dont think his "report" or Kendricks meaningless article achieve anything though.
They boil down to :
"I do not like to see Villa lose and I think the people running the club should fix that or go."
Well gee whizz, it was all so simple!
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[/quote]
I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
[/quote]
A sneaking suspicion Fergal ?
Of course he will make a very tidy amount of money.
How much did he lose when he sold the Cleveland Browns ?
Credit to Lerner for giving it a go with his first Manager, Acorns, the Holte pub and the training facilities.
Of course he will make a very tidy amount of money.
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I think this was written by the chap that used to sit in the Directors Box until recently but was removed for various comments he made. He could have an axe to grind.
He does. But to be fair to him he is a Villa fan through and through.
I dont think his "report" or Kendricks meaningless article achieve anything though.
That's the thing. "Report" suggests it is some kind of analysis based on factual investigation. Whereas, actually, it's just another loudly shouted opinion on the internet.
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I think this was written by the chap that used to sit in the Directors Box until recently but was removed for various comments he made. He could have an axe to grind.
He does. But to be fair to him he is a Villa fan through and through.
I dont think his "report" or Kendricks meaningless article achieve anything though.
They boil down to :
"I do not like to see Villa lose and I think the people running the club should fix that or go."
Well gee whizz, it was all so simple!
The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
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Sounds to me as if the falling out has come as a result of his opinions rather than being the origin of his opinions. However, as dave says, that's only one side of it. I guess we're not likely to hear the other side.
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That he says we never had 4 bad seasons in a row under Ellis makes me think he is a prat.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
Agreed - but did / does it necessarily make him wrong?
I am sometimes bemused by the fortified defences of 'The Board' members on here.
Who are you referring to with that, though? I think he's probably right about the board on a lot of counts, and I personally am hugely sceptical of their inability to distinguish their arses from their elbows in a lot of senses, but that Hodgson bloke is right up there with Fear on the self publicising thing.
Please don't tale it personally.
I think there are a number of people on here who would defend the board for different reasons. I will not. I admit to being hoodwinked into the MON stuff especially as General was saying don't worry about finances- RL is passionate etc....
Since then most major decision made by 'The Board' in terms of football has been very poor. Other people think differently. I disagree,
I think it started by appointing Faulkner to an elevated position - although it only became apparent to me about 4 months later when The Board / his first major recruitment wasn't even available to work.
We are run by amateurs.
Agree on the later points re this Hodgson bloke and this other Fear bloke.
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I think this was written by the chap that used to sit in the Directors Box until recently but was removed for various comments he made. He could have an axe to grind.
He does. But to be fair to him he is a Villa fan through and through.
I dont think his "report" or Kendricks meaningless article achieve anything though.
They boil down to :
"I do not like to see Villa lose and I think the people running the club should fix that or go."
Well gee whizz, it was all so simple!
The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
True. I admit Villa has been very poor recently, I find the getting the knives out by Kendrick & Hodgson a bit cheap.
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There is often a jostling for position when organisations are going through a rocky time, with change imminent. Most articles posted with the air of a rabble rouser on Facebook get support from people, just as there are those who keep close to the management. It just depends where people feel comfortable.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
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Interesting how there has become a very strong defence of Lerner the longer the week has gone on but some noticeable shifting of stance on the footballing side and therefore Lambert.
This started after the West Ham game and is now more noticeable. If Lambert does not get sacked soon you can be certain that his future is being discussed and people are being canvassed.
Bin him asap.
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"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
Whilst the 2003 Hodgson Report was a pile of shit, his comments above are more or less spot-on. Very hard to argue with the majority of the article.
First thing that shocked me was why Randy would share with Lambert Hodgson's letter. It seems the monkey controls the organ grinder.
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Just found this posted on Facebook.
http://avillafan.com/site/11469/the-hodgson-report-on-aston-villa-11-years-after-the-original/
Can this response be verified as genuine?
Because if it is I may have to adjust my position on the Board being in any way approachable and get the bed sheet out of the washing and start photocopying the £ signs...
"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
The title may well be a bit up himself, but there's not much to disagree with in the piece itself.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
Lambert and the team have had plenty of time over the season to prepare. As Matt Kendrick mentioned, those at B6 seem very "relaxed" about our position. Hopefully this will be the first of a long overdue wake up call.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
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Sacking the manager is only treating the symptom.
It is so obvious the club needs to change the way it operates.
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"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
Whilst the 2003 Hodgson Report was a pile of shit, his comments above are more or less spot-on. Very hard to argue with the majority of the article.
First thing that shocked me was why Randy would share with Lambert Hodgson's letter. It seems the monkey controls the organ grinder.
Tail wagging the dog, sort of thing. I also found that strange. Lambert must be equally seething seeing the slating he is getting everywhere. I reckon Culverhouse will be having words with the crowd again soon as he is bound to get some stick.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
Good. It's about time Villa fans actually stood up and said a few choice things about how the way the club is being run.
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That he says we never had 4 bad seasons in a row under Ellis makes me think he is a prat.
Go on then, tell us when was the last time Villa had 4 consecutive relegation battles.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
Yes but it is in a time of crisis that you want to feel reassured by the owner's presence and leadership.
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"The Hodgson Report"
What a self important twat.
Whilst the 2003 Hodgson Report was a pile of shit, his comments above are more or less spot-on. Very hard to argue with the majority of the article.
First thing that shocked me was why Randy would share with Lambert Hodgson's letter. It seems the monkey controls the organ grinder.
Tail wagging the dog, sort of thing. I also found that strange. Lambert must be equally seething seeing the slating he is getting everywhere. I reckon Culverhouse will be having words with the crowd again soon as he is bound to get some stick.
Also possibly explains Lambert's comments about "criticism" from some quarters and Lerner's rush to reward him with a new extended contract. It's like MON all over again except this time, Lerner wants his manager close to him. Lambert and Lerner appear to be sleeping in the same bed.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
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And he wonders why they did?
Don't bite the hand that feeds, I guess. Although I have no idea what kind of feed you get in the Director's Box.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
What's his excuse for abysmal performances when Hodgson doesn't do a report?
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
Yes but it is in a time of crisis that you want to feel reassured by the owner's presence and leadership.
I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few months ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that When Randy sells up he will have made a very tidy amount of money out of us...
A sneaking suspicion Fergal ?
Of course he will make a very tidy amount of money.
How much did he lose when he sold the Cleveland Browns ?
Credit to Lerner for giving it a go with his first Manager, Acorns, the Holte pub and the training facilities.
Of course he will make a very tidy amount of money.
Without wishing to incur the wrath of Davw Woodhall for talking about finances :) (tongue firmly in cheek) how will Randy end up in profit from project Villa?
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
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And he wonders why they did?
Don't bite the hand that feeds, I guess. Although I have no idea what kind of feed you get in the Director's Box.
He paid to sit in there. He was hardly a club employee.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
Because it's what I think, maybe? Do you expect me to change my opinion because it's fashionable or might get a few likes on Facebook?
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
Yes but it is in a time of crisis that you want to feel reassured by the owner's presence and leadership.
I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few months ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
Any suggestions, Dave?
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
Because it's what I think, maybe? Do you expect me to change my opinion because it's fashionable or might get a few likes on Facebook?
I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
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I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few moths ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
The point surely though is whether such assurances are genuine. If the club appointed such a figurehead he / she would only be a corporate mouthpiece, regardless of how well respected they were. If the statement is bollocks, it doesn't much matter whether it's SGT or Comical Ali presenting it. Like paulie said earlier, Krulak spun us all the line about 'we know what we're doing' but it turned out to be cobblers and it would have been cobblers regardless of who said it. But I couldn't see SGT, for instance, being appointed and given the remit to comment independently about how he saw things being done.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
Yes but it is in a time of crisis that you want to feel reassured by the owner's presence and leadership.
I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few months ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
Any suggestions, Dave?
I said Charlie Aitken last time.
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I hope this discussion doesn't get diverted to personalities rather than addressing the issues.
It's far too important to get sidetracked.
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
Yes but it is in a time of crisis that you want to feel reassured by the owner's presence and leadership.
I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few months ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
Any suggestions, Dave?
I said Charlie Aitken last time.
From what I've heard Aitken isn't very happy with Lerner and co.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
Because it's what I think, maybe? Do you expect me to change my opinion because it's fashionable or might get a few likes on Facebook?
I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
If Doug were still the owner and we were in this position, both on and off the field, there would be a shit storm of biblical proportions flung against him.
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
The only thing we want is for him to invest again. Football is a very fickle game and if he stops this "young and hungry" nonsense (cheap poor quality signings) and starts to buy quality PL standard footballers again the fans will be on his side. Obviously you don't need me to tell you this. It's blatantly obvious.
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
Because it's what I think, maybe? Do you expect me to change my opinion because it's fashionable or might get a few likes on Facebook?
I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
If Doug were still the owner and we were in this position, both on and off the field, there would be a shit storm of biblical proportions flung against him.
Oh without a shadow of a doubt.
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
As I mentioned several times in the last few days, we're the sixth biggest net spender over the last five years. It's what we do with the money that really matters. Ask Everton and Spurs, they're both in the black with their 5 year net spend.
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
What if we go down? Will the available cash be enough to get us back up?
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
Because it's what I think, maybe? Do you expect me to change my opinion because it's fashionable or might get a few likes on Facebook?
I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
If Doug were still the owner and we were in this position, both on and off the field, there would be a shit storm of biblical proportions flung against him.
Oh without a shadow of a doubt.
So how does Randy get away with it?
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
And he wonders why they did?
Well at least he had the balls to say it.
A lot of people are saying a lot of things. It doesn't mean that they are right or that their opinions deserve to go unchallenged.
He's said his piece and he's entitled to do so and he's been thrown out of the Directors because of it. Good luck luck to him, I agree with everything he's said, and it's good to see prominent Villa fans actually standing up and protesting at the way Villa have gone into decline over the last 4 years. I don't see much of that from you, Dave, and you're the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine. In fact i often see you jumping to Lerner's defence on here. Why is that?
Because it's what I think, maybe? Do you expect me to change my opinion because it's fashionable or might get a few likes on Facebook?
I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
If Doug were still the owner and we were in this position, both on and off the field, there would be a shit storm of biblical proportions flung against him.
Oh without a shadow of a doubt.
So how does Randy get away with it?
Christ knows. It remains one of life's great mysteries.
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I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
That will depend ultimately on how well it's spent, based on how far up the table it gets us. Like you said earlier, that's the bottom line for most fans.
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Randy's put more money in and he means well.
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I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few months ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
That is a fair point. I suppose then that brings attention to the fact that Faulkner, despite his title, hasn't really assumed the role of the said figurehead. Although I don't have a major problem with him, he certainly doesn't carry much respect or authority amongst the fans it seems. Unfairly scapegoated by many in fact.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
Good. It's about time Villa fans actually stood up and said a few choice things about how the way the club is being run.
Yes, but unfortunately these choice things will carry little weight in the national press when they come from a man who pompously calls his rant a "report" when it is nothing but a list of his opinions, and when these opinions are clumsily stacked around his admission that he has had a personal falling out with the people he is criticising. That fact alone will undermine his whole argument in the eyes of the vast majority who have no idea what's happening to our club. Hodgson looks to me like another Fear, a man whose ego blinds him to the fact that being a self-important prat rarely helps.
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I don't entirely agree. You want someone's reassurance, not necessarily the owner. It goes back to a debate we had on here a few months ago - the club needs a figurehead (not a president or the mythical 'football man') who is respected by supporters and the general football public, who can offer such reassurance that things are either moving in the right direction or being dealt with.
That is a fair point. I suppose then that brings attention to the fact that Faulkner, despite his title, hasn't really assumed the role of the said figurehead. Although I don't have a major problem with him, he certainly doesn't carry much respect or authority amongst the fans it seems. Unfairly scapegoated by many in fact.
Whatever the club, the CEO is chief scapegoat.
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I'm not sure he deserves all these personal attacks does he? I mean, he's been called a prat (x2), a twat, pompous, an ego maniac, and so on, some of which may well be true but surely the most important thing is whether what he says is valid?
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
Good. It's about time Villa fans actually stood up and said a few choice things about how the way the club is being run.
Yes, but unfortunately these choice things will carry little weight in the national press when they come from a man who pompously calls his rant a "report" when it is nothing but a list of his opinions, and when these opinions are clumsily stacked around his admission that he has had a personal falling out with the people he is criticising. That fact alone will undermine his whole argument in the eyes of the vast majority who have no idea what's happening to our club. Hodgson looks to me like another Fear, a man whose ego blinds him to the fact that being a self-important prat rarely helps.
I think they're completely different. I always got the impression Fear was after a job down the Villa and was Lerner's unofficial brown nose back in the day. Hodgson couldn't give a damn who he upsets by the look of it, and only wants Villa to do well. That's why he's spoken out. Fair play to him. It's about time the apathy was blown away at Villa Park.
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I'm not sure he deserves all these personal attacks does he? I mean, he's been called a prat (x2), a twat, pompous, an ego maniac, and so on, some of which may well be true but surely the most important thing is whether what he says is valid?
Precisely. It's pathetic.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
Good. It's about time Villa fans actually stood up and said a few choice things about how the way the club is being run.
Yes, but unfortunately these choice things will carry little weight in the national press when they come from a man who pompously calls his rant a "report" when it is nothing but a list of his opinions, and when these opinions are clumsily stacked around his admission that he has had a personal falling out with the people he is criticising. That fact alone will undermine his whole argument in the eyes of the vast majority who have no idea what's happening to our club. Hodgson looks to me like another Fear, a man whose ego blinds him to the fact that being a self-important prat rarely helps.
I think they're completely different. I always got the impression Fear was after a job down the Villa and was Lerner's unofficial brown nose back in the day. Hodgson couldn't give a damn who he upsets by the look of it, and only wants Villa to do well. That's why he's spoken out. Fair play to him. It's about time the apathy was blown away at Villa Park.
But ultimately, what weight can be attached to it? It's one man's opinion and no more credible than an H&V article or a host of blog rants.
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Oh goody. I see the Daily mail and the telegraph sports Journos are up Hodgsons arse for his article so it will make the papers and Lambert will be pelted with it in his presser.
I am sure that will help Lambert and the team focus as they train for Sunday.
Jesus.
Good. It's about time Villa fans actually stood up and said a few choice things about how the way the club is being run.
Yes, but unfortunately these choice things will carry little weight in the national press when they come from a man who pompously calls his rant a "report" when it is nothing but a list of his opinions, and when these opinions are clumsily stacked around his admission that he has had a personal falling out with the people he is criticising. That fact alone will undermine his whole argument in the eyes of the vast majority who have no idea what's happening to our club. Hodgson looks to me like another Fear, a man whose ego blinds him to the fact that being a self-important prat rarely helps.
I think they're completely different. I always got the impression Fear was after a job down the Villa and was Lerner's unofficial brown nose back in the day. Hodgson couldn't give a damn who he upsets by the look of it, and only wants Villa to do well. That's why he's spoken out. Fair play to him. It's about time the apathy was blown away at Villa Park.
But ultimately, what weight can be attached to it? It's one man's opinion and no more credible than an H&V article or a host of blog rants.
Well for one I hope the press pick up on it. It's about time a bit of pressure was put on Lerner and co. He's got away with murder these last few years.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
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But ultimately, what weight can be attached to it? It's one man's opinion and no more credible than an H&V article or a host of blog rants.
The weight is cumulative really. As you say, individually, all these articles, blogs, rants or whatever are just expressions of one person's opinion but taken together you can form from them a reasonable view of which way the wind is blowing.
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Would the weight of public opinion really be against much of what Hodgeson is saying? My feeling is that most would agree that the leadership lacks footballing nous, that we need to broaden our approach to the playing side and that Lambert's tactics have been suspect.
He has an axe to grind for sure, but nothing is there that the majority of people would expressly disagree with.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
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You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
Publish and be damned. The club puts out messages tailored to its own agenda, all clubs do; why then not the other side of the story?
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You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
Publish and be damned. The club puts out messages tailored to its own agenda, all clubs do; why then not the other side of the story?
Because then you're headed down the road of 'fan spokesman,' giving far too much weight to individuals (particularly on the internet) and all that bollocks.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
I'm not sure what you mean. If I didn't like what was being said I'd take no notice of it.
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You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
Publish and be damned. The club puts out messages tailored to its own agenda, all clubs do; why then not the other side of the story?
Because then you're headed down the road of 'fan spokesman,' giving far too much weight to individuals (particularly on the internet) and all that bollocks.
I've never read anything from Hodgson about him wanting to be a fan spokesman. I've heard you interviewed on radio and TV yet I've never once thought of you as any spokesman so why should I or anyone think of Hodgson as one?
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
I'm not sure what you mean. If I didn't like what was being said I'd take no notice of it.
I haven't looked at the reports but 'Fan Slams Villa Board' would be my guess at the headlines. Would you be so eager for them to give equal prominence to a pro-board article?
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Because then you're headed down the road of 'fan spokesman,' giving far too much weight to individuals (particularly on the internet) and all that bollocks.
I don't see how otherwise the other side of the story gets told. It seems to me it doesn't much matter who the alternative version is attributed to so long as it's valid. I'm not particularly bothered about seeing 'fan spokesman Jonathan Fear / Dave Woodhall / Howard Hodgson / whoever' in articles so long as what they say is valid. It's up to the reader to determine that for themselves and they can't do that if they don't get a chance to read it.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
I'm not sure what you mean. If I didn't like what was being said I'd take no notice of it.
I haven't looked at the reports but 'Fan Slams Villa Board' would be my guess at the headlines. Would you be so eager for them to give equal prominence to a pro-board article?
I hope that is the headline, as they deserve to be put under pressure. As for a pro board article, I doubt if they'd be many fans wanting to write something pro board considering the crap they've put us through these last 4 years, but if you want to write one, go ahead and write it.
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I haven't looked at the reports but 'Fan Slams Villa Board' would be my guess at the headlines. Would you be so eager for them to give equal prominence to a pro-board article?
Anything the club puts out is going to be pro-board, unless there's some rogue maniac in the press department.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
I'm not sure what you mean. If I didn't like what was being said I'd take no notice of it.
I haven't looked at the reports but 'Fan Slams Villa Board' would be my guess at the headlines. Would you be so eager for them to give equal prominence to a pro-board article?
I hope that is the headline, as they deserve to be put under pressure. As for a pro board article, I doubt if they'd be many fans wanting to write something pro board considering the crap they've put us through these last 4 years, but if you want to write one, go ahead and write it.
I've no desire to, but that's not the point.
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That he says we never had 4 bad seasons in a row under Ellis makes me think he is a prat.
Go on then, tell us when was the last time Villa had 4 consecutive relegation battles.
Bad seasons is the term used. Nearly relegated, relegated bottom of the league, promoted by the skin of our teeth with things out of our control by the end, nearly relegated.
If that isn't 4 bad seasons in a row then I don't know what is.
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That he says we never had 4 bad seasons in a row under Ellis makes me think he is a prat.
Go on then, tell us when was the last time Villa had 4 consecutive relegation battles.
Bad seasons is the term used. Nearly relegated, relegated bottom of the league, promoted by the skin of our teeth with things out of our control by the end, nearly relegated.
If that isn't 4 bad seasons in a row then I don't know what is.
Well if you're gonna split hairs, when was the last time promotion was deemed a bad season?
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Whatever the club, the CEO is chief scapegoat.
It depends on the structure of the club as to whether it is unfair though. At a club like Spurs, Levy basically has power over the strategy and makes all the major decisions for example. Whereas I don't believe this is the case with Faulkner which is why I don't blame him for the McLeish hiring or the general decline over the last few years.
Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Harsh to dismiss it as 'one-man's personal grudge'. Firstly because most of the points made do echo the concerns and thoughts of many. Secondly because I don't believe that Howard made it personal in his piece. He expresses his disappointment about his treatment by the club for just daring to question the direction under the current regime, made all the worse due to his and his family's long-standing association with the club establishment. Such a draconian reaction by them is worth mentioning and revealing to other fans as it gives a telling insight into those who run and have control here.
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Bad seasons is the term used. Nearly relegated, relegated bottom of the league, promoted by the skin of our teeth with things out of our control by the end, nearly relegated.
If that isn't 4 bad seasons in a row then I don't know what is.
I'm not sure that even Risso at his gloomiest would describe promotion as a bad season.
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That he says we never had 4 bad seasons in a row under Ellis makes me think he is a prat.
Go on then, tell us when was the last time Villa had 4 consecutive relegation battles.
Bad seasons is the term used. Nearly relegated, relegated bottom of the league, promoted by the skin of our teeth with things out of our control by the end, nearly relegated.
If that isn't 4 bad seasons in a row then I don't know what is.
Well if you're gonna split hairs, when was the last time promotion was deemed a bad season?
I'm hardly splitting hairs when the term used in Hodgson's post is bad seasons, it is you that switched it to relegation battles. When it involved Aston Villa. Promotion is shit because we shouldn't be there in the first place.
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Bad seasons is the term used. Nearly relegated, relegated bottom of the league, promoted by the skin of our teeth with things out of our control by the end, nearly relegated.
If that isn't 4 bad seasons in a row then I don't know what is.
I'm not sure that even Risso at his gloomiest would describe promotion as a bad season.
So not being in the top flight isn't a bad season for Aston Villa?
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So not being in the top flight isn't a bad season for Aston Villa?
If relegation has happened then promotion is the best possible response to it surely?
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I'm not sure he deserves all these personal attacks does he? I mean, he's been called a prat (x2), a twat, pompous, an ego maniac, and so on, some of which may well be true but surely the most important thing is whether what he says is valid?
Precisely. It's pathetic.
No, that's not the most important thing at all. My points, which you seem to have missed, are that the validity of his argument is sorely undermined by his admission that he's had a personal fall-out with the people he's criticising, and also that he's failed to back up his opinions with factual evidence. It's not a report, it's an opinion piece, and it's the opinion piece of a man who has an axe to grind. He may make some valid points that resonate with a lot of us, but he's simply not the right man to be making them.
If the aim here is to put pressure on the board by publicising our dissatisfaction and alerting the nation to our plight (and I assume it is), then the most important thing is to have it presented articulately and factually. We have to be able to present the irrefutable evidence that justifies our disgruntlement, otherwise we're just another bunch of whingeing fans who think we deserve better.
You might be happy for Hodgson to put himself forward as a spokesman for all of us, but I'm not. If his piece makes the national press all the focus will be on his spat and his motives for writing the piece. Any important issues he raises may well be overlooked, and that in turn might make it harder for someone else to bring them to wider attention. He doesn't appear to have considered that, which is why I have referred to him as an egocentric prat. Or whatever it was I called him. I apologise if that offends your sensibilities but I think he could do more harm than good.
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So not being in the top flight isn't a bad season for Aston Villa?
If relegation has happened then promotion is the best possible response to it surely?
Staying up on goal difference is better than being relegated, won't stop it being a bad season will it.
If you and SH think Villa being in the second divsion was a good season then more power to you, I fucking hated it and thought it was shit.
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That he says we never had 4 bad seasons in a row under Ellis makes me think he is a prat.
Go on then, tell us when was the last time Villa had 4 consecutive relegation battles.
Bad seasons is the term used. Nearly relegated, relegated bottom of the league, promoted by the skin of our teeth with things out of our control by the end, nearly relegated.
If that isn't 4 bad seasons in a row then I don't know what is.
Well if you're gonna split hairs, when was the last time promotion was deemed a bad season?
I'm hardly splitting hairs when the term used in Hodgson's post is bad seasons, it is you that switched it to relegation battles. When it involved Aston Villa. Promotion is shit because we shouldn't be there in the first place.
Promotion was great considering how shit we were back in the mid 80s, so no, it wasn't a 'bad' season, and it started a renaissance of the club as well.
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I'm not sure he deserves all these personal attacks does he? I mean, he's been called a prat (x2), a twat, pompous, an ego maniac, and so on, some of which may well be true but surely the most important thing is whether what he says is valid?
Precisely. It's pathetic.
No, that's not the most important thing at all. My points, which you seem to have missed, are that the validity of his argument is sorely undermined by his admission that he's had a personal fall-out with the people he's criticising, and also that he's failed to back up his opinions with factual evidence. It's not a report, it's an opinion piece, and it's the opinion piece of a man who has an axe to grind. He may make some valid points that resonate with a lot of us, but he's simply not the right man to be making them.
If the aim here is to put pressure on the board by publicising our dissatisfaction and alerting the nation to our plight (and I assume it is), then the most important thing is to have it presented articulately and factually. We have to be able to present the irrefutable evidence that justifies our disgruntlement, otherwise we're just another bunch of whingeing fans who think we deserve better.
You might be happy for Hodgson to put himself forward as a spokesman for all of us, but I'm not. If his piece makes the national press all the focus will be on his spat and his motives for writing the piece. Any important issues he raises may well be overlooked, and that in turn might make it harder for someone else to bring them to wider attention. He doesn't appear to have considered that, which is why I have referred to him as an egocentric prat. Or whatever it was I called him. I apologise if that offends your sensibilities but I think he could do more harm than good.
It doesn't offend me at all. We're all entitled to our opinions. The personal stuff isn't necessary though.
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I'm not sure he deserves all these personal attacks does he? I mean, he's been called a prat (x2), a twat, pompous, an ego maniac, and so on, some of which may well be true but surely the most important thing is whether what he says is valid?
Precisely. It's pathetic.
No, that's not the most important thing at all. My points, which you seem to have missed, are that the validity of his argument is sorely undermined by his admission that he's had a personal fall-out with the people he's criticising, and also that he's failed to back up his opinions with factual evidence. It's not a report, it's an opinion piece, and it's the opinion piece of a man who has an axe to grind. He may make some valid points that resonate with a lot of us, but he's simply not the right man to be making them.
If the aim here is to put pressure on the board by publicising our dissatisfaction and alerting the nation to our plight (and I assume it is), then the most important thing is to have it presented articulately and factually. We have to be able to present the irrefutable evidence that justifies our disgruntlement, otherwise we're just another bunch of whingeing fans who think we deserve better.
You might be happy for Hodgson to put himself forward as a spokesman for all of us, but I'm not. If his piece makes the national press all the focus will be on his spat and his motives for writing the piece. Any important issues he raises may well be overlooked, and that in turn might make it harder for someone else to bring them to wider attention. He doesn't appear to have considered that, which is why I have referred to him as an egocentric prat. Or whatever it was I called him. I apologise if that offends your sensibilities but I think he could do more harm than good.
Hodgson was tweeting his concerns way before he was given the boot from the Directors and has continued it ever since, so it can hardly be said he's just bitter and angry at his boot out the door.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
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Staying up on goal difference is better than being relegated, won't stop it being a bad season will it.
If you and SH think Villa being in the second divsion was a good season then more power to you, I fucking hated it and thought it was shit.
I know you're trying to cobble 4 bad seasons in a row together but arguing that a promotion season is one of them isn't the most convincing way to do it.
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Staying up on goal difference is better than being relegated, won't stop it being a bad season will it.
If you and SH think Villa being in the second divsion was a good season then more power to you, I fucking hated it and thought it was shit.
I know you're trying to cobble 4 bad seasons in a row together but arguing that a promotion season is one of them isn't the most convincing way to do it.
I always forget Hilts, no one can have a different opinion to you can they. I think it was shit, you don't. I already said knock yourself out believing it was a good season.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
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Staying up on goal difference is better than being relegated, won't stop it being a bad season will it.
If you and SH think Villa being in the second divsion was a good season then more power to you, I fucking hated it and thought it was shit.
I know you're trying to cobble 4 bad seasons in a row together but arguing that a promotion season is one of them isn't the most convincing way to do it.
I always forget Hilts, no one can have a different opinion to you can they. I think it was shit, you don't. I already said knock yourself out believing it was a good season.
Where the hell has he said no one can have a different opinion to him?
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
I said if, not that we did. You need new glasses SH as you misread a lot.
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I'm not sure he deserves all these personal attacks does he? I mean, he's been called a prat (x2), a twat, pompous, an ego maniac, and so on, some of which may well be true but surely the most important thing is whether what he says is valid?
Precisely. It's pathetic.
No, that's not the most important thing at all. My points, which you seem to have missed, are that the validity of his argument is sorely undermined by his admission that he's had a personal fall-out with the people he's criticising, and also that he's failed to back up his opinions with factual evidence. It's not a report, it's an opinion piece, and it's the opinion piece of a man who has an axe to grind. He may make some valid points that resonate with a lot of us, but he's simply not the right man to be making them.
If the aim here is to put pressure on the board by publicising our dissatisfaction and alerting the nation to our plight (and I assume it is), then the most important thing is to have it presented articulately and factually. We have to be able to present the irrefutable evidence that justifies our disgruntlement, otherwise we're just another bunch of whingeing fans who think we deserve better.
You might be happy for Hodgson to put himself forward as a spokesman for all of us, but I'm not. If his piece makes the national press all the focus will be on his spat and his motives for writing the piece. Any important issues he raises may well be overlooked, and that in turn might make it harder for someone else to bring them to wider attention. He doesn't appear to have considered that, which is why I have referred to him as an egocentric prat. Or whatever it was I called him. I apologise if that offends your sensibilities but I think he could do more harm than good.
Hodgson was tweeting his concerns way before he was given the boot from the Directors and has continued it ever since, so it can hardly be said he's just bitter and angry at his boot out the door.
It can be said. It probably will be said.
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I always forget Hilts, no one can have a different opinion to you can they. I think it was shit, you don't. I already said knock yourself out believing it was a good season.
Calm down dear, it's only a difference of opinion. If you think achieving promotion at the first time of asking represents a bad season then so be it. I'm merely suggesting that perhaps *not* doing that might constitute a better example of a bad season. Nothing particularly controversial about that I wouldn't say. Of course, you may not have enjoyed being the in the Second Division but that isn't really what Hodgson is driving at.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
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Surely if 16th in the top flight is a bad season, then any position in a lower league is worse? That's how I look at it anyway.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
I said if, not that we did. You need new glasses SH as you misread a lot.
I know full well you said if, I'm just confused why you said it because we came straight back up in '88. We didn't finish 6th and scrape into a play off place.
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Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Strange? It's downright weird that some people see promotion as a bad season. Getting relegated in the first place is the bad part; coming straight back up is the good part surely?
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Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Strange? It's downright weird that some people see promotion as a bad season. Getting relegated in the first place is the bad part; coming straight back up is the good part surely?
"Like Muhammed Ali winning the Boys Brigade championships" - Harry Parkes.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Well I don't know about you, Dave, but I felt good at the end of that season knowing we were promoted.
4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
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Blimey, the number of times I see on here that being in the Third Division was bloody marvellous. Maybe it's only the Second Division that's crap.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
I said if, not that we did. You need new glasses SH as you misread a lot.
I know full well you said if, I'm just confused why you said it because we came straight back up in '88. We didn't finish 6th and scrape into a play off place.
You said promotion was good full stop. I said that if we went down this year (for arguments sake) and then finished 6th and got up in the playoffs I can't see you thinking 6th in division two as a good season just because we got promoted. I know I wouldn't, all i'd feel was relief we were up, no good about it.
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Blimey, the number of times I see on here that being in the Third Division was bloody marvellous. Maybe it's only the Second Division that's crap.
I can't comment on then as i'd only just been born, but even if we won every league game i'd fucking hate with a passion being in the third division.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Well I don't know about you, Dave, but I felt good at the end of that season knowing we were promoted.
4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
Fancy me having a mind of my own. It's an absolute disgrace. What was that about you misreading?
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
I said if, not that we did. You need new glasses SH as you misread a lot.
I know full well you said if, I'm just confused why you said it because we came straight back up in '88. We didn't finish 6th and scrape into a play off place.
You said promotion was good full stop. I said that if we went down this year (for arguments sake) and then finished 6th and got up in the playoffs I can't see you thinking 6th in division two as a good season just because we got promoted. I know I wouldn't, all i'd feel was relief we were up, no good about it.
Promotion is good, especially finishing 2nd (like we did) and going straight back up. The play offs is not something I'd ever want to see happen to Villa. It would be too stressful.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Well I don't know about you, Dave, but I felt good at the end of that season knowing we were promoted.
4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
Fancy me having a mind of my own. It's an absolute disgrace. What was that about you misreading?
You don't seem to have a problem with the club and the way it's being run into decline. Why is that, Dave?
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
I'm not sure what you mean. If I didn't like what was being said I'd take no notice of it.
I haven't looked at the reports but 'Fan Slams Villa Board' would be my guess at the headlines. Would you be so eager for them to give equal prominence to a pro-board article?
I know just the man to write it....
Can't understand your refusal to even question those in authority at the club, and that recently extended to the antics of some former players bizarrely too.
What is your counter pro board argument to Hodgson's points? If it's just another snide one liner, forget it. Am interested to hear from others who have the opposing view.
I think Lerner's stewardship of the club has been a worsening disaster. From signing all the MON checks, to not appointing a competent board, to listening to Alex Ferguson's advice re McLeish. In my mind anyway he hasn't got the foggiest how to run a football club. Acorns, Holte Hotel sure nice gestures but let's judge him professionally on his role as chairman. He bought a club very cheap and has saddled it with ridiculous debt.
On Paul Faulkener, not even sure what his brief is supposed to be. Compared to Dein, Levy, Gill etc, he seems a junior in comparison.
Finally, the first team manager Paul Lambert can only be judged by the resources at his disposal. Clearly the Stone Age efforts at Villa Park all season can only confirm the fact that he is miles out of his depth. If we let him go, do we think he would come back and prove us wrong at a different club? The answer is an emphatic no from me anyway. He would just join the merry go round with his predecessor.
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Blimey, the number of times I see on here that being in the Third Division was bloody marvellous. Maybe it's only the Second Division that's crap.
I can't comment on then as i'd only just been born, but even if we won every league game i'd fucking hate with a passion being in the third division.
I don't doubt it; I'm just pointing out that plenty of others loved it. It's academic really though because I don't think Hodgson is defining a 'bad season' as being merely one that he (or you) personally didn't enjoy. I think he's aiming for something a little more objective than that.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Well I don't know about you, Dave, but I felt good at the end of that season knowing we were promoted.
4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
Fancy me having a mind of my own. It's an absolute disgrace. What was that about you misreading?
You don't seem to have a problem with the club and the way it's being run into decline. Why is that, Dave?
Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
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Do you really want the press to go with one man's personal grudge and pass it off as the weight of public opinion?
Yes I do actually. I could care less about his ejection from the directors, but the reason they threw him out was because of his concerns of where the club is heading, which is 100% relevant. We've had 4 years of decline and it's about time we put a bit of pressure on the club.
You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
I'm not sure what you mean. If I didn't like what was being said I'd take no notice of it.
I haven't looked at the reports but 'Fan Slams Villa Board' would be my guess at the headlines. Would you be so eager for them to give equal prominence to a pro-board article?
I know just the man to write it....
Can't understand your refusal to even question those in authority at the club, and that recently extended to the antics of some former players bizarrely too.
What is your counter pro board argument to Hodgson's points? If it's just another snide one liner, forget it. Am interested to hear from others who have the opposing view.
I think Lerner's stewardship of the club has been a worsening disaster. From signing all the MON checks, to not appointing a competent board, to listening to Alex Ferguson's advice re McLeish. In my mind anyway he hasn't got the foggiest how to run a football club. Acorns, Holte Hotel sure nice gestures but let's judge him professionally on his role as chairman. He bought a club very cheap and has saddled it with ridiculous debt.
On Paul Faulkener, not even sure what his brief is supposed to be. Compared to Dein, Levy, Gill etc, he seems a junior in comparison.
Finally, the first team manager Paul Lambert can only be judged by the resources at his disposal. Clearly the Stone Age efforts at Villa Park all season can only confirm the fact that he is miles out of his depth. If we let him go, do we think he would come back and prove us wrong at a different club? The answer is an emphatic no from me anyway. He would just join the merry go round with his predecessor.
If by that you mean me, then I wouldn't want to write such a thing, for the reasons outlined earlier. What you mean by former players is beyond me.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
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I can just imagine you saying it's great if we got promoted in the playoffs if we went down. As for the renaissance, oh dear. Where were we a few years before? And then who arrived?
We didn't get promoted via the play offs, we came straight back up. By the way since promotion we've been in the top division ever since. It's been a long long time since we've gone this long in the top division without relegation. Now we've had 4 relegation battles on the trot.
Being in division two is a good season and finishing in the top half/not being in the bottom six at all is a relegation battle. Strange how different people see things differently.
Well I don't know about you, Dave, but I felt good at the end of that season knowing we were promoted.
4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
Fancy me having a mind of my own. It's an absolute disgrace. What was that about you misreading?
You don't seem to have a problem with the club and the way it's being run into decline. Why is that, Dave?
Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
Yeah I was dancing in the streets when we were relegated in '87.
Jesus wept.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
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Dave do you have to patronise and misrepresent everybody who dares disagree with you?
So blindingly obvious what he was arguing there but he got the usual treatment.
And you aren't properly engaging with any of the points raised.
WHat's the bloody point anymore. Just fed up.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
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Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
But promotion is essentially a good season though right? As opposed to the bad one the season before?
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Dave do you have to patronise and misrepresent everybody who dares disagree with you?
So blindingly obvious what he was arguing there but he got the usual treatment.
And you aren't properly engaging with any of the points raised.
WHat's the bloody point anymore. Just fed up.
Am I not allowed to disagree with anyone now? One minute I'm having a decent debate, the next I'm having my throat jumped down and when I have a go back I'm in the wrong.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
I'll take that as a no then.
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Dave do you have to patronise and misrepresent everybody who dares disagree with you?
So blindingly obvious what he was arguing there but he got the usual treatment.
And you aren't properly engaging with any of the points raised.
WHat's the bloody point anymore. Just fed up.
Am I not allowed to disagree with anyone now? One minute I'm having a decent debate, the next I'm having my throat jumped down and when I have a go back I'm in the wrong.
You're quite capable of jumping down the throats of posters you don't agree with as well.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
I'll take that as a no then.
Take it as what you like. Let's see what the future holds first.
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Dave do you have to patronise and misrepresent everybody who dares disagree with you?
So blindingly obvious what he was arguing there but he got the usual treatment.
And you aren't properly engaging with any of the points raised.
WHat's the bloody point anymore. Just fed up.
Am I not allowed to disagree with anyone now? One minute I'm having a decent debate, the next I'm having my throat jumped down and when I have a go back I'm in the wrong.
You're quite capable of jumping down the throats of posters you don't agree with as well.
Indeed. But the strange thing is that they don't seem to get picked up on it.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
I'll take that as a no then.
Take it as what you like. Let's see what the future holds first.
Fair enough.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
I'll take that as a no then.
Take it as what you like. Let's see what the future holds first.
Fair enough.
I think a good season is relative, if we go down then obviously its a bad season. As things are looking at the moment if we manage to stay up on goal difference I would be happy about that, not think it's a good season but relieved.
If we go down then not coming straight back up is a bad season, getting back up would be a good season. None of those scenarios would really make me think WOW what a brilliant season...
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One of the barometers of 'a good season' is seeing how many season tickets are sold for the following season. We hear the same things every year: 'wait for summer', 'wait for January'. I will renew but not because I think it is going to get better. It would be nice to have an excited feeling about things when the fixtures arrive. However, all I can think of is a Manager plus his cronies who have arrived at Villa Park and who seem to think that we will just have to like the way that they operate. I certainly don't like it. This argument has been to-ing and fro-ing all night. It probably needs splitting into two now as it is getting muddled. Who is for or against Lambert and, likewise, Lerner?
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
Lets not forget we also finished 11th in the season we were European champions - I must agree with these other posters that I find your reluctance to criticise the way the club is being run rather perplexing .
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
Lets not forget we also finished 11th in the season we were European champions - I must agree with these other posters that I find your reluctance to criticise the way the club is being run rather perplexing .
The way it's being run being not spending shit loads of money?
Apart from the big mistake of TSM, where has Randy really gone wrong?
The vast majority wanted MON, most were happy with PL and GH didn't look to be that bad at the time.
So, TSM and not spending loads of money, which he's now doing because he originally spent shit loads of money. How many clubs spend lots? Not many. Why should we be any different? Do you want us to constantly spend money we don't have?
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There was a mention earlier of someone, not connected with this site, wanting a job with the club. That may be an old tale, I don't know. If the job that he/she wanted was to represent fans then, surely, it would be a sticky wicket for him/her. He/she would hardly be able to represent fans with real gripes on the footballing side or concern with the board in general. He/she could convey messages about pies, tickets and Bovril, all of which are things that the Club can control and are perfectly valid customer complaints / compliments. Would that really be what he/she wanted to do? If someone said 'Please represent me. I think Lambert must go.' Would he/she really tell them that and risk losing his/her job.
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Lambdrew08 Report 2014
I'm a self publiscising Holte Ender the latest of 5 generations of Villa Season Ticket Holders none of whom ever went within 50 yards of the directors box, spoke to Doug or had any desire to do so. I've been in the Trinity posh bits a few times and seen a few of our executives but have inherited a similar desire not to speak to them.
1971-1983
I first went in 1971 as a 5 year old in the third division. By the time I left school we were European Champions and officially the second best team in the world.
I saw players of a quality that I will never see again in a Villa shirt. I am both blessed and cursed to have been around in this era. The rest of my life, in a footy sense will never be this good. Off the pitch we were lead by a young dynamic Doug.
1983-1987
If you think it's bad now count yourself lucky you didn't see this!
1987-1990
Good times ruined by the FA, who regret it probably more than we do! How different would things be if we'd had 20 years of GT.
1990-2000
The last good decade to be a Villa fan. Atkinson, Little and Gregory and trophies. Footy under Atkinson that we'd love now. Some great European nights and not really worried about our status as a top flight club. Off the pitch Doug's powers are waning as we get overtaken commercially. The first of the Sugar Daddy clubs, Blackburn, appear. The era ends, and in hindsight, the misery starts, with the F A Cup Final.
2000-2014
Graham Taylor returns a decade too late, 3.3.3,DOL, below Blues,Chelsea find a Russian,we run out of money and can't afford to pay to water the training pitches, Randy, MON,5-1,Everton away, Man U away,mega salaries, Moscow,Dowd,Citeh,Barry,Milner, TSM. We run out of money, lambert,Bradford, Millwall,below Albion,home form,2 tier away tickets,Sheffield and finally, a last minute defeat.
Conclusion
Owners,Players,Managers come and go.....
But VTID.
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Wow, this kicked off overnight!
My favourite part was the 'promotion = bad season' doublethink.
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Lambdrew08 Report 2014
I'm a self publiscising Holte Ender the latest of 5 generations of Villa Season Ticket Holders none of whom ever went within 50 yards of the directors box, spoke to Doug or had any desire to do so. I've been in the Trinity posh bits a few times and seen a few of our executives but have inherited a similar desire not to speak to them.
1971-1983
I first went in 1971 as a 5 year old in the third division. By the time I left school we were European Champions and officially the second best team in the world.
I saw players of a quality that I will never see again in a Villa shirt. I am both blessed and cursed to have been around in this era. The rest of my life, in a footy sense will never be this good. Off the pitch we were lead by a young dynamic Doug.
1983-1987
If you think it's bad now count yourself lucky you didn't see this!
1987-1990
Good times ruined by the FA, who regret it probably more than we do! How different would things be if we'd had 20 years of GT.
1990-2000
The last good decade to be a Villa fan. Atkinson, Little and Gregory and trophies. Footy under Atkinson that we'd love now. Some great European nights and not really worried about our status as a top flight club. Off the pitch Doug's powers are waning as we get overtaken commercially. The first of the Sugar Daddy clubs, Blackburn, appear. The era ends, and in hindsight, the misery starts, with the F A Cup Final.
2000-2014
Graham Taylor returns a decade too late, 3.3.3,DOL, below Blues,Chelsea find a Russian,we run out of money and can't afford to pay to water the training pitches, Randy, MON,5-1,Everton away, Man U away,mega salaries, Moscow,Dowd,Citeh,Barry,Milner, TSM. We run out of money, lambert,Bradford, Millwall,below Albion,home form,2 tier away tickets,Sheffield and finally, a last minute defeat.
Conclusion
Owners,Players,Managers come and go.....
But VTID.
The 'both blessed and cursed' bit is food for much discussion.
An excellent summary of the different geological era of the Planet Aston Villa, 1971 -2014.
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My argument with Hodgson is simply around him calling it a report when it is at best, an article.
People can agree or disagree about it, but no more importance should be attached to it that Chelt's post, or Leighton's letter. Lots of people have something to say, he is just another one.
As for Dave - he is entitled to take his own editorial in whatever direction he sees fit. He has no brief to represent anyone. He gathers articles randomly as they are sent in, and prints them whether he agrees with them or not, but he doesn't have to change his personal view. With most publications, if people don't like the editorial direction they stop buying it. That is people's right. That's the risk he takes by holding an unpopular view - but it is his choice.
On here, the debate goes in all directions, people don't get banned for slating anyone at the club as far as I have seen. (I stand to be corrected - I might have missed something).
Again - as long as others are allowed to express their opinions, Dave arguing against it does not constitute censorship. It is debate between 2 posters.
I just think that sniping at individuals is counterproductive to what started out as a useful thread.
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Finishing 6th and coming up via the play-offs would be enjoyable but you could hardly call it a good season. The 6th best team in the Championship is going to struggle in the Premier League - we see that all the time. So it would be a damning indictment of how the club had been run if that were to happen.
On the other hand, if we got relegated, RL sold us to a proper billionaire and we came straight back up with 100+ points and a cracking team then I'd call that a good season. In fact, if you offered that to me now I'd bite your hand off. Getting relegated to the 3rd division was probably upsetting for Man City fans but do they care about that now?
Of course, all of that is just fantasy. We could easily get relegated and then struggle next season, fail to get promoted and spend a few years down there - or never come back again. So for that fairly obvious reason, we need to stay up.
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I am a little baffled by the fact that Graham Taylor's first season has been described as bad.
Anyway maybe the Hendrick and Hodgson articles have had the required effect and stoked the fires in some of the longstanding fans on here and on other forums (however inferior they may be).
Apathy is the enemy at the moment - influenced by a general malaise which has emanated from the club for too long.
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I don't agree with people being banned from VIP areas for having differing opinions unless its for gross misconduct of some sort
Always thought SAF's treatment of journalists over the years was petty and pathetic, so if we are going down the same road now then its very disappointing,
only threatened weak regimes and people do this sort of thing
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I don't agree with people being banned from VIP areas for having differing opinions unless its for gross misconduct of some sort
Always thought SAF's treatment of journalists over the years was petty and pathetic, so if we are going down the same road now then its very disappointing,
only threatened weak regimes and people do this sort of thing
Correct and this Hodgson bloke, self importance aside, clearly spends much of his own money I suspect on the top end supporter facilities.
Or rather did.
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My argument with Hodgson is simply around him calling it a report when it is at best, an article.
People can agree or disagree about it, but no more importance should be attached to it that Chelt's post, or Leighton's letter. Lots of people have something to say, he is just another one.
True, although he has had the opportunity to observe the Villa soap opera from a position that most us haven't; the Directors box (and, he was quite obviously reasonably close with PF at some point).
The fact that he is drawing the same conclusions as the fans here should be seen as encouraging that our frustrations are not simply those of uninformed, whingeing fans but people who have identified fundamental issues at our club and want to see something done about them.
We certainly shouldn't raise Hodgson on a pedestal but he could become a useful focal point for our concerns to be voiced.
Just my view, anyway.
The real question - away from Dave's editorial role and responsibilities - is what do we do about the growing sense that the Villa is completely in the shit?
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Promotion would not represent a good season. It would merely signify the end of the humiliation and complete ignomy of being in the 2nd Division in the first place.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
Well it may happen with the chairman we have now. Will you criticise him then?
Depends whether a) we go down and b) we were European champions five years earlier.
In reality what would it take for you to criticise this owner in the same way you used to Doug? I may be misunderstanding how you are representing your views but you do come across as very defensive towards Randy Learner and Paul Faulkner.
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In reality what would it take for you to criticise this owner in the same way you used to Doug? I may be misunderstanding how you are representing your views but you do come across as very defensive towards Randy Learner and Paul Faulkner.
As an aside, you'll recall that it took us 20 years to attack Doug with any real venom. He got away with the mid-80's debacle; he survived the brazen lack of opportunity-grasping of the early EPL years; he got away with the 2000 Cup Final shambles and the poor treatment of GT's 2nd coming.
It was only in 2002-03 that the fans started serious opposition - yes, there had been some fans' marches prior to that but nothing massively meaningful.
Lerner has had it easy so far, and the fans' patience has waned far more quickly than in previous eras. Probably because (i) the cost of failure is so much higher than it was; and, (ii) our inadequacies as a club are highlighted much more in the 24-7 media environment that we now have.
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In reality what would it take for you to criticise this owner in the same way you used to Doug? I may be misunderstanding how you are representing your views but you do come across as very defensive towards Randy Learner and Paul Faulkner.
As an aside, you'll recall that it took us 20 years to attack Doug with any real venom. He got away with the mid-80's debacle; he survived the brazen lack of opportunity-grasping of the early EPL years; he got away with the 2000 Cup Final shambles and the poor treatment of GT's 2nd coming.
It was only in 2002-03 that the fans started serious opposition - yes, there had been some fans' marches prior to that but nothing massively meaningful.
Lerner has had it easy so far, and the fans' patience has waned far more quickly than in previous eras. Probably because (i) the cost of failure is so much higher than it was; and, (ii) our inadequacies as a club are highlighted much more in the 24-7 media environment that we now have.
The PR machine, led by the General, was brilliant. I think they built up so much good will it has insulated them from serious opposition.
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Promotion would not represent a good season
Tell that to the thousands who partied after Swindon like it was ..erm...1988. Our promotion didn't represent a good season, it was a great season .
The last few seasons have been shit and the relegation season was dreadful but the promotion season was one of the highlights of my Villa supporting career. It's my opinion, but it was better than the slow death we've been enduring these past few seasons. I saw a team coming together under a proper manager, who didn't make excuses when we played shit and told it like it is, a genuine resurgance in fanatical support, some great wins, some fantastic away days and some geinuine passion without the need for the club to lay on free coaches, Bright Future scarves, silly flags or any other American-style marketing gimmicks.
I'd never want to be in the position again, mind. Have I just contradicted myself?
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As for Dave - he is entitled to take his own editorial in whatever direction he sees fit. He has no brief to represent anyone. He gathers articles randomly as they are sent in, and prints them whether he agrees with them or not, but he doesn't have to change his personal view. With most publications, if people don't like the editorial direction they stop buying it. That is people's right. That's the risk he takes by holding an unpopular view - but it is his choice.
Absolutely. Just because someone is relatively well known, runs a publication and has a better opportunity than most to say what he thinks doesn't automatically mean he has to say what some people want to hear. What do people expect, The Woodhall Report?
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
didnt Utd get relegated 5 years after winning the European cup in '68? That must have taken some doing, considering their relative strength at the time? Agree with your point about Ellis generally though.
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Wow, this kicked off overnight!
My favourite part was the 'promotion = bad season' doublethink.
the season in the 2nd div was one of my favourites for personal reasons. Mainly due to being just old enough to go to home games unaccompanied and some fantastic displays with the likes of platt, mcinally and tony, tony Daley , spinksy and birchy. The Bradford game is right up there for me. You can argue it either way and I do acknowledge why some people would think it was a bad season for us, but I loved it. The all ticket match against Leeds and spanking blues 5-0 in the cup, culminating in going straight back up.
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There were some great away trips that year but we sucked at home for the majority of that season as well. Plus ca change...
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Weighing in to the good season/bad season debate, surely the only parameter that really counts is how you feel walking away from villa park? its not even the results because I can feel ok coming away after a loss as long as ive seen some drama, a couple of goals for us and and some fight. I dont really care if I come away seeing us beat Fulham 2-0 in the league or Rotherham 3-1 in the League cup as long as ive been entertained and got my moneys worth. On the back of that, I agree that had I have been old enough, the promotion season in Div 2 would have no doubt been a good season.
Can any of the currently pro board/management brigade honestly weigh up any of the previous four seasons with the criteria I have outlined and say any of them have been good? I worry that the board etc are now taking advantage of the goodwill and time granted to them during this rebuilding process. It cannot carry on like this
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
didnt Utd get relegated 5 years after winning the European cup in '68? That must have taken some doing, considering their relative strength at the time? Agree with your point about Ellis generally though.
Utd were on the wane much quicker than that. They lost to a Third Division side in the LCSF in 1970.
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Wow, this kicked off overnight!
My favourite part was the 'promotion = bad season' doublethink.
the season in the 2nd div was one of my favourites for personal reasons. Mainly due to being just old enough to go to home games unaccompanied and some fantastic displays with the likes of platt, mcinally and tony, tony Daley , spinksy and birchy. The Bradford game is right up there for me. You can argue it either way and I do acknowledge why some people would think it was a bad season for us, but I loved it. The all ticket match against Leeds and spanking blues 5-0 in the cup, culminating in going straight back up.
The 5-0 was the start of the following season.
The noise v Bradford before and after Platt's wonder header. Andy Gray blasting the 5th v Hull on NYD to go top.
Good times IMO
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Weighing in to the good season/bad season debate, surely the only parameter that really counts is how you feel walking away from villa park? its not even the results because I can feel ok coming away after a loss as long as ive seen some drama, a couple of goals for us and and some fight. I dont really care if I come away seeing us beat Fulham 2-0 in the league or Rotherham 3-1 in the League cup as long as ive been entertained and got my moneys worth. On the back of that, I agree that had I have been old enough, the promotion season in Div 2 would have no doubt been a good season.
Can any of the currently pro board/management brigade honestly weigh up any of the previous four seasons with the criteria I have outlined and say any of them have been good? I worry that the board etc are now taking advantage of the goodwill and time granted to them during this rebuilding process. It cannot carry on like this
Yes in December's 2007 and 2008 we played Arsenal. Lost one, drew one. £100 spent each time including trip to club shop. Entertainment personified.
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Promotion would not represent a good season
Tell that to the thousands who partied after Swindon like it was ..erm...1988. Our promotion didn't represent a good season, it was a great season .
The last few seasons have been shit and the relegation season was dreadful but the promotion season was one of the highlights of my Villa supporting career. It's my opinion, but it was better than the slow death we've been enduring these past few seasons. I saw a team coming together under a proper manager, who didn't make excuses when we played shit and told it like it is, a genuine resurgance in fanatical support, some great wins, some fantastic away days and some geinuine passion without the need for the club to lay on free coaches, Bright Future scarves, silly flags or any other American-style marketing gimmicks.
I'd never want to be in the position again, mind. Have I just contradicted myself?
Yes indeed. Those who throw the towel in after a relegation is liable to miss some great times. We don't want it to happen but, if it does, enjoy what bits of it you can.
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Because it's preferable to being so twisted that you start to say relegation was a success.
I'm not sure anyone's said that though. Relegation = bad season. Promotion = good season. I wouldn't have described that as a giant leap away from conventional football wisdom. Promotion = bad season. Now that has been said and it is a bit puzzling.
Being there in the first place = absolute disaster. In the circumstances worse than anything any other chairman of any club has ever overseen.
didnt Utd get relegated 5 years after winning the European cup in '68? That must have taken some doing, considering their relative strength at the time? Agree with your point about Ellis generally though.
Utd were on the wane much quicker than that. They lost to a Third Division side in the LCSF in 1970.
And that night still rates as one of the all-time best Villa Park occasions ... wow!
The atmosphere at VP is now a pale shadow of what it used to be; not least because the last four+ years have seen such unremitting dross (punctuated by glimmers of light, like the 6-1 last season against Blunderland).
It's the home form for which successive managers should be rightly panned.
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Going back to the title of this thread, why doesn't Kendrick ask the bloody questions? It is after all his job, as a local journo following the club. Surely if he's persistent enough and goes about it in a reasoned and measured way, he should be able to smoke them out and get some answers?
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Going back to the title of this thread, why doesn't Kendrick ask the bloody questions? It is after all his job, as a local journo following the club. Surely if he's persistent enough and goes about it in a reasoned and measured way, he should be able to smoke them out and get some answers?
He'll only have PF to speak to. It seems to me that he has to carry the can for everything. Must be tough facing all the questions while the owner cowers elsewhere.
Edit - probably a bit harsh as Lerner was rarely here when we weren't so bad.
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Going back to the title of this thread, why doesn't Kendrick ask the bloody questions? It is after all his job, as a local journo following the club. Surely if he's persistent enough and goes about it in a reasoned and measured way, he should be able to smoke them out and get some answers?
Oh for the days of real journalists who didn't give a damn why they upset and printed what they liked. Now we have nodding dogs like Kendrick who is terrified of upsetting Faulkner and co.
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So Kendrick, or nobody else in the local media has randy's mobile no. Or email address ? I take your point DC5, but my perception of the situation is that no one wants to upset Lerner, for fear of being blacklisted like bitter pat murphy. Understandable maybe, but if there's questions to be asked and answers to those questions sought, surely the responsibility lies with those people for whom it is their main job? I know the mail (probably often quite rightly) gets a lot of stick for being anti-villa and pro-blues at times, but if they really wanted to demonstrate impartiality ( or even a show of support for the club) then get in there, ask the questions, don't get fobbed and keep going until something gives. To try and put this on the fans is a bit like the kid trying to start a big scrap at school and then running off and hiding in someone's front garden. Come on Matt, get some answers. Do your job.
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The problem is Kendrick knows who he is dealing with and so knows more than likely that asking direct questions isn't going to do any good. What if you saying "go on ask, the questions directly" is a bit like saying "go on, have a go at that brick wall?"
Basically a pointless exercise, no?
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Agreed Robbo.
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Do we think this is causing as much of a stir elsewhere, as it is with a small number of fans on a website?
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And last year when he started asking direct questions during our horror-run he essentially got cut out of press conferences for the next few weeks, with Lambert ignoring him.
I guess we'll see during this weeks conference if he upholds his part of the 'asking questions' bargain.
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Bottom line is Aston Villa football club should be playing and competing at the top level of English football and really we should be playing European football.
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Bottom line is Aston Villa football club should be playing and competing at the top level of English football and really we should be playing European football.
Correct. Yet some seem to have been brainwashed to accept crap.
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Maybe N3B. But they can surely step up the pressure a bit, turn the screw and try to force it more than just effectively saying: we've asked, they've blanked us, over to you Villa fans, we still need to get our daily scraps from the club to fill a few column inches.
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On the other hand if the Villa fans did get more organised then maybe that would give more weight to his questions? Does the responsibility not run both ways?
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Bottom line is Aston Villa football club should be playing and competing at the top level of English football and really we should be playing European football.
Correct. Yet some seem to have been brainwashed to accept crap.
Yep. The "young and hungry" lie is the perfect example of that.
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4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
So the editor of the only independent fanzine can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours?
There is plenty of stuff in the 'zine criticising Lerner, surely if the editor only wanted positive stuff about the board he wouldn't publish articles that criticise them would he?
Write one yourself, I'm sure Dave will publish it as long as it's reasonably well written and interesting.
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On the other hand if the Villa fans did get more organised then maybe that would give more weight to his questions? Does the responsibility not run both ways?
when you say organised, what does that mean? I don't think we're at the point yet where the placards and banners need to come out, or sit ins on the holte steps need to happen, but we do need the local media to scrutinise the leadership and try to up the ante a bit. The annoying thing is that the local media all seem keen to snipe and snicker and take the piss, but unwilling to properly wade in and force the board to front up.
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4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
So the editor of the only independent fanzine can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours?
There is plenty of stuff in the 'zine criticising Lerner, surely if the editor only wanted positive stuff about the board he wouldn't publish articles that criticise them would he?
Write one yourself, I'm sure Dave will publish it as long as it's reasonably well written and interesting.
How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
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Some of the media are more rigorous with their questioning. Pat Murphy may not be to everyone's taste but the interviews I have heard recently with PL have been questioning regarding style of play, form etc
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On the other hand if the Villa fans did get more organised then maybe that would give more weight to his questions? Does the responsibility not run both ways?
when you say organised, what does that mean?
This has been cited as an example:
http://www.spiritofshankly.com/
As for Kendrick 'wading in' hasn't it already been mentioned that he was banned from Villa's press conferences for a time precisely because he 'waded in'?
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Bottom line is Aston Villa football club should be playing and competing at the top level of English football and really we should be playing European football.
Correct. Yet some seem to have been brainwashed to accept crap.
Yer but no but... All we have to do is wait to get ALL the high wage earners off the books then we can start spending again and progress serenely on to the promised land. Once there we can get into a European cup competition, get in with a chance of winning it then send the ladies 3rd team to get knocked out in the quarter final in a glorious attempt to qualify for the champions League...
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As for Hodgson, that meeting when he revealed his first report was fantastic.
The rapturous acclaim that greeted the reading out of it was matched only by the deathly silence and tumbleweed when he asked everyone present to cough up £500 apiece!
"What do we want?"
"Ellis out?"
"When do we want it?"
"NOW!"
"How much you say?"
"Well maybe later then."
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On the other hand if the Villa fans did get more organised then maybe that would give more weight to his questions? Does the responsibility not run both ways?
when you say organised, what does that mean? I don't think we're at the point yet where the placards and banners need to come out, or sit ins on the holte steps need to happen, but we do need the local media to scrutinise the leadership and try to up the ante a bit. The annoying thing is that the local media all seem keen to snipe and snicker and take the piss, but unwilling to properly wade in and force the board to front up.
I think the local press are scared to say anything controversial in case they have the ability to report red hot news about Benteke's favourite colour taken away from them.
Seriously it's pathetic how little the local press have done over the last few years. The Birmingham Mail is truly dying on it's feet.
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4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
So the editor of the only independent fanzine can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours?
There is plenty of stuff in the 'zine criticising Lerner, surely if the editor only wanted positive stuff about the board he wouldn't publish articles that criticise them would he?
Write one yourself, I'm sure Dave will publish it as long as it's reasonably well written and interesting.
How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
There are plenty of things about you that I find bizarre but I don't keep repeating them so let's end this increasingly daft argument shall we?
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4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
So the editor of the only independent fanzine can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours?
There is plenty of stuff in the 'zine criticising Lerner, surely if the editor only wanted positive stuff about the board he wouldn't publish articles that criticise them would he?
Write one yourself, I'm sure Dave will publish it as long as it's reasonably well written and interesting.
How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
So you're not writing an article then?
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Some of the media are more rigorous with their questioning. Pat Murphy may not be to everyone's taste but the interviews I have heard recently with PL have been questioning regarding style of play, form etc
Pat Murphy is the exception to the rule - an old fashioned journo who isn't scared to pose real questions, yet he can be vilified on here for being "bitter". It's pathetic.
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4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
So the editor of the only independent fanzine can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours?
There is plenty of stuff in the 'zine criticising Lerner, surely if the editor only wanted positive stuff about the board he wouldn't publish articles that criticise them would he?
Write one yourself, I'm sure Dave will publish it as long as it's reasonably well written and interesting.
How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
So you're not writing an article then?
Or a "report" even? *winky thing*
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
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4 relegation battles on the trot and yet still barely a flicker of criticism of the chairman by the editor of Villa's only independent fanzine. I find that perplexing.
So the editor of the only independent fanzine can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours?
There is plenty of stuff in the 'zine criticising Lerner, surely if the editor only wanted positive stuff about the board he wouldn't publish articles that criticise them would he?
Write one yourself, I'm sure Dave will publish it as long as it's reasonably well written and interesting.
How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
So you're not writing an article then?
To be fair not everyone is able to write an article fit for publication,
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I'm a Pat Murphy fan.
Is that wrong?
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Some of the media are more rigorous with their questioning. Pat Murphy may not be to everyone's taste but the interviews I have heard recently with PL have been questioning regarding style of play, form etc
When Murphy realised he was going to get diddly squat out of VP he became quite chippy and went to the Olbiun for his fix. He really got on my pip when I heard his squeals of delight as we screwed up and went into the relegation battles of the last two years. Now I hear him interviewing Lambert and find myself shouting "go on - give him some!"
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I'm a Pat Murphy fan.
Is that wrong?
Not wrong but just a bit naughty :)
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To be fair not everyone is able to write an article fit for publication,
Cheltenham Lion gets his stuff printed so surely anyone can?
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To be fair not everyone is able to write an article fit for publication,
Cheltenham Lion gets his stuff printed so surely anyone can?
What are you saying about Cheltenham Lion then? :)
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48 hours after Kendrick's article is put up we are still no further towards any consensus whether to act or not then?
Or even if there really is a problem other than high expectations and a shallow desire to be entertained?
This Sunday evening will be fun whatever the result
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
Are you trying to shit stir?
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48 hours after Kendrick's article is put up we are still no further towards any consensus whether to act or not then?
Or even if there really is a problem other than high expectations and a shallow desire to be entertained?
This Sunday evening will be fun whatever the result
There's no fun in watching Villa struggle like this. It's bloody horrible.
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48 hours after Kendrick's article is put up we are still no further towards any consensus whether to act or not then?
Or even if there really is a problem other than high expectations and a shallow desire to be entertained?
This Sunday evening will be fun whatever the result
Can't come round quick enough.
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48 hours after Kendrick's article is put up we are still no further towards any consensus whether to act or not then?
Or even if there really is a problem other than high expectations and a shallow desire to be entertained?
This Sunday evening will be fun whatever the result
Can't come round quick enough.
We really need a win, a good performance and a point is not even close.
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I'm a Pat Murphy fan.
Is that wrong?
I think he is pretty pro Midlands, for want of a better expression.
Whilst not always agreeing with him, I do enjoy listening to him. I think he got it badly wrong last year with the Darren Bent love in, but I think he does give Lambert a tough time, especially so recently.
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
Are you trying to shit stir?
Not really, just wondering why you seem to think that Dave isn't allowed an opinion if it differs from yours, and why being the editor of a fanzine should mean he has to against the board and anti-the club.
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Calling it a report does seem a bit pompous but I really couldn't care less. The content is spot on in my opinion. It's asking most of the questions I want answered. Also kicking him out if the directors box us petty and a poor show. If you don't want criticism, do a better job.
I think we're at the point where we need to compile all our legitimate concerns and put them to the club to be answered. And to be answered clearly, not in pseudo political corporate bullshit.
- Why did we not properly strengthen the squad in January given how perilous a state it was in?
- Why is a manager whose remit was compelling play overseeing such turgid aimless football?
- Why is said manager being lined up for a new contract when the performance is so bad?
- What is the plan for the next few years?
- I the board content to merely survive each season? What are the aspirations?
- Will the club seek more footballing expertise at board level?
...etc
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
Are you trying to shit stir?
Not really, just wondering why you seem to think that Dave isn't allowed an opinion if it differs from yours, and why being the editor of a fanzine should mean he has to against the board and anti-the club.
I was just asking the question. Last time I looked it wasn't against site rules.
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
Are you trying to shit stir?
Not really, just wondering why you seem to think that Dave isn't allowed an opinion if it differs from yours, and why being the editor of a fanzine should mean he has to against the board and anti-the club.
I may have got this wrong but I think he is asking why Dave seems to be defending, or not criticising, whilst Villa goes down the pan I think that's what he means anyway..
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Some of the media are more rigorous with their questioning. Pat Murphy may not be to everyone's taste but the interviews I have heard recently with PL have been questioning regarding style of play, form etc
Indeed - Lambert was not comfortable regarding the trip to Portugal. Best answer he could come up with was other clubs also do it. Pretty shit answer.
Murphy also gave McAllister a hard time - he was sent out by Houllier to front up who must have lost his bottle - when we were in a bad run about Feb 2011.
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If we go down will anyone still rate Lerner or will they wait for yet another transfer window?
If Lerner does sell the club, will anyone still say he was great when he has gone?
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Calling it a report does seem a bit pompous but I really couldn't care less. The content is spot on in my opinion. It's asking most of the questions I want answered. Also kicking him out if the directors box us petty and a poor show. If you don't want criticism, do a better job.
I think we're at the point where we need to compile all our legitimate concerns and put them to the club to be answered. And to be answered clearly, not in pseudo political corporate bullshit.
- Why did we not properly strengthen the squad in January given how perilous a state it was in?
- Why is a manager whose remit was compelling play overseeing such turgid aimless football?
- Why is said manager being lined up for a new contract when the performance is so bad?
- What is the plan for the next few years?
- I the board content to merely survive each season? What are the aspirations?
- Will the club seek more footballing expertise at board level?
...etc
Yes, this is exactly the kind of list I would want to be presented. I think the encouragement to "get organised" would mean that this list would be presented by a good body of the supporters as opposed to say, an embittered guy who's just been banned from his box at the Villa? No matter how justified his critisisms are in isolation.
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I'm a Pat Murphy fan.
Is that wrong?
I think he is pretty pro Midlands, for want of a better expression.
Whilst not always agreeing with him, I do enjoy listening to him. I think he got it badly wrong last year with the Darren Bent love in, but I think he does give Lambert a tough time, especially so recently.
He also acknowledged a couple of months later that Lambert had won the Bent / Benteke argument
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If we go down will anyone still rate Lerner or will they wait for yet another transfer window?
If Lerner does sell the club, will anyone still say he was great when he has gone?
If Learner sells in the summer will we say he has left the club in a better state than when he took over?
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
Dave - do you mean Randy's refusal to be interviewed by Pat Murphy or Randy's refusal to be interviewed by anyone whatsoever?
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
Dave - do you mean Randy's refusal to be interviewed by Pat Murphy or Randy's refusal to be interviewed by anyone whatsoever?
I think his refusal to be interviewed by anyone (which for the record I don't care about - but I do think someone should be talking) was taken personally more by Pat than anyone else, for whatever reason.
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
Are you trying to shit stir?
Not really, just wondering why you seem to think that Dave isn't allowed an opinion if it differs from yours, and why being the editor of a fanzine should mean he has to against the board and anti-the club.
I may have got this wrong but I think he is asking why Dave seems to be defending, or not criticising, whilst Villa goes down the pan I think that's what he means anyway..
That's exactly what I meant.
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I may have got this wrong but I think he is asking why Dave seems to be defending, or not criticising, whilst Villa goes down the pan I think that's what he means anyway..
So why bring the fact that he is editor of the fanzine into the debate? It has no relevance to Dave's opinion unless you think that the editorial stance of the fanzine should match your own opinions.
It was the word "perplexing" that got me, why should it be "perplexing" that the editor of the fanzine isn't criticising Lerner and the board unless you thing that there is a reason why he isn't doing so beyond the simple fact that that is his opinion?
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
Dave - do you mean Randy's refusal to be interviewed by Pat Murphy or Randy's refusal to be interviewed by anyone whatsoever?
I think his refusal to be interviewed by anyone (which for the record I don't care about - but I do think someone should be talking) was taken personally more by Pat than anyone else, for whatever reason.
It is a crazy situation really. Being such a private person and not offering interviews to the press is at odds with owning a football club, donating money to National Gallery etc. It is perfectly understandable for people to want his views and opinions.
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If we go down will anyone still rate Lerner or will they wait for yet another transfer window?
If Lerner does sell the club, will anyone still say he was great when he has gone?
Is anyone saying he is great?
He's done some good things which will undoubtedly stand the test of time, unfortunately he has messed up the most important part of his job as far as supporters are concerned - the playing side.
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
Dave - do you mean Randy's refusal to be interviewed by Pat Murphy or Randy's refusal to be interviewed by anyone whatsoever?
I think his refusal to be interviewed by anyone (which for the record I don't care about - but I do think someone should be talking) was taken personally more by Pat than anyone else, for whatever reason.
It is a crazy situation really. Being such a private person and not offering interviews to the press is at odds with owning a football club, donating money to National Gallery etc. It is perfectly understandable for people to want his views and opinions.
How many football club owners do give interviews though? Paul Getty gave/gives more than Randy and he's hardly in the media spotlight.
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If we were doing okay no one would give a shit if Lerner didn't talk, it's because we are struggling that fans are demanding "answers".
He is what he is, he isn't going to talk to the press, be honest, you knew that pretty much from the start but no one was complaining when he was rebuilding the pub, getting Acorns on our shirt and people were talking about challenging for the CL in five years time!
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
Dave - do you mean Randy's refusal to be interviewed by Pat Murphy or Randy's refusal to be interviewed by anyone whatsoever?
I think his refusal to be interviewed by anyone (which for the record I don't care about - but I do think someone should be talking) was taken personally more by Pat than anyone else, for whatever reason.
It is a crazy situation really. Being such a private person and not offering interviews to the press is at odds with owning a football club, donating money to National Gallery etc. It is perfectly understandable for people to want his views and opinions.
How many football club owners do give interviews though? Paul Getty gave/gives more than Randy and he's hardly in the media spotlight.
I reckon we have more chance of hearing from Paul Getty now than we do RL.
Whilst it is true that not many chairman are constantly in the media (and those that are are often just as infuriating), I think that when the club appears to be struggling it would be helpful to hear from the owner.
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For what it's worth, I've always respected Pat's talents as a journalist and broadcaster, and like him personally. In particular I defended him when he was perceived as pro-Ellis. I do, though, and I said this from the start including when he asked me about it, think that he let Randy's refusal to be interviewed become personal to the point of vendetta.
Dave - do you mean Randy's refusal to be interviewed by Pat Murphy or Randy's refusal to be interviewed by anyone whatsoever?
I think his refusal to be interviewed by anyone (which for the record I don't care about - but I do think someone should be talking) was taken personally more by Pat than anyone else, for whatever reason.
It is a crazy situation really. Being such a private person and not offering interviews to the press is at odds with owning a football club, donating money to National Gallery etc. It is perfectly understandable for people to want his views and opinions.
How many football club owners do give interviews though? Paul Getty gave/gives more than Randy and he's hardly in the media spotlight.
I reckon we have more chance of hearing from Paul Getty now than we do RL.
Whilst it is true that not many chairman are constantly in the media (and those that are are often just as infuriating), I think that when the club appears to be struggling it would be helpful to hear from the owner.
I'll repeat what I said earlier, and repeatedly. I don't care what the owner says or does but I do think that someone should be talking.
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If we were doing okay no one would give a shit if Lerner didn't talk, it's because we are struggling that fans are demanding "answers".
He is what he is, he isn't going to talk to the press, be honest, you knew that pretty much from the start but no one was complaining when he was rebuilding the pub, getting Acorns on our shirt and people were talking about challenging for the CL in five years time!
I think the point is that no-one at the club comes out and talks with any insight or substance. I don't epxect the payers to necessarily. They have been subject to cliches from an early age.
Lambert - See no evil
Faulkner - Hear no evil
Lerner - Speak no evil
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The Spurs owner doesn't talk, the Bolton owner they owe all the debt to doesn't talk, you hear lots of stuff from 'sources close to Mike Ashley' but nothing from him and there are four Glaziers who keep very quiet too. The Russian and the American at Arsenal don't give too many interviews either and that's just reeling off a few off the top of my head.
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The Spurs owner doesn't talk, the Bolton owner they owe all the debt to doesn't talk, you hear lots of stuff from 'sources close to Mike Ashley' but nothing from him and there are four Glaziers who keep very quiet too. The Russian and the American at Arsenal don't give too many interviews either and that's just reeling off a few off the top of my head.
OK, but as Rob and Dave say, someone should be talking. It doesnt bother me that he isn't chewing the fat on a regular basis, but it obviously does piss some people off, and I can understand why.
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If we were doing okay no one would give a shit if Lerner didn't talk, it's because we are struggling that fans are demanding "answers".
He is what he is, he isn't going to talk to the press, be honest, you knew that pretty much from the start but no one was complaining when he was rebuilding the pub, getting Acorns on our shirt and people were talking about challenging for the CL in five years time!
That's true but when things seemed to be going well Randy was regularly seen at games and Krulak was a regular contributor on here -although he was usually spouting bullshit, he was at least a contact who gave the impression of caring about us. When was the last time Lerner attended a game? Other than Carsen Yeung, how many football clubs are owned by people who never see them play? he'd be fucked if other Villa fans decided to demonstrate the same level of commitment to watching the team play
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The Spurs owner doesn't talk, the Bolton owner they owe all the debt to doesn't talk, you hear lots of stuff from 'sources close to Mike Ashley' but nothing from him and there are four Glaziers who keep very quiet too. The Russian and the American at Arsenal don't give too many interviews either and that's just reeling off a few off the top of my head.
OK, but as Rob and Dave say, someone should be talking. It doesnt bother me that he isn't chewing the fat on a regular basis, but it obviously does piss some people off, and I can understand why.
And all we get fed is bullshit "young and hungry" PR. Meanwhile the club's expectations are dragged down so low that fans are expected to be delighted with Premier League safety every season.
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Paul Faulkner did do an interview with Tom Ross a few weeks back. Whether Tom asked him the right questions is another matter.
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If we go down will anyone still rate Lerner or will they wait for yet another transfer window?
If Lerner does sell the club, will anyone still say he was great when he has gone?
Is anyone saying he is great?
He's done some good things which will undoubtedly stand the test of time, unfortunately he has messed up the most important part of his job as far as supporters are concerned - the playing side.
Maybe not 'great' anymore but continually defended. The football part is a disaster but he has done well with developing things off the field, even if our initial rage of being moved from our seats in the Trinity might have indicated otherwise.
My rants are more out of frustration that he doesn't show himself to be a leader. We end up trying to taunt him to come from cover.
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The blind leading the blind...
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You say that because you agree with him. Would you want equal weight to be given to an opinion that you don't agree with?
Publish and be damned. The club puts out messages tailored to its own agenda, all clubs do; why then not the other side of the story?
Because then you're headed down the road of 'fan spokesman,' giving far too much weight to individuals (particularly on the internet) and all that bollocks.
But he is reflecting the silent majority I would assert. I really don't care if they call him Flash, Saviour of the universe, if he is reflecting the general annoyance and concern at the way the club is being run, then I am supportive. And if anyone wants to put an opposite view then fine also - I just happen to think this would be the minority view at this point. And no, I don't have anything other than anecdotal and general mood music to back it up.
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Paul Faulkner did do an interview with Tom Ross a few weeks back. Whether Tom asked him the right questions is another matter.
It was like being savaged by a sheep
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Paul Faulkner did do an interview with Tom Ross a few weeks back. Whether Tom asked him the right questions is another matter.
It was like being savaged by a sheep
And there's another problem. Unless the 'right' questions are asked and the 'right' answers given it doesn't count.
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I may have got this wrong but I think he is asking why Dave seems to be defending, or not criticising, whilst Villa goes down the pan I think that's what he means anyway..
So why bring the fact that he is editor of the fanzine into the debate? It has no relevance to Dave's opinion unless you think that the editorial stance of the fanzine should match your own opinions.
It was the word "perplexing" that got me, why should it be "perplexing" that the editor of the fanzine isn't criticising Lerner and the board unless you thing that there is a reason why he isn't doing so beyond the simple fact that that is his opinion?
I find it perplexing that anyone would fail to criticise Learners handling of the club.
I personally would like the editor of the only independent fanzine and a man with over 35,000 posts on here to nail his colours to the mast. I would also like them to be the same as mine. But that is Dave's choice to do or not do as he sees fit, he may be the editor and some may want to hear his views, but we live in a democracy so the choice is his.
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If we were doing okay no one would give a shit if Lerner didn't talk, it's because we are struggling that fans are demanding "answers".
He is what he is, he isn't going to talk to the press, be honest, you knew that pretty much from the start but no one was complaining when he was rebuilding the pub, getting Acorns on our shirt and people were talking about challenging for the CL in five years time!
That's true but when things seemed to be going well Randy was regularly seen at games and Krulak was a regular contributor on here -although he was usually spouting bullshit, he was at least a contact who gave the impression of caring about us. When was the last time Lerner attended a game? Other than Carsen Yeung, how many football clubs are owned by people who never see them play? he'd be fucked if other Villa fans decided to demonstrate the same level of commitment to watching the team play
Joe Lewis and Malcolm Glazer for a start and John Henry is a very infrequent visitor to Liverpool. Don't get me wrong, I would like him to speak more and I certainly think he should show his face more often as when things are bad it gives the wrong impression of his commitment in my opinion. But he is far from on his own in his lack of interviews and attending games.
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Paul Faulkner did do an interview with Tom Ross a few weeks back. Whether Tom asked him the right questions is another matter.
It was like being savaged by a sheep
And there's another problem. Unless the 'right' questions are asked and the 'right' answers given it doesn't count.
Maybe PF could start with an unscripted interview with the afforementioned Pat Murphy on the Beeb?
That would assist all parties.
Fans who don't like being spoon fed corporate garbage and can see the state the club and specifically the team on the pitch is actually in. Ok some would object if Murphy was coming over all 'gleeful'
Murphy as he gets the next best thing to the owner and would not turn down the opportunity.
And Paul Faukner it wouldn't do him any harm at all - one way or another it can only do him and the club good.
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If we were doing okay no one would give a shit if Lerner didn't talk, it's because we are struggling that fans are demanding "answers".
He is what he is, he isn't going to talk to the press, be honest, you knew that pretty much from the start but no one was complaining when he was rebuilding the pub, getting Acorns on our shirt and people were talking about challenging for the CL in five years time!
That's true but when things seemed to be going well Randy was regularly seen at games and Krulak was a regular contributor on here -although he was usually spouting bullshit, he was at least a contact who gave the impression of caring about us. When was the last time Lerner attended a game? Other than Carsen Yeung, how many football clubs are owned by people who never see them play? he'd be fucked if other Villa fans decided to demonstrate the same level of commitment to watching the team play
Joe Lewis and Malcolm Glazer for a start and John Henry is a very infrequent visitor to Liverpool.
So it's an American thing then?
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When was the last time Lerner attended a game?
Is this with or without being in disguise?
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When was the last time Lerner attended a game?
Is this with or without being in disguise?
He could well have turned up as Joe Bennett recently.
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How anyone can't have a problem with a chairman who has presided over the decline of the club seems bizarre to me, and I'm entitled to that view. Just like Dave has the right to sit there and say nothing. I'd expect a bit more from the editor of the only independent Villa fanzine out there though.
No wonder Lerner has got away with what he's done to the team over the last 4 years with a fan base as apathetic as ours.
By repeating this I can only assume that you think Dave has some sort of agenda for not slagging off Lerner. You seem to be suggesting that Dave really does hate the board and would love to slag them off but can't for some reason.
Are you trying to insinuate something?
Are you trying to shit stir?
Not really, just wondering why you seem to think that Dave isn't allowed an opinion if it differs from yours, and why being the editor of a fanzine should mean he has to against the board and anti-the club.
I may have got this wrong but I think he is asking why Dave seems to be defending, or not criticising, whilst Villa goes down the pan I think that's what he means anyway..
That's exactly what I meant.
Fuck it, who needs Dave anyway, Jonathon Fear will become the voice of the uprising...spesh after Culverhouse told his dad to fuck off or whatever it was. Does anyone know his username so I can PM him?
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There is absolutely no point anyone from the board trying to speak because whatever they say will be attacked. There isn't anything they can say that would pacify fans when the team are on a poor run of results, any promises of a brighter future will understandably be dismissed with 'don't tell me, show me'. So, in practical terms all we can do is wait and see what happens and whether the hoped for summer spending comes to pass.
I like Pat Murphy too but only when he does the cricket, not sure he's that good on football in general.
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For racist musings, please see VitalVilla.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
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I may have got this wrong but I think he is asking why Dave seems to be defending, or not criticising, whilst Villa goes down the pan I think that's what he means anyway..
So why bring the fact that he is editor of the fanzine into the debate? It has no relevance to Dave's opinion unless you think that the editorial stance of the fanzine should match your own opinions.
It was the word "perplexing" that got me, why should it be "perplexing" that the editor of the fanzine isn't criticising Lerner and the board unless you thing that there is a reason why he isn't doing so beyond the simple fact that that is his opinion?
I find it perplexing that anyone would fail to criticise Learners handling of the club.
I personally would like the editor of the only independent fanzine and a man with over 35,000 posts on here to nail his colours to the mast. I would also like them to be the same as mine. But that is Dave's choice to do or not do as he sees fit, he may be the editor and some may want to hear his views, but we live in a democracy so the choice is his.
I may be being thick here but when Dave said he believes we will spend this summer and will see what that brings is 'nailing colours to the mast'....
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I find it perplexing that anyone would fail to criticise Learners handling of the club.
I personally would like the editor of the only independent fanzine and a man with over 35,000 posts on here to nail his colours to the mast. I would also like them to be the same as mine. But that is Dave's choice to do or not do as he sees fit, he may be the editor and some may want to hear his views, but we live in a democracy so the choice is his.
1. It's easy to criticise the owner - happens all the time on here. And as DC5 asked earlier, will RL be remembered positively after he's gone? - yes, I believe he will because he was what we needed in 2006. The club has moved on in many good ways. Unfortunately, in the most important aspect on the pitch, he's presided over a pretty poor period in our recent history. So, I can and do criticise Lerner; but I'll also acknowledge the good things.
2. I don't get the obsession with wanting one person to 'nail his colours to the mast'- obviously, his colours are claret and blue. But look: one person stepping out to challenge ain't going to make a blind bit of difference - watch the club ignore Mr Hodgson for starters. The club will react to a concerted, large-scale statement of dissatisfaction - whether that is via marches on Trinity Road, wholesale singing / signage at games, mass walk-outs, wholesale reductions in ST sales, etc.
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Can we resurrect VFC? That would be fun.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
But we aren't in the top half and don't seem to aspire to be.
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Can we resurrect VFC? That would be fun.
You may be tongue-in-cheek there, Plum, but there would be no need if more people joined the AV Supporters Trust (www.villatrust.org.uk)
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You can ask as many questions as you like, but Mr Lerner won't answer them as he's a recluse. A great way of treating your paying customers, you know, the lifeblood of the club. Fans, ex-players, media etc. have suggested that the club employs someone with actual football know-how at board level - what do we get? Nothing, just silence........the club's ownership are a complete joke as we tailspin into the Championship.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
But it was not us who scored and that is the point, we cant even scrape a draw against a team as shit and goal shy as Newcastle.
27 goals in 27 games. 28 Points out of a possible 81. 4 points out of the relegation zone.
We are on a run of 9 points out of a possible 39, to guarantee safety we need 12 out of 33...
We need another 4 wins to be safe, we have won just 7 games out of 27 so that means we have now got to win 4 out of 11.
I really think we are going down this year, you can only dodge a bullet for so long.
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
I agree 100%, but the fact we're not performing in the league and haven't been for some time can be laid at Randy's door. His decisions or faith in other peoples decisions have led to us being in this position and that's why people are frustrated.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
Appointed *by him*, I think is a key point.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
This might stand a chance of being something that everyone agrees with.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
Appointed *by him*, I think is a key point.
Not all.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
Appointed *by him*, I think is a key point.
Not all.
Most I feel - though there may be disagreement by whom falls into which category.
But I am not going to go there. I have a meeting with my boss.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
Appointed *by him*, I think is a key point.
Not all.
I presume you mean not all Randy's appointments have been bad, and I agree with that. Rather than meaning Randy hasn't made all the appointments, which I presume he has.
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That, I feel, is the crux of the matter. Randy has been let down by people in whom he placed his trust. Some vindictively, others because they shouldn't have been appointed.
Appointed *by him*, I think is a key point.
Not all.
I presume you mean not all Randy's appointments have been bad, and I agree with that. Rather than meaning Randy hasn't made all the appointments, which I presume he has.
No, I mean they've not all been by him, including the obvious grey area.
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Surely those that weren't directly made by him were made by the people he trusted / employed ?
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
Except that wasn't always true of Doug's tenure was it? I remember us being top of the league or close to it, when the old miser was still being criticised for not giving JG the money for Muzzy Izzet (shudder).
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No, I mean they've not all been by him, including the obvious grey area.
Okay, got you now. It begs the obvious questions which appointments didn't he make, and who did make them?
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The bottom line is something I found out a long time ago; the only thing that matters to the vast majority of supporters is how the team is doing. Randy could live on Mars if we were in the top half of the table. None of this week's outpouring of rage would have happened if it was us who'd scored in stoppage time on Sunday.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
Except that wasn't always true of Doug's tenure was it? I remember us being top of the league or close to it, when the old miser was still being criticised for not giving JG the money for Muzzy Izzet (shudder).
The perception then was that we could have been better. One more push...
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No, I mean they've not all been by him, including the obvious grey area.
Okay, got you now. It begs the obvious questions which appointments didn't he make, and who did make them?
O'Neill is the obvious one, and also a few he inherited.
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O'Neill is the obvious one, and also a few he inherited.
Apologies, I thought we were just talking about managerial appointments but clearly you're also talking about staff appointments more broadly. What I was driving at was that Houllier, McLeish and Lambert were ultimately down to Lerner. Is that fair to say?
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With moyes position becoming more precarious I am hoping that maybe his possible availability in the summer could tempt randy to fire lambert in the summer if we do manage to avoid relegation .
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With moyes position becoming more precarious I am hoping that maybe his possible availability in the summer could tempt randy to fire lambert in the summer if we do manage to avoid relegation .
I reckon Moyes will be given at least the summer and first couple of months of next season unless they really bomb for the rest of the season. He is Fergie's pick and Fergie still wields a lot of influence though that will diminish over time.
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O'Neill is the obvious one, and also a few he inherited.
Apologies, I thought we were just talking about managerial appointments but clearly you're also talking about staff appointments more broadly. What I was driving at was that Houllier, McLeish and Lambert were ultimately down to Lerner. Is that fair to say?
Definitely. One unfortunate, one inexplicable and one I hope will ultimately prove inspired.
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With moyes position becoming more precarious I am hoping that maybe his possible availability in the summer could tempt randy to fire lambert in the summer if we do manage to avoid relegation .
I reckon Moyes will be given at least the summer and first couple of months of next season unless they really bomb for the rest of the season. He is Fergie's pick and Fergie still wields a lot of influence though that will diminish over time.
That's my take. Moyes will be given the opportunity to rebuild Man Utd over the Summer.
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... While Lambert, I guess, will be give the opportunity to bring in more players of the ilk of Benteke/Okore.
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O'Neill is the obvious one, and also a few he inherited.
Apologies, I thought we were just talking about managerial appointments but clearly you're also talking about staff appointments more broadly. What I was driving at was that Houllier, McLeish and Lambert were ultimately down to Lerner. Is that fair to say?
Definitely. One unfortunate, one inexplicable and one I hope will ultimately prove inspired.
I take it you're classing Houllier as unfortunate?
In many ways it was, but lots on here raised concerns about his health when he got the job and given his age medical history, it could be argued that Randy & Co should have taken it into account more when making the choice.
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Wasn't he given the all clear by the doctors or something like that at the time of appointment?
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O'Neill is the obvious one, and also a few he inherited.
Apologies, I thought we were just talking about managerial appointments but clearly you're also talking about staff appointments more broadly. What I was driving at was that Houllier, McLeish and Lambert were ultimately down to Lerner. Is that fair to say?
Definitely. One unfortunate, one inexplicable and one I hope will ultimately prove inspired.
I take it you're classing Houllier as unfortunate?
In many ways it was, but lots on here raised concerns about his health when he got the job and given his age medical history, it could be argued that Randy & Co should have taken it into account more when making the choice.
Some criticised the signing of an injury-prone central defender in 1989. I also think - with the usual caveat of this being no more than a guess - that Houllier proved himself in the manner of his leaving to be a lot less of a gentleman than the board believed him to be. And so, after being stitched up twice in ten months they decided to go with someone whose integrity and decency were beyond question. The rest is history.
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Wasn't he given the all clear by the doctors or something like that at the time of appointment?
Ironically had we been a mid table non entity during that season it would have been good for Houllier's health. No stress on his ticker at either end of the table.
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
As I mentioned several times in the last few days, we're the sixth biggest net spender over the last five years. It's what we do with the money that really matters. Ask Everton and Spurs, they're both in the black with their 5 year net spend.
Those figures quoted can't be true though in that article, didn't it say £186m in the last 5 seasons? If you got back and take a look £43m Lambert, £18m ish Mcleish, £40m ish Houliier. So theres no way in MON's last season with us he spent £86m in transfer fee's.
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
As I mentioned several times in the last few days, we're the sixth biggest net spender over the last five years. It's what we do with the money that really matters. Ask Everton and Spurs, they're both in the black with their 5 year net spend.
Those figures quoted can't be true though in that article, didn't it say £186m in the last 5 seasons? If you got back and take a look £43m Lambert, £18m ish Mcleish, £40m ish Houliier. So theres no way in MON's last season with us he spent £86m in transfer fee's.
We've also received a fair bit that on sales during that period. I would be astonished if our NET spend was anythink like £186m.
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Some criticised the signing of an injury-prone central defender in 1989.
I'm not sure you're comparing like with like there. McGrath was a gamble worth taking because if we could keep him fit we were getting a genuinely world-class defender at much less than the going rate. Houllier was already 10 years past his best when we appointed him. Not only were we taking a huge gamble on his health, we were also taking a huge gamble on him still having the talent / ability / desire that he had had 10 years before.
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Some criticised the signing of an injury-prone central defender in 1989.
I'm not sure you're comparing like with like there. McGrath was a gamble worth taking because if we could keep him fit we were getting a genuinely world-class defender at much less than the going rate. Houllier was already 10 years past his best when we appointed him. Not only were we taking a huge gamble on his health, we were also taking a huge gamble on him still having the talent / ability / desire that he had had 10 years before.
not too sure about the McGrath thing Hilts, as he was slightly injury prone due to his knees and I am sure I read somewhere that Ferguson wanted the insurance money for Paul....
was it £450.000 the Villa paid at the time ?
a considerable gamble.....in hindsight a fucking bargain !
UTV
The Doc
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I doubt if he's doing it to get a few Facebook likes. He sounds like a passionate long time Villa fan, just like every other Villa fan I guess. Perhaps he's just fed up with the way Lerner and co are running the club?
The club has been in decline for 4 years now and doesn't seem to be any sign of it getting any better. What's your view on it?
I think money will be spent in the summer and it'll be interesting to see how opinions will change again once it is.
As I mentioned several times in the last few days, we're the sixth biggest net spender over the last five years. It's what we do with the money that really matters. Ask Everton and Spurs, they're both in the black with their 5 year net spend.
Those figures quoted can't be true though in that article, didn't it say £186m in the last 5 seasons? If you got back and take a look £43m Lambert, £18m ish Mcleish, £40m ish Houliier. So theres no way in MON's last season with us he spent £86m in transfer fee's.
We've also received a fair bit that on sales during that period. I would be astonished if our NET spend was anythink like £186m.
With all reason, Chris:
5 Year Numbers - Ranked 6th largest Nett Spenders
Total Spend 179,600,000
Total Sales 93,600,000
Nett Spend 86,000,000
Av Annual 17,200,000
Almost the same as 5th place Liverpool (17,880,000) and a mile ahead of 7th place (11, 800,000). I'm pretty sure those numbers don't include the 15m we've paid out in compensation to managers and their respective previous clubs.
Pretty hard to accuse Lerner of not investing, he's had to cough up a lot of money over the last 5 years. On that issue I have not problems with him, he's been more than decent. The only issue is with the manager he appoints. McCleish was his choice having been a long term admirer of the man and the utter stupidity of offering Lambert an extended contract when he should at least be preparing his managerial contingency plan.
Lerner may be willing to put his money where his mouth is but his pigheadedness regarding managers is his greatest weakness. I don't blame Faulkner who apart from doing a great job behind the scenes at Villa Park, won't have much sway on managerial appointments. Unfortunately, I get the feeling Lerner gives too much importance to the relationship he has with his managers and values their character far higher than their football managerial ability.
Hopefully next time he'll find the right balance.
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not too sure about the McGrath thing Hilts, as he was slightly injury prone due to his knees and I am sure I read somewhere that Ferguson wanted the insurance money for Paul....
was it £450.000 the Villa paid at the time ?
a considerable gamble.....in hindsight a fucking bargain !
UTV
The Doc
That's exactly my point Doc: with McGrath the risk vs reward was in our favour. With Houllier I'm not so sure that it was.
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Then you look at the player Houllier apparently had lined up and wonder what if...
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Then you look at the player Houllier apparently had lined up and wonder what if...
Yep, those figures clearly reflect the muddled thinking of recent times and why another change would be so risky. I would fear for us if we had to go back to the drawing board again.
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Then you look at the player Houllier apparently had lined up and wonder what if...
Yep, those figures clearly reflect the muddled thinking of recent times and why another change would be so risky. I would fear for us if we had to go back to the drawing board again.
I really don't fear us having to go back to the drawing board and starting from scratch. A decent manager could certainly get more out of our current squad and allowed to make a few key signings in the summer but I don't think for one second we need an overhaul. I do fear us having another season of Lambert in charge, even given funds, I just see him very much like MON, tactically inept, extremely limited and very hard to remove in the future. Keeping him after this season just seems so pointless.
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Houillier wanted to buy The LB who went to QPR and was an absolute waste of money, yes Cabaye would have been a good buy, but overall GH was not, and probably wouldn't have been a success , McLeish was probably the most incomprehensible appointment of all time, and PL, after initially looking the right appointment, is fast showing he is way out of his depth.
RL needs help, the one thing about HHs report is the reflection on whether or not RL has enough football experience on the board, and the answer has to be no.
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RL needs help, the one thing about HHs report is the reflection on whether or not RL has enough football experience on the board, and the answer has to be no.
I don't think it's even open to debate.
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I knew Lerner was clueless about football when he appointed the manager who had just relegated our local rivals. I still can't believe he actually did that.
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I have been accused of being a cynic and I plead guilty as charged but I wonder if the presence of a much needed football man of stature and experience in the Villa boardroom has not happened because he might erode the power of those already there and they conspire against change.
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I have been accused of being a cynic and I plead guilty as charged but I wonder if the presence of a much needed football man of stature and experience in the Villa boardroom has not happened because he might erode the power of those already there and they conspire against change.
You cynic
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O'Neill is the obvious one, and also a few he inherited.
Apologies, I thought we were just talking about managerial appointments but clearly you're also talking about staff appointments more broadly. What I was driving at was that Houllier, McLeish and Lambert were ultimately down to Lerner. Is that fair to say?
Definitely. One unfortunate, one inexplicable and one I hope will ultimately prove inspired.
I take it you're classing Houllier as unfortunate?
In many ways it was, but lots on here raised concerns about his health when he got the job and given his age medical history, it could be argued that Randy & Co should have taken it into account more when making the choice.
It's not like Houllier came here straight from a hospital discharge.
He'd worked for several years before coming here, including managing Lyon.
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Two years at Lyon and he needed a rest - "a year off". His health issues were well known. For example he went crackers for a brief time and signed Baros off us in exchange for Carew.
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Two years at Lyon and he needed a rest - "a year off". His health issues were well known. For example he went crackers for a brief time and signed Baros off us in exchange for Carew.
That was a good bit of business.
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It's harsh to say there's no football experience on the board. Most have been here 8 years or so now. They're not trying to fail, they really do mean well, it just ain't happening. Mind you Doug meant well (if you gloss over the Saunders & Barton shame) and wanted us to do well.
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It's not like Houllier came here straight from a hospital discharge.
He'd worked for several years before coming here, including managing Lyon.
And yet within seven months of taking charge here hospital is exactly where he ended up.
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Two years at Lyon and he needed a rest - "a year off". His health issues were well known. For example he went crackers for a brief time and signed Baros off us in exchange for Carew.
That was a good bit of business.
Blinding for us yes.
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Typo ?
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I agree Ian that there is football experience in the boardroom but what we need is football savvy, wisdom, nous and that takes a lifetime of immersion in the game. When SGT came he pulled no punches. He said "I don't care about what you have done in the past it is what you are going to do in the future I am concerned with". I can only speak for myself but I want somebody in the Villa boardroom I can look up to, somebody to do some straight talking about where we are, what is going on and what happens next. I really am tired of the secrecy and silence around Villa. I want genuine communication from somebody in the game who is trusted and respected. It does not have to be a DOF just a father figure we can look up to.
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Two years at Lyon and he needed a rest - "a year off". His health issues were well known. For example he went crackers for a brief time and signed Baros off us in exchange for Carew.
That was a good bit of business.
Blinding for us yes.
Didn't Baros do well for Lyon, thus making it good business for them as well?
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Two years at Lyon and he needed a rest - "a year off". His health issues were well known. For example he went crackers for a brief time and signed Baros off us in exchange for Carew.
That was a good bit of business.
Didn't Baros do well for Lyon, thus making it good business for them as well?
Blinding for us yes.
Nope, 7 league goals according to Wiki.
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Oh right. I seem to remember an interview with Baros when he felt he could be slightly bitchy about Villa as he was doing alright since he left. Maybe I'm thinking of a different player.
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It's harsh to say there's no football experience on the board. Most have been here 8 years or so now. They're not trying to fail, they really do mean well, it just ain't happening. Mind you Doug meant well (if you gloss over the Saunders & Barton shame) and wanted us to do well.
I cant question their good intentions mate but what football clout is there really?
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I agree Ian that there is football experience in the boardroom but what we need is football savvy, wisdom, nous and that takes a lifetime of immersion in the game. When SGT came he pulled no punches. He said "I don't care about what you have done in the past it is what you are going to do in the future I am concerned with". I can only speak for myself but I want somebody in the Villa boardroom I can look up to, somebody to do some straight talking about where we are, what is going on and what happens next. I really am tired of the secrecy and silence around Villa. I want genuine communication from somebody in the game who is trusted and respected. It does not have to be a DOF just a father figure we can look up to.
Is there even a quorum in the boardroom? Serious question, by the way.
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The board:
Randy - Well meaning but before Villa, no experience in running a football club. Passion, yes. Nous? I don't think so. He doesn't have to have it though, just employ people who do.
Faulkner - A commercial businessman and prior to Villa, no experience. He may be learning the ropes but that's really about it. And there's no guarantee and very little evidence that the lessons will be or are being learned
Russell - I don't know much about him but from what I can tell he's another finance guy. No football experience.
General Krulak - Even if he was still around, again, no experience of football.
There really is at least one and preferably two gaping holes for football people in there. I can't really think of any business where you would have a board where not member is a specialist in the market it does business in.
As I see it, the club need to come with a road map to put us back where we belong, then appoint some people to deliver it. Rather than rely on managers who for one reason or another may be gone a year later.
If the Trust can help them decide on this through consultation, great. I don't expect that will ever be a possibility, still...
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I agree Ian that there is football experience in the boardroom but what we need is football savvy, wisdom, nous and that takes a lifetime of immersion in the game. When SGT came he pulled no punches. He said "I don't care about what you have done in the past it is what you are going to do in the future I am concerned with". I can only speak for myself but I want somebody in the Villa boardroom I can look up to, somebody to do some straight talking about where we are, what is going on and what happens next. I really am tired of the secrecy and silence around Villa. I want genuine communication from somebody in the game who is trusted and respected. It does not have to be a DOF just a father figure we can look up to.
Is there even a quorum in the boardroom? Serious question, by the way.
I very much doubt it. I doubt that on any given month you have more than just Faulkner within a thousand miles of B6.
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I agree Ian that there is football experience in the boardroom but what we need is football savvy, wisdom, nous and that takes a lifetime of immersion in the game. When SGT came he pulled no punches. He said "I don't care about what you have done in the past it is what you are going to do in the future I am concerned with". I can only speak for myself but I want somebody in the Villa boardroom I can look up to, somebody to do some straight talking about where we are, what is going on and what happens next. I really am tired of the secrecy and silence around Villa. I want genuine communication from somebody in the game who is trusted and respected. It does not have to be a DOF just a father figure we can look up to.
Is there even a quorum in the boardroom? Serious question, by the way.
I very much doubt it. I doubt that on any given month you have more than just Faulkner within a thousand miles of B6.
What a dire situation. I think PF has been left to carry the can.
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It's not like Houllier came here straight from a hospital discharge.
He'd worked for several years before coming here, including managing Lyon.
And yet within seven months of taking charge here hospital is exactly where he ended up.
It's not them, it's us.
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So we want someone from the club to tell us whats going on, the answers we want and the truth.
"What are the clubs ambitions"
"Well we are looking to go into the Championship as we have no ambitions and there are a few grounds that Randy hasn't been to"
"Have we cut back the wage bill"
"Not enough yet, we are still on the lookout for players who want to pay the club for playing for Aston Villa , then we will be happy"
"Are you happy with the performance of the manager"
"Tricky one that, Randy has the letter from Matt Busby telling us what a great kid at school wee Lambo was, but he still manages to win the odd game here and there, you know like Man City, Southampton, we didn't see that coming, so maybe he is not taking us as fast as we would like, you know we have worked hard for the last 4 years to get in this position, he may just be slowing down the regression a bit, so we may have to look at other options, you know Holloway just might come to this small time club"
Is that we want to hear, all I want to hear from the club is Lambert telling it like it is, when we are bad, tell us he is not happy and intends to do something about it, dont just try to kid us that we were great when we can obviously see we were not, no need to slag individuals, but when as a team we do not perform address the issues with some degree of honesty, dont take us for mugs.
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Should have added to the last post, anything else coming out of the club will just be corporate bull shit, you can ask as many difficult questions as you like, it does not mean the club officials will answer them.
What has surprised me is that nothing has come out this week or indeed been asked by us the supporters, what happened after the Newcastle game, Vlarrs tweet and Westwoods interview hinted at a bust up after the game, but nothing ore heard or asked!!
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Should have added to the last post, anything else coming out of the club will just be corporate bull shit, you can ask as many difficult questions as you like, it does not mean the club officials will answer them.
What has surprised me is that nothing has come out this week or indeed been asked by us the supporters, what happened after the Newcastle game, Vlarrs tweet and Westwoods interview hinted at a bust up after the game, but nothing ore heard or asked!!
Because all is well now, supposedly, according to Ron Vlaar (he has to say this).
"First off, I want to tell you that the mood in camp at Bodymoor Heath is very positive ahead of our remaining 11 games.
"We lie in 13th, which is four points above the bottom three but, importantly, three points off 10th - and it's fair to say we're looking up rather than down."
By the way, I have a lot of time for Ron Vlaar. He seems to speak from the heart.
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Ron is a top man, but it sounds like Faulkner's holding a Luger to his head there. Somebody run this by the folks at Bletchley for hidden messages.
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Ron is a top man, but it sounds like Faulkner's holding a Luger to his head there. Somebody run this by the folks at Bletchley for hidden messages.
He's also stating the facts. What's the point mentally of looking down when it is far more positive to look up? How would we all have felt if he'd said, "yeh, we've lost 3 straight, and the mood around the place is terrible. Everyone is scared to death of the possibility of relegation".
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Toronto fair enough, but that was the point I was making earlier on, how about "We are not happy with where we are, we know the last 3 games hav'nt been good enough but we are working hard to get it right".
Do not expect them to slate the club, but just more corporate bull, lets see a bit of wake up and smell the coffee matter of fact.
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I know we're all unhappy with the clubs state at the minute but sometimes I wonder how much influence an owner has with the playing side of things. Surely it's not Lerners place to get involved with the dressing room and yet so many seem to find him directly responsible for the teams results.
McLeish was a mistake. We knew that from the start and perhaps by the time our feelings were known to Lerner he had already made a commitment he couldn't go back on, but let's be fair, after 12 months he acknowledged his error and acted accordingly.
Lets not also forget his next move was to appoint a man the MAJORITY of us wanted and he then backed that man in the transfer market with 20 million pounds a season.
What more would you want an owner to do? Using hindsight as a stick to beat him with strikes me as a little unfair. Ask yourself what you could have done differently were YOU the owner. I doubt he's happy with the situation, whether he states so publicly or not.
Now on the other hand....if something plainly isn't working, and the man in command doesn't act....I think it's fair to say criticism is absolutely justifiable.
One final point though.
I am absolutely convinced it was the faith of the Villa Park crowd that kept us up last year. If we'd have turned on the players and manager with ten games to go we'd have been relegated.
That considered, is this really the right time to be preparing reports, writing articles, holding inquests or lining up firing squads....
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(Lerner's) next move was to appoint a man the MAJORITY of us wanted and he then backed that man in the transfer market with 20 million pounds a season.
Good thing to take note of before having a go at Lerner.
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Toronto fair enough, but that was the point I was making earlier on, how about "We are not happy with where we are, we know the last 3 games hav'nt been good enough but we are working hard to get it right".
Do not expect them to slate the club, but just more corporate bull, lets see a bit of wake up and smell the coffee matter of fact.
There's nothing corporate about it. He's the captain of the football club answering questions on the official website. What did you expect him to say? And even if off the record he's a little concerned, there's no point as an athlete developing that frame of mind and letting it influence not only his own game but those who is leading.
This is exactly what I've been saying and Chris recently. No matter what an official employee of the club says, even if it is true and as close to "from the heart" as possible, some people are simply going to watch it through cynical eyes. For that reason I don't care what is said, I just care about the what I see. If the team is doing well, almost everything else is irrelevant.
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(Lerner's) next move was to appoint a man the MAJORITY of us wanted and he then backed that man in the transfer market with 20 million pounds a season.
Good thing to take note of before having a go at Lerner.
Although Lerner has made mistakes its lambert who I blame more for the state of the team - he has spent over £40m on players and we have a very poor team indeed .
He carries the can for coaching, tactics, motivation , etc and I think the club would be better off without him .
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I know we're all unhappy with the clubs state at the minute but sometimes I wonder how much influence an owner has with the playing side of things. Surely it's not Lerners place to get involved with the dressing room and yet so many seem to find him directly responsible for the teams results.
McLeish was a mistake. We knew that from the start and perhaps by the time our feelings were known to Lerner he had already made a commitment he couldn't go back on, but let's be fair, after 12 months he acknowledged his error and acted accordingly.
Lets not also forget his next move was to appoint a man the MAJORITY of us wanted and he then backed that man in the transfer market with 20 million pounds a season.
I'm more or less agreed, but I think Lerner and co needed to either give him more money to spend (given the size of the rebuilding job he was required to do) or set more lenient budgets so he could phase out the highly paid players more gradually.
One final point though.
I am absolutely convinced it was the faith of the Villa Park crowd that kept us up last year. If we'd have turned on the players and manager with ten games to go we'd have been relegated.
That considered, is this really the right time to be preparing reports, writing articles, holding inquests or lining up firing squads....
I'm 100% agreed with you on this one though. If the Norwich game does turn out to be 'Lambert's Bolton' as some are predicting, I can't see how thats going to help matters.
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I know we're all unhappy with the clubs state at the minute but sometimes I wonder how much influence an owner has with the playing side of things. Surely it's not Lerners place to get involved with the dressing room and yet so many seem to find him directly responsible for the teams results.
McLeish was a mistake. We knew that from the start and perhaps by the time our feelings were known to Lerner he had already made a commitment he couldn't go back on, but let's be fair, after 12 months he acknowledged his error and acted accordingly.
Lets not also forget his next move was to appoint a man the MAJORITY of us wanted and he then backed that man in the transfer market with 20 million pounds a season.
I'm more or less agreed, but I think Lerner and co needed to either give him more money to spend (given the size of the rebuilding job he was required to do) or set more lenient budgets so he could phase out the highly paid players more gradually.
On that last point, I don't see Lerner dictating which players should be kept or sold. That would have been Lambert's call and his alone.
Regarding additional funds, apart from the 20m, I'd imagine Lerner was willing to give Lambert all the additional money from player sales. The fact that he chose to let them rot in the 'bomb squad' turned out to be a very expensive exercise both for the squad and the club.
Overall, Lambert has been given a free reign over the footballing side of the club and as Mr Woo points out, he has been supported by Randy Lerner but as Eastie says Lambert "carries the can for coaching, tactics, motivation , etc and I think the club would be better off without him".
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Should have added to the last post, anything else coming out of the club will just be corporate bull shit, you can ask as many difficult questions as you like, it does not mean the club officials will answer them.
What has surprised me is that nothing has come out this week or indeed been asked by us the supporters, what happened after the Newcastle game, Vlarrs tweet and Westwoods interview hinted at a bust up after the game, but nothing ore heard or asked!!
Because all is well now, supposedly, according to Ron Vlaar (he has to say this).
"First off, I want to tell you that the mood in camp at Bodymoor Heath is very positive ahead of our remaining 11 games.
"We lie in 13th, which is four points above the bottom three but, importantly, three points off 10th - and it's fair to say we're looking up rather than down."
By the way, I have a lot of time for Ron Vlaar. He seems to speak from the heart.
Wish he could talk from the heart to his team mates and make them follow his good example more often.
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(Lerner's) next move was to appoint a man the MAJORITY of us wanted and he then backed that man in the transfer market with 20 million pounds a season.
Good thing to take note of before having a go at Lerner.
Although Lerner has made mistakes its lambert who I blame more for the state of the team - he has spent over £40m on players and we have a very poor team indeed .
He carries the can for coaching, tactics, motivation , etc and I think the club would be better off without him .
Yes that's where I am too. I've been going since 78 and this really is an awful villa squad and management team and playing style. Really bad.
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As usual, I agree with Brian.
Some folk here though are buddybuddy with our CEO, and that's not such a great thing if you want change. Who's going to post on here that PF must go etc etc etc then chat to him in the bar after work?
Forgive me if I am wrong, Ian, but surely it wasn't too long ago you were taking every opportunity to get "buddybuddy" with the leadership yourself.
Just as someone else in the recent posts of this thread was, too.
Short memories.
Reading this thread for the first time as not really had time or chance all week, and this is just about the most hypocritical post I have witnessed on this site.
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I don't think PF should go, I just question his credentials as CEO and I'll tell him that over any number of beers. I'll even buy some of them.
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I agree Ian that there is football experience in the boardroom but what we need is football savvy, wisdom, nous and that takes a lifetime of immersion in the game. When SGT came he pulled no punches. He said "I don't care about what you have done in the past it is what you are going to do in the future I am concerned with". I can only speak for myself but I want somebody in the Villa boardroom I can look up to, somebody to do some straight talking about where we are, what is going on and what happens next. I really am tired of the secrecy and silence around Villa. I want genuine communication from somebody in the game who is trusted and respected. It does not have to be a DOF just a father figure we can look up to.
What we need is a football person that the media respect. Somebody that could stand up to them an give as good as he gets. Somebody with integrity and a calm manner that could talk and people would listen. In other words, somebody that was not just in it for himself and growing is own ego.
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Charlie Aitken.
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Charlie Aitken.
Wasn't he banned by the club?
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What is Faulkner's job as Chief Exec? I thought it was to provide the funds to buy players identified by the manager within the parameters set by the club, negotiate contracts of new and existing players and increase commercial revenue. He's done most of that quite well. He doesn't get on the pitch and play, and he doesn't pick the team. I agree he should be criticized when a managerial appointment goes wrong if indeed like McLeish is what wrong to begin with. As for Lambert he got the manager most wanted and he's supported him as best as possible.
I do hope that if we can turn in around he gets the plaudits to go along with the criticism, but who am I kidding?
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Charlie Aitken.
I think it would need to be closer to the modern game.
Gordon Cowans
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I agree Ian that there is football experience in the boardroom but what we need is football savvy, wisdom, nous and that takes a lifetime of immersion in the game. When SGT came he pulled no punches. He said "I don't care about what you have done in the past it is what you are going to do in the future I am concerned with". I can only speak for myself but I want somebody in the Villa boardroom I can look up to, somebody to do some straight talking about where we are, what is going on and what happens next. I really am tired of the secrecy and silence around Villa. I want genuine communication from somebody in the game who is trusted and respected. It does not have to be a DOF just a father figure we can look up to.
What we need is a football person that the media respect. Somebody that could stand up to them an give as good as he gets. Somebody with integrity and a calm manner that could talk and people would listen. In other words, somebody that was not just in it for himself and growing is own ego.
I agree, although Gordon Cowans lacks the necessary gravitas.
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Charlie Aitken.
Wasn't he banned by the club?
First I heard of that. For what? Serious question.
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Charlie Aitken.
Wasn't he banned by the club?
First I heard of that. For what? Serious question.
He allegedly fell out with Doug but that's all.
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Thanks Dave, surely if he was banned that ban is now lifted.
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Kendrick was at Halesowen today.
He didn't look particularly inquisitive. Probably just wanted to see a good home performance.
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still not received reply or even acknowledgment from Paul Faulkner to my email of
last weekend ..............wasn't abusive in any way but there again didn't offer any praise
to manner in which the club was being managed
guess the club might be thinking of me as a grumpy old customer ?
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guess the club might be thinking of me as a grumpy old customer ?
[/quote]
I think that describes many of us. I'm getting grumpier with every match.
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I agree, although Gordon Cowans lacks the necessary gravitas.
John Gregory? Martin Laursen?
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I agree, although Gordon Cowans lacks the necessary gravitas.
John Gregory? Martin Laursen?
Brian Little?
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It is strange when you look at the likes of King Kenny at Liverpool, several faces at Old Trafford and so on, that we just don't have those people in and around the club in major roles, yet you would think there would be a few faces from the European cup era or the late 70's that would be around the club in more official capacities.
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It is strange when you look at the likes of King Kenny at Liverpool, several faces at Old Trafford and so on, that we just don't have those people in and around the club in major roles, yet you would think there would be a few faces from the European cup era or the late 70's that would be around the club in more official capacities.
Did Doug Ellis not drive them away? Good shout though. Cowans seems to be the only one still around.
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It is strange when you look at the likes of King Kenny at Liverpool, several faces at Old Trafford and so on, that we just don't have those people in and around the club in major roles, yet you would think there would be a few faces from the European cup era or the late 70's that would be around the club in more official capacities.
Did Doug Ellis not drive them away? Good shout though. Cowans seems to be the only one still around.
Apart from managers and coaching staff none of them have ever worked for the club in any full-time capacity (Gary Shaw did some youth coaching and I think he still does the press stuff). It goes back to what I've said time and again; we need a presidential figure.
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I really don't see the urgent need for some figurehead. It's as they say over here 'flores' - a nice floral decoration but doesn't really serve any real purpose. Yes, it would be nice but more than anything we need somebody that with experience that can guide the board regarding managerial appointments and understanding what is the going rate on wages.
I hope Paul Faulkner is getting the experience and he surely is learning on the job but right now we should be looking at a DoF. Randy Lerner needs his somebody to bounce his ideas off that's that scared to say 'no'.
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Joe Kinnear
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That's right up there with Tony Mowbray for teams that pass the ball.
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I really don't see the urgent need for some figurehead. It's as they say over here 'flores' - a nice floral decoration but doesn't really serve any real purpose. Yes, it would be nice but more than anything we need somebody that with experience that can guide the board regarding managerial appointments and understanding what is the going rate on wages.
I hope Paul Faulkner is getting the experience and he surely is learning on the job but right now we should be looking at a DoF. Randy Lerner needs his somebody to bounce his ideas off that's that scared to say 'no'.
I agree on the DOF role. Indeed I would have understood GED as DOF and Gary Mac continuing the first team coaching role after the illness as they seemed to at least have a plan and played well during the run in. The about face on style and type of manager that summer still seems the most baffling thing Lerner has done as chairman and the thought process is one I don't think I will ever understand.
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Gary Mac did very well in that final run in. I was disappointed he left when GH did. Wasnt the rumour that the players hated him because he drilled them so much?
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It could be taken a bit more seriously if he hadn't just had a falling out with the board.
He was saying this stuff way before they booted him out of the directors.
It's exactly this stuff that lead to the 'fall out' Howard is a good guy and loves the Villa (just like all of us) he's spot on IMO The only reason Faulkner is CEO is he's an out and out Yes man. Completely unqualified for the rigours of an EPL CEO. There's a reason the two other CEO's left. RL surrounds himself with pure yes men. Part of the reason were in this mess.
For what it's worth I think Lerner wants out and as soon as there is a buyer he'll be off like a shot. I'm pretty sure he won't be to out of pocket either. He's made a right hash if it IMO
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What about getting John Gregory back? His time as manager didn't finish brilliantly for me but he certainly came across well in the media and is Villa through and through.
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What about getting John Gregory back? His time as manager didn't finish brilliantly for me but he certainly came across well in the media and is Villa through and through.
I like John Gregory, but he's too much of a loud, brash character to do a role like that. Way too opinionated.
If we are going to have one (and I am not convinced, to be honest), then in my opinion it should be someone highly recognisable, and with a gravitas and dignity which reflects the club.
I would be more likely to go for someone like Mervyn King (if he had time) or other non-football person than a former player or manager.
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Pauline McLynn would get my vote.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
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Toronto fair enough, but that was the point I was making earlier on, how about "We are not happy with where we are, we know the last 3 games hav'nt been good enough but we are working hard to get it right".
Do not expect them to slate the club, but just more corporate bull, lets see a bit of wake up and smell the coffee matter of fact.
There's nothing corporate about it. He's the captain of the football club answering questions on the official website. What did you expect him to say? And even if off the record he's a little concerned, there's no point as an athlete developing that frame of mind and letting it influence not only his own game but those who is leading.
This is exactly what I've been saying and Chris recently. No matter what an official employee of the club says, even if it is true and as close to "from the heart" as possible, some people are simply going to watch it through cynical eyes. For that reason I don't care what is said, I just care about the what I see. If the team is doing well, almost everything else is irrelevant.
Oh please come on, it's totally corporate, players of clubs, especially captains, have to toe the the managerial and corporate line. To think otherwise would be naive. The problem isn't when they say things that we know are true, it's when they try to, for want of a better phrase, polish and obvious turd and present it to us a gold.
Yes, the important thing is what we do on the pitch and getting it right on the pitch, and when that doesn't happen, and we are as abject as we have been so often over the last few seasons, we are at least entitled to expect that we'll get a little honesty from the club and it's representatives.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
You are wrong. He paid a considerable sum for 2 director box tickets, I.e it costs more than other boxes. As well as being match day sponsor a few times and bringing guests to entertain at HIS cost.
Bottom line is people ridiculing him and saying he is up his own arse and self important is out of order and hugely ironic. Lambast the article, but not the man. He used the word report as a title for an 'article' given there was a previous "report"
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
You are wrong. He paid a considerable sum for 2 director box tickets, I.e it costs more than other boxes. As well as being match day sponsor a few times and bringing guests to entertain at HIS cost.
Bottom line is people ridiculing him and saying he is up his own arse and self important is out of order and hugely ironic. Lambast the article, but not the man. He used the word report as a title for an 'article' given there was a previous "report"
You say HIS cost as if it should be anyone else's cost.
As for up his arse, "report"? Really? I think the word he meant was "opinion". When you call something a report you are implying it is factual, which it is not.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
You are wrong. He paid a considerable sum for 2 director box tickets, I.e it costs more than other boxes. As well as being match day sponsor a few times and bringing guests to entertain at HIS cost.
Bottom line is people ridiculing him and saying he is up his own arse and self important is out of order and hugely ironic. Lambast the article, but not the man. He used the word report as a title for an 'article' given there was a previous "report"
That's fair enough, although as I said there are two sides to every story and the fact that this one hasn't been particularly picked up by the media might indicate that there's more to it than he has mentioned. For example, I've heard something a bit different but I wouldn't go claiming it as fact until it was corroborated any more than I would call a lengthy Facebook post a report.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
Lambast the article, but not the man. He used the word report as a title for an 'article' given there was a previous "report"
If people want to lambast the article, surely they can lambast the title as well? It's not a 'report', it's an opinion.
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He's reporting his opinion via an article.
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Report, article, blog - who gives a flying shite what it's called, it's the content that matters. Don't sweat over the small stuff, or so they say.
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Report, article, blog - who gives a flying shite what it's called, it's the content that matters. Don't sweat over the small stuff, or so they say.
just to confirm, is this a post or a status ?
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A comment?
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
You are wrong. He paid a considerable sum for 2 director box tickets, I.e it costs more than other boxes. As well as being match day sponsor a few times and bringing guests to entertain at HIS cost.
Bottom line is people ridiculing him and saying he is up his own arse and self important is out of order and hugely ironic. Lambast the article, but not the man. He used the word report as a title for an 'article' given there was a previous "report"
You say HIS cost as if it should be anyone else's cost.
As for up his arse, "report"? Really? I think the word he meant was "opinion". When you call something a report you are implying it is factual, which it is not.
I say HIS cost as it was considered a 'privilege' when I'm fact it isn't. He paid good money for it. Money that you or I could pay if we wanted or could afford to. It's not a privilege.
As I said, I THINK the word report was just a play on words due to the original "report" I'm sure, no in fact I know he's been stating it's his opinion.
My only issue is the attitude of some to him being up his own arse and the like. There's a fair few people on here/twitter other fan sites that could easily be labeled the same. Petty and pointless dig for the sake of it...
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st as it was considered a 'privilege' when I'm fact it isn't. He paid good money for it. Money that you or I could pay if we wanted or could afford to. It's not a privilege.
I'd say it is.
If he was told that his money specifically gave him those rights, and as long as he kept sponsoring match balls and hiring the Holte Suite he was allowed to do and say as he wanted then fair enough. He has reason to feel aggrieved.
I'd guess though that it's a case of "I'm pumping a lot of money into the club, so I'm more valuable and should therefore be treated a bit better than somebody who doesn't", and that's fine as far as I'm concerned. It makes sense from a business perspective.
But unless that formal agreement is in place, then it's just a case of his money outweighing the minor inconvenience of somebody extra being in the director's box. It's now got to the point where his money doesn't outweigh the inconveniences of somebody extra being in the director's box AND a load of criticism that the board feel they probably don't need at the moment.
Him being there in the first place was a business decision and now him not being there anymore is also a business decision.
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Report, article, blog - who gives a flying shite what it's called, it's the content that matters. Don't sweat over the small stuff, or so they say.
just to confirm, is this a post or a status ?
It's my statement on the report.
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No more or less importance should be given to any reasonable post, whether called a report or not. It does not have to be a lengthy tome or look like part of a thesis, but needs to get the point across. Mr.Hodgson does not appear to have let his position in the Directors Box cause him to be silent on things he doesn't agree with and why not? This isn't Russia. However, I don't know in what form his disagreements were initially aired. If he was shouting things out in there that were derogatory to the Club, then it is only to be expected that it would be jumped on. Although you may pay well to go in those areas, there is always an element of decorum to be observed if you wish to remain in there. But, as I said, I don't know if he did 'misbehave' in that manner.
He categorically didn't. He was essentially told "be careful you don't overstay your welcome" because he tweeted that RL had only been to VP once in 2 years (which was also reported in the press and elsewhere) the whole situation was petty. There was no "misbehaving" in the directors area. Conversations were had over email. This guy (whatever you all think) paid a LOT of cash for the 'privilege' of sitting in the directors box. So to be told "don't outstay your welcome" to me smacks of bully boy tactics.
Aside from that. The article is spot on and shows what is evidentially wrong with our club. Even a win over a very poor Norwich side doesn't overshadow that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe he pays to sit in the directors box - that's an additional perk. There are two sides to every story.
You are wrong. He paid a considerable sum for 2 director box tickets, I.e it costs more than other boxes. As well as being match day sponsor a few times and bringing guests to entertain at HIS cost.
Bottom line is people ridiculing him and saying he is up his own arse and self important is out of order and hugely ironic. Lambast the article, but not the man. He used the word report as a title for an 'article' given there was a previous "report"
That's fair enough, although as I said there are two sides to every story and the fact that this one hasn't been particularly picked up by the media might indicate that there's more to it than he has mentioned. For example, I've heard something a bit different but I wouldn't go claiming it as fact until it was corroborated any more than I would call a lengthy Facebook post a report.
Fair enough. I'm not sure he posted it on Facebook? He wrote an article that got picked up by lots of places, sites etc! I know a little more than I'm willing to say, however as you say it's natural that there are two sides. The bigger picture for me is that most of what he says ('fall out' aside) is being said by many other fans I see tweet or post on twitter/message boards, not too mention those that attend VP too.
As an editor of a (rather excellent fanzine) could you not run an article yourself maybe gauging the temperature of the fan base (so to speak) you don't have to offer your own opinion, but gauge they of others? I liken it to an editor of a paper trying to gauge it's readership? Food for thought or a big no no?
Incidentally I have no agenda or affiliations, just your average fan.
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st as it was considered a 'privilege' when I'm fact it isn't. He paid good money for it. Money that you or I could pay if we wanted or could afford to. It's not a privilege.
I'd say it is.
If he was told that his money specifically gave him those rights, and as long as he kept sponsoring match balls and hiring the Holte Suite he was allowed to do and say as he wanted then fair enough. He has reason to feel aggrieved.
I'd guess though that it's a case of "I'm pumping a lot of money into the club, so I'm more valuable and should therefore be treated a bit better than somebody who doesn't", and that's fine as far as I'm concerned. It makes sense from a business perspective.
But unless that formal agreement is in place, then it's just a case of his money outweighing the minor inconvenience of somebody extra being in the director's box. It's now got to the point where his money doesn't outweigh the inconveniences of somebody extra being in the director's box AND a load of criticism that the board feel they probably don't need at the moment.
Him being there in the first place was a business decision and now him not being there anymore is also a business decision.
Yep and not a privilege. It was business and he had a right as we all do as paying customers to speak his mind. Anyway I'm not here to debate the ins and outs, more defend the needless and crass digs and him personally. I know him and he's a good guy. Like all of us he cares a lot about his club. We all at least have that in common don't we?
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Fair enough. I'm not sure he posted it on Facebook? He wrote an article that got picked up by lots of places, sites etc! I know a little more than I'm willing to say, however as you say it's natural that there are two sides. The bigger picture for me is that most of what he says ('fall out' aside) is being said by many other fans I see tweet or post on twitter/message boards, not too mention those that attend VP too.
As an editor of a (rather excellent fanzine) could you not run an article yourself maybe gauging the temperature of the fan base (so to speak) you don't have to offer your own opinion, but gauge they of others? I liken it to an editor of a paper trying to gauge it's readership? Food for thought or a big no no?
Incidentally I have no agenda or affiliations, just your average fan.
I thought it was on Facebook originally, but it was certainly picked up by other sites.
Every page of every edition of H&V (except for the editorial and the diary) is a chance for the fanbase to give their own temperature. That's what it's there for.
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Fair enough. I'm not sure he posted it on Facebook? He wrote an article that got picked up by lots of places, sites etc! I know a little more than I'm willing to say, however as you say it's natural that there are two sides. The bigger picture for me is that most of what he says ('fall out' aside) is being said by many other fans I see tweet or post on twitter/message boards, not too mention those that attend VP too.
As an editor of a (rather excellent fanzine) could you not run an article yourself maybe gauging the temperature of the fan base (so to speak) you don't have to offer your own opinion, but gauge they of others? I liken it to an editor of a paper trying to gauge it's readership? Food for thought or a big no no?
Incidentally I have no agenda or affiliations, just your average fan.
I thought it was on Facebook originally, but it was certainly picked up by other sites.
Every page of every edition of H&V (except for the editorial and the diary) is a chance for the fanbase to give their own temperature. That's what it's there for.
It was written for a villa blog/site (not sure which one, I only frequent here) maybe then shared on Facebook? The intent behind it was an article to state his opinion and of course it was personal as it was his view/experience
I guess you don't feel the need to ask the question re vision/ambition/direction etc in your editorial on behalf of your readers?
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Fair enough. I'm not sure he posted it on Facebook? He wrote an article that got picked up by lots of places, sites etc! I know a little more than I'm willing to say, however as you say it's natural that there are two sides. The bigger picture for me is that most of what he says ('fall out' aside) is being said by many other fans I see tweet or post on twitter/message boards, not too mention those that attend VP too.
As an editor of a (rather excellent fanzine) could you not run an article yourself maybe gauging the temperature of the fan base (so to speak) you don't have to offer your own opinion, but gauge they of others? I liken it to an editor of a paper trying to gauge it's readership? Food for thought or a big no no?
Incidentally I have no agenda or affiliations, just your average fan.
I thought it was on Facebook originally, but it was certainly picked up by other sites.
Every page of every edition of H&V (except for the editorial and the diary) is a chance for the fanbase to give their own temperature. That's what it's there for.
It was written for a villa blog/site (not sure which one, I only frequent here) maybe then shared on Facebook? The intent behind it was an article to state his opinion and of course it was personal as it was his view/experience
I guess you don't feel the need to ask the question re vision/ambition/direction etc in your editorial on behalf of your readers?
You mean something like:
"Yet again we’re risking safety in the interests of saving a comparatively small amount of money.... But – and this has been a failing for years – someone should be talking. Not just glib phrases but a clear and defined vision of where they want to the club to go and how they intend it to get there. If not we’re going to carry on aimlessly, with supporters growing ever-restless and the devil making work for idle media hands."
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Fair enough. I'm not sure he posted it on Facebook? He wrote an article that got picked up by lots of places, sites etc! I know a little more than I'm willing to say, however as you say it's natural that there are two sides. The bigger picture for me is that most of what he says ('fall out' aside) is being said by many other fans I see tweet or post on twitter/message boards, not too mention those that attend VP too.
As an editor of a (rather excellent fanzine) could you not run an article yourself maybe gauging the temperature of the fan base (so to speak) you don't have to offer your own opinion, but gauge they of others? I liken it to an editor of a paper trying to gauge it's readership? Food for thought or a big no no?
Incidentally I have no agenda or affiliations, just your average fan.
I thought it was on Facebook originally, but it was certainly picked up by other sites.
Every page of every edition of H&V (except for the editorial and the diary) is a chance for the fanbase to give their own temperature. That's what it's there for.
It was written for a villa blog/site (not sure which one, I only frequent here) maybe then shared on Facebook? The intent behind it was an article to state his opinion and of course it was personal as it was his view/experience
I guess you don't feel the need to ask the question re vision/ambition/direction etc in your editorial on behalf of your readers?
You mean something like:
"Yet again we’re risking safety in the interests of saving a comparatively small amount of money.... But – and this has been a failing for years – someone should be talking. Not just glib phrases but a clear and defined vision of where they want to the club to go and how they intend it to get there. If not we’re going to carry on aimlessly, with supporters growing ever-restless and the devil making work for idle media hands."
Yes :) was that your last editorial? My bad haha! I guess the trust are those that need to speak and ask the questions then? Really need to gear themselves to be more prominent and make those extra members count.
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Fair enough. I'm not sure he posted it on Facebook? He wrote an article that got picked up by lots of places, sites etc! I know a little more than I'm willing to say, however as you say it's natural that there are two sides. The bigger picture for me is that most of what he says ('fall out' aside) is being said by many other fans I see tweet or post on twitter/message boards, not too mention those that attend VP too.
As an editor of a (rather excellent fanzine) could you not run an article yourself maybe gauging the temperature of the fan base (so to speak) you don't have to offer your own opinion, but gauge they of others? I liken it to an editor of a paper trying to gauge it's readership? Food for thought or a big no no?
Incidentally I have no agenda or affiliations, just your average fan.
I thought it was on Facebook originally, but it was certainly picked up by other sites.
Every page of every edition of H&V (except for the editorial and the diary) is a chance for the fanbase to give their own temperature. That's what it's there for.
It was written for a villa blog/site (not sure which one, I only frequent here) maybe then shared on Facebook? The intent behind it was an article to state his opinion and of course it was personal as it was his view/experience
I guess you don't feel the need to ask the question re vision/ambition/direction etc in your editorial on behalf of your readers?
You mean something like:
"Yet again we’re risking safety in the interests of saving a comparatively small amount of money.... But – and this has been a failing for years – someone should be talking. Not just glib phrases but a clear and defined vision of where they want to the club to go and how they intend it to get there. If not we’re going to carry on aimlessly, with supporters growing ever-restless and the devil making work for idle media hands."
Yes :) was that your last editorial? My bad haha! I guess the trust are those that need to speak and ask the questions then? Really need to gear themselves to be more prominent and make those extra members count.
That was, indeed, the last editorial. Now it's down to the Trust and its new members to do what they think is right.
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Fair comment Dave (I don't know how to just quote the last paragraph) I hope they can keep the momentum going and be a unified voice. Given the cross section of opinions on here, a tall order indeed.
Edited for typos
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Fair comment Dave (I don't know how to just quote the last paragraph) I hope they can keep the momentum going and be a unified voice. Given the cross section of opinions on here, a tall order indeed.
Edited for typos
That's what I said elsewhere. The club has shown that if you talk to them reasonably then they'll listen but there's no point going at every door with a sledgehammer.
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The club has shown that if you talk to them reasonably then they'll listen but there's no point going at every door with a sledgehammer.
That's a massive and really important point but I do wonder despite them doing so much behind the scenes that makes me so proud to support Aston Villa, they still fail on the basics. For the life of me, I can't understand for one millisecond what was the reasoning in offering Paul Lambert an extended contract? It's beyond me unless it's Randy giving the 'V's to the fans and reminding them he's the man in charge.
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You can ask what questions you like. It won't make a ha'porth of difference to Lambert's contract or players being signed. Apart from those issues and the price of match tickets / season tickets, which are as likely to be reduced as the average house / car insurance, what can you talk about except niceties over a cup of coffee? Even if the subject of Lambert's contract was discussed, what would the question be?
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You can ask what questions you like. It won't make a ha'porth of difference to Lambert's contract or players being signed. Apart from those issues and the price of match tickets / season tickets, which are as likely to be reduced as the average house / car insurance, what can you talk about except niceties over a cup of coffee? Even if the subject of Lambert's contract was discussed, what would the question be?
So do we all just not bother and accept our lot? Good job that approach hasn't been adopted in life per se (not a personal dog by the way, just a general point) you can always bring about change. Just need to approach it the right way. With the backing of many and the right questions asked often enough, change may just happen..
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For the life of me, I can't understand for one millisecond what was the reasoning in offering Paul Lambert an extended contract? It's beyond me unless it's Randy giving the 'V's to the fans and reminding them he's the man in charge.
You mean like when he employed Alex McCleish?
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You can ask what questions you like. It won't make a ha'porth of difference to Lambert's contract or players being signed. Apart from those issues and the price of match tickets / season tickets, which are as likely to be reduced as the average house / car insurance, what can you talk about except niceties over a cup of coffee? Even if the subject of Lambert's contract was discussed, what would the question be?
So do we all just not bother and accept our lot? Good job that approach hasn't been adopted in life per se (not a personal dog by the way, just a general point) you can always bring about change. Just need to approach it the right way. With the backing of many and the right questions asked often enough, change may just happen..
What do you suggest the questions to be asked are?
If the club want to ask questions of the fans then they will do so, as they have before, these usually being along the lines of 'are you renewing your season ticket?'
If the questions are about Lambert's approach to football, then maybe he should be questionned.
I can't see any questions being asked about Lambert's position as Manager.
If I was to seek some information, I would ask why the board have been gambling with our Premier League status.
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I think what most fans want to be assured of is once the books are in a reasonable state that the club will be looking at some quality signings. I don't think for one minute that we will be challenging the top clubs any day soon or that Randy will be giving a big war chest to any manager, but the ever suffering season ticket holders deserve to have something to look forward too.
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My only issue is the attitude of some to him being up his own arse and the like. There's a fair few people on here/twitter other fan sites that could easily be labeled the same. Petty and pointless dig for the sake of it...
There are.
But they aren't publishing "reports" that are now being bandied around by the media as fact.
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You can ask what questions you like. It won't make a ha'porth of difference to Lambert's contract or players being signed. Apart from those issues and the price of match tickets / season tickets, which are as likely to be reduced as the average house / car insurance, what can you talk about except niceties over a cup of coffee? Even if the subject of Lambert's contract was discussed, what would the question be?
So do we all just not bother and accept our lot? Good job that approach hasn't been adopted in life per se (not a personal dog by the way, just a general point) you can always bring about change. Just need to approach it the right way. With the backing of many and the right questions asked often enough, change may just happen..
What do you suggest the questions to be asked are?
If the club want to ask questions of the fans then they will do so, as they have before, these usually being along the lines of 'are you renewing your season ticket?'
If the questions are about Lambert's approach to football, then maybe he should be questionned.
I can't see any questions being asked about Lambert's position as Manager.
If I was to seek some information, I would ask why the board have been gambling with our Premier League status.
I was on about a united front (The Trust?) asking questions of the club re vision/ambition etc and holding them accountable to what is said. As for style of football and all things on the football side, again questions to the board around footballing philosophy may influence this moving forward (if not with this manager) surely proactive and regular dialogue with the club is a good thing? When it was a PLC it was slightly accountable, now there is nothing (short of everyone not attending games)
I'd like to see a real united effort to have a rationale approach to club affairs. Having the trust further in the limelight/wider audience can only be a good thing IMO
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My only issue is the attitude of some to him being up his own arse and the like. There's a fair few people on here/twitter other fan sites that could easily be labeled the same. Petty and pointless dig for the sake of it...
There are.
But they aren't publishing "reports" that are now being bandied around by the media as fact.
Well we can debate whether he published a report or purely used it as a title for an 'article' given he and his father did an actual report in 2005 (I think) also how is he to blame for media now quoting his OPINION as fact? As I said, agree/disagree with what it said, but to disrespect the man in petty and needless.
I can't see the point in continuing discussing it, I guess it is what it is. I've made my feelings clear.
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For the life of me, I can't understand for one millisecond what was the reasoning in offering Paul Lambert an extended contract?
I have to say, I entirely agree.
It was daft on two levels.
Firstly, it removes any pressure on Lambert for his job. Quite the contrary, in fact, rather than removing pressure, he is being put into the comfort zone. At this moment in time, given our season and recent (till last game) results, we clearly have been in a position where the manager's safety should be in doubt. That's not to say he should have been sacked, but if you looked at last season and this, on paper, those are the sort of records that get managers fired.
Secondly, it sent the wrong message to the fans, as you said, Mark, what message does that send? That they're happy to be where we are?
I entirely understand the counter argument that it creates stability etc etc, but stability of what? Staying just above the relegation places yet again? The time to talk to him about a new contract is when things are starting to go significantly better than they are at the moment.
An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
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Well we can debate whether he published a report or purely used it as a title for an 'article' given he and his father did an actual report in 2005 (I think) also how is he to blame for media now quoting his OPINION as fact? As I said, agree/disagree with what it said, but to disrespect the man in petty and needless.
In the same vein as others in the past who have found themselves "accidentally" portrayed in the media as the "Voice of Villa fans", I don't see a retraction or a follow-up article explaining that it was only his own opinion.
So we can only conclude that he is happy for the media to portray him as such and therefore has, in my opinion, made himself fair game for opprobrium from those that disagree with him.
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
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Has he actually signed the new contract yet, genuine question.
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Well we can debate whether he published a report or purely used it as a title for an 'article' given he and his father did an actual report in 2005 (I think) also how is he to blame for media now quoting his OPINION as fact? As I said, agree/disagree with what it said, but to disrespect the man in petty and needless.
In the same vein as others in the past who have found themselves "accidentally" portrayed in the media as the "Voice of Villa fans", I don't see a retraction or a follow-up article explaining that it was only his own opinion.
So we can only conclude that he is happy for the media to portray him as such and therefore has, in my opinion, made himself fair game for opprobrium from those that disagree with him.
Fair enough.
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Has he actually signed the new contract yet, genuine question.
Don't think so. The only word was that Villa were 'willing to enter talks' about one.
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Are you willing yo discuss my new contract?
Yes Paul, of course.
Great. Can I have a new contract?
No.
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Are you willing yo discuss my new contract?
Yes Paul, of course.
Great. Can I have a new contract?
No.
The football equivalent of Alan Partridge and the BBC controller. Smell my cheese!
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is moving in the right direction on the pitch.
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is movig in the right direction on the pitch.
Only relative to the rest of the division, which is far weaker this season than last. You would have to be shockingly bad to get relegated. I wonder how football can exist below us when most of the top flight teams are crap.
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is movig in the right direction on the pitch.
Only relative to the rest of the division, which is far weaker this season than last. You would have to be shockingly bad to get relegated. I wonder how football can exist below us when most of the top flight teams are crap.
I don't really get how people can say the division is stronger/weaker than last season with any certainty. If things were so neat and tidy you wouldn't get teams like Norwich beating Spurs one week and then getting hammered by Villa the next.
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is movig in the right direction on the pitch.
Only relative to the rest of the division, which is far weaker this season than last. You would have to be shockingly bad to get relegated. I wonder how football can exist below us when most of the top flight teams are crap.
I don't really get how people can say the division is stronger/weaker than last season with any certainty. If things were so neat and tidy you wouldn't get teams like Norwich beating Spurs one week and then getting hammered by Villa the next.
I am sure that a statto will be able to confirm or otherwise but how often has the prospect of relegation applied to so many teams, even those in the rarified air of 11th?
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is movig in the right direction on the pitch.
Only relative to the rest of the division, which is far weaker this season than last. You would have to be shockingly bad to get relegated. I wonder how football can exist below us when most of the top flight teams are crap.
I don't really get how people can say the division is stronger/weaker than last season with any certainty. If things were so neat and tidy you wouldn't get teams like Norwich beating Spurs one week and then getting hammered by Villa the next.
I've also never really understood why that argument, should it be true, is all that relevant. It's like saying we only survived last season because there were three worse teams. Well, Man Utd only won the title becuase there were 19 worse teams than them. We can only operate in the league we're in and whatever merit we do or don't deserve after 38 games is deserved passed on this season, with the one before or the one after being largely irrelevant.
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is movig in the right direction on the pitch.
Only relative to the rest of the division, which is far weaker this season than last. You would have to be shockingly bad to get relegated. I wonder how football can exist below us when most of the top flight teams are crap.
Using 'only relative to the rest of the division' is a fairly pedantic argument.
You have to have a subjective measure of improvement, points and league position is the way it has always been done.
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I am sure that a statto will be able to confirm or otherwise but how often has the prospect of relegation applied to so many teams, even those in the rarified air of 11th?
After 28 games in 12/13 Fulham were in 11th on 33 points and Albion were 10th and probably safe with 40. This season, you have West Ham 10th with 31 and Saints 11th with 39. So there's really only 1 extra team in it this year.
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An argument can be made - a relatively convincing one - that he should stay in the job, but I can't see any way you could make an argument that he deserves a pay rise.
True. I'd imagine if a list was drawn up as to why he should stay in his job, none of the main reasons would be related to the prime task of his job; the football.
Isn't there?
If you mean the style elements, then that's very subjective and hard to quantify. I think his prime task is football RESULTS, and compared to 28 games played last season we've won 3 more games and lost 1 less, scored 5 more goals and let 15 less in, and have 7 more points.
I don't think that's necessarily anything to go wild about, but does show that something is movig in the right direction on the pitch.
Only relative to the rest of the division, which is far weaker this season than last. You would have to be shockingly bad to get relegated. I wonder how football can exist below us when most of the top flight teams are crap.
Using 'only relative to the rest of the division' is a fairly pedantic argument.
You have to have a subjective measure of improvement, points and league position is the way it has always been done.
'Something is moving in the right direction'?
We would have dropped like a stone if the numerous teams below us weren't so poor. I'll give us one means of measuring it. See what the highest points tally of the relegated clubs is and compare it against every other Premier League season.
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Man City wouldn't be so high in the league if all the teams below them weren't so poor.
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Man City wouldn't be so high in the league if all the teams below them weren't so poor.
So you think the football is getting better then?
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I am saying that I find it a bit daft to use the line of "if it wasn't for the others being so poor" line. It swings both ways.
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I am saying that I find it a bit daft to use the line of "if it wasn't for the others being so poor" line. It swings both ways.
It does but we should only be concerned with our potential predicament and not the situation that Man City find themselves in.
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I am not concerned about Man City, I was using them as an example of what a daft argument it is.
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I am saying that I find it a bit daft to use the line of "if it wasn't for the others being so poor" line. It swings both ways.
It does but we should only be concerned with our potential predicament and not the situation that Man City find themselves in.
We indeed should be but if (and of course this is a big if) we finish the season where we are now? Will this just be dismissed as "well it's because everyone else was so poor"?
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I don't really see why the league is weaker than last season.
Are Cardiff, Palace and Hull any worse than QPR, Reading and Wigan? Certainly Palace and Hull's league positions don't suggest they are.
I think most people would say that Southampton, Man City and Arsenal are definitely better this year than they were last year but that's still nine points more than we got from the fixtures against them last year.
It's just a bit simplistic to say "we only doing better because everyone else is worse".
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Worrying about how good/poor other clubs are just clouds the issue. Lambert has purchased some real dross. The quality of football is arguably worse this season to last season. I just hope that the Norwich result is something of a turning point. If we are on a so called journey, I would say that we appear to stuck in traffic at the moment.
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It's just a bit simplistic to say "we only doing better because everyone else is worse".
It's the natural counter to the actual stats for this season for those who base their judgements on the style of play and not results. I have no beef with someone saying "We're doing better, but it's not as exciting as I thought it would be or that it should be." What I do think is worth challenging is the standpoint that we're awful and lucky to be where we are due to crapness of teams around us.
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It's just a bit simplistic to say "we only doing better because everyone else is worse".
It's the natural counter to the actual stats for this season for those who base their judgements on the style of play and not results. I have no beef with someone saying "We're doing better, but it's not as exciting as I thought it would be or that it should be." What I do think is worth challenging is the standpoint that we're awful and lucky to be where we are due to crapness of teams around us.
If we stay up on 37 points with the three relegated teams obviously getting less, I think it would be fair to say that, in nearly every other Premier League season, that amount of points would have seen us drop. The only reason that we wouldn't is the below average points total of the relegated teams. Below average - worse than normal.
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People can dress it up as much as they like, but in reality Villa have been absolutely shite this season. The home form has been quite unforgivable.
Huge summer ahead of us in respects of where this club is heading.
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It's just a bit simplistic to say "we only doing better because everyone else is worse".
It's the natural counter to the actual stats for this season for those who base their judgements on the style of play and not results. I have no beef with someone saying "We're doing better, but it's not as exciting as I thought it would be or that it should be." What I do think is worth challenging is the standpoint that we're awful and lucky to be where we are due to crapness of teams around us.
If we stay up on 37 points with the three relegated teams obviously getting less, I think it would be fair to say that, in nearly every other Premier League season, that amount of points would have seen us drop. The only reason that we wouldn't is the below average points total of the relegated teams. Below average - worse than normal.
Well, if that happened you'd have a valid argument. However, it hasn't yet and doesn't look like it's going to.
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It's just a bit simplistic to say "we only doing better because everyone else is worse".
I'd agree with that.
I think the actual question is whether - if we are doing better - we have improved enough. Nobody is going to be satisfied by 15th then 14th then 13th and so on.
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It's just a bit simplistic to say "we only doing better because everyone else is worse".
It's the natural counter to the actual stats for this season for those who base their judgements on the style of play and not results. I have no beef with someone saying "We're doing better, but it's not as exciting as I thought it would be or that it should be." What I do think is worth challenging is the standpoint that we're awful and lucky to be where we are due to crapness of teams around us.
If we stay up on 37 points with the three relegated teams obviously getting less, I think it would be fair to say that, in nearly every other Premier League season, that amount of points would have seen us drop. The only reason that we wouldn't is the below average points total of the relegated teams. Below average - worse than normal.
Well, if that happened you'd have a valid argument. However, it hasn't yet and doesn't look like it's going to.
To be reviewed at the end of the season.
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The other point is that the board admitted, in the wake of the Mcleish sacking that the football had not been "compelling" enough. One of the remits of the new "young and hungry" era was to start playing football that people actually wanted to watch. And again it looked like we might be on the way there last season. But nobody can deny that this season has been a step backwards in that aspect. I still believe that is the football Lambert wants to play and will see who comes in over the Summer.
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To be reviewed at the end of the season.
Fair enough.
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
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To be reviewed at the end of the season.
Fair enough.
In the meantime. I haven't fully studied this yet but take a look and see what you think. It is a few weeks out of date.
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/18/the-alternative-premier-league-table-is-this-the-closest-relegation-battle-in-years-4267648/
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To be reviewed at the end of the season.
Fair enough.
In the meantime. I haven't fully studied this yet but take a look and see what you think. It is a few weeks out of date.
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/18/the-alternative-premier-league-table-is-this-the-closest-relegation-battle-in-years-4267648/
That is interesting, but does it really tell us anything that we didn't already know - as in it's very tight in the bottom half?
There are only a finite amount of points available in the PL. So, if the bottom teams have less points than expected, then surely that means somewhere further up the league you have teams with more than expected? Except if there is an inordinate amount of draws, of course. So, if the argument is that the league is weaker, specifically down near the bottom, then surely it's bit of a balancing act where it is actually stronger in another part of the table?
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
Sounds like you're desperate.
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I do think we might be in a little danger of disappearing up our own orifices with over analysis here. Of course a couple of freak late results can give a slightly false picture but by and large if you spend the majority of the season bobbing along in the middle of the table and that's where you end up it's fair to say that's where you deserved to be on merit. Trying to argue that the league is weaker or stronger overall one year to the next is fairly subjective.
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
If you have said it literally a million times then over the course of 7976 posts that averages at more than 123 times for each time you click on the 'post' button - you boring git. :¬)
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If you have said it literally a million times then over the course of 7976 posts that averages at more than 123 times for each time you click on the 'post' button - you boring git. :¬)
Not under the new OED definition where literally actually means figuratively.
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If you have said it literally a million times then over the course of 7976 posts that averages at more than 123 times for each time you click on the 'post' button - you boring git. :¬)
Not under the new OED definition where literally actually means figuratively.
I've figuratively told you a million times don't be a know it all.
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If you have said it literally a million times then over the course of 7976 posts that averages at more than 123 times for each time you click on the 'post' button - you boring git. :¬)
Not under the new OED definition where literally actually means figuratively.
So literally, literally doesn't mean literally in any literal sense of the word.
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He literally meant figuratively.
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He literally meant figuratively.
He literally meant figuratively.
Well, I figured he wasn't trying to be alliterative.
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
Sounds like you're desperate.
No not me , I'm prepared to see how it goes with Lambert
But there are those who want him out and can't see any reason why he should stay
And I'm saying if we stay mid table that's reason enough for Randy not to fire him,
I can't see him getting the sack while we are inconsistent but mid table, that's what most of us would have settled for at the start of the season
I hope he is still there next season, although its not been a bowl of cherries at times he deserves another window, and I'm sure hel get one if things stay pretty much the way they are
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
If you have said it literally a million times then over the course of 7976 posts that averages at more than 123 times for each time you click on the 'post' button - you boring git. :¬)
I knew that would get on some people's nerves, hence the reason for writing it
But sadly I have no defence for being a boring bit,
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
Sounds like you're desperate.
No not me , I'm prepared to see how it goes with Lambert
But there are those who want him out and can't see any reason why he should stay
And I'm saying if we stay mid table that's reason enough for Randy not to fire him,
I can't see him getting the sack while we are inconsistent but mid table, that's what most of us would have settled for at the start of the season
I hope he is still there next season, although its not been a bowl of cherries at times he deserves another window, and I'm sure hel get one if things stay pretty much the way they are
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it.
The key is the next window, but I think it may say more about Randy than it does Lambert. Can we start investing to go forward again or is it more of the same?
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If we stay up on 37 points with the three relegated teams obviously getting less, I think it would be fair to say that, in nearly every other Premier League season, that amount of points would have seen us drop. The only reason that we wouldn't is the below average points total of the relegated teams. Below average - worse than normal.
Nope, the average amount of points a team has needed to avoid being in the bottom three since 1996 (when the league went to 20 teams) is exactly 37.
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What did Wigan have last season? Who were 4th bottom? Sunderland? I've tried to erase most of it.
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Wigan 36 points, Sunderland 39.
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Working backwards in time (ooooh I'm Doctor Who), 18th place has had 36, 36, 39 (small heath haha), 30, 34, 36, 38, 34, 33, 33, 42, 36, 34, 33. I got bored by the time I reached that last season which was 99/00.
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
But you've got less than 8000 posts. Or did you repeat it lots in the same post?
[smiley/annoying face thingy]
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Working backwards in time (ooooh I'm Doctor Who), 18th place has had 36, 36, 39 (small heath haha), 30, 34, 36, 38, 34, 33, 33, 42, 36, 34, 33. I got bored by the time I reached that last season which was 99/00.
TSM beat his target of 38 points from 38 draws by 1 and still took them down.
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On the subject of relegation I have worked on the theory that as long as we average more than a point a game and there are three more teams below us who average less than a point a game I have not been worried about us going down.
For that reason I have not worried about relegation all season
Which is an improvement on last season
Even if the football has not been too entertaining
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Its that much of an improvement that I am being trampled on in the stampede to get to the Ticket Office for next year's ST.
Dave is right. 37 points is the average to be safe according to this:
http://ampp3d.mirror.co.uk/2014/02/21/how-many-points-do-you-need-to-avoid-premier-league-relegation/
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Okay, we're being asked, maybe, to put our hands deeper into our pockets on the back of some ugly performances. But, we can't have it both ways. we want more investment into the club but only if it's from a hugely rich money no object benefactor. If we are struggling surely us digging deeper won't hurt that much? Easy for me to say I know as I watch maybe no more than 2 or 3 games live a season and don't have a season ticket. But, can it be viewed as similar to taxes, those that can should dig a little deeper because its money that we hope is being used for the goodof the club/team?
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It would depend on how and where the extra money is being spent.
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True. But surely any money flowing into the club is needed however it's spent? if its to help with running costs then fine, if it's to pay the wages of a chef at VFM would we think that is a useful or sustainable project?
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True. But surely any money flowing into the club is needed however it's spent? if its to help with running costs then fine, if it's to pay the wages of a chef at VFM would we think that is a useful or sustainable project?
Bit of a weird comparison considering the annual pay of a chef at VFM will equal about half a day for a premier league footballer.
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True. But surely any money flowing into the club is needed however it's spent? if its to help with running costs then fine, if it's to pay the wages of a chef at VFM would we think that is a useful or sustainable project?
Bit of a weird comparison considering the annual pay of a chef at VFM will equal about half a day for a premier league footballer.
I calculated how much I had paid to watch football over the years and it still wouldn't pay the weekly wages of some of the footballing clowns of today. The money paid in by the average punter is just a drop in the ocean. Who will be first to say the words 'bubble and burst'?
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I sometimes toy with the idea of just sending some money so I don't have to turn up...
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I've said literally a million times before on here,
if your desperate to get Lambert out then you had better start hoping we lose a load more games and put ourselves in the bottom 3 or 4
Because there's no way he's going anywhere as long as we sit in 11 th position in the league
Mid table teams are always inconsistent that's why they are mid table, they win one,lose two, draw one, lose one then win another and so it goes on
If we pick up 3 points out of the next 5 games we will probably still be pretty much mid table, sitting on 34 points with 5 to play, there will still be no pressure on the manager because that's what mid table ness is all about, just getting by,
Lose the next 6 or 7 games on the trot and then Randy has a choice to make
If you have said it literally a million times then over the course of 7976 posts that averages at more than 123 times for each time you click on the 'post' button - you boring git. :¬)
I knew that would get on some people's nerves, hence the reason for writing it
But sadly I have no defence for being a boring bit,
That does not augur well for the future, no matter how many times you drill it in.
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It would depend on how and where the extra money is being spent.
A nice new contract for Mr Wigooigain