Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Mellin on January 30, 2014, 08:05:27 AM
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It's all gone very quiet.
Was just wondering what his status is at the moment and if people still think he'll make it at Villa, or if you think he'll be moved on shortly? Obviously he had those two ACL injuries, which was massively unfortunate, especially at that stage of his development. Our midfield is a bit soft at the minute, so I find myself asking why he has had no playing time. Injured again? Not good enough?
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And as a brief aside, did N'Zogbia's leg fall off entirely?
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His contract is up at the end of the season. I think it's doubtful we'll renew it. I think we should loan him out, see how he does and then decide to renew it.
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Was thinking something similar this morning. After KEAs performance last night, Gardner and Johnson can't be doing much on training to impress PL.
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Not even on the bench last night. Unless he and his agent have already decided that his career at VP is over to my mind he should be demanding a loan move so he can at least show PL what he can do in match play.
I don't think he was in the u-21s the other night? How many minutes competitive football has he played this season?
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I think his time with us might be done, which is a real shame.
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Is it just my imagination/wishful thinking, or was GG not VERY highly rated not so long ago, i spoke to someone connected with Blues youth set-up and he told me that even they rated him as a prospect (no great recommendation, i know). This is beginning to look very sad.
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It's all gone very quiet.
Was just wondering what his status is at the moment and if people still think he'll make it at Villa, or if you think he'll be moved on shortly? Obviously he had those two ACL injuries, which was massively unfortunate, especially at that stage of his development. Our midfield is a bit soft at the minute, so I find myself asking why he has had no playing time. Injured again? Not good enough?
And as a brief aside, did N'Zogbia's leg fall off entirely?
N'zogbia is sleeping in Dunne's hibernation bunker from last season. Gardner sadly seems to have gone the way of Stefan Moore. Incredible promise not fulfilled. That may be a very harsh assessment but no evidence to contradict it at present.
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One of the big disappointment's, so many people raved about him but when he did play he looked pretty ordinary.
Maybe he just aint good enough, the bad injury can not have helped.
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He hasn't had a look in, suggesting he's not good enough. It happens.
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He's had too many injuries over key years in his development. It's one thing being touted as a possible next Gerrard at 16-18, but hes lost a good few years with injuries.
You'd also guess he'll be on a reasonable good wage, because he's not long after the likes of Fonz, Bannan and Albrighton were getting very good deals despite their age and not playing much. I mean GG could be on 15k a week, possibly even more, despite having played barely any first team football for us.
I don't see us renewing his deal. Likewise Albrighton hasn't played enough to warrant being on 20odd thousand a week. He could of course accept an extension for a reduced wage, but I don't think Lambert's style suits Albrighton. He's tried him in a few game but Lambo just isn't a fan of wingers it seems.
It's a shame but losing Gardner and Albrighton frees up a good chunk of wages that can go toward one decent player. Add on top of that the likes of Bent, Hutton etc who will likely leave and we should be looking at making significantly more ambitious signings than the likes of Bowery, Tonev, Sylla etc. More along the level of Bertrand, Vlaar, Benteke.
Gardner needs to get his head down and spend a year or two at a decent Championship side. I'd say the same goes for Albrighton too.
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Sylla, KEA and Westwood were all bought and therefore backed by Lambert so they get away with a lot of dross performances because it reflects bad on the manager if he drops them/realises they're not up to it. Consequently, Gary Gardner, already devoid of match sharpness due to minor injuries after two major ones, has an uphill struggle to get any game time. He desperately needs a loan move to get him back playing. Hopefully, if it went well, Lambert would then give him a fair crack before the end of the season. Looking more unlikely with each passing week though.
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Was thinking something similar this morning. After KEAs performance last night, Gardner and Johnson can't be doing much on training to impress PL.
Gardner on one leg would be better than KEA!!
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Don't understand why if he's fit he isn't going out on loan.
I would be surprised if we don't offer him a new 2 year deal or something unless he looks total off the pace from the bad injuries he's had.
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he's 21. delph had the same injuries at his age, and look at him now. i doubt gardner is on big money, and he'll want to prove himself at villa.
lambert has hardly excelled himself in bring in central midfielders. sylla and kea are limited. westwood is inconsistent and lacks bottle. he seems to buy defensive-minded, industrial midfielders in the mould he was as a player.
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I hold out a vague hope we'll give him another 12 months to see what he can do but not looking likely at the moment. Absolutely rotten luck with injuries not just in severity but timing too.
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Sylla, KEA and Westwood were all bought and therefore backed by Lambert so they get away with a lot of dross performances because it reflects bad on the manager if he drops them/realises they're not up to it. Consequently, Gary Gardner, already devoid of match sharpness due to minor injuries after two major ones, has an uphill struggle to get any game time. He desperately needs a loan move to get him back playing. Hopefully, if it went well, Lambert would then give him a fair crack before the end of the season. Looking more unlikely with each passing week though.
He'd have played plenty of games last season if he hadn't done his cruciate, think he'd have fitted in well as he can at least get into the box from midfield which is a major problem with our current midfielders.
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Unless the club can see from training that he is struggling to make it i'd like us to give him another 12 months as I doubt he's clogging up much of the wage bill. However as he approaches his 22nd birthday he really does need to be playing. Real shame for the kid to lose best part of two years to those injuries, especially at a key time to development.
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I think the key thing is that we do not let him go. The fact that Lambert has not given him much game time makes no nevermind. I do not rate Lambert as a judge of a player. That is not Lambert knocking, I just don't think it is his strong suit. He is too inflexible. MON was the same. He has a fixed concept of what makes a good player and a prospect either falls into it or out of it but the real world is not like that. The whole history of football is littered with successes who were regarded as no hopers and failures who were going to be world beaters. Johnny Haynes was too slow, Jimmy Greaves was a piss head, Johnny Giles was too one footed, Andy Gray was too short and so on and so forth. The only factor which really matters is what the player does on the pitch in a game. If GG can do it he will do it. If he can't do it his career is over effectively. I think it will be the former.
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I would give him 2 years, get him out on loan now until the end of the season, and then again next season. The worst thing will be watching him being bought for 5-6 million in 2 years time after impressing in the Championship for someone. New deal, get him senior games. Have patience.,
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Give him an extension and twelve months to prove himself
I've never really seen that much in him but if there's any faith he might be the player the hype suggested it has to be worth giving him twelve months to get over his injuries
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Gardner turning out for the Under 21s tonight:
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3651917,00.html?
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@MatKendrick: Gardner's question time: Gary Gardner must wait to find out if he will be offered a new #avfc contract this summer http://t.co/SgZdQP6sxb?
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He played a few times the McLeish season, along with Carruthers who also seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Can't really remember how he looked in the first team, anybody got any recollection?
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Well, he certainly didn't produce anything in line with the acclaim some hold him. People have posted he's the next Gerrard and will captain England, based on what I do not know. File under Stefan Moore.
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I haven't seen him play much as I don't watch the under 21's, but the only thing he has ever done in the first XI is miss a sitter at Wolves.
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He played a few times the McLeish season, along with Carruthers who also seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Can't really remember how he looked in the first team, anybody got any recollection?
I must admit I was impressed by Carruthers willingness and confidence to take people on against Liverpool when he came on as sub - can't really recall Gardner doing anything special in his games.
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He played a few times the McLeish season, along with Carruthers who also seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Carruthers is on loan at MK Dons and doing pretty well last time I heard.
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He played a few times the McLeish season, along with Carruthers who also seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Carruthers is on loan at MK Dons and doing pretty well last time I heard.
I didn't mean it to sound like he had disappeared, rather, I was referring to 'wayside' in terms of our first team squad. They were both rising stars that gave us some hope that awful season and neither seems to have come close to competing in Lambert's squad two years on (Gardner's injury notwithstanding).
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I haven't seen him play much as I don't watch the under 21's, but the only thing he has ever done in the first XI is miss a sitter at Wolves.
Pretty harsh. Wasn't it his shot that Schwarzer failed to hold, allowing Weimann to get a last minute winner against Fulham in McLeish's season? The last win we got which effectively kept us up.
I also remember him coming on at Newcastle when we lost 2-1 (Robbie Keane for us) when he galvanised the midfield and was unlucky not to score an equaliser.
The boy has got a lot going for him. I can't remember us having a player picked for England U-21's when he's not even playing for his club/on loan.
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I haven't seen him play much as I don't watch the under 21's, but the only thing he has ever done in the first XI is miss a sitter at Wolves.
Pretty harsh. Wasn't it his shot that Schwarzer failed to hold, allowing Weimann to get a last minute winner against Fulham in McLeish's season? The last win we got which effectively kept us up.
I also remember him coming on at Newcastle when we lost 2-1 (Robbie Keane for us) when he galvanised the midfield and was unlucky not to score an equaliser.
The boy has got a lot going for him. I can't remember us having a player picked for England U-21's when he's not even playing for his club/on loan.
Correct. Weimann and Gardner both came on as late subs, Gardner had a pop that Schwarzer couldn't hold onto and Weimann followed it up to tap in.
He's not exactly set the world on fire but between his serious injuries and the manager's that he played under, that's hardly surprising. I would hate to see us casually release him and then see him start to live up to his potential somewhere else. We could just as easily have been in the same position with Delph and imagine if he was putting in these performances with one of our rivals. He needs to be playing regular football again to see if he can live up to the hype.
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Could he fill Westwood's shoes for a game or two? I think Westwood could do with being out of the team for a week or two.
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I think he needs a run of games as we need to see how well he has recovered from a bad injury - hopefully he will find form and earn a new deal as he showed great potential before his injuries.
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I know he has been injured, but is he any good, I never seen him play , barring i think v Man united 2011-12
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When I saw him in the few first team appearances he made, I thought he seemed off the pace. Also he did not appear to have much natural speed himself although I suppose this can be overcome with awareness etc. Stan wasn't the quickest round the pitch was he?
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I am guessing here, but I would think that Gardener's last deal was negotiated during more speculative times at VP.
Is he worth a similar deal?
Is he worth a pay rise?
I would suggest we can put his and Albrighton's wages to more effective use with a good first team replacement. Unless of course he is in fact the dogs doodahs, which based upon the appearances I have witnessed have no idea.
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So he has made 18 appearances for the club, many a substitute and people are writing him off. For a young player who has had his career disrupted by two serious injuries, how can people conclude he is not good enough. With that sort of judgement you should be Premier League managers.
He needs to be brought into the team through the rest of this season and not stuck out wide as he was when McLeish was here. If he could develop on the potential he showed earlier in his career he could be the central midfield player we have been lacking. I would extend his contract by 2 years and, if needs be, sending out on loan at the beginning of next season.
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He needs a loan spell I think. He's coming back from injury and is still a young player so I don't think it is right that we throw him into the bearpit of the Premiership especially as he's only likely to be making sub appearances. A spell at a Championship team where he will make regular starts will do him the power of good.
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he's 21. delph had the same injuries at his age, and look at him now. i doubt gardner is on big money, and he'll want to prove himself at villa.
Delph had one big advantage over Gardner in that he played a lot whilst at Leeds. I fear that the whole 10,000 rule will hamper Gardner: In the years where he really needed to be playing to stay ahead of his peers he's suffered horrific injuries.
I'd offer him another deal, 2 years on the same terms (guessing 5k a week) and send him away on loan for a whole season. He won't improve playing sporadic reserve/u21 matches.
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Have we gone past the date when we can loan him out to a lower league club?
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No we can tell Walsall that they "have lot of injuries" and need a loan player.
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I am guessing here, but I would think that Gardener's last deal was negotiated during more speculative times at VP.
Is he worth a similar deal?
Is he worth a pay rise?
I would suggest we can put his and Albrighton's wages to more effective use with a good first team replacement. Unless of course he is in fact the dogs doodahs, which based upon the appearances I have witnessed have no idea.
Would he (the same applies to Albrighton) be prepared to take a pay cut if they're on more than their current status merits? I would imagine that they probably would.
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I am guessing here, but I would think that Gardener's last deal was negotiated during more speculative times at VP.
Is he worth a similar deal?
Is he worth a pay rise?
I would suggest we can put his and Albrighton's wages to more effective use with a good first team replacement. Unless of course he is in fact the dogs doodahs, which based upon the appearances I have witnessed have no idea.
Would he (the same applies to Albrighton) be prepared to take a pay cut if they're on more than their current status merits? I would imagine that they probably would.
I would imagine even with a possible wage cut, he would still earn more at VP than anywhere else, given that he would still be a bit of a risk for the new club.
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I think a few have already said it he needs to go on loan and get some games under his belt!
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I really hope we give Gardner a new deal. The injuries have prevented him from showing us what he can do. He's only 21!
I think time is up for Albrighton though. He's 24 now and I don't think he'll ever be a Premier League regular.
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I think a few have already said it he needs to go on loan and get some games under his belt!
I heard that Gardner was pissed off that he wouldn't let him go on loan but never gave him a game here. It was only when Baker was injured, I think just prior to the Sheff Utd game, that he got on the bench but didn't get chance to get on. After the injury that he has had, he needs plenty of opportunities to play.
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I know he has been injured, but is he any good, I never seen him play , barring i think v Man united 2011-12
never seen him either. Thought he might get a look in this season after coming back from injury. You'd have to conclude that maybe he isn't that good if you look at the mediocrity we have in the squad around the midfield places. However, it's often a fine line between success and failure at the top level, so I'd be inclined to keep him at least for another season and see if he can stake a claim. Apart from Delph, we've got no real top drawer quality in midfield.
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I think a few have already said it he needs to go on loan and get some games under his belt!
This is the issue though - from July he'll no longer be our player to send out on loan, unless he is offered (and chooses to accept) a new contract. So if we think that he's worth persevering with them we need to commit a fair bit of money to do so.
I think I'd offer him a 2 year deal and try to arrange for a season long-loan for the first of them. Whether the club feel that it is worth risking potentially what, £1.5m in wages during that time is another story though.
Or whether he thinks he might get something better if he just chooses to sign a new contract and have the promise of a first-team slot at say, Middlesbrough or Derby.
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If the plan to keep him at the club for the rest of the season, and give him more game time as and when our position is more secure, might it be an idea to send him on loan to a club in America in the summer to get some game time? Sort of a Robbie Keane in reverse.... I doubt he'll suffer burnout having not played much and he could be ready to hit the ground rubbing next season. Just a thought...
If he stays, of course.
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I used to watch him play a fair bit in the u21's and always thought he had a lot of ability and a great attitude on the field too, I really didn't think his Villa future would be playing out like this ... I understand he's had a torrid time with injuries which can obviously really stunt his development, but does anyone really trust Lambert to develop our young home grown players?
Since he has taken over, I don't believe he has promoted a single youth player to the first team? I know Donacien got near when Ron was out a few weeks ago but he still chose to go with Lowton/Herd (the former of who clearly can't play that position) instead. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a case of "must not be doing it in training" and more so a case of Lambert choosing to stick with players who he likes even if they don't have much of a future at VP (i.e. KEA, Sylla). I really don't trust PL to spot quality in the youth, gamble on it and man manage them effectively - didn't Grealish kick up a fuss after being called a baby or whatever a month ago?
Makes no sense that he hasn't given him ANY game time. My prediction is he'll step down a level, establish himself as a goal scoring midfielder and eventually carve out a decent career in the Prem. Best of luck to the lad.
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I used to watch him play a fair bit in the u21's and always thought he had a lot of ability and a great attitude on the field too, I really didn't think his Villa future would be playing out like this ... I understand he's had a torrid time with injuries which can obviously really stunt his development, but does anyone really trust Lambert to develop our young home grown players?
Since he has taken over, I don't believe he has promoted a single youth player to the first team? I know Donacien got near when Ron was out a few weeks ago but he still chose to go with Lowton/Herd (the former of who clearly can't play that position) instead. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a case of "must not be doing it in training" and more so a case of Lambert choosing to stick with players who he likes even if they don't have much of a future at VP (i.e. KEA, Sylla). I really don't trust PL to spot quality in the youth, gamble on it and man manage them effectively - didn't Grealish kick up a fuss after being called a baby or whatever a month ago?
Makes no sense that he hasn't given him ANY game time. My prediction is he'll step down a level, establish himself as a goal scoring midfielder and eventually carve out a decent career in the Prem. Best of luck to the lad.
I fully expect Lambert to develop our homegrown talent, more so than any manager we've previously had, but if they're not up to it then what can he do?
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I used to watch him play a fair bit in the u21's and always thought he had a lot of ability and a great attitude on the field too, I really didn't think his Villa future would be playing out like this ... I understand he's had a torrid time with injuries which can obviously really stunt his development, but does anyone really trust Lambert to develop our young home grown players?
Since he has taken over, I don't believe he has promoted a single youth player to the first team? I know Donacien got near when Ron was out a few weeks ago but he still chose to go with Lowton/Herd (the former of who clearly can't play that position) instead. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a case of "must not be doing it in training" and more so a case of Lambert choosing to stick with players who he likes even if they don't have much of a future at VP (i.e. KEA, Sylla). I really don't trust PL to spot quality in the youth, gamble on it and man manage them effectively - didn't Grealish kick up a fuss after being called a baby or whatever a month ago?
Makes no sense that he hasn't given him ANY game time. My prediction is he'll step down a level, establish himself as a goal scoring midfielder and eventually carve out a decent career in the Prem. Best of luck to the lad.
I fully expect Lambert to develop our homegrown talent, more so than any manager we've previously had, but if they're not up to it then what can he do?
I don't really see why everyone thinks they must not be good enough when our u19's were crowned champions of Europe a year ago and we've got one of the worst footballing squads in a long time. I'm not expecting them to be regulars but I would be expecting a handful of them to get opportunities, and he hasn't given them that.
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I used to watch him play a fair bit in the u21's and always thought he had a lot of ability and a great attitude on the field too, I really didn't think his Villa future would be playing out like this ... I understand he's had a torrid time with injuries which can obviously really stunt his development, but does anyone really trust Lambert to develop our young home grown players?
Since he has taken over, I don't believe he has promoted a single youth player to the first team? I know Donacien got near when Ron was out a few weeks ago but he still chose to go with Lowton/Herd (the former of who clearly can't play that position) instead. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a case of "must not be doing it in training" and more so a case of Lambert choosing to stick with players who he likes even if they don't have much of a future at VP (i.e. KEA, Sylla). I really don't trust PL to spot quality in the youth, gamble on it and man manage them effectively - didn't Grealish kick up a fuss after being called a baby or whatever a month ago?
Makes no sense that he hasn't given him ANY game time. My prediction is he'll step down a level, establish himself as a goal scoring midfielder and eventually carve out a decent career in the Prem. Best of luck to the lad.
I fully expect Lambert to develop our homegrown talent, more so than any manager we've previously had, but if they're not up to it then what can he do?
I don't really see why everyone thinks they must not be good enough when our u19's were crowned champions of Europe a year ago and we've got one of the worst footballing squads in a long time. I'm not expecting them to be regulars but I would be expecting a handful of them to get opportunities, and he hasn't given them that.
There's clearly a massive gulf between playing at that level and playing in the Premier League, and the brightest talent from the group you mention is cutting his teeth at Notts County as it stands.
From the earlier group of wonder kids, Bannan, Baker, Clarke and to a lesser extent largely due to injury Albrighton have all been given plenty of opportunity and the jury's still out on all of them as to if they're up to it.
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I used to watch him play a fair bit in the u21's and always thought he had a lot of ability and a great attitude on the field too, I really didn't think his Villa future would be playing out like this ... I understand he's had a torrid time with injuries which can obviously really stunt his development, but does anyone really trust Lambert to develop our young home grown players?
Since he has taken over, I don't believe he has promoted a single youth player to the first team? I know Donacien got near when Ron was out a few weeks ago but he still chose to go with Lowton/Herd (the former of who clearly can't play that position) instead. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's a case of "must not be doing it in training" and more so a case of Lambert choosing to stick with players who he likes even if they don't have much of a future at VP (i.e. KEA, Sylla). I really don't trust PL to spot quality in the youth, gamble on it and man manage them effectively - didn't Grealish kick up a fuss after being called a baby or whatever a month ago?
Makes no sense that he hasn't given him ANY game time. My prediction is he'll step down a level, establish himself as a goal scoring midfielder and eventually carve out a decent career in the Prem. Best of luck to the lad.
I fully expect Lambert to develop our homegrown talent, more so than any manager we've previously had, but if they're not up to it then what can he do?
I don't really see why everyone thinks they must not be good enough when our u19's were crowned champions of Europe a year ago and we've got one of the worst footballing squads in a long time. I'm not expecting them to be regulars but I would be expecting a handful of them to get opportunities, and he hasn't given them that.
There's clearly a massive gulf between playing at that level and playing in the Premier League, and the brightest talent from the group you mention is cutting his teeth at Notts County as it stands.
From the earlier group of wonder kids, Bannan, Baker, Clarke and to a lesser extent largely due to injury Albrighton have all been given plenty of opportunity and the jury's still out on all of them as to if they're up to it.
I appreciate there is a big difference in the level, but that's not an argument to not give them game time and see how they get on! The group you mentioned there were all pretty much established as members of the first team squad by the time Lambert came in (although he seems to have put more faith in Baker than his predeccesors). What makes you think that he'll develop more of our own youth than any of our recent managers? He didn't have a great track record of doing that at Norwich either ...
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Callum Robinson has been on the bench a few times and had a run out in the league cup. Grealish was involved in pre-season before going out on loan. I think both are pretty firmly in his thinking. I think he's on the fence about Carruthers and Seigrist so has loaned them out to see what happens.
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It's difficult to look at anything he did at Norwich because they played in three different divisions in three seasons, but I suppose fielding the youngest Villa side in living memory is one of the things that make me feel he'll be more likely to develop our own youth.
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What happened to Drennan?
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I think that if the club rate them highly enough they should get them some first team exposure.
In most sports exposure to a higher standard at an early age means that the younger players "kick on" at a faster pace.
Perhaps we haven't been able to do this recently as our form has been average at best, making most games important.
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It's difficult to look at anything he did at Norwich because they played in three different divisions in three seasons, but I suppose fielding the youngest Villa side in living memory is one of the things that make me feel he'll be more likely to develop our own youth.
And as I said, the fact that he hasn't given a single academy player a debut in the PL would suggest that he wont. If he would rather play Matty Lowton, who I rate but struggles massively defensively, at centre back over a very promising centre half in Donacien then I would think he's not overly bothered. Fair enough he's fielded a very young team but is that not because he's fallen out with almost every senior player at the club and couldn't sign experience from elsewhere? I don't think that is an indicator of his ability to utilise our excellent youth system.
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What happened to Drennan?
On loan at Carlisle. Started and played 77 minutes last saturday, hitting the bar with a cracking shot (from the highlights show).
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It's difficult to look at anything he did at Norwich because they played in three different divisions in three seasons, but I suppose fielding the youngest Villa side in living memory is one of the things that make me feel he'll be more likely to develop our own youth.
Somebody said that he had been to all the U21 and U19 games they had attended so he's obviously interested enough to be watching them as much as possible. I imagine he has individual plans for the most talented one's that he thinks could become first team players. He'll also want to protect them as much as possible. Throwing kids in early can be the making of them but it can also be the end of them. Don't play well and they feel they've missed their chance. Play well and the fan's expectations of them are raised which can be another weight on their shoulders.
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It's difficult to look at anything he did at Norwich because they played in three different divisions in three seasons, but I suppose fielding the youngest Villa side in living memory is one of the things that make me feel he'll be more likely to develop our own youth.
And as I said, the fact that he hasn't given a single academy player a debut in the PL would suggest that he wont. If he would rather play Matty Lowton, who I rate but struggles massively defensively, at centre back over a very promising centre half in Donacien then I would think he's not overly bothered. Fair enough he's fielded a very young team but is that not because he's fallen out with almost every senior player at the club and couldn't sign experience from elsewhere? I don't think that is an indicator of his ability to utilise our excellent youth system.
Grealish will be the acid test as he's done so well while out on loan. Lambert went on about how the young players needed real experience in games that mattered. That's exactly what Grealish has got and he's excelled.
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If grealish is not part of the squad next season I would hope he could be loaned to a championship side and see how he does at that level .
I hear the Fonz excelled for coventry last night - he struggled at blackpool so maybe will need to drop down to league one .
Gardner needs game time now as his contract is ending and he needs to show what he can do .
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I think one of the problems we have and why younger players have not been brought into the team is that we never seem to have easy games. We are just as likely to lose to a bottom club as a top club. There is such a fine dividing line between losing and winning (or picking up a point). Lambert has gone into his shell and is playing it safe. The pressure on him this season is immense as you only have to come on here after we lose to see that. The safe option is to keep on rotating the same group of players. He does not seem to have the confidence to throw a young player in. I have always thought if a young player goes into the team with confidence, this carries him through the first 2 or 3 games and then you can judge how he handles it.
In Gardner's case I would start to bring him on as substitute as he could be a straight replacement for a midfield player or a replacement for a forward if we change from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2. We just need to create a few more points gap between ourselves and the teams at the bottom to give Lambert more confidence to try and evolve the team. Other than a few games recently, we have looked very stale and just going through the motions. We lack a spark and it all looks very heavy going.
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Realistically though who would you put in? Donacien is a prospect but he is very young and I think you have to be a little bit more careful throwing in players at the back because one mistake can cost you points. I agree the most promisi is Grealish by a mile though and I expect him to get a real shot to stake a claim for a first team role during pre season.
Gardner needs games. I hope he gets a chance before the end of the season and fills the undoubted potential he showed pre injuries.
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Carruthers is the one that surprises me. Didn't look out of place in his few appearances under McLeish, and yet not really a sniff since then.
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Gone on loan to Sheffield Wednesday. Hope he does well there!
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It's make or break for him now.
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A month to earn himself another chance here and contract. Over to you, Gary.
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A month to earn himself another chance here and contract. Over to you, Gary.
Has GG been out on loan before or has he never been fit enough for long enough for it to be considered ?
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Needs this but more importantly needs to stay fit now and impress there.
It's time to turn all there so called "potentially" great kids into excellent pros who can come in and improve this club.
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A month to earn himself another chance here and contract. Over to you, Gary.
Has GG been out on loan before or has he never been fit enough for long enough for it to be considered ?
He was on loan at coventry two years ago but got injured.
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Hopefully he'll do well and force himself into contention, similar to Albrighton.
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Yes, Albrighton is a clear example of a player standing at exit with his bags packed only to really work hard and turn his situation around. He has been excellent in the last couple of games and will in all likelihood earn himself a new deal.
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Gone on loan to Sheffield Wednesday. Hope he does well there!
Been on a good run results wise! Until last night!
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This is a good move. Let him build his fitness and get used to the pace of first team action. I think a good spell there might earn him a new contract with us.
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A Wednesday mate was asking about him earlier today. He was reminding me that they had Agbonlahor on loan there around 2005 and apparently he was awful for them. I told him that after his injuries I have no idea what they are getting.
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A Wednesday mate was asking about him earlier today. He was reminding me that they had Agbonlahor on loan there around 2005 and apparently he was awful for them. I told him that after his injuries I have no idea what they are getting.
I remember one villa manager saying that Agbonlahor was basically on his way out but they kept him on purely because he was such a freak of an athlete. Therefore I'm not surprised that he was bobbins at Wednesday as it's taken him a few years to go from a player purely with pace, to what he is is now, a pretty decent footballer capable of playing in a number of positions.
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Big opportunity for Gardner and I hope he shines up there - I fear if we do release him in the summer it could be a mistake and I'd like to see him earn a new deal .
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He really needs to get playing so this is good news. Good luck to him
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I hope he does well on loan he needs game time it will do him good.
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I don't think Gardner will play for Villa again.
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Gone on loan to Sheffield Wednesday. Hope he does well there!
Been on a good run results wise! Until last night!
He will be playing for SGT's old coaching team of Stuart Gray and John Deehan.
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Well, he certainly didn't produce anything in line with the acclaim some hold him. People have posted he's the next Gerrard and will captain England, based on what I do not know. File under Stefan Moore.
Gary Gardner has played for England at a World Cup and he's also scored for England U21s.
Stefan Moore has never played for England at any level.
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Stefan Moore has never played for England at any level.
Stefan Moore played for Aston Villa, which pisses over anything else he could have done.
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Gone on loan to Sheffield Wednesday. Hope he does well there!
Been on a good run results wise! Until last night!
He will be playing for SGT's old coaching team of Stuart Gray and John Deehan.
I got my first player of the year trophy presented to me by John Deehan in 1976 and was so good to a young lad. Loved watching him the following season especially in my best ever Villa team.
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I hope Gary Gardner can get some form, has been really frustrating for him no doubt and really hope it works out for him. Saw him pre-season at Luton in deep lying role and didnt think it suited him tbh.
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I reckon he'll get a new deal unless his fitness is totally shot now at prem level.
He lost a year of his career to a cruciate so I'd give him a new one year deal personally.
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I got my first player of the year trophy presented to me by John Deehan in 1976 and was so good to a young lad. Loved watching him the following season especially in my best ever Villa team.
Yep, fantastic side, with Gray, Deehan and Brian scoring for fun.
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I played against John Deehan ( Lyndon 5th Year v his school St Peters!) and although I would go on to admire him as a player I always reckoned our centre forward, Vance Burkhill,was a better player. Then again what do I know. That forward line of Deehan, Little and Gray was just awesome.
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Stefan Moore has never played for England at any level.
Stefan Moore played for Aston Villa, which pisses over anything else he could have done.
Wonderful.
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Completed 61 mins against Derby this evening before being substituted
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Gary has been offered a new deal.. I hope he signs.
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Gary has been offered a new deal.. I hope he signs.
That's good news, I'd like to see him have one more shot at making it with us.
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So if contract talks are indeed still occurring, I hope we offer Albrighton a new deal too.
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Gardner has had some very bad injuries and been really unlucky, but he now has to show he is a clas act. Didnt do it at Sheffield Wednesday it seems, hope he can come good
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Wow seven pages for Gary Gardner, he will be honored. ???
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Gary has been offered a new deal.. I hope he signs.
Sounds like he is still rated at the club then. I accept that he was injured and out on loan, but I thought he might have featured at some point during the season. It is hardly like the squad is packed with top quality midfielders.
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He is a good size too. Really hope he signs it, gets himself out on loan for 3 months start of the season and gets regular games and comes back all the stronger - a bit like Delph and Albrighton have done last couple of years.
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He reminded me a little of David Platt a while ago. Could be a good player. With the right Manager...
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Gary has been offered a new deal.. I hope he signs.
Sounds like he is still rated at the club then. I accept that he was injured and out on loan, but I thought he might have featured at some point during the season. It is hardly like the squad is packed with top quality midfielders.
I'm not sure but I think he picked up another injury after he came back off loan but I might be wrong.
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Gary has been offered a new deal.. I hope he signs.
Sounds like he is still rated at the club then. I accept that he was injured and out on loan, but I thought he might have featured at some point during the season. It is hardly like the squad is packed with top quality midfielders.
I'm not sure but I think he picked up another injury after he came back off loan but I might be wrong.
No I think you are right, was it an ankle injury?
Anyway thats the problem really, much as I would really like him to make it he is too injury prone, think I would let him go to be honest, he had half a chance on loan at Sheffield Wednesday and didn't do anything, sorry time to move on.
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Im really surprised by that, I thought the injuries had more or less finished him at this level.
Good to see though
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Oh and who is making these decisions, isn't this how we ended up with Steven Ireland!
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Oh and who is making these decisions, isn't this how we ended up with Steven Ireland!
Bit dramatic.
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Oh and who is making these decisions, isn't this how we ended up with Steven Ireland!
Eh?
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Good luck to him but he needs to make an impact in the coming season.
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Oh and who is making these decisions, isn't this how we ended up with Steven Ireland!
Well unless Randy's sacked Lambert in the last 48 hours he's still the incumbent manager and presumably has the authority to sanction this, or at least recommend it to the CEO, who as far as I'm aware is also still in his position.
Even if that wasn't the case, it's still not a deal of Ireland proportions. A guy who's come through the academy, on what his second professional contract, after 3 years blighted by injuries.
I'll be amazed if he's on more than the first contract (pure guess £5K per week) as he's got no bargaining leverage.
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Good news, what is it, twelve more months?
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Oh and who is making these decisions, isn't this how we ended up with Steven Ireland!
That totally ignores the enormous difference in the sums of money involved, though. And the fact we actually have a manager at the moment.
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I don't think there's any problem with offering a new contract to a young player regardless of the manager situation.
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Good news, what is it, twelve more months?
Two years (finally a little bit of good news) Hopefully he can make an impact now next season
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3848084,00.html
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Oh and who is making these decisions, isn't this how we ended up with Steven Ireland!
That totally ignores the enormous difference in the sums of money involved, though. And the fact we actually have a manager at the moment.
other than that exactly the same as how we ended up with a player we technically bought.
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Glad we've retained him, sensible decision. Let's hope he grasps the chance.
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It'll be tough for him, no doubt. He's already had to come back from one career-threatening injury and has to do it all over again.
He was starting to look like he could make an impact for us before the latter; his hattrick in the NextGen and his goals for England U21 were proof that he has real ability.
I think he's still a really exciting prospect. Trouble is, I think it'd be unfair to expect much from him in the next 1-2 years. He needs time and I think he deserves that.
Delph was similarly crocked and it took him a long time to regain the thread his potential had begun to sew. Now he's our best fit player and I love watching him improve in a Villa shirt.
If you're reading this, Gary, good luck mate, keep going and I hope to see you commanding the middle of Villa Park soon enough.
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It'll be tough for him, no doubt. He's already had to come back from one career-threatening injury and has to do it all over again.
He was starting to look like he could make an impact for us before the latter; his hattrick in the NextGen and his goals for England U21 were proof that he has real ability.
I think he's still a really exciting prospect. Trouble is, I think it'd be unfair to expect much from him in the next 1-2 years. He needs time and I think he deserves that.
Delph was similarly crocked and it took him a long time to regain the thread his potential had begun to sew. Now he's our best fit player and I love watching him improve in a Villa shirt.
If you're reading this, Gary, good luck mate, keep going and I hope to see you commanding the middle of Villa Park soon enough.
Superb assessment and message. What you said :-)
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It'll be tough for him, no doubt. He's already had to come back from one career-threatening injury and has to do it all over again.
He was starting to look like he could make an impact for us before the latter; his hattrick in the NextGen and his goals for England U21 were proof that he has real ability.
I think he's still a really exciting prospect. Trouble is, I think it'd be unfair to expect much from him in the next 1-2 years. He needs time and I think he deserves that.
Delph was similarly crocked and it took him a long time to regain the thread his potential had begun to sew. Now he's our best fit player and I love watching him improve in a Villa shirt.
If you're reading this, Gary, good luck mate, keep going and I hope to see you commanding the middle of Villa Park soon enough.
agree on your sentiments but performances at underage are no indicator really of success at senior level as proven numerous times at our club e.g. Moores, Fonz etc.
Thought Gary Gardner always struggled a bit physically at senior level for us. Lacked mobility and presence. Seem to recall him having a decent showing away to Wolves on the right a couple of years back, think he came on in Lambert's first game at West Ham. Not sure if he has played a league game for us since.
If we play three in midfield next season he is likely to get chances under a new manager. Very surprised if Lambert authorised this new contract as he hasnt given Gardner a sniff this season instead having the likes of Kea and Sylla getting chances ahead of him. All the best to the lad but the odds are stacked against him making a successful career in the top division at this stage of his career.
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It'll be tough for him, no doubt. He's already had to come back from one career-threatening injury and has to do it all over again.
He was starting to look like he could make an impact for us before the latter; his hattrick in the NextGen and his goals for England U21 were proof that he has real ability.
I think he's still a really exciting prospect. Trouble is, I think it'd be unfair to expect much from him in the next 1-2 years. He needs time and I think he deserves that.
Delph was similarly crocked and it took him a long time to regain the thread his potential had begun to sew. Now he's our best fit player and I love watching him improve in a Villa shirt.
If you're reading this, Gary, good luck mate, keep going and I hope to see you commanding the middle of Villa Park soon enough.
agree on your sentiments but performances at underage are no indicator really of success at senior level as proven numerous times at our club e.g. Moores, Fonz etc.
Thought Gary Gardner always struggled a bit physically at senior level for us. Lacked mobility and presence. Seem to recall him having a decent showing away to Wolves on the right a couple of years back, think he came on in Lambert's first game at West Ham. Not sure if he has played a league game for us since.
If we play three in midfield next season he is likely to get chances under a new manager. Very surprised if Lambert authorised this new contract as he hasnt given Gardner a sniff this season instead having the likes of Kea and Sylla getting chances ahead of him. All the best to the lad but the odds are stacked against him making a successful career in the top division at this stage of his career.
2 years ago most of that would've been true about Fabian Delph, who was a year older at that point than Gardner is now. GG also has 2 very good reasons why he hasn't broken through sooner and 21-22 is still a perfectly reasonable age for someone to have a breakthrough season.
As for lacking physicality, you're looking at a 19yo (at the time) being put into a very tough league, how many midfielders have come through in the premier league at that age? Ross Barkley and Jack Wilshere did, but without a year out injured, I can't think of many more, certainly not in the last 5-6 years. Jordan Henderson is a maybe, but he looked totally out of his depth for 2 years at Liverpool before getting back on track last year.
What i mean by all this is let's not write him off as not going to make it because he's nearly 22 and isn't a regular already, not many players are at that age. The club renewed his deal so they clearly see enough there to give him a bit longer to make it.
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Agree 100% on the injury stuff and comparisons to Delph
It's not his physicality id worry about though, it's his lack of pace and lack of quick feet
Hopefully that's in part injury related and he will improve there or he's not going to make it
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Good news in my opinion, especially a 2 year deal.
Year 1 - got out on loan, play loads of games, get fit, start to play instinctively again and crucially get confidence back.
Year 2 - if successful above: Offer new deal and integrate into the squad. Unsuccessful sell and try and get a few £100k for him.
Good work by the club and now it's over to Gardner to prove himself.
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Does anyone know whether he can be recalled from his loan?
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Does anyone know whether he can be recalled from his loan?
I wouldn't want to put money on it, but I don't think he can. Normally longer-term loans (Gardner's was four months) tend to involve a loan fee, and if a loan fee is involved then there is no recall option.
It runs out on January 1st though, so if Westwood is badly hurt I assume we just wouldn't renew it.
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Back from loan spell at Brighton,can he be an asset for us or will he be shipped back out on loan ?
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He was proper rank at Brighton. Looked well out of his depth in the Championship.
Despite that, I reckon he's still probably better than Cleverley so I'd give him a chance in the FA Cup and see where it goes from there.
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his deal won't be renewed. He's not progressing at all.
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I'd give him another half season loan. His injuries warrant more time
But it's not looking good
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Will not be retained at the end of the season. Free Transfer. He will end up at Coventry or somewhere like that.
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Will not be retained at the end of the season.
He's contracted until the end of next season.
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I'd play him on Sunday
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I'd play him on Sunday
Why? I don't think he did well at Brighton did he?
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He was proper rank at Brighton. Looked well out of his depth in the Championship.
Despite that, I reckon he's still probably better than Cleverley so I'd give him a chance in the FA Cup and see where it goes from there.
I'm sure he's not better than Cleverley. I know there's always a tendency to look at scape goats, but Gardner is worse than all our first team midfielders.
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Gardner was so very poor for Brighton, I saw a few games and he was ineffectual at best.
I remember thinking the same thing about Delph when he was coming back after two years of terrible injuries. I hope Gary makes the same kind of recovery that Fabian has.
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I'd play him on Sunday
Why? I don't think he did well at Brighton did he?
Brighton is a step up from us
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I'd play him on Sunday
Why? I don't think he did well at Brighton did he?
Brighton is a step up from us
Err no it's not
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David Beckham was shit at Preston. Gabby was shit at Sheffield Wed and Watford.. Loans don't always mean anything.
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David Beckham was shit at Preston. Gabby was shit at Sheffield Wed and Watford.. Loans don't always mean anything.
They don't but have you seen him play recently? He has no mobility at all, those injuries have finished him at anything close to this level. I think he could carve out a career League 1/2.
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We should move on,
"He's not the messiah ..."
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I think that it is important that he is out on loan as fitness/mobility could get better if playing regularly, playing in our stiff will not help him at all. The straw I am clinging to is Delph, who took ages to get up to speed following his injuries, so I have not completely given up hope however anything will be a bonus rather than expectation.
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He could probably do a decent job for Telford United.
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A lot of it comes down to him having confidence in himself. After any serous injury the hardest part is believing you can make it back and be better than you were before. To go through that and then pick up a 2nd serious injury and have to go through it all again is seriously tough. That we gave him 2 years instead of 1 suggests that the club think he can get his head right. The lack of mobility should resolve itself (to an extent, he was never the most mobile) if he can get that confidence back. A lot of that will come from just playing for 90 minutes and feeling himself getting fitter.
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I struggle to understand why people are writing him off when they've not seen him play yet.
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I struggle to understand why people are writing him off when they've not seen him play yet.
So why do people think he should be in our team ......has he has any good reviews when out on loan? I seem to think he usually ends up being dropped
Sorry but seems he simply is not unto standard even for a very poor Villa side
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I struggle to understand why people are writing him off when they've not seen him play yet.
Brighton fans saw him play a lot and most of them said he was terrible. Also he didn't really show anything in pre-season either.
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Midfielder Gary Gardner has moved to Nottingham Forest on loan.
The deal is until the end of this season.
Gardner's last loan away from B6 was at Brighton earlier this term.
The 22-year-old was with the Seagulls from August 2014 to January 2015.
He has spent time on loan at Coventry City and Sheffield Wednesday previously too.
Gardner is eligible for today's home clash for Forest against his former club, the Owls.
In other news, Janoi Donacien has returned to Villa following the completion of his loan at Tranmere Rovers.
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I'll be interested to see how GG plays at Forest. They're a much better side than Brighton. Not brilliant, but he may be able to express himself a little more. He's got to take this chance though.
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Forest are in appalling form
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I'm pretty sure if GG was going to break into the first team on a regular basis he would have by now.
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A few years ago i thought Gardner was going to be better than his brother. Then he had a couple of serious injuries and i don't think he has ever been the same player since.Sadly, i feel his chances of becoming a Villa regular have gone
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It can't have been great going to a Hyppia inspired (!) Brighton who were shit the whole time he was there. To then have to go to Forest managed by that utter numpty Stuart Pearce makes me think that Gary has done something wrong in a previous life.
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It can't have been great going to a Hyppia inspired (!) Brighton who were shit the whole time he was there. To then have to go to Forest managed by that utter numpty Stuart Pearce makes me think that Gary has done something wrong in a previous life.
Especially given his knee injuries.
Shit that must keen I'm Glenn Hoddle and owe you 5 pounds :'(
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I was speaking to someone connected with the noses youth team and he told me they rated him very highly, dont know how much of a recommendation that is, but i have to say, when i saw him play in the Next-Gen a few times, i did wonder what all the fuss was about (and i wasnt the only one either).
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I was speaking to someone connected with the noses youth team and he told me they rated him very highly, dont know how much of a recommendation that is, but i have to say, when i saw him play in the Next-Gen a few times, i did wonder what all the fuss was about (and i wasnt the only one either).
I think Gardner was joint top scorer in the tournament by the time we got knocked out - and he scored a match-winning hat trick against the much lauded Ajax in one of our matches! He looked more than good enough to me.
I think circumstance and injuries have held the lad back. Just imagine if we could have blooded him at a time when we had a strong squad as opposed to the car crash situation of the past few seasons, I think it would have made all the difference. If we do eventually let him go I hope he finds the mental toughness to fulfill his potential.
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Nice to hear Gardner scored for Forest today (and getting some good experience in the championship). Apparently it was a shot from distance. A goal from a midfielder - from distance?! Wow! If only...
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forest fans love him , absolutely love him
but he's doing it in the championship, so could come in handy
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Get the feeling he could be a big player for us in that division if we drop.
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Almost no back lift on the shot; remarkable.
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That's a belter of a goal, he's definitely got the ability to do well but as others have said it looks like he needs to start from deep now because he never had much pace and the injuries have made him slower so he struggles to find space higher up the pitch.
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Must have been playing rugby on there or something because I saw a line and then saw him shoot, I thought fuck me he's shot from the halfway line. Good goal though
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Must have been playing rugby on there or something because I saw a line and then saw him shoot, I thought fuck me he's shot from the halfway line. Good goal though
Yeah, was away at Reading, London Irish play there.
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I said it in the loan watch thread but I'll repeat it here, that's a fantastic strike, nonchalantly passed it into the top corner like it was the easiest thing in the world.
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Lovely strike that
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He had lots of time but that really was a lovely strike. I saw that on Saturday night but I was pissed and had forgotten it!
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His teeth look so white and he's far better looking than his gargoyle brother.
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Fantastic! I didn't know he scored again. I hope TS brings him back at the end of the season. Delighted for him after all he's been through injury wise.
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Would be great to see Gary Gardner doing well at the Villa though as has been said there is a lot of competition for that defensive midfield spot.
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That Cleverley spot will be up for grabs come May.
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That Cleverley spot will be up for grabs come May.
Although, proving me wrong, he has been better in the last 2 games.
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That Cleverley spot will be up for grabs come May.
I was going to say that I'm not so sure he'll be off now. I certainly don't think it's as nailed on as it was before TS arrived (what with Everton having such a dip in form - will Martinez even be at Everton next season?). If we do manage to stay up Sherwood will no doubt have a plan on how and who he wants to suit that plan and whether Cleverly fits that bill? Either way I'd really like Gardner back even if we're in the Championship.
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I think it would be a surprise if we didn't give him a chance here next season given his current form
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Wow, Forests keeper had a mare. Don't think Coton will be putting him on his scouting list.
Great freekick from GG. It'll be good to have another set piece option next season. I hope he makes it here as he's got quality. It's next season or bust for him really. I don't think he'll get another deal if he can't establish himself.
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Agreed tom, the 2nd is pathetic keeping.
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Not sure about Gardner's free-kick - it was straight down the middle. Shocking standard of keeping there.
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Would be great to see Gary Gardner doing well at the Villa though as has been said there is a lot of competition for that defensive midfield spot.
Since when is Gardner a defensive midfielder?
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Haven't seen him play much recently, but he doesn't look very defensive as he's spanking them in from 30yards!
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Would be great to see Gary Gardner doing well at the Villa though as has been said there is a lot of competition for that defensive midfield spot.
Since when is Gardner a defensive midfielder?
He's played there a fair amount for Forest, apparently.
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Would be great to see Gary Gardner doing well at the Villa though as has been said there is a lot of competition for that defensive midfield spot.
Since when is Gardner a defensive midfielder?
He's played there a fair amount for Forest, apparently.
Yep. As he's not that quick footed it probably suits him to play slightly deeper. I'd imagine he's not in the enforcer mould, but more a deep lying playmaker. He could be an upgrade on Westwood for us.
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It will be interesting to see whether a run of games has helped him increase his pace at all. He was desperately slow the last few times I saw him
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Would be great to see Gary Gardner doing well at the Villa though as has been said there is a lot of competition for that defensive midfield spot.
He's the new Michael Carrick don't you know.
Since when is Gardner a defensive midfielder?
He's played there a fair amount for Forest, apparently.
Yep. As he's not that quick footed it probably suits him to play slightly deeper. I'd imagine he's not in the enforcer mould, but more a deep lying playmaker. He could be an upgrade on Westwood for us.
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It will be interesting to see whether a run of games has helped him increase his pace at all. He was desperately slow the last few times I saw him
So was Barry and he had a lot of criticism about his lack of pace at one time at B6, but it isn't just about pace, awareness and a football brain can add as much to a players capability as being able to run quickly.
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It will be interesting to see whether a run of games has helped him increase his pace at all. He was desperately slow the last few times I saw him
So was Barry and he had a lot of criticism about his lack of pace at one time at B6, but it isn't just about pace, awareness and a football brain can add as much to a players capability as being able to run quickly.
Which reminds me, does anyone know why he didn't take the penalty?
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How much would better off would Everton been this season had Barry been fit?
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How much would better off would Everton been this season had Barry not been so fat?
Fixed.
*childish sniggering*
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I wonder what he will be like under Tim Sherwood ?
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It will be interesting to see whether a run of games has helped him increase his pace at all. He was desperately slow the last few times I saw him
So was Barry and he had a lot of criticism about his lack of pace at one time at B6, but it isn't just about pace, awareness and a football brain can add as much to a players capability as being able to run quickly.
One thing Barry was excellent at was getting out of tight spots with quick feet. Whether Gardner can develop that skill remains to be seen, but it was always natural to Barry. A very skilful player at close quarters.
Gardner doesn't appear to have that, but if he gains more awareness of space and using the ball quicker he should be fine. A whole season in the Championship, which can be quite frenetic, will undoubtedly help him with that.
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Well Gardner has certainly made an impression at Forest. Great to see him gets some games and some form after his injuries. Just hope he can transfer that form to us on his return. If it doesn't work out I don't think you'd get very good odds on him not returning to Forest. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32415894
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It'll be interesting to see if he can make enough of an impression on Sherwood that he can sneak his way into the final squad
If we can beat Everton and look safe, i'd definitely throw him in against Southampton and Burnley whilst he's in form
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If we can beat Everton and look safe, i'd definitely throw him in against Southampton and Burnley whilst he's in form
It's probably not worth the fine and points deduction that we would get for selecting a player that we can't use.
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Can we definitely not though? Is he of an age that he'd need to be declared in the 25? Does the loan finish once Forest season ends?
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Can we definitely not though? Is he of an age that he'd need to be declared in the 25? Does the loan finish once Forest season ends?
Yes he'd need to be declared in the 25 he was 22 at the start of the season, the loan technically finishes on June 1st but both clubs can agree to an early termination (which often happens) but that's irrelevant.
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Can we definitely not though? Is he of an age that he'd need to be declared in the 25? Does the loan finish once Forest season ends?
Yes he'd need to be declared in the 25 he was 22 at the start of the season, the loan technically finishes on June 1st but both clubs can agree to an early termination (which often happens) but that's irrelevant.
Even then, we still wouldn't be able to play him.
53.2.3 A Player whose Standard Loan expires (or terminates) on completion of his Loaning Club’s League Matches will not be eligible to play for his Parent Club (where it is a Member Club) in any remaining League or Cup Matches in that Season notwithstanding the fact that he is a Registered Player of that Club and that such expiry or termination occurs during a Transfer Window.
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Can we definitely not though? Is he of an age that he'd need to be declared in the 25? Does the loan finish once Forest season ends?
Yes he'd need to be declared in the 25 he was 22 at the start of the season, the loan technically finishes on June 1st but both clubs can agree to an early termination (which often happens) but that's irrelevant.
Even then, we still wouldn't be able to play him.
53.2.3 A Player whose Standard Loan expires (or terminates) on completion of his Loaning Club’s League Matches will not be eligible to play for his Parent Club (where it is a Member Club) in any remaining League or Cup Matches in that Season notwithstanding the fact that he is a Registered Player of that Club and that such expiry or termination occurs during a Transfer Window.
Shame he can't join up with us for the last few games. But it appears that he has picked up a knock in training http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/04/25/nottingham-forest-midfielder-gary-gardner-reveals-he-is-out-of-i/
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I hope he's able to travel with the squad and enjoy the occasion on the cup final day. Same goes with the likes of Robinson, Bennett etc.
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Would be great to see Gary Gardner doing well at the Villa though as has been said there is a lot of competition for that defensive midfield spot.
Since when is Gardner a defensive midfielder?
He's played there a fair amount for Forest, apparently.
At Forest defensive midfield is his favourite position. At Brighton he preferred an attacking midfield role. At Sheffield Wednesday he said centre half was his favourite position. At Coventry he said he had always been a goalkeeper. It's a family trait.
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Harsh. You'll be toasting him come Christmas when he bangs in a free-kick to beat the bitters.
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Could be with his bad Cruciate injuries Gardner won't have the mobility to play box-to-box midfield anymore as he did in the youth teams so might have to develop his game as a Westwood style deep lying defensive midfielder.
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Could be with his bad Cruciate injuries Gardner won't have the mobility to play box-to-box midfield anymore as he did in the youth teams so might have to develop his game as a Westwood style deep lying defensive midfielder.
Doesn't seem to have stopped Delph.
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Delph didn't do both before he was 20 though. Coming back from one is bad enough, but doing both and losing nearly 2 years of your career before you are 21 could well take it's toll. Hopefully not but there must be bit of a doubt.
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Plus Delph was always quicker and that (obviously) helps when you need to get up and down the pitch.
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This year was his chance to prove he can stay fit and show enough at a decent level to suggest he's mentally and physically capable of playing for us. His record at Forest is good enough to show that he's worth another look to see if he has recovered well enough, I hope we give him at least pre-season.
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With Forest's season over on Saturday, do you think Gary Gardner will return "home" and get a chance to play in Villa's last couple of games of the season? I reckon Tim Sherwood might give him a run out, once safety is assured.
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For crying out loud...
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For crying out loud...
HAHAHAHA!
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/rage-guy-original.png)
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That's a good idea. I wonder why nobody's mentioned it before?
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What, you all expect me to read the thread before posting? Oh... please accept my most humble apologies.
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Are we able to sign any free agents before saturdays game? I reckon we could do with Bobby Pires as Cole's looking a bit knackered. We could do with someone a little fresher.
If not we should recall Gary Gardner...
(runs and hides).
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Looks like we have a new 'why didn't Barry take the penalty' type question.
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Gards penalties will be just as good as Barry's.
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to be fair Gardner obviously isn't aware of his ineligibility himself, so i'm not sure why everyone else are expected to be so certain (we don't all have time to scrawl through 14 pages of opinions)
'Speaking to Forest Player, Gardner admitted that he is targeting a place in Tim Sherwood’s squad for the FA Cup Final, despite still being on loan with Nottingham Forest.
“I still have to maintain my fitness and go back to Villa and impress another new gaffer," the young midfielder said. "I mean that’s part of football.
“And hopefully I can go back there and impress him, and be involved in the cup final.”'
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Poor Gary will be gutted when he reads this thread.
Perhaps he'll post something like 'so can I come back and play then or not?'
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Gary Gardner has today signed a new three year deal with the club
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Gary Gardner has today signed a new three year deal with the club
Blimey. We're chucking contracts about at the moment.
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Really feel for GG, so highly rated as a youngster and then progress wrecked by those injuries. He's 23 now and still yet to make an impression, I really hope i'm wrong but i'm doubtful he'll make it with us. Another loan spell coming up for him I expect.
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Brilliant news.
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blimey good for Gary. There's a player there if he can only stay healthy for a bit (for us). Because when he has a run of games at Forest he was looking every bit the player we had hoped to see emerge from our set up. Also, is what happens when the club employs someone to look after contracts? Hendrik is certainly earning his corn right now.
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Huh. Either he's done something Sherwood likes in the pre-season, or they're just making it an easier decision as to whether or not to farm him out on loan again.
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Another one I think is meh!
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I thought he'd signed one not long back. Anyway, a bit surprised by this to be honest.
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underwhelmed.
nothing against the kid but injury prone and nothing special whenever ive watched him. cant see him making the bench and no point loaning him out
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great
this kid is one for the future
delighted we have tied down this promising young 23 year old lad till he is 26
he'll never get a regular place in the side
but at least he wont be short of money
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great
this kid is one for the future
delighted we have tied down this promising young 23 year old lad till he is 26
he'll never get a regular place in the side
but at least he wont be short of money
???
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I thought he'd signed one not long back. Anyway, a bit surprised by this to be honest.
Very surprised TBH.
I hope to be even more surprised when he holds down a regular starting slot, on merit.
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It is worth signing him just to piss his brother off.
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I didn't see that one coming!
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It is worth signing him just to piss his brother off.
Ha Ha.
"Gary Gardner has great potential which we have yet to see, but, with him signing this new contract it's a great shot in the arm for pissing his brother off."
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It is worth signing him just to piss his brother off.
Ha Ha.
"Gary Gardner has great potential which we have yet to see, but, with him signing this new contract it's a great shot in the arm for pissing his brother off."
To be fair, it is a vastly underrated entertainment form, pissing of the lesser brain celled Gardner.
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Good idea I reckon. While there are obvious doubts, I don't think we should take the risk he fulfills his potential just as his contract runs out. If he can have a really good season (on loan at Fprest I suspect) we can take advantage in a year's time by either selling him or getting him in our team.
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I think he would have been out on loan if he were running down the last year of a contract, but after signing a new deal, I think TS is more likely to keep him around when the inevitable injuries and suspensions occur.
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A bit of a surprise but we are going to need numbers as the season progresses.
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I'm very surprised. I thought he was fortunate after getting his last extension. Fair play to the club in showing faith because this is often a cruel business. GG deserves a bit of luck though it must be said. I hope he gets a chance to shine. He could be a useful backup this season. It saves us having to dip into the transfer market again.
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Good idea I reckon. While there are obvious doubts, I don't think we should take the risk he fulfills his potential just as his contract runs out. If he can have a really good season (on loan at Fprest I suspect) we can take advantage in a year's time by either selling him or getting him in our team.
Agreed.
Plus it's great that he wants to stay at Villa unlike his shitty sibling.
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Sorry nothing against Gardner but I really don't believe he will either make it at the level we need ......
This I believe is partly down to him being injury prone but on the odd time we have seen him he has never looked anything special
Having said the above I hope he proves both me and many others wrong
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Whilst its a surprise, I don't think many of us have seen enough of GG to make a decision on him one way or another particularly at PL level. The contract offer must be a sound business decision...worst case scenario is that we'd get back what we pay him in wages should we decide to sell within the next few years, or if he proves he's good enough then we'll see his value on the pitch, we wont need to spend a fortune on another player and we'll be quids in.
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It is worth signing him just to piss his brother off.
Is his brother still playing?
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He really needs to show he's actually got something after those injuries.
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It is worth signing him just to piss his brother off.
Is his brother still playing?
Who? Ricardo?
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I am surprised. From what I have seen of him last season he is not going to make it as a premier league footballer. I don't enjoy saying that as he seems like a really decent guy. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
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Great news! I really hope he can kick on now. And at least if he doesn't break into the team we will have some money coming in from a potential sale as he's not let his contract run down- that is such a nasty habit. Glad we seem to be breaking it now.
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Yeah, I'm good with this, give him a year to stay fit and see if he can step up a level (take into account he's at a similar age to the year the snake had his breakthrough year and the injuries to both means he serves as the best recent comparison). If he doesn't look like doing so we find another loan to a championship side for him in Jan and then hopefully we get a couple of million for him next summer.
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
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One of the big drawbacks I have with Gary is he looks slow enough to play for the Albion.
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
He played a part in the Weimann goal against Fulham that was vital, so he's contributed something.
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
Mainly because he's been unfortunate enough to do both his cruciate ligaments one after the other, wrecking the years where he'd normally be allowing us to make a sensible judgement.
Apparently he did well at Forest last season. Sherwood's been quick enough to get rid of the likes of Weimann and Lowton, so presumably has seen something that makes him think he's worth investing some time in.
How about giving him the chance he hasn't had yet.
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Maybe his injuries were a blessing in disguise, he missed out on being mis-managed by TSM2 and instead of being moved on, now has a chance to shine in the new Villa era.
I really think he is/was a great player, more naturally gifted than a lot of midfielders we have seen in recent years. Let's hope TS has seen the potential we know he has and will be able to man manage the best out of him.
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
That is very harsh. He's lost whole seasons to terrible injuries, but managed to pull himself back in contention and by all accounts, a successful period at Nottingham Forest. I give him great credit for not giving up his dream.
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One of the big drawbacks I have with Gary is he looks slow enough to play for the Albion.
Yah. I saw him a few times last season on telly over here where they show Championship games. he was very very slow. Brilliant at set pieces though
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
That's the spirit.
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
Hasn't he done his cruciate ligament twice?
That's a year out injury.
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One of the big drawbacks I have with Gary is he looks slow enough to play for the Albion.
Yah. I saw him a few times last season on telly over here where they show Championship games. he was very very slow. Brilliant at set pieces though
One of the best centre midfielders I ever saw was Grahame Souness and he was hardly a whippet, Cowans and Mortimer were lively but not sprinters. Gareth Barry weren't too bad either
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I don't understand anyone who says they are 'underwhelmed' by this. I'm not sure how er... whelmed you can be about a young player who has had most of the key development years hampered by injury. Friends of mine who support Forest rave about him and he's obviously shown enough to convince Sherwood and his staff that he is worth giving a chance to. Good luck to him.
underwhelmed because he is 23 and has so far in his career he has contributed sod all
That's the spirit.
Ha! I'm appropriately whelmed by this whelming development.
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One of the big drawbacks I have with Gary is he looks slow enough to play for the Albion.
Yah. I saw him a few times last season on telly over here where they show Championship games. he was very very slow. Brilliant at set pieces though
One of the best centre midfielders I ever saw was Grahame Souness and he was hardly a whippet, Cowans and Mortimer were lively but not sprinters. Gareth Barry weren't too bad either
True true. Lets hope Gary can get there. Obviously I want him to succeed.
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One of the big drawbacks I have with Gary is he looks slow enough to play for the Albion.
Yah. I saw him a few times last season on telly over here where they show Championship games. he was very very slow. Brilliant at set pieces though
One of the best centre midfielders I ever saw was Grahame Souness and he was hardly a whippet, Cowans and Mortimer were lively but not sprinters. Gareth Barry weren't too bad either
True true. Lets hope Gary can get there. Obviously I want him to succeed.
Well Forest fans raved about him last season, different to the premiership I know, but it wasn't long ago that it was being mentioned that he was better than Wilshere
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One of the the very good things TS has done is building a team of advisors including but not purely dependent on the old guard. In the current context where we need to shift players out and GG's contract is expiring within a year, they clearly believe he is worth a shot.
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Totally agree, but TS will have seen the lad has potential and it is a shame that awful challenge at Swindon has hampered him again. I am not saying he will be a world beater but the lad obviously has talent
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Anyone thinking of this sort of contract extension negatively is actively looking for reason to complain. That must be tiring.
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Any skillful Villa youth product gets cut plenty of slack as far as I'm concerned. Anyone know how his fitness is at the moment?
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Looks to me like we're protecting an investment.
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Those three words "protecting an investment" sum it up perfectly for me. Like us taking the long view with Nathan Baker it feels like the long overdue fresh air of pragmatic forward planning is blowing away the stink of bullying and bomb squaddery.
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Looks to me like we're protecting an investment.
I agree. My guess is this will allow us to send him on loan for another whole season (with the loan club paying the vast majority of his wages - i.e. costing us nothing). He'll then have two year to break through into our team. At any point we can sell and make a profit.
The alternative was that he could leave for nothing at the end of this season and I think his loan at Forrest suggested he is potentilly good enough that we could not take that risk both financially and on footballing terms.
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He really needs to show he's actually got something after those injuries.
He was very impressive at Nottingham Forest last season. Dougie Freedman is trying to re-sign him and the fans absolutely loved him.
Don't worry he's still got it.
He was playing deeper if i recall correctly, as opposed to box to box. Probably suits him with the pace issue.
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Looks to me like we're protecting an investment.
I agree. My guess is this will allow us to send him on loan for another whole season (with the loan club paying the vast majority of his wages - i.e. costing us nothing). He'll then have two year to break through into our team. At any point we can sell and make a profit.
The alternative was that he could leave for nothing at the end of this season and I think his loan at Forrest suggested he is potentilly good enough that we could not take that risk both financially and on footballing terms.
Exactly. He's probably on around £15 grand a week maximum; if he shows anything for us or on loan this season he'll be an asset, if not he can always be sold next summer.
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He was playing deeper if i recall correctly, as opposed to box to box. Probably suits him with the pace issue.
Agree. Theoretically that position should still allow him to take long shots and free kicks so that aspect should not suffer however it will mitigate the pace thing.
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In a similar way, I see Spurs have just given Pritchard a 3 year deal today/yesterday.
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i know he has been unlucky with his cruciate but what is his current fitness status?
playing well for a team that was what tenth in the championship tells you just that, he did ok in the championship. oh and he played well against fulham.
its always jam tomorrow, if he can stay fit, if gabby could regain his form from 5 years ago, if nzog could regain his one good season form.
i fully expect gardner to go down the albrighton, bannan, lihaj, herd, hogg, lowry, weimann route
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Yes earning decent living
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i know he has been unlucky with his cruciate but what is his current fitness status?
playing well for a team that was what tenth in the championship tells you just that, he did ok in the championship. oh and he played well against fulham.
its always jam tomorrow, if he can stay fit, if gabby could regain his form from 5 years ago, if nzog could regain his one good season form.
i fully expect gardner to go down the albrighton, bannan, lihaj, herd, hogg, lowry, weimann route
Albrighton is starring at the top of the table ;)
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Looks a very rash move selling albrightin now, doesn't it? Similarly the lad that went to Wales whittingham was it?
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Looks a very rash move selling albrightin now, doesn't it? Similarly the lad that went to Wales whittingham was it?
To be honest I'd still take Grealish, Traore, and Sinclair in his place on match day.
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Maybe, but it would have been good to see if Sherwood could have got him back to his best. My memory isn't the best, but as I recall he seemed to be one of our better players in that spell of utter dross under lambert. Maybe Sherwood could have got the kind of improvement out of him that the likes of cleverly and Delph showed. Bye the bye now anyway. I still think we should have kept him.
I saw traores goal that someone posted on here- it looked a cracking run, but seemed fortunate to me that the shot went in- shit goalkeeping? One of those every couple of games would be very welcome though this season to make up for losing benteke.
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i fully expect gardner to go down the albrighton, bannan, lihaj, herd, hogg, lowry, weimann route
And if he does and because of this new contract we get say, £3m for him a la Weimann, rather than nothing a la Albrighton then that makes this a good thing, right?
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i fully expect gardner to go down the albrighton, bannan, lihaj, herd, hogg, lowry, weimann route
And if he does and because of this new contract we get say, £3m for him a la Weimann, rather than nothing a la Albrighton then that makes this a good thing, right?
if we get 3 million?
because weimanm was an establishdmd albeit shit pl player and we got what 1.5 million
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i fully expect gardner to go down the albrighton, bannan, lihaj, herd, hogg, lowry, weimann route
And if he does and because of this new contract we get say, £3m for him a la Weimann, rather than nothing a la Albrighton then that makes this a good thing, right?
if we get 3 million?
because weimanm was an establishdmd albeit shit pl player and we got what 1.5 million
£2.75m. With his contract with us ending at the end of this season.
Whatever any hypothetical future transfer fee for Gardner might be, do you think that it will be more or less than the £0 that we would get if his contract just expires?
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The opportunity cost being the extra (guessing 5k * 52 weeks) 250k per year. I was surprised when I read the news but it's a good bit of business by the club.
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Gards will get a chance if not success then will be just as good as brother Gary but playing prem footy regular
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The new contracts for the likes of baker and Gardner are just good business and footballing sense IMO. It's win-win. Either they fail to progress and we sell them at a profit, or they do progress and they remain contracted to us. This has been common-practice at clubs like Spurs for ages now, and it's good to see us finally start to look after our assets in this sense.
People seem to write footballers-off at the top level if they're not outstanding by the time they're 21. Look at Ryan Mason - 5 separate loan-spells in the lower leagues before breaking into the Spurs team at 24, and now on the door-step of the England squad. Gardner's injuries have held-him back massively, but we'd be crazy to let him go for free and then watch him develop into a Premiership player with somebody else, without us even getting a fee for him.
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Gards will get a chance if not success then will be just as good as brother Gary but playing prem footy regular
What does that actually mean?
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Looks a very rash move selling albrightin now, doesn't it? Similarly the lad that went to Wales whittingham was it?
To be honest I'd still take Grealish, Traore, and Sinclair in his place on match day.
You need to change your username, Villacunt is offensive.
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underwhelmed.
nothing against the kid but injury prone and nothing special whenever ive watched him. cant see him making the bench and no point loaning him out
if you've only ever seen him play for the first team, then you've never seem him play in his preferred position of centre midfield where he looked a cut above anyone else on the pitch in the NextGen games. Needs a long injury free run either with us or out on loan
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underwhelmed.
nothing against the kid but injury prone and nothing special whenever ive watched him. cant see him making the bench and no point loaning him out
if you've only ever seen him play for the first team, then you've never seem him play in his preferred position of centre midfield where he looked a cut above anyone else on the pitch in the NextGen games. Needs a long injury free run either with us or out on loan
wasn't the NextGen stuff after his first knee reconstruction and before his second one? Not uncommon for players to regain their athleticism after one major knee injury but I suspect it's more dicey after the second one. Certainly, all the reports seem to suggest that he's slowed down, which makes playing a more dynamic central midfield role difficult.
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Needs a chance after his form at forest
He does look painfully slow though.
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Gards will get a chance if not success then will be just as good as brother Gary but playing prem footy regular
What does that actually mean?
It means fellow that GG will have opportunity for 1st team involvement like craig and mark albrighton. And if not works out then i predict hel go on to have a succesfful career in premier league with another club at a better success then brother gary. Basically he wont be playing for blues or baggies!!
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Brum Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-midfielder-shown-what-10297068#ICID=ios_BMNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Twitter)
Aston Villa midfielder has shown me what a fantastic footballer he is, says Tim Sherwood
The 23-year-old midfielder could be set of a recall in the coming weeks after recovering from injury
17:00, 20 Oct 2015
Updated 20:16, 20 Oct 2015
By Gregg Evans
Gary Gardner is pushing for a first-team recall after impressing boss Tim Sherwood in training.
The 23-year-old has shaken off an ankle injury sustained in the pre-season win over Swindon Town and is close to reaching full fitness.
Villa rewarded Gardner with a new contract this summer after he proved his worth on loan in the Championship last season.
And now Sherwood is seriously considering naming him in the squad in the coming weeks should his recovery continue as expected.
“He’s shown me what a fantastic footballer he is since he’s re-joined the group (in training) and he’s got every chance of featuring,” said Sherwood.
Those words have pleased the Solihull-born star who is determined to make up for lost time this year.
Last season he enjoyed spells at Brighton and Nottingham Forest and it was his form at the City Ground that particularly caught Sherwood’s eye.
The Villa boss watched Gardner score four goals in 18 appearances which prompted him to take a closer look at the middle man on the pre-season tour of Portugal.
A place in the squad was as good as guaranteed until a horror tackle sidelined him for two months.
“It’s been eight weeks now so I’m starting to forget about it,” Gardner told the Birmingham Mail.
“The manager is one of the best I’ve ever worked with and he’s said I’ll get my chance and I believe him.
“You have got to have trust in the managers these days
“I think he’s been fair to a lot of the players here.
“I have to work hard, it’s up to me. I believe that I do work hard and hopefully my chance will come.”
Gardner will compete with Ashley Westwood, Idrissa Gana and Jordan Veretout for a space in the middle of the park.
His ability to score goals and create from set pieces will further enhance his chances and he’s determined to win a place in the team on merit rather than because of a drop of form elsewhere.
“I want to come back into a winning team,” Gardner said.
“I wouldn’t want anyone to do bad, I want the team to do well.
“The talent here is very high. It’s just not going our way at the minute.
“I want to be kept on my toes and earn my place.
“I want to be there on merit. I don’t want to be there because the other players aren’t performing.
“We’ve got a lot of talent here and hopefully I can add to that.”
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Might aswell try him .
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Gardner makes Gestede look quick. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him having the attributes to make it as a Premier standard centre mid.
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Could he be any worse than Westwood?
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Could he be any worse than Westwood?
Not comparable really as different players . Unless we try GG as a DCM .
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Could he be any worse than Westwood?
Not comparable really as different players . Unless we try GG as a DCM .
Isn't that where Forest played him?
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surely that article means Gardner will never again play for the club while Sherwood is manager.
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He'll get his chance........ at Blose unfortunately.
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He'll get his chance........ at Blose unfortunately.
Next year in the Prem whilst we're with The Chumps.
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Could he be any worse than Westwood?
Not comparable really as different players . Unless we try GG as a DCM .
Isn't that where Forest played him?
I believe so. I think it might be his best position too as this position would allow him to shoot from distance (in my opinion his main strength) but mitigates against his main weakness (mobility).
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Didn't realise he's 23, make or break for him really this season.
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He'll get his chance........ at Blose unfortunately.
Next year in the Prem whilst we're with The Chumps.
Blimey. Even if we do go down, I doubt they can keep this run of form up with one of the worst squads in the Championship. Their manager is doing very well, but I'd be astonished if they keep it up. Glass well and truly half empty?
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My knees are worse than Gardner's and I'm about twice his age but if Sherwood is prepared to let me train and be judged alongside our squad I reckon I would look worth a chance.
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Funny article in the Graun today Damo about a guy who wrote to Howard Kendall in 1982 saying they were worst everton side he's ever seen and ratcliffe was the shittest player ever at Goodison! He offered his services and Kendall wrote back to him offering him a trial, the offer was duly taken up, the guy disgraced himself. Kendall afterwards offered him away tickets at arsenal (season ticket holder), then took him to dinner and when he was walking away said something like: see, we do try our best. Everton then embarked on probably the most successful period in the club's history...
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The Forest fans are very keen to keep our Gary. He must be doing something right at Championship level so it's worth remembering he's ours!
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The Forest fans are very keen to keep our Gary. He must be doing something right at Championship level so it's worth remembering he's ours!
I've seen him play in three televised games and thought he was consistently poor in all three
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Big season for him. He's finally going to have a good chance to nail down a spot in our midfield. I hope he makes it.
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Big season for him. He's finally going to have a good chance to nail down a spot in our midfield. I hope he makes it.
I feel like I've read posts along these lines for the past 5 years.
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Big season for him. He's finally going to have a good chance to nail down a spot in our midfield. I hope he makes it.
I feel like I've read posts along these lines for the past 5 years.
Were it not for so many injuries I think things would have been so different. He's due some luck and he's played a consistently this year and got plenty of games under his belt. This is his last chance.
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at 1:16, Gardner's goal yesterday
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Not has that good a season this year.
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The Forest fans are very keen to keep our Gary. He must be doing something right at Championship level so it's worth remembering he's ours!
I thought we gave him a one year contract last summer, so he'll be free to join whoever wants him most.
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The Forest fans are very keen to keep our Gary. He must be doing something right at Championship level so it's worth remembering he's ours!
I thought we gave him a one year contract last summer, so he'll be free to join whoever wants him most.
It was a two year deal I think.
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So if he were Forest's player would anyone think him a good signing in our bid to come back?
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So if he were Forest's player would anyone think him a good signing in our bid to come back?
I'd be thinking why do we want to sign another slow, injury prone player.
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So if he were Forest's player would anyone think him a good signing in our bid to come back?
Perhaps not, but that would mean paying out another transfer fee. In this case, given that we aren't going to pay to replace every player in the squad, this is a competent player with a decent attitude who already belongs to us.
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Big season for him. He's finally going to have a good chance to nail down a spot in our midfield. I hope he makes it.
I feel like I've read posts along these lines for the past 5 years.
this time next year rodney
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Why is he always injured for us? It shows that not only is a valuable player when fit but that he's operating at a high level in the Championship tells you a little about the quality there.
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Could he be any worse than Westwood?
Not comparable really as different players . Unless we try GG as a DCM .
Isn't that where Forest played him?
no they play him in the hole on his own
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Why is he always injured for us? It shows that not only is a valuable player when fit but that he's operating at a high level in the Championship tells you a little about the quality there.
Our injury record since O Neill left has been dire too. Sometimes I wonder if Vinnie Jones isn't stood by the gates of Bodymoor with a baseball bat, crippling any player not quick enough to run away from him.
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Ideally, he and Westwood will be cover - their attributes suit that role anyway, in the sense that you can plug them in for stretches and they'll do alright/
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Could he be any worse than Westwood?
Not comparable really as different players . Unless we try GG as a DCM .
Isn't that where Forest played him?
no they play him in the hole on his own
Oh dear that is inviting the Mick McCarthy video again!
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I think a lot of youth team watchers still think Gardner plays as a box to box midfielder, I think the injuries have knackered him in that regard.
At Forest he's certainly someone who sits deep now so he is comparable to Westwood.
Big thing for me is in all his loan spells he scores a few goals, we have hardly anyone who scores from us from central midfield ever it seems so for that alone Gardner will be a good option next season and should be given starts for sure.
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I think a lot of youth team watchers still think Gardner plays as a box to box midfielder, I think the injuries have knackered him in that regard.
At Forest he's certainly someone who sits deep now so he is comparable to Westwood.
Big thing for me is in all his loan spells he scores a few goals, we have hardly anyone who scores from us from central midfield ever it seems so for that alone Gardner will be a good option next season and should be given starts for sure.
Agree with that he won't be up and down as he would have been injury free. Can't wait to see him back in a Villa shirt and Jack Grealish can do most of Gary's running
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He could probably play the role I believe they were looking to play Sanchez, sat in front of the back four and with the ball playing defenders we have not got in defense he may be useful there next season.
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I get the feeling that some people do not want to give Gardner a chance to show whether he is good enough or not.
We should be getting him back for preseason and the start of the season. If he is not showing anything, we could sell him at the end of the transfer window but at least give him a chance. We are not that well off that we can afford to pass up a chance on a player that seems to be starting to get a consistent run and getting his confidence back after being out for so long.
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Has he made any impact pre season?
I have not heard any positive news about him .....
Fear he will never make it at top Championship level despite the numerous Villa fans seeming to think how good he is .........
Surely all we have seen is an injury prone player who when played did not stand out
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Has he made any impact pre season?
I have not heard any positive news about him .....
Fear he will never make it at top Championship level despite the numerous Villa fans seeming to think how good he is .........
Surely all we have seen is an injury prone player who when played did not stand out
He did well at Forest in this division so I think it's more a case of if he fits in with what RDM wants? But you're right if he's stayin' it's time for him to deliver, fingers crossed he will do. I know I'm rooting for him.
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Has he made any impact pre season?
I have not heard any positive news about him .....
Fear he will never make it at top Championship level despite the numerous Villa fans seeming to think how good he is .........
Surely all we have seen is an injury prone player who when played did not stand out
He is vastly more experienced at championship level than Tshibola is.
He needs to be given a chance. If he can't make an impact at this level then yes release him.
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He was decent last night when he came on at Bristol Rovers, though not spectacular. Gueye was probably more effective in what he does, i.e. breaking up the possession of the opposition.
Tish looked good - though an element of that might be my hope he is a real find.
I've seen that Grealish has got some good reviews and no question they couldn't get the ball off him if they were still trying now, though I'm still uncertain there is enough from him in terms of chances created.
Hardly the most telling examination, but Rovers sat back and we could get the ball to the edge of the box at will and then we struggled to create clear-cut chances.
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This is THE season for Gary. Make or break. Hopefully, he comes good as there is definitely a player in there somewhere.
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This is THE season for Gary. Make or break. Hopefully, he comes good as there is definitely a player in there somewhere.
Heard this before
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This is THE season for Gary. Make or break. Hopefully, he comes good as there is definitely a player in there somewhere.
Heard this before
Yes but successive managers have loaned him out, rather than have him as part of the squad. Too much negative thinking has got us where we are now. Successive managers have taken the easy option.
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But does it not appear that recent managers have all been in agreement that while a fair player he is unlikely to succeed even at the top level of the Championship?
I have never understood why so many rate him so highly from our fans when I have never seen him do anything of note
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This is THE season for Gary. Make or break. Hopefully, he comes good as there is definitely a player in there somewhere.
Heard this before
Yes but successive managers have loaned him out, rather than have him as part of the squad. Too much negative thinking has got us where we are now. Successive managers have taken the easy option.
Oh, that's what it is, thanks for clearing that up for me
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He seemed to always get injured at the most inconvenient time. This may be the first time (touch wood) that he will have got through to this point in pre season with us relatively unscathed. And it's usually something serious too and by the time he came back he got farmed out. Hopefully he can stay fit and play well for us in a division that we know he has played well in. Both him and Traore need a solid run of games to get their fitness up because it is their overall lack of it that gets them in trouble.
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He was decent last night when he came on at Bristol Rovers, though not spectacular. Gueye was probably more effective in what he does, i.e. breaking up the possession of the opposition.
Apart from getting turned too easily in the build up to their goal and sticking a free kick into the wall I don't really remember him doing anything.
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This is THE season for Gary. Make or break. Hopefully, he comes good as there is definitely a player in there somewhere.
Heard this before
Yes but successive managers have loaned him out, rather than have him as part of the squad. Too much negative thinking has got us where we are now. Successive managers have taken the easy option.
Think Sherwood was going to use him in the squad last season until that idiot Swindon player in the preseason friendly thought he was Claudio Gentile & wiped him out for 3 months+
There's def a player in there but this is his last year as he'll be in his mid twenties by then
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I think his time is past sadly. He can take a decent deadball but apart form that... well not much. Not sure we can afford to add yet another poor midfielder to our squad.
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But does it not appear that recent managers have all been in agreement that while a fair player he is unlikely to succeed even at the top level of the Championship?
Not from my perspective, I think that the managers felt he was not good enough, at the time, and thought he would improve more and quicker by playing regularly in the championship. We were a league higher at the time and had better alternatives too.
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Better alternatives?? Westwood gets in above him every game with different managers. god knows what they see on the training ground
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I fear we saw just what Gardner offers today ....... other than his rugby tackle what did he actually do?
So to all the fans who believe he has been treated harshly...... well he made Bacuna looks world class today let alone Champions League
Sorry GG but not unto the standard we need
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Didn't look fully fit, would be tempted to replace him with Tshibola next league game.
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Not giving up on him but he was very poor today.
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not good enough , off load him to walsall
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I fear we saw just what Gardner offers today ....... other than his rugby tackle what did he actually do?
So to all the fans who believe he has been treated harshly...... well he made Bacuna looks world class today let alone Champions League
Sorry GG but not unto the standard we need
Tbf the rugby tackle was bought by the wednesday player who saw there were few options ahead checked his run to draw the foul. He didnt have a great game but you can't judge him until he's had a decent run in the side.
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I fear we saw just what Gardner offers today ....... other than his rugby tackle what did he actually do?
So to all the fans who believe he has been treated harshly...... well he made Bacuna looks world class today let alone Champions League
Sorry GG but not unto the standard we need
Tbf the rugby tackle was bought by the wednesday player who saw there were few options ahead checked his run to draw the foul. He didnt have a great game but you can't judge him until he's had a decent run in the side.
Which would be OK if he could run faster than me.
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Trust football fans more than the media - I know a lot of forest fans and they all wanted him back.
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Not got the legs to play as a two.in our midfield.
Very poor today.
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Off to Notts Forest on a free very shortly.
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Should never be in a two, hasn't got the legs. Not a good game today but i'll not be writing him off anytime soon based on one match
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Not good enough.
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Shame he has had those injuries when he was younger, stopped any progress. He's never gonna reach the heights that his brother has, which is pretty sad.
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It's not over for him, but today was pretty much the same set of shortcomings I've always seen in him
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I'd say "probably not good enough" ... But it was only one game. Westwood certainly didn't eclipse him.
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Westwood was definitely better than Gardner today. Definitely
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Can't play in a two man midfield, pretty sure at Forest and elsewhere he's played in 4-3-3.
He just dosen't have the mobility after the injuries.
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Is he going to be put in the drawer with alot of our players, that when they are not in a Villa shirt solves our problems, when they are do not.
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Woodhall's Theorem at work again Kuwait. The less you see a player the better he gets.
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I just don't see what he actually offers, if he wasn't a local lad he wouldn't be given the leeway he is afforded.
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Another of those players we have that aren't particularly good at anything.
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He didn't do a lot yesterday but I would like to see a little more of him before totally writing him off.
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i'm sure people have been saying that or something similar for the last three or four years.
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Woodhall's Theorem at work again Kuwait. The less you see a player the better he gets.
Same with Joe Bennett. Fans calling for him to replace the inept Cissokho are in for a shock. Bennett is certainly the worst fullback and perhaps the most out of his depth footballer I've ever seen in a Villa shirt. I certainly don't want him anywhere near our first team again.
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Woodhall's Theorem at work again Kuwait. The less you see a player the better he gets.
Same with Joe Bennett. Fans calling for him to replace the inept Cissokho are in for a shock. Bennett is certainly the worst fullback and perhaps the most out of his depth footballer I've ever seen in a Villa shirt. I certainly don't want him anywhere near our first team again.
When did you last see him play?
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Woodhall's Theorem at work again Kuwait. The less you see a player the better he gets.
Same with Joe Bennett. Fans calling for him to replace the inept Cissokho are in for a shock. Bennett is certainly the worst fullback and perhaps the most out of his depth footballer I've ever seen in a Villa shirt. I certainly don't want him anywhere near our first team again.
When did you last see him play?
Why does that make a difference? He couldn't get in the Bournemouth squad or Sheff Wed team last season and the year before he played in a terrible Brighton team that just stayed up. What's to suggest to anyone he's suddenly gotten any better, no one else seems to have thought otherwise.
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Woodhall's Theorem at work again Kuwait. The less you see a player the better he gets.
Same with Joe Bennett. Fans calling for him to replace the inept Cissokho are in for a shock. Bennett is certainly the worst fullback and perhaps the most out of his depth footballer I've ever seen in a Villa shirt. I certainly don't want him anywhere near our first team again.
When did you last see him play?
Last time I saw him play for Villa. I doubt if he's got any better either considering he barely got a game out on loan last season. He's bloody hopeless.
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You were at Cambridge then SH. You would have seen him play well then.
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I'm an admirer of Gardner's talent from his youth team days but he was poor yesterday, he really should have grabbed that slot and made it his. He didn't. I looked at the team sheet and thought we lacked mobility in the middle.
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You were at Cambridge then SH. You would have seen him play well then.
I'm sure he's up to the level of Division 4, in a friendly, but thankfully we don't play that low down the ladder.
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I thought he looked decent at stourport but that's a whole different world to the championship. Who knows though, he might get a game on Wednesday and it's up to him to impress.
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I see that Division 4 team you sneer at quite a lot and the week before we blew them away without breaking sweat they were the better team against Ipswich who were lucky to get a 1-1 draw. Yes, the very same Ipswich we will be playing this season.
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You were at Cambridge then SH. You would have seen him play well then.
I'm not interested in friendlies only the real thing. He's never cut it at PL and barely got a game out on loan last season in the Championship. That should tell you everything, he's not good enough for Villa. Signing this type of player over the last 6 seasons contributed to our decline and the sooner we rid the club of them the better.
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I think it's now or never this season for Gary Gardner, but I'd hesitate to write him off on the first weekend of competitive matches. Hopefully he improves.
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I'm an admirer of Gardner's talent from his youth team days but he was poor yesterday, he really should have grabbed that slot and made it his. He didn't. I looked at the team sheet and thought we lacked mobility in the middle.
When he was in the youth team Gary was a good player but even then did not have a lot of pace. However his ability to find space, control the ball and make decent passes seemingly combined with a good football brain made him generally look better than the opposition. Unfortunately as he has moved up the age level, combined with injuries, it appears his lack of pace and mobility are becoming more and more of a handicap. He has had a full pre-season this year but still seemed to be just that bit too slow to intercept/make a decent tackle. This together with the helter skelter of the midfield area in this league to my mind seems as if we will not be seeing him very often.
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I think we've definitely found our scapegoat of the year winner.
Nobody seems to be highlighting a player bought for £12m last week who couldn't get a corner past the first defender yesterday and missed a one on one that Adam Peaty's Nan would have stuck away - jury definitely out on Ross 'the goal machine' McCormack.
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Bloody hell it's just one game.
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I think we've definitely found our scapegoat of the year winner.
Nobody seems to be highlighting a player bought for £12m last week who couldn't get a corner past the first defender yesterday and missed a one on one that Adam Peaty's Nan would have stuck away - jury definitely out on Ross 'the goal machine' McCormack.
After one game, how ridiculous that post is.
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Bloody hell it's just one game.
Exactly - lay off Gary Gardner and give him a break is all I'm saying
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BR 89 Gardner has had many chances at Villa Park and has been found wanting, good youth player but not a top class Championship player and not a prem player either.
Mc Cormack has played one game, when he has played as often as Gardner then is the time to have a go.
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BR 89 Gardner has had many chances at Villa Park and has been found wanting, good youth player but not a top class Championship player and not a prem player either.
Mc Cormack has played one game, when he has played as often as Gardner then is the time to have a go.
Yep, it was a woeful argument really.
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I'm not sure if he played in a pace less midfield two at Forest? but if so i'd be surprised
Pairing him and Westwood without anybody in there with them to add some energy is asking a hell of a lot to my mind
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The game passed him by yesterday. By all means let's see what he can offer but I won't put my savings on him sorry
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Another midfield player that has a poor game playing alongside Westwood.
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BR 89 Gardner has had many chances at Villa Park and has been found wanting, good youth player but not a top class Championship player and not a prem player either.
Mc Cormack has played one game, when he has played as often as Gardner then is the time to have a go.
Serious question.
How many games constitute a chance? I can't remember him starting 2 games on the bounce although he probably has. I don't think he's ever had 3-4 games on the trot to play himself in, mainly as whenever he's been fit enough, we've never been in a position to afford the luxury of giving him those games.
When he got the back end of last season at Forest he apparently did well. It may well be that mid table in this division is his level, but it's not his fault every time he's been in a position to progress either he's done one of ACLs or we've not been in a position to properly give him a chance. I'll agree that it's last chance saloon for him at B6, but it's not much more than 1st chance either.
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Saturday was only his 6th start for us by my reckoning.
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You were at Cambridge then SH. You would have seen him play well then.
I'm not interested in friendlies only the real thing. He's never cut it at PL and barely got a game out on loan last season in the Championship. That should tell you everything, he's not good enough for Villa. Signing this type of player over the last 6 seasons contributed to our decline and the sooner we rid the club of them the better.
So effectively: "I'm not interested in games that don't fit the idea I already have so I never want to see him play for us again and I'll only accept I might be wrong about him if I see him play for us again."
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You were at Cambridge then SH. You would have seen him play well then.
I'm not interested in friendlies only the real thing. He's never cut it at PL and barely got a game out on loan last season in the Championship. That should tell you everything, he's not good enough for Villa. Signing this type of player over the last 6 seasons contributed to our decline and the sooner we rid the club of them the better.
So effectively: "I'm not interested in games that don't fit the idea I already have so I never want to see him play for us again and I'll only accept I might be wrong about him if I see him play for us again."
I'm guessing the last time most of us saw Bennett in a competitive game was when he was MoM against Chelsea because Bertrand couldn't play?
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He came on v Notts County last season in the LC and scored a tidy goal.
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He came on v Notts County last season in the LC and scored a tidy goal.
That obviously doesn't count as it was against lower league opposition.
And it was as a sub. He couldn't even start against Notts County. How shit must he be?
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Maybe he would look better in a 3 or with someone more energetic than Westwood. The fact that he made Westwood look like Kante yesterday worries me.
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a proper defensive midfielder would give Gardner more freedom to get forward.
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He came on v Notts County last season in the LC and scored a tidy goal.
That obviously doesn't count as it was against lower league opposition.
And it was as a sub. He couldn't even start against Notts County. How shit must he be?
He is though. He's another that will disappear in to oblivion when his contract is up with us. There's a reason why no one picks him. Bournemouth, Sheff Wed, Paul Lambert, Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, Di Matteo.
He has a cross on him and that's about it, in fact he'd probably be a better option than Cissokho if we intend to keep playing the fullbacks as our main attacking outlets.
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He came on v Notts County last season in the LC and scored a tidy goal.
That obviously doesn't count as it was against lower league opposition.
And it was as a sub. He couldn't even start against Notts County. How shit must he be?
He is though. He's another that will disappear in to oblivion when his contract is up with us. There's a reason why no one picks him. Bournemouth, Sheff Wed, Paul Lambert, Tim Sherwood, Remi Garde, Di Matteo.
He has a cross on him and that's about it, in fact he'd probably be a better option than Cissokho if we intend to keep playing the fullbacks as our main attacking outlets.
And with you last sentence you get the point, no one thinks he's a world beater and Amavi is clearly a far better player but Bennett at left back at least gives us a threat of getting a decent cross in.
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Maybe he would look better in a 3 or with someone more energetic than Westwood. The fact that he made Westwood look like Kante yesterday worries me.
I've often referred to Westwood as 'Kante'. Well a pretty similar word anyway.
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a proper defensive midfielder would give Gardner more freedom to get forward.
bloody hell what on a mobility scooter?
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The trouble is with Gardner, is that in every game I've seen him play for us, which admittedly I could count on one hand, I've yet to see the ability on the ball that was talked about when he was coming up through the ranks. I've not seen the passing range. Yesterday his passing was awful. He's never been quick and he's never really been quick footed, so he's got to have the ability to spread the play well or find an attacking teammate quickly and incisively. Westwood did that far better yesterday.
For me, he's got till January to prove himself. In fact it may well be the end of the month, depending on who we sign. We've got three games coming up in which he will really need to excel (if/when he plays). Now or never. He can't afford to have games as bad as yesterday.
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The trouble is with Gardner, is that in every game I've seen him play for us, which admittedly I could count on one hand, I've yet to see the ability on the ball that was talked about when he was coming up through the ranks. I've not seen the passing range. Yesterday his passing was awful. He's never been quick and he's never really been quick footed, so he's got to have the ability to spread the play well or find an attacking teammate quickly and incisively. Westwood did that far better yesterday.
For me, he's got till January to prove himself. In fact it may well be the end of the month, depending on who we sign. We've got three games coming up in which he will really need to excel (if/when he plays). Now or never. He can't afford to have games as bad as yesterday.
I'd say that's probably the most sensible assessment I've read on here of Gardner's prognosis for this season. I'd temper the he needs to excel over the next 3 games though. Signs of progress over the next few games to make an argument for starting or not once the squad is finalised. Regardless of any other signings and we do need at least one more like Tshibola style wise before you start contemplating Grealish or someone else as a "no 10", but Gardner is still going to be in and around the squad until at least January.
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Early days with GG seemed over eager to impress(foul yellow card) but he's definitely decent enough at championship level. Imagine being him and finally getting a chance and being injury free. Also imagine all injuries and pressure through out years on him to be a villa hero. Good luck and back him I say. He decent footballer and his passing weren't comimg off Sunday. He tried some pogba range passing but he has capabilities and I trust rdm to give him opportunity. I also feel he would have at least hit target if ball dropped on edge of area unlike Westwood who quite frankly squandered his 2 efforts at goal. Gardner as we know has a shot on him so hope gets another go Wednesday
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Pointy's first effort was poor but the second was a pretty decent attempt
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Pointy's first effort was poor but the second was a pretty decent attempt
The 2nd would been an early contender for goal of the season if he'd got it on target, it was an incredibly difficult chance.
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Pointy's first effort was poor but the second was a pretty decent attempt
As a previous poster mentioned post-Wednesday, Pointy has an unerring ability to stick his efforts just wide of the target. He's a master at it.
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Pointy's first effort was poor but the second was a pretty decent attempt
The 2nd would been an early contender for goal of the season if he'd got it on target, it was an incredibly difficult chance.
It was good technique to get it close. He got his body position slightly too open to hold it on target. If Rooney or some such had got it in, Sky would still be wanking themselves stupid about it now.
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Maybe he would look better in a 3 or with someone more energetic than Westwood. The fact that he made Westwood look like Kante yesterday worries me.
I had a quick look on a Wednesday forum yesterday and there was a pretty universal view that our midfield were right on top of theirs and gave them no time.
If, having witnessed Championship football for several years, they think Westwood and Gardner close down quickly I suddenly have a lot more confidence about our chances over the rest of this season!
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Maybe he would look better in a 3 or with someone more energetic than Westwood. The fact that he made Westwood look like Kante yesterday worries me.
I had a quick look on a Wednesday forum yesterday and there was a pretty universal view that our midfield were right on top of theirs and gave them no time.
If, having witnessed Championship football for several years, they think Westwood and Gardner close down quickly I suddenly have a lot more confidence about our chances over the rest of this season!
I think they're right, We started very cagey and stood off them a bit, which i think was the nerves that come from the record we've had over the last few years but once we realised they didn't hold much threat we started to get in their faces and bossed things for the rest of the game. If we can play with that intensity but also add some end product we'll blow a few teams away in this league.
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I don't want to be negative but...
He can't pass, he can't tackle, he can't shoot, he isn't creative, he is very slow.
So what is he exactly good at? He adds nothing to the midfield. That is the midfield with no creativity, no bite to press and win the ball back.
IMHO not good enough to start in a midfield aiming to be promoted this season.
I know I won't be popular because he is "one of us" but that's how I see it sadly.
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BR 89 Gardner has had many chances at Villa Park and has been found wanting, good youth player but not a top class Championship player and not a prem player either.
Mc Cormack has played one game, when he has played as often as Gardner then is the time to have a go.
Yep, it was a woeful argument really.
He's not had many chances at all. A handful of starts under McCleish is all he's had. Put it this way both Stan Petrov and Delph were given time and decent runs in the first team eventually they came good when many people wanted them out, Delph especially had some shocking performances in the early days. People will no doubt disagree but for me Ashley Westwood is now starting to show signs of improvement, Sunday was one of his best performances in ages no coincidence that he's probably now played as many games as Stan and Snake before they started to show their form.
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I don't want to be negative but...
He can't pass, he can't tackle, he can't shoot, he isn't creative, he is very slow.
So what is he exactly good at? He adds nothing to the midfield. That is the midfield with no creativity, no bite to press and win the ball back.
IMHO not good enough to start in a midfield aiming to be promoted this season.
I know I won't be popular because he is "one of us" but that's how I see it sadly.
If it's any consolation to you, for me you have hit the nail firmly on the head
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I don't want to be negative but...
He can't pass, he can't tackle, he can't shoot, he isn't creative, he is very slow.
So what is he exactly good at? He adds nothing to the midfield. That is the midfield with no creativity, no bite to press and win the ball back.
IMHO not good enough to start in a midfield aiming to be promoted this season.
I know I won't be popular because he is "one of us" but that's how I see it sadly.
Until I got to the last line I thought you were talking about Westwood. I don't think we need both this season.
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Good point my post also can apply directly to Westwood too. How depressing.
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maybe we should sell him to forest for a few million while they think hes good , another 4 mths playing like Sunday we are not going to get anything for him.
with a new midfielder coming in , he has to step up quick.
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He can't pass, he can't tackle, he can't shoot, he isn't creative.
He could do all of those things, whether he still can I'm beginning to doubt now. He didn't look entirely fit on Sunday which is a bit disturbing as this should have been the fittest he's been for a few years.
It will be pretty sad if he doesn't fulfill his potential here.
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
While I think the biggest problem is not being in game shape at the moment.. he has absolutely no presence. He never dropped deep to get the ball and distribute it up the pitch. He never turned a defender, he never made a penetrating pass, he never dribbled into space, didn't break up play. We need a midfielder (especially if they are going to be paired with Westwood) that is going to turn and attack. That is capable of shooting in and around the box.
He had absolutely no offensive prowess. First game of the season he should be raring to go. Not only was I not impressed but I didn't see a single glimpse of promise. Tshibola comes on a puts him to shame and the kid has been at the club for a fortnight.
I think RDM made a big mistake with that starting midfield.
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
While I think the biggest problem is not being in game shape at the moment.. he has absolutely no presence. He never dropped deep to get the ball and distribute it up the pitch. He never turned a defender, he never made a penetrating pass, he never dribbled into space, didn't break up play. We need a midfielder (especially if they are going to be paired with Westwood) that is going to turn and attack. That is capable of shooting in and around the box.
He had absolutely no offensive prowess. First game of the season he should be raring to go. Not only was I not impressed but I didn't see a single glimpse of promise. Tshibola comes on a puts him to shame and the kid has been at the club for a fortnight.
I think RDM made a big mistake with that starting midfield.
Can't argue with any of that but because Gary's one of our own and been desperately unlucky with long term injuries I think we all want to see him given a run of games that gives him the chance to nail down a first team place and prove his career isn't over at this level.
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Joe Bennett looks like his gone, so how does Gardner who in a Villa shirt has actually done less than Bennett , hold on??
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
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Maybe he just had a bad game against Sheffield Wednesday, I was critical of him after it but I'd like to see him a few more times. Someone on here pointed out that a lack of confidence can make a player seem poorer than they are too.
I think it was the foul he conceded near half way by dragging their player down from behind that got me. Made me grimace.
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
Er, actually it could be my wife's Swedish meatballs, and no, that's not a euphemism.
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I think we may be going down the road of making our minds up to early again on players.
He's played his first league game in god knows how many years and because it wasn't the best suddenly he's the worst of the two Gardner brothers.
I saw him play for Forest and he was more commending that what he was the other day. Time and a little patience.
If we do sign the midfielder the Dr Tony has said we may be signing before Saturday, it may be the player that Gary can hopefully play alongside. The thing for e is that with Ayew playing behind Gestede our midfield can sometimes be very congested and no real out ball.
Hopefully this will change this season.
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Can't shoot? He's got one of the best shots from long range in this division as he's shown with Forest in the past two seasons.
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He buried one beautifully from a Green cut back at Cambridge. He can shoot.
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He buried one beautifully from a Green cut back at Cambridge. He can shoot.
all well and good but his got the speed of a sloth
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
Er, actually it could be my wife's Swedish meatballs, and no, that's not a euphemism.
i prefer her dumplings :o
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
Er, actually it could be my wife's Swedish meatballs, and no, that's not a euphemism.
i prefer her dumplings :o
Very doughy with an odd taste and texture. Her tenderloin is melts in the mouth.
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
Er, actually it could be my wife's Swedish meatballs, and no, that's not a euphemism.
i prefer her dumplings :o
Very doughy with an odd taste and texture. Her tenderloin is melts in the mouth.
You're both making me giggle while I'm trying to hide on the bog at work. Pack it in please.
Good editing Tayls. Her tenderloin was merely 'passable' two minutes ago. Is she looking over your shoulder?
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
Er, actually it could be my wife's Swedish meatballs, and no, that's not a euphemism.
i prefer her dumplings :o
Very doughy with an odd taste and texture. Her tenderloin is melts in the mouth.
You're both making me giggle while I'm trying to hide on the bog at work. Pack it in please.
Good editing Tayls. Her tenderloin was merely 'passable' two minutes ago. Is she looking over your shoulder?
could you repeat that im a bit mutton
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Gary certainly looked off the pace of the game on Sunday. I'd play him against Luton tomorrow night. He needs matches.
he needs matches?
bugger me he played 20 odd times for forest last season and has had pre season
if something looks like shit, smells like shit and tastes like shit then it usually is shit
this time next year rodney
Er, actually it could be my wife's Swedish meatballs, and no, that's not a euphemism.
i prefer her dumplings :o
Very doughy with an odd taste and texture. Her tenderloin is melts in the mouth.
You're both making me giggle while I'm trying to hide on the bog at work. Pack it in please.
Good editing Tayls. Her tenderloin was merely 'passable' two minutes ago. Is she looking over your shoulder?
could you repeat that im a bit mutton
I thought I'd touch it up a bit.
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Anyone want to stick up for him now?
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Anyone want to stick up for him now?
That makes you sound happy he fucked up just so as you can say you were right.
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Needs to be dropped
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Dreadful player. Absolutely hopeless.
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He's nowhere near good enough to play for us. Get rid, he's terrible.
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He's nowhere near good enough to play for us. Get rid, he's terrible.
Unfortunately, given how piss-poor the whole set up is these days - he probably IS good enough to play for us as things stand.
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I don't know what he was doing to get such rave reviews at Forest. He looks really poor so far to me.
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Anyone want to stick up for him now?
That makes you sound happy he fucked up just so as you can say you were right.
I'm far from happy infact I'd like to see him prove me wrong but its just never going to happen he's awful.
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Thought he was poor on Sunday but tonight he was even worse. Not even a championship player from what I've seen so far.
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I've just never seen it in him. Even when he was a kid he looked a flat track bully who was just physically bigger than his peers
There obviously is something there as he was first choice at forest. But I really can't see it at all
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Echo other comments. His lack of mobility and to react and move the ball quickly are a lethal combination. Ponderous.
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Thought he was poor on Sunday but tonight he was even worse. Not even a championship player from what I've seen so far.
Sums it up very nicely for me.
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There was an occasion tonight where Luton were in our penalty area and were looking to outnumber our lot and Gardner just stood next to the man with the ball and tried to tap the ball away from his foot when in fact he should have creeled him taking ball and man out. I can't say but, I wonder if he knew that was what he should do but his past injuries were in the back of his mind.
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He was awful but I always had him down as an attacking midfielder. That holding role doesn't suit him at all.
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I'm sorry but he's not even good enough to be considered ordinary.
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I feel for him as those 2 injuries have screwed him, but am mystified at the reviews he got at Forest based on these 2 games.
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He lacks pace and awareness and I don't know what attribute he brings to the team. The first goal started with a mistake by him, a simple mistake where he should have controlled the ball and moved it. He didn't and then got robbed. Not what you want from a midfielder.
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Zero pace, requires far too long on the ball, contributes absolutely nothing.
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He looks terrified in possession. He can't be as bad as we've seen this year, the Forest fan at work was raving about him last season.
He needs to be dropped for his own good as much as ours at the minute.
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Can't have joined the fragile gang so quickly? Surely not? Terrible so far, not sure he'll be given many more chances by RDM.
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Zero pace, requires far too long on the ball, contributes absolutely nothing.
Exactly where he was in 2012
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In a parallel universe he didn't get that first injury and is on his way to being Sam's first England captain.
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Get rid.
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Shit.
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Too bad things have worked out this way. It goes some way to explaining why no manager saw his worth as a PL player and why he kept going on loan. But he's proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he doesn't have it. We literally need a net 2 or 3 high quality midfielders at least because it is crushing us in attacking and in defence.
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Just another anonymous clone who masquerades as a midfielder as Aston Villa.
No presence, no guile, no skill, no ability to read the game, no ability to influence a game.
Just another player who runs around a bit in the middle of the park.
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Wouldn't bin him on the basis of two games but it's hard to defend him based on what we've seen so far.
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I have seen a couple of nice touches , but he is not mobile enough , gets caught on the ball. I dont believe he was quick before all his injuries so his probably slower , shame really
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Looks lost in a 2 in midfield-been very poor in these two games, a chance he had to take. Can't see RDM picking him on Sat, sure he'll go with Tish & Pointy in the middle
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Looks lost in a 2 in midfield...
Looks lost in a Villa kit
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Wouldn't bin him on the basis of two games but it's hard to defend him based on what we've seen so far.
I agree with this. It's too early to write him off completely but the signs aren't good at the moment. The rave reviews from Forest fans can't have been based on performances like the ones we've seen so far this season and two games isn't enough to judge any player on.
The only thing I'll say in his defence is that we don't have any central midfielders in the whole squad that look comfortable in a two man midfield, so when we play two inadequate players there, they are completely exposed. We won't start getting a grip of games until we can boss the middle, and we won't do that with any two of the players we have. So we need new players and/or a different system. We might see a different side to Gardner and Westwood with more energetic and powerful players next to them. Perhaps.
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I think all of our midfielders are suffering at the moment by seemingly not having defined roles. It looks like 2 are being asked to sit in front of the back 4 (those 2 being Gardner and Tshibola last night), but the result is that they're doing exactly that (sitting) and playing side-by-side are being bypassed by simple passes ridiculously easily. it's a bit like watching table-football when we haven't got the ball.
I've always thought that it's much more effective to task one player with anchoring the midfield and let one do the box-to-box stuff. problem is, I don't know who'd be best suited to which role from our current squad. They all seem to be average at both roles, without excelling at either. Without being too defeatist, Sanchez and Veretout would probably have been the 2 most equipped to play in that pair!
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I tend to like one guy right in front of the centre backs. But it's the bloody championship and plenty of other teams manage it. Jedinak with Tshibola doing the more box to box sounds a better balance to me.
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I'd be over the moon If he never features for us again. Offers nothing infact is a hindrance.
How the Gardner brothers have both played premier league football baffles me.
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I'd be over the moon If he never features for us again. Offers nothing infact is a hindrance.
How the Gardner brothers have both played premier league football baffles me.
Craig Gardner (in his defence) has one of the best shots in the game though. Not much else, mind.
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As shit as his brother.
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he is fucking gash
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Well it's a shame but after years of waiting and hoping, the cold hard fact is he's not good enough. He's had chances this season but is just isn't what we need in the middle - by all means keep him as back up but we are extremely vulnerable with him starting games.
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Tshibola and Jedinak has to be our middle two from this point onwards.
Hope both are fit for Wednesday.
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I've been a massive critic of him this season, I thought he's been awful
I actually think he was decent if not spectacular today. And quicker
He gave the ball away badly for the goal, but it was on the edge of their box
I do realise however that with ayew excellent today we need a unanimous scapegoat
I'd obviously have him fourth in line for midfield still
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Shame we didn't buy Henri Lansbury. Would have been another club captain with championship experience but would also offer more to the midfield and get a fair share of goals too.
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I thought Lansbury was poor today - great finish though
And stupid hair cut
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I wouldn't feed Gary Gardner right now.
Ps I hope he gets 50 knocks tonight from Jehovah Witnesses
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As shit as his brother.
I think his bro is better...and that's not saying a lot.
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I've been a his biggest fan but I'm losing faith, just too ponderous in everything he does.
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As shit as his brother.
I think his bro is better...and that's not saying a lot.
Me too, he might be a shithead but he's a competent lower Prem central midfielder who scores a few goals.
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Is there a Westwood thread anywhere because that's where the real problem lies? Westwood is shite. King of the side passes.
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Is there a Westwood thread anywhere because that's where the real problem lies? Westwood is shite. King of the side passes.
The one constant in 3/4 years of shite.
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Westwood runs his socks off and shoots and passes, Gardner what is his purpose on the pitch?
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I see the weaknesss in Westwood but if he's not playing, who gets the ball to the five forwards we seem to want to play?
The mix of the midfield isn't right but I'm really not convinced Tish and Jedinak will offer us enough going forward.
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Westwood made several good forward passes today which you just knew at the time would be obliterated from collective memory
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Westwood is Blues, stop fooling yourself, seen enough evidence over the last 5 years to know exactly what he is about.
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Westwood made several good forward passes today which you just knew at the time would be obliterated from collective memory
he was also a pussy for both of their goals
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Strikes me as not good enough.
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He's not good enough. The first goal today, it's one thing playing a terrible pass anyone can do that, but the lack of effort to get back and correct that error was awful.
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I think you've all hit the nail on the head, westwood what does he contribute?? Gardner just not good enough, together they are as much use as the chuckle brothers.
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Westwood made several good forward passes today which you just knew at the time would be obliterated from collective memory
Did he? I watched and have watched him closely for the last years. His initial thought when any opposition player is in his viscinity is to look for a pass backwards. The most positive thing about his play is a sideways pass and even that is slightly backwards. We have other players who could be far more positive including Gardner.
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Westwood made several good forward passes today which you just knew at the time would be obliterated from collective memory
Did he? I watched and have watched him closely for the last years. His initial thought when any opposition player is in his viscinity is to look for a pass backwards. The most positive thing about his play is a sideways pass and even that is slightly backwards. We have other players who could be far more positive including Gardner.
Spot on about Westwood. He's just a nothing player who gets the ball and makes a nothing pass which comes to nothing. He's as weak as water who gets muscled off the ball easily, offers little protection to the back four, and when he gets a rare chance to shoot invariably nothing comes of it. Just look at today, he gets a decent chance to shoot, no one around him, the whole goal to aim at yet he shoots straight at the keeper. I mean he didn't even have to move. He's a complete and utter waste of space who has played his part in our embarrassing decline. Honestly why he's still at the club remains one of life's great mysteries and in my opinion we won't be promoted with him in the team.
Jedinak and Tshibola have to step into the fray.
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Westwood is a much better player than Gardner.
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Don't you rate Westwood then, s_h?
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Westwood is a much better player than Gardner.
Talk about being damned with faint praise.
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Gardner started the game well today and had a good first half. He faded a bit but he is getting a disproportionate amount of criticism to my eyes. We need to give him a chance to bed himself in a bit, he's hardly started a game for us before this season.
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Gardner started the game well today and had a good first half. He faded a bit but he is getting a disproportionate amount of criticism to my eyes. We need to give him a chance to bed himself in a bit, he's hardly started a game for us before this season.
I don't really see what he does well.
Maybe he's finding it hard alongside another waste of space in Westwood, but I just don't get it with GG.
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Woeful player. Gave the ball away for their first too.
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Westwood is a much better player than Gardner.
Talk about being damned with faint praise.
Maybe so, but some of the views on here seem to lose sight of this fact.
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one thing I did notice with GG and Grealish today is they are no longer little strings of piss,
GG has always been the bigger but at close quarters he is a lot bigger (not fat) than you think
and Grealish has filled out a lot even since last season, I'd say definitely been working the weights and just looks a lot stronger, built to last
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I'm no fan of Gardner so far this season but think he was unlucky for the first, he passed it to a player who had his back to goal and a defender up his arse so was a pass to be held up or laid off by that player on the edge of the area, the player however did a great spin fooling everyone and leaving it looking like a really shit pass straight to their defender who had just been mugged off. He's crap at tracking back mind.
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Gardner: you can tell you're a scapegoat when you get blamed this much for giving the ball away on the edge of the opponents' box
Not that I'd have him in the team if others are fit
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So we shouldn't criticise a player who gives the ball away for the opposition to, 5 seconds later, score?
He's absolute shite. He makes me half believe Westwood is maybe passable in comparison. He's not a scapegoat at all.
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Spot on about Westwood. He's just a nothing player who gets the ball and makes a nothing pass which comes to nothing. He's as weak as water who gets muscled off the ball easily, offers little protection to the back four, and when he gets a rare chance to shoot invariably nothing comes of it. Just look at today, he gets a decent chance to shoot, no one around him, the whole goal to aim at yet he shoots straight at the keeper. I mean he didn't even have to move. He's a complete and utter waste of space who has played his part in our embarrassing decline. Honestly why he's still at the club remains one of life's great mysteries and in my opinion we won't be promoted with him in the team.
Jedinak and Tshibola have to step into the fray.
I was going to post something to this effect myself. Much is made of his passing (which seems to me to be decent, nothing more), but he's nominally a deeper-lying midfielder and therefore it's vital that he can tackle and shield the defence a bit.
He doesn't have that ability, though. He's absolutely worthless at it, as evidenced by their first goal today. Gardner lost the ball halfway into the opposition half, so we should have been able to cope. The defenders were back and Westwood got to their player and positioned himself goalside. Yet he just got brushed off like a nine-year old girl and ended up letting his man stroll into a yawning gap. He might as well not have been there. In fact, he might as well not have been there for the last four seasons.
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Westwood is a much better player than Gardner.
Spits drink everywhere*
*If I'd have had a drink in my hand, when reading that
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It was a poor pass, I agree.
But I just watched the highlights on sky. For the equaliser, both McCormack and then Chester put in awful challenges. Nobody mentions it
People do mention Gardner giving the ball away in the opponents half and a supposedly weak challenge from Westwood for the equaliser. The guy played a 1-2 past him. Not really sure what Westwood should have done
Maybe, just maybe, the last four professional football managers have known a bit more about football than the fans who suggest he's shit. I seem to remember some people even sayin Chris herd was better than him. Chris herd!
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Does anyone believe we can be promoted with Westwood and Gardner as the midfield generals? I know it is likely to change but even so, with injuries and suspensions they are still likely to get their fair share of games. I think both are pretty awful.
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Professionals like Paul Lambert and Tim Sherwood? Professionals...
Anyway, what is it they see in Westwood that I'm missing. Is it his physicality, his effort off the ball, his ability to dictate the tempo, the chances he creates, the goals he scores, the positions he takes up. I don't know, I've seen every single game he's played for us. Maybe I'm sitting too far away and I'm missing all the above.
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It was a poor pass, I agree.
But I just watched the highlights on sky. For the equaliser, both McCormack and then Chester put in awful challenges. Nobody mentions it
People do mention Gardner giving the ball away in the opponents half and a supposedly weak challenge from Westwood for the equaliser. The guy played a 1-2 past him. Not really sure what Westwood should have done
Maybe, just maybe, the last four professional football managers have known a bit more about football than the fans who suggest he's shit. I seem to remember some people even sayin Chris herd was better than him. Chris herd!
good player Chris Herd, dominated the midfield once against Man Utd or was that Hogg
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Hogg. Herd battered a door once.
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Hogg. Herd battered a door once.
the door was asking for it
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I realise the standard is eons better but I couldn't help be totally and utterly jealous of the quality of the corners Man Citeh kept pinging in yesterday that invariably were pacey and constantly attacked. Has anyone ever seen a decent corner delivered by Westwood? McCormack was taking some today, they were no better mind.
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Woeful player. Gave the ball away for their first too.
Sorry ads not picking on you in particular but comments like this really piss me off and you see them all the time. If you give the ball away on the edge of your own box and they score then yes, you're at fault but if you give it away trying to slide someone in for a shot and you get pelters for it you're just going to start playing the safe pass instead, but if you do that you get moaned about (see the Grealish thread for example) so what do people want the team to do around the edge of their box? Feel free to rip Gardner up (fairly or unfairly) over most things but don't try to pin the first goal on him, there were 2-3 chances for the team to get it back before he scored and all of those missed opportunities are more at fault than the pass.
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It's a poor pass of course he shares the blame.
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It's also harsh on Gardner saying that somebody showed for the ball and in the split second that Gardner makes the pass, the player has moved. It was just a misunderstanding between the 2.
For both their goals, they were allowed to move up the pitch too easily. That's a team fault.
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Westwood's absolutely laughable attempt at a tackle was more to blame for the first goal.
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His first half performance was the best I have seen from him in a Villa shirt. Unfortunately he started the second half poorly and gave away a number of passes (including one that ultimately led to their first goal).
As we've seen so far this season, doing OK for the likes of Forest on loan is not really the standard we require.
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Westwood and Gardner are ok at what they do, but there is the problem, what they do is not good enough for AVFC, they are the midfield from hell when it comes to tracking back, making tackles (when Gardner does, it normally results in a free kick given away), having the ability to split defences, dead ball situations both attacking and defending anything you would expect from a good midfield, they just do not offer.
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I completely agree with ocd and Paul e
The lack of perspective and bias for and against certain players drives me up the wall sometimes
Gardner has been shit this season. He really wasn't shit yesterday - he had a bad 5 mins but didn't do anything ridiculous
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Woeful player. Gave the ball away for their first too.
Sorry ads not picking on you in particular but comments like this really piss me off and you see them all the time. If you give the ball away on the edge of your own box and they score then yes, you're at fault but if you give it away trying to slide someone in for a shot and you get pelters for it you're just going to start playing the safe pass instead, but if you do that you get moaned about (see the Grealish thread for example) so what do people want the team to do around the edge of their box? Feel free to rip Gardner up (fairly or unfairly) over most things but don't try to pin the first goal on him, there were 2-3 chances for the team to get it back before he scored and all of those missed opportunities are more at fault than the pass.
I completely agree with this. If he always played the safe ball he would be crucified for that too.
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Westwood's absolutely laughable attempt at a tackle was more to blame for the first goal.
It would have shamed a 12 year old girl, and his "challenge" for the second goal wasn't any better. On the first, he should have gone in like a train and taken out player if he couldn't take out the ball. You would hope that Jedinak will bring some of that.
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He was ok Yesterday in generally but the issue is with both him and Westwood they just keep play moving neither has ability to run with ball or make things happen.Gardner at least will go in strong with tackles replace their positions for first goal yesterday with Westwood giving ball away and Gardner would have made a tackle or given away a foul.
Both can function in midfield with someone else alongside them or in a 3 man midfield but as 2 behind and attacking 3 and striker they are a liability as a combination
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It was a poor pass, I agree.
But I just watched the highlights on sky. For the equaliser, both McCormack and then Chester put in awful challenges. Nobody mentions it
People do mention Gardner giving the ball away in the opponents half and a supposedly weak challenge from Westwood for the equaliser. The guy played a 1-2 past him. Not really sure what Westwood should have done
Maybe, just maybe, the last four professional football managers have known a bit more about football than the fans who suggest he's shit. I seem to remember some people even sayin Chris herd was better than him. Chris herd!
Agreed, thought it was Gardner's best display of the season yesterday, faint praise I know !!
Out of all the players that could be blamed for the first goal, he would be well down the list
But at least he got on the ball a bit more yesterday and was tidy enough in possession
Unlucky to be taken off I thought
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It was a poor pass, I agree.
But I just watched the highlights on sky. For the equaliser, both McCormack and then Chester put in awful challenges. Nobody mentions it
People do mention Gardner giving the ball away in the opponents half and a supposedly weak challenge from Westwood for the equaliser. The guy played a 1-2 past him. Not really sure what Westwood should have done
Maybe, just maybe, the last four professional football managers have known a bit more about football than the fans who suggest he's shit. I seem to remember some people even sayin Chris herd was better than him. Chris herd!
Agreed, thought it was Gardner's best display of the season yesterday, faint praise I know !!
Out of all the players that could be blamed for the first goal, he would be well down the list
But at least he got on the ball a bit more yesterday and was tidy enough in possession
Unlucky to be taken off I thought
I watched the second half again last night, it's often interesting watching a game for a second time without the nerves. I thought Gardner was ok actually. Yes he gave the ball away, but in the minutes preceding that Grealish, Ayew and McCormack all gave it away without the same consequence, so they don't get slated for it.
I'd say its his best game for us this season and suggests that he might be an adequate back up at this level once everyones fit.
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Gardner actually drove forward through the Forest midfield with a shot that went wide yesterday. If he can do that a bit more as well as not be afraid to tell Ayew that he wants to take the occasional free-kick, I think he could have something more substantial to offer.
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I thought Gardner was our best player in the first half. He sprayed a couple of passes around the pitch and had a run where he won the ball and drove forward to get a free kick on the edge of their box; things I haven't seen a Villa midfielder do since the industrial revolution. However, he was sloppy in the second half and slipped back into looking nervous and unfit, like he has for the rest of the season so far.
If we have to rely on him to play the majority of matches this season, we'll struggle to ever get a grip on matches. However, for the odd game here and there he'll be fine, and might start progressing. His performance in the first half gives me hope.
I still think, though, that our biggest problem is the system; having a two man midfield (particularly when one of them is Westwood or Gardner) means we're constantly at risk of being overrun. And when we have a one man midfield we're just asking for trouble. Of all the reasons why we didn't win yesterday, Gardner''s performance was a minor one.
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I still think he's playing too deep. Instead of those pearlers of 40-yard cross-field passes he plays, I'd rather see him 30 yards further forward and slipping little 10-yarders down the sides in front of the likes of Grealish and Ayew.
And it'd keep him within range of goal himself.
Fingers crossed he comes good consistently.
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I thought Gardner was our best player in the first half. He sprayed a couple of passes around the pitch and had a run where he won the ball and drove forward to get a free kick on the edge of their box; things I haven't seen a Villa midfielder do since the industrial revolution. However, he was sloppy in the second half and slipped back into looking nervous and unfit, like he has for the rest of the season so far.
If we have to rely on him to play the majority of matches this season, we'll struggle to ever get a grip on matches. However, for the odd game here and there he'll be fine, and might start progressing. His performance in the first half gives me hope.
I still think, though, that our biggest problem is the system; having a two man midfield (particularly when one of them is Westwood or Gardner) means we're constantly at risk of being overrun. And when we have a one man midfield we're just asking for trouble. Of all the reasons why we didn't win yesterday, Gardner''s performance was a minor one.
I think the first line is closer to the performance I saw than most other reports. He did tire and coming off after around an hour seems to be the right approach for now but I think he's improving every week and it's only really the first game or 2 where he had genuine shockers but some people seem to be unwilling to see that improvement.
Yesterday we drew a game we should've won but it wasn't because of individual players playing poorly and we really need to get away from trying to find the culprit for every game where we don't get the result we want. I honestly don't think you can accuse anyone of having a bad game, we made a couple of mistakes where we let them have too much time around or box and they punished us both times. At the other end we created enough chances to win 3 games but just didn't take the extra 2-3 that the performance deserved, I genuinely believe that 5-2 wouldn't have flattered us such was the gulf in performance.
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I thought Gardner was our best player in the first half. He sprayed a couple of passes around the pitch and had a run where he won the ball and drove forward to get a free kick on the edge of their box; things I haven't seen a Villa midfielder do since the industrial revolution. However, he was sloppy in the second half and slipped back into looking nervous and unfit, like he has for the rest of the season so far.
If we have to rely on him to play the majority of matches this season, we'll struggle to ever get a grip on matches. However, for the odd game here and there he'll be fine, and might start progressing. His performance in the first half gives me hope.
I still think, though, that our biggest problem is the system; having a two man midfield (particularly when one of them is Westwood or Gardner) means we're constantly at risk of being overrun. And when we have a one man midfield we're just asking for trouble. Of all the reasons why we didn't win yesterday, Gardner''s performance was a minor one.
You mirror my thoughts on the game yesterday. We failed to pick up all the points because we failed to get Jedi in the pitch to buttress a creaking MF. Gardner definitely looked pretty good first half.
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Fucking hell some balance led views on this page!!!!
I agree - he was pretty good first half. Much zippier. Nothing amazing, but decent - and that's a big improvement on what he'd served up so far
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I thought Gonch had a decent game on Sunday as well.
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Shame Roland was crap for the reserves.
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He is on twitter a lot and is very receptive to comments - he comes across as a really decent lad and i hope he has a very good season for us - think there have been a few nerves with him - could do with a nice goal to get him in his stride.
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I don't think Westwood and Gardner as a partnership get the best out of each other. One of them needs to start with Jedinak, which would give them a little more freedom.
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He is on twitter a lot and is very receptive to comments - he comes across as a really decent lad and i hope he has a very good season for us - think there have been a few nerves with him - could do with a nice goal to get him in his stride.
i might ask him why he parked in a disabled space at a well known supermarket
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He is on twitter a lot and is very receptive to comments - he comes across as a really decent lad and i hope he has a very good season for us - think there have been a few nerves with him - could do with a nice goal to get him in his stride.
i might ask him why he parked in a disabled space at a well known supermarket
For his boggie brother. He is so mentally I'll he cannot remember who he supports
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Fair play to gards last night and some recognition. Shout out to him for his passionate celebration and good midfield performance. Really enjoyed him rapporting with fans and he really knows what it meant to win Bruce acknowledge him and baker and want to do the same. Give him a few games run and like last season and forest more than capable of holding own at this level .
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He is on twitter a lot and is very receptive to comments - he comes across as a really decent lad and i hope he has a very good season for us - think there have been a few nerves with him - could do with a nice goal to get him in his stride.
Yes he acknowledge fans on his Twitter and posted up celebrations worth a look
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Nice gerunding of "rapport", 'skills. Arguably the best since Saranyu coined " funeraling".
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I think he'll thrive under Bruce. Forest fans were disappointed to lose him after last year's loan spell. The guy certainly has ability.
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He did well last night. This makes me happy
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I'm a big fan and am on record as saying he's the best youth player I've ever seen, but, he needs to be a lot more than OK against Reading to silence the doubters. A move in the right direction mind.
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Happy for the lad. I hope he continues to make my previous negative comments about him look foolish. Good job.
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Played a key role in both goals from the highlights I've seen.
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Villa fans react to Gards performance
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/10/19/aston-villa-fans-react-on-twitter-to-gary-gardners-performance-a/
Also writing in Birmingham Mail and What Bruce said in Gards
Bruce did reserve extra praise for Gardner who made his first start in six weeks as Villa finally banished their away-day blues.
After watching the 24-year-old play a part in both of Villa’s goals and also put in a disciplined display to stifle the Reading attack, the manager said:
“I wanted to have a look at a few people and Gary was one who hadn’t been involved much recently.
“He put in a terrific performance. He was excellent.”
The midfielder is now expected to keep his place in the team for the home game against Fulham.
His effort and enthusiasm was not lost on Bruce and Gardner also showed his durability by ploughing forward late in the game to set up Jordan Ayew in what proved to be the decisive attack of the game.
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Nice gerunding of "rapport", 'skills. Arguably the best since Saranyu coined " funeraling".
Thanking you
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I'm a big fan and am on record as saying he's the best youth player I've ever seen, but, he needs to be a lot more than OK against Reading to silence the doubters. A move in the right direction mind.
He was , pre serious injuries , regarded by many outside Villa Park as one of the best youth player's in the Country , indeed , it was reported back when he was 18 , that Inter Milan were interested in him .....Godzvilla!
" Rafa Benitez mulling over shock bid for Aston Villa youngster Gary Gardner
as Inter Milan line up top English talent " .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1310102/Inter-Milans-Rafa-Benitez-mulling-shock-bid-Aston-Villa-youngster-Gary-Gardner.html
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I would nt swap Gardner for Wilshire. And i dont see many English chelsea man city arsenal liverpool or spurs players having one of their own in midfield who is on par with him or the potential at least at 23/24 . Ryan mason only one I could think of and he was moved on all the decent young players are from southampton these days.
If he pushes on the next 18 months be massive for him. Last we forget he was injured but before he was a captain and rates highly in football . There must be a reason we kept him and 5 years on after making debut great to see the progress!
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At 23/24 you should be well beyond 'potential'.
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He needs to perform consistently well to convince me.
I still think he's poor despite not seeing him play at Reading
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At 23/24 you should be well beyond 'potential'.
Whilst this is true, he's probably 24 months behind in terms of missed time through injury.
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It would be about bloody time that we have a player from our own ranks that starts to perform and be an excellent player. Would love him to be our most important player for years to come (and not get injured)
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He made the midweek EFL team.
Well done, GG!
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At 23/24 you should be well beyond 'potential'.
Whilst this is true, he's probably 24 months behind in terms of missed time through injury.
I think you're probably selling him short there, I suspect the 2 big injuries and then all the niggles since have cost him at least 3 years of development and put a lower cap on his potential than he had 5-6 years ago. I think he can still be a very good player at this level and a good squad player in the prem but I don't think he'll be the England regular he was destined to be as a teenager.
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At 23/24 you should be well beyond 'potential'.
Whilst this is true, he's probably 24 months behind in terms of missed time through injury.
I think you're probably selling him short there, I suspect the 2 big injuries and then all the niggles since have cost him at least 3 years of development and put a lower cap on his potential than he had 5-6 years ago. I think he can still be a very good player at this level and a good squad player in the prem but I don't think he'll be the England regular he was destined to be as a teenager.
Yeah the injuries have taken their toll, but it's one "youngster" who has the right attitude to succeed, he doesn't give up no matter what's thrown at him. Good luck GG stay fit and healthy and fulfill your potential.
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He made the midweek EFL team.
Well done, GG!
Yes let's give the boy deserved credit.
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If he can get into the form he showed at Forest consistently under Bruce, it will solve a big problem.
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Yep. There must be more than we've seen this season and the reading game was a good start
I still think I'd rather we hadn't sold Daniel Johnson though. I'm not sure Gardner was ever as good as the hype. From the limited stuff I saw of him at youth level he dominated partly through being more physically advanced and never had the quickness of feet that marks out top players?
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Not entirely sold on him as a regular mid yet...think he benefitted alot from playing with Bacuna against Reading. Bacuna is one of a very few players that seem to really excel in the lower level environment... Expected many other would but apart from Ayew and Bacuna they just adjusted down accordingly :(
Hope Gardner gets another chance against Fulham though...the alternative is someone who hasnt shown any progress in the right direction over the last 4 seasons (we all know who).
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Marton, who are you pointing your finger at?
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Everybody can have one good game so its unto him to show its not a one off ......
I don't think that he will ever make it with us but hope to be proved wrong
However although I didn't see Tuesdays game I would still prefer Tish in midfield tomorrow
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I thought he went quiet for a good chunk of the game, but stood up to be counted when we put the squeeze on in the last 15 minutes. Credit to him, he drove the game on in a way Westwood just hasn't since Norwich away 2013.
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Like so many he's much better in a 3 man central midfield.
RDM partnering him and Westwood in a two must be a tactical war crime.
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Like so many he's much better in a 3 man central midfield.
RDM partnering him and Westwood in a two must be a tactical war crime.
Weapons of pass destruction.
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Like so many he's much better in a 3 man central midfield.
RDM partnering him and Westwood in a two must be a tactical war crime.
Weapons of pass destruction.
That don't exist
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Seems to be growing into now, which is great.
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I'd finally finally written him off earlier in the season. I'd be happy to eat my hat if e keeps this up
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We are beginning to see a player now, early days but well done Gardner.
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Be nice if he could unleash a couple of his pile drivers into the top corner next week.
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Be nice if he could unleash a couple of his pile drivers into the top corner next week.
Wouldn't it!!
Tony Morley on the radio commentary yesterday said how a week ago he bumped into GG and he was a bit down in the dumps as he'd not played much and was just hoping that SB would give him a chance.
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He can't have any complaints about not playing more after his early performances
Ironically, the forest game was by far his best but he never came back in
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He can't have any complaints about not playing more after his early performances
Ironically, the forest game was by far his best but he never came back in
From the way Morley was talking GG was expecting to be on the side lines (just disappointed and hoping for a chance under the new manager) the jist was a week in football can be a long time and make a marked difference. You're right but to be fair to GG there was a fair list of players that had bad performances under RDM. It would probably be easier to list the better individual performances by players in games under RDM rather than the poor ones lol
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I'm happy for him that he is healthy and getting some consecutive games. He's proven to be more than adequate at Championship level but always for someone else. It will be good all round to see him contribute to us getting promoted. He loves the club so keep it going Garry.
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He's had to wait a fair while for his first Villa goal (unlucky at Derby when he hit the post).
His next goal is now due 30th August 2021. However, another one this Saturday will do nicely.
(http://i.imgur.com/DVqB68b.png)
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A little harsh on numbers 1, 2 and 5 who can probably blame the Kaiser/Hitler for their respective lack of goals in some of their years.
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A little harsh on numbers 1, 2 and 5 who can probably blame the Kaiser/Hitler for their respective lack of goals in some of their years.
Yep, you're right. I was not going to add them but changed my mind.
Also, Edwards scored loads during the war but no one counts them!
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Shouldn't Baker be on that list...he made his debut before Gardner.
Unless we're counting own goals which he's scored a couple!
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Shouldn't Baker be on that list...he made his debut before Gardner.
Unless we're counting own goals which he's scored a couple!
I think it's only once they get a goal that they're on the list.
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Obviously he scored a very good goal but that was all he contributed.Hasnt got hat we need in a midfielder I'm afraid.
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Obviously he scored a very good goal but that was all he contributed.Hasnt got hat we need in a midfielder I'm afraid.
Played very well at Reading and against Fulham. You can't write him off just like that, I thought he did ok yesterday and he probably missed Bacuna.
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He scored that banging header 8) and covered a lot of ground. No he didn't do much else of note is the truth but I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in remaining 2\3's of this season. One to watch closely.
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Me too. It was a bit tiresome watching him just knock the ball over the top without looking time and time again
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Have I told the story about his parents static caravan on here? I can't recall if I have or not.
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Do tell
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Have I told the story about his parents static caravan on here? I can't recall if I have or not.
They still keeping it in Oswestry?
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(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2166908.main_image.gif?strip=all)
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The boys bought Mom and Dad Gardner a static caravan that is pitched on the same road as mine at the Haven holidays site in Burnham on Sea. Apparently their representatives argued a hard bargain.
Anyhow, I wasn't aware of this until a Euros game last summer. I went to sling out some rubbish and looked through the open doors of one van on the way back. A couple of people looked familiar but I put it out of my mind.
It was only when I was told about our neighbours by the sales manager I put 2 and 2 together. The familiar chaps were Gary and Craig watching the game with their old man.
Anyhow, I ran into Daddy Gardner at the weekend. He reckons Gary is imminently due a pay rise and new contract.
And he has some new decking on order for next holiday season.
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One or two good moments in three or four games isn't worthy of a new contract.
He still has a lot to prove. He's not exactly great at this leve at the moment, so why give him a stupid contract if we're planning on going up where the Premier League, on current evidence, is clearly behind his level.
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I'm pleased for him to be doing ok. But it's no more than that. He'd be one of the first I'd want to replace with better quality
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I'm pleased for him to be doing ok. But it's no more than that. He'd be one of the first I'd want to replace with better quality
It'll be a shame if he can't improve sufficiently to hold down a first team spot, unfortunately I think too many injuries might have taken their toll already. I hope I'm wrong and that as a Villa supporting local lad he fulfills the talent he showed as a youth player.
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I agree it would be great. Hopefully he will improve a lot
But I just don't think he has the quality to play midfield at the top level
Really hope I'm wrong
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I'm pleased for him to be doing ok. But it's no more than that. He'd be one of the first I'd want to replace with better quality
I would go along with that. OK as a squad player at this level and we should be looking for better.
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Just signed a new contract apparently
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https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/12/23/gardner-signs-new-deal
Fuck me a new deal until 2020
The bloke is gash
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Why do we keep giving out contracts to players with no ability, Gabby, Westwood and now Gardner.
I was hoping under new owners this silly thing like this was finished with.
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Just signed a new contract apparently
Good news for the Haven Holidays caravan park.
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There must be a method to the madness!
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There must be a method to the madness!
Bruce obviously sees something in him. It also stops us losing him with no transfer fee if he does move in the next few years.
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My younger son predicted when Bruce arrived that players like Gardner and Hutton would be favoured. Slow but steady and strong was the mark of Bruce man, he said.
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There must be a method to the madness!
Bruce obviously sees something in him. It also stops us losing him with no transfer fee if he does move in the next few years.
Sounds like westwood
we will end up paying more in wages than we would recoup from a transfer fee
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The boys bought Mom and Dad Gardner a static caravan ....
It was only when I was told about our neighbours by the sales manager I put 2 and 2 together. The familiar chaps were Gary and Craig watching the game with their old man.
Anyhow, I ran into Daddy Gardner at the weekend. He reckons Gary is imminently due a pay rise and new contract.
And he was correct.
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Useful squad player, we need to get to a point that we have 5 players genuinely competing in the middle of the park, more than happy for Gardner to be one of those 5 just not at this point the first choice.
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The boys bought Mom and Dad Gardner a static caravan ....
It was only when I was told about our neighbours by the sales manager I put 2 and 2 together. The familiar chaps were Gary and Craig watching the game with their old man.
Anyhow, I ran into Daddy Gardner at the weekend. He reckons Gary is imminently due a pay rise and new contract.
And he was correct.
The static caravan is called Rudy.
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Mine had Eccles on it.
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If this gives him more belief that's good
But I've really not been impressed this season. His passing is awful
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https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/12/23/gardner-signs-new-deal
Fuck me a new deal until 2020
The bloke is gash
This is f**king madness, if Villa have more money than sense then chuck some my way!
This guy is finished and I used to be his biggest fan and was desperate for him to succeed but even I have realised that he will NEVER be the player I expected him to be, its just time to move on.
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If this is the future of Aston Villa I don't want to know, even in the championship he is bloody useless!
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Fuck me.
I'm thinking of dropping them a line asking for a four year deal for myself if it's that easy.
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
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Mine had Eccles on it.
I've still got an Eccles, it's and old bugger and served us well, was thinking of selling her but now might give her a reprieve.
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They are very collectable Ian. Eccles is credited with being the "inventor" of the car towed caravan.
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
Bruce was on the radio earlier and this was certainly one of the reasons:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5428141-aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-on-game-v-luton-but-first-he-talks-about-gary-gardners-new-deal
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
Bruce was on the radio earlier and this was certainly one of the reasons:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5428141-aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-on-game-v-luton-but-first-he-talks-about-gary-gardners-new-deal
But that is exactly why he is one of the lowest earners... because he is bloody useless and has no future at AVFC!
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
Bruce was on the radio earlier and this was certainly one of the reasons:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5428141-aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-on-game-v-luton-but-first-he-talks-about-gary-gardners-new-deal
But that is exactly why he is one of the lowest earners... because he is bloody useless and has no future at AVFC!
He shouldnt have a future as he is way out of his depth but a deal until 2020 suggests otherwise and having him even in matchday squad shows how low we have sunk
Even if it is too make sure we get a transfer fee from a lower half championship team or league one side it says a lot about our ambition
when we do go up apart from 3 or 4 players we need to replace the lot of them
Short term and lazy
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
Bruce was on the radio earlier and this was certainly one of the reasons:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5428141-aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-on-game-v-luton-but-first-he-talks-about-gary-gardners-new-deal
But that is exactly why he is one of the lowest earners... because he is bloody useless and has no future at AVFC!
He shouldnt have a future as he is way out of his depth but a deal until 2020 suggests otherwise and having him even in matchday squad shows how low we have sunk
Even if it is too make sure we get a transfer fee from a lower half championship team or league one side it says a lot about our ambition
when we do go up apart from 3 or 4 players we need to replace the lot of them
Short term and lazy
I'm still with jury at the moment, he's done it before in the Championship and I would hope he shows more now.
Perhaps a nice little screamer into the top corner on Monday please Garry . UTV
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
Bruce was on the radio earlier and this was certainly one of the reasons:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5428141-aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-on-game-v-luton-but-first-he-talks-about-gary-gardners-new-deal
But that is exactly why he is one of the lowest earners... because he is bloody useless and has no future at AVFC!
He shouldnt have a future as he is way out of his depth but a deal until 2020 suggests otherwise and having him even in matchday squad shows how low we have sunk
Even if it is too make sure we get a transfer fee from a lower half championship team or league one side it says a lot about our ambition
when we do go up apart from 3 or 4 players we need to replace the lot of them
Short term and lazy
I'm still with jury at the moment, he's done it before in the Championship and I would hope he shows more now.
Perhaps a nice little screamer into the top corner on Monday please Garry . UTV
it depends what you term as doing it
If its been ok for one season and shite for another whilst playing for a team in the lower half of the league then yes he has done it
Moving forward the likes of pointy and gardner shouldnt have a future with us, if they do there is no way we are going to get up and if we arent up in two seasons the parachute money is 15 odd million its a 50 million drop from the prem
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The odd screamer doesn't make up for his bad passing. Even more so at premier league level
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The odd screamer doesn't make up for his bad passing. Even more so at premier league level
If only he was as effective as your favourite Westwood. I see you managed to offer an argument for his inclusion in the side for Leeds.
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Even if it is too make sure we get a transfer fee from a lower half championship team or league one side it says a lot about our ambition
If that's the reason, doesn't it just say a lot about how we're finally employing common sense?
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I agree Dave. It's all about not giving saleable players away. Basic common sense. Basic business.
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I wonder if part of it is because he's earning sod all (by football standards). Having never been a regular first teamer none of his contracts will have been big and he probably had a relegation clause slice it in half so he could well have been pretty much the lowest earner in the squad.
Bruce was on the radio earlier and this was certainly one of the reasons:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5428141-aston-villa-boss-steve-bruce-on-game-v-luton-but-first-he-talks-about-gary-gardners-new-deal
When are we playing Luton?
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The odd screamer doesn't make up for his bad passing. Even more so at premier league level
If only he was as effective as your favourite Westwood. I see you managed to offer an argument for his inclusion in the side for Leeds.
I'd say neither of them are good enough for where I want us to be, even in the short term. Hopefully we might even do something about that this winter
But given two games in four days I'd rotate between them in these matches
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The odd screamer doesn't make up for his bad passing. Even more so at premier league level
If only he was as effective as your favourite Westwood. I see you managed to offer an argument for his inclusion in the side for Leeds.
I'd say neither of them are good enough for where I want us to be, even in the short term. Hopefully we might even do something about that this winter
But given two games in four days I'd rotate between them in these matches
Every time I see Westwood's name on the teamsheet a little piece of me dies. Soon I'll vanish. At least with Gardner there is the remote possibility he will contribute positively to the cause.
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I agree Dave. It's all about not giving saleable players away. Basic common sense. Basic business.
And just how much would we get for gardner? 2 million at a push?
What would he cost in wages? 20k a week? A million a year?
He had what a year left on a two year deal so why not a year? Why 3?
I look forward to teams banging on our door to sign him
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I agree Dave. It's all about not giving saleable players away. Basic common sense. Basic business.
And just how much would we get for gardner? 2 million at a push?
What would he cost in wages? 20k a week? A million a year?
He had what a year left on a two year deal so why not a year? Why 3?
I look forward to teams banging on our door to sign him
Does it really matter? Sounds like a bit of a whinge for the sake of it.
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I agree Dave. It's all about not giving saleable players away. Basic common sense. Basic business.
And just how much would we get for gardner? 2 million at a push?
What would he cost in wages? 20k a week? A million a year?
He had what a year left on a two year deal so why not a year? Why 3?
I look forward to teams banging on our door to sign him
Does it really matter? Sounds like a bit of a whinge for the sake of it.
Does it matter?
jesus wept
we give westwood who isnt a premier league player a 5 year deal to ensure he is under contract when all the bids come rolling in
A stupidly long deal for bacuna
the same for flabby
and now the same for gardner
this isnt some kind of financial master plan its stupidity
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I doubt he is on £3k a week. He would sell for £2 million minimum. Wait and see what is paid for bang average players in January.
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Like it's already been said (and by Bruce) he's been on a low wage compared to others and they wanted to give him more to bring him in line to what the others were getting. No, maybe we wont sell him for big money but that's ok. I'm fine with it and I was ok with the Bacuna deal. Westwood and Gabby were very lucky to get theirs though.
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It is not a financial master plan. It is not wasting money.
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I agree Dave. It's all about not giving saleable players away. Basic common sense. Basic business.
And just how much would we get for gardner? 2 million at a push?
What would he cost in wages? 20k a week? A million a year?
He had what a year left on a two year deal so why not a year? Why 3?
I look forward to teams banging on our door to sign him
Does it really matter? Sounds like a bit of a whinge for the sake of it.
Does it matter?
jesus wept
we give westwood who isnt a premier league player a 5 year deal to ensure he is under contract when all the bids come rolling in
A stupidly long deal for bacuna
the same for flabby
and now the same for gardner
this isnt some kind of financial master plan its stupidity
Even based on your own figures - a maximum of £3 million across the contract in wages, and a £2m transfer fee (which is probably on the low side), if we were to sell him at any point during the contract we would have lost very little if anything.
That is why it doesn't really matter.
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In a midfield 3, Gardner would be fine. As a two with Jedinak it's too slow. Gardner still has a part to play. The length of the deal is a little excessive, but as others have said, it's unlikely he'll see it out and I think we'll sell him eventually.
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Fair play to the lad. Why oh why do some get so dramatically wound up by it though?
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Beats me.
Good luck to him. Recovered from horrendous injuries, worked hard and the club have put their faith in him. I wish him well.
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I suppose giving him a new contract prevents him leaving on a free transfer down the line because from what I've seen from him he's not up to standard. We could get a million or two for him in the future.
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He was under contract for another two years so it's as I suggested, and thanks to the link provided by dekko, he was on a low wage. If him feeling more confident, happy, or however you want to word it, now that he has more parity with other players leads to him contributing to us being promoted then it's worth every penny.
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You need to also factor in the cost/value of his replacement, whether buying or from within the squad ...or accept Westwood with very little as an alternative.
He's not been brilliant but he could be the difference of signing two £4m players this January or one £8m player.
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I was trying to work out who Jack had come on for at half time today. Hadn't even realised GG was playing!
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Thought he did ok today. Tidy enough
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Just a squad player at this level.
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Just a squad player at this level.
I think both him and Westwood are only any use to us in the absence of Jedinak, they should never be in alongside as they offer zip going forward. Hopefully only a few days off rectifying the situation.
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Bruce keeps dropping grealish into centre mid for the last part of games, i do wonder if he is trying to develop him into a more all round midfielder.
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In a midfield 3, Gardner would be fine. As a two with Jedinak it's too slow. Gardner still has a part to play. The length of the deal is a little excessive, but as others have said, it's unlikely he'll see it out and I think we'll sell him eventually.
He's played in a midfield three quite a few times already this season and apart from a few flashes, has looked average at best.
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With 3 new midfielders brought in this window I hope Gardner ups his game. Feel he 'll be a useful squad member and get opportunities
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Lansbury
Hourihane
adomah
Grealish
green
jedinak
Bacuna
Bjarnason
Tshibola
westwood
Gardner is finished
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Well actually i feel his competition is:
Bjarnason
Lansbury
Hourihane
Jedinak
(Bacuna)
westwood
Tshibola
And that yes he can replace other players mentioned but these ones listed are in the same midfield area where Gardner operates .
Conor Hooray accumulates yellows as does lansbury .
Jedinak too . So these players will be suspended at times.
Feel Gardner can dove tail for the matches when needed.
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Lansbury
Hourihane
adomah
Grealish
green
jedinak
Bacuna
Bjarnason
Tshibola
Gardner is finished
Doubtful, he's just signed a new deal
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He's just signed a new contract so Bruce sees him as part of the first team set up
But I'd be surprised if he's still of that view in 12 months time
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Him and Westwood will be like old tins of chicken soup, kept at the back of the cupboard in the off chance there was a nuclear war, which of course Westwood would survive.
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The length of the new contract was bizarre
Time will tell but im betting that gardner doesnt make the bench
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Him and Westwood will be like old tins of chicken soup, kept at the back of the cupboard in the off chance there was a nuclear war, which of course Westwood would survive.
Haha very good but please dont forget those who don't like chicken !
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ha, ha........ashley minestrone. tasty.
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I see westwood more as a Subbuteo piece on a chess board.
in fact at times at vp I think a Subbuteo piece would have given more.
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I see westwood more as a Subbuteo piece on a chess board.
in fact at times at vp I think a Subbuteo piece would have given more.
It would have more physical presence though its a dead heat with my little pony
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my little pointy ? winky thingy.
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The length of the new contract was bizarre
Time will tell but im betting that gardner doesnt make the bench
Why bizarre?
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The length of the new contract was bizarre
Time will tell but im betting that gardner doesnt make the bench
Why bizarre?
Because he is not up to the job and gets 4 years, why not 2?
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The length of the new contract was bizarre
Time will tell but im betting that gardner doesnt make the bench
Why bizarre?
Because he is not up to the job and gets 4 years, why not 2?
Probably helps us get a better fee when we sell him.
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Exactly SH. The reason for giving young journeyman players long contracts is sound business, a skill long missing at Villa Park.
You get two bites at the cherry. The young player might mature into a better, first team regular.. If he does not he retains sell on value. Deduct the wages paid from the fee received and a modest profit probably accrues. The alternative is the RHM scenario where we put all the time and money into a young player only to see him walk on a free. Gary Gardner is a perfectly adequate player for a lower league club, why give him away?
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The length of the new contract was bizarre
Time will tell but im betting that gardner doesnt make the bench
Why bizarre?
Because he is not up to the job and gets 4 years, why not 2?
Probably helps us get a better fee when we sell him.
And if we dont we are left with another player on too long a deal as we are with westwood, bacuna, gabby
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The difference is that we already know other clubs rate Gary Gardner. Forest would bite our hand off for him. Preston fans in the Barton's last Saturday could not believe we let Callum Robinson go.
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Exactly SH. The reason for giving young journeyman players long contracts is sound business, a skill long missing at Villa Park.
You get two bites at the cherry. The young player might mature into a better, first team regular.. If he does not he retains sell on value. Deduct the wages paid from the fee received and a modest profit probably accrues. The alternative is the RHM scenario where we put all the time and money into a young player only to see him walk on a free. Gary Gardner is a perfectly adequate player for a lower league club, why give him away?
Perish the thought that he may think ill never play for a club as big as us (which he wont), i wont get the same wages anywhere else so ill sit on my four year deal thanks very much
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The difference is that we already know other clubs rate Gary Gardner. Forest would bite our hand off for him. Preston fans in the Barton's last Saturday could not believe we let Callum Robinson go.
Do you honestly think forest could match what we are paying him?
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The difference is that we already know other clubs rate Gary Gardner. Forest would bite our hand off for him. Preston fans in the Barton's last Saturday could not believe we let Callum Robinson go.
Do you honestly think forest could match what we are paying him?
that is a different problem. We need to stop overpaying average players. If players are replaceable, then give them average wages, if players are crucial, such as Benteke, then by all means give then top dollar. I wouldn't say any of the current squad are crucial so players on 40k+ per week just seems crazy for a division 2 team
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I think we've seen exactly how crucial kodjia is to us since he's been away.
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I think we've seen exactly how crucial kodjia is to us since he's been away.
We've missed him more than I thought we would. I thought McCormack would come in and do a good job but we know what happened there.
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I think we've seen exactly how crucial kodjia is to us since he's been away.
I agree that we have missed him, and I really like him. And yes, he is very important to us at this level, as I think Lansbury could well be based upon Saturdays performance. But the wages need to reflect the level that we are at. Giving these players 40k + per week is just madness. If we get promoted, then we will end up with another bunch of players not good enough on big wages, long contracts. I know its hypothetical on us getting promoted but crikey, we are still being a gravy train if the reported wages being dished out are correct
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I'll be interested to see how GG does with better and different types of midfield players around him, rather than alongside Westwood. Over the last couple of seasons, has any midfield player not struggled when played alongside Westwood.
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I'll be interested to see how GG does with better and different types of midfield players around him, rather than alongside Westwood. Over the last couple of seasons, has any midfield player not struggled when played alongside Westwood.
I actually thought Westwood did ok first half on Saturday with the more mobile than what we are used to Lansbury alongside him. Its all about balance I guess
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The difference is that we already know other clubs rate Gary Gardner. Forest would bite our hand off for him. Preston fans in the Barton's last Saturday could not believe we let Callum Robinson go.
Do you honestly think forest could match what we are paying him?
that is a different problem. We need to stop overpaying average players. If players are replaceable, then give them average wages, if players are crucial, such as Benteke, then by all means give then top dollar. I wouldn't say any of the current squad are crucial so players on 40k+ per week just seems crazy for a division 2 team
It is linked though, if gardner is on 20k a week then he isnt going to leave for 15
Yes a long contract means we get a fee but if the weekly wage is decent there is no incentive for him to leave and why should he as we have agreed to pay him x amount for 4 years
the reason gabby hasnt moved is because no one will pay him anything like what he will get here
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The difference is that we already know other clubs rate Gary Gardner. Forest would bite our hand off for him. Preston fans in the Barton's last Saturday could not believe we let Callum Robinson go.
Do you honestly think forest could match what we are paying him?
that is a different problem. We need to stop overpaying average players. If players are replaceable, then give them average wages, if players are crucial, such as Benteke, then by all means give then top dollar. I wouldn't say any of the current squad are crucial so players on 40k+ per week just seems crazy for a division 2 team
It is linked though, if gardner is on 20k a week then he isnt going to leave for 15
Yes a long contract means we get a fee but if the weekly wage is decent there is no incentive for him to leave and why should he as we have agreed to pay him x amount for 4 years
the reason gabby hasnt moved is because no one will pay him anything like what he will get here
I think we are saying the same thing but coming from different sides. A 4 year contract on a reasonable wages is ok, a 4 year contract on an inflated wage is a problem
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The difference is that we already know other clubs rate Gary Gardner. Forest would bite our hand off for him. Preston fans in the Barton's last Saturday could not believe we let Callum Robinson go.
Do you honestly think forest could match what we are paying him?
that is a different problem. We need to stop overpaying average players. If players are replaceable, then give them average wages, if players are crucial, such as Benteke, then by all means give then top dollar. I wouldn't say any of the current squad are crucial so players on 40k+ per week just seems crazy for a division 2 team
It is linked though, if gardner is on 20k a week then he isnt going to leave for 15
Yes a long contract means we get a fee but if the weekly wage is decent there is no incentive for him to leave and why should he as we have agreed to pay him x amount for 4 years
the reason gabby hasnt moved is because no one will pay him anything like what he will get here
I think we are saying the same thing but coming from different sides. A 4 year contract on a reasonable wages is ok, a 4 year contract on an inflated wage is a problem
Definately
Forest due to ffp could only offer him 10k a week and i would think we are paying him double that
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I cannot imagine either the club would have paid or GG expected over the odds for his recent contract - £15-20k pw max (sounds alot until you compare it with others).
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On his way out apparently. Not travelled on the tour.
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Before last season I always had high hopes for GG, wasn't to be, pastures new may revive his career. What ever happens top guy and good luck to him
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Awful bad luck with injuries, but has never really looked the part.
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Might be a few reasons that he is staying at home, but if he is on his way then good luck to him. Had really high hopes for him, but I thought he struggled badly at times last season and probably needs to move on at this point.
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Hasn't really looked good enough, but if he goes he leaves with my best wishes for his future*. One of those 'what if' players. So highly rated as a youngster but those two ACL injuries did for him before his career had even really started.
*I reserve the right to change that if he follows his brother's choice of clubs.
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Good luck to the guy. It was clear to me after seeing his performances on loan at Forest it wasn't going to work out with us but I hope he finds a club and a role that works for him.
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I hope we include a sell on clause just in case. I agree with others though, probably be a really good League One player, or lower down the Championship.
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I hope we include a sell on clause just in case. I agree with others though, probably be a really good League One player, or lower down the Championship.
He was lower down the Championship last season...unlol.
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I think the time has come for Gardner to move on, think there is still a good player in there but he needs to go somewhere where he can get that 15-20 game run in a slightly less pressurised environment.
Obviously he scored 'that goal' but in hindsight after his injuries he needed a year in league one playing week in week out rather getting 20/25 minutes one week then a start a couple of weeks later.
Hope he fulfills his potential of 5/6 years ago but just can't see that being here now.
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He's crap. Get a bit of coin and move on.
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He's crap. Get a bit of coin and move on.
Harsh
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He's crap. Get a bit of coin and move on.
Harsh
No team anywhere near the promotion places will have a player as limited as Gardner.
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Tough business professional football. He's not an asset in helping reach the premiership
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Yep, limited.
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Maybe would have had a better chance had he been raised around a midfield During the early / mid 90s, but certainly has been poor around a shocking squad for years.
Good luck but being a Villain isn't enough.
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He had a big opportunity last year and didn't take it. Good luck Gary.
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I had such high hopes but he's slow and poor in possession. Goid luck to him he's always been respectful
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He did o.k at the start of SB's reign and then we of course gave him a 4 year deal. Interested to see if he goes out permanently, I'd assume so giveng he's been out on loan several times.
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Sorry to say but he's slow, sloppy in possession and doesn't have quick enough feet
Injuries a big problem but I think he may have also just physically matured more than his contemporaries and that made him so dominant at 18-19
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Seem to remember that in the few games he had under McLeish in the PL, getting around the pitch wasn't a problem for him, whereas nowadays he really does look like he's playing in slow motion.
Tough one, but the way the squad is it'd be a waste of everyone's time to not bin him
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Awful bad luck with injuries, but has never really looked the part.
That pretty much sums up my feelings too.
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Awful bad luck with injuries, but has never really looked the part.
That pretty much sums up my feelings too.
Yep, me too. I remember watching him at Sheff Wed last season, lots of talk about how excited he was, how up for it he was etc. He was terrible. Strollled around, barely breaking into a jog. Some short passes, that was it.
I wish him well, but time to part company.
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Let's face it he's never been any good and was overrated from day one. Dare I say he wasn't even as good as his brother. At least he had one good asset with his shooting, which is up there with the best.
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Let's face it he's never been any good and was overrated from day one. Dare I say he wasn't even as good as his brother. At least he had one good asset with his shooting, which is up there with the best.
Maybe he was overrated or maybe he deserved to be rated before his injuries. Either way he clearly isn't rated much at all now.
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Let's face it he's never been any good and was overrated from day one. Dare I say he wasn't even as good as his brother. At least he had one good asset with his shooting, which is up there with the best.
Maybe he was overrated or maybe he deserved to be rated before his injuries. Either way he clearly isn't rated much at all now.
Was there ever a time before his injuries? I don't ever remember a decent performance from him. All I remember was that he was highly rated as a youth team player which never materialised into the first team.
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He was an excellent prospect coming out of the academy. He had a couple of decent loan spells. He will be a decent Championship or good League one player who will score the odd belter if he stays healthy.
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Let's face it he's never been any good and was overrated from day one. Dare I say he wasn't even as good as his brother. At least he had one good asset with his shooting, which is up there with the best.
Maybe he was overrated or maybe he deserved to be rated before his injuries. Either way he clearly isn't rated much at all now.
Was there ever a time before his injuries? I don't ever remember a decent performance from him. All I remember was that he was highly rated as a youth team player which never materialised into the first team.
He played well on his debut at Wolves, I was at that game (robbie Keane one). Didn't he also play a part in the Weimann last minute winner v Fulham which effectively kept us up. So that's two decent cameos in a handful of games he got in 11/12.
Then he got injured and I can't honestly remember him playing for us until start of last season.
Around that time he was playing well for the England age groups.
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He was highly rated before his injuries, within and outside the club. Rafa Benitez was rumoured to be looking at him when he was Inter manager.
It's a real shame the injuries and no doubt associated lack of confidence happened, he was our most-talented Villa-bred since Luke or Lee.
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He was highly rated before his injuries, within and outside the club. Rafa Benitez was rumoured to be looking at him when he was Inter manager.
It's a real shame the injuries and no doubt associated lack of confidence happened, he was our most-talented Villa-bred since Luke or Lee.
More than Jack? Really?
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He was highly rated before his injuries, within and outside the club. Rafa Benitez was rumoured to be looking at him when he was Inter manager.
It's a real shame the injuries and no doubt associated lack of confidence happened, he was our most-talented Villa-bred since Luke or Lee.
More than Jack? Really?
I'm guessing Lee refers to Hendrie? Vassell was after that and has 22 England caps to his name!
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No way - you can tell jack has great talent within 30 seconds of watching him play
Gardner just doesn't have the same touch at all
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He was very highly rated before his first ACL when he was 17, I remember that the talk was of him being rated a lot higher at that age than Craig was. There were still high hopes for him after he came back from that and before he did the other ACL. Losing the best part of 2 years and doing both of them between 17 and 21 did for him.
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He was very highly rated before his first ACL when he was 17, I remember that the talk was of him being rated a lot higher at that age than Craig was. There were still high hopes for him after he came back from that and before he did the other ACL. Losing the best part of 2 years and doing both of them between 17 and 21 did for him.
As it would just about anybody. That he's had any kind of career after those serious injuries at crucial times shows how much of a great prospect he was and how determined has been to play here. Time to move on now, but he's had / is having a career, so despite it being a shame, good luck with the rest of it.
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Hasn't really looked good enough, but if he goes he leaves with my best wishes for his future*. One of those 'what if' players. So highly rated as a youngster but those two ACL injuries did for him before his career had even really started.
*I reserve the right to change that if he follows his brother's choice of clubs.
Exactly
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Think he may come good later on if he can get regular football somewhere and stay fit, not good enough for us in my opinion. Hope he gets a move soon.
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Jack came after Gary, so wasn't including him. Had forgotten about Darius but I think Gardner at 17/18 was arguably talked about more than I remember Vassell being bigged-up (the match-saving goals he scored against Stromsgodset apart).
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Shame as I had high hopes for him last season following good performances on loan at Forrest. I think it probably is best for him to move on and build a lower league career now, though in fairness he was far from our worst performer last season.
Good luck
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No way - you can tell jack has great talent within 30 seconds of watching him play
Gardner just doesn't have the same touch at all
Different players...and Jack ain't pulling up mountains
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Ah yes, the old sayings are the best...'aint pulling up mountains.
Not heard that used for a while now
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Ah yes, the old sayings are the best...'aint pulling up mountains.
Not heard that used for a while now
Is that like 'moving trees'!
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Ah yes, the old sayings are the best...'aint pulling up mountains.
Not heard that used for a while now
Is that like 'moving trees'!
entre l’arbre et l’écorce il ne faut pas mettre le doigt
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at 25 now and not done a great deal, I know he's had injuries in the past but he's not good enough for the villa in my opinion, I feel he needs a move for the sake of his own career.
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Is he really 25? I had him down as 21ish.
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Is he really 25? I had him down as 21ish.
He made his debut for us in December 2011. He'd already played on loan at Coventry start of season.
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He still feels like a kid trying to break through to me, I genuinly didn't realise he was now 25.
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It does feel like that. Estimate is that he's lost nearly three seasons to injury which is a ridiculous amount for someone in their mid 20s.
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His time was when he came back from Forest the first time having been good, then that coward from Swindon chopped him down in a pre season friendly and he has not got his mobility back.
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The boys bought Mom and Dad Gardner a static caravan ....
It was only when I was told about our neighbours by the sales manager I put 2 and 2 together. The familiar chaps were Gary and Craig watching the game with their old man.
Anyhow, I ran into Daddy Gardner at the weekend. He reckons Gary is imminently due a pay rise and new contract.
And he was correct.
The static caravan is called Rudy.
It must have been a decent pay rise. Mom and Dad have some new decking.
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For everyone thinking it’s all bad news at the minute. Welcome back Gary Gardner.
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Yes one of our own Gary Gards was nicely involved for the Villa goal v west ham.
He can show touches of intelligent play and whatever happens was super great for all that goal v blouse.
Oh GG what could have been . 26 now. An age where one must be established or have established themselves as to level of player .
Of course I think injury have severely stopped his potential as well as others being selected and trusted more.only 33 appearances at Villa from 2011 .
I love it if he was able to step up and be a Henderson or something .
Jack Wilshire is 26 . He has potential but does Gary .
So at 26 some of the world's best is neymar, salah, son, eriksen, veratti, isco. I'm not saying Gardner was to be ever this high levels but the hat trick in nextgen Europe v ajax and him being joint top scorer in the junior champions league really had him as a one to develop.
Is it now or never for Gardner ?
Is on ontract to stay until 2020 these last 18 months have to be it?
Good luck to him whatever happens .
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Is that right? 33 appearances in 7 years?! How is he even still here? This tells you everything you need to know about why we are where we are right now.
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Is that right? 33 appearances in 7 years?! How is he even still here? This tells you everything you need to know about why we are where we are right now.
I looked it up.
But yes seems the case
Taken over from Gabby as the Villa academy player that just hangs around
Granted he goes out on loan and is not even touching the wage Gabby was on.
I don't know if can get anything other than a mil or 2 so wonder if he stays on til his contract runs out or loaned out till his contract runs out more likely .
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Is that right? 33 appearances in 7 years?! How is he even still here? This tells you everything you need to know about why we are where we are right now.
He's still here because we gave him a decent contract while he was recovering from injury, which certainly does tell you everything you need to know about the Villa now, yesterday and I hope tomorrow. Since then he's spent most of his time on loan so he's hardly been a drain on either our wage bill or the coaching staff
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ftp://
Is that right? 33 appearances in 7 years?! How is he even still here? This tells you everything you need to know about why we are where we are right now.
He's still here because we gave him a decent contract while he was recovering from injury, which certainly does tell you everything you need to know about the Villa now, yesterday and I hope tomorrow. Since then he's spent most of his time on loan so he's hardly been a drain on either our wage bill or the coaching staff
Looking after our own . Such a good point !
Can't imagine how tough it's been for Gards especially with his potential making it even more frustrating .
I like to think he would be looked after but also needs football so will be interesting to see how this window goes . I guess there's some room if he performs as it's shown that Bruce rewards those players and rightly so.
It's about opportunity .
And again getting an acknowledgement by the Villa and how they played fair with Gary is a tribute worth mentioning thanks never saw it that way !
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Another great reason why H &V and posters are so good , offering many decent insights . Also we do so well in variation and opinions ! Nice touch !!
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His last contract was signed December 2016. It was because he was fit, playing and was said at the time that it was to give him some pay parity.
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What I find frustrating is that he was playing fairly regularly, we gave him a new contract and then Bruce signed 3 central midfielders 1 window and 2 more the next, that's the lack of planning that sums up his approach to the game.
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He is part of that Solihull football group who look after each other: Gardner brothers, Ridgewell,Bruce and his son, it’s got that stench of Nose about it unfortunately. He didn’t even ask for pay rise, didn’t justify one but SB said something like ‘it was fair as he wasn’t paid the same as the others’. Hmmm.
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What I find frustrating is that he was playing fairly regularly, we gave him a new contract and then Bruce signed 3 central midfielders 1 window and 2 more the next, that's the lack of planning that sums up his approach to the game.
There's plenty to be frustrated about. Bruce signing players over Gary Gardner isn't one of them.
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Giving him a new contract and then buying other midfielders is the point I took from Paul's post.
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Seems to be having a good pre season.
Certainly did well when he came on vrs WHU
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I have always been a big advocate for Gardner after watching how good he was at youth level - the injuries, particularly that cowardly challenge in a pre season game at Swindon have completely stunted his progress.
Was popular in loans at both Forest and Barnsley but was never gonna get and never will get that
15 game run that he would need to see if he could own a place in our side.
We have a lot of very similar ability central midfield players of which Gardner is one who potentially has a small value it is a good time to sell him if there is a buyer. It is time to let the likes of Doyle-Hayes provide competition to the likes of Whelan, Hourihane & Bjarnasson
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Giving him a new contract and then buying other midfielders is the point I took from Paul's post.
I get the point he was making but just because we gave someone a new contract shouldn't mean the manager can't bring in his own players as well.
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Giving him a new contract and then buying other midfielders is the point I took from Paul's post.
I get the point he was making but just because we gave someone a new contract shouldn't mean the manager can't bring in his own players as well.
Give him a new contract, or let walk away on a free?
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clearly the latter
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Giving him a new contract and then buying other midfielders is the point I took from Paul's post.
I get the point he was making but just because we gave someone a new contract shouldn't mean the manager can't bring in his own players as well.
No but giving someone a new contract and then signing 5 new players in his position over the next 7-8 months is taking that to an extreme. If we'd signing 1-2 midfielders I'd be fine with Gardner getting a new contract just before the window but giving someone a new contract and then replacing him (and sending him out on loan) a few weeks later is stupid when he was 25 at the time.
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Bearing in mind he sold Westwood and didnt think Tishbola was good enough, just Gary Gardner and Jedinak would have left us short. The midfield neeeded revamping anyway.
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Bearing in mind he sold Westwood and didnt think Tishbola was good enough, just Gary Gardner and Jedinak would have left us short. The midfield neeeded revamping anyway.
Which really isn't the point, I said signing a couple of midfielders was fine. I'm talking about the size of the squad and the impact of it on our wage bill. We keep hearing about how much we need to save to meet FFP and how big our wage bill is and you don't see a problem with throwing contracts around like confetti?
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Giving him a new contract and then buying other midfielders is the point I took from Paul's post.
I get the point he was making but just because we gave someone a new contract shouldn't mean the manager can't bring in his own players as well.
No but giving someone a new contract and then signing 5 new players in his position over the next 7-8 months is taking that to an extreme. If we'd signing 1-2 midfielders I'd be fine with Gardner getting a new contract just before the window but giving someone a new contract and then replacing him (and sending him out on loan) a few weeks later is stupid when he was 25 at the time.
I think the train of thought at the time was to sign younger players who could possibly sold on long contracts to maximise their selling price. Worked with Westwood, but they haven't been able to shift Gardner yet.
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I have always been a big advocate for Gardner after watching how good he was at youth level - the injuries, particularly that cowardly challenge in a pre season game at Swindon have completely stunted his progress.
Was popular in loans at both Forest and Barnsley but was never gonna get and never will get that
15 game run that he would need to see if he could own a place in our side.
We have a lot of very similar ability central midfield players of which Gardner is one who potentially has a small value it is a good time to sell him if there is a buyer. It is time to let the likes of Doyle-Hayes provide competition to the likes of Whelan, Hourihane & Bjarnasson
Which is how the structure should work. Give younger players their chance and if they are not up to scratch after a couple of seasons, move them on for a fee and bring the next ones through. The ones that are good enough hopefully become fixtures in the squad and take it forward.
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I wonder if the better informed than me consider he could play a sole holding role in dront of a back three? Pace would not be an issue.
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Get rid...asap
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agree with that succinct summary
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I wonder if the better informed than me consider he could play a sole holding role in dront of a back three? Pace would not be an issue.
Not really Steve, plus Jedinak, Whelan and Bjarnason are all ahead of him in that position. I would rather we tried to move him on give Lyden and Doyle-Hayes a chance as back up to the more senior players.
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I wrote him off well over a year ago. And I don't think he ripped up any trees at barnsley. One goal I think?
But I admit he's looked a lot better this pre season than previous ones. Normally he gives the ball away constantly and has a first touch like an elephant
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Surely Salford city would take him to bolster their squad. Please go!
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he is going to end up our longest serving player isn't he ?
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he is going to end up our longest serving player isn't he ?
Not only that but he is on course to be the first player to qualify for a testimonial having played less games for us in the seven years since his debut (33) than he has out on loan to other clubs (74).
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Must be poor if not even someone like Barnsley don't want him. Shame as he was a great prospect.
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I wonder if the better informed than me consider he could play a sole holding role in dront of a back three? Pace would not be an issue.
Think Barnsley and Forest played him in that postion and he did o.k at both.
Both clubs were battling relegation though.
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Must be poor if not even someone like Barnsley don't want him. Shame as he was a great prospect.
Maybe knowing us we pay too much in wages for these clubs to match ?
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We gave him a big new contract half way through Bruce's first season
Within 6 months Bruce had realised hes not good enough but by now we'd priced him out of the market
Classic villa
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Didn't Bruce get him the new contract when he scored at the sty
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I've no idea what we're paying him, but can't imagine it's silly money. I can certainly understand the logic of giving him a contract rather than letting him walk for free. He is young, pre-injury was always an exciting prospect and had seemed to do well at Forest. If we had let him go on a free I imagine there would have been a lot of criticism for that too. The gamble doesn't seem yo have come off, but it seemed a pretty sensible one at the time.
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His contract wasn't running out iirc. Bruce just said he deserved parrot with our other first team players
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His contract wasn't running out iirc. Bruce just said he deserved parrot with our other first team players
"deserved parrot": is that colloquial for 'talking bollocks'?
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I've no idea what we're paying him, but can't imagine it's silly money. I can certainly understand the logic of giving him a contract rather than letting him walk for free. He is young, pre-injury was always an exciting prospect and had seemed to do well at Forest. If we had let him go on a free I imagine there would have been a lot of criticism for that too. The gamble doesn't seem yo have come off, but it seemed a pretty sensible one at the time.
I can’t imagine there’d have been any criticism at all for letting him go, the lad is crap.
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His contract wasn't running out iirc. Bruce just said he deserved parrot with our other first team players
"deserved parrot": is that colloquial for 'talking bollocks'?
Deserved parity!
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His contract wasn't running out iirc. Bruce just said he deserved parrot with our other first team players
If he deserved parrot does that mean we paid him in pieces of eight?
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Gary Gardner joining Birmingham City on loan . Hope he would have tried elsewhere but he had a few share of loans and clubs !
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Interesting choice of loan clubs. Is he going to tell us he’s always been a nose?
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They signed Lee Camp yesterday, I though they were under an umbongo-embargo?
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Poor Gary, he doesn't deserve that..
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Poor fucker
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Agent Gardner, you know what you have to do. Good luck!
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Career change then for Gary.
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By the age of 26, most people have given up on their dream of running away to join the circus.
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By the age of 26, most people have given up on their dream of running away to join the circus.
Very good.
He didn't move for Footballing reasons ha.
Seems like he's on a sabbatical and keeping it local
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they will love him at the temple of doom...
UTV
The Doc
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Gary's Twitter profile photos are of that goal......he'll go down like the Titanic over there..
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Amazing how much hope we all had for this kid and now it's come down to this.
I hope he does ok and maybe we can get a small fee for him.
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Amazing how much hope we all had for this kid and now it's come down to this.
I hope he does ok and maybe we can get a small fee for him.
Hard to know whether injuries have done for him, or if he's just nowhere near as good as we first thought. A move out is the best for him though, he's never going to cut it here.
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Amazing how much hope we all had for this kid and now it's come down to this.
I hope he does ok and maybe we can get a small fee for him.
Can I just say, if he goes there, I really hope he doesn't do OK.
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I hope we don’t hear ‘I have always been............’
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Is he in the final year of his contract? Would feel sorry for him this time next year farming him out to another club yet again. He seems trapped in some Truman Show set in the English Midlands.
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He's like a 40 yr old who still lives with his parent who has the odd holiday every year. When will he ever leave for good.
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Two years ago watching our opening game at Hillsborough atop a couple of stools in a bar in Lanzarote my Brother In Law pointed out that Gardner continually got caught on the wrong side of his man and then ended up commiting a foul. I'd never noticed that before but noticed it every time he played thereafter, he is just a limited player I suppose. It goes without saying I wish him all the worst in Bordesley and hope he doesn't end up chatting shit like his brother.
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As a kid it killed me to see Bremner, Mortimer and Morley wearing a Small Heath shirt but I don't think seeing Gary Gardner wearing royal blue will upset me much. You just know that the first thought of the noses is the stick they could give us if he scores the goal that keeps them up.
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I normally wish our loan signings well. I'm struggling to do so on this occasion, I'll be honest.
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Bolton & QPR, Decent medium sized clubs, good enough for either.
The other option is when all the proper supermarkets are shut and you have to use the local shop which only has out of date goods that nobody else wants.
Can't say I'll wish Gary all the best if he decides to go there and end his footballing ambitions today.
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Poor sod.
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They will probably hate him no matter how he performs for them.
He must be brave or stupid
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Amazing how much hope we all had for this kid and now it's come down to this.
I hope he does ok and maybe we can get a small fee for him.
Agreed.
Several years' ago he was the Real Deal and I think injuries and maybe a natural lack of pace did for him.
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Why are we helping these fuckers out with loaning them players? We shouldn’t be loaning them the steam off our piss.
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Why are we helping these fuckers out with loaning them players? We shouldn’t be loaning them the steam off our piss.
From what I've seen of him we're doing them no favours, just chucking weight onto the sinking ship.
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Good luck to him, as I see it they will be bottom half of the table so if he helps them take a few points off our rivals I’ll be happy
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I feel for him a bit, so much potential before those injuries did for him and now at 26 he's considering giving up being a professional footballer.
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Gone to BCFC - officially on the AVFC twitter - loan 1 year
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That's a worse fate than being dumped into a bomb squad, poor bastard.
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Always been a Blues fan...
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How on earth will they treat him over there? He’s a “dirty viler”
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How on earth will they treat him over there? He’s a “dirty viler”
There is really only one way - and that is to claim he always was a blues, just like his brother - can't see them ignoring him being a Villa fan
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Congratulations Gary on achieving your lifetime ambition.
Daft move by the club and the individual, he'll never be welcome back at Villa after this.
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Congratulations Gary on achieving your lifetime ambition.
Daft move by the club and the individual, he'll never be welcome back at Villa after this.
Harsh if not sarcasm.
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I feel the same about this as I did when Ridgewell went there I.e. not even giving the remotest of shits.
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The Undead will no doubt be phoning WM soon about their new loan...
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Last year of his contract I think, therefore, not to be seen in Villa colours again. Good luck Gary.
On another note, the beauty of this transfer is that we all know that it doesn't improve them. And he can't play against us.
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my son met the Gardners cousins out in ayia Napa a few years ago
they told him the whole family was bluenose but because they had come through the Villa academy they had mixed allegiances
bit like Lee Hendry I suppose I think he came from a nose family
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Doubt he's a Blues fan, especially after his actions following his headed goal against. Never seen a Villa player run the full length of the pitch to celebrate with the fans.
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Doubt he's a Blues fan, especially after his actions following his headed goal against. Never seen a Villa player run the full length of the pitch to celebrate with the fans.
Savo at Blackburn.
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You know what to do now Gazza. I expect relegation come April.
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That's a worse fate than being dumped into a bomb squad, poor bastard.
Poor lad must be gutted. Going back to when he was a kid he was always tipped as being something special. The injuries obviously never helped but to end up at that dump is an insult to his talent. God knows how he's coping with the idea of spending a season there. It's really sad to see but it's obviously better than having your career ended through a nasty injury. At least he's still playing football but it must feel like his dreams and his career have pretty much ended.
Scoring for his beloved Villa against the Rags at the Sty and the joy of running the length of the pitch to celebrate with the fans will comfort him. Plus, being local, he'll be able to pop over to see the lads when he gets the chance. Couldn't do that if you were playing for Barnsley or Rochdale.
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I'm sure I have seen him Tweet something along the lines of "Villa 'Til I Die" or something similar.
Useless tosser
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Doubt he's a Blues fan, especially after his actions following his headed goal against. Never seen a Villa player run the full length of the pitch to celebrate with the fans.
Savo at Blackburn.
Henders at Highbury
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Oh Gary, what have you done?
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I'm sure I have seen him Tweet something along the lines of "Villa 'Til I Die" or something similar.
Useless tosser
His photo is on Twitter stretching the shirt with:
#bcfc #kro
A Villa fan would never do the second one.
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To his credit, at least he hasn't just stayed put to pick up his wages like certain other players would have done. I feel sorry for him going to that rabble, but at least he'll be playing football. Well, of a sort I suppose. I wish him luck because he's never been any trouble, and I'm absolutely certain that he's not even good enough to remotely improve them.
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I'm not getting all this animosity towards GG. OK, we all know he never developed into the player we all hoped he would for whatever reason. The fact that he has had several loans and no follow-up offer to purchase says it all for me. He no doubt has professional pride and sees playing regularly better than kicking his heels at the Villa where he clearly isn't wanted so has opted to move on loan to, and I don't know for sure, probably the only club to come in for him. If, as someone has said, he is in the last year of his contract; we won't be seeing him again and that should be enough. Good luck GG, I wish you well and thanks for your efforts for the Villa.
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I'm sure I have seen him Tweet something along the lines of "Villa 'Til I Die" or something similar.
Useless tosser
His photo is on Twitter stretching the shirt with:
#bcfc #kro
A Villa fan would never do the second one.
He hasn't posted that himself though, he hasn't tweeted at all since 2016.
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If there was ever a club suited to Gardner's talents, it's the Blues. He'll make a good living, being a steady Eddie.
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I'm sure I have seen him Tweet something along the lines of "Villa 'Til I Die" or something similar.
Useless tosser
His photo is on Twitter stretching the shirt with:
#bcfc #kro
A Villa fan would never do the second one.
He hasn't posted that himself though, he hasn't tweeted at all since 2016.
Exactly.
I am on there as Lead Kindly Light leader of The revolutionary army of the infant Jesus and we have Twelvety Squilion followers.
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Adopted #kro pretty quickly.
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Adopted #kro pretty quickly.
Where?
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That's a worse fate than being dumped into a bomb squad, poor bastard.
He will be dumped into a bum squad.
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A great talent a few years ago until injuries wrecked his chances. Who knows how good he could of been.
A bottom 6 Championship club is probably his level.
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He's tried. He will improve them. Which says more about them than anything.
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Adopted #kro pretty quickly.
Where?
It appears to stem from his Instagram account
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I'm sure I have seen him Tweet something along the lines of "Villa 'Til I Die" or something similar.
Useless tosser
His photo is on Twitter stretching the shirt with:
#bcfc #kro
He has put it on his Instagram account.
A Villa fan would never do the second one.
He hasn't posted that himself though, he hasn't tweeted at all since 2016.
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22gards
Buzzing to have signed for @bcfcofficial can’t wait to get out there!! #bcfc #kro 😀⚽️🔵
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A kid stricken with injuries and not good enough for us has fucked off to those nonces down the road.
Who cares.
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What is it about these thick twats.
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I’d like to wish him all the best following today’s announcement of his retirement from professional football.
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Bizarre one, when was the last time we actually loaned them a player? Will be an odd feeling for him on derby day.
Guess with the other options being QPR and Bolton he was always going to choose them but would be very strange to see him play for us again after this so imagine this is just a loan to get his contract to run down a bit more and then sell him in January.
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22gards
Buzzing to have signed for @bcfcofficial can’t wait to get out there!! #bcfc #kro 😀⚽️🔵
Despite this, I still have more respect for him than I do for Micah Richards.
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Bizarre one, when was the last time we actually loaned them a player? Will be an odd feeling for him on derby day.
Guess with the other options being QPR and Bolton he was always going to choose them but would be very strange to see him play for us again after this so imagine this is just a loan to get his contract to run down a bit more and then sell him in January.
It's a season long loan so I assume the idea is he does ok there and we sell him for a smallish fee next summer.
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Good luck to him. He's a professional footballer and has to make a living somewhere. He's too old to wait around in the reserves his whole career. He needs to play first team football.
He knows he won't crack the first team with Villa with the amount of midfielders we have bought, he's had his chances with us and loans, and no-one has offered him a contract.
Best of luck Gary.
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Good luck to him. He's a professional footballer and has to make a living somewhere. He's too old to wait around in the reserves his whole career. He needs to play first team football.
He knows he won't crack the first team with Villa with the amount of midfielders we have bought, he's had his chances with us and loans, and no-one has offered him a contract.
Best of luck Gary.
My thoughts exactly.
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Bizarre one, when was the last time we actually loaned them a player? Will be an odd feeling for him on derby day.
Guess with the other options being QPR and Bolton he was always going to choose them but would be very strange to see him play for us again after this so imagine this is just a loan to get his contract to run down a bit more and then sell him in January.
It's a season long loan so I assume the idea is he does ok there and we sell him for a smallish fee next summer.
Ah thought it might've been to January. This shows yet again how silly it was to give him a new 4 year deal when he'd had a couple of good games when SB first came in. It's o.k trying to protect our investement but the other side is he falls out of favour again and we have to keep loaning him out until his contract runs down.
Hopefully the new owners will learn this quickly.
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Good luck to him. He's a professional footballer and has to make a living somewhere. He's too old to wait around in the reserves his whole career. He needs to play first team football.
He knows he won't crack the first team with Villa with the amount of midfielders we have bought, he's had his chances with us and loans, and no-one has offered him a contract.
Best of luck Gary.
Me too. Unless he plays against us of course.
My thoughts exactly.
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What is wrong with him writing #kro?
We sound like their whining fans (see that lot thread on this for some utter twats).
I'm sure when he typed it he was doing comedy dry wretches and everything, but he's playing for them now.
Good luck to him, I hope it goes well and serves as a springboard to come back and do good stuff for us.
Blues are of zero relevance to us, they'll be fighting to stay up, we'll be at the other end of the table. Getting all stroppy about them is laughable. They've permanently got a Villa thread at the top of their forum, and have match threads for OUR matches. Let them obsess about us while we take absolutely zero fucking notice of them.
They are utterly irrelevant to us.
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22gards
Buzzing to have signed for @bcfcofficial can’t wait to get out there!! #bcfc #kro 😀⚽️🔵
Despite this, I still have more respect for him than I do for Micah Richards.
Yeah and I mean it would make sense to try and get them onside and avoid getting stick from the off.
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Yeah, he's not gonna roit #sotc is he? FFS.
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What is wrong with him writing #kro?
We sound like their whining fans (see that lot thread on this for some utter twats).
I'm sure when he typed it he was doing comedy dry wretches and everything, but he's playing for them now.
Good luck to him, I hope it goes well and serves as a springboard to come back and do good stuff for us.
Blues are of zero relevance to us, they'll be fighting to stay up, we'll be at the other end of the table. Getting all stroppy about them is laughable. They've permanently got a Villa thread at the top of their forum, and have match threads for OUR matches. Let them obsess about us while we take absolutely zero fucking notice of them.
They are utterly irrelevant to us.
I wasn't whining, thanks. Just stating a fact.
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What is wrong with him writing #kro?
We sound like their whining fans (see that lot thread on this for some utter twats).
I'm sure when he typed it he was doing comedy dry wretches and everything, but he's playing for them now.
Good luck to him, I hope it goes well and serves as a springboard to come back and do good stuff for us.
Blues are of zero relevance to us, they'll be fighting to stay up, we'll be at the other end of the table. Getting all stroppy about them is laughable. They've permanently got a Villa thread at the top of their forum, and have match threads for OUR matches. Let them obsess about us while we take absolutely zero fucking notice of them.
They are utterly irrelevant to us.
I wasn't whining, thanks. Just stating a fact.
I wasn't referring to your post, but now you've mentioned it, you're clearly pointing it out to make the same point.
So what?
Life is too short to worry about those knuckledraggers.
it's like when McLeish came here and some people got the hump about him coming from them. I always thought that would have made it more delicious if we'd done well with him, that we'd taken him from them.
Same with GG. It'd be great if he did brilliantly for them this season, then we dragged him back. Much more gratifying than if the same had happened at Barnsley or Forest or somewhere else.
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What is wrong with him writing #kro?
We sound like their whining fans (see that lot thread on this for some utter twats).
I'm sure when he typed it he was doing comedy dry wretches and everything, but he's playing for them now.
Good luck to him, I hope it goes well and serves as a springboard to come back and do good stuff for us.
Blues are of zero relevance to us, they'll be fighting to stay up, we'll be at the other end of the table. Getting all stroppy about them is laughable. They've permanently got a Villa thread at the top of their forum, and have match threads for OUR matches. Let them obsess about us while we take absolutely zero fucking notice of them.
They are utterly irrelevant to us.
I wasn't whining, thanks. Just stating a fact.
Fair fucks, so. Interwebs polarises all issues. Binary innit.
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I’d like to wish him all the best following today’s announcement of his retirement from professional football.
(Sitting alone in my caravan - just having a general look at what's going on) - this made me burst out laughing!
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I must say I do like the idea that blues have taken some wages off us and helped fund Some of Grealish’s new deal and slightly improved our FFP position. Marvelous stuff
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Somebody somewhere in a parallel universe is probably thinking we should have taken the cash Spurs offered for Grealish and played Gardner as his replacement rather than letting GG go to Small Heath.
Is it a season long loan? If he does well for half a season it would be fun to stuff them up by taking him back so he could sit on our bench for the second half of the campaign or loan him out to one of their relegation rivals.
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Pretty sure you can't recall a player from a season long loan.
The new contract he was given has probably cost us very little, certainly in footballing terms, when you factor in how much of his wages other clubs have paid plus any loan fees.
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Why didn't they just give him a free transfer if he's leaving next summer anyway?
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Why didn't they just give him a free transfer if he's leaving next summer anyway?
At least this way he can’t plsy against us and inevitably score.
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More likely to get injured for 6 months than set their team on fire i reckon. Shame.
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I couldn't really give a toss if he signs off his posts "kro". Can't see why anyone would get worked up about that.
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Why didn't they just give him a free transfer if he's leaving next summer anyway?
He has 2 years left.
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I couldn't really give a toss if he signs off his posts "kro". Can't see why anyone would get worked up about that.
No one has really, they've just said it's a bit of a strange thing for a Villa fan to do as they, and many others, couldn't do it.
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It's not that strange, he's a Birmingham City player. Unusually for them, the song contains no references to us. It's hardly like he has posted "SOTV".
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The only ones making a big thing out of it seem to be the ones saying it isn't a big thing :P
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Mind you i'm so enraged by it i've left some batches soaking in pea wet over night to send to him as a welcome to the sty gift.
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As if he hasn't suffered enough...
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Total respect to Gary Gardner "one of our own" who has not achieved probably what he dreamed of. But has chosen to battle to work hard and try and make a career. And earn his wages. Mcormack + Richards take note …...
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If he wants some advice as to how to behave as he moves between local rivals all he needs to do is look what his brother did........ and then do the exact opposite.
If he does that he should have no problems with anybody other than the usual morons.
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More likely to get injured for 6 months than set their team on fire i reckon. Shame.
I hate the Noses but that's a bit strong.
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Total respect to Gary Gardner "one of our own" who has not achieved probably what he dreamed of. But has chosen to battle to work hard and try and make a career. And earn his wages. Mcormack + Richards take note …...
Agree 100% more of a man than them pair ever will be
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I bear the man no ill will at all* but can't wish him luck at the rags either.
*Subject to any moronic comments about us designed to ingratiate himself to their "fans"
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I watched his interview with their reporter from the club yesterday. Poor sod. Desperately trying to sound enthusiastic enough to please the SHA fans but very obviously conscious of the fact that he might have to come back to us at some point.
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More likely to get injured for 6 months than set their team on fire i reckon. Shame.
I hate the Noses but that's a bit strong.
I'm not wishing him any ill, just more a comment on his injury record.
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More likely to get injured for 6 months than set their team on fire i reckon. Shame.
I hate the Noses but that's a bit strong.
I'm not wishing him any ill, just more a comment on his injury record.
I think he was referring to the arson bit mate.
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Ads cleverly riffed on the ambiguity over ''than/then".
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No great loss. Think we could use a bit more of a edge in midfield but he sure isn't giving it to us. Good luck to him.
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I’ll guarantee this that when he scores for them he won’t run the length of the pitch to celebrate in front of their fans.
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More likely to get injured for 6 months than set their team on fire i reckon. Shame.
I hate the Noses but that's a bit strong.
I'm not wishing him any ill, just more a comment on his injury record.
I think he was referring to the arson bit mate.
It's not his fault, there's no smoke without fire.
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Good luck to him. Clearly just wants to play football that much he’s made a move he knows is likely to see him condemned on both sides.
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Just wish we sold him rather than sent him to a coal mine for a season.
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If he does well it's to the benefit of Birmingham pity. So really we don't want him to do to well but I hope he won't get injured and gets to play football. Nothing outstanding by GG so far
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I’d like him to bag a hat trick every week in a 4-3 loss. The “break yer ‘eart” winner each time coming deep into stoppage time on each occasion.
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I’d like him to bag a hat trick every week in a 5-3 loss.
Brilliant !!
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It's a shame both the Gardner brothers cant play against villa .
Would have been interesting watching Grealish run rings round both of them
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Still going to sing the "your brothers a twat" song to him :)
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A pale shadow of the player we all hoped he might become.
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A pale shadow of the player we all hoped he might become.
And he’s now pale and in the shadow too.
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He got a good reception when he was subbed last night. Poor thing. Gone from playing for a quality club to being subbed for/by the footballing equivalent of a dog shit bin.
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Time to rename this thread #PrayforGary, I reckon.
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Gary Gardner Thread of Condolences please, mods.
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Apparently they should have hammered Swansea last night. He may have been instrumental.
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Gary Gardner is playing very well for Blues. Scored last night. Monk classes him as an important cog in their midfield. How can he look so good for them? Surely better than Whelan/ Hourihane?
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I wonder if Smith will recall Gardner if we have the option in January ? We really shouldn't be aiding the noses!
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High expectations at Villa and it seems they weigh heavy. See Lansbury, Whelan, Hogan. Players do seem to do better in some cases when the leave us, see Hogg, Stevens, Lowton and dare I mention his name, Westwood.
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Bannen.
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I don't think you can recall players from season-long loans.
I think there's normally a break clause in January?
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Gary Gardner is playing very well for Blues. Scored last night. Monk classes him as an important cog in their midfield. How can he look so good for them? Surely better than Whelan/ Hourihane?
To be fair, he's probably been coached better in the last few months than he has for all his previous years with us.
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Have always said there is a good player in there if he got a run of 10-15 games to build a rhythm (something that would never have happened at Villa) - with all the nasty injuries he’s had good on him if he makes a success of his loan.
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Well Leicester can recall Harvey Barnes so no doubt we won’t have inserted a recall clause. This deal was sanctioned by the bloke who let Elphick leave with Jedi as his replacement.
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The annoying thing is we’ll be paying a decent chunk of his wages too, when you consider Blose aren’t allowed to pay more than £10k a week on wages for loans.
Can you imagine them ever doing us a favour like that?
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The annoying thing is we’ll be paying a decent chunk of his wages too, when you consider Blose aren’t allowed to pay more than £10k a week on wages for loans.
Can you imagine them ever doing us a favour like that?
Given that every time we sign a player on loan people moan that we're improving another team;s player for them then yes, they're doing us a favour right now.
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I don't want him recalled. I've seen more than enough.
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I don't think he'd really want to come back anyway. He's doing well there, he's basically been binned by Bruce and others for years and he'd want to come back here and start from scratch again on the off-chance smith wants what he's offering? Last year of my contract i'd be looking after No.1 and standing out in a blose team is probably going to get you noticed more than possibly being a squad player here
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I think he's got another year after this season. Probably has the type of technique Dean would appreciate, maybe not the speed. Maybe he's more useful than Hourihane though.
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I don't want him recalled. I've seen more than enough.
I don't want him back, but the petty part of me wouldn't mind bringing him back to loan him out again to a less scummy club. We aren't in the Man City/Man U/Chelsea league and I've never really felt comfortable with loaning a player to a club in the same division, especially that lot.
It's unlikely, but imagine he scored the goal on the last day of the season that saw them pip us to a playoff place on the last day?
I believe the Heathens got relegated once because of goals scored by a Coventry player on loan from The Sty.
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yeah looks like you're right. Doesn't seem possible he's still got a year left when he's been that far out the picture for so long. 7 years and he's barely made 30 appearances for us :o
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I believe the Heathens got relegated once because of goals scored by a Coventry player on loan from The Sty.
Yep, Mick Ferguson. The sha manager responsible for that genius move was Ron Saunders.
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Is it a case of when he's asked to perform a role he's made for then he is more than capable?
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I don’t want the snivelling blue nose prick back.
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I'd take him back in January if he is there best player, no brainer.
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I can't believe he's played that many games for them. It seemed like he couldn't play a couple of games for us without pulling a hamstring or getting a career threatening injury.
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I'd take him back in January if he is there best player, no brainer.
I’d take him back in January as well. Then put him in the reserves.
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I can't wait till we play them, imagine if we met them in the play off final, oh my lord.
There tails are up but it's a long season and Deano will have already identified the problems make no mistake.
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I'd take him back in January if he is there best player, no brainer.
I’d take him back in January as well. Then put him in the reserves.
He must be one of our all time highest appearance makers in the reserves surely? He’s probably due a testimonial soon too.
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I don’t want the snivelling blue nose prick back.
That's his brother. Gary's a Villan just trying to make a livin'.
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I don’t want the snivelling blue nose prick back.
That's his brother. Gary's a Villan just trying to make a livin'.
Must be why he posts KRO at the end of his instagram posts then.
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It's all pantomime
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Well done to Gary. Lets face it most of us felt his ship had sailed and getting some of his wages covered was a positive. If he does well enough for us to be able to get a fee for him then that will be a real bonus. Shame about the KRO stuff, that's a bit twatish given we're his parent club.
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If FFP is going to come into play regarding any business we do in January I am quite happy for him to do well at Small Heath so we can cash in and get a few quid for him. Or is he on a season long loan that would rule that out?
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You can recall players in Jan, so afaik we could recall him and sell him.
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You can recall players in Jan, so afaik we could recall him and sell him.
Let's hope that the only club who wants him isn't restricted to only free transfers and low budget loans.
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I don’t want the snivelling blue nose prick back.
That's his brother. Gary's a Villan just trying to make a livin'.
Must be why he posts KRO at the end of his instagram posts then.
Good point, he should be putting UTV instead, just to make sure he's supported.
If he was playing for Sheffield United he'd put UTB. It's just what players do and means nowt to most folk.
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Or he could just put nothing and remember who has been paying his wages and probably still is for the last few years.
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Or he could just put nothing and remember who has been paying his wages and probably still is for the last few years.
Yep, that lot are paying. He'll leave us anyway. Does it really matter?
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I don’t want the snivelling blue nose prick back.
That's his brother. Gary's a Villan just trying to make a livin'.
Must be why he posts KRO at the end of his instagram posts then.
Its the anthem of the team he plays for, if he signs them off with SOTV then shout him down for it otherwise who gives a fuck really .
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Judas players taking the piss and typing something to do with the club they are on loan at
Tammy Abraham
Verified account
@tammyabraham
Oct 20
🌲points!!! Happy with another ⚽️ boys put in a performance today! Thank for you for amazing support from both fans today ❤️#UTV
Yannick Bolasie
Verified account
@YannickBolasie
Oct 23
Lock in #utv up the villa 👌👌👌
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Both fans?!!
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Him adding KRO is comparable to one of our loanees adding UTV. If he starts adding SOTV, then I might get miffed.
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Both fans?!!
Swansea game.
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Particularly given he does it as #kro which is one of the main ways to ensure the fans see it, just like our players will be told to use #utv
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I want him to play really well which will give us good fiananial options
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Don't get wound up, he's fighting his corner and would love to be playing for us instead.
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Aye, its like he demanded to leave on loan. rightly or wrongly various managers haven't fancied him so back in August he was obviously given the nod by Nan's hair that he could go on loan or rot for 24months in the reserves. I'm not gonna get upset because he posts KRO because if he was still here this thread would be on page 23.
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The bloke's scored one goal for them. It's not like he's single handedly guiding them to the Champions League.
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I'd like to see Dean give him a go.
What position is he playing there? Monk has obviously got something right by the way he's playing.
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The bloke's scored one goal for them. It's not like he's single handedly guiding them to the Champions League.
Well hes helped put them above the vile , so in their world thats even better
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In recent years he seemed to be very limited. Lacks pace and poor distribution. They can keep him. He’s good enough for where they want to be but not good enough for where we want to be.
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Both fans?!!
Swansea game.
I know, it sounded like two people were there to support!
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In recent years he seemed to be very limited. Lacks pace and poor distribution. They can keep him. He’s good enough for where they want to be but not good enough for where we want to be.
16th you mean? Oh want to be.
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The bloke's scored one goal for them. It's not like he's single handedly guiding them to the Champions League.
He's been far more consistent than any of our midfielders this season so fair play to him.
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I think one of the things helping GG is that he knows that he's pretty well nailed on to start every game.
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Who would you all prefer, GG or Whelan?
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I'd rather the other GG but I think he may still be detained at HM' s pleasure
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I didn't hear any great cry of despair when he crossed the City.
Players are always so much better when they aren't actually in your team.
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Completed
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Will we see a similar declaration of love for the Noses like his rat-faced brother did when he moved?
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Shame. Had high hopes for him here but injuries put paid to that.
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https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/06/05/first-summer-signing-arrives
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I didn't hear any great cry of despair when he crossed the City.
Players are always so much better when they aren't actually in your team.
Based on that and taking into account all of his injuries and loans that must make him the greatest player in our history ;)
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“The Solihull based blues fan” apparently
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https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/06/05/first-summer-signing-arrives
Good quality beard and that hair looks as luxuriant as it gets.
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I'll remember him for the way he celebrated his goal against the Rags. Rarely in life will you see a happier man.
Poor sod.
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Notice the blues website stating he's a "solihull born blues fan"... Not come from his mouth yet though. Not that it really matters any more
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Always such a shame to see a player as young as Gary retire from football.
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https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/06/05/gary-gardner-announcement
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I am so sorry for Gary. None of our former youngsters deserve this.
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So long GG
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Loving how the Rags OS are trying to spin his move:
"And the Solihull-born Blues fan was always of a mind to make the switch for keeps, if possible"
No mention of his running the length of the pitch to celebrate his goal with the Villa fans.
You may want to mute the sound (friends of Percy, I think)..
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That's a laugh that they're trying to claim that he's one of them.
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Ours or theirs, he's an awful eejit. Good riddance.
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Strange pair the Gardner brothers ,both started their careers at Villa and one of them stated he was a Villa fan while the other one ran the length of the field after scoring.Both end up at Small Heath after being discarded by Villa and hey it is revealed they have always been bluenoses .Just goes to show you can't believe a word they say .Gary must be desperate thats all i can say
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Strange pair the Gardner brothers ,both started their careers at Villa and one of them stated he was a Villa fan while the other one ran the length of the field after scoring.Both end up at Small Heath after being discarded by Villa and hey it is revealed they have always been bluenoses .Just goes to show you can't believe a word they say .Gary must be desperate thats all i can say
They’re a bit dim these Gardner brothers. They keep forgetting which team they support.
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Scooby Doo is less confused.
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I could never remember which was which anyway.
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Each time it seems to be a case of "well that's that fucked then, I might as well jump back into the swamp".
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Good luck to him, glad he's finally over his injuries.
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Good luck to him, glad he's finally over his injuries.
Very true, danno. One of those kids we expected to be a bit special but injury pretty much destroyed his career.
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Following on from their hilariously badly-worded "Fabric of the City" rubbish the other day, the Gardner transfer shows that whoever writes the news items on the official SHA website is as illiterate as most of their fans:
"He fitted in seamlessly to Garry Monk’s side and produced consistence performances in the heart of midfield." 'Consistent' was the word you were looking for.
"Gardner also created a bit of Blues history when he and brother Craig both played in the same side, becoming only the second pair of siblings to do so for the Club." It's not really creating history if somebody else has done it before, is it?
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He's done a Craig and has now announced he was always a blue.
(https://i.ibb.co/LnnMFQJ/Screenshot-133.png)
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Doesn't look too happy in that 'photo does he? Seems that shirt is like a straitjacket.
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As I was saying. Awful eejit.
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Once a blue, always a blue, and never good enough to play for Aston Villa.
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He seems to have quite a few dreams come true
“To score and then run the length of the pitch to celebrate with the Villa fans is a dream come true,” he told us.
“It’s a day I will never forget for as long as I live. It’s what I dreamed about as a kid.”
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I should point out that I couldn't give a shite who him or his brother supported as kids or adults. It's just a bit sad and pathetic that they both lie about it to suit themselves, so it's worth pointing out their lies.
Maybe he'll continue to emulate his brother and will ditch sha at the first opportunity when they get relegated.
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He's done a Craig and has now announced he was always a blue.
(https://i.ibb.co/LnnMFQJ/Screenshot-133.png)
Ha! Gardner the Younger doesn't look very happy there. Poor sod.
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Once a blue, always a blue. Except for the time he ran the length of the pitch to celebrate with Villa fans after scoring against them.
Who cares what this mongrel has to say? Leave him to look forward to playing Luton Town. 26 years of age and he's finally getting some regular first team football. Says it all.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UvWviUcAA8wCE.jpg:large)
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I couldn't give a shite who him or his brother supported as kids or adults.
Agreed, both of them showed plenty of effort whilst they were here.
The allegiance thing is just a self preservation exercise any ex villa has to do on arrival at SHA. Otherwise they're one bad game away from DVB accusations.
You'll probably find neither brother gave a monkeys about either club when they were growing up as they were too busy playing.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UvWviUcAA8wCE.jpg:large)
Just to remind everybody as well about Craig's somewhat flaky allegiances:
“I signed for Villa when I was 15 and since then these have been the best days of my life. I’m a Villa fan.
“I’ve come through the ranks and nothing can be better. I used to be on the Holte End. I was there when we beat Tranmere in the League Cup semi-final.
"I was at the game when Mark Bosnich saved the penalty and we all ran on to the pitch so it’s come from that. When I was watching Villa as a kid there were people like Garry Parker, Dalian Atkinson and Paul McGrath.
"They were all brilliant. I used to sing their names and now I look at the crowd and they’re chanting my name so it’s great.”
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These Gardner brothers sure have bad memories .Always a blue except when you play for the Villa is what they should say
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Clearly they’re trying to ingratiate themselves with the great Neanderthal unwashed. Or in their simpleton language ingraysheate
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I am embarrassed for all Gardner’s
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I don't give a stuff. Playing football is a job, and I'd say anything to get one.
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Imagine scoring a goal against us in the derby and running the full length to celebrate with the great unwashed?
Me neither.
A man who sold his soul.
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So many footballers are just plain stupid.
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So many footballers are just plain stupid.
Or think we are 😯
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So many footballers are just plain stupid.
Or think we are 😯
Or know 'them lot' are.
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All the best to him. Was very highly rated as a young player but never kicked on at first team level for various reasons including injuries. Always seemed to do ok on loan spells so am happy he got fixed up.
The two Gardner's were never good enough for us really and have found their level now at the nether regions of the second division.
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All the best to him. Was very highly rated as a young player but never kicked on at first team level for various reasons including injuries. Always seemed to do ok on loan spells so am happy he got fixed up.
The two Gardner's were never good enough for us really and have found their level now at the nether regions of the second division.
I agree, think the injuries took away that little hint of pace & thus far he hasn’t rediscovered the power shooting that he definitely had when he first came through. Always thought there was a player in there if he gets an injury free run, maybe now he will & if he adds 10 goals a season he might get himself a move to a proper club again.
They are a very odd family though :-)
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No problem with him moving on, good luck, go and play football. But all the always been a blues fan stuff is pathetic.
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Funny how they feel they have to pander to this lifelong fan BS. I don't care who our players supported as kids, or now, I just want them to be professional and do their jobs.
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Poor Gary. RIP.
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Well the pair of them have certainly taken a few bob out of "their" club...The noses on SHA are embarrassed and not fooled by the photos....certainly scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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I am off to my caravan next weekend and there for a couple of weeks in the summer. As Mommy and Daddy Gardner are my neighbours there, there is a fair chance I will see their boys in the next few weeks. I shall pose the question of childhood allegiance if I do.
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I am off to my caravan next weekend and there for a couple of weeks in the summer. As Mommy and Daddy Gardner are my neighbours there, there is a fair chance I will see their boys in the next few weeks. I shall pose the question of childhood allegiance if I do.
You won't be able to keep a straight face :-)
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Don't care about Gardner to be honest, he wasn't even bang average and is now at a club suited to his level of ability.
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To be fair to them, it is possible they went to watch Villa and Blues. When I was living up in Scotland, I watched Hibs and Hearts in roughly equal measure and wanted both to do well.
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He's pretty irrelevant to us and so is who he supported as a kid. He's just trying to have a career and say what people want to hear. Really, why should we care?
It happens all the time in football. That's why our interviewers first question to new players is usually "how does it feel to join a huge club like Villa." He knows our fans want to hear it and they player will have been briefed on mentioning our size and history. It's all lip service but harmless stuff, and us fans lap it up.
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Cheerio.
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He's pretty irrelevant to us and so is who he supported as a kid. He's just trying to have a career and say what people want to hear. Really, why should we care?
It happens all the time in football. That's why our interviewers first question to new players is usually "how does it feel to join a huge club like Villa." He knows our fans want to hear it and they player will have been briefed on mentioning our size and history. It's all lip service but harmless stuff, and us fans lap it up.
I hate the 'massive club' garbage that they force new signings to parrot.
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I hate the 'massive club' garbage that they force new signings to parrot.
Its all part of the required self promotion - should have been happening more ages ago.
Plenty of other clubs have been doing it for a long time.
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Gardner brothers on tour
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62014301_10217376363695296_7011940255712411648_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=d167e9234bc239747d00d55e9f6fc207&oe=5D52CDCF)
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He's pretty irrelevant to us and so is who he supported as a kid. He's just trying to have a career and say what people want to hear. Really, why should we care?
It happens all the time in football. That's why our interviewers first question to new players is usually "how does it feel to join a huge club like Villa." He knows our fans want to hear it and they player will have been briefed on mentioning our size and history. It's all lip service but harmless stuff, and us fans lap it up.
I hate the 'massive club' garbage that they force new signings to parrot.
Do you want that, or do you want Richard Dunne and Stephen Ireland talking about joining a 'family' club.
Making us sound like Watford or Fulham.
That said, the marketing crew need to up their game. This 'We are Premier League' all over the clubshop is total cringe.
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Gardner brothers on tour
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62014301_10217376363695296_7011940255712411648_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=d167e9234bc239747d00d55e9f6fc207&oe=5D52CDCF)
Lol, that's a crop of my photograph :-)
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He's pretty irrelevant to us and so is who he supported as a kid. He's just trying to have a career and say what people want to hear. Really, why should we care?
It happens all the time in football. That's why our interviewers first question to new players is usually "how does it feel to join a huge club like Villa." He knows our fans want to hear it and they player will have been briefed on mentioning our size and history. It's all lip service but harmless stuff, and us fans lap it up.
I hate the 'massive club' garbage that they force new signings to parrot.
Do you want that, or do you want Richard Dunne and Stephen Ireland talking about joining a 'family' club.
Making us sound like Watford or Fulham.
That said, the marketing crew need to up their game. This 'We are Premier League' all over the clubshop is total cringe.
I don’t want to hear about those 2 joining our club at all :-\
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We are Premier League though, aren't we?
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We are but at times it's feels like we were acting like a small club getting there for the first time. That said I accept a lot of the social media and marketing that the club do isn't aimed at old gits like me.
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We are but at times it's feels like we were acting like a small club getting there for the first time. That said I accept a lot of the social media and marketing that the club do isn't aimed at old gits like me.
I know what you mean and agree
Now that the excitement has died down we should hang our heads in shame at what led to us getting relegated in the first place and focus on never letting it happen again.
All this 'we are premier league' stuff makes us sound like Huddersfield or Barnsley being allowed to play with the big boys for a couple of years.
Which is why the club were spot on about not having an open top bus style celebration.
It's fucking great we are out of that league but we should be mortally embarrassed to have spent three years there in the first place.
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All this 'we are premier league' stuff makes us sound like Huddersfield or Barnsley being allowed to play with the big boys for a couple of years.
Which is why the club were spot on about not having an open top bus style celebration.
It's fucking great we are out of that league but we should be mortally embarrassed to have spent three years there in the first place.
Agreed about the avoidance of 'small town' but I'd add that sometimes teams need to go through a cathartic process - whcih may involve relegation - in order to return stronger and better than before. We have perhaps done it to the extreme -3 seasons - but I'm hoping we'll see the sort of resurgence I was lucky enough to witness and live through after 1970.
Without the catharsis, teams just 'exist' in the top division, winning nothing and contributing very little. I hope we move beyond that stage as quickly as possible.
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Looked to have a great future at the age of 16, but to have an ACL in both knees was megga bad luck. All his loan spells haven't been that good until this one with Blues. The championship is his level and I wish him well and thanks for the goal against Blues and the following celebration.
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The fact that both he and his massive cock ring of a brother both had to swear allegiance to that lot and deny our existence tells you not just how sad they are but ultimately how that lot are. That admitting any kind of feelings towards "da Vile" would be seen as a betrayal. And the media said we are the petty ones and all hated McLeish and Bruce because of links with them. No we just thought they were crap.
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Looked to have a great future at the age of 16, but to have an ACL in both knees was megga bad luck. All his loan spells haven't been that good until this one with Blues. The championship is his level and I wish him well and thanks for the goal against Blues and the following celebration.
When we played in that Euro Youth Cup, he was head and shoulders above everyone we played against and there were some pretty strong teams, Celtic, Inter and Ajax amongst others. He looked like he could be the next Gerrard.
Not sure if it was the injuries or a natural lack of pace that slowed his progress but he just never pushed on and looked comfortable. A meat and two veg Championship player who never looked like holding down a regular place in our worst team in living memory. A bright future behind him now.
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I can remember to watching him come off the bench and score two for the England U21s about the same time as well. He looked like a player who could really make a difference.
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What a complete twat and a fraud Gary Gardner is! So he literally ran to the Sty to sign for the losers! They ain't getting promoted any time soon!
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The fact that both he and his massive cock ring of a brother both had to swear allegiance to that lot and deny our existence tells you not just how sad they are but ultimately how that lot are. That admitting any kind of feelings towards "da Vile" would be seen as a betrayal. And the media said we are the petty ones and all hated McLeish and Bruce because of links with them. No we just thought they were crap.
Watch us cheer for Jota if he makes it and for nobody in the media to mention anything.
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The fact that both he and his massive cock ring of a brother both had to swear allegiance to that lot and deny our existence tells you not just how sad they are but ultimately how that lot are. That admitting any kind of feelings towards "da Vile" would be seen as a betrayal. And the media said we are the petty ones and all hated McLeish and Bruce because of links with them. No we just thought they were crap.
Can you imagine Liverpool appointing two different managers who had previously relegated Everton or Manure appointing two different managers who had relegated Manchester City? As you say we didn't have a problem with them being ex Small Heath managers we just didn't think they were the best men for the job. We were proved right in both cases.
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We are but at times it's feels like we were acting like a small club getting there for the first time. That said I accept a lot of the social media and marketing that the club do isn't aimed at old gits like me.
I know what you mean and agree
Now that the excitement has died down we should hang our heads in shame at what led to us getting relegated in the first place and focus on never letting it happen again.
All this 'we are premier league' stuff makes us sound like Huddersfield or Barnsley being allowed to play with the big boys for a couple of years.
Which is why the club were spot on about not having an open top bus style celebration.
It's fucking great we are out of that league but we should be mortally embarrassed to have spent three years there in the first place.
Indeed. However whilst we correctly turned down the idea of a parade we should also not sell "part of the Premier League" T shirts and stuff.
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Am I the only one who thinks he has done well to find a club in the championship. He is truly awful
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Am I the only one who thinks he has done well to find a club in the championship. He is truly awful
I agree, but to be fair he's found a club to match.
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We are but at times it's feels like we were acting like a small club getting there for the first time. That said I accept a lot of the social media and marketing that the club do isn't aimed at old gits like me.
I know what you mean and agree
Now that the excitement has died down we should hang our heads in shame at what led to us getting relegated in the first place and focus on never letting it happen again.
All this 'we are premier league' stuff makes us sound like Huddersfield or Barnsley being allowed to play with the big boys for a couple of years.
Which is why the club were spot on about not having an open top bus style celebration.
It's fucking great we are out of that league but we should be mortally embarrassed to have spent three years there in the first place.
Indeed. However whilst we correctly turned down the idea of a parade we should also not sell "part of the Premier League" T shirts and stuff.
Fucking unbelievably cringeworthy. Pathetic decision by whoever thought that was a good idea.