Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on January 12, 2014, 03:31:45 PM
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Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
Fans tore up tickets and threw them at their manager after last Saturday’s 2-1 defeat to Sheffield United in the FA Cup.
In such circumstances, there is often a rush to condemn the angry or a reference to the short-termism of the mindset of many. Where Villa are concerned, however, such comments are utterly misplaced.
This is the club with the eighth highest average attendance in England but they are the lowest scorers at home in all four divisions.
Villa Park has witnessed a mere seven goals at the right end this season. Only three of them have come in the last three-and-a-half months. The bare facts are that Villa have only won seven of 29 home league games in Lambert’s reign.
And yet the tipping point may have come in the FA Cup. Lambert may not have realised it but Villa is a historic club with old-fashioned priorities.
Despite the primacy of the Premier League, the knockout competitions matter to supporters. Martin O’Neill’s relationship with the fans was never the same after his 2009 decision to jettison the Uefa Cup by taking a severely weakened team to CSKA Moscow.
Gerard Houllier, fearful of relegation two years later, took a similar approach in an FA Cup fifth-round tie at Manchester City. Villa stayed up, but Houllier’s popularity ratings plummeted.
Lambert’s suggestion the FA Cup was a competition top-flight managers could do without “if they were being honest” seemed borne out by Villa’s subsequent elimination to League One strugglers Sheffield United. It mattered not that he made fewer changes than most of his Premier League counterparts; the performance had its own unfortunate eloquence.
“We got knocked out,” he admitted. “There’s no getting away from that.”
Patience has been afforded – fans recognised how wretched Villa were under Alex McLeish and recognised that a revival could take time – but now there are legitimate questions where the transition Lambert invariably talks about will take them.
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
It suggested a young side on the verge of a breakthrough. Instead, they have regressed. Villa were embroiled in a relegation struggle last season and, while they spent much of November and December in the upper half of the division, could face another this year.
It is a probability if their home form does not improve and, reluctant as Lambert is to accept it, it is no coincidence that a counter-attacking team struggles when there is an onus on them to seize the initiative.
It may suit them to face Arsenal. “You’ve got to play without the ball a lot of the time,” said Lambert. Villa do that anyway.
They had a mere 27 per cent of possession in the last home league game, against Swansea City, a lamentable low that illustrates their inability to keep the ball.
After the defeat to Sheffield United, Lambert talked about trying to sign a No 10 – his former Norwich City charge Wes Hoolahan appears the preferred target – without mentioning the one he discarded, in Stephen Ireland.
His preference for buying comparatively unknown players means other bigger names have been discarded. Yet Antonio Luna, Aleksandar Tonev, Joe Bennett, Jordan Bowery, Nicklas Helenius and Yacouba Sylla are all his signings; few, if any, look good enough for the Premier League yet.
Christian Benteke was his great transfer-market triumph but he has gone 12 games without a goal. Andreas Weimann, the other accomplished finisher in his squad, has not scored in his last 14.
They had camouflaged the lack of creativity in the rest of the team. Now their droughts are a symptom of it. Unless either ends his wait, the chances are the unrest will fester.
The Villa public have been short-changed. One way or another, there is likely to be payback.
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Knows his stuff this guy.
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Fcukin right there's going to be payback unless things improve.
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Seens pretty much on the money that article.
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Depressing stuff but all true
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I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
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That guy has hit the nail firmly on the head. The honeymoon period is well & truly over!
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The only part I'd disagree with is the insinuation we should have kept Ireland, we all know he's worth less on the pitch than off it.
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I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
The publication is based in the United Arab Emirates as they are 4 hours ahead of the UK I'm guessing it is meant for tomorrow's editions.
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Not sure what went wrong with the quotathon.
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I love a good quadruple quotation. Have to agree with the article, wish I didn't but I don't see brighter days around the corner any time soon unfortunately.
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Good piece. This line made me chuckle:
“You’ve got to play without the ball a lot of the time,” said Lambert. Villa do that anyway.
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I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
True. But in defence of that writer, he doesn't sail the good ship LSD as often as you do VK.
Most accurate article I've seen written about us for years.
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Can someone please tell me what's so good about it? We aren't as good as we'd like, home form s crap and the fans aren't happy. It's a few hundred words of stating the obvious.
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It was quite decent till he vaguely suggested we should've kept Stephen fucking Ireland.
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Because it reads like the thoughts and analysis of someone who has actually watched us, which makes a change from most of the guff floating about.
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If watching us and stating the obvious makes for a good article then there's 30,000 waiting to be written.
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The difference is that most articles about Villa fan frustration invoke (or at least evoke) the F-word. The article falls apart because it's too vague and doesn't actually demonstrate attentiveness to the Stephen Ireland situation, but it's nice not to be told that we have to watch rubbish and not moan because of some previous reputation we have as fans.
Anyway, Stuart James of the Guardian has already done this article in much greater depth, with much greater knowledge and research and much clearer detail.
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In such circumstances, there is often a rush to condemn the angry or a reference to the short-termism of the mindset of many. Where Villa are concerned, however, such comments are utterly misplaced.
This is the club with the eighth highest average attendance in England but they are the lowest scorers at home in all four divisions.
Villa Park has witnessed a mere seven goals at the right end this season. Only three of them have come in the last three-and-a-half months. The bare facts are that Villa have only won seven of 29 home league games in Lambert’s reign.
And yet the tipping point may have come in the FA Cup. Lambert may not have realised it but Villa is a historic club with old-fashioned priorities.
The above part there marks a departure from usual vomit about our low standing at the time of McLeish's departure, 'the project' and similar nonsense. It also doesn't try to hold paying spectators accountable in some way, which shouldn't be worthy of praise in normal circumstances. But makes a refreshing change, as far as we're concerned.
Thankfully, weird (and slightly desperate) comparisons with Borussia Dortmund seem to occur less frequently now. Unlike us, Borussia Dortmund have something approximating a midfield and do actually try to use the ball.
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Can someone please tell me what's so good about it? We aren't as good as we'd like, home form s crap and the fans aren't happy. It's a few hundred words of stating the obvious.
It's good if it supports your point of view. Others will view it as an article put together by somebody that has more space than the usual Red Tops four paragraphs and has space to report the obvious. It is hardly in depth analysis of the club's current position.
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It was quite decent till he vaguely suggested we should've kept Stephen fucking Ireland.
Picking out a No10 who can't get picked for Stoke's first eleven is a poor argument really.
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States the obvious, repeats the false accusation lambert didnt try to win the FA cup game, suggests Stephen Ireland could have been the answer to our troubles and ends with the astonishing conclusion that is we keep losing games Villa fans will get annoyed.
I dub the article, shit. Not good. Shit.
You are welcome :)
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It was quite decent till he vaguely suggested we should've kept Stephen fucking Ireland.
Picking out a No10 who can't get picked for Stoke's first eleven is a poor argument really.
They still want him permanently though.
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It was quite decent till he vaguely suggested we should've kept Stephen fucking Ireland.
Picking out a No10 who can't get picked for Stoke's first eleven is a poor argument really.
They still want him permanently though.
Why they want him comes down to their manager but i've watched him a number of times while on loan and i have to say in all honesty he is still shit.
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Some of it is stating the obvious, (but it needs saying as it may not be obvious to non-Villa fans) but the main thrust of the article, that Lambert not taking the cup games seriously enough will alienate the fans, seems just wrong. Despite what he said Lambert sent out a strong enough team for the cup game. For me that wasn't the issue. The real issues are the lack of obvious coaching, the lack of PL level ability in the squad, and the piss poor tactics which saw us outplayed, not for the first time, by a team leagues below us. That's a more serious and deep rooted problem than not taking a cup game seriously enough.
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Some of it is stating the obvious, (but it needs saying as it may not be obvious to non-Villa fans) but the main thrust of the article, that Lambert not taking the cup games seriously enough will alienate the fans, seems just wrong. Despite what he said Lambert sent out a strong enough team for the cup game. For me that wasn't the issue. The real issues are the lack of obvious coaching, the lack of PL level ability in the squad, and the piss poor tactics which saw us outplayed, not for the first time, by a team leagues below us. That's a more serious and deep rooted problem than not taking a cup game seriously enough.
I think it's true, he probably did alienate a few people with that.
To be honest, though, I thought the whole thing was blown up out of all proportion, it really was. He hardly said anything of any real import, or anything we don't hear from several other managers on a regular basis.
Like you said, the real, actual problem with the FA Cup was the fact that we looked awful against a League One side and got convincingly beaten.
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Possibly the point regarding Ireland is that Lambert has tried and failed already to fit a number 10 into his Villa sides. He tried with Ireland and it didn't work. He tried with N'Zogbia and while he produced his best form in a Villa shirt (well, one month of playing fairly average), in terms of shape and balance, again, it didn't work.
So even if we manage to tie up the Hoolahan deal come the 31st, there then comes the small matter of altering our system once again, and trying to find a balance that works.
I don't think a number 10 will be the miracle cure we're all hoping for, unless we happen to sign an extremely good player, and another 2-3 good players alongside him.
The one advantage of course with Hoolahan is that he's a former Lambert player, whereas Ireland and N'Zogbia were mercs he had inherited. Talent to burn but not the application, fitness or mentality required.
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I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
You are obviously taking the piss? The article is written for Monday's newspaper. Reporters always write the day before but you read it the next day when you buy the paper.
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If watching us and stating the obvious makes for a good article then there's 30,000 waiting to be written.
This.
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I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
You are obviously taking the piss? The article is written for Monday's newspaper. Reporters always write the day before but you read it the next day when you buy the paper.
We don't usually get to read journalists' comments before the day, though, to be fair. I read that article and my reaction was to check the BBC website, as I thought it had been changed and I'd missed it! I know, I know. In my defence, Sunday, not awake.
For the record, agree with DW and ciggies.
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You are right as in the past you would read this only in print form when its available. It's the age of Internet fooling us all I guess.
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Got me, anyway!
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If watching us and stating the obvious makes for a good article then there's 30,000 waiting to be written.
It's an excellent and accurate summary of the last 2 or 3 seasons and touches on all the key points. And the line ' “You've got to play without the ball a lot of the time,” said Lambert. Villa do that anyway. ' is a peach.
It's odd that you don't seem to mind so much about all the "great article, Dave" comments referring to the toss you write on thebirminghampress.com.
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I think this article works for a non-partisan audience.
Yes, it seems bleedin' obvious as a Villa fan - we've had to put up with our home form. But for the casual football watcher, this article articulates our feelings in a powerful and heart-felt way.
Consequently, it does a good job of promoting our club and the fans' feelings to a wider audience.
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The only part I'd disagree with is the insinuation we should have kept Ireland, we all know he's worth less on the pitch than off it.
Yes, I think it would be this section that's the problem.
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It lost me with the Stephen Ireland line.
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If watching us and stating the obvious makes for a good article then there's 30,000 waiting to be written.
It's an excellent and accurate summary of the last 2 or 3 seasons and touches on all the key points. And the line ' “You've got to play without the ball a lot of the time,” said Lambert. Villa do that anyway. ' is a peach.
It's odd that you don't seem to mind so much about all the "great article, Dave" comments referring to the toss you write on thebirminghampress.com.
So I'm not allowed to comment on anything except with unreserved praise?
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If watching us and stating the obvious makes for a good article then there's 30,000 waiting to be written.
It's an excellent and accurate summary of the last 2 or 3 seasons and touches on all the key points. And the line ' “You've got to play without the ball a lot of the time,” said Lambert. Villa do that anyway. ' is a peach.
It's odd that you don't seem to mind so much about all the "great article, Dave" comments referring to the toss you write on thebirminghampress.com.
So I'm not allowed to comment on anything except with unreserved praise?
Great response, Dave.
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If watching us and stating the obvious makes for a good article then there's 30,000 waiting to be written.
It's an excellent and accurate summary of the last 2 or 3 seasons and touches on all the key points. And the line ' “You've got to play without the ball a lot of the time,” said Lambert. Villa do that anyway. ' is a peach.
It's odd that you don't seem to mind so much about all the "great article, Dave" comments referring to the toss you write on thebirminghampress.com.
So I'm not allowed to comment on anything except with unreserved praise?
Great response, Dave.
I agree.
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The peasants are revolting.
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I know more than him. Firstly the match is MNF !! he should know his facts! so doesnt even knnow when the villa are playing!
we already all know this some people are easily impressed . i m an individual and no upstart i can state with confidence the tactics need to be addressed !!
Richard Jolly
English football correspondent
Maybe the mutiny in the Midlands was a one-off event. Perhaps it is the start of a full-scale revolt. Tonight may tell whether Paul Lambert has lost the loyalty of Aston Villa’s long-suffering supporters.
.....
The high point of the campaign occurred against today’s visitors, Arsenal, a 3-1 opening-day demolition that brought a display of dissent towards Arsene Wenger.
Maybe we should sign Jozy Altidore? *Locks door, Sits on hand*
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I'm sick of this bag of popcorn already.
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I think this article works for a non-partisan audience.
Yes, it seems bleedin' obvious as a Villa fan - we've had to put up with our home form. But for the casual football watcher, this article articulates our feelings in a powerful and heart-felt way.
Consequently, it does a good job of promoting our club and the fans' feelings to a wider audience.
That's how I read it. There was nothing overly insightful for us in what he wrote, but it was refreshing to see the wider media actually notice these things for a change rather than just write the usual stuff.
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its all just depressing at the moment , thats all .
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I think this article works for a non-partisan audience.
Yes, it seems bleedin' obvious as a Villa fan - we've had to put up with our home form. But for the casual football watcher, this article articulates our feelings in a powerful and heart-felt way.
Consequently, it does a good job of promoting our club and the fans' feelings to a wider audience.
That's how I read it. There was nothing overly insightful for us in what he wrote, but it was refreshing to see the wider media actually notice these things for a change rather than just write the usual stuff.
I would concur with this. We are used to reading claptrap telling us how we didnt like McLeish because he came from the Blues, Benteke needs to move to better himself and O'Neill was the answer to all our problems.
Its nice to read something which reflects what we think, it doesn't happen often enough unfortunately so that is what makes this article worth a comment. 30000 people could write this article ....... but they dont, thankfully, or I would never get any work done
This article gives a much more accurate view and reflects a lot of what is said on this site....apart from the Stephen Ireland bit
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I think that's exactly where I was coming from. We most of us get it at least. It's just nice that someone outside the midlands media circle has bothered to research us properly. It's better journalism than 'together on WM'.
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The peasants are revolting.
They certainly are.
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I have just nipped into the Dragon in Chinatown for a pint after an extended stay in the office to catch up with my staff who are on the piss.
Revolting peasants? There are plenty in! And I am genuinely not making this up but I have heard more ill educated, vile, racist nonsense from afar in the last half an hour than I have in years.
It is not those supping coffee before Swan Lake at The Hippodrome that are causing such consternation though.
It appears the Blues must be at home tonight.