Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: HolteEnder96 on January 07, 2014, 12:18:47 PM

Title: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: HolteEnder96 on January 07, 2014, 12:18:47 PM
What is it with us at home? 2 home wins and only 7 goals in the league which is the worst in all 4 divisions, we 'set up stall exactly the same away from home' Lambert says but play significantly better, any suggestions as to why this is?
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 07, 2014, 12:22:03 PM
I don't know, but I am pretty sure that the longer it goes on, the more confidence becomes an issue.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Witton Warrior on January 07, 2014, 12:22:54 PM
Does this need another thread?
It's in every post-match ;-)
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: HolteEnder96 on January 07, 2014, 12:25:33 PM
haha maybe not ;-) but it is becoming a joke now, we all pay good money to go and watch what is at the moment, shit.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: villasjf on January 07, 2014, 12:26:15 PM
Perhaps he who left us in the lurch left a curse on our home form.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: peter w on January 07, 2014, 12:29:35 PM
Full-backs that don't overlap, and a midfield that either sit too deep or don't look wide to help create space. Then when we are inavriably chasing the game its very haphazard with no midifeld cover for the defense that have gone up front searching for a goal. Its like kids football.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: fredm on January 07, 2014, 12:34:53 PM
The main point is, which perhaps PL hasn't grasped, is that most teams play slightly different away from home to the way they play at home.  The away team is usually set up to play a more defensive style and it is then the job of the home team to counter this and find a way of attacking them successfully so that they score a goal. If the home team succeeds in scoring a goal then the away team has to change its tactics to enable it to score an equaliser.

So, to say we play exactly the same at home as we do away, is IMO very naive and if it is 100 per cent correct, shows a very poor set of tactics.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: HolteEnder96 on January 07, 2014, 12:37:44 PM
I think 'a poor set of tactics' is his field of expertees, I mean were talking about a man who starts Karim El-Ahmadi..
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: not3bad on January 07, 2014, 12:57:43 PM
With MON as manager and now we relied/rely too much on the counter attacking system, and had/have no creative midfielder to unlock defences at home.  Houlier  tried to change too much too quickly and hence our problems there.  Under Mcleish we were just shit (as we were under DOL towards the end of his reign).
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: freethinker on January 07, 2014, 01:23:34 PM
The Guardian summed it up pretty well in their "FA Cup third round: 10 talking points from this weekend's action"

1) Villa's appalling home record continues

There were plenty of empty seats inside Villa Park on Saturday but it is more remarkable how many home supporters continue to turn up. Villa's record at home over the last two and a-half years has been nothing short of appalling, which is why the 2-1 defeat by League One Sheffield United in the FA Cup was not the shock some might consider it to be. Villa have won only 11 of 48 Premier League home games going back to the start of the 2011-12 season, when Alex McLeish was in charge. Of the 15 teams that have been in the top flight throughout that period, Villa have scored the fewest number of goals and they are the only club to fail to average a point per game in front of their own supporters. Broaden the sample to include all 26 clubs that have featured in the Premier League since 2011-12 and only Wolverhampton Wanderers and Bolton Wanderers, both of whom were relegated, averaged fewer points at home. Villa, in short, are escaping the bottom three purely as a result of their away form, which, in fairness, is remarkably good – they have picked up more points on their travels this season than second-placed Manchester City and as many as third-placed Chelsea. It is not, however, much fun if you are a regular visitor to Villa Park, where victories and entertainment are in short supply. Humiliating cup defeats against lower-league opposition merely compound the misery.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on January 07, 2014, 01:38:13 PM
Cough

http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=50835.0
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Damo70 on January 07, 2014, 03:26:58 PM
The main point is, which perhaps PL hasn't grasped, is that most teams play slightly different away from home to the way they play at home.  The away team is usually set up to play a more defensive style and it is then the job of the home team to counter this and find a way of attacking them successfully so that they score a goal. If the home team succeeds in scoring a goal then the away team has to change its tactics to enable it to score an equaliser.

So, to say we play exactly the same at home as we do away, is IMO very naive and if it is 100 per cent correct, shows a very poor set of tactics.

Exactly what I thought when I heard his quote. The fact that he is proud of having the same set of tactics home and away worries me. Especially as they clearly haven't worked at home since day one.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 07, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
The Guardian summed it up pretty well in their "FA Cup third round: 10 talking points from this weekend's action"

1) Villa's appalling home record continues

There were plenty of empty seats inside Villa Park on Saturday but it is more remarkable how many home supporters continue to turn up. Villa's record at home over the last two and a-half years has been nothing short of appalling, which is why the 2-1 defeat by League One Sheffield United in the FA Cup was not the shock some might consider it to be. Villa have won only 11 of 48 Premier League home games going back to the start of the 2011-12 season, when Alex McLeish was in charge. Of the 15 teams that have been in the top flight throughout that period, Villa have scored the fewest number of goals and they are the only club to fail to average a point per game in front of their own supporters. Broaden the sample to include all 26 clubs that have featured in the Premier League since 2011-12 and only Wolverhampton Wanderers and Bolton Wanderers, both of whom were relegated, averaged fewer points at home. Villa, in short, are escaping the bottom three purely as a result of their away form, which, in fairness, is remarkably good – they have picked up more points on their travels this season than second-placed Manchester City and as many as third-placed Chelsea. It is not, however, much fun if you are a regular visitor to Villa Park, where victories and entertainment are in short supply. Humiliating cup defeats against lower-league opposition merely compound the misery.
This is alarming when you see the stats. At some point our away form will return to normality and we will be completely buggered.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Chipsticks on January 07, 2014, 07:28:35 PM
In short:

1) Attitude of our fans
2) The fact away teams perceive us still as a big club due to our excellent stadium and and thus the big teams don't rest players
3) The pitch is so big it suits play-makers, of which we have none
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Tony Erdington on January 07, 2014, 09:43:17 PM
our players , cuz there lower league players with no premiership quality along side them, shit their selves in a ground the size of ours, and the preconceived expectation

Lambert you are making our return to where we where just four years ago harder
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: danlanza on January 07, 2014, 10:00:42 PM
In short:

1) Attitude of our fans
2) The fact away teams perceive us still as a big club due to our excellent stadium and and thus the big teams don't rest players
3) The pitch is so big it suits play-makers, of which we have none
First two i agree with. Last one, well , open to question really.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 07, 2014, 10:20:56 PM
our players , cuz there lower league players with no premiership quality along side them, shit their selves in a ground the size of ours, and the preconceived expectation

Lambert you are making our return to where we where just four years ago harder

Can someone translate please?
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: bertlambshank on January 07, 2014, 10:22:19 PM
our players , cuz there lower league players with no premiership quality along side them, shit their selves in a ground the size of ours, and the preconceived expectation

Lambert you are making our return to where we where just four years ago harder

Can someone translate please?
Lambert's a ******.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: WestleyArmsAV on January 07, 2014, 10:27:45 PM
There really is some mass hysteria going on and some people clearly topping up from Christmas on the old sauce.

Better off points wise than this time last season, better off goal difference wise, more clean sheets than the whole of last season, this with some significant injuries and our main goalscorer out of form / still not recovered from injury.

A season and a half into rebuilding the squad from the mess it was in I would love to know what points tally / position some people think we should be at.
 
Still 100% behind PL.

UTV.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Jockey Randall on January 07, 2014, 11:26:41 PM
We're too easy to play against at Villa park. Especially against teams you think we shoukd be beating on a regular basis. The emphasis is on us to attack but as we're set up to counter we rarely do well facing a side who are prepared to sit and frustrate. The away side generally gives us a taste of our own medicine and sits deep whilst picking us off when they get the chance. Keep us quiet for 20-30 mins and the fans become agitated and they're halfway there. I actually think we've played some of our better games at home against the bigger sides who just come and play against us and they see us as weaker opposition, giving us more space to exploit in behind.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: joe_c on January 07, 2014, 11:32:43 PM
our players , cuz there lower league players with no premiership quality along side them, shit their selves in a ground the size of ours, and the preconceived expectation

Lambert you are making our return to where we where just four years ago harder

Can someone translate please?

I speak fluent Erdington but this dialect is unfamilar. I assume it's the B23 part. *wrinkles nose*
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: dekko on January 07, 2014, 11:52:19 PM
Nothing new to add:

1. We can't break teams down because we have no creativity.

which leads to:

2. Miserable fans.  We try and keep hold of the ball, people boo because we aren't attacking enough.  So the players go more direct and then people boo because of the hoofball.

I might be wrong here but if you have a football team full of kids, and their confidence is shot, then perhaps encouraging them instead of booing and moaning and yelling every time they try (and fail) and do something might help?
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: olaftab on January 08, 2014, 09:33:20 AM
In short:

1) Attitude of our fans
2) The fact away teams perceive us still as a big club due to our excellent stadium and and thus the big teams don't rest players
3) The pitch is so big it suits play-makers, of which we have none
First two i agree with. Last one, well , open to question really.
You kids!
Sorry but don't agree on first two. The third one yes. We don't  and have not had very good players for a long while now. I would say the last one was Merson.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: eamonn on January 10, 2014, 12:38:17 AM
There really is some mass hysteria going on and some people clearly topping up from Christmas on the old sauce.

Better off points wise than this time last season, better off goal difference wise, more clean sheets than the whole of last season, this with some significant injuries and our main goalscorer out of form / still not recovered from injury.

A season and a half into rebuilding the squad from the mess it was in I would love to know what points tally / position some people think we should be at.
 
Still 100% behind PL.

UTV.

I'd expect a home record a couple of rungs up the ladder from 'disgraceful' and for us not to be knocked out of cup competitions by teams from each of the three lower divisions than ours.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Damo70 on January 10, 2014, 07:26:34 AM
There really is some mass hysteria going on and some people clearly topping up from Christmas on the old sauce.

Better off points wise than this time last season, better off goal difference wise, more clean sheets than the whole of last season, this with some significant injuries and our main goalscorer out of form / still not recovered from injury.

A season and a half into rebuilding the squad from the mess it was in I would love to know what points tally / position some people think we should be at.
 
Still 100% behind PL.

UTV.

I'd expect a home record a couple of rungs up the ladder from 'disgraceful' and for us not to be knocked out of cup competitions by teams from each of the three lower divisions than ours.

I think the original post is very sensible. But the reply is perfectly reasonable too.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: MonsXI on January 10, 2014, 09:40:17 PM
Negativity of some fans is definitely a massive problem, players taking the easy option is a symptom of this s backwards pass is easier than an a pass that may not come off.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: KevinGage on January 10, 2014, 10:23:17 PM
How the hell is it the paying spectators fault that the action on the pitch is so shapeless and aimless? 

That also ignores that the support for Lambert (and the team) was positive enough in his first season for him to regularly comment on it.  But if you continue to serve up dross, patience eventually wears thin. 

 
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: walsall villain on January 10, 2014, 10:32:15 PM
I think the fans have been amazing patient in recent years, even during the TSM days. The trouble is we start games so slowly and hadn't scored first half until the Swansea game so you can understand the reason for the lack of atmosphere in the stadium. I could never blame the fans for the poor performances at villa park.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Dribbler on January 11, 2014, 09:41:21 PM
Oh it's definitely all the fans fault as a result of their mass hysteria and it's definitely got nothing to do with the owner, CEO, Manager, coaches and players and the way they've ran the club and the football they've played.

As such i think the only way we will ever perform better at home is for the fans not to go to Villa park and watch the team play. I have a sneaky suspicion that if the majority of fans stopped going to matches, our performances and so results would improve drastically.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: supertom on January 11, 2014, 10:07:51 PM
Honestly the fact that Villa park on a home game doesn't look like some desolate post apocalyptic relic in the home area, with dusty empty seats and tumbleweeds blowing pathetically across, is something to be commended. The way we play at home, anyone turning up should get a medal as they pass through the turnstyle. Away fans should be served champagne and canapes by waiters, be given luxury seating and complimentary back rubs too, because their team generally gets treatment akin to that on the pitch from our players.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 11, 2014, 10:14:28 PM
We have been getting away with it away from home which suggests there is a problem with at Villa Park.

The problem is the team, the players and the performances.

We are a very poor team and when our away form normalises we will be in trouble.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: martin o`who?? on January 12, 2014, 05:00:38 PM
In short:

1) Attitude of our fans
2) The fact away teams perceive us still as a big club due to our excellent stadium and and thus the big teams don't rest players
3) The pitch is so big it suits play-makers, of which we have none
First two i agree with. Last one, well , open to question really.
Saw an interview with Danny Murphy recently, and he said he always enjoyed playing at Villa Park because of the size of the pitch, he also said other players said the same thing, he also said it worked against Villa because playing on such a big pitch every week was tiring us out.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: martin o`who?? on January 12, 2014, 05:13:00 PM
In short:

1) Attitude of our fans
2) The fact away teams perceive us still as a big club due to our excellent stadium and and thus the big teams don't rest players
3) The pitch is so big it suits play-makers, of which we have none
First two i agree with. Last one, well , open to question really.
Saw an interview with Danny Murphy recently, and he said he always enjoyed playing at Villa Park because of the size of the pitch, he also said other players said the same thing, he also said it worked against Villa because playing on such a big pitch every week was tiring us out.
Further to this, if opposing players openly discuss enjoying playing at VP, that has to tell us somethings fundamentally wrong somewhere.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Rudy65 on January 12, 2014, 08:21:11 PM
In short:

1) Attitude of our fans
2) The fact away teams perceive us still as a big club due to our excellent stadium and and thus the big teams don't rest players
3) The pitch is so big it suits play-makers, of which we have none
First two i agree with. Last one, well , open to question really.
Saw an interview with Danny Murphy recently, and he said he always enjoyed playing at Villa Park because of the size of the pitch, he also said other players said the same thing, he also said it worked against Villa because playing on such a big pitch every week was tiring us out.

Dont think we have a particularly big pitch, and even if it did, would it be an advantage to an away team? I dont think so.

We have just had a crap team and managers during the period
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 18, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
Anyone getting embarrassed by this now, we've now played 11 home and 11 away in the league and it's ridiculous how extreme our form is.

We've scored 8 goals at VP, 14 away. 16 points away, 8 points at home. Since we were gubbed 8 nil at Chelsea in December 2012 we have lost 5 away games in about 21 or 22 games. We have lost 7 out of 11 this season and something like 17 out of our last 25 at home.

This to me can't just be we lack a number 10 or we just prefer counterattacking, this is a serious mental problem now. The players have to dread playing at Villa Park.

I was watching us 2 nil up tonight and trying to think why do we never go effortlessly up 2 nil in home games? I know our goals tonight again came on the break but teams attack us in home games aswell so why can't we counter attack effectively at home. Is the pitch too big, do the players just not like playing there.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on January 18, 2014, 08:56:18 PM
I still blame the fans.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: danno on January 18, 2014, 09:01:51 PM
This guy is the problem. He's just not good enough imo.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJ-0wNoCcAAaOjH.jpg)
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 18, 2014, 09:53:54 PM
It was chalk and cheese today, the brilliant first half and the first half in August at home to Liverpool when we barely crossed the halfway line.

Too often for whatever reason we're slow starters at home, usually go a goal down after 20 minutes, have to chase the game and it all becomes a struggle from then on.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on January 18, 2014, 10:25:15 PM
This guy is the problem. He's just not good enough imo.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJ-0wNoCcAAaOjH.jpg)

Now you are getting to the root of it.

And his fugly missus n all.

 ;D
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Tony Erdington on January 19, 2014, 10:10:39 AM
beautiful big pitch, what FOOTBALLER wouldn't enjoy playing on it, but if your inexperienced player whose only played in frony of crowds sha get then I suspect nerves can get hold of you and if your first couple of touches aren't brilliant then maybe you could retreat into your shell.

employing a professional who could guide the players thinking, could help.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: basavfc on January 19, 2014, 07:52:23 PM
I still blame the fans.

Those that do attend are "supporters" so please start supporting the team for 90 min no matter how shit we look at the time.
The Liverpool game(and other awaydays) shows we CAN play when the shackles are off at VP.
Take a leaf from the Brigada boys!
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: SashasGrandad on January 19, 2014, 07:59:24 PM
The TV commentator yesterday said "Villa are playing like the home team" - and I thought you obviously haven't been to Villa Park! They don't do that at home.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Legion on January 21, 2014, 06:14:56 PM
Well worth a read (http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/a-home-advantage-curse-the-psychological-view/)
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Smirker on January 21, 2014, 08:31:10 PM
I still blame the fans.

I was gonna post a thread regarding the booing but it's got to stop. I'm all for fans voicing their opinions, they've paid their money (well, we, except I've never booed), but it's just counter productive and happening far too frequently now. If we're going into half time a goal down - booed. It's almost every game now.

I want it to stop.
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Witton Warrior on January 22, 2014, 08:08:46 PM
Well worth a read (http://www.astonvillalife.com/aston-villa-blog/a-home-advantage-curse-the-psychological-view/)

"mental approach and attitude"

so who can turn that around?
Title: Re: Our Poor Home Form
Post by: Dave Clark Five on January 22, 2014, 08:22:36 PM
I still blame the fans.

Those that do attend are "supporters" so please start supporting the team for 90 min no matter how shit we look at the time.
The Liverpool game(and other awaydays) shows we CAN play when the shackles are off at VP.
Take a leaf from the Brigada boys!

Can't hear them from P8.
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