Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Chico Hamilton III on November 26, 2013, 09:51:32 AM
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Someone told me today about an an older local derby than Villa Albion. Any guesses who it is?
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Hibs v Hearts ?
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Notts County/ Forest
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is it a Sheffield derby of sorts ?
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Notts County/ Forest
correct - they drew nil nil in 1866
Not sure about Scottish games
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Hallam V Sheffield FC was first played in 1860.
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It's Saltley Carriage Works v Small Heath BSA 1865.
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Notts County/ Forest
correct - they drew nil nil in 1866
Not sure about Scottish games
What do I win?
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Notts County/ Forest
correct - they drew nil nil in 1866
Not sure about Scottish games
It's good to know that the first Nottingham derby was as memorable as all of the others down the years that I have absolutely no memory of.
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Hallam V Sheffield FC was first played in 1860.
I wasnt very clear in my criteria. I was thnking of 2 teams who are still fairly prominent.
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Blackburn v Burnley?
Blackburn v Accrington?
Accrington v Burnley?
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Blackburn v Burnley?
Blackburn v Accrington?
Accrington v Burnley?
None of them are between teams from the same town/city
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Hallam V Sheffield FC was first played in 1860.
I wasnt very clear in my criteria. I was thnking of 2 teams who are still fairly prominent.
That'll be us and West Barcelona then.
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I wish I'd never started this thread now.
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Blackburn v Burnley?
Blackburn v Accrington?
Accrington v Burnley?
None of them are between teams from the same town/city
I'm never quite sure what constitutes a 'derby'. Do they have to be from the same town/city?
If so, Aston and West Bromwich weren't part of the same city when first played.
Pedant ahoy.
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I wish I'd never started this thread now.
That reminded me of The Young Ones.
Rick - "Honestly, I don't know why I bother sometimes"
Vyvyan - "I don't know why you bother ever"
Also my stock answer whenever my wife says she doesn't know why she bothers sometimes. Which always goes down well, as you can imagine.
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Blackburn v Burnley?
Blackburn v Accrington?
Accrington v Burnley?
None of them are between teams from the same town/city
I'm never quite sure what constitutes a 'derby'. Do they have to be from the same town/city?
If so, Aston and West Bromwich weren't part of the same city when first played.
Pedant ahoy.
Oh forget it!!
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Accrington don't exist anymore so they're out.
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And Blackbun first played Burnley in 1888, according to the..ahem..Clitheroe Advertisr
http://www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/sport/burnley-fc/latest-news/history-of-burnley-v-blackburn-rovers-1-6041481
We'd already played Albion in a Cup final by then
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The works oldest derby was as stated earlier Hallam v Sheffield, and notts forest played county before villa were even formed .
We are neither the oldest derby or most played derby in football.
It is an interesting point as to what constitutes a derby as to whether we are talking teams in the same city or in the same area.
A 2008 report based on fan surveys listed West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wanderers (who contest the Black Country Derby) as having the number one rivalry in English football, while Old Firm derby matches between Scottish clubs Rangers and Celtic are known to go beyond the sport with its "enormous quantity of references to wider cultural and political issues".The first football derby played was between Hallam F.C. and Sheffield F.C. in December 1860.
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It is an interesting point as to what constitutes a derby as to whether we are talking teams in the same city or in the same area.
The Derby del Maestro (to pick one example) is between teams from Milan and Rome. So neither the same city nor the same area.
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Blackburn v Burnley?
Blackburn v Accrington?
Accrington v Burnley?
None of them are between teams from the same town/city
I'm never quite sure what constitutes a 'derby'. Do they have to be from the same town/city?
If so, Aston and West Bromwich weren't part of the same city when first played.
Pedant ahoy.
Newcastle and Sunderland is classed as a local derby yet they're 15 miles apart. Villa and Albion are less than 4 miles apart.
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Isn't Villa - Wolves an older derby?
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The East Anglian derby is fierce and there must be at least 30 miles between Ipswich and Norwich.
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Why don't Derby have a derby?
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Why don't Derby have a derby?
Take your pick forest or leicester.
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Why don't Derby have a derby?
Take your pick forest or leicester.
I was cocking around, but they aren't from the same city, so would not be a Derby on some people's scale.
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Egypt vs Canaan probably the oldest derby I can think of.
That or Sheffield v Hallam, has anyone said that yet?
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Why don't Derby have a derby?
They had one once...
http://tinyurl.com/p6c9xvy
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The East Anglian derby is fierce and there must be at least 30 miles between Ipswich and Norwich.
46!
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Hallam V Sheffield FC was first played in 1860.
I wasnt very clear in my criteria. I was thnking of 2 teams who are still fairly prominent.
What could be more prominent than the oldest team in The World playing against the team who play in the oldest ground in The World?
Don't be so elitist!
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Reform Aston Unity that's what I say. Now that would be a derby!
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There's an Aston FC playing non-league. I think Gabby's brother, the shitely-named Charisma Agbonlahor, plays for them.
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Why don't Derby have a derby?
They had one once...
http://tinyurl.com/p6c9xvy
Nice! Derby Junction - I like it.
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There's an Aston FC playing non-league. I think Gabby's brother, the shitely-named Charisma Agbonlahor, plays for them.
Really , gabbys brother is called charisma? - how charming :)
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Yes. Sicknote is in the reserves.
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I'm sure the Christians played the Lions a few times in the BC era
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I'm sure the Christians played the Lions a few times in the BC era
Definitely the AD era.
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Christians were pretty rare in the BC era, it must be said.
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Why is it called a "derby"?
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Why is it called a "derby"?
It is widely reported that the phrase originates from the town of Ashbourne, Derbyshire, England. There, since as early as the 12th century, two teams from opposite ends of the town play a rough and tumble football/rugby type of game called the Royal Shrovetide Football Match. The match is between the 'uppers' and the 'downers' - townspeople from opposite sides of the river that runs through the town. The object of the game is to get a painted leather ball into the opposition's goal by fair means or foul. You might get a flavour of the scene from the fact that the goals are three miles apart and that one of the (few) rules is that 'unnecessary' violence is frowned upon. This type of game used to be common on feast days throughout England, and this example is still played out annually at Ashbourne.
In normal circumstances evidence linking an event with a phrase having a 900 hundred-year pedigree would be persuasive. Unfortunately, there's nothing apart from local folklore, which is always present when locals lay claim to a phrase, to link the phrase to the town or to the Shrovetide match. After all, the phrase isn't 'a local Ashbourne'.
The actual source is more prosaic. The Derby is the name of the premier horse race in England and the contest was founded by the twelfth Earl of Derby in 1780. Since at least as early as 1840 'derby' has been used as a noun in English to denote any kind of sporting contest. A local derby is just a sporting contest between local rivals.
Early uses of the phrase referred to football (soccer) matches and the first printed citation appears to be the Daily Express, October 1914:
"A local Derby between Liverpool and Everton".
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As has been said above derby is a superior sporting event and therefore has been applied to football where some time ago only the local teams playing each other were a big event due to travel etc...now days it can be applied more widely.
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Scotland V England? Goes back to a thousand years or so?
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Christians were pretty rare in the BC era, it must be said.
Any that were were ahead of their time.
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The Hittites Vs The Egyptians?
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Alexander the Great 1st Eleven vs The Harans - Carrhae Stadia about 325 BC approx..Alex' lot didn't show for the return game.
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Oh yes Alexander the Greats First XI... Didn't they play all their games away from home?
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The Hittites Vs The Egyptians?
Shit on the Hittites, shit on the Hittites tonight....
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Eden vs Rest of the World
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The Vandals Versus the Visigoths was the first El classico.
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Earliest recorded "official" match I know is Kish v Elam 2630BC - Kish win home and away and pillage Elam.
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Earliest recorded "official" match I know is Kish v Elam 2630BC - Kish win home and away and pillage Elam.
Did they use public transport? I don't consider it a derby game unless you can get there by public charabanc.
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Neanderthal Invitational XI were all over Homo Sapiens, despite having comparatively tiny wodden impliments. Shocking last-minute pen gave it to the Saps. As ever, the big clubs get the decisions.
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Who won the Abu Dhabi?
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Chico, Chico, what have you done..........!
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Why don't Derby have a derby?
They had one once...
http://tinyurl.com/p6c9xvy
Nice! Derby Junction - I like it.
It appears from that we had one too:
Aston Villa 3-2 Witton 2 February 1889
and
Accrington 1-1 Blackburn Rovers 2 February 1889
Small Heath 2-3 West Bromwich Albion 2 February 1889