Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Sunny Villa on November 03, 2013, 10:28:52 PM
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Well in all my time , we have shown immense respect to every minutes silence , but by all accounts there was a group who have tarnished our reputation .
lets hope they try it at VP next week .
if you want to believe it was the rowdy concourse mob , look on youtube .
disgraceful
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You're just a little ray of sunshine, aren't you.
I know whose match day reports I believe.
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Isn't it worse to disgrace Poppy Day with the name poopy day?
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Assumed a dodgy spellcheck but he could have edited.
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From my place in the stand (far on the left looking at the pitch) it sounded as if it was coming from beneath the stand - the concourse area.
Wishful thinking?
Youtube link please?
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I'm guessing this is said Youtube clip:
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And if you can tell anything from that, well done.
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And if you can tell anything from that, well done.
Yep, can't tell anything from that clip. Would rather rely on accounts from people actually at the game.
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I was there and it was definitely from people still in the concourse area,who weren't aware of the minute's silence.
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I was there and it was definitely from people still in the concourse area,who weren't aware of the minute's silence.
This.
Definitely.
The clip shows nothing at all.
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I hate to seem disrespectful but I had a massive lol at the title typo.
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Agreed. Didn't see this thread so posted my comments on the post match thread
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i was there, the noise was coming from under the stand and from outside the ground the only noise on the terrace was of telling them to shut up (but with more colourful language). to be honest they weren't aware but how hard is it to notice you're entering a full ground just before kick off and is completely silent, it's obvious what is happening.
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i was there, the noise was coming from under the stand and from outside the ground the only noise on the terrace was of telling them to shut up (but with more colourful language). to be honest they weren't aware but how hard is it to notice you're entering a full ground just before kick off and is completely silent, it's obvious what is happening.
Agreed with most of what you say stu, but if you're in the middle of a group of people singing in an enclosed area and you're singing yourself you ain't gonna hear anything of what's happening 30 yards away out in the open.
Especially if it's silence!
Obvious is the last thing it is.
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i was there, the noise was coming from under the stand and from outside the ground the only noise on the terrace was of telling them to shut up (but with more colourful language). to be honest they weren't aware but how hard is it to notice you're entering a full ground just before kick off and is completely silent, it's obvious what is happening.
I would never disrespect a silence, but I've been at matches before where every single person in the stands has been stood there, utterly silent, and people have come up from the concourse chatting noisily, or chanting, totally unaware that there was a minute's silence on.
It can happen, and by the sounds of it, that's what happened yesterday.
Still, where there's a high horse, some people will do their utmost to clamber on to it.
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"Poopy Day".
Ha!
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"Poopy Day".
Ha!
It is SO ironic, that it has to be a typo? Surely?
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my apologies for the speling mistake , did people boo ??????
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my apologies for the speling mistake , did people boo ??????
From what I can gather, 3 things happened:
David Gold's name was mentioned as he was bringing out a wreath = some short booing.
People from the concourse below were quite rowdy entering the crowd unaware of what was happening (possibly down to the crap tannoy which was almost unintelligible),
Some Villa fans then told them to basically 'shut the fuck up'.
Seems like a bit of a misunderstanding really, with some people being a little over sensitive.
Case closed.
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t=150
This sort of stuff , is bringing our name down , add the West Ham debacle .
disgrace .
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fair
my apologies for the speling mistake , did people boo ??????
From what I can gather, 3 things happened:
David Gold's name was mentioned as he was bringing out a wreath = some short booing.
People from the concourse below were quite rowdy entering the crowd unaware of what was happening (possibly down to the crap tannoy which was almost unintelligible),
Some Villa fans then told them to basically 'shut the fuck up'.
Seems like a bit of a misunderstanding really, with some people being a little over sensitive.
Case closed.
Maybe , bad form simple as !
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t=150
This sort of stuff , is bringing our name down , add the West Ham debacle .
disgrace .
So that's your reason for bringing this up. Yet another thin excuse to slag Brigada.
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As posted elsewhere:
My opinion. They announced David Gold and some of our fans booed at his name, briefly. Then they announced Paul Faulker and that they were both coming on to the pitch with wreaths. The whole ground clapped and the next announcement, during the clapping, regarding the minutes silence, was barely audible and was probably not heard at all by those still in the concourse who continued to sing as they made their way into the stand for kick off.
I have never known our fans be deliberately disrespectful during a minutes silence.
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t=150
This sort of stuff , is bringing our name down , add the West Ham debacle .
disgrace .
So that's your reason for bringing this up. Yet another thin excuse to slag Brigada.
Far from it ! Brigada will do as they fancy , read what West Ham bods think ??????
But firing flares is accepted now then . regarding the video .
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my apologies for the speling mistake , did people boo ??????
maybe bad form simple as!
From what I can gather, 3 things happened:
David Gold's name was mentioned as he was bringing out a wreath = some short booing.
People from the concourse below were quite rowdy entering the crowd unaware of what was happening (possibly down to the crap tannoy which was almost unintelligible),
Some Villa fans then told them to basically 'shut the fuck up'.
Seems like a bit of a misunderstanding really, with some people being a little over sensitive.
Case closed.
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i was there, the noise was coming from under the stand and from outside the ground the only noise on the terrace was of telling them to shut up (but with more colourful language). to be honest they weren't aware but how hard is it to notice you're entering a full ground just before kick off and is completely silent, it's obvious what is happening.
I would never disrespect a silence, but I've been at matches before where every single person in the stands has been stood there, utterly silent, and people have come up from the concourse chatting noisily, or chanting, totally unaware that there was a minute's silence on.
It can happen, and by the sounds of it, that's what happened yesterday.
Still, where there's a high horse, some people will do their utmost to clamber on to it.
I done exactly this at Liverpool. Pissed up singing in the concourse, walked onto the terrace oblivious there was a minutes silence (should have known) and got told to shut up (with a lot more expletives). I wasn't being disrespectful, just wasn't paying attention... it happens.
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I didnt get in the ground till after kick off and had no idea that a minute silence was/had taken place. I do know that 2 or 3 of the turnstiles broke down whilst trying to get in the ground so there was quite a lot of noise from pissed off Villa fans trying get in who had no idea there was a silence going on.
On a side note trying to get a drink at Half Time was a joke aswell. Police had to close the bar before the half time whistle had even gone with the amount of pushing and crushing going on.
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This can be easily done. A couple of seasons ago when we played at home after selling I went into the ground and said hello to one of the stewards. I was met with a stony silence and a finger pressed to his lips. I felt awful but was genuinely unaware.
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t=150
This sort of stuff , is bringing our name down , add the West Ham debacle .
disgrace .
So that's your reason for bringing this up. Yet another thin excuse to slag Brigada.
Did you not see them throwing streamers at 1.21? Think of the children!
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I was there too, the place is a disgrace, the tannoy was barely audible, the "concourse in the away end was carnage before during and after the game, the tubes were fucked so a long wait and more crushing to get on them.......thanks god for Fulham away.
UTV
The Doc
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The tannoy was terrible I couldn't hear anything that was said from just behind the goal so what chance has anyone got of knowing what was going on
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I was there too, the place is a disgrace, the tannoy was barely audible, the "concourse in the away end was carnage before during and after the game, the tubes were fucked so a long wait and more crushing to get on them.......thanks god for Fulham away.
UTV
The Doc
The problem with the concourse at West Ham is that its too narrow, so you're constantly getting crushed and knocked.
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I have never known our fans be deliberately disrespectful during a minutes silence.
This.
I wasn't there but from what other people have said who were there, the original post does sound like a moan for the sake of it.
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t=150
This sort of stuff , is bringing our name down , add the West Ham debacle .
disgrace .
So that's your reason for bringing this up. Yet another thin excuse to slag Brigada.
"I hate racism and anti-racism"
What a fun debate that was.....
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I have never known our fans be deliberately disrespectful during a minutes silence.
This.
I wasn't there but from what other people have said who were there, the original post does sound like a moan for the sake of it.
Agreed.
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Something very similar happened when we played at Craven Cottage in early Novermber a few years ago (2011?). Everyone was silent except for a few fans who were underneath the stand, unaware of the silence above. Half a dozen blokes singing makes a real noise when everyone else is silent.
Not for the first time, Sunny Villa is talking nonsense.
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And if you can tell anything from that, well done.
Do I need to get new speakers for my computer because I can't hear a thing apart from a couple of blokes sounding as if they have been strangled?
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And if you can tell anything from that, well done.
Do I need to get new speakers for my computer because I can't hear a thing apart from a couple of blokes sounding as if they have been strangled?
Dirty northern cants! Is about all you can make out. Its all about the respect guv.
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I was there too, the place is a disgrace, the tannoy was barely audible, the "concourse in the away end was carnage before during and after the game, the tubes were fucked so a long wait and more crushing to get on them.......thanks god for Fulham away.
UTV
The Doc
The problem with the concourse at West Ham is that its too narrow, so you're constantly getting crushed and knocked.
I remember it being bedlam down there for the Mellberg 'thanks for your support' game
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Brigada seem to be doing their best to create some atmosphere, that is only a good thing if you ask me. Lots of singing and banners, all good.
The flares should be dropped though. I think they look really good, especially at a night game. But it is an accident waiting to happen and non of us want to see people injured at a game.
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I was there too, the place is a disgrace, the tannoy was barely audible, the "concourse in the away end was carnage before during and after the game, the tubes were fucked so a long wait and more crushing to get on them.......thanks god for Fulham away.
UTV
The Doc
The problem with the concourse at West Ham is that its too narrow, so you're constantly getting crushed and knocked.
I remember it being bedlam down there for the Mellberg 'thanks for your support' game
I was at that game too and indeed it was Richard.
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I find it a bit disrespectful filming a minutes silence. Shouldn't the 'filmer' be concentrating on remembering those who made their sacrifices for us rather than trying to make a silly point.
Good view of our away support though.
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
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On a side note trying to get a drink at Half Time was a joke aswell. Police had to close the bar before the half time whistle had even gone with the amount of pushing and crushing going on.
they shut the kiosk because come bell-end set off a smoke bomb on the concourse, just before half time.
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
What happened at half time jj?
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
What happened at half time jj?
Wasting bad tasting, warm, expensive beer.
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Smoke bombs seem to be getting popular with dickheads. Stop them now, dangerous.
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
What happened at half time jj?
Wasting bad tasting, warm, expensive beer.
I've never understood the need to throw beer around that you've just paid the best part of £4 for.
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
On a side note trying to get a drink at Half Time was a joke aswell. Police had to close the bar before the half time whistle had even gone with the amount of pushing and crushing going on.
they shut the kiosk because come bell-end set off a smoke bomb on the concourse, just before half time.
If the only people they search are women with handbags, they are unlikely to find these things being taken into the ground.
Without generalising, this sort of thing will continue to happen until the novelty of the free coaches wears off. There are some right pillocks getting to games at the moment. It was evident from the moment that I got in the ground that beer had been thrown everywhere. Yes, it isn't everyone, not by a long chalk but more idiots go away when there are free coaches.
It always baffles me when people insist on drinking at half time then moan that they have to queue and further moan when the beer is crap. What do you expect, for fucks sake? It is all about carrying on the away pub atmosphere into the ground. Same difficulty getting served and same bad beer.
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The larger the allocation, the larger the "waey, we're lads, we'll do what we want" behaviour increases. Blackburn for example used to be a good example of this.
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It should all be back to normal for Sunderland away. 800 or 900 of us, easy to get a beer ( chilled as well because it will be sub zero), no queue for the toilets etc.
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I'd expect Sunderland to be a free coach game.
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The larger the allocation, the larger the "waey, we're lads, we'll do what we want" behaviour increases. Blackburn for example used to be a good example of this.
Oh, how I miss Blackburn away. Not. It was a nightmare.
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I'm a little surprised there was even an observance of a minutes silence on the 2nd of November, next weekend is surely the most appropriate time to mark rememberance, every team home or away will have an opportunity to observe a minutes silence. Maybe people just weren't expecting it. There was no observance at Twickenham on Saturday for England v Australia.
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
On a side note trying to get a drink at Half Time was a joke aswell. Police had to close the bar before the half time whistle had even gone with the amount of pushing and crushing going on.
they shut the kiosk because come bell-end set off a smoke bomb on the concourse, just before half time.
If the only people they search are women with handbags, they are unlikely to find these things being taken into the ground.
Without generalising, this sort of thing will continue to happen until the novelty of the free coaches wears off. There are some right pillocks getting to games at the moment. It was evident from the moment that I got in the ground that beer had been thrown everywhere. Yes, it isn't everyone, not by a long chalk but more idiots go away when there are free coaches.
It always baffles me when people insist on drinking at half time then moan that they have to queue and further moan when the beer is crap. What do you expect, for fucks sake? It is all about carrying on the away pub atmosphere into the ground. Same difficulty getting served and same bad beer.
This. I remember going to Everton and I had a drawstring sports bag with me (full as well), nothing happened, just bopsed straight in. Without doubt I could have blown a lot of people up that day, and it genuinely worried me.
I also don't know why ANYONE drinks at half time, even the most ardent drinkers.
Also, I thought this case was closed. Is there really anything else to say about what happened during the minutes silence? As for the smoke bomb, there will always be bell ends unfortunately.
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I'm a little surprised there was even an observance of a minutes silence on the 2nd of November, next weekend is surely the most appropriate time to mark rememberance, every team home or away will have an opportunity to observe a minutes silence. Maybe people just weren't expecting it. There was no observance at Twickenham on Saturday for England v Australia.
Surprised me too. I have to say that those who were on the terraces observed the silence impeccably. It was very clear that the noise was coming from the concourse area and not the stands.
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A few of the travelling support really let us down on Saturday. The behaviour at half time was disgraceful.
On a side note trying to get a drink at Half Time was a joke aswell. Police had to close the bar before the half time whistle had even gone with the amount of pushing and crushing going on.
they shut the kiosk because come bell-end set off a smoke bomb on the concourse, just before half time.
If the only people they search are women with handbags, they are unlikely to find these things being taken into the ground.
Without generalising, this sort of thing will continue to happen until the novelty of the free coaches wears off. There are some right pillocks getting to games at the moment. It was evident from the moment that I got in the ground that beer had been thrown everywhere. Yes, it isn't everyone, not by a long chalk but more idiots go away when there are free coaches.
It always baffles me when people insist on drinking at half time then moan that they have to queue and further moan when the beer is crap. What do you expect, for fucks sake? It is all about carrying on the away pub atmosphere into the ground. Same difficulty getting served and same bad beer.
I also don't know why ANYONE drinks at half time, even the most ardent drinkers.
When I sometimes go for a piss towards the end of the first half at away games, i'm always amazed at how many people are queuing for a beer.
At Norwich, there was a very big chap sitting two or three seats away from us with a laptop type bag and every so often he opened it up to take a swig from a bottle of Bacardi.
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Someone using the poppy issue to score points is infinitely more disrespectful than a few inadvertently disrupting the minute's silence. Well done.
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Someone using the poppy issue to score points is infinitely more disrespectful than a few inadvertently disrupting the minute's silence. Well done.
This.
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I'm a little surprised there was even an observance of a minutes silence on the 2nd of November, next weekend is surely the most appropriate time to mark rememberance, every team home or away will have an opportunity to observe a minutes silence. Maybe people just weren't expecting it. There was no observance at Twickenham on Saturday for England v Australia.
That's what I was thinking too. Next Saturday and Sunday are the days for it just as it always has been.
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I'm a little surprised there was even an observance of a minutes silence on the 2nd of November, next weekend is surely the most appropriate time to mark rememberance, every team home or away will have an opportunity to observe a minutes silence. Maybe people just weren't expecting it. There was no observance at Twickenham on Saturday for England v Australia.
That's what I was thinking too. Next Saturday and Sunday are the days for it just as it always has been.
I agree. In a semblance of balance I assume the Hammers were looking to choose the closest home game to 11 November to mark the event.
They won the world cup in 1966 so they probably think they won a couple of world wars too.
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I'm a little surprised there was even an observance of a minutes silence on the 2nd of November, next weekend is surely the most appropriate time to mark rememberance, every team home or away will have an opportunity to observe a minutes silence. Maybe people just weren't expecting it. There was no observance at Twickenham on Saturday for England v Australia.
That's what I was thinking too. Next Saturday and Sunday are the days for it just as it always has been.
Why would there have been a silence at Twickers last Saturday when England have another home game next week ?
Whilst I agree that such things should be kept for the closest weekend ti Nov 11, I assume that each teams wants to have a remembrance at a home game.
West Ham don't have another home game until Nov 23rd, so it made sense for them to do their silence at the Villa game.
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a season ticket holding West Ham friend of mine said it was because it was their nearest home game to the 11th Nov....
He said alot of the home support in the stand to our left of the away end said they were disgusted that the Villa did not observe the minutes silence, I put him right about that.......it came from the concourse and not the support already in the seats.
UTV
the Doc
** DAMN....just beat me to it you two....
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Something very similar happened when we played at Craven Cottage in early Novermber a few years ago (2011?). Everyone was silent except for a few fans who were underneath the stand, unaware of the silence above. Half a dozen blokes singing makes a real noise when everyone else is silent.
Not for the first time, Sunny Villa is talking nonsense.
I was going to mention this - I think it was 2009 assuming it was the same match. It sounded awful under that hollow stand, yet there was no doubt that they, pissed as they were, meant no disrespect.
I've always thought that the silences are very well observed, even when it's for the other club's great and good. I can't believe it would have been deliberately flouted on Saturday.
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I don't see why every club has to mark this occasion, only if they have a home game at the time. I do hope that these are not being introduced for fear of the club being criticised for a lack of aknowledgement following the recent accusations of "poppy fascism".
Laying of wreaths by club dignitaries is rather over the top as well. Surely this type of ceremony should be confined to services and events at memorial sites?
As ever with commemoration I believe less is more.
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Just remember, every time Bono claps his hands, a child dies.
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I don't see why every club has to mark this occasion, only if they have a home game at the time. I do hope that these are not being introduced for fear of the club being criticised for a lack of aknowledgement following the recent accusations of "poppy fascism".
Laying of wreaths by club dignitaries is rather over the top as well. Surely this type of ceremony should be confined to services and events at memorial sites?
As ever with commemoration I believe less is more.
Quite correct Nec. On every single point.
9 days before is a little excessive. Not surprised some fans didn't know it was happening.
Rememberance Sunday and the actual 11th November itself is sufficient.
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As an American, who visited Villa Park during a Poppy Day silence a few year ago, I must say I was utterly impressed with minute's worth of silence. I never knew you could get 40,000-some people THAT quiet in a venue. The only sound I heard was a baby crying from the opposite stand.
You could NEVER get a minutes worth of that much silence at an American event. There's always some jackass hooting or hollering looking for some quick attention. Or inevitably someone yelling out, "<insert scapegoat of the month>, YOU SUCK!". And the very best, you'll get plenty of hushed murmurs or whispering going on. At Villa Park, I probably could of heard a poppy drop.
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I've just read 5 pages of shit on this thread. Moaning about people having a beer at an away game! Get a fecking grip. Fans taking advantage of free coaches.. the cheeky bastards.
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I've just read 5 pages of shit on this thread. Moaning about people having a beer at an away game! Get a fecking grip. Fans taking advantage of free coaches.. the cheeky bastards.
You could have stopped reading if you were that outraged.
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Clampy. I wasn't outraged. I'm bemused by fellow Villa fans. Some of the moaning is beyond belief.
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Clampy. I wasn't outraged. I'm bemused by fellow Villa fans. Some of the moaning is beyond belief.
What moaning bemused you the most out of interest?
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Fans having the audacity to go on free coaches and queuing for a beer are my favourite moans. I like moaning, I'm a brummie it's in my DNA but moan about our midfield.
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Who has moaned about that?
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Fans having the audacity to go on free coaches and queuing for a beer are my favourite moans. I like moaning, I'm a brummie it's in my DNA but moan about our midfield.
I think the point about the free coaches was because it can tend to attract the one's who can't take their drink. As for queuing for a beer, that was probably me. The point I was making was I couldn't understand why people who've paid in some cases £40 for a ticket choose to miss 10-15 mins of a match to queue for a pint. It wasn't a moan, just an observation.
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On the subject of beer queueing at half time, as bad as Blackburn became, they had a great machine for pulling 6 pints at a time which made for super quick serving before we wrecked the toilets one season and then oddly enough they stopped selling beer to us after.
After Lambert's statement today about how we've got another 2 years of this shite to put up with ( more if we don't keep the squad together wtf!) I'm more than happy to do the pre half time beer queueing to avoid watching the game.
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Fans having the audacity to go on free coaches and queuing for a beer are my favourite moans. I like moaning, I'm a brummie it's in my DNA but moan about our midfield.
Congratulations! That's the most ill informed "weigh in on a thread" post I've seen in a while.
You've won the internet.
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I was still trying to get in the ground whilst the minutes silence was presumably going on. There was a bottleneck as some idiot stewards had decided to close the first two turnstiles that I had patiently queued up at, and it was only after a long wait that I got in through the third one. During this time the Villa supporters outside the ground were understandably getting frustrated and this might have been heard inside the ground.
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Weirdest minute's silence I ever witnessed was on a cross-channel ferry. The duty free shop was like a game of musical statues, fat lorry drivers standing motionless staring at kilo boxes of Golden Virginia. Middle aged ladies looking sadly and respectfully at big bars of Toblerone.
It was a fitting tribute, I always think.
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I find it very odd what people construe as moaning on here sometimes.
I genuinely couldn't care less what other people did at half time, I merely just don't understand it, especially when some will miss 5 mins of a game they've forked out for just to queue. Everyone's own prerogative.
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I don't see why every club has to mark this occasion, only if they have a home game at the time. I do hope that these are not being introduced for fear of the club being criticised for a lack of aknowledgement following the recent accusations of "poppy fascism".
Laying of wreaths by club dignitaries is rather over the top as well. Surely this type of ceremony should be confined to services and events at memorial sites?
As ever with commemoration I believe less is more.
Quite correct Nec. On every single point.
9 days before is a little excessive. Not surprised some fans didn't know it was happening.
Rememberance Sunday and the actual 11th November itself is sufficient.
tbh it took me a while on Saturday to realise what was going on and why we were having a minute's silence. I assumed it was for someone connected with WHam, then I sort of realised. I'd been talking to the bloke next to me.
I just think it's inappropriate that far ahead of the real date. A minute's silence at the games nearest to 11/11 is respectful. To do it nearly 10 days in advance is taking it a bit too far imho.
My boss was wearing his poppy two weeks ago! What the f**k's that about? To show he cares more than everybody else?
It's Christmas Day on 25th December, but f**k it, let's start tomorrow!
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And...I was in the ground about 2 o'clock and queued for about half an hour to get a beer. There were FIVE people in front of me when I joined the queue! They need to get time and motion bloke in. The service was shite!
My mate's daughter is disabled and when she came with us last year was told she would have to use the loo at the other end of the ground!
(A very nice, very old WHam lady steward took her to the ordinary ladies in the end.)
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I suppose they can't be arsed to improve facilities when they're leaving soon.
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I remember a special 2 minutes silence in November 2004, which for some reason was observed outside our building. After we trotted back inside to our desks a young Australian temp asked a colleague of mine " was that for Emlyn Hughes?" (He had died a few days previously ).
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I find it very odd what people construe as moaning on here sometimes.
I genuinely couldn't care less what other people did at half time, I merely just don't understand it, especially when some will miss 5 mins of a game they've forked out for just to queue. Everyone's own prerogative.
Some like to drink, like me (but rarely in the away end of a football ground). Others like to be seen drinking.
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Weirdest minute's silence I ever witnessed was on a cross-channel ferry. The duty free shop was like a game of musical statues, fat lorry drivers standing motionless staring at kilo boxes of Golden Virginia. Middle aged ladies looking sadly and respectfully at big bars of Toblerone.
It was a fitting tribute, I always think.
Damon that has cheered me up...what a lovely story..
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I always used to find if you got more pissed than the pissed up knobheads you tended not to notice them so much.
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I always used to find if you got more pissed than the pissed up knobheads you tended not to notice them so much.
That will be why I managed to go so many seasons without noticing them. There were times when I couldn't enter a football ground unless I had had at least a gallon, especially in the mid - late 80s.
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I always used to find if you got more pissed than the pissed up knobheads you tended not to notice them so much.
That will be why I managed to go so many seasons without noticing them. There were times when I couldn't enter a football ground unless I had had at least a gallon, especially in the mid - late 80s.
Haha, top tips, I may have to see how much more damage my liver can take before the Cardiff match. If you see a man attempting to fly from the upper north, that'll be me.