Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: eamonn on October 08, 2013, 12:27:00 PM
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?% Villa but it's a quiet week.
I watched the documentary on youtube a few months ago having not seen it previously and was curious about the fuss over it. Seems quite ironic that in an age where reality-tv docudrama continues to reign, (cheap to make and endless variations of social-behaviour to record and dramify) that Graham and the FA allowed this back then. Even now, the few football-related ones made with harmless intentions make the protagonists look idiots (that one on the people running QPR and Brendan Rodger's Liverpool diary thing). You just can't imagine any high-profile manager would allow this type of footage to be primed for prime time telly:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24354888
Do I not like that: 20 years since Graham Taylor's World Cup failure
By Tom Rostance
BBC Sport
"If you say 'Holland' to me, to this day I see David Platt running through on goal. I can't help it. When things don't go well as an England manager, it sticks with you for the rest of your life."
Wednesday, 13 October, 1993 is a date lodged firmly in the mind of former England manager Graham Taylor.
Three years into the job, three years after Bobby Robson, Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker had captured the nation's hearts by reaching the semi-finals of Italia 90, the unthinkable happened.
A controversial defeat by the Netherlands in Rotterdam, with Ronald Koeman scoring the opener minutes after he should have been dismissed for a professional foul, effectively ended England's chances of qualifying for the 1994 World Cup in the United States.
Thanks to a warts-and-all documentary broadcast on Channel 4 a year later, images of Taylor's touchline fury and exasperation remain etched in England fans' collective memory.
Taylor produced some memorable lines in 'The Impossible Job':
"Can we not knock it?"
"Do I not like that..."
"It's got to go, son. It's got to go big. It's got to go big!"
"Go Les! Hit Les! Hit Les over the top!"
"Wrighty? It's made for Wrighty to come on and score, isn't it?"
"The referee's got me the sack. Thank him ever so much for that won't you?"
After a poor Euro 92 which saw England eliminated in the group stages after scoring just once in three games, Taylor's maiden World Cup campaign got off to a bad start.
Leads at home to Norway and then the Netherlands were painfully squandered, putting qualification in doubt.
"We played very well in both of those games and if we had won just one, which we deserved to, we would have been OK," Taylor remembers.
But the away double-header in May and June of 1993 did not go well either.
A draw in Poland and defeat away against leaders Norway in the space of four days left Taylor's side up against it. However, after an impressive 3-0 win over Poland at Wembley, England's fate was in their own hands going into the penultimate fixture in Rotterdam.
"We were a point above the Netherlands, with two games to go," says Taylor. "A draw would have been enough for us to qualify and we were as confident as we could expect to be."
The Match
With captain Stuart Pearce injured and Lazio midfielder Paul Gascoigne suspended, Taylor made five changes to his side.
Off the pitch, he was called on to help smuggle in the documentary crew after they were denied access by the Dutch FA. The crew donned England tracksuits and carried their film equipment into the stadium in team kitbags.
Once the match kicked off, Leeds full-back Tony Dorigo - standing in for Pearce - smashed a long-range free-kick against the post, while Frank Rijkaard had an effort for the hosts disallowed in a goalless first half.
So far, so good.
The Koeman incident
The match, England's hopes and Taylor's career were all transformed by a two-minute spell around the hour mark. Andy Sinton - on at half-time in place of Carlton Palmer - hit a long ball over the top for David Platt to run on to.
The England skipper was hauled to the ground by Koeman, but referee Karl-Josef Assenmacher decided to only show the Barcelona man a yellow card, rather than red.
The documentary was to show Taylor imploring the German official to send Koeman off, memorably asking fourth official Markus Merk: "What sort of thing is happening here?"
Even 20 years on, Taylor is incensed by the decision.
"I could not believe what I was seeing. It was a goalscoring opportunity and Koeman should have gone," he says. "Fifa had made a very strong point in the weeks before the game that the denial of a goalscoring opportunity was a straight red card.
"He should have been sent off, absolutely."
After the game, Koeman admitted he had expected to be dismissed. Instead, Dorigo's free-kick was blocked by the advancing Dutch wall and two minutes later the home side were given a free-kick at the other end.
To heighten England's sense of injustice, it was Koeman who stepped up to score. His first effort was charged down by Ince, but he made no mistake second time around, with ITV commentator Brian Moore's prophecy of "he's going to flick one, he's going to flick one" proving accurate as he curled the ball into the top corner.
"That was when I lost it," Taylor says. "I honestly felt that we were being cheated. The referee was favouring the home side, I really felt that, as the free-kick we had blocked was exactly the same.
"The only other occasion in my career I felt like that was when I was in charge of Lincoln and we had a terrible penalty awarded at Birmingham. But this was obviously worse.
Ronald Koeman scores the free-kick
Ronald Koeman scores the free-kick which ultimately seals England's fate
"I lost the plot because I honestly and truthfully felt that England were being cheated in a vital game for the country.
"That was the worst I've ever been on a touchline. I'd never been like that before. But that is the one time I end up on film, so that's what people remember."
Paul Merson hit the post again but a second goal for the Netherlands followed, with Dennis Bergkamp scoring.
"The referee's got me the sack," Taylor told the linesman in the closing minutes. "Thank him ever so much for that won't you?"
Taylor concluded his reign with a futile 7-1 win in San Marino in November 1993, as the Netherlands secured qualification by beating Poland. Taylor resigned six days later.
"I try not to think about what would have happened next if Koeman had been sent off," Taylor says. "I'm sure we would have qualified for the World Cup and I probably keep my job. But that's
THE DOCUMENTARY
Film-maker Ken McGill and his team had been recording Taylor and his team throughout the qualifiers. Taylor had agreed to take part in the programme as he hoped it would show the differences between club and international management.
But as results turned for the worse, the focus shifted to Taylor himself - the man in the 'Impossible Job', the title of the film which more than six million people tuned in to watch.
The Sun's reaction to Taylor's England resignation
How the Sun newspaper portrayed Taylor following his resignation as England boss
"I didn't ever expect that we wouldn't qualify, I was arrogant enough to think that," admits Taylor.
"So I was keen to show the problems of being England manager. Then, as the results went on and we didn't qualify, I became more central to the documentary, quite rightly.
"You're the country's number one villain."
Taylor thought about cancelling filming before the trip to Norway in June 1993, but knew that the written press - who were already hostile towards him - would seize on it as an admission England would not qualify.
"One positive which came out of it is that people saw I was passionate about the job," Taylor says. "But I can't watch it. I put a little bit of the documentary on my computer recently but I couldn't watch it.
"I said to myself 'don't watch it Graham, because for the next week you'll be down'."
In the aftermath of his resignation - and being labelled a 'turnip' by the Sun newspaper in 1992 - Taylor considered leaving the country. Instead he stayed and rebuilt his club career, taking Watford back to the top flight.
The documentary was a hit. But McGill, who has also made films with Gascoigne, Lennox Lewis and Ian Botham, has mixed feelings 20 years on.
Taylor may have been able to return to work, but his assistant Phil Neal was criticised for being 'a yes man' after the documentary was broadcast. At the time, he was England's most decorated player, yet his managerial career never recovered, with a brief spell in charge of Manchester City in 1996 his last job as a coach.
"At the time I felt terrible," McGill admits, "not only for Graham but I also feel responsible for Phil not being able to earn a living in football any more.
"If it wasn't for Graham's help, we would not have been able to film in Rotterdam. We would have missed all of that drama.
"I found it hard to take the consequences of the film. But there is nothing I would change. It is a piece of honest film-making."
Graham Taylor's England record (1990-93)
P: 38; W: 18; D: 13; L: 7
Top scorer: David Platt (16)
New caps given: 29
Last debutant: Stuart Ripley
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70346000/jpg/_70346691_teams.jpg)
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Phil Neal was the funniest thing about that documentary. Beyond parody.
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I was thinking of posting this, I thought the way the media treated Graham after the debacle in Rotterdam was disgraceful, shame he did not stay at the Villa instead of taking over England's poison chalice.
I have never met Graham, but I bet he is a really nice fella.
UTV
The Doc
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I wonder does he ever wish that he had stayed with us.
I guess turning down England would have always been the biggest regret.
It's interesting to read of his self-honesty and dignity on the issue the same week that 'arry is serialising his auto-biography complete with sob story/bitching on missing out with the England job.
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The Sun's treatment of Sir Graham was disgraceful.
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How I wish he'd stayed at Villa.
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The media treatment of SGT was an utter disgrace, especially by The Scum. Just another in a long line of reasons to never ever buy that piece of shite rag.
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May 1987 - takes over team who finished bottom of Division 1
May 1990 - leaves team having finished runners up in Division 1.
For that, I will always be grateful to SGT.
The blokes a genius.
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I've had that clip of "Go Les" on my playlist for a few years now.
No one has greater love and respect for SGT than me, but it never fails to amuse me, along with one where he screams at Platty.
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Serves him right for putting Carlton Palmer in the side!
(And yes, that was a joke)
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The media treatment of SGT was an utter disgrace, especially by The Scum. Just another in a long line of reasons to never ever buy that piece of shite rag.
None of us can imagine what it is like to have your life and career torn to shreds in public for what amounts to be "a bit of a larf" and to sell papers. To be ridiculed endlessly because of a game is another in a long line of reasons why England will never again be anything on the world stage. The entire system is set up to fail at pretty much every level. He made a number of mistakes during that tenure and naturally as Villa fans we feel the most hurt because of what we know he did for us and is capable of. But you have to think much of it was down to the intense scrutiny partly caused because he wasn't the tabloids choice for England manager. I will forever remember him for what he did for our club and not for those ill fated few years as England manager.
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Serves him right for putting Carlton Palmer in the side!
(And yes, that was a joke)
I heard a rumour he might be joining the Villa
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The turnip thing was just crass and hurtful journalism. Even today, the tabloids seem to think that England losing a game of football is a major event and we should all care.
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But you have to think much of it was down to the intense scrutiny partly caused because he wasn't the tabloids choice for England manager
Agree that he was treated like absolute shit by the media - as Robson was before him, prior to the "success" in Italia 90 - but wasn't Taylor the nailed on favourite for the England job as soon as Robson announced he was leaving in 1990?
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To be ridiculed endlessly because of a game is another in a long line of reasons why England will never again be anything on the world stage.
I don't really see that as having much to do with it. The scrutiny placed on the manager of Italy or Brazil in those countries is absolutely huge from the media and they seem to cope alright.
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To be ridiculed endlessly because of a game is another in a long line of reasons why England will never again be anything on the world stage.
I don't really see that as having much to do with it. The scrutiny placed on the manager of Italy or Brazil in those countries is absolutely huge from the media and they seem to cope alright.
Do they stick turnips on their heads too? I'm not for a moment saying that the manager of the national side should not face scrutiny but what happened back then was beyond that. By a long way. It was made very clear that they didn't want him and taking the piss was the best solution.
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I watched the programme when it was originally shown but I will never watch it again. It is just a reminder of England being cheated. It is also a reminder of SGT being cheated, how he reacted on camera (probably a lot better than most of us would) and the subsequent ridiculing of him.
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how he reacted on camera (probably a lot better than most of us would)
Exactly. Imagine a warts and all documentary on, say, Arsene Wenger after Arsenal have been dumped out of the champs league again? Or Fergie when he failed to get his own way. They’d look like absolute babies.
In fact, I reckon most premier league managers behave worse every week than Taylor did in that documentary.
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There's a bit in it - quite uneasy to watch, (as, the whole programme largely is) of him trying to be cordial with the press while also making clear that he's nobody's fool. And the camera pans to Brian Woolnough, with a look that suggests he's sharpening his knife.
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I remember SGT light heartedly trying to get Rob Bishop to cheer up and be optimistic before one game. Bishop remained stony faced.
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The trouble for Taylor was he took over as England needed to transition from the 80's with a group of new players. Gascogne for all his promise was slowly going off the rails and the whole thing was being held together by Platt. Ultimately though I don't think he was up to the job and for all the cruelty of the press which was way over the line I believe he was just a very good club manager who got dealt a really bad hand when he tried International football.
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To be fair to SGT as well, Gascoigne was probably one of the best players in the World when he was Manager of England.
Things would probably have been very different if he hadn't knackered his leg in the 91 Cup Final.
I'd be interested to see how many England matches Gascoigne played under SGT. Not many I wouldn't have thought.
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He also had Alan Shearer out for most of his final year and because of the European ban few of the players had grown up playing foreign opposition.
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To be ridiculed endlessly because of a game is another in a long line of reasons why England will never again be anything on the world stage.
I don't really see that as having much to do with it. The scrutiny placed on the manager of Italy or Brazil in those countries is absolutely huge from the media and they seem to cope alright.
Do they stick turnips on their heads too? I'm not for a moment saying that the manager of the national side should not face scrutiny but what happened back then was beyond that. By a long way. It was made very clear that they didn't want him and taking the piss was the best solution.
I seem to remember that Dunga got phenomenal amounts of abuse from the media when Brazil were knocked out of the 2010 World Cup and was getting a lot of stick from them a long time before that.
I don't think Mano Menezes fared much better after the Copa America and Olympics.
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The majority of the stick Dunga got was because he somehow managed to convert the most flamboyant team on the planet into Scotland.
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I saw an article recently called top six tactical blunders.
It cited Gascoigne being dropped for Cowans, then went on to say
how as a consequence England got a decent 1-1 draw away to Ireland.
how can that be classed as a blunder?
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They probably meant blinder.
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found it
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/jul/31/newsstory.sport1
I remember it because I stumbled onto it after reading alot of those "on second thoughts" articles.
There was a really good one on that famous rapper John Barnes.
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I was thinking of posting this, I thought the way the media treated Graham after the debacle in Rotterdam was disgraceful, shame he did not stay at the Villa instead of taking over England's poison chalice.
I have never met Graham, but I bet he is a really nice fella.
UTV
The Doc
I have had the pleasure twice and you are right.
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Never seen this programme, would love to (watching Youtube for about an hour would knacker my internet costs a fair bit).
In those days just the group winners went through, there was no play off reprieve for teams who finished 2nd. Looking at that line up, Holland had a pretty decent team (think they reached the quarters of USA 94) England were very much in transition.
What probably amused me more from looking at that campaign was how on earth England actually fell behind after 7 seconds or something to San Marino?! When you watch England play the minnows now they barely even cross the halfway line so that just amuses me a fair bit,dunno how much footage of that game is on there.
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What's always impressed me is Taylor's restraint. If it were me, I wouldn't have been able to form actual words, let alone swear so little.
The trouble is that by making him little better than a cartoon, most fans have the view that Taylor was a massive fool. Personally, I do think England had enough talent to do better but I don't think that's remotely Taylor's doing entirely. Many have raised good points in the discussion above, but one factor that seems to have got lost in the story is that England ran Holland, between a European Championship semi and World Cup quarter final, close enough in the group to make it interesting until the final night. Add to this probably the best team Norway will ever have and there was little room for failure.
It's actually fairly rare these days for England to have such a tricky qualification group. By and large, we've been pretty fortunate to only have to worry about Poland, Turkey, Montenegro et al, with the odd Germany and Italy thrown in every decade or so.
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Agree with the poster who said that Sir Graham should not have left us; I wish he hadn't we were doing so well, but I understand why he did.
The turnip thing is easily the worst thing about a man who was England manager ever printed.
Tell me worse, without quoting headlines about, 'he doesn't know what he's doing'. Everybody's had that. The turnip face thing was absolutely personal and I don't think they have done it again.
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found it
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/jul/31/newsstory.sport1
I remember it because I stumbled onto it after reading alot of those "on second thoughts" articles.
There was a really good one on that famous rapper John Barnes.
That is a travesty of a paragraph. Firstly, he treats Sid's name as if it's a punchline, which is not just disrespectful, it's contrary to the facts of reality. Secondly, he mentions that he was 32 years old, but don't mention how brilliant Sid had been in those few seasons and that 32 isn't that old now, and it wasn't that old then, especially considering the professionalism of Sid, and the shape he was in. Thirdly, he says that Sid hadn't played for England for half a decade, but neglected to mention that this was a disgrace, and the equivalent of how Scholes was eased out a decade later - we English, often, just don't get that kind of player.
Finally, in the next paragraph, he mentions how it was a gutsy and possibly even correct decision, but says it precipitated other bizarre decisions, which he then lists - well, why not mention one of them, then? That little paragraph is microcosm of the English media's attitude to Villa, to deep lying playmakers and to facts - namely, dismissive.
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In related news Paul Gascoigne is now on Twitter. That'l go well, I'm sure.
I remember Sir Graham being one of the first to raise concern about his "re-fuelling" habits. It may have been from a sporting and fitness perspective but it was fairly prescient.
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found it
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/jul/31/newsstory.sport1
I remember it because I stumbled onto it after reading alot of those "on second thoughts" articles.
There was a really good one on that famous rapper John Barnes.
That is a travesty of a paragraph. Firstly, he treats Sid's name as if it's a punchline, which is not just disrespectful, it's contrary to the facts of reality. Secondly, he mentions that he was 32 years old, but don't mention how brilliant Sid had been in those few seasons and that 32 isn't that old now, and it wasn't that old then, especially considering the professionalism of Sid, and the shape he was in. Thirdly, he says that Sid hadn't played for England for half a decade, but neglected to mention that this was a disgrace, and the equivalent of how Scholes was eased out a decade later - we English, often, just don't get that kind of player.
Finally, in the next paragraph, he mentions how it was a gutsy and possibly even correct decision, but says it precipitated other bizarre decisions, which he then lists - well, why not mention one of them, then? That little paragraph is microcosm of the English media's attitude to Villa, to deep lying playmakers and to facts - namely, dismissive.
Its bonkers, I have heard other people dismiss SGT with lines like "he was an England manager who dropped Gazza
for Gordon Cowans" before, but this guy acknowledges it had a positive outcome then labels it as a blunder.
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And here's a fact which illustrates that old Edison line about 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration: Sid was better, more consistently over the course of his entire career than Gazza. And won bigger prizes.
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Just shows what a over inflated sense of their own self importance the London press have always had of themselves and has been one of the unfortunate by products of Sky getting the premiership deal in 1992
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Can you imagine if he had stayed.
We may have gone and been a real contender in the 90's and whole united dominance thing may not have occured
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What's always impressed me is Taylor's restraint. If it were me, I wouldn't have been able to form actual words, let alone swear so little.
The trouble is that by making him little better than a cartoon, most fans have the view that Taylor was a massive fool. Personally, I do think England had enough talent to do better but I don't think that's remotely Taylor's doing entirely. Many have raised good points in the discussion above, but one factor that seems to have got lost in the story is that England ran Holland, between a European Championship semi and World Cup quarter final, close enough in the group to make it interesting until the final night. Add to this probably the best team Norway will ever have and there was little room for failure.
It's actually fairly rare these days for England to have such a tricky qualification group. By and large, we've been pretty fortunate to only have to worry about Poland, Turkey, Montenegro et al, with the odd Germany and Italy thrown in every decade or so.
Yep that's the thing. Imagine England gets drawn with Holland in the next euros group, would anyone really expect England to win the group given how sh*t hot Holland usually are in qualification. Plus you had norway and Poland in that group aswell who have been difficult opponents for England down the years.
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What probably amused me more from looking at that campaign was how on earth England actually fell behind after 7 seconds or something to San Marino?! When you watch England play the minnows now they barely even cross the halfway line so that just amuses me a fair bit,dunno how much footage of that game is on there.
The documentary ends showing the San Marino goal. I'm not sure how much to believe the film-maker's assertion that he felt bad for Graham when the whole thing was edited to make him look a divvy.
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Interesting that the other five examples in that piece were all 'fatal' mistakes for the team whereas we got a point from a tricky away game and qualified for the Euros. The national press never did like Sid because he wasn't Glenn Hoddle. He was a sort of Glenn Hoddle. Except Sid could head a ball, tackle and had League Championship and European Cup winners medals.
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Interesting that the other five examples in that piece were all 'fatal' mistakes for the team whereas we got a point from a tricky away game and qualified for the Euros. The national press never did like Sid because he wasn't Glenn Hoddle. He was a sort of Glenn Hoddle. Except Sid could head a ball, tackle and had League Championship and European Cup winners medals.
I love this... :)
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And here's a fact which illustrates that old Edison line about 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration: Sid was better, more consistently over the course of his entire career than Gazza. And won bigger prizes.
I put this to Sid once directly. I asked him how he felt about the media coverage of it, given he was a better player than Gascoigne, at which point he laughed at me and told me he wasn't fit to lace Gazza's boots.
I guess that's a measure of the class and humility of the man.
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The majority of the stick Dunga got was because he somehow managed to convert the most flamboyant team on the planet into Scotland.
Surely the principle remains the same though?
Great though he was for us, and despite lots of the criticisms being overblown (that daft Guardian article for example) it would still be difficult to describe Tayor's time with England as a success. So I don't really feel there is much difference between the Brazilian media going after an unsuccessful manager and the English media going after an unsuccessful manager.
The point still remains that the press in other countries (even those who are really quite successful) are every bit as vindictive and vitriolic as they are here, which is really the only point I was making.
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There was an interview with SGT in yesterday's Telegraph and he said that The Sun editor (was it Kelvin Mackenzie?) had told him to lighten up about being called a turnip, it was just a bit of fun. SGT said that this 'bit of fun' had two drunk Brentford fans chuck their full pint glasses at him, at Griffin Park, and would have got nastier if security hadn't stepped in.
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation? Also, i seem to recall seeing a 'Robson Out' badge issued by one of the tabloids in an article about his tenure.
It's possible any manager taking the job at that time would have been coruscated for poor form, as I think there was such an old boy's network of skullduggery and spite, and when you couple it with a no-holds barred attitude which was taking sport onto the front pages and better print technology, but in particular, a naturally friendly and open fella such as SGT never stood a chance.
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation?
He'd had an affair a few years earlier and the tabloids dragged it all up again
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But you have to think much of it was down to the intense scrutiny partly caused because he wasn't the tabloids choice for England manager
Agree that he was treated like absolute shit by the media - as Robson was before him, prior to the "success" in Italia 90 - but wasn't Taylor the nailed on favourite for the England job as soon as Robson announced he was leaving in 1990?
IIRC it was between him and Howard Kendall who had recently come back from Spain and took over at Cit-eh. Neither Kendall or Venables applied so basically only one candidate. It was pre wilko's League title win
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Managers all around the world get stick from the media. I doubt many get it at the personal level we see over here at times though. There is a difference between having a go at a manager (which SGT deserved for his England time) and going down the personal abuse route, which no manager deserves.
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation? Also, i seem to recall seeing a 'Robson Out' badge issued by one of the tabloids in an article about his tenure.
I remember in the run up to the 1990 World Cup - and in the group stage - England had some decidedly unimpressive results, and Robson got absolutely slaughtered in the press.
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I saw an article recently called top six tactical blunders.
It cited Gascoigne being dropped for Cowans, then went on to say
how as a consequence England got a decent 1-1 draw away to Ireland.
how can that be classed as a blunder?
Especially as Gasgoigne was clearly not fit to play. He may not have had a bad injury but he was in no position to play that day.
Besides Sid took John Barnes (injured)place and Steve McMahon took Gascoigne's place and the formation was tweaked.
This needs to be balanced. Rijkaard's goal in Rotterdam in the first half was wholly legitimate - he completely schooled Lee Sharpe to score.
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation? Also, i seem to recall seeing a 'Robson Out' badge issued by one of the tabloids in an article about his tenure.
I remember in the run up to the 1990 World Cup - and in the group stage - England had some decidedly unimpressive results, and Robson got absolutely slaughtered in the press.
Indeed. 1-2 at home to Uruguay and 1-1 away in Tunisia.
Prior to that in the winter / spring they had impressive wins v Yugoslavia (World in Motion video) and Brazil and a draw v very strong Italian side.
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And here's a fact which illustrates that old Edison line about 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration: Sid was better, more consistently over the course of his entire career than Gazza. And won bigger prizes.
I put this to Sid once directly. I asked him how he felt about the media coverage of it, given he was a better player than Gascoigne, at which point he laughed at me and told me he wasn't fit to lace Gazza's boots.
I guess that's a measure of the class and humility of the man.
He was much less talented, but most are. He made far more of his talent than Gascoigne did, however, and was more consistent and effective over the course of his career. Yes, there are things Gazza did which neither Sid nor most players could dream of doing, but in between these moments there were huge, arid deserts of injury, unfitness and underperformance from Gazza - during which time, Sid quietly got on with being one of the best creative midfielders in Britain if not Europe. In any other country, Gazza and Sid would have formed the basis of the national team, and later on Paul Scholes, but we instead love Bryan Robson and Owen Hargreaves, apparently.
And yes, what he said there indeed reflects the class of the guy.
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation? Also, i seem to recall seeing a 'Robson Out' badge issued by one of the tabloids in an article about his tenure.
I remember in the run up to the 1990 World Cup - and in the group stage - England had some decidedly unimpressive results, and Robson got absolutely slaughtered in the press.
1986 was worse after the first 2 group games. The defeat to Portugal (in the days when they were considered shit) and the 0-0 with Morocco. Media and fans we giving absolute pelters to the team and manager. Flag burning after the Morocco game.
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation? Also, i seem to recall seeing a 'Robson Out' badge issued by one of the tabloids in an article about his tenure.
I remember in the run up to the 1990 World Cup - and in the group stage - England had some decidedly unimpressive results, and Robson got absolutely slaughtered in the press.
1986 was worse after the first 2 group games. The defeat to Portugal (in the days when they were considered shit) and the 0-0 with Morocco. Media and fans we giving absolute pelters to the team and manager. Flag burning after the Morocco game.
We got through by virtue of a Lineker hat trick in the final group game v Poland, with a 3-0 victory. On the morning of the game, Brian Glanville wrote in the Sunday Times that it was clear Lineker was not good enough for international football. They are a savvy lot those journalists.
Graham Taylor was always going to struggle by virtue of inheriting an ageing team after Italia 90 (which contained some very talented individuals), long term injuries to Shearer and Gascoigne and having almost no international football experience as player or manager. Further, most of his players had no experience of European football. He couldn't turn down the national team manager role, but it would have been brilliant if he had stayed with us.
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But you have to think much of it was down to the intense scrutiny partly caused because he wasn't the tabloids choice for England manager
Agree that he was treated like absolute shit by the media - as Robson was before him, prior to the "success" in Italia 90 - but wasn't Taylor the nailed on favourite for the England job as soon as Robson announced he was leaving in 1990?
IIRC it was between him and Howard Kendall who had recently come back from Spain and took over at Cit-eh. Neither Kendall or Venables applied so basically only one candidate. It was pre wilko's League title win
Kendall was mentioned, along with Venables and Joe Royle, but as soon as it was announced Robson was leaving everyone knew it was SGT's job. He was in a TV studio during Italia '90 when they were doing an interview with Steve McMahon, who asked "Should I call you boss?".
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I do believe the first recipient of the spiteful press among England managers was Bobby Robson. Didn't he threaten to quit over some tabloid allegation? Also, i seem to recall seeing a 'Robson Out' badge issued by one of the tabloids in an article about his tenure.
I remember in the run up to the 1990 World Cup - and in the group stage - England had some decidedly unimpressive results, and Robson got absolutely slaughtered in the press.
Indeed. 1-2 at home to Uruguay and 1-1 away in Tunisia.
Prior to that in the winter / spring they had impressive wins v Yugoslavia (World in Motion video) and Brazil and a draw v very strong Italian side.
If I remember right the 'Robson Out' badges, along with 'Clough in' badges were The Sun's idea after we failed to qualify for the '84 Euros. They popped up again at various times in future years. I think it was also The Sun who came up with 'In the name of Allah go now' after a friendly draw in Saudi Arabia. And a headline after we drew with Ireland in the opening game of Italia '90 saying 'Send them home'.
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The media treatment of him was a disgrace. Met him in the flight to Hamburg a few years ago and he is as he seems - an absolute gent.
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I've met him aswell at the NEC, top bloke.
Turns out I got it wrong anyway and Norway actually won the group, England were 3rd. Seems strange aswell looking at that table they were still using 2 points for a win in the 90s not that it made a difference.
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I am sure if we had Shearer we would have got to the USA. Some of the team for 1990 had gone and we did not have the players either.
The Sun had it in for him following 1992 and their treatment of a fine footballing man was a disgrace. I would sooner live with out news if that was the only paper you had to buy.
A friend of mine met him in 2006 and mentioned the Villa and he stopped and talked for 15 mins about the club and what the club meant to him. So apart from being a very good manager he is also a really nice man.
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The only Villa game I was able to attend with SGT in charge was the 1-3 win at Chelsea on the last day of the 2001/02 season.
At the end of the game my Dad managed to grab him for a second and asked "What are you going to do with all those strikers you have?" (Crouch, Vassell, Angel, Balaban, Dublin and a sixth...who I can't place - Allback hadn't joined yet, had he?)
SGT, quick as a flash, replied "Keep hold of them, I hope".