Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: onje_villa on July 22, 2013, 10:12:02 AM
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Though it's early days, was wondering what people have made of our new signings so far. I haven't been able to catch any of the games or highlights (apart from the goals against Wycombe) and was wondering if any have stood out? Has Okore played yet? Heard he was injured.
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Don't think we will know properly until they have all played in the Prem.
Good to see Helenius bagging a couple though.
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someone mentioned that Lambert was on sky talking about new signings did anyone catch it ?
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I saw the three German matches. Luna, Bacuna, Tonev, Helenius could all step in to the first team, no worries. Luna is already an improvement on Bennett at left back. Okore looked nothing like his Chelsea youtube and Steer isn't quite ready yet either.
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I wonder if Lambert has a view re which left back he'll tend to as a natural starter, Bennett or Luna?
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It's too early in pre-season but Helenius is looking quite sharp and Bacuna put in a lovely ball for Lowton on Sat.
Okore played the first friendly but went off with a tweaked hamstring after about 15-20mins. I've heard he's training though so sounds like a minor thing.
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Matt Kendrick:
Villa now have eight injuries, including half of their new signings.
Jores Okore, Aleksandar Tonev, Helenius, Agbonlahor, Joe Bennett, Marc Albrighton and now Weimann and Bowery will be spending time on the treatment table rather than the practice pitches.
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I thought Bacuna looked pretty good and Luna was okay. Other than that, none of the new signings were playing. Oh and Steer didn't concede and made one good save.
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Cheers guys. I guess the one we need the most from will be Okore. Our defence is a real concern.
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Ask me after 10 PL games.
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Matt Kendrick:
Villa now have eight injuries, including half of their new signings.
Jores Okore, Aleksandar Tonev, Helenius, Agbonlahor, Joe Bennett, Marc Albrighton and now Weimann and Bowery will be spending time on the treatment table rather than the practice pitches.
You can add N'Zogbia to that list too, good job Benteke is staying as I can't think of another senior forward/attacking mid who is currently fit and available.
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Think we need a couple of older head signings. I know it's not our policy, but i don't want to go into this season banking on what we have at the moment.
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Matt Kendrick:
Villa now have eight injuries, including half of their new signings.
Jores Okore, Aleksandar Tonev, Helenius, Agbonlahor, Joe Bennett, Marc Albrighton and now Weimann and Bowery will be spending time on the treatment table rather than the practice pitches.
You can add N'Zogbia to that list too, good job Benteke is staying as I can't think of another senior forward/attacking mid who is currently fit and available.
Is Delfouneso back?
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Matt Kendrick:
Villa now have eight injuries, including half of their new signings.
Jores Okore, Aleksandar Tonev, Helenius, Agbonlahor, Joe Bennett, Marc Albrighton and now Weimann and Bowery will be spending time on the treatment table rather than the practice pitches.
You can add N'Zogbia to that list too, good job Benteke is staying as I can't think of another senior forward/attacking mid who is currently fit and available.
Is Delfouneso back?
I thought he was one of the "bomb squad", with Hutton, Given, Bent, Ireland, Stevens and Bannan, on the transfer list and training with the kids? Certainly wasn't involved v Wycombe with the likes of Grealish, Carruthers, Burke, Bowery etc picked ahead of him.
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Matt Kendrick:
Villa now have eight injuries, including half of their new signings.
Jores Okore, Aleksandar Tonev, Helenius, Agbonlahor, Joe Bennett, Marc Albrighton and now Weimann and Bowery will be spending time on the treatment table rather than the practice pitches.
If you go on the Physioroom PL site, Villa are top with 9 injured players, just above Man Utd on 7!!
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Bacuna's crossing has been very good I think.
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Bacuna can play all over the pitch can't he? I expect him to be the Holman in the squad this year, hopefully he can be a little better.
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Steer did concede I'm afraid. Last kick of the game at Bochum. From the angle we were at it was impossible to tell if he got anywhere near a well struck shot. Bacuna looks very sharp but the stand out player for me has been Gary Gardner.
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Matt Kendrick:
Villa now have eight injuries, including half of their new signings.
Jores Okore, Aleksandar Tonev, Helenius, Agbonlahor, Joe Bennett, Marc Albrighton and now Weimann and Bowery will be spending time on the treatment table rather than the practice pitches.
If you go on the Physioroom PL site, Villa are top with 9 injured players, just above Man Utd on 7!!
I think we've been top of that league for the last 2 and a half years.
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Bacuna's crossing has been very good I think.
What position has he been playing?
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Helenius has got a couple of goals. I expect he'll have a good impact coming in and out the side, and from the bench. I'm hoping the fact Tonev and Okore haven't had much playing time pre-season won't hinder them. I'm expecting plenty from both. Tonev initially as an impact sub you'd expect. Bacuna looks promising. Good energy, plenty of industry but some quality with it.
I'm confident that our bench will be far stronger next season. Gardner being back is a plus.
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Is Gardener good enough to challenge for a starting spot? I know he's extremely well-regarded by those who follow the reserves closely.
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Is Gardener good enough to challenge for a starting spot? I know he's extremely well-regarded by those who follow the reserves closely.
We'll see, but I'd rather have him on the bench than Bannan. He certainly deserves his chance to show what he's made of. He could also potentially be one of a midfield three who could chip in with a few goals. As things stand though, I think Bacuna is ahead of him in the pecking order.
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Thanks Tom. Definitely has a feel of BFR's first season in charge with the new arrivals.
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Bacuna's crossing has been very good I think.
What position has he been playing?
Various as far as I can tell, looks very versatile, but when he's found space on the wings his accuracy of crossing has been excellent.
Terrific to hear that Gardner's doing so well. A considerable talent and bloody unlucky last season. Hopefully this year is the breakthrough.
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Hard to judge - Westwood started slow last year and ended up being a stand out performer. 10/12 games in is the time to be judging.
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Bacuna looks very sharp but the stand out player for me has been Gary Gardner.
Excellent and even better!
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Is Gardener good enough to challenge for a starting spot? I know he's extremely well-regarded by those who follow the reserves closely.
Certainly if we keep the three central midfielders formation. Gardner hasn't blown me away in his appearance so far but at least he's someone who can actually run into the box and get on the end of things, he could easily have scored at Wolves and Newcastle in 11/12.
I'd still expect Lambert to sign an attacking central midfieler by the end of the window but GG is certainly an option for that role once he gets his fitness up.
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Bacuna I think will be a bit of a cult player. Probably like Sylla. The more I see Yacouba the more I like him. Bacuna was a little disappointing against Luton. A bit sloppy with his touch and passing, but he's shown glimpses of quality in pre-season so far. He's got some ability to go with his energy, but I'd guess he's gonna be one of those players that just needs to control himself a little better. That eagerness can just effect control and decision making. He'll learn that though.
As some of said, he's naturally the upgrade on Holman. Offers everything Brett did, but with more quality and age on his side.
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Is Gardener good enough to challenge for a starting spot? I know he's extremely well-regarded by those who follow the reserves closely.
Not from what I've seen. Not yet anyway. He's not adjusted too well to the pace of games, even friendlies. He may need a lengthy rehab period
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From what I've seen, I think Luna is the most likely to go straight into the team, partly as a result of who he's up against.
I did think Okore was the most likely. But he's only played 45 mins so far, was apparently a bit sketchy, and is only 20 years old which is very young for a centre back.
Bacuna has looked intermittently threatening and energetic, though he lost the ball a lot v Luton. I think he may start as back up to sylla and Weimann
Not seen enough of Tonev or helenius bar the latter's straight forward goals.
Though I've been pleased with our early business, there is a broad indication that we're happy with the side that finished last year. I'd have thought we should be looking to improve the first team not just the squad.
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Just reading Gary Neville's biog (I know I know) but what has struck me is his honesty about his own ability and that the Fergie Fledgling years were about hard work and team ethics ie how winning was instilled into them from a young age. They were told Liverpool were the fancy dans and fancy dans didn't win anything. They all knew the ethos and they dared not step out of line. Result a team that wins not individuals. I suspect this is what Lambert is trying to do. Upgrades are fine but only if they fit the ethic
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Just reading Gary Neville's biog (I know I know) but what has struck me is his honesty about his own ability and that the Fergie Fledgling years were about hard work and team ethics ie how winning was instilled into them from a young age. They were told Liverpool were the fancy dans and fancy dans didn't win anything. They all knew the ethos and they dared not step out of line. Result a team that wins not individuals. I suspect this is what Lambert is trying to do. Upgrades are fine but only if they fit the ethic
I agree. Somehow we need to raise the bar slowly across the whole squad. Most of this can be done through good coaching and marginal gains (a la Team Sky). Signing a player on big bucks to become an individual talisman is unlikely because as you suggest it could upset the balance of the whole squad.
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Fair enough, but I'm not sure we've a Scholes or beckham no matter what the ethos!
It's actually a serious point. I think lambert draws inspiration from Dortmund. But they've got a massive advantage: German kids are technically much better and far more numerous than English youngsters.
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Fair enough, but I'm not sure we've a Scholes or beckham no matter what the ethos!
It's actually a serious point. I think lambert draws inspiration from Dortmund. But they've got a massive advantage: German kids are technically much better and far more numerous than English youngsters.
Westwood and Albrighton. ;)
Actually Westy's pretty good at doing a latter day Scholes job for us (minus the godawful tackles).
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A lot of our kids now are foreigners though.
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I prefer not to take a view until I've seen them in the flesh, as it were.
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Fair enough, but I'm not sure we've a Scholes or beckham no matter what the ethos!
It's actually a serious point. I think lambert draws inspiration from Dortmund. But they've got a massive advantage: German kids are technically much better and far more numerous than English youngsters.
I kinda disagree there. I think there are plenty of good, young, English players. I think the reason you dont see many Dortmunds (in Germany or England) is its bloody hard, requires a very special coach, time and a lot of patience.
Amazingly we are potentially in a position to follow that path and we actually have a fan base and owner who are willing to have the patience.
Think about it, last season lambert benched our best player, put us in the relegation zone, presided over the most humiliating defeat in our premier league history ,had us knocked out of a cup by Bradford , brought in a spurs offcast and a French League two player as his "fixes" in January and yet we STILL didnt turn on him.
His new signings are also likeable guys, even Benteke arguably the one with the worst attitude seems to be pretty affable and enthusiastic when playing, the rest always just look delighted to be there. This club is all in for the project, I am loving it.
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I prefer not to take a view until I've seen them in the flesh, as it were.
Far too early to judge any of them. I remember people on here condeming Sylla after his debut! It takes time for players to bed into a squad properly.
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Fair enough, but I'm not sure we've a Scholes or beckham no matter what the ethos!
It's actually a serious point. I think lambert draws inspiration from Dortmund. But they've got a massive advantage: German kids are technically much better and far more numerous than English youngsters.
I kinda disagree there. I think there are plenty of good, young, English players. I think the reason you dont see many Dortmunds (in Germany or England) is its bloody hard, requires a very special coach, time and a lot of patience.
Amazingly we are potentially in a position to follow that path and we actually have a fan base and owner who are willing to have the patience.
Think about it, last season lambert benched our best player, put us in the relegation zone, presided over the most humiliating defeat in our premier league history ,had us knocked out of a cup by Bradford , brought in a spurs offcast and a French League two player as his "fixes" in January and yet we STILL didnt turn on him.
His new signings are also likeable guys, even Benteke arguably the one with the worst attitude seems to be pretty affable and enthusiastic when playing, the rest always just look delighted to be there. This club is all in for the project, I am loving it.
Which English youngsters would you compare to gundogan, reus, gotze, kroos, muller, draxler, etc?
Our youngsters have bombed out of every tournament this summer and previous summers. I think we've a bit of a crisis going on personally
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They don't need to be *that* good. You're comparing us to two teams that just got to the champions league final, there are shades of grey in between which would reward us handsomely.
The Germans are currently better at coaching their youngsters, but culturally they're more inclined to give them games too. I think the two things are somewhat linked.
Hopefully with St Georges Park, the new academies structure and seemingly a new appetite for investing in young players in this country we too might get better at the coaching part. However I cannot see Chelsea, Man U, Man City or the like risking chucking kids into the money hungry Premier League whereas Villa can take that risk.
Ultimately we cannot and never will be able to compete with those clubs financially so we have to find a different USP in order to compete (a bit like Dortmund have compared to Bayern Munich). Being the club that prioritise and get the most out of their young players (homegrown and scouted) can be 'our thing', our philosophy which separates us from the rest. It won't be easy or a smooth ride but it's got to be better than being "Chelsea Lite".
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Which English youngsters would you compare to gundogan, reus, gotze, kroos, muller, draxler, etc?
Our youngsters have bombed out of every tournament this summer and previous summers. I think we've a bit of a crisis going on personally
Wait you want specifics? Dammit.
Ok, it is fair to say Germany is much stronger than us right now, but I genuinely do not believe we are that far behind.
The reason I poo pooed the notion of English players not being good enough is I feel it has been used as an excuse by England managers for too long (and blaming the premier league which is also nonsense). I think we DO have a crisis in international football but it is not with the players but managers. They have us play backward stone age football, we need decent coaches and managers imho.
England is a footballing nation, I think if you look at Lamberts ability to just scoop up players like Lowton and Westwood from god knows where, I take that as proof he is either a genius (unlikely) or there is plenty of talent out there if you just look and play them.
That make sense? Sorry, very drunk here in california. ;D
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I read lambert's transfer strategy as a bit of a condemnation of the talent coming through at villa and in England generally. He has a bunch of 21-23 year olds who were much feted coming through what is meant to be one of the best academies in the country.
What does he do? Brings in 6 players of a similar age from across Europe and bombs out bannan, fonz, Williams while most of us are questioning why he's hanging on to Clark and albrighton
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With regards to Gardner, we really need to be patient with him. I'm just hoping his injuries haven't killed him, he looked like he was going to be a special player.
Out of the new guys, Helenius has impressed the most, obviously with his goals. I just wonder if he is going to be backup or starting with Benteke. I don't think Luna is a massive upgrade on Bennett, but both have potential to be pretty good players.
Ive not seen Tonev or Okore and only saw Bakuna for an hour against Luton, he was pants. But not going to judge him on that. If the season was starting tomoreow this is how I would go.
--------------------------------Guzan-----------------------------------
Lowton----------Okore---------------Vlaar-------------Bennett
-----------------------Delph---------Westwood---------------------
---------------------------------Sylla------------------------------------
Weimann-----------------------------------------------Agbonlahor
-------------------------------Benteke----------------------------------
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The key to Lambert's transfer policy would seem to be that talent isn't enough without the right attitude. Perhaps the young players in this country have grown up with the attitude that they've 'made it' the moment they graduate to the seniors? Application, dedication and the right attitude can get you much further than natural talent alone.
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Fair enough, but I'm not sure we've a Scholes or beckham no matter what the ethos!
It's actually a serious point. I think lambert draws inspiration from Dortmund. But they've got a massive advantage: German kids are technically much better and far more numerous than English youngsters.
I kinda disagree there. I think there are plenty of good, young, English players. I think the reason you dont see many Dortmunds (in Germany or England) is its bloody hard, requires a very special coach, time and a lot of patience.
Amazingly we are potentially in a position to follow that path and we actually have a fan base and owner who are willing to have the patience.
Think about it, last season lambert benched our best player, put us in the relegation zone, presided over the most humiliating defeat in our premier league history ,had us knocked out of a cup by Bradford , brought in a spurs offcast and a French League two player as his "fixes" in January and yet we STILL didnt turn on him.
His new signings are also likeable guys, even Benteke arguably the one with the worst attitude seems to be pretty affable and enthusiastic when playing, the rest always just look delighted to be there. This club is all in for the project, I am loving it.
I think Lambert was given the backing of the fans because he had succeeded McLeish, and whoever had followed him was going to be given somewhat of an easier ride. Had he followed MON or Houllier i'm not so sure the fans would have been so forgiving. The back end of the season suggests we turned a corner and players like Lowton and Westwood looked like seasoned Prem players.
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The key to Lambert's transfer policy would seem to be that talent isn't enough without the right attitude. Perhaps the young players in this country have grown up with the attitude that they've 'made it' the moment they graduate to the seniors? Application, dedication and the right attitude can get you much further than natural talent alone.
I think this is a key point. There were even hints of it under Houllier. While Houllier brought through Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and they all had good seasons that year, he saw that the senior players at villa were not setting a good example and so made his list of demands with regard to commutes and training ground activity.
I always got the sense that McLeish let discipline slip when he was at villa. Things didn't seem that strict and we didn't look like a serious outfit. Perhaps the likes of Bannan started to act a bit Johnny big bollocks for it? I think Lambert is cut from the same kind of cloth as a Ferguson or Houllier, i.e he knows what it takes to win and therefore having the right players rather than the best players is what counts. The McLeish year genuinely was a year zero for us! I just couldn't see him dealing with all the bad apples we had.
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Perhaps he knew that it was going to be a short tenure so couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
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Perhaps he knew that it was going to be a short tenure so couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
Or he was just a cock smoking bum banging useless piece of shite.
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Nah, he's a decent bloke. Was just out of his depth.
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Perhaps he knew that it was going to be a short tenure so couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
Or he was just a cock smoking bum banging useless piece of shite.
Do you have to come out with such homophobic daftness?
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Perhaps he knew that it was going to be a short tenure so couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
Or he was just a cock smoking bum banging useless piece of shite.
Do you have to some out with such homophobic daftness?
I'm not homophobic Dave, but McDickhead was a worthless piece of shite in my opinion, and more infuriatingly, he came from that shower in bordesley green....so yes a cock smoker of he highest calibre.
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Perhaps he knew that it was going to be a short tenure so couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
Or he was just a cock smoking bum banging useless piece of shite.
Do you have to some out with such homophobic daftness?
I'm not homophobic Dave, but McDickhead was a worthless piece of shite in my opinion, and more infuriatingly, he came from that shower in bordesley green....so yes a cock smoker of he highest calibre.
You're not homophobic, but you use homophobic language. How does that work? No, don't answer that, just please don't say it again.
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Perhaps he knew that it was going to be a short tenure so couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
Or he was just a cock smoking bum banging useless piece of shite.
Do you have to some out with such homophobic daftness?
I'm not homophobic Dave, but McDickhead was a worthless piece of shite in my opinion, and more infuriatingly, he came from that shower in bordesley green....so yes a cock smoker of he highest calibre.
I'm afraid these posts make you come across as a bit of a tool. A worthless piece of shit? He's not a war criminal. He didn't fuck us over. He just wasn't good enough
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Agreed. Always thought McLeish was a really likeable chap, in fact my Uncle, who is as Villa as they come, met him a bunch of times while he was working in Scotland and said you'd struggle to meet a nicer bloke. If I were to go for a pint with any of our previous five managers, it would be McLeish hands down.
Having said that, he's still a biblically shit football manager.
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I read lambert's transfer strategy as a bit of a condemnation of the talent coming through at villa and in England generally. He has a bunch of 21-23 year olds who were much feted coming through what is meant to be one of the best academies in the country.
What does he do? Brings in 6 players of a similar age from across Europe and bombs out bannan, fonz, Williams while most of us are questioning why he's hanging on to Clark and albrighton
It's all about opinions and Bannan and Fonz have had opportunities and not really delivered or stepped up to the challenge. Lambert sees these players every day in training and presumably has come to the conclusion they're not for his vision of Villa's future.
Regarding Clark and Albrighton, the latter's start in the first team didn't develop after the first flush of anticipation, plus his injury hasn't helped, while Clark is still developing IMO and Lambert must see something in him that he rates.
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I'm not homophobic Dave, but McDickhead was a worthless piece of shite in my opinion, and more infuriatingly, he came from that shower in bordesley green....so yes a cock smoker of he highest calibre.
So anyone you don't like is insulted by making them out as gay? But you are not homophobic?
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Why are posters nasty about McLeish. He was the Manager at a shitty club who got offered the chance to manage Aston Villa. He was out of his depth and paid the price. He has not bad mouthed Villa (that I know of) so you can hardly insult him for trying to make a go of it.
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Why are posters nasty about McLeish. He was the Manager at a shitty club who got offered the chance to manage Aston Villa. He was out of his depth and paid the price. He has not bad mouthed Villa (that I know of) so you can hardly insult him for trying to make a go of it.
100% this
It would be like making me head surgeon at the QE - i would have a real good go but regrettably my talent would not be up to it
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My concern with all the new signings, is how long it will take for Lambo to work out his best team - who is performing, who works best with his system and style of play.
Last season cost us early on e.g. Hollman, Ireland etc once we got a settled side were started to move forward and get some some results.
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Agreed. Always thought McLeish was a really likeable chap, in fact my Uncle, who is as Villa as they come, met him a bunch of times while he was working in Scotland and said you'd struggle to meet a nicer bloke. If I were to go for a pint with any of our previous five managers, it would be McLeish hands down.
Having said that, he's still a biblically shit football manager.
This.
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My concern with all the new signings, is how long it will take for Lambo to work out his best team - who is performing, who works best with his system and style of play.
Last season cost us early on e.g. Hollman, Ireland etc once we got a settled side were started to move forward and get some some results.
That's a good point although I hope he starts with what we finished with and then evolve as players get tired/injured or perform exceptional well in the cups or when coming on as sub.
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That new signing Benteke aint too bad is he?
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Saw the highlights of the Crewe game and hardly recognised the players. Plenty of bedding in to be done...might result in a sluggish start (especially considering the opposition).
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Saw the highlights of the Crewe game and hardly recognised the players. Plenty of bedding in to be done...might result in a sluggish start (especially considering the opposition).
I'm the same. I sit there watching them celebrate a goal, thinking who the hell are they all? I don't recognise Shaun Teale or Gary Penrice amongst any of them...
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I like Bacuna. A lot of energy. Very adaptable. He's an awkward dribbler. It's almost like he's trying to dribble a ball of fire. He makes it look like he hasn't got it under control, but then he has. His goal was brilliant too.
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Just seen Bacunas goal. Very excited by this player.
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I like Bacuna. A lot of energy. Very adaptable. He's an awkward dribbler. It's almost like he's trying to dribble a ball of fire. He makes it look like he hasn't got it under control, but then he has. His goal was brilliant too.
When receiving the ball last night he generally gave it straight back - great for keeping possession but I would like to have seen him looking up and around a bit more. His goal was completely opposite to this - the cut in from the right and strike with his left were lovely to watch. I think he'll settle in and grow in confidence and take a few more risks like he did with the goal.
Great potential.
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Which cheapo midfielder should I go for in my fantasy team - Bacuna, Tonev or Gardner?
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Which cheapo midfielder should I go for in my fantasy team - Bacuna, Tonev or Gardner?
I'd say Bacuna at the minute. Closely followed by Tonev. Helenius up front might worth a go.
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Bacuna looks a very strong and fit lad. He'll do just fine
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Bacuna looks a very strong and fit lad. He'll do just fine
I agree, I think he's going to be ideally suited to us and the pace of the game.
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Which cheapo midfielder should I go for in my fantasy team - Bacuna, Tonev or Gardner?
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Lowton at right back or Tony Moon at left back. But then we won't have any clean sheets, so scrub that idea.
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Luna looks good going forward from the little I have seen, got lots of energy and seems well up for being a success. Bacuna, I think he can be a good player, good ball control and Lambert type of player as keeps the ball. Not seen any of the others, but am quietly excited about the season, we will score lots of goals. Love the way Lambert has installed a great team spirit and am sure we will improve on last season.
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I think injurys permitting we'll start at Arsenal with the front three and middle three that served us so well at the end of last season.
I reckon the defence aswell will be Lowton-Vlaar-Okore- Luna but Okore needs to play some games.
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I think injurys permitting we'll start at Arsenal with the front three and middle three that served us so well at the end of last season.
I reckon the defence aswell will be Lowton-Vlaar-Okore- Luna but Okore needs to play some games.
Agree. I think the midfield three and front three are still first choice after their performances in the second half of last season. The encouraging thing for me is that when everyone is fit, we will have a lot more options on the bench this season, including players who may be able to come on and change games. We could be looking at a bench of:
Steer, Baker, Gardner, Bacuna, El Ahmadi, Tonev, Helenius
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I will be taking in my first pre season game against Malaga so will judge properly then.
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I will be taking in my first pre season game against Malaga so will judge properly then.
Part-Timer!
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Agreed. Always thought McLeish was a really likeable chap, in fact my Uncle, who is as Villa as they come, met him a bunch of times while he was working in Scotland and said you'd struggle to meet a nicer bloke. If I were to go for a pint with any of our previous five managers, it would be McLeish hands down.
Having said that, he's still a biblically shit football manager.
The last line of that just made me snort with laughter.
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Can any of them take a decent corner/free kick? Westy puts a reasonable ball in but otherwise we are short on set piece takers unless Tonev, Bacuna, Luna etc are useful?