Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Londonvilla on July 18, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
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New three-year contract!!!!!! Ciaran Clark is he all that?
Generally, under the circumstances that the Villa find themselves in, I am happy and contented with the decisions that Paul Lambert has made to date, taking into consideration no one gets things 100% right. However when he first joined us, I was disappointed when he made it clear that in his opinion Ciaran Clark was a centre half, when I believe Ciaran Clark is a defensive midfield player and can only play centre half if we go to 3 at the back.
Ciaran Clark in my opinion may have potential as a ball playing centre half if hes playing alongside someone who is very very quick. He still has problems with his decision-making (this may get better with experience) and I do feel it was a good idea for us to renew his contract. However a three-year contract would indicate that neither side really has faith in each other and Ciaran may find himself spending the next three years sitting on the bench and never getting the opportunity to play first-team football and improve.
In the modern game Ciaran unlike Richard Dunne, is comfortable on the ball, can find a man with a pass, can run into space with the ball under his control, but like a number of modern defenders cant tackle for toffee, and his spatial awareness in relation to looking out for danger, borders on the criminal
Is Ciaran Clark any good? My fear is we will never find out, because where he could hold his own in a defensive midfield position, he probably will never be good enough to stand out as a centre half.
Is my analysis about right? Ciaran Clark may be all that, but we will never find out, because unless we go down he will never get the chance to shine.
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In regard to the can't tackle for toffee thing, I wonder whether that's something we as fans need to adjust our expectations to. Centre-halves aren't allowed to tackle in the way that we're accustomed to. They have to have a better all-round game, in the way you mention Clark has, to compensate for the change in the laws.
Reading about Mcgrath elsewhere on the site reminds me how wonderful he was; he's one of the few from the past who would make a seamless transition into the modern game. I can't see Terry Butcher, as good as he was at the time, doing so.
I reckon Clark deserves the chance to make some progress.
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I'll be honest, I'm not as confident in him as I used to be. But I still think there's a top player in there somewhere.
I also confess to wanting one more experienced centre half in as I'm not completely convinced with any of our centre halves. There's a lot of potential there. They may be ace.
But I'm not relaxed about that area of the field by any stretch. I also used to think Clark was more promising than Baker. Now I'm sure its the other way around.
All the best Ciaran. I hope you realise how talented you can be. Always a cut above the rest at youth level.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
Yeah. We should just get rid of all the players. Let Clark go on a free next summer. Good plan.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
You'd have let Weimann go for nothing next season then?
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
Oh look another wonderfully positive post from Goldie.
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Good on him if he wants to stay and fight it out, but if he goes into the campaign as a first choice CB, I'll admit to being concerned.
That said, there might be a natural balance between him on the left and Okore on the right. Rather than the Vlarr/Okore partnership that seems most likely. Sometimes partnerships just click.
He's in Ricardo Scimeca territory for me, a promising young centre half who will probably never fulfill the expectations we had, but will go on to forge a decent career at lower level at some point. No shame in that.
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I must be the only person who thinks Clark is actually pretty damn good. Especially considering its his first season at centreback.
He'll be a real stand-out player for us this season I reckon. He learnt a lot from last year.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
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Because they can sign a pre-contract with absolutely anyone if we do.
I'll be honest, I think you're talking complete cack.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
Because they're likely to go somewhere else?
Do you think Clark and Weimann would have had no contract offers other than us in January or next summer?
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
Seriously?
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
Yes.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
You're a fool PWS if you are asking Goldie to think this one through.
Edit: oh, too late
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
You're a fool PWS if you are asking Goldie to think this one through.
Edit: oh, too late
;)
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
Yes.
So you'd be happy for us to lose potentially £20,000,000+ worth of players for nothing?
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
Yes.
Ok, so this is just one of those crazy, "not-thought-through" things like your conspiracy masons post?
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Bonkers
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Seriously though i didn't know Weimann was in his last year. He has had a good season and deserves a new contract. The rest weren't so no, I don't rate Clark.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
That is a very bizarre viewpoint. By January they would be free to sign a pre-contract with anyone else, so if they have a blinder of a season we could lose them for nothing. Do you think it makes sense to take that gamble?
Yes.
Ok, so this is just one of those crazy, "not-thought-through" things like your conspiracy masons post?
All those conspiracy posts are all 100% true and fact. If you don't choose believe them then don't. As long as i know the truth that's all that matters.
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2xy3u8gV41qc073co1_400.gif)
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As long as i know the truth that's all that matters.
Technically, wouldn't it also be a good thing if the public and authorities knew 'the truth' as well?
If it's just you then it doesn't really make much difference.
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You can't handle the truth, etc, etc.
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Back on topic, Ciaran is a cultured footballer. A cut above for a long time at reserve level and we were all quite excited about his breakthrough. It's been a little bit in fits and starts but he's another player who has suffered at times during the last three years of musical chairs at the club. I think last season will have been the making of him.
Captain on a number of occasions, a few cock-ups sure but also signs that he could be a real leader. Like the original comparison with Scimeca but I think there's more to Ciaran's game and he won't be distracted by his parents owning an Italian down the road. If he's going to be a centre-back at least he's had a good grounding in it now. I expect him and Okore to finish next season as a fine double act at the back. We'll concede sub 50 (which for a Lambert team is impressive) and Clacker will also pop-up with a couple at the other end.
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Happy to see Ciaran signed up. I still think he could do with trying a more defensive midfield role but as a defender he will just get better and better.
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He is worth preserving and new contract but Questions remains about his ability on defensive side. He could look at the like of Paul McGrath and see how they handle the game in defending. Maybe Okore and Baker will make him perform even better.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
That's your opinion. Not one I share.
You said it. If their in the last year of their contracts what's the problem with signing a new one in January or at the end of the season.
Possibly the dumbest post I've ever read on here. No personal offence Goldie.
I did use to think Clark was going to be a cracking player but the longer the season went on the more I worried about him. Whereas I felt the opposite about.
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Good squad filler and back up. Would have been mad if he'd left on a free.
Good move by Lambert.
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i think Clark was poor for quite a few games last season but did stand out in some. You watch most games and he has the knack of being in the right place at teh right time when the opposing team attacked in open play. A clearance, a header etc he does read the game better than i initially gave him credit for. See how he does next season he will have learned that he can't get tight to certain strikers as they will just roll him and be away. There is till a player there he's got one year to keep his Villa career going as first-choice centre-half.
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I must be the only person who thinks Clark is actually pretty damn good. Especially considering its his first season at centreback.
He'll be a real stand-out player for us this season I reckon. He learnt a lot from last year.
No you are not the only one.
I think he is someone who has the potential to be a very,very good player.
He reminds me very much of Barry and he could be just as influential, given time and support.
I think we were very close to ruining the kid last season, and Vlaar coming back when he did enabled Clark to be taken out of the firing line just in time.
But, that said, I reckon he will have learned massively from last year and will be a stronger, better player for it.
Good luck to him, well done on getting a new contract and lets see him really push on next season.
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I must be the only person who thinks Clark is actually pretty damn good. Especially considering its his first season at centreback.
He'll be a real stand-out player for us this season I reckon. He learnt a lot from last year.
No you are not the only one.
I think he is someone who has the potential to be a very,very good player.
He reminds me very much of Barry and he could be just as influential, given time and support.
I think we were very close to ruining the kid last season, and Vlaar coming back when he did enabled Clark to be taken out of the firing line just in time.
But, that said, I reckon he will have learned massively from last year and will be a stronger, better player for it.
Good luck to him, well done on getting a new contract and lets see him really push on next season.
He was one of the ones that SrAlex was very keen to buy before he bought Jones and Smalling.
CC is establishing as a cultured intenational CB.
He needs to be fit and concentrating - he'll be fine if he does this and continues to learn.
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Can't see anything wrong with giving him a new deal, he obviously features in Lambert's plans. Therefore why run the risk of letting his contract run down?
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Pleased for Villa and Clark. You show the right attitude and you get the reward. I think he is a young guy learning the trade, his best years are to come, and im glad he will be here to have them
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Needs some major work on his decision making and for me he's now behind Vlaar and Baker in the pecking order, but in the interim as back-up he's more than capable. Hopefully he'll have learnt a lot from the mistakes of last season and push on.
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As long as i know the truth that's all that matters.
Technically, wouldn't it also be a good thing if the public and authorities knew 'the truth' as well?
If it's just you then it doesn't really make much difference.
Now it's you who isn't thinking things through, obviously they're all in on it as well.
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Sometimes a centre back partnership can click, just like a foward pairing. He struggled when he was with Baker, as both are still quite raw. If he is with someone with pace like Okore,this could bring the best out of him.
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Got say I really don't rate him at all. Dropped far too many blcks last season.
More than happy to be proved wrong - just think he'll be a Ridgewell
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Ciaran Clark has got a great deal of footballing ability but as he has proved last season centre half is not his position.
Defensive midfield however is possible for the future.
Of course we should have given him a new contract.
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I don't think he has the makings of a center half. Good footballer, but not someone who is ever going to be a commanding figure in our defence. Who knows, maybe he will mature and benefit from last season.
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Good move by the club even just from a financial perspective.
Clark has been unfortunate that he hasn't had the opportunity to go on loan. Therefore his mistakes and the normal steep learning curve has been in front of our eyes. Baker and Cahill benefitted from spells at other clubs.
On that basis I think we should wipe the slate clean with Clark and only judge him from here, now he has a year's experience.
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Seems that most people on here think he should be defensive midfield.
Maybe that is Lamberts plan.
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He is a good, young player with only 12 months left on his contract...would you rather we lost him for fuck all next summer?
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I'm undecided also but it's probably worth keeping him for now, he can cover about 3 positions so good back up
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He's had some good games and some poor games, but I think he could be a very good player.
As with Gareth Barry early on in his career, it's finding the best position for him. Defender or midfielder? Personally, I think midfielder, but it could quite easily be defender.
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Like Baker, half the battle for Clarky will be to cut out silly errors. If he does that then he's well on the way. I think he needs to beef up a bit too. He gets bullied too much, which is not what you want to happen to your center half.
Obviously contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but if Clark has an okay season, next summer we could conceivably flog him on for 4-5 mill if Lambert felt it necessary to change things up more.
I would also disagree with the initial poster. I don't think Clark is a midfielder. He doesn't have the mobility, and while he might be reasonable on the ball, he's not good enough in midfield. For a defender he's good. For a mid, not so. If he wasn't so slow I'd have him at fullback.
I think with a more settled side though, a lot of our younger players who struggled from the onslaught, namely CC and NB, will come through it stronger, and hopefully be more comfortable this season. Given his age and experience I felt Vlaar was most guilty at the back last season. We expected far more but he made a lot of clangers too. Kids at the top level for the first time consistently (the rest of our backline basically) you can forgive, it's expected. But Vlaar obviously had his injury problems and when he did play he was far from concrete. I expect him to be far better this season.
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Oh and I'm happy for him to get a new contract too. If Baker gets one, Clark deserves it. Bakers the more solid defender right now, but Clark has more potential.
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I'm a bit meh! about him signing a new contract. I think so far there's been little to suggest he'll make it as a top class CB. I think he's made too many unforced errors and has also frequently been shown to lack the necessary strength, pace and anticipation. Lambert obviously rates him enough to keep him, and there may still be a very decent player in there. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Like Baker, half the battle for Clarky will be to cut out silly errors. If he does that then he's well on the way. I think he needs to beef up a bit too. He gets bullied too much, which is not what you want to happen to your center half.
Obviously contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but if Clark has an okay season, next summer we could conceivably flog him on for 4-5 mill if Lambert felt it necessary to change things up more.
I would also disagree with the initial poster. I don't think Clark is a midfielder. He doesn't have the mobility, and while he might be reasonable on the ball, he's not good enough in midfield. For a defender he's good. For a mid, not so. If he wasn't so slow I'd have him at fullback.
I think with a more settled side though, a lot of our younger players who struggled from the onslaught, namely CC and NB, will come through it stronger, and hopefully be more comfortable this season. Given his age and experience I felt Vlaar was most guilty at the back last season. We expected far more but he made a lot of clangers too. Kids at the top level for the first time consistently (the rest of our backline basically) you can forgive, it's expected. But Vlaar obviously had his injury problems and when he did play he was far from concrete. I expect him to be far better this season.
A few chaps who sit near me at VP reckon that Lowton is not fast enough for a full back.
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Seems that most people on here think he should be defensive midfield.
Maybe that is Lamberts plan.
PL has explicitly stated that this is not the case in a Q and A session with fans just before the start of last season.
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Like Baker, half the battle for Clarky will be to cut out silly errors. If he does that then he's well on the way. I think he needs to beef up a bit too. He gets bullied too much, which is not what you want to happen to your center half.
Obviously contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but if Clark has an okay season, next summer we could conceivably flog him on for 4-5 mill if Lambert felt it necessary to change things up more.
I would also disagree with the initial poster. I don't think Clark is a midfielder. He doesn't have the mobility, and while he might be reasonable on the ball, he's not good enough in midfield. For a defender he's good. For a mid, not so. If he wasn't so slow I'd have him at fullback.
I think with a more settled side though, a lot of our younger players who struggled from the onslaught, namely CC and NB, will come through it stronger, and hopefully be more comfortable this season. Given his age and experience I felt Vlaar was most guilty at the back last season. We expected far more but he made a lot of clangers too. Kids at the top level for the first time consistently (the rest of our backline basically) you can forgive, it's expected. But Vlaar obviously had his injury problems and when he did play he was far from concrete. I expect him to be far better this season.
A few chaps who sit near me at VP reckon that Lowton is not fast enough for a full back.
Put drawing pins on their seats mate, they're talking absolute twaddle. In comparison to Kyle Walker maybe but Lowts gets up and down that flank in more than good time.
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I shall reserve my judgement for a further 12 months. Aslong as he's been doing some work on his concentration on a brain training app it may be a favourable judgement. May ... be.
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Very happy with this news. Not sure why the lad gets so much flak. Especially when Baker doesn't. Weird
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A good player and someone who we have had to rely on over the last few years, probably all bit to soon so this is deserving for all that hard work. Well done.
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Defenders, especially centre-backs, all tend to peak later in their careers - the position is about practiced positioning and that sixth sense you develop through experience, that knack of knowing when something's about to happen and moving to prevent it. It's like firemen always know when a building is about to collapse: they may not think it specifically, but being in those situations has attuned them instinctively to the small creaks in the floorboards, the almost imperceptible wobbliness in the floor etc. And being a defender is rather like that.
Clark showed last season that he can make some exceptional interceptions and get into crucial positions, but that he can still balls up and make terrible decisions. Hopefully, with experience, the former will win out over the latter.
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Like Baker, half the battle for Clarky will be to cut out silly errors. If he does that then he's well on the way. I think he needs to beef up a bit too. He gets bullied too much, which is not what you want to happen to your center half.
Obviously contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but if Clark has an okay season, next summer we could conceivably flog him on for 4-5 mill if Lambert felt it necessary to change things up more.
I would also disagree with the initial poster. I don't think Clark is a midfielder. He doesn't have the mobility, and while he might be reasonable on the ball, he's not good enough in midfield. For a defender he's good. For a mid, not so. If he wasn't so slow I'd have him at fullback.
I think with a more settled side though, a lot of our younger players who struggled from the onslaught, namely CC and NB, will come through it stronger, and hopefully be more comfortable this season. Given his age and experience I felt Vlaar was most guilty at the back last season. We expected far more but he made a lot of clangers too. Kids at the top level for the first time consistently (the rest of our backline basically) you can forgive, it's expected. But Vlaar obviously had his injury problems and when he did play he was far from concrete. I expect him to be far better this season.
A few chaps who sit near me at VP reckon that Lowton is not fast enough for a full back.
Put drawing pins on their seats mate, they're talking absolute twaddle. In comparison to Kyle Walker maybe but Lowts gets up and down that flank in more than good time.
They have a very valid point - despite his many decent qualities Lowton is slow and was skinned for pace quite a few times last season. It's the one reasons I'm not as sold on him as many Villa fans seem to be.
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No. The club continues to dish out new contracts for no reason whatsoever. We were one game off from relegation no one deserves one imo.
How am I going to be an optimist about this?