Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Loxton01 on March 18, 2013, 10:30:26 AM
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Ok so slightly hypothetical at the moment but should we get the required points to stay up I think we have laid massive foundations to kick on next season if we then speculate to accumulate.
Randy has cut the cloth and cant keep cutting it as if we get out of this season and dont improve it wont keep happening!!!
So you come to a real review of the squad who would stay for you and who would go. Where do we need to improve which players have had their chance and need to go.
Here are my thoughts
GK
Guzan has been superb this season. Given I would let go high wage earner and deserves to be allowed to play. We need to get a young hungry GK in who could push Guzan. Shame we didnt get Butland for me.
Defence
Dunne will not play this season and he needs to go as he is never fit. Baker, Vlaar and Clark will be better for a season but need to improve. For me a player like Lescott could really improve the defense. At left back Joe Bennett does not convinvce me defensively. He is good going forward but not defensively. I would get a new left back in. Id keep Lichaj but let Stevens go. For me we have to move forward and be cruel to be kind with some players and I dont want a big squad with players never getting a kick.
Midfield
Our real weakness is the middle of the park. Westwood and Delph have done ok in there but in the formation we play the real superstar we need to buy is the player at the head of the diamond. NZog or bannan are not good enough for that role. Who that player is I dont no but its the one we need. Id keep Delph, Westwood and Sylla to fight it out and maybe bring one more in. Bannan Albrighton Holman and def Ireland can all go. They are not good enough for Aston Villa Football Club if we want to move on. The former three will do a good job in the lower leagues and I wish them good luck the later can just crawl up and rot for me. He is a disgrace. Hopefully Gardner will also return as he looked a good prospect before the injury.
Forwards
Benteke staying is huge we need to convince him of the aspirations we have. Weimann is a must and gabby is doing a decent job whilst NZog for me could play one of the roles. Bent, Bowery and the Fonz can go for me to raise funds for a new top 6 premiership class winger/striker. They are out there we need to show we want them and spend the money.
I have listed Given Free [40k], Dunne Free [40K] Stevens 1m [10k], Bannan 2.5m [15k], Albrighton 2.5m [15k], Holman 1.5m [20K], Ireland 2m [50K], The Fonz 2m [10K], Bent 10m [50K] and Bowery 1m [10K] which for me could raise circa 20-25million and would save 280K a week in wages.
I have suggested we need a new support GK 2m [15K], LB 4m [35K], new CH 6m [50K], two new midfielders 5 and 10m [35K [60K] and a striker 7.5m-10m [60K]. Thats 5 players which if RL threw in 20 million along with the 20 million above would give us 40m and achievable wages which are less than paid on players before.
This would give us a squad of circa 22-24 players with the likes of Johnson Gardner, Burke potentially all to be given a chance.
We have a number of players who are top half of championship bottom half of premiership at the club and for the likes of Bannan, Albrighton, Holman, the Fonz they have had their chance and they will not improve us we cannot keep persisting with them. With the purchase of the six players above with better quality and class we could be top ten next year and kick on from that.
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I'd let go Given, Ireland and Delfouneso. I'd happliy keep the rest. If Dunne can get himself fit, i'd offer him another year.
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I'd be prepared to listen to offers for given, Ireland, Fonz, bannan, dunne, bent , kea,Holman, lichaj , albrighton but i doubt we would get takers for all - the only big money would come for bent but if say we got £12m for him plus the savings on his wage, given, Ireland and dunnes wages too it would give the manager scope to bring in 3 or 4 players who could really strengthen defence and midfield.
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Add Makoun to the list and dont forget we still have Hutton on the books. Probably let KEA go too.
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Add Makoun to the list and dont forget we still have Hutton on the books. Probably let KEA go too. Yep he
I forgot about Hutton. Yep, he can go as well. I'd like to keep Makoun though. He might settle in better now there's a couple of French speaking players in the club. There's a good player in there somewhere as well.
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Let's not discuss this today. Plenty of time for it after the season is over.
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Keep:
Guzan, Lowton, Lichaj, Bennett, Clark, Vlaar, Baker, Westwood, Delph, Gardner, El Ahmadi, Bannan, Albrighton, Sylla, Benteke, Agbonlahor, Weimann
Sell:
Given, Stevens, Hutton, Dunne, Makoun, Ireland, N'Zogbia (I know he's done well in the last few weeks but hasn't convinced me yet, Holman, Bent, Delfoneuso, Bowery
Buy:
Backup GK, LB, CB, DCM, Winger, Backup CF
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I agree with pretty much everything written in the original post. My concern is that Lambert will stick with a lot of the current players if we stay up. That would be a mistake for me, as some of them just aren't at the required level to take the club forward.
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Get rid of Given, Hutton, Dunne, Lichaj, Ireland, Albrighton, bent, Delf
and Petrov retires to move upstairs
Use the wages to sign some experience
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I think now I'd get rid of Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent(as Lambert doesn't want him), Albrighton, Hutton, Lichaj and Delfouneso. Same as Richard's choices actually.
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This morning I did this very same thing.
I had Bent, Ireland, Herd, Dunne and Given all leaving with a saving of £14 million.
I earmarked an attacking right sided player, a box to box player to compete with Delph and a bruiser in the middle to compete with Sylla (KEA and Westwood being the continuity player).
A new centre half and a new left back (Bennett’s future is on the left side of midfield), with a reserve goalkeeper.
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We need another right back as well, Lowton needs competetion and Lichaj isn't up to it.
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How exactly do people suggest we go about getting rid of Given? And Ireland for that matter.
Why would they choose to leave?
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Oh fuck I'd forgotten about Delfouneso....get rid asap, 6 goals in 33 at Blackpool. he's not good enough
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How exactly do people suggest we go about getting rid of Given? And Ireland for that matter.
Why would they choose to leave?
Given chose to leave man city and took a drop in wages to do so, he may want the chance of 1st team football , Ireland would probably be happy to sit and take the money .
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How exactly do people suggest we go about getting rid of Given? And Ireland for that matter.
Why would they choose to leave?
Given chose to leave man city and took a drop in wages to do so
In real terms, he didn't though did he?
We offered him a longer contract to make up for a lower amount each month so he didn't financially lose out by choosing to move to us.
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Lichaj and Dunne are out of contract and don't deserve to have them renewed (Dunne because he's broken, Lichaj because he's not good enough, unfortunately as he seems like a genuinely nice guy).
Hutton needs to go, I pray Mallorca have seen something to encourage them to give us 50p and a toblerone for him.
If Ireland, Bent and Given can generate some interest then we should get rid, none of them are contributing enough given their wages.
If Makoun still hasn't learned any English we should take what we can get.
That's potentially 7 off the books, which is enough for now as far as I'm concerned, everyone left has shown glimpses of being good enough and/or deserves the chance at another season to see if they can make the step up (KEA, Holman, Bennett, Bowery all sit here).
Then we need:
Backup keeper (unless we trust Seigrist to step-up, is he ready?)
Right-back as competition for Lowton
Right-sided centre back
Left winger
Right winger
Attacking midfielder
That gives us the depth we need in the squad, but there is still question marks in left back and defensive midfield, but do we give:
LB: Bennett and Stevens another Summer (both were injured this summer so haven't had the chance to build up the level of fitness required) and look at things near the end of the window?
DM: Sylla, Delph, KEA, Bannan(although I think he should be playing further forward) and Westwood the chance to show they can form an effective group of options there?
I'm very tempted to say yes to both. I know a lot of people think Bennett isn't good enough but I think he's shown glimpses of being capable of stepping up, just needs to get his awareness up and get his fitness right. I think Delph, Westwood and Sylla have all shown a lot of potential in recent weeks (which coincides with results taking us to 5th in the form table) and KEA looked like a fantastic prospect in the summer but just hasn't adjusted to the pace of the game.
We need to be careful not to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' this summer as this season will have had a big effect on a lot of these younger players and we need to see how they react in the summer before making big decisions on them.
I've listed 7 players above who have between them done virtually nothing for the team this year (except Lichaj who I really wanted to do well but I just don't think the quality is there) they're the ones to get rid of first. The idea of getting rid of more terrifies me as we really need to start to get a bit of consistency in the squad.
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Leave it to the end of the season you might see a different picture.
Weimann hasnt signed a new contract ,unless you havent noticed, and reputedly is not happy with the terms offered him. He would be stupid not to keep his options open. Benteke will be much sort after and dont rule out any of the moneybags clubs watching Guzan's form with interest as the season concludes.
Both Darren Bent and Barry Bannan and Shay Given might well be needed next season. Dont write them off just because we have won two games on the trot.
Lets wait and see what happens in the next couple of months.
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its a bit of a no brainer to say lets get shut of Given, Hutton, Dunne, Albrighton, Ireland, Macoun, Bent and Delfonso
as they may well as not be here anyway,
apart from the crippling wages we are paying them, they are about as collectively as effective as i am on the pitch at the moment
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How exactly do people suggest we go about getting rid of Given? And Ireland for that matter.
Why would they choose to leave?
I would offer Ireland a pay off just to get him out of the club or even offer to contribute to his wages at another club.
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Given, Ireland, Dunne, Hutton, Bent and a couple of fringe players, who won't be figuring at all, would release a huge amount from the wage bill and also bring in around £15m-£20m
I would probably keep it at that, though.
Release to many and we're back to square one, with players needing to settle in.
One 'Big' signing and 2 or 3 quality 'Up and coming' signings would see us to mid table, ready to kick on again.
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I think it's kind of obvious who Lambert wants to stay and who he wants to push out. Basically, if you're fit and you've got in the team or near the bench in 2013, you're in. If you haven't, never darken our doors again.
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For me....keep GK Guzan
Defenders...Baker, Vlaar, Lowton, Bennett,
Midfield.....Delph, Gardener, Westwood, Sylla
Attack....Benteke, Weimann, Charlie, Bowery
Let go........Given, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, KEA, Holman, Bannan, Ireland, Bent.
Not bothered if they go....Stevens, Gabby, Clark, Delf, Albrighton.
Imperative we get a sbig strong Centre Half, and central midfielder, a more creative wide player, and a more experience RB and LB.
The guy from Wigan, the LB, who is on a free, would do for one.Apart from that, look abroad.Sissokho did look very impressive yday.Sinclair/Ince might be worth a thought as well.Distin on a 2 year contract?, maybe Douglas, on a free this summer~?
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I'm still mystified as to why so many people want Gabby to be dumped. Even if he wasn't a Villa fan, don't others think he's a decent option to have in the squad?
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If he3's on £60k a week, as reported co, then i don't think his performances/abilities are worth that.
Benteke and Weimann deserve increased contracts, Baker and Westwood look like they could be future stars, Delph is starting to show he has something.Charlie for me offers something we don't have, Vlaar is just steady.
The others i suggested, for me, either don't add any quality to the squad, or are'nt worth what they are paid.We have a good youth system, and alongside 2 or 3 free experienced freebies, and 2 or 3 quality young players on good wages, we will not be far off.
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For me....keep GK Guzan
Defenders...Baker, Vlaar, Lowton, Bennett,
Midfield.....Delph, Gardener, Westwood, Sylla
Attack....Benteke, Weimann, Charlie, Bowery
Let go........Given, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, KEA, Holman, Bannan, Ireland, Bent.
Not bothered if they go....Stevens, Gabby, Clark, Delf, Albrighton.
Imperative we get a sbig strong Centre Half, and central midfielder, a more creative wide player, and a more experience RB and LB.
The guy from Wigan, the LB, who is on a free, would do for one.Apart from that, look abroad.Sissokho did look very impressive yday.Sinclair/Ince might be worth a thought as well.Distin on a 2 year contract?, maybe Douglas, on a free this summer~?
The problem I have with this is that you're talking about having a squad of 13 as the base and buying from there. To me that's far too many changes in one summer. Even the 7 I've suggested worries me but at least it's all players who aren't around the squad (other than Given). To gut the squad and buying in half a new squad is just going to cause another year of transition as they start to get used to each other again. I'd rather keep a core of 18-20 and fill up around them, and then do the same in 2014 if some of the guys are still not providing enough.
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I agree. We've had far too much movement over the past three summers and I fear Benteke will need to be immediately replaced, and Bent will probably be moved on to pastures new. So I'd rather keep who we have if we can, not including players such as Warnock, Hutton and Fonz who have clearly been noted as surplus to requirements.
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Given, Ireland, Dunne, Hutton, Bent and a couple of fringe players, who won't be figuring at all, would release a huge amount from the wage bill and also bring in around £15m-£20m
I would probably keep it at that, though.
Release to many and we're back to square one, with players needing to settle in.
One 'Big' signing and 2 or 3 quality 'Up and coming' signings would see us to mid table, ready to kick on again.
Football never works like that, though.
You get bids on the players you want to keep, and generally find it hard to move on players who are surplus to requirements -unless it's at a big loss.
Bent might attract a decent bid from Turkey or some such -and by decent, I'd say £6-8 million, seeing as he is no longer an England international and isn't even first choice for a struggling club. With the deals that Hutton, Ireland and Given are on, I think we'd find it hard to get any sort of fee for them at all -and will most likely have to pay a decent percentage of their wage to move them on.
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Warnock left in jan for leeds
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I think Lambert may have some tough decisions on his own investments in KEA & Bennett. He's done his best to stand by them, but the fact that he's gone out & bought Sylla to do KEA's job is evidence itself.
If we can add the meat to the pretty beefy sandwich at each end of the pitch, we'll do better next year.
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Am I the only one who reads the thread title is a Geordie accent?
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Bennett is very young though,playing in the prem for the first time. If he can beef up a little,and train hard on his defending side, he may be a future regular.
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Bennett is decent enough to be in and around the squad, but not -at this point- good enough to be a guaranteed first team player.
It's probably best for all parties if KEA returns to Holland this summer.
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Am I the only one who reads the thread title is a Geordie accent?
Ant and Dec. Saturday night game with celebrities and prizes. Exactly.
A bit like...oh.
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I was thinking more of the bloke from Big Brother. Not that I watch it. Okay I did years ago but i'm better now.
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If they did Reality Premiership then Arry would be a media star but get voted out early by envious housemates. PaulL might win through on the gritty honest just-like-us ticket. He'd be really good on the fags by the garden bench conversations and keeping it real.
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I don't see the point in dumping many of the younger mob. If we can find homes for Ireland, Dunne, Given, Bent and possibly Albi (who might benefit from a season on loan elsewhere), we've created enough room for improvement/investment without upsetting what is becoming a fairly solid group of youngsters. Add some steel and experience by cutting out the deadwood and we'll have a decent mid table squad next season, a platform from which to build. Don't forget that the new tv deal starts next year which might convince Uncle Randy to let the moths see the daylight.
Shit I forgot Hutton!! An easy mistake, he is immensely forgettable.
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I'm still mystified as to why so many people want Gabby to be dumped. Even if he wasn't a Villa fan, don't others think he's a decent option to have in the squad?
A year ago I would have dumped Gabby but Lambert knows how to play him. Got to keep.
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Would we need a back up GK? I know Siegrest is very highly rated and Marshall has experience if necessary
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I don't see the point in dumping many of the younger mob. If we can find homes for Ireland, Dunne, Given, Bent and possibly Albi (who might benefit from a season on loan elsewhere), we've created enough room for improvement/investment without upsetting what is becoming a fairly solid group of youngsters. Add some steel and experience by cutting out the deadwood and we'll have a decent mid table squad next season, a platform from which to build. Don't forget that the new tv deal starts next year which might convince Uncle Randy to let the moths see the daylight.
Shit I forgot Hutton!! An easy mistake, he is immensely forgettable.
That's pretty much my thoughts. Get rid of the older players who aren't contributingbut the guys who are 23 and downwards and not on massive wages lets give another year and see if we can get some forward momentum to see them in a side on the up rather than in relegation battles. They've had 2-3 years where they've had to step in because the seniors were failing and have been given a good kicking by the experience and there are definite green shoots showing that they're getting to grips with being the core of a premier league team now, I thik we need to give it another year to see what comes from those. If it turns out to be weeds then move them on the next summer, but I think 3-4 of them will step up well next season, much like Weimann has this year.
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I was thinking more of the bloke from Big Brother. Not that I watch it. Okay I did years ago but i'm better now.
Richard Dunne in in the KITCHEN, he's heading for the FRIDGE. Steve Ireland is in the DIARY ROOM chewing on a BLANKET.
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N'Zogbia has done well in the role recently, but I would love to see a real quality attacking midfielder come in over the summer. If we continue with the 4-2-3-1 formation, then I think in Westwood, Sylla, Delph, El Ahmadi and possibly Gardner, we have enough options for the two defensive midfielder positions. What we really need is a player who can link the play up and seeing as our follically challenged Irishman doesn't seem interested, I would like to see us sign a real flair player like Coutinho. Add a CB, LB and wide attacking option and we would be in decent shape.
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Kendrick has just tweeted something about Luc Nilis getting a job with the Belgian FA as forwards coach - that has to count in our favour when trying to keep CB going into a world cup year - if we stay up of course.
......and could we recruit Lukaka to play with him just to annoy the stripeyfilths ?!!
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I'd like to keep Makoun though. He might settle in better now there's a couple of French speaking players in the club. There's a good player in there somewhere as well.
There might be a good player in there somewhere but it looks like in his attitude he makes Stephen Ireland look dedicated and loyal.
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Would we need a back up GK? I know Siegrest is very highly rated and Marshall has experience if necessary
It's time to see if Siegrest can step up I would have thought.
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Would we need a back up GK? I know Siegrest is very highly rated and Marshall has experience if necessary
It's time to see if Siegrest can step up I would have thought.
Brilliant! In a season where most fans have been cursing the manager, owner and the Gods themselves for having to rely on young untested players the answer to replacing the over paid Given?
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Would we need a back up GK? I know Siegrest is very highly rated and Marshall has experience if necessary
It's time to see if Siegrest can step up I would have thought.
Brilliant! In a season where most fans have been cursing the manager, owner and the Gods themselves for having to rely on young untested players the answer to replacing the over paid Given?
I don't know, that's the point, but how are we going to find out if we don't give him a chance? And as has been stated we also have Marshal.
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Would we need a back up GK? I know Siegrest is very highly rated and Marshall has experience if necessary
It's time to see if Siegrest can step up I would have thought.
Brilliant! In a season where most fans have been cursing the manager, owner and the Gods themselves for having to rely on young untested players the answer to replacing the over paid Given?
I don't know, that's the point, but how are we going to find out if we don't give him a chance? And as has been stated we also have Marshal.
Sorry mate, not particularly disagreeing with you. I'm all for giving youth a chance, look at my posts for this season and never have I savaged our team for their lack of experience. If Guzan had had more of a chance under Friedel we might not have spunked so much cash on Given. It was just the irony of the statement that made me chuckle.
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We need to get Siegrest out on loan, similarly to what citeh did with hart. It's the only way to be anywhere near sure. I'm assuming we've a line of goalkeepers who would all then step up a level/age group. Could, COULD, then get us to having two relatively young, cheap and valuable keepers vying for the number one shirt. Means hanging on to Given for now. If he should not want to stay, though, I don't think we should stand in his way should an all-round acceptable offer come in. Then that'd be something to address regarding back-up. Maybe there'd be somebody to get from beyond our shores at a reasonable price.
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I think Ireland, Given, Bent, Dunne, Petrov, Hutton and Albrighton should all be off the wage bill come the end of the summer. Adding to Warnock who has gone already.
That gives us a huge scope for getting 4 quality players into this squad, a centre half, a left back, a destroyer in the centre of the pitch and a tricky forward player. All in, we would be much stronger. I would keep Dawkins too.
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We need two new centre halfs imo, Dunne will leave and Baker and Vlaar are made of glass.
I'd let go of Bannan aswell to the usual lists, just don't think he's good enough.
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You are right, but the 2nd centre half would be fine to be a cheap big young championship one, or even a free like Williamson from Newcastle may be.
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I think Ireland, Given, Bent, Dunne, Petrov, Hutton and Albrighton should all be off the wage bill come the end of the summer. Adding to Warnock who has gone already.
That gives us a huge scope for getting 4 quality players into this squad, a centre half, a left back, a destroyer in the centre of the pitch and a tricky forward player. All in, we would be much stronger. I would keep Dawkins too.
Do we need a new kit man?
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I was thinking of starting a similar thread, but thought it may be a bit too soon. However, now that someone else has started it, here goes:-
The key for me is buying as few players as possible. That way, we can concentrate the funds we have available on experience and/or quality, which, when mixed with our better young players, should make for a pretty useful side.
If we continue with the present 4-3-3 as our primary formation, and look to have two players for every position, plus 3 keepers, then you get the following:-
Keepers - Guzan as no 1, obviously. Given goes as he's too expensive when not playing, although this may need to be on loan. That leaves Seigrist and Marshall, to I'd say also let Marshall go and bring in someone in their mid 20s from the lower leagues as the experienced back up, which I trust Lambert to do.
Defence - CB is the easiest to decide upon as Dunne gets released and we bring an experienced player in, which leaves him and Vlaar as 1st choices and Baker and Clark the back up. The FBs are more difficult, as both Lowton and Bennett have shown potential, but the back up does look poor. Do we bring it experience, thereby pushing them be the reserves, or do we persevere and get cheaper back up upgrades? Hutton is a goner.
Midfield - Sylla, Westwood and Delph would be my three right now. In order to improve, we get a strong, quality and experienced CM (basically an actual replacement for Petrov) and let them fight it out for the other two places. KEA stays and so does Bannan, as that means we can concentrate funds here on one player, thereby uping the quality we bring in. Ireland can go to anyone mental enough to pay him to not be bothered if he plays football or not.
I'm not sure whether we class Holman as a midfielder or forward? However, I'd keep him as long as he's OK with not being a regular.
Attack - Weimann, Gabby and Benteke are a good and versatile trio, as I feel Both the wide players could play centrally if we needed them to. Happy for N'Zogbia to stay, given recent form, and Bowery should be given more time and fits in as the 6th option for those 3 places. So that leaves 1 slot, where we need a good wide attacker, who could also play behind the striker, as Charlie does. I can see that being an overseas signing and let's hope Lambert can pull off another Benteke like masterstroke! Bent will go and not sure what will happen with Dawkins, although right now I'd say he's hasn't made enopugh impact to warrant a permanent deal.
So, that would leave three major signings - CB, CM and forward, with a queation mark over the FB spots and some wheeling-dealing to be done with the keepers. Max 5 players and minimum of 3. If we have similar funds to last summer, then along with the incoming fees and wages saved, we should be able to look at players in the £5-£10m bracket.
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I was thinking of starting a similar thread, but thought it may be a bit too soon. However, now that someone else has started it, here goes:-
The key for me is buying as few players as possible. That way, we can concentrate the funds we have available on experience and/or quality, which, when mixed with our better young players, should make for a pretty useful side.
If we continue with the present 4-3-3 as our primary formation, and look to have two players for every position, plus 3 keepers, then you get the following:-
Keepers - Guzan as no 1, obviously. Given goes as he's too expensive when not playing, although this may need to be on loan. That leaves Seigrist and Marshall, to I'd say also let Marshall go and bring in someone in their mid 20s from the lower leagues as the experienced back up, which I trust Lambert to do.
Defence - CB is the easiest to decide upon as Dunne gets released and we bring an experienced player in, which leaves him and Vlaar as 1st choices and Baker and Clark the back up. The FBs are more difficult, as both Lowton and Bennett have shown potential, but the back up does look poor. Do we bring it experience, thereby pushing them be the reserves, or do we persevere and get cheaper back up upgrades? Hutton is a goner.
Midfield - Sylla, Westwood and Delph would be my three right now. In order to improve, we get a strong, quality and experienced CM (basically an actual replacement for Petrov) and let them fight it out for the other two places. KEA stays and so does Bannan, as that means we can concentrate funds here on one player, thereby uping the quality we bring in. Ireland can go to anyone mental enough to pay him to not be bothered if he plays football or not.
I'm not sure whether we class Holman as a midfielder or forward? However, I'd keep him as long as he's OK with not being a regular.
Attack - Weimann, Gabby and Benteke are a good and versatile trio, as I feel Both the wide players could play centrally if we needed them to. Happy for N'Zogbia to stay, given recent form, and Bowery should be given more time and fits in as the 6th option for those 3 places. So that leaves 1 slot, where we need a good wide attacker, who could also play behind the striker, as Charlie does. I can see that being an overseas signing and let's hope Lambert can pull off another Benteke like masterstroke! Bent will go and not sure what will happen with Dawkins, although right now I'd say he's hasn't made enopugh impact to warrant a permanent deal.
So, that would leave three major signings - CB, CM and forward, with a queation mark over the FB spots and some wheeling-dealing to be done with the keepers. Max 5 players and minimum of 3. If we have similar funds to last summer, then along with the incoming fees and wages saved, we should be able to look at players in the £5-£10m bracket.
Sounds fair. You haven't mentioned Albrighton or the Fonz though. Leavers or stayers?
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Although ireland's wages are big the amount we would have to pay if we didn't opay him off would be bigger. he would be entitled to win bonuses, appearance bonuses, goal bonuses etc. So, effectively we'd be saving by just ripping up his contract. if we can get someone else to take it over then great.
But, if not, kick him out.
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Leavers, for me.
The Fonz isn't good enough, IMO, and Albrighton is a straight winger in a 4-4-2, so no place for him with the way we play under Lambert.
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I don't want to start a Summer Transfers Rumours Thread, as it seems a little like tempting fate, when our position in the League is far from guaranteed. In fact this thread goes fairly close as well. But I did just read the following rumours on F365 and thought this would be the best place to post:
SINCLAIR IN, WEIMANN OUT
That's Scott Sinclair, who is apparently a summer target for Aston Villa - if they stay in the Premier League - after his move to Manchester City somehow failed to work out. Who would ever have predicted that he would fail to establish himself at the Premier League champions and would play only a handful of games. Everton are also interested in Sinclair.
Unfortunately leaving Villa may be Andreas Weimann, whose talks about a new deal with Aston Villa have stalled, according to the Daily Mail. Norwich are said to be interested, but we have to say that we think he could do better.
I think Sinclair would be a great buy, but you would have to imagine he is on big money at City. Maybe a season long loan.
Surely we can offer a Weimann a contract good enough to fend off interest from the likes of Norwich. But if someone bigger shows genuine interest, he might be off.
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no to Sinclair . Sign up Andi now !!!
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no to Sinclair . Sign up Andi now !!!
I'd happily take Sinclair, but not if it meant losing Weimann.
But there's probably nothing in either story. I fully expect Weimann to sign a new and improved contract just as soon as we know what division we'll be in next year.
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a little birdie told me that Fergie wants Guzan. I hope not.
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I'm a bit surprised the OP thinks we'll be offering any new signings 50k or 60k a week.
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Yep, unless there's stupid money offered (which Villa don't do at the moment), there's no reason for Weimann to commit to Villa until safety is certain.
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I don't want to start a Summer Transfers Rumours Thread, as it seems a little like tempting fate, when our position in the League is far from guaranteed. In fact this thread goes fairly close as well. But I did just read the following rumours on F365 and thought this would be the best place to post:
SINCLAIR IN, WEIMANN OUT
That's Scott Sinclair, who is apparently a summer target for Aston Villa - if they stay in the Premier League - after his move to Manchester City somehow failed to work out. Who would ever have predicted that he would fail to establish himself at the Premier League champions and would play only a handful of games. Everton are also interested in Sinclair.
Unfortunately leaving Villa may be Andreas Weimann, whose talks about a new deal with Aston Villa have stalled, according to the Daily Mail. Norwich are said to be interested, but we have to say that we think he could do better.
I think Sinclair would be a great buy, but you would have to imagine he is on big money at City. Maybe a season long loan.
Surely we can offer a Weimann a contract good enough to fend off interest from the likes of Norwich. But if someone bigger shows genuine interest, he might be off.
Seems like lazy journalism, this.
I notice that Charles is on a few lists above as a 'stayer'. I'd offload him, partly 'cos he's been so flaky, and parlty 'cos he's probably on big wages.
The close-season should be about pulling together as much of our resources as possible to buy some genuine defensive and CMF talent. Target the high earners and either sell them or get them out on loan (even saving £10k a week each on Given and Ireland's wages has to be worth doing). Offload the 'not-quite-good-enoughs' and pool the resulting wages for better individuals.
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a little birdie told me that Fergie wants Guzan. I hope not.
That really wouldn't surprise me, he's certainly good enough and still young enough to improve. Whether he'd go straight in the team depends if De Gea goes back to Spain and I can't see anybody coughing up anything near the £18.9m Fergiescum paid for him.
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I notice that Charles is on a few lists above as a 'stayer'. I'd offload him, partly 'cos he's been so flaky, and parlty 'cos he's probably on big wages.
The close-season should be about pulling together as much of our resources as possible to buy some genuine defensive and CMF talent. Target the high earners and either sell them or get them out on loan (even saving £10k a week each on Given and Ireland's wages has to be worth doing). Offload the 'not-quite-good-enoughs' and pool the resulting wages for better individuals.
Although he was on my 'stay list', I do agree on N'Zogbia. If the right offer comes in I'd take it as you just can't be confident his recent form will continue.
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I wouldn't mind Zog staying, at the same time I wouldn't be gutted if he left.
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De Gea has stepped up enough for Fergie not to look elsewhere.
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I wouldn't mind Zog staying, at the same time I wouldn't be gutted if he left.
If him going meant that we could bring in a real quality attacking midfielder or wide attacker then I wouldn't be too bothered about him leaving.
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Begovic will be Old Trafford bound this summer. That's why Stoke signed Butland.
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I think Guzan, Weimann and Benteke will be under an immense amount of scouting right now. Arsenal could do a lot worse than banging 35 million in for the 3 of them. Which we should reject hands down of course, but they are on the rise. The key for Villa is adding a Sinclair, a Lescott, a midfielder, a full back etc to the mix that can be on their level that make them want to stay.
Even with the 12 months on his deal, I would expect 8-10 million for Weimann, over 25 for Benteke and 10 for Guzan. All 3 are exceptional, and all 3 should be fought to be kept.
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All three of then should be with us next year. With Benteke and Guzan early in their contracts we'd be safe enough expecting them for at least a further year. Weimann should be offered a better deal and I am sure would sign it in the knowledge that he needs regular first team football more than money.
It would certainly be with talking to Guzan and Benteke about new deals. If it all came off that would soak up the savings from the out of contract players. Which shouldn't be a problem.
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I'd offer all 3 new deals in the summer when we stay up. And add in a shit load of bonus clauses as well.
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If we can go into next season with all three - which we should do - the addition of two fullbacks capable of challenging Lowton and Bennett off the team sheet, a centre half of reasonable experience and proven quality together with a midfielder of similar quality, say, to Coutinho would be excellent. We could really take off next year if the summer dealings go well.
We still have a real problem with the number of players we have who do not make enough contribution or none at all.
We should look to sell as many of Given, Hutton, Stevens, Ireland, Holman, Makoun, Albrighton, Delfouneso, NZogbia and Bent as can be found buyers for as well as say goodbye to Lichaj and Dunne at the end of their contracts.
It's a bit of a shame with Albrighton, Delfuoneso and Lichaj, but they'd be wasting their time staying here.
I'd even offer Ireland 75% of the remaining year of his contract just to fuck off into the blue yonder.
Marshall is also at the end of his contract, but assuming we could sell Given, I'd offer him a new one as long as he's prepared to be 2nd or 3rd choice for horseshit.
On top of the 4 players we definitely need, we ought to be in for more Lowton/Westwood type signings to provide options in other outfield positions, depending on how many players we ship out and who.
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If we can go into next season with all three - which we should do - the addition of two fullbacks capable of challenging Lowton and Bennett off the team sheet, a centre half of reasonable experience and proven quality together with a midfielder of similar quality, say, to Coutinho would be excellent. We could really take off next year if the summer dealings go well.
We still have a real problem with the number of players we have who do not make enough contribution or none at all.
We should look to sell as many of Given, Hutton, Stevens, Ireland, Holman, Makoun, Albrighton, Delfouneso, NZogbia and Bent as can be found buyers for as well as say goodbye to Lichaj and Dunne at the end of their contracts.
It's a bit of a shame with Albrighton, Delfuoneso and Lichaj, but they'd be wasting their time staying here.
I'd even offer Ireland 75% of the remaining year of his contract just to fuck off into the blue yonder.
Marshall is also at the end of his contract, but assuming we could sell Given, I'd offer him a new one as long as he's prepared to be 2nd or 3rd choice for horseshit.
On top of the 4 players we definitely need, we ought to be in for more Lowton/Westwood type signings to provide options in other outfield positions, depending on how many players we ship out and who.
I'd like to see Holman given another year and, if possible, makoun back for a season. Apart from that, I agree with your clear out...assuming brad, weimann and benteke all stay.
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If we'd have been challenging the top four this season we'd have seen countless stories linking Guzan and Benteke with our rivals (spurs et al). It's only because we're no threat that this hasn't happened in earnest. Doesn't mean it won't happen though. I'd be amazed and ecstatic if both were still at the club at the start of next season.
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I think all three of Andi, Benteke and Guzan will be here, the later two being so early into their contracts will strengthen our hands.
Hopefully we use the money wisely and really invest in the spine of the squad. I don’t expect us to sign him, but if we got somebody of Sinclair’s ilk to add a bit of creativity, then our attack really is top six material.
Then it is a question of doing something about the defence. Bennett has a future at the Villa, but for me it is as a left midfielder. He’s pretty quick, can cross the ball, can actually beat a man, but he is too lightweight and loose in his positioning to be a full back.
A centre half is a must too and then we need two players in that midfield.
There are a number who can go, and hopefully we will be able to off load them, but for me we would not miss; Bent, Given, Ireland, Licjah, Stevens, Herd, Holman or Albrighton.
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Bennett has a future at the Villa, but for me it is as a left midfielder. He’s pretty quick, can cross the ball, can actually beat a man, but he is too lightweight and loose in his positioning to be a full back.
That's pretty much what most people were saying about Ashley Cole at the start of his career.
We need to persevere with Bennett at LB.
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I'd like to see Holman given another year and, if possible, makoun back for a season. Apart from that, I agree with your clear out...assuming brad, weimann and benteke all stay.
I liked Makoun and it's a real shame he never really got going with us. I assume the issues that stopped him getting a work permit last year would still be a problem.
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Bennett has a future at the Villa, but for me it is as a left midfielder. He’s pretty quick, can cross the ball, can actually beat a man, but he is too lightweight and loose in his positioning to be a full back.
That's pretty much what most people were sayign about Ashley Cole at the start of his career.
We need to persevere with Bennett at LB.
I take comfort from the fact that Kenny Swain looked a real liability at rb after Ron Saunders first moved him there from the wing. That turned out ok.
I'd still like to see another LB signed as a genuine first choice contender rather than 'backup', a concept I've never really understood.
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I'd like to see Holman given another year and, if possible, makoun back for a season. Apart from that, I agree with your clear out...assuming brad, weimann and benteke all stay.
I liked Makoun and it's a real shame he never really got going with us. I assume the issues that stopped him getting a work permit last year would still be a problem.
The work permit rules should be altered for football. If a club is prepared to invest four million pounds and 30k p/w on an individual he surely should have the right to work here.
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I'd like to see Holman given another year and, if possible, makoun back for a season. Apart from that, I agree with your clear out...assuming brad, weimann and benteke all stay.
I liked Makoun and it's a real shame he never really got going with us. I assume the issues that stopped him getting a work permit last year would still be a problem.
The work permit rules should be altered for football. If a club is prepared to invest four million pounds and 30k p/w on an individual he surely should have the right to work here.
You'd think that would class as some form of sponsorship! I'd like to see makoun work with lambert, I also think having our own French trio would help him settle and improve his English.
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I'd like to see Holman given another year and, if possible, makoun back for a season. Apart from that, I agree with your clear out...assuming brad, weimann and benteke all stay.
I liked Makoun and it's a real shame he never really got going with us. I assume the issues that stopped him getting a work permit last year would still be a problem.
The work permit rules should be altered for football. If a club is prepared to invest four million pounds and 30k p/w on an individual he surely should have the right to work here.
The rules on 'must be better than locally available' seem fair enough, especially as with football there is some kind of benchmark - international caps.
The 'command of English' one that did for Makoun I'd never heard of.
Which raises an interesting point. If Scotland gets independence will it still be part of the EU? If not Paul Lambert may well have to be shipped back north of the border.
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Go:
Given - too good, really, to be sitting on the bench at this stage of his career, too expensive not to play every week
Dunne - injury problems, contract up, take the change to clear his wages
Hutton - no future here, encourage a permanent move; talk of full-time switch to Mallorca
Ireland - three seasons in, just not done enough. Get what we can back on him.
Herd - just don't think he's good enough in any position; tough kid and tries hard but we need better
Delfouneso - shame, but time to let him go
Makoun - just get it done, transfer away
Bent - clearly doesn't fit in, sell him while we may still bring in £10m.
Would be tempted to consider the futures too of Lichaj, Stevens and Albrighton, but also happy to keep them as squad players. Thinking about it again, there might be a case for keeping Herd and selling Lichaj as he's perhaps more versatile and a better RB (given the chance)
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Sign Weimann up.
He completely embodies the positivity I feel about Villa at the moment despite the mostly terrible season we've endured.
Am glad that most fans are in agreement that we need to keep building with a couple of quality additions but also give most inexperienced/young players more time to prove themselves as this season (should we survive) will inevitably make them stronger.
Midfield has started to look better, defence has to be a huge priority.
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Manyoo fans were complaining about Evra in his first six months/season. He turned it around. I think Bennett has shown more desire/skill/pace in that position than anyone for four years for us.
Weimann kept us up last season too. That last minute goal against Fulham
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Bennett has a future at the Villa, but for me it is as a left midfielder. He’s pretty quick, can cross the ball, can actually beat a man, but he is too lightweight and loose in his positioning to be a full back.
That's pretty much what most people were saying about Ashley Cole at the start of his career.
We need to persevere with Bennett at LB.
Ashley Cole was well into double figures of England caps, and had won the English league and cup double by the time he was Bennett's age. I agree that Bennett shouldn't be ruled out from a full back spot, and I don't blame him completely for the first goal on Saturday, but do I think that this is an area that we need to improve. There might be oppositions against which, and systems in which he can play as a full back, and others where he would be better further forward.
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Bennett has a future at the Villa, but for me it is as a left midfielder. He’s pretty quick, can cross the ball, can actually beat a man, but he is too lightweight and loose in his positioning to be a full back.
That's pretty much what most people were saying about Ashley Cole at the start of his career.
We need to persevere with Bennett at LB.
Ashley Cole was well into double figures of England caps, and had won the English league and cup double by the time he was Bennett's age. I agree that Bennett shouldn't be ruled out from a full back spot, and I don't blame him completely for the first goal on Saturday, but do I think that this is an area that we need to improve. There might be oppositions against which, and systems in which he can play as a full back, and others where he would be better further forward.
It's unfair to compare them like that when you consider Cole emerged into a very good Arsenal team and Bennet was Middlesborough and then recruited into a struggling Villa side. And if he turns out half as good I'll be quite happy!
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I'm not sure this is the correct thread, but I do think that we are one of the clubs whose current recruitment policy most closely follows moneyball principles.
If you think about it, most of the players Lambert brought in are in their early twenties, rather than teenagers. It seems that we don't have the funds to pick up the players who demonstrate a precocious talent at a young age, as these are invariably recruited by the top six teams - I'm thinking about people like Wilfred Zaha, Nick Powell, or Phil Jones. In fact, I'm not sure we can afford to take the risk on them, should they not develop into top players.
As anyone who has read the book will recall, the Oakland Athletics focus on college rather than high school aged baseball players, as there was less competition for them, and it they could more reliably judge their proposects. There is of course also the phenomenon of late developers in all sports (with the possible exception of rythmic gymnastics).
Liverpool, despite the background of their owners, seemed to follow an anti-moneyball principles, as they went for players everyone was already aware of. They were also obviously so determined to get specific players that they overpaid to do the deals. In the book, the Oakland Athletics would always have a range of options, and wouldn't be held to ransom.
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Manyoo fans were complaining about Evra in his first six months/season. He turned it around. I think Bennett has shown more desire/skill/pace in that position than anyone for four years for us.
Weimann kept us up last season too. That last minute goal against Fulham
If he has pace I've yet to see it. If there's one thing wrong with our two full backs it's the complete lack of pace. . It might explain the amount of catching that Guzan has to make as a result of the crosses coming in. That said, I'd still hang on to Bennett as his overall game is good and can get better.
I also think Herd can do a job when called upon too. Certain games need his kind of strength so I'd keep him as well.
Be gone with you.....
Given
Dunne
Hutton
Ireland
Delfouneso
Makoun
Bent
Albrighton
and that kid from Spurs/MLS
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I think Bennet lacks a good tackle, and misreads the attacking winger a little too often for my liking, but lack of pace is not something he has an issue with as far as I see. Even the misplaced pass the other day, he had nearly caught up with jenas to get the block in.
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Bren'd, im happy with your "Be gone with you" list, same as Id pick
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A decent view on things-
By James Nursey | 21/03/13
What a game Villa's 3-2 win over QPR was.
It was so vital in the short-term and also offered much optimism for the future - assuming Paul Lambert's Villa side now stay up.
OK, I accept Villa were highly fortunate to still be in the game against Rangers at half-time.
But Lambert's faith in keeper Brad Guzan has been totally vindicated as he continues to mature into one of the top-flight's best shot stoppers.
While several of the club's new young signings are developing very promisingly in the tense pressure cooker of a relegation battle, which is no mean feat.
Last season trying to call Villa's player of the season was something of a joke as there were so few contenders.
The fact Stephen Ireland won it after scoring just once and being in and out of the side said it all.
But this season trying to separate Guzan, 28, Christian Benteke, 22, and 21-year-old Andreas Weimann is a really tough vote.
I will reserve judgement on that until nearer the end of the campaign.
The trio were all on fire against Rangers.
I really like Weimann's attitude as he is so passionate, enthusiastic and runs so much - allied to plenty of skill.
Villa have dished out numerous ridiculously generous contracts in the last five years.
But (in the context of the mad world of football) if anyone deserves at least £40,000-a-week of Villa's money this summer it has to be the aforementioned trio.
There are plenty of other decent prospects in the Villa side too whose recent progress engenders real hope for the future.
Right-back Matt Lowton, 23, is becoming quite a dependable fixture in the side.
Ashley Westwood, 22, helped run the midfield in the second half against Rangers with another accomplished, mature display.
Ciaran Clark, 23, is a classy left-footed centre-back who has out-shone Dutch international stopper Ron Vlaar in my opinion this season.
I am also a huge fan of Nathan Baker, 21, but he went off injured against QPR so we didn't see too much of him.
Even Barry Bannan, 23, so exasperatingly inconsistent at times and prone to a daft Hollywood pass, has now stuck a couple of decent games together in succession!
These are all players who are only going to get better next season under Lambert.
The cream of the crop though has to be Benteke.
At 6ft 3in, 22-years-old and with 17 goals to his name already in his debut Premier League season, he will be one of the summer's most sought-after players in the top-flight.
And here's my point. Because battling through the pain of this season, enduring drubbings, flirting with relegation and losing to League Two teams in the cup is flipping depressing for fans, so when Villa do finally get a basis for success, they need to keep it and build on it.
The huge promise of Guzan, Benteke and Weimann this season at Villa Park has been like a rainbow in a thunderstorm.
But let's hope owner Randy Lerner doesn't grab the gold at the end of it if a big Premier League rival dangles a large summer cheque for any of them.
Realistically big Belgium striker Benteke will attract the most interest as he has been a revelation this season since a bargain £8million move from Genk last summer.
Flogging him this close-season though would badly undermine a lot of Lambert's work and demoralise supporters.
Previous big-name stars like Gareth Barry, Ashley Young, James Milner and Stewart Downing have all been sold in recent years for a premium.
Now it appears inevitable there will be interest and bids for Benteke.
Should Villa be relegated - which I am not expecting - then obviously Benteke will be off.
But Villa, if they retain their top-flight status, must hold firm, refuse to sell him and give Benteke a new contract to keep him sweet.
Otherwise a lot of Lambert's good work rebuilding Villa will be undone and the project will surely never progress significantly.
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Manyoo fans were complaining about Evra in his first six months/season. He turned it around. I think Bennett has shown more desire/skill/pace in that position than anyone for four years for us.
Weimann kept us up last season too. That last minute goal against Fulham
Scored a cracker against Stoke too didn't he in a drawn game?
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Which raises an interesting point. If Scotland gets independence will it still be part of the EU? If not Paul Lambert may well have to be shipped back north of the border.
*Chuckle emoticon*
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Thats pretty much spot on by James Nursey
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Extra bonus mark for using "flipping" as an adjective.
The Benteke transfer fee always seems to be quoted as £8m (pounds)...I thought it was €8m (euro), approx £6m-6.5m
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Clark has not outshone Vlaar at all imo.
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We weren't 'highly fortunate' to be on level terms at ht with QPR either
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We weren't 'highly fortunate' to be on level terms at ht with QPR either
Agree. We were just fortunate.
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We weren't 'highly fortunate' to be on level terms at ht with QPR either
Agree. We were just fortunate.
Fortunate Guzan did what he is paid to do?
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(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/villagirl_zps4ee14fb2.jpg)
Can she stay ? My perfect fantasy , beautiful woman in Villa kit.....
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Sell : Given, Lichaj, Hutton, Bannan, Ireland, Albrighton, Bent (purely down to value), Delfouneso.
Keep the rest and add where necessary, but quality and experience this time.
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Sell : Given, Lichaj, Hutton, Bannan, Ireland, Albrighton, Bent (purely down to value), Delfouneso.
Keep the rest and add where necessary, but quality and experience this time.
wont be easy to shift Given, Ireland and Bent. Dunne is out of contract. Expect along with the above that offers will be listened to for Holman, Kea, Herd and Stevens too. I wouldnt be against Clark or Baker being sold either to be honest. Dont think either are good enough and we badly need to sign a new centre half.
Provided we survive our squad needs a lot of investment. Keeping onto Guzan, Weimann and particularly Benteke could be difficult this summer especially if we maintain the frugal approach of the past couple of summers.
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Clark and Baker will not be sold, they are our future in the eyes of above.
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It looks like Mr Hutton is as good as sorted anyway:
http://www.realmallorca.co.uk/news/2013/03/mallorca-want-hutton-permanent-deal
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Fingers crossed
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Great news for the Wetherspoons in Magaluf
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Benteke staying is huge we need to convince him of the aspirations we have.
What aspirations have we other than survival? I don't think our aspirations can be very exciting when the owner himself is no longer interested in coming to watch.
I imagine the relative aspirations as something like:-
Aston Villa - lets keep ticking along and try our best to stay in this division
Benteke - I want to be one of the best strikers in the world.
Our aspirations couldn't convince our best players in the MON era to stay and we look even more lost now.
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It looks like Mr Hutton is as good as sorted anyway:
http://www.realmallorca.co.uk/news/2013/03/mallorca-want-hutton-permanent-deal
Good. He was really poor against Wales last night.
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Are we pushing our luck asking for a transfer fee? Just get him gone. You'll have a ball, Al.
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Thats pretty much spot on by James Nursey
As much as people criticise Nursey, he's a decent reporter. Mat Kendrick gets better transfer news, but his analysis and judgement of players is crap imho.
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Benteke staying is huge we need to convince him of the aspirations we have.
What aspirations have we other than survival? I don't think our aspirations can be very exciting when the owner himself is no longer interested in coming to watch.
I imagine the relative aspirations as something like:-
Aston Villa - lets keep ticking along and try our best to stay in this division
Benteke - I want to be one of the best strikers in the world.
Our aspirations couldn't convince our best players in the MON era to stay and we look even more lost now.
Utter bollocks. Our aspirations are still to do as well as we can, what's changed is that the owner won't bankroll us to it and won't risk the future of the club trying to buy our way in. It will be slower (and may turn out to be too slow for some of our current crop) but they still want to push on. All the work in the background in the last few years has been focused on increasing revenues to allow for much more organic growth. It's the only sensible model for running a club now, unless you have an owner willing to absorb hundreds of millions in losses whilst things break even, which is about 5 clubs in the world.
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Utter bollocks. Our aspirations are still to do as well as we can, what's changed is that the owner won't bankroll us to it and won't risk the future of the club trying to buy our way in. It will be slower (and may turn out to be too slow for some of our current crop) but they still want to push on. All the work in the background in the last few years has been focused on increasing revenues to allow for much more organic growth. It's the only sensible model for running a club now, unless you have an owner willing to absorb hundreds of millions in losses whilst things break even, which is about 5 clubs in the world.
Utter bollocks hey?
You need to take off rose tinted glasses my friend. I know the club's 'plan' and the reality of if is what i stated (lets keep ticking along and try our best to stay in this division). Yes, it's possible to have relative success with a well run club over time; but what evidence have you of Lerner and Faulkner having any idea of how to run a club well? Mr Lerner had a 'well run' sports club in America, but was a total failure when it came to competing in that sport.
As for increasing revenues, we were recently dropped by Genting if you didnt notice. I believe we only got that deal as the 3 6th place finishes were still recent(ish) history. We wont have big sponsors knocking on our door soon with our results now.
A well run club can only achieve so much (or little) in todays football with so many bankrolled clubs. Again, if we couldn't hang on to our best players when we were seen as genuine competitors for a top 4 place. Why would we hang onto them now? Your in a dreamworld.
Come back to me in 5 years and tell me if i've been talking bollocks. Just the facts i'm afraid.
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Um, you're both saying the same thing.
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I wouldn't call Arsenal, Everton or Spurs bankrolled clubs. There is relative success to be had by doing what we are doing.
Manchester United aren't a bankrolled club either, quite the opposite in fact.
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You need to take off rose tinted glasses my friend. I know the club's 'plan' and the reality of if is what i stated (lets keep ticking along and try our best to stay in this division). Yes, it's possible to have relative success with a well run club over time; but what evidence have you of Lerner and Faulkner having any idea of how to run a club well? Mr Lerner had a 'well run' sports club in America, but was a total failure when it came to competing in that sport.
Kept just the bold bit because that's the sentiment that offends me in amongst all this. First thing: I don't give a shit how well or badly the browns have done, it's a very different sport and has very different requirements, what we're looking to achieve at Villa is totally impossible with the drafts system they use.
If to you reality is that we're going to be shit for the foreseeable future that's your opinion, no matter how many time you accuse me of being in a dreamworld, or add 'fact' to your sentences it doesn't set that in stone any more. My reality is that I can see we've had a bad season as well as anyone else but I'm also capable of separating current results from the aspirations of the club going forward. I can also see that we have the youngest side in the league and that a number of those players have improved massively in the last 6 months. I can therefore predict that we have the potential to improve a lot, and that keeping our bright-lights and supplementing the squad with a few more players of the right quality can see us become much more competitive in the next couple of years.
There are a lot of ifs in there (they exist in your reality as well, but you refuse to acknowledge them) but I prefer to believe that, so long as we can see this season through and still be in the league, things will get a lot better.
So many bankrolled clubs - so that'll be Chelsea, Man City and QPR? Who else is living well outside their means at the moment?
Dropped by the sponsor - so a 2 year contract ending counts as being dropped? Let's see who we have next year and how much it's worth before we start getting upset about the end of a contract.
Losing players - Man utd lost Ronaldo having just won the league for the umpteenth time in the last 20years - players leave, replacing them effectively is the important bit. On top of the vision sold to the players whilst Mon was here was that we were going to break the top 4 that year, we didn't so they left. I doubt that's the vision Lambert has put forward. I suggest something like 'things will be tough this season but I think we have quality young players who can grow from a season battling together and become a very good unit over the next 2-3 years'. If he's got that right there's chance we can keep the likes of Benteke simply by stating that they knew what they were getting into at the start and appealing to them to see out the 'project'.
The issue I have with arguing against raging pessimism is that you can't lose. If I'm right and we become a top side and everything is great you're happy. If your right and we're still fighting relegation in 5 years time we're still shit but at least you were a prophet to that 'reality'. On top of that I'm going to be too busy celebrating our successes to care that you were wrong but if we're shit you're going to just be 'I told them it was going to happen'.
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... I can see we've had a bad season as well as anyone else but I'm also capable of separating current results from the aspirations of the club going forward. I can also see that we have the youngest side in the league and that a number of those players have improved massively in the last 6 months. I can therefore predict that we have the potential to improve a lot, and that keeping our bright-lights and supplementing the squad with a few more players of the right quality can see us become much more competitive in the next couple of years ...
Not wishing to get involved in the spat about different realities, I nonetheless pick up the above comment, Paul.
In the post-match thread of the first game of the season (away at Upton Park) I observed that, although we'd lost, there was only one team on the pitch that would improve over the course of the season (meaning us, of course).
Looking back, our league position might argue that I'd been rather optimistic. However, if we can survive we will be stronger, meaner and better-equipped for the P'ship. We will, as you say, need to add some more quality but I genuinely believe that we can become a decent P'ship with the opportunity for cups and European ventures in the near future.
That future will include us selling our best players from time to time - because every club in the division will have to do that from time to time (bar two or three) - and that will continue to put the emphasis on smart purchasing and an excellent academy. But, after suruvial this season, there is no reason not be to reasonably optimistic.
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You need to take off rose tinted glasses my friend. I know the club's 'plan' and the reality of if is what i stated (lets keep ticking along and try our best to stay in this division). Yes, it's possible to have relative success with a well run club over time; but what evidence have you of Lerner and Faulkner having any idea of how to run a club well? Mr Lerner had a 'well run' sports club in America, but was a total failure when it came to competing in that sport.
If to you reality is that we're going to be shit for the foreseeable future that's your opinion, no matter how many time you accuse me of being in a dreamworld, or add 'fact' to your sentences it doesn't set that in stone any more. My reality is that I can see we've had a bad season as well as anyone else but I'm also capable of separating current results from the aspirations of the club going forward. I can also see that we have the youngest side in the league and that a number of those players have improved massively in the last 6 months. I can therefore predict that we have the potential to improve a lot, and that keeping our bright-lights and supplementing the squad with a few more players of the right quality can see us become much more competitive in the next couple of years.
Good post Paul, but I do have an issue with the above part. We've not just had one bad season, we've had three in a row (even though we finished 9th under Houllier the warning signs were there). I have seen enough this season, however, to suggest that there is potential in the squad, but that a lot of work is still required to take the club forward. A big part of that work involves getting the right players in and shipping unwanted players out. Unfortunately, we have failed to do that in the past two summers (changing manager hasn't helped) and we've been up against it as a result. Having seen what happened in January, I would have to question whether we have the people capable of making the necessary changes to take the club forwards.
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To develop as a club the vision seems pretty clear to me.
We'll buy the likes of Ashley Westwood from lower league clubs, or for relatively cheap fees. Lambert and his coaching staff will try and improve them and we'll sell them on for a profit with time. Some of that money will be re-invested in buying the next Ashley Westwood.
I'm not knocking the club for doing that, as financially it makes sense. The problem is, we're going to have to stomach 3-4 more 'transition seasons' before we get anywhere near top 6. (Assuming we stay up!)
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The last 2 years were down to a number of things:
Changes in managers and more importantly philosophy.
That leads on to:
Off-field problems with various players mouthing off in the press, etc.
Replacements not filling the gaps:
If Ireland had filled the gap Milner left as expected would we have been 9th?
If Nzog had filled the Young gap and Albrighton had kept his form to replace downing would we have battled relegation?
Injuries:
3 years in a row we've had a massive injury crisis at a point in the season, that's got to be pretty unique for a premier league team.
A change in the atmosphere around the club - After a few heady years of being bankrolled and thinking we could break into the sky 4 the club in general has been on a bit of a downer since the annual march slump in MONs last season. With the talk of Milner leaving, MON pimping himself for the red scouse job, no transfers, MON walking out, GH pissing a lot of fans off, the whole TSM debacle and all the above happening in between the fans have been a pretty pissed off bunch for a few years.
The last one needs to change. We need to start believing again at some point and I think there's enough potential in the current squad that it's worth believing in, so long as we fill a few gaps this summer.
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The last 2 years were down to a number of things:
Changes in managers and more importantly philosophy.
That leads on to:
Off-field problems with various players mouthing off in the press, etc.
Replacements not filling the gaps:
If Ireland had filled the gap Milner left as expected would we have been 9th?
If Nzog had filled the Young gap and Albrighton had kept his form to replace downing would we have battled relegation?
Injuries:
3 years in a row we've had a massive injury crisis at a point in the season, that's got to be pretty unique for a premier league team.
A change in the atmosphere around the club - After a few heady years of being bankrolled and thinking we could break into the sky 4 the club in general has been on a bit of a downer since the annual march slump in MONs last season. With the talk of Milner leaving, MON pimping himself for the red scouse job, no transfers, MON walking out, GH pissing a lot of fans off, the whole TSM debacle and all the above happening in between the fans have been a pretty pissed off bunch for a few years.
The last one needs to change. We need to start believing again at some point and I think there's enough potential in the current squad that it's worth believing in, so long as we fill a few gaps this summer.
Again, I'd agree with that Paul. Hopefully we can stay up and with Lambert staying on we can have a bit of the stability and continuity we have been missing for a few seasons. I'm still not overly confident about our transfer policy (mainly because of what happened in January), but hopefully with the right signings in the summer we can make progress next season.
Looking back, I think the poor start to the season impacted on the belief of a lot of fans. There was certainly a lot of belief amongst the 3,000 that travelled to Forest for the pre season game, but the ineptitude shown that day followed by starting the season with poor performances against West Ham and Everton had an impact.
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"@OptaJoe: 328 - Ciaran Clark of Aston Villa has made more defensive clearances than any other Premier League player."
A good case to keep?
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The problem is, we're going to have to stomach 3-4 more 'transition seasons' before we get anywhere near top 6. (Assuming we stay up!)
The reality is that even if we're pushing top six most fans will be wanting top 4. That's the nature of the game. I think "the transition" season is pretty typical for most clubs nowadays as players seemingly leave at their whim. I suppose my point is that we have to try enjoy it more as whether we are, bottom 6, top six the expectations will never be satisfied.
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so where do we stand now on who should be going in and out this summer?
out
given, lichaj, dunne, hutton, makoun, Ireland, Albrighton, El Ahmadi, Stevens, Holman, Dawkins, Bent
We are going to find it difficult to shift the likes of Given, Ireland and Bent unless they are willing to take a decent pay cut at a new club
maybe
Clark/baker, Nzogbia, Bannan, Herd
Wont be too many tears shed if Bannan or Herd head off elsewhere but they are decent squad players to have around. Centre back is a priority in the summer and think we need to prioritise which of Baker or Clark we are going to give more time to. Two left sided reserve centre halves is unnecessary. Does Nzogbia do enough for the wages he is getting us from us? Debatable
What we need
At least one centre half. Not sure what our budget is like but Lescott is an obvious choice. Chico Flores at Swansea is a bit of a hot head but is a better defender than Williams I reckon. Both of them are decent with the ball and we need someone to bring the ball out from the back. Kaboul at Spurs is a decent defender but we have had it with injury prone defenders this season I reckon. Micah Richards is worth swerving for the same reasons.
Cover at full back
lambert seems to have give up on Lichaj and both of our young full backs have suffered horror shows at times this season. Marc Wilson despite being utter shite yesterday provides cover in a number of positions. Stoke will be needing to balance the books next summer regardless of what division their in. Think he would be a good fit for us.
Midfield
Delph and Westwood seem to have struck up a decent deep lying partnership in midfield. We certainly need a body comfortable coming forward supporting the strikers. Id like to bring in an experienced player here who has been successful elsewhere and will be keen to bring along the likes of Westwood further. Milner is probably a pipe dream, Lampard would be ideal but we wont be able to afford him either. The player I think that would be ideal to come in is....... Gareth Barry.
His best days may be over but he comes back to the club having played at World Cup and Champions League level. Also league medal in his back pocket. Yesterday and at many times during the season we were crying out to bring on an experienced head to settle us down. If Barry could come in and play 25 games next season I think that would be ideal for us. Think he is capable of playing further forward like he did to great effect towards the end of his Villa days.
Would need probably 2 new midfielders to come in really. Likely to be a lot of interest in De Guzman but he would suit our style of play a lot.
Up front
if Bent does go we are probably a bit light up front. Definitely think to play 3 up top suits us and Nzogbia fits in that system also. But Gabby and Nzogbia in particular can be very inconsistent. Another option is likely to be needed. Scott Sinclair is obvious but id be wary of his motivations. Jay Rodriguez would be pricey but is on fire at the moment and is likely to improve further. Id money was freed up, wouldnt mind paying over the odds for him.
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Priority one is keep hold of benteke.
Priority two is keep hold of benteke and Weimann.
After that, surely we don't want another mass exodus? I'd have thought we should try to shift Ireland, warock, lichaj probably Dunne.
Then listen to offers for KEA, Albrighton, Herd and if its big money,bent. But in reality I suspect most will stay.
I can't see anyone from man city or Chelsea joining villa. There's too big a wage differential.
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Priority one is keep hold of benteke.
Priority two is keep hold of benteke and Weimann.
After that, surely we don't want another mass exodus? I'd have thought we should try to shift Ireland, warock, lichaj probably Dunne.
Then listen to offers for KEA, Albrighton, Herd and if its big money,bent. But in reality I suspect most will stay.
I can't see anyone from man city or Chelsea joining villa. There's too big a wage differential.
Dunne is out of contract so is gone anyway, think Warnock officially left in January.
Barry and Lescott only have a year left on their contracts at City. City will want to cash in on them both in the summer with all the noise about Uefa rules re salary caps. Barry might hold out for one last season there but Lescott surely will be looking for first team football with the World Cup coming up. Everton probably isnt an option for him. Villa fan from Birmingham, wouldnt be surprised to see that move come off in the summer to be honest. What other better options than Villa will he have?
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I can see us in for Lescott if we shift Bent and Ireland.
The out list appears obvious to include:
Given - he will want to play I am sure, and a newly promoted side or even an Arsenal or United might fancy him as a rotation option.
Hutton - looks like he might stay in Spain, which would be grand. The animal.
Dunne - Out of contract and can't see him ever being fit enough to play top flight again.
Petrov - Clearly not going to play again and hopefully will move into the coaching set up. All we want for Stan is to be well.
Ireland - Will go for 1-2 million somewhere mad enough to take the chance, but someone will, they always do.
Bent - 8-10 million will still come in for him from someone and put that, together with the wages saved, and the TV money and we could have 25 million to spend again like last summer.
Question is, of the last 4-5 villa manager, who would you want spending 25 million this summer. For me Lambert wins that at a canter.
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Priority one is keep hold of benteke.
Priority two is keep hold of benteke and Weimann.
After that, surely we don't want another mass exodus? I'd have thought we should try to shift Ireland, warock, lichaj probably Dunne.
Then listen to offers for KEA, Albrighton, Herd and if its big money,bent. But in reality I suspect most will stay.
I can't see anyone from man city or Chelsea joining villa. There's too big a wage differential.
Shouldn't that be;
Priority one is keep hold of benteke AND Guzan
Priority two is keep hold of Weimann.
;)
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Priority one is keep hold of benteke.
Priority two is keep hold of benteke and Weimann.
After that, surely we don't want another mass exodus? I'd have thought we should try to shift Ireland, warock, lichaj probably Dunne.
Then listen to offers for KEA, Albrighton, Herd and if its big money,bent. But in reality I suspect most will stay.
I can't see anyone from man city or Chelsea joining villa. There's too big a wage differential.
Shouldn't that be;
Priority one is keep hold of benteke AND Guzan
Priority two is keep hold of Weimann.
;)
I don't think there's any chance of Guzan going anywhere , he seems very happy at the club - Weimann and benteke will probably stay should we survive .
We have a crop of good youngsters coming through to bolster the squad and Gary Gardner also nearing a return- i see him having a huge part to play .
It will be difficult to move on given and Ireland due to wages but the players I'd be prepared to let leave under the right offer are -
Holman , dunne, bent, given, Ireland, bannan, albrighton,lichaj, Fonz,kea.
The only real money from them would be bent but for £12m plus other investment i think the addition of 3 or 4 experienced players and we will have a decent season next year.
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I had forgotton Holman. I would imagine he will be off.
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Unless we can trade Bent for someone else, I really can't see a club going for him. He is on huge money and been injured for over 18 months. Think we are going to have to get him back fit and scoring goals for other clubs to have an interest. Benteke has a lot more to his game but with the way we are playing now Bent would probably still score a few if he played more. Some fall from grace from a player that was starting with England not too long ago
MLS or A-league for Stephen Ireland. Unless Hughes gets a club again he is toast at premier league level.
No idea who will go for Given. On last seasons club form he could easily hold his own at most clubs but same problems as Bent, on a big contract with injury problems. Can't help feeling that Euro 2012 finished him as a player though.
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Unless we can trade Bent for someone else, I really can't see a club going for him. He is on huge money and been injured for over 18 months. Think we are going to have to get him back fit and scoring goals for other clubs to have an interest. Benteke has a lot more to his game but with the way we are playing now Bent would probably still score a few if he played more. Some fall from grace from a player that was starting with England not too long ago
MLS or A-league for Stephen Ireland. Unless Hughes gets a club again he is toast at premier league level.
No idea who will go for Given. On last seasons club form he could easily hold his own at most clubs but same problems as Bent, on a big contract with injury problems. Can't help feeling that Euro 2012 finished him as a player though.
I think bent will attract interest , he is a goalscorer and they are always in demand- cant see us getting more than £12m though.
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Given, Hutton (already found his club), Ireland, Dunne, Delfounso, Holman would go.
Bent if we get an offer of £12 million or over.
Dawkins would return after his loan period was over. Maybe one of Lichaj and Herd can go. I would keep Herd and turn him into a right back as he was very good in that position. He could back up/compete with Lowton.
The Enda Stephens? Not sure, haven't seen enough of him.
The rest I would keep, Albrighton I would give another chance to, I still think there's a player there.
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Given, Hutton (already found his club), Ireland, Dunne, Delfounso, Holman would go.
Bent if we get an offer of £12 million or over.
Dawkins would return after his loan period was over. Maybe one of Lichaj and Herd can go. I would keep Herd and turn him into a right back as he was very good in that position. He could back up/compete with Lowton.
The Enda Stephens? Not sure, haven't seen enough of him.
The rest I would keep, Albrighton I would give another chance to, I still think there's a player there.
I'd agree with almost all that. I'd still like to keep Bent and i would'nt be against keeping Dunne for another year if he was fit enough but i can't see that one happening.
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Holman , KEA , Hutton , Ireland , Stephens , Eric , Dunne , Bannan , Dawkins , Fonz , Given and Makoun
We would not miss any of them - goodbye
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I still think there's huge potential in Bannan and Fonz. In the case of Fonz, he's still very young!
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I'd agree with all that JP. I'd possibly add N'Zogbia into the mix too. For his wages he's far too inconsistent. We can't hope he has half a dozen good games a year when he feels like it. I'd also offload Bent, though I'm sure he just slipped your mind. I think if we get around 15 for Bent and Zog we'll have done okay.
Then we buy a top quality centre back, midfielder and another decent young forward. And a few decent additions where we need it.
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I'd give the iffy youngsters another go to see if they've learnt anything. They were thrown in the deep end so we might as well see if they benefit from it. Anyone brought this season should get another try, Holman and KEA included. Most of them aren't a drain on our resources and they could adapt
Shifting the Likes of Dunne, Hutton and Ireland goes without saying.
Fonz N'Zogbia and Albrighton regretably need to go
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Basically, offload all the older overpaid lazy bastards, and buy you hungry players on a fair wage. I think that is Lambert's idea also.
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I'd agree with all that JP. I'd possibly add N'Zogbia into the mix too. For his wages he's far too inconsistent. We can't hope he has half a dozen good games a year when he feels like it. I'd also offload Bent, though I'm sure he just slipped your mind. I think if we get around 15 for Bent and Zog we'll have done okay.
Then we buy a top quality centre back, midfielder and another decent young forward. And a few decent additions where we need it.
Probably go with that too, nzogbia has shown in glimpses what he can do but for the wages hes on and the fee he cost he has been disappointing in the main.
Bent is too good to be a bench player and probably would prefer a move for regular football - £12m could get us a couple of decent players in defence and midfield .
Fonz has been around a while now, if bent goes then maybe Fonz could be retained but he needs to up his game at this level- regarding bannan I would be happy to get a couple of million for him.
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Fonz has done ok on loan this season. I think in time he will be a premier league player personally, it will just take a while. Another season on loan maybe going to Holloway at Palace would do him good. If he is happy to go on loan and develop, I would keep him on the books.
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I still think there's huge potential in Bannan and Fonz. In the case of Fonz, he's still very young!
Fonz hasnt looked good for Blackpool Billy and we should be looking for a top midfield in the summer to replace Ireland and Bannan .
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I'd agree with all that JP. I'd possibly add N'Zogbia into the mix too. For his wages he's far too inconsistent. We can't hope he has half a dozen good games a year when he feels like it. I'd also offload Bent, though I'm sure he just slipped your mind. I think if we get around 15 for Bent and Zog we'll have done okay.
Then we buy a top quality centre back, midfielder and another decent young forward. And a few decent additions where we need it.
No Bent had not slipped my mind to be fair. I would only sell him for good money . First we have to have Benteke and Weimann here for next season before we sell him and the other thing is , if we ever lost Benteke or even Weiman to a long injury we would have serious problems. I actually think we have the best strike force ( 4 players ) in the Prem.
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anyway , Hasn't Lambert be looking at this Walsall player . Grigg or something like that
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Until the second half of this season I would have said let Gabby go too. He'd been poor for a couple of seasons before that. Its one of Lambert's achievements getting him contributing again.
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I'd agree with all that JP. I'd possibly add N'Zogbia into the mix too. For his wages he's far too inconsistent. We can't hope he has half a dozen good games a year when he feels like it. I'd also offload Bent, though I'm sure he just slipped your mind. I think if we get around 15 for Bent and Zog we'll have done okay.
Then we buy a top quality centre back, midfielder and another decent young forward. And a few decent additions where we need it.
No Bent had not slipped my mind to be fair. I would only sell him for good money . First we have to have Benteke and Weimann here for next season before we sell him and the other thing is , if we ever lost Benteke or even Weiman to a long injury we would have serious problems. I actually think we have the best strike force ( 4 players ) in the Prem.
Better than van persie, Rooney , wellbeck and Hernandez ? Not for me .
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Holman , KEA , Hutton , Ireland , Stephens , Eric , Dunne , Bannan , Dawkins , Fonz , Given and Makoun
We would not miss any of them - goodbye
Id add albrighton to that list
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I'd would'nt selling Bent. He's still got a part to play and seems happy enough.
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I'd would'nt selling Bent. He's still got a part to play and seems happy enough.
He'll be gone. He's on too much money and we won't tolerate those wages anymore.
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I'd hope to keep N'Zogbia out of all the big earners. Still think with a bit of persistence he'd be a big asset to the team.
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I'd would'nt selling Bent. He's still got a part to play and seems happy enough.
He'll be gone. He's on too much money and we won't tolerate those wages anymore.
Exactly - big wages for a bit part player , would command a decent fee and probably would prefer to be playing at this stage of his career.
I like benty but I don't think he fits in lamberts style of play .
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Expecting/hoping for a £12m bid for Bent is unrealistic. He hasn't been a regular starter or scorer for over 12 months now when he should be at the peak of his career. His stock will have dropped quite considerably and I think we'd be looking at £6m-£8m. Clubs know we barely use him and he's on more money than regular starters like Weimann and the full-backs combined which weakens our bargaining position further. Unless there's a couple of clubs interested to start a bidding war, Fulham for six and a half million is my prediction. It's a shame because there's still a regular goalscorer there but as a club in transition and having been usurped by Benteke, there is no role for him here anymore.
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Expecting/hoping for a £12m bid for Bent is unrealistic. He hasn't been a regular starter or scorer for over 12 months now when he should be at the peak of his career. His stock will have dropped quite considerably and I think we'd be looking at £6m-£8m. Clubs know we barely use him and he's on more money than regular starters like Weimann and the full-backs combined which weakens our bargaining position further. Unless there's a couple of clubs interested to start a bidding war, Fulham for six and a half million is my prediction. It's a shame because there's still a regular goalscorer there but as a club in transition and having been usurped by Benteke, there is no role for him here anymore.
I wouldn't sell him for £6m - to be honest £12m is optimistic but £10m realistic.
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It's a shame because there's still a regular goalscorer there but as a club in transition and having been usurped by Benteke, there is no role for him here anymore.
You're right but Bent is probably the biggest waste of money I've ever seen the Villa pay. Not because he's not good enough, far from it, but because of the way he's been used.
We all know that he's completely one-dimensional but that one dimension is pretty much guaranteed to get you 20 goals a season and to spend £20m on someone like that (plus whatever his astronomical wages are) and then leave him on the bench so much so that I also think we'll be lucky to get much more than £5/£6m is an absolute waste.
Such a shame. I had really high hopes when we signed him that he would go down as a legend but I reckon I'll struggle to recall he ever played for us in 10 years time.
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Bennett is starting to look settled now, I think he'll be good.
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It's a shame because there's still a regular goalscorer there but as a club in transition and having been usurped by Benteke, there is no role for him here anymore.
You're right but Bent is probably the biggest waste of money I've ever seen the Villa pay. Not because he's not good enough, far from it, but because of the way he's been used.
We all know that he's completely one-dimensional but that one dimension is pretty much guaranteed to get you 20 goals a season and to spend £20m on someone like that (plus whatever his astronomical wages are) and then leave him on the bench so much so that I also think we'll be lucky to get much more than £5/£6m is an absolute waste.
Such a shame. I had really high hopes when we signed him that he would go down as a legend but I reckon I'll struggle to recall he ever played for us in 10 years time.
I'd agree that the Bent we bought from Sunderland was that type of player, but I think the injuries he's had have taken their toll and he looks the shadow of the player he was when he first arrived at the club.
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Ireland, N'zogbia, Bent, Given, Hutton, Holman, Delfonso. Dunne.
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Out: Ireland, N'zogbia, Bent, Given, Hutton, Holman, Delfonso.
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You're right but Bent is probably the biggest waste of money I've ever seen the Villa pay.
Disagree. His goals kept us up in the Houllier season and you can argue also kept us up last season (we only turned to shit after he got injured). Thus he has already repayed his fee. Plus we can recoup some of the fee when we sell him. For me our biggest waste of money is Ireland. Probably lost out on about 10m from the Milner deal because we got him in exchange. He has no sell on value and will see out his contract. So we've paid him millions for doing fuck all.
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(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb411/lemsta007/villagirl_zps4ee14fb2.jpg)
Can she stay ? My perfect fantasy , beautiful woman in Villa kit.....
Yes!
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Why have I noticed her nails are complimenting the shirt?
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Holman , KEA , Hutton , Ireland , Stephens , Eric , Dunne , Bannan , Dawkins , Fonz , Given and Makoun
We would not miss any of them - goodbye
Id add albrighton to that list
I would have done normally , I think hes been dire lately but maybe he was played too much when young and hes also had injuries a lot . I think I would give him just one more season and see If Lambert can do anything with him as he did not cost anything. If not , get rid.
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You're right but Bent is probably the biggest waste of money I've ever seen the Villa pay.
Disagree. His goals kept us up in the Houllier season and you can argue also kept us up last season (we only turned to shit after he got injured). Thus he has already repayed his fee. Plus we can recoup some of the fee when we sell him. For me our biggest waste of money is Ireland. Probably lost out on about 10m from the Milner deal because we got him in exchange. He has no sell on value and will see out his contract. So we've paid him millions for doing fuck all.
I still think Bent will pop up with a important goal .
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Holman , KEA , Hutton , Ireland , Stephens , Eric , Dunne , Bannan , Dawkins , Fonz , Given and Makoun
We would not miss any of them - goodbye
Id add albrighton to that list
I would have done normally , I think hes been dire lately but maybe he was played too much when young and hes also had injuries a lot . I think I would give him just one more season and see If Lambert can do anything with him as he did not cost anything. If not , get rid.
Fair comment jp , thanks again for Saturday mate !
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Holman , KEA , Hutton , Ireland , Stephens , Eric , Dunne , Bannan , Dawkins , Fonz , Given and Makoun
We would not miss any of them - goodbye
Id add albrighton to that list
I would have done normally , I think hes been dire lately but maybe he was played too much when young and hes also had injuries a lot . I think I would give him just one more season and see If Lambert can do anything with him as he did not cost anything. If not , get rid.
Fair comment jp , thanks again for Saturday mate !
Probably give KEA and Holman another season in a (hopefully) improving team to see if they can adapt.
Lots of players don'tplay well in their first season in a new league in a new country. Granted they have less reason than most.
Can't argue with the rest to be fair. Any of them.
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I'd flog KEA and Holman.
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I wonder if Albrightons ship has sailed,especially with Carruthers and Grealish waiting in the wings.
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I wonder if Albrightons ship has sailed,especially with Carruthers and Grealish waiting in the wings.
I'd like to see him get another season as I don't think he's had a real chance since Lambert took over because of injuries.
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I wonder if Albrightons ship has sailed,especially with Carruthers and Grealish waiting in the wings.
I'd like to see him get another season as I don't think he's had a real chance since Lambert took over because of injuries.
I don't think it's so much injuries , i just don't think lambert likes playing regularly with out and out wide men- I'm not fussed either way should he stay or go - he needs to deliver if he stays.
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I'm undecided on KEA and Holman, but I do think Albrighton needs to be moved on now.
As I see it, we play a midfield three and presently have Westwood, Delph, Sylla, Bannan, KEA, Ireland, Holman, Albrighton and N'Zogbia fighting for those positions. If you take at least one to come in, which is needed in terms of quality, that's 10 for 3 slots, so wages wise we can't afford that, meaning quite a few need to go.
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Given, Stevens, Lichaj, N'zogbia, Ireland, Holman, Bent and the Fonz. That's 8 out for me, and they would all need replacing with better/more motivated players. I can't see us getting more than £20 mill for that lot so some sizeable investment would be necessary too, probably the same again from RL would see us progress.
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I wonder if Albrightons ship has sailed,especially with Carruthers and Grealish waiting in the wings.
I'd like to see him get another season as I don't think he's had a real chance since Lambert took over because of injuries.
Since making the first team, Albrighton has probably had a handful of good games, which is very poor. He's a very poor player who I think would struggle in the Championship.
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I'm undecided on KEA and Holman, but I do think Albrighton needs to be moved on now.
As I see it, we play a midfield three and presently have Westwood, Delph, Sylla, Bannan, KEA, Ireland, Holman, Albrighton and N'Zogbia fighting for those positions. If you take at least one to come in, which is needed in terms of quality, that's 10 for 3 slots, so wages wise we can't afford that, meaning quite a few need to go.
Holman just looks rubbish to me , get rid and replace with Townsend ( qpr/spurs ) . He looks good
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We should ask Brad who he would like to play in front of him and Tekkers who he'd like to provide the ammunition from behind and get them in. We would then have a pretty strong spine of a team
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I'm undecided on KEA and Holman, but I do think Albrighton needs to be moved on now.
As I see it, we play a midfield three and presently have Westwood, Delph, Sylla, Bannan, KEA, Ireland, Holman, Albrighton and N'Zogbia fighting for those positions. If you take at least one to come in, which is needed in terms of quality, that's 10 for 3 slots, so wages wise we can't afford that, meaning quite a few need to go.
Holman just looks rubbish to me , get rid and replace with Townsend ( qpr/spurs ) . He looks good
Although I think calling him rubbish is a bit harsh, I can't argue he's actually been good.
But then do we write players off too quickly? Are we certain he won't improve if he stays? There's more than one player of a better pedigree than him that's taken time to adjust to PL life.
And also, if all these players go we'll need to replace them. I doubt we'll have mega money in the summer, so having people like Holman on hand to fill out the squad allows us to focus quality over quantity, which is what we need.
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I'm undecided on KEA and Holman, but I do think Albrighton needs to be moved on now.
As I see it, we play a midfield three and presently have Westwood, Delph, Sylla, Bannan, KEA, Ireland, Holman, Albrighton and N'Zogbia fighting for those positions. If you take at least one to come in, which is needed in terms of quality, that's 10 for 3 slots, so wages wise we can't afford that, meaning quite a few need to go.
Holman just looks rubbish to me , get rid and replace with Townsend ( qpr/spurs ) . He looks good
Although I think calling him rubbish is a bit harsh, I can't argue he's actually been good.
But then do we write players off too quickly? Are we certain he won't improve if he stays? There's more than one player of a better pedigree than him that's taken time to adjust to PL life.
And also, if all these players go we'll need to replace them. I doubt we'll have mega money in the summer, so having people like Holman on hand to fill out the squad allows us to focus quality over quantity, which is what we need.
He has been CJ at times , had the odd alright game but it is not good enough for the prem , like a few down there .
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plus I saw something where he was moaning Lambert does not even talk to him . He's off , hoping...
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plus I saw something where he was moaning Lambert does not even talk to him . He's off , hoping...
Really? I haven't heard anything about that - doubt it would go down too well .
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I'm undecided on KEA and Holman, but I do think Albrighton needs to be moved on now.
As I see it, we play a midfield three and presently have Westwood, Delph, Sylla, Bannan, KEA, Ireland, Holman, Albrighton and N'Zogbia fighting for those positions. If you take at least one to come in, which is needed in terms of quality, that's 10 for 3 slots, so wages wise we can't afford that, meaning quite a few need to go.
Holman just looks rubbish to me , get rid and replace with Townsend ( qpr/spurs ) . He looks good
Although I think calling him rubbish is a bit harsh, I can't argue he's actually been good.
But then do we write players off too quickly? Are we certain he won't improve if he stays? There's more than one player of a better pedigree than him that's taken time to adjust to PL life.
And also, if all these players go we'll need to replace them. I doubt we'll have mega money in the summer, so having people like Holman on hand to fill out the squad allows us to focus quality over quantity, which is what we need.
He has been CJ at times , had the odd alright game but it is not good enough for the prem , like a few down there .
Fair enough if you don't rate him, but my point was more of a general one that we need to try and make do with some of the lesser lights in the squad, so that we don't end up in a situation where we bring in 9 players again. It's a fact that is often overlooked, but that's a huge influx Lambert had to deal with this season. If keeping Holman or similar meant that we could get 1 £10m player and opposed to needing two £5m players, then I'd keep him.
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Dunne, Holman, Ireland, Bannan and Given can all go for me. I'd hold onto Bent until January 2014 to see if he can come good under Lambert.
I'd like to see us get an experienced central midfielder. A leader, a captain. Someone maybe who's best years are behind him but a solid pro able to help our younger players. A Scott Parker type player and character.
Guzan deserves to have the No1 shirt so a suitable back up keeper is essential. I wouldn't mind an experienced central defender as well who can be competition for Vlaar, Clark and Baker. - Maybe Shawcross if Stoke end up relegated.
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I'm undecided on KEA and Holman, but I do think Albrighton needs to be moved on now.
As I see it, we play a midfield three and presently have Westwood, Delph, Sylla, Bannan, KEA, Ireland, Holman, Albrighton and N'Zogbia fighting for those positions. If you take at least one to come in, which is needed in terms of quality, that's 10 for 3 slots, so wages wise we can't afford that, meaning quite a few need to go.
Holman just looks rubbish to me , get rid and replace with Townsend ( qpr/spurs ) . He looks good
Although I think calling him rubbish is a bit harsh, I can't argue he's actually been good.
But then do we write players off too quickly? Are we certain he won't improve if he stays? There's more than one player of a better pedigree than him that's taken time to adjust to PL life.
And also, if all these players go we'll need to replace them. I doubt we'll have mega money in the summer, so having people like Holman on hand to fill out the squad allows us to focus quality over quantity, which is what we need.
He has been CJ at times , had the odd alright game but it is not good enough for the prem , like a few down there .
Fair enough if you don't rate him, but my point was more of a general one that we need to try and make do with some of the lesser lights in the squad, so that we don't end up in a situation where we bring in 9 players again. It's a fact that is often overlooked, but that's a huge influx Lambert had to deal with this season. If keeping Holman or similar meant that we could get 1 £10m player and opposed to needing two £5m players, then I'd keep him.
hopefully we can bring some of the kids in . yes I know , I know , youngsters again .. but with a couple of leaders in the transfer window too , one at the back and the playmaker to replace Ireland and Holman .
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I think he probably will JP. He'll be encouraged by how well the likes of Lowton and Benteke have done.
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I would be expecting Gary Gardner and Samir Carruthers to start getting the odd game . Bring Jack Grealish onto the bench too.
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I would be expecting Gary Gardner and Samir Carruthers to start getting the odd game . Bring Jack Grealish onto the bench too.
Bang on the money jp.
Add to these with two or three quality experienced heads and we could be looking for a top 10 spot next season.
There are a lot of players who are not good enough and can be hopefully shipped out ., natural progression .
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If Holman was 3-4 years younger I'd give him another year for sure, at his age I'm not so sure.
I agree on giving Grealish, Gardner and Carruthers a chance feature, it's a shame we're not already safe because that's something we could have looked at in the last 4-5 games, I do hope Gardner makes it back into the squad before the end of the season though, I think it would do him a lot of good to be involved with the first team after the year he's had, kind of like validation that he's not been forgotten about during his injury.
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I don't think Holman has the technique to succeed at Villa. I wouldn't be disappointed to see him move on.
Albrighton doesn't really fit the formation we play. It might be worth his while to try to re-invent himself as a right back. Other than that it's not in his interests to stay at the club. At 23 he shouldn't be playing u-21 football.
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Dunne, KEA, Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zog and Given should be kissed off.
Can Stevens still remain a credible cover at LB (his absence in recent weeks would suggest not)? If not, move him on.
Question: can Lichaj be converted into a good reserve CB? If not, move him on.
Holman? - I think there might still be something there for us, as long as he knuckles down and sorts out his technique.
Herd: I still think is good DMF cover.
We need a couple of experienced CB and a commanding CMF.
And we may need a new reserve keeper, unless Siegrist is the one. Certianly Watkins will, I think, become a very good keeper but it may be too early for him.
Daniel Johnson, Gardner, Carruthers, Grealish - young MF to add to our current youthful midfield - are likely to be ready but should only be played if we bring in the right sort of authoritative MF general.
Williams and Donacien are the upandcoming defenders but there is a real need to support Vlaar with a large ball-winning CB. I don't think we'll get Shawcross if he becomes avaialble but someone like him would do it.
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Dunne, KEA, Ireland, Bannan, Albrighton, N'Zog and Given should be kissed off.
Can Stevens still remain a credible cover at LB (his absence in recent weeks would suggest not)? If not, move him on.
Question: can Lichaj be converted into a good reserve CB? If not, move him on.
Holman? - I think there might still be something there for us, as long as he knuckles down and sorts out his technique.
Herd: I still think is good DMF cover.
We need a couple of experienced CB and a commanding CMF.
And we may need a new reserve keeper, unless Siegrist is the one. Certianly Watkins will, I think, become a very good keeper but it may be too early for him.
Daniel Johnson, Gardner, Carruthers, Grealish - young MF to add to our current youthful midfield - are likely to be ready but should only be played if we bring in the right sort of authoritative MF general.
Williams and Donacien are the upandcoming defenders but there is a real need to support Vlaar with a large ball-winning CB. I don't think we'll get Shawcross if he becomes avaialble but someone like him would do it.
Do we really need a couple of centre backs? 1 of the right quality is enough for me, Baker and Clark have enough promise that I'd hate the get to the summer and then effectively demote them both to the odd 10minutes and cup game, which would have to happen if we signed 2 of the standard we require. An alternative at right back is far higher on the list for me, and Lowton has done well enough that I don't mind it being a youngster. We also really need someone as backup/competition for Gabby, as we are I don't see how we could play the shape we are if he was out injured.
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Lichaj is out of contract this year so it's more of a 'does he really figure long term?' decision. I suspect he's already been told to get in touch with his agent.
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I would hope that the very second our safety is assured, we can dedicate serious effort to getting rid of all that overpaid shit that we have been carrying for the past few years. Let's bite the bullet and pay off who we have to and rid our balance sheet of these parasites.
Rant over.
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I'd be okay if we were unable to move Given on, it's serious competition to keep Guzan on his toes and would allow Siegrist time to develop and more importantly he may learn a allot from Given. While I recognize we need to cut the wage bill, don't think that will be as easy as some think and would devote far more time finding Ireland a new club than Given
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I'd be okay if we were unable to move Given on, it's serious competition to keep Guzan on his toes and would allow Siegrist time to develop and more importantly he may learn a allot from Given. While I recognize we need to cut the wage bill, don't think that will be as easy as some think and would devote far more time finding Ireland a new club than Given
That's pretty much my take on things as well. He's one of the few senior heads we have, and I'm sure he's good to have
around for the likes of Clark Stevens Burke Carruthers etc
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plus I saw something where he was moaning Lambert does not even talk to him . He's off , hoping...
Really? I haven't heard anything about that - doubt it would go down too well .
BRETT HOLMAN admits he has barely spoken to boss Paul Lambert after getting the chop.
The Aston Villa midfielder says he does not know why he has lost his place after being a regular during the first half of the season.
Aussie Holman, 28, has not started a game since January and when asked why, he said: “You’d have to ask the coach.
“I haven’t really spoken to him a lot. He’s gone for a different thing and different way but I can’t give you an answer.
“I honestly don’t think I have done anything different after Christmas. It’s disappointing.
“But if you dwell on it and let it get to you, then it really affects you and puts you in a pattern where your football can go downhill.”
Holman was Alex McLeish’s last Villa signing before he was sacked at the end of last season.
The Bosman free transfer from Dutch side AZ Alkmaar added: “It’s frustrating but it’s something I have to deal with.
March 23rd 2013
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plus I saw something where he was moaning Lambert does not even talk to him . He's off , hoping...
Really? I haven't heard anything about that - doubt it would go down too well .
BRETT HOLMAN admits he has barely spoken to boss Paul Lambert after getting the chop.
The Aston Villa midfielder says he does not know why he has lost his place after being a regular during the first half of the season.
Aussie Holman, 28, has not started a game since January and when asked why, he said: “You’d have to ask the coach.
“I haven’t really spoken to him a lot. He’s gone for a different thing and different way but I can’t give you an answer.
“I honestly don’t think I have done anything different after Christmas. It’s disappointing.
“But if you dwell on it and let it get to you, then it really affects you and puts you in a pattern where your football can go downhill.”
Holman was Alex McLeish’s last Villa signing before he was sacked at the end of last season.
The Bosman free transfer from Dutch side AZ Alkmaar added: “It’s frustrating but it’s something I have to deal with.
March 23rd 2013
Should be pretty obvious to him why he lost his place.
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I'll probably get shot down for this but I think there could be a way back for the Fonz. He has been decent playing in the wide forward role at Blackpool and now we play a similar 4-3-3 system, he might be worth one last shot. Having a full season's football can't have done him any harm.
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I'll probably get shot down for this but I think there could be a way back for the Fonz. He has been decent playing in the wide forward role at Blackpool and now we play a similar 4-3-3 system, he might be worth one last shot. Having a full season's football can't have done him any harm.
I'd imagine Lambert's keeping tabs on him. Good shout if he's up to it. I know there's a transfer window imminent, but we lack cover in the wide areas where Weimann and Gabby currently operate so well. As it stands, whenever we lose one of those two, it invariably leads to a change of shape. He could be a good like-for-like option. Holman, despite early promise, doesn't look threatening enough. Bowery's future maybe lies more centrally. Starting to get the feeling that the out-and-out winger's days are numbered, so Albrighton could be gone.
So, agreed. Don't write the fonz off just yet.