Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: KRS on February 27, 2013, 02:31:19 AM
-
Getting relegated is clearly a certain possibility this season...so what are our chances of bouncing back straight to the PL if the unthinkable does happen? Its looking a bit grim...
Teams relegated and their final league position in the Championship the following season since 2006:
2006-2007
Sheffield United (9th)
Charlton Athletic (11th)
Watford (6th)
2007-2008
Reading (4th)
Birmingham City (2nd)
Derby County (18th)
2008-2009
Newcastle United (1st)
Middlesbrough (11th)
West Bromwich Albion (2nd)
2009-2010
Burnley (8th)
Hull City (11th)
Portsmouth (16th)
2010-2011
Birmingham City (4th)
Blackpool (5th)
West Ham United (3rd)
2011-2012
Bolton Wanderers (~10th)
Blackburn Rovers (~11th)
Wolverhampton Wndrs (~22nd)
Out of 18 teams relegated from the PL, only 4 teams have managed to return the following the season:
2007-2008 Birmingham City
2008-2009 Newcastle United
2008-2009 West Bromwich Albion
2010-2011 West Ham United
The only bit of good news is that 50% of the teams who managed an immediate return are Midlands clubs...its grasping at straws but its the only thing going in our favour if we do go down.
-
So much for the parachute payments giving relegated sides an advantage for a year or two.
-
Of those 17 different clubs only 4 are currently in the top division, 12 are in the championship and 2 are in league 1.
And Blues coming back up wasnt good news.
-
If we go down the better players will leave, it would be a hard task to get back up at the 1st attempt.
-
If we go down the better players will leave, it would be a hard task to get back up at the 1st attempt.
Villa will have better bouncebackability than the others
-
We'd get back at the first attempt under the excellent stewardship of Lerner and Faulkner.
We'd also be the only carbon neutral ground in the division, how many Championship clubs can say THAT?
-
The only bit of good news is that 50% of the teams who managed an immediate return are Midlands clubs...its grasping at straws but its the only thing going in our favour if we do go down.
I'd say that another bit of good news is that the overwhelming majority of those clubs had only been recently promoted in the first place.
And that two of the four who came straight back up were the two clubs on the list with the most experience of being in the Premier League.
-
True...but unfortunately most of our team and management have little PL experience, and its what we do on the pitch no our history as a PL club that would get us back to the PL.
-
It depends on which players will be retained by the club in teh Championship. benteke is someone likely to go, ditto ireland, N'Zog and given. Which gives us the base to push on. I'm sure that we will attract better players in a smaller pool than we're struggling to get now. We were never going to try and pay £100k per week on the likes of Samba. If Dunne miraculously gets fit then I do not think a partnership of him with Vlaar (who probably will return to Holland), or Clark/Baker is a bad one. We would need to buy in a little more experience in the Steve Sims way.
The full backs will be okay and then another midfielder or two. I think Gabby and Weimann will score plenty in the Champtionship.
-
Assuming the following:
We go down along with QPR and Reading, Cardiff, Watford and Hull go up we will have to try to bounce back competing with the following:
QPR - have spent big and if they retain Harry and there players will be strong
Reading
Leicster
Brighton
Forest
Leeds
Middlesborough
Crystal Palace
As well as potential local derby's against:
Blues, Derby, Wolves [if they stay up] which could all be tricky games
And we also have to consider Blackburn and Bolton as being potentially strong, not to mention that at least one team comes from nowhere and has a really good season and makes it to promotion or into the play offs.
Added to that if we do go down we will more than likely loose some of our better players including Benteke and possibly Bent
I put our chances at bouncing straight back at about 30%
-
If QPR go down, they'll go bust.
-
If QPR go down, they'll go bust.
No they wont , they have mega rich owners and the quality of samba , remy etc could easily be sold to recoup the outlay, qpr if they go down will walk the championship next season .
Fenandez has already stated he and harry would remain and they would be far better bet than us to get promoted if both go down.
-
I think we'll come straight back up. Not just through claret and clue spectacles but because we will be biggest club down there. We will be the biggest draw in terms of getting the right players to get us back up and our team will have another year together. It won't be easy and I'm not suggesting for one second that we will be getting 100 points plus and belting teams left rigth and centre. But we will go back up.
-
I suspect this is a discussion for early May is it not? A highly likely discussion granted sad to say...
-
Not really. We're likely to go down this season IMO. Our goal difference is a mill stone around our neck. We keep conceding late goals (conceding full stop) and any side with a defence that concedes go down. That won't change now with 11 games to go and although not donme and dusted I think we will go down.
At that stage I will be asking pelty to ask his dad and his dad's mate to resign and never return to Villa Park.
-
Not really. We're likely to go down this season IMO. Our goal difference is a mill stone around our neck. We keep conceding late goals (conceding full stop) and any side with a defence that concedes go down. That won't change now with 11 games to go and although not donme and dusted I think we will go down.
At that stage I will be asking pelty to ask his dad and his dad's mate to resign and never return to Villa Park.
Who is pelty?
-
If QPR go down, they'll go bust.
No they wont , they have mega rich owners and the quality of samba , remy etc could easily be sold to recoup the outlay, qpr if they go down will walk the championship next season .
Fenandez has already stated he and harry would remain and they would be far better bet than us to get promoted if both go down.
Having mega rich owners is only of use if they're prepared to put an endless sum of money into the club. We've no idea if that is the intention with QPR yet.
For all their recent spending, the owners might be expecting it to be paid back through the evolution of the club - ie they're maybe seeing it as an investment rather than a bit of fun.
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
-
I suspect this is a discussion for early May is it not? A highly likely discussion granted sad to say...
I think it's definatley a discussion for May. Hopefully it's a discussion which won't be needed.
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
-
I think we'll come straight back up. Not just through claret and clue spectacles but because we will be biggest club down there. We will be the biggest draw in terms of getting the right players to get us back up and our team will have another year together. It won't be easy and I'm not suggesting for one second that we will be getting 100 points plus and belting teams left rigth and centre. But we will go back up.
Weren't Leeds the biggest club down there when they got relegated, though? And look what happened to them.
Our financial situation might not be as bad as theirs was, but we're really not in a good position at the moment, and relegation would only make it worse.
Newcastle came back up because they held on to the real PL quality players they had in the squad, whilst using it as a way of getting shot of lots of dross.
Our squad contains too many players who aren't really proven in the top flight, and our better players are far less likely to want to stay around and play in the Championship.
I too think we are going to go down, and I don't for a moment buy this "successive relegations" thing some people are touting, but I think it'd be dangerous to assume we're going to swat teams from our path and storm the league - mostly because we'll have a lot of players who are actually of a championship level.
-
We saw at millwall the sort of game we can expect , the championship is a league where you have to scrap and fight your way out , i am not convinced we are going down but i think its 50/50 at the moment - time is running out though and we need to start winning .
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
Eastie likes to keep a veil of secrecy regarding he who shall not be named. :)
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
Everyone know's who Pelty is. ;)
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
Everyone know's who Pelty is. ;)
I prefer to call him todd, pelty is just a username, although respectfully i prefer to call clampy by his username rather than call him rupert. ;D
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
Everyone know's who Pelty is. ;)
I prefer to call him todd, pelty is just a usename.
Yes i know, you said earlier.
-
I think we'll come straight back up. Not just through claret and clue spectacles but because we will be biggest club down there. We will be the biggest draw in terms of getting the right players to get us back up and our team will have another year together. It won't be easy and I'm not suggesting for one second that we will be getting 100 points plus and belting teams left rigth and centre. But we will go back up.
Weren't Leeds the biggest club down there when they got relegated, though? And look what happened to them.
Our financial situation might not be as bad as theirs was, but we're really not in a good position at the moment, and relegation would only make it worse.
Newcastle came back up because they held on to the real PL quality players they had in the squad, whilst using it as a way of getting shot of lots of dross.
Our squad contains too many players who aren't really proven in the top flight, and our better players are far less likely to want to stay around and play in the Championship.
I too think we are going to go down, and I don't for a moment buy this "successive relegations" thing some people are touting, but I think it'd be dangerous to assume we're going to swat teams from our path and storm the league - mostly because we'll have a lot of players who are actually of a championship level.
I agree, we have a team that is primarily of Championship level players, as the class ones will depart, either of their own volition or the club's desire to sell them.
-
I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few QRP players have release clauses in the contracts
-
I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few QRP players have release clauses in the contracts
I would be , although maybe QPR players might have.
-
I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few QRP players have release clauses in the contracts
Yeah there's bound to be. Samba for one and Remy i would have thought.
-
Selling Samba would cost QPR a fortune. 3 and a half years left on a £100,000 contract that they’d need to pay off, on top of a huge fall in income, a need to trim the squad and small attendances that will get smaller still.
They’ve played kamikaze economics with their wage bill and will be in an even bigger financial mess next season than they are in now.
As a point, its interesting to note that the level of negativity on here is such that should the Villa go down (we won’t) then we’re doomed, but should a complete basket case of a club like QPR go down (they will) then they will walk the Championship.
-
Probably due to the fact that qpr owners are mega rich and prepared to spend big whereas our owner seems to have lost the desire.
Maybe they can afford to lose the money whereas it appears the lerner pursestrings are somewhat tighter.
-
Yes, things at QPR are so much better than Villa. Where everything is shit, shitter than shit and its never been quite so shit.
McGrath give me fucking strength.
-
As a point, its interesting to note that the level of negativity on here is such that should the Villa go down (we won’t) then we’re doomed, but should a complete basket case of a club like QPR go down (they will) then they will walk the Championship.
Another thing to consider is, would Redknapp want to manage in the Championship? I doubt it somehow, he's ego's too big.
-
Everything at villa is not shit, we are in a relegation fight and we can get out of it - we are not down yet although some seem to be giving up the fight - the next 3 games will be crucial - we can do it , i think we have a 50/50 chance .
-
As a point, its interesting to note that the level of negativity on here is such that should the Villa go down (we won’t) then we’re doomed, but should a complete basket case of a club like QPR go down (they will) then they will walk the Championship.
Another thing to consider is, would Redknapp want to manage in the Championship? I doubt it somehow, he's ego's too big.
I think hes already said he would stay , his ego may be big but his wallet is bigger - harry would be on mega money to get them up and have a better squad than most - he will stay on .
-
I think if we go down we'll struggle massively to come straight back up. That is purely down to the ownership not understanding what it takes to have a successful team at any level. If we had an owner with any footballing sense a club the size of Villa would dominate the Championship and be straight back into midtable Premier League in no time.
-
As a point, its interesting to note that the level of negativity on here is such that should the Villa go down (we won’t) then we’re doomed, but should a complete basket case of a club like QPR go down (they will) then they will walk the Championship.
Another thing to consider is, would Redknapp want to manage in the Championship? I doubt it somehow, he's ego's too big.
I think hes already said he would stay
Harry says a lot of things, not all of them true.
-
Oh and QPR are in much bigger trouble than Villa regardless of what happens this season.
-
As a point, its interesting to note that the level of negativity on here is such that should the Villa go down (we won’t) then we’re doomed, but should a complete basket case of a club like QPR go down (they will) then they will walk the Championship.
Another thing to consider is, would Redknapp want to manage in the Championship? I doubt it somehow, he's ego's too big.
I think hes already said he would stay
Harry says a lot of things, not all of them true.
Surely you not referring to uncle arry as dishonest ? He is the very epitome of a fine upstanding cockney ;D
-
Benteke and Weimann would definitely be off if we go down, and without those two we'd be lucky not to face another relegation battle into League 1. Other than maybe Guzan they're the only dependable Premier League quality players we have, and most of the rest aren't even good Championship level.
-
Benteke and Weimann would definitely be off if we go down, and without those two we'd be lucky not to face another relegation battle into League 1. Other than maybe Guzan they're the only dependable Premier League quality players we have, and most of the rest aren't even good Championship level.
I think Weimann would stay.
I cannot see us coming straight back up if we go down.
-
Don't agree Risso. I think Weimann would stay. I don't think his career has progressed sufficiently for him to walk into another Prem team. He's only juststarting out on an international career so i do not think he's at the stage where walking out is an option. i think we'll start with Weimann and Gabby up top and buy players to feed them.
As for paulie leeds did sttract players but because of their debt they had to sell quickly and that destabilised their team. We are not in the same position/. Also, if a player had a level playing field choice between Villa and Leeds it is likely that they would choose us.
-
So not only have we written off the final quarter of this season we're already doomed for evermore!
Besides, Why list just the relegated sides from just the last six seasons? The season before that Sunderland and Blues came straight back and Albion came close but lost in the play-off final!
-
I was thinking the other day, are we actually a bit like Middlesbrough?
Enthusiastic owner, invests decent sums of money, then decides to stop, resulting in a prolonged stay in the Championship?
-
Maybe this thread should be re-opened in may (hopefully not).
-
No, we're nothing like Middlesbrough. i'd say he was more an owner who had a go at it and cut his cloth accordingly. Middlesbrough's history is not one of nearly every season spent in the top flight. Our example is a badly designed business plan of throwing everything at the top 4 and finding out that the manager you trusted to do it was largely wasteful, thus leading to the inexplicable sudden decline. Instaed of doing it gradually we have decided to do it over a couple of seasons and we are suffering because of it.
had he been the chancellor we would have strung him up by the balls. as it is we'll blame Houllier and Lambert instead. he's sold his interest in Cleveland so there is no excuse not to spend a little bit more to make sure we are safe this season ahead of the next cash injection from TV rights.
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
Everyone know's who Pelty is. ;)
I prefer to call him todd, pelty is just a username, although respectfully i prefer to call clampy by his username rather than call him rupert. ;D
From now on I think I'd like to call you Gladys.
Is that ok Gladys?
-
Newcastle are the only club on that list who could even closely be considered to be of our size and stature.
We won't lose many from this squad, other than the ones we'd want to go anyway, I reckon there is fight and determination in the squad and they will have bonded better than any in recent memory.
But then I'm an optimist.
-
Of those listed who came straight back up, with the exception of SHA, they should all be Prem teams anyway as we should be. Although you could argue that the 3 who went down last season should also be yet they are all struggling.
It won't be easy - last time we were down there our home form was poor as teams came to Villa Park and almost relished the occasion. Whether that would still be the case I don't know. The teams listed as promotion rivals and local derbies would make it tough
Getting a winning mentality is the key and it is not in the mindset of our players. We don't look up for it even against the underdog.
-
Benteke and Weimann would definitely be off if we go down, and without those two we'd be lucky not to face another relegation battle into League 1. Other than maybe Guzan they're the only dependable Premier League quality players we have, and most of the rest aren't even good Championship level.
Benteke would go, Addi wouldn't. Gabby I am not too sure about, the rest? Not bothered.
-
Benteke and Weimann would definitely be off if we go down, and without those two we'd be lucky not to face another relegation battle into League 1. Other than maybe Guzan they're the only dependable Premier League quality players we have, and most of the rest aren't even good Championship level.
Benteke would go, Addi wouldn't. Gabby I am not too sure about, the rest? Not bothered.
In your opinion !
-
Eastie, he's the General's son.
Thanks pauline ;)
Tsk. You knew all along.
Everyone know's who Pelty is. ;)
I prefer to call him todd, pelty is just a username, although respectfully i prefer to call clampy by his username rather than call him rupert. ;D
From now on I think I'd like to call you Gladys.
Is that ok Gladys?
Watever floats your boat gertrude.
-
Benteke and Weimann would definitely be off if we go down, and without those two we'd be lucky not to face another relegation battle into League 1. Other than maybe Guzan they're the only dependable Premier League quality players we have, and most of the rest aren't even good Championship level.
Benteke would go, Addi wouldn't. Gabby I am not too sure about, the rest? Not bothered.
In your opinion !
Surely his opinion about whether he's bothered or not could be taken as fact? ;)
-
Benteke and Weimann would definitely be off if we go down, and without those two we'd be lucky not to face another relegation battle into League 1. Other than maybe Guzan they're the only dependable Premier League quality players we have, and most of the rest aren't even good Championship level.
Benteke would go, Addi wouldn't. Gabby I am not too sure about, the rest? Not bothered.
In your opinion !
Surely his opinion about whether he's bothered or not could be taken as fact? ;)
I mean the benteke would go , andi wouldnt comment - if another club came in for weimann offering him far more money and a chance of staying in the premier then he would be a fool not to consider it , if we stay up i think he will stay .
-
I think there's a good chance Weimann would go if we went down. As Risso says other than Benteke, Weimann and Guzan the squad is not particularly special and would struggle and that's before Bent, Vlaar and N'Zog leave.
-
Of course Weimann would leave if another club came in for him. For a start, we couldn't afford to pay him a decent new contract amount if we get relegated, and he'll want to stay in the Premier League to enhance his reputation and international chances. Lerner would virtually shove him out the door anyway just get to some funds back in.
-
I really don't think Weimann would go and I reckon we'd hang onto at least (if not both) N'Zog and Vlaar.
There is no doubt in my mind that, should be happen to go down, we will easily bounce back and return in far better shape than we are now.
The only sad thing for me about relegation would be the loss of Benteke so soon after he joined. He is frankly the most exciting player I've seen at Villa, since Doug personally introduced a young Trinidadian lad into the team, after spotting him doing keepy-uppies on a mud-baked Port of Spain pitch.
-
It's very depressing that our club is now being run like a high profile car boot sale. There's a distinct sense we're just selling for the sake of it with no actual sensible plan on how to grow and improve.
-
Barry , milner, downing , young all wanted to leave and we got good money for them- who have we sold for the sake of it that was worth keeping bar them?
-
It's very depressing that our club is now being run like a high profile car boot sale. There's a distinct sense we're just selling for the sake of it with no actual sensible plan on how to grow and improve.
What makes you think that? The last high profile player to go was Downing and we got more than we should have for him. Weimann has'nt gone anywhere yet.
-
Of all the relegated sides mentioned, only Newcastle are comparible in size to Aston Villa. Although our spending power will be greatly reduced, we'll still be able to bring in players capable of getting the club promoted.
-
I do think that other than QPR we are the most poorly run club in the league. Given the size of Aston Villa compared to most of the teams around us and above us, it's unbelievable how we're in this utter mess. We've been cutting costs for over 2 years and there doesn't appear to be an end in sight. We don't have many high earners left and should easily have a sustainable wage bill. Our ownership truly is utterly inept, and I don't see any hope.
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
-
Selling players is one thing - how, for example, were we ever going to hold on to Milner when Man City (big money and ambitious) came in for him?
How were we going to hold on to Young when Man United came in for him? Or Barry when he went to Man City as the first in the list of big money players?
Selling players you want to keep is horrible, but sometimes - not all the times - you don't have much of a choice. I wouldn't want us to go out of our way to pimp our players to cash in, as once you start doing that, you're sending out a worrying signal about your ambition, but the flip side of that is that selling players when you have to, while they still have high value, can be a good thing if you then reinvest wisely.
Look at Spurs. They sell their best players pretty regularly too, the likes of Modric and Bebatov, and no doubt it will be Bale this summer.
The difference is that they look at their squad over a much longer term than we do, in that they have someone in their club who is charged with the general maintenance of the squad, ensuring contracts are renewed at the cleverest time (how often do Spurs get into the mess Arsenal do with players with just a year left on their contract, for example?).
They also invest the money they make in sales pretty wisely, there is basically a certain continuity in their squad, and the value of it is managed very cleverly.
We, on the other hand, have about as much continuity as the manager in place at any one time. As I mentioned elsewhere the other day, look at the number of players we've seen walk away for nothing, having piled money in to buy them in the first place, and then to keep them.
The money that Lerner has invested has been managed abysmally. Sometimes it has been the fault of the manager employed at any one time, but at others, it was clearly the lack of football nous beyond the manager that has led to such short termism, and a horrific spunking away of money.
Maybe the focus on youth we now have is part of a strategy Lerner has put in place to learn from his mistakes. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but above all, I just hope we've learned something from the frittering away of tens of millions of pounds in recent years.
-
Barry , milner, downing , young all wanted to leave and we got good money for them- who have we sold for the sake of it that was worth keeping bar them?
Gary Cahill, and in hindsight James Collins.
-
Barry , milner, downing , young all wanted to leave and we got good money for them- who have we sold for the sake of it that was worth keeping bar them?
Gary Cahill, and in hindsight James Collins.
Cahill wanted to go as sadly mon didnt rate him enough, and collins is not good enough.the players we would like to sell are probably the ones nobody wants to buy.
-
It's very depressing that our club is now being run like a high profile car boot sale. There's a distinct sense we're just selling for the sake of it with no actual sensible plan on how to grow and improve.
What makes you think that? The last high profile player to go was Downing and we got more than we should have for him. Weimann has'nt gone anywhere yet.
It's more that when we've sold we haven't really replaced with anywhere near the required quality. The quality of our squad has taken a massively alarming slump on the whole in the last couple of years.
-
Selling players is one thing - how, for example, were we ever going to hold on to Milner when Man City (big money and ambitious) came in for him?
How were we going to hold on to Young when Man United came in for him? Or Barry when he went to Man City as the first in the list of big money players?
Selling players you want to keep is horrible, but sometimes - not all the times - you don't have much of a choice. I wouldn't want us to go out of our way to pimp our players to cash in, as once you start doing that, you're sending out a worrying signal about your ambition, but the flip side of that is that selling players when you have to, while they still have high value, can be a good thing if you then reinvest wisely.
Look at Spurs. They sell their best players pretty regularly too, the likes of Modric and Bebatov, and no doubt it will be Bale this summer.
The difference is that they look at their squad over a much longer term than we do, in that they have someone in their club who is charged with the general maintenance of the squad, ensuring contracts are renewed at the cleverest time (how often do Spurs get into the mess Arsenal do with players with just a year left on their contract, for example?).
They also invest the money they make in sales pretty wisely, there is basically a certain continuity in their squad, and the value of it is managed very cleverly.
We, on the other hand, have about as much continuity as the manager in place at any one time. As I mentioned elsewhere the other day, look at the number of players we've seen walk away for nothing, having piled money in to buy them in the first place, and then to keep them.
The money that Lerner has invested has been managed abysmally. Sometimes it has been the fault of the manager employed at any one time, but at others, it was clearly the lack of football nous beyond the manager that has led to such short termism, and a horrific spunking away of money.
Maybe the focus on youth we now have is part of a strategy Lerner has put in place to learn from his mistakes. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but above all, I just hope we've learned something from the frittering away of tens of millions of pounds in recent years.
Excellent post.
The problem with players like Harewood and Heskey was not transfer value, but wages. So what was probably viewed as a short term signings became a longterm financial burden as other sides would not pay them what we were, so they stayed. Fee wise during the MON boom years we only spent big on younger players, which we then made money on, with the exceptions being Delph and Davies. What then happened is the way we re-invested that money wasn't good enough, mainly down to the managerial upheaval we've had since.
In truth, we've probably gone to the other extreme now with Lambert. What is probably needed is a middle point where we use scouting to get young talent from the lower leagues and abroad fit them around a base of carefully selected experienced PL players.
-
Barry , milner, downing , young all wanted to leave and we got good money for them- who have we sold for the sake of it that was worth keeping bar them?
Gary Cahill, and in hindsight James Collins.
Cahill wanted to go as sadly mon didnt rate him enough, and collins is not good enough.
The defense this season would have been better with Collins in it, and we would not have conceded as many late goals.
-
Nobody had too many complaints about Collins leaving but maybe in hindsight it might have been worth keeping him or Cuellar for another season to help Vlaar settle in and take the the pressure off Clark and Baker but then again i suppose that's what Dunne was meant to do.
Oh and a very good post Paulie.
-
There have been too many high earning under performing players at villa over the years and the managers have not been able to get them to perform how they did at previous clubs.
-
Barry , milner, downing , young all wanted to leave and we got good money for them- who have we sold for the sake of it that was worth keeping bar them?
Gary Cahill, and in hindsight James Collins.
Cahill wanted to go as sadly mon didnt rate him enough, and collins is not good enough.
The defense this season would have been better with Collins in it, and we would not have conceded as many late goals.
I refer you to the answer by my esteemed colleague clampy- dunnes injury has limited the options , but that should have been addressed in january without doubt.
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
Here's a clue for you then. Anybody in the Premier League next season is going to have an awful lot more money than those teams that aren't.
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
Here's a clue for you then. Anybody in the Premier League next season is going to have an awful lot more money than those teams that aren't.
There is never a good time to get relegated, but this year is without a doubt a particularly bad one to choose to do it.
The lack of CB investment in January is a sign of them not caring too much, of not having much money, or of being totally blind to what is happening. I don't think I like any of those options.
I've discounted them believing we didn't need to strengthen, as some levels of stupidity I'd put beyond even them.
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
Here's a clue for you then. Anybody in the Premier League next season is going to have an awful lot more money than those teams that aren't.
There is never a good time to get relegated, but this year is without a doubt a particularly bad one to choose to do it.
The lack of CB investment in January is a sign of them not caring too much, of not having much money, or of being totally blind to what is happening. I don't think I like any of those options.
I've discounted them believing we didn't need to strengthen, as some levels of stupidity I'd put beyond even them.
When you say them are you including lambert or not?
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
Here's a clue for you then. Anybody in the Premier League next season is going to have an awful lot more money than those teams that aren't.
true
but the problem with football clubs is no matter how much money you throw at them they still cant live within there means
some clubs will have already spent the money on debt before they even get it
either way most of the extra millions will only find its way into players pockets, there wont be any clubs washed with money and no debts, at the end of it all i'd wager that clubs will be in more debt than they are now
this is not aargumentive post against yours which i agreed with, just a making a point that more money will count for nothing really as clubs will still waste it alll away
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
Here's a clue for you then. Anybody in the Premier League next season is going to have an awful lot more money than those teams that aren't.
There is never a good time to get relegated, but this year is without a doubt a particularly bad one to choose to do it.
The lack of CB investment in January is a sign of them not caring too much, of not having much money, or of being totally blind to what is happening. I don't think I like any of those options.
I've discounted them believing we didn't need to strengthen, as some levels of stupidity I'd put beyond even them.
When you say them are you including lambert or not?
If he was the one who didn't think we needed to strengthen, then yes.
-
Maybe John, but they'll be looking to waste it on the likes of Benteke and Weimann. Would Weimann for example, stay with us in the Championship for say, £20K a week, or move to the likes of the newly minted Fulham or West Brom for £40K a week? People are starting to notice him, and other teams will be thinking that a player getting into double figures in a poor team like ours will do even better in a stronger side.
-
Weimann is also the only genuinely quality youngster we've produced and there's a decent chance he'll be off, so the investing in youth argument is nonsense.
-
If we go down (sadly it's beginning to look more likely by the week) then we need to get it right in the summer if we are going to be competitive in the Championship. Unfortunately I just don't think we have the right people at the club to put plans in place for that transition.
-
To be honest, other than ourselves, QPR, the Albion and possibly Man United, I have no idea what sort of shape other clubs finances are in.
Here's a clue for you then. Anybody in the Premier League next season is going to have an awful lot more money than those teams that aren't.
true
but the problem with football clubs is no matter how much money you throw at them they still cant live within there means
some clubs will have already spent the money on debt before they even get it
either way most of the extra millions will only find its way into players pockets, there wont be any clubs washed with money and no debts, at the end of it all i'd wager that clubs will be in more debt than they are now
this is not aargumentive post against yours which i agreed with, just a making a point that more money will count for nothing really as clubs will still waste it alll away
I've always felt this. if the TV revenue goes up by 50%, then agents will be looking for 50% more in contract negotiations and selling clubs will be asking for £15m for what was previously a £10m player. It may take time for it to filter through, but it'll happen!
-
The lack of CB investment in January is a sign of them not caring too much, of not having much money, or of being totally blind to what is happening. I don't think I like any of those options.
Can we definitely say that the CBs are to blame for some of our woes? Does the midfield not do enough? Do even the forwards not do enough to track back and clear the danger? If you constantly pummel the CBs then sure they'll make mistakes and let goals in - most defences will but if the rest of the team are not pitching in then it'll make things a lot worse.
Don't get me wrong, I would have loved Samba to come in (always rated him - he's a beast!!) but maybe this isn't the only position we are light in...
Maybe its Lamberts tactics that are exposed (aka not bad on the counter but duff when defending).... dunno lots of questions and not a lot of answers.
If we are to go down, not looking forward to Leicester/Brum/Wolves 'local' derbies... very tedious as they were in the Premier League.
-
The lack of experience not coming in during January was baffling at the time and still baffling now.
-
If we go down (sadly it's beginning to look more likely by the week) then we need to get it right in the summer if we are going to be competitive in the Championship. Unfortunately I just don't think we have the right people at the club to put plans in place for that transition.
I think it looked less likely after Everton and West Ham, but then more likely affer Arsenal. Expect a lot of that over the next 11 games!
-
The lack of experience not coming in during January was baffling at the time and still baffling now.
Ain't that the truth
-
When you say baffling it is on the face of it, but if you think that experience costs and we didn't have the money/wouldn't spend it, then may be not so much.
-
When you say baffling it is on the face of it, but if you think that experience costs and we didn't have the money/wouldn't spend it, then may be not so much.
I suppose it depends on who was available and how much they wanted. That we may never know but bearing in mind the possible cost of going down, it was a hell of a gamble not to bring in no centre havles at all.
-
I have a feeling that with dunne approaching returning to training he perhaps decided to go with dunne but sods law dunne then broke down again right at the end of the window - if so it was an expensive gamble that could cost us dear.
-
When you say baffling it is on the face of it, but if you think that experience costs and we didn't have the money/wouldn't spend it, then may be not so much.
And how much money will be available in the summer if we go down? I think that the figure will not reflect what will be required to replace the players that leave. Those who think only one or two will leave are, IMO, living in cloud cuckoo land. The likes of saints, Fulham, west ham, etc if they are in the PL next year, will soon be circling round our players, offering us peanuts but the chance of playing PL football to them. What do you think their response will be?
I am very afraid that if we are in the Championship next year we will be making up the numbers in mid table with a very different set up to those in the squad now.
-
So who in The Championship has a brilliant squad, packed with household names? Villa will have to adjust according to their means, but it doesn't necessarily mean they can't complete in that division.
-
Well the present squad were not good enough at Millwall who are an average Championship side and were not good enough at Bradford. Just saying I do not think that, if relegated, we would walk straight through the Championship as there is some decent teams in there who are also battling trying to get up.
-
Well the present squad were not good enough at Millwall who are an average Championship side and were not good enough at Bradford.
But that doesn't mean that they have better teams than we currently do. Anymore than it means that we are better than Liverpool or Swansea just because they lost to us.
-
All of the teams in that list have one thing in common.
They are not the Villa. Bollocks to them
-
The lack of experience not coming in during January was baffling at the time and still baffling now.
The young kids were crying out for some experience around them so who did we sign?, 2 players who`ve never kicked a ball in the Premiership, absolutely frikkin mystyfiying.
-
If we go down (sadly it's beginning to look more likely by the week) then we need to get it right in the summer if we are going to be competitive in the Championship. Unfortunately I just don't think we have the right people at the club to put plans in place for that transition.
I think it looked less likely after Everton and West Ham, but then more likely affer Arsenal. Expect a lot of that over the next 11 games!
Agree John, but just when it seemed like we might have had a bit of momentum after the West Ham game, we go and suffer a morale sapping defeat at Arsenal. Another one of those against Man City and we're going in to our two make or break games on a downwards curve (just like the Wigan and Southampton games).
-
When you say baffling it is on the face of it, but if you think that experience costs and we didn't have the money/wouldn't spend it, then may be not so much.
And how much money will be available in the summer if we go down?
We should be looking at around £30m from selling Benteke, Bent and N'Zogbia alone, so hopefully there will be some money available.
-
Well the present squad were not good enough at Millwall who are an average Championship side and were not good enough at Bradford. Just saying I do not think that, if relegated, we would walk straight through the Championship as there is some decent teams in there who are also battling trying to get up.
True, but again with the right squad management I think we could do it.
I would look at playing a 4-4-2 and keeping:
GK - Guzan / Marshall / Siegrist
RB - Lowton / Herd / Lichaj
LB - Bennett / Stevens
CB - Vlaar or Dunne / Clark / Baker
RW - Albrighton / Holman
CM - Westwood / Delph / Sylla / El Ahmadi / Gardner / Bannan
LW - ?
ST - Gabby / Weimann / Bowery
On top of that lot, I would a CB who is experienced at that level, a physical presence up front and two out and out wingers. The money we got from the players being sold would easily cover those purchases with some to spare.
I have to say that just going through that is a really depressing thought.
-
Personally I think the standard of football overall in the premiership has been very poor this season and i don't think there's too much difference between the bottom third of the prem and the top third of the championship. If we go down and flog the better players, then the gap-year tour of the less exalted footballing hotbeds in the UK could become a bit more permanent
-
Personally I think the standard of football overall in the premiership has been very poor this season and i don't think there's too much difference between the bottom third of the prem and the top third of the championship.
Then style of play is quite different Greg.
In the Championship there is far more hoofball and i've lost count of the amount of turgid games i've seen with a lack of clear cut chances.
-
I think Greg has a point though, whilst you're right RVWGA, the way that promoted clubs are managing to hang on for a season or two, think Norwich, Baggies, West Ham, Swansea, Stoke for example means the gulf isn't that wide, except right at the top.
-
Impossible really to predict how we will do if we do go down as the squad could be very different come august - lets hope we never have to find out.
-
how depressing Albrighton and Holman in the championship
-
On top of that lot, I would a CB who is experienced at that level,
you reckon? what about one last January when it was more important ;/
-
Firmly of the opinion that if we do go down we are in for a big shock.
Our lot will get torn to pieces in the Championship, just not strong enough physically.
-
Anyway accounts fans, today's the big day! Assuming they're lodged on time of course.....
-
Anyway accounts fans, today's the big day! Assuming they're lodged on time of course.....
Which period do these cover?
-
Anyway accounts fans, today's the big day! Assuming they're lodged on time of course.....
Which period do these cover?
1986-1987 i think.
edit. My apologies, i thought Risso was talking about Small Heath. I was right probably though.
-
Anyway accounts fans, today's the big day! Assuming they're lodged on time of course.....
Which period do these cover?
1986-1987 i think.
Morning clamps, yes lets see how depressing todays accounts are - braced for more bad news.
-
I love Accounts Day me. Knowing us the wage bill has gone up not down.
-
I love Accounts Day me. Knowing us the wage bill has gone up not down.
You should pitch that idea to Jim White on Sky Sports News Greg.
-
I love Accounts Day me. Knowing us the wage bill has gone up not down.
You should pitch that idea to Jim White on Sky Sports News Greg.
What a great idea for people who can't be bothered to read them but would love to hear them shouted at them.
-
Anyway accounts fans, today's the big day! Assuming they're lodged on time of course.....
(http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif)
-
I love Accounts Day me. Knowing us the wage bill has gone up not down.
You should pitch that idea to Jim White on Sky Sports News Greg.
Nah. In-house subscription-only Villa Accounts TV Channel on Sky I reckon
-
Firmly of the opinion that if we do go down we are in for a big shock.
Our lot will get torn to pieces in the Championship, just not strong enough physically.
This is what I am very afraid of. How many people have said that we are outmuscled in matches - well it would be even worse if we drop.
-
Well you can loan lots of players in, Watford aren't doing too badly on that front!
-
It's quite scary looking at how far some clubs fall. Plymouth at the minute for example. Granted they're not a big club with a big pedigree by any stretch, but they've gone from fairly solid in the championship to propping up the entire football league. Just shows how quickly you can plummet. Obviously finance had a big part in that.
Though our financial position has improved somewhat, if we go down that will mean very little given the hit we'll take. We'll certainly need to start selling our prized assets. May even lose a few players like Delph who might have a few suitors. Westwood may have caught the eye already, though I think he'd be happy enough in The Championship given we got him from L2.
Coming back up depends on how Randy deals with going down. He can sell off the bigger earners who will be easy to shift. Benteke should cover a lot of money.
Or if he deems it necessary, to remain financially stable he might just have a firesale. We wouldn't be the first. If that's the case we'll struggle to come back up straight away. You'd also hope that he doesn't reduce the efficiency of the youth development and pull money out of that. Our kids coming in could well be the difference between stabilising or just sinking further.
Ideal world we'll go into next season with a front two of Wiemann and Aggy if we're down. Fonz and Bowery as cover should do okay. There's a couple of promising lads who seems to be doing well too, but I'm sure others will know more about them than me.
-
We are Aston Villa...if we go down, the better Championship and fringe Premier League players will want to play for us and get us back up. On the other hand, if the club are not prepared to pay the wages then we'll have to get used to life down there.
-
We are Aston Villa...if we go down, the better Championship and fringe Premier League players will want to play for us and get us back up. On the other hand, if the club are not prepared to pay the wages then we'll have to get used to life down there.
Spot on. Has a bigger club than Villa ever been relegated? I know Utd and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have been down there, but were they that big at the time?
-
We are Aston Villa...if we go down, the better Championship and fringe Premier League players will want to play for us and get us back up. On the other hand, if the club are not prepared to pay the wages then we'll have to get used to life down there.
Spot on. Has a bigger club than Villa ever been relegated? I know Utd and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have been down there, but were they that big at the time?
The biggest club in the world went down in 1936.
-
We are Aston Villa...if we go down, the better Championship and fringe Premier League players will want to play for us and get us back up. On the other hand, if the club are not prepared to pay the wages then we'll have to get used to life down there.
Spot on. Has a bigger club than Villa ever been relegated? I know Utd and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have been down there, but were they that big at the time?
Man Utd - 6 years from European Cup winners to relegation. Only one year longer than our fall from the top.
-
I think we'd be losing play off finalists, typical of us.
The guide would be West Ham imo as there squad was similar to ours when they went down in 10/11, mixture of inconsistant and overpaid internationals and plenty of youth. When they went down, they signed adequate championship players in O'Neill and Taylor and Big Sam also signed a million forwards.
It seems if you want to get promoted from the championship, you just sign as many strikers as possible as no one can really defend down there. See Cardiff and Leicester.