Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on February 05, 2013, 12:20:13 PM
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What was the score in the game which mathematically relegated us in 1987?
PM me with the answer by 12 noon tomorrow, Wednesday.
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got it.
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If I'm wrong I'll be having words with my dad tomorrow!
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got it.
Bollocks, wrong answer !
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Nobody's given the right answer yet. Everyone who's entered can try again and the deadline's now 4pm.
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Edit
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Sorted
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There's been a bit of a glitch in this one, with some conflicting information meaning one of two answers is right. I'll try to find out and confirm it.
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What are the two possibles dave?
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By my calculations, it comes down to two matches played on 4th May....depends which finished first.
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By my calculations, it comes down to two matches played on 4th May....depends which finished first.
Can anyone remember being glued to the radio and hearing which full time came in first? Good luck with that Dave!
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Was it a game involving Villa?
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Is the Grandstand teleprinter available on YouTube?
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After we lost at arsenal on 2nd may 87 - we still had a mathematical chance of staying up but on the last but one game against sheff wed. we had to make about 5 goals up on oxford and hope they lost along with man city, charlton and leicester who i think all had far better goal differences as well.
From european champions to relegation in just 5 years - i remember ron saunders saying on brmb afterwards "well someone's really done a good job."
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After we lost at arsenal on 2nd may 87 - we still had a mathematical chance of staying up but on the last but one game against sheff wed. we had to make about 5 goals up on oxford and hope they lost along with man city, charlton and leicester who i think all had far better goal differences as well.
From european champions to relegation in just 5 years - i remember ron saunders saying on brmb afterwards "well someone's really done a good job."
Table on the morning of Monday May 4th (all with two games left, bottom three went down)...
18th Oxford Utd 42pts (-26 GD)
19th Leicester 40pts (-22 GD)
20th Charlton 38pts (-14 GD)
21st Man City 36pts (-20 GD)
22nd Villa 36pts (-31 GD)
3pm kick-offs
Villa 1-2 Sheff Wed
Man City 1-0 Forest
Newcastle 0-3 Charlton
7.45pm
Leicester 1-1 Coventry
Tuesday
Luton 2-3 Oxford
You could argue that if Charlton finished a minute before us we were relegated, but our defeat meant we'd have been down anyway even if Charlton lost at Newcastle.
We went down with Man City and Leicester and fourth bottom Charlton survived by beating Leeds in a play-off at Small Heath.
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HAs anyone suggested 0-3 v Spurs in August 1986?
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Table on the morning of Monday May 4th (all with two games left, bottom three went down)...
18th Oxford Utd 42pts (-26 GD)
19th Leicester 40pts (-22 GD)
20th Charlton 38pts (-14 GD)
21st Man City 36pts (-20 GD)
22nd Villa 36pts (-31 GD)
didn't the bottom 4 go down as it was the first start at trimming the top division to 20 clubs ?
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HAs anyone suggested 0-3 v Spurs in August 1986?
wasn't this followed by losing at wimbledon ( who had just come up ) ?
we should have been fearing the worst then !
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If charlton lost at newcastle they would have been 2 points ahead of us still so therefore by winning at newcastle that result sent us down surely.
That win put them 5 clear with one game left whereas and man city could mathematically be caught on goal diff however unlikely.
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We went down with Man City and Leicester and fourth bottom Charlton survived by beating Leeds in a play-off at Small Heath.
sorry dequip - i didnt read that bit - wasnt that play off a replay after the 2 legged affair ended level (no penalties of course in those days)
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Table on the morning of Monday May 4th (all with two games left, bottom three went down)...
18th Oxford Utd 42pts (-26 GD)
19th Leicester 40pts (-22 GD)
20th Charlton 38pts (-14 GD)
21st Man City 36pts (-20 GD)
22nd Villa 36pts (-31 GD)
didn't the bottom 4 go down as it was the first start at trimming the top division to 20 clubs ?
As De Kuip said 4th from bottom went into a play off, but it didn't really affect this question. Before the 41st games we could still have overhauled Oxford on GD and the rest on points. By that evening we could no longer achieve even 4th from bottom, so assuming Dave means which of our games was the one that sealed the drop, I think it would be 1-2 at home to Sheffield Wednesday.
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If charlton lost at newcastle they would have been 2 points ahead of us still so therefore by winning at newcastle that result sent us down surely.
That win put them 5 clear with one game left whereas and man city could mathematically be caught on goal diff however unlikely.
No because even if Charlton had lost our own defeat meant we couldn't have caught Leicester, who were four clear even before their evening game.
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My 1st answer was 1-2 v Sheffield wed but when dave said nobody was right and to all have another try I went for Newcastle 0 charlton 3.
With the charlton result coming while we were still 1-2 down it was possible we could score in injury time and draw thereby mathematically still catching leicester , but the charlton result meant even if we drew were down.
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HAs anyone suggested 0-3 v Spurs in August 1986?
Or the day Graham Turner was appointed?
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HAs anyone suggested 0-3 v Spurs in August 1986?
Or the day Graham Turner was appointed?
Or the day Doug Ellis returned?
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The day Bowyer picked Gary Shaw up.
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You gotts hand it to the original McDuff contributed to 2 relegations in one season
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You gotts hand it to the original McDuff contributed to 2 relegations in one season
As did another manager but we forget that.
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Any decision yet on the quiz dave?
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Are we to have Quiz III?
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How about a small prize for both possible answers?
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It's been, to put it mildly, a bit of a balls-up. Quiz III to follow.
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It's been, to put it mildly, a bit of a balls-up. Quiz III to follow.
What was the outcome then dave?
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It's been, to put it mildly, a bit of a balls-up. Quiz III to follow.
I think we need an investigation by OFCOM, or OFWAT or OFFSIDE or one of those OFF quangos!
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It's been, to put it mildly, a bit of a balls-up. Quiz III to follow.
How very appropriate given the season so far and the fact we have thirteen games left.
It's been, to put it mildly, a bit of a balls-up. Season part III to follow.
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My 1st answer was 1-2 v Sheffield wed but when dave said nobody was right and to all have another try I went for Newcastle 0 charlton 3.
With the charlton result coming while we were still 1-2 down it was possible we could score in injury time and draw thereby mathematically still catching leicester , but the charlton result meant even if we drew were down.
I don't see how the Charlton result was relevant. We lost to Wednesday, which meant we couldn't catch Leicester or Oxford and would finish in the bottom 3 regardless of other results.
On the same basis of your argument that we could have drawn after the Charlton result came in, we could also have scored twice and won. That would have left us within reach of both Charlton and Leicester, and therefore we were not mathemtatically relegated until our result with Wednesday was finalised. The simple fact is that losing to Wednesday sealed our fate.
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I vaguely remember being at the Sheff W game and being gutted because we couldn't even win when we had to. It was only later when I realised that we would have gonedown anyway. So, whichever that other team was that I forget is your answer. Hope that helps.
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I read in someones book that relegation was accepted after the home defeat to sheff w even though we were not technically relegated at the time.
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Did you give them the book back afterwards?
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I read in someones book that relegation was accepted after the home defeat to sheff w even though we were not technically relegated at the time.
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Yes we were- after the sheff weds game we were 5 behind charlton and 4 behind leicester with one game left- if thats not technically relegated what is?
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Perhaps others played their game later in the day than us? Statto tells you the date but not the kick-off time. I'm assuming it was a bank holiday Monday in which case they often kick off at funny times.
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No we were down at ten to 5.
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Just checked again. We were four points adrift of survival before our penultimate game, meaning that defeat would definitely condemn us to relegation regardless of results elsewhere.
We did lose, so it was our result that relegated us, nobody else's. Lost at home to Sheffield Wednesday.
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Have we decided on an answer yet?