Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: neo_Villan on February 04, 2013, 06:33:12 PM
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It came up in a discussion I was having about our defence. Just who was our last centre-back with genuine pace?
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Not sure of real genuine pace, but speed of thought is more important.
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Probably Curtis Davies
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
Thanks for your contribution Roger Irrelevant.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
Still haven't forgiven him for Vienna.
Whilst watching Baker run through treacle scares the crap out of me, as others have alluded to, pace isn't everything when it comes to defending. Look at McGrath, Laursen and Mellberg - none of them were particularly pacey but they knew where to be and when to be there.
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You're not alone Ad@m, but I think too many judge Davies on the 4 or 5 shockers he had for us and conveniently forget he had quite a few good games for us too - more, dare I say, than I've ever seen Clark or Baker have. I don't think anyone thinks pace is all you need, but it's important in the premier league. Clark lacks not only pace but strength and positional nous as well. If he were quicker he might be able to recover from some his many mistakes a bit more often.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
Thanks for your contribution Roger Irrelevant.
and yet you think Davies is a Premier League quality centre half.
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You're not alone Ad@m, but I think too many judge Davies on the 4 or 5 shockers he had for us and conveniently forget he had quite a few good games for us too - more, dare I say, than I've ever seen Clark or Baker have. I don't think anyone thinks pace is all you need, but it's important in the premier league. Clark lacks not only pace but strength and positional nous as well. If he were quicker he might be able to recover from some his many mistakes a bit more often.
Yes but Clark and Baker cost us next to nothing, whereas at 8m (or whatever) you'd hope to be buying a player considerably better than Clark, Baker or Davies.
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Dunne's deceptively quick imo.
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Mellberg and Laursen.
Beye was pretty quick as well, but never really got the opportunity to play CH.
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I'd go Mellberg, certainly when he arrived.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
Still haven't forgiven him for Vienna.
Whilst watching Baker run through treacle scares the crap out of me, as others have alluded to, pace isn't everything when it comes to defending. Look at McGrath, Laursen and Mellberg - none of them were particularly pacey but they knew where to be and when to be there.
Mellberg was quick.
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John Sleeuwenhoek. Built like a greyhound ran like whippet. Great lad. Martin Keown was quick but I air brush him from my memory because he has airbrushed Villa from his.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
Still haven't forgiven him for Vienna.
Rich Kids with Glen Matlock was much worse.
Yes Curtis was the last one with pace, not sure if he's still as fast.
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Curtis Davies is quick, and was very good at times next to Laursen. It all fell apart when Laursen got injured and he was asked to be the primary CB and he just became marginally better than a pub player
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As an aside, I believe the fastest recorded player was ex-postman John Williams from Cradley Heath. Played for Swansea and Albion and could do 100m in less than 11 seconds.
Also wrote the theme from the Deer Hunter.
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Curtis Davies is quick, and was very good at times next to Laursen. It all fell apart when Laursen got injured and he was asked to be the primary CB and he just became marginally better than a pub player
I'd still have Davies in our side at the minute. That's how bad we look.
I'd say Mellberg was the last decent and quick CH. He'd still roast Clark, Vlaar and Baker in a foot race even now I reckon.
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Curtis Davies is quick, and was very good at times next to Laursen. It all fell apart when Laursen got injured and he was asked to be the primary CB and he just became marginally better than a pub player
I'd still have Davies in our side at the minute. That's how bad we look.
I'd say Mellberg was the last decent and quick CH. He'd still roast Clark, Vlaar and Baker in a foot race even now I reckon.
McGrath was deceptively quick, and even quicker was his mind. The great man is sorely missed.
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Curtis Davies is quick, and was very good at times next to Laursen. It all fell apart when Laursen got injured and he was asked to be the primary CB and he just became marginally better than a pub player
I'd still have Davies in our side at the minute. That's how bad we look.
I'd say Mellberg was the last decent and quick CH. He'd still roast Clark, Vlaar and Baker in a foot race even now I reckon.
McGrath was deceptively quick, and even quicker was his mind. The great man is sorely missed.
Yeah. McGrath was known for his pace before his knees began going. He could shift when he wanted, but had to pick his moments. But yeah with his mind he was able to pick the right moments to shift through the gears. If we could get a defender half as good as him we'd be in much better shape.
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Could we sign that lad from the Ravens who caught a big kick-off and then ran through everybody from one end to the other, last night on the Superbowl?
11 seconds, apparently. One end to the other. That's Olympic timing.
Ball at his feet instead of in his arms, no problem after a few days at Bodymoor. Jacoby Jones. The Villa are waiting.
oops wrong thread
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Dunne's deceptively quick imo.
He is. Especially when someone is opening a pack of biscuits.
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Fastest centre back I have ever seen at Villa Park was John Charles. Just as comfortable at centre forward of centre half. Superb athlete. These days he would retire on fifty million quid in the bank. He was the last of the generation who got the license of a pub if they were lucky.
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Ah, memories. McGrath could have thought his way to the end of the 100 metres quicker than I could run it. Without moving more than an eyebrow.
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Mellberg aswell.
Laursen was amazing at many aspects of defending but I don't really remember him as quick.
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Earl Barrett or Steve Sims.
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Ugo Ehiogu was deceptively quick - a long loping stride from memory.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
Still haven't forgiven him for Vienna.
Whilst watching Baker run through treacle scares the crap out of me, as others have alluded to, pace isn't everything when it comes to defending. Look at McGrath, Laursen and Mellberg - none of them were particularly pacey but they knew where to be and when to be there.
McGrath was very quick over 5-10 yards. With his exceptional awareness and positioning, that would 99 times out of 100 be enough to snuff out any threat.
Ridgewell had a bit of pace I think.
We're more in need of a big hard bastard who can stick to his man and attack the ball at corners and free kicks both at the back and score a few when we get them up the other end.
Collins used to get a few goals from corners- we've missed these types of goals this season.
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The likes of Nielsen and Mountfield were alwaus handy for a headed goal.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
Thanks for your contribution Roger Irrelevant.
and yet you think Davies is a Premier League quality centre half.
Perhaps you could point out above where I've said that he's Premier League standard.
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John Sleeuwenhoek. Built like a greyhound ran like whippet. Great lad. Martin Keown was quick but I air brush him from my memory because he has airbrushed Villa from his.
he mentioned he was in the last villa team to be relegated last week on radio 5.
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Alpay didn't stick around, in more ways than one. Unsworth was also pretty quick, especially up the M6 to Everton.
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Look at McGrath, Laursen and Mellberg - none of them were particularly pacey but they knew where to be and when to be there.
Actually, McGrath was very quick over the first 10 yards or so, which is all he needed to get the ball in row z or to another Villa player.
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James Cowan... he won the Powderhall Sprint.
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Dunne when fully fit isn't as slow as he looks.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
Thanks for your contribution Roger Irrelevant.
and yet you think Davies is a Premier League quality centre half.
Perhaps you could point out above where I've said that he's Premier League standard.
Have we been relegated already? I don't wish to be rude but that is a foolish comment.
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Dunne when fully fit isn't as slow as he looks.
3 years ago yes. But I'm not sure he'd be able to hit the same sort of majestic speeds he used to after mounting years and injuries, and pie girth. But yeah, I do fondly remember a handful of storming runs from the back with the ball by Dunney in his first year.
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Mellberg aswell.
Laursen was amazing at many aspects of defending but I don't really remember him as quick.
Yeah Laursen wasn't that quick. In comparison to our current bunch probably, but more so he just had the knack of always being in the right place at the right time.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
Thanks for your contribution Roger Irrelevant.
and yet you think Davies is a Premier League quality centre half.
Perhaps you could point out above where I've said that he's Premier League standard.
Have we been relegated already? I don't wish to be rude but that is a foolish comment.
I don't think so. At least half of our current defenders clearly aren't premier league standard - Clark, Bennett, and Stevens for starters, possibly Lichaj and Baker. I'm not that convinced about Vlaar either. The point is he doesn't necessarilly need to be premier league standard to improve on what we have. He's better than Clark (indeed Bette Davies would be better than Clark), he gets his head on things in both boxes, he's very vocal on the pitch, and he would add some pace. Qualities that would improve us. Just my opinion.
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Yep Curtis is reasonably quick which is why I thought a move for him in the window might be an idea. We really lack pace all over the pitch, Gabby apart.
pushing water uphill wth a fork? I can well believe it.
Thanks for your contribution Roger Irrelevant.
and yet you think Davies is a Premier League quality centre half.
Perhaps you could point out above where I've said that he's Premier League standard.
Have we been relegated already? I don't wish to be rude but that is a foolish comment.
I don't think so. At least half of our current defenders clearly aren't premier league standard - Clark, Bennett, and Stevens for starters, possibly Lichaj and Baker. I'm not that convinced about Vlaar either. The point is he doesn't necessarilly need to be premier league standard to improve on what we have. He's better than Clark (indeed Bette Davies would be better than Clark), he gets his head on things in both boxes, he's very vocal on the pitch, and he would add some pace. Qualities that would improve us. Just my opinion.
Just to add that not only are some of our players not Premiership quality, some would struggle in the Championship.
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I think the last one that was quick was Davies. Knight wasn't too slow either, or even Cahill. I never thought Mellberg or Laursen were quick in general, but had that 'quick over 10 yards' thing in their favour. Dunne I always thought the opposite, in that once he got moving could shift a bit.
The Davies situation annoyed me. Yes there were some clangers, but there were some very good performances from him. I think he and Dunne could have made a good partnership in Houlliers season, had we not decided to never play him due to the clause. We should have kept him.
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I think Davies might be Prem quality now. Nothing special, but good enough for bottom-half teams like us. He has improved since leaving us.
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I've said it before, Davies had a few shockers for us and a lot of people judge him only on those. That's their right I suppose, but the fact is that for the majority of his games he was at least steady, and sometimes very good. And he was only 22 or 23 when he signed with the pressure of a huge fee around his neck, but seems to have been cut none of the slack that players like Clark get because they're "still learning".
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I think the last one that was quick was Davies. Knight wasn't too slow either, or even Cahill. I never thought Mellberg or Laursen were quick in general, but had that 'quick over 10 yards' thing in their favour. Dunne I always thought the opposite, in that once he got moving could shift a bit.
Mellberg when he first came was the quickest defender I have seen in my 40 odd years of supporting Villa. It was also one of his best attributes.
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He was fine till he did his shoulder. Never the same after that but he was rushed back as I recall.
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I can't remember, but was Knight slow?
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I've said it before, Davies had a few shockers for us and a lot of people judge him only on those. That's their right I suppose, but the fact is that for the majority of his games he was at least steady, and sometimes very good. And he was only 22 or 23 when he signed with the pressure of a huge fee around his neck, but seems to have been cut none of the slack that players like Clark get because they're "still learning".
Sorry KT, I don't agree. There was a time when Davies and Cuellar were our centre back pairing, and for a long old streak of games they were conceding nearly three goals a game.
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I've said it before, Davies had a few shockers for us and a lot of people judge him only on those. That's their right I suppose, but the fact is that for the majority of his games he was at least steady, and sometimes very good. And he was only 22 or 23 when he signed with the pressure of a huge fee around his neck, but seems to have been cut none of the slack that players like Clark get because they're "still learning".
Sorry KT, I don't agree. There was a time when Davies and Cuellar were our centre back pairing, and for a long old streak of games they were conceding nearly three goals a game.
Yes, they were absolute pish together.
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With a few exceptions Cuellar and Davies together looked brutal.
Davies alongside Laursen however...
I appreaciate a large part of that was the quality of the Dane. But Davies wasn't the complete walking disaster area many make him out to be.
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I never really rated Cuellar. Thought he was generally alright at RB but caught out to easily at CB. I can see why successive managers were reluctant to play him there.
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I've said it before, Davies had a few shockers for us and a lot of people judge him only on those. That's their right I suppose, but the fact is that for the majority of his games he was at least steady, and sometimes very good. And he was only 22 or 23 when he signed with the pressure of a huge fee around his neck, but seems to have been cut none of the slack that players like Clark get because they're "still learning".
Sorry KT, I don't agree. There was a time when Davies and Cuellar were our centre back pairing, and for a long old streak of games they were conceding nearly three goals a game.
I totally agree that when he and Cuellar were together, those were some of Davies' worst games. However I don't recall them being paired all that often at CB, I more often remember Davies with Laursen and possibly Knight, when he was generally ok or good. And how much of it was down to Davies and how much down to Cuellar? And why did the older and more experienced Cuellar remain a favourite among a section of fans despite being gash in many many games, while the less experienced Davies got nothing but stick? They were at least equally culpable for that pairing being awful. Cuellar was and still is a terrible footballer and a mediocre defender, who was only rated by MON and maybe a few of our less discerning fans. He got away lightly whilst Davies seemed to be everyone's favourite scapegoat once he got the wrong side of the blessed Martin.
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I've said it before, Davies had a few shockers for us and a lot of people judge him only on those. That's their right I suppose, but the fact is that for the majority of his games he was at least steady, and sometimes very good. And he was only 22 or 23 when he signed with the pressure of a huge fee around his neck, but seems to have been cut none of the slack that players like Clark get because they're "still learning".
Sorry KT, I don't agree. There was a time when Davies and Cuellar were our centre back pairing, and for a long old streak of games they were conceding nearly three goals a game.
I totally agree that when he and Cuellar were together, those were some of Davies' worst games. However I don't recall them being paired all that often at CB, I more often remember Davies with Laursen and possibly Knight, when he was generally ok or good. And how much of it was down to Davies and how much down to Cuellar? And why did the older and more experienced Cuellar remain a favourite among a section of fans despite being gash in many many games, while the less experienced Davies got nothing but stick? They were at least equally culpable for that pairing being awful. Cuellar was and still is a terrible footballer and a mediocre defender, who was only rated by MON and maybe a few of our less discerning fans. He got away lightly whilst Davies seemed to be everyone's favourite scapegoat once he got the wrong side of the blessed Martin.
I always rated Davies. It did go completely wrong at the end. But he was a young centre half lacking a leader. Zat used to leave us over exposed at the back and his shitness didn't help.
With an experienced centre half I do believe he would have developed. I'd have him back tomorrow.
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Fastest centre back I have ever seen at Villa Park was John Charles. Just as comfortable at centre forward of centre half. Superb athlete. These days he would retire on fifty million quid in the bank. He was the last of the generation who got the license of a pub if they were lucky.
I used to go to his pub down Churwell Hill. Even in his fifties he looked an athlete. A fine gentleman too.
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I saw John Charles at Villa Park run the length of the pitch and smack the ball against our crossbar. He chased all the way back to the Leeds goal and cleared the ball off his own line from a Villa counter attack. Best all round footballer I have ever seen and a great role model both for younger players and also for British players going abroad to earn a living.
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Steve Simms used to eat the ground up...literally.
This picture suggests he was extremely happy to be playing for the Villa if you catch my drift.
(http://www.footballcardsuk.com/cards/1989/3274.jpg)
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He's a dreamboat, and no mistake.
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Davies was excellent at a game at Anfield when he played through his shoulder injury.
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Davies was excellent at a game at Anfield when he played through his shoulder injury.
Which we won 3-1 with a centre back pairing of.... yep Davies and Cuellar.
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Steve Sims did a reasonable job in our promotion season, unfortunately SGT kept faith with him the following season and he was pretty much awful and out of his depth.
One of the chief reasons why we nearly went down again.
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Davies was excellent at a game at Anfield when he played through his shoulder injury.
Which we won 3-1 with a centre back pairing of.... yep Davies and Cuellar.
The defence that night consisted of Davies, Cuellar, Shorey and Beye. Other luminaries in midfield were Sidwell and NRC. Davies scored that night and was outstanding.
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That's the one good game I can remember him having to be honest.
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That's the one good game I can remember him having to be honest.
He had a very good game at Arsenal the year before too when we won
Dunne, Collins and Warnock were bought the week afterwards. Davies was a little unlucky as he was waiting for a shoulder op at the time, Dunne and Collins established themselves as a partnership in his absence. We paid a ridiculous fee for him and with Gary Cahill going on to be a far superior player it has skewed judgement on Davies somewhat.
He was decent enough next to Laursen but never used his physical attributes as much as he should have and his inability to kick the ball with his left foot was embarrassing. He along with a few of our players at the time went to pieces after Laursen got injured. Defence was exposed more by playing with 2 up top though after the signing of Ivanhoe and not 3 centrally as had been the case previously.