Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: IFWaters on December 17, 2012, 08:42:43 PM
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Just considering how much the wage bill might be reduced by July and what that could mean for our ability to bring in new signings?
This is based on memory and Football Manager 2013 but I think we could be free of the wages of :
Dunne - over 50k a week ?
Warnock - 40k
Marshall -10k
Lichaj - 15k? But we should resign him
Hutton - 40k - here,s wishing
Makoun - 40k - again possibly sweet FA chance
Bent - 80k
Delfouneso - 20k
Ireland - 50k - guess
That little lot is about 350k a week by my guestimates. Even if we only get 200k this year and the rest in 2014 then that creates a huge amount of funds - about 20 million in reductions to invest in say 2 or 3 signings in the benteke / vlaar mould.
If we can get through this season then we could be very well set up to challenge in the top half again
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It has been well reported that Ireland is on £85,000 a week. On a purely financial basis, I would say the following are replaceable for the money they are on (rough estimates):
Given - £60,000 pw
Hutton - £30,000 pw
Warnock - £40,000 pw
Dunne - £50,000 pw
Makoun - £40,000 pw
Ireland - £85,000 pw
Bent - £80,000 pw
That's the best part of £400,000 per week that isn't even featuring at the moment.
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I would be interested to see the transfer value of the side that was in the starting 11 Saturday compared to that of those on the subs bench and those that didn't even make the bench. I have a feeling it will be in reverse order.
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I'm a big fan of Ireland but when we see Holman now scoring goals and setting chances with good passing on probably a third of Ireland's wage then I think we'll see him moved on in the next 6 months.
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N'Zogbia and Given too.
Atleast we'll get something for N'Zogbia though. Given (as good as he was last year) was a horrendous signing considering the length of deal we gave him. I think a fair few said it at the time when his contract length was announced too.
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It's been mentioned elsewhere, but the cost of the starting 11 versus Liverpool was around 12m.
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Faulkner!
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It's been mentioned elsewhere, but the cost of the starting 11 versus Liverpool was around 12m.
Cheers Dante I did see that afterwards but I wonder how it compares with the other two groups.
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its frightening to see those figures and suggests that lambo has been tasked with shifting that lot out ASAP. seems to me that its a sell to buy policy in Jan and bent is possibly the only one who can be moved on, hence the recent drama.
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Delfouneso is on 20K per week, blimey!
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Listening to Stan on TalkSport earlier. He said it was his understanding that Darren Bent was on "six figures". Somewhat amusingly, it was in response to a Liverpool fan suggesting that Bent would be a good signing for them in the short term, only for Stan to point out that Liverpool probably couldn't afford to pay his wages.
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I was told recently that Bent is on c. £125k a week. Plus apparently a £20k a week 'non-playing bonus'. Doubt that last bit could be true given recent events!
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its frightening to see those figures and suggests that lambo has been tasked with shifting that lot out ASAP. seems to me that its a sell to buy policy in Jan and bent is possibly the only one who can be moved on, hence the recent drama.
Hasn't it been said that the wage bill is now at a sustainable level despite a number of players still being on big money?
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Are we really still paying Makoun?
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I was told recently that Bent is on c. £125k a week. Plus apparently a £20k a week 'non-playing bonus'. Doubt that last bit could be true given recent events!
He's probably on about half that.
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Certainly hope so Dave!
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It was recently reported in a couple of papers that Bent is on £80,000 pw.
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I don't think that that it is as high as we may think. When you consider that Shawcross just signed a new contract for 45,000 per week. I feel that a lot of the wages may have been inflated by supporters.
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I don't think that that it is as high as we may think. When you consider that Shawcross just signed a new contract for 45,000 per week. I feel that a lot of the wages may have been inflated by supporters.
These weekly sums are, of course, net of tax ...
just saying, like.
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I don't think that that it is as high as we may think. When you consider that Shawcross just signed a new contract for 45,000 per week. I feel that a lot of the wages may have been inflated by supporters.
These weekly sums are, of course, net of tax ...
just saying, like.
I thought the accepted protocol here is wage levels quoted are usually before tax.
I vaguely remember in the 1990s an Italian player was supposed to be moving to England and the move broke down with a misunderstanding over wages he was told by his agent. Apparently in Italy unlike here, figures quoted/negotiated are always `netto`.
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I don't think that that it is as high as we may think. When you consider that Shawcross just signed a new contract for 45,000 per week. I feel that a lot of the wages may have been inflated by supporters.
These weekly sums are, of course, net of tax ...
just saying, like.
I thought the accepted protocol here is wage levels quoted are usually before tax.
I vaguely remember in the 1990s an Italian player was supposed to be moving to England and the move broke down with a misunderstanding over wages he was told by his agent. Apparently in Italy unlike here, figures quoted/negotiated are always `netto`.
That was always my understanding of it as well.
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I don't think that that it is as high as we may think. When you consider that Shawcross just signed a new contract for 45,000 per week. I feel that a lot of the wages may have been inflated by supporters.
These weekly sums are, of course, net of tax ...
just saying, like.
I thought the accepted protocol here is wage levels quoted are usually before tax.
I vaguely remember in the 1990s an Italian player was supposed to be moving to England and the move broke down with a misunderstanding over wages he was told by his agent. Apparently in Italy unlike here, figures quoted/negotiated are always `netto`.
That was always my understanding of it as well.
Well, I may be wrong, but I thought recently people had been talking in net terms ...
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I don't think that that it is as high as we may think. When you consider that Shawcross just signed a new contract for 45,000 per week. I feel that a lot of the wages may have been inflated by supporters.
These weekly sums are, of course, net of tax ...
just saying, like.
I thought the accepted protocol here is wage levels quoted are usually before tax.
I vaguely remember in the 1990s an Italian player was supposed to be moving to England and the move broke down with a misunderstanding over wages he was told by his agent. Apparently in Italy unlike here, figures quoted/negotiated are always `netto`.
That was always my understanding of it as well.
Well, I may be wrong, but I thought recently people had been talking in net terms ...
I think the sums normally quoted are before tax. Where the confusion arises I think is that some European players initially negotiate on the basis of net pay, because of the varying tax rules between Countries.
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I'm a big fan of Ireland and would like him to get more game time, especially as I'm not massive on Bannan and Holman is a 60 minute player.
Saying that, Bannan and Westwood do play well together.
I can see Lambert going back in for that Charlton midfielder we missed out on in the summer.
One on big money I would sell is Gabby.
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Just considering how much the wage bill might be reduced by July and what that could mean for our ability to bring in new signings?
This is based on memory and Football Manager 2013 but I think we could be free of the wages of :
Dunne - over 50k a week ?
Warnock - 40k
Marshall -10k
Lichaj - 15k? But we should resign him
Hutton - 40k - here,s wishing
Makoun - 40k - again possibly sweet FA chance
Bent - 80k
Delfouneso - 20k
Ireland - 50k - guess
That little lot is about 350k a week by my guestimates. Even if we only get 200k this year and the rest in 2014 then that creates a huge amount of funds - about 20 million in reductions to invest in say 2 or 3 signings in the benteke / vlaar mould.
If we can get through this season then we could be very well set up to challenge in the top half again
Gabby has got to be on close to £50k a week
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...
Apparently in Italy unlike here, figures quoted/negotiated are always `netto`.
There's been very little Netto about the kind of wages we've been dishing out in recent years.
We've been buying our Pot Noodles at Fortnum & Masons
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We need to shift some more of the big hitters Dunne, N'Zogbia, Hutton and Warnock would do for starters and the Fonz I would try to sell them asap.
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Surely Makoun's wages are being paid by the club that's loaned him??
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I also think Gabby might go, We've looked better without him in the team
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Everyone on that list can go as far as I'm concerened
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Surely Makoun's wages are being paid by the club that's loaned him??
It depends. They'll certainly be covering something but I wouldn't expect it'll be all of it.
In the same way as Doncaster weren't paying all of Habib Beye's wages and I don't think Brighton will be paying Wayne Bridge £90,000 per week.
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I also think Gabby might go, We've looked better without him in the team
I agree.
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Warnock is on loan at Bolton and apparently they want to keep him when the loan expires this month. Let's hope we can negotiate a permanent transfer rather than an extended loan although that would be better than having him back as we have three decent left backs now. Funny that couldn't have been said last season even though two of them were already here.
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Keep:-
Keepers: Guzan Siegrist
Defenders: Vlaar, Lowton, Clark, Baker, Herd, Lichaj, Stevens, Bennett, Williams
Midfielders: Holman, Bannan, Westwood, El Ahmadi, Delph, Gardner, Carruthers, Johnson
Forwards: Benteke, Weimann, Bowery, Burke
Sell/release:-
Keepers: Given, Marshall
Defenders: Dunne, Warnock, Hutton
Midfielders: Albrighton, N'Zogbia, Ireland, Petrov, Makoun
Forwards: Bent, Agbonlahor, Delfouneso
Sign:-
2 midfielders (1 wide, 1 central) 1 forward, maybe 1 defender and 1 keeper also, but not essential.
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Pedro25, did you include Stan's name in the sell/release list by mistake?
I hope so.
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Stan should probably be in a 'offer a non-playing role' list all by himself. The guy is a fantastic person to have around the club and we should do everything we can to keep him involved and around the squad but it would be a super human effort for him to get back to playing at premier league standard after his illness, particularly given his age (which isn't far from retirement age for a footballer anyway). It might happen that he gets back to full fitness and returns to the squad but we shouldn't plan on ever seeing him play competitively for us again. He might not even want to come back to playing ( I certainly remember reports from Bulgaria about him saying 'football is over' back around the time the story broke).
Aside from that I agree with Pedro's list, pretty much.
I think I'd keep Gabby around and I'd want a 3rd keeper and another central defender as certainties not maybes as he has listed but the idea is about right.
We do need to be careful we don't become over reliant on the youngsters though as the 'keep' list is a very very young squad.
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Bent aint going until a replacement is lined up. You need four strikers in this league.
Selling Agbonlahor is crazy talk. He has been a useful outlet and key player ini our recent run. Plus he has loyalty.
Dunne, Warnock, Hutton, Ireland Makoun, meh for me. Anything we make is a bonus
Albrighton needs confidence. His final ball has eroded almost with each game he has played. I think a loan out to a good footballing team, Crewe or the like could do him wonders. There is a good player there, but he needs nuturing
Given, the wages worry me more than the quality.
Delfounso. I dont see the natural striker in him. He is full of himself, just watching him on the pitch or warming up over the past four years for us. And deceptively slow. I cant make the lad out at all.
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Ireland looks like one that will need solving soon - if we're not going to play him (and for all his ability I'm not sure he's going to fit into this side) he's probably on too large a salary to be back-up. Plus I guess he's got, what, 18 months left on his contract? So if we're going to recover any real money for him now is probably the time. Shame because he's got immense ability.
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I'd be fine with Ireland going. He's an 'easy on the eye' player in that everything looks good but there's no end product for us and he's on too much money to be just neat and tidy.
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I'd be fine with Ireland going. He's an 'easy on the eye' player in that everything looks good but there's no end product for us and he's on too much money to be just neat and tidy.
Same for me.
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These threads allways degenerate into the sell him, replace him, hes on whatever grand a week usually without any idea or knowledge.
Apperntly there is a Computer Game called Footballl Manager.
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The problem with Gabby is that he is some what painted into a corner due to the size of his wage compared to what he actually has to offer the team in terms of ability. I personally wouldn't want to see him as a regular starter again as he offers so little in terms of goal threat and creation. He is useful for stretching defences at the end of games and is good at running towards the corner flag to waste some time, but other than that is shot.
If he would take a wage cut to about half of what he is reportedly on now (£50,000pw) then I would keep him. If he is not interested in that then he can go to Sunderland.
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The problem with Gabby is that he is some what painted into a corner due to the size of his wage compared to what he actually has to offer the team in terms of ability. I personally wouldn't want to see him as a regular starter again as he offers so little in terms of goal threat and creation. He is useful for stretching defences at the end of games and is good at running towards the corner flag to waste some time, but other than that is shot.
If he would take a wage cut to about half of what he is reportedly on now (£50,000pw) then I would keep him. If he is not interested in that then he can go to Sunderland.
This is typical, you have no idea so how can you sugest he takes half of a number that you gave no clue about?
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The problem with Gabby is that he is some what painted into a corner due to the size of his wage compared to what he actually has to offer the team in terms of ability. I personally wouldn't want to see him as a regular starter again as he offers so little in terms of goal threat and creation. He is useful for stretching defences at the end of games and is good at running towards the corner flag to waste some time, but other than that is shot.
If he would take a wage cut to about half of what he is reportedly on now (£50,000pw) then I would keep him. If he is not interested in that then he can go to Sunderland.
The only problems I can see with that are that the manager appears to rate him and the player doesn't want to leave.
We have one good result and suddenly we don't need a squad, those same 11 players are never going to get tired or inured and will not suffer any dip in form and the manager will not feel the need to use different tactics or formations ever again.
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I really don't see the need for any big clearout based on wage levels, assuming they are now at manageable levels. Our income will also increase significantly next season assuming we stay up. I can see the point of getting rid of players whom Lambert has made plain he doesn't really want to use - Hutton, Warnock, Makoun, and possibly Delfounso. Maybe even Dunne. But we need a squad, and shipping out players with the ability and experience of Bent. Ireland, N'Zogbia, and Given who have all featured under Lambert, for wage reasons doesn't make much sense. It really could come back to bite us on the arse when injuries, suspensions, fatigue and loss of form start to bite in the second half of the season.
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At last common sense prevailing!!!
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To me it all depends if a) PL wants to keep them or get rid; and b) if he wants rid has he a replacement lined up? If the answer to both is yes, then I don't have a problem with moving any of them on.
He has been put in charge with, it would appear, a brief to change the style of play and encourage the younger players in the club and from elsewhere. To date he has done a pretty good job, IMO. So I am quite happy to let him get on with it.
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I really don't see the need for any big clearout based on wage levels, assuming they are now at manageable levels. Our income will also increase significantly next season assuming we stay up. I can see the point of getting rid of players whom Lambert has made plain he doesn't really want to use - Hutton, Warnock, Makoun, and possibly Delfounso. Maybe even Dunne. But we need a squad, and shipping out players with the ability and experience of Bent. Ireland, N'Zogbia, and Given who have all featured under Lambert, for wage reasons doesn't make much sense. It really could come back to bite us on the arse when injuries, suspensions, fatigue and loss of form start to bite in the second half of the season.
The need is because a lot of these players are a total waste of money. I'm not suggesting we run a 20 man threadbare squad, just sell some to cut the wage bill and re-invest in a mix of experience and youth at reduced cost.
And I am not referring to Petrov in any sense' he should be given a coaching role working with McGrath on bringing the best out of the squad talent.
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I'd get rid of Given and Dunne, together with the terrible two; Warnock and Hutton.
I would keep N'Zogbia, providing he gets a run of games in the hole to prove he can do it. He looked useful at Norwich and is one of the few players than can drive the game on.
I'd also keep Bent but I doubt he wants to stay.
I like Ireland, but I would be looking for better in January.
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I really don't see the need for any big clearout based on wage levels, assuming they are now at manageable levels. Our income will also increase significantly next season assuming we stay up. I can see the point of getting rid of players whom Lambert has made plain he doesn't really want to use - Hutton, Warnock, Makoun, and possibly Delfounso. Maybe even Dunne. But we need a squad, and shipping out players with the ability and experience of Bent. Ireland, N'Zogbia, and Given who have all featured under Lambert, for wage reasons doesn't make much sense. It really could come back to bite us on the arse when injuries, suspensions, fatigue and loss of form start to bite in the second half of the season.
The need is because a lot of these players are a total waste of money. I'm not suggesting we run a 20 man threadbare squad, just sell some to cut the wage bill and re-invest in a mix of experience and youth at reduced cost.
And I am not referring to Petrov in any sense' he should be given a coaching role working with McGrath on bringing the best out of the squad talent.
I'm not sure if keeping players like Bent will be a total waste of money if Benteke gets injured or suspended, or Given if the same happens to Guzan, or Ireland if we lose a couple of midfielders for any length of time. Do we really need to cut the wage bill to the extent where we sell useful, well regarded (by Lambert) and talented members of the squad just for that reason? If Lambert doesn't particularly want to keep them and is allowed to replace them with equals or betters, or if they want to leave, you can't really argue with that. But just to get them off the wage bill strikes me as unnecessary and risky.
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I'd be very surprised to see a mass exodus mid season, simply because its so difficult to get replacements in.
By that I mean January is a sellers market, and in all likelihood to buy players we'd have to pay over the odds.
The only way I can see that changing; is if we get offers for one or two, who Lambert knows are leaving in summer anyway.
He's not going to let five or six senior players go, without being able to get replacements in. He's not the Liverpool manager!
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I see Arsenal have announced all their promising young players have signed long-term contracts today (aside from Walcott). I would like us to do the same with our lot. The wage bill is under control and the remaining big earners are largely players that have been marginalised and could easily be the next to go. Reward what is now the core of our team in return for long-term commitments.
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No one is saying sell N'Zog, Bent, Ireland etc without bringing in replacements, just that if they're no longer starters we ought to be able to replace them with players of similar quality on less money. We may still get circa £25 mill for those 3, look what Lambert did with £20mill last summer, I'm sure he could improve us immensely and would bring in 4/5 players of the quality of Westwood, Lowton, Benteke, Vlaar etc.
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No one is saying sell N'Zog, Bent, Ireland etc without bringing in replacements, just that if they're no longer starters we ought to be able to replace them with players of similar quality on less money. We may still get circa £25 mill for those 3, look what Lambert did with £20mill last summer, I'm sure he could improve us immensely and would bring in 4/5 players of the quality of Westwood, Lowton, Benteke, Vlaar etc.
That's my thoughts on it too. Ireland, Bent, Given and Nzogbia are paid far too much money to be players who sit on the bench/in the stands unless we have injuries. If they were contributing more then I'd be happy to keep them (and I think Bent can definitely do just that) but as it stands we have players on far less money ahead of them in the pecking order and we can replace them with players who offer the backup just as effectively. I guess I just have no faith in Ireland or nzogbia to ever make it with us, Bent probably won't want to stay as a supersub and Given was offered an obscene contract given his age and anything we can do to limit it should be followed up.
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No one is saying sell N'Zog, Bent, Ireland etc without bringing in replacements, just that if they're no longer starters we ought to be able to replace them with players of similar quality on less money. We may still get circa £25 mill for those 3, look what Lambert did with £20mill last summer, I'm sure he could improve us immensely and would bring in 4/5 players of the quality of Westwood, Lowton, Benteke, Vlaar etc.
I realise that, I just don't think it will happen mid season.
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I absolutely agree Danno, despite all Lambert's obvious efforts, other than those out of contract (Cuellar, Heskey) we only managed to shift Collins last summer, so whilst Dunne, Petrov, Warnock and Marshall are out of contract in the summer it could take 2, probably 3 transfer windows to shift all of Makoun, Delfouneso, Albrighton, Agbonlahor, Bent, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Given and Hutton and get replacements in.
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No one is saying sell N'Zog, Bent, Ireland etc without bringing in replacements, just that if they're no longer starters we ought to be able to replace them with players of similar quality on less money. We may still get circa £25 mill for those 3, look what Lambert did with £20mill last summer, I'm sure he could improve us immensely and would bring in 4/5 players of the quality of Westwood, Lowton, Benteke, Vlaar etc.
But what if Lambert stills rates them and wants them in his squad? If he doesn't, fair enough, if he does, should he be forced to replace them to cut the wage bill further? Besides, unless another club is willing to match or exceed their high wages, I'd doubt very much they'll be willing to go anyway. I'd guess at least some of them are likely to prefer to do a Beye than take a pay cut.