Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: gervilla on December 15, 2012, 08:51:53 PM
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It has taken Nathan a while to find his feet in the first team after some less than assured performances last season and some bad luck injury wise when he did get a start but this season I have been incredibly impressed with him.
He has come on leaps and bounds.
For me he looks a better center back than Clark who to be fair to him has also been much more commanding of late.
He is playing with a maturity and consistency far beyond his years.
Another product of the academy with a big future ahead of him.
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It has taken Nathan a while to find his feet in the first team after some less than assured performances last season and some bad luck injury wise when he did get a start but this season I have been incredibly impressed with him.
He has come on leaps and bounds.
For me he looks a better center back than Clark who to be fair to him has also been much more commanding of late.
He is playing with a maturity and consistency far beyond his years.
Another product of the academy with a big future ahead of him.
Baker and Clark look a god partnership to me. Might be tricky for Vlaar to get back in straight away.
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Delighted with baker and Clark , and herd has also been superb , with Vlaar close to fitness and Lowton available as cover in central defence I think we are pretty solid- credit too to Guzan who spreads confidence with his safe handling .
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I didn't think he was THAT bad last year. Regardless he's looked great recently.
Compared to Collins and Dunne these inexperienced CB have looked completely in control for 90% of their tenure together. I can understand the wisdom in wanting experience but I kinda like the way these youngsters are having to deal with the pressure of being responsible for their actions. It means no-one is hiding or shirking responsibility. Not to mention they've probably played as a pair a few hundred times so the communication should be good.
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Nathan Baker was fantastic against Fulham, he's had some bad luck with injuries but if he can shake that off, he has a really fantastic future ahead of him
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Delighted with baker and Clark , and herd has also been superb , with Vlaar close to fitness and Lowton available as cover in central defence I think we are pretty solid- credit too to Guzan who spreads confidence with his safe handling .
Conjecture, but I think Guzan's communication might be a key difference between the previous years defensive omnishambles and now. A gobby yank was the answer all along... Who'd have thought.
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He's really starting to look the part. A few years ago I doubt many of us expected him to look more of a first teamer than Fonz, Albrighton etc. I wondered if he even had much of a future at Villa, especially when he got busted for the tickets. It's ace being wrong when it benefits the Villa.
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Delighted with baker and Clark , and herd has also been superb , with Vlaar close to fitness and Lowton available as cover in central defence I think we are pretty solid- credit too to Guzan who spreads confidence with his safe handling .
Conjecture, but I think Guzan's communication might be a key difference between the previous years defensive omnishambles and now. A gobby yank was the answer all along... Who'd have thought.
Confidence in the Keeper, communication and the way he controls his box is a big factor. The way he stood up to K (I'm not brave enough to spell it) Jones last week and Suarez earlier when they dared come near him will show strikers he won't be intimidated
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I think Baker's quality. A proper old fashioned no-nonsense defender. Him and Clark are forming a good combination, they remind me a bit of Southgate and Ehiogu.
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k than Clark who to be fair to him has also been much more commanding of late.
I still think Clark's better, but Baker's looking more than capable of overtaking him.
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I think Baker is the better defender, but Clark is the better footballer. If that makes sense.
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I think Baker is the better defender, but Clark is the better footballer. If that makes sense.
Makes sense to me. I think I actually agree with that, but in today's game being a better footballer is probably more valuable.
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I think Baker is the better defender, but Clark is the better footballer. If that makes sense.
Makes sense to me. I think I actually agree with that, but in today's game being a better footballer is probably more valuable.
Makes for a good combination the way I see it.
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I think Baker is the better defender, but Clark is the better footballer. If that makes sense.
Makes for a potentially great partnership.
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Baker is a solid, no nonsense centre half. With that you need a footballer, organiser and leader next to them. Clark is that now. Captain today, and rightly so. Vlaar in for Herd when fit will happen at some point, but not straight away I don't think. I think though, the 5-3-2 has helped all three for 2 main reasons, Guzan as mentioned behind, and Bannan and Westwood in front. Both screening, but importantly always available to take the ball from them and keep it moving.
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Vlaar is a tremendous footballer so the only thing I think we lose with a herd/vlaar swap is mobility.
But I think clarke has reined in his footballer instinct so he can fill that void.
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Don't see how you can argue he's better than Clark. I think they're currently as good as each other and are playing very well. As the bloke said on Sky Sports earlier, they're 100% players (though I think all of our team could probably be classed as that).
Also, as someone has said earlier, not sure if Vlaar is guranteed to jump straight back into the team, which is a good thing in my opinion. Not because he's not good enough, but because he's out injured and the players in there at the moment are playing very well.
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Baker will play for England superb defender. Its CLARK he is our captain get his name right.
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Most have Hoppo.. not the end of the world adding an e on a praising thread.
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Not only is NB becoming a reliable centre back, I'm also relying on him coming up with the goods if I'm struggling to get a Cup final ticket next Feb.
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Not only is NB becoming a reliable centre back, I'm also relying on him coming up with the goods if I'm struggling to get a Cup final ticket next Feb.
Might be more of an issue if he got banned from attending this time.
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It has taken Nathan a while to find his feet in the first team after some less than assured performances last season and some bad luck injury wise when he did get a start but this season I have been incredibly impressed with him.
He has come on leaps and bounds.
For me he looks a better center back than Clark who to be fair to him has also been much more commanding of late.
He is playing with a maturity and consistency far beyond his years.
Another product of the academy with a big future ahead of him.
Baker and Clark look a god partnership to me. Might be tricky for Vlaar to get back in straight away.
What a great problem to have :)
Have been singing Bakers praise for some time now. I know he's not the finished article but the more he plays the better he becomes.
He and Clark came through the academy together and appear to know each others game very well.
Let's not forget the third one in this back 3, Chris Herd. He, too, has been playing very well.
Also Brad Guzan could very well have something to do with this, too. It must give the defence confidence knowing your keeper commands the area as well as he does.
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Baker was our main man for most of the first half. McLeish rated him highly and has to be given credit for the way he got to how he played today.
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Baker was our main man for most of the first half. McLeish rated him highly and has to be given credit for the way he got to how he played today.
Really? He sent him on loan and played him 8 times. I'm not into McLeish bashing but seems a bit generous to give him much praise for Baker.
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Baker was our main man for most of the first half. McLeish rated him highly and has to be given credit for the way he got to how he played today.
Really? He sent him on loan and played him 8 times. I'm not into McLeish bashing but seems a bit generous to give him much praise for Baker.
McLeish was very much behind the formation of Nathan Baker.
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Don't see the major influence either??
Baker deserves credit for the way he played today, but not Eck. The tackle coming across in the first 15 minutes was just awesome.
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Don't see the major influence either??
Baker deserves credit for the way he played today, but not Eck. The tackle coming across in the first 15 minutes was just awesome.
Baker was magnificent and well done to those who have promoted him to get this far.
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May as well give praise to Houllier then for the 5 appearances 2 years ago.
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I'm a bit curious myself on this one, DC5! In what way did McLeish play such a big role in Bakers development? I'd guess that as a fine defender himself he might have seen his potential?
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Could become a threat at corners too. Wee Barry used to pick him out with unerring accuracy in the ressies.
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Baker was our main man for most of the first half. McLeish rated him highly and has to be given credit for the way he got to how he played today.
If Baker was so good last year, why was he shaky for the first few games under Lambert?
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Surprised to see someone being critical of his performances last season. He didn't look too good against Chelsea but after that I thought his quality was there for all to see. I'm glad his getting a run because I wondered how he would stay involved with Clark and Vlaar being the preferred partnership in a 2 man defence. I was worried he could get frustrated and look for opportunities elsewhere so I'm glad we have a manager who likes to have the flexibility to change to a 3-man defence.
Re: Vlaar vs Herd for the right side spot: I can't fault Herd's defensive work but his distribution needs a lot of work. Too often he goes for the big boot upfield. Having played right back though he is just as comfortable to push out to the right and allow Lowton to bomb on. The lack of technique that the likes of Herd and Lichaj have though will become a problem for them though as we start to bring in better players to the club.
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TBH it will be interesting how Vlaar fits back in. Although we need a calm head in there occasionally, he was also directly at fault for a few goals earlier this season. Granted we haven't really played this system with him but we have also had our best run of defending as well.
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Vlaar will fit in nicely in a 3 man defence.
Herd has done really well and Lambert will chop and change but I like the idea of a Vlaar, Baker and Clark back 3 with Lowton (or Herd) and Bennett (or Lichaj) bombing up and down the flanks in support.
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I just said the same on the post match thread, but Baker looks like he's developing into one of those centre halves who just looks in control all the time, confident in what he's doing, and goes about his job with the minimum of fuss.
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I'm a bit curious myself on this one, DC5! In what way did McLeish play such a big role in Bakers development? I'd guess that as a fine defender himself he might have seen his potential?
By sending him out on loan, and then playing him a handful of times, when Dunne got injured and he had no other options.
I am happy to give McLeish credit when he deserves it (Holman, for example, on a Bosman), but really, it's tenuous in the extreme to paint him as some kind of influential factor in Baker's development.
Houllier played Baker five times. McLeish then next used him a year after his last appearance for us.
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Well, yeah, that's pretty much how I remember it. I was just wondering what I've missed, that DC5 alluded to.
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DC5 and TSM = Chris Smith and DOL
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I'm a bit curious myself on this one, DC5! In what way did McLeish play such a big role in Bakers development? I'd guess that as a fine defender himself he might have seen his potential?
By sending him out on loan, and then playing him a handful of times, when Dunne got injured and he had no other options.
I am happy to give McLeish credit when he deserves it (Holman, for example, on a Bosman), but really, it's tenuous in the extreme to paint him as some kind of influential factor in Baker's development.
Houllier played Baker five times. McLeish then next used him a year after his last appearance for us.
He really didn't look ready when he played under Houllier then, if I remember rightly, he was injured and unavailable for a fair bit. He's looking a real prospect now but even my optimism was strained by his early performances.
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DC5 and TSM = Chris Smith and DOL
Not sure what you mean by that.My argument was only ever that he should be given until the end of the season. When it finished I agreed that he didn't deserve to keep hs job. I try not to judge managers on their personalities (O'Leary is a twat by the way) as we'd end up changing them every few weeks if that was the case.
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It's like watching Gary Cahill all over again. All we need now is an overhead kicked goal in front of the Holte and we're there.
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It's like watching Gary Cahill all over again. All we need now is an overhead kicked goal in front of the Holte and we're there.
Let's just hope the manager doesn't go mental and give him away for next to nothing this time. Somehow, I can't see it happening.
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It's like watching Gary Cahill all over again. All we need now is an overhead kicked goal in front of the Holte and we're there.
Let's just hope the manager doesn't go mental and give him away for next to nothing this time. Somehow, I can't see it happening.
Agree, MON absolute criminal decision!
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Again, just like Weiman, I'm glad he's getting a decent run of games. I think the system is helping too, the LB and RB can tuck in and pack the box for cover, it allows one of the back 3 to drop back a bit and they'll still have cover from the other two and they're being shielded by whomever is in front of them. Poor old Dunne is probably going to be off in the summer.
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He does seem to love a good old thundering sliding tackle.
He manages to get the ball too which is a bonus .
Maybe it is a bit harsh to say his performances last season were less than assured but I do remember him having one or two not totally convincing games. Maybe I'm thinking of the previous season.
This season the guy looks class.
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I am pleased at his progress and means may be MON can take Dunne off us in January for £10m.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html)
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The first time i ever saw him was in a pre-season freindly against Walsall a few years back (the one where Barry got booed). I liked the look of him that day. It's a shame niggling injuries have held him back, he really does look a decent defender.
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Not sure that a standard "bigging up" piece on Pravda when he's had to throw him in due to injuries proves he deserves credit for his development. Baker always looked ok to me if a little raw, but always seemed to pick up a knock as soon as he got a chance. Like other youth team products, they often just need a run of games to prove they can hack it and he appears to be doing just that, as do Weimann and Bannan.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html)
See nothing in there to credit Eck with any more than putting him into the side when he had too.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html)
See nothing in there to credit Eck with any more than putting him into the side when he had too.
Indeed Oz. Plus he calls him a "male model", which makes him a big bumder.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html) See nothing in there to credit Eck with any more than putting him into the side when he had too.
And that he was mostly concerned with making a naturally 'stopper' style centre-back play 'uglier'.
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It's like watching Gary Cahill all over again. All we need now is an overhead kicked goal in front of the Holte and we're there.
Let's just hope the manager doesn't go mental and give him away for next to nothing this time. Somehow, I can't see it happening.
I will drink to that
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Nice Lad as well apparently.
Will be England captain.A much better player at this age than Cahill was, a better player than Lescott, who cost £24m, will be worth at least that in 2/3 years time barring injuries.A proper centre half.
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The first time i ever saw him was in a pre-season freindly against Walsall a few years back (the one where Barry got booed). I liked the look of him that day. It's a shame niggling injuries have held him back, he really does look a decent defender.
was there too and he was the stand-out performer in that game and seemed to disappear off the radar for a while after.
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He definitely has the physical attributes and the aggression to be a top class CB and being left footed is a huge advantage. I still think there are questions regarding his distribution and decision making (the step over in his own box at Old Trafford last season springs to mind), but he's been better in both areas in the last few games and hopefully he will come on further with the more games he plays.
I read somewhere that Dunne's operation was a success and he should be back soon, which will mean there will be healthy competition for places at CB, which can only be good.
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Laurenesque yesterday. That's praise. He looks brilliant. More importantly, he and Clark read each other well. I think Clarks really stepped it up since being skipper. He's looked the part. Baker is looking brilliant though. Totally imperious. In all honesty, at the moment Baker and Clark a looking a cut above what Vlaar has offered thus far, and I think he's been quite good. Not brilliant, but good. Our defence has been tight since he's been out so he's really got to raise his game when he comes back.
Herd too deserves a lot of credit. I like him in that role. He's no nonsense and really gives his all. I think he's done more than well enough to suggest he's more than a gap filler.
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One great thing about Lambert is that you can just put complete faith in his judgement. You know if he has money to spend he'll do so wisely, equally you know he's not going to let Baker go anywhere, certainly not for peanuts like with Cahill.
It's also nice having a manger who will pick players not based on reputation. Just think how good these players could be at 26/27 with the game time they're getting at 21/22. Plus you know it's going to make great financial sense. Even if a Benteke or a Baker gets their head turned, we're going to be more than doubling or money each time and you just know that PL and our scouts will be able to but in the same but cheaper. Not that I want anyone sold.... :)
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Baker's progress under Lambert is amazing, last season he struggled to play when he was on loan at Millwall in Championship and now it seems a proper Premier League centre half. Chapeau!
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It's like watching Gary Cahill all over again. All we need now is an overhead kicked goal in front of the Holte and we're there.
Against the "blue's" next week would be nice... be a long time waiting to play Birmingham City again if ever............
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Have to say I had my doubts about the lad, but he seems to have improved massively and is now a good asset to the club. Great to see all the young lads doing so well
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He's looked really good lately, developing very nicely.
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He will go on to be a top player he's playing well at the moment.
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He has come on in leaps and bounds this season, that cover challenge yesterday was superb. Of curse it will take time for young players to get to grips with the standard of top level football, patience is a virtue. We have shifted young defenders on too soon in the past, I'm glad Lambert isn't making the same mistake.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2739421,00.html)
See nothing in there to credit Eck with any more than putting him into the side when he had too.
Indeed Oz. Plus he calls him a "male model", which makes him a big bumder.
LOL
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Remember watching him against Sunderland last season and he marked Bentner out the game. He is excellent in the air and is very composed under pressure. He was brilliant against the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and i would put him as our first choice CB and let Clark and Vlaar battle it out for the other place. I know Bennet has been injured a lot but i think a pacy LB in |January would help our style of play ..... .....
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Impressed with him.
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He made some towering headers on Saturday.
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Nathan Baker is determined to cement his place in the centre of Villa's defence - after admitting he finally feels like a fully-fledged top-flight stopper.
Baker has impressed alongside fellow academy graduates Ciaran Clark and Chris Herd as part of a three-man defensive unit in recent weeks.
He is hoping to make his sixth consecutive appearance when Villa head to Stamford Bridge to face Chelsea on Sunday.
The England U21 international has had brief spells in the first teamover the past two seasons and also spent time on loan at Lincoln City and Millwall.
Now Baker is starting to feel at home in the Barclays Premier League.
"I do feel comfortable in the Premier League now, yes," he said.
"I've obviously been out on loan a few times which was great for experience when you are young.
"But I'm a part of the first team squad and playing at the moment so hopefully I can stay part of it and keep going.
"I don't think there is a set number of games you have play to before you say 'right, I'm a Premier League player now'.
"It's just a matter of taking them one by one. Obviously you want to keep playing and playing.
"The manager has obviously given me my chance to play so hopefully I can impress him and carry on."
Baker believes the strong spirit among the younger players at the clubis vital in carrying Villa forward.
Lambert fielded six homegrown stars in Saturday's win at Anfield - all of whom played together at some stage in the reserves and youth ranks.
"We all grew up together and we all know what's what with each other so hopefully we can carry that on forwards," Baker added.
"The new lads have settled in really quickly as well."
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Didn't he get done by the club for illegally selling on cup final tickets?
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Didn't he get done by the club for illegally selling on cup final tickets?
I believe so.
All part of growing up ....
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He did, on Facebook. Ended up banned from attending the final IIRC.
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Be a massive turnaround for him when he lifts the cup.
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Either he is still injured and has been rushed back, he has been dragged down by the rest of the defence lack of confidence or he looked good when we played 5 but as with Clark, is found out when the chips are down.
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I think he may have been rushed back. Must admit alarm bells were ringing by the Ipswich goal on Saturday. Either he misread it or Chopra outmuscled him, can't remeber but poor defending.
I do think in general he has looked more convincing this season than Clark who with every game is just looking more and more a lightweight liability in the centre.
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I think he may have been rushed back. Must admit alarm bells were ringing by the Ipswich goal on Saturday. Either he misread it or Chopra outmuscled him, can't remeber but poor defending.
I do think in general he has looked more convincing this season than Clark who with every game is just looking more and more a lightweight liability in the centre.
The thing with the 5 though was that one of the other two could probably fix any mistake made by the other defender. Now we have gone back to four, any mistake is normally punished again and they are a lot more obvious when made.
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Shocking from Baker for their second goal though. When the initial clearence is made, the ball is nearest to him but he just jogs to it allowing their player who is sprinting to get it ahead of him and put in the cross that leads to the goal.
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Baker isn't good enough for our first team and never has been. A lower league player at best. I've lost count of the times he's fucked up yet I read on here that he's supposedly quite good. Christ I must have been watching a different Villa to most others on here this season.
Too many kids in our team. It was a recipe for disaster right from the off.
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We've been constantly spoon fed lies over the last few years that our youth team were akin to what Man Utd produced 20 or so years ago with the likes of Giggs, Beckham, Neville etc. I never fell for this bullshit. Lerner did though, hook line and sinker. He sold our best players and replaced them partly with the youth team. An absolute fuckin disaster. I wonder who it was who at the club that brainwashed Lerner into thinking we had the Ajax youth team set up? Someone must be responsible for this?
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Baker isn't good enough for our first team and never has been. A lower league player at best. I've lost count of the times he's fucked up yet I read on here that he's supposedly quite good. Christ I must have been watching a different Villa to most others on here this season.
Too many kids in our team. It was a recipe for disaster right from the off.
I still rate Baker. More than the likes of Clark anyhow. He needs to play alongside experience though and if we don't sign a new CB, then I would say a Vlaar/Baker combo is probably our strongest pairing.
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Shocking from Baker for their second goal though. When the initial clearence is made, the ball is nearest to him but he just jogs to it allowing their player who is sprinting to get it ahead of him and put in the cross that leads to the goal.
And that is it in a nutshell. That moment was the nadir for me. For a player to think that an effort like that is acceptable is beyond the pale.
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Shocking from Baker for their second goal though. When the initial clearence is made, the ball is nearest to him but he just jogs to it allowing their player who is sprinting to get it ahead of him and put in the cross that leads to the goal.
And that is it in a nutshell. That moment was the nadir for me. For a player to think that an effort like that is acceptable is beyond the pale.
I fully agree, I was screaming at him to get out to the ball. Mind you it was the same with Gabby for the first goal, he just watched the Bradford player knock it back in form the edge of the area without trying to chase it out. They defend awfully as a team.
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Baker is ok and he may get better, he's not good enough to start week in week out in the Premier League.
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Baker is ok and he may get better, he's not good enough to start week in week out in the Premier League.
Spot on. In Lamberts defence, you could say the injuries to Vlaar and Dunne have left him with little choice. Unless those two are close to a return we desperately need a couple of old heads back there. Even loans along the lines of Arsenal taking Sol Campbell a couple of years back would be ok.
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Had a shocker last night but had a good season IMO, people seem quick to jump on his back
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Had a shocker last night but had a good season IMO, people seem quick to jump on his back
This.
He's been better than Clark this season, IMO.
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Baker looks more promising than Clark but needs to play alongside of Vlaar.
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Shocking from Baker for their second goal though. When the initial clearence is made, the ball is nearest to him but he just jogs to it allowing their player who is sprinting to get it ahead of him and put in the cross that leads to the goal.
And that is it in a nutshell. That moment was the nadir for me. For a player to think that an effort like that is acceptable is beyond the pale.
And he is an academy player! You would expect at least the academy lads to play for the shirt. When that is not even happening then we may as well just fly a white flag from atop VP.
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Can't believe Baker is getting stick.Bennett and Clark were absolute garbage last night.Watch the 2nd goal again, Clark lets the man run in front of him, and leaves him to someone else.Their CF could have had 3/4 goals last night, a 4th division striker, Clark was that bad.
And the watch when Wells went through.I don't like to knock young players, but Clark, i just don't see it, no pace, no awareness, no acceleration,not strong enough.I think despite a poor game last night, Bennett has enough strengths to be a good FB, and Baker alongside a good solid defender, the same, but Clark....don't see it, not over convinced by Lowton either.
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I'm not actually knocking Baker. It's the managers job to outline the application and effort he expects from the players, Baker should not be in a position to be so casual, he should be fearful of a bollocking at the very least for that sort of thing. The problem runs throughout the team I agree and that stems from the management. The Baker incident stuck out more for me.
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Got to agree with you over Clark. Giovanni Trappatoni can spot a footballer I'm sure, and there must be a reason Sean St Ledger is keeping Clark out of the worst Ireland side in the last 20 years.
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Clark and Baker are good squad players. No way they should start every game at the back tho, but they're ok as back up. And there lies the problem.
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Can't believe Baker is getting stick.Bennett and Clark were absolute garbage last night.Watch the 2nd goal again, Clark lets the man run in front of him, and leaves him to someone else.Their CF could have had 3/4 goals last night, a 4th division striker, Clark was that bad.
And the watch when Wells went through.I don't like to knock young players, but Clark, i just don't see it, no pace, no awareness, no acceleration,not strong enough.I think despite a poor game last night, Bennett has enough strengths to be a good FB, and Baker alongside a good solid defender, the same, but Clark....don't see it, not over convinced by Lowton either.
Lowton is a good player no doubt.
Clark is a liability without a strong leader alongside him. Ditto Baker. Together it is shocking. They were better in a 3 in fairness.
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The problem with Clark and Baker is that they are both inexperienced and both are left-footed, which unbalances the defence. Vlaar's return would solve a lot of problems, as both men play better with him in charge.
The issue for me, is to wonder how Lambert could go into the season with only one recognised right-sided centre-back, and that player having a history of injury problems.
It just doesn't make sense.
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Lambert's relatively new to management himself (something like 5 years overall and only his second season in the Premier League). I imagine he regrets not adding a bit more experience to the squad last summer but that's hindsight. He had Vlaar, Baker, Clark and the original prognosis for Dunne was that he would be back in training in September. So with Herd as an option too he probably thought he would be ok with no idea that Dunne's problem would be such an issue or that Vlaar would be out for so long. Even then we were doing alright with the young players at the back before the Chelsea game. We were under a lot of pressure at Anfield and dealt with it so I'm not sure anyone would have thought we would collapse so spectacularly.
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Lambert interview on BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20985247
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So injury prone.
Obviously wholehearted and committed so he's going to get knocks but he must have gone off concussed three or four times in his short villa career and there have been other ailments aswell.
We need two new centre halfs this summer, a) because our defenders aren't very good and b) Vlaar and Baker are made of glass.
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So injury prone.
Obviously wholehearted and committed so he's going to get knocks but he must have gone off concussed three or four times in his short villa career and there have been other ailments aswell.
We need two new centre halfs this summer, a) because our defenders aren't very good and b) Vlaar and Baker are made of glass.
You can't blame him for getting injured yesterday. A lot of players wouldn't have got up from that clash.
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I know but he must have gone off injured 6-7 times already in his villa career.
You need your centre halfs to be durable and central defence is the last place where you should have an injury crisis.
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Signed a 3 year deal
@AVFCOfficial: Nathan Baker has signed a new three-year deal with Villa. http://t.co/MMFMokQu2v #AVFC
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Signed a 3 year deal
@AVFCOfficial: Nathan Baker has signed a new three-year deal with Villa. http://t.co/MMFMokQu2v #AVFC
Excellent news.
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Good news. Baker has the raw attributes to become a decent player at the very least.
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Happy about it as he could be a really good player for us...but, I don't want him playing every game for us next season, don't feel he's quite there yet.
Would still like to think we're on the look out for another Mellberg, Laursen....God!
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very good news. He's learning his trade, he'd made mistakes but he's always committed to the cause. He needs some better players around him to help bring him through which I would hope the club will invest in thsi summer. One down, a few to go...
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Happy with this as I believe Baker will get better and better.
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Happy that Baker has signed a new contract, I think he will continue to improve.
Wouldn't mind seeing a few selected others sign new contracts either.
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Glad he's signed, now he needs to show the ability to learn the positional side of the game.
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Deserves a new contract on balance. Thrown in the deep-end somewhat and did ok at times. Good for the club because we'll know in 18months time if he's going to be good enough to not just survive in the premiership but make the next step up.
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Deserves a new contract on balance. Thrown in the deep-end somewhat and did ok at times. Good for the club because we'll know in 18months time if he's going to be good enough to not just survive in the premiership but make the next step up.
That's fair enough.
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I think he's potentially a much better defender than Clark, just needs to work on his concentration and to cut out the silly mistakes. I wouldn't want to see him and Vlaar starting as our first choice centre half pairing next year. Either Baker OR Vlaar next to somebody good would be ideal.
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I think he's potentially a much better defender than Clark, just needs to work on his concentration and to cut out the silly mistakes. I wouldn't want to see him and Vlaar starting as our first choice centre half pairing next year. Either Baker OR Vlaar next to somebody good would be ideal.
I agree with that too.
Man, the world's a beautiful place.
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It is. I've had the week off work enjoying the TT in glorious sunshine, my best mate has been over and the world is good. Back to work tomorrow though so usual misery arse service will be resumed then.
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I think he's potentially a much better defender than Clark, just needs to work on his concentration and to cut out the silly mistakes. I wouldn't want to see him and Vlaar starting as our first choice centre half pairing next year. Either Baker OR Vlaar next to somebody good would be ideal.
I agree with that too.
Man, the world's a beautiful place.
I disagree - I think Clark has shown more potential (not saying he had a better season) than Baker. Granted Baker has played twenty or so fewer top-flight games, but I think he will not be able to improve his technical ability or positional awareness enough.
Love to be proven wrong though, and people who were at games towards the end of the season gave him decent ratings.
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I think he's potentially a much better defender than Clark, just needs to work on his concentration and to cut out the silly mistakes. I wouldn't want to see him and Vlaar starting as our first choice centre half pairing next year. Either Baker OR Vlaar next to somebody good would be ideal.
I agree with that too.
Man, the world's a beautiful place.
I disagree - I think Clark has shown more potential (not saying he had a better season) than Baker. Granted Baker has played twenty or so fewer top-flight games, but I think he will not be able to improve his technical ability or positional awareness enough.
Love to be proven wrong though, and people who were at games towards the end of the season gave him decent ratings.
Nah, Clark looks like a good player, but for me is lacking a bit to be either a quality centre-half or a midfielder.
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Deserves a new contract on balance. Thrown in the deep-end somewhat and did ok at times. Good for the club because we'll know in 18months time if he's going to be good enough to not just survive in the premiership but make the next step up.
I think Baker will go from strength to strength next season.
I have to disagree with Risso, I think Vlaar and Baker will make a very good pairing for next season. We certainly need another CB, though.
People tend to forget that both were playing their first season, proper, in the Prem in an inexperienced back four. Their partnership can only get better.
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Baker needs to play less and not be put into a seniot CB position at a PL club before his time. If he's patient and is willing to learn he can be very good. However, we need someone with more knowledge and experience back there. It's too soon for Baker and too much for Vlaar to make up for.
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Baker is a more natural central defender - Clark is a decent player who can fill in at left back, central defence or defensive midfield and both will be useful players for us in future years in my opinion.
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good. Baker is a top man. Loves the club and puts it all in. made mistakes but he will get better.
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Don't think either Clarke or Baker are good enough for us if our ambition is top 8, which it should be. Clark was woeful at times last season and reminded me of Titus Bramble at his bumbling worst. Baker is like a cross between Dunne and Warnock, brainlessly diving in to ridiculous challenges and conceding penalties and dangerous free kicks. Hopefully they will both just be backup next season.
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Neither are ready to start week in, week out, and either alongside Vlaar scares me a bit.
Ideally, we'd sign an experienced CB to play alongside Vlaar or Baker (Lescott maybe?), but if i had to choose between the two, I'd say Baker looks like he could become a very decent CB, whereas I don't think Clark shows anything like as much promise in that position.
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I'm pleased about this because i like him a lot. A player his age will make silly mistakes from time to time so i'm not worried by that so much. He's does tend to pick up a lot of niggling knocks though which is a worry.
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Good news.
On the Clark front, I can see him moving into a Gareth Barry type role.
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Why didn't Clark take the penalty? Doesn't have the same ring to it.
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Happy with this.
Baker is still learning and has his faults but he put in some good performances at the end of the season and dare I say he looks a better partner for Vlaar than Clark.
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I used to think Clark was the better player or had the most potential but I've changed my mind this season. Baker is the better bet.
I'm going to say that neither Baker or Vlaar should be first choice next season and that two centre halves should be brought in with those two competing for a starting place. With Clark either going on loan or 5th choice.
I don't expect that to happen though and agree that Vlaar and Baker will be competing with each other to start alongside a new guy. With Clark 4th choice and Williams and Donacien coming through too.
I'd be happier with two new centre halves though. Especially as Vlaar and Baker have form for injuries.
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Personally still think Baker has a long way to go to be a starter in the Premier League. The way he dives in to tackles makes him a red card waiting to happen and his distribution is poor to say the least. Saying that, he certainly has the physical capabilities to be a top flight CB, but as others have said, I don't think he should be starting for us next season.
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Personally still think Baker has a long way to go to be a starter in the Premier League. The way he dives in to tackles makes him a red card waiting to happen and his distribution is poor to say the least. Saying that, he certainly has the physical capabilities to be a top flight CB, but as others have said, I don't think he should be starting for us next season.
Posters used to say that about Delph.
Since he's got over his injuries and had a proper run of games he's got up to the speed of the Prem and that side has diminishes heck of a lot.
The same will happen with Baker.
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Baker does the basic things far better than Clark for me. Better in the air, stronger, stronger in the tackle. Clark is too similar to Vlaar for me.
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What i like about Nathan baker is his commitment. Always goes in for the challenge no holding back. Some of his tackles have been reckless - against Liverpool and diving in and the thunderous tackle in first min against chelsea - both home matches. He often can get some head or other injury due to his physicality and approach to the game. Baker is dependable in clearing with his head and relishes a 50/50 i think he will captain villa one day and am very glad he offered a contract! At times it was really tough going he never hid and kept going. This guy is real deal and only improve. Well played Nathan he done good !
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The award of a new contract is no great surprise - Lambert would not have played him as much last season if he didn't see him as a future Villa player.
On the Clark vs Baker debate: I've always championed Clark as a footballing CB whereas Baker - more limited - is useful against teams with a strong No 9 / CF.
Next season will be pivotal for both: they both have weaknesses that need to be addressed over the next three months.
I hope that we can being in a Lescott-type CB to play alongside Vlaar and provide CC and NB with another good influence in the squad.
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Baker's form at the end of the season was generally good, though he still makes a disappointing number of mistakes.
Clark was one of the biggest disappointments of the season for me. He's definitely a centre back or nothing under a manager like Lambert. He still has the potential to be very good, but there are a lot of faults he needs to remedy. I've been watching avtv season highlights, and Clark was either directly responsible or at least standing around not doing much for quite a lot of goals last season. While Vlaar has an awful habit of misjudging the flight of the ball and letting it go over his head.
A tall, fast centre back is a must for me. This Danish fella may fit the bill, but I've never seen him play so can't really comment.
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Good news.
On the Clark front, I can see him moving into a Gareth Barry type role.
Not according to what the manager said last year. He said he wasn't a midfield player. There are question marks about his capability at centre half either so he still has a lot to do to establish himself I think.
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Baker reminds me of Ehiogu for some reason. Very strong and defensively minded.
Clark disappointed me last season, he has been overtaken by Baker.
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Clark has the more potential to be a better player. Baker probably won't get much better, though if he eliminates silly errors he could prove useful to us over the next 3 years. He's a back up for me. I wouldn't want him to be playing 30 games a season.
In terms of last season, Baker made errors but Clark was our worst center half. He was nightmarish at times. All over the shop. He needs to improve his upper body strength to make him better aerially, and his concentration a lot.
If Clark had any pace, I'd have turned him into a left back by now.
Baker does indeed fully deserve his extension though.
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Personally still think Baker has a long way to go to be a starter in the Premier League. The way he dives in to tackles makes him a red card waiting to happen and his distribution is poor to say the least. Saying that, he certainly has the physical capabilities to be a top flight CB, but as others have said, I don't think he should be starting for us next season.
Posters used to say that about Delph.
Since he's got over his injuries and had a proper run of games he's got up to the speed of the Prem and that side has diminishes heck of a lot.
The same will happen with Baker.
True Nigel, but as much as I enjoy seeing him flying into crunching tackles (his one against Chelsea at home being a good example), he only needs to get his timing fractionally wrong and it's a red card every time these days (I also remember him getting sent off for a similar type challenge in the FA Cup against Blackburn during Houllier's reign and that was a couple of years ago).
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Clark has the more potential to be a better player. Baker probably won't get much better, though if he eliminates silly errors he could prove useful to us over the next 3 years. He's a back up for me. I wouldn't want him to be playing 30 games a season.
In terms of last season, Baker made errors but Clark was our worst center half. He was nightmarish at times. All over the shop. He needs to improve his upper body strength to make him better aerially, and his concentration a lot.
If Clark had any pace, I'd have turned him into a left back by now.
Baker does indeed fully deserve his extension though.
What we could really do with is a machine similar to the one in the movie "The Fly" so we could create a CB who has Clark's ability on the ball and Baker's physical attributes. Then we would have a player on our hands!!
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True Nigel, but as much as I enjoy seeing him flying into crunching tackles (his one against Chelsea at home being a good example), he only needs to get his timing fractionally wrong and it's a red card every time these days (I also remember him getting sent off for a similar type challenge in the FA Cup against Blackburn during Houllier's reign and that was a couple of years ago).
Yep, dives in too much. Someone above likens Baker to Eghiogu; I can see that but the latter timed his challenges alot better than young Baker currently does.
Players like Gnasher Suarez have a field-day against Baker because they'll always draw the foul.
His distribution is shocking at times as well.
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I just don't think Clark has the defender's knack tbh. He's o.k on the ball but not great in the air and isn't that quick, I'd prefer him in midfield or left back.
Baker has faults but at least we look a bit better defending high balls and set pieces with him in there, he had good games at Stoke, Fulham and Norwich for example and he is the typical british centre half who'll fly around the pitch blocking shots.
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I'm glad Baker has signed a new deal, for me he is a better defender at this age than Cahill was.He is only 21/22, and good CHs are generally in their late 20s.Alongside a quick right sided central defender, his aeriel abilities, and generally good defensive qualities, will be a very good partnership.
Never understood the Clark love in tbh, for me hes a poor mans Barry.Same attributes, no pace, but Clark is the lesser player.
Baker should be 3rd choice tbh, and brought through gradually.Clark can go.
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I'm glad Baker has signed a new deal,
Me too.
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I'm glad Baker has signed a new deal,
Me too.
And me. Increases the chances of getting cup tickets.
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Prefer Baker to Clark as well. I can't see the appeal of Clark either. But we need to start getting a clean sheet. Our last clean sheet is December 8th in 0-0 draw against Stoke and had 4 clean sheet in the league. Which is not good enough.
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Prefer Baker to Clark as well. I can't see the appeal of Clark either. But we need to start getting a clean sheet. Our last clean sheet is December 8th in 0-0 draw against Stoke and had 4 clean sheet in the league. Which is not good enough.
Fair comments Michael.
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I suppose with Baker in the team at the end of the season our defending of corners and set pieces seemed to improve, and he is at least a commanding aerial CB. On the downside our own goal and penalty concessions increased due to him. The og at Reading was pure slapstick.
People keep mentioning Clark as a possible LB. I can only assume they missed his (thankfully) few appearances there as he was utterly gash, positionally all over the place.
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True but Ridgwell looked hopeless there the one time we played him at LB and he's gone on to be a competent LB at WBA.
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I also which to join the Baker over Clark campaign. Baker has attributes that can't really be taught to a defender that Clark lacks. Not just the obvious physical attributes but he has a much better reading of the game. Baker's shortcomings are things that he can get over with experience and coaching.
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Pleased Baker has signed a new contract, has great potential. But I hope PL brings in two CB one with pace (Okore) and an aerial dominating partner Laursen type player. I think then with the injury records Vlaar and Baker have, they can be used in certain games more effectively. Think Clarke could become a decent DM but not sure if PL see`s him in that role .........
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I'm glad Baker has signed a new deal,
Me too.
I'm also glad he's signed a new contract.
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Well done Nathan, now go out and make the shirt your own.
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Nathan Baker has been backed to become a fans’ favourite at the heart of Aston Villa’s defence for years to come.
The glowing reference comes from Shaun Teale who knows what it takes to win over the claret and blue faithful with courageous defending.
Baker agreed a new three-year contract last week with manager Paul Lambert handing the 22-year-old a pay rise in recognition of his growing importance.
Teale, who became a Holte End hero himself during his Villa Park spell from 1991 to 1995, has been impressed with Baker’s development.
The 49-year-old sees a lot of his own no-nonsense style in the youngste r and reckons Baker can become a top player if he learns from his mistakes.
“I sort of see him as being a bit like me when I first went there,” said Teale. “Just go and stick your head into everything. You’d want to win the ball possibly, in a sense, too much.
“I certainly made mistakes when I first arrived. I’d have run through a brick wall to get in the first team and stay there.
“Fans appreciate that kind of attitude and he will get a strong rapport with them by doing that.
“I went in for challenges I shouldn’t have, because I was never going to win them and I was always going to give a free kick away.
"But you just back yourself and think ‘I’m going to win it’ – and then think ‘I wish I hadn’t gone in now’.
“He’s one of those, he’s very much like I was, he loves a challenge and he loves a tackle.
“But he’s got a bit about him as well. He can play, he’s got a cool head at times when he needs to put his foot on the ball and play.”
Teale joined Villa when he was 27, having learned his trade in non-league football and the lower leagues with Weymouth and Bournemouth.
Baker is five years younger than that and has been elevated to the Premier League stage after coming through the ranks at Bodymoor Heath.
The Worcester-born defender still has room for improvement, but Teale has seen enough encouraging signs to rate the youngster’s chance of success.
In fact, if Baker continues to progress, Teale fears other clubs will try to poach him.
“He will learn,” said Teale. “The more games he plays the more he will know what decisions to make and when.
“Games will teach him that and, to be fair, I think he’s getting better week-in, week-out at the moment.
“Probably the end of the season has come a little bit too early for him because he was in decent form and he was getting to grips with the Premier League.
“But he’ll do well, he’s one that will probably end up being wanted by a bigger club later. It’s important Villa continue to help him develop and try to keep him.”
Teale admits the time has come for the new breed of centre-backs to stamp their mark on the club after the last of Martin O’Neill’s defensive recruits departed.
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“I went in for challenges I shouldn’t have, because I was never going to win them and I was always going to give a free kick away.
"But you just back yourself and think ‘I’m going to win it’ – and then think ‘I wish I hadn’t gone in now’.
The game has changed since Shaun Teale's playing days though. In the modern game, if a player is thinking "I wish I hadn't gone in now", he is invariably doing so walking down the tunnel after receiving a red card.
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I like the kid, cut out the rushes of blood and we may have a genuine quality CB on our hands there.
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When people say I don't think Clarke is a defender, I don't see Clarke as a footballer at all, more a Secondary Schools Teachers Assistant or Call Centre Worker.
I liked Baker ever since he came onto the scene...Nathan over Ciaran for me.
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I like the kid, cut out the rushes of blood and we may have a genuine quality CB on our hands there.
I think that Okore's signing could be a massive vote of confidence in CC and NB: Vlaar and Okore are rightsided CB, the other two are leftsided.
Unless Lambert has another unknown signing up his sleeve - a leftsided CB - our two homegrowns are going to be pressed into service again next season.
And we have Williams and Donacien lurking in the background as well.
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Clark has the more potential to be a better player. Baker probably won't get much better, though if he eliminates silly errors he could prove useful to us over the next 3 years. He's a back up for me. I wouldn't want him to be playing 30 games a season.
In terms of last season, Baker made errors but Clark was our worst center half. He was nightmarish at times. All over the shop. He needs to improve his upper body strength to make him better aerially, and his concentration a lot.
Those things are pretty key for a centre half, though.
So he just needs to improve his heading, not getting bullied off the ball, how he times his tackles and his marking (the latter two being linked to concentration, obv). If he doesn't already have that in his locker, it's a lot of ground to make up.
Not impossible, I suppose. But tough.
Personally, I think he's more likely to end up as a centre half lower down the leagues or as a defensive midfielder - for us, or for somebody else.
Baker is not without his deficiencies either, most notably his passing. But in the primary things you look for in a centre half, he is sound enough. The other things can be worked on, but the raw attributes are there.