Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Drummond on November 19, 2012, 02:23:30 PM
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Easy.
So many people seem to be angry, frustrated or upset with our current situation and I was wondering whose fault they believe it to be.
Is it Lerner, Lambert, the Players?
O'Neill, McLeish, Doug?
Do you think we'll get better or worse? Will it take different coaching methods, more money, different owner/manager or something else.
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I think it a mixture...
Lerner for letting O'Neil sanction crazy wages for below standard players.
O'Neil for being like a spoilt child in a sweet shop. Just because you have an amount of cash doesnt mean you need to spend all of it at once.
But then the counter excuse i suppose would be, why shouldnt O'Neil spend the money if he has it. And Lerner, was naive and maybe didn't know any better. Had a manager in that he thought he could trust with his money and we're now paying for the failure of not getting into the elusive champions league.
If I'd been told i had £?? million to spend, i'd spend it too
We need investment in experienced players to compliment the youth we have. We can all see our midfield is too lightweight. Adding unnecessary pressure on the defence and not able to get the ball moving for an attack
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Randy is to blame because the past two managers have been poor appointments.
Lambert is to blame because he has brought in some kids and foreigners with little Prem experience and the gamble doesnt look like paying off.
The players are to blame because they cant finish off chances or defend properly.
I am to blame because I didnt wear my lucky pants.
The FA is to blame because the linesman / referee training programme is non-existent.
The culture of a 'big club' getting all the help they can get despite having hundreds of millions to buy players to play against very mediocre teams is to blame.
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1st = O'Neill - the club has been reeling like a drunk boxer since he flounced. His renowned control freakery apparently infested the club and, when he left, there was a vacuum which could not be filled. But it wasn't all his fault...
1st = Lerner - allowing O'Neill to run the show was only part of the problem. His refusal to appoint a "football man" to advise him was very negligent. The two managers he appointed after O'Neill were bizarre choices, to say the least. He did put his hand in his pocket and buy Bent - who kept us up last year. But, however strong his passion for Villa, he has taken his eye off the ball. A constant refusal to comment or communicate with fans does him no favours either.
3rd The players - Not so much this season, but certain players have to take some of the blame for the last two years' miserable performances. From the Dunne/Collins debacle onwards, there has been a sporadic lack of discipline, which can't be healthy.
4th McLeish, I suppose. But (as been reiterated here ad nauseum) he can't help not being a very good manager.
5th Lambert - but only because he has to come somewhere on my list.
6th Doug - who?
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I would blame the MON strop/Lerner's tightening of the purse strings and appointment of TSM/Man Citys emergence as the combined issue.
I'm not angry in the slightest. I don't like our league position... but I'm going nowhere, VTID and all that. Enjoy the journey it will be fun.
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To be honest I've blamed all of the above at different points in the last few years but I'm now more jaded than angry and it's feeling increasingly like there is no one clear source of blame. Yes MON pissed the money away on a strategy with a limited shelf life and left us in the shit. Yes Lerner was overly loose on the budgets then overly tight both of which have hurt us. We've been lumbered with a ropey bunch of players for most of it, where the senior ones have had attitude issues and the kids have often disappointed. It's houllier's fault for getting ill when we were just starting to play like he wanted. And it's the universe's fault that Lerner came in at the wrong time from a man city perspective and a general shit state of the game perspective. It's like an episode of Columbo with too many obvious suspects and when you add it up its sort of amazing we've stayed up the last couple of seasons.
Funny enough the person I don't really blame is mcleish who just seemed like a decent bloke trying his best and not being good enough in the middle of the shitstorm.
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Randy is to blame because the past two managers have been poor appointments.
Lambert is to blame because he has brought in some kids and foreigners with little Prem experience and the gamble doesnt look like paying off.
The players are to blame because they cant finish off chances or defend properly.
I am to blame because I didnt wear my lucky pants.
The FA is to blame because the linesman / referee training programme is non-existent.
The culture of a 'big club' getting all the help they can get despite having hundreds of millions to buy players to play against very mediocre teams is to blame.
Could you please take steps to resolve the lucky pants issue. Thanks.
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Lerner is the only one responsible! He allowed MON to run wild with the gold card, he appointed AM!
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Randy is to blame because the past two managers have been poor appointments.
Lambert is to blame because he has brought in some kids and foreigners with little Prem experience and the gamble doesnt look like paying off.
The players are to blame because they cant finish off chances or defend properly.
I am to blame because I didnt wear my lucky pants.
The FA is to blame because the linesman / referee training programme is non-existent.
The culture of a 'big club' getting all the help they can get despite having hundreds of millions to buy players to play against very mediocre teams is to blame.
Oh and Maggie T to ??
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The commercial management of the club have a lot to answer for - we've had plenty of time to straighten out the mess caused by MON's exit.
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The FA.
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Blues
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Wear your lucky,
Wear your lucky,
Wear your lucky pants Remy,
Wear your lucky pants Remy.
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Pete Winkleman. And Ian Bowyer.
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I blame Drummond. Nothing ever good comes from *that* side of the Pennines. Whippet-botherers.
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In many ways they're all partially to blame. When an established PL club gets relegated, and for the record I don't think we will, then it's usually a combination of factors.
I don't level too much criticism as Lambert yet. Someone above mentioned his transfer strategy isn't paying off, but in many ways it was more of a financial necessity than it was a strategy.
What's more important is how we put it right, which i think is three key things:-
1. The players getting further used to the manager's style of play.
2. The kids, plus new foreigh signings, learning from the experience they're getting.
3. Randy opening the cheque book a little in January.
I think all three will happen, hence not being too concerned just yet.
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To be honest, im pretty fucked off with that linesman
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O'Neill was to blame for kicking off the crisis.
It then moved to Lerner and Faulkner, who reacted to it by making things much worse, with two piss poor appointments (one of which actually goes way beyond that) with the too-fast trimming of the wage bill with flogging and not replacing our best players,
You could also point the finger at them for allowing the wage bill to get to such a bad state in the first place.
Nobody was saying "oh, no, stop buying players, Martin" at the time, but we had no idea just how precarious the financial situation was at the time (and even given that, a few of us were pointing out the fact we must have been spunking cash away on non-utilised dross)
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We're all going to die....and the end of the world is nigh.
We could do with some serious chill pill dispensing on this site.....pity I've retired I could make a fortune.
Mind you ask me again after the next 4 games and I may be near the front of the queue.
ps I have yet to find any evidence that Lerner actively wanted to sell his best players....they all wanted to move to bigger and 'better' things at other clubs and didn't give a diddly squat for the progress of our club...it was all about them and their grubby futures
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Lerner - not for 2 poorly thought through appointments, not for allowing the transfer policy or wage structures of previous regimes but for having absolutely no plan whatsoever.
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The buck stops with Lerner. Whatever mistakes O'Neill made re signings and wages, it was on Lerner's watch. Subsequent appointments were a tad optimistic (Houllier, although I could see some logic in it) and then not even on nodding terms with sanity (TSM). He showed for a decade at the Brown's that he was hopeless at running a sports club in a sport that he supposedly knew something about. He has shown on many an occasion that neither he nor his chosen aides know more than the cubed root of bugger all about running a football club. I suspect he isn't very bright.
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The rot seemed to set in 18-24 months before Doug sold up, we seemed to be a club in decline, no longer able/willing to compete financially with the biggest clubs. O'leary was lambasted for likening us to Charlton and Southampton, accused of playing down expectations and failing to acknowledge our rightful place in the scheme of things.
Then, out of nowhere, Lerner and O'Neill came rolling in, bringing along a tidal wave of optimism. It seemed that we would, finally, have some backing, some vision- speculate to acculmulate, modern commercial accumen, tap into new revenue streams, etc.
Despite the expenditure, we did not achieve enough- Lerner did not accumulate (ie by breaking the top four)- and now much as under Doug, we once again have to live within our means. Perhaps our means, our abilty to generate revenue, is simply not commensurate with competitive clubs in the PL any more, and Doug was only reflecting that in his stewardship of the finances of the club, as maybe is Lerner too now that he has been burned.
Maybe we were actually cut adrift from the top clubs quite some time ago, but masked it temporarily during the ealy MON years by being 'pumped full of steroids' with unsustainable levels of cash being injected.
It feels difficult to point the finger of blame on any one person to me, it just feels as though we are back to where we were under O'leary in early summer 2006- a club in terminal decline with the stench of relegation about us. God that all sounds misreable. Im feeling pretty down today, this is probably a very pessimistic piece!
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If Lerner is to blame it is for putting his trust in the MON project to bring us the goodies.
We bought it and it seems so did a fair few Sunderland supporters too.
And probably his next club's fans will too unless he's finally twigged .
He also trusted others about later appointments, including the Villa crowd calling for Lambert at the end of last season
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Firmly in the hands of Lerner as owner and Faulkner as CEO
Lerner/Faulkner let MON spend crazy money on silly signing and should have seen signs of him flouncing off
They appointed Houiller and then the debacle of Mcdisaster
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O’Neil left us in whole lot of mess, he didn't have to leave as close to the start of the season as he did, he must have known he was off. Also he seemed to have a philosophy of "buy enough players for big money, on big wages, someone is bound to come good" really hurt us and his successors in terms of transfers.
I understand why people want to blame learner to an extent, but at the end of the day he trusted O’Neil to spend the money wisely but should have stepped in.
Why McLeish was appointed i will never understand, i was willing to give him a chance and i did but for many he was doomed from the outset! but he wasn't the right man, but can you blame him for not being a very good manager.
I don't think you can blame Lambert, he is re-building villa, and yes he is buying in experienced players but he is looking long term not looking for a quick fix.
Most of all i blame the ref. If decision went our way then it would be a whole different story!
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The buck stops firmly with Lerner. He's made a horrendous mess of the last three years to four years, and there's no sign of an end to our downward spiral. That said, he must be well pissed off that Lambert is performing as badly as he is having given him £20m to spend in the summer.
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Don't like Lambert do we Risso...perhaps its time to revert to your old name?
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I blame Al Qaeda and Muslim moderates for not intervening and sorting out the fundamentalists.
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I would blame the MON strop/Lerner's tightening of the purse strings and appointment of TSM/Man Citys emergence as the combined issue.
I'm not angry in the slightest. I don't like our league position... but I'm going nowhere, VTID and all that. Enjoy the journey it will be fun.
This 100%
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Difficult to imagine anyone bears more responsibility than Lerner and Faulkner.
Lerner took 12 months too long in realising O'Neill was limited, to say nothing of his wasteful spending. Then he appointed a manager who hadn't had a decent Premier League season for 10 years but who did have a history of serious health problems. Fast forward 9 months and we're fighting relegation and the manager has had to retire due to serious health problems. It doesn't take a genius to see that as a potential outcome, but Lerner apparently did not.
Then Lerner seemingly goes through a list of replacements before deciding that Alex McLeish was the answer. But even then he had thought about Roberto Martinez - and the type of football he plays - before going for McLeish, and the type of football he plays. In Lerner's method there didn't appear to be any common sense or even a clear idea of what he wanted.
And through all that period we've been selling our best players, and only partially reinvesting the money - often on inexperienced players - with the predictable effect on the overall quality of the squad.
It really does surprise me that there isn't more criticism of Lerner and Faulkner, especially on H&V
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As might be obvious from my posts I have been quite angry with the owner.
I realise O'Neill was a tool and we would have cracked the top four with a better manager spending all that money. But ultimately it was Lerner that signed the cheques (and he genuinely did go for it from 2006-2010).
But Lerner's policies since August 2010 have taken us to relegation strugglers. As I said earlier I miss the days when I looked out for the results of clubs like Liverpool, Spurs and Everton. It is disgusting to be anxiously watching the form of QPR, Southampton and Reading and knowing that clubs like West Ham, Norwhich and the Baggies will probably finish comfortably ahead of us.
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I blame Al Qaeda and Muslim moderates for not intervening and sorting out the fundamentalists.
I'm blaming Mars Corp for changing the name of marathon to snickers.
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The Twerpish Randy Lerner and his lickspittle Faulkner have to take the majority of the blame. The trouble started when they allowed O'Neill to have free rein at Villa Park.
With his previous 'toys out of the pram' behaviour, it was always going to be a disaster when he walked and so it proved.
I agree with Hilts above, it's a big surpise the way that he's avoided criticism for so long.
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The rot seemed to set in 18-24 months before Doug sold up, we seemed to be a club in decline, no longer able/willing to compete financially with the biggest clubs. O'leary was lambasted for likening us to Charlton and Southampton, accused of playing down expectations and failing to acknowledge our rightful place in the scheme of things.
Didn't we spend prettty heavily in the 2005/2006 close season?
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
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I can only blame my Dad-he made me a Villa fan, and for that I am ever grateful. I don't care much for blaming anyone else-not even Herbert these days.
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It really does surprise me that there isn't more criticism of Lerner and Faulkner, especially on H&V
This point astounds me. I think we have beent he most miss-managed club in the PL since 2010. Fans of other clubs always say it to me. When I attack MON they concede Ithat probably have a point but go on to say Lerner sanctioned both the MON regime and the crap that has followed on its heels.
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The Chairman has made a mess of his two previous appointments but my gut instinct is telling me we have the right man for the job now and he'll get it right. If I have to blame anyone for my frustration at the moment then I blame the ref/linesman from Saturday.
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Lerner - not for 2 poorly thought through appointments, not for allowing the transfer policy or wage structures of previous regimes but for having absolutely no plan whatsoever.
Bang on.
We can blame others all we want - MON for being an arrogant sod who waltzed off at the 11th hour with a total lack of respect for us and others; TSM for just existing; other teams for being 'luckier' - but in the end it does not appear that RL has any sort of long-term plan.
Funny, he's sort of become a similar Chairman to Doug*: likely to put his hand in his pocket to ensure top-flight existence but more interested in the short-term financials. Perhaps he sees salvation in the FFP: if so, he's naive (but then I think we already know that).
* with two crucial differences: HDE was obsessive about the £££ minutiae; and, he knew his way around English football.
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
I made a similar point yesterday and it proved controversial. I think Houllier was a dreadful appointment.
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I think It is a mixture of Martin and Randy.
Martin for spending too much and paying too much wages and sticking to expensive premier league market too much.
Randy for not appointing a man to replace Steve Stride to keep an eye on football finances and putting too much trust and faith and money on MON's plan. Also Randy didn't appoint right man X 2 when replacing MON. What would we be like if we appoint someone like Lambert and give him the money 6 years ago, we could be winning a couple of cups and play champions league for 1 or 2 season already.
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I blame Simon Cowell. I hate that f***er.
But I suppose Lerner for letting that pubic headed twat spend loads of dollars on over paid turds.
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Denise van Outen - the slut.
Things have never been the same since she corrupted Stanley VC.
And how she is getting top marks on Strictly I'll never know. Can't be sleeping with the judges as only 1 of them prefers women.
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I don't think much blame can be pointed at Lambert, apart from his awful substitutions.
Between Lerner, Faulker & O'Neill, so fucking awful decisions have cost us massive.
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I don't think it's quite time to start shitting our pants just yet,if we're in the same position come the end of Jan,then it will be.
The owner and management need to shoulder most of the blame for letting our spending reach levels we could never maintain without CL football,and then for making two misguided(to put it mildly) appointments.
But,(and i'll start by saying i'm really pleased he's our manager,and after a sticky start he'll pull us towards mid table in the new year)it was him who spent all the resources on 6 or 7 players without any PL experience,knowing that our squad was very thin in numbers and quality,and they would be thrown in with our youngsters who have had their confidence shattered after being thrown in the deep end for the past two years.
I think we'll get two or three wins before Christmas and it'll be onwards and upwards.
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Difficult to imagine anyone bears more responsibility than Lerner and Faulkner.
Lerner took 12 months too long in realising O'Neill was limited, to say nothing of his wasteful spending. Then he appointed a manager who hadn't had a decent Premier League season for 10 years but who did have a history of serious health problems. Fast forward 9 months and we're fighting relegation and the manager has had to retire due to serious health problems. It doesn't take a genius to see that as a potential outcome, but Lerner apparently did not.
Then Lerner seemingly goes through a list of replacements before deciding that Alex McLeish was the answer. But even then he had thought about Roberto Martinez - and the type of football he plays - before going for McLeish, and the type of football he plays. In Lerner's method there didn't appear to be any common sense or even a clear idea of what he wanted.
And through all that period we've been selling our best players, and only partially reinvesting the money - often on inexperienced players - with the predictable effect on the overall quality of the squad.
It really does surprise me that there isn't more criticism of Lerner and Faulkner, especially on H&V
Lerner didn't appoint McLaren because of a internet fan back lash.
Then he appoint McLeish. Haha. He's a bell.
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Don't blame it on o Neill, don't blame it on houllier, don't blame it on big Eck - blame it on the boogie!
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the last few days of whingeing is really pissing me off. Fact! i dont blame anyone, any number of the decisions made could have been masterstrokes(apart from tsm obviously).
we have good times, we have bad. this season was always going to be a bumby ride but one that is being done for the good of the future of the club long term.
i am serious in my belief that it will all be right by the end of the season, but stop with the bellyaching!
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Blame lays firmly with Lerner and his poor judgement (of appointments and advisors) and I am angry with my wife - she renewed my season ticket whilst I was in hospital, because she thought it would cheer me up!
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Best to blame it on The Pony Express.
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I blame Drummond. Nothing ever good comes from *that* side of the Pennines. Whippet-botherers.
Times are hard Risso. Many of us have to make do with ferrets.
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Denise van Outen - the slut.
Things have never been the same since she corrupted Stanley VC.
And how she is getting top marks on Strictly I'll never know. Can't be sleeping with the judges as only 1 of them prefers women.
Er wasnt it Ulrika SG. I dont think DVO knows Stanley Victor
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we have good times, we have bad. this season was always going to be a bumby ride ... with the bellyaching!
You really ought to fix the broken spoke on your bicycle.
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I blame Ron Saunders. If he hadn't stropped off to SHA in 1982 we'd still be League and European champions.
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MO'N.
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MO'N.
Just MO'N?
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Initially, yes. I blame him for being the root cause of our current situation. He is not solely culpable, though.
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The board haven't covered themselves in glory at all since MON left really.
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Initially, yes. I blame him for being the root cause of our current situation. He is not solely culpable, though.
He was just an employee. The responsibility rests with his employers.
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I've changed my mind, I'm going to blame the whole of the 1980’s and sports science. If players were still allowed to smoke on the pitch and drink beer at half time, we'd have none of these highly tuned, highly paid players...I'll apply this to all sports....although Jimenez is keeping it real in golf with his cigar smoking.
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The board haven't covered themselves in glory at all since MON left really.
Quite. O'Neill's departure came at the worst possible moment but what it didn't do was set us on an inescapable path to the bottom of the table. It has been the decision-making at the top of the club that has taken us there.
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I'm not angry with anyone, I'd rather look forward to it being sorted out.
Which I think it is.
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Rinder.
All that early success raised expectations too much.
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1. RL = Should have kept giving MON the money as it was clearly working whether or not a few players were bad. Fergie has signed crap down the years but he still gets money to spend
2. MON = Should not have left us a few days before the new season
3. RL = Appointing crap managers; GH and McLeish
4. The players = Have really under performed and aren't fit to wear the shirt.
Ia mainly blame RL overall though. He has caused all the problems and events to occur.
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The time to start pointing fingers is if we do end up going down and that's a big if at the moment. At the moment, we're stuck in a bit of a rut. I don't think it's a crisis but we need it to stop it becoming one.
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I am only "angry" with MON still, as he is a persuasive man that took a lot, with little regard for the long term.
I think Randy gets a massive amount of very unfair stick on here, he has IMO the club at heart and has poured in a lot of money. He got stung with MON, and I personally thought Houllier was actually an intelligent attempt at modernising the club that we were very unlucky as it went badly. Randy dug us out of that hole with money in January, after the debacle of the MON departure. I think GED getting ill totally threw the board, with Randy at a point following MON and still fighting him through the courts leaving a very bitter taste that he was at a real low with it all. Then that summer they did the one thing that they can be rightly lambasted for in appointing McLeish. It was an incredible decision, Martinez made sense to try and keep what GED was trying to implement going. Eck was simply never, ever going to work, why they did it we will never know, but it was awful. He did give him the whole of the Downing fee though to spend, and to most manager 20m would be a lot. The football atmosphere, attitude, everything was wrong.
Then he sacked him, so can be forgiven as he learned from his error, swiftly appointed the man that the vast majority of Villa fans desperately wanted on the final day of last season (I was not a fan, but strangely am now despite results) and gave him 23 million to rebuild a shattered squad.
Lambert for me should be stuck by, even if we go down. He is an intelligent manager, with an eye for a player. Long term I think he will be our Moyes, I think he will be well backed in January and if he can get 3-4 experienced, calm heads with quality into the squad, I think we will be a good side, and good to watch in the future. Now is a time to simply hang on in there for me.
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The time to start pointing fingers is if we do end up going down and that's a big if at the moment. At the moment, we're stuck in a bit of a rut. I don't think it's a crisis but we need it to stop it becoming one.
Bit of a rut ? - 3 wins in 30 games is a bit more than that.
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I personally thought Houllier was actually an intelligent attempt at modernising the club that we were very unlucky as it went badly. Randy dug us out of that hole with money in January, after the debacle of the MON departure. I think GED getting ill totally threw the board,
You can't call that bad luck though. It would be like signing Kieron Dyer and Jonathan Woodgate and Michael Owen and then claiming it's bad luck when they only play a handful of games. If Randy hadn't foreseen that Houllier getting ill was a strong possibility then he's a fool.
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The decision to sign Heskey - When we signed him we'd just won 8 away games in a row playing 4-3-3 and we were 8 points clear of Arsenal in 4th place.
We the changed the system to accommodate him and it all fell apart. Coupled with the Moscow team selection incident meant that the O'Neill/Lerner honeymoon period was over.
The lack of managerial stability since has set us back 10 years.
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Lerner is primarily to blame followed by Faulkner.
Those at the top have to carry the can when an orgnaisation is failing. Blaming past managers is senseless as they were appointed and allowed to operate as they did by their managers - i.e. Lerner and Faulkner.
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We tried the old policy of "speculate to accumulate" and we lost. Like Leeds.
MON must take a lot of the blame because his second-wave of player purchses was very poor and his tactics didn't help. He was given the money to take us to the Champions League and he blew it.
From that point on Lerner at al have continued to do their splendid impression of a rabbit stuck in the glare of headlights.
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I'm not angry with anyone, I'd rather look forward to it being sorted out.
Which I think it is.
My sentiments exactly. Rome wasn't bult in a day.
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I'm afraid it is Lerner's fault. As the owner he hires, fires and controls the purse strings. All of our problems have come because of poor decisions in those areas.
I'm not angry as I don't think he did these on purpose, he just didn't have the right people around him (another mistake). Just feel let down.
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The time to start pointing fingers is if we do end up going down and that's a big if at the moment. At the moment, we're stuck in a bit of a rut. I don't think it's a crisis but we need it to stop it becoming one.
Bit of a rut ? - 3 wins in 30 games is a bit more than that.
What I mean is we're in a bit of a groundhog moment if you like. Unable to put a few wins together, hovering in the lower reaches of the league and still struggling with what's gone on in previous seasons. We need a mid table finish and a bit of stabilty to kick us on.
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One thing that annoys me other than Amanda Holden is MON thinking he never spent a lot of money here .
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Lucky Pants situation rectified. Mrs Remy unaware of magical properties (how do you think I pulled her in the first place!).
I don't blame Mr Lambert, he is trying his best given the circumstances and quite frankly I hope he becomes our David Moyes as in longetivity with the club. We need stability and a new 5 year plan.
I do blame the unseen forces that seem to give teams like the petrol heads with several world class players a helping hand against weaker opposition.
It's depressing that here we are 3rd season in succession, struggling again, hoping there are shitter teams than us to take the bottom 3. I hope Randy gives our manager the backing required and we shoot back up the table and become a force again and not a f***** joke.
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Lucky Pants situation rectified. Mrs Remy unaware of magical properties (how do you think I pulled her in the first place!)
Or maybe she is? Why else would she want to get into your pants? ;)
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Rinder.
All that early success raised expectations too much.
That's a bit harsh. ;)
I'd have though you'd have blamed Bobby Tambling for those 5 goals he scored against us in Sep '66!
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he decision to sign Heskey - When we signed him we'd just won 8 away games in a row playing 4-3-3 and we were 8 points clear of Arsenal in 4th place.
We the changed the system to accommodate him and it all fell apart. Coupled with the Moscow team selection incident meant that the O'Neill/Lerner honeymoon period was over.
The lack of managerial stability since has set us back 10 years.
This
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
I made a similar point yesterday and it proved controversial. I think Houllier was a dreadful appointment.
To be fair, a lot of my post was written with the benefit of hindsight and I think there probably would have been uproar if Lerner had sacked O'Neill at the end of the 2009/10 season.
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
I made a similar point yesterday and it proved controversial. I think Houllier was a dreadful appointment.
To be fair, a lot of my post was written with the benefit of hindsight and I think there probably would have been uproar if Lerner had sacked O'Neill at the end of the 2009/10 season.
There were quite a few of us on here advocating that position.
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In answer to the subject. You can only blame Lerner, he is responsible, it is his money, his decisions, his appointments.
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Ronny Rosenthal. His signing gave the Redscouse fresh impetus at the tail end of 89/90.
Had we won the league that season, we'd have dominated for the next 3-5 years. No talk of this 'missing the boat,' caper. We'd be on the boat, on deck, waving our collective dicks. Leaving the Redscouse and the Mancs in our slipstream.
And seeing as we hadn't missed the boat, there'd be no need for O'Dreary, O'Neill or any other false prophets.
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Ronny Rosenthal. His signing gave the Redscouse fresh impetus at the tail end of 89/90.
Had we won the league that season, we'd have dominated for the next 3-5 years. No talk of this 'missing the boat,' caper. We'd be on the boat, on deck, waving our collective dicks. Leaving the Redscouse and the Mancs in our slipstream.
And seeing as we hadn't missed the boat, there'd be no need for O'Dreary, O'Neill or any other false prophets.
Don't Kevin, it's all still very raw for me.
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We tried the old policy of "speculate to accumulate" and we lost. Like Leeds.
MON must take a lot of the blame because his second-wave of player purchses was very poor and his tactics didn't help. He was given the money to take us to the Champions League and he blew it.
From that point on Lerner at al have continued to do their splendid impression of a rabbit stuck in the glare of headlights.
Possibly the best short summary I've read.
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
I made a similar point yesterday and it proved controversial. I think Houllier was a dreadful appointment.
To be fair, a lot of my post was written with the benefit of hindsight and I think there probably would have been uproar if Lerner had sacked O'Neill at the end of the 2009/10 season.
I travelled over for the final game of 09/10 against Blackburn and the general feeling was MON would be gone as he had taken us as far as he could.
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
I made a similar point yesterday and it proved controversial. I think Houllier was a dreadful appointment.
To be fair, a lot of my post was written with the benefit of hindsight and I think there probably would have been uproar if Lerner had sacked O'Neill at the end of the 2009/10 season.
I travelled over for the final game of 09/10 against Blackburn and the general feeling was MON would be gone as he had taken us as far as he could.
Think it may be a moot point. Lerner had the benefit of the whole summer to choose a new manager the following year and look who we ended up with.
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I personally thought Houllier was actually an intelligent attempt at modernising the club that we were very unlucky as it went badly. Randy dug us out of that hole with money in January, after the debacle of the MON departure. I think GED getting ill totally threw the board,
You can't call that bad luck though. It would be like signing Kieron Dyer and Jonathan Woodgate and Michael Owen and then claiming it's bad luck when they only play a handful of games. If Randy hadn't foreseen that Houllier getting ill was a strong possibility then he's a fool.
But hadn't his heart scare been 7 years prior when we appointed him? And he'd had two or three decent seasons at Lyon in between. So yeah, there was the risk of him struggling with his health but I'm sure we would have made sure his medical gave a good indication that he was ok. Bad luck surely did come into it in that case.
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I personally think all this mess can be traced back to the end of the 2009/10 season. In hindsight Randy and Faulkner should have dealt with the O'Neill issue at the end of that season and not let it drag over the summer and leave us in the position of having no manager just before the start of the new season. We have been up against it since then and haven't really recovered. The two manager appointments after O'Neill were poor and the squad has lost a lot of quality which hasn't really been replaced despite some new faces coming in. Had O'Neill been moved on at the end of that season and been replaced with an able manager (it would have still been an attractive post at the point), we may have been able to avoid the mess we now find ourselves in. Despite many complaints about lack of spending since O'Neill has left, we have still spent more than a number of clubs who currently sit higher in the table than us.
I made a similar point yesterday and it proved controversial. I think Houllier was a dreadful appointment.
To be fair, a lot of my post was written with the benefit of hindsight and I think there probably would have been uproar if Lerner had sacked O'Neill at the end of the 2009/10 season.
There were quite a few of us on here advocating that position.
I recall lots of us getting pissed on with O'Neill, but I can't remember many people wanting him sacked.
Slight tangent, but give the way the media treated us after he left - which was as if we'd sacked him in any case - can you imagine how worse it'd have been if we actually had sacked him?
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I personally thought Houllier was actually an intelligent attempt at modernising the club that we were very unlucky as it went badly. Randy dug us out of that hole with money in January, after the debacle of the MON departure. I think GED getting ill totally threw the board,
You can't call that bad luck though. It would be like signing Kieron Dyer and Jonathan Woodgate and Michael Owen and then claiming it's bad luck when they only play a handful of games. If Randy hadn't foreseen that Houllier getting ill was a strong possibility then he's a fool.
But hadn't his heart scare been 7 years prior when we appointed him? And he'd had two or three decent seasons at Lyon in between. So yeah, there was the risk of him struggling with his health but I'm sure we would have made sure his medical gave a good indication that he was ok. Bad luck surely did come into it in that case.
The fact that he himself mentioned it during his first press conference ("I'm fit, I'm healthy,") means it was an issue. Some basic research shows that the average life expectancy after the heavy duty surgery he underwent in 2001 is 10-14 years.
Some will live longer of course.
Let's say we had been fighting it out towards the top of the table (as we all hoped - and probably had the squad to do) but lost a crucial game in the run-in. That would have been pressure of a different kind. Would he have been able to contend with that either?
It might seem insensitive maybe, talking about a blokes life in such cold, cynical terms. But you'd like to think that when multi million pound contracts are being signed more care and consideration (and research) would be carried out.
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My old man. He influenced me into following the Villa.
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I personally thought Houllier was actually an intelligent attempt at modernising the club that we were very unlucky as it went badly. Randy dug us out of that hole with money in January, after the debacle of the MON departure. I think GED getting ill totally threw the board,
You can't call that bad luck though. It would be like signing Kieron Dyer and Jonathan Woodgate and Michael Owen and then claiming it's bad luck when they only play a handful of games. If Randy hadn't foreseen that Houllier getting ill was a strong possibility then he's a fool.
But hadn't his heart scare been 7 years prior when we appointed him? And he'd had two or three decent seasons at Lyon in between. So yeah, there was the risk of him struggling with his health but I'm sure we would have made sure his medical gave a good indication that he was ok. Bad luck surely did come into it in that case.
The fact that he himself mentioned it during his first press conference ("I'm fit, I'm healthy,") means it was an issue. Some basic research shows that the average life expectancy after the heavy duty surgery he underwent in 2001 is 10-14 years.
Some will live longer of course.
Let's say we had been fighting it out towards the top of the table (as we all hoped - and probably had the squad to do) but lost a crucial game in the run-in. That would have been pressure of a different kind. Would he have been able to contend with that either?
It might seem insensitive maybe, talking about a blokes life in such cold, cynical terms. But you'd like to think that when multi million pound contracts are being signed more care and consideration (and research) would be carried out.
I can see Ozzjim's point, from a football point of view Houllier was a move in the right direction, but there was always going to be a risk about his health. I think some criticism of Houllier's year with us stems more from his ill-thought out soundbites, and his cup surrender at Man City than anything else. I was prepared to forgive him that if he improved the football, and there were some positive signs. We had been linked with some interesting players for that summer and I tend to think that if he'd been able to stay on and had been backed that summer by Lerner, we wouldn't be in the state we are in now.
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I wonder what might have happened had Houllier been able to get a younger, more credible number two who could have done the legwork and been capable of overseeing day to day training, rather than McAllister who seemed about his fourth choice and was never very popular with anyone from the sounds of it.
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I wonder what might have happened had Houllier been able to get a younger, more credible number two who could have done the legwork and been capable of overseeing day to day training, rather than McAllister who seemed about his fourth choice and was never very popular with anyone from the sounds of it.
Yes phil Thompson was poised to come as his number 2 and then changed his mind , I think if he had arrived with Gerard then things may have been better.
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I wonder what might have happened had Houllier been able to get a younger, more credible number two who could have done the legwork and been capable of overseeing day to day training, rather than McAllister who seemed about his fourth choice and was never very popular with anyone from the sounds of it.
I'm not one for looking back but it's a good point. Houiller did seem to have an eye for a decent player and with Cabaye saying he would have come here if Houiller had stayed, you do wonder what might have been in the long run.
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I wonder what might have happened had Houllier been able to get a younger, more credible number two who could have done the legwork and been capable of overseeing day to day training, rather than McAllister who seemed about his fourth choice and was never very popular with anyone from the sounds of it.
Yes phil Thompson was poised to come as his number 2 and then changed his mind , I think if he had arrived with Gerard then things may have been better.
Yes. We would have then had a manager and an assistant forever talking about Liverpool!!
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I wonder what might have happened had Houllier been able to get a younger, more credible number two who could have done the legwork and been capable of overseeing day to day training, rather than McAllister who seemed about his fourth choice and was never very popular with anyone from the sounds of it.
Point well made, Dave, although GMac did seem to get the best out of the squad in the final run-in to the season-end.
I said somewhere else on one of these 'doom' threads that I think RL made a real gaff when he looked at the GHou / GMac 'project' and declined it (even with GHou taking a more consultative role, following his illness): the cost of following through on their plan to re-vamp the squad through the summer of 2011 would have been far more effective than what has happened since (re expensive failures, lost gate receipts / TV revenue, hiring / firing TSM, etc) ... although I recognise that 20:20 vision is useful in making this comment.
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Has anyone said Bono yet?
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Has anyone said Bono yet?
No.
But the Edge is foine.
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Has anyone said Bono yet?
No.
But the Edge is foine.
Da drommer is also foine.
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I'm only angry with Randy for appointing TSM. It still beggars belief now.
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I'm only angry with Randy for appointing TSM. It still beggars belief now.
It does but did his 11 months in charge really leave any lasting damage? It was one long shite season of boring dull dire football in which we basically stood still. Nearly all the damage was done before.
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Has anyone said Bono yet?
No.
But the Edge is foine.
Da drommer is also foine.
Da boyce ployer is also foine.
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I'm only angry with Randy for appointing TSM. It still beggars belief now.
Still think there was an element of being utterly contrary from Blandy.
It's cost him though in the long run.
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Has anyone said Bono yet?
No.
But the Edge is foine.
Da drommer is also foine.
Da boyce ployer is also foine.
Adam Clayton is foine.
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O'Neill. I won't forget or forgive what he did. To walk out five days before the season started having bought no new players in that summer left us in deep shit that we're still up to our neck in. His timing meant we couldn't get a new manager until a month into the season and the transfer window had shut. Houllier's subsequent illness and Lerner's curious appointment of McLeish only compounded our problems.
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I'm only angry with Randy for appointing TSM. It still beggars belief now.
It does but did his 11 months in charge really leave any lasting damage? It was one long shite season of boring dull dire football in which we basically stood still. Nearly all the damage was done before.
I think we were very lucky to stay up. Small Heath got more points the season before and went down.
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Most of you are overlooking the obvious.
It's surely Doug's fault - without him we'd have win 10 European Cups
MON acted like a right bandit. As for the crap written about Houlier - had we made a decent managerial appointment at the time to replace Veruca Salt other than a old ill gaffe prone arrogant aloof antagonisitic bloke who had been away from day to day management for several years, things would not have been so bad. Yep he had an eye for a player alright he took that waster Baros of us and gave us someone who actually played for us for 2 seasons. As for TSM - jeeps even now it is too unbearable to think that year of Villa's life was lost and we can never get it back. £12m therabouts in severance pay for that lot.
So in essence about 5 people. This has been systemic for some time and missing out on CL place which was there for the taking in May 2010 started the rot and the profligate spending had to end until Houllier got us into a relegation scrap and we had to foist another load to fend that off.
As it now is we have all the hallmarks of Sheff Wed 15 years ago, Leeds 10 years ago and Newcastle 5 years ago.
Good luck Mr Lambert - you'll need it, especially as your bosses don't seem to have a clue about the game of football.
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I agree with the above view on Houllier. He was the wrong appointment for sure. The right appointment could have stopped the rot that set in. I don't buy into the whole 'MON ruined the club' stuff. The squad he left us with had finished 6th the season before. It has since been gutted out, with inadequate replacements, aside from Bent.
Mostly I blame Randy. Letting things get to where it did so MON walked (and was able to claim money for constructive dismissal) was poor management of the club. He hasn't done a lot since to redeem himself, again Bent aside.
He needs to back Lambert in January, or perhaps better still, look for a new investor/owner.
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Jonzy, good to have you back.
Re Lerner "letting things get to where it did so MON walked" - I think O'Neill had a fair bit to do with the situation in summer 2010 - the seven or nine players Lerner wanted shifting as they weren't justifying their wages; before giving him more money to spend/waste.
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Most of you are overlooking the obvious.
It's surely Doug's fault - without him we'd have win 10 European Cups
MON acted like a right bandit. As for the crap written about Houlier - had we made a decent managerial appointment at the time to replace Veruca Salt other than a old ill gaffe prone arrogant aloof antagonisitic bloke who had been away from day to day management for several years, things would not have been so bad. Yep he had an eye for a player alright he took that waster Baros of us and gave us someone who actually played for us for 2 seasons. As for TSM - jeeps even now it is too unbearable to think that year of Villa's life was lost and we can never get it back. £12m therabouts in severance pay for that lot.
So in essence about 5 people. This has been systemic for some time and missing out on CL place which was there for the taking in May 2010 started the rot and the profligate spending had to end until Houllier got us into a relegation scrap and we had to foist another load to fend that off.
As it now is we have all the hallmarks of Sheff Wed 15 years ago, Leeds 10 years ago and Newcastle 5 years ago.
Good luck Mr Lambert - you'll need it, especially as your bosses don't seem to have a clue about the game of football.
Good post.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
Not too keen on lifting that championship trophy again though.
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That fat bastard Phil Dowd is to blame. If he had sent off Vidic as he should have done, i am sure we would have gone on to win in the end. Since we lost that final we seem to have been in decline ever since.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Fingers crossed.
Some decent £££ from Blandy in January would help.
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Mostly I blame Randy. Letting things get to where it did so MON walked (and was able to claim money for constructive dismissal) was poor management of the club.
Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
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I blame Jimmy Saville. He's psychologically damaged our young side.
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I'm still in distress after yesterday shambles and looking for most apt threads to comment on. In lower holte yesterday there was an air of quite rueful discontent. Near to me after the 3rd a woman went off on one - lone figure- shouting sort it out lambert... Around me a few joined in with those supporting and chanting pl claret and blue army from upper.. I felt there was unecessary seat banging as attempt at protesting and that support was lacking. For me the blame goes with randy who apparently was there. I m behind Lambert i wad firmly behind him until yesterday now i start to wonder upon his tactics. I support him and continued chanting his name when others around me seemed to sit in disbelief.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Do you still like what Lambert is doing?
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I blame my Uncle Gordon. My old man was never into football so Gordon took me and our kid to the Villa, got us hooked and look at me now...
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Do you still like what Lambert is doing?
i do, i think you are very short sighted risbert.
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Iam worried about the situation, but dont think the blame likes with the current manager and dont think it is the chairman either. There is one person who was backed massively and bought a load of shit and paid a lot of shit IMO. Yes, we had a good short term under him, but he soon fecked off didnt he when the reigns had to be tightened. I thought he was the massiah, now I think he is a prize you know what
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Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
You'll have to explain to me how someone who walks out of their job and yet successfully claims for compensation from their employer hasn't won.
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Lerner of course. The very idea you can compete in the PL with lower league trash is bonkers beyond belief. He is an incompetent fool who should not be in charge of a football club. Especially ours.
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I blame me. Every fooking game i put a bet on Villa to win. Not anymore, No bets = Villa win.
No more betting for me. To quote the Mrs " You may aswell chuck that 10 Euros down the drain."
Full of positivity my Mrs. Mind you, she is a Leeds fan ::)
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Do you still like what Lambert is doing?
i do, i think you are very short sighted risbert.
What is that you like?
The scintillating football? (15 goals scored in 20 games, even Alex McLeish had managed 22 at the same point last season)
The superb defence? (39 goals conceded in 20 games, say no more)
The tactical mastery? (the reversion to a 5-3-2 has been a masterstroke hasn't it?)
I can't see anything from Lambert whatsoever that gives me any hope for the future, he's vying with McNeill for the title of worst Villa manager in 30 years.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Do you still like what Lambert is doing?
I'm still behind Lambert.
Do you still think Stephen Ireland will be a Villa legend?
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Do you still like what Lambert is doing?
i do, i think you are very short sighted risbert.
What is that you like?
The scintillating football? (15 goals scored in 20 games, even Alex McLeish had managed 22 at the same point last season)
The superb defence? (39 goals conceded in 20 games, say no more)
The tactical mastery? (the reversion to a 5-3-2 has been a masterstroke hasn't it?)
I can't see anything from Lambert whatsoever that gives me any hope for the future, he's vying with McNeill for the title of worst Villa manager in 30 years.
So much delusion on here. Some fans think things are going to click into place and we'll have a team to marvel at. It's not going to happen. We sold practically all our top players and replaced them with lower league nobodies on YTS wages. It's a recipe for disaster, yet still there's some who think its a master plan waiting to unfold.
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I blame my Uncle Gordon. My old man was never into football so Gordon took me and our kid to the Villa, got us hooked and look at me now...
If Gordon hasn't of taken us the other half of the family would have taken us down to B-lose bro so be grateful for small mercies. It's never that bad, nearly but not quite.
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No one. We will come right, of that I'm sure and Paul Lambert will be our new Ron Saunders.
Somebody on here (can't remember who) said the same about McLeish.
Hope you're right though, winning a title will be nice.
I would never have said that about McLeish, but I do like what Lambert is doing. I'm not panicking yet Mark and I still believe Lambert is a good long term bet.
Do you still like what Lambert is doing?
i do, i think you are very short sighted risbert.
What is that you like?
The scintillating football? (15 goals scored in 20 games, even Alex McLeish had managed 22 at the same point last season)
The superb defence? (39 goals conceded in 20 games, say no more)
The tactical mastery? (the reversion to a 5-3-2 has been a masterstroke hasn't it?)
I can't see anything from Lambert whatsoever that gives me any hope for the future, he's vying with McNeill for the title of worst Villa manager in 30 years.
Riss, he has taken over a shambles of a set up though.MON left us in the shite, Kev Mac= fair play, Houllier= maybe and then TSM :'(. The inheritence was not good and we have been sliding since. Give Lambert his due, give him a chance. Let him have a go. We will get there, sometime soon. The last thing we need is to get on Lambert's back. We cannot afford to change managers at will. We need some stability for gods sake. Even if we go down, keep him and the young lads. Reality check will be at the end of January, when we have spent in the transfer window. Keep the faith mate, we all have to.UTV
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Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
You'll have to explain to me how someone who walks out of their job and yet successfully claims for compensation from their employer hasn't won.
One day the facts of this will emerge. Right now, with the few facts we have, I think Randy was probably more unreasonable than MoN.
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Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
You'll have to explain to me how someone who walks out of their job and yet successfully claims for compensation from their employer hasn't won.
Because we don't know what he was claiming and don't know what we were offering. We also don't know what the contractual situation was. In the end it was settled by the two parties.
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Any chance of a poll?
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Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
You'll have to explain to me how someone who walks out of their job and yet successfully claims for compensation from their employer hasn't won.
Because we don't know what he was claiming and don't know what we were offering. We also don't know what the contractual situation was. In the end it was settled by the two parties.
You're right. All I know is, in a legal claim, if someone paid me something (anything) I'd consider that a win, and if I was forced to pay out to somebody else I'd consider that a defeat.
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Any chance of a poll?
Suggestions for options please.
I'm guessing
Randy
Paul F
Lambert
MON
Anyone else?
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Poll it. Lerner will win hands down mate.
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Any chance of a poll?
How about a pill- things look so much better :P
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[/b]date=1356910159]
Any chance of a poll?
How about a pill- things look so much better :P
I'd say a pullit's quicker and I'll be asleep soon after..
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Any chance of a poll?
How about a pill- things look so much better :P
Damn good idea. Pills are always better than Polls ::)
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Because we don't know what he was claiming and don't know what we were offering. We also don't know what the contractual situation was. In the end it was settled by the two parties.
What we do know is that we effectively paid him for walking out on us. God knows I have very little sympathy for Pubey but even I'd consider that a very skilful victory on his part. I know it's not a very palatable thing to swallow but that's about the size of it.
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Any chance of a poll?
Suggestions for options please.
I'm guessing
Randy
Paul F
Lambert
MON
Anyone else?
Yes we must include
Bin Laden
Cameron
Obama
Thatcher
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Surely some would still blame Alex McLeish.
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Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
You'll have to explain to me how someone who walks out of their job and yet successfully claims for compensation from their employer hasn't won.
When they walk out of the door, having been sacked.
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Poll added.
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The Poll is tough to answer as it all ultimately lies with Randy however...
We started with MON running the finances and football philosophy of the club - this ended how it ended... long story short, overpayed ageing squad with no resale value after millions of pounds of investment....
Here you can blame MON for his strategy or Lerner for not policing / setting out the goals...
Then Lerner / Faulkner went on to appoint Houllier, I didnt think and still dont think it was a bad move, He tried to change the philosophy too quickly, but it was starting to come together and towards the end of the season we were all getting happy... due to health reasons, He was let go, although he claims the doctors didn't request he give up work... had we stuck with him and completed the transition we would be in a much better space in my opinion, so board to blame for this one is it faulkner or Randy or both?
Then we come to TSM reign... After a summer of managerial links, including our protests, Randy & Faulkner reached the end of their tethers and appointed McClueless. This was the worst of all actions / appointments, McLeish did not have the ability or know how to ensure this club matches the fans expectations, the players he bought in were awful and not how the fans wanted to go... Holman, Hutton etc so he was on a loosing battle and ultimately left, The McLeish season was neer going to be great, no matter who was in charge as again it was a transitional season of the back of a transitional season that had started to work... the problem was his direction
Now we are into the 3rd Season with PL, this is a transitional season after a transitional season after another transitional season... so the philosophy of football within the club is shot to pieces all the saleable players that could be sold have been, as whats the point in keeping an asset if you dont know how you will use it etc. To me lambert is making all the right choices in general to make us into a decent team again, even against wigan you can see flashes where we are there and clicking its just not consistant or working at the minute...
what is the point in all this?
Well Lerner has put his money where his mouth is, he isn't a Russian Billionaire or Sheik, yet on the ranking he has probably put more into villa than many other chairmen in the Premier League.
Lerner doesnt use the club for limelight etc, he has always said he doesnt get involved in the day to day running etc...
So in that sense he is a good chairman
Where it goes wrong is the football direction and stratergy... Paul Faulkner is not the man to steer the club from a football perspective, he may be doing great at commercials but football is failing... Easy to blame him but it is ultimately Lerners call...
We are in this position due to a long list of poor footballing decisions from leaving MON with free reign through to sending a private jet to pick up Solsjkaer...
We need a football man on the board asap who owns the philosophy and direction, transfer strategies, management recruitment etc
cant help but feel that Houiller should of moved to a board post after his season... either way from the off and even more so know we need a football man on the board to steer us.. that is down to Faulkner to suggest and Lerner to honour...
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Agree with NiiLamptey. Lambert will need someone on the board who knows something about Football. A Houllier type on the board would make some sense. All the big decisions at that level have been wrong this past couple of years and have undone a lot of hard work when they first took over. They're really going to have to pull a few rabbits out the hat to get that 'going places' feeling back about this club. It's disappointing.
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I said other.
And by other I mean all of them.
All of this shit has happened under Lerner's rule. Faulkner is involved in the running of this sinking ship.
O'Neill fucked us up with signing shit on insane money, and then he ran off when the leash was tugged & sued us.
I blame McLeish less than the others. I mean, he tried. He was just shit.
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No one person is to blame- some blame can be shared between Faulkner, Lerner, o Neill, houllier, Mcleish and lambert to varying degrees.
The main thing is that we all roll our sleeves up to get out of this mess, what's done is done and we must look at getting out of this and looking t the future.
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The whole lot has been one complete cock up since the summer of 2010. Fuck all has gone right. It's time for decision makers to stand up and be counted. If they aren't willing to accept the blame, then they need to get on with resolving this shower of shite before it turns into relegation and all the bullshit, and possible administration that follows. Rant over.
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HDE appointed MON. Pity he didn't appoint a top-class foreign coach at the time
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At the time MON was the perfect appointment. Can't see that being the start of all this.
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HDE appointed MON. Pity he didn't appoint a top-class foreign coach at the time
I think most were delighted to attract mon at the time and certainly I don't see that as a bad decision.
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It's been a right fine mess for so many years. So I agree with Summers and have gone other.
I think back and I'm sure most of the players bought during MON reign would have taken less of a wage in the first place? The same squad assembled during MON's time would not have looked so expensive if the contracts were not so ridiculous. So that must be the fault of MON and upstairs.
I believe Randy fell into the same myth that MON was some managerial genius and gave far too much trust in him.
The GH appointment didn't work with the team MON left behind. In hindsight it would not have been popular but Sam Allardyce probably would have got that squad of players working and we would be in a far better position all round now. At the time I remember many people suggesting him. Myself and most people were against him. I don't think we would have had the in-house fighting and the players would have adapted to his style more than GH continental approach.
Appointing TSM was just a complete cock up for so many reasons. We really needed to pull together as a club and appointing him created so much attention with the media with the Birmingham connection. The fact that he is not the best manager out there was completely ignored in the media and our board. Absolutely bonkers.
If Lambert could have bought in some experience during the summer he has made a massive mistake and will hopefully put it right. He obviously had a small budget and was very shrewd in the market. I think Karim has not adjusted as well as he hoped. Some of the injuries have not helped. He gave Bent the captains armband so I don't believe in all this bollocks that he wont play him due to appearance bonuses. I just feel that after working with him something has happened either on the training pitch or just the simple reason he feels Bent can not do the job expected of him.
Hopefully 2013 will be a better year, by Jesus 2012 has not bee fun.
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
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Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
Bloody hell dc5 , that's worrying mixing up dol and mon, are you sure you were actually watching villa and not west ham?
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The Poll is tough to answer as it all ultimately lies with Randy however...
We started with MON running the finances and football philosophy of the club - this ended how it ended... long story short, overpayed ageing squad with no resale value after millions of pounds of investment....
Here you can blame MON for his strategy or Lerner for not policing / setting out the goals...
Then Lerner / Faulkner went on to appoint Houllier, I didnt think and still dont think it was a bad move, He tried to change the philosophy too quickly, but it was starting to come together and towards the end of the season we were all getting happy... due to health reasons, He was let go, although he claims the doctors didn't request he give up work... had we stuck with him and completed the transition we would be in a much better space in my opinion, so board to blame for this one is it faulkner or Randy or both?
Then we come to TSM reign... After a summer of managerial links, including our protests, Randy & Faulkner reached the end of their tethers and appointed McClueless. This was the worst of all actions / appointments, McLeish did not have the ability or know how to ensure this club matches the fans expectations, the players he bought in were awful and not how the fans wanted to go... Holman, Hutton etc so he was on a loosing battle and ultimately left, The McLeish season was neer going to be great, no matter who was in charge as again it was a transitional season of the back of a transitional season that had started to work... the problem was his direction
Now we are into the 3rd Season with PL, this is a transitional season after a transitional season after another transitional season... so the philosophy of football within the club is shot to pieces all the saleable players that could be sold have been, as whats the point in keeping an asset if you dont know how you will use it etc. To me lambert is making all the right choices in general to make us into a decent team again, even against wigan you can see flashes where we are there and clicking its just not consistant or working at the minute...
what is the point in all this?
Well Lerner has put his money where his mouth is, he isn't a Russian Billionaire or Sheik, yet on the ranking he has probably put more into villa than many other chairmen in the Premier League.
Lerner doesnt use the club for limelight etc, he has always said he doesnt get involved in the day to day running etc...
So in that sense he is a good chairman
Where it goes wrong is the football direction and stratergy... Paul Faulkner is not the man to steer the club from a football perspective, he may be doing great at commercials but football is failing... Easy to blame him but it is ultimately Lerners call...
We are in this position due to a long list of poor footballing decisions from leaving MON with free reign through to sending a private jet to pick up Solsjkaer...
We need a football man on the board asap who owns the philosophy and direction, transfer strategies, management recruitment etc
cant help but feel that Houiller should of moved to a board post after his season... either way from the off and even more so know we need a football man on the board to steer us.. that is down to Faulkner to suggest and Lerner to honour...
Pretty much. I like Lerner, think he's done a lot of good things and seems a more than decent bloke but the buck has to stop with him.
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Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
When you look at the league table and money spent it just proves how shockingly bad things have been run to spend such vast amounts and have a squad as poor as ours is compared to others who have far better squads having spent far far less.
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
I was over the moon when we got MON . how naive I was , a bit like Randy
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It might be a bit of a cop out, but I blame the injuries. If we had Vlaar or Dunne or maybe even both bossing the back line our defense might be tighter. I know it's not technically an injury, but if we had Stan's experience in the middle he'd direct the kids and be the calm pro captain.
That said a lot of my vitriol is aimed towards the anonymous players who should be performing like Zog and Ireland.
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It might be a bit of a cop out, but I blame the injuries. If we had Vlaar or Dunne or maybe even both bossing the back line our defense might be tighter. I know it's not technically an injury, but if we had Stan's experience in the middle he'd direct the kids and be the calm pro captain.
That said a lot of my vitriol is aimed towards the anonymous players who should be performing like Zog and Ireland.
That said when Vlaar got injured we were down there struggling anyway, I think Vlaar would have been better in a 3 man defence though than herd.
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I wasn't convinced by Vlaar earlier in the season. But, we're missing his presence. Herd and Clark aren't very physical. Herd thinks he's a big hard bastard. But he's clearly not.
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I wasn't convinced by Vlaar earlier in the season. But, we're missing his presence. Herd and Clark aren't very physical. Herd thinks he's a big hard bastard. But he's clearly not.
Vlaars leadership is being missed, Clark is a poor captain and leader and too often we are too disorganised, I would like to have seen Vlaar alongside Clark and baker as it may have been much more solid than Vlaar and Clark in a flat back 4.
If we did revert to a back 4 I would go with Vlaar and baker and push Clark into a defensive midfield role alongside Westwood with bannan more advanced.
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It is Randy who has appointed all these people (excpet MON) and seems to know nowt about football so he takes the rap.
That said I have never thought he had anything but the best intentions for us; he allowed money to be spent unwisely on ordinary players with little resale value (or skill!). His adviser/s are very poor (looking at you Mr Faulkner). The suggested offer of £10m to keep us in the Premiership is laughable, but understandable.
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I wasn't convinced by Vlaar earlier in the season. But, we're missing his presence. Herd and Clark aren't very physical. Herd thinks he's a big hard bastard. But he's clearly not.
Vlaars leadership is being missed, Clark is a poor captain and leader and too often we are too disorganised, I would like to have seen Vlaar alongside Clark and baker as it may have been much more solid than Vlaar and Clark in a flat back 4.
If we did revert to a back 4 I would go with Vlaar and baker and push Clark into a defensive midfield role alongside Westwood with bannan more advanced.
Clark's probably played less than 30 games as a centre back in the first team. Asking him to organise an entire back five is a bit much
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Well it is the pantomine season.
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
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Oh no, not this old chestnut again.
1. Anyone can "claim" money for whatever they want, it doesn't make the claim valid.
2. The club and MON reached a settlement. Nobody "won" or "lost" anything.
You'll have to explain to me how someone who walks out of their job and yet successfully claims for compensation from their employer hasn't won.
Because we don't know what he was claiming and don't know what we were offering. We also don't know what the contractual situation was. In the end it was settled by the two parties.
According to somebody in the know, they settled at roughly halfway between what Lerner wanted to pay (£0) and what O'Neill was claiming (£3m).
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
Isn't it fairly well accepted that Ellis identified O'Neill for Lerner, and that O'Neill agreed to become manager once he knew the takeover was nailed on? Which doesn't contradict DCF's account of things at all. Lerner's idea for manager was Klinsmann wasn't it?
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
Isn't it fairly well accepted that Ellis identified O'Neill for Lerner, and that O'Neill agreed to become manager once he knew the takeover was nailed on? Which doesn't contradict DCF's account of things at all. Lerner's idea for manager was Klinsmann wasn't it?
Until Messs. Fear and Nazir advised him otherwise.
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I blame myself for caring. It's a bloody disease. I worry about Villa more than I worry about how my kids are doing at school, or whether my wife is happy, or about the quality of my work or the state of my pension or my health or the ozone layer.
If I could press a button that stopped me supporting Aston Villa I would probably do it.
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Probably.
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I blame Evil Edna. And the Soup Dragon.
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Probably.
Never going again, ever, ever, well maybe...
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I blame myself for caring. It's a bloody disease. I worry about Villa more than I worry about how my kids are doing at school, or whether my wife is happy, or about the quality of my work or the state of my pension or my health or the ozone layer.
If I could press a button that stopped me supporting Aston Villa I would probably do it.
It is impossible to make a well reasoned case as to why anyone should be a football supporter.
It is anachronistic, and politically, morally and existentially, very dubious, to say the least.
The surrender of the individual's moral agency, the worship of money, no matter its source, and the game's link with totalitarianism, all add up to a very toxic set of values, which bear no relationship to the morality of those who started the clubs and founded the league.
Once you start adding in the fact that something so shallow and morally dubious is allowed to determine an individual's psychological well-being, which amounts to a state of self-inflicted emotional autism, there seems no justification to take up such an idiotic pastime.
But it probably amounts to a kind of destructive co-dependence, which is well-known to be almost impossible to escape from.
So I understand your problem.
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Sir Alex for recommending McLeish.
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"It is anachronistic, and politically, morally and existentially, very dubious, to say the least."
The surrender of the individual's moral agency, the worship of money, no matter its source, and the game's link with totalitarianism, all add up to a very toxic set of values, which bear no relationship to the morality of those who started the clubs and founded the league."
Just what i was thinking- Took the words right out of my mouth!
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He sent a letter to Randy, didn't he?
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
what has that got to do with the statement that i made and dredge what up? plain fact, oneill would only come if doug wasnt anywhere near the frigging place.
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I blame myself for caring. It's a bloody disease. I worry about Villa more than I worry about how my kids are doing at school, or whether my wife is happy, or about the quality of my work or the state of my pension or my health or the ozone layer.
If I could press a button that stopped me supporting Aston Villa I would probably do it.
Yes,oh yes.I don't worry so much now and I'm less fanatical being older, my away matches tend to be Wembley( glory hunter ).But I realise now it's an addiction.So,I blame my dad.
Recently,I blame the unbelievable bad transfer deals of the previous 3 managers.
Write a list ,it's like your top 10 of unwanted Xmas presents.
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I blame PeterWithesShin. He clearly hasn't been eating his half time admiral's pie.
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
what has that got to do with the statement that i made and dredge what up? plain fact, oneill would only come if doug wasnt anywhere near the frigging place.
Calling Bad English to the thread.
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I don't think he can type at the moment!
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
what has that got to do with the statement that i made and dredge what up? plain fact, oneill would only come if doug wasnt anywhere near the frigging place.
Calling Bad English to the thread.
yawwnnn
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Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
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I blame Evil Edna.
He's not the best of full backs, but that's a bit strong.
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Bono. I'm always angry with him.
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I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
what has that got to do with the statement that i made and dredge what up? plain fact, oneill would only come if doug wasnt anywhere near the frigging place.
Calling Bad English to the thread.
yawwnnn
Anybody who uses the the word fact should dragged behind the number 7 bus,and driven at speed up the Expressway.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
-
I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
what has that got to do with the statement that i made and dredge what up? plain fact, oneill would only come if doug wasnt anywhere near the frigging place.
Calling Bad English to the thread.
yawwnnn
Anybody who uses the the word fact should dragged behind the number 7 bus,and driven at speed up the Expressway.
seems a tad extreme. however, if it makes you feel better to say that, be my guest.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
What has he said that isn't true? And we've been shite for most of the season, if you hadn't realised.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
What has he said that isn't true? And we've been shite for most of the season, if you hadn't realised.
Nothing.It's just I would have liked to have seen his input when we were beating Man City,Norwich and Liverpool too and going 6 games unbeaten,through to a semi final with everything to feel poitive about
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
What has he said that isn't true? And we've been shite for most of the season, if you hadn't realised.
Nothing.It's just I would have liked to have seen his input when we were beating Man City,Norwich and Liverpool too and going 6 games unbeaten,through to a semi final with everything to feel poitive about
Well, seeing as he last posted in June, he's missed far more shite than good stuff, so this notion that Greg only posts when we do badly is bollocks. He's have been here for all but roughly four games if that was the case.
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Post when we're losing, Greg only posts when we're losing - only kidding gnasher - I for one am delighted to see you back mate!
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Well said Greg and great to have you back mate....
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Post when we're losing, Greg only posts when we're losing - only kidding gnasher - I for one am delighted to see you back mate!
You better hope we don't start winning or get to Wembley then
-
I spoke to Mr.Ellis at Hannover and thanked him for getting O'Neill to join us.
I also got O'Neill's autograph on three programmes for that game, having called him 'David'. On
the third David, he said 'who the fuck's David?' I said 'you are'. It was a combination of a bier festival in the town and the O' bit in the name that he shared with David O'Leary.
How I regret the moment that I thanked Mr.Ellis for that appointment, although he was only doing
what we all thought was right at the time.
doug ellis getting the credit for o neill coming here is the biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard. i was tipped off by a mate of john robertsons about 6 weeks before the appointment that o neill was in ohio discussing the strategy when randy took over. he would never have come if ellis was chairman.
Where were you when I advised you that O'Neill was about to go? Shall we dredge that up?
Why did O'Neill really go? You must know all this. Don't keep it to yourself.
what has that got to do with the statement that i made and dredge what up? plain fact, oneill would only come if doug wasnt anywhere near the frigging place.
Dredge up what you had to say at the time, having such a wonderful ITK.
We could have stopped all the speculation.
-
Post when we're losing, Greg only posts when we're losing - only kidding gnasher - I for one am delighted to see you back mate!
You better hope we don't start winning or get to Wembley then
Already bought the superglue to Sabotage his keyboard just in case.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
To be fair, we've been on a pretty bad run for most of the last three years!
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
To be fair, we've been on a pretty bad run for most of the last three years!
Not as bad as losing 15-0 in a week though
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Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
Can't fault the amount of money Lerners put in. Its shocking we are spending so much and fighting relegation battles. It makes me imagine an aerial view of villa park with one of those black holes and money disappearing into it.
-
Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
Can't fault the amount of money Lerners put in. Its shocking we are spending so much and fighting relegation battles. It makes me imagine an aerial view of villa park with one of those black holes and money disappearing into it.
Pity he let the Poison Dwarf squander so much of it. Every manager since has had to suffer for that twat.
-
Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
Can't fault the amount of money Lerners put in. Its shocking we are spending so much and fighting relegation battles. It makes me imagine an aerial view of villa park with one of those black holes and money disappearing into it.
Pity he let the Poison Dwarf squander so much of it. Every manager since has had to suffer for that twat.
Bit harsh, Mcleish spent about £20m on nzogbia, Hutton and given and Hutton and nzogbia have both proved poor value , as did makoun and Ireland who both arrived after mon , so there's the best part of £40m spent .
O Neill wasted a fortune I agree, but he's not the only one .
Amazing to see where Everton are and the squad they have on far far less money than we spent on recent years , they rarely make bad signings where we have made loads in recent years.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
What has he said that isn't true? And we've been shite for most of the season, if you hadn't realised.
There's nothing there that's 'true', it's just the usual miserablist subjective garbage.
You favour it because you're in full sacrifice mode.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
What has he said that isn't true? And we've been shite for most of the season, if you hadn't realised.
There's nothing there that's 'true', it's just the usual miserablist subjective garbage.
You favour it because you're in full sacrifice mode.
There ARE facts there LeeB you daft old headinthesandanista you, such as Lerner and Faulkner running the club, and Lerner taking advice from Ferguson (I wonder if that letter is still safely tucked up in his safe?). The rest, if not exactly "facts", are at least hard to argue with, unless you actually believe that Faulkner is doing a good job or that Lerner knows how to run a football club. But nobody's that dim, surely?
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Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough.
I don't even credit him with that sort of naivety.
He's just doing his masters bidding. Lerner might have dreams of replicating Ajax's approach. Or Everton's.
Faulkner probably doesn't give a fcuk. A few soundbites here and there, but ultimately out of his depth. There probably is logic to the decision to give a rookie Personnel Manager at MBNA the responsibility of running one of the country's biggest clubs. Fcuked if I know what it is though.
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I think you answered your own question. The logic being that he is someone who Lerner trusts to do his bidding.
-
Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
Can't fault the amount of money Lerners put in. Its shocking we are spending so much and fighting relegation battles. It makes me imagine an aerial view of villa park with one of those black holes and money disappearing into it.
Pity he let the Poison Dwarf squander so much of it. Every manager since has had to suffer for that twat.
Bit harsh, Mcleish spent about £20m on nzogbia, Hutton and given and Hutton and nzogbia have both proved poor value , as did makoun and Ireland who both arrived after mon , so there's the best part of £40m spent .
O Neill wasted a fortune I agree, but he's not the only one .
Amazing to see where Everton are and the squad they have on far far less money than we spent on recent years , they rarely make bad signings where we have made loads in recent years.
MON spent a lot of money on assembling a very average squad with a few quality players. Take away those quality players and the squad was shown to be what it was, very average.
Successive managers have inheritted this legacy and convinced Lerner that they could buy a few players to get the team back to where it was. Add to this, the injury situation that the current and previous two managers have had to put up with and you can see why we are where we are. Some said at the time that MON was lucky in that final season with injuries and lucky 1-0 wins. It seems as though we are now paying for it.
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I blame the MON era. Spent alot of money on some average players. At the time I wasnt to bothered as we was doing ok but looking back at it now there was some real money wasted and bad decisions. Also lerner has to be blamed for draining any positive feeling from the fans with two dire managerial appointments.
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Martin O'Neill and Paul Faulkner, one for identifying and buying such a load of shit, and one for agreeing it.
-
Don't think it matters anymore. Threads like this or similar have been on here for the last 3 years with all of us (me in particular) dishing out the blame. Bottom line is only 3 of those names on the list still have an input on how aston villa are run.
Lambert seems to have been dealt the same shoddy hand as the last two encumbents - that doesn't excuse his piss poor organisation and tactics - he needs to get a grip - fast.
Faulkner is just an overpromoted idiot with his dreams of a Villa side winning titles/making money on the back of a youth squad who clearly aren't good enough. If it was possible Paul, don't you think the likes of Man U, Chelsea, and Citeh would be doing it? Or do you think they like spending billions on other club's players? Lerner's new years resolution should be to get someone living on planet earth in and jettison the prat.
Lerner. Well where do you start? I can't work out if he's stupid, just knows nothing about football, or he's got some sort of Brewster's millions thing going on. Taking advice from Ferguson hints at a combination of the first two options. God help us.
Well said Greg.
I have to agree.
Yes,you can always rely on Greg to appear to tell us how shit things are whenever we hit a bad run
What has he said that isn't true? And we've been shite for most of the season, if you hadn't realised.
There's nothing there that's 'true', it's just the usual miserablist subjective garbage.
You favour it because you're in full sacrifice mode.
There ARE facts there LeeB you daft old headinthesandanista you, such as Lerner and Faulkner running the club, and Lerner taking advice from Ferguson (I wonder if that letter is still safely tucked up in his safe?). The rest, if not exactly "facts", are at least hard to argue with, unless you actually believe that Faulkner is doing a good job or that Lerner knows how to run a football club. But nobody's that dim, surely?
I'm having 'headinthesandinista', that's superb.
The truth is, I don't know exactly what Faulkner's remit is for his job, and with whom to apportion blame for the things that have gone wrong.
But I also know there is no hard and fast rules about how to run a football club, and in most cases success will be stumbled upon, or accrued by throwing vast sums of money at it until it works.
You know, maybe the chairman and CEO have learned quite a bit about how to run the club in the past couple of years, and maybe we'll be better off for it going forward.
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All of the above to various degrees. I think O Neill's outdated methods, tunnel vision, combined with Randy's naivity are most to blame with our current plight. I don't blame the last two managers as much. McLeish was horrendous granted, but he was an appointment that promised little more. We knew it, Randy didn't. Lamberts made a lot of errors and seems in many ways over his head, but I can appreciate his vision, even if he's yet to find the right formula to make that vision happen.
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All of the above to various degrees. I think O Neill's outdated methods, tunnel vision, combined with Randy's naivity are most to blame with our current plight. I don't blame the last two managers as much. McLeish was horrendous granted, but he was an appointment that promised little more. We knew it, Randy didn't. Lamberts made a lot of errors and seems in many ways over his head, but I can appreciate his vision, even if he's yet to find the right formula to make that vision happen.
As I've said before, I knows it's easy with the benefit of hindsight, but MON's appointment was the wrong choice. He had been out of managing in the Premier League for some years and when he returned, his methods were basically outdated and limited. A top-class foreign manager would've been a much better choice, particularly with the big money available for transfers at the time.
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All of the above to various degrees. I think O Neill's outdated methods, tunnel vision, combined with Randy's naivity are most to blame with our current plight. I don't blame the last two managers as much. McLeish was horrendous granted, but he was an appointment that promised little more. We knew it, Randy didn't. Lamberts made a lot of errors and seems in many ways over his head, but I can appreciate his vision, even if he's yet to find the right formula to make that vision happen.
As I've said before, I knows it's easy with the benefit of hindsight, but MON's appointment was the wrong choice. He had been out of managing in the Premier League for some years and when he returned, his methods were basically outdated and limited. A top-class foreign manager would've been a much better choice, particularly with the big money available for transfers at the time.
So we shouldn't have gone for o Neill because he had been away from the premier league too long , but we should have gone for a foreign manager who probably had never managed in the premier league?
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.
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Villa's losses could make Lerner cut his
At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out. Stuart James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/31/premier-league-10-talking-points
Can't fault the amount of money Lerners put in. Its shocking we are spending so much and fighting relegation battles. It makes me imagine an aerial view of villa park with one of those black holes and money disappearing into it.
Pity he let the Poison Dwarf squander so much of it. Every manager since has had to suffer for that twat.
Bit harsh, Mcleish spent about £20m on nzogbia, Hutton and given and Hutton and nzogbia have both proved poor value , as did makoun and Ireland who both arrived after mon , so there's the best part of £40m spent .
O Neill wasted a fortune I agree, but he's not the only one .
Amazing to see where Everton are and the squad they have on far far less money than we spent on recent years , they rarely make bad signings where we have made loads in recent years.
MON spent a lot of money on assembling a very average squad with a few quality players. Take away those quality players and the squad was shown to be what it was, very average.
Successive managers have inheritted this legacy and convinced Lerner that they could buy a few players to get the team back to where it was. Add to this, the injury situation that the current and previous two managers have had to put up with and you can see why we are where we are. Some said at the time that MON was lucky in that final season with injuries and lucky 1-0 wins. It seems as though we are now paying for it.
If the squad that got us 3 consecutive top 6 finishes was "very average" I'd hate to think what you'd class our squad as of now.
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MON spent a lot of money on assembling a very average squad with a few quality players. Take away those quality players and the squad was shown to be what it was, very average.
Successive managers have inheritted this legacy and convinced Lerner that they could buy a few players to get the team back to where it was. Add to this, the injury situation that the current and previous two managers have had to put up with and you can see why we are where we are. Some said at the time that MON was lucky in that final season with injuries and lucky 1-0 wins. It seems as though we are now paying for it.
If the squad that got us 3 consecutive top 6 finishes was "very average" I'd hate to think what you'd class our squad as of now.
We had 3 top 6 finishes is because we had a spinkling of quality as I said. We sold the quality and the remainder have been shown to be average.
As you raised something to perpetuate your continual dig at the club, rather than comment on the topic in question, I will at least show courtesy in answering.
Yes, the current squad is very average and weak in a number of areas but the young players will improve with experience. Also, Lambert has only has one transfer window to transform a squad of underachievers. The rebuilding of the club will take 3 or 4 years to put it on strong foundations for the future.
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I blame the futile and unhelpful mentality of always seeking to find someone to blame.
No.
I do.
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We are in a mess, we have just been easily beaten by a 4th Division team. This on the back of thrashings by Chelsea Spurs and the mighty Wigan.
It is pretty obvious that many of the players are not good enough to wear the shirt.
So is it Lerners penny pinching or Lamberts misguded faith in his ability to turn lower league kids into Premier League players?
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They're clearly both to blame to some extent.
Maybe you should be asking who is most to blame?
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Faulkner should be on this poll as well.
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Haven't we just had a "who is to blame" thread?
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Lerner-sole as ,the one common denominator.
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Lerner. No one else, just Randy fuckin Lerner and his 3 consecutive years of cutbacks. Sell your best players, replace them with lower league shit, dress them up with all this "young and hungry" bullshit and hope you fool the masses.
Doesn't matter who the manager is because we simply won't pay the going rate for PL standard players. Until we do we'll continue to spiral towards the Championship.
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I think the plan that Lambert has is a good one. It is not going to bring instant success but nurture future talent. If we can stay in the prem for this season then i think we will be a very good young Prem team for next season, it is just taking time to get used to the fact that we will be dicing with death for the whole season. If we stay up and turn tonight's result around and beat the saints and the Albion then i think we will be on the right track. If we stay up by a few points, i still think we will be on the right track. Should we get relegated, then if we have not won our first ten matches on the bounce, i would ask big questions. But we are Villa, and the previous sentance will never have to be analysed. WE ARE NOT GOING FUCKING DOWN. WE ARE THE VILLA, NOT SHA.
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Lerner. No one else, just Randy fuckin Lerner and his 3 consecutive years of cutbacks. Sell your best players, replace them with lower league shit, dress them up with all this "young and hungry" bullshit and hope you fool the masses.
Doesn't matter who the manager is because we simply won't pay the going rate for PL standard players. Until we do we'll continue to spiral towards the Championship.
What do you reckon on 20 Million plus in Jan, at least, to keep us up ? I think it will take that much, and some sneaky loan signings.
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A bit of both. Lerner is generally responsible for the overall direction this club is taking. But a better manager then Lambert would have us playing better and higher up in the league.
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Lerner for being clueless, listening to idiots, believing you can survive with wigan type players but Villa type running costs
Lambert for buying into the "Plan" and for his shocking tactics, organisation and naivety.
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edit
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Injuries, luck, O'Neill, the supporters. I'm being facetious obviously but they've all been blamed in the past.
Quite plainly it's a combination of Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert. Lerner and Faulkner (no-one knows where one's responsibilities end and the other's begin) between them have created the mess that Lambert has inherited, while the manager is manifestly failing to get the best out of the players, including several of the ones he bought. As I said on the match thread, there is simply no excuse for a Premier League side to lose 3-1 to a side from League 2.
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Lambert. Absolutely.
It's his side. He identified his purchases. He's responsible for the coaching, tactics and motivation.
TSM would not have lost that game tonight. Even with the same side. And the same same bloody chairman for that matter.
P.s I was -and am still - pro Lambert.
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Lambert. Absolutely.
It's his side. He identified his purchases. He's responsible for the coaching, tactics and motivation.
TSM would not have lost that game tonight. Even with the same side. And the same same bloody chairman for that matter.
P.s I was -and am still - pro Lambert.
Is the correct answer.
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Lerner. No one else, just Randy fuckin Lerner and his 3 consecutive years of cutbacks. Sell your best players, replace them with lower league shit, dress them up with all this "young and hungry" bullshit and hope you fool the masses.
Doesn't matter who the manager is because we simply won't pay the going rate for PL standard players. Until we do we'll continue to spiral towards the Championship.
What do you reckon on 20 Million plus in Jan, at least, to keep us up ? I think it will take that much, and some sneaky loan signings.
That's what's needed.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3035187,00.html
You can't defend like that at corners.How long have we heard that for?
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3035187,00.html
You can't defend like that at corners.How long have we heard that for?
yep. its not rocket science and yet he can't seem to grasp the idea of marking at corners, or the players can't. Not too happy about him wanting us to "fly out the blocks" in the 2nd leg either. With our defence we could be 2-2 by half time.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3035187,00.html
You can't defend like that at corners.How long have we heard that for?
yep. its not rocket science and yet he can't seem to grasp the idea of marking at corners, or the players can't. Not too happy about him wanting us to "fly out the blocks" in the 2nd leg either. With our defence we could be 2-2 by half time.
I might be wrong, but this season I was under the impression we had been a hell of a lot better at defending against corners compared to the last two. We just can't seem to stop teams waltzing through the middle instead.
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The failings of the last few years lay firmly with Lerner and Faulkner. You could also argue a case for MON for his part in the transfer dealings and TSM for just being generally shite and bringing a dark cloud of negativity over the club. The problems on the pitch right now are Lamberts doing...his transfers, his players and his tactics. The only one I wouldnt portion any blame to over the last few years is Houllier.
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Lambert, for all his success at Norwich, has had one season of top flight management experience. I'm not sure he's ever had experience of managing a team through a relegation battle. Add to that he's having to clean up two years worth of mishaps and do it all on a budget - it's a lot to ask. At the moment, like many of our youngsters, it doesn't look like he's ready for it.
In the summer, while I was very interested in Solksjaer I accepted that Lambert represented what I thought would be a safe pair of hands: not quite as exciting or exotic as OGS but someone a bit safer, a bit more reliable and someone more likely to deliver a nice boring mid-table finish, which is what we sorely need.
But some of our defeats have been alarming, not just in their frequency but in their scale. We're not just losing, we're getting humiliated on a regular basis.
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The failings of the last few years lay firmly with Lerner and Faulkner. You could also argue a case for MON for his part in the transfer dealings and TSM for just being generally shite and bringing a dark cloud of negativity over the club. The problems on the pitch right now are Lamberts doing...his transfers, his players and his tactics. The only one I wouldnt portion any blame to over the last few years is Houllier.
Top post. Houiller and Gary McAllister were in retrospect a brief interlude of professional competence. Not world beaters by any stretch and they were tone deaf when it cames to fans but they were Premier League quality who could be relied upon to get us back to mid table mediocrity. I never thought I would look back on those days with fondness but I do today.
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I was wondering if people's opinion had changed and that Lambert was now more to blame or whether we can still say that Lerner is the problem.
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I was wondering if people's opinion had changed and that Lambert was now more to blame or whether we can still say that Lerner is the problem.
Lerner is the disease. Lambert just a very unpleasant symptom.
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Randy Lerner clearly is too blame. Firstly he let Mon spend money unchecked and most of the buys sat on the bench on big wages. The only buys which can be considered to be a success was Milner, Ashley Young, Downing. However, When Lerner sanctioned these players transfers out, we did not replace them with players on the same or better level. Look at Tottham they sold luka Modric and replaced him with Dembele, Dempsey, which is fair to say are near Modric's level. We got 60 million for the players sold, not much re-invested, some has but not to the quality or near it.
Now I do not believe Villa is in Major debt, lerner made big profits on the players mentioned above. Which you would hope have been re-invested in the club. Villa part itself has to be worth alot of money. I believe Lerner not being a football man and having Paul Faulkner who is not a football man has been influenced to run Villa like a business. But in the Premier league you have to keep spending 40 million plus to keep improving.
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We currently have on the books the following experienced players, Given, Marshall, Warnock, Hutton, Dunne, Petrov, Makoun, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Bent. These 10 players are on combined more than the remaining 27 players on the books i would guess, and currently offer us the following, 1 first teamer who's playing ok but not ripping up any trees (N'Zog), and 3 reserves who play occasionally (Given, Bent, Ireland). Most haven't kicked a ball in anger this season. Ok some are unavailable due to work permit/illness/injury and it's debatable whether or not we would be better off with a few more of them available, or using those that are more frequently (Petrov being fit is a no brainer for starters). Marshall wont be on much and we may not be paying Petrov and Makoun's wages this season, but I guess we may have to for the rest of Makoun's contract? If you stripped these 10 players out of the club we would not be much worse off playing-wise, as I said there's only one or two from this list currently contributing and we could still field a reasonable 11 with subs and a few in reserve. I think Lerner, Lambert and co will just be thinking if only we can get this list down to 4 or 3 or 2 and eventually 0 then we can go and sign 3/4/5 good players in key areas to add to our young squad and give us a chance of really kicking on. If we signed 3 players now on big money and still went down, and still had these 10 players to shift on top in the summer the club could be screwed for may years (albeit I think 4 are out of contract in the summer anyway). They are a combination of M'ON, GH and McLeish signings and our inability to ship them out is what's undoubtedly holding this club back. If we stay up and slim this list down to 2 or 3 by the start of next season I can see us flourish under Lambert, if not they combined are a major factor in our demise, along with the managers who signed them, Lerner/Faulkner and the current manager who should be getting more out of the current squad. Bad luck with injuries and so on hasn't helped either.
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Its always the parents
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Blaming MO'N for the current plight is pretty pathetic. With the squad he left us with, having Bent added to it should have seen us still knocking on the door for Europe with the right management that year. Instead we got Houllier and the season was a farce.
The debacle that has happened since has nothing to do with MON.
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He started it.
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I think with the current problems this is a good thread to discuss who is most to blame about Villa's current problems.
This article sums things up very well:
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/astonvilla/id/1503?&cc=5739
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It is always easier to sack a manager than get in new owners.
IMO unless our present financial circumstances change replacing lambert will just be cosmetic unless the board pull a mini Guardiola out from Europe....and nothing in the last 4 years suggests they will do that.
We need new ownership but that's not easy.
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Depressingly ominous and accurate summary
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A good article. First time I've seen reference to a potential takeover outside of a fan site.
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A good article. First time I've seen reference to a potential takeover outside of a fan site.
The writer I imagine gathered information from a number fan sites regarding takeover rumours. I think he is pretty accurate though in capturing the general mood. I also see Kendrick has an article about the away fans. It's all very reminiscent of how it ended for McLeish.
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The final paragraph f that article is depressingly accurate.
It's as if Villa have just about given up; there's a malaise from the top right through to the dressing room. Relegation may be avoided due to the failure of other clubs, but a happy ending for Villa feels unlikely without a further change of ownership, manager or both.
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One part Lerner, one part Faulkner, and one part Lambert. That is our cocktail for failure. I couldn't put the blame purely on one element. It's a mix from top to bottom at the club. Broken promises, naivety and ineptitude all round.
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Thatcher.
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O'Neill.
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I'm annoyed Mainly with Lerner as I don't think he's help Lambert one little bit, it's fair enough giving Lambert £40 million since he's been here but if you only allow him to offer players minimum wage (by the Premier League standards) then Lambert has no choice but to get the players he's brought.
But I'm also annoyed at Lambert for saying stupid things like we won't need 40 points to stay up, that is a ridiculous thing to say and will only ever end up making the players complacent which is what has happened. Also for saying yesterday that he's not convinced we're in a relegation fight when it's clear that we are.
So I'd say I'm 55% angry with Lerner and 45% angry with Lambert.
I'm not quite in the Lambert out camp just yet but I'm not in the Lambert in camp either.
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I think if Lerner had kept Steve Stride on at the Villa we wouldn't be in so much shit now.I am not saying we would in the Champions League, but some of the piss poor decisions made by this board surely wouldn't have happened with an experienced football man onboard.
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Steve Stride left because he wanted to. Nothing could have been done to persuade him to stay on.
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O'Neill.
As much as he dropped us right in it, he can't be held responsible for the terrible judgement subsequently displayed by those in charge.
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The buck stops with Lerner ...............the 'bright future scarf' is gathering dust in my wardrobe
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But I'm also annoyed at Lambert for saying stupid things like we won't need 40 points to stay up, that is a ridiculous thing to say and will only ever end up making the players complacent which is what has happened. Also for saying yesterday that he's not convinced we're in a relegation fight when it's clear that we are.
Fair comment. I guess Lambert was trying to take pressure off the players, but yes, it could take away an urgency that Villa need right now.
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I am angry with Lambert. Randy is way too quiet and that doesn't help but Lambert HAS been backed with 40million quid. How many of our players would you select week in week out? Guzan, Benteke, Vlaar, Delph. Not one other player would get in to a proper Villa team. Lambert has successfully lowered the overall quality of the squad. That takes some doing in just 22 months and Vlaar and Delph really ain't that great. Lambert has failed to cover relevant positions when we could all see that we needed particular places covering. I wanted him in as Manager, I was wrong.
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I blame fanzines/ I'm angry with Heroes & Villains.
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I am angry with all these little tin pot piss pot football clubs who keep humiliating us. When the mighty Aston Villa rises again, and we WILL rise again of that you can be sure, I want revenge on Sheffield United, Bradford, Millwall, Fulham, Crystal Palace and all the other upstarts. I want them to drink from the poison cup of humiliation.
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I am angry with all these little tin pot piss pot football clubs who keep humiliating us. When the mighty Aston Villa rises again, and we WILL rise again of that you can be sure, I want revenge on Sheffield United, Bradford, Millwall, Fulham, Crystal Palace and all the other upstarts. I want them to drink from the poison cup of humiliation.
Now you're talking!
I look forward to our 8-0 away win at Stamford Bridge, Messi x3, Ronaldo x3, Bale x2
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Are all Lerner's appointments bad managers or is there another reason we are dire year on year?
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Chelsea 0 Villa 8 Benteke x 3 Kozak x3 Robinson x 2.
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November 2015. FACR1.
Bradford 1 Villa 3 ( Bent, Hutton, Holt ) :-\
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I blame Garry Parker and Dean Saunders. Had Parker not missed an open goal at Norwich or Deano kept hitting the post vs Spurs, both in 1993, we'd have won the first Premier League and followed it up with the league and cup double the following season, eventually winning the Champions League in 1999, many other cups after that before Sir Ron Atkinson finally stepped down in 2013.
Whoa.... what happened there...............