Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: mattjpa on November 06, 2012, 01:36:01 PM
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....Has resumed training. No doubt he will be reaching match fitness within the next couple of weeks and pushing for a start.
My Question is; When fit, should he go back into the starting line up or should we be looking to the future and keep Clark in the team?
I do think Vlaar and Dunne could work well together and with the lack of experience in the team at the moment could provide us with a bit of stability.
On the other hand Clark has done well when fit. Thoughts?
(Im not sure how to add a poll on this but would be interesting)
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Vlaar and Clark have formed a good partnership so Lambert might not want to break that but might try him game with Vlaar in FA Cup depending on draws.
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great to have him back in contention, albeit a couple of weeks away. i think he will be essential for the season but no need to break up the vlaar/clark partnership at the moment.
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With what's happened over the last couple of weeks, it's become clear that we really can't have too many fit senior defenders. Good to get him in the squad again.
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Id like to hope that now the Dunne-Collins axis of evil has been broken up, some of the recent mistakes that have blighted him will disapear...
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Clark WILL be suspended at some point given his talent for collecting yellow cards. Nice to have an experienced pro as back up.
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Ease Dunne back into the team when we need him, he could still have a job to do
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Maybe dunne and Vlaar with Clark at left back could be an option.
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Results will ultimately dictate that.
If we lose the next few (by no means unlikely) there will be widespread calls to get him back in.
His fitness and conditioning issues have been well documented in the past. For a pro footballer to come back to pre season training in the state he was in in 2010 was disgraceful.
But when he returned to the side at the tail end of the campaign last year, he settled us down. We were still inept going forward, but looked more secure at the back and -just about- got over the line.
Clark might be the longterm solution (he might not, like a few on here, I actually think Baker looks the better option) but every point will be crucial this year, so the short> medium term takes priority. If Dunne's inclusion keeps us away from the bottom 3 this campaign, that should be the only consideration.
If the season actually turns out to be better than a mere fight for survival, and we're comfortable in Feb/March, then by all means give Clark and some of the others a chance to play their way into a bit of form.
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I happen to think Baker has done really well when he's played this season.
Personally, like KG above, I think Baker could prove to be better center half than Clark.
Clark reminds me, at times, like Gareth Barry
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I would like to see Clark in with KEA in midfield so either Dunne or Baker would need to fill in at CB.
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I thought a big part of our wee upturn in form around Christmas and New Year last season was with Clark as a DM.
His use of the ball is tidy, without being hugely imaginative and -whilst he lacks a bit of strength compared to the standard CM, he's plenty big enough for further up the pitch.
We also didn't look as suspect from set pieces with him in there - not because he personally was a demon at defending them, more just through sheer weight of numbers. Dunne, Collins, Cuellar, Clark and yes, even Ivanhoe were infinitely more useful in that regard than just Collins and Dunne -as had often been the case over the past two years.
But Lambert was quite clear that he doesn't see Clark as a midfielder at all, when he spoke in pre season. So that puts the kybosh on that.
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As others have said we can't have enough experienced Premier league players available to us, we have precious few at the moment. Richard Dunne helped keep us up at the back end of last season, he has the strenghth we seem to miss against the more physical sides like Stoke and even the Baggies.I've missed him whereas I haven't missed Collins at all.Ultimately Lambert will soon show us what he thinks , my guess is he will play a big part for us this season.
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Dunne should come straight back in alongside Vlaar to gaurantee our survival, but if we are thinking of the future, then we should stick with Baker or Clark (Baker for me) but it is abit risky.
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The defence is improving, Vlaar has been really good these last few games.
Let's see how we do in these next few games, I thik Dunne might be needed then.
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....Has resumed training. No doubt he will be reaching match fitness within the next couple of weeks
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5015/7efc0b3fnotsureifseriou.jpg)
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Lambert strikes me as the kind of boss who isn't afraid of telling a few home truths. Maybe Dunne will respond to that
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If he's fit and ready to play, he should be back in the team.
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First choice for me. Wish he was back for the next 3 games. My guess is most people will be clamouring for him to be in the side after those games.
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It's all well looking towards the future but we need to take care of the present. At the moment we're 17th and deservedly so. I wouldn't rule out Reading,QPR or Southampton getting a couple of wins to go above us in the next three weeks. For me Dunne should come straight back into the side as he is the best centre half at the club. Vlaar has made a decent start but he's also been found wanting at times. I think having an experienced player alonside him rather than three rookies will help him settle into the Premiership. Clark I like, but I still think that he's best suited to a midfield role at this stage in his career. The amount of cards he picks up, of which some have been ridiculous is a part of his game that needs addressing pretty sharpish.
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Lambert strikes me as the kind of boss who isn't afraid of telling a few home truths. Maybe Dunne will respond to that
Wasn't there a story that when lambert first rocked up at body moor he asked the players why they had such a poor season and they were all blaming the tactics and mcleish and he says to them: no it was because you were all on the piss! Could swear I heard something along those lines on here?
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'Fighting in night-clubs - that's why you were shit' is what I heard he said, and I posted it on here.
I wouldn't swear to it but thought it was a good quote anyway.
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That was more or less the quote made to James Collins when Lambert turned up. PL said it at the supporters forum thing at the start of the season.
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4th choice for me behind Baker, Clark and Vlaar.
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Will be good to have an experience pro back in the squad .
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A good player to have around if he is fit and focused. If not, he's no use to us.
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Experienced squad player for me but waits his turn. No new contract offer either.
The defence (LB) aside is not really the issue - rather the lightwight midfield.
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I disagree Rob. This is the weakest defensive unit I can recall watching at Villa. Without wishing to write Bennett off I don't think he's up to this level yet. Lowton is a bit better, especially going forward but defensively he looks naive. Vlaar's been caught ball watching on numerous ocassions and Clark is a magnet for yellow cards. All have potential to be good Premiership players but as for the here and now I think we look vulnerable against any side who get the ball out wide and attack that area between centre half and full back.
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Lambert strikes me as the kind of boss who isn't afraid of telling a few home truths. Maybe Dunne will respond to that
Hold on to your seats!
Unless both Clark and Baker bomb out so spectacularly it puts us in danger of relegation it makes no sense at all to bring Dunne back. Both will make mistakes and probably cost us points, but they will learn nothing by being out of the team.
Injuries aside, I wouldn't want to risk putting him in the first team.
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Baker is alright, man. Needs a run of games.
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Baker is alright, man. Needs a run of games.
To me Baker has looked a very good centre back in the making in the run of games he's had so far.
Such a pleasant change not to eat my liver every time we concede a corner.
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I think Clark is still too inexperienced to go through the season without being inconsistent and we need to get through this season with as much assuredness as possible. Which is why I think Vlaar needs Dunne next to him. Someone he can learn from and who he knows will have his back. Although he is captain he needs someone who can take some of the responsibility from him. Remembering that Vlaar needs time to settle in to the new country, different game etc etc I wouldn't put him in straight away but on the bench. But with a view to have him up to speed and starting asap.
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That's how I see it too.
Agree with the good reviews on Baker as well.
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Baker is alright, man. Needs a run of games.
I agree, much better than Clark for me.
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IMO Baker's the more solid option now, whereas Clark is more cultured. Let's hope that in years to come they can compliment each other and become a formidable pairing for The Villa.
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Hope so, one would need to be happy playing on the right though which might not come naturally, but i suppose plenty of good centre half pairings over the years have both been right footers so it should be no different.
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Hope so, one would need to be happy playing on the right though which might not come naturally, but i suppose plenty of good centre half pairings over the years have both been right footers so it should be no different.
I still find it incredible that a professional football can have a "bad" foot. ...all it takes is practice.
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Baker is alright, man. Needs a run of games.
Ideally Baker could do with going on loan to get that run of games, but I don't think we have enough options in the squad for that to happen.
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has it been said when he's expected back? and am i right in thinking his contract is up this summer?
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Dunne has to come in ahead of Clark when he's fit.
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It'd be nice if Dunne's return means that we could loan Baker for a few months, maybe the end of the season.
Beyond Dunne, Clark and Concrete there is Herd and Licaj who could step in.
It'd be a risk but the long term benefits could be huge as the need to replace Dunne next year is less urgent, or at least we'd have a better awareness of how much we need to spend.
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Dunne has to come in ahead of Clark when he's fit.
I'd consider it if Clark wakes up tomorrow and his legs have fallen off.
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Dunne has to come in ahead of Clark when he's fit.
I'd consider it if Clark wakes up tomorrow and his legs have fallen off.
He defended like they had on Saturday.
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Did he? I thought he did alright. The first goal was down to Stevens playing Chimichanga onside and although there was the odd moment, I thought Clark and Vlaar did well. Rooney and van Persie hardly touched the ball for most of the game.
He's not the complete defender yet but I'm encouraged by Clark. And yes, I like Baker too. We need (at least) one more but Dunne coming straight back in doesn't seem right to me. It will be nice to have some experience to call on though.
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I think the issue of Clark over Dunne is an example of what Lambert is trying to do with us as a whole. Yes, Dunne could come in and we'd be a bit more solid and cobble together a few more points, but it would erode the longterm vision and put back the development of a very promising young player.
It may get to a point where we need that, but we aren't anywhere near there yet.
Short term pain, long term gain!
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Did he? I thought he did alright. The first goal was down to Stevens playing Chimichanga onside and although there was the odd moment, I thought Clark and Vlaar did well. Rooney and van Persie hardly touched the ball for most of the game.
He's not the complete defender yet but I'm encouraged by Clark. And yes, I like Baker too. We need (at least) one more but Dunne coming straight back in doesn't seem right to me. It will be nice to have some experience to call on though.
ChiquititayouandIknow had the fall trapped under his feet for ages, and Clark had ample opportunity to put a foot in or otherwise put him off, but defending when the chips are down just doesn't seem part of his make up. Clark would be much better deployed as a defensive midfielder in my opinion. Even forgetting about Dunne, I think Baker is a betetr bet as Vlaar's partner.
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I wondered why I hadn't heard much of Mark E Smith lately.
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Clark gets caught napping and gets yellow carded too much for my liking. I thought we looked more secure when Baker played there, but he's an injury magnet. Dunne would add experience and maybe solidity but it's not as if he's a stranger to the gaffe fairy. How many times have his wild lunges or lack of concentration conceded penalties or own goals in the last couple of seasons? Quite a few I can think of. Oh and Clark at left back - no.
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Did he? I thought he did alright. The first goal was down to Stevens playing Chimichanga onside and although there was the odd moment, I thought Clark and Vlaar did well. Rooney and van Persie hardly touched the ball for most of the game.
He's not the complete defender yet but I'm encouraged by Clark. And yes, I like Baker too. We need (at least) one more but Dunne coming straight back in doesn't seem right to me. It will be nice to have some experience to call on though.
ChiquititayouandIknow had the fall trapped under his feet for ages, and Clark had ample opportunity to put a foot in or otherwise put him off, but defending when the chips are down just doesn't seem part of his make up. Clark would be much better deployed as a defensive midfielder in my opinion. Even forgetting about Dunne, I think Baker is a betetr bet as Vlaar's partner.
There is no way you can deny it, I can see that your oh so sad so quiet.
We gave it our best shot but I guess the winner takes it all.
I agree with baker being a good defender and when fit I hope he sees lambert and says 'take a chance on me'.
There is no doubt some think dunne was overpriced but he's not too bad when you consider what Chelsea paid for fernando.
The game has really changed for the worse though and now it's all about money,money,money.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
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I think Eastie's pissed.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
we would have definitely gone down last year if the returning richard dunne hadnt played against the olbeyun. his performance that day was immense!
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I have a dream of Wembley this season and it may just happen.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
we would have definitely gone down last year if the returning richard dunne hadnt played against the olbeyun. his performance that day was immense!
Not as immense as shay given was.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
we would have definitely gone down last year if the returning richard dunne hadnt played against the olbeyun. his performance that day was immense!
Not as immense as shay given was.
i wont disagree that shay was too, however Dunne was pure class that day and we would have gone if we lost that game.
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I was joking, it was'nt my fault it went over your head. Oh dear.
As for Enda, there's no harm in trying him left midfield for half an hour when we're 3-0 up in a game. He could save us some money, money, money.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
we would have definitely gone down last year if the returning richard dunne hadnt played against the olbeyun. his performance that day was immense!
Not as immense as shay given was.
i wont disagree that shay was too, however Dunne was pure class that day and we would have gone if we lost that game.
Yes dunne at his best is still an asset and if lambert can get that kind of display from him he could be useful to us after Xmas.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
we would have definitely gone down last year if the returning richard dunne hadnt played against the olbeyun. his performance that day was immense!
Impossible to say we'd have definitely gone down considering we stayed up by 2 points and only got a point in that game. As the table turned out we could have lost that match and the Spurs game and we'd still have stayed up.
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I was joking, it was'nt my fault it went over your head. Oh dear.
As for Enda, there's no harm in trying him left midfield for half an hour when we're 3-0 up in a game. He could save us some money, money, money.
So was i clampy, we both know the name of the game.
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I was joking, it was'nt my fault it went over your head. Oh dear.
As for Enda, there's no harm in trying him left midfield for half an hour when we're 3-0 up in a game. He could save us some money, money, money.
So was i clampy, we both know the name of the game.
Judging by your Stevens and Given comments i doubt you were, it sounds like yet another Eastie bit of classic backtracking. Nice try anyway.
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I was joking, it was'nt my fault it went over your head. Oh dear.
As for Enda, there's no harm in trying him left midfield for half an hour when we're 3-0 up in a game. He could save us some money, money, money.
So was i clampy, we both know the name of the game.
Judging by your Stevens and Given comments i doubt you were, it sounds like yet another Eastie bit of classic backtracking. Nice try anyway.
Your so touchy, of course I wasn't joking about playing shay given at left wing was i clampy?
As were the references to abba songs which followed on from risso but if you wish to be moody then feel free clamps.
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if there is one player who makes me nervous when the pressure is on and we are trying to see a game out or hang on for dear life, its Richard Dunne
he always seems to pop up giving a penalty away or slipping over at the worst posible time,
i dont care how much experience he has, he's a liability at times, and is no cool head, unless playing for Ireland
when/if he comes back, he will be older, not match fit so i cant see him being any improvement on any of the players we have already
we would have definitely gone down last year if the returning richard dunne hadnt played against the olbeyun. his performance that day was immense!
It was his UB40.
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I think the issue of Clark over Dunne is an example of what Lambert is trying to do with us as a whole. Yes, Dunne could come in and we'd be a bit more solid and cobble together a few more points, but it would erode the longterm vision and put back the development of a very promising young player.
It may get to a point where we need that, but we aren't anywhere near there yet.
Short term pain, long term gain!
In a nutshell, John.
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I was joking, it was'nt my fault it went over your head. Oh dear.
As for Enda, there's no harm in trying him left midfield for half an hour when we're 3-0 up in a game. He could save us some money, money, money.
So was i clampy, we both know the name of the game.
Judging by your Stevens and Given comments i doubt you were, it sounds like yet another Eastie bit of classic backtracking. Nice try anyway.
Your so touchy, of course I wasn't joking about playing shay given at left wing was i clampy?
As were the references to abba songs which followed on from risso but you will never change clamps.
Now who's being touchy?
Like i said in my earlier post, i was joking. It's not my fault you have'nt got a sense of humour, although living in Coventry can't help.
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I think Eastie's pissed.
Not me who wants to play enda Stevens in midfield clamps, how about giving shay a run out as a left winger?
Knowing me knowing you , I think maybe I'm the sober one my old friend.
I was joking, it was'nt my fault it went over your head. Oh dear.
As for Enda, there's no harm in trying him left midfield for half an hour when we're 3-0 up in a game. He could save us some money, money, money.
So was i clampy, we both know the name of the game.
Judging by your Stevens and Given comments i doubt you were, it sounds like yet another Eastie bit of classic backtracking. Nice try anyway.
Your so touchy, of course I wasn't joking about playing shay given at left wing was i clampy?
As were the references to abba songs which followed on from risso but you will never change clamps.
Now who's being touchy?
Like i said in my earlier post, i was joking. It's not my fault you have'nt got a sense of humour, although living in Coventry can't help.
Zzzzz.
Right off off to have a pint , evening all.
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Will you two gimme, gimme, gimme, a break? I'm trying to stay on topic here.
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As for Dunne, he was superb against the Stripeyfilth away last season. He did look a bit ropey at the euro's although the whole irish defence did'nt look good. I do like Baker a lot though. If he was to stay fit for more than 2 games in a row, we'd have a really good centre half on our hands.
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Will you two gimme, gimme, gimme, a break? I'm trying to stay on topic here.
Fair play leeb, one of us will !
Dunne will play a part I think later in the season but I agree baker looks like he will be a really good defender and if all are fit I'd be tempted to go with baker and Vlaar , right there's a pint waiting .
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Will you two gimme, gimme, gimme, a break? I'm trying to stay on topic here.
My apologies mate. You're a bit of a super trouper for putting up with it.
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Any chance you two can knock it off for a while please? It's getting very tedious seeing you hijack threads just to snipe at each other.
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As for Dunne, he was superb against the Stripeyfilth away last season. He did look a bit ropey at the euro's although the whole irish defence did'nt look good. I do like Baker a lot though. If he was to stay fit for more than 2 games in a row, we'd have a really good centre half on our hands.
Saved a point at the Albion, cost us two against Spurs.
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I think the issue of Clark over Dunne is an example of what Lambert is trying to do with us as a whole. Yes, Dunne could come in and we'd be a bit more solid and cobble together a few more points, but it would erode the longterm vision and put back the development of a very promising young player.
It may get to a point where we need that, but we aren't anywhere near there yet.
Short term pain, long term gain!
In theory I agree with that sentiment but I think that would be applicable if we were sitting a lot more comfortably in the table. In the position we're in i don't think it matters whether the player is 17 or 37. The best players in their positions are what is required to get the results.
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When is he going to be fit? He seems to have been out a long time now.
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is it because weight watchers only meet weekly?