Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: chippy on October 21, 2012, 10:12:27 AM
-
Hi there, I don't post here much but I'm just getting so down about the whole club over the past few years. My thoughts are all of the place at the moment so do bare with me on this.
Does anyone here look forward to the weekends anymore? I certainly don't, in fact, I didn't even want this season to begin because I knew it would be like this. Where do I even start?
Well do begin with, everything was looking up a few years ago with MON in charge. Some people didn't like his style of play, which I don't understand because if your team is scoring and winning how the hell can anyone complain? But we were finishing just outside the top four and we got to a cup final!
We did have one of the best midfield in the league, Barry, Milner, Petrov, Downing and Young! The defence was pretty strong at the back as well with Laursen. None of these players are here anymore (Well Petrov has cancer sadly and won't be coming back).
The squad now is shocking! The goalkeepers and strikers are alright but the defence and midfield is one of the worst in the league.
Vlaar, Dunne and Clark are half decent CB's but the full backs are terrible. Unproven kids to be honest, just there to make up the numbers.
Then we come onto the midfield, Ireland and N'Zogbia aren't even half the players they were since joining. Albrighton looks a good prospect but needs to be played more. I don't know what to make on El Ahmadi yet, but I'm not building my hopes up. The rest are unproven kids once again and are there just to make up the numbers. Sorry to sound harsh on Delph, Bannan, Gardner and herd but they just don't have the quality.
Now moving onto the way we play. It's become pathetic to be honest. The lack of quality is so embarrassing. We are forever on the back foot and seem to be the underdog who ever we play in the Premier league. We can't create hardly any chances and then we don't take them. We never look like scoring more than a goal per match if that! If we go 1-0 down we might as well stop watching because we never come back and win. I don't point any blame at Paul Lambert because we've been playing the same for three seasons now so it's the players fault. Randy Lerner didn't give him hardly any money so he was then forced to buy cheap youngsters from lower divisions.
It's been a relegation battle now for the past two seasons and I don't think it's going to be third time lucky I'm afraid. Now I hear that Bent might be on his way out. If he leaves we might as well accept that we're down. Lets remember when we signed him in the January window last year. We were in a relegation battle and he joined halfway through the season, became our top scorer and we ended up finishing 9th somehow.
So to sum it all up. Randy Lerner needs to hand over at least £30M in January for proven quality midfielders and full backs or else. We can't sell anyone in January, if so we're down. The players need to sort themselves out and start taking responsibility.
Aston Villa - Prepared (for the Championship)
-
I have looked forward to every match since 1974 - "we're going up the Villa" has been a stock phrase in our family for generations.
The style of football on offer sometimes depresses me but I would still go even if I knew it was going to be a defeat beforehand (and there have been times we knew that haven't there?)
I'm taking two friends up this Saturday for their first games since God was a lad and we are buzzing already.
-
Not that I want to diss you or anything, but I would like to see someone attempt to come up with a solution where the arguent doesn't end with the sentence "Randy needs to spend XX in Janurary"
Obviously, the days of "Let's throw a load of shit at a wall and see what sticks" are gone. And even under O'Neill, the signing policy was still somewhat flawed. For every Ashley Young we also got Mustapha Salifou.
Randy and his cronies said they wanted a "young, vibrant manager" to take over. This they gave us, something which was obviously in mind following the alleged pursuit of Ole Gunnar Solksjaer. Lambert can only work with what he has, which is not what you would consider one of the three worst squads in the Premier League. Benteke will come good, and in a year or so we'll get £15 million for him to go and sit on someone a bit more fashionable's bench. To me, the only worrying thing is this alleged rift between Lambert and Bent.
Exciting as it was, the O'Neill era did have the feeling of a Rollercoaster which was only minute away from catching fire. Things might not be quite right on the pitch at the moment, but things do feel more stable than five years ago.
-
I'd look forward to going to watch Villa even if we were in the Conference....its a massive part of my life and family history. Good memories and heartbreaking ones.....and I'm sure more of both to come.
Wouldn't swap it for anything.
-
Many of us myself included were critical of mon in the last year or so of his reign as we frustrated too many times and should have cracked the top 4 at the time - bent rather than heskey would have done it in my view.
But since his departure we have slipped alarmingly , similar to the way we did in the mid 80s when we gradually fell away and ended up relegated.
For all his faults how I would love to be back where we were under mon in the top 6 and with quality players . Very much a case of be careful what you wish for , I guess.
-
Still love going to watch villa even though we have been really poor of late,hopefully if we can just stay up this season and get better over the next few seasons with our young players and a few good signings the good times won't be too far away
-
Last season was depressing. This season is frustrating.
-
It's not great at the moment, and I can understand people feeling like they've been led up the garden path by the board with 'proud history, bright future'. However, watching the game yesterday and hearing the Villa support made me realise that there is really only one place I want to be on a Saturday afternoon, and it isn't sat here reading about Icelandic sagas, believe me.
I'm getting a season ticket next year and I don't give a fuck what league we're in.
-
I decided to watch the Championship show last night after MOTD. Just to try and acclimatise.
-
It's not great at the moment, and I can understand people feeling like they've been led up the garden path by the board with 'proud history, bright future'. However, watching the game yesterday and hearing the Villa support made me realise that there is really only one place I want to be on a Saturday afternoon, and it isn't sat here reading about Icelandic sagas, believe me.
I'm getting a season ticket next year and I don't give a fuck what league we're in.
I'm with Stu on this. It may not be a great team at the moment but I would rather watch this set-up than most teams for the last 4 years at least. There was a short window when MON seemed to revive my enthusiasm but since the days of JG i have been indifferent at most.
Currently I would watch them whatever division they are in. It is a little hard to explain I guess but I think it is mostly due to the lack of Prima-Donnas and carthorses taking the piss.
-
I'd still go and watch even if we slipped into the isthmian ryman Northern Div 2.
-
its got to the stage for me where i enjoy weekends when we don't play.
id still have ST if i could afford it as going to the game is a day out with a few beers, but I've had no enjoyment listening watching games over the past 3 years. most weekends are ruined by our results.
when was the last time we won 2 games on the bounce?
-
I've stopped reading after your love-in with MON, he has ruined our club by wasting millions and setting our club back years.
It was a quick climb with a quick decline, now we have to try steady the ship and survive and start again.
-
I find moaning when we are continually rubbish quite therapeutic.
It takes my mind off the depressing state of the rest of my life, rising prices at the supermarket, fuel prices spiralling, and the general shit you get from nearly everybody you come into contact with the rest of the time.
Up the Villa !
-
Last season was depressing. This season is frustrating.
This, were coming together as a team and lack a bit of creativity and I'm excited for the likes of Clark, Baker, Lowton, Bennett and Guzan, their career is only just beginning and if we can keep hold of them for 2 years then we could have a solid defence
We lack a bit of width too
-
It was suicide watch under TSM, depressing under monsieur Houllier but nothing depressing about Lambert and what he is trying to do.
I am actually excited about the new squad and style of football - it will only get better.
-
Many of us myself included were critical of mon in the last year or so of his reign as we frustrated too many times and should have cracked the top 4 at the time - bent rather than heskey would have done it in my view.
But since his departure we have slipped alarmingly , similar to the way we did in the mid 80s when we gradually fell away and ended up relegated.
For all his faults how I would love to be back where we were under mon in the top 6 and with quality players . Very much a case of be careful what you wish for , I guess.
What's this Eastie? Reminicing about the MON era?
-
I actually think we play some decent stuff. Oddly I think our defence has improved dramatically since last season. Our midfield remains a problem and our attack is, well, unlucky or shite.
I disagree about Lerner, he backed Lambert strongly, with more money than some clubs challenging for Europe, I also like Lamberts signings, none of them are past their prime, they can only get better as players.
But yes it is depressing. Yesterday I felt that cloud of "FFS we never catch a bloody break" washing over me again. Really what we need is a good run of inconsistency, because right now we are consistent losers , marked down as an easy touch by everyone on the league and a mark to go down by every pundit with a gob.
No choice in my mind but to stay behind Lambert and the team, things could get worse if we turn on them, thats an ugly situation that helps nobody.
-
Many of us myself included were critical of mon in the last year or so of his reign as we frustrated too many times and should have cracked the top 4 at the time - bent rather than heskey would have done it in my view.
But since his departure we have slipped alarmingly , similar to the way we did in the mid 80s when we gradually fell away and ended up relegated.
For all his faults how I would love to be back where we were under mon in the top 6 and with quality players . Very much a case of be careful what you wish for , I guess.
What's this Eastie? Reminicing about the MON era?
He left at the right time but there were some quality games and players and we did compete with the top clubs clamps- many times I have mentioned the Saunders, Taylor and Atkinson eras among others - memories of great times my old friend.
I hope in 10 years times to look back on the lambert reign with great memories too!
-
There's no guarantee that O'Neill would have fared any better with having to sell all our best players, and replace them with tat. In fact it's almost certain he wouldn't, which is part of the reason he walked, I imagine.
-
Brand O'Neill needed to remain intact.
-
There's no guarantee that O'Neill would have fared any better with having to sell all our best players, and replace them with tat. In fact it's almost certain he wouldn't, which is part of the reason he walked, I imagine.
I agree, he could see the team was past it's best and cracks were appearing and he took the easy way out, moyes had to sell his best players for years but rolled up his sleeves and got on with it.
-
Call me deluded but I'm still optimistic.
-
I've been to 4 aways this season and we've lost the lot but at every game the support has been fantastic and I've had a cracking time, I love the company and world seems a lovely place to be.
Can't wait for Swindon and the free Ecstasy Tablets I supply to all my members of the Kingston Lions, join us, and like the love, its free.
-
I thought I was a pessimist but reading your post makes me realise just how much this club means to me. I still look forward to every home game ( I must admit pacing the floor listening to away games is hard lately). I think a sense of togetherness with the current team and team manager is beginning to shine through,(I never really felt MON connected with us and was always likey to leave which he did). I always tell my son that you have to support Villa through thick and thin, when we eventually get some form and success it will taste far sweeter than the monotonous inevitablity of the Man Cities / Chelsea's bought and paid for trophies are.
Get behind the team and keep the faith UTV !
-
Call me deluded but I'm still optimistic.
Me too.
-
I'm not worried. The world is supposed to end in 64 days. It's implausible we'll have been relegated by then.
-
I believe Australians have all the qualities to become perfect Villa supporters, when Villa were genuine top four challengers many Villa supporters were criticising the manager, the players i.e Barry too fat and slow,Milner too slow to play on wing (me),Stan can't last the game out and so on. Over here we have full employment,no debt, Melbourne voted the most liveable city (i agree),weather always perfect somewhere in the country and a beach somewhere near you, and yet Australians are looking to boot out the party that got us through the GFC unscathed. Whingers to their core, perfect for a supporter drive i reckon.
-
I believe Australians have all the qualities to become perfect Villa supporters, when Villa were genuine top four challengers many Villa supporters were criticising the manager, the players i.e Barry too fat and slow,Milner too slow to play on wing (me),Stan can't last the game out and so on. Over here we have full employment,no debt, Melbourne voted the most liveable city (i agree),weather always perfect somewhere in the country and a beach somewhere near you, and yet Australians are looking to boot out the party that got us through the GFC unscathed. Whingers to their core, perfect for a supporter drive i reckon.
You're right about that Robbo. Melbourne is a great place, what is there to moan about?
-
I think that the last few weeks have simply gone to prove how tough a job we have on our hands to stay up, let alone move on. However, let’s be clear about this, most of us bought into the Lambert experiment, so there’s no point wetting our pants given that its struggling to get going.
Our team lacks so much quality in so many areas and the buying of lower league and Dutch league players was always going to be a gamble. BUT we wanted this, we wanted to start the club again with younger, hungry players, so I fail to see how you cannot feel involved in this journey. Last season was awful as most of us did not agree with TSM and hated the club ignoring our wishes. This team, the club has listened and given us the manager we wanted and delivered the players we’d been asking for. It might go totally and utterly tits up, but at least we can say ‘we experimented as one and failed as one’
-
Good comments, Neil. I agree. I (and we) knew that the club needed to almost start again. Lambert's come in at our lowest point, really. It's a big job. My expectations were fairly low for the season, I thought top half at absolute best - even so, I didn't expect five defeats from the first eight games.
I feel okay about things though. I trust this manager to get it right. Don't think he's found his best team yet.
-
I'm not depressed in the slightest, I'm frustrated with things at the moment as I know we can be a lot better than we have been so far.
Outside the top 3 I think there's very little between most of the rest of the league, they're all capable of beating each other, the key is taking your chances and getting on a run, I think we have the quality to have a run of results at some point which will be more than enough to keep us safe. Given that I'm happy for this season to be a learning experience for the youngsters, playing the right way getting used to the league, ready to push on in the next couple of years.
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
-
How about getting in NRC as a stop gap. Strikes me the team needs leadership in midfield...has he found a club yet?
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
I disagree. I suspect that it is exactly what he wanted. You only have to look at the squad to see that this season was always going to be a case of just staying up. You cannot throw 20M at a club that just managed to stay up last season and expect anything more than the same this season.
We've got to try and look beyond this season and assume that on the basis of staying up we'll start to recover once more.
We've been in this position before, we've gotten out of this position before and this cycle will repeat itself some time in the future too.... AVFC, bobbling along on the cusp of success and decline since 1874.
-
How about getting in NRC as a stop gap. Strikes me the team needs leadership in midfield...has he found a club yet?
He's at Ipswich for 3 months.
-
I don't find the current situation depressing at all. It's very frustrating for sure results wise but at least we are trying to play football.
We deserved a draw on Saturday but luck went against us.
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
What did he think he was going to get for 20M in this day and age? Champions League?
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
Didn't most of us go into this season saying we'd be happy with a mid table finish?
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
What did he think he was going to get for 20M in this day and age? Champions League?
Well, we are talking about Lerner, so who knows? But I'm sure that having got rid of McLeish who kept us up, that he didn't expect to appoint a supposedly better manager and give him £20m and then see results get even worse. Some of the perfomances so far have been just as bad as anything last year, eg against Everton, Southampton and West ham.
-
Re Mon, Sunderland have won 1 in 15 and have had the lowest amount of shots on goal in all 4 divisions, He's spent a bit and is hardly tearing up trees
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
What did he think he was going to get for 20M in this day and age? Champions League?
Well, we are talking about Lerner, so who knows? But I'm sure that having got rid of McLeish who kept us up, that he didn't expect to appoint a supposedly better manager and give him £20m and then see results get even worse. Some of the perfomances so far have been just as bad as anything last year, eg against Everton, Southampton and West ham.
Lerner and Faulkner were determined to reshape the club after making the mistake on McLeish. His tenure was untenable and they knew it. There is no denying that up to now the results have not gone with us, but you cannot say that the football is not better. At least Lambert has a plan and you can see it. Had the status quo been maintained, we’d be just where we are and we could genuinely complain about how depressing it is.
As it stands, it’s not going to plan right now, but I agreed with the Lambert gamble when it was made and still believe in it now. This is going to be a really difficult season and we might go down, however, if we don’t we will recover and be back.
I’m convinced of it, as that's just what this club does.
-
Some of the perfomances so far have been just as bad as anything last year, eg against Everton, Southampton and West ham.
None of those performances were anything like as soul destroying as what we saw against the likes of Spurs away and Manchester United at home last year. For a start we scored goals against Everton and Southampton. We had no ambition to get out of our own half in many matches last year, let alone try to score a goal.
-
Lots of managers have tried to play football, and still been relegated. The quality of the squad is really important, whether it's Stoke or Arsenal style football, and I just don't think ours is good enough.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
-
Bren'd's right. It's not depressing, it's more frustrating. We all expected a better start under Lambert and it has'nt happened.
-
Lots of managers have tried to play football, and still been relegated. The quality of the squad is really important, whether it's Stoke or Arsenal style football, and I just don't think ours is good enough.
I refer you to the right honourable Tony Mowbray.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
Agree with that Neil, but it's the big "IF" we survive. If we don't, I really think we'd be in the mire for a long time.
-
I'd say it's more frustrating than depressing at the momenet, as others have said. Last season was truly depressing, I still feel like there's hope this year.
-
The problem is that when you just don't know where your next win will come from and you see the team slipping down the league, that it is hard to be anything but 'depressed'.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
Agree with that Neil, but it's the big "IF" we survive. If we don't, I really think we'd be in the mire for a long time.
Its a gamble, but I'd rather take the gamble than simply die slowly. If you buy into the risk we're taking its anything but depressing. Frustrating yes, depressing no. Under McLeish it would simply have been the latter.
And for the record if this experiment does go utterly tits up, I think we'd be in far better shape to come back stronger than we would be under many other managers.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
Agree with that Neil, but it's the big "IF" we survive. If we don't, I really think we'd be in the mire for a long time.
Its a gamble, but I'd rather take the gamble than simply die slowly. If you buy into the risk we're taking its anything but depressing. Frustrating yes, depressing no. Under McLeish it would simply have been the latter.
And for the record if this experiment does go utterly tits up, I think we'd be in far better shape to come back stronger than we would be under many other managers.
If McLeish could keep us up, then if Lambert takes us down with the same squad and having added £20m of players to it, I wouldn't give him the chance personally.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
Agree with that Neil, but it's the big "IF" we survive. If we don't, I really think we'd be in the mire for a long time.
Its a gamble, but I'd rather take the gamble than simply die slowly. If you buy into the risk we're taking its anything but depressing. Frustrating yes, depressing no. Under McLeish it would simply have been the latter.
And for the record if this experiment does go utterly tits up, I think we'd be in far better shape to come back stronger than we would be under many other managers.
If McLeish could keep us up, then if Lambert takes us down with the same squad and having added £20m of players to it, I wouldn't give him the chance personally.
Neither would I. He's bought too many lower league players who just haven't performed because quite frankly they're not good enough for the PL.
saying that though, we'll continue to unimpress until Lerner realises that have to invest in top players to perform in the top division. That means paying PL wages not lower league wages. His continuing cutbacks will eventually cost us our Premier League status.
-
When I read the initial post I look to the number of postings made.
I compare what long term posters think and take their comments much more seriously, including Risso's ;D,sometimes I think Journos join in looking to promote disharmony and discord to enhance their copy?
Things may not be currently as we would like them to be but let's not throw away our optimism so early on.
-
Surely our squad this year is no worse than Norwich's last year. It will come right.
-
The problem is that when you just don't know where your next win will come from and you see the team slipping down the league, that it is hard to be anything but 'depressed'.
The added thorn in the side at the minute is when we get a bad result you're prone to get a vision of Robbie Savage's smug face.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
Agree with that Neil, but it's the big "IF" we survive. If we don't, I really think we'd be in the mire for a long time.
Its a gamble, but I'd rather take the gamble than simply die slowly. If you buy into the risk we're taking its anything but depressing. Frustrating yes, depressing no. Under McLeish it would simply have been the latter.
And for the record if this experiment does go utterly tits up, I think we'd be in far better shape to come back stronger than we would be under many other managers.
If McLeish could keep us up, then if Lambert takes us down with the same squad and having added £20m of players to it, I wouldn't give him the chance personally.
Neither would I. He's bought too many lower league players who just haven't performed because quite frankly they're not good enough for the PL.
saying that though, we'll continue to unimpress until Lerner realises that have to invest in top players to perform in the top division. That means paying PL wages not lower league wages. His continuing cutbacks will eventually cost us our Premier League status.
Far far too early to cast a judgement on the players who've come in this summer.
Lowton looks good enough for this level, as do, in my opinion, Vlaar, KEA, Benteke and Holman. Bennett needs time with the squad (he's similar to Lowton but without a summer at the club) and Westwood and Bowery can't be judged either way yet.
I firmly believe the ability of the players who've come in isn't the problem, we're just an inexperienced squad with 2 options to get that experience:
1. We buy players who been in and around the premier league for a while, with relatively high fees and wages.
2. We stick to our guns and trust that the talent will shine through sooner rather than later.
I choose 2 as 1 is what we did under MoN to start the whole mess off.
I'd prefer something in the middle though.
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
What did he think he was going to get for 20M in this day and age? Champions League?
Well, we are talking about Lerner, so who knows? But I'm sure that having got rid of McLeish who kept us up, that he didn't expect to appoint a supposedly better manager and give him £20m and then see results get even worse. Some of the perfomances so far have been just as bad as anything last year, eg against Everton, Southampton and West ham.
Lerner and Faulkner were determined to reshape the club after making the mistake on McLeish. His tenure was untenable and they knew it. There is no denying that up to now the results have not gone with us, but you cannot say that the football is not better. At least Lambert has a plan and you can see it. Had the status quo been maintained, we’d be just where we are and we could genuinely complain about how depressing it is.
As it stands, it’s not going to plan right now, but I agreed with the Lambert gamble when it was made and still believe in it now. This is going to be a really difficult season and we might go down, however, if we don’t we will recover and be back.
I’m convinced of it, as that's just what this club does.
I still think we will be OK. Mid tablish. Lambert has bought a lot of untried and untested players. It is going to take a few months to see whether they are up to it or not. A win on Saturday is becoming more and more important. We need to start putting some points up on the board. I do honestly believe that we are not quite getting the rub of the green....but then again I am a villa fan, hope springs eternal
-
Far far too early to cast a judgement on the players who've come in this summer.
Lowton looks good enough for this level, as do, in my opinion, Vlaar, KEA, Benteke and Holman. Bennett needs time with the squad (he's similar to Lowton but without a summer at the club) and Westwood and Bowery can't be judged either way yet.
I firmly believe the ability of the players who've come in isn't the problem, we're just an inexperienced squad with 2 options to get that experience:
1. We buy players who been in and around the premier league for a while, with relatively high fees and wages.
2. We stick to our guns and trust that the talent will shine through sooner rather than later.
I choose 2 as 1 is what we did under MoN to start the whole mess off.
I'd prefer something in the middle though.
Agree 100%.
-
I believe we will be ok, it will be a rollercoaster but we will stay up.
-
I believe we will be ok, it will be a rollercoaster but we will stay up.
I totally agree with the honourable gentleman. It will be difficult and I can see us in the drop-zone for a while leading up to Christmas but it will all come good.
-
This season: stay up
Next season: kick on
That's the plan.
I'm sure that's not what Lerner was hoping for when he appointed Lambert and gave him £20m to spend.
What did he think he was going to get for 20M in this day and age? Champions League?
Well, we are talking about Lerner, so who knows? But I'm sure that having got rid of McLeish who kept us up, that he didn't expect to appoint a supposedly better manager and give him £20m and then see results get even worse. Some of the perfomances so far have been just as bad as anything last year, eg against Everton, Southampton and West ham.
Results aren't actually much worse though.
Everton (h) 1-1 vs 1-3 -1pt
Newcastle (a) 1-2 vs 1-1 +1pt
Swansea (h) 0-2 vs 2-0 +3
WBA (h) 1-2 vs 1-1 +1
Spurs (a) 0-2 vs 0-2 0
Fulham (a) 0-0 vs 0-1 -1
3 points more than we got last season. Always look on the bright side.
-
Clever you missed out the west ham & Southampton defeats ??
Last season we can say comparable with QPR & Swansea away ? So a further -2 points
-
I believe we will be ok, it will be a rollercoaster but we will stay up.
I totally agree with the honourable gentleman. It will be difficult and I can see us in the drop-zone for a while leading up to Christmas but it will all come good.
Patience is going to be vital, and unfortunately we're not renown for being very patient...
-
Clever you missed out the west ham & Southampton defeats ??
Last season we can say comparable with QPR & Swansea away ? So a further -2 points
How is it clever? We didn't play them last season. Can't compare them with relegated sides as Saints and West Ham still have the buzz from promotion that the relegated sides didn't have.
So if you do want to compare them to promoted sides, then it's still +1 from last season. And it's still not much worse results.
-
Why are people shitting it about November by the way? Under the previous twat we wrote the games off as we set up as a damage limitation exercise.
I bet we get an unexpected win in those games due to our trying to play, just like Norwich on Saturday in fact.
Leave the knife and the wrists alone for a while yet.
-
Why are people shitting it about November by the way? Under the previous twat we wrote the games off as we set up as a damage limitation exercise.
I bet we get an unexpected win in those games due to our trying to play, just like Norwich on Saturday in fact.
Leave the knife and the wrists alone for a while yet.
completely agree Chelts. I firmly believe this season we'll win games we as fans to lose, and lose games we expect to win. What I do know is that we'll try and win all of them.
-
Why are people shitting it about November by the way? Under the previous twat we wrote the games off as we set up as a damage limitation exercise.
I bet we get an unexpected win in those games due to our trying to play, just like Norwich on Saturday in fact.
Leave the knife and the wrists alone for a while yet.
completely agree Chelts. I firmly believe this season we'll win games we as fans to lose, and lose games we expect to win. What I do know is that we'll try and win all of them.
Agree and I do believe we already hold a victory over one of the Super Clubs in another competition this season.
-
I think we need to find our Dave Mackay (Which Brian Clough sign for Derby to help his very young team and then end up champions) This mean a proper midfield general and a wonderful winger.
-
I think we need to find our Dave Mackay (Which Brian Clough sign for Derby to help his very young team and then end up champions) This mean a proper midfield general and a wonderful winger.
Nail on the head there sals- a midfield general is a must.
-
Last season was depressing. This season is frustrating.
Next season will be fulfilling!
-
I believe we will be ok, it will be a rollercoaster but we will stay up.
I totally agree with the honourable gentleman. It will be difficult and I can see us in the drop-zone for a while leading up to Christmas but it will all come good.
Patience is going to be vital, and unfortunately we're not renown for being very patient...
Are you sure about that?
McCatpiss was cut an awful lot of slack last season, it was very late in the day before the home crowd turned on him.
-
H
I think we need to find our Dave Mackay (Which Brian Clough sign for Derby to help his very young team and then end up champions) This mean a proper midfield general and a wonderful winger.
Have you just watched the Damned United by any chance?
Great film.
Edit: as an aside - Dave mckay's son, Murray was a couple of years above me at my school.
-
Our squad is poor and you’re right that you can’t polish a turd. However, we can go down with a whimper as we would have done under TSM, or we can try and rebuild from scratch under Lambert.
Right now it’s a bloody long road back to 6th spot, but I’m convinced that if we can survive this season that we will start to make the slow climb back up there.
Agree with that Neil, but it's the big "IF" we survive. If we don't, I really think we'd be in the mire for a long time.
Its a gamble, but I'd rather take the gamble than simply die slowly. If you buy into the risk we're taking its anything but depressing. Frustrating yes, depressing no. Under McLeish it would simply have been the latter.
And for the record if this experiment does go utterly tits up, I think we'd be in far better shape to come back stronger than we would be under many other managers.
If McLeish could keep us up, then if Lambert takes us down with the same squad and having added £20m of players to it, I wouldn't give him the chance personally.
Neither would I. He's bought too many lower league players who just haven't performed because quite frankly they're not good enough for the PL.
saying that though, we'll continue to unimpress until Lerner realises that have to invest in top players to perform in the top division. That means paying PL wages not lower league wages. His continuing cutbacks will eventually cost us our Premier League status.
Far far too early to cast a judgement on the players who've come in this summer.
Lowton looks good enough for this level, as do, in my opinion, Vlaar, KEA, Benteke and Holman. Bennett needs time with the squad (he's similar to Lowton but without a summer at the club) and Westwood and Bowery can't be judged either way yet.
I firmly believe the ability of the players who've come in isn't the problem, we're just an inexperienced squad with 2 options to get that experience:
1. We buy players who been in and around the premier league for a while, with relatively high fees and wages.
2. We stick to our guns and trust that the talent will shine through sooner rather than later.
I choose 2 as 1 is what we did under MoN to start the whole mess off.
I'd prefer something in the middle though.
Early days but I dont think Holman is good enough to be starting on a midtable EPL side. A poor man's Ji Sung Park. Jury still out on Lowton too. The new signings arent the problem though they havent improved matters all that much. The likes of Given, Delph, Nzogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Bent dont seem up to it either and most of them havent been for quite some time. Lichaj, Baker, Bannan, Westwood, Herd, Albrighton - are these even good enough to be playing 10-15 games this season?
Our manager is struggling at the moment a little too. We are in trouble frankly.
-
I believe we will be ok, it will be a rollercoaster but we will stay up.
I totally agree with the honourable gentleman. It will be difficult and I can see us in the drop-zone for a while leading up to Christmas but it will all come good.
Patience is going to be vital, and unfortunately we're not renown for being very patient...
Are you sure about that?
McCatpiss was cut an awful lot of slack last season, it was very late in the day before the home crowd turned on him.
You think showing impatience, giving Lambert less time that TSM and getting yet another manager in could be a better option?
-
Where has anybody suggested that?
-
That seemed to be the inference Rip Van's post. He said "are you sure we should be patient becuse we were with Mcleish and look where that got us". At least that's the way I read it.
-
It seemed to be disagreeing with the idea that we are impatient, citing last season and McLeish as an example.
-
Fair enough.
-
Deary me.
-
It seemed to be disagreeing with the idea that we are impatient, citing last season and McLeish as an example.
Correct Dave.
It belies the media led bollocks that we're an impatient, ungrateful mob.
The last Manager was dreadful, but I was amazed at the amount of leeway he received from supporters and it was only towards the end that he started getting the crowd on his spineless back.
-
HI think we need to find our Dave Mackay (Which Brian Clough sign for Derby to help his very young team and then end up champions) This mean a proper midfield general and a wonderful winger.
Have you just watched the Damned United by any chance?
Great film.
Edit: as an aside - Dave mckay's son, Murray was a couple of years above me at my school.
An awful lot of conjecture in that film.
This is the best description of those times
http://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Are-Damned-United-Clough/dp/1845967003
-
It seemed to be disagreeing with the idea that we are impatient, citing last season and McLeish as an example.
Correct Dave.
It belies the media led bollocks that we're an impatient, ungrateful mob.
The last Manager was dreadful, but I was amazed at the amount of leeway he received from supporters and it was only towards the end that he started getting the crowd on his spineless back.
Exactly, and when all that pent up pressure finally broke, TSM was swept away like a turd on a tidal wave of righteous rage.
Impatient, my arse.
-
He was finally properly turned on in the 35th game of the season. Funny how that's rarely mentioned when they go on about him given no time.
-
I would still still support ( couldn't watch if we were relegated, live to far away) Villa in any division. Tattoo on my arm and the inside of my heart. They will always be a massive part of my life, no matter what happens.
In my view, you don't become a Villa fan, you are Born a Villa fan.
-
A tattoo on the inside of your heart? Crikey, that must have stung.
-
Exciting as it was, the O'Neill era did have the feeling of a Rollercoaster which was only minute away from catching fire.
A truer word has never been said.
For like a rollercoaster - the ups were just preparations for the downs. £118 million spent for what? Sixth. Thrice. And even that saw moaning.
Only at the Villa.
-
I look forward to going to the games this season a lot more than last, although we might lose, at least we will be trying to win, rather than trying to draw 0-0.
-
Exciting as it was, the O'Neill era did have the feeling of a Rollercoaster which was only minute away from catching fire.
A truer word has never been said.
For like a rollercoaster - the ups were just preparations for the downs. £118 million spent for what? Sixth. Thrice. And even that saw moaning.
Only at the Villa.
To think we genuinely felt like we were going to finish higher than Man City, Spurs and Arsenal, we may never have that feeling again. There was a genuine chance to break the top 4 back then, now even with significant expenditure it is soo much harder because of the progress Spurs and in particular Man City have made over the past 3/4 years. Not to mention Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U,Everton and Newcastle all being arguably stronger now too.
-
He was finally properly turned on in the 35th game of the season. Funny how that's rarely mentioned when they go on about him given no time.
It was quite something to behold.
-
The second half of the Bolton home game?
-
The second half of the Bolton home game?
That was the only home game I was able to get to last season. It wasn't just the Holte singing it either, it was from all round the ground. It was awful.
-
The second half of the Bolton home game?
That was the only home game I was able to get to last season. It wasn't just the Holte singing it either, it was from all round the ground. It was awful.
For less than sixty seconds, the whole of Villa Park was happy. I've never been anywhere where the atmosphere has turned so nasty so fast.
-
It only truly turned with 5 minutes left when it was quite obvious no equaliser was coming as well.
I have never seen Villa Park turn like that before. A few moaners, some kids playing look at me being controversial in the Holte, I have seen aplenty but when the crowd cracked that night it was every part of the ground and in every tier that went for him.
An extraordinary sight.
-
It only truly turned with 5 minutes left when it was quite obvious no equaliser was coming as well.
I have never seen Villa Park turn like that before. A few moaners, some kids playing look at me being controversial in the Holte, I have seen aplenty but when the crowd cracked that night it was every part of the ground and in every tier that went for him.
An extraordinary sight.
I wonder if he still thinks back to that night while counting his money from his pay off.
As for us, we need to pick up points and try to pull away a bit from the bottom 3 , confidence will soon grow with a couple of wins and a few goals , too early yet to worry and it takes time for things to click, I think we will be ok.
-
The second half of the Bolton home game?
That was the only home game I was able to get to last season. It wasn't just the Holte singing it either, it was from all round the ground. It was awful.
For less than sixty seconds, the whole of Villa Park was happy. I've never been anywhere where the atmosphere has turned so nasty so fast.
It did feel like something of a release because you can't say it hadn't been bubbling under for a while.
-
I sensed the turn against him when he brought on Heskey up at Wigan - certainly made my piss boil!
-
I sensed the turn against him when he brought on Heskey up at Wigan - certainly made my piss boil!
I've said this a few times on here but that Wigan game totally convinced me that he was a goner. I've never heard a Villa away crowd so quiet and a team so devoid of attacking ideas.
-
I sensed the turn against him when he brought on Heskey up at Wigan - certainly made my piss boil!
This was definitely the first time when us long-suffering fans turned: and it was pretty vitriolic when it was clear the Hesk was coming on. If ever a draw was clutched from the jaws of victory that was it.
The home Bolton game was the ramped-up version of we saw at Wigan.
-
I sensed the turn against him when he brought on Heskey up at Wigan - certainly made my piss boil!
I've said this a few times on here but that Wigan game totally convinced me that he was a goner. I've never heard a Villa away crowd so quiet and a team so devoid of attacking ideas.
Spurs away showed me he was out of his depth at a club like villa - it was as though we never turned up.
-
Yep Wigan away was when I finally wanted him out. I believe that was the first time the "fcuk off McLeish, the Villa is ours" chant popped up that was then heard in the Bolton game.
To a smaller degree, losing dismally at home to Swansea just after beating Chelsea convinced me we weren't going to progress under him but Wigan was the proper tipping point.
-
It started at Wigan with groans of discontent. It still wansnt close to the Bolton night though.
-
It started at Wigan with groans of discontent. It still wansnt close to the Bolton night though.
It was a bit more than groans. I think it was the first time that the "Fuck off McLeish, the Villa is ours" chants started.
-
It was a bit sad that TSM's family were there when he was properly turned on. On the flip-side, it was a good job Randy was there.
-
It started at Wigan with groans of discontent. It still wansnt close to the Bolton night though.
It was a bit more than groans. I think it was the first time that the "Fuck off McLeish, the Villa is ours" chants started.
Spot on. I was at that game and I've never seen a Villa manager abused by the fans so much before or since.
-
That was nothing. You should have been round our house the other night when O'Leary turned up on the doorstep selling double-glazing.
-
That was nothing. You should have been round our house the other night when O'Leary turned up on the doorstep selling double-glazing.
Serves him right for being crap on the X Factor.
-
It was a long way short of being the whole away end that was chanting against him in the Wigan match though. He copped for some but nothing on the scale of the Bolton game.
-
Wigan away was a bit of a tipping point last season. Not only was there the McLeish chants but there was also a loud rendition of "Darren Bent what a wanker". He went down shortly after and that was his season over ? Albeit he was miraculously fit for the Euros ??
I remember walking out that day after Heskey came on and sliced a shot out for a throw.
-
Can't say I heard that Darren Bent chant at all. McLeish got absolute dog's abuse though, which was the first time I'd really heard the away crowd go after a manager like that.
-
Wigan away was a bit of a tipping point last season. Not only was there the McLeish chants but there was also a loud rendition of "Darren Bent what a wanker". He went down shortly after and that was his season over ? Albeit he was miraculously fit for the Euros ??
I remember walking out that day after Heskey came on and sliced a shot out for a throw.
someone stirring up trouble here, how many sang that? i never heard it and i have never heard anyone sing stuff like that at our own player!
-
Can't say I heard that Darren Bent chant at all. McLeish got absolute dog's abuse though, which was the first time I'd really heard the away crowd go after a manager like that.
Yeah, and I don't recall hearing the DB stuff either.
So, Silhill, you're at the vanguard of the "DB out" campaign, are you? ;)
-
To be fair the Bent chant started after he didn't track back after a ball he'd lost. It may have been confined to a few 100 near me to the right of the goal. I hasten to add I was not part of that group.
-
Wigan away was a bit of a tipping point last season. Not only was there the McLeish chants but there was also a loud rendition of "Darren Bent what a wanker".
It can't have been that loud because i was there and i did'nt hear anything like that and bearing in mind how quiet the crowd were that day, i think a lot more people would have.
-
Like I say I was behind the goal to the right slightly. It may have just been a pocket of fans near us, but it definitely happened. I was very shocked to hear it but tempers were boiling over that afternoon.
-
I think a few more would have heard it if it was a loud rendition by a 100 fans.
-
Only two real times I recall large scale hatred towards villa players were the hodge incident at home to Norwich in 86 and the savo spitting incident at Blackburn- certainly not heard chanting aimed at bent and if true totally uncalled for.
-
Alpay when he 'shushed' the Holte End did not go down too well.
-
Alpay when he 'shushed' the Holte End did not go down too well.
True but not to the degree of hodge and savo incidents.
-
Regardless of it was the Bolton or Wigan game, or the loudness, it still took ages for the supporters to make their displeasure known, yet the (mainly national) media made out we were attending every game with flaming torches and pitchforks.
It's a lie that seems to be now repeated by the man himself in the last interview he did.
Personally, I was amazed he got cut so much slack throughout the season.
-
The booing actually started at the Swansea home game I recall. Very loud, very directed.
-
-
Personally, I was amazed he got cut so much slack throughout the season.
Absolutely - Villa fans were not fickle (they just didn't like him) and, as you say, were incredibly tolerant given the ridiculous situation that we were in.