Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ExclDawg on September 18, 2012, 05:13:43 PM
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I was thinking of making this a poll, but figured most the votes would go one way. So let us go with a percentage based, thing.
Here's the line-up from the first two weeks:
West Ham: Given, Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Baker, Holman, Delph, KEA, N’Zogbia, Ireland, Bent
Everton: Given, Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Baker, Herd, N'Zogbia, KEA, Bannan, Delfouneso, Bent
And the two weeks since:
Newcastle: Guzan, Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Lichaj, Holman, KEA, Ireland, Bannan, Weimann, Bent
Swan City: Guzan, Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Lichaj, Holman, KEA, Ireland, Bannan, Weimann, Bent
So who/what is the biggest reason for the change in form?
You've got Given changing to Guze ... which is probably the biggest reason for me. Maybe 50% or more? He just seems to control the back line better, come out for crosses more, and generally just yells the word "Away!" much better.
There's Baker morphing to Lichaj, which probably has had the least impact.
While Holman played in Week 1, he seems to have established his role in the midfield, which has also helped immensely. Probably the second biggest reason for the change in form.
There's also the addition of Weiman to the front, the subtraction of N'Zog to the middle, and the general change of formation to what seems more of a straight 4-4-2. All good reasons.
So, what do you guys think are the biggest reasons?
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They've had more time together to train and get used to the new system Lambert wants them to play 85%. Guzan 10%. New players settling into the PL as they play more 5%.
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You can't polish a turd overnight.
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Yeah, time. And, as the Toon game was after the transfer deadline, maybe the flurry of new signings was a bit of a gee up.
But mainly time to get used to new tactics and gel as a team.
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Darren Bent getting more involved has clearly had a good impact.
He could have had 2 assists v Swansea if Vorn didn't make a good save from Weimann and Benteke didn't flop 6 yards out.
I think the combination of the midfield 4 has helped.
Dropping NZogbia has also helped IMO
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I'm with the shin.
Time to iron shit out is what they have had.
Not a question of picking or dropping individual players - more one of gelling as a unit - and then picking the player in form.
On another note - Whilst it maybe true that one cannot polish a turd overnight - one can, roll it in glitter - I would refer you to Messers Sullivan and Gold. :o
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the only bad game was against Everton, it will happen again this season.
the main thing is the direction we are heading, and time being given to get to where we want to be
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They've had more time together to train and get used to the new system Lambert wants them to play 85%. Guzan 10%. New players settling into the PL as they play more 5%.
This sums things up nicely.
Nice that lambert has quickly spotted the dross ie, Hutton Collins ,warnock and replaced all 3.
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Replacing N'Zogbia. With him in the team it's been like playing with ten men.
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Replacing N'Zogbia. With him in the team it's been like playing with ten men.
Agree with this. We have 11 players committed to making a difference. Commitment and graft go a long way and, as the season progresses, the quality will really start to shine through, too.
we've had talented players in the club for the last 3 seasons: the difference is that we now have a decent manager and players with a desire to win, it seems to me.
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and playing football properly and no negative crap.
Plus about half of dozen new players waiting for their chance.
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Time as a unit in competitive matches, beginning to understand the tactical requirements. Also bringing in the new players has brought in a buzz around the club.
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Nzogbia losing the ball 75% of the time has been eliminated (not playing him in latter games) Guzan`s domination of his box. Confidence slowly being installed with more games and training. And now the arrival of Benteke (especially scoring on debut) .....
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You can't polish a turd overnight.
While I agree with the overall sentiment that it's going to take time to learn PL's system and gel as an overall unit ... I think it's more than a coincidence that they completely flipped the script in just a weeks time between the Everton and Newcastle game ... and that's when we happened to make 5 personnel changes to the starting 11.
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Changing the dugouts on Match Day.
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I think the biggest influence has been the fact that it takes time for his methods to start to look like they're working.
I'd also add that, whilst the last two games were much better, we're right at the very, very early days yet, so as well as matches showing improvement, there are going to be a lot of off-days, poor, Everton-style performances between now and the end of the season, too.
We need to realise that and be prepared for it, and when these off days do happen, not shit our pants and start screaming that he's no better than McLeish.
What he is doing could, if done properly, change the course of the football side of the club for a long time to come. It is certainly long overdue, so let's let him do it.
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1. The last two games has seen a high intensity pressing game lacking in the first two. 2. Guzan 3. The diamond / narrow 442 system has suited us
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Oddly enough the West Ham and Everton games were the kind of games we got something out of under O'Neil whereas the Swansea type of game we would concede rather than score late on.
We weren't brilliant at West Ham but have played worse there and won. Watching the Everton game I got the distinct feeling that it was not unlike the 3-2 at Goodison. They all over us at times on us that day too.
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In terms of...
Playing style: time for the team to gel and get used to their roles/work ethic installed by PL
Personnel: dropping Given and N'Zogbia has strengthened the team throughout
The starting XI for the last 2 games looks relatively strong and solid compared to the team selections against West Ham and Everton. Players are falling into the right holes with everyone else doing there to do their bit as squad players to cover tactical substitutions, injuries and suspensions.
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I disagree with the OP that lichaj coming in for baker hasn't had much effect. I think we got murdered down our left side against Everton And Baker kept getting dragged inside as he's naturally a central player. Having licha in there has improved the balance IMO.
I agree that guzan has been very influential though.
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Guzan has made a massive difference. Good to see our keeper shouting at the other players and making them cover him properly.
This weekend should be interesting against Southampton. 3 points would really set us on a good path.
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Lambert from the start wanted the squad to 'buy' into what he was trying to do. It wasn't evident against West Ham, we seen 15 minutes of it against a strong Everton, lots against Newcastle and even more against Swansea. That's pretty good going considering it's a virtually new team with only 4 league games gone.
There are some stand out players so far but overall it has been a a great team effort that has got us going.
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time. that is main difference. the squad will rotate i think and this season will be one of peaks and troughs! important we stick with lambert and when it goes wrong and we lose a few games dont start the slagging off. but there will be the usual numpties who will anyway! i am waiting for the first time that the phrase, 'but we have no natural width' is used!.
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time. that is main difference. the squad will rotate i think and this season will be one of peaks and troughs! important we stick with lambert and when it goes wrong and we lose a few games dont start the slagging off. but there will be the usual numpties who will anyway! i am waiting for the first time that the phrase, 'but we have no natural width' is used!.
but we dont , first ;D
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The other change of course is Delph. What's happened to him is he injured or just dropped. He's not even on the bench now.
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I struggle to see City or Chelsea having natural width. they play through the middle and rotate around, a lot of what we have started doing. I wouldnt mind relieving either of those teams their current (borrowed) titles, and returning them home
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I think it's a combination of everything that the opening post suggested. Dropping N'Zogbia and Given seems to have made a difference although Baker can consider himself unlucky.
Another thing i think that has worked well is having two hard working midfielders in Bannan and Holman. They both cover a lot of ground. I like Bannan a lot. If he keeps his place, this could be the season where he develops into a really good player for us.
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The other change of course is Delph. What's happened to him is he injured or just dropped. He's not even on the bench now.
Just unlucky I think. He scored and played well against Tranmere but hasn't had a look in since. Maybe he will return V Man City in the next round of the CoC?
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I was surprised PL picked Delfouneso and Herd over Ireland and Holman v Everton, albeit we were poor v West Ham, very odd decision, glad he has not done that again since.
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Considering players like Herd and Delph are on the sidelines now, and Albrighton and Dunne will be returning soon, it shows what competition there is in the squad.
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West Ham- 9 times out of 10 is a nil nil, that goal shouldn't have been allowed.
Everton- Given could have done so much better on 2 of the goals.
Our season basically started in the second half vs Everton.
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We are in the early stages of how PL's idea of how we should play it will take time but I like what I'm seeing so far.
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I agree with all of the strategic and player specific comments – but for me, overall, we're treating the ball as our friend, something to keep close and love, not something which is on fire and something to get rid of as soon and as far as possible.
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Our season basically started in the second half vs Everton.
That occurred to me as well. We did pretty well in the second half - plulled a goal back despite being reduced to 10 men.
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Our season basically started in the second half vs Everton.
That occurred to me as well. We did pretty well in the second half - plulled a goal back despite being reduced to 10 men.
The Tranmere game was a turning point for me. Getting that first win (no matter the opposition) was important for everyone and it gave us that little bit of confidence we needed.
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I think i misunderstood what Bannon was all about - i thought he was the show pony MF player that likes to spray hollywood balls about but now looking at his stats and his movement and total mileage in a game i can see how he now fits into the bigger picture and i like what i see
Him and Holman just run their collective balls off and that if nothing else on Saturday wore Swansea down and allowed us to domintate them
great to see
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West Ham- 9 times out of 10 is a nil nil, that goal shouldn't have been allowed.
Why?
Clark headed it on, the player was clearly not offside.
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West Ham- 9 times out of 10 is a nil nil, that goal shouldn't have been allowed.
Why?
Clark headed it on, the player was clearly not offside.
I agree unless there was some other unreported infringement which we have collectively missed.
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I think i misunderstood what Bannon was all about - i thought he was the show pony MF player that likes to spray hollywood balls about but now looking at his stats and his movement and total mileage in a game i can see how he now fits into the bigger picture and i like what i see
Him and Holman just run their collective balls off and that if nothing else on Saturday wore Swansea down and allowed us to domintate them
great to see
I was really impressed with Bannan on sat,it was a really mature performance. Just shows what good coaching can do.
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West Ham- 9 times out of 10 is a nil nil, that goal shouldn't have been allowed.
Why?
Clark headed it on, the player was clearly not offside.
I agree unless there was some other unreported infringement which we have collectively missed.
There wasn't, much as we wanted it to be offside, the referee got it right, unfortunately.
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I think the manager has got his message across about how he wants us to play and also sent out a clear message about competition for places. If you have a poor game there is a big chance you won't start the next one, let alone be given the luxury of a run of bad games.
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They are almost a brand new team, so they are just starting to gel... we will do well and have the odd set back but we caught Everton full of confidence and the west ham game was just a bad luck as the team had injuries.
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Man shitty in the cup next week is massive for us. If we can catch them on the back foot and get a result then our confidence will be skyhigh. I said this before, they will be concentrating on Champions league and defending their Prem title. I cannot see them putting anywhere near a full strength side out. If we can beat Southampton on Saturday i think we can do City in the cup. JMO.
Then the Oldbion better watch out.
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Man shitty in the cup next week is massive for us. If we can catch them on the back foot and get a result then our confidence will be skyhigh. I said this before, they will be concentrating on Champions league and defending their Prem title. I cannot see them putting anywhere near a full strength side out. If we can beat Southampton on Saturday i think we can do City in the cup. JMO.
Then the Oldbion better watch out.
Unfortunately, their below strength team is still a team of full internationals that cost them a fortune. It will be interesting to see how PL approaches this game and what kind of line up he goes with. Part of me would like to see a full strength team going up there with the intention of winning the tie, but the game also presents a good opportunity to give some players much needed game time and a chance for the likes of Bennett and Westwood to make their full debuts (if they haven't already by then).
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Man shitty in the cup next week is massive for us. If we can catch them on the back foot and get a result then our confidence will be skyhigh. I said this before, they will be concentrating on Champions league and defending their Prem title. I cannot see them putting anywhere near a full strength side out. If we can beat Southampton on Saturday i think we can do City in the cup. JMO.
Then the Oldbion better watch out.
Unfortunately, their below strength team is still a team of full internationals that cost them a fortune. It will be interesting to see how PL approaches this game and what kind of line up he goes with. Part of me would like to see a full strength team going up there with the intention of winning the tie, but the game also presents a good opportunity to give some players much needed game time and a chance for the likes of Bennett and Westwood to make their full debuts (if they haven't already by then).
Starting them against Man City would be throwing them into the too deep end, would probably put against Southampton on saturday.
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One thing that puzzles me is that whenever they mention us on MOTD they always go on about how terrible we were against West Ham. We lost, sure, but we dominated them first half and had we put away one or two chances to capitalise on that dominance it would have been seen as a professional if unremarkable win.
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One thing that puzzles me is that whenever they mention us on MOTD they always go on about how terrible we were against West Ham. We lost, sure, but we dominated them first half and had we put away one or two chances to capitalise on that dominance it would have been seen as a professional if unremarkable win.
absolutly agree with this,
i have been banging on about the first 30 mins against West Ham where we passed the ball as good as i've seen in years, the result went against us because we couldnt on the day create many actual chances, but the signs of good football for the coming season were there straight away,
i was a Lambert convert from that game on, as i was one of the people who were unsure of him to begin with
but like you say we lost so we must have been shit, funnily enough there were plenty on here who thought the same not just MOTD
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The thing about West Ham was that it was pretty poor as a game in and of itself, so it's easy to tag the losing side in a poor game as being poor. We probably deserved a draw and if we had got it they'd be saying we 'did OK' at West Ham, which is probably a better reflection of our overall play that day.
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Calm down everyone, the Guardian still think we're shit:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/sep/21/premier-league-weekend-demba-ba
There are some things no football manager should tolerate: personal abuse, tantrums from subs, and losing to the current Aston Villa team.
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West Ham- 9 times out of 10 is a nil nil, that goal shouldn't have been allowed.
Why?
Clark headed it on, the player was clearly not offside.
I agree unless there was some other unreported infringement which we have collectively missed.
There wasn't, much as we wanted it to be offside, the referee got it right, unfortunately.
Yes it was a legitimate goal, but usually when the linesman flags for offside, it's given offside, not overturned by the referee.
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For me it's the fact we no longer seem to be consistently hoofing the ball from the backline, only for it to be sent back against us as it failed to stick with an attacker
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What are the biggest reasons for the 180 difference since
the first two weeks? last week ?
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What are the biggest reasons for the 180 difference since the first two weeks? last week ?
Amongst some fans or the team?
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What are the biggest reasons for the 180 difference since the first two weeks? last week ?
Amongst some fans or the team?
I just reckon after next week we will be challenging for Europe and then the following week getting relegated again.
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last week and today sum up what its going to be like for the forseeable being a Villa fan
we have to face facts - we are on a par with Norwich city
like it or loathe it, thats where we are
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What are the biggest reasons for the 180 difference since the first two weeks? last week ?
Amongst some fans or the team?
I just reckon after next week we will be challenging for Europe and then the following week getting relegated again.
It will be important, as much as it will be difficult at times to try to keep an even keel. By our very nature as football fans, and especially fans of a club like ours where we haven't seen much actual success in a good while not too get too excited or too down. That said, it's a project down there and Lambert knows it more than anyone. He won't let this get to him and his job now is to ensure his players move on quickly and are focused for the week ahead.
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Can we change the title of this thread?!
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The fans are looking up, then they're feeling really down, theyre feeling really down, they're feeling really down.
Looking up, then feeling down, looking up, then feeling down.
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No worries
Would not like to be on the training pitch with Lambert next week.
He will be kicking arse and having serious words with certain players.
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Will be a season of highs and lows rather than last seasons mainly lows, a learning curve and valuable experience- I'm surprised the gnasher hasn't reappeared this weekend.
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What I liked about the reaction to the Swansea result was that there weren't too many of us getting carried away and predicting a top 6 finish. And although I've only skimmed the post-match thread from Saturday, it seems the same in terms of not too much despondency and understanding there will be days like that during what is primarily a rebuilding season.
"Meet triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same."
As for ehat went wrong, I think tactically Southampton sussed that our fullbacks could be got at due to lack of natural protection from a narrow midfield, which may have been contributed to by the Ireland/Westwood sub, plus Rickie Lambert had probably the best 45 minutes he'll ever have in the Premier League.
What we need to learn from it:-
1. Westwood needs to adust to the pace of the PL.
2. We need to be able to shift formation to protect our FBs when needed.
3. We need to be more professional and learn to take the sting out of a game when needed.
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In all honesty outside the top 6 or so clubs there is much of a muchness and the rest can all beat each other - we could finish anywhere between 8th and 16th depending how we progress, top 6 is not realistic this season .
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With the inexperience in the squad, but the raw talent too, we'll have a lot of Swansea and Southampton.
Inexplicable feast or famine.
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In all honesty outside the top 6 or so clubs there is much of a muchness and the rest can all beat each other - we could finish anywhere between 8th and 16th depending how we progress, top 6 is not realistic this season .
I recall Richard Moore commenting these last few seasons on how poor the PL is outside the top 4 and he had a point. However, this season I think we're seeing plenty of teams that can play a bit. Southampton's movement and passing was excellent on Saturday, they're certainly not a bad team despite their results to date. I think the number of quality players joining the PL's smaller teams has certainly changed, who'd have thought a few years ago a team like Southampton could sign a player like Ramirez, Swansea with Michu or players like Green, Park and Hoillett joining bloody QPR?
The other obvious change is the style of play. With the possible exception of Stoke, almost all teams are playing a more technical, passing game. Of course we're going to struggle in this area, we've been hoofing it for far too long and it'll take time to catch up. Still, better late than never. What we do need to do is show teams some respect. We tried to match Southampton with an open game and got deservedly stuffed. A bit more tactical caution away from home may be needed. We can save the cavalier approach for Villa Park, a place where I think we will finally start getting the performances and victories under Lambert&Co.