Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on August 17, 2012, 01:18:26 PM
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Don't bite my head off, and I am donning my tin hat as I write this, but I was thinking about PL's apparent interest in Defoe.
Bearing in mind the current need to wheel and deal on finances, and MON's liking of players who've done well for him before, how would people react if MON now took that 14m he'd offered for Fletcher, and offered it to us for Gabby, with us then going out and spending a little over half of it on Defoe?
So:
Gabby -> Sunderland for £14m
Defoe -> us for 8m
Leaving us with 6m to spend elsewhere.
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It would be like all our christmas's coming at once.
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I'd take Defoe, but personally I think we can afford him outright & we have a bit more money to spend than than people think.
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Wouldn't like to see Gabby go but looking at it objectively that would be a good piece of business...
When I saw that there was interest in Defoe and Kenwyne Jones I thought that they would both be good additions that wouldn't require getting rid of existing players but would provide a good choice of complementary and versatile strikers...
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Personally I'd like to give Gabby some time and see how he reacts during the first few games.
Gabby has the potential to be a great player, I just don't think anyone other than MON has managed to squeeze it out of him.
If, say, by January MON is still interested and Gabby is playing like a soggy sock, then yes, do it.
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Would anyone pay £14m for Gabby? I know transfer prices are silly these days but any transfer involving Liverpool aside, they're not that silly are they?!
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Would anyone pay £14m for Gabby? I know transfer prices are silly these days but any transfer involving Liverpool aside, they're not that silly are they?!
Martin probably would. They're supposed to have offered 14 for Fletcher, so I reckon he'd offer it for Gabby.
If you like, ignore the figures, a deal with Sunderland and one with Spurs that left us with a decent bit of cash to spend elsewhere.
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If there is anything in the Defoe rumours I'd say it's more likely that Bent could be off.
Where to- I'm not so sure. I can't think of many clubs bigger than us who'd want him and any clubs of similar stature who could afford him.
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Prefer to keep Gabby. If Bent is gonna be the main man,he needs a different kind of striker to play with,either a big lump,someone who can run the channels(Gab) or a link up player. Defoe is none of these.
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Defoe and Bent are too similar. They can't play together. At least with Gabby, he's got the ability to use his pace in the channels and out wide to free up Bent. They could do well together I think, if Gabby hits his best form. I want to see him for Lambert.
If Defoe was happy to come here and fight it out with Bent for the main strike spot, then it'd be okay, but he's a player who could easily find a club who'll play him week in week out, and one who finished a lot higher than we did last season.
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If there is anything in the Defoe rumours I'd say it's more likely that Bent could be off.
Where to- I'm not so sure. I can't think of many clubs bigger than us who'd want him and any clubs of similar stature who could afford him.
Can't see Bent being off, he seems very happy and looking forward to playing this season.
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Bent and Defoe have already demonstrated that they can't play together and in a side that created far more chances than we're likely to do next season. Then there's the question of wages that Defoe is likely to want and his age. That's without considering that Gabby although he's stuttered for a couple of seasons (haven't they all) was showing year on year improvement prior to that and I'd bank on him getting back on track under Lambert.
Total non-starter for me.
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Defoe scores goals more often than Gabby. The only reason there's any doubt is that we'd be letting go of a confirmed Villa fan. That's a sad thing to admit, but Defoe is the better player and he'd work well for us.
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Gabby isn't good enough but on the basis that Spurs ain't got a striker it's not going to happen, But I'd take it
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What surprised me earlier was when I looked up Defoe's stats and saw he's only once scored 15 league in a season in the top flight.
I'm torn on whether i'd want us to sign him, he's 30 soon and i'd have thought he'd want hefty wages.
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I think Defoe and Bent can play together as long as you don't play them up front as a two. If you play Defoe either side of Bent, with Bent being the recognised lone forward then it can be done in my opinion. Defoe is infinitely better as a goal threat than Gabby and he can do indivisual things like he did the other night vs Italy that Gabby could never do. If MON offered Fletcher money for Gabby, and Defoe on a three year deal for about half that is a good deal. I love Gabby but if you look at it without emotion of Gabby being local lad done good, then it makes sense in a number of ways.
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Defoe would want big wages, and presumably he'd expect to play every game. So that would mean pairing him with Bent, and that categorically did not work at Spurs. It's not even hypothetical, we KNOW it doesn't work.
I don't think we need anyone to play alongside Bent, anyway. These days the way to go is to stick one up front and get the support up to him quick, playing in between the lines. Better off pushing Ireland forward in a free role and telling him to slot balls through for Bent at every opportunity.
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I think Defoe and Bent can play together as long as you don't play them up front as a two. If you play Defoe either side of Bent, with Bent being the recognised lone forward then it can be done in my opinion. Defoe is infinitely better as a goal threat than Gabby and he can do indivisual things like he did the other night vs Italy that Gabby could never do. If MON offered Fletcher money for Gabby, and Defoe on a three year deal for about half that is a good deal. I love Gabby but if you look at it without emotion of Gabby being local lad done good, then it makes sense in a number of ways.
I don't think Defoe has enough in his game to play wide. He's also too selfish with the ball to play anywhere but Bents position. Likewise Bent would be terrible playing wide.
I mean I love to have both of them in the squad, but in all honesty there's no chance Defoe would come here without being garaunteed a 1st team spot. I don't even think he'd come here if he was. Not unless we pay him a top wage. If he's gonna move, it'll be to someone willing to pay him big wages. Maybe MON will fancy him.
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I think Defoe and Bent can play together as long as you don't play them up front as a two. If you play Defoe either side of Bent, with Bent being the recognised lone forward then it can be done in my opinion. Defoe is infinitely better as a goal threat than Gabby and he can do indivisual things like he did the other night vs Italy that Gabby could never do. If MON offered Fletcher money for Gabby, and Defoe on a three year deal for about half that is a good deal. I love Gabby but if you look at it without emotion of Gabby being local lad done good, then it makes sense in a number of ways.
Defoe has nothing to his game other than his finishing, he's an out and out striker and playing him anywhere else is a total waste of time. It's just wishful thinking to suggest what didn't work when they were together at Spurs might miraculously work here.
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Isn't Defoe Spurs only striker on their books? Can't see them letting him go.
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I think Defoe and Bent can play together as long as you don't play them up front as a two. If you play Defoe either side of Bent, with Bent being the recognised lone forward then it can be done in my opinion. Defoe is infinitely better as a goal threat than Gabby and he can do indivisual things like he did the other night vs Italy that Gabby could never do. If MON offered Fletcher money for Gabby, and Defoe on a three year deal for about half that is a good deal. I love Gabby but if you look at it without emotion of Gabby being local lad done good, then it makes sense in a number of ways.
Defoe has nothing to his game other than his finishing, he's an out and out striker and playing him anywhere else is a total waste of time. It's just wishful thinking to suggest what didn't work when they were together at Spurs might miraculously work here.
I stated my opinion Chris. Feel free to state yours as opposed to simply criticising mine. It's not wishful thinking as much as it is a suggestion that just because Redknapp couldn't get it to work that nobody can. As for Gabby there's little to Gabby's game right now other than his pace and even that is going to decline and be less effective because of his injuries.
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I think Defoe and Bent can play together as long as you don't play them up front as a two. If you play Defoe either side of Bent, with Bent being the recognised lone forward then it can be done in my opinion. Defoe is infinitely better as a goal threat than Gabby and he can do indivisual things like he did the other night vs Italy that Gabby could never do. If MON offered Fletcher money for Gabby, and Defoe on a three year deal for about half that is a good deal. I love Gabby but if you look at it without emotion of Gabby being local lad done good, then it makes sense in a number of ways.
I don't think Defoe has enough in his game to play wide. He's also too selfish with the ball to play anywhere but Bents position. Likewise Bent would be terrible playing wide.
I mean I love to have both of them in the squad, but in all honesty there's no chance Defoe would come here without being garaunteed a 1st team spot. I don't even think he'd come here if he was. Not unless we pay him a top wage. If he's gonna move, it'll be to someone willing to pay him big wages. Maybe MON will fancy him.
I also happen to think the same in that he won't come here anyway because of wages and expectations. He's an upgrade to Gabby in my opinion because he can finish and I don't see Lambert playing two up front all the time. If Defoe came her he'd have to be flexible and I'm not sold that he couldn't play in a deeper role.
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If it's a balancing act I'd sell Bent before Gabby and re-invest that money
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I think Defoe and Bent can play together as long as you don't play them up front as a two. If you play Defoe either side of Bent, with Bent being the recognised lone forward then it can be done in my opinion. Defoe is infinitely better as a goal threat than Gabby and he can do indivisual things like he did the other night vs Italy that Gabby could never do. If MON offered Fletcher money for Gabby, and Defoe on a three year deal for about half that is a good deal. I love Gabby but if you look at it without emotion of Gabby being local lad done good, then it makes sense in a number of ways.
Defoe has nothing to his game other than his finishing, he's an out and out striker and playing him anywhere else is a total waste of time. It's just wishful thinking to suggest what didn't work when they were together at Spurs might miraculously work here.
I stated my opinion Chris. Feel free to state yours as opposed to simply criticising mine. It's not wishful thinking as much as it is a suggestion that just because Redknapp couldn't get it to work that nobody can. As for Gabby there's little to Gabby's game right now other than his pace and even that is going to decline and be less effective because of his injuries.
I can only assume that you haven't read the thread as I've posted on the first page
They're the same type of players, out and out finishers who without goals contribute very little. That's why I don't think they worked together, they both want to make the same runs and do the same job.
In addition Lambert talks about players having the right character, I'm not convinced.
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gabby plays with his heart on his sleeve and deserves more credit than he is given he has a 1 in 4 league ratio sets up more than his fair share of goals and also contributes more defensively than some of our old center backs did. the 1-4 ratio is pretty poor for a striker but considering he gets stuck out on the wing more than he should that 1 in 4 looks more like a 1 in 3 also would you rather have gabby working his socks off for the cause including scoring in most derbys he plays or defoe trying to score 20 in a season so he can angle a move to liverpool/arsenal.
all the above ignores the fact that i think defoe is pants. he had 2 good seasons 5 years ago and has done very little since. just my opinion
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gabby plays with his heart on his sleeve and deserves more credit than he is given he has a 1 in 4 league ratio sets up more than his fair share of goals and also contributes more defensively than some of our old center backs did. the 1-4 ratio is pretty poor for a striker but considering he gets stuck out on the wing more than he should that 1 in 4 looks more like a 1 in 3 also would you rather have gabby working his socks off for the cause including scoring in most derbys he plays or defoe trying to score 20 in a season so he can angle a move to liverpool/arsenal.
all the above ignores the fact that i think defoe is pants. he had 2 good seasons 5 years ago and has done very little since. just my opinion
Gabby sulks on the wing and has the movement of an 80 year old oak tree.
Defoe scores goals.
In the scenario above I would take the deal, as Bent being injured means we don't score goals, and Defoe would ensure that we had top cover for him. If I was signing a partner for Bent, it would not be either, it would be Carroll, or indeed I could seethe sense in Jones. Essentially though, a profit of 8 million on Gabby with Defoe coming in would be incredible business, and will never happen.
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Spot on jim, Gabby will never learn what bent does if he studied bent for the next million years
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They're the same type of players, out and out finishers who without goals contribute very little.
When was the last time Darren Bent chased a ball down the wing turned inside a defender and scored in the top corner from 20 yards out? They are different players. Bent is the best 6 yard box player in the PL, and Defoe while he's decent at that has also shown the ability throughout his career to score in a number of different ways.
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I voted yes, but on reflection I've changed my mind. Gabby and Bent hasn't really worked when they've played together. We know that Bent and Defoe can't play together, but Gabby and Defoe might just work. So how about swapping Bent for Defoe plus between £10 - 15 million?
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Bent and Gabby worked fine up until November last season. Then after the Norwich game Gabby seemed to decide he'd got enough goals and assists for the season. If we can get that early season form for them we'll be fine and so will they as a partnership.
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They're the same type of players, out and out finishers who without goals contribute very little.
When was the last time Darren Bent chased a ball down the wing turned inside a defender and scored in the top corner from 20 yards out? They are different players. Bent is the best 6 yard box player in the PL, and Defoe while he's decent at that has also shown the ability throughout his career to score in a number of different ways.
We have evidence to show that they have struggled to play together, surely no sensible manager would risk his limited transfer budget, not to mention wages, on the vague hope that it might be different this time.
People are pinning too much on vague answers given to questions put to him, he said similar about Andy Carrol a few weeks ago and that was never on the cards.
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They're the same type of players, out and out finishers who without goals contribute very little.
When was the last time Darren Bent chased a ball down the wing turned inside a defender and scored in the top corner from 20 yards out? They are different players. Bent is the best 6 yard box player in the PL, and Defoe while he's decent at that has also shown the ability throughout his career to score in a number of different ways.
We have evidence to show that they have struggled to play together, surely no sensible manager would risk his limited transfer budget, not to mention wages, on the vague hope that it might be different this time.
People are pinning too much on vague answers given to questions put to him, he said similar about Andy Carrol a few weeks ago and that was never on the cards.
The first 3 months of last season is evidence they can work together. Something like 11 goals and 8 assists between them.
The next 3 months Bent still scored but Gabby was crap. Then Bent got injured. A bit of an irony that the last time they turned anyone over together was Norwich. I'm sure Lambert would have noticed what they did to his side that afternoon.
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Why not, if it is in the offering let's do it.
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Bit generous giving Bent equal billing in the '11 goals and 8 assists' PWS. Think he got 5 of those goals, fair enough (though you'd expect him to get more than Gabby who was playing on the wing) but how many of the 8 assists? I remember Gabby setting him up with a few that Mrs Redknapp could have scored, but I can't remember him returning the favour.
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I wouldn't say no to Defoe.
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Bit generous giving Bent equal billing in the '11 goals and 8 assists' PWS. Think he got 5 of those goals, fair enough (though you'd expect him to get more than Gabby who was playing on the wing) but how many of the 8 assists? I remember Gabby setting him up with a few that Mrs Redknapp could have scored, but I can't remember him returning the favour.
That's my point though, Gabby was setting up Bent which meant they were working well together for a while. And they were both scoring. So in my eyes they worked well together for 3 months and didn't for 3 months. So it's hard to say there's evidence they struggled to work together when there's the same amount of evidence that they do.
To me how well they work can together longer term is down to Gabby. If we can see a lot more of the early season Gabby then they will, if we see the Gabby that was on show for the majority of the rest of the season then they won't.
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Would anyone pay £14m for Gabby? I know transfer prices are silly these days but any transfer involving Liverpool aside, they're not that silly are they?!
Id snatch their hands off if they offered half of that , defoe is a finisher whereas gabby isnt , would be more than happy to see defoe replace him.
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Gabby -> Sunderland for £14m
Defoe -> us for 8m
Gabby to Sunderland for £14m..you gone mad? Only a total lunatic with no sense of money value would pay that sort of money...errrm oh hang on just realised who is in charge there.
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Would anyone pay £14m for Gabby? I know transfer prices are silly these days but any transfer involving Liverpool aside, they're not that silly are they?!
Id snatch their hands off if they offered half of that , defoe is a finisher whereas gabby isnt , would be more than happy to see defoe replace him.
Wouldn't be happy accepting anything less than 9/10m for Gabby...and as you say eastie, Defoe is a scorer - he's a finisher similar to Bent but also scores a fair share of self-made goals like he did the other night and several times this season for Spuds even when not playing regularly/on bench. I think he'd gives us something extra.
He would want big wages though and expect to play most games, and Lambert is well known for "rotating" his players/teams. He wants a playing collective, not a set of superstars. (I think!?)
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They're the same type of players, out and out finishers who without goals contribute very little.
When was the last time Darren Bent chased a ball down the wing turned inside a defender and scored in the top corner from 20 yards out? They are different players. Bent is the best 6 yard box player in the PL, and Defoe while he's decent at that has also shown the ability throughout his career to score in a number of different ways.
We have evidence to show that they have struggled to play together, surely no sensible manager would risk his limited transfer budget, not to mention wages, on the vague hope that it might be different this time.
People are pinning too much on vague answers given to questions put to him, he said similar about Andy Carrol a few weeks ago and that was never on the cards.
they struggled to play with each other under Redknapp. Who's to say they couldn't under a different manager? We just don't know so it's not as cut and dried as you are making out. Additionally, Bent was always going to play second fiddle to Defoe who Redknapp had at West Ham and Portsmouth. Most people are just being hypothetical and not putting any significant stock from what I can see into the comments made by Lambert . It's transfer gossip and being treated as such by most on here.
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Didn't we have him up here before and he said no ? don't think he would want to leave the smoke,but i rate him ,i would have him in like a shot .
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Can't really see the point.
Bent's better at that role and Defoe won't swap Spurs bench for our bench.
I've got no real problem signing a striker if that's what Lambert wants, but surely a different type of striker would make more sense.
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We may see Gabby and Defoe playing for the Villa.
I think that the only striker to leave will be Bent, and I don't think that is very likely.
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Buy Defoe and swap Bent for Carroll, keep Gabby.
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Buy Defoe and swap Bent for Carroll, keep Gabby.
Paulie's hypothetical scenario was to give us similar but slightly more limited striking options while making us a profit.
Yours seems to end up with worse strikers while costing us a load of money.
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Buy Defoe and swap Bent for Carroll, keep Gabby.
Paulie's hypothetical scenario was to give us similar but slightly more limited striking options while making us a profit.
Yours seems to end up with worse strikers while costing us a load of money.
I refuse to believe that any man of sane disposition would swap Bent for Carroll.
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Ah, the old 'I think so much of my opinion, people who disagree with it must be lunatics' line. It's been a while.
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Ah, the old 'I think so much of my opinion, people who disagree with it must be lunatics' line. It's been a while.
To be fair Percy, he's right.
Carroll for Bent would be mental, the kind of deal TSM would have done.
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I wouldn't say no to Defoe.
Defoe said no to Villa twice under MON and will do so again if necessary because he will not leave London. If he moves anywhere it will be to QPR.
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QPR must be assembling the biggest wage bill outside the top 4.
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I can't see Lambert being in for Defoe at all.
I don't know Defoe, but my guess is he'd be the kind of player who'd be more motivated by money and status, a culture Lambert is hellbent on getting out of the club.
I may be wrong.
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Where did this come from? I nearly spat me chips out when I saw Kenwyn bloody Jones in the same sentence as Defoe!
Defoe is a bright lights boy and Broad Street ain't got enough wattage...
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Buy Defoe and swap Bent for Carroll, keep Gabby.
Are you Mcleish in disguise?
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Defoe is the kind of player who eventually gets here when he is about 35 and totally crippled.