Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Clark W Griswold on May 14, 2012, 05:44:08 PM
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Well, the seasons over, based purely on ability / attitude who do you think should be sold this summer?
I'd say;
Collins
Warnock
N'Zogbia
Delph
And i assume the following are going on free transfers;
Heskey
Cuellar
Beye
Guzan
That's quite a few to replace, but also a lot off the wage bill. Hopefully we can get some Bosmans in, promote from the youth set up and maybe have a few million to spend to replace them all. A big job for any new manager.
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Delph? Why him. With a decent injurry free run, and of course keeping out of trouble, he has the makings of a really great player. If we sell him we'd be nuts.
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Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Hutton, NZogbia, Albrighton, Ireland
I honestly think we need a massive clear out
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Yeah, thought that one might raise an eyebrow and i must admit i saw massive potential before that bad injury a couple of years ago. Doesn't look like he's recovered or likely to recover to me though, and just keeps getting more injuries. Getting involved in the aggro last week was the icing on the cake, i don't think he'll ever reach his potential.
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For me, the only ones i'd keep, are Eric, Given, Bent, N'Zog, Baker, Ireland, Herd, Weimann....the rest can go as far as i'm concearned.
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Id get Agbonlahor out before any of the others. Complete waste of space!!
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GOALKEEPERS
Shay Given - In
Brad Guzan - In
DEFENDERS
Alan Hutton - Out
Stephen Warnock - Out
Richard Dunne - Out
James Collins - Out
Ciaran Clark - In
Carlos Cuellar - Out
Enda Stevens - In
Eric Lichaj - In
Nathan Baker - In
Derrick Williams - Untested yet
MIDFIELDERS
Stephen Ireland - In
Jermaine Jenas - Out
Charles N'zogbia - Maybe (sell if right offer comes our way)
Marc Albrighton - In (one more season to see if he can up his game)
Fabian Delph - Undecided
Stiliyan Petrov -
Barry Bannan - In
Chris Herd - In
Daniel Johnson - In
Gary Gardner - In
FORWARDS
Darren Bent - In
Gabriel Agbonlahor - In
Nathan Delfouneso - Out (not going to get the chances now Weimann has pushed on)
Emile Heskey - Out
Andreas Weimann - In
Graham Burke - Not yet had the chance to see what he can do.
That should free up some money for replacements to strengthen the gaps left.
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Can't believe people want to sell N'Zogbia and Ireland. They are our only actual 'footballers' in the team. Under a manager that can properly coordinate and offensive strategy I think both of them will become great impact players.
I think Dunne and Collins are both gone. They openly conflict with managers too often and they pretty much gave up on Houllier. Nathan and Ciaran have to step up next year. Go out and get one experienced center back and rotate these two in accordingly.
Hutton just isn't a footballer. Doesn't have the smarts or the ability. He's a decent athlete but I don't think he can cut it at this level and might become a serious liability.
I hate to say this but.. Super Marc. If a decent offer came in for him I'd take it. But he is still fairly young and under a different manager he might flourish. We'll see what happens.
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Alan Hutton - worse right back ever!
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Delph? Why him. With a decent injurry free run, and of course keeping out of trouble, he has the makings of a really great player. If we sell him we'd be nuts.
Couldnt agree more. He has the fast skills needed in the Prem but needs the right manager.
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In my view, this discussion comes after a new manager is appointed
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"We" shouldn't sell anyone. Different players perform in completely different ways for managers, so we'll just have to see who shines under the new management.
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Why does everyone seem to think Collins should be out? He's been great for a lot of the season, and I would fancy him for captain next season.
Zog's shown that he can be a good player, I think he's similar to Stephen Ireland in that sense, and we need to keep giving him opportunities to show himself. Delph, of course, is still only 22, and also has had few opportunities to probe himself.
We can't just get rid of everyone and assume we're going to get better players in, this thread is ridiculous.
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GOALKEEPERS
Shay Given - In
Brad Guzan - In
DEFENDERS
Alan Hutton - Out
Stephen Warnock - Out
Richard Dunne - Out
James Collins - Out
Ciaran Clark - In
Carlos Cuellar - Out
Enda Stevens - In
Eric Lichaj - In
Nathan Baker - In
Derrick Williams - Untested yet
MIDFIELDERS
Stephen Ireland - In
Jermaine Jenas - Out
Charles N'zogbia - Maybe (sell if right offer comes our way)
Marc Albrighton - In (one more season to see if he can up his game)
Fabian Delph - Undecided
Stiliyan Petrov -
Barry Bannan - In
Chris Herd - In
Daniel Johnson - In
Gary Gardner - In
FORWARDS
Darren Bent - In
Gabriel Agbonlahor - In
Nathan Delfouneso - Out (not going to get the chances now Weimann has pushed on)
Emile Heskey - Out
Andreas Weimann - In
Graham Burke - Not yet had the chance to see what he can do.
That should free up some money for replacements to strengthen the gaps left.
GK
I've heard it rumoured that Guzan is a high wage earner - so get rid.
Defence
Hutton - deffo out
Dunne - Mr Goal-a-game - out!
Warock - keep - he does offer something and can cover midfield
Collins - keep as he's experienced and unlikely to get much better without major expense
Midfield and forwards
Agreed!
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I wouldn't be upset if both Warnock and Dunne toddled off into the sunset together, Hutton and Collins I would keep. I think we badly need to strengthen midfield more than anything, a priority should be a strong central midfielder who can break up play and isn't Karl Henry.
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I'm looking forward to seeing what N'zogbia can do under a proper manager.
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Actually if the new manager is Martinez then it would make sense to keep NZogbia
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I'm so excited!!!! The thoughts of a new manager, a clear out and a new look, lean and hungry squad!!!!
Roll on the good times.
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For those wanting to keep Agbonlahor - can I ask why? (in peace)
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For me, it's because he's a good player, hard-working and fast as lightening, in most normal seasons he has a habit of cropping with crucial goals, and usually scores a decent amount, he is still at an age where under the right guidance he can develop his play further, and is a least as good as anyone that we could afford to replace him.
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Why does everyone seem to think Collins should be out? He's been great for a lot of the season, and I would fancy him for captain next season.
Captain?!!! He's fine against hoofball teams like Stoke and Blackburn but against forwards with pace and movement he gets found out time and again. That said I'd keep him as a squad player. Just can't understand why over the last 2 seasons he's been an automatic pick when fit.
Sell
Hutton
Warnock
Dunne
Delph
Delfounso
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For me, try and get as much as possible for Dunne and Collins (BOGOF?) along with Warnock and Fonz.
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Why does everyone seem to think Collins should be out? He's been great for a lot of the season, and I would fancy him for captain next season.
Captain?!!! He's fine against hoofball teams like Stoke and Blackburn but against forwards with pace and movement he gets found out time and again. That said I'd keep him as a squad player. Just can't understand why over the last 2 seasons he's been an automatic pick when fit.
I'm only saying Captain because we're desperately short of matured outfield players who have been at the club for a while.
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I would keep Hutton - give him another chance under a decent manager. He wasn't that bad at Spuds was he?
Warnock I wouldn't mind either way. I think he can offer something as a utility back-up player.
Albrighton - tough one. Local boy, but really hasn't come on like we hoped. Confidence player though, so if he finds some from the new manager, you never know.
Gabby - really his last chance next season. Needs to find the form of 4 years ago. Hasn't been the same since he beefed up significantly.
Dunne / Collins - wouldn't mind keeping them, if they behave.
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Same here, really. I think if we're serious about changing the way we play, then that means Dunne & Collins need replacing as far as I'm concerned.
Beyond that, well there's lots of the old potential, isn't there? I do think that we have enough in the squad to tempt managers - Ireland, N'Zogbia, Bent, Agbonlahor, Makoun, Albrighton, Weimann & 'the kids'. I reckon an ambitious manager would see that lot as not a bad starting point.
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Given and bent are the only regulars I'd be sad to see the back of. Other than them, I suppose from a pragmatic point of view it makes sense to keep hold of all the youngsters but I'm pretty much in favour of a massive slash and burn clear out.
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Depends on how much money Lerner makes available to the new manager, really, but I'd like to see the following leave.
Hutton, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Delph, Ireland.
Ireland's done alright this season, but he's on about 60k a week, which he really isn't worth. The rest of them are shit (and have the wrong attitude).
edit: Delfouneso as well.
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I'd sell:
Warnock
Dunne
Collins
Hutton
I'd keep the rest to see how they fare next season under new manager.
If we can get someone who wants us to play football and can get more out of our attacking players, then there's a lot of potential to see greater things from:
Delph
Makoun
Bannan
GG
N'Zogbia
Albrighton.
However, all of the above, bar GG, I'd consider shipping out in Jan if they don't turn it around.
There's no doubt in my mind though that McLeish has stifled a lot of our talented players.
Gabby's history here warrants another season to turn things around. If we get the team playing well again, he could be a force once more. A front two of Gabby and Bent should be one of the best in the top flight.
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Agbonlahor
Heskey - Going
Cuellar - Gone
Bannan
Guzan
Marshall
Collins
Warnock
Delph
Hutton
Lichaj
Albrighton
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I'd sell:
Warnock
Dunne
Collins
Hutton
I'd keep the rest to see how they fare next season under new manager.
If we can get someone who wants us to play football and can get more out of our attacking players, then there's a lot of potential to see greater things from:
Delph
Makoun
Bannan
GG
N'Zogbia
Albrighton.
However, all of the above, bar GG, I'd consider shipping out in Jan if they don't turn it around.
There's no doubt in my mind though that McLeish has stifled a lot of our talented players.
Gabby's history here warrants another season to turn things around. If we get the team playing well again, he could be a force once more. A front two of Gabby and Bent should be one of the best in the top flight.
This!...
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I'd be upset to see all the kids go, The problem is they've all been thrown in at the deep end and been asked to play out of position. Ideally the new man will properly assess the talent and not resort to the cheque book straight away.
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I'd keep Dunne, sell Collins, Warnock & Hutton.
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Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Hutton
Ireland
Those 5 internationals have a lot to answer for over the last two seasons (Hutton obviously only one season of ineptness for us)
Of the rest of them, let them battle for their places in the squad.
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Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, and Collins for me.
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No one has put Bannan on the sell list, am I missing something with this kid, I think he looks well out of his depth
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Alan Hutton - worse right back ever!
This should be the first bit of dealing done!
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I'm not sure we're in a position to sell anybody, and to judge on this seasons performances is maybe a bit harsh. Dunne, Collins and were part of a fantastic defence very recently, to paraphrase McLeish, they haven't become bad players overnight. If we don't need to get rid of anyone, should we?
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Hutton
Collins - I'd keep Dunne because we look a more solid defensive unit with him in it
Fonz
Gabby
Albrighton
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No one has put Bannan on the sell list, am I missing something with this kid, I think he looks well out of his depth
Agreed
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the problem with the usual suspects is that their monumental bell endedness, huge saary aspirations and total lack of real ability will act as a massive disincentive to any prospective purchaser. Maybe the way forward with a few of them is to simply try and buy them off . It might be worth it to an incoming manager to free the club an obviously pernicious influence.
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No one has put Bannan on the sell list, am I missing something with this kid, I think he looks well out of his depth
I don't think he'll make it, but I know his game hasn't been at all helped playing for McLeish. If we get a new manager who gets us passing the ball and at least actually attacking, we might see more for him.
Personally though I don't think he'll be here in a year, nor Albrighton. Neither has enough in their locker, and Bannan's just too small, without enough of the gumption and right attitude to make up for that. Hope he proves me wrong though.
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No one has put Bannan on the sell list, am I missing something with this kid, I think he looks well out of his depth
If Blackpool win on Saturday, I could see Ollie coming in with a bid
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Hutton
Collins
dunne
warnock
Bannon
Albrighton
guzan
Fonz
can all go and Gabby If he doesnt pull his claret and blue socks up very soon.
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Bannan, at the moment, isn't really saleable. We'd be lucky to get £2m for him. Better off letting him battle for a place. Although after his behaviour this year I'd get shot personally.
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"We" shouldn't sell anyone. Different players perform in completely different ways for managers, so we'll just have to see who shines under the new management.
This is the biggest mistake McLeish made. He should have cleared out the underperformers and rebuilt the defence. In the end, he didn't have the personnel to make his ultra defensive system work.
Collins, Dunne and Warnock have had plenty of chances now and, though they can be decent on their day, those days are few and far between.
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I'd get rid of Collins, Dunne, Warnock on top of those who are leaving on frees. That would free up substantial wages as well.
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No one has put Bannan on the sell list, am I missing something with this kid, I think he looks well out of his depth
I don't think he'll make it, but I know his game hasn't been at all helped playing for McLeish. If we get a new manager who gets us passing the ball and at least actually attacking, we might see more for him.
Personally though I don't think he'll be here in a year, nor Albrighton. Neither has enough in their locker, and Bannan's just too small, without enough of the gumption and right attitude to make up for that. Hope he proves me wrong though.
As small as Billy Bremner. Never shirked a physical challenge and combined skill with scottish aggression. Bannans got skill and thats where the comparison ends.
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I don't think we should have a huge clearout. We won't get big money for most players and don't want to end up with a squad even more full of kids.
I think we may need to respond to the market, so I'd be listening to offers for Guzan, Hutton, Warnock, Collins, Dunne (but sell perhaps 2 of the outfield defenders) plus presumably Cuellar and Heskey to go.
I think there are big question marks about Delph, Bannan, Albrighton and the Fonz, but none of them would raise much cash so would also consider them for loans.
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Hutton, Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Albrighton, Bannan, Fonz, to start with.
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The defence have to carry the can for me. The amount of goals we've conceded from set pieces this season is a disgrace.
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I don't know about sell but if I were the incoming manager my first act would be to get Jean II Makoun back. If one act encapsulated the lack of judgement of our ex manager it was letting a player who cost that much go without any kind of run to prove himself.
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I don't know about sell but if I were the incoming manager my first act would be to get Jean II Makoun back. If one act encapsulated the lack of judgement of our ex manager it was letting a player who cost that much go without any kind of run to prove himself.
Yes very good point.
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Sell:
Hutton
Collins
Dunne
Bannan
Delfouneso
Bent
I know the last one is crazy but we need to start again. We do not create and unless a new manager is given roughly £50m to spend then there's no point having the final piece of the jigsaw if we've already lost 3 or 4 pieces around it.
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I don't know about sell but if I were the incoming manager my first act would be to get Jean II Makoun back. If one act encapsulated the lack of judgement of our ex manager it was letting a player who cost that much go without any kind of run to prove himself.
Not sure why such an average player will help us, though.
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I don't know about sell but if I were the incoming manager my first act would be to get Jean II Makoun back. If one act encapsulated the lack of judgement of our ex manager it was letting a player who cost that much go without any kind of run to prove himself.
Not sure why such an average player will help us, though.
Judged on a whole 7 games, in which one he was very good at Old Trafford. Luka Modric had a really poor first season in England, and he's probably reasonable.
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We're losing Cuellar and Heskey plus maybe Guzan out of contract whilst Stan's biggest battle is to regain his health not match fitness so that's another four gone from an already wafer thin squad (no jokes about Dunne please)
On that basis I'm not sure why we would want to get rid of about another ten players unless we have replacements lined up who are guaranteed to improve the squad
I'd get rid of Delfouneso who doesn't look like he'll make it and listen to offers for Collins (if we get any) but would be prepared to at least let the rest of them show the new manager that they are much better than what we saw this season.
I honestly believe a team containing Bent, Agbonlahor, N'Zogbia, Ireland and Weimann has the potential to score goals and create chances under the right leadership
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No one has put Bannan on the sell list, am I missing something with this kid, I think he looks well out of his depth
I think he's got the talent but looks like he has a chip on his shoulder also. He hasn't done much to write him off though.................yet !
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I don't know about sell but if I were the incoming manager my first act would be to get Jean II Makoun back. If one act encapsulated the lack of judgement of our ex manager it was letting a player who cost that much go without any kind of run to prove himself.
Not sure why such an average player will help us, though.
Judged on a whole 7 games, in which one he was very good at Old Trafford. Luka Modric had a really poor first season in England, and he's probably reasonable.
Funny I play football with a guy from Cameroon and yesterday after out match (Villa-esque performance) I was talking about what a depressing season it was. He said he liked Villa but couldn't believe we bought a rubbish player like Makoun!
All of the 'young' players (as in youth team graduates who aren't first teamers) should stay in my opinion. In fact I'm surprised anyone is willing to write them off and sell them - give them a chance to prove themselves under a new manager.
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I think Makoun would be excellent alongside the right player, he needs someone with some serious legs alongside, like an Ian Taylor at his best or better still a Viera or Toure type. He's skillfull and creative but looked overwhelmed with the partners he had in the middle at the end of last season. I was disappointed he went, but did he settle in England?
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GOALKEEPERS
Shay Given - In
Brad Guzan - Out - cheaper wages on a reserve than 25k
DEFENDERS
Alan Hutton - Out
Stephen Warnock - Out
Richard Dunne - In
James Collins - Out
Ciaran Clark - In
Carlos Cuellar - Out
Enda Stevens - In
Eric Lichaj - In
Nathan Baker - In
Derrick Williams - Untested yet
MIDFIELDERS
Stephen Ireland - In
Jermaine Jenas - Out
Charles N'zogbia - In
Marc Albrighton - In (one more season to see if he can up his game)
Fabian Delph - In
Stiliyan Petrov -
Barry Bannan - In
Chris Herd - In
Daniel Johnson - In
Gary Gardner - In
FORWARDS
Darren Bent - In
Gabriel Agbonlahor - In
Nathan Delfouneso - Out (not going to get the chances now Weimann has pushed on)
Emile Heskey - Out
Andreas Weimann - In
Graham Burke - Not yet had the chance to see what he can do.
That should free up some money for replacements to strengthen the gaps left.
I would keep Dunne for 1 more season, and have him as captain. Collins after his latest night club piss up should be bombed out, Hutton, Warnock, not good enough, need young, dynamic full backs, although Lichaz would be my first choice next season and give him his shot.
Coming in we need a couple of central midfield players, a centre half, a couple of full backs, and an exciting pacey winger.
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The problem we have is that there are problems all over the pitch. We has kids coming through in all positions but none of them has made his position their own. So we could easily spend money and waste it on a player no better than what we have coming through (eg a centre back or back up striker.
But I'd make it the number one priority to get a dominant midfielder in. Perhaps diame
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Unless we got 3m or so back for Hutton I'd keep him. He honestly can't be that bad. When Spurs first made the CL he had a great spell at right back and was always good coming forward. That's why his defensive naivety wasn't a surprise but how crap he was with the ball coming forward was.
Offers will be listened to for Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Makoun but getting them out the door will be tricky. As others have said, Bannan, Albrighton and the Fonz have missed the boat at Villa Park I reckon. Delph probably too.
A pacy right sided centre back to partner Clark next season is a priority. Williams at Swansea perhaps. Collins is a pretty solid EPL defender but he has burned his bridges at the club now and we need to bring in players who are able to play a bit. Dunne isn't likely to improve and could well be one we look to move on too.
Gabby and Ireland are obviously talented players but depending on who the new manager is both of them might be used to trade for others. You can't really trust Ireland as he might go AWOL again. Gabby has had 2 seasons of utter crap and won't work with Bent.
Holman will be a good squad player to have but apart from that we need a load of new players just to replace those who have left and those we are looking to move on.
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Offers will be listened to for Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Makoun but getting them out the door will be tricky. As others have said, Bannan, Albrighton and the Fonz have missed the boat at Villa Park I reckon. Delph probably too.
You don't think it's likely that the new manager might want to have a say in any of this?
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The new manager decides who goes, that's a given (sorry)(and definitely not him) but I'd like to keep Makoun. Please, if at all possible and if he fits the new squad's playing purpose and pattern but he's just so good.
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Offers will be listened to for Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Makoun but getting them out the door will be tricky. As others have said, Bannan, Albrighton and the Fonz have missed the boat at Villa Park I reckon. Delph probably too.
You don't think it's likely that the new manager might want to have a say in any of this?
I think if we get a decent manager he will heed my advice ;D
Warnock is plainly not good enough. Dunne and Collins are solid defenders but would fit in better at somewhere like Stoke. The others arent good enough either. We need a complete transformation of the playing staff at Villa Park. No matter if Jose Mourinho is enticed from Madrid, there will still be a directive to ship out some of the high earners.
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Dunne, Collins & Warnock would be my priorities to ship out if we can find takers and while I appreciate the argument he hasn't had enough time, I think we could afford to conceed on Delfouneso too. On top of the players presumably leaving on frees - Guzan, Cuellar & Heskey - plus losing Petrov for the immediate term, I wouldn't be in a rush to ship any more out - we need to start building the squad up with more quality and experience.
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The new manager decides who goes, that's a given (sorry)(and definitely not him) but I'd like to keep Makoun. Please, if at all possible and if he fits the new squad's playing purpose and pattern but he's just so good.
You're right. I don't care if he can't tackle, I want to see him play football.
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At least Jenas wont be coming back .
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You know the only reason I was looking forward to this season was seeing how good the youth actually were. Underwhelming might be the best word to describe.
Whats happened to the Fonz? jesus another luke moore, do these kids not learn?
Bannan? stop trying those chip through balls every damn time it only works on PES. Also what position does he want to play? CM? your having a laugh right?
Delph? Unlucky with injuries, shame. Just one of those I guess. But has been asked to play different role. Seems to been converted to different player to the 1 he wants or excels at being.
Gardner? a Stevie G type player? really? cant see it at moment. Hes supposed to be THE ONE. Isnt he?
Clark? Really like him but needs to decide is he a CD or DM as he does have good technique but do you really trust him playing as a main CB?
Baker? done ok-ish but again would you have him as a main CB? or more importantly who would you rather? Him or Clark? because thats how it seems its gonna be for me.
Only ones that have done better than expected (for me anyway) are Lichaj (shows the spirit we need and would pick him over Hutton as starting RB), Herd (done well under circumstances but wouldnt be more than a sub) and Weimann (would love to see him and Bent Up top next year, could be a good foil).
For a lot of these 'youth' players its last chance saloon for me and someone on the staff has to have the balls to tell them that. Stop fucking around, work hard to win the shirt or you'll be playing lower league football for the rest of your days.
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Dunne and Warnock would be the first ones I'd ship out on top of the released. Both are poor players and disruptive influences. Collins whilst guilty of being a disruptive influence has been pretty decent this season and if we try to build a whole new defence we might see players struggle to settle in. Collins can be a backup to a new partnership. With Hutton I think there is a better player than we have seen in there and with a proper manager we might see it. He is in the question mark camp for me along with Makoun, Delph, N'Zogbia and a few others who I think should get until January to prove themselves before we ship them out.
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At least Jenas wont be coming back .
I thought he was good when he came on v Norwich (?). Was unlucky he was injured all season, he could have had the drive from the middle we've lacked.
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Whoever the new manager is I think we will see a very different and vibrant Villa team next season, the new man will have a nearly clear canvas to start with so can choose to fill those gaps with his own men, we need at least 7 new players I reckon. Him up at Sunderland will probably be dusting off his chequebook as we speak. i am sure he would want Gabby and Dunne.
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Funny I play football with a guy from Cameroon and yesterday after out match (Villa-esque performance) I was talking about what a depressing season it was. He said he liked Villa but couldn't believe we bought a rubbish player like Makoun!
All of the 'young' players (as in youth team graduates who aren't first teamers) should stay in my opinion. In fact I'm surprised anyone is willing to write them off and sell them - give them a chance to prove themselves under a new manager.
Funny I work with guys from Kenya and Zimbabwe who are big footie fans and they couldn't believe we'd signed such a good player so cheaply.
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I can't see us getting much for makoun so I'd be in favour o giving him a chance. Any idea how he did on loan? I think he cost Lyon £13m but that he wasn't that popular with fans there.
Agree with the post above about the kids. I'm really not sure who will come through though I have highest hopes for Clark from what I've seen. Herd and lichaj Si possibly the best of all but I'm not convinced either is a top flight player. Though occasionally herd does surprise me.
Gardner? Well it's too early to judge. He's still better than his bro was at the same age and he's done ok. But he doesn't look to be quite the phenomenon that I was led to believe. He seems slow for a start, which is a problem for a centre midfielder.
Not ready to quite give up on bannan or delph yet. I've seen enough from both to think they're worth persisting with. It could suit both players, plus Ireland, of we played a proper 433 a la Swansea next year (not that all 3 would play at the same time).
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1 Given - Keep
22 Guzan - Gone
33 Marshall - Sell
Defenders
2 Hutton - Sell (not sure where he'd go)
3 Warnock - Sell. He's looked better in the middle but I think he needs to go. Been poor for too long.
5 Dunne - Keep. He's the best of our defenders.
6 Collins - Sell. Had a few good games when Dunne was out, but he's part of the reason we're shit from corners.
21 Clark - Keep. Start at Centre Back.
24 Cuellar - Gone. Overrated.
29 Stevens - Keep. Backup.
30 Lichaj - Keep. Backup.
32 Baker - Keep. Backup.
Midfielders
7 Ireland - Keep. With a more positive manager I think he'll be a star player.
8 Jenas - Gone.
17 Makoun - Keep. Give him another shot.
16 Delph - Keep. Backup centre midfielder. Nothing more.
10 N'Zogbia - Keep. With a full preseason and a better manager he'll be a better player. Needs to work harder.
12 Albrighton - Keep. Backup winger. Never got the form back from the start of 10/11. One trick pony, needs to work on his game.
19 Petrov - Not sure what to say here really.
25 Bannan - Sell. Don't rate him. Tries to be too fancy without even looking half the time.
31 Herd - Keep. Hard working utility man.
38 Gardner- Keep. One for the future. Could have a big role to play next season
Forwards
9 Bent - Keep. Let's create chances and he'll put them away (most of the time)
11 Agbonlahor - Sell. Fed up of him.
14 Delfouneso - Sell. Not going to make it.
18 Heskey - Gone
26 Weimann - Keep. Should be in the side ahead of Gabby.
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I wouldn't sell anyone, we are probably losing Heskey, Cuellar, Petrov, Jenas, Guzan and Marshall for various reasons anyway and we hardly had an enormous squad anyway. So we need a minimum 5/6 new players in, if we sell others then we would need bigger numbers coming in which could be difficult.
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I am only Fussed on keeping:
Guzan & Given
Baker, Clarke, Lichaj
Ireland, Bannan, Irelan, Albrighton, Makoun, NZogbia, Herd, Gardner, Carrruthers
Wiemann, Bent
Ones you cant comment on (so I guess Keep):
Edna Stevens, Derrick Williams, Daniel Johnson, Graham Burke, Andy Marshall
So for me guess that means sell / let leave
Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Cuellar
Jenas, Delph, (Petrov)
Gabby, Delfounso, Heskey
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jenas isnt ours to sell but we could try
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jenas isnt ours to sell but we could try
hence the "/ let leave"
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I think the question in the thread title should only be asked after two others are answered:-
1. Who will be our new manager?
2. How much money will he have to spend?
Presuming it's Lambert, my personal choice and pretty high in the betting, then here's how I see it:-
With little or no money
He needs to try and get more out of the current squad, which is a similar mandate to The Scottish Manager.
Firstly, I think we should try and get Guzan to stay, but if not then we just look for a free reserve keeper.
Defensively, Hutton stays and fights with Lichaj for RB. One of Dunne & Collins stays, making 4 CBs with Clark, Baker and a new signing. Warnock goes if a decent offer comes in, when we then buy a new LB, but if not he stays. Stevens is LB cover in either scenario.
In midfield we bring Makoun back and try him in the holding role and revert to Herd if it isn't working. Ireland plays alongside one of them, with Gardner as his cover/competition. We sell Gabby and use the funds to buy a new winger. The offensive midfield option are then this new winger, N'Zogbia, Holman, Super Marc and Bannan, with the likes of Carruthers also pushing.
Bent plays as the striker, with Weimann in reserve.
So, it's a new LB, CB and winger, which is to be funded by the sales of Warnock, Collins or Dunne, Gabby, Delph and Delfouneso.
Given
Hutton/Lichaj
New CB
Clark
New LB
Makoun
Ireland
New Winger
Holman
N'Zogbia
Bent
Bench from Guzan or new reserve keeper, one of Collins or Dunne, Baker, whichever of Hutton/Lichaj aren't playing, Stevens, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan, Carruthers and Weimann.
With a decent bit of money
A real overhaul!
Pretty much same for the keepers, but don't be afraid to spend a few million on an up and coming reserve keeper from the lower leagues.
Get rid of Hutton, Warnock, Collins and Dunne. Three of them only have a year left, so if no takers let them rot in the reserves. Whole new defence, with Lichaj, Clark (although would like him to start fairly often), Baker and Stevens as cover.
In midfield move on Makoun and Delph, with a new DCM coming in to sadly replace Petrov. Still buy a new winger, but also look for a new No 10 type player - that should be the glamour signing of the summer and mean to play more of a 4-4-1-1.
Bent as striker again, but with Gabby and Weimann in reserve and try 4-4-2 at times to keep them involved.
Given (new reserve GK)
New RB (Lichaj)
New CB (Baker)
Clark (new reserve CB)
New LB (Stevens)
New Winger (Marc)
Ireland (Gardner)
New DCM (Herd)
N'Zogbia (Bannan/Carruthers)
New No 10 (Holman)
Bent (Gabby & Weimann)
Secret option three
Even if we have a chunck of cash to spend, the new manager (Lambert!!) may want to try out some players anyway before spending. So we'd still buy a few and still give a chance to the likes of Lichaj and Makoun, with the balance of the funds held back to January or next summer to see what strenthening is needed then?
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Sorry id still keep warnock...new manager, bit of confidence, he'll be back to his best.
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Sorry id still keep warnock...new manager, bit of confidence, he'll be back to his best.
The problem with the likes of Warnock are the wages they are on. I'd maybe consider keeping him if he was on low wages, but he is reported to be on around £50,000 a week. I'm sorry, but surely we could find a better player for less than that. The same goes for Dunne and Ireland.
I would personally task MacDonald and Cowans with making the necessary changes now, so the new manager has a clean slate to work with. If not, we will have the same as last summer when players who should have been moved on were kept at the club so the new manager could have a look at them and they underperformed again.
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I am only Fussed on keeping:
Guzan & Given
Baker, Clarke, Lichaj
Ireland, Bannan, Irelan, Albrighton, Makoun, NZogbia, Herd, Gardner, Carrruthers
Wiemann, Bent
Ones you cant comment on (so I guess Keep):
Edna Stevens, Derrick Williams, Daniel Johnson, Graham Burke, Andy Marshall
So for me guess that means sell / let leave
Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Collins, Cuellar
Jenas, Delph, (Petrov)
Gabby, Delfounso, Heskey
Agreed apart from Gabby and Delph - but they both need a rocket. Time for Delph to stand up and for Gabby to get back to where he once was.
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I didnt think delph was all that when people where going mad about him earlier this season... just isnt showing as much potential as our kids and he i a lot older now, was a gamble... just didnt work out!
Gabby is a top super sub but these reports of sunderland and 10 million seem to goo to turn down! although mark my words... he will score against us!
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Everyone seems very keen to get rid of a large chunk of our very thin squad. After the season we've just had, who exactly are we going to attract to replace all these?
Obviously we will have a new manager, so that will raise our chance of signing decent players from nil to ok, but there's still the issue of we've run out of money, and I think the confidence that a new manager will bring will rejuvenate a lot of the underperfomers. Easing the wage bill will be handy too, but again only if a decent offer comes in.
Also to those who are having a go at young players, remember how hard this season has been, how much pressure they've been under, how negatively they've been told to play, and how they've only had one full season. Some on here are being incredibly harsh. Imagine you're 19 or 20, trying to get your career underway in difficult circumsatnces and having 30,000 people have a go at you
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I am not fussed on seeing a large part of our squad wearing a villa shirt again... I dont think mcleish is wholly responsible for this, the attitudes of some of our senior players stink!
For me I think we need to hold onto the core to build a future around, the rest, if an offer comes in thats sensible cash in!
Would rather "swap" them out for hungrier - cheaper waged - players!
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Getting rid of Hutton is a worry, I'd take a financial hit on this
Who is out of contract this summer?
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I think the confidence that a new manager will bring will rejuvenate a lot of the underperfomers.
Also to those who are having a go at young players, remember how hard this season has been, how much pressure they've been under, how negatively they've been told to play, and how they've only had one full season.
Mike, we said exactly the same about the underperformers last summer and they have been even worse this season. The fact that the majority of them are the top earners at the club, means they have to be moved on if we are going to move forward.
I think many Villa fans are going to have to face the fact that many of "the kids" just aren't going to make it at the club. Yes, one or two will go on to become regulars at Villa Park, but the majority won't be good enough to take us where we want to be. The sooner everyone realises this fact (including the heirarchy of the club) the better shape we will be in.
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Warnock is the main one for me, get whatever we can for him. Those saying he'll be rejuvenated, it will only be for a while then he'll be back to his old self. The only consideration for keeping him is for holding midfield.
I'd like to build the defence around Clark and Baker, keeping Collins to aid their development.
I'd keep Gabby, he'll get his mojo back, then build the attack around Bent.
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As players like Collins, Dunne and Warnock are in their final year of their contracts, I would probably offload them to 1) get them off the wage bill 2) use the funds to reinvest elsewhere. Although saying that, I do feel that Warnock has been better playing in midfield than left back. He seemed to have more confidence and gave some solid performances.
Id also consider getting rid of gabby as he is not going to get any better and I think a move away will do him some good.
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Taken from: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/spieler/vertragsende/basics.html
Out of Contract end of this year:
Heskey - Marshall (didnt realise he was 37 should go) - Cuellar - Guzan
only 1 season left:
Warnock - Dunne - Collins - Lichaj
2 season left
Bent - Hutton - Gabby - Delph - Edna Stevens
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I think the confidence that a new manager will bring will rejuvenate a lot of the underperfomers.
Also to those who are having a go at young players, remember how hard this season has been, how much pressure they've been under, how negatively they've been told to play, and how they've only had one full season.
Mike, we said exactly the same about the underperformers last summer and they have been even worse this season. The fact that the majority of them are the top earners at the club, means they have to be moved on if we are going to move forward.
I think many Villa fans are going to have to face the fact that many of "the kids" just aren't going to make it at the club. Yes, one or two will go on to become regulars at Villa Park, but the majority won't be good enough to take us where we want to be. The sooner everyone realises this fact (including the heirarchy of the club) the better shape we will be in.
I agree with all of that, I just think we need to take into account just how shit this season has been and the effect that has on the players. It's been awful watching it, so it can't have been fun playing in it. Yes, we need to reduce the wage bill, and we already have with Carlos and Heskey (that's got to be £80-90k a week gone), I'm sure there will be more to follow, I just think a fire sale is the wrong approach when they are players that need replacing. Let's see who our manager is, and what clout that gives us in the transfer market first. If the board continues in it's current vein of efficiancy, that will be quite soon.
As for the kids, I'm sure a few will fall by the wayside, but they deserve another year with a progressive manager to really see what they can do
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Taken from: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/spieler/vertragsende/basics.html
Out of Contract end of this year:
Heskey - Marshall (didnt realise he was 37 should go) - Cuellar - Guzan
only 1 season left:
Warnock - Dunne - Collins - Lichaj
2 season left
Bent - Hutton - Gabby - Delph - Edna Stevens
All the more reason to get rid of at least 2/3 of Warnock, Dunne & Collins. Get them of our wage bill and get some money for them while we can. How long are we stuck with Ireland for then?
PS I would keep Gabby but only as a supersub. If he's Villa through and through like he says he is then he wont mind taking a seat on the bench until he finds some consistent form.
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I would like to think we would have at least 2 players for every position (3 in the case of GK etc)
But with what we have i would like to see our squad as such
GK x 2
Given (although some stunning saves he also is culpable for some awful in the box defending)
Seigrist (sp) time for him to step up as no 2
RB x 2
Lihaj - 1st choice
Herd
LB x 2
New recruit
Stevens
CB's x 4
Baker
Clarke
Dunne
New recruit
LM x 2
N'Zogbia
A.Nother
RM x 2
Albrighton
A.Nother
CM's x 4
Ireland
Makoun
Gardener
A.Nother - a real "get stuck in" type
Strikers x 2
Bent
Weinmann
Even through the carnage of Eck and the losing of some experienced players - that squad is still better than the position they ended up in
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Although these things are best left until the new manager gets here, we should be offering Lichaj a new contract.
And talks need to be opened with Bent sometime during next season.
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Why do people keep mentioning Herd as a right back? He's a midfielder that has just filled in there a couple of times!
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If I were Bent I'd ride out this season to see how much we improve before commit to anything further.
Oh and doesnt Nzobia like drifting in from the RW as apposed to everyone assuming he's a LW (think Martinez may have mentioned it)? We should be looking for LW as we clearly dont have anyone who can fill that role.
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Why do people keep mentioning Herd as a right back? He's a midfielder that has just filled in there a couple of times!
And was MOTM in at least one of those games at RB
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I think we should sell most of players but keep home grown/ young players, Ireland, Bent and Given and then build a new team. But it depend on who is the new manager and his budget and ability to find quality unknowns cheap. I think we need a good shake up.
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One of Collins and Dunne, Warnock, Hutton
All the younger players I would give another chance (with the possible exception of the Fonz as he does not seem to be progressing).
Barry Bannan I would like to see given another chance because even in Mcleish's team he linked up well at times with Ireland last season and could come on well under the guidance of a more astute manager.
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Why do people keep mentioning Herd as a right back? He's a midfielder that has just filled in there a couple of times!
And was MOTM in at least one of those games at RB
And Stephen Ireland was our player of the season.
Connection? Not much competition!!
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Didn't Bent sign a 5 year deal? Surely he has 3 left?
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I would like to think we would have at least 2 players for every position (3 in the case of GK etc)
But with what we have i would like to see our squad as such
GK x 2
Given (although some stunning saves he also is culpable for some awful in the box defending)
Seigrist (sp) time for him to step up as no 2
RB x 2
Lihaj - 1st choice
Herd
LB x 2
New recruit
Stevens
CB's x 4
Baker
Clarke
Dunne
New recruit
LM x 2
N'Zogbia
A.Nother
RM x 2
Albrighton
A.Nother
CM's x 4
Ireland
Makoun
Gardener
A.Nother - a real "get stuck in" type
Strikers x 2
Bent
Weinmann
Even through the carnage of Eck and the losing of some experienced players - that squad is still better than the position they ended up in
Would agree with most of that assessment. Personally I am not sold on Lichaj and would prefer to see us bring in more attacking full backs. I would keep Collins over Dunne and maybe keep Gabby as well. Apart from that I think the rest is spot on (though you have missed out Holman - I presume he is still coming), though we may need two central midfielders.
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This is a weird topic. Lerner and Faulkner will look to get rid of anyone on a high salary to clear the books. They'll then provide a few million only to a new manager with the remit to bring in players on low value contracts, or one player on a high value contract.
McLeish was not the only problem at our club. We're back to where we were under Ellis. No money, but only this time ownership that doesn't understand soccer.
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For me
Go
Hutton, Nzog, Collins. Dunne Warnock
Stay
Bent Herd Lichaj Gardener Baker Ireland Bannan Weiman Carruthers Given Clarke Guzan Albrighton Delfonso
I can only see those in bold as regulars
Not sure
Gabby
That squad looks very thin
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GARDNER!
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Without Dunne any squad would be sylphlike.*
I'd quite like to keep Charlie N'Zog. I've kept faith with him. A new manager might get his confidence back.
And get Makoun back!
*Actually just realised that there's a slight element here of pot, kettle!
But then again,I don't play for the Villa!
Felt like invading the pitch last time at VP, though - and not in a good way!
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Already covered here http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=47051.0 so merging threads.
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Already covered here http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=47051.0 so merging threads.
Sorry and Thanks
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Thought this might be worth a bump, given we now know who the new manager is?
You'd like to think everyone starts with a clean slate, but I'd say those that have underperformed last season and/or are in danger are as follows:-
Warnock
Hutton
Dunne
Collins
N'Zogbia
Gabby
Makoun
Delph
Lambert strikes me as a strict disciplinarian, so I expect him to chop one or two to show the rest of the squad who's boss. As such, I think Dunne will go, but we'd be too in-experienced at CB if both went, so Collins to stay. With Hutton and Warnock it will be based on what they show in training, but doubt both will be kept on fairly high wages with Lichaj emerging. I think he'll be asked to get the best out of N'Zogbia as we can't afford to write off a £10m player after one season. Gabby will only go if a big offer comes in. Makoun is the biggest question mark as it depends on how Bertie wants to play as to whether we take what we can or give him another go. For some reason I have a feeling Delph will come good undre the new manager.
I think the rest of our homegrown kids will all stay, with the possible exception of Delfouneso, should the right offer come in.
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New manager new team/squad. I am not too concerned who goes it is who we bring in that matters.
Lets see if Mr Lerner still believes in a "Bright Future."
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Would agree with keeping Collins if Dunne and Warnock go. Rumours suggest the three of them together caused a lot of unrest for Houllier and TSM. In isolation he may settle down and grow up a bit.
Maybe controversially, I'd also shift Ireland on while his stock is relatively high. It would save a shit load on wages that could be better used elsewhere and I have concerns on how he'll react with Lambert who strikes me as someone who will be a tad more demanding than his predecessor.
If we had the right offer for Gabby he can go. Would love to replace Hutton but who would be daft enough to take him.
Replacements if its not too off topic. Would like to see Robbie Keane come back on a 3 year deal, I feel he can do what Ireland does while actually looking bothered. The Croatian guy Petric (not Olic who we were linked with last year) is available on a free, he'd be my Heskey replacement. One other forward , maybe Rhodes or Ricky Lambert? Lichaj is good enough at right back already. Quite like Jonas Olsson from the baggies at centre back, or Simon Kjaer who was supposedly the next big thing to come out of Denmark but has faltered a little in Italy.
Still struggling for that marauding midfielder though, isn't Macdonald Mariga available from Inter?
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I don't think Dunne and Warnock were out after the end of season party where Collins, Delph and Herd got themselves into trouble. Lambert certainly won't tolerate that sort of thing. I know at Norwich Lambert had spies everywhere. Whenever one of his players was out, he knew about it.
I see Ireland taking on the Hoolahan role. In terms of selling players because of their wages, it could be Makoun that goes. Lambert might think he can get someone similar in without the inflated wages.
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Collins, Warnock, Hutton & unforunately Delfouneso would probably be on my list to go in the first instance. As we've already lost three and had a weak squad to begin with I'd not be in a rush to lose any more for now though.
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Going - Collins, Warnock, Delfounseo & Makoun.
With the 'loss' of Heskey & Carlos, plus the loss of Petrov means we need a good 6-7 players coming in.
In short the spine of the team needs replacing.
Two central defenders, a commanding first choice to replace Collins
A first choice leftback.
Two first choice central midfield, one holding
A right side midfield to put Albrighton back as cover
A target man.
These changes would address most of our problem areas last season, of course if we sell Gabby or Bent to raise funds they will need to be replaced.
Listening to Paul Faulkner at the press conference he spoke about working smartly in the market. I think this infers that we won't be seeing any major, big money signings.
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GOALKEEPERS
Shay Given - In
Brad Guzan - Gone
DEFENDERS
Alan Hutton - Out - Not good enough. Reckless in the tackle. Offers not a lot. Improved last season, but not enough to want to keep. We'll struggle to find a club willing to buy him.
Stephen Warnock - Out - Poor, no confidence. Played better in midfield at times last season. Would take £2mil.
Richard Dunne - Out - Past his best. Better without Collins. Can't keep both of them at the club.
James Collins - Out - Past his best. Better without Dunne. Can't keep both of them at the club.
Ciaran Clark - In. Needs to have a good run at Centre Back. Could be a massive star. I'm sure he's on Fergie's radar....
Carlos Cuellar - Gone
Enda Stevens - Not sure - Loan out?
Eric Lichaj - Out - Works hard and can be solid in the tackle. Not going to be a Prem star. Would take a couple of million, or keep him as a backup.
Nathan Baker - In - Looks decent. Needs more experience. Decent and cheap option to keep.
Derrick Williams - Not sure - Loan out?
MIDFIELDERS
Stephen Ireland - In - Needs to play a more attacking role. Huge wages and suspect temprement means we'd struggle to sell. Let's try and get him back to his best, he'd be a real asset then.
Jermaine Jenas - Gone.
Charles N'zogbia - In - Was used wrong by the wrong manager. Needs telling he's a world beater, and playing on the proper wing, then he might be the player he can be. Give him at least another season.
Marc Albrighton - Out - Time for a change.
Fabian Delph - Out - Too many injuries.
Stiliyan Petrov - In - Captain.
Barry Bannan - In - Totally unconvinced by Bannan. Needs to work harder and try and keep the ball. Too many failed Hollywood balls. 1 more season.
Chris Herd - In - Did well last season, will be a useful squadl player.
Daniel Johnson - In - Loan him out.
Gary Gardner - In - Get him in the team.
FORWARDS
Darren Bent - In
Gabriel Agbonlahor - Out - Past his best. Looked disinterested too often last season, and the one before.
Nathan Delfouneso - Out (not going to get the chances now Weimann has pushed on) - Agree
Emile Heskey - Gone
Andreas Weimann - In - Lively little goal machine.
Graham Burke - Loan him out.
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Keep Makoun too.
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Keep Makoun too.
Too right
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Taken from: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/spieler/vertragsende/basics.html
Out of Contract end of this year:
Heskey - Marshall (didnt realise he was 37 should go) - Cuellar - Guzan
only 1 season left:
Warnock - Dunne - Collins - Lichaj
2 season left
Bent - Hutton - Gabby - Delph - Edna Stevens
Didn't bent sign a 5 year deal when he joined!?
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GOALKEEPERS
Shay Given - In
Brad Guzan - Gone
DEFENDERS
Alan Hutton - Out - Not good enough. Reckless in the tackle. Offers not a lot. Improved last season, but not enough to want to keep. We'll struggle to find a club willing to buy him.
Stephen Warnock - Out - Poor, no confidence. Played better in midfield at times last season. Would take £2mil.
Richard Dunne - Out - Past his best. Better without Collins. Can't keep both of them at the club.
James Collins - Out - Past his best. Better without Dunne. Can't keep both of them at the club.
Ciaran Clark - In. Needs to have a good run at Centre Back. Could be a massive star. I'm sure he's on Fergie's radar....
Carlos Cuellar - Gone
Enda Stevens - Not sure - Loan out?
Eric Lichaj - Out - Works hard and can be solid in the tackle. Not going to be a Prem star. Would take a couple of million, or keep him as a backup.
Nathan Baker - In - Looks decent. Needs more experience. Decent and cheap option to keep.
Derrick Williams - Not sure - Loan out?
MIDFIELDERS
Stephen Ireland - In - Needs to play a more attacking role. Huge wages and suspect temprement means we'd struggle to sell. Let's try and get him back to his best, he'd be a real asset then.
Jermaine Jenas - Gone.
Charles N'zogbia - In - Was used wrong by the wrong manager. Needs telling he's a world beater, and playing on the proper wing, then he might be the player he can be. Give him at least another season.
Marc Albrighton - Out - Time for a change.
Fabian Delph - Out - Too many injuries.
Stiliyan Petrov - In - Captain.
Barry Bannan - In - Totally unconvinced by Bannan. Needs to work harder and try and keep the ball. Too many failed Hollywood balls. 1 more season.
Chris Herd - In - Did well last season, will be a useful squadl player.
Daniel Johnson - In - Loan him out.
Gary Gardner - In - Get him in the team.
FORWARDS
Darren Bent - In
Gabriel Agbonlahor - Out - Past his best. Looked disinterested too often last season, and the one before.
Nathan Delfouneso - Out (not going to get the chances now Weimann has pushed on) - Agree
Emile Heskey - Gone
Andreas Weimann - In - Lively little goal machine.
Graham Burke - Loan him out.
I agree with everything except Lichaj and Albrighton. I would give Marc until Christmas to get his act together. He was all over the place last season and the epitome of inconsistency. Although, he did battle some nagging injuries at the end of the season. If he learns to steer a decent ball into the box and can start beating his man off the dribble again than he can stay. If its just more of the same.. bye Marc.
I think Lichaj is a pretty good player. He got paired up with some pretty brutal wingers in the latter stages of the McLeish era. I remember him handling Valencia, and making some impressive tackles in the last few games. He took an absolute pounding back there, we were on our back foot all season, and came out looking pretty decent. He's got a long throw which is going to become valuable with Holt coming in, and he's a very athletic kid. He gets another year in the squad for me.
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Warnock should go without a doubt. Complete liability
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Hutton, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Delph, Bannan, Albrighton, Delfouenso, Agbonlahor.
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Hutton, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Delph, Bannan, Albrighton, Delfouenso, Agbonlahor.
Agree with most of those, but you have to ask how much cash they would actually bring in. A few quid for the kids, but not much at all for Hutton, Dunne or Warnock I'd guess.
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Main thing is they'll be off the wage bill
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Would definitely sell if possible - Hutton, Warnock, Collins, and Bannan.
Hutton isn't very good, the other three are troublemakers and also not very good.
Would definitely keep - Bent, Herd, Lichaj, Clarke, Weiman, Gardner and Ireland
If any of the rest went I wouldn't be bothered either way. Given is good but injured a lot, ageing and could be easily replaced on a free. N'Zogbia hasn't sparkled but could come good based on known good form in the past, ditto Albrighton, ditto Delfouneso, ditto Makoun. Baker is OK back up. Stevens is an unknown quantity. etc etc There are only so many players we can shed though so better to keep most of them.
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Warnock, Collins, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Delfouneso
I'd keep Dunne. I think he'll play well for Lambert. He'd better shed some timber this summer though and stop the boozing.
Warnock, Collins, Hutton are all shit. Delfouneso won't cut it. I also think Bannan and Delph probably aren't good enough but under an attack minded manager, I'd like to see how they do. Bannan has potential to do for us what Hoolahan did for Norwich.
N'Zog I'd sell because he's unreliable and also one of the few players we have who'd get a half decent fee. I'd still expect us to get little more than half what we paid though. 5 mill probably.
Everyone else should get a shot.
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Everyone else should get shot.
That's harsh.
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Lambert has got a difficult job this summer. He's not likely to be given silly money to spend, and needs time to assess his squad. My hope is that he can get the likes of Bannan and Albrighton playing to their full potential. The trouble is we have lots of players who SHOULD be good players, ie Albrighton, Ireland, Dunne, Warnock, Bannan, Agbonlahor who for a variety of reasons, just haven't performed consistently (to differing extents) over the last two seasons. Does he persevere with them, or get shut and completely rebuild?
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Ireland was one of our best players last season (I know that doesn't say much). I wouldn't want to off load him too soon. N'Zogbia, it was his first season with us. We know he can be a great player so again I wouldn't want to get shot of him quite so soon. Both of these players I'm actually looking forward to watching next season. They can do great things. We should have an exciting attacking options especially now we have a manager who will play attacking football.
Warnock, hutton and Collins for me should be shown the door.
Albrighton and Delph have this season to prove themselves. Albrighton deserves another season with someone like Lambert guiding him.
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Of the senior players, I'd only be slightly miffed if Ireland or Bent went. Gabby too but largely for sentimental reasons.
Slightly miffed mind you, certainly not distraught.
Of the youngsters already on the fringe, they should all get a season. I think at least 2 of them will emerge this season into regular first teamers with my (virtual) money being on Gardner and Clark, possibly Herd. Carruthers has looked good in his brief appearances but will he be an Ashley Young who made solid and sustained progress with every season or a Marc Albrighton who was either quickly worked out by opposing fullbacks or is a confidence player - either way his progress has been in fits and starts?
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I think Rissbert makes a key point above, which is that we won't have silly money to spend. It's OK to say get rid of a load of them, but without a huge squad as it is they'll then need replacing, which we probably can't afford to do.
That's why I'm an advocate of bringing less players in than some think we need and 'making do' for another season and then look at it again in 2013. Hutton gets a reprieve, Bannan & Super Marc and make or break season and we prioritise the spending on a CB, LB and DCM.
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I would not ship out any of the youngsters.
I think the squad can still lose 3 or 4 players and they would be Hutton, NZogbia Dunne and Warnock.
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My mate has just called me from Elmdon Airport to tell me he is boarding the same plane as the Agbonlahor Family and he looks as miserable as sin!!
Is he gutted not to be at the Euros?
Unimpressed with PL?
or
Just dreading a week or two with the kids?
Anyway, he would be top of my list to ship out, mainly due to his expected value.
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My mate has just called me from Elmdon Airport to tell me he is boarding the same plane as the Agbonlahor Family and he looks as miserable as sin!!
Is he gutted not to be at the Euros?
Unimpressed with PL?
or
Just dreading a week or two with the kids?
Anyway, he would be top of my list to ship out, mainly due to his expected value.
Probably getting used to the fact he's returned to the 1970s. "Elmdon Airport" indeed ;)
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He always looks fucking miserable.
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Lamberts told Hutton to get a new Club!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-tell-alan-hutton-885259
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No proof he's actually said that but if he has fair play
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Scapegoat seems to suggest an element of unfairness. Hutton was unspeakably shite last season.
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It's not difficult to believe that Hutton's agent has tipped off the paper to make it public knowledge and get his client a new club. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Naughton was being lined up as replacement either.
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Sell Bannan, Fonz, Hutton, Dunne, Warnock, Delph and Doug Ellis. Rebuild the defence.
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Hutton looked good when I saw him play for Rangers ages ago, but all he seems to be good for now is repeatedly injuring people and passing the ball to the other team. We could potentially see an entire new defence next season considering that Dunne, Collins and Warnock are all big pants as well.
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No way would I sell Lichaj, thought he did really well played out of position.
Hutton first to be shown the door,followed by Dunne and Collins.That was the problem for the last 2 seasons -central defence.
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Hutton has two problems:
1: he is utter sh*te
2: he is TSM's man
He won't be here for the start of next season.
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Please let it be so. Never a prem standard player.
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Please let it be so. Never a prem standard player.
This
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Taking wages into account, Dunne and Warnock would be the main two I'd be looking to move on this summer along with the Fonz. I'd keep Collins and maybe even give Hutton another chance, although it looks like he could be going. Ireland is a tricky one, as I don't think he can really play anywhere else but in the hole and that makes him an expensive luxury, especially if Lambert is going to play a 4-4-2. As for the rest, I think we should be giving them the opportunity to prove themselves unless a decent offer is made for any of them.
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Taking wages into account, Dunne and Warnock would be the main two I'd be looking to move on this summer along with the Fonz. I'd keep Collins and maybe even give Hutton another chance, although it looks like he could be going. Ireland is a tricky one, as I don't think he can really play anywhere else but in the hole and that makes him an expensive luxury, especially if Lambert is going to play a 4-4-2. As for the rest, I think we should be giving them the opportunity to prove themselves unless a decent offer is made for any of them.
The main thing is that nobody should be under any illusions that we start with a clean slate and that they will all have another year to free load off the club.
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When we signed Dunne he looked good and excuse the pun but solid. I thought he might become a bit of a cult figure for us like he did with City. I don't know what has happened but his form is shot. He might have the odd good game but he makes so many mistakes. His form for us has carried into the Euros which is not a great advert to sell, but I'm sure we could still sell him on for a few million to some mug out there.
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Let's sell him to Besiktas then ;)
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Scapegoat seems to suggest an element of unfairness. Hutton was unspeakably shite last season.
I think you're still being too nice about him.
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I don't get to as many games as most on here, about 10 last season. But from what I saw Hutton wasn't as bad as some people make out. He was shocking early on, but actually had a decent spell after Christmas - nothing mindblowing but solid mid-table full back type level.
I'd be happy if he was replaced with that Spurs lad though.
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I don't get to as many games as most on here, about 10 last season. But from what I saw Hutton wasn't as bad as some people make out. He was shocking early on, but actually had a decent spell after Christmas - nothing mindblowing but solid mid-table full back type level.
I'd be happy if he was replaced with that Spurs lad though.
Yep, I'd agree with all of that.
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I think the Hutton criticisms were probably over done. Although from what I saw he was garbage around 40% of the time. He's a thug, a bit of a liability, and he can't cross at all apart from zipping it across the six yard box. Wouldn't mind seeing him move on at all. The thought he once cost £9m is hilarious. I bet debuchy goes for about £5m this summer