Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kipeye on April 16, 2012, 05:15:34 PM
-
OK-I know we got beaten 4-0 but I thought the many younger players looked as good as any of the older ones present and previous.
I honestly think we will make a competitive team using just them and giving them a few matches together to gain experience.
This has proved successful before and not just in football- take the early hits while the kids get used to playing at the highest level and they will mature fast.
Let the old 'uns sit on the bench-they've had their chance.
-
While the incredible amount of injuries we've sustained have been (rightfully) used as a scapegoat for our current situation, I'm convinced that we've played a lot better since the team has become composed mostly of kids and academy graduates, since, say the Fulham game?
I think it comes down to the fact that the egos of the likes of Zog and Hutton go out the window and we're left with eleven players that genuinely want to do well for the club and have something to prove.
-
That's the feeling I get too Chipsticks. At least they make you feel more like cheering for them if nothing else.
-
I think i heard yesterday,if Given was out of the team,the average age would be 23. My fear is that McCleish will eventually suck all the skills and good habits out of them that theyve learned from the youth set up. Playing in a team,with no tactics or style could break the poor sods.
-
That's the feeling I get too Chipsticks. At least they make you feel more like cheering for them if nothing else.
That's something I completely agree with. A thought that I've had recently, particularly at the Chelsea game; is that I honestly don't think I've felt so attached to a Villa team in recent memory.
-
We definitely have the best bunch of youngsters in the league. They're holding their own in the Premier League against teams like Fulham, Stoke and Liverpool with most of them playing out of position. Give them another year or two of development in their natural positions and I think we will have a core of 10-15 really capable young players.
Then a couple of quality signings to add to that core squad and we could be up there challenging for Europe again. It's important that Randy recognizes the talent our youngsters possess and goes out to attain a manager that will help develop them and mature them in a positive, attacking style. Martinez wouldn't be a bad choice but a well scouted foreign coach wouldn't go amiss either. Do that and we could be looking at a very bright future with our youngsters.
-
We definitely have the best bunch of youngsters in the league. They're holding their own in the Premier League against teams like Fulham, Stoke and Liverpool with most of them playing out of position. Give them another year or two of development in their natural positions and I think we will have a core of 10-15 really capable young players.
Then a couple of quality signings to add to that core squad and we could be up there challenging for Europe again. It's important that Randy recognizes the talent our youngsters possess and goes out to attain a manager that will help develop them and mature them in a positive, attacking style. Martinez wouldn't be a bad choice but a well scouted foreign coach wouldn't go amiss either. Do that and we could be looking at a very bright future with our youngsters.
We just need a manager that can nurture them and not destroy them!
-
We definitely have the best bunch of youngsters in the league. They're holding their own in the Premier League against teams like Fulham, Stoke and Liverpool with most of them playing out of position. Give them another year or two of development in their natural positions and I think we will have a core of 10-15 really capable young players.
Then a couple of quality signings to add to that core squad and we could be up there challenging for Europe again. It's important that Randy recognizes the talent our youngsters possess and goes out to attain a manager that will help develop them and mature them in a positive, attacking style. Martinez wouldn't be a bad choice but a well scouted foreign coach wouldn't go amiss either. Do that and we could be looking at a very bright future with our youngsters.
We just need a manager that can nurture them and not destroy them!
Bring me Rafa Benitez or Paul Lambert.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
-
Clark , gardner, lichaj and weimann have impressed me, bannan , baker and albrighton not so much!
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
Oh and Bradley, been trying to remember his name for the last few minutes. He was another destined to be a world beater!
-
We just need a manager that can nurture them and not destroy them!
Blimey! That was quick!
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
I take it you're answering no then Richard. This will save time for future replies.
-
When he was at The Dog Shit, a mate of mine who supports them reckons that he's excellent at coaching any skill out of up and coming youngsters.
I'll bet Jordan Mutch and Nathan Redmond wouldn't be half as effective as they have been if he was still there.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
I take it you're answering no then Richard. This will save time for future replies.
I was just being self-indulgent and showing off my knowledge of all those youngsters who were going to be the next big thing for the Villa down the years. Ignore me, most do, and I wasn't criticising the subject of your thread per se. Apologies if I gave that impression!
-
No probs Richard. I was trying to look on the bright side of life.
-
We have an exceptional bunch of youngsters, definitely. Probably not the best in the league (Arsenal, always, the best youth training with the pick of the world's top youngsters, and a manager who will always use them), but really good ones. Sadly, for some of the current crop - Delfouneso, Albrighton, even Bannan - I suspect we'll not see how good they could be had they been trained better and trusted more, at least until they move elsewhere. Hopefully for some of the younger ones - Carruthers, Johnson, Gardner (who looks every inch a future Villa captain) - we'll have a different manager and even ownership in place before it's too late for them to really learn.
-
I honestly think that our youngsters can be the spine of our team
Clark and Baker look talented centre halfs.
Lichaj I think far better right back than hutton
Gardner has plenty of ablity
Albrighton can cross a ball , but needs a run in the team
Herd looked really impressive
Delph could play wide left if he sorts his head out.
Bannan play behind Weinmann in the ireland role
Weinmann looks very talented
The Fonz wont make it but I like bits of Carruthers we have seen.
A decent manager adding some experience and we could have a really exciting future. But Mccunt will fuck it up
I give sack him tomorrow and give it Mac till end of season
-
but I like bits of Carruthers
Ohh, cheeky.
-
We do have a lot of talented youngsters in our team and hopefully with some decent new arrivals in the summer and a bit of organisation next season might be something to look forward too.
-
If the next manager is willing to work with them, it's possible we could have a really good side within the next couple of years.
-
Albrighton can cross a ball , but needs a run in the team
Just based on my eyes and without looking at any stats, I think that Marc's crossing is the worst part of his game which is a bit of a problem for a winger.
-
I think we've got about the 2nd best crop too. Not sure about Fonz, and Albrighton and Bannan while having something about them have stalled a bit, but the younger lot all have potential. If they keep improving they could be the backbone of a decent premier league team. But realistically this is a few years away however fast and well they develop, so we need to add a couple of new faces in the meantime and not over play them or rely on them too much next year.
-
We have a fantastic bunch of young players.Get us a quality manager and the good times will be back at Villa.What about Benitez or Ole Gunner cant spell the rest of his name!but you know who i mean.
-
Albrighton can cross a ball , but needs a run in the team
Just based on my eyes and without looking at any stats, I think that Marc's crossing is the worst part of his game which is a bit of a problem for a winger.
He can cross it when he gets to the byline, but he never gets there any more as he plays on the wrong side and too deep, both dictated by MCSheesh's narrow and deep modus operandi. Heels in the chalk? Get tae fuck ya radge.
-
I think we've got some great youth players coming through and some of them are making a real impact in the 1st team. It's hard to argue with Arsenal's recent record but we're not that far behind in my opinion. There's plenty of clubs who would kill for our setup and I'd have to say that MacDonald has done a great job. I'm really excited by Weimann at the moment, it's early days but he looks a class act. As others have said, mix that with a few quality experienced signings and it could work out really well.
-
Albrighton can cross a ball , but needs a run in the team
Just based on my eyes and without looking at any stats, I think that Marc's crossing is the worst part of his game which is a bit of a problem for a winger.
He can cross it when he gets to the byline, but he never gets there any more as he plays on the wrong side and too deep, both dictated by MCSheesh's narrow and deep modus operandi. Heels in the chalk? Get tae fuck ya radge.
Some short memories on this board, when he came into the side at the start of last season he was getting right to the byline and putting in great crosses, we didn't benefit as much as we should because our front pairing at the time was gabby and young, gabby doesn't move well enough to get the goals he should and young trying to get on the end of a cross was never going to happen. Downing and Marc's quality delivery led to the little run where heskey got 4 in 6/7 games before he got injured and disappeared again.
-
Just based on my eyes and without looking at any stats, I think that Marc's crossing is the worst part of his game which is a bit of a problem for a winger.
When did you last have an eye test? for example the second goal he laid on a plate against chelsea.
-
Delph could play wide left if he sorts his head out.
I can't see it.
-
I do think that people sometimes expect too much of the academy, that more are going to make the grade than actually will, but when you look at what is regarded as a success in youth development (ie producing one regular first teamer is a major success) ours is quite clearly one of the best.
I worry a little that they need to be handled correctly. i always remember when Ryan Giggs started coming through, Ferguson was super cautious about how he blooded him, and I reckon that's got something to do with him having played a million games in the top flight.
Of the current batch, the one I think possibly needs to move on and build his career elsewhere is Delfouneso, he's somewhat older than the rest and has never really impressed me.
It staggers me, though, to hear people writing off Gardner after a handful of appearances. Same with Bannan. They're kids, they need time.
-
We've got a very strong batch. But I'm not sure any of them are going to be top, top players Richard. Hope I'm wrong.
-
We've got a very strong batch. But I'm not sure any of them are going to be top, top players Richard. Hope I'm wrong.
We've had some false dawns with the Moore brothers etc but I think Gary Gardner is the real deal. Does Ciaran Clark still count as youth? he should be the next Captain.
-
yes we have, and weve got loads of them
-
Perhaps I'm expecting too much but I've been disappointed with Gardner. He was so dominant for the reserves and I expected him to slot in seamlessly and grow. He hasn't. I hope he makes it.
Carruthers looked the deal when he came on for 10 minutes but was poor for the reserves the week before!
Weimann has got something, Lichaj seems pretty sound and Baker will be good with experience.
Clarke would be in my team every time.
Bannan wouldn't!
-
I do think that people sometimes expect too much of the academy, that more are going to make the grade than actually will, but when you look at what is regarded as a success in youth development (ie producing one regular first teamer is a major success) ours is quite clearly one of the best.
I worry a little that they need to be handled correctly. i always remember when Ryan Giggs started coming through, Ferguson was super cautious about how he blooded him, and I reckon that's got something to do with him having played a million games in the top flight.
Of the current batch, the one I think possibly needs to move on and build his career elsewhere is Delfouneso, he's somewhat older than the rest and has never really impressed me.
It staggers me, though, to hear people writing off Gardner after a handful of appearances. Same with Bannan. They're kids, they need time.
How many of them are actually "kids" though? Most of them are in their early 20's and if they were that good they would have been regulars before now. To put it into perspective, the likes of Rooney, Gerrard and Michael Owen were top players in the Premiership in their teens and I don't think any of the lads we have are at that level. I like the look of Clark at CB and Weimann looks like he has the ability and belief to play at that level. I think the jury is still out on the rest of them though (Gardner is still very young) and it doesn't help that they are often played out of position and alongside other inexperienced players when they do play.
-
I can't say i'm bowled over by any of them, but I concede i've not been bowled over by anybody in the last couple of years. I don't think they have had an impact like say Lee Hendrie did when he broke through. It would be great if a couple of them became really good / great players but i'm not convinced they will.
More positively we do seem to bring a lot of youngsters through, so we presumably have a greater chance of reaping the benefits then a club that does not.
-
How many of them are actually "kids" though? Most of them are in their early 20's and if they were that good they would have been regulars before now. To put it into perspective, the likes of Rooney, Gerrard and Michael Owen were top players in the Premiership in their teens and I don't think any of the lads we have are at that level. I like the look of Clark at CB and Weimann looks like he has the ability and belief to play at that level. I think the jury is still out on the rest of them though (Gardner is still very young) and it doesn't help that they are often played out of position and alongside other inexperienced players when they do play.
We're not saying they're going to be the next Wayne Rooney or Steven Gerrard. They're a very good batch of players and they will become good Premiership players. Instead of buying players like Reo-Coker for £8m, we save that money on having a player like Chris Herd in the team.
-
We've got a very strong batch. But I'm not sure any of them are going to be top, top players Richard. Hope I'm wrong.
Gardner, Weimann, Clark and Carruthers all have the attributes to make it at the very top (based on flashes from their games so far) but will need careful coaching and management. On top of those Herd, Delph, Albrighton, Baker, Lichaj and Bannan are all good enough to be long term squad filler. With Siegrist and Stevens both highly rated we could actually form a good side out of that lot, and that's ignoring a lot of potential that we haven't seen yet (grealish, johnson, etc).
If a good manager were to come in we can save a fortune with this lot and concentrate funds on quality experienced players to help us bring the kids through.
-
Some are good others over rated but thank God we have some talent because if we didn't Lord only knows what we'd do. For all the cost cutting the Academy has saved Lerner an absolute fortune.
-
We've a good bunch but no one's thus far stood out as someone to set the league alight. In truth it's partly down to the manager, and also having to play too many at once. There's a great deal of pressure on them, and no decent experienced heads to drive the team forward. Lets face it, Collins, Hutton and Warnock are crap, Stan is sadly out, and Gabby is well off sorts but not really a leader at all. As for Emile, what the hell can he do to inspire or teach the youngsters?
The reason Utd have some decent youngster coming through is that Fergie knows when to bring them through and he's got class on the pitch and shed loads of experience from Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand and even Roon who's been around for donkeys now. Granted they didn't get Jones or Smalling from the academy, but they've got promising players and the balance between the under 23's and the over 25's is very good.
Everton's youngsters are quite good. O Neill's had brought on a few at Sunderland. It's difficult to judge our standard of youngies against some clubs who don't bring their academy into the first time. The difference is, they have more expensively assembled senior teams, like at Chelski. Our lot are in the best 5 youth set ups I'd say. Our reserves success reflects that. We cannot compete in this league, with this manager, with kids alone though.
-
Some are good others over rated but thank God we have some talent because if we didn't Lord only knows what we'd do. For all the cost cutting the Academy has saved Lerner an absolute fortune.
Would do if we had the right manager.
-
Can't believe anyone can criticise Gardner - he's had a handful of games, the step-up is massive and its probably most difficult in centre midfield (in terms of imposing yourself). I expect it to be 1/2 more seasons before we see him consistently impress for us, thats if he plays a lot.
-
Let's be wary here.
Last season Albrighton started like a train and was hugely contributing to us winning games.
Bannan and Clark were both looking good.
All have struggled for different reasons this season, the second season is always very difficult for young players. Carroll obviously and someone like Hernandez hasn't been much cop this season.
That said I like the look of Lichaj and while Weimann and Herd aren't technically gifted, both have a lot of desire to make it that has previously eluded someone like Luke Moore and more recently the Fonz.
-
We've got a very strong batch. But I'm not sure any of them are going to be top, top players Richard. Hope I'm wrong.
Clark will be without a doubt imo. I rate him higher than Cahill when he was here and I liked Cahill.
-
To right off some of these kids at the moment is madness. If we were in good shape and playing with confidence these young kids would stand a much better chance of better performances too. They have a lot of weight on their shoulders and have been thrown into a relegation dog fight.
-
They're all fucking ace, they just need someone to put a decent framework together for them to work in.
-
Theyd probably do a great job for us in the championship
-
Delph could play wide left if he sorts his head out.
He played there for Leeds when he broke threw
I can't see it.
-
How many of them are actually "kids" though? Most of them are in their early 20's and if they were that good they would have been regulars before now. To put it into perspective, the likes of Rooney, Gerrard and Michael Owen were top players in the Premiership in their teens and I don't think any of the lads we have are at that level.
Yes, but you've picked three of the best players of their generation to compare them against, and one who is one of the best players in the world.
That's a bit of an unfair comparison isnt it?
There are plenty of very good footballers who also didn't reach the levels of the three you mentioned and at that age.
-
How many of them are actually "kids" though? Most of them are in their early 20's and if they were that good they would have been regulars before now. To put it into perspective, the likes of Rooney, Gerrard and Michael Owen were top players in the Premiership in their teens and I don't think any of the lads we have are at that level.
Yes, but you've picked three of the best players of their generation to compare them against, and one who is one of the best players in the world.
That's a bit of an unfair comparison isnt it?
There are plenty of very good footballers who also didn't reach the levels of the three you mentioned and at that age.
True and maybe the comparison was a little unfair. I suppose the point I was trying to make was that some of the players referred to as kids are in fact in their early 20's and are only really playing because there is noone else. If they had been that good, they would have featured before now. People are talking about building the future of the club on these players, when they haven't even proved they are Premiership class yet.
-
We've got a very strong batch. But I'm not sure any of them are going to be top, top players Richard. Hope I'm wrong.
Clark will be without a doubt imo. I rate him higher than Cahill when he was here and I liked Cahill.
I like Clark too. But every year I think he's going to cement a place at centre back. He's 22 now. When is this actually going to happen?
-
Lichaj - i think is a very good player - at right back - certianly better than the pub player we have there
Bannan - I do like him but he has to do the simple thigns right - too many 40/50 yard killer passes that dont come off
Clarke - Future captain and great player - needs to be CB as his pace lets him down in the centre
Herd - gets about the pitch well and gets stuck in - very good in the air and can chip in will goals as proven at reserve level / Anfield
Gardener - good skill and composure - lack of pace is clear but it would really help him if he was played in his right CM position insetad of wide
Baker - the goal aside (which i think is more Givens fault for not talking) i thought he was very dominant at United
Weinmann - love his movement and battling qualities - fantastic finish against Stoke showed that he has really good technique
Albrighton - came and went and then came back again - obviously a confidence player and he is struggling with this team at present - put him in a confident / winning team and he will return to the form we know he is capable of
Stevens - not seen him play but hear decent reports
Carruthers - dont know a lot about him but his cameo was impressive - i love players who run at the opposition
I think the other thign is media coverage - if say half of these players put in the very same performances under the same conditions (thrown in due to injuries etc) for Arsenal / Man U then they would be getting huge amounts of press exposure
The problem is they currently play for the most boring, uninspiring team in the league and that is a shame for them
-
I think people forget that great players start off as promising youngsters. Rooney and Owen were exceptional in they were outstanding at a very young age. The former has not improved in the last 3 or 4 years-he constantly gave the ball away on Sunday as he does regularly, and the latter got poorer as he turned 26. Gerrard looked out of his depth when he played his first season.
You might say they had good coaching- their talent would have been seen by others if not. We have a great team with Sid et al despite the real doubts about the manager-at least he is playing them and hasn't bought in a load of superannuated hacks which was what O'Neil did.
i would also add that OX-Face Chamber pot and the other Arsenal elite didn't look so good last night.
-
We have got a good crop of youngsters coming through I just hope we manage them properly so they can develop into top players that's why the manager has to put his arm around them when needed and take them out of the firing line when he has to we need to make sure that we don't knock the confidence out of them.
-
To me it appears the structure is working, as in we are consistently producing players of a certain quality.
What we’re waiting for is finding the gem that really stands out. It will happen but I’m not convinced that such a player is within the current crop.
That is not a criticism of any of the players. Having 5-10 homegrown squad players is a saving of probably 20m to 30m on transfer fees. That’s impressive.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
Oh and Bradley, been trying to remember his name for the last few minutes. He was another destined to be a world beater!
How could you forget Dean Glover?
-
My little game..
Without looking, place these 4 in order of age - oldest first
Herd
Albrighton
Bannan
Delfouneso
-
My little game..
Without looking, place these 4 in order of age - oldest first
Herd
Albrighton
Bannan
Delfouneso
Herd, Bannan, Albrighton, Delfouneso?
I may have muddle the 1st two, but I believe the last two are right. They've all passed 20 though I'm sure.
-
No.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
Oh and Bradley, been trying to remember his name for the last few minutes. He was another destined to be a world beater!
How could you forget Dean Glover?
And Mark Blake.
-
The best youngster we've produced in a while?.... Cahill.
-
My little game..
Without looking, place these 4 in order of age - oldest first
Herd
Albrighton
Bannan
Delfouneso
Herd, Bannan, Albrighton, Delfouneso?
I may have muddle the 1st two, but I believe the last two are right. They've all passed 20 though I'm sure.
Good try. Actually, they were in age order anyway - the point I was making is that when I try that out on most people, they seem to think that Fonz is at least a year older than he actually is.
He seems to have been around for ever - but he has only just reached 21. What might he be able to do with a run in the firsat team - which I don't think he has ever had ?
-
I can't believe people are writing off Bannan. He's clearly frustrated being stuck out on the right wing to rot. He needs to be playing little one twos, buzzng around off others good footballers and looking for kiiller passes in the final third. We are utterly and completely wasting his natural ability.
-
I can't believe people are writing off Bannan. He's clearly frustrated being stuck out on the right wing to rot. He needs to be playing little one twos, buzzng around off others good footballers and looking for kiiller passes in the final third. We are utterly and completely wasting his natural ability.
I completely agree. How far that natural ability will take him I have no idea but I am certain it will never materialise as a winger.
-
I can't believe people are writing off Bannan. He's clearly frustrated being stuck out on the right wing to rot. He needs to be playing little one twos, buzzng around off others good footballers and looking for kiiller passes in the final third. We are utterly and completely wasting his natural ability.
I completely agree. How far that natural ability will take him I have no idea but I am certain it will never materialise as a winger.
Kind of funny that the one manager who you'd think would see him as a 'favourite', with the Scottish connection, is the guy who seems to be draining away his talent. Still a decent player though.
-
It is a huge credit that our Accademy have produced so many players that have been able to survive playing in the PL. I doubt that any of them are any thing other than squad players if we had a proper PL level first 11.This is not a Scholes Giggs Beckham Neville situation.
i would also say that our predicament in terms of leadership, coaching, squad stength and league position is not the enviorenment that enables young talent to flourish.
-
Chipsticks who Lambert got to bring the mint sauce.
-
at best we've probably got one star, 3 or 4 premiership journeymen and the rest will be binned to the lower leagues. Someone said on another thread that whittingham made the grade after we let him go but that was an awfully long time ago. Someone like Moore who's a reserves at Swansea, similar time span - well thats gonna be a bit late for us unless we're looking for the kids to make the grade in 2020.
I have the utmost respect for people who watch the reserves but they're always hopelessly optimistic concerning the kids and while the jury's out on many of them, i'll eat my hat if someone like Bannon ever makes the grade.
-
I dearly hope Bannan isn't sulking at playing wide, if he is then he can find another club for me - any young player should be doing everything they can to cement a place in the first team and helping the cause, not sulking because they can't have everything 100% their own way.
-
I dearly hope Bannan isn't sulking at playing wide, if he is then he can find another club for me - any young player should be doing everything they can to cement a place in the first team and helping the cause, not sulking because they can't have everything 100% their own way.
He's what Stewart Hall would call a fanny merchant - thinks he can win a game with one pass. - makes Ireland seem hard working. If he's like that now, he's got no chance
-
at best we've probably got one star, 3 or 4 premiership journeymen and the rest will be binned to the lower leagues. Someone said on another thread that whittingham made the grade after we let him go but that was an awfully long time ago. Someone like Moore who's a reserves at Swansea, similar time span - well thats gonna be a bit late for us unless we're looking for the kids to make the grade in 2020.
I have the utmost respect for people who watch the reserves but they're always hopelessly optimistic concerning the kids and while the jury's out on many of them, i'll eat my hat if someone like Bannon ever makes the grade.
With respect Greg-you can't know this yet and perhaps forget we have developed talented players who are succesful elsewhere-Barry for one. I would also include Young and Milner although they are not Academy players (probably because the Academy has been itself developing). Young was unproven and Milner only came to anyone's attention after we had him on loan. Players develop at different speeds.
Go back further and you will find some fantastic players who other teams would have been proud to have.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
I agree with this. Compare with Southampton who produced Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain within a decade.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
I agree with this. Compare with Southampton who produced Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain within a decade.
Only Bale deserves major credit (and even he was a poor premiership player until he reached his 20s), Walcott is, for me, very similar to Gabby and Oxlade-Chamberlain is still in his first season and it's a bit easier to look good in a side that play pass and move where you always have options .
The problem we've had for me is that only gabby has come through with a massive physical advantage (i.e. being fast as f**k), which enabled him to come in and look at home when he was younger. Most of the other youngsters have physically developed at a normal rate and have only in their early 20s got to the point where they're able to hold their own in the premiership, this isn't unusual.
In the last 7-8 years the only youngsters I can think of to have come through as teenagers to great success in England based on skill/technique rather than physique are Fabregas and Wilshere, unsuprisingly both at the same club where the manager has put a bottom-up system in place where it's easier for players to come in and play their natural game.
-
Not particularly disagreeing paul_e but personally I'd swap Walcott for Agbonlahor any day. And who in our youth set up is as good as Oxlade Chamberlain? (and if they are why aren't they playing!)
-
Of the current batch, the one I think possibly needs to move on and build his career elsewhere is Delfouneso, he's somewhat older than the rest and has never really impressed me.
It staggers me, though, to hear people writing off Gardner after a handful of appearances. Same with Bannan. They're kids, they need time.
The Fonz is 15-18 months younger than Bannan, Clark and Albrighton.
And you say not to write Bannan off after a handful of appearances yet you appear to do that with Delfouneso. Granted, he hasn't pulled up any trees during his loan spells but there is a technically gifted, athletic player in there that can still make it imo.
I mentioned this before but it bears repeating - the Birmingham derby last season; 1-1 at the Sty, the Fonz came off the bench and nearly won the game with a brilliant take, swivel and long-range screamer that rattled the bar with Foster well-beaten. I can't help thinking if that had gone in what it would have done for his career (and maybe Houllier's too).
-
Siegrist
Lichaj Clark Baker
Albrighton Herd Bannan Gardner Delph
Weimann Agbonlahor
With Carruthers, Johnson, Williams, Delfouneso (perhaps) and others to back this up, this could make a useful side; playing wingbacks against teams that generally these days line up with one central striker and wingers.
Probably far too optimistic, but in these dark days it's good to look ahead with some positivity.
-
I like your thinking EfDee. Somehow part of me thinks this wouldn't be the disaster most people would expect.
-
that team now would definitely get relegated. Very hard to predict how all of those players will push on and 3-4 being established premier league top 6 players would be wonderful.
I reckon Clark, Gardner, Weimann have got the best chance, and I still think there just has to be a player in Delph somewhere.
-
that team now would definitely get relegated.
I was looking ahead.
-
Lichaj, Weimann, Herd have looked good in a lot of their appearances this season.
Albrighton - was fairly good defensively yesterday in fairness to him but his final ball was awful. Which is depressing because if you asked me what I thought of him January last year it would have been 'Fantastic final ball. Awful defensively'. Hopefully he can find that pinpoint cross again. As a person he seems great, a villa fan just needs to find some confidence and bulk up abit i hope.
Bannan - Think he'll do a lot better under a different manager. Was a shining light at start of the season, for club and country, one of the few players talked about around the league - linked with Liverpool and United. Drink Driving ruined his season. Dont think the abuse he gets on twitter is doing him any good. It seems to bother him (and Marc) more than most. Dont think him and McLeish see eye-to-eye. Needs a new manager, or failing that a new club. Hope he stays.
Weimann - Our best player at the minute. Needs to learn when to shoot, his gut instinct is good (a la that goal the other week) needs to learn to listen to it more often but his workrate is fantastic. If he can improve his decision making he could be a top forward, a goal scorer and more involved in the game than Bent.
Herd - Wrote him off last season, thought he should be sold to a Championship or League 1 team along with Hogg. Oh how wrong I was.
Gardner - Eck. Please let him run our midfield like you were trying to get Petrov to, this lad can actually do it. He looks like he wants to be the midfield engine but has been told to sit in midfield and let Herd do the legwork. Future Captain.
Clark - Feel bad for Clark because he deserves a spot in the team and cant find one unless Baker or Herd get injured, worried he will go backwards and leave to become the next Cahill.
Carruthers deserves a start. Think he'd play well with NZogbia too behind Weimann.
Baker, Did well at the U21's and could be a good CB in the future but he's making a few mistakes (thought he did well yesterday though). Not sure why Clark hasnt been given a game at CB in a while. Hopefully Baker will be good enough and they can be our new pairing in the centre in a couple of years?
We certainly have the best output of players in the PL at the moment, we just need to do the one thing we've always been shite at and nurture them into proper PL players and hopefully find some top class ones in the long run.
-
Albrighton can cross a ball , but needs a run in the team
Just based on my eyes and without looking at any stats, I think that Marc's crossing is the worst part of his game which is a bit of a problem for a winger.
Plenty of evidence of that yesterday. I hope he can improve that aspect of his game as it would lead to many goals.
-
Lichaj, Weimann, Herd have looked good in a lot of their appearances this season ... into proper PL players and hopefully find some top class ones in the long run.
Shoody: I'm sure that Clark will not be sidelined regardless of who is managing the side next season. His class is clear.
Baker: after his poor play against Chelsea I think he's been a revelation. Reads the game, strong in the tackle and likes to get forward.
Lichaj was excellent yesterday, I thought, and showed to Hutton what cover-defending is all about.
That's why - above - I suggest that these three could become a very effective back three against sides that play one up front.
-
Those young players will all click together soon. As each one is brought in, people are wary but now, with all the experience they have had, they are part of the fixtures and fittings. It gave us plenty of options on the bench yesterday. Don't be surprised if we put four past Bolton.
-
Don't be surprised if we put four past Bolton.
Blimey. I put your posts last night down to a heavy drinking session. Looks like it was an all-nighter.
-
If we'd have won against S'land I'd have fancied us to throw the shackles off and give Bolton a bit of a pasting....but we didn't, so we wont.
-
Those young players will all click together soon. As each one is brought in, people are wary but now, with all the experience they have had, they are part of the fixtures and fittings. It gave us plenty of options on the bench yesterday. Don't be surprised if we put four past Bolton.
I agree, there's some great kids down there and in a year or two's time they could gel. As for them giving us options on the bench, that's not much use when the manger puts a centre midfielder on the wing.
-
In answer to the actual question, yes we have some great youngsters.
But, unless they are developed properly and nurtured by a manager and coaching staff who know what they are doing, these boys will be ruined.
-
Albrighton can cross a ball , but needs a run in the team
Just based on my eyes and without looking at any stats, I think that Marc's crossing is the worst part of his game which is a bit of a problem for a winger.
Plenty of evidence of that yesterday. I hope he can improve that aspect of his game as it would lead to many goals.
I’m not going to judge Albrighton too harshly until he gets a run on the right. Some wingers like to cut in onto their better foot but I don’t think that’s the case with Albrighton. His inclination is to hit the line and whip in crosses.
The same goes for Bannan, Gardner (played wide), Licaj (played as left back) and to a lesser extent Clark. They’ve all been asked to play out of position which is a tough ask.
-
For all the criticism of the coaching set up at BH under Pubehead (and a fair amount of criticism was justified I reckon) it must have been some benefit to our wingers to have John Roberston to call upon.
A feature of Albrighton's play when he first burst on the scene was the accuracy of his crossing- and how he didn't fanny about before whipping the ball in.
Golfers need constant practice, even when they reach a decent standard. Ditto batsmen. Sometimes it's a case of making slight alterations to the swing, late foot movement and so on. For specific skills in football (free kicks and crosses from wide) there might be a parallel. A fellow winger may know and appreciate this. The attention to detail. Coaching staff of the calibre of McLeish and Grant probably don't place much weight behind such things.
If that sounds unfair, our weakness at both defending and attacking set pieces, our inability to create chances from open play and all the various other deficiencies in our game seem to illustrate that learning and preparation aren't the name of the game under the current managerial dreamteam Monday - Friday. It increasingly seems like they are a pair of blaggers, hand gestures and going through the motions on the touchline on a Saturday seem to be all they bring to the party.
In Albrighton's specific case, I don't think playing wide left has helped matters either. A player like Downing benefited from switching flanks and cutting in on his stronger foot because he could be more direct and either have a shot at goal or create mayhem. Albrighton is more an old style winger - go on the outside, get near the by-line and whipping balls in is (or should be) his game.
-
I think we have some really good youngsters and with the right development and right amount of senior pros with them, a number of the could be future avfc stars.
At present i feel sorry for them for being in the situation that they are in but this could be very good experience for them.
Also on twitter, I am absolutely amazed and get very annoyed by the number of so called "fans" directly tweeting the younger players and calling them 5h1t and slating their performances. I really do not know what these so called fans are expecting from the inexperienced younger players. Some idiots on there are evening laying into Gary Gardner! I mean come on!! The guy is hardly an established premier league player at the moment and still learning his trade at the top level. He is slowly progressing and it will take him time to develop into a very very good player. There is also a lot of abuse aimed at Barry Bannan which I think is uncalled for especially if he is still an avfc player. Ok, his performances might not be great but sometimes, these players need confidence at a time when the club is at an all time low.
-
37 pages, 3 until we get into a huge argument about Delfouneso, 5 until the subject of Bannan comes up and who knows how many until we get onto my favourite subject which is we produce loads of ok youngsters along the lines of Byfield, Lee, Carruthers (Martin), Kerr, Olney, the Moores x 2 et all but very few top notch ones
Oh and Bradley, been trying to remember his name for the last few minutes. He was another destined to be a world beater!
Dont forget Jimmy Brown our youngest ever captain.
-
Bannan. Toss. Sell.
-
Clark , gardner , herd yes.
Baker , lichaj, carruthers Weimann, maybe
Bannan , albrighton no.
-
I think its a good thing about the younger players coming though into the first team. Doing well by winning the reserve league year on year and that Euro league we were in this year. This will attract more youngsters to the club knowing that they will get a chance. The reserve league after next year will be an under 23 league they are just trying to sort the rules on the amount of over 23 to allow to play re those coming back from injury etc.
-
I think its a good thing about the younger players coming though into the first team. Doing well by winning the reserve league year on year and that Euro league we were in this year. This will attract more youngsters to the club knowing that they will get a chance. The reserve league after next year will be an under 23 league they are just trying to sort the rules on the amount of over 23 to allow to play re those coming back from injury etc.
But the majority of under 23 players for the likes of Arsenal/Man U are out on loan playing first team football at either PL or Championship level, not messing around playing against young kids. I think we have done our youngsters a great disfavour in the past by not sending them out to lower placed clubs for them to get experience and see the other side of the coin. Instead we have allowed ourselves to believe we are bringing brilliant youngsters through as they are winning the reserve league but how many have actually cemented a regular first team spot at VP over the last 5/6 years?
-
BB, The Fonz. Andreas, Gardner, Delph, Lichaj have been out on loan and last year Hogg and Lowry went out on loan and were later sold to those clubs. I think that lots more loan deals would have been done but we needed them more as back up/first teamers.
-
Some good points on here regarding how you assess these players; in their reserve league or their performance in first team football. Also whether they would have done better by being loaned out. The latter would tend to split the Academy concept up a bit though.
The Play-Off Final at Old Trafford will be interesting. It is probably the biggest game that some of them will ever play in and is the culmination of much hard work and dedication by the players and their coaches. Congratulations and best of luck to all involved.
I think that those who have made it to the first team on a regular basis should now be rated on that alone. No turning back for players like Gardner now. Obviously those with more experience, such as Albrighton, should not get as much rope as those like Gardner. These players must realise that it is Do or Die.
-
BB, The Fonz. Andreas, Gardner, Delph, Lichaj have been out on loan and last year Hogg and Lowry went out on loan and were later sold to those clubs. I think that lots more loan deals would have been done but we needed them more as back up/first teamers.
We do send players out on loan but it’s usually for a few sporadic months, whereas Man U and Arsenal send players away for an entire season arguably when they’d be viable reserves/subs for their 1st XIs. Good recent examples are Wellbeck and Wilshire.
Once they come back they’re arguably ready for the first team having played 30 odd games already.
-
I don't particularly like rounding on youngsters, but Albrighton has been truly awful this season and shouldn't be anywhere near a starting place.
-
Albrighton is a prime example of a youngster following Managers instructions, to the detriment of his own game, also of not being taken out of the spotlight when he should have been.
Carruthers, brought on at the Theatre of Shite when all was lost and not seen since, even when the player playing M.A is having a mare?????
-
Every few weeks this player or that player is going to be a world beater. I don't see it happening, there all built up too much.
-
The lack of any proper leader on the pitch is also a terrible situation to throw young players into.
-
Last season, Albrighton had Ashley Young and Downing as support and he probably spoke to them regarding help and support. This season, he really doesnt have anyone. I mean Nzog has been nothing but useless this season so he would hardly spek to him for advise or support. MA needs some more time and needs a better coach to help him. I still believe in him, Herd, Gards, Bannan, Lichaj, Baker and Weimann to all come good. They are in a crap situation at the moment. Put them with a few experienced heads and they will learn off them. To lose faith in any of them at this stage is criminal and we should be backing them 100% through the tough times
-
Assuming we got a new manager and an experienced head or two over the summer, would a season in the championship be good for the kids?
-
Assuming we got a new manager and an experienced head or two over the summer, would a season in the championship be good for the kids?
Might be good for them but could ruin the club.