Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: OzVilla on April 15, 2012, 09:29:40 PM
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It's a real toughie to work out which one it is.
Atleast McLeish has a plan - not a very good one - but atleast he has one. Then again, his bowing at the alter of the 'Theatre of Dreams' was aparticularly clueless thing to do.
Randy, no plan, no words and no attendence. Appointing Faulkner who appoints shite Managers.
Randy, just.
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A human centipede of fools.
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Tough one.
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Memories are short of just how much Randy has put in. I think he is very misguided in his faith in Faulkner and McLeish, but the manager is easily the most inept we have endured in as long as I remember.
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Thats a good question, like you say McLeish atleast knows what he's doing (even if it is absolutely dross) were as I genuinly don't think Randy has a clue. From giving O'Neill to much freedom over our resources to appointing Faulkner to approaching 2 managers last summer with totally different football philosophys.
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Lerner, the man has put his money where his mouth is and has invested to an extent but is so arseclenchingly incompetent that it's all for nothing.
Anyone with even the most passing of knowledges of football could have told you McLeish would be a poor appointment, though he has been even worse than most of them could have expected. If someone gets killed in a hit and run, it's not the car that is to blame but the person behind the wheel. Lerner appointed McLeish and should have been aware enough of how bad the appointment was from his record.
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Randy for appointing the clueless fucker
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Randy. McLeish was just chancing his arm (as any of us would for a better job). Randy appointed him and Houllier before him and has demonstrated absolutely no coherent strategy since May 2010.
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AMc is clueless and Lerner was clueless appointing him .
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They're both clueless(although not all that Randy has done is wrong). However we can get rid of Mcleish and we can't get rid of Randy, so therefore Mcleish is better to target.
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McLeish is just being McLeish. He's a shit manager, but everybody except Lerner knew that. After the failed Houllier appointment, if Lerner was really interested in trying to repair the damage, he'd have appointed anybody except McLeish. He doesn't give a shit, and therefore he's not just clueless but an arsehole as well.
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The past two years have been conducted like a terrible am-dram production. If you were trying to write a ham-fisted farce about clueless authority and people promoted beyond their abilities, you'd be hard pressed to top the way Aston Villa have done it.
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I voted for Randy. Mcleish went from a relegated club to a premier league club and got a handsome pay rise into the bargain. Sounds pretty clued up to me.
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McLeish just means shit football week in week out until he eventually gets sacked and someone else has a go. Thats the nature of professional football clubs. We have had good uns, we have had bad uns - just like every other club.
The real problem is Randy Lerner. No matter how much money he puts in, he is an absentee owner and the entire ownership of the club is in the hands of one individual. That is a situation we have never had before at Aston Villa. I like everybody accepted it when things were going well, but now things are going wrong not only are we pissed off but we are alienated too. An alienation we didnt feel even with the old duffers in charge in the 1960s pre-Ellis.
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The thing is, I can deal with an 'absentee' owner as long as you feel they have a clue about football. I mean, Roman Abramovich (who admittedly does attend the majority of Chelski home games these days) isn't the most vocal of people but football is his game and he lobs money at a team because he ultimately wants to be recognised as the man who won sporting glory for his side.
Lerner, on the other hand, only knows about football culture through yes-men and patsies and if they're telling him it's all going to plan on the spreadsheets and we're likely to still be in the top division on a reduced budget, he'll buy it. What he doesn't get is the air of depression amongst the supporters or the fact we're fucked-off by our name being linked to crap football and relegation struggles. I don't want they guy gone, I just want him to get a grip, realise we're not an asset and make smarter choices. It's going to take three or four years to get back to mid-table at the very earliest, and that's if the rot is stopped now. If he hesitates, I have a feeling it'll take us a decade or more to be competitive again and it'll be under a different owner to boot.
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Eh??? McLeish has no plan. That is why we are shit. Nobody knows what they're supposed to be doing. When he was at blues he had a plan - defend. We don't even have that plan!
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Isn't this just the "Who's to blame" thread but with a different poll?
How many do we need?
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Isn't this just the "Who's to blame" thread but with a different poll?
How many do we need?
That's about who is to blame.
This is about who is the more stupid. Both things contribute to our current predicament, but they aren't the same.
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Lerner.
McLeish is a poor football manager (as shown by his two relegations in four years) who should have got nowhere near the Villa job.
The fact he got it within weeks of getting Small Heath relegated beggars belief. For that, you have to point the finger at Randy.
I am sure he has generally good intentions, but he has proven himself to be way, way out of his depth when it comes to running sport businesses, on both sides of the Atlantic.
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The past two years have been conducted like a terrible am-dram production. If you were trying to write a ham-fisted farce about clueless authority and people promoted beyond their abilities, you'd be hard pressed to top the way Aston Villa have done it.
That's absolutely spot on, and very well put.
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Yes, all so true Paulie and curiousorange. I am not going to pretend to be wise after the event because I bought it all as much as the next Villa fan but I do remember wondering several times why the Cleveland Browns could be so unremittingly poor when he seemed to be doing such good things for us. Now I have found out. It is perhaps also time to admit that I didn't like the way a lot of loyal Villa fans had their throats jumped down as soon as they dared to query anything 'the General' said in his thread. I didn't have the guts to admit it at the time, but it didn't feel right. I wonder where he was today whilst we were all seething at that diving, cheating twat winning a pen for their first goal
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Isn't this just the "Who's to blame" thread but with a different poll?
How many do we need?
That's about who is to blame.
This is about who is the more stupid. Both things contribute to our current predicament, but they aren't the same.
We needed a new thread for it though? Really?
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I didn't have the guts to admit it at the time, but it didn't feel right.
Yes, a lot of people are saying things now that they apparently thought at the time but 'didn't feel like saying'.
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I didn't have the guts to admit it at the time, but it didn't feel right.
Yes, a lot of people are saying things now that they apparently thought at the time but 'didn't feel like saying'.
Any time anybody questioned the general they had numerous posters jumping down there throat so I can see what Richard Moore means.
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The Buck stops with Lerner, he is responsible for a littany of crap decisions.
It is difficult to see how you could make a bigger mess of the club than he has unless that was the original intention.
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I didn't have the guts to admit it at the time, but it didn't feel right.
Yes, a lot of people are saying things now that they apparently thought at the time but 'didn't feel like saying'.
I wish I knew which thread I posted in about three or four years ago when I said that the time to judge Lerner as an owner would be after he had had to replace a manager and deal with a downturn in fortunes on the pitch. Whilst I don't get any pleasure in saying it, those things have come to pass and I've made my judgement.
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I didn't have the guts to admit it at the time, but it didn't feel right.
Yes, a lot of people are saying things now that they apparently thought at the time but 'didn't feel like saying'.
A lot of people were taken in by Lerner and The General's propaganda. Most people have the intelligence to have seen through it now.
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I didn't have the guts to admit it at the time, but it didn't feel right.
Yes, a lot of people are saying things now that they apparently thought at the time but 'didn't feel like saying'.
Any time anybody questioned the general they had numerous posters jumping down there throat so I can see what Richard Moore means.
Dave, I've just admitted I didn't have the guts to say it even though I thought it was bad that posters seemed unable to question the General without being subject to a witch hunt. I haven't said 'I didn't feel like saying' things at all. I wanted to but lacked the moral conviction to do so
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Lerner for me, he has created this mess.
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What makes this all the more disappointing is to see how divided villa fans are among themselves today. That's a sure sign that there's no escaping how bad things are. It's not like we're in 'transition'. Transition implies that a rebuilding programme is under way but hasn't been completed yet.
This is a dismantling.
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Lerner.
McLeish is an utter shambles of a manager, but with budget cuts, the best players being sold and a reliance on the young lads who simply aren't ready for Premier League football, it would be a tough job for any manager.
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The Cleveland Browns record should have been a massive sign post about Randy. I think his lack of competence was disguised for several years by MON being landed in his lap from day 1 and running the club for him, ostensibly reasonably well but quietly and steadily leading it into dangerous financial waters. And some other little distractions like his nods to the club's heritage, the refurb of the Holte Hotel, the tattoo, the talk of IMG and what they could do for us, the Nike deal, and the fans direct line to the powers that be via the general - as long as your query was restricted to the quality of the pies and other such mindless inanities. I admit to admiring him for most of this, but it all turns out to have been lipstick on a pig, and I'm afraid RL now comes across for all the world as the idiot child of a billionaire, with way more money than sense. He's more clueless even than McLeish, because at least the the ginger minger will come out of this financially better off.
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At the end of the day, McLeish is a talentless, moronic little shit that has dragged Aston Villa into the dark ages with his pathetic tactics and coaching techniques. But it was Lerner who looked at what he did at Small Heath and thought "Yep, this is the man for the Villa."
So it has to be Lerner.
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Actually yes N'Zimidy. It's difficult to imagine normally functioning sentient, intelligent beings looking at McLeish's appalling PL record, and some equally unimpressive lowlights in Scotland, and coming up with the conclusion that it would be a good idea to make him manager of Aston Villa. It really was the most bizarre, inexplicable appointment.
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I dunno kt.
His CV isn't completely without merit.
*Various titles and cups with Rangers
*CL Experience
*International experience with Scotland
*Winning a trophy for a joke outfit like B-lose
You can skim read that and think, yes, that does actually tick the boxes for managing a club like ours. Rangers are in a shit league, but there is pressure with a job that big. And he did as well as O'Neill up there.
That's the difference I suppose between knowing the game and not knowing it/ relying on agencies and other third parties to fill in the gaps.
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It's going to take three or four years to get back to mid-table at the very earliest, and that's if the rot is stopped now. If he hesitates, I have a feeling it'll take us a decade or more to be competitive again and it'll be under a different owner to boot.
Three or four years to turn 4 of our 14 draws (8 more points onto our current tally) into wins because that is all that's stopping us being mid table right now. If its going to take either our current manager or a new one three or four years to achieve that then we might as well give up now. If thats the level of progress you expect in any business over that length of time then I wouldnt want to be a shareholder in any business you own or run! Just look at the progress Norwich City and Southampton have achieved in three or four years. Three or four years is a very long time in football just ask Man City!
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Randy has never been one to court the media (and has invested a great deal of money into the club). McLeish on the other hand has been involved in football all of his career and still serves up this clueless dross. So it's McLeish for me. He should go and go now.
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Randy has never been one to court the media (and has invested a great deal of money into the club). McLeish on the other hand has been involved in football all of his career and still serves up this clueless dross. So it's McLeish for me. He should go and go now.
who appointed him?
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Randy for me. The way he has singlehandedly and almost purposefully downgraded the ambition and stature of the club is completely unforgiveable.As someone said on here a Villa hater could not have done a better job of destroying us.
Custodian of the club My arse
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Lerner.
All very well saying 'he's done a lot' but you have to keep on doing it, You can't just toss it aside after 4 or 5 seasons.
What was the point in the original investment if you're then going to piss it up the wall?
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AMc is clueless and Lerner was clueless appointing him .
This.
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How much does AVFC owe RAL? I know the club pays millions of interest each year to RAL on the loans but what is the total amount does anyone know? With the appointment of McLeish, I really fear there is a chance of him pulling the plug on the club similar to the Pompey ex chairman.
The deference to 'the general' and Lerner shown by many supporters on here was vomit inducing. It's always better to question and criticise where appropriate. Those that showed up to protest against McLeish being appointed don't seem so small time now. Small time is the way we rolled over for fairly average champions elect yesterday.
McLeish is a hopeless manager but replacing him while necessary doesn't solve the huge problem at board level. The appointment of a proper chief executive is far more important than a change of manager in the summer.
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I think what would be appropriate during EURO 2012 would for AVTV to produce a fantasy football show
McLeish and Lerner: Unplanned
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How much has Lerner put into Aston Villa and how much of the investment is now toxic debt?
I read all the time about Lerners investment but ask why are we in debt for about £90 m then?
Where is the General when we need him?
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Randy has never been one to court the media (and has invested a great deal of money into the club). McLeish on the other hand has been involved in football all of his career and still serves up this clueless dross. So it's McLeish for me. He should go and go now.
who appointed him?
You're right, a more horrific, short sighted appointment would have been almost impossible. At least Randy has some Karma credits in the bank to draw on (which he has I hasten to add all but used up). McLeish however with his anti-football, negative, draw at all costs, can't defend a set piece (although he was a defender) mentality has now more than used up his.
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Who is the more clueless?
Us - we keep handing over our money despite our feelings.
Next week - day off work, 350 mile round trip to watch us against Bolton - define idiot
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Randy is the obvious choice but who advises him?As someone said earlier the Cleveland Browns are his potential yardstick.
I would rather get hammered every week ,having a go at teams,than this peurile rubbish.
Everyone who supports this club knows what is coming,every f..king week,it is garbage.
But we knew this ,didn't we?
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Who is the more clueless?
Us - we keep handing over our money despite our feelings.
Next week - day off work, 350 mile round trip to watch us against Bolton - define idiot
I'm doing the same (well, 230 mile round trip for me)
At the end of the day the club needs us... Aston Villa is bigger than Lerner, bigger than Faulkner and certainly bigger than McLeish!