Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: brian green on February 13, 2012, 09:23:18 PM
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I cannot remember a time when our play yo yoed from very good to very bad so suddenly and seemingly without reason.
The games which stick in my mind are QPR home and away when we were unbelievably bad in one half of the game and really good in the other. Arsenal away in the cup was another.
We also have passages of play in many games when really good football is mixed in with total rubbish. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is all too random and spontaneous to be put down to anything the manager might or might not say or do.
Needless to say our points tally tells you that there has been far more bad than good but the fact that his season we have seen some very good stuff makes bearing the contradictions of the first 77 minutes of last Saturday's game compared with the last 13 minutes even harder to bear.
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The home record isn't helping is it. People ocassionally like to see their team win and they're obviously ill at ease at Villa Park because its becoming a millstone round their necks. But you're right, we have played well and awful in the space of 90 minutes both home and away.
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To be honest we have been hit with loads of misfortune bar the Wolves game of late. Plenty of penalty appeals turned down, loads of penatlies being given against us, mistakes at the back being punished, deflections falling towards oppostions strikers and Stephen Warnock.
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You can point to those good periods as examples of what we're capable of.
But then I'm sure most struggling/ relegation threatened sides could say similar.
Wolves - who got absolutely annihilated at home to a pretty ordinary Olbiyun side yesterday (and lost to us) had us on the ropes for big period of the game at their place.
B-lose went down last year despite giving a team as good as Arsenal a real going over (only a week or so after le Arse had beaten Barcelona). The West Ham side that went down last year beat Liverpool convincingly at home and had a spell from about Jan - March where they actually looked half decent. For a bit.
But when you have as many shortcomings as we do, the mistakes more often than not undo any good work, or our bright play only brings us back to parity in a match. A selection containing Wanock, Collins and Dunne is all to often like a 1 or 2 goal handicap.
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Honestly, I don't think it's much of a mystery. When we are chasing a game, we generally play much better than we do when we have to press a game.
To me we set up to defend and stifle, playing a pass and hold game. Once we have gone behind we can no longer do that and have to open and play a pass and move game. Once we are back level we start playing with caution again. This is why our games go in fits and starts and also why we have gained quite a number of points from losing positions. It's also one of the most frustrating things about McCleish's tactics as we obviously can play, we just arn't being encouraged to from the outset of a game.
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To be honest we have been hit with loads of misfortune bar the Wolves game of late. Plenty of penalty appeals turned down, loads of penatlies being given against us, mistakes at the back being punished, deflections falling towards oppostions strikers and Stephen Warnock.
If you try and defend far to deep and give the ball away cheaply then you will give away more penalties, you will see more mistakes being made and you will see more deflections falling to the opposition. That's not misfortune or bad luck.
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Generally the flip has been with the likes of Ireland, NZogbia, Albrighton, Keane and Gardner of late on the pitch, creating space and opportunity.
The flop is when the side is stifled by tactical suicide.
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Generally the flip has been with the likes of Ireland, NZogbia, Albrighton, Keane and Gardner of late on the pitch, creating space and opportunity.
The flop is when the side is stifled by tactical suicide.
Pretty much bang on.
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I thought this thread was about a new French defender we were looking at signing.
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You can point to those good periods as examples of what we're capable of.
But then I'm sure most struggling/ relegation threatened sides could say similar.
Wolves - who got absolutely annihilated at home to a pretty ordinary Olbiyun side yesterday (and lost to us) had us on the ropes for big period of the game at their place.
B-lose went down last year despite giving a team as good as Arsenal a real going over (only a week or so after le Arse had beaten Barcelona). The West Ham side that went down last year beat Liverpool convincingly at home and had a spell from about Jan - March where they actually looked half decent. For a bit.
But when you have as many shortcomings as we do, the mistakes more often than not undo any good work, or our bright play only brings us back to parity in a match. A selection containing Wanock, Collins and Dunne is all to often like a 1 or 2 goal handicap.
See also Blackpool, who played some fantastic stuff, but couldn't defend, and got relegated.
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Defend too deep and you get flop football.
Our manager is the only one Who can't/won't see it.
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25 games and we can remember having good spells in 2 !!
I'm sure we have had the odd good 5 or 10 minutes in other games as well, but I think that sums up the season so far.
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Our season in a nutshell was covered in 3 days when won at Chelsea and got panned by Swansea.
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Generally the flip has been with the likes of Ireland, NZogbia, Albrighton, Keane and Gardner of late on the pitch, creating space and opportunity.
The flop is when the side is stifled by tactical suicide.
Spot on!
Unfortunately AMC would prefer to play Heskey (who I thought played well on Sunday) instead of N'Zogbia and Keane is going back to Baywatch so theres gonna be more flop than flip!
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McLeish is like Houiller was last season. Just when you thought he's finally getting things right, along comes a shocker of a team selection to puzzle everybody and a perfomance to go with it.
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McLeish is like Houiller was last season. Just when you thought he's finally getting things right, along comes a shocker of a team selection to puzzle everybody and a perfomance to go with it.
Last year:
Good result at Chelsea, few days later, meek surrender at home to Sunderland
This year:
Good result at Chelsea, few days later, meek surrender at home to Swansea.
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McLeish is like Houiller was last season. Just when you thought he's finally getting things right, along comes a shocker of a team selection to puzzle everybody and a perfomance to go with it.
Last year:
Good result at Chelsea, few days later, meek surrender at home to Sunderland
This year:
Good result at Chelsea, few days later, meek surrender at home to Swansea.
Exactly. After the Arsenal game at home, at the final whistle i said to my mate 'that's the standard the players have got to stick to for the rest of the season, and if we do we'll be alright'. Chelsea apart and the superb second half against QPR, we have'nt really done it that, which is why it's annoying.
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You do have to wonder, Clampy, what he's thinking when N'Zogbia and Ireland (an in form Ireland and a recently improved N'Zogbia) get left on the bench an Heskey gets played in midfield.
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I totally understood the need to restrict Man City and not let them walk all over us, but Heskey in midfield was'nt the answer. I supppose it could be argued that it worked because they only scored from a set piece but it did nothing for our attacking play at all.
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When you leave all your gifted players on the bench as on Sunday (N'Zogbia, Ireland, Bannan) and put ten men behind the ball - that's when you get your 'flop'.
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To be honest we have been hit with loads of misfortune bar the Wolves game of late. Plenty of penalty appeals turned down, loads of penatlies being given against us, mistakes at the back being punished, deflections falling towards oppostions strikers and Stephen Warnock.
If you try and defend far to deep and give the ball away cheaply then you will give away more penalties, you will see more mistakes being made and you will see more deflections falling to the opposition. That's not misfortune or bad luck.
I think giving the ball away cheaply has probably been our biggest problem this season.
Several times this season we've been knocking the ball around quite nicely the just give it away. I think we have a few players who can do it, but we also have a few who, quite frankly, just don't seem comfortable on the ball.
Swansea's first goal was typical, I know the game was only 4 minutes in, but I think it was the first touch they had.
And not having pace with the fullbacks doesn't help. I've lost count of the times Hutton, in particular, hasn't had the pace to beat his player so has cut inside and stopped because he can't use his left foot. He's had so many opportunities to have a bang he'd be in double figures now if he could have used his left. I'm not just picking on him either, there are a couple more who should practice with their weaker foot.
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The giving the ball away cheaply thing is spot on.
Sunday was a particularly good example of it. We're up against a decent passing side, and, despite having a flaky defence, have decided to be ultra defensive, with a striker in midfield - who actually spends most of his time in the penalty area playing as another defender - so what do we do? We constantly give the ball away cheaply and invite pressure on to us.
It's not by any means a new thng for us, but I thought sunday was a really stark example of how we're frequently our own worst enemy.
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I think giving the ball away cheaply has probably been our biggest problem this season.
I think it's been our problem for the last decade. It's our trademark.
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I totally understood the need to restrict Man City and not let them walk all over us, but Heskey in midfield was'nt the answer. I supppose it could be argued that it worked because they only scored from a set piece but it did nothing for our attacking play at all.
We missed having Clark and Herd in the MF to stifle Citeh. With those two available, the strategy might have worked. In their absence we might well have been a little more adventurous, but weren't.
Poor possession, not enough pressing when without the ball, fullbacks with a rash challenge / error in them every game and central defenders that sit deep, get turned and thrash the ball away aimlessly.
Significant surgery is required over the close season.
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We give the ball away so much because of 3 primary reasons.
1. Players feel under pressure, particularly at home.
2. Our mind bending lack of off the ball movement.
3. The way we are set up/ defend too deep/ shape invites pressure and restricts passing options.
All of that is part of the managers job to remedy I think.
I agree with the posts above that every relegated team has moments where hey play good stuff and probably feel aggrieved that they go down. It's a tough league you can't expect to stay in it playing well for half an hour a fortnight.
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There is a reason. Pick a good team - flip. Pick a team like on Sunday - flop. No mystery that our most "special" performances have been when we have gone shit look at that team.
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The trouble with the Heskey call is we don't know what happened with N'Zogbia and Ireland's recent alledged run-ins. If it was a disciplinary matter AM didn't have much choice
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The trouble with the Heskey call is we don't know what happened with N'Zogbia and Ireland's recent alledged run-ins. If it was a disciplinary matter AM didn't have much choice
but they both came on later
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yeah, dropped from the starting line-up possibly
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I agree with the theory that giving the ball away may be a trigger to a collapse in playing standards but that throws up another question. Do we stand off the opposition deliberately as a misguided defensive tactic or just from laziness and lack of commitment?
Apart from the over discussed aerial passing vice the other debilitating vices are not being energetic and aggressive enough in winning the ball and when we have won the ball making a telling pass. The important word in that sentence is "telling" i.e. not back to Petrov to pass to Collins to pass back to Given to launch at best a 50 50 ball upfield.
As soon as Ireland came on last Sunday he tried to set up the attack. He will try to pass the ball along the ground. Heskey in that midfield role is like chucking a brick in a cement mixer at the end of a shift. It rumbles and tumbles about being useful but it adds nothing to the function of the cement mixer.
There is something going on which causes the players confidence to be so fragile. I know if I was Barry Bannan and was constantly benched to make way for Heskey to play in the midfield it would make me very angry and disillusioned.
It is all very curious.
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I have only resurrected this thread because the Blackburn game was the clearest example yet of the schizophrenia which seems to be gripping our players.
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The plus point for me yesterday was the non appearance of Ivanhoe which meant I was able to stay in the ground the whole 94 minutes !! :)
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Very true. It defies belief that the same team came out and did totally the opposite of the first half. Why can't we play well for 90 mins? Is it lack of stamina/fitness, poor coaching/tactics or complete lack of confidence in each other and as soon as we come under pressure they all shit themselves waiting for us to concede.
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Very true. It defies belief that the same team came out and did totally the opposite of the first half. Why can't we play well for 90 mins? Is it lack of stamina/fitness, poor coaching/tactics or complete lack of confidence in each other and as soon as we come under pressure they all shit themselves waiting for us to concede.
Maybe we lack a decent leader on the pitch? Petrov gives his all (as much as he can at his age) but I don't think the players take any notice of him as a captain. I think the kids need direction and the whole team needs to keep on attacking rather than sitting back and defending because it'll always go wrong.
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Very true. It defies belief that the same team came out and did totally the opposite of the first half. Why can't we play well for 90 mins? Is it lack of stamina/fitness, poor coaching/tactics or complete lack of confidence in each other and as soon as we come under pressure they all shit themselves waiting for us to concede.
Maybe we lack a decent leader on the pitch? Petrov gives his all (as much as he can at his age) but I don't think the players take any notice of him as a captain. I think the kids need direction and the whole team needs to keep on attacking rather than sitting back and defending because it'll always go wrong.
The opposition manager changed his team around - we did not have the nous on the pitch or the managerial tactics to respond...
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As another poster astutely observed recently, you just cannot see this side putting a run together. We are capable of beating anyone on our day, if everything clicks, but no way in hell will that be carried on to the next game.
When a player on a very short term loan becomes the clear leader on the pitch, then something is wrong.
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I have only resurrected this thread because the Blackburn game was the clearest example yet of the schizophrenia which seems to be gripping our players.
I don't recall a season where our players have frozen so often. You are there watching the game and can see it slowly happening. At that point you would like to stop the game and bang all their heads together. Yesterday was bizarre. Despite all the post match hysteria, we looked good until half time. Then it happened.
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Many teams flip flop for a variety of reason. A good manager is there to stop this. He doesnt seem to stop this. Just when we have a couple of flip games he goes and picks a team that's makes you shudder.
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I could just imagine AM saying at half time that we were pushing too many players into forward areas and leaving gaps in midfield together with wanting two banks of four when they had the ball. With a number of 'confidence' players in the team, an aggressive approach to instructions at half time could have had the players going back into their shell.
Having done quite well in the 1st half when we were putting pressure on their weak areas we reverted to looking at what the opposition were doing rather them looking at what we were doing.